Looking ahead on the 2010 iMac

[Eidorian]

Surprisingly enough we did get a desktop processor based iMac this time around. The 3.06 GHz Core 2 Duo E7600 shows up as the stock processor for the 21.5" line and base 27" model. There's also the option to upgrade to the 3.33 GHz Core 2 Duo E8600 with 6 MB of L2 cache as well.

The E8600 upgrade option has very marginal benefits in my opinion compared to a 65W Core 2 Quad S, the current P55 platform, or the soon to be H57 platform for Nehalem/Westemere.

For all intents and purposes LGA 775 is a dead socket walking. Core 2 Quad was already made irrelevant with the release of Bloomfield back in November of 2008. In addition there is Lynnfield from September 2009 for mainstream, cooler Nehalem with optimized Turbo Boost. Clarkdale comes out in January 2010 with 2 core, 4 thread Westmere desktop processors to replace the $100-300 range of highly clocked Core 2 Duo processors that remain.

There are still faint glimmers left though. The 65W Core 2 Quad S, while superseded by Lynnfield and Clarkdale, is a cool drop-in processor for the 21.5" models that won't require any sort of redesign.

There's also one more processor that keeps turning up under the Core 2 Duo line. I made mention of the 3.5 GHz 65W; 6 MB of L2 cache E8700 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=7468555#post7468555) some time ago. It was launched earlier this year (http://www.techpowerup.com/83135/Intel_Launches_Core_2_Duo_E8700.html) but I haven't heard of anyone managing to get one until now (http://en.expreview.com/2009/11/27/intel-core-2-duo-e8700-leaked-accidently.html).

The E8700 should drop its E8600 predecessor down in price from its current US$266 per 1,000. While it might not be a flashy new Clarkdale, the Core 2 platform does need to be taken into account. nVidia doesn't offer any IGP support for Nehalem/Westmere platforms.

In conclusion, I suspect you're going to see Core 2 hang around for another revision with the E8600, E8700, and a possible 65W Core 2 Quad option. Alongside that you'll see a 32 shader ION2 as the platform controller. Lynnfield prices are expected to go down with the release of the Bloomfield Core i7 930 in Q1 2010 (http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/10/28/core-i7-930-arriving-q1-2010/1). The Core i5 750 is more than likely going to trickle down to the current US$1,699 base 27" iMac in the next revision.

[stonemann]

Thanks for that analysis. So for those of us waiting for the next revision of 21.5 inch machines we're unlikely to see a quad-core option but a new dual-core processor? How significant are the performance benefits likely to be with the new dual-cores? There's a huge leap in benchmark stats from a c2d 3.06 to an i5 for example, but only a modest gain from 3.06 to 3.33 despite the larger cache and faster speed (still only eight per cent or so). And there's a big performance gap between the current top-of-the-range 3.33 ghz processor and an i5. For those of us who prefer the form factor of the 21.5" iMacs, but would like the performance of a quad-core, this is a little dispiriting.

[shanmugam]

I really hope the next revision of iMac 21.5" is dual core i5

*same socket as 27"
*32nm
*less heat
*faster than Core 2 Duo (hopefully)

hi eidorian, how good is the 4670 256MB graphic card? i use photoshop a lot and video editing once in a while, not much gaming.

[Eidorian]

Thanks for that analysis. So for those of us waiting for the next revision of 21.5 inch machines we're unlikely to see a quad-core option but a new dual-core processor?The base iMac is more than likely going to stick with a dual core to upsell you to the higher end models. The 21.5" iMac is already handling a 65W E7600 and the warmer E8600.

How significant are the performance benefits likely to be with the new dual-cores? There's a huge leap in benchmark stats from a c2d 3.06 to an i5 for example, but only a modest gain from 3.06 to 3.33 despite the larger cache and faster speed (still only eight per cent or so). And there's a big performance gap between the current top-of-the-range 3.33 ghz processor and an i5. For those of us who prefer the form factor of the 21.5" iMacs, but would like the performance of a quad-core, this is a little dispiriting.Modest gains from a faster Core 2 Duo once more. The Core 2 Quad Q8400S offers a reasonably high base clock and more cores at a low price. That's entirely up to Apple though. I find it strange to use LGA 775 for just one iMac revision only to redesign and replace the logicboards after a few months.

The 21.5" iMacs can standardize on LGA 775/ION2 and the 27" models LGA 1156/P55.

I really hope the next revision of iMac 21.5" is dual core i5

*same socket as 27"
*32nm
*less heat
*faster than Core 2 Duo (hopefully)Clarkdale is going to be faster than Core 2 with high ~3.0 GHz base clocks, Hyperthreading, and Turbo Boost. It also means that Apple is going to either use the Graphics Media Accelerator HD or go all out with dedicated graphics since the 9400M or ION2 can not be used.

hi eidorian, how good is the 4670 256MB graphic card? i use photoshop a lot and video editing once in a while, not much gaming.You're fine with the Mobility HD 4670 for Photoshop. It's a faster card than the 9600M GT for gaming as well. You're going to be more interested in the processor, RAM, and disk I/O speed side of things.

[shanmugam]

You're fine with the Mobility HD 4670 for Photoshop. It's a faster card than the 9600M GT for gaming as well. You're going to be more interested in the processor, RAM, and disk I/O speed side of things.

thanks for the info :)

[OldCorpse]

But what is the upgrade path for the 27" i7 2.8? I mean they could bump the clock speed somewhat, but would they go to P55? I don't know, to me the current i7 is the real leap compared to the last iMac revisions, and for the next revision, at least near term, I'm not excited by bumping up the clock a bit or even the P55. Is there anything on the Intel roadmap 2010/2011 that could be wrenched into the 27" iMac and be a big leap over the current i7 without exploding the thermal envelope? I didn't see anything, but maybe I missed it. Regardless, I'm happy with the current i7 and I'm gonna buy me one come January... I have a feeling it'll be reasonably futureproof at least for a couple of years.

[300D]

There are still faint glimmers left though. The 65W Core 2 Quad S, while superseded by Lynnfield and Clarkdale, is a cool drop-in processor for the 21.5" models that won't require any sort of redesign.
Too bad that doesn't actually work.

But what is the upgrade path for the 27" i7 2.8? I mean they could bump the clock speed somewhat
They already did. The 2.93ghz i7 is a drop in replacement if you feel like spending $1000 for ~15% difference.

[Eidorian]

Too bad that doesn't actually work.What do you mean?

[300D]

What do you mean?

Nobody has gotten one to work. The one so far that tried couldn't get it to boot.

[Eidorian]

Nobody has gotten one to work. The one so far that tried couldn't get it to boot.I am talking about Apple providing it and not a user upgrade.

[300D]

I am talking about Apple providing it

They won't. The core2 series is very near EOL so its doubtful they will use anything but an i3 or low-end i5 in the low spec iMac from the next update on. Apple does not sell CPU upgrades either.
The mini will probably keep the c2d for a while, up to the 3.06 or 3.32, but I doubt it will see a quad for another year at the least.

[Eidorian]

Why did they design a LGA 775 board to only use for one revision?

[shanmugam]

Why did they design a LGA 775 board to only use for one revision?

because the Dual Core i5 are getting released Jan 2010 (which i know you know ;) ) but we mac users wanted the Christmas on October.

I think in this case apple no choice than releasing a stop gap product (in 21.5" internals) and going to retain 3.06Ghz i5 dual cores for next revision, unless your techie no one going to notice

Also Dual Core i5 in large quantities may not be available immediately after Jan 2010 launch? May/June time period Intel should those babies in big inventory which is good for iMac.

remember we still have inventory shortage in iMac i5 model ( even though it looks like ATI 4850 is the culprit)

[shanmugam]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_future_Intel_microprocessors#Core_i3

they might start with Core i3 3.06Ghz or

spend some $$$ more and get to Core i5 3.2Ghz

i think it will be better for apple to have same logicboard and design for both 21.5" and 27" (when intel have big inventories of i3/i5 dual cores)

and another thing is the whole mess with integrated graphics.

in my case also, if there is a graphic card (basic one) i might went with $1199 basic config :rolleyes:

[Hellhammer]

I agree with you. Apple don't design something to be used only in one revision.

Positive thing about this is that Core 2 Duos and Quads will be even cheaper in future so we might see 999$ iMac :cool:

[Eidorian]

Here's Clarkdale and Arrandale pricing if anyone is interested.

[MacHamster68]

the LGA 775 socket offers a good base as once the core duo and dual core and core 2 duo ..cant keep them apart , never could ,even when using them in pc`s

the point comes when i will be able to buy a base iMac 21.5" i can buy one with blown processor ,as i just can pop in my old prescott pentium 4 which has socket LGA775 i have lying around here somewhere .. so i may keep that old processor in the shelf :rolleyes:

[Sun Baked]

I agree with you. Apple don't design something to be used only in one revision.

Positive thing about this is that Core 2 Duos and Quads will be even cheaper in future so we might see 999$ iMac :cool:

Course there is the 1-2 month wonders, the all-new single CPU PowerMac G5 and a Laptop revision, both of which got a lot of press and were gone quickly.

[shanmugam]

Here's Clarkdale and Arrandale pricing if anyone is interested.

Based on the price alone
Current
3.06Ghz -E7600 - $133 - BTO - E 8600 3.33Ghz - $266

Future
3.06Ghz - Core i3 530 - $143 - BTO - Core i5 670 - 3.46Ghz - $284

Point to note
#Price difference of $10 and $12 for Integrated graphics
#Core i3 no turbo mode
#Core i3 is like Pentium and Celeron, i wonder apple wants to go that far or get i5 650 and lose some margin
#Intel integrated graphics performance
#Core i5 650, 660, 661 ($176, $196, $196) are very close to the price point core i5 750 quad core $196

[TennisandMusic]

But what is the upgrade path for the 27" i7 2.8? I mean they could bump the clock speed somewhat, but would they go to P55? I don't know, to me the current i7 is the real leap compared to the last iMac revisions, and for the next revision, at least near term, I'm not excited by bumping up the clock a bit or even the P55. Is there anything on the Intel roadmap 2010/2011 that could be wrenched into the 27" iMac and be a big leap over the current i7 without exploding the thermal envelope? I didn't see anything, but maybe I missed it. Regardless, I'm happy with the current i7 and I'm gonna buy me one come January... I have a feeling it'll be reasonably futureproof at least for a couple of years.

Uh...what? The P55 is a chipset, and it is what is already being used with the i7's/i5's. If you use a lynnfield chip, you use P55.

[Eidorian]

But what is the upgrade path for the 27" i7 2.8? I mean they could bump the clock speed somewhat, but would they go to P55? I don't know, to me the current i7 is the real leap compared to the last iMac revisions, and for the next revision, at least near term, I'm not excited by bumping up the clock a bit or even the P55. Is there anything on the Intel roadmap 2010/2011 that could be wrenched into the 27" iMac and be a big leap over the current i7 without exploding the thermal envelope? I didn't see anything, but maybe I missed it. Regardless, I'm happy with the current i7 and I'm gonna buy me one come January... I have a feeling it'll be reasonably futureproof at least for a couple of years.The Core i7 870 is the only faster Lynnfield part. There doesn't seem to be any sort of replacement and the only rumor that I've heard of is a 32nm optical shrink of Lynnfield with no changes otherwise.

[iamthedudeman]

Surprisingly enough we did get a desktop processor based iMac this time around. The 3.06 GHz Core 2 Duo E7600 shows up as the stock processor for the 21.5" line and base 27" model. There's also the option to upgrade to the 3.33 GHz Core 2 Duo E8600 with 6 MB of L2 cache as well.

The E8600 upgrade option has very marginal benefits in my opinion compared to a 65W Core 2 Quad S, the current P55 platform, or the soon to be H57 platform for Nehalem/Westemere.

For all intents and purposes LGA 775 is a dead socket walking. Core 2 Quad was already made irrelevant with the release of Bloomfield back in November of 2008. In addition there is Lynnfield from September 2009 for mainstream, cooler Nehalem with optimized Turbo Boost. Clarkdale comes out in January 2010 with 2 core, 4 thread Westmere desktop processors to replace the $100-300 range of highly clocked Core 2 Duo processors that remain.

There are still faint glimmers left though. The 65W Core 2 Quad S, while superseded by Lynnfield and Clarkdale, is a cool drop-in processor for the 21.5" models that won't require any sort of redesign.

There's also one more processor that keeps turning up under the Core 2 Duo line. I made mention of the 3.5 GHz 65W; 6 MB of L2 cache E8700 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=7468555#post7468555) some time ago. It was launched earlier this year (http://www.techpowerup.com/83135/Intel_Launches_Core_2_Duo_E8700.html) but I haven't heard of anyone managing to get one until now (http://en.expreview.com/2009/11/27/intel-core-2-duo-e8700-leaked-accidently.html).

The E8700 should drop its E8600 predecessor down in price from its current US$266 per 1,000. While it might not be a flashy new Clarkdale, the Core 2 platform does need to be taken into account. nVidia doesn't offer any IGP support for Nehalem/Westmere platforms.

In conclusion, I suspect you're going to see Core 2 hang around for another revision with the E8600, E8700, and a possible 65W Core 2 Quad option. Alongside that you'll see a 32 shader ION2 as the platform controller. Lynnfield prices are expected to go down with the release of the Bloomfield Core i7 930 in Q1 2010 (http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/10/28/core-i7-930-arriving-q1-2010/1). The Core i5 750 is more than likely going to trickle down to the current US$1,699 base 27" iMac in the next revision.

I think you are spot on 110%. The current bundled IGP for the new Intel processors means that Apple has to go with another option in the 21.5 imacs. Apple will bide their time and wait it out espicially after the FDC is getting involved.

I am betting on the new 65W Core 2 Quad S in the 21.5's with Ion 2. :)

[Fiete5401]

I am betting on the new 65W Core 2 Quad S in the 21.5's with Ion 2. :)

The Q9550S and/or Q9505S look delicious.

[iamthedudeman]

The Q9550S and/or Q9505S look delicious.

Yes they do. But I think 65W may be a bit much. Will probably go with this one here. For marketing purposes this in the imac 21.5 will sell better than any dual core i3 or i5 to the masses. Can you say Quad core for the entire imac line.

http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB5G

[Fiete5401]

Yes they do. But I think 65W may be a bit much. Will probably go with this one here. For marketing purposes this in the imac 21.5 will sell better than any dual core i3 or i5 to the masses. Can you say Quad core for the entire imac line.

Dude, I'm really trying to but my lips and tongue simply won't do it. ;)
Actually the current processors E7600 and E8600 do have a 65W TDP. So we already have the socket and the cooling systems in the current lineup. Now we need our favorite fruit-company to jump into the quad game with both feet!

[Eidorian]

Now we need our favorite fruit-company to jump into the quad game with both feet!We've been waiting since 2006. The quad core iMac took that long. All the models should be quad core right now. The problem already exists on the notebook side.

[iamthedudeman]

Dude, I'm really trying to but my lips and tongue simply won't do it. ;)
Actually the current processors E7600 and E8600 do have a 65W TDP. So we already have the socket and the cooling systems in the current lineup. Now we need our favorite fruit-company to jump into the quad game with both feet!

I know. But doesn't Apple usually go with the lowest wattage vs power ratio? I hope they go with either. The Duo line is rather dated.

[shanmugam]

Based on the price alone
Current
3.06Ghz -E7600 - $133 - BTO - E 8600 3.33Ghz - $266

Future
3.06Ghz - Core i3 530 - $143 - BTO - Core i5 670 - 3.46Ghz - $284

Point to note
#Price difference of $10 and $12 for Integrated graphics
#Core i3 no turbo mode
#Core i3 is like Pentium and Celeron, i wonder apple wants to go that far or get i5 650 and lose some margin
#Intel integrated graphics performance
#Core i5 650, 660, 661 ($176, $196, $196) are very close to the price point core i5 750 quad core $196

are these Core i3/i5 Clarkdale is also released on 7th of Jan?

we really need a Mid 2010 iMac thread.

Considering how apple wants to differentiate the product we might not see the quad cores in 21.5" iMac at all. Dual cores on the 21.5" and quad cores on the 27".

[Eidorian]

are these Core i3/i5 Clarkdale is also released on 7th of Jan?

we really need a Mid 2010 iMac thread.

Considering how apple wants to differentiate the product we might not see the quad cores in 21.5" iMac at all. Dual cores on the 21.5" and quad cores on the 27".The desktop Clarkdale processors are also being launched on January 7th 2010.

[shanmugam]

The desktop Clarkdale processors are also being launched on January 7th 2010.

Ok thanks, It might take a while for apple to refresh the 21.5" iMacs - anytime between April to June, i am guessing mostly on WWDC 2010.

Eidorian, Thanks i can see the thread title changed.

I am pretty happy with 3.06Ghz Core 2 duo as it is, Core i5 dual core or Quad Core will really rock the 21.5" iMac.

[shanmugam]

iMac 21.5"

3.06Ghz Core i3 530
1920x1080
1 TB HDD
4 GB RAM
Graphics ???
$1199

3.06Ghz Core i3 530
1920x1080
1.5 TB or 2TB HDD
4GB RAM
ATI 5XXX 256MB
$1499 (may be $1399?)

is there a chance 21.5" goes to 23"/24" Wide screen?

on the 27" iMac $1699 will see the i5 - 750 quad core. $1999 model will see i7 - 860 quad core and other usual HDD upgrade and Graphic upgrade.

[Fiete5401]

The desktop Clarkdale processors are also being launched on January 7th 2010.

When ever you need it you can't find it:
Does anybody have a link or plain numbers on how much faster an i3 is compared to a C2D at the same clockspeed?

[iamthedudeman]

are these Core i3/i5 Clarkdale is also released on 7th of Jan?

we really need a Mid 2010 iMac thread.

Considering how apple wants to differentiate the product we might not see the quad cores in 21.5" iMac at all. Dual cores on the 21.5" and quad cores on the 27".

Well the rumor is that Apple rejected the Arrandale's. The Clarkdale also has intergrated IGP with the ability for a discreet GPU.

Until Intel and Apple and Nvidia work things out, I dont' see a discreet option with a i5 intel chip anytime soon. The Quad core is the same wattage as the now Core 2 Duo and they would not have to change much of anything but the chip and they can still add a updated Nvidia IGP. Everyone seems to forget about open CL. It's not like Apple is just going to abandon it. No way,no how.

Here is my prediction on the base.

45W or 65W Quad core Core 2
750GB HD
Ion 2

In about six weeks time.

Now check back here in six weeks.

[shanmugam]

word on the street is Core i5 Dual cores will easily beat Quad 2 Quads, so ideal upgrade for 21.5" dual core i3/i5.

if you go higher frequency on Core 2 Quad it will more expensive than Core i5 750 ($196).

I do not think apple wants to stick to the LGA 775 for long time (otherwise we - customers will be poor stuck with old technology)

my guess 3.06Ghz LGA 775 is a stop gap for 6 months in 21.5" and apple did not wanted to miss the holiday sales (Intel releases the dual core i5s Jan 7th 2010).

[iamthedudeman]

word on the street is Core i5 Dual cores will easily beat Quad 2 Quads, so ideal upgrade for 21.5" dual core i3/i5.

if you go higher frequency on Core 2 Quad it will more expensive than Core i5 750 ($196).

I do not think apple wants to stick to the LGA 775 for long time (otherwise we - customers will be poor stuck with old technology)

my guess 3.06Ghz LGA 775 is a stop gap for 6 months in 21.5" and apple did not wanted to miss the holiday sales (Intel releases the dual core i5s Jan 7th 2010).

Well, the quad-core defiantly compete with the dual core i5's and then some. We are talking 4 cores as opposed to two. So the benefits are there.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Quad+Q9100+@+2.26GHz

But what about Apple and there rejection of Intel's IGP? Are they just going to go with a discreet option only across the whole line. And what about Open CL. We will see in about 4 to 10 weeks.

The reason for the pre-mature release of he imacs was due to the release of Windows 7.

When the i5's and i7's with the intergrated IGP's and HP, Dell, Lenovo scoop them up Apple will not sit idle while their competition releases new machines with new processors while the imac line goes with nothing new. They will respond.

I hope your right, but I don't want a intel IGP any where on my machine. Even if there is a discreet GPU or not. And I don't think Apple does either.

[Pachang]

Can anyone more familiar with apple and the GPU scene tell me what kind of GPU would we see in new high-end iMacs next year?
I want to get a 27" i7 but the weakness of the mobile 4850 is the only thing holding me back.

I thought with openCL and all they would at least put a decent GPU in it.

WWDC is probs from June 28th to July 2nd as we found out today. Would they wait till then to bring new iMacs out?

All I want is a mac that can play games like COD6 etc with close to full specs at a decent to good frame rate. :(

[iamthedudeman]

Can anyone more familiar with apple and the GPU scene tell me what kind of GPU would we see in new high-end iMacs next year?
I want to get a 27" i7 but the weakness of the mobile 4850 is the only thing holding me back.

I thought with openCL and all they would at least put a decent GPU in it.

WWDC is probs from June 28th to July 2nd as we found out today. Would they wait till then to bring new iMacs out?

All I want is a mac that can play games like COD6 etc with close to full specs at a decent to good frame rate. :(


Probably the ion 2 in the base and the 5 series cards in the rest. The 4850 is actually a good card and can play COD6, most likely. The new macs will be out probably around march and you will see either a speed bump, with newer processors and newer GPU's.

[spcdust]

....The new macs will be out probably around march and you will see either a speed bump, with newer processors and newer GPU's.

I reckon March may be a tad optimistic, I would think more likely May / June but anything is possible

[shanmugam]

Well, the quad-core defiantly compete with the dual core i5's and then some. We are talking 4 cores as opposed to two. So the benefits are there.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Quad+Q9100+@+2.26GHz


i think you are mixing the mobile and desktop Core 2 Quads.

Right now apple uses desktop CPU and the dual core i3/i5s i am talking are desktop CPUs

[iamthedudeman]

i think you are mixing the mobile and desktop Core 2 Quads.

Right now apple uses desktop CPU and the dual core i3/i5s i am talking are desktop CPUs

I just gave that processor for reference. All the 9000 series intel quads are 45W to 65W or less. So they could put a desktop quad in there. The 9100 quad even though it is a mobile processor competes quite well with the i5's. I gave the a reference to the 9100 since it is Intel's lowest performing quad in 45nM. The desktop versions perform better and are only 45W to 65W.

Intel would have to offer the Quads for the same price as the i5's or i7's for this to happen. But the performance is there.

http://www.intel.com/en_uk/consumer/rating-partner.htm?iid=ENGSHORT+rating-partner&

[iamthedudeman]

I reckon March may be a tad optimistic, I would think more likely May / June but anything is possible


HP,Dell,Lenovo, Acer are all coming out with new machines with the new i7's and i5's and the new Core 2 9000 Quads sometime between early Jan and March.

I don't see apple even in the lower end 21.5 Mac which is there best selling Mac going for that long without either a i5 or a low wattage Quad. The 27's already have them. Apple's main competition do not sell a computer that even competes with the 27's maybe the HP 25's Touch Smart's all in ones.

They are all gunning for the imac that is there best selling model which is the 21.5 base.

The market dictates what they do and do not do. Not Apple. Window's 7 came out, what does Apple do they release the new Imacs ahead of time a week from the Window's 7 launch date.

We saw a refresh last March and later in October of the same year with nothing being new released in March like Window's 7 or new Intel processors and Oct saw the Release of Window's 7. This is a six month time frame. March will be a five to six month time frame from Oct.

Jan we will see the release of the New Intel processor's on Jan 7. Apple will hopefully act on it accordingly.

[Pachang]

Probably the ion 2 in the base and the 5 series cards in the rest. The 4850 is actually a good card and can play COD6, most likely. The new macs will be out probably around march and you will see either a speed bump, with newer processors and newer GPU's.

It can play it. But not at a resolution that does the beautiful 27" panel justice. Isn't the ion a mobile gpu for netbooks and stuff?

[shanmugam]

I just gave that processor for reference.

ok, i thought so, we are in the same page then.

price list for reference

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_future_Intel_microprocessors#Core_i3

Core i3/i5 are in similar price range of E7600/E8600

[Thunderbird]

The Q9550S and/or Q9505S look delicious.

I have the Q9550S in another pc. It's a very nice cpu and runs quite cool. It would be nice to see in an iMac.

So, is 65w the TDP limit for an iMac then? (at least as is currently designed)

[Fiete5401]

I have the Q9550S in another pc. It's a very nice cpu and runs quite cool. It would be nice to see in an iMac.

So, is 65w the TDP limit for an iMac then? (at least as is currently designed)

ATM it seems to be the limit in the current 21.5-iMac as the E7600 and E8600 have a 65W design.
I still doubt that Apple will use these processors in the next iMac revision. They are too "geeky", too high-end for a Mac.
But it would still be nice! ;)

[raysfan81]

Positive thing about this is that Core 2 Duos and Quads will be even cheaper in future


True, maybe I'll be able to pick up a Q9550 for ~$150! That'll be a welcome upgrade from the Q8200

[Eidorian]

Positive thing about this is that Core 2 Duos and Quads will be even cheaper in future so we might see 999$ iMac :cool:

True, maybe I'll be able to pick up a Q9550 for ~$150! That'll be a welcome upgrade from the Q8200I really think you should look at the price of an E8400 last year and the price today.

The Core 2 parts are going to be EOL for Lynnfield and Clarkdale. Celeron and Pentium Dual Core are the remaining new Core 2 parts for 2010. Then again Apple has ended up with EOL parts before.

[shanmugam]

i think price is not a real issue here

At $196 i5-750 Quad Core CPU possible at $1499 machine if not at $1199 machine.

two factors deciding what goes on 21.5"

Heat and thermal problems
apple differentiation between products


and another note prices from intel differs on common upgrade cycle CPUs versus EOLed CPUs. Intel is first one wants to see EOLed CPUs go away and promote the new one. They will be happy to see customers to pickup i5/i7s than a Core 2 Quads.

[justit]

You're fine with the Mobility HD 4670 for Photoshop. It's a faster card than the 9600M GT for gaming as well. You're going to be more interested in the processor, RAM, and disk I/O speed side of things.

Open more than 7 files in PS and you'll get an OpenCL limit message. The 256MB of video ram just doesn't cut it.

[Eidorian]

Open more than 7 files in PS and you'll get an OpenCL limit message. The 256MB of video ram just doesn't cut it.There's an OpenCL limit message now? I'd sure love to see it. This is hilarious.

[justit]

There's an OpenCL limit message now? I'd sure love to see it. This is hilarious.

Yes Adobe's not playing nice. No 64Bit and now this.

http://grab.by/1nO9

These are small 4K files on my 13", when I use a 24" it's down to a 7 file limit. Cards with 512MB+ don't seem to have this limit.

[SilenceBe]

What about the GPU where the newer generation of ATI mobile cards seem to have a lower TDP ?

[iamthedudeman]

i think price is not a real issue here

At $196 i5-750 Quad Core CPU possible at $1499 machine if not at $1199 machine.

two factors deciding what goes on 21.5"

Heat and thermal problems
apple differentiation between products


and another note prices from intel differs on common upgrade cycle CPUs versus EOLed CPUs. Intel is first one wants to see EOLed CPUs go away and promote the new one. They will be happy to see customers to pickup i5/i7s than a Core 2 Quads.

With a company as big as Apple and intel, I agree with you price will probably not be a issue. Heat and thermal issues in the new processors are not really a issue since the current Core 2 Duo's give off more heat than the some of the new Quads and the i5 and i7's.

They can easily go Quad for the entire lineup as they went with
Core 2 duo for most of the Aluminum imac's lifespan.

The main issue is defiantly the integrated IGP and it being on the processor die. Apple doesn't want a integrated IGP from intel. And Intel is forcing it upon manufactures. Snow Leopard is built around Open CL. Unless Intel gives Apple a special IGP less Arrandale or Clarksdale they are not going to use those chips unless they use a discreet card in the entire lineup. They are not going to abandon Open CL regardless of any processor offering from Intel.

The intergrated IGP in the new i5's and i7's will be the determining factor in their lineup going forward.
NVIDIA isn't going anywhere. Since Apple is doing business with NVIDIA and using their IGP and not Intels's someone has to budge.

http://www.slashgear.com/nvidia-mcp89-and-mcp99-ion-successors-headed-to-apple-in-q1-2010-1452360/
http://www.slashgear.com/apple-reject-arrandale-request-non-gpu-mobile-core-i5-i7-chips-0765327/

[Eidorian]

Yes Adobe's not playing nice. No 64Bit and now this.

These are small 4K files on my 13", when I use a 24" it's down to a 7 file limit. Cards with 512MB+ don't seem to have this limit.Do you have the same problem on your 13"? It also says OpenGL.

[shanmugam]

What about the GPU where the newer generation of ATI mobile cards seem to have a lower TDP ?

new 5XXX should have better TDP since it moves to 40nm, we do not know yet how much the thermal specs are better.

[justit]

Do you have the same problem on your 13"? It also says OpenGL.

Both MBP and Mac Pro, I'd like to know if this is an artificial ceiling from Adobe or if there is a failure in OSX not being able to swap system RAM for GPU RAM.

[ArrowSmith]

With a company as big as Apple and intel, I agree with you price will probably not be a issue. Heat and thermal issues in the new processors are not really a issue since the current Core 2 Duo's give off more heat than the some of the new Quads and the i5 and i7's.

They can easily go Quad for the entire lineup as they went with
Core 2 duo for most of the Aluminum imac's lifespan.

The main issue is defiantly the integrated IGP and it being on the processor die. Apple doesn't want a integrated IGP from intel. And Intel is forcing it upon manufactures. Snow Leopard is built around Open CL. Unless Intel gives Apple a special IGP less Arrandale or Clarksdale they are not going to use those chips unless they use a discreet card in the entire lineup. They are not going to abandon Open CL regardless of any processor offering from Intel.

The intergrated IGP in the new i5's and i7's will be the determining factor in their lineup going forward.
NVIDIA isn't going anywhere. Since Apple is doing business with NVIDIA and using their IGP and not Intels's someone has to budge.

http://www.slashgear.com/nvidia-mcp89-and-mcp99-ion-successors-headed-to-apple-in-q1-2010-1452360/
http://www.slashgear.com/apple-reject-arrandale-request-non-gpu-mobile-core-i5-i7-chips-0765327/

I would think Apple shouldn't be blocking Intel's innovations. Innovation is King right? Go with the flow and all!

[Eidorian]

Both MBP and Mac Pro, I'd like to know if this is an artificial ceiling from Adobe or if there is a failure in OSX not being able to swap system RAM for GPU RAM.It might be a limitation of what can be loaded into Video RAM before you have to hop down to system RAM. What does the Performance pane say about OpenGL?

[Aegelward]

I have to say, i'm holding out for a quad 21" iMac, i was actually expecting quads across the range with the last revision.

the 27" is sadly too big for me.

[sth]

2010 iMac... I wouldn't expect updates until WWDC, maybe even longer than that.

IMHO the current iMac lineup is great and the 27" iMac possibly the most reasonably priced computer Apple has ever made. Apple has really started to set their hardware apart from the PC crowd again, not just in terms of design but also technically. First with the current MBP line (some of the best notebook displays on the market + incredible battery life) and now also with the iMacs (there are just a hand full of displays on the market that can match the 27" iMac's resolution and I can only find 4 that cost less than a 27" iMac - any they come without a computer included).

Don't know what will happen to the Core2 models in future ... we'll probably see which direction Apple is going with the next MBPs. All they can do to the Core i5/i7 models is some speed bumps until Sandy bridge comes out (probably in 2011). The only thing that will probably change is the dedicated graphics cards since the successor to the Mobility Radeon 4000 series is going to be released in Q1/2010. Well, at least I hope they will switch over to either the Radeon 5000 or GeForce 300 series. Apple has always been very slow with graphics updates.

It can play it. But not at a resolution that does the beautiful 27" panel justice.
AFAIR someone wrote that COD is playable at ~40fps on the 27" iMac in another thread.
If the card is too slow, you can always go to 720p (1280x720) resolution which should theoretically interpolate nicely (because it's simply factor-2) and it's just 1/4th the amount of pixels.

Yes Adobe's not playing nice. No 64Bit and now this.

These are small 4K files on my 13", when I use a 24" it's down to a 7 file limit. Cards with 512MB+ don't seem to have this limit.
I'm not a big fan of Adobe but this has nothing to do with playing nice, just with limited memory resources. The fault is clearly on Apple's side here.
But besides that: It's not stopping you from opening new windows, it just disables OpenGL acceleration on them making things a bit slower but it shouldn't be a big deal.

Open more than 7 files in PS and you'll get an OpenCL limit message. The 256MB of video ram just doesn't cut it.
Graphics cards always were the weak point of Apple's hardware. The 9400M is okay for entry-level models but it should be allowed to use more memory. As for their discrete GPUs: They're all mediocre at best. The 4850 is quite good but they should have released this card in an iMac when it was new, not 2 months before it's successor comes out. And 512mb in the high-end iMac...
Of course, not many customers need much more graphics performance, so why not make a BTO option for a higher-end graphics card? AFAIK the cards are socketed anyway...

I would think Apple shouldn't be blocking Intel's innovations. Innovation is King right? Go with the flow and all!
You're kidding, right? There's nothing innovative about Intel's integrated graphics chips. The Arrandale package is just Intel's way of pushing nVidia and ATI out of the market. Apple might find a way around using Intel's IGP but most notebook makers won't put much effort into this. They'll just get the cheap all-in-one-package, no matter if it's slower than everything nVidia and ATI have to offer.

[justit]

It might be a limitation of what can be loaded into Video RAM before you have to hop down to system RAM. What does the Performance pane say about OpenGL?

http://grab.by/1ojn

[Eidorian]

Yeah that's definitely what I thought it would say. You can only hold so much in the GPU's VRAM. 256 MB of VRAM is pathetic from Apple when even 4350/GT220 can fly by with 1 GB. They're not powerful GPUs but you have the address space.

[Aegelward]

There isn't any real reason apple can't spring for more GPU memory, they should at least double the memory available on the next update, anything else will be insulting.

[iamthedudeman]

I would think Apple shouldn't be blocking Intel's innovations. Innovation is King right? Go with the flow and all!

Innovation? I wouldn't call Intel's IGP innovation. Nvidia's IGP is far superior. All intel is doing is forcing Nvidia out and the FCC is looking into the matter. It will be a mess for a year or more until Intel and Nvidia figures this out.

Apple has a dilemma on their hands. Will they go all i5 and i7 nehalms across the entire line and discreet graphics on all models, or will they go with i5 and i7's in the 27's and have Quad core 2's on the 21.5s.

I see a refresh within the next three months or shorter. No doubt.

[shanmugam]

What about the GPU where the newer generation of ATI mobile cards seem to have a lower TDP ?

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-5730.23825.0.html

couple of weeks at CES 2010, we might know more information about the watts and TDP.

[Eidorian]

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-5730.23825.0.html

couple of weeks at CES 2010, we might know more information about the watts and TDP.This article (http://en.expreview.com/2009/12/28/amd-set-to-unveil-12-directx-11-gpus-at-ces-2010/6251.html) was working earlier today. It looks like ATI is launching the remaining HD 5000 products at CES 2010.

[shanmugam]

it is officially 2010 :D

iMac 21.5" bound dual core i5s will be released in Jan 7th, another 6 days we will know the performance compared to Core 2 Duos...

[Editor-]

Small question. Does Apple update their iMac's every year? I mean, there difference between whole new models and upgrades right? When did the model before the new iMac come out? And when can we expect the upgrades, and when can we expect a new model?

Thanks

[Eidorian]

Small question. Does Apple update their iMac's every year? I mean, there difference between whole new models and upgrades right? When did the model before the new iMac come out? And when can we expect the upgrades, and when can we expect a new model?

ThanksApple tends to update the iMac twice a year. A spring and fall update have been the most common over the years.

[Pachang]

Small question. Does Apple update their iMac's every year? I mean, there difference between whole new models and upgrades right? When did the model before the new iMac come out? And when can we expect the upgrades, and when can we expect a new model?

Thanks

see http://guides.macrumors.com/iMac_Buyer%27s_Guide for release history.
Since iMacs were pretty broken this time around it may mean they will release them quicker.

[shanmugam]

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3704&p=7

and easily beats some of the Core 2 Quads...

[shanmugam]

Core i3 -540 is the CPU mostly will goto 21.5" $1199 and $1499 models in the next 21.5" upgrade in April to June time frame.

Dual Core i5s are expensive and it is very close to Core i5 750.

[shanmugam]

another benchmark mostly on Dual Core i5s

http://hothardware.com/Articles/Intel-Clarkdale-Core-i5-Desktop-Processor-Debuts/?page=7

[Eidorian]

Lynnfield still appears to be king of the $180-200 market even without Hyperthreading.

The Core i5 6xx line is a bit of a let down to be honest. Core i3 is a better deal. It's tough against AMD's Athlon II X4 though. Clarkdale looks like a fine business processor with the AES hardware and the decent IGP. The jury is out on Mini-ITX HTPC with Clarkdale though. Intel really committed to making HD playback work this time around but beyond that is asking too much.

[Fiete5401]

The Core i3-540 seems to be a decent upgrade from the E7600 we can buy in the current 21.5" iMac.

I found some really good comparisons (all in german but the charts are readable for everyone I think):
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hardware/prozessoren/2010/test_intel_core_i3-530_540_core_i5-661/

[shanmugam]

http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3711

not benchmarks yet and we will get the Core i3 official announcement at 7AM PST from intel.

[shanmugam]

official price list i3-540 - $133.

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/INTC/807341912x0x339926/7CBFDA96-CEE6-4D5D-BD48-4877D2434C0E/Jan_03_10_1ku_Price.pdf

i750s and i860s low power CPUs also in there ...

and NO price reduction on Core 2 Quads

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/2010/20100107comp_sm.htm#story press release

and clever marketing strategy

http://www.intel.com/consumer/products/processors/ratings.htm

i7 - 5 stars
i5 - 4 stars
i3 - 3 stars and so on

[Eidorian]

official price list i3-540 - $133.

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/INTC/807341912x0x339926/7CBFDA96-CEE6-4D5D-BD48-4877D2434C0E/Jan_03_10_1ku_Price.pdf

i750s and i860s low power CPUs also in there ...

and price reduction on Core 2 QuadsI don't see any price reductions for this month. :confused:

[shanmugam]

I don't see any price reductions for this month. :confused:

sorry i meant to say: NO price reduction (and mistyped it).

with the new socket, i doubt EOL cpus will get any price reduction from intel, but we might see them from retailer to clear the inventory for new socket.

[shanmugam]

hi Eidorian,

is there any ATI 5XXX benchmarks out yet?

also looks like Clarkdale implementation of DMI implementation different from Lynnfield because of integrated GPU.

[Eidorian]

hi Eidorian,

is there any ATI 5XXX benchmarks out yet?

also looks like Clarkdale implementation of DMI implementation different from Lynnfield because of integrated GPU.The only comparison I've seen is the Mobility 5870 vs. GTX 280M.

Otherwise the remaining Mobility HD 5000 is line compared in bar graphs against the previous HD 4000 models.

[iamthedudeman]

Did anyone notice that there are allot of refurbs on the Apple store, and that they reduced the price by 100 on all refurbs. The 27 is now selling for 1449!

Last time they did this was last Sept and early Oct, and early last year in Feb.

Could the release of the i3's and i5's be cause of a early refresh? I think it is too early, but the signs are there. Maybe we might be surprised in a few weeks.

[powerbook911]

Did anyone notice that there are allot of refurbs on the Apple store, and that they reduced the price by 100 on all refurbs. The 27 is now selling for 1449!

Last time they did this was last Sept and early Oct, and early last year in Feb.

Could the release of the i3's and i5's be cause of a early refresh? I think it is too early, but the signs are there. Maybe we might be surprised in a few weeks.

That might be cool to have an update. Maybe an update could have them start meeting demand or something with more available components.

[Eidorian]

The first desktop HD 5670 (http://www.hardwarezone.com.my/articles/view.php?cid=3&id=3109&pg=1) benchmark has shown up. Expect more tomorrow. It looks promising against the ~9800GT/4830 range.

[waitingonnov]

Quick revisions are not unheard of. And with Ati undoubtedly keen to push their 5000 series and Intels i5's gaining features we might see one early.

Still haven't received my i5 (ordered in Oct) so I'm canceling and waiting.

[Eidorian]

Looks like someone got ahold of the HD 5450 (http://www.arabhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?t=153600) as well. I wonder if there are going to be GDDR5 versions.

[shanmugam]

Quick revisions are not unheard of. And with Ati undoubtedly keen to push their 5000 series and Intels i5's gaining features we might see one early.

Still haven't received my i5 (ordered in Oct) so I'm canceling and waiting.

6 to 8 months are the normal time gap between iMac revisions, so we can expect a speed bump or revision any time from April.

you know it is going to be almost 3 months since the latest iMac relesaed ...

[shanmugam]

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3720&p=5

but it is the desktop version, we can see the mobile version improvements similar to this ...

[waitingonnov]

Couldn't find any benchmarks for the 5850 mobility, but I'm sure someone had some posted somewhere.... will keep looking.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-5850.23069.0.html

[shanmugam]

Couldn't find any benchmarks for the 5850 mobility, but I'm sure someone had some posted somewhere.... will keep looking.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-5850.23069.0.html

39 watts easily fit in 27" iMac, wonder apple will go all the way up 5870 (60 watts) or not.

21.5" - ATI 5670 512 MB?
27" - ATI 5850 1GB?

[waitingonnov]

Seems odd to have less gpu ram on the 27" especially since it starts counting a lot more at higher resolutions


39 watts easily fit in 27" iMac, wonder apple will go all the way up 5870 (60 watts) or not.

21.5" - ATI 5670 1GB?
27" - ATI 5850 512MB?

[shanmugam]

Seems odd to have less gpu ram on the 27" especially since it starts counting a lot more at higher resolutions

sorry, it should be the other way around, corrected it.

[iamthedudeman]

official price list i3-540 - $133.

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/INTC/807341912x0x339926/7CBFDA96-CEE6-4D5D-BD48-4877D2434C0E/Jan_03_10_1ku_Price.pdf

i750s and i860s low power CPUs also in there ...

and NO price reduction on Core 2 Quads

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/2010/20100107comp_sm.htm#story press release

and clever marketing strategy

http://www.intel.com/consumer/products/processors/ratings.htm

i7 - 5 stars
i5 - 4 stars
i3 - 3 stars and so on


Just judging by the price list alone, we might see a tiered processor tied to a different model of imac. For instance the Mac mini will probably get the Core i3's and the imac 21.5's and entry level 27 get the i5's.

The 3.06Ghz in the i3 540 is not going to fly because that is what the current imacs run at. Even though they are not equal clock for clock they will avoid that for marketing purposes, hopefully. They will go above that mark. And the low end i5 hits that mark at 3.2Ghz. They might even go for the 3.33 i5.

Even though the price of the current Core 2 Duo is 133 and the high end core i3 540 is 133 I am sure that intel is giving Apple special pricing, Apple is not paying that price. Either way both are a improvement over the Current Core 2 duo and any version.

We also have the new ATI cards 5 series and I can see that Apple will have to go with a discreet solution because of the i5 and i3's intergrated GPU from intel will force their hand. It doesn't matter though as the ATI 5 series all support OpenGL and direct X11.

I can see them getting rid of Nvidia entirely. Ion 2 or the Geforce G310 is nothing but a 210M. Yes twice as fast as the current 9400M G but still no support for direct X11.

[shanmugam]

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i3+M+330+%40+2.13GHz

looking at this graphic i3M 330 (macbook bound) easily beats 21.5" iMac E7600 CPU.

Once i3/i5 goes to MacBook and MacBookPro, they will be faster than 21.5" iMac desktop!!! ironic.

really apple needs to put the i5 750 into $1499 and up machines ...

$1199
21.5" iMac
Core i3 - 3.06Ghz
1TB HDD
4GB RAM
ATI 5670 256MB

$1499
21.5" iMac
Core i5 - 750 - 2.66GHz
4GB RAM
1TB HDD
ATI 5670 512MB

$1699
27" iMac
Core i5 - 750 - 2.66GHz
4GB RAM
1TB HDD
ATI 5670 512MB

$1999
27" iMac
Core i7 - 860 - 2.80GHz
4GB RAM
2TB HDD
ATI 5850 1GB

[waitingonnov]

Certainly would be great to the 5800 series, and i3 in the low end. But I don't see the high end 21.5 matching the 27 that closely. Maybe a faster clocked i3

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i3+M+330+%40+2.13GHz

looking at this graphic i3M 330 (macbook bound) easily beats 21.5" iMac E7600 CPU.

Once i3/i5 goes to MacBook and MacBookPro, they will be faster than 21.5" iMac desktop!!! ironic.

really apple needs to put the i5 750 into $1499 and up machines ...

$1199
21.5" iMac
Core i3 - 3.06Ghz
1TB HDD
4GB RAM
ATI 5670 256MB

$1499
21.5" iMac
Core i5 - 750 - 2.66GHz
4GB RAM
1TB HDD
ATI 5670 512MB

$1699
27" iMac
Core i5 - 750 - 2.66GHz
4GB RAM
1TB HDD
ATI 5670 512MB

$1999
27" iMac
Core i7 - 860 - 2.80GHz
4GB RAM
2TB HDD
ATI 5850 1GB

[Icaras]

Certainly would be great to the 5800 series, and i3 in the low end. But I don't see the high end 21.5 matching the 27 that closely. Maybe a faster clocked i3

Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but the quad cores are only available in the i5s and up, right? So do you think that the 21.5" models in the next refresh won't see any quad core upgrades?

[Eidorian]

The Core i5 750 is a quad core based on the 45 nm Lynnfield.

The Core i5 6xx line are dual core parts in 32 nm.

[Icaras]

The Core i5 750 is a quad core based on the 45 nm Lynnfield.

The Core i5 6xx line are dual core parts in 32 nm.

Got it. Thanks. Well I'm holding out for a 21.5" quad core, so I hope we see the former in the next 21.5", at least in the $1499 high end model.

[waitingonnov]

Good call! In that case I could see i5 DualCore as a possibility.
I can't imagine Apple making the 21.5 a quadcore. I think we almost have a consumer/pro-sumer split, why would they blur the line and risk selling less w7s?
The Core i5 750 is a quad core based on the 45 nm Lynnfield.

The Core i5 6xx line are dual core parts in 32 nm.

[iamthedudeman]

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i3+M+330+%40+2.13GHz

looking at this graphic i3M 330 (macbook bound) easily beats 21.5" iMac E7600 CPU.

Once i3/i5 goes to MacBook and MacBookPro, they will be faster than 21.5" iMac desktop!!! ironic.

really apple needs to put the i5 750 into $1499 and up machines ...

$1199
21.5" iMac
Core i3 - 3.06Ghz
1TB HDD
4GB RAM
ATI 5670 256MB

$1499
21.5" iMac
Core i5 - 750 - 2.66GHz
4GB RAM
1TB HDD
ATI 5670 512MB

$1699
27" iMac
Core i5 - 750 - 2.66GHz
4GB RAM
1TB HDD
ATI 5670 512MB

$1999
27" iMac
Core i7 - 860 - 2.80GHz
4GB RAM
2TB HDD
ATI 5850 1GB

Wow.I like that lineup. I if they do any thing like this I am going to buy another one. Sadly I don't think that a Quad i5 is going in any 21.5 mac.

I could see the high end i3 540 or low end dual core i5 650 as a upgrade in the 21.5's base. The dual i5 650 as the starting processor and the higher end 661 as the processor upgrade for the 1500 dollar 21.5. I doubt that the base will get a 1TB same as the 1500 imac, maybe 640GB or 750GB. I hope I am wrong though, and they do something along the lines that you posted.

The biggest bang for your buck is the i3 540. It looks like the base imac will be the biggest winner for the next refresh. Regardless.

[shanmugam]

Wow.I like that lineup. I if they do any thing like this I am going to buy another one. Sadly I don't think that a Quad i5 is going in any 21.5 mac.

I could see the high end i3 540 or low end dual core i5 650 as a upgrade in the 21.5's base. The dual i5 650 as the starting processor and the higher end 661 as the processor upgrade for the 1500 dollar 21.5. I doubt that the base will get a 1TB same as the 1500 imac, maybe 640GB or 750GB. I hope I am wrong though, and they do something along the lines that you posted.

The biggest bang for your buck is the i3 540. It looks like the base imac will be the biggest winner for the next refresh. Regardless.

i3 - 540 - 3.06 GHz - $133
i5 - 650 - 3.20GHz - $176
i5 - 660 - 3.33Ghz - $196

and
i5 - 750 - 2.66Ghz - $196

looking at the price, other than i3 - 540, other i5 dual cores are near to i5 750.

it is fair say that i5 - 750 is good choice for 21.5" $1499 model.

Only constraint is quad core i5 heat and thermal problems in 21.5"

[iamthedudeman]

i3 - 540 - 3.06 GHz - $133
i5 - 650 - 3.20GHz - $176
i5 - 660 - 3.33Ghz - $196

and
i5 - 750 - 2.66Ghz - $196

looking at the price, other than i3 - 540, other i5 dual cores are near to i5 750.

it is fair say that i5 - 750 is good choice for 21.5" $1499 model.

Only constraint is quad core i5 heat and thermal problems in 21.5"

The i3-540 is the exact same price as the core 2 duo's in the current base imac.

But I was referring to the heat issue, not a price issue, within reason. The price can always be negotiated. Apple is not paying the price listed in that link anyway, that is for vendors, not corporations who buy them in the millions.

That is negotiated under a contract, which Apple and Intel have.

Remember they had to 'redesign' the current imacs so they can use desktop processors. Like I said earlier a "mobile' quad-core would work, but the price would be too much.

[Icaras]

So when does everyone think the next refresh will be out? My money is on late spring (Apr/May).

[Fiete5401]

Can anybody please explain the difference between the i5 660 and the i5 661?
Intel shows the exact same specifications for these two processors. :confused:

[Eidorian]

Can anybody please explain the difference between the i5 660 and the i5 661?
Intel shows the exact same specifications for these two processors. :confused:The IGP in the Core i5 661 is clocked higher at 900 MHz.

[Fiete5401]

The IGP in the Core i5 661 is clocked higher at 900 MHz.

Thanks Eidorian. It's curious that Intel thinks this spec is not worth mentioning.

[Eidorian]

Thanks Eidorian. It's curious that Intel thinks this spec is not worth mentioning.I had to dig a little deeper but Intel does list it.

[Fiete5401]

I had to dig a little deeper but Intel does list it.

Thanks again! :)

[shanmugam]

So when does everyone think the next refresh will be out? My money is on late spring (Apr/May).

yup, any time between april to june WWDC

certainly not tomorrow :p

[iamthedudeman]

yup, any time between april to june WWDC

certainly not tomorrow :p

I wouldn't bet on "not' tomorrow. March would be my guess. Or tomorrow for the new processors, and maybe a touch imac.

You never know with Apple.

[willcodejavafor]

Have they fixed the screen issues with the new iMac's yet? I doubt there will be an update until that has been resolved. March seems reasonable though if it has been fixed.

[Eidorian]

http://techpowerup.com/114273/Upcoming_Intel_Core_CPUs_Detailed.html


Core i7 980X "Gulftown": six-core, LGA-1366, 3.33 GHz (turbo: 3.60 GHz), March 16
Core i7 970 "Bloomfield": quad-core, LGA-1366, 3.33 GHz (turbo: 3.46 GHz), Q3, 2010
Core i7 930 "Bloomfield": quad-core, LGA-1366, 2.80 GHz (turbo: 3.06 GHz), February 28
Core i7 880 "Lynnfield": quad-core, LGA-1156, 3.06 GHz (turbo: 3.73 GHz), Q2, 2010
Core i5 680 "Clarkdale": dual-core, LGA-1156, 3.60 GHz (turbo: 3.80 GHz), Mid-May
Core i3 550 "Clarkdale": dual-core, LGA-1156, 3.20 GHz, Q2, 2010
Pentium E6700 "Wolfdale-2M": dual-core, LGA-775, 3.43 GHz, Q2, 2010


2010 is going to be a year of speed bumps. Hopefully the quad cores will trickle down to the lower priced models. I wouldn't be surprised if the Core i5 750 disappeared entirely though.

[Btom]

My hope is that in 2010 Apple will finally come clean on the "flickerting" and the "yellowting", before attempting any other high-tech tweaks.
First things first.

Tom B.

[donster28]

Sorry if this has been montioned before (too tired to look up the previous posts...been a long day hehe) but it would be great if we can purchase the i7 iMacs in retail stores. :)

[jodr]

Sorry if this has been montioned before (too tired to look up the previous posts...been a long day hehe) but it would be great if we can purchase the i7 iMacs in retail stores. :)

Maybe this is just wishful thinking, but with the i-core so slow to trickle into Apple products (relative to the rest of the industry) I could see them doing a processor-based event to unveil bumps across the Mac lines. Apple's fanbase is still comprised of hipsters and geeks, and they must know that the latter cares about a bump like this.

[donster28]

Maybe this is just wishful thinking, but with the i-core so slow to trickle into Apple products (relative to the rest of the industry) I could see them doing a processor-based event to unveil bumps across the Mac lines. Apple's fanbase is still comprised of hipsters and geeks, and they must know that the latter cares about a bump like this.

Based on the demand I see on the i7, it's a no brainer for Apple to make it more available to the masses. My wishful thinking might seem a wish to some but I actually think it will be reality soon.

[Christianallen]

Well what I don't think would make a whole lot of sense is for Apple to upgrade the processors of the Macbook Pro whilst still having older processors in their main line of desktops.

Seeing as a Macbook Pro update appears imminent, wouldn't an iMac refresh also seem to be coming soon?

[iamthedudeman]

Well what I don't think would make a whole lot of sense is for Apple to upgrade the processors of the Macbook Pro whilst still having older processors in their main line of desktops.

Seeing as a Macbook Pro update appears imminent, wouldn't an iMac refresh also seem to be coming soon?


Well, the 27 imac doesn't have older processors in the i7 and quad core i5, the the C2D 21.5's would. The Macbook pro is the top of the line laptop and the 27 is the top of the line imac. The Macpro's and Macbook pros will probably get a refresh at the same time.
Apples store is down for updates right now. The imacs will probably follow suit right after. Hopefully. It would be great if they shocked us and updated both at the same time. I doubt it. If the pro's get updated this morning, expect the imacs to get a update in March at the latest.

[Icaras]

Seeing as a Macbook Pro update appears imminent, wouldn't an iMac refresh also seem to be coming soon?

No.

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iMac

[Christianallen]

No.

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iMac

Yeah, I know it's in the middle of its refresh cycle, but it just doesn't make sense that they would have laptops with more advanced CPUs and leave desktops in the dust.

[jodr]

That Buyer's Guide is very handy, but it isn't Revelations or anything. It shows you what's been done in the past and has handy averages that tell you when it would be a horrible idea to buy a new Apple device if you don't absolutely need one. But other than that, it can't predict the future.

[Christianallen]

Exactly, there have been updates less than three months apart (though it's atypical).

I believe what Apple will do is refresh all of their computers by the time the iPad is released. I also think to spur sales of the iPad, they'll offer a $100 off deal if you buy a new Mac and and iPad together.

After seeing that recent article about probable iPad development costs, that seems all the more likely seeing as they'd still make a profit off of a $399 iPad.

Or maybe I'm just dreaming.

[spcdust]

Exactly, there have been updates less than three months apart (though it's atypical).

I believe what Apple will do is refresh all of their computers by the time the iPad is released. I also think to spur sales of the iPad, they'll offer a $100 off deal if you buy a new Mac and and iPad together.

After seeing that recent article about probable iPad development costs, that seems all the more likely seeing as they'd still make a profit off of a $399 iPad.

Or maybe I'm just dreaming.

Who gave you the crystal ball;);)

[shanmugam]

MB/MBP updates and graphic cards in there will tell us what is the next GPUs in the iMac

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iMac another three months to go!

[shanmugam]

http://techpowerup.com/114273/Upcoming_Intel_Core_CPUs_Detailed.html


Core i7 980X "Gulftown": six-core, LGA-1366, 3.33 GHz (turbo: 3.60 GHz), March 16
Core i7 970 "Bloomfield": quad-core, LGA-1366, 3.33 GHz (turbo: 3.46 GHz), Q3, 2010
Core i7 930 "Bloomfield": quad-core, LGA-1366, 2.80 GHz (turbo: 3.06 GHz), February 28
Core i7 880 "Lynnfield": quad-core, LGA-1156, 3.06 GHz (turbo: 3.73 GHz), Q2, 2010
Core i5 680 "Clarkdale": dual-core, LGA-1156, 3.60 GHz (turbo: 3.80 GHz), Mid-May
Core i3 550 "Clarkdale": dual-core, LGA-1156, 3.20 GHz, Q2, 2010
Pentium E6700 "Wolfdale-2M": dual-core, LGA-775, 3.43 GHz, Q2, 2010


2010 is going to be a year of speed bumps. Hopefully the quad cores will trickle down to the lower priced models. I wouldn't be surprised if the Core i5 750 disappeared entirely though.

Core i7 880 is $562 may be not a standard option but BTO

bring down the i5 750 to 21.5" already!

[Icaras]

MB/MBP updates and graphic cards in there will tell us what is the next GPUs in the iMac

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iMac another three months to go!

God I hope you are right. I am waiting very anxiously and I really hope they don't wait until WWDC to refresh the line. The wait is killing me.

Do you suspect Apple may finally give the iMac an SSD via CTO?

[Pachang]

I hope they put more than one video out so that I can have at least two external screens.
I guess they will update the iMacs pretty soon after the macbook pros/mac pros. Seeing as arrandale is mostly out....wouldn't they also update macbooks (again) while they are at it?

I'd say either iMacs come out 2 months after new laptops or they come out with a significant design change at WWDC with (possibly touch screens). i5/i3s clarks will probs replace c2ds in the lower model. The i7 27" might not get a speed bumb, unless they get released later than we think and they get the i7 Eidorian posted.

[shanmugam]

God I hope you are right. I am waiting very anxiously and I really hope they don't wait until WWDC to refresh the line. The wait is killing me.

Do you suspect Apple may finally give the iMac an SSD via CTO?

I highly doubt so, this is a desktop where you need like minimum 500GB storage even say at least 300GB, SSD are expensive above 128GB

the cheaper ones from Kingston and other companies are 60GB or 80GB.

may be next year 2011 WWDC we will see SSD option in iMac.

[Pachang]

I highly doubt so, this is a desktop where you need like minimum 500GB storage even say at least 300GB, SSD are expensive above 128GB

the cheaper ones from Kingston and other companies are 60GB or 80GB.

may be next year 2011 WWDC we will see SSD option in iMac.

Why do people who want iMacs automatically need at least 300GB? I want a iMac and would gladly trade storage space for speed. 128GB is fine.

[Icaras]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

I highly doubt so, this is a desktop where you need like minimum 500GB storage even say at least 300GB, SSD are expensive above 128GB

the cheaper ones from Kingston and other companies are 60GB or 80GB.

may be next year 2011 WWDC we will see SSD option in iMac.

Why do people who want iMacs automatically need at least 300GB? I want a iMac and would gladly trade storage space for speed. 128GB is fine.

+1!

Hey, that's what externals are for.

[Eidorian]

It looks like LGA 1156 does have a little more life on the low end with a rumored Core i5 760 (http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/05/21/intel-set-launch-more-lga-1156-processors-soon/). It's only a tiny 133 MHz boost from the older Core i5 750 and the stepping will remain the same.

There's nothing new on the Core 2 front after the release of the remaining mobile Core 2 Duo CULV parts for thin notebooks.

I wouldn't expect any major changes beyond high clocked Nehalem/Westmere processors until Sandy Bridge in Q1 2011.

[Hellhammer]

It looks like LGA 1156 does have a little more life on the low end with a rumored Core i5 760 (http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/05/21/intel-set-launch-more-lga-1156-processors-soon/). It's only a tiny 133 MHz boost from the older Core i5 750 and the stepping will remain the same.

There's nothing new on the Core 2 front after the release of the remaining mobile Core 2 Duo CULV parts for thin notebooks.

I wouldn't expect any major changes beyond high clocked Nehalem/Westmere processors until Sandy Bridge in Q1 2011.

LGA 1156 will be dead when Sandy comes as LGA 1155 isn't compatible with 1156 :(