Analyst Predictions for 2010 iPhone: 70% Chance of Verizon, Battery Improvements, RFID

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/09/analyst-predictions-for-2010-iphone-70-chance-of-verizon-battery-improvements-rfid/)

Silicon Alley Insider reports (http://www.businessinsider.com/70-chance-of-an-iphone-at-verizon-next-year-2009-12) on a research note from Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster, who cites fellow analyst Chris Larsen as giving Apple a 70% chance of launching an iPhone on Verizon sometime next year. According to Silicon Alley Insider, there are a number of good reasons to expect Apple to make the move to Verizon:- Because Verizon is the biggest U.S. carrier, and could help Apple sell millions more phones per year.
- Because Apple is no doubt aware that AT&T, its current iPhone partner, is majorly flaking on network quality in big markets like New York and San Francisco.
- Because Verizon would otherwise continue to invest heavily in Apple rivals like Google Android and RIM BlackBerry.
- Because the smartphone market is a platform land grab and Apple can't afford to lose ground -- even at the risk of complicating their product line or back-end systems.There are, however, a number of reasons why such a deal may not occur in 2010, such as difficulties reaching a revenue sharing agreement, increased handset subsidies from AT&T to maintain its exclusivity agreement, and the apparently tenuous relationship (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/23/apple-to-enter-verizon-atandt-spat-with-two-new-iphone-ads/) between Verizon and Apple as the iPhone maker stands by its U.S. partner AT&T in its ongoing spat with Verizon.

Reports have also centered on the need for Apple to produce different iPhone hardware if it wishes to offer 3G connectivity on Verizon's network due to differences between Verizon's system and that used by all current iPhone carriers. Some speculators have claimed that Apple would be more likely to wait for the converged roll-out of 4G technology that would allow for a single type of hardware across all providers, possibly delaying a Verizon iPhone roll-out until 2011 or 2012 when the carrier achieves broad 4G coverage.

But Silicon Alley Insider notes that even then the iPhone would almost certainly need the capability of falling back to 3G networks where 4G is not yet available, necessitating multiple hardware models or possibly a multi-mode hybrid chip (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/06/apple-to-manufacture-verizon-compatible-iphone-in-q3-2010/) currently under development by Qualcomm that could support both types of 3G networks.

Offering a different perspective on Piper Jaffray's report, Fortune points to other strategies (http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/12/09/next-years-iphone/) Apple could be looking to employ for the 2010 revision of the iPhone: battery improvements and RFID-enabled (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/11/05/why-an-rfid-enabled-iphone/) payment technology.-Give the iPhone a battery that lasts longer than one day. "Apple has introduced advanced battery technology with its portable Macs," he writes, "and we expect the company to dramatically improve the iPhone battery life with the next several hardware launches."
-Turn the iPhone into a digital wallet. Munster predicts that future iPhones will have built-in RFID (radio-frequency identification) technology, allowing them to make retail payments with a single swipe.

Article Link: Analyst Predictions for 2010 iPhone: 70% Chance of Verizon, Battery Improvements, RFID (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/09/analyst-predictions-for-2010-iphone-70-chance-of-verizon-battery-improvements-rfid/)

[denm316]

So they speculate they will and speculate they wont...wow great news.

[pellets007]

So all this says is that the iPhone may or may not be coming to Verizon? We've known that. The battery is a given, as it was upgraded with the release of the 3GS and more dramatic changes should be expected now.

[Ambrose Chapel]

re: RFID for payment -- how secure is that? i've read about many RFIT items that have gotten hacked fairly easily...

[reallynotnick]

I personally wish they would bring the iPhone to either T-Mobile or Sprint because I don't want to be paying the prices of big blue or red. My first gen data planless iPhone on T-Mobile is getting a little long in the tooth, and if the iPhone does not come out on either T-Mobile or Sprint I will probably get some sort of Android phone with Snapdragon next year.

[SwiftLives]

I'd see the phone going to T Mobile before Verizon, if for no other reason than network compatibility.

[ortuno2k]

Sure, Apple should move past AT&T...but RFID? No, thanks.

[darthraige]

It's all about money these days and not the consumer... Apple would sell a crap load more phones if they offered the phone on VZW. That and the average consumer will not care about a 4G phone. Just release the 3G for VZW now, and make a super duper 4G iPhone later on.

[TuckBodi]

Please Apple, please go with T-Mobile! Please!

[mdntcallr]

this is a great idea i hope apple does. open up the iphone. maybe to several providers. Verizon, T-Mobile, Sprint

Verizon has the best wireless broadband network for coverage in the usa.

Shouldn't be a problem to create a chip which can be used on Verizon, LTE and the new GSM standard ATT is using as an interm.

Apple ought to just end the ATT exclusivity asap. its a pain and i hate ATT at this point.

ATT can't even launch Microcell. they have been dragging their heels on this service and even put in there a restriction via a GPS locator, so you can't take the device out of the country. no other cell providers have complained about this. but ATT???? they must be concerned about people going up to places like canada or the carribean and bringing their microcell's with them. When and if they ever launch the product.

and as for RFID tech, its a boneheaded idea because it is so unprotected. hackers can just scan them as they walk by

[SFStateStudent]

Definitely, would love to see T-Mobile get the NOD. I live in the "non-RED" area on the Verizon map! LMAO T-Mobile needs to get off their butt and start their 3G network or else it's Verizon....:eek:

[Sayer]

Did the research note include the possible color selections of new iPhones as "black, possibly also white"?

[DipDog3]

Instead of spending more money paying Apple subsidies, why doesn't AT&T just spend that money to fix their network?

[countrydweller]

So they speculate they will and speculate they wont...wow great news.

$$$$$ will be the big decider, if Apple and Verizon can come to an agreement, both make big bucks, it's a done deal.

[agengler]

I'm usually one of those "early adopters", but I live in the boonies and only Verizon gives good coverage, or I would have had an iPhone years ago.

[idiosyncratic i]

-Give the iPhone a battery that lasts longer than one day. "Apple has introduced advanced battery technology with its portable Macs," he writes, "and we expect the company to dramatically improve the iPhone battery life with the next several hardware launches."

This guy does not understand the nature of mac battery improvements. The most impressive gains made in the macbook pro line came from making the batteries non-removable. That is, they took out the mechanisms that allowed you to take out the battery in order to make more room for battery. You can't do that in iPhone. The battery is already non-removable. I'm sure there will be incremental gains in battery life, because there always are. But I'd be really shocked if the battery life shoots up from ~1 day to ~2 days.

[countrydweller]

This guy does not understand the nature of mac battery improvements. The most impressive gains made in the macbook pro line came from making the batteries non-removable. That is, they took out the mechanisms that allowed you to take out the battery in order to make more room for battery. You can't do that in iPhone. The battery is already non-removable. I'm sure there will be incremental gains in battery life, because there always are. But I'd be really shocked if the battery life shoots up from ~1 day to ~2 days.

From a 1/3 or so to a day would be nice.

[powers74]

Seems like T-mobile would be the practical choice unless they can get that Qualcom chip in time. RFID? Oh, great. That tech creeps me out a little.

[zap2]

I'd assume T Mobile would be a logical first choice for Apple to go to...Verizon might make sense to, they'd get their device out of the way of a huge corporation(currently all Verizon ads have targeted AT&T and Apple, I'm sure Apple would love to see that go to just targeting AT&T)

[stridemat]

Only 70% chance, I need to decide on whether I want to wait for this possible new iphone or move to the palm pre come January?

[Jayomat]

lol how should they improve batterylife significantly? apple didn't invent a new battery technology, they simply made more room for a bigger battery.

as to RFID... pffff... apple will give us ANYTHING to sell MORE ANYTHING... it's not really about the consumers needs, just about apple's sales... e.g. they added WIFI to the touch just to let you buy on the app store (of course it makes sense from apple's opoint of view..., nevertheless it sucks to know that you only get what pays off for apple...)

refine the OS, software is the key (TO ME), not useless gimmicks like RFID...

(pls no debate about eco 101... apple is a business, shareholdes blabla, i know)

[PlayRadioPlay]

Since my contract will be up next year, I would switch to Verizon in a heartbeat if the iPhone went there.

[kristoffer4]

re: RFID for payment -- how secure is that? i've read about many RFIT items that have gotten hacked fairly easily...

It works in Japan. :D

[bennifer3000]

Please Apple, I've been an AT&T customer for 6 years and am tired of their terrible everything and I don't want to illegally jailbreak my phone.

Cheaper rates would be cool too Verizon. ;)

[fishmoose]

re: RFID for payment -- how secure is that? i've read about many RFIT items that have gotten hacked fairly easily...

Tell me about it, I don't want that in my phone. Will JB and turn that chip off if you can.

[22Hertz]

Apple, you snooze you lose.
Got a Chocolate touch...nice phone.

Verizon good, ATT bad mmmkay

[NoExpectations]

...but would I leave AT&T for...

Verizon: Higher costs, rigid control, pay extra for Visual Voice Mail, unlimited data plan that is actually capped at 5GB/Mo, no concurrent voice/data. Nah.

T-Mobile: Even worse 3G coverage. Nah.

However, it makes sense for Apple to pick T-Mobile next.

[Beric]

and I don't want to illegally jailbreak my phone.

It's your decision whether or not to break Apple's EULA, but its not illegal at all. You bought it; you can do what you want with it.

EDIT: Just to clarify, jailbreaking an iPhone creates a voidable contract for both Apple and AT&T, but not you. So AT&T can deny you service, and Apple can deny you warranty service. But unless you actually use it for illegal activities, they won't have anything on you other than the termination fee you initially agreed to.

[UmichAg]

Apple touts the ability of the iPhone to do talk & data at the same time, something that you can't do on Verizon.

Is this a restriction that Verizon could easily lift?

[Consultant]

iPhone won't be on Verizon because Verizon uses outdated CDMA technology, while most of the world moved to GSM.

[sigmalover]

What everyone keeps forgetting is Verizon has there own app store... I don't see them ever allowing people to use iTunes or the Apple app store on there network.
With that said I will be switching to Verizon when my contract expires next year. I love the iPhone, but my wife is on call for her job and AT&T just isn't cutting it... she can't leave the house when she's on call because she doesn't know if her phone will ring.
I'm looking forward to Google's rumored phone and am really hopping it's not as fugly as the Droid.

[VenusianSky]

I love when "analysts" make "predictions" but leave sort of an escape clause in their statements for when their prediction fails. What the hell good is the prediction? "70% chance of Verizon" but "a number of reasons why such a deal may not occur in 2010". To me this just sounds like either an AT&T basher or an angry iPhone user that has experienced dropped call/signal issues.

[swagi]

iPhone won't be on Verizon because Verizon uses outdated CDMA technology, while most of the world moved to GSM.

Ever thought of the iPhone getting LTE? I mean, honestly, it will arrive mid 2010. Verizon should have some major cities covered with LTE by then.

iPhone + LTE = groundbreaking data device generating lots of money for a fast and massive LTE rollout

Check out this link (http://www.fiercebroadbandwireless.com/story/verizon-clarifies-lte-roll-out-plans-spells-out-stricter-handset-requirements/2009-05-18) 20 to 30 major cities at start will make a really big and most of all very hypable technology rollout.

As for RFID - yeah, great. Could come in handy, if the tech is widely adopted for paying.

[thisgoesto11]

Apple should never have gone with Cingular/AT&T in the first place. They've sucked forever. No cellular provider is perfect, but AT&T is by far the worst.

I've been with all the providers at one point or another. Everyone kind of blows, but I think I got the most bang for my buck with T-Mobile. Verizon's customer service is great. Sprint's cellular service is impeccable. But they've all got problems.

AT&T has issues across the board. But I'm with them because I'm a Mac Lifer. Always support Apple products. But in the last 10 years, teaming with AT&T is probably the worst thing Apple's done. And it's come back to bite them in the butt.

If I had my choice of providers, I'd go with T-Mobile. They have the best rates, but the most dropped calls ... however, I email and text more than use the phone, so it wouldn't effect me that much. Verizon would be my second choice.

Also, AT&T sucks. Just wanted to make that clear.

[sigmalover]

Actually T-Mobile roams on the AT&T network... T-Mobile plans are cheap, but there service is far worse then AT&T. Sprint is also cheap, but nowhere near as good as AT&T.

[KurtangleTN]

Would it seriously be that hard to offer both a CDMA model? Isn't it basically a single chip or two difference?

Does Apple think consumers are really that stupid that they won't be able to clearly buy one for their specific network?

[aperture01]

the iphone will NEVER goto Verizon, that's my "analysis".

I do realized dropped calls and crap sucks on AT&T, but I bet it'll get better. I just for some reason LOATHE Verizon. The name even just pisses me off.

But anyway the fact of the matter is I don't think they will because of the network differences. I mean they're talking about this chip, but I'd imagine there'd be a major software change from the cellular standpoint to deal with this non-concurrent data issue and all sorts of other things.

My friend has a droid now, when he is on data his phone is busy all the time, sometimes I get through for some reason.

Okay... well maybe when LTE hits, but then Verizon won't have this "map" game to play anymore, it's anyone's game at that point, not to mention the phone will still need to fall back to something.

I see T-Mobile getting it before Verizon. Smaller network but less prep to get it on their network.

[miketcool]

Please Apple, please go with T-Mobile! Please!

Apple already partnered with T-Mobile, it's just not the North American division.:D

T-Mobile is slated to have the fastest growth as their towers are going to skip 7.2 mbps HSPA...

[Xavier]

My contract will be up with Verizon March of 2011. Hopefully the iPhone will be on Verizon by then.

Not holding my breath though.

[Goldfinger]

Wasn't there some talk about a combined GSM/CDMA receiver ? Add an LTE receiver to that and you're golden. A true worldphone compatible with all current standards. = Win.

People who think that there will be usable LTE coverage in 2011 are misleading themselves. It'll take YEARS before we have full LTE coverage. We don't even have 100% 3G coverage yet.. (be it CDMA or GSM..). They can't (or don't want to) offer adequate 3G coverage yet.
LTE in the largest markets does not mean sufficient LTE coverage to leave out CDMA.

[Ademius]

I really doubt that Apple will be able to offer an increase in batterylife of dramatic proportions given the level of development or lack thereof in battery technology. What they could and most probably will do is to use new more power efficent chips, as they always do.

Given the limited opportunities to significantly improve the batterylife it is of greatest importance for Apple to optimize power consumtion. Especially when it comes to multi-tasking (which will probably be the greatest sellingpoint of the 2010 iPhone) and/or greater performance on data-throughput (802.11n), but most probably not LTE, as there's a lack of support from carriers and their networks and coverage as of now.

Other expected smaller improvements are
- Higher capacity, up to 64 GB (given that a compatible singe-chip NAND-flash of that size is produced to a great enough extent to a reasonable prize)
- Improved camera. Probably not a big sellingpoint.
- At least a slight redesign to differentiate it from 3GS and 3G is required.
- Maybe Bluetooth 3.0 to allow for fast wireless syncing? Feels like they would update their Mac lineup with Bluetooth 3.0 first though.

Hard to say what else. If they can make an iPhone powerful enough to run several applications in the backround while keeping decent batterylife and performance, then it will be a huge hit.

[miketcool]

An LTE version of iPhone running VoLGA over IMS for T-Mo is what I want to see.

LTE - Long Term Evolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution)

[captain kaos]

This guy does not understand the nature of mac battery improvements. The most impressive gains made in the macbook pro line came from making the batteries non-removable. That is, they took out the mechanisms that allowed you to take out the battery in order to make more room for battery. You can't do that in iPhone. The battery is already non-removable. I'm sure there will be incremental gains in battery life, because there always are. But I'd be really shocked if the battery life shoots up from ~1 day to ~2 days.

Exactly. As a side comment, i recently got out of my 2 year Optus contract and went to Telstra (Australia). I can now actually get a days use of the phone with 3G switched on. With Optus i got about 1/2 a day. It was so bad I never bothered switching 3G on.

[MacFly123]

re: RFID for payment -- how secure is that? i've read about many RFIT items that have gotten hacked fairly easily...

I heard that recently as well when I saw an article that talked about a new technology that essentially finger prints RFIDs without added components, manufacturing, or cost. Sorry, I can't seem to find it. I think it was on engadget.

[kdarling]

Re: Technical possibility of a CDMA+GSM iPhone.

With the exception of the Droids, many or even most of the smartphones added to Verizon's stable in the past year or so have been combination CDMA+GSM.

Samsung Saga,
HTC Touch Pro 2,
HTC Imagio,
HTC Ozone,
RIM Storm,
RIM Tour, and the older
RIM 8830.

That's a lot of dual mode phones. (I think one reason the Droids aren't, is because Verizon unlocks the GSM side upon request, and a lot would probably end up on ATT.)

[aegisdesign]

iPhone won't be on Verizon because Verizon uses outdated CDMA technology, while most of the world moved to GSM.

Huh? 3G GSM UMTS uses CDMA technology. It's a different CDMA design to Verizon's Qualcomm based technology but it's still CDMA. Neither are 'outdated'.

[harmonica01]

this could be disastrous for AT&T.

I know many of my colleagues, my family, and myself hate the AT&T coverage and rate of dropped calls in Houston. Only reason I stay with them is cuse the iphone has wifi, and when I do get even the "E" signal it sounds good. Not sure if I will be resigning at end of this contract with at&t if iphone is opened to verizon

[lhotka]

I heard that recently as well when I saw an article that talked about a new technology that essentially finger prints RFIDs without added components, manufacturing, or cost. Sorry, I can't seem to find it. I think it was on engadget.

It's not secure enough, and uses confidential algorithms in many cases.

It'd be darn hard to use your iphone/itouch while it's wrapped in tinfoil.

[iphones4evry1]

Digital Wallet? No.
Faster processor, more RAM, faster network speed, HD video camera, and video chat with 1.0Mp front-facing camera? Yes.

AND A DEDICATED, PHYSICAL BUTTON FOR THE CAMERA SHUTTER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[adder7712]

Digital Wallet? No.
Faster processor, more RAM, faster network speed, HD video camera, and video chat with 1.0Mp front-facing camera? Yes.

AND A DEDICATED, PHYSICAL BUTTON FOR THE CAMERA SHUTTER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That looks sweet man. That's what I call an iPhone. :apple:

And a 5 or more megapixel camera with a better lense would help too and remove the exclusivity with any network and sell it unlocked.

[Psychmike]

What information allows these analysts to claim 70% certainty?? When good SCIENTISTS talk about probability, they're not pulling numbers out of their butts. They are talking about distributions based on the central limit theorem.

If you play a legit lottery, the chances of you winning are based on either the statistical probability of your numbers coming up or the number of other people who are drawing against you. You wouldn't give $10 to some guy on the street who says you have a 70% chance of winning $1,000 based on nothing. No one should take these analysts' predictions seriously. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The latest apple tablet rumors say that the screen will be 7", 9", 10.5", 12", or 13". I think it's fair to say that they've covered their bases.

[miketcool]

That's a lot of dual mode phones. (I think one reason the Droids aren't, is because Verizon unlocks the GSM side upon request, and a lot would probably end up on ATT.)

They might end up outside, or defeat Verizon's chance to charge you fees for traveling. I doubt any number would end up at AT&T. I brought my own phone (Nokia N82) back in the day to AT&T for a contract-less, free trial. Network was shoddy, calls dropped, data was TERRIBLE. They claimed GSM was high speed and acceptable. Customer service was like pleading with the mafia.

If AT&T loses the iPhone, I expect them to become Cingular all over again looking for someone to rescue them from drowning.

[ThunderSkunk]

My predictions for 2010:

70% more speculator disappointment, no verizon, no ichat on the iphone, and I'll buy a new iphone but stick with my 2G anyway, on account of its durable enclosure and long-lasting battery.

[J12300]

T-Mobile & AT&T = many dropped calls

Verizon = Sign me up for an iPhone

Just switched back to Verizon from the last 2 years between Tmobile & At&t...always dropping calls...hate them both!!!

[macridah]

maybe a good stock play to buy at&t puts and verizon calls ...

but these mention features are pretty cool, but the next iphone needs a "one more thing" to keep, increase market share.

[satcomer]

Please Apple, please go with T-Mobile! Please!

Yes please!

[cg0def]

how do analysts always manage to come up with such crap? Apple is already using the so called new battery technology and you can't really squeeze an elephant in a jar no matter how hard you try. I would really like my iPhone to have a week+ battery life but it simply isn't going to happen next year. Also there is no new revolutionary technology that has been announced so don't get your hopes up too much. If there is a new version of the iPhone ( and it is quite possible that Apple will skip this cycle ) then it would be just a refresh with only minor updates. New camera, slightly more efficient CPU and stuff like that. The big announcement is the iPad and not the iPhone.

[Maserati7200]

Please Apple, please go with T-Mobile! Please!
If the iPhone goes to T-Mobile either a) the iPhone will cost much more than $199 or b)You would have to get a really expensive plan to subsidize it.

[APPLEFAN8]

Only 70% chance, I need to decide on whether I want to wait for this possible new iphone or move to the palm pre come January?

I would just wait, the palm pre will be there say you get the palm pre and they have the iphone come out to verizon. Than your in a pickle lol

[beebler]

Apple could make a killing on VZW. They need to be careful not to make themselves too exclusive, they've made that mistake before.

Of course RFID payments. I think it's funny how so many are skeptical or against it. It's old news in Japan.

[CooKieMoNs7eR]

omg im so sick of this topic,so sick of it,iphone coming to verizon next yr,At&t wanna extend the exclusive agreement,mybe its gonna be on verizons 4G network in 2011,mybe mybe mybe this and that,they keep posting articles about it being possible and at the same time they say its not possible cuz verizon is cdma and att is gsm...bla bla bla...I really dont care anymore thats it.

[chatin]

Droid is technically superior to iPhone. iPhone will not compete well on Verizon network unless reason for dropped calls is cleared up fast. :rolleyes::apple:

[bytethese]

What information allows these analysts to claim 70% certainty?? When good SCIENTISTS talk about probability, they're not pulling numbers out of their butts. They are talking about distributions based on the central limit theorem.

If you play a legit lottery, the chances of you winning are based on either the statistical probability of your numbers coming up or the number of other people who are drawing against you. You wouldn't give $10 to some guy on the street who says you have a 70% chance of winning $1,000 based on nothing. No one should take these analysts' predictions seriously. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The latest apple tablet rumors say that the screen will be 7", 9", 10.5", 12", or 13". I think it's fair to say that they've covered their bases.

You know, 68% of all statistics are made up on the spot...

Also on that note, Sex Panther, 60% of the time it works, every time.

[whatever]

The iPhone will not be available on the Verizon network in 2010.

But what if the iPhone was on Verizon's network on initial rollout. Does anyone honestly believe that Verizon's network would have been able to handle the rapid increase of traffic. That was the problem.

The Droid has been out less than two months and it's already facing stiff competition by other smart phones from Verizon. Which is why it will never catch up to the iPhone.

And that's the bigger thing. Android, like Windows is just the OS. Where Apple does both the hardware and the software. So while Android phones compete with one another, the iPhone will continue to rise above them. Having one product to produce and market (such as the iPhone) is much easier than multiple Android phones. And like in the PC market the Android phones will be force to lower their prices to compete with one another. Meanwhile, the only iPhone that the iPhone needs to compete with is the iPhone.

[iphones4evry1]

What information allows these analysts to claim 70% certainty?? When good SCIENTISTS talk about probability, they're not pulling numbers out of their butts. They are talking about distributions based on the central limit theorem.

If you play a legit lottery, the chances of you winning are based on either the statistical probability of your numbers coming up or the number of other people who are drawing against you. You wouldn't give $10 to some guy on the street who says you have a 70% chance of winning $1,000 based on nothing. No one should take these analysts' predictions seriously. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The latest apple tablet rumors say that the screen will be 7", 9", 10.5", 12", or 13". I think it's fair to say that they've covered their bases.

I was wondering the same thing. I don't think Gene Munster learned anything in his math classes when he had a chance.

Suppose seven analysts told Gene the iPhone was coming to Verizon, but then an actual employee denied the claim. Then steve jobs said "no way in hell" and the CEO of verizon said "no way in hell." Now we have something called a weighted distribution. Gene Munster would know nothing about that. :D
And with only ten data points, we would certainly not have a Gaussian distribution.

Here's something cool to look at (where your iPhone cash goes): http://www.iphonealley.com/current/where-the-money-you-paid-for-your-iphone-went?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+iphonealley%2Fnews+%28iPhone+Alley+-+News%29

[peterdevries]

Please Apple, please go with T-Mobile! Please!

In Germany and here in The Netherlands the iPhone is being sold by T-Mobile, and I can assure you that you will eat that wish once your are one a two year contract (that's the minimum here) with them. I have never experienced such a dreadful carrier, and I have had them all here in The Netherlands.

What's especially difficult to stomach is that they advertise, no brag about their network quality, whereas the 3G reception in 3 of the three largest cities of the Netherlands where I work is practically non-existent.

The network quality is bound to be different in the US for T-Mobile, but the customer service, support etc. is bound to be equally dreadful.

Oh, and Gene Munster? All due respect to the guy but his accuracy has been off ever since I first read about him. I now only read his predictions for comic relief...

[Little Endian]

This guy does not understand the nature of mac battery improvements. The most impressive gains made in the macbook pro line came from making the batteries non-removable. That is, they took out the mechanisms that allowed you to take out the battery in order to make more room for battery. You can't do that in iPhone. The battery is already non-removable. I'm sure there will be incremental gains in battery life, because there always are. But I'd be really shocked if the battery life shoots up from ~1 day to ~2 days.

Could not agree more, its more like that the recent mac laptop improvements in battery life were due to incorporating iphone battery features. Notably no removable and shape formed lithium polymer cells. I can see battery life improving in an incremental 10-30% amount.

Anyhow the point is moot for me as I already get about 2-3 days battery life on my iphone, though an increase would be nice. I used to get 1 day only but then I realized it was because I was addicted to the damned thing and using it far to heavily for web access and for GPS. The more you use an iphone like a regular phone the more likely you are to see decent to good battery life.

RFID is nothing to fear as I have used it for the past year or so on both my CHASE and CITI cards here in the US. Never had any problems but I still fail to see the benefit as it saves a second or two at best compared to swiping.

[christian_k]

Re: Technical possibility of a CDMA+GSM iPhone.

With the exception of the Droids, many or even most of the smartphones added to Verizon's stable in the past year or so have been combination CDMA+GSM.

Samsung Saga,
HTC Touch Pro 2,
HTC Imagio,
HTC Ozone,
RIM Storm,
RIM Tour, and the older
RIM 8830.

That's a lot of dual mode phones. (I think one reason the Droids aren't, is because Verizon unlocks the GSM side upon request, and a lot would probably end up on ATT.)

As far as I know there no CDMA+GSM+UMTS(HSDPA) phones yet.

An iPhone that is limited to GSM/EDGE (like the 1st gen iPhone) everywhere in Europe and on AT&T /T-Mo in the US would be hard to sell in 2010. The smartphones you mentioned are also sold in Euro, but in different versions that support GSM and UMTS/HSDPA, but not CDMA.

But there would be real benefits of a true "all-in-one" device.

UMTS support would also be a plus for US-Verizon customers when roaming globaly and would give them fredom of choice once the contract is over.

International customers from countries with GSM/UMTS could use the Verizon network for roaming when they visit the US.

Finally, LTE will be the next step in both the GSM/UMTS and the CDMA worlds. So both systems will converge anyway.

Christian

[scottness]

I don't think it'll happen.

[cleric]

Did everyone forget that tmobiles 3g is on a different frequency? Some hardware work would have to be done which makes it probably about as likely as any other carrier. They could release an iphone that only works on EDGE (2G) but I can't see them doing that. It's probably going to all the carriers or staying on ATT.

[alphaod]

I'd rather they just use the new Qualcomm chipsets and allow us to choose whatever network we want.

[pmjoe]

Until somebody analyzes these so-called "analysts" and tells me how accurate they are, I'll be ignoring these articles. I can make up predictions too.

[JoJoCal19]

As far as I know there no CDMA+GSM+UMTS(HSDPA) phones yet.

An iPhone that is limited to GSM/EDGE (like the 1st gen iPhone) everywhere in Europe and on AT&T /T-Mo in the US would be hard to sell in 2010. The smartphones you mentioned are also sold in Euro, but in different versions that support GSM and UMTS/HSDPA, but not CDMA.

But there would be real benefits of a true "all-in-one" device.

UMTS support would also be a plus for US-Verizon customers when roaming globaly and would give them fredom of choice once the contract is over.

International customers from countries with GSM/UMTS could use the Verizon network for roaming when they visit the US.

Finally, LTE will be the next step in both the GSM/UMTS and the CDMA worlds. So both systems will converge anyway.

Christian


Well actually the Verizon phones with CDMA/GSM do have GSM 3G bands but they left off the one that ATT uses (1900?). They have the 3G bands for overseas. The reason they did that is obviously to keep people from using 3G on ATT in the US.

But yea I cannot wait until Verizon/ATT/T-Mo go to LTE. Competition will be greatly increased and we will be able to switch carriers easily.

[jjack50]

As far as I know there no CDMA+GSM+UMTS(HSDPA) phones yet.

An iPhone that is limited to GSM/EDGE (like the 1st gen iPhone) everywhere in Europe and on AT&T /T-Mo in the US would be hard to sell in 2010. The smartphones you mentioned are also sold in Euro, but in different versions that support GSM and UMTS/HSDPA, but not CDMA.

But there would be real benefits of a true "all-in-one" device.

UMTS support would also be a plus for US-Verizon customers when roaming globaly and would give them fredom of choice once the contract is over.

International customers from countries with GSM/UMTS could use the Verizon network for roaming when they visit the US.

Finally, LTE will be the next step in both the GSM/UMTS and the CDMA worlds. So both systems will converge anyway.

Christian

Verizon's versions of the Blackberry Storm, Storm2, and Tour all are multi-band phones that cover GSM and UMTS/HSDPA and CDMA. They have radios for the North American GSM bands and have 3g available in UMTS/HSPDA and CDMA. They also work in Korea and Japan as well as almost all of the rest of the world. So such a multi-band phone is certainly possible now. Add in LTE and you'd have a killer world phone in terms of available coverage.

[Prom1]

Wasn't there some talk about a combined GSM/CDMA receiver ? Add an LTE receiver to that and you're golden. A true worldphone compatible with all current standards. = Win.

People who think that there will be usable LTE coverage in 2011 are misleading themselves. It'll take YEARS before we have full LTE coverage. We don't even have 100% 3G coverage yet.. (be it CDMA or GSM..). They can't (or don't want to) offer adequate 3G coverage yet.
LTE in the largest markets does not mean sufficient LTE coverage to leave out CDMA.

Usable vs Full LTE coverage to NOT equal the same thing. Also you need to think outside of the USA. I BELIEVE Verizon will have about the same initial LTE coverage the 2nd QTR of 2011 as T-Mobile USA had with their AWS-3G footprint which is Usable (if launched in highly populated markets: NYC, L.A., Miami, etc etc).

Now Vodafone, Orange, and possibly O2 in Europe, Telus & Bell Mobilities (they share their networks even the new HSPA+) in Canada, and don't forget China, and possibly Japan will most likely be building their networks or launching end of 2010.

Will LTE chipset be in the 2010 iPhone? Most likely not, due to only 6mths of ANY network capable of using it at end of production life. Summer 2011 seems more likely.

Seems like the "analysts" have just been reading many of the iPhone forums here and other forums sites and just rehashing what we've all researched and talked about. I doubt ANY real research has been done other than just contacting feasible company's books/ceo's after reading leads found in these such forums.


Verizon's versions of the Blackberry Storm, Storm2, and Tour all are multi-band phones that cover GSM and UMTS/HSDPA and CDMA. They have radios for the North American GSM bands and have 3g available in UMTS/HSPDA and CDMA. They also work in Korea and Japan as well as almost all of the rest of the world. So such a multi-band phone is certainly possible now. Add in LTE and you'd have a killer world phone in terms of available coverage.

Storm 1 & Tour does NOT have HSDPA/UMTS bands that cover North/South America! You cannot use this as a general statement in the same sentence that covers quad-band GSM. UPDATE: Storm2 ALSO doesn't have a usable UMTS/HSDPA band for North America as well: 2100 MHz UMTS/HSPA networks. http://na.blackberry.com/eng/devices/blackberrystorm/storm_specifications.jsp Also the 9550 has BTv2.1+EDR, while the 9530 has BTv2.0 (no EDR).

[jjack50]

Storm 1 & Tour does NOT have HSDPA/UMTS bands that cover North/South America! You cannot use this as a general statement in the same sentence that covers quad-band GSM. UPDATE: Storm2 ALSO doesn't have a usable UMTS/HSDPA band for North America as well: 2100 MHz UMTS/HSPA networks. http://na.blackberry.com/eng/devices/blackberrystorm/storm_specifications.jsp Also the 9550 has BTv2.1+EDR, while the 9530 has BTv2.0 (no EDR).

I mis-wrote. They do not cover North American HSDPA/UMTS bands, just North America/Europe/Asia Pacific GSM/GPRS bands and 2100 mhz HSPA/UMTS band.

The point is the same though. The technology already exists for Verizon and AT&T to use the same iPhone.

[ssspinball]

The network quality is bound to be different in the US for T-Mobile, but the customer service, support etc. is bound to be equally dreadful.
Interesting... T-Mobile continually wins awards every year for "best customer support" in the US, while ALL the rest are terrible at this. At a long-time customer, I can attest to the fast the support is wonderful from T-Mo, USA.

They also have the cheapest prices. The big downside is they don't have the best coverage, so if you live in the countryside, they might not be an option. I live in a metropolitan area and spend 99% of my time there, so I don't have a problem with coverage as much as others might.

[lukin]

The iPhone is such a groundbreaking device. While I don't necessarily believe all the rumors, I do believe that each iteration will add even more and better features that make it a product that everyone should have and use. Maybe thats 1 year, maybe it's 5. Who knows.

Why does Apple want any form of exclusivity agreement? Aren't they only hurting themselves? How many more phones could they sell if they just give it to all the big carriers?

I purchased an iPhone a week after launch in 2007. Earlier this year my contract ended and I moved back to Sprint on an employee plan. I've been on VZW, ATT, and Sprint. By far, Sprint has the best cell service. I don't want to leave (largely because of the employee plan I'm on I save over $50 a month).

So, yes, I'm wishing Sprint would get it. The Pre sucks. But why be exclusive at all?

[bergmef]

Apple should stay with ATT. The profits will only get bigger, it's a sound business decision. ATT will be begging to keep the iphone and, at the pace they are rolling out 3G, Apples radios will be the same same for years on end. Why move to another carrier. Everyone is pointing fingers at ATT, what if people that don't normally get dropped calls, get an iphone and start having them. Then Apple has to answer. They will stay as is for at least 2 more years instead of a cdma/lte phone.

[bkap16]

This guy does not understand the nature of mac battery improvements. The most impressive gains made in the macbook pro line came from making the batteries non-removable. That is, they took out the mechanisms that allowed you to take out the battery in order to make more room for battery. You can't do that in iPhone. The battery is already non-removable. I'm sure there will be incremental gains in battery life, because there always are. But I'd be really shocked if the battery life shoots up from ~1 day to ~2 days.

Apple did make some improvements. Beyond the size of the battery (which, as you stated, can't be accomplished with the iPhone), they also managed to extend the life of the battery to 1000 recharges.

[crimsontwo]

OK, here is what I personally think would greatly benefit the next gen. iPhone and secure its leadership position:

== HARDWARE

1) larger capacity battery even at the expense of a slight increase to overall size.

2) higher resolution screen. OLED would be even nicer.

3) larger RAM capacity. c'mon. ~150MB of operating memory left to run apps is nothing.

4) RFID & FM are nice-to-have but not essential. it is my understanding that the WiFi chip inside the device is already capable of FM reception.

4a) fingerprint reader on the back of the phone. this will appeal to business users as well as make authentication much more secure and faster. I use fingerprint reader on my laptop exclusively, never worrying about forgetting a password.

4b) allow attachment of third-party USB storage devices to the iPhone. I have 32GB in a tiny package. being a photographer who travels with his device, I would love being able to dump my photos on the iPhone and freeing up space on my DSLR. you can think of numerous others uses.

5) front camera. hello! video conferencing is huge. my backup Nokia has 2 cameras in a small form factor. why not iPhone? now that Fring offers video calls through Skype (unidirectional though) and Ustream is officially in the Appstore and allows one to stream video FROM the iPhone, Apple should realize that this is a must-have feature in their next gen. devices.

== SOFTWARE

1) enable backgrounding. implement it just like "notifications" for apps -- user confirms/denies an app's request to be backgrounded.

2) reserve "user space" on the filesystem so that content saved inside a given app could be access from other apps. say, I am editing a Word document in "Documents To Go", saving it, and then opening it in "Mail" to send to others.

2a) enable attachment saving/sending from custom locations.

3) Apple could make big bucks on creating something like SpringBoard and then licensing it to third parties who will create and sell "mods" in the Appstore. people LOVE customizing their gadgets.

an added benefit of that would be reduction in a number of users willing to jailbreak their device. the primary reason to jailbreak is to use custom apps. installing cracked IPAs and "unlocking" the device is secondary (I am talking about an average Joe)

4) give users control of their Bluetooth. while not as prominent in North America, BT is big in foreign markets where users share photos/tunes/etc. via this protocol.

5) allow tethering through WiFi.

6) allow in-call recording. this is a must-have feature for a lot of people who do teleconferencing/etc.

==

this list is only of key/essential features that I would like to see implemented. all of them are value-added and doable, not something that Apple cannot implement and/or would require tremendous investments/device price skyrocketing (except for some hardware mods such as fingerprint reader/additional camera/RFID).

all of the software features (+ being able to use the phone on another network since I travel abroad frequently) are THE reason why I Jailbroke my device. essentially, I already have it all. why can't Apple make it official and profit?

cheers.

[kdarling]

iPhone won't be on Verizon because Verizon uses outdated CDMA technology, while most of the world moved to GSM.

That's backwards. CDMA was always the superior radio technology.

Almost fifteen years ago, engineers already knew that CDMA radios were the way to handle more users, with higher bandwidth. That's why Verizon and some high-tech countries started with CDMA, even though it cost more to do than using the older GSM/GPRS/TDMA radios. But 3G was an easy transition for them.

GSM carriers had to later add support for CDMA radios to get 3G, which is why ATT is so far behind in coverage... and why they have other problems since their cell network was not originally designed for CDMA.

(OTOH, they were able to use wider bands and allow simultaneous data + voice.)

The iPhone will not be available on the Verizon network in 2010.

Not a response to you in particular, but...

It would be fun if there was forum software where each user could vote on a half dozen predictions... and get locked into them at a certain point. When the event later happened (or not), their avatar+name would have flag dots set to green or red.

Then you could easily look at the person's name on a post, and see flags indicating how many predictions they were right on, and how many were wrong.

[hellodon]

I dont think iPhone is going to end up on Verizon.
Both T-Mobile and Verizon have talked down the iPhone in advertisements in the last few months. This is a common marketing strategy, but I'm SURE they wouldnt do it if they had an agreement to have the product within the next 12 months. That would have been something that was in talks long ago and that would just be a slap in the face.

[powers74]

In Germany and here in The Netherlands the iPhone is being sold by T-Mobile, and I can assure you that you will eat that wish once your are one a two year contract (that's the minimum here) with them. I have never experienced such a dreadful carrier, and I have had them all here in The Netherlands.

What's especially difficult to stomach is that they advertise, no brag about their network quality, whereas the 3G reception in 3 of the three largest cities of the Netherlands where I work is practically non-existent.

The network quality is bound to be different in the US for T-Mobile, but the customer service, support etc. is bound to be equally dreadful.

Oh, and Gene Munster? All due respect to the guy but his accuracy has been off ever since I first read about him. I now only read his predictions for comic relief...

I don't know what to tell you man. Last year our december bill was over $200. I knew we didn't talk that much. I called Customer service, the girl told me it was right, I said there was no way. I studied the bill for hours - one thing I will bitch about is their cryptic bills - but then we got our February bill. $0.00 The coverage is pretty solid here too. The only dropped calls I ever get are when I'm on the phone with my friend who's with Verizon. So. I'm waiting to see where it goes before I make a move to a new carrier.

[powers74]

3) larger RAM capacity. c'mon. ~150MB of operating memory left to run apps is nothing.


1) enable backgrounding. implement it just like "notifications" for apps -- user confirms/denies an app's request to be backgrounded.

2) reserve "user space" on the filesystem so that content saved inside a given app could be access from other apps. say, I am editing a Word document in "Documents To Go", saving it, and then opening it in "Mail" to send to others.



Three out of 14 aint bad. I like the idea to have storage within an app. A fingerprint reader would be sweet too, but not on the back of the phone, no, embedded in the home button. And that's even less likely than a front facing camera.

[M!M!C]

I personally wish they would bring the iPhone to either T-Mobile or Sprint because I don't want to be paying the prices of big blue or red. My first gen data planless iPhone on T-Mobile is getting a little long in the tooth, and if the iPhone does not come out on either T-Mobile or Sprint I will probably get some sort of Android phone with Snapdragon next year.

I am with you on the Sprint side!!

[duramax]

I do realized dropped calls and crap sucks on AT&T, but I bet it'll get better. I just for some reason LOATHE Verizon. The name even just pisses me off.

I would not use an iphone on Verizon if I was paid for it. HATE THEM

Sprint is good but needs to get with it before its too late. I would love an iphone on Sprint but I don't think a CDMA company (verizon or Sprint) will get it until they have a solid 4g network.

[ThunderSkunk]

I do realized dropped calls and crap sucks on AT&T, but I bet it'll get better.

Yeah, I'll bet it'll get better when they get the iPhone exclusively and have to live up to expectations or face the competition.

What part of that idea works?

[twoodcc]

i don't see apple making a special iphone for verizon. so unless they make a hybrid chip, i don't think there'll be a verizon iphone. battery improves and rfid sound nice though