2nd processor in the Tibook

[Geert]

Just been reading the article on the possible release of the new PM on August 5th.

But when I scrolled all the way up there is another article that caught my attention (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.macbidouille.com%2Fniouzcontenu.php%3Fdate%3D2002-07-24%233114&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools) (first article)

Seems that somebody in the US opened his Tibook and that there is a new, rather strange motherboard inside, providing place for a second proccessor. He said that he did not find any pictures, but asked if somebody recently acquired a new Tibook 800 and needed to open it up for some reason to take a look, to see if this is a really the case.

Any of you guys know something about this?

[Wes]

Yeah, he was also asking anybody else with a tibook to open up their keyboard and have a look. Somebody have a newly bought powerbook?

[Mr. Anderson]

hmm, time to go to the Apple Store and look under the hood - heh, I bet I could get one of the employees to do it for me. I'll try to do it soon.

D

[Wes]

Yeah dukestreet, if you can, check that out for us ;-).

[AlphaTech]

Is this alteration supposed to be on just the very latest shipments of the TiBook or on all of the DVI TiBooks?? I have one from around May (purchased within the first month of their release) which I could open up and look at when I get home. Provided it will be the correct one to check out.

[Wes]

If I remember correctly the slot for a second processor was only on the newest powerbooks, check the article I can't remember.

[jefhatfield]

since the second processor is not always on or being told to run, i could see this as a possibility for a tibook

but even if it does not run too hot, will it reduce battery time to an unacceptable level?

for example:

there is this pentium 4 pc laptop i saw reviewed with a 15" inch screen XGA res. running 64 MB DDR SDRAM video but the laptop only got 2 hours and 5 minutes on a standard test running word

this laptop got docked for its bad battery time and this shows that if you put too much horsepower into a mobile laptop, something will suffer and most likely it will be battery time

notice that there are no 128 MB video cards for laptops and 17" inch lcd screens yet?

also, a heavy laptop is not a good thing and packing everything into something that weighs less than six or seven pounds is not an easy thing to do

i do hope to eventually see a dualie tibook as prices for mobile processors come down and parts and components are increasingly miniaturized

[Geert]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
Is this alteration supposed to be on just the very latest shipments of the TiBook or on all of the DVI TiBooks?? I have one from around May (purchased within the first month of their release) which I could open up and look at when I get home. Provided it will be the correct one to check out.

Don't know, it just says Powerbook G4 800.
So technically yours is ....
But hey, don't blame me if things get screwed up. ;)

[arn]

I saw this newsitem...

seems very unlikely...

arn

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
since the second processor is not always on or being told to run, i could see this as a possibility for a tibook

but even if it does not run too hot, will it reduce battery time to an unacceptable level?
I would imagine if there were a DP TiBook there would be an option to switch off the second processor when using the battery (or whenever). I don't think it would be too unrealistic to espect a little CPU icon right in the menu bar next to the clock and the battery life indicators. "Multiprocessing on, multiprocessing off!"

If OS X doesn't support this, there's always processor cycling and speed reduction. I'm sure there would be a way to work dual processors into a TiBook while keeping battery life and heat at an acceptable level.
also, a heavy laptop is not a good thing and packing everything into something that weighs less than six or seven pounds is not an easy thing to do
I don't think a second processor would add much weight. I haven't seen the insides of an Apollo TiBook, but the 550MHz 7440 in the rev B is quite small and has to weigh well under 100 grams. (Not too familiar with either the metric OR the customary system when dealing with small weights, sorry :))

Or small masses, what-the-****-ever. :)

[tjwett]

the processor in the TiBooks has a heatsink and pipes completely covering it and going all over the place. even if there was space for a new processor, which there isn't, how do they intend to cool it? have you ever looked inside a TiBook? there is VERY little room for anything at all, surely not enough for another processor. i think the guy who made the "discovery" doesn't know what he is looking at. or he's just making it up.

[jefhatfield]

too bad

i don't know of any pcs out there with two processors in a laptop

battery mode could very well be set up to turn off the second processor and have it automatically kick in with the ac connection

and having a manual override of the default could be a great option, too...kind of like speedstep or powernow technologies on the pcs

[bousozoku]

Considering my dual 800 MHz PowerMac and the 2.5 inch or so fan, connected to the 3 inch heatsink over the processors, I think it's hard to believe they'll be using two processors in a PowerBook any time soon.

Think of the battery they could use in such a machine. Even with the drain of two processors, they could still have 12-15 hours of battery life. :D

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by tjwett
the processor in the TiBooks has a heatsink and pipes completely covering it and going all over the place. even if there was space for a new processor, which there isn't, how do they intend to cool it? have you ever looked inside a TiBook? there is VERY little room for anything at all, surely not enough for another processor. i think the guy who made the "discovery" doesn't know what he is looking at. or he's just making it up.
You have a 550MHz TiBook, right? Or was that someone else? On my 550, there is a 3/4" x roughly 3.5" gap of empty space at the rear of the combo drive. I'm not sure if that's been eliminated on the rev Cs, but the CPU is only about 1" x 1" anyway. With dual fans or liquid cooling I'm sure a DP TiBook would be possible, not least in terms of space. Would there be some retooling of the motherboard design required? Probably.

Alex

[Joshlew]

It COULD be done, there's little doubt about that, but how much extra cooling
equipment would you need?

And what what happen to the price?

And what what happen to the weight?

And what what happen to the battery life?

And would the TiBook become thicker?

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by Joshlew
It COULD be done, there's little doubt about that, but how much extra cooling
equipment would you need?

And what what happen to the price?

And what what happen to the weight?

And what what happen to the battery life?

And would the TiBook become thicker?
1 - I dunno
2 - Way up :)
3 - Not more difference than adding an AirPort card
4 - Depends whether or not you'd be able to switch the 2nd CPU off
5 - I doubt it

There aren't any dual PC notebooks out there. There really isn't much likelihood of them either because of battery life and heat issues. If Apple could step up and deliver an SMP notebook, it would sell very well even if it cost $4500 because nobody else offers anything like that - Apple would have the high-high-end notebook market all to itself. MARGINS!

[funkywhat2]

margins are good.......does anyone have a pic?

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Joshlew
It COULD be done, there's little doubt about that, but how much extra cooling
equipment would you need?

And what what happen to the price?

And what what happen to the weight?

And what what happen to the battery life?

And would the TiBook become thicker?

the price of the dualie will initially be TOO HIGH

the wieght will stay under seven pounds so that's still ok

battery life will go way down if both processors will be used, but how many things make both run full bore?

ti is so thin now, a little thicker won't really hurt it any

apple has not done anything "super" revolutionary in a BIG WAY since the 1998 imac...form and price and design all at once

a dualie ti would be just as big in a hardware sense but due to price, it wouldn't sell like the original imac

but laptop and mobile computing magazines would go nuts...they already love the tibook, usually 4 out of 5 stars, and it tops many lists for best portable

a dualie would also rank very high and if apple somehow got that thing over dual 1 ghz and under three grand, it would get that coveted five star rating in a pc magazine

[Arcady]

Anyone remember when MOSR was claiming that some people got TiBooks returned from Apple Service with combo drives in them? (this was way before the combo drive was offered.) They never had any proof, pics, or anything to back up the claim.

If someone has a PowerBook with dual cpu sockets (the current logic board has a soldered CPU - there is no socket) then why not take a pic and post it. Apple cannot remove a picture of a currently shipped product, even if it was a mistake.

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
Is this alteration supposed to be on just the very latest shipments of the TiBook or on all of the DVI TiBooks?? I have one from around May (purchased within the first month of their release) which I could open up and look at when I get home. Provided it will be the correct one to check out.
Are you home yet, slowy?

[cb911]

yeah, come on AlphaTech! i wanna see this!

[Screamingbeaver]

We are waiting..... We gotsta gotsta know!

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Screamingbeaver
We are waiting..... We gotsta gotsta know!

whether they have it now or in two years or later, i don't care too much

i just want to see apple put one out and be the "first" dualie laptop

battery times and laptop form factor and weight can improve with each successive model

the g4 is dual -"able"

[tjwett]

Originally posted by alex_ant

You have a 550MHz TiBook, right? Or was that someone else? On my 550, there is a 3/4" x roughly 3.5" gap of empty space at the rear of the combo drive. I'm not sure if that's been eliminated on the rev Cs, but the CPU is only about 1" x 1" anyway. With dual fans or liquid cooling I'm sure a DP TiBook would be possible, not least in terms of space. Would there be some retooling of the motherboard design required? Probably.

Alex

keyboard is off and i'm looking into my 550 right now and i don't see the empty space behind the optical drive. the first thing to the rear of the drive is he ribbon cable for the keyboard and beyond that there is a area the size you described but it's occupied with various diodes, conductors, and other electronic thingys i know nothing about. i still don't see another proc fitting in here. let me know if i'm looking in the wrong place. i want to see this before i ship this thing away soon.

[Geert]

yeah, come on AlphaTech! i wanna see this!

I think he slipped with his screwdriver, it has been two days since he replied to the topic here. :D

Surely hope that that is not the case Alpha, it would hurt me to see a Tibook 800 got wasted. :eek: :D

[bwanabob]

Why waste precious space, when it is possible to build a dual-core processor chip? That way, cooling, circuitry, etc, isn't increased nearly as much in the PB design.

Hell, with dual core chips, and the existing free space, you could have a quad proc TiPB. (If you had an asbestos lined pair of pants to put your "laptop" on.)

bwanabob..

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by bwanabob
Why waste precious space, when it is possible to build a dual-core processor chip? That way, cooling, circuitry, etc, isn't increased nearly as much in the PB design.

Hell, with dual core chips, and the existing free space, you could have a quad proc TiPB. (If you had an asbestos lined pair of pants to put your "laptop" on.)

bwanabob..

but i like the heat, it soothes the hemorroids

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by tjwett
keyboard is off and i'm looking into my 550 right now and i don't see the empty space behind the optical drive. the first thing to the rear of the drive is he ribbon cable for the keyboard and beyond that there is a area the size you described but it's occupied with various diodes, conductors, and other electronic thingys i know nothing about. i still don't see another proc fitting in here. let me know if i'm looking in the wrong place. i want to see this before i ship this thing away soon.
The space might only apply in the combo drive model (if that's not what you have). Here's a pic of the inside of my 550:

[bwanabob]

That space in the picture is from the size reduction of the DVD/CD-ROM drive. On my TiPB, the drive fills that space entirely.

Bwanabob..

[alex_ant]

What model of TiBook do you have?

[funkywhat2]

thats not big enough for a processor. thats big enough for, like, a roll of quarters.

[alex_ant]

I'm not saying they should put the second CPU behind the combo drive... I'm saying that if they moved some motherboard electronics to that area they might be able to find room for a second CPU elsewhere on the board.

This gap might not exist in the rev Cs, though. Anyone else want to share their pics?

[job]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
but i like the heat, it soothes the hemorroids

Ehmm.....what the f00k? :D

[mnkeybsness]

i think this thread is about trying too hard to come up with a real rumor...oh look! there's some empty space in my powermac tower....maybe apple is going to put in 8 more processors

[tjwett]

Originally posted by alex_ant

The space might only apply in the combo drive model (if that's not what you have). Here's a pic of the inside of my 550:

i have the DVD drive and it goes back all the way. weird. i guess the combos are smaller. oh well.

[AlphaTech]

My 800MHz TiBook doesn't have any space in that area. Everything inside the TiBook is really packed in there (no free space).

BTW, I have the combo drive inside the TiBook (came that way) so they are not smaller. I suspect some photoshop work was involved in the picture showing a gap between the optical drive and the keyboard attachment.

[chibianh]

here's a pic of the tibook rev C innards to confirm alpha's post. Sorry for the bad quality pic

[AlphaTech]

Thanks chibianh, I don't have a digital camera, with no plans to purchase one either. Which makes it difficult to post pictures up fast. :D

[chibianh]

np Alpha.. a digicam comes in handy. Every since I got it along with my tibook, I haven't used a camera that uses conventional film. Ordering prints with iphohto is sweet, too. If taken at a high enough resolution, the prints are comparable to regular prints. I like.. :)

btw, the pic above with the space behind the combo isn't photoshopped.. I checked my brother's ti550 and it has that space also.

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
My 800MHz TiBook doesn't have any space in that area. Everything inside the TiBook is really packed in there (no free space).

BTW, I have the combo drive inside the TiBook (came that way) so they are not smaller. I suspect some photoshop work was involved in the picture showing a gap between the optical drive and the keyboard attachment.
I don't even have Photoshop. The gap is definitely there. But as chibianh shows, it's apparently gone now. Oh well. Mine was one of the first combo drive models - I ordered mine with the DVD drive, two days before the combo drives came out, and Apple gave me a combo drive model free because the DVD models were discontinued. So that would explain the gap - not enough time to redesign the innards.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by alex_ant
I don't even have Photoshop. The gap is definitely there. But as chibianh shows, it's apparently gone now. Oh well. Mine was one of the first combo drive models - I ordered mine with the DVD drive, two days before the combo drives came out, and Apple gave me a combo drive model free because the DVD models were discontinued. So that would explain the gap - not enough time to redesign the innards.

Having a second person confirm definiately helps the point... I didn't have a rev. b TiBook (went from rev. a to rev. c) and haven't seen the innards of one either.

[DakotaGuy]

Hey you know what would be really cool, is if they did add a second processor and then put groves and a lid on the bottom, you could flip it over and presto, A George Forman Grill!!! (okay I know my humor needs work)hehe

[rice_web]

What if the second processor was added... vertically?

In other words, what if they stacked the two?

[job]

If you stacked them vertically, wouldn't the heat from the one below mess with one on top?

I dunno really since I'm not a hardware expert...

[AlphaTech]

There is a reason that all multi-cpu systems don't stack them up. Besides heat, there are pipelines to consider. Apple does place the dual processors close to each other (on the same processor card). Just look at some of the peecee DP motherboards. The chip slots are at least an inch or two away from each other, with heat sinks and fans for each.

You would have more then a grill with the second processor in a TiBook, you would have a heat welder. :eek: :D

[rEd Eye]

Well I don't know about anyone else,but I would be all over a 25-30lb "briefcase sized powerbook with a 19" screen,dual processors,PCI Slots,lifesize components and 10 pounds of that weight being batteries that would last for 15+ hours.I don't need to use a computer on a plane,I need a hefty robust powerhouse that I can fold up and drag to a gig or whatever.All this obsession over compact and light really does nothing for the professional mac user that only needs one thing....PORTABLE!I've pondered this as much as to wonder if it would be at all possible to do some sort of extreme modification like this to my tower?I guess I must be the oddball in the crowd,but dammit I would buy such a machine in a hurry!

[jefhatfield]

heat is not an issue as it relates to being too hot for the components that it may somehow damage them

but where heat comes into play is where it means it is soaking up the battery time

if this were a pc board and we were talking about a dualie laptop with two and a half hours battery time, we would all be at the store right now buying it

but since this is a mac we are talking about, a tibook with dual processors and only two and a half hours of battery time would appall us and would not sell since we are used to four and five hour battery times

miniaturize the micron process to yield less heat and then we are easily talking about a dual g4 tibook with at least four or five hours...the current g4 chip may soak up the battery if used in dual mode

however, there is the new lithium polymer battery which can easily handle the power consumption but we don't have that for any mac laptops yet

maybe, like someone said, have the dual tibook only run the second processor when it's plugged in....but that would defeat the purpose of the mobility characteristic of a laptop advertising dual processor capability

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by rEd Eye
Well I don't know about anyone else,but I would be all over a 25-30lb "briefcase sized powerbook with a 19" screen,dual processors,PCI Slots,lifesize components and 10 pounds of that weight being batteries that would last for 15+ hours.I don't need to use a computer on a plane,I need a hefty robust powerhouse that I can fold up and drag to a gig or whatever.All this obsession over compact and light really does nothing for the professional mac user that only needs one thing....PORTABLE!I've pondered this as much as to wonder if it would be at all possible to do some sort of extreme modification like this to my tower?I guess I must be the oddball in the crowd,but dammit I would buy such a machine in a hurry!

have an external battery source that is portable yet rechargeable...but that thing would probably weigh fifteen to twenty pounds

being an ex club musician for many years, fifteen pounds here and there is nothing when compared to lugging around seventy five pound speaker cabinets, forty pound amplifiers, and oodles of instuments, mikes, patch cords, effects, and other junk

of course at a gig you will have ac power...just bring something sturdy like an emac or crt imac or even a g4 with a sturdy crt monitor

i would never bring a laptop or lcd to some gigs i have been to...some idiot would break it

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by rEd Eye
Well I don't know about anyone else,but I would be all over a 25-30lb "briefcase sized powerbook with a 19" screen,dual processors,PCI Slots,lifesize components and 10 pounds of that weight being batteries that would last for 15+ hours.I don't need to use a computer on a plane,I need a hefty robust powerhouse that I can fold up and drag to a gig or whatever.All this obsession over compact and light really does nothing for the professional mac user that only needs one thing....PORTABLE!I've pondered this as much as to wonder if it would be at all possible to do some sort of extreme modification like this to my tower?I guess I must be the oddball in the crowd,but dammit I would buy such a machine in a hurry!

25-30lbs (and all the other 'features' you listed) goes against everything that a laptop computer is. If you want to lug around a system, just get a carry strap setup (there are computer places that sell them for people to take their systems to LAN parties). :rolleyes: Or, just get a new tower, LCD screen and set it all up on the power grid.

BTW, the Mac towers are semi-portable as it stands. With the two handles on top it's not difficult at all to carry one. You can even carry it around by one of the handles (I have done it). I haven't looked at the new Apple LCD screens, but I seem to remember handles on the previous generation of them.

Yes, you ARE an oddball wanting a monster 'portable' computer like that. Especially since Apple pretty much has what you want in their tower (or eMac as suggested in jefhornyfield's post :eek: ;)).

[eirik]

I believe the latest and greatest PB suffers a major bottleneck between the main memory and the CPU. If so, does that not mean that your dual CPU's would choke the bottleneck faster than a single CPU and yield little performance improvement.

I don't think we'll see a dual PB until at least we have a faster bus and faster RAM.

But, even then, as so many posts have already stated: the heat and battery-life issues would be profound without some kind of super duper heat sink that is integrated with the casing or something (wild idea) and a much improved battery.

A second CPU in a PB this year? Stop the madness!!! Remember, Soylent Green is made of people!!!!!!

Eirik

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by eirik
I believe the latest and greatest PB suffers a major bottleneck between the main memory and the CPU. If so, does that not mean that your dual CPU's would choke the bottleneck faster than a single CPU and yield little performance improvement.

Unless you actually have one of the new TiBooks (rev. c) you have no clue. The L3 cache more then makes up for any kind of bottleneck between the memory and cpu. :rolleyes: ya nit. :p

[eirik]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


Unless you actually have one of the new TiBooks (rev. c) you have no clue. The L3 cache more then makes up for any kind of bottleneck between the memory and cpu. :rolleyes: ya nit. :p

I can see how L3 can speed up the 'snappiness' of the system for relatively (w.r.t. L3 size) small operations. But, how would an operation that significantly exceeds the size of the L3 cache, such as a large rendering, benefit from increased L3 cache, when ultimately the data in the main memory has to get to the CPU to be processed?

So, if rendering and other massive data processing applications are really the only PRACTICAL reason for employing dual processors, and if large L3 cache, in lieu of a fast FSB, fails to help massive data processing applications, why get a dual PB?

Eirik

[alex_ant]

Presumably a DP TiBook would have DDR running at a decent speed. I think DDR in the next round of TiBooks will be likely.

[rEd Eye]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


25-30lbs (and all the other 'features' you listed) goes against everything that a laptop computer is. If you want to lug around a system, just get a carry strap setup (there are computer places that sell them for people to take their systems to LAN parties). :rolleyes: Or, just get a new tower, LCD screen and set it all up on the power grid.


Yes, you ARE an oddball wanting a monster 'portable' computer like that. Especially since Apple pretty much has what you want in their tower (or eMac as suggested in jefhornyfield's post :eek: ;)).

There is a big difference between being able to carry a computer somewhere,and being able to use a computer almost anywhere,quickly and effortlessly,without damaging it because it accidently rolled out the back of a truck!
Would you buy a Dual Ghz Quicksilver G4 that had every feature a tower had,only it was built into a oversize powerbook style,ran on batteries,and all packing it up to take somewhere meant was to close the 19" screen and disconnect the peripherals?Sure,I can move my tower and 19" Sony Trinitron around,but add a UPS and a 120 lb marine battery to that and things get a little less than practical!
The only real reason I can see for not manufacturing a "jumbo" portable,is that it would completely cannibalize both notebook and desktop sales by providing the best of both worlds in one unit,and therefore making owning one of each quite uneccessary to most people.
Someone will do it someday,then I will buy it,even if it's a.....PeeCee!

Sorry,kind of off topic,I know.
Back to the world of squeezing it all into an ultra thin CD case,and pondering as to where to squeeze in the last 40 of the 347,986,943,012 transistors.....

[jefhatfield]

i guess by now some serious pro users who were g4 desktop bound got tibooks and found they had their needs met quite nicely

[iGav]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
i guess by now some serious pro users who were g4 desktop bound got tibooks and found they had their needs met quite nicely

Yeah totally....... I was desktop bound for so long....... then I had a company Pismo, and it totally changed the way I worked..... even more so since I bought the TiBook.......

That said I will be buying a tower along with a new PowerBook in Feb....... I'll let the tower take the strain though.........

But I just couldn't live without a PowerBook anymore........ truely an oblect that has changed my life...... :)

Oh to the thread on track...... I'd love a dual TiBook...... it'd totally rock my my world....... :D

[chills]

"The L3 cache more then makes up for any kind of bottleneck between the memory and cpu. ya nit. "

This is not true. Try rendering a million polygon scene in a 3D program and tell me if that is true. With out DDR any data that has to be cached over 100MB will be dramatically slower without DDR. L2&L3 cache is more important in delivering small amounts of data and dealing with speeding up the OS.

Chills

[Huked on Fonick]

Cnet had an article latly about oversized PEECEE Laptops there like 15 pounds.(dont have the link) The last one they talked aboutwas a toshiba. The comapies that sell them claim there desktop replacements.... What they really are is Laptops with a non mobile version of the processor(then use a P-4 not a P-4M)........ And to supply the power to this processor they have a huge amount of ram and because they are grenarlly bigger have a bigger screen.... O yea the new toshiba has a bult in wireless keyboard that snaps out and can go 4 feet away fro mthe computer... I think that DUDE YOUR GETTING A DULL is starting to make some of there clunkers like this(it would probably make them SMALLER).. I guess who ever it was that asked for a BIG laptop... there out there and there pretty reasonanle and powerful for the price... If what u want is a big ugly thing u got it.....

One of my teachers reasonaly got a Dull with the non mobile P-3 in it at like 1.2 GHZ. The Thing has 2 CDROM DRIVES... who the hell would put 2 cdrom drives in a LAPTOP must be a pc thing. its has has a 15 inch screen 256 megs of ram.. weight in at aroung 10 pounds has 2 fans, is about 2 inches think...has 3 hours(barly) of battery life(can only play like 1/2 a dvd)..... he got all this power and bigness for the low low price of 1,500........(it looks like my dads dell he got in 94). Again ur ultra big-n-heavy laptops are outthere.. but i will stick to my 12.1 inch ibook thank you very much(um i would be happy if it was like 10 or 11). its the same size as my textbooks so all i do is put it in its slip and thow it into my bag......i went to circet city today and they dident have one PC laptop that was the size of my ibook with anynear as much battry... the 1 they did have was from SONY..... it had 31/2 hours of battery but NO CDROM DRIVE that required a Dock???yea ok.......oh yes and i really enjoyed playing with the emachines i have never actully seen one that workd:)


Well i am gona go watch a movie with my battery now cuz,,,, since i am useing a SMALL apple i can do that.... .rather than a 15 pound clunker that cant.....

[Royal Pineapple]

Originally posted by Huked on Fonick
Cnet had an article latly about oversized PEECEE Laptops there like 15 pounds.(dont have the link) The last one they talked aboutwas a toshiba. The comapies that sell them claim there desktop replacements.... What they really are is Laptops with a non mobile version of the processor(then use a P-4 not a P-4M)........ And to supply the power to this processor they have a huge amount of ram and because they are grenarlly bigger have a bigger screen.... O yea the new toshiba has a bult in wireless keyboard that snaps out and can go 4 feet away fro mthe computer... I think that DUDE YOUR GETTING A DULL is starting to make some of there clunkers like this(it would probably make them SMALLER).. I guess who ever it was that asked for a BIG laptop... there out there and there pretty reasonanle and powerful for the price... If what u want is a big ugly thing u got it.....

One of my teachers reasonaly got a Dull with the non mobile P-3 in it at like 1.2 GHZ. The Thing has 2 CDROM DRIVES... who the hell would put 2 cdrom drives in a LAPTOP must be a pc thing. its has has a 15 inch screen 256 megs of ram.. weight in at aroung 10 pounds has 2 fans, is about 2 inches think...has 3 hours(barly) of battery life(can only play like 1/2 a dvd)..... he got all this power and bigness for the low low price of 1,500........(it looks like my dads dell he got in 94). Again ur ultra big-n-heavy laptops are outthere.. but i will stick to my 12.1 inch ibook thank you very much(um i would be happy if it was like 10 or 11). its the same size as my textbooks so all i do is put it in its slip and thow it into my bag......i went to circet city today and they dident have one PC laptop that was the size of my ibook with anynear as much battry... the 1 they did have was from SONY..... it had 31/2 hours of battery but NO CDROM DRIVE that required a Dock???yea ok.......oh yes and i really enjoyed playing with the emachines i have never actully seen one that workd:)


Well i am gona go watch a movie with my battery now cuz,,,, since i am useing a SMALL apple i can do that.... .rather than a 15 pound clunker that cant.....
Wow that was one hell of a rant for a newbie ;)
i aggree, big laptops are horriable, i for one will always love the 12.1" ibook 2001-2002.
TC's HUGE LAPTOP also gets hot enough to melt the cheep wood finish on his desk too, you forgot to mention that;)
have fun with your movie.
-royal