Education Discounts at APPLE.COM ??

[thekid055]

I recently called Apple to ask about the educational discounts. I asked if you had to send anything in to verify/prove that you are currently a student and the rep said "No". If this is true, what would stop non students from getting the educational discounts?? I've bought stuff before at other places and have had to prove that I was currently enrolled at my university before I could get the student discount.

Well, that will just make things not so complicated when I finally do purchase my powerbook, which will be in the next few weeks....I'm definitely gonna take advantage of that cram and jam deal!!

[thehuncamunca]

the apple edu store runs off the honor system
occasionally apple does ask for verification that you are a student, the worst they'll do if they find out you aren't is cancel your order

I recently called Apple to ask about the educational discounts. I asked if you had to send anything in to verify/prove that you are currently a student and the rep said "No". If this is true, what would stop non students from getting the educational discounts?? I've bought stuff before at other places and have had to prove that I was currently enrolled at my university before I could get the student discount.

Well, that will just make things not so complicated when I finally do purchase my powerbook, which will be in the next few weeks....I'm definitely gonna take advantage of that cram and jam deal!!

[SolidGun]

Apple occasionally calls up the school and verifies the information. My wife's friend works in admissions office and she said she got a call asking about my enrollment status from Apple, and of course she rushed after work to see my wife and my wife found out that I bought the PB instead of having traded it in with my old laptop at no charge (which is the story I went with).
I don't know what the agreement says, but breach in that agreement may have more severe punishment. :eek:

[NusuniAdmin]

Wait, i got in an argument with a friend the other day about the edu discount.

He said if you are a k-12 student no matter what you can get a discount from apple.com, so i check and for my school it says teachers and administration...just outta curiosity does anyone know?

[daxdagr8t]

The educational discount is intended for educators and college students, highschool students are not included in the discount which is odd.At the physical store you'll need to prove that you are a student but in the online store they do not require any proof that you are student.

[Chaszmyr]

highschool students are not included in the discount which is odd.

It's not that add really. College students are generally working to pay their own living and their tuition, HS students generally aren't.

[jtgotsjets]

It's not that add really. College students are generally working to pay their own living and their tuition, HS students generally aren't.

plus most high school seniors will be able to get the discount anyway (you only have to be "accepted" to a university)

[NusuniAdmin]

It's not that add really. College students are generally working to pay their own living and their tuition, HS students generally aren't.

which really sucks too...ah well. Actually the private school i was going to is setting something up for next year so students can get a discount. The school is a dedicated college proprietary school anyways. I wonder if they will have good luck...

[Natalia81]

Apple occasionally calls up the school and verifies the information. My wife's friend works in admissions office and she said she got a call asking about my enrollment status from Apple, and of course she rushed after work to see my wife and my wife found out that I bought the PB instead of having traded it in with my old laptop at no charge (which is the story I went with).
I don't know what the agreement says, but breach in that agreement may have more severe punishment. :eek:

What "punishment" could they possibly do other than cancel your order? Has anyone tried ordering off the education site and was not a student or school faculty member??

[OziMac]

No, they'll cancel your order or make you pay the difference. They do occassionally ask you for verifying details on the online store, but it's random.

Really, what is the big deal here? If you're not entitled to it, don't order EDU-priced items, or else you do so at your own risk and don't deserve any sympathy here.

[Dr. Dastardly]

The program is set up to help out students and teachers. If your not a student or teacher then please don't use the edu discount.

[homerjward]

forgive me father for i have sinned. i am a high school student, but since high school students are not officially supported (at least my high school) i used my mom's teacher discount to order the ipod from my sig. please dont punish me apple! dont make the imac g5 suck because of my dishonesty! my dad might actually buy one so dont make them bad!

[shecky]

If your not a student or teacher then please don't use the edu discount.

and i say that the hardware is so damn expensive that you should use any means neccesary to get a better deal that is sanctioned by Apple, eg. edu discount, ADC discount, refurbs, etc...

if it was killing them on profit, it would be gone, OR it would be policed MUCH more than it is now. Same with the ADC discount. Screw 'ethics', its a free market - buying a powerbook at full retail when you can buy it at a discount is like knowing you paid more for the plane seat than the guy next to you, but you said "OK" anyway. Apple still makes a profit just fine on edu and ADC discounted hardware + software.

[Chip NoVaMac]

forgive me father for i have sinned. i am a high school student, but since high school students are not officially supported (at least my high school) i used my mom's teacher discount to order the ipod from my sig. please dont punish me apple! dont make the imac g5 suck because of my dishonesty! my dad might actually buy one so dont make them bad!

I doubt that Apple cares about a situation like yours.

What might kill the program are those that have no one in the household that qualifies. I mean out right lying that you can get the discount, and hoping you don't get caught.

What some forget is that educational discounts are offered by some companies on the hopes that you will stay with them and buy without the discount once your educational discount status ends. It is called building market share.

[Chip NoVaMac]

and i say that the hardware is so damn expensive that you should use any means neccesary to get a better deal that is sanctioned by Apple, eg. edu discount, ADC discount, refurbs, etc...

if it was killing them on profit, it would be gone, OR it would be policed MUCH more than it is now. Same with the ADC discount. Screw 'ethics', its a free market - buying a powerbook at full retail when you can buy it at a discount is like knowing you paid more for the plane seat than the guy next to you, but you said "OK" anyway. Apple still makes a profit just fine on edu and ADC discounted hardware + software.

You open up an ethical dilemma. Just where do you stop to gain an advantage? Not just with computer hardware, but in anything else in life. Insider trading OK, as long as you don't get caught? An Enron style of working the commodity markets? I am afraid of the direction that this might lead the nation.

[jsalzer]

We have to keep in mind that Apple doesn't provide the educator/student discounts out of some misplaced morals. It's a part of a marketing plan.

A car dealership offers a discount to first-time buyers hoping that they'll enjoy the make of car and the dealer experience enough to buy their future cars at the same dealer.

This is why college students get the discount. Let them spend a few years falling in love with the Mac platform so that Apple will gain a life-long customer.

And why offer the discount to educators? For K-12, students will see their role models (cough) using Macs and be more likely to picture it as the platform to get when they get older.

Also, district Tech Coordinators (K-12) and Tech Directors (college) tend to be techies who would love to "standardize" the entire district/college on Windows. The more teachers you have fighting this, the more likely the school will maintain Mac labs and Macs in the classroom. Apple knows this.

Personally, I've worked at two colleges that were 100% Windows and now work at an R.O.E. that is 99% Windows. I take seriously my responsibility to win over converts. Apple takes care of me, and I take care of Apple.

You wouldn't consider asking for a first-time car buyer discount on your third car, so why would you consider ripping off Apple? Besides, the educator discounts are so gosh darn close to the non-educator prices nowadays that it doesn't seem worth the trouble.

[IndyGopher]

You open up an ethical dilemma. Just where do you stop to gain an advantage? Not just with computer hardware, but in anything else in life. Insider trading OK, as long as you don't get caught? An Enron style of working the commodity markets? I am afraid of the direction that this might lead the nation.

There's no dilemma here. Lying is wrong. Ask most any 4 year old. You can muck up the issue with all the other crap you want to, but this is what it boils down to. Are you a currently enrolled college student? Are you faculty or staff at a K-12 school, or a college? There is not much wiggle room there. So you either are, and are entitled, or you aren't, and thus not entitled.

As to the original post, the airline analogy is completely off-base. If you want to make it even, the analogy would be, the guy next to you got a bereivement rate because he's flying home to bury his parents. Is it ok to tell the airline you're in the same situation to get the same rate? (If you say yes, there's no point reading anything else you have to say, ever.)

[supergod]

I don't know about the American Apple Store, but the Canadian one has a mistake where when it asks you to enter your student number you just enter any random 9 numbers (ie: 123456789) and it will give you the discount. I don't go to University and I have been getting an 11% discount on everything that I buy. Then again, I could always simply borrow the student card of someone who goes to University, but this is just more fun!

[Duff-Man]

I don't know about the American Apple Store, but the Canadian one has a mistake where when it asks you to enter your student number you just enter any random 9 numbers (ie: 123456789) and it will give you the discount. I don't go to University and I have been getting an 11% discount on everything that I buy. Then again, I could always simply borrow the student card of someone who goes to University, but this is just more fun!Duff-Man says....yes, dishonesty and cheating is "fun" :rolleyes: ...oh yeah!

[Chip NoVaMac]

There's no dilemma here. Lying is wrong. Ask most any 4 year old. You can muck up the issue with all the other crap you want to, but this is what it boils down to. Are you a currently enrolled college student? Are you faculty or staff at a K-12 school, or a college? There is not much wiggle room there. So you either are, and are entitled, or you aren't, and thus not entitled.

As to the original post, the airline analogy is completely off-base. If you want to make it even, the analogy would be, the guy next to you got a bereivement rate because he's flying home to bury his parents. Is it ok to tell the airline you're in the same situation to get the same rate? (If you say yes, there's no point reading anything else you have to say, ever.)

Hope you weren't trying to use "you" to describe me personally.

Maybe my choice of the word "dilemma" was wrong, but the thought was that we are becoming a nation of people that make excuses, as long as we can benefit in some way. So you and I are on the same side of the coin, I think. So i question whether there is a "point reading anything else you have to say, ever" too.

And in regards to the bereavement example, that is flawed also. Depending on the airline, it might vary. But I do know that American Airlines 20+ years ago required a death notice/certificate, or a doctors note in order to qualify.

As an aside on this, there are people that would answer yes. Look at how many people lie about someone passing to get time off of work. As any HR director. In some cases the same person has died two or three times.

[shecky]

it has notihing to do with lying, it has to do with taking advantagte of an exisiting procedure set up by the company i am buying from to get a better price. Insider trading is a stupid example, because that is ILLEGAL. using the edu discount when not a student is not illegal, just possibly unethical. And if Apple had thier organization together enough to properly police it, then it would be a non issue. Read what i said again, taking advantage of procedures in place that ARE SANCTIONED BY APPLE to get a better price is fine by me. You are not breaking any laws.

[stevehaslip]

it has notihing to do with lying.

what would you call it then?

using the edu discount when not a student is not illegal, just possibly unethical.

its fraud! You are potentially harming Apple, sure they have $$$ in the bank but you really want to put something you enjoy on a day to day basis in jeopardy because you want to save yourself a few bucks?

Sure you won't be the one to lose out, you obviously aren't a student but if everybody who bought an Apple computer claimed educational discount then Apple would have to stop doing it. And students, who can't always afford to fork out for the full price would suffer. That doesn't exactly seem fair?
So if you can get away with it then that makes it ok?

[Duff-Man]

it has notihing to do with lying, it has to do with taking advantagte of an exisiting procedure set up by the company i am buying from to get a better price. Insider trading is a stupid example, because that is ILLEGAL. using the edu discount when not a student is not illegal, just possibly unethical. And if Apple had thier organization together enough to properly police it, then it would be a non issue. Read what i said again, taking advantage of procedures in place that ARE SANCTIONED BY APPLE to get a better price is fine by me. You are not breaking any laws.Duff-Man says....once again I am amazed (but not totally surprised) at some of the weak excuses people come up with to try and justify their cheating.....oh yeah!

[Chip NoVaMac]

what would you call it then?

So if you can get away with it then that makes it ok?

For some it is. And this is my concern for the future of the nation as a whole. We seem to be selfish. So what if I speed, I am just driving what the roads can handle? So what that I found a loophole in the law that allows me to do xyz?

Many people don't know that they are breaking the law when they buy something through "mail-order". Some states have a "use tax" that is to be paid when you file your income taxes.

We seem to be driven towards making excuses for our behavior. The state's tax me too much already. My speeding doesn't hurt anyone. Red-light cameras are there only to make more money. The RIAA and MPAA folks make too much money as it is. Or Apple is making a profit any ways on EDU discounts. The list is endless.

Greed is good should have died long ago.

[shecky]

jesus christ......... will you people LISTEN to what i am saying.

using the edu discount not as a student is NOT ILLEGAL. it is NOT something you can be arrested for, it is not something you can be fined for, it is not something you can goto jail for. (If i am wrong about this by all means let me know... then i will completely recind my argument - but my understanding is that it is NOT illegal.) It is something that Apple has set up to draw more people into purchasing thier wares. IF Apple would police it more vigilantly, IF Apple would force you to send in an ID or something for online orders, IF Apple would require you to flash an ID badge in an Apple store (which soemtimes they do, sometimes they don't), IF Apple did these things, then people would not be able to take advantage of this pricing short of making a fake student ID, which IS ILLEGAL. Apple is not stupid, they are well aware that not every edu sale goes to a qualified edu person, yet they still allow it to run rampant? why is that? I wonder........

......OH YEAH! its because they still make money and still sell thier product and still draw in more customers by offering a "discounted" price. They are not doing edu pricing because they are kind, and good citizens, they are doing it as said above to draw in people while they are younger into buying an Apple platform instead of a PC platform. Its marketing, nothing more.

I have not paid retail for Apple product (or damn near any computer product for that matter) in YEARS, and i feel fan-freaking-tastic about it. Support Apple? i support apple every time i use my powerbook, or my ipod, or itunes, or any number of products. As far as "support Apple by giving them more money when i don't have to" thats absoloutly ridiculous. I don't need to justify or make excuses for my actions, my postings here are to let those less informed know that untill Apple decides to play hardball, you should take advantage of an available discount.

@stevehaslip: i am a student at the moment, so obviously you can go ahead and stop guessing about things you have no knowledge of. even when i was not a student, i have taken advantage of these discounts, so my above argument holds true. And you may call it 'lying,' i call it 'getting the best price thru legal means'

@duff: shecky says: i am not making an excuse for anything, i am pointing out a legal loophole that i feel totally comfortable taking advantage of... oh yeah!

once again... IF what i am saying is illegal, then i will be happy to completely and 100% agree with what all of you are saying, and ask you to disregard what i have said. However, my understanding is that it is NOT illegal.

[wdlove]

When visiting my wife's local university computer they require to see an ID.

[Duff-Man]

using the edu discount not as a student is NOT ILLEGAL. it is NOT something you can be arrested for, it is not something you can be fined for, it is not something you can goto jail for. (If i am wrong about this by all means let me know... then i will completely recind my argument - but my understanding is that it is NOT illegal.) It is something that Apple has set up to draw more people into purchasing thier wares. IF Apple would police it more vigilantly, IF Apple would force you to send in an ID or something for online orders, IF Apple would require you to flash an ID badge in an Apple store (which soemtimes they do, sometimes they don't), IF Apple did these things, then people would not be able to take advantage of this pricing short of making a fake student ID, which IS ILLEGAL. Apple is not stupid, they are well aware that not every edu sale goes to a qualified edu person, yet they still allow it to run rampant? why is that? I wonder........

once again... IF what i am saying is illegal, then i will be happy to completely and 100% agree with what all of you are saying, and ask you to disregard what i have said. However, my understanding is that it is NOT illegal.Duff-Man says....maybe it is nothing you will go to jail for, but it is still wrong. when you enter the online education store you must agree to its terms and conditions:
Eligibility
Eligible purchasers include students who attend a provincially accredited college or university and faculty, educators, and staff who are employed by a provincially accredited college or university. Apple reserves complete discretion in making all eligibility determinations. This program is not for institutional purchases or resale.

Terms & Conditions
The Apple Store for Higher Education Individuals is a benefit provided by Apple Canada Inc. (“Apple”) to students and employees of eligible education institutions. The program is intended for personal use and is not for institutional purchases or resale. Purchases made on the Apple Store for Higher Education Individuals are subject to the complete Terms and Conditions.

By submitting your order, you certify that you have read and understand the terms and conditions of the Apple Store for Higher Education Individuals policy and confirm that you meet the eligibility requirements.

Purchase Quantity
Eligible purchasers will be allowed to purchase one each of the following per academic school year: PowerBook or iBook; iMac; eMac; Power Macintosh G4 or G5; iPod. Two Displays and two copies of each software title on the Apple Store for Higher Education Individuals.

Custom Configured Product
We are pleased to offer product custom configured to your specifications* and encourage you to review your order carefully. Since the product is built to your specifications, the order cannot be modified, returned or cancelled once your order is in production.

* Certain products and rules apply. Please see the Apple Store for Higher Education Individuals web site for eligible custom configuration options.


Agreement:
I agree that I meet the eligibility requirements for the Apple Store for Higher Education Individuals and accept the above terms and conditions.



I am a student

I am a faculty member

I am a staff member


....it is the much the same as the license agreement you agree to when installing software. If you falsify student id #'s to enter the store, you are violating that agreement. Sorry bud, but you are very wrong to think it is okay to do this.....oh yeah!

[shecky]

from the Apple edu store online:

=======
ELIGIBILITY
Those eligible to purchase from the Apple Store for Education Individuals include faculty, staff and students as follows:

K12 - Any employee of a public or private K-12 institution in the United States is eligible. In addition, school board members who are currently serving as elected or appointed members are eligible. PTA or PTO executives currently serving as elected or appointed officers are eligible.

Higher Education - Faculty and staff of Higher Education institutions; and students attending, or accepted into a Higher Education institution are eligible to purchase. Purchases from the Apple Store for Education Individuals are not for institutional purchase or resale.

AUDIT RIGHTS
Apple routinely audits the purchases of customers at the Apple Store for Education to insure that only eligible purchases have ordered and that all purchase conditions have been observed. Should an audit disclose after delivery (or should Apple otherwise discover) that you were not an eligible purchaser at the time you placed your order or that you have not observed all of the conditions applicable to your purchase, you authorize Apple:
If you placed your order by credit card, to charge to your credit card the difference between the amount you paid for the delivered goods and the price that Apple charged the general public for the same goods at the Apple Store, in effect on the date that you placed your order; and

If you paid by a means other than credit card, to (a) invoice you for the difference between the amount that you paid for the delivered goods and the price that Apple charged the general public for the same goods at the Apple Store, payable in fifteen days from the date of the invoice, and (b), should you fail to pay the invoice when due, institute legal action against you in a court of competent jurisdiction, with the prevailing party entitled to attorneys' fees.

Should Apple not offer to the general public the specific products that you purchased at the Apple Store for education, your credit card will be charged or you will be invoiced the difference between the amount you paid for the delivered goods and the price that Apple charged the general public for the closest equivalent goods at the Apple Store, in effect on the date that you placed your order.

=======

the only part of this even approaching anything having to do with the law is the part in italics, however, that is a standard tactic in ANY buyer/seller relationship where the buyer did not pay the correct price; you pay to little, you owe the rest, you pay or get sued. so it is not specific to using the edu discount wrongly, its is specific only to paying the difference in due time, and if you dont pay, then you are subject to legal action. i still contend that that is a spereate issue from using the edu discount - nowhere does it say "if you get caught using the student discount falsely, we will prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law." it just says "if we catch you, you have to pay the difference, and if you dont, then we will sue you for the rest.'

[shecky]

And Duff, i COMPLETELY agree with the notion that falsifying a student ID is wrong and illegal, and in that respect you should absolutely be proesecuted. i am saying take advantage of the discount by using Apple's own inadiquacies in monitoring the discount, legally. And you still may be caught by an audit, in whihc case you pay the difference you would have paid anyway, and go on with your day.

and i think whats wrong is paying more than you legally have to. so i guess i differ from the rest of you there, but i feel just fine about it.

[zelmo]

Here's one for you...
My wife is going to homeschool our 4 year old son (I'm contributing the math and spelling parts) and, although she has not officially started homeschooling him and therefore cannot claim to meet our school district's requirements as an acredited homeschool, she has begun to do quite a bit of research into the various curriculum's available. As such, we were thinking that a laptop and wireless n/w would be beneficial, both in the preparation for, and during homeschooling.
Should she qualify for the edu discount?

[shecky]

http://www.apple.com/education/k12/homeschool/

do you qualify now? no. Should you qualify now? no. Should you still get the machine cheaper if they let you? yes.

[stevehaslip]

@stevehaslip: i am a student at the moment, so obviously you can go ahead and stop guessing about things you have no knowledge of. even when i was not a student, i have taken advantage of these discounts, so my above argument holds true. And you may call it 'lying,' i call it 'getting the best price thru legal means'

hey, theres no need to get arsey mate i was just trying to point out to you (whether you care or not) that what you are doing could have consequences for you and others.

If you want to continue to get the best price through cheating (or whatever you want to call it) then ok, but I wouldn't go advertising it in a forum.

[shecky]

hey, theres no need to get arsey mate i was just trying to point out to you (whether you care or not) that what you are doing could have consequences for you and others.

If you want to continue to get the best price through cheating (or whatever you want to call it) then ok, but I wouldn't go advertising it in a forum.

it can have only 2 consequences, mate, i pay the difference, and/or Apple starts paying attention to people using the discount and enforcing its own rules, mate.

[Earendil]

Here's one for you...
My wife is going to homeschool our 4 year old son (I'm contributing the math and spelling parts) and, although she has not officially started homeschooling him and therefore cannot claim to meet our school district's requirements as an acredited homeschool, she has begun to do quite a bit of research into the various curriculum's available. As such, we were thinking that a laptop and wireless n/w would be beneficial, both in the preparation for, and during homeschooling.
Should she qualify for the edu discount?

(From Dictionary.com)
home·school or home-school
v. home·schooled, home·school·ing, home·schools
v. tr.
To instruct (a pupil, for example) in an educational program outside of established schools, especially in the home.

Have you instructed or educated your son in anyway, while remaining at home? Than congratulations, you are home schooling him. Another definition would be "self taught" which he probably won't fall under until later in life. But hey, has your kid taught himself or learned anything on his own yet? Perhaps a foreign language, such as English, that he may not have known when he was born? He falls under EDU, so go for that discount. besides, he is "enrolled" even if it isn't fall, same way college students get it before the first day of class. I'd say there isn't anything unethical about it.

Tyler - who used the home schooling EDU discount when he was 18 to purchase his very own Apple computer.

ps
If you have any questions or concerns about home schooling, please, send me a PM.

[NusuniAdmin]

i do believe advising illegal things (aka: not agreeing to a terms of use for apple's edu discount and still using it, telling people to give out false info (a federal offence)) is against forum rules.

[shecky]

i do believe advertising illegal things (aka: not agreeing to a terms of use for apple's edu discount and still using it, telling people to give out false info (a federal offence)) is against forum rules.

im not advertising anything. perhalps you mean advising.

[Natalia81]

I'm gonna have to agree with Shecky on this one...it's there, it should be Apple's responsibility to tighten up on this. If you're willing to take the risk and suffer the consequences, then why not go for it!?!?! I don't think Apple will completely shut down the education store...they'd probably just be more strict in verifying people. But that is an Apple issue, not a customer one.

[NusuniAdmin]

im not advertising anything. perhalps you mean advising.

ah yes thnx for catching that, fixed

[OziMac]

I personally feel it is ethically wrong to use the EDU discount if you're not entitled to it. However, I've been entitled to it ever since I've been buying, so perhaps I'm not in the best place to speak for those who aren't. Maybe you (and by 'you' I mean 'one') have to weigh up the risks and take a calculated gamble. Like picking up a tenner off the street and not handing it in. But as I said, you do so at your own risk - technically it is fraud, but it's not a fraud that Apple would go to any pains to enforce any more than cancelling your order or making you pay the difference, as their terms state. :)

[shecky]

technically it is fraud, but it's not a fraud that Apple would go to any pains to enforce any more than cancelling your order or making you pay the difference, as their terms state. :)

my next argument was about to be that ordering online under the edu discount is not fraud since Apple is not asking you to provide ID, therefore you are not being fraudulent.

however...

after rereading the stuff from the apple edu store, i think that technically, you are right - since you agree to apple's terms when making a purchase, then even if they do not ask you for ID you are technically making an agreement based on a falsehood.

so. with that in mind, as i said in my 2nd or 3rd post, i guess it IS illegal, and i recind my argument.

however...

since i am willing to take the risk, since the only thing they are really going to do is make you pay the difference, i personally am still going to take the risk, tho i strongly suggest no one else do so. And if you don't agree with me well, you are on solid legal ground not to.

[FuzzyBallz]

Taking risks huh? Well, you better stick w/ transporting weed between Mexico and the US then, 'cause getting caught in most Asia countries means your head.

[OziMac]

Yeah, exactly shecky - it's a personal decision, I guess.

Bottom line, though: we all wish they were cheaper! (Or that we had more money). :rolleyes:

[Duff-Man]

I'm gonna have to agree with Shecky on this one...it's there, it should be Apple's responsibility to tighten up on this. If you're willing to take the risk and suffer the consequences, then why not go for it!?!?! I don't think Apple will completely shut down the education store...they'd probably just be more strict in verifying people. But that is an Apple issue, not a customer one.Duff-Man says...I know this issue is somewhat settled, and kudos to Shecky for keeping an open mind and thoughtfully reading through Apple's terms again. I would like to make a final comment though - just because that "door is open" does not mean it should be taken advantage of. For example - if you buy a copy of OS X you are entitled to install on a single computer, yet there is nothing in place to stop you from installing it a million times...so does Apple's lack of having some kind of installation s/n or activation scheme then make it okay to install a million times just because they are not preventing you from doing so? Are you saying that you'd rather have them instigate an XP-style activation code, or have them make it more difficult for those entitled to edu prices buy their computers? Really, I think we all know the difference between right and wrong, whether there are any legal hairs to split or not. And I would like to think that the majority of us here will be honest buyers, even though Apple does p*ss us off sometimes ;) ....oh yeah!

[knicksfan58]

as a high school student, i bought my powerbook a few weeks ago using an education discount, not knowing that this was against any existing rule. where exactly does it say that the discount is not intendended for high school students?

[Natalia81]

as a high school student, i bought my powerbook a few weeks ago using an education discount, not knowing that this was against any existing rule. where exactly does it say that the discount is not intendended for high school students?

If you are a student it says you must attend an college/university. The eligibilty requirements does not include high school or lower students.

[SolidGun]

as a high school student, i bought my powerbook a few weeks ago using an education discount, not knowing that this was against any existing rule. where exactly does it say that the discount is not intendended for high school students?

Just to add to this...if someone is going to pull this off in the future, you should know that because you didn't know the terms and the Apple store clerk was not knowledgeable in this matter doesn't mean you will not be held responsible. I am sure someone was thinking of doing this.

[inkster218]

Shecky, I think the point it that those of us against using the discount don't care if it is legal or not, it's about integrity.

"Laws" are made up by people like George Bush and John Kerry and are to be followed to avoid the consequences. Integrity is how you live, not how you are forced to live.

Do what you will, it's about your integrity. And trust me, I do things that go against my idea of perfect integrity too.

And yeah I know, HUGE soapbox here, but a fun string eh??

[shecky]

my integrity is just fine and dandy, thank you very much. on top of which i feel great for having gotten a better deal.

[evilgEEk]

I wish the education discount would allow more than one Pbook/ibook per year. :( Of course it makes perfect sense, why would you need both? But I had hoped to use the ibook for a semester and then give it to my wife to use when I get my kick-arse Pbook in January/February.

I'm just getting the stock (combo drive) 12" ibook, which only retails $100 over the edu discount. I would be more than willing to pay retail for it, but I want to take advantage of the Cram and Jam offer, and can't afford the Pbook until the ol' tax return come next year.

Maybe I'll give apple a call and see if they would make an exception.

Probably not very likely though, eh?

[gekko513]

my integrity is just fine and dandy, thank you very much. on top of which i feel great for having gotten a better deal.
I hate people who act like you. Our society is based on people who do what's right because it's right and because if everyone does the right thing most of the time then we all get to live in a better world.

If the majority of people would do the obviously wrong thing if the risk of being punished was small, then the world would be a much worse place.

In this little case it's easy to show. If a majority of Apple customers would act like you, then Apple would just shut down the edu-discount system. Everyone would have to pay the full price, Apple would lose many edu-customers which in the long run would cause Apple's overall marketshare to drop even lower, and we'll possibly see the end of the Mac.

That's why I hate people who act and think like you.

[shecky]

but i looooooooooooove people like you. :rolleyes:

and people all ready use the system the way it is. you don't like it? feel free to piss off. gates will be happy to take your $.

what apple SHOULD do is police the system they already have in place, but like i have been arguing here for 3 pages already, they WANT these sales regasrdless of edu or retail. so no, it will never go away, but it may eventually be watched more closely.

[gekko513]

but i looooooooooooove people like you. :rolleyes:

and people all ready use the system the way it is. you don't like it? feel free to piss off. gates will be happy to take your $.

what apple SHOULD do is police the system they already have in place, but like i have been arguing here for 3 pages already, they WANT these sales regasrdless of edu or retail. so no, it will never go away, but it may eventually be watched more closely.
You do realise that policing stuff costs a lot of money, which would also raise prices, both edu and non-edu prices. But you don't care, do you? Because you got an iPod for $20 less than I did.

[shecky]

actually i got it for $30 cheaper than you. and stop being so dramatic and whiny.

[OziMac]

Come on guys, this dirt flinging achieves nothing - shecky's made his position clear, and others have made it clear what they think of that. No need to get personal. Both ways.

[gekko513]

You come forward and say: "I cheat, and I think it's ok" ... then I think I'm also entitled to say that I don't think it's ok to cheat. If you don't want people to react negatively, then just cheat and shut up about it. I still don't think it's ok to cheat, but you wouldn't need to hear me "whine" about it.

[shecky]

:::sighs:::

i'd just like to see you propose your argument without nailing yourself to the cross while you do so. speak your mind! go for it! hurry up, cuz after i am done cheating Apple and screwing everyone else out of every penny they make i have some villiages i need to rape + pilliage. :rolleyes:

[gekko513]

I think I've already made my argument quite clear. Policing, enforcement of rules and punishment costs a lot of resources. The less we need of it, the more resources we have (in this case Apple has), to do productive things. The more people who cheat, the more policing, enforcing and punishment is required to keep any regulated activity functioning. That's why I oppose cheating.

Simple ... clear ...

[mpw]

Whether shecky likes it or not he is wrong saying that what he’s doing is not illegal. It’s simple breach of contract.

His ethics are a little erratic as well as he thinks it is wrong to fake a student ID, I’m pretty sure it using the fake ID that would be illegal just as claiming to be a student in a legal binding contract without physically faking an ID card would be.

Also I thought that the ed. discounts were given as the company giving them got a tax break, in the UK anyway, so they didn’t lose out. If it’s the same in the US then you could find the scheme is killed not by Apple but by the IRS when they read in here how many people are ripping them off.

[Dave00]

using the edu discount not as a student is NOT ILLEGAL. it is NOT something you can be arrested for, it is not something you can be fined for, it is not something you can goto jail for. (If i am wrong about this by all means let me know... then i will completely recind my argument - but my understanding is that it is NOT illegal.)
Depends on whether you have to check a box that says something like "I certify that I'm a student at xx University." If you check that box, and you're not actually a student, they have every right to prosecute you under fraud statutes. While I doubt they'd go after you for this for a single purchase, you'd probably at least have to pay the difference if they found out. However, if you went and did something like trying to buy several things under educational discount and then re-sell them to make a profit, you might find out just what legal recourse a company has for prosecuting fraud.

[NusuniAdmin]

Why are you people still going on about this, this typa thing goes on all over the place. Especially in the US.

people take advantage of the system, you would not beleive how many people i have seen on disability that have absolutely nothing wrong with them at all. My aunt for instance drives a schoolbus and she broke a finger...guess what she does not have to work for a three weeks and she still gets paid.

people take advantage of things that were made for others...like EDU discounts. Personally if i was apple i would do a background check on everyone who does the discount, if there is a single fraud i would sue them for as much as i can. But thats just me. Entering false information (or in this case lieing about being a college student or a faculty member or wutever) IS a federal offence and you can get in HUGE HUGE legal troubles. Even for a single offence.

There are many other things but i dont feel like listing them right now. This is just a few examples of how people take advantige (does women begging guys to buy them things count??) It says right on apple's terms of use that they legally CAN do a search on you and if they find you were not eligable for the discount then they CAN and WILL take legal action. Period.

Anyone who agrees to a legal document such as apple's terms of use better have something to back them up if they get a letter from apple's lawyers and did agree wrongfully.

[wannamac]

I think apple knows that people falsely use the edu discount, and that's why it is not such a great discount through their online store, because they have no verification process. On campus, however, I am required to show my student id when I order something at the MOC, and their dicounts are substantially higher. Panther for FREE, airport card for $69, etc. Even the ipod mini (although not available at this very moment) is still cheaper on campus then through the edu store. So, I don't think it is the worst thing I have ever heard of.

Also, this reminds me of my george carlin desk calander quote from Tuesday July 27 - "I think people should be allowed to do whatever they want. We haven't tried that for a while. Maybe this time it will work." ;)

[NusuniAdmin]

I think apple knows that people falsely use the edu discount, and that's why it is not such a great discount through their online store, because they have no verification process. On campus, however, I am required to show my student id when I order something at the MOC, and their dicounts are substantially higher. Panther for FREE, airport card for $69, etc. Even the ipod mini (although not available at this very moment) is still cheaper on campus then through the edu store. So, I don't think it is the worst thing I have ever heard of.

Also, this reminds me of my george carlin desk calander quote from Tuesday July 27 - "I think people should be allowed to do whatever they want. We haven't tried that for a while. Maybe this time it will work." ;)

Yes and the fact at campus stores and such they are cheaper. But online apple really should improve the way its done...or simply lower the discount amounts.

[IndyGopher]

Yes and the fact at campus stores and such they are cheaper. But online apple really should improve the way its done...or simply lower the discount amounts.
Does this mean you suggest that Apple put a store in K-12 schools for the faculty to use, or that teachers make the trip to Cupertino to buy them from Apple? The campus stores are a great idea for colleges, but of course the discount is not soley for college students/staff/faculty, is it? Anything that hurts the chances of teachers using Apple computers at home hurts all Apple users, everywhere. Making teachers (already hideously underpaid in most places) pay more, is a Bad Thing. (No, I'm not a teacher... partly because there is no money in it)

[jxyama]

However, if you went and did something like trying to buy several things under educational discount and then re-sell them to make a profit, you might find out just what legal recourse a company has for prosecuting fraud.

this has already happened. physical apple stores used to offer edu. discounts for software as well as hardware by simply showing the id. however, when some idiots abused the system and started buying software at edu. prices only to sell them to others to make profit, physical apple stores quit offering discounts for anything but hardware.

as others said, cheat if you want. but don't expect others to be tolerant about it. and no comparing to speeding or jaywalking, please. :rolleyes:

[NusuniAdmin]

Does this mean you suggest that Apple put a store in K-12 schools for the faculty to use, or that teachers make the trip to Cupertino to buy them from Apple? The campus stores are a great idea for colleges, but of course the discount is not soley for college students/staff/faculty, is it? Anything that hurts the chances of teachers using Apple computers at home hurts all Apple users, everywhere. Making teachers (already hideously underpaid in most places) pay more, is a Bad Thing. (No, I'm not a teacher... partly because there is no money in it)

how did u get that out of my quote? I am really curious. I simply said online store needs a better way of verifing the person is in fact a student or faculty member.