Who wants a Philosophy and/or Religion/Spirituality forum?

[amnesiac1984]

I myself have been getting into philosophy and spirituality recently and think it may be a better way to save the world than just politics. SO who's up for a forum devoted to it. Hopefully it would be a great place to debate philosophies and the lessons we can learn from all religions, without getting into stupid arguments about creationism v evolution or whether or not god exists.

What do y'all think?

[zimv20]

i am in favor of
1. a subcategory for religion
2. a subcategory for abortion
3. signatures that don't cause the appearance of a light/right scroll bar :-)

[amnesiac1984]

3. signatures that don't cause the appearance of a light/right scroll bar :-)


Indeed, I just noticed that, I thought that it would go to the next line but I guess not!

[Krizoitz]

I think we should have sub-forums for the following

1) People whining about the PowerBook G5
2) People who want to continue to talk about a headless iMac

That way the rest of us can stop having to hear the sameold tired arguments over and over and over.

I also agree on the sig thing.

[amnesiac1984]

i am in favor of
1. a subcategory for religion
2. a subcategory for abortion
:-)

Religion, why not philosophy, I think its more important, but kind of the same thing too? lol

A subcategory for abortion makes sense but I don't think religion/philosophy should be a subcategory of the political section, it should be alongside it. People avoid the political forum so they wouldn't find it.

[amnesiac1984]

I also agree on the sig thing.


well I've fixed it now so stop whining! :p ;)

[zimv20]

A subcategory for abortion makes sense but I don't think religion/philosophy should be a subcategory of the political section, it should be alongside it.
works for me

[amnesiac1984]

works for me

maybe we should have some sort of poll and if there is enough demand for one arn might listen. I'm quite excited I'm sure there is lots to learn from you guys, politics is really starting to do my head in. Especially as most of us agree on the big issues.

[blackfox]

I post therefore I am....













...in favor of your suggestions.


(has the potential to make this forum tame by comparison, however...)

[amnesiac1984]

(has the potential to make this forum tame by comparison, however...)

only if people are bigoted and unwilling to learn from others. We could come up with some really good rules to ensure progressive debate.

[skunk]

"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

Talking of Rules...
:cool:

[takao]

i don't know... i'm more sceptical because i would miss out a lot of nice discussions evolving here ... because i wouldn't visit those sub forums regulary ...

with my interest about religion being more about the connection of society/culture and the church through the history , i think a seperate forum might envolve into a 'ivory tower'-like discussion

i would like more spiritual and philosophical threads _here_ because i think those two things are so closly tied to society that it fits fine in here

but of course i only had a lousy B during my philosophy/psychology class ;)

[skunk]

I agree with you, Takao. Philosophy, religion and even occasionally, dare I say it, "Spirituality" all tend to enter into our discussions here at various points. What is politics, after all, other than applied philosophy? I think it's better to maintain an interdisciplinary catholicism. ;)

[Neserk]

If there is DON'T LET ME GO THERE!

[amnesiac1984]

Has anybody heard of "Living the Field" my mum's friend gave a copy of the audio from their conference, insteresting stuff.

[Sun Baked]

Seems I participated in one of these Wasteland liner threads before, would mind this one ending up the same way...
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12555&stc=1http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12555&stc=1http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12555&stc=1http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12555&stc=1
We Should Have a Religious Forum (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=23709)

There is no doubt that political and religious threads are ones that most people would rather avoid. It seems that those people who would rather avoid such threads are the ones who usually come in and create problems. This is such a problem that the freedom to post religious threads in the Community Discussion Forum has come under fire recently from the mods, who are afraid that such threads may lead to massive flaming and countless personal attacks.

I propose the creation of a Religious Discussion forum that has tolerance for all religious and non-religious points-of-view and that any mass flaming or personal attacks against someone as a result of a disagreement in this forum should lead to severe discipline.

The idea here is that if there is a separate forum for these threads then it will be easier for those who would rather avoid such threads to more easily avoid them. In other words, those who think they may not be able to post in this forum without mass flaming or personal attacks (out of disagreements) should avoid the forum altogether rather than risk getting in trouble; otherwise, they should be expected to come in and act like an adult.

Anyone agree to this?Follow the thread it got the thread starter banned. ;)

[zimv20]

Follow the thread it got the thread starter banned. ;)
interesting. i see it wasn't his first post that did it, though :-)

so arn made the argument that religion having its own forum would create more religious discussion than there is currently. can't say i disagree.

[Mr. Anderson]

What might end up happening is that this whole subforum will be the catch all for all the more touchy subjects.

Religion, abortion and any personal feelings that could offend others has always been touchy here, you all know that. You're lucky enough to have a forum just for politics and war.

Just start discussion on these topics here and have at it - but remember the rules still apply.

D

[zimv20]

What might end up happening is that this whole subforum will be the catch all for all the more touchy subjects.

which is basically what happens to the poli/war forum now.

some of us work very hard down here to class up the joint, ya know ;-)
and we've got some civilized discussion goin' on!

[Sun Baked]

interesting. i see it wasn't his first post that did it, though :-)Well, he really wanted a Religious Forum and wouldn't take no for an answer.

And I don't think it ended when the thread was closed... :rolleyes:

[blackfox]

some of us work very hard down here to class up the joint, ya know ;-)
and we've got some civilized discussion goin' on!

Well spoken, my good fellow...now did you happen to peruse that recent article about the President? ...nasty business, that...

Now you know my esteemed wife was noting the other say, what is that dear? oh yes, something about the poor...they are such a bunch of rabble-rousers, those pesky rapscallions...I believe they wanted more jobs, as it were...so I believe all the ditches must have been dug, as it were...ahaha...ahaha...

oh, do pass the truffles...

[skunk]

Well spoken, my good fellow...now did you happen to peruse that recent article about the President? ...nasty business, that...

Now you know my esteemed wife was noting the other say, what is that dear? oh yes, something about the poor...they are such a bunch of rabble-rousers, those pesky rapscallions...I believe they wanted more jobs, as it were...so I believe all the ditches must have been dug, as it were...ahaha...ahaha...

oh, do pass the truffles...
I think he's gone... :rolleyes:

[evil]

a forum for spirituality/philosphy might be good for some, but i know i wouldnt ever go in there.

[amnesiac1984]

a forum for spirituality/philosphy might be good for some, but i know i wouldnt ever go in there.

Why not? There is a place for evil everywhere, "without evil there can be no good so it must be good to be evil sometimes" Satan!

[Leo Hubbard]

Seems I participated in one of these Wasteland liner threads before, would mind this one ending up the same way...
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12555&stc=1http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12555&stc=1http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12555&stc=1http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12555&stc=1
Follow the thread it got the thread starter banned. ;)
Why was Shrek banned?

[blackfox]

Why was Shrek banned?
I cannot say for sure...there is, however, a general rule-of-thumb:

If you as a poster cause more work to the mods than any potential benefit you might give the forum, then you are gone...

It is just pragmatism, and a judgement call...notwithstanding breaking any explicit rules (which will get you banned easily)

FWIW

[Awimoway]

Although the rationale for the question might have been to benefit MR regulars, I don't think that rationale will get it done. My understanding of the political/war forum is that it's a garbage can. Just a step step above Wasteland. MR wasn't set up for political discussions, but when they happen — and they inevitably do — they need a place to be segregated so they don't infect the whole site with their invective.

So, if I've got that right, the real question isn't whether we want a religion forum but whether we need one because it's getting in the way of civil discussion in other places. If it's getting in the way of discussion in the political forum, it's already 3/4 wasteland anyway, so who cares. But if it's getting in the way of the Current Events or Community Discussion forums, then maybe we need one. But I don't think that's happening.

Once such a forum gets set up, it takes on a life of its own. Too many moths would be drawn to the light, and I don't want to see that because it would be mostly consist of people bashing each other for their beliefs (and I do think atheism/agnosticism requires faith like any other religion). It would be ugly and it's not worth it.

[zimv20]

If it's getting in the way of discussion in the political forum, it's already 3/4 wasteland anyway, so who cares. But if it's getting in the way of the Current Events or Community Discussion forums, then maybe we need one. But I don't think that's happening.

the answer is: some of us poli/war rats care. i disagree that 3/4 of what goes on in here is wasteland, there's actually a lot of useful information exchange going on.

though i'm not pushing for another forum for things like religion and abortion, the idea of it appeals to me because when those discussions happen in here, nothing much gets accomplished. though i daresay that a recent discussion on stem cells was handled much more intelligently and respectfully than would have happened in, say, Community.

[pseudobrit]

Why was Shrek banned?

IIRC, without provokation, he openly and repeatedly insulted the moderators after being told to cool down and given several warnings about his attitude.

You attack a moderator, you're dead. Simple as that. Rules to live by...

[Doctor Q]

Why was Shrek banned?When members are banned, the reason is always the same: multiple violations of forum rules or a single egregious violation. The moderators deal directly with the member involved rather than discuss it with them "in public" in the forums.

[Leo Hubbard]

When members are banned, the reason is always the same: multiple violations of forum rules or a single egregious violation. The moderators deal directly with the member involved rather than discuss it with them "in public" in the forums.
And how do you know when they are being uneven in their prosecution of their rules if its all kept secret from the general populace?
Curious how many on the right has been banned compared to how many on the left?
How would the number look if you sat down and calculated total number of those on the right banned vs total number on the right here. Compare that to the total number of those on the left banned vs total number on the left here.
Maybe we should start a quota system to insure that the numbers are even when taken into account of total population, protect the minorities by insuring percentages are installed in tallying enforcement?

OK time to go back to bed.

[blackfox]

Hate to break it to you Leo, but the poli/war forum is but an aside ( and a poorly regarded one at that ) to the main purpose of this site as a place for mac-related rumor and discussion. Community Discussion and this forum are mere afterthoughts...

Dr Q's explanation is for all the forums on this site, and political orientation is almost never a factor even considered, let alone decisive in such issues...

Have you been chatting with Sly about this?...

[mischief]

And how do you know when they are being uneven in their prosecution of their rules if its all kept secret from the general populace?
Curious how many on the right has been banned compared to how many on the left?
How would the number look if you sat down and calculated total number of those on the right banned vs total number on the right here. Compare that to the total number of those on the left banned vs total number on the left here.
Maybe we should start a quota system to insure that the numbers are even when taken into account of total population, protect the minorities by insuring percentages are installed in tallying enforcement?

OK time to go back to bed.

I'm not sure what axe you're grinding but keep in mind: This is a privately owned and operated forum in which anonimity of race, sex and creed are the default. If you choose to make any of those features about yourself or others known or otherwise an issue, it's on your own head.

In terms of having a specific Forum or Fora for Belief, Philosophy, etc.... It's possible, and would certainly syphon off some of the relevant traffic in those issues but it's all intricately mixed into Politics in general.

If we were to perhaps do a set of sticky threads instead for, say:

Belief/Spirit (Religion & Associated concepts)

Constitution/Governmental Ideology( Gun Control, Patriot Act)

"Hot" Issue du jour (Abortion, Racism, etc.)

Philosophy (Ethics and thought systems outside Religion)

Those would pretty much cover it. The drawback of course is that they'd lead to a lot of bannings and closed threads. Of course, I'm somewhat darwinnian so I think all of that's a good thing so long as the Mods can keep up with the melee. :D ;)

[mactastic]

Curious how many on the right has been banned compared to how many on the left?

Well I've seen a lot more right wing bannings than left wing ones, but that's only because the right wing ones usually have to be banned several times before they get the hint. You can't count the multiple bannings of a single person!

[Bobcat37]

My understanding of the political/war forum is that it's a garbage can. Just a step step above Wasteland. MR wasn't set up for political discussions, but when they happen — and they inevitably do — they need a place to be segregated so they don't infect the whole site with their invective.

LOL

He totally just owned us. Ouch. :cool:

[skunk]

I can't say I've noticed any undue problems: philosophy and convictions, religious or otherwise, are what drive most of the opinions here. Without them, we'd be down to comparing bodywork.

[Awimoway]

LOL

He totally just owned us. Ouch. :cool:

A funny counterpoint: Salon.com comic (http://www.salon.com/comics/boll/2004/08/05/boll/index1.html) (watching an ad required if you're not a subscriber)

[pseudobrit]

And how do you know when they are being uneven in their prosecution of their rules if its all kept secret from the general populace?
Curious how many on the right has been banned compared to how many on the left?
How would the number look if you sat down and calculated total number of those on the right banned vs total number on the right here. Compare that to the total number of those on the left banned vs total number on the left here.
Maybe we should start a quota system to insure that the numbers are even when taken into account of total population, protect the minorities by insuring percentages are installed in tallying enforcement?

We're building your crucifix right now. It'll be ready to go soon. I know you're anxious to jump onto it and become a martyr; there seems to be little else you focus on. Your main points here seem to gravitate towards:

a) left wing bias in the media
b) bias and unfairness in MacRumors' forums, especially against you
c) John Kerry bad

Your (admitted) acquaintance/friend/alter ego Slyhunter/Voltron/whatever other name he registered under had the same M.O., attitude and sources,which leads me to conclude that you and he are one and the same. You are on my ignore list, whoever you are, so I won't see your reply unless someone else quotes it.
Goodbye.

[Sun Baked]

We're building your crucifix right now. It'll be ready to go soon. I know you're anxious to jump onto it and become a martyr; there seems to be little else you focus on. Your main points here seem to gravitate towards:

b) bias and unfairness in MacRumors' forums, especially against you
If he insists on b, we can probably get him to change his mind by locking him in a room and force him to listen to this new album for the rest of his life...

http://www.kontraband.com/media/steven_segal.jpg

[Leo Hubbard]

We're building your crucifix right now. It'll be ready to go soon. I know you're anxious to jump onto it and become a martyr; there seems to be little else you focus on. Your main points here seem to gravitate towards:

a) left wing bias in the media
b) bias and unfairness in MacRumors' forums, especially against you
c) John Kerry bad

Your (admitted) acquaintance/friend/alter ego Slyhunter/Voltron/whatever other name he registered under had the same M.O., attitude and sources,which leads me to conclude that you and he are one and the same. You are on my ignore list, whoever you are, so I won't see your reply unless someone else quotes it.
Goodbye.
considering the opposition is right wing bias bad, Bush horrible, kerry is being treated so unfair. Sorry, this is the political forum and these are what you talk about in a political forum. Plus healthcare, overtaxation, etc, etc, etc.

I only bring up left wing bias in the media when folks bring up right wing bias in my sources. You use left wing bias sources I use right wing sources. Simply because someone is on the right does not make them an unreliable source.

On a side note, this forum needs more republicans so as to share the burden of all this research and crap. I can't keep up with it all and be able to compete with each and every single liberal in here. There are many more of you than there are of me.

[Mr. Anderson]

And how do you know when they are being uneven in their prosecution of their rules if its all kept secret from the general populace?
Curious how many on the right has been banned compared to how many on the left?
How would the number look if you sat down and calculated total number of those on the right banned vs total number on the right here. Compare that to the total number of those on the left banned vs total number on the left here.
Maybe we should start a quota system to insure that the numbers are even when taken into account of total population, protect the minorities by insuring percentages are installed in tallying enforcement?


Kept secret? I don't really even know why I'm humoring you with a response for this, but for clarity so it won't become an issue later things might need to be straightened out.

The mods enforce the rules and discuss what appropriate actions are required for individuals for each case.

As for the left and the right and the equal share of representation, please. This is a Mac Rumors site with a diverse community. For ease of maintenance and to just unclutter the community forum, the Political/War forum was created. We don't really need a political forum and if you want to go discuss religion/politics/etc. I'm sure you can find many more sites that cater to just that.

D

[Ugg]

On a side note, this forum needs more republicans so as to share the burden of all this research and crap. I can't keep up with it all and be able to compete with each and every single liberal in here. There are many more of you than there are of me.

No, what this forum needs is more Mac users who are interested in discussing not only politics but also MacRumors. Yep, you got it, this is a Mac site. While it is not limited to Mac users it's also not primarily used for political discussion.

Interestingly enough, in my year and a half here, the majority of the Rightists seem to be non-Mac users. Mostly I think, a direct result of a long-term forum member who decided to invite his Libertarian buddies to take part..... Anyway, you would do well to realize that we aren't here simply for politics but for numerous issues affecting Macs, Apple, Steve Jobs, the soon to be released G5 laptop :rolleyes: amongst other things. I think there are many other sites devoted to rightist propaganda and religious discussion. Arn has been nice enough and probably realistic enough to allow us this space to duke it out, oops, I meant discuss the political issues of the day. Don't take advantage of his benevolence. Remember, this is his forum and he has the right to set the limits. If they don't appeal to you or you feel they are unfair, then you know where the door is.

The majority of us here will listen to reasoned arguments but have no interested in being told that FOX, frontpagemag, Rush, etc are fair and balanced. If you're going to quote, then quote someone reliable if not, be prepared to deal with a tidalwave of biblical proportions. If you do choose to quote someone of less than stellar journalistic integrity then back it up with a couple of other sources. In other words, find someone that has independently verified the info, not just quoted the same misquote or disinformation.

You seem to be here solely for propaganda purposes, my guess is if you continue in the same vein you've started, you won't be here for long.

[pseudobrit]

You seem to be here solely for propaganda purposes, my guess is if you continue in the same vein you've started, you won't be here for long.

And remember, if you don't break the rules, you won't get banned.

The mods enforce the rules and discuss what appropriate actions are required for individuals for each case.

I have a feeling that statement fell on deaf ears.

Here's another one that'll cook his noodle, and I think any moderator can confirm:
I've reported at least as many, but probably more "liberal" members for rules violations as "conservative" members.

[zimv20]

I've reported at least as many, but probably more "liberal" members for rules violations as "conservative" members.
heck, i've reported myself several times. though i noticed in the latest version of this BB, that feature has been removed.

[pseudobrit]

heck, i've reported myself several times. though i noticed in the latest version of this BB, that feature has been removed.

So it has. No worries, all you have to do is ask! I'll be glad to report you ;)

[pseudobrit]

I only bring up left wing bias in the media when folks bring up right wing bias in my sources. You use left wing bias sources I use right wing sources. Simply because someone is on the right does not make them an unreliable source.

No, them being an unreliable source makes them an unreliable source.
Non significatif is the political leaning.

On a side note, this forum needs more republicans so as to share the burden of all this research and crap.

I spent half an hour on research for a reply to a thread (the bias in the media thread) today, and you dismissed it with one sentence of conjecture. That's ****ing insulting.

It's okay, though. I understand. Facts are hard.

I can't keep up with it all and be able to compete with each and every single liberal in here. There are many more of you than there are of me.

This ain't no "competition." If you have a solid argument based on real facts and undeniable logic, you'll be respected and welcome here. Many a right-leaning member is because they make every attempt to be as thorough, fair and rational as they can.
Your argument will be picked apart. Most are.
If your arguments are based on ************ sources, and you insist on repeating them time and again after they've been disproven, or you start spamming threads with off-topic junk from fringe internet sites, you won't get respect, and eventually you won't be welcome, because quite frankly, irrational ************ and spam don't endear us to anyone.

If it is solid, it will survive the test. If not, you need to re-examine your facts and/or logic.

[Leo Hubbard]

No, them being an unreliable source makes them an unreliable source.

Talk about circular logic.

[Leo Hubbard]

I spent half an hour on research for a reply to a thread (the bias in the media thread) today, and you dismissed it with one sentence of conjecture. That's ****ing insulting.


I know the feeling.

[amnesiac1984]

:eek: what happened to my nice thread about the potential for philosophical chatter?


Anyone read any good philosophy lately? I keep meaning to read the existentialists soon but I don't know where to start and my knowledge of philosophers is limited. Perhaps we should steer this thread toward a recommended reading material and forget about all this trolling.

[mouchoir]

I think it (religion forum) is a great idea in theory, but could be the cause of a lot of upsets.

I am happy to tread all over someone's political views, but am very wary of talking on peoples faiths, as these are very personal things.

I think philosophy would be great, but then it would be hard to seperate from religion... what the hey, let's do it.

[mischief]

Some philosophically minded individuals would argue that, in such a meta-reality as this one: If we were to ALL Ignore Leo he would cease to exist in this reality. ;) :D

Seeing as how he's adept at ignoring challenges to respond with logic I can only assume he's an anomaly.... an intruder from a dimension with some other physics set than ours.... one that does not involve causality or predictable mathematical outcomes....

[Leo Hubbard]

Some philosophically minded individuals would argue that, in such a meta-reality as this one: If we were to ALL Ignore Leo he would cease to exist in this reality. ;) :D

Seeing as how he's adept at ignoring challenges to respond with logic I can only assume he's an anomaly.... an intruder from a dimension with some other physics set than ours.... one that does not involve causality or predictable mathematical outcomes....
And you call me a troll.

[amnesiac1984]

And you call me a troll.
trolls might come from other dimensions, whose to say? :p

[mischief]

And you call me a troll.

Then do some digging.

I'm actually being very nice to you dude. I've done serious mental harm to others who have engaged in your brand of Zealotry in the past. Since Arn tightened up the Fora I've toned it down several notches.

I doubt you'd see the irony in a Pie Fight. I'm choosing to use the very lightest of my arsenal.... this is the hotfoot.... I DO carry a flamethrower.

I suggest you begin actually discussing things more rationally, perhaps asking questions rather than soap-boxing an extreme view. I'll get exponentially more civil if you do and you may actually enjoy debating me if you tone it down. I can devil's advocate for most positions and if you research the early debates between myself and some others over 9/11 you'll see that debates can be quite civil here if the Zealotry is held in check.

[amnesiac1984]

I think it (religion forum) is a great idea in theory, but could be the cause of a lot of upsets.

I am happy to tread all over someone's political views, but am very wary of talking on peoples faiths, as these are very personal things.

I think philosophy would be great, but then it would be hard to seperate from religion... what the hey, let's do it.

You don't have to walk all over somebody's views to have a discussion about religion. I mean with a subject like religion there's not really a right answer so long as everybody remembers that you can't be offended by someones arguments, because they are just opinions and not facts. If somebody is truly faithful then they should be able to take any knocks that come its way anyway.

Now, maybe we should stop talking about talking about religion and actually talk about religion.

in the following, anything stated as fact is just my opinion (although I believe it to be fact (kind of)) so take it how you wish.

My personal belief is that yes there is a god, and god basically IS everything, IT is not a person but IT is a force but also a medium. It is contained in us and all matter and energy is it. It is the very fabric of the universe. Our consciousness is part of it and it extends throughout the universe at the quantum level, hence WE ARE ONE and the universe is not something seperate from yourself.

All religions are varying interpretations of this force, some have been taken too literally IMHO, while others miss the point and others are pretty close. I personally believe the bible is a great book of lessons and storys that teach us lessons of great value but it also encourages us to think for ourselves and to be progressive, not to take it as rule of law, because no rule of law could continue to be relevant over such a large amount of time and apply to every person.

My theory, Jesus was great, I guess on that most of us can agree. He may well not have been the son of God anymore than we all are but he may have had something special about him and was able to be more at one with the universe than others and perhaps his miracles were a result of this. (If you believe in energy fields and the way we gain and lose energy, jesus might well have been very good at gathering energy so he could walk on water).

I could go on but I don't want to right now. The above is my theories and beliefs, but these are open to change as I go down my path as they have changed numerous times already.

[skunk]

I was wondering when you were going to get down and get dirty... ;)

[Leo Hubbard]

Death in a grave, your body slowly decomposing, consciencness still present albeit on slow mode. Slowly you feel your sins stripped away, it doesn't bother you because you know that is Jesus cleaning your soul preparing you for heaven. All your sins, greed, jealously, hatred, pride is erased from your soul taking the memories with it, until there is nothing left but an amoeba for you take nothing from this world with you. So you spend all of eternity in a unending euphoria with no thought process other than unending ecstasy.

Death in a grave, your body slowly decomposing, consciencness still present, still unable to spell consciencness, albeit on slow mode. Slowly you feel your life being stolen. Memories of your sons first home run, your first business, the time spent in the hospital awaiting your sons birth. All being stolen, you try to hold on to them but you have no arms to grasp them with. Desperatly through force of will you try to hold on to those things that make you who you are. Not just the good which is wonderful to remember but the bad that shaped you and tested your character. You manage to save most of it and you enter a dark realm on the side of the light. The light won't let you in you are too unclean, so now you have to live all eternity in the dark. It is fun at first learning how to zip around at the speed of thought. With a bit of energy you can see what is going on, on Earth, you just can't actually make anything happen or change anything all you can do is observe. You are not alone there are many others just like you. As interesting as it is, everything gets old when you have eternity to look forward to. Earth stops being interesting as everything you know, love, and understand slowly passes away through time as you are still trapped in its gripped moving forward slowly indeffinitely. unenduring boredom with no break, no sex, not alchohol, no physical comforts whatsoever since you have no nervous system. Soon you've seen it all and done nothing for there is nothing you can do yet time keeps ponderously marching on.

More important than what you think hell is, what does God think hell is? Problem with life and perhaps afterlife with finding the right answer is maybe all answers are wrong?

[amnesiac1984]

the afterlife is just our consiousness continuing on like the light from dead stars. One day soon, hopefully, we'll be able to measure this. The same way we measure light.

[skunk]

Hey, you two, if we're going to continue talking about consciousness, can we at least spell it right? :D :rolleyes:

[amnesiac1984]

Hey, you two, if we're going to continue talking about consciousness, can we at least spell it right? :D :rolleyes:
nope ;)

[skunk]

nope ;)
I thought not... :)

[amnesiac1984]

I thought not... :)
only because words are inert and language is a barrier to expressing yourself truly. :D

(and i've started using camino which doesn't have a spell check)