AT&T and Verizon Drop Lawsuits Over Ad Campaigns

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/02/atandt-and-verizon-drop-lawsuits-over-ad-campaigns/)

Dow Jones Newswires reports (http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091202-709208.html) in a brief note that AT&T's lawsuit against Verizon regarding Verizon's recent ad campaigns (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/03/atandt-files-complaint-against-verizon-over-3g-coverage-map-commercials/) targeting AT&T's 3G coverage has been dismissed.AT&T Inc. (T) on Wednesday dismissed its lawsuit against Verizon Wireless and its recent "There's A Map For That" campaign.

AT&T had already suffered a legal setback when a judge rejected its request to pull the ads last month, which the Dallas carrier argued inaccurately suggested inferior network coverage. The court ruled that Verizon Wireless's ads, which showed maps comparing coverage, clearly talked about third-generation, or 3G, coverage.The court's rejection (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/19/atandt-faces-initial-setback-in-verizon-ad-spat-rolls-out-response-ad/) of AT&T's request for a restraining order barring Verizon from airing ads using map-based comparisons of 3G coverage had slated a December 16th date for arguments in the suit, but AT&T has apparently decided not to pursue legal remedy regarding this issue.

Digital Daily also reports (http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20091202/court-dimisses-atts-lawsuit-against-verizon/) that Verizon has dropped a related lawsuit against AT&T, suggesting that the two companies may have come to a mutual agreement to drop their legal battle in what has been seen by many as a waste of time and money and a generator of bad publicity for the companies.

Article Link: AT&T and Verizon Drop Lawsuits Over Ad Campaigns (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/02/atandt-and-verizon-drop-lawsuits-over-ad-campaigns/)

[Pared]

Man I really enjoyed all the mud-slinging too.

[kdarling]

In related news, the new Droid ad putting down "Princess" phones is out:

'Should a phone be pretty?' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLDxv9ohH2s) ad on YouTube

Basically, we have the light music, joy-joy ads for the iPhone from West coast company Apple... versus the grittier Droid ads from the New York / New Jersey tough-guys+gals company Verizon.

It's all so much fun to watch. Just a few years ago, we'd have never seen this much publicity for smartphones. Love it. Thanks Apple!

[bbplayer5]

Owned :)

Droid ftw! Now bring the iPhone to Verizon and be done with it!

[Ted13]

AT&T needs to fire a few lawyers and spend every penny on improving its network ASAP. That is the only way to shut up its critics, Verizon included.

[MacManUI]

This news came just moments after I posted the suggestion on AT&T's Facebook page...coincidence? Definitely. Now, for the love of Pete, could they use that lawsuit money to make their 3G map actually be as good as Verizon's? :rolleyes:

[idea_hamster]

Methinks AT&T's most recent huge, embarrassing failure (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/12/01/consumer-reports-finds-u-s-cell-phone-service-providers-lacking/) at the hands of Consumer Reports may have played a part.

I think it's unlikely that they had no idea that was on its way.

Maybe now AT&T will get back to the business of trying to provide basic voice to their NYC market.... :rolleyes:

[Compile 'em all]

Serves them right. Verizon is clearly copying Apple
"Theres a map for that" "Theres an app for that"
hmm...sounds familiar :eek:

Copying? The very purpose of the phrase "there is a map for that" was to mock the "app for that" Apple one. So of course it sounds similar. It is supposed to.

[antdfsc]

Is it just a coincidence that I just started getting 3G coverage near my house? I had little to no reception since moving this past year, and last week I had no data network available. Just as I was about to complain I found that I now have 3G service!

[Mattie Num Nums]

Hopefully all of this nonsense will help both sides get better. The iPhone has been relatively stagnant since it's debuted and all these competitors are coming out now and shaking up the market. Apple needs to turn the market upside down again. Right now Android 2.0 looks extremely promising.

[cmaier]

Serves them right. Verizon is clearly copying Apple
"Theres a map for that" "Theres an app for that"
hmm...sounds familiar :eek:

Of course they're copying. It's called satire. That's how satire is done. The ads only work if you realize they're copying.

I can only assume you are kidding.

[Rodimus Prime]

In related news, the new Droid ad putting down "Princess" phones is out:

'Should a phone be pretty?' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLDxv9ohH2s) ad on YouTube

Basically, we have the light music, joy-joy ads for the iPhone from West coast company Apple... versus the grittier Droid ads from the New York / New Jersey tough-guys+gals company Verizon.

It's all so much fun to watch. Just a few years ago, we'd have never seen this much publicity for smartphones. Love it. Thanks Apple!

I think that add is pretty funny and does make an intersting point which is not attacking apple but the industry as a whole.

Look at all the phones out there that took a very simular to design with smoot curves like apple and do everything they could to look pretty but offer nothing in real world use.
Way way to many phones take form over function time and time again. I see the droid that went function over form.

[johnmcboston]

AT&T needs to fire a few lawyers and spend every penny on improving its network ASAP. That is the only way to shut up its critics, Verizon included.

Agreed. Never mind the stupid Luke Wilson postcard commercial. is that what my monthly fees are really paying for? ugh....

[mccldwll]

Methinks AT&T's most recent huge, embarrassing failure (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/12/01/consumer-reports-finds-u-s-cell-phone-service-providers-lacking/) at the hands of Consumer Reports may have played a part.

I think it's unlikely that they had no idea that was on its way.

:


Hardly. It's an annual survey and AT&T has never fared very well.

[SomeTechGuy]

So this means we get to see more of Luke Wilson, right?

[carlgo]

The ads and lawsuits showed everyone how sucky their service is. This was a good public service. Now they are going to keep quiet, provide the same bad service, and make money without having to compete.

The agreement to stop the ads is simply collusion.

[p0intblank]

Thank God. It was like two little kids fighting back and forth...

[crackbookpro]

...don't mess with the best! :p

[extraextra]

In related news, the new Droid ad putting down "Princess" phones is out:

'Should a phone be pretty?' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLDxv9ohH2s) ad on YouTube

Basically, we have the light music, joy-joy ads for the iPhone from West coast company Apple... versus the grittier Droid ads from the New York / New Jersey tough-guys+gals company Verizon.

It's all so much fun to watch. Just a few years ago, we'd have never seen this much publicity for smartphones. Love it. Thanks Apple!

That ad is interesting. It didn't make me want to buy the phone though, or even spark my interest in the phone. A comparison of features would be a better ad (like the one from Sprint awhile back? At least tell me why your phone is supposedly better!). IMO as someone who texts a lot, this ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc57FHMAuus) is far more compelling. This comment on 1st vid is perfect I think:

"The ad sums it up perfectly. The feeling I get is that the droid is a rock. The iPhone is a diamond.


I prefer diamonds. "

[KaneBaker]

...don't mess with the best! :p

I think you are right AT&T won't mess with Verizon again.

[Rot'nApple]

Of course they're copying. It's called satire. That's how satire is done. The ads only work if you realize they're copying.

Kind of like had Verizon accepted Apple's terms for the iPhone and had not missed out and become the poor sports and sour losers they are, and still had to contend with the iPhone's success of making people want to surf the web and consume the bandwidth beyond what Verizon was capable of providing, and AT&T sans iPhone did a commercial with that Verizon guy in glasses, walking all over the place screaming "Can you hear me now?!, Can you hear me now?!, Pllleeeeaaaaasssseee, Can you Hear ME??????" (V-Guy starts to cry) and AT&T announcers smugly says, "It's the network.... Riiiiggghhhhttttt!" :rolleyes:

[soundbwoy]

In related news, the new Droid ad putting down "Princess" phones is out:

'Should a phone be pretty?' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLDxv9ohH2s) ad on YouTube

Basically, we have the light music, joy-joy ads for the iPhone from West coast company Apple... versus the grittier Droid ads from the New York / New Jersey tough-guys+gals company Verizon.

It's all so much fun to watch. Just a few years ago, we'd have never seen this much publicity for smartphones. Love it. Thanks Apple!

The fun thing is the Droid touts all it does yet I notice it doesn't do multi-touch or video recording or editing or a slew of other things. As per browsing faster via WiFi, it doesn't. Gee sure does a lot doesn't it?

[Rot'nApple]

...don't mess with the best! :p

Unless it involves math! :D

http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/

[GSMiller]

AT&T needs to fire a few lawyers and spend every penny on improving its network ASAP. That is the only way to shut up its critics, Verizon included.

Or better yet spend just a fraction of the cost of actually upgrading your network, and spend a few mil on ads trying to trick consumers.

Anyone noticed in the new AT&T commercial where he's standing on the giant map, he mentions everywhere AT&T has coverage, but not 3G coverage. All the while mentioning Verizon's map, which do show 3G coverage areas.

[lightpeak]

Owned :)

Droid ftw! Now bring the iPhone to Verizon and be done with it!

Apple Insider has it going to T-Mobile in 2010. ;) Suck on it, AT&T.

[lightpeak]

Agreed. Never mind the stupid Luke Wilson postcard commercial. is that what my monthly fees are really paying for? ugh....

Exactly. I had to turn my head in disgust to it. How stupid is that ad (rhetorical question).

[realeric]

http://cache.vzw.com/images_b2c/homepage/mapforthat.jpg


So, it is true?... :(

[cmcconkey]

Or better yet spend just a fraction of the cost of actually upgrading your network, and spend a few mil on ads trying to trick consumers.

Anyone noticed in the new AT&T commercial where he's standing on the giant map, he mentions everywhere AT&T has coverage, but not 3G coverage. All the while mentioning Verizon's map, which do show 3G coverage areas.

Yeah I caught that, I find it rather interesting that AT&T is doing to Verizon what they are "Crying Foul" on.

[budselectjr]

ATT's ads were just bs. Verizons ads showed 3g coverage while Att's maps showed 2g coverage. Ether in my opinion.

Or better yet spend just a fraction of the cost of actually upgrading your network, and spend a few mil on ads trying to trick consumers.

Anyone noticed in the new AT&T commercial where he's standing on the giant map, he mentions everywhere AT&T has coverage, but not 3G coverage. All the while mentioning Verizon's map, which do show 3G coverage areas.

Yeah, its so cheap to upgrade your network. lol.

[Prom1]

Thank God. It was like two little kids fighting back and forth...

Indeed, maybe AT&T realized that they need to fix & upgrade their network asap instead of pointing the finger for their poor service.

[jglavin]

The fun thing is the Droid touts all it does yet I notice it doesn't do [...] video recording[...]Yes it does.

[Bafflefish]

The fun thing is the Droid touts all it does yet I notice it doesn't do multi-touch or video recording or editing or a slew of other things. As per browsing faster via WiFi, it doesn't. Gee sure does a lot doesn't it?
The Droid hardware is capable of multi-touch (the European version of the Droid even has multi-touch support out of the box). The US version doesn't have it, but noone is saying why (a lot of the rumors revolve around Apple's patents on multitouch preventing it in the US). Anyway, there's an app that allows multitouch to work on the Droid:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/183390/android_answers_how_to_get_multitouch_browsing_on_droid.html

As someone else mentioned, it does do video recording, and as for video editing, well, "there's an app for that", too.

So not quite sure where you're getting your info.

[cumanzor]

Yes it does.

AFAIK, the US version doesn't have multitouch. The Motorola Milestone (EU version) does though.

Same thing for the HTC Hero. It's just a matter of patent bullying since both devices are capable of multi touch.

edit:bafflefish beat me to it.

[sysiphus]

Good. ATT provides an inferior product, and didn't like the fact that Verizon could make a compelling case against them using their own maps. Put up or shut up. Perhaps now they can put some of those legal dollars into network improvements (we can dream, right?)

[powers74]

Apple Insider has it going to T-Mobile in 2010. ;)

Man, that'd be nice for me.

[HLdan]

Hopefully all of this nonsense will help both sides get better. The iPhone has been relatively stagnant since it's debuted and all these competitors are coming out now and shaking up the market. Apple needs to turn the market upside down again. Right now Android 2.0 looks extremely promising.

It's not about the phones and what they do, it's about what they can do on the surface, it's about what they are capable of doing. The iPhone can be almost anything you want it to due to the App Store. The Droid and the other phones from Sprint and Verizon don't have an App Store, or at least one that big enough for anyone to care. Apple doesn't have to soup up the iPhone just because there are more players to the game.

Every year there that gadget that is suppose to be an iPod or iPhone killer, it has never happened.

[ChazUK]

AFAIK, the US version doesn't have multitouch. The Motorola Milestone (EU version) does though.

Same thing for the HTC Hero. It's just a matter of patent bullying since both devices are capable of multi touch.

edit:bafflefish beat me to it.

The droid does support multi-touch but it's up to the application developers to use it. An example of a multi-touch capable app on the Droid. (http://nexus404.com/Blog/2009/12/01/motorola-droid-gets-multitouch-browsing-dolphin-browser-brings-multitouch-to-the-droid/)

Strangely enough, The Motorola Milestone (GSM Droid) is supposed to have multi-touch throughout the phone, even on the Motorola supplied software.

[PeterQVenkman]

The droid's video recording is actually decent and pretty hi-res. the .3gp files it generated play fine in VLC.

720x480 video at a little less than 3mb/s, not too bad.

[numediaman]

The iPhone has been relatively stagnant since it's debuted and all these competitors are coming out now and shaking up the market. Apple needs to turn the market upside down again. Right now Android 2.0 looks extremely promising.

Yeah, those 100,000 apps are just a drop in the bucket compared to the millions upon millions of Droid apps. I used to see lots of iPhones out there, but it is now so old fashion, no one would be caught dead seen with an iPhone now-a-days. :rolleyes:

Of course, with 388 negative comments about Apple since you registered with the site, I shouldn't be surprised by your comment.

[mdmiles]

Those _____s at AT&T thought they could pull a fast one.

Instead of fixing their service so that the accurate exposure of their system's faults by competitors would have no ground, they decided to use deception and fraudulent legal claims to persuade the public and legal officials that their competitors are not being truthful and are not playing "fair".

Who in God's earth is advising these guys on what courses of action to take?

[*LTD*]

Hopefully all of this nonsense will help both sides get better. The iPhone has been relatively stagnant since it's debuted and all these competitors are coming out now and shaking up the market. Apple needs to turn the market upside down again. Right now Android 2.0 looks extremely promising.

Stagnant?

Nothing out there compares. And it's been two years. The 3GS was released in June. 100,000 apps already.

And the next iPhone is released, the competition will be sent back to the drawing board, as usual.

What competitors are "shaking up the market"? No-strategy Nokia, (face)Palm? RIM (LOL)? All we have now is the Droid, which is no iPhone.

The market is slowly expanding . . . with alot of garbage and another "iPhone killer" to add to the ever-growing pile. The shake-up already happened. It was in June 2007.

[dave1812dave]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/02/atandt-and-verizon-drop-lawsuits-over-ad-campaigns/)

Dow Jones Newswires reports (http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091202-709208.html) in a brief note that AT&T's lawsuit against Verizon regarding Verizon's recent ad campaigns (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/03/atandt-files-complaint-against-verizon-over-3g-coverage-map-commercials/) targeting AT&T's 3G coverage has been dismissed.The court's rejection (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/19/atandt-faces-initial-setback-in-verizon-ad-spat-rolls-out-response-ad/) of AT&T's request for a restraining order barring Verizon from airing ads using map-based comparisons of 3G coverage had slated a December 16th date for arguments in the suit, but AT&T has apparently decided not to pursue legal remedy regarding this issue.

Digital Daily also reports (http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20091202/court-dimisses-atts-lawsuit-against-verizon/) that Verizon has dropped a related lawsuit against AT&T, suggesting that the two companies may have come to a mutual agreement to drop their legal battle in what has been seen by many as a waste of time and money and a generator of bad publicity for the companies.

Article Link: AT&T and Verizon Drop Lawsuits Over Ad Campaigns (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/02/atandt-and-verizon-drop-lawsuits-over-ad-campaigns/)

AT&T finally figured out that the Verizon ads are not deceptive. Clowns! (AT&T)

[tuhoops]

The ads and lawsuits showed everyone how sucky their service is. This was a good public service. Now they are going to keep quiet, provide the same bad service, and make money without having to compete.

The agreement to stop the ads is simply collusion.

I don't believe there is an agreement to stop the ads...just an agreement to drop the lawsuits...

[tuhoops]

Stagnant?

Nothing out there compares. And it's been two years. The 3GS was released in June. 100,000 apps already.

And the next iPhone is released, the competition will be sent back to the drawing board, as usual.

What competitors are "shaking up the market"? No-strategy Nokia, (face)Palm? RIM (LOL)? All we have now is the Droid, which is no iPhone.

The market is slowly expanding . . . with alot of garbage and another "iPhone killer" to add to the ever-growing pile. The shake-up already happened. It was in June 2007.

Agreed. I still wonder what is next for the iPhone though. Faster processor? Higher res screen? Front facing camera? UI tweaks? I can't imagine using any other phone, and it's been that way since June 2007.

[cmaier]

The droid does support multi-touch but it's up to the application developers to use it. An example of a multi-touch capable app on the Droid. (http://nexus404.com/Blog/2009/12/01/motorola-droid-gets-multitouch-browsing-dolphin-browser-brings-multitouch-to-the-droid/)

Strangely enough, The Motorola Milestone (GSM Droid) is supposed to have multi-touch throughout the phone, even on the Motorola supplied software.

But if the built-in apps don't use it, that's a major problem. IIRC the on-screen keyboard isn't even multitouch, maps can't be pinch-zoomed, etc. (in the U.S.)

[ChazUK]

But if the built-in apps don't use it, that's a major problem. IIRC the on-screen keyboard isn't even multitouch, maps can't be pinch-zoomed, etc. (in the U.S.)

I agree that is a problem.

I just can not understand why multitouch isn't across the board with the Droid when the Milestone (and Android for that matter) both support the technology.

Perhaps it's an upgrade path they want to take, something like a newer, improved Droid (now with multitouch!). :)

[psukhu]

Why not just focus on the difference between CDMA and GSM, along with the actual 3G speeds of each technology?

For example, talk about how almost the world uses GSM and that you can use unlocked GSM phones from anywhere on AT&T.

[diamond.g]

Why not just focus on the difference between CDMA and GSM, along with the actual 3G speeds of each technology?

For example, talk about how almost the world uses GSM and that you can use unlocked GSM phones from anywhere on AT&T.

It is because some people are cheapskates and wont pay full price for an unlocked phone. Especially when they can get a locked iPhone for only 99 dollars...

[AidenShaw]

Yeah, those 100,000 apps are just a drop in the bucket compared to the millions upon millions of Droid apps....

.100,000 apps already.

LOL. Remember when Apple fans dismissed the stats that Windows had more applications with the "but the Apple apps are higher quality" line? Today is seems that "more fart apps" is an Apple advantage. How times change....


Why not just focus on the difference between CDMA and GSM,...

For example, talk about how almost the world uses GSM and that you can use unlocked GSM phones from anywhere on AT&T.

This is a geek argument - I'd wager that 99% of the people on the street wouldn't know if their phone is CDMA or GSM, and 98% wouldn't care. Business people who often travel internationally might care, but not the majority. Don't base an ad campaign on tech buzzwords that most of the audience won't understand.

Same thing with the "CDMA can't do data and voice at the same time" argument. Most people put the phone against their head to use the device as a phone, and hold it in front of themselves to do data. You won't convince these people that CDMA is broken.


Why not just focus on the difference between CDMA and GSM, along with the actual 3G speeds of each technology?

The last thing that AT&T wants to talk about is "actual" 3G speeds. They want to talk about theoretical speeds, not the speeds that their inadequate network delivers.

Being a Verizon customer, I know that my 3G speeds meet or beat my Iphone-using friends. And I can tether....

[*LTD*]

LOL. Remember when Apple fans dismissed the stats that Windows had more applications with the "but the Apple apps are higher quality" line? Today is seems that "more fart apps" is an Apple advantage. How times change....

it's 100,000 apps. On a handheld. Not a computer. That's a big deal. And all the highest quality apps of anyone's app store are on Apple's App Store.

Big difference.

[Xavier]

and the fun was only starting :(

[lightpeak]

it's 100,000 apps. On a handheld. Not a computer. That's a big deal. And all the highest quality apps of anyone's app store are on Apple's App Store.

Big difference.

Total fanboy statement unless you care about the quality scale of variations of fart apps. :rolleyes:

Face it, AidenShaw called you the carpets on this.

LOL. Remember when Apple fans dismissed the stats that Windows had more applications with the "but the Apple apps are higher quality" line? Today is seems that "more fart apps" is an Apple advantage. How times change....

[MorphingDragon]

This was sudden... I was hoping for a scrap. :p

[MizzouCowboy]

Owned :)

Droid ftw! Now bring the iPhone to Verizon and be done with it!

LMAO

[psukhu]

The last thing that AT&T wants to talk about is "actual" 3G speeds. They want to talk about theoretical speeds, not the speeds that their inadequate network delivers.

Being a Verizon customer, I know that my 3G speeds meet or beat my Iphone-using friends. And I can tether....

The iPhone 3G S uses HSDPA, which seems to be much faster than the latest version of EVDO.

HSPA+ (aka Evolved HSPA) seems be much faster than even HSDPA, which is being rolled out world wide right now by GSM carriers.

Of course, all of this will mean less when all carriers go to LTE.

[Rodimus Prime]

Stagnant?

Nothing out there compares. And it's been two years. The 3GS was released in June. 100,000 apps already.

And the next iPhone is released, the competition will be sent back to the drawing board, as usual.

What competitors are "shaking up the market"? No-strategy Nokia, (face)Palm? RIM (LOL)? All we have now is the Droid, which is no iPhone.

The market is slowly expanding . . . with alot of garbage and another "iPhone killer" to add to the ever-growing pile. The shake-up already happened. It was in June 2007.


what the hell are you talking about. Since the orginal iPhone was released there has been very little that has been added to the iPhone minus things it should of had on day 1.

Voice control (Should of been day 1)
3G - Should of been day 1.
MMS - Should of been day 1.

Upping processor, ram, and storage are minor and not a real feature.

The only thing I can think of is the App store and even in that department apple has not really added much since day one. The ratio to crap to good apps is only getting worse by the 2nd.

[cmaier]

what the hell are you talking about. Since the orginal iPhone was released there has been very little that has been added to the iPhone minus things it should of had on day 1.

Voice control (Should of been day 1)
3G - Should of been day 1.
MMS - Should of been day 1.

Upping processor, ram, and storage are minor and not a real feature.

The only thing I can think of is the App store and even in that department apple has not really added much since day one. The ratio to crap to good apps is only getting worse by the 2nd.

1) "should have"
2) The fact that all those things should've been there on day 1 doesn't mean they didn't represent major new features.

[Rodimus Prime]

1) "should have"
2) The fact that all those things should've been there on day 1 doesn't mean they didn't represent major new features.

but that is the point.
Since the iPhone all the so called "updates" are either minor (spec upgrade) or should of had day 1 updates. Since then the iPhone has add nothing new to the playing field. it was more pointed out the quote agrument the LTD put up saying when the next iPhone comes out everyone goes back to the drawing board. Fact of the matter is apple has add nothing really new but day 1 things.

[cmaier]

but that is the point.
Since the iPhone all the so called "updates" are either minor (spec upgrade) or should of had day 1 updates. Since then the iPhone has add nothing new to the playing field. it was more pointed out the quote agrument the LTD put up saying when the next iPhone comes out everyone goes back to the drawing board. Fact of the matter is apple has add nothing really new but day 1 things.

Again, the fact that these were "day 1 things" doesn't change the fact that the iphone today is a very different beast than was the original 2G iphone upon release, and that, even today, there still isn't an "iphone killer." The phone has changed enough to keep ahead of the competition, even if the changes SHOULD have been there from the start.

[farmboy]

This is a geek argument - I'd wager that 99% of the people on the street wouldn't know if their phone is CDMA or GSM, and 98% wouldn't care. Business people who often travel internationally might care, but not the majority. Don't base an ad campaign on tech buzzwords that most of the audience won't understand.

Being a Verizon customer, I know that my 3G speeds meet or beat my Iphone-using friends. And I can tether....

So what you're saying is that the whole "3G Network" thing that is the basis of Verizon's ads is completely wasted on at least 98% of the people. Ask anyone on the street what 3G really means--not one correct answer in 1000, I'd bet. Therefore ATT's response ads are good marketing because they show a wider network (no matter 2G or 3G).

As far as your 3G speeds, so what? It's not the same everywhere. And have you actually done an objective side-by-side comparison with your friend's iPhones and a stopwatch? I'm sure those half-seconds either way are going to really add up (yawn).

[cmaier]

So what you're saying is that the whole "3G Network" thing that is the basis of Verizon's ads is completely wasted on at least 98% of the people. Ask anyone on the street what 3G really means--not one correct answer in 1000, I'd bet.

Which is why most of them assume that AT&T phones just don't work in the blank parts of the map, which is why the ads are so effective.

[*LTD*]

but that is the point.
Since the iPhone all the so called "updates" are either minor (spec upgrade) or should of had day 1 updates. Since then the iPhone has add nothing new to the playing field. it was more pointed out the quote agrument the LTD put up saying when the next iPhone comes out everyone goes back to the drawing board. Fact of the matter is apple has add nothing really new but day 1 things.

And yet the competition still can't keep up, two years later, with the "stagnant" iPhone.

So what does that say about all these also-rans? Apple can, by your assertion, virtually cease development, and these fools still can't get their act together.

Even when Apple sits on their asses they're ahead. Apple has the "magic formula" of OS + hardware + App Store nailed. Even the also rans' best to date, the Droid, is no iPhone. EVERYTHING that is released is compared to the iPhone. That alone is your first clue that Apple's got the inside track when it comes to smartphones.

iPhone fanboyism is completely normal, because it's more than justfied. Of course the iPhone's got all the fans, and why shouldn't it? And accusing iPhone fans of fanboyism on an Apple fan site (as if it were some sort of anomaly) is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500.

[Rodimus Prime]

Again, the fact that these were "day 1 things" doesn't change the fact that the iphone today is a very different beast than was the original 2G iphone upon release, and that, even today, there still isn't an "iphone killer." The phone has changed enough to keep ahead of the competition, even if the changes SHOULD have been there from the start.


Did I say iPhone killer no.
But compared the 3GS to the 1G iPhone difference

Spec upgrade (minor and nothing new)

Added MMS -- about damn time but should of been on the 1G iphone on day 1.
Add Voice control. --- Again about damn time nothing new there. Lag compared to other phones.
3G--- again nothing new. 1G iPhone should of been 3G on day one. so yet another Lag update.

I was not comparing "iPhone killers" but the iPhone to itself. The iPhone has brought nothing new to the table. All the updates to the iPhone have been minor or should of had them on day 1.

[Rodimus Prime]

And yet the competition still can't keep up, two years later, with the "stgnant" iPhone.

So what does that say about all these also-rans? Apple can, by your assertion, virtually cease development, and these fools still can't get their act together.

Even when Apple sits on their asses they're ahead. Apple has the "magic formula" of OS + hardware + App Store nailed. Even the also rans' best to date, the Droid, is no iPhone. EVERYTHING that is released is compared to the iPhone. That alone is your first clue that Apple's got the inside track when it comes to smartphones.

iPhone fanboyism is completely normal, because it's more than justfied. Of course the iPhone's got all the fans, and why shouldn't it? And accusing iPhone fans of fanboyism on an Apple fan site (as if it were some sort of anomaly) is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500.


But here is what you are missing. Apple got a jump but just look at what has happen since the iPhone came out. Every new phone comes closer to taking some market share away and gets the closer to a good going. Apple has failed to move the goal post to beat and it does not seem likely that they will.
The driod is fairly popular and going pretty well. Droid really popular since it does not have the apple fanboys following it who would by "iCrap" like many apple fanboys would from apple.

[farmboy]

The last thing that AT&T wants to talk about is "actual" 3G speeds. They want to talk about theoretical speeds, not the speeds that their inadequate network delivers.
....

And yet you and a lot of others here constantly talk about specs on the computer side, when in most cases they are either irrelevant to, or completely dependent on other components, processes, and software, regarding the actual speed at which a computer performs tasks. It's ALL theoretical.

[heisetax]

When the iPod came out I thought this needed to be changed to iPod Rumors. Now with the iPhone for the past couple of years this site needs to be changed to iPhone Rumors.

Actually this AT&T - Verizon thing appears to more like a comedy club act than real life. But then a lawyer only means what they say when the judge agrees & it will hurt you. AT&T must not have such a large legal department as Apple does as they dropped the case before it went before the judge. Apple would have staid in it longer to keep their legal department extra busy. It is good to see that AT&T finally listened to the judge & also listened to Verizon's ad close enough to realize that it would lose its lawsuit big time.

[*LTD*]

Apple has failed to move the goal post to beat and it does not seem likely that they will.

Do you honestly believe this?

[Rodimus Prime]

Do you honestly believe this?

I do not suspect they will do any real changes to the iPhone for a while. What ever they come up with in this summer I suspect will be minor updates being mostly hardware updates in size.

Short of releasing a new phone like a iPhone nano it will be minor updates. The biggest thing I could see them doing is stepping away from ATT and releasing the iPhone on Verizon.

[wgilles]

I wonder if this has anything to do with AT&T being rated worst wireless carrier and Verizon being rated the best.........:confused:

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/60353

[bredlo]

It's a Christmas miracle!

God bless us... everyone!

[goobot]

I wonder if this has anything to do with AT&T being rated worst wireless carrier and Verizon being rated the best.........:confused:

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/60353

only people who hate att do those things its a fact

also the next iphone will most likely have a major upgrade due to them working on it since jan this year compared to the others being nov.

also i feel version was starting to loose it due to them using the same ad and just rewrapping it. and att was using different ads. also apple helped the attack. so i think version and att just agreed to give it up.


i feel that the iphone will not be on version due to att already having the phone, people who want the iphone already switched and are in contracts. version is only better in "maps" nothing else not to mention a lot of these "maps" have service where you do not need it. also att having so much money from the iphone and this attack from version will most likely upgrade their network to be bigger. and version plans just wouldnt work with the phone.


att is the best choice in my opinion, they shouldnt upgrade their networks till 4g comes out so they can roll out that with 3g on the same tower cheaper and quicker. till then suck it up:p

[twoodcc]

so i guess they'll just battle it out with ads then?

[numediaman]

Here's a suggestion for MacRumors: ban anyone who uses the term "fanboy".

I see way too many "newbies" here that use the term -- and when you look at their posts you realize 100% of them are negative.

Worse, even longer time users here are starting to be completely negative and describe anyone who has anything to say in defense of Apple or one of their products as a "fanboy". It's a substitute for a reasoned argument.

Macrumors is where I go for information, tips, and the occasional rumors. It is not where I go to work out the dramas of my life. Aren't there sites these people can go to get help?

[Rodimus Prime]

Here's a suggestion for MacRumors: ban anyone who uses the term "fanboy".

I see way too many "newbies" here that use the term -- and when you look at their posts you realize 100% of them are negative.

Worse, even longer time users here are starting to be completely negative and describe anyone who has anything to say in defense of Apple or one of their products as a "fanboy". It's a substitute for a reasoned argument.

Macrumors is where I go for information, tips, and the occasional rumors. It is not where I go to work out the dramas of my life. Aren't there sites these people can go to get help?


That goes to ways. You say anything remotely negive about apple around here you get label either an Apple Hater, or Troll. Take your pick.

We have some true apple fanboys around here and some of them are really bad.

[DakotaGuy]

That goes to ways. You say anything remotely negive about apple around here you get label either an Apple Hater, or Troll. Take your pick.

We have some true apple fanboys around here and some of them are really bad.

I agree with this. I have been on this site for a long time and I do like Apple products, but I understand there are other great products out there as well. Apple is not perfect and neither is any other company. I enjoy using my iMac and iPods, but I also enjoy using my Motorola Droid. When a company puts out a good product whether it be Mac OSX, iPod, Droid or even Windows 7 I will take a look at it and judge it on it's merits not on it's brand.

I think the biggest issue that people have is with the blind fanboys that put brand before anything else. No matter if the product is good or bad if it has an Apple logo it must be amazing. Apple has great products like the Mac, iPhone, iPod, but it also has also made it's share of mistakes over the years. One could also argue there is an "Apple tax" that one must pay when they choose an Apple product even though on the inside it is no different from the competition.

I like Apple, but I am not a blind follower that bases most of my buying decision on brand alone. I think the people who discredit other products based on brand alone should be labeled a fanboy. That is just my observation and opinion.

[Stately]

Should they really ever have started? I'ts obvious they just gave up because it's. . weeell . . true. Fixer-up time. ;)

[RazHyena]

Does this mean AT&T is snapping out of it and planning on making their network less craptacular? :eek:

Good news all around.

[DMann]

And yet you and a lot of others here constantly talk about specs on the computer side, when in most cases they are either irrelevant to, or completely dependent on other components, processes, and software, regarding the actual speed at which a computer performs tasks. It's ALL theoretical.

Perhaps it's because he's proven to be the biggest hypocrite on this forum, and not surprisingly, manages to surpass himself.

[seedster2]

I agree with this. I have been on this site for a long time and I do like Apple products, but I understand there are other great products out there as well. Apple is not perfect and neither is any other company. I enjoy using my iMac and iPods, but I also enjoy using my Motorola Droid. When a company puts out a good product whether it be Mac OSX, iPod, Droid or even Windows 7 I will take a look at it and judge it on it's merits not on it's brand.

I think the biggest issue that people have is with the blind fanboys that put brand before anything else. No matter if the product is good or bad if it has an Apple logo it must be amazing. Apple has great products like the Mac, iPhone, iPod, but it also has also made it's share of mistakes over the years. One could also argue there is an "Apple tax" that one must pay when they choose an Apple product even though on the inside it is no different from the competition.

I like Apple, but I am not a blind follower that bases most of my buying decision on brand alone. I think the people who discredit other products based on brand alone should be labeled a fanboy. That is just my observation and opinion.

Agreed.

I don't think anyone comes here expecting a Windows love fest. But it gets ridiculous reading some of (sometimes provoked) irrationally biased posts from the usual suspects. Giving credit to others besides Apple doesn't mean you love them any less.

I come here for tips and information but often times treated to apple haters or devout SJ cultists. (must be entertaining me though as I continue to read them)

[BlueRevolution]

I'm surprised nobody pointed out the other major development in the case today: it turns out that Verizon's AT&T map is actually being generous.

http://trueslant.com/marcflores/2009/12/02/att-3g-coverage-is-smaller-than-depicted-in-verizons-ads/

[DMann]

I'm surprised nobody pointed out the other major development in the case today: it turns out that Verizon's AT&T map is actually being generous.

http://trueslant.com/marcflores/2009/12/02/att-3g-coverage-is-smaller-than-depicted-in-verizons-ads/
There's nothing like being kissed before getting stabbed in the back.

[rdlink]

For example, talk about how almost the world uses GSM and that you can use unlocked GSM phones from anywhere on AT&T.

You can. But why? Unlocking of GSM phones is an AT&T escape hatch, not a means to subject yourself to their horrible customer service, network and pricing. The AT&T/Apple exclusivity agreement spawned a whole new unlocking industry. I can guarantee you wouldn't have seen the same amount of writhing to escape T-Mobile.

[rdlink]

Again, the fact that these were "day 1 things" doesn't change the fact that the iphone today is a very different beast than was the original 2G iphone upon release, and that, even today, there still isn't an "iphone killer." The phone has changed enough to keep ahead of the competition, even if the changes SHOULD have been there from the start.

His point (while somewhat lost in bad grammar and punctuation) is basically true. And your statement that Apple will stay "ahead" of the competition is absurd. The point of his statement is that the missing things that were not there on day 1 put the iPhone BEHIND the competition at the time. That's not to say that the INTERFACE of the iPhone, and the large web browser were not game changers. They were. But the competition is catching up on that front (some would say the Droid has surpassed Apple there).

But let's think objectively here. Apple released an expensive phone that didn't have many of the behind the scenes technical features of the competition. In the time since, they have released two more iterations of it, and many, many fanboys (please give me a better, more accurate word and I'll used it) have rushed out to replace their earlier versions, just so they can have the latest and greatest shiny little toy that Apple puts out. Don't blame Apple. They're smart enough to know their target demographics, and are taking it to the bank.

[*LTD*]

His point (while somewhat lost in bad grammar and punctuation) is basically true. And your statement that Apple will stay "ahead" of the competition is absurd. The point of his statement is that the missing things that were not there on day 1 put the iPhone BEHIND the competition at the time.

Which is why everyone and their dog were trying to copy it furiously, and still are?

The iPhone is the device that changed the entire smartphone game overnight. As a complete pacakge - OS + hardware, it was, and still is, unbeatable.

The whole "missing features" argument is bunk. The industry and consumers themselves have decided which features are important, and it's all about the OS, the apps, the overall user experience. Any POS phone can be crammed with "features."

[psukhu]

I do not suspect they will do any real changes to the iPhone for a while. What ever they come up with in this summer I suspect will be minor updates being mostly hardware updates in size.

Short of releasing a new phone like a iPhone nano it will be minor updates. The biggest thing I could see them doing is stepping away from ATT and releasing the iPhone on Verizon.

The current iPhone 3G S is HSDPA.

Many of the world's carriers are currently rolling out HSPA+ or have already rolled it out in 2009. Keep in mind the US is just a slice of the entire global market. Releasing a model compatible with these networks would be an upgrade.

Beyond HSPA+ is LTE. In the US, all of the CDMA carriers are making the leap to GSM by rolling out LTE. (Except for Sprint, which is sticking with WiMAX) AT&T is skipping HSPA+ and going directly to LTE. T-Mobile USA decided they can roll out HSPA+ instead of LTE, and charge less money to customers.

Will Verizon have LTE rolled out by summer 2010?

[eastcoastsurfer]

In the next commercial Verizon needs to pull out a new ATT slogan "More dropped calls in more places."

I made 7 phone calls yesterday and dropped 6 of them (multiple drops on 2 of them). I had full 5 bars of service and was stationary in my house. I think Verizon should attack ATT and the iPhone even more on service issues.

[Rot'nApple]

Just saw on MDN a story about phone apps...

Here's the link

http://www.daniweb.com/news/story243360.html

It's about porn apps. Apple restricts this on iPhone but Google's Android OS, possibly, not so much.

"One area it could make a difference though is in bandwidth usage. Currently the Android only consumes about 11% of mobile bandwidth compared to 50% for the iPhone. Start throwing porn into the mix and the Android could soon start eating up the bandwidth like it is going out of fashion."

Bottom line, when Droid users start downloading their porn, Verizon will have no map big enough to cover the bandwidth demand that could result. iPhone users bitching about AT&T's network will long for the day being with AT&T if this pans out to be true! :eek:

AT&T could then run a tv commercial touting their bandwidth ("fastest 3G) versus Verizon, everyone waiting for their adult movie to download, and AT&T can say, "AT&T has bandwidth. Verizon and Droid, doesn't! Verizon, "There's a Whack for that!" :D

[ChazUK]

Just saw on MDN a story about phone apps...

Here's the link

http://www.daniweb.com/news/story243360.html

It's about porn apps. Apple restricts this on iPhone but Google's Android OS, possibly, not so much.

"One area it could make a difference though is in bandwidth usage. Currently the Android only consumes about 11% of mobile bandwidth compared to 50% for the iPhone. Start throwing porn into the mix and the Android could soon start eating up the bandwidth like it is going out of fashion."

Bottom line, when Droid users start downloading their porn, Verizon will have no map big enough to cover the bandwidth demand that could result. iPhone users bitching about AT&T's network will long for the day being with AT&T if this pans out to be true! :eek:

AT&T could then run a tv commercial touting their bandwidth ("fastest 3G) versus Verizon, everyone waiting for their adult movie to download, and AT&T can say, "AT&T has bandwidth. Verizon and Droid, doesn't! Verizon, "There's a Whack for that!" :D
The iPhone already has acces to porn via Safari.
I don't see what that point that article is trying to make? There is probably more YouTube content viewed on both platforms than porn.

[Rodimus Prime]

The current iPhone 3G S is HSDPA.

Many of the world's carriers are currently rolling out HSPA+ or have already rolled it out in 2009. Keep in mind the US is just a slice of the entire global market. Releasing a model compatible with these networks would be an upgrade.

Beyond HSPA+ is LTE. In the US, all of the CDMA carriers are making the leap to GSM by rolling out LTE. (Except for Sprint, which is sticking with WiMAX) AT&T is skipping HSPA+ and going directly to LTE. T-Mobile USA decided they can roll out HSPA+ instead of LTE, and charge less money to customers.

Will Verizon have LTE rolled out by summer 2010?


And these post scream about the massive miss understanding of cellular network works.
3G, HSPA+, CDMA, Edge (Verizon/Sprint) will be around for decades to come. Reason being is upgrade that entire network will take a long time and cost more than likely in the trillions to complete world wide. This means that those older networks will be running for years to come.
Apple can not skip HSPA+ because it will be come like Edge is now. Covering all aspects of the world and LTE for the longest time be limited to only major cities.
The old anolog system used in the first cell phones lasted for a long time because the network was already in place for it and so phones could always fall back on to it. Hell my old Verizon phone in 2004 would be on the old anolog system for a fair part of my drive home from college. Killed the battery like no tomorrow but it would fall back onto that network during the middle of no where areas.
Right now 3G is speeds is over kill for almost everything but tethering because of the limited screen size and processing power of cell phones. That screen size will always be a factor in the lack of need for more speed.
Either way 3G will be around for a long time and phones will need to support it to even play ball.

[DakotaGuy]

In the US, all of the CDMA carriers are making the leap to GSM by rolling out LTE.

Verizon is not changing to GSM to go LTE. Voice will still be handled on their CDMA network, but data will be shifted from EVDO Rev. A to LTE as time goes on. Phones that run on Verizon's network will still be CDMA phones, but will handle data by using LTE.

[skeep5]

...in what has been seen by many as a waste of time and money and a generator of bad publicity for the companies.

Gee ya think?