Commercial attacks Kerry's military service.

[Stelliform]

A commercial (here) (http://www.swiftvets.com/) put out by an organization calling itself "Swift Boat Veterans for the truth" severely bash's Kerry's war record. The Democrats are threatening TV stations to try and keep the add off of he air. (Story Here) (http://www.talonnews.com/news/2004/august/0806_dems_threaten_networks.shtml)

For more than thirty years, most Vietnam veterans kept silent as we were maligned as misfits, addicts, and baby killers. Now that a key creator of that poisonous image is seeking the Presidency we have resolved to end our silence.

I don't think it is fair to just blame Kerry for the horrific treatment that veterans received when returning from Vietnam.

......

[SuperChuck]

Love your source.

If you actually read the letter, you would see that they are warning networks that several of the claims are libelous and that they would potentially be sued for damages.

Considering that the Boston Globe reported that George Elliot (one of the men responsible for the ad) stated "It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here," they may be right.

Warning a network of airing potentially libelous claims is a far cry from trying to stop the ad.

[Neserk]

You blame war protestors for the psychological damage done to Vietnam veterns??? ROFLMAO.... *brushes self off* That is funny, seriuosly. You don't think it could be that the damage was done by what went on when they were in Vietnam do you? Wouldn't *that* make a little more sense?

[sorryiwasdreami]

The Dems are calling Bush a liar when he is not

He isn't? Bush lied to the American people about having proof of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the reason why we are at war right now. People continue to die because he lied.

[Neserk]

He isn't? Bush lied to the American people about having proof of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the reason why we are at war right now. People continue to die because he lied.

Nope, he most definately is a liar. And not in the sense that all politicians lie...

[zimv20]

the swift boat vet commercial stuff has been discussed exhaustively, most recently starting on this page of this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=68656&page=4&pp=25)

[amnesiac1984]

(Sorry for the strong wording, and I am not condemning Kerry for what happened to veterans when the returned from Vietnam, but I personally know a few vets who were permanently messed up after Vietnam, and I blame the war protesters and no one else of that era for our veteran's mental anguish and trauma.)

Why not blame the idiots who sent them there in the first place? Blaming the war protestors is the msot ridiculous thing I've ever heard.


The Dems are calling Bush a liar when he is not,Interesting stuff.

he is.

[takao]

It doesn't matter if the war is a good war or a bad war.

it does

My wife's uncle was a navy seal. He has not worked a day since he returned from Vietnam. He still lives with his parents. Pictures of him before the war don't look like him. He has a zeal for life before. Now he just exists. My wife's father has only mentioned Vietnam a couple of times since he has returned. He usually gets upset when it is mentioned. Those are the two vets that I know personally. It would be more interesting if anyone else had experience on this.

one of my grandfathers escaped to switzerland before ww2
my other grandfather had the luck to meet my grandmother when coming back..that helped him ..a few years later he started his own business
her brother came back 1955 after 10 years of sibira as a person with neither enough will to live nor to die ... aka. completly broken..he died a few years later
even now my grand father doesn't talk much about the war ...too many friends lost for a bad thing

my parents were a generation who grew up without a war but with tales about a bad war

and yeah huge veteran organizations don't exist here...

[pseudobrit]

The people who sent them to war, did not spit on them when they returned.

Vets got a raw deal upon return.

The general populace did not welcome them back like they did troops after WWII, and some people did awful things to them.

My uncle had dog**** thrown at him at the airport.

[Taft]

My wife's uncle was a navy seal. He has not worked a day since he returned from Vietnam. He still lives with his parents. Pictures of him before the war don't look like him. He has a zeal for life before. Now he just exists. My wife's father has only mentioned Vietnam a couple of times since he has returned. He usually gets upset when it is mentioned. Those are the two vets that I know personally. It would be more interesting if anyone else had experience on this.

I'm sorry that your wife's uncle was effected so cruelly by the experience.

One question though: why do you assume that his trauma was caused by the protesters? SOME protesters of that era certainly said some harsh things, but the majority were protesting the war not the soldiers.

Further, EVERY Vietnam vet I know who has trauma from the war was effected by the war itself, not the protesters. My dad was prime age for drafting during the war (he didn't get drafted), so many of his friends were there. As an example, one of them was a medical helicopter pilot assigned to do emergency pickups during combat situations. He saw and experienced some very horrible things and has had certain eccenttricities and episodes ever since.

It seems to me that you are using the protesters as a scapegoat for the horrible experiences of war.

Taft

[IJ Reilly]

Some opponents of the war did blame the men who served, but this was a small minority, a fringe element. Kerry certainly was not among them. The vast majority of war opponents just wanted our government to tell the truth about the war, to end the draft, and to get us out of Vietnam.

The returning vets were not treated as returning heros by in large, but this wasn't so much a function of the way people felt about them, but how the nation felt about our involvement in Vietnam, about being lied to by the government about the war, and sense of national disgrace over the way it was conducted. A feeling of betrayal was felt by many in the country, and not least of all, those who served.

I think those who supported the war, and volunteered to serve, felt the deepest sense disillusionment. Some turned their outrage towards the government (as Kerry did). Others blamed the opponents of the war. I believe it was the latter who had the most difficulty adjusting to the war's unsatisfying conclusion. They did, and probably will continue to, blame the American public -- which in the end, turned against the war, once the truth the government had tried so hard to hide became known.

[pseudobrit]

I doubt that many Vietnam vets had that kind of return home.

So it's the smaller percentage of Americans who protested who are responsible for the larger percentage who didn't not welcoming Vietnam vets home?

the crowd erupted in applause

We "won" in Iraq.

Ever seen the home team lose?

[Neserk]

Bush was told Iraq had WMD's. If a large stash of WMD's was found tomorrow, would all of you guys be liars? We would call you misinformed or you didn't have all of the facts.



No, Bush had bad intelligence from bad sources that he chose to believe because he wanted to in order to start a war. Bush *wanted* Iraq to be involved in 9/11 so he could get support so he ignored all the evidence to the contrary and deceived the American public as well as the entire world.

He wasn't misinformed. He did the misinforming, he is a liar.

[Neserk]

Yes, I blame the hostile environment that existed in this country for a majority of the Vets problems. .

Well, blame away but protestors were the least of their problems. You don't get PTSD from people protesting a war. Why do you think vets started taking drugs while they were in Vietnam? To escape the horrors of what they were experiencing.

[Leo Hubbard]

He wasn't misinformed. He did the misinforming, he is a liar.
And you know this because????

[Neserk]

And you know this because????


I've been paying attention ;)

[Leo Hubbard]

I've been paying attention ;)

John Kerry told Democrats gathered in Boston two weeks ago that he defended his country as a young soldier in Vietnam and he would defend it again as president.

But as Michael Dukakis' lieutenant governor, Kerry authored an executive order that said the state of Massachussetts would refuse to take part in any civil defense efforts in response to a nuclear attack on America.

Quit a bit to pay attention to, now and then.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/8/13/95839.shtml
I hope this reaches a commercial soon.


Lt. Gov. Kerry's executive order on behalf of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts read in part:

"Whereas the existing and potential strength of nuclear weapons is such that nuclear war can neither be won nor survived, it can only be prevented; and Whereas the only effective defense against the horrors of nuclear weapons lies in their elimination and in the prevention of nuclear war or attacks, [the Commonwealth of Massachusetts] shall seek to ensure the safety of its citizens by pursuit of policies reflecting a serious commitment to prevention of nuclear war."

"Such policies," the Kerry directive continued, "shall include education of citizens concerning the real nature of nuclear war and efforts to influence national policy towards negotiation of an end to the nuclear-arms race."

The Kerry order stated emphatically, however: "No funds shall be expended by the Commonwealth for crisis relocation planning for nuclear war."

Then we won the cold war.

[yellow]

Call me a Threadromancer (I ressurect dead threads):

I was just running through The Smoking Gun (http://www.thesmokinggun.com) and came across a blurb about George Elliot, one of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, apparently was the one who recommended John Kerry for a Bronze Star in 1969.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0820041kerry1.html