Apple Patent Applications: Tamper-Resistant Labels for Hardware, Accelerometer-Based

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/10/apple-patent-applications-temper-resistant-labels-for-hardware-accelerometer-based-menu-navigation/)

The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office today published over 20 newly-released patent applications from Apple, and AppleInsider highlights (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/12/10/apple_investigates_tamper_resistant_hardware_ipod_motion_controls.html) two of the more interesting ones covering tamper-resistant labels for detecting unauthorized opening of devices and accelerometer-based navigation of menus on Apple's handheld devices.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/12/10/144236-tamper_resistant_label.jpg

The first patent application (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20090301633.PGNR.&OS=DN/20090301633RS=DN/20090301633), entitled "Tamper resistant label for detecting device openings" and filed on August 1st, 2008, addresses a unique type of tamper-resistant label that could be fixed across a seam in an electronic device such that twisting or bending the label beyond a certain point would damage the label, leaving evidence of unauthorized access to the device's internals.The label can be arranged and affixed such that the label rips, tears or is otherwise damaged to a point that it cannot be repaired when the device is fully or at least substantially opened. The single device can become substantially opened when the first object is tilted with respect to the second object at more than a certain angle, such as an angle that is greater than about 10 degrees or greater than about 40 degrees. Alternatively, the single device can become substantially opened when the first object and second object are separated more than about one inch apart at any location where the first object and second object touch to form the single device. Such a rip or damaging of the label can then be readily noticed by an authorized technician or representative when the entire device is turned in for official servicing or repairs. In some embodiments, the label can remain intact when the device is only partially opened or "cracked open," such that it is possible to peek inside the device without damaging the label.Apple appears to have been taking an increased interest recently in addressing circumstances which could result in a customer voiding their warranty due to misuse of or unauthorized access to the internals of their devices. Another recent patent application (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/06/apple-researching-methods-to-detect-consumer-abuse-in-portable-devices/) from Apple described methods by which a device could determine and record whether it had been exposed to a variety of conditions including liquids, extreme temperatures, excessive shock, and unauthorized tampering. Repair technicians could later access these recorded "abuse events" in order to determine what may have caused a given device failure.

The second patent application (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20090307633.PGNR.&OS=DN/20090307633RS=DN/20090307633), entitled "Acceleration navigation of media device displays " and filed on June 28th, 2008, addresses the concept of using an accelerometer within a portable media device such as an iPod to navigate menus within the user interface.In response to the device being physically moved, circuitry of the device can receive acceleration data generated by one or more accelerometers. The circuitry can be configured to respond to the acceleration data by presenting a second display. The second display can be, for example, another menu in the menu hierarchy or the same menu with a different option highlighted. Highlighted, as used herein, includes any means or method for emphasizing one option in relation to another. Common forms of highlighting one or more options include, for example, a bolder font, a colored-in-area around the option, a line around the option, etc. A cover flow type of approach (using, e.g., album covers or other clip art) can also be used to highlight an option.The patent application describes the use of "flicking" accelerations in various directions to navigate user interface menus and select options. Under certain circumstances, accelerometer-based input could be configured to require that a physical button be held down before being registered, reducing unintentional input.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/12/10/144236-accelerometer_navigation_500.jpg

Apple uses accelerometers in variety of products, including its iPhone, iPod touch, and iPod nano, in order to sense device orientation for such tasks as automatically rotating screen display between portrait and landscape mode, as well as for application input. Other Apple devices, such as the company's notebooks, incorporate accelerometers to sense when they have been dropped, allowing sensitive components such as the hard drive to deactivate and brace for impact, limiting potential damage.

Article Link: Apple Patent Applications: Tamper-Resistant Labels for Hardware, Accelerometer-Based Menu Navigation (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/10/apple-patent-applications-temper-resistant-labels-for-hardware-accelerometer-based-menu-navigation/)

[nathbeadle]

Not sure if I'm a fan of the flicking idea to go through menus... On one hand (pun intended) use of a device could be improved without need of a second hand. But my big concern is that flicking takes the screen away from your eyes so that you're constantly having to refocus on the screen before moving on

[nagromme]

Just more “we thought of it so we’ll patent it just in case” patents, I suspect. Apple does a lot of that.

[rwilliams]

Apple appears to have been taking an increased interest recently in addressing circumstances which could result in a customer voiding their warranty due to misuse of or unauthorized access to the internals of their devices. Another recent patent application from Apple described methods by which a device could determine and record whether it had been exposed to a variety of conditions including liquids, extreme temperatures, excessive shock, and unauthorized tampering. Repair technicians could later access these recorded "abuse events" in order to determine what may have caused a given device failure.

I wonder if they would use this on the unibody notebooks, since they don't seem to be too keen on regular folks replacing their own hard drives, memory, and batteries. Their current stance is that only Apple authorized people should do these things, correct?

And don't get me started on water damage. My iPod Touch died on me after I put a miniscule amount of water on it while installing an InvisibleShield, yet somehow the sensor got "tripped", if you will. I've had devices completely submerged in water that were more dependable.

[skellener]

I agree nathbeadle. Does anyone really use any of the "shake" functionality in the iPhone or iPod Touch?

[casik]

I agree nathbeadle. Does anyone really use any of the "shake" functionality in the iPhone or iPod Touch?

I only use shake to undo.

[flopticalcube]

I wonder if they would use this on the unibody notebooks, since they don't seem to be too keen on regular folks replacing their own hard drives, memory, and batteries. Their current stance is that only Apple authorized people should do these things, correct?

And don't get me started on water damage. My iPod Touch died on me after I put a miniscule amount of water on it while installing an InvisibleShield, yet somehow the sensor got "tripped", if you will. I've had devices completely submerged in water that were more dependable.
Apple has been making more and more of their devices less user-serviceable. It will get to the point where no one will be able to do anything without paying Apple to do it for them. Its kind of sad really but it does chime with Steve's original vision of the Mac as a computing appliance.

[rwilliams]

Apple has been making more and more of their devices less user-serviceable. It will get to the point where no one will be able to do anything without paying Apple to do it for them. Its kind of sad really but it does chime with Steve's original vision of the Mac as a computing appliance.

I hear you. Not being able to change a battery in an iPod or iPhone is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. But whatever it takes to keep reaching into the pockets of their customers, I suppose.

[bdkennedy1]

People that open their Apple products don't care that it voids the warranty.

[RichardI]

They are kidding, right? :confused:
No one can patent a movement or motion of a device, surely!

If I was working in the patent office, I'd reject the application.

[DipDog3]

So we only can go to Apple for service?

Is that what they want with this?

[rstansby]

I hear you. Not being able to change a battery in an iPod or iPhone is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. But whatever it takes to keep reaching into the pockets of their customers, I suppose.

You can change the battery in an iPod. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Energizer+-+Replacement+Battery+for+Apple%AE+iPod%26%23153%3B+nano/8440001.p?skuId=8440001&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=8440001&ref=06&loc=01&id=1183160885228

For a large percentage of users the battery on a Cell phone or ipod will never be changed, or will only be changed once every 3-5 years.

I think the dumbest thing I've ever heard is wasting money and space to make the battery on a cell phone removable, only to end up with a battery door that is constantly falling off or coming open. I think the "permanent" rechargeable batteries on the iPhone and iPod are absolutely genius.

P.S. before you mention power users who need 2 batteries for their cell phone you should consider the multitude of external batteries available for cell phones and iPods. There is no reason to be limited to one battery charge per day.

[eastcoastsurfer]

I hear you. Not being able to change a battery in an iPod or iPhone is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. But whatever it takes to keep reaching into the pockets of their customers, I suppose.

I'm less concerned about the iPod/iPhone and more concerned about their laptops. Apple charges insane prices for HD upgrades and memory. If I replace these items myself it should not void the warranty. Currently it doesn't since I have replaced the HD and RAM in my MBP and have also had 2 warranty services in the last month.

[cameronjpu]

How would one distinguish the damage to the tamper evident sticker done by the user when removing the case vs the damage done by Apple when removing the case to see if the sticker was damaged by the user removing the case?

:rolleyes:

[daxomni]

People that open their Apple products don't care that it voids the warranty.
Speak for yourself.

I opened up my MBP to replace Apple's slow and tiny HDD with something faster and larger and yet I still expect them to fix my laptop if it fails due to their own poor workmanship. Well I did, until I read about how Apple (dis)honors their warranties here on Mac Rumors and realized that Apple only fixes unblemished notebooks that never get scratched or dinged from actual use in the real world.

[JPark]

The "tamper detecting label" has been around for years, maybe decades. How in the world did they get a patent for this? I have examples of prior art sitting right here in my front room.

[Passels]

My Olympus camera already does this.... Awesome while skiing and wearing bulky gloved.

[MacTech68]

...don't get me started on water damage. My iPod Touch died on me after I put a miniscule amount of water on it while installing an InvisibleShield, yet somehow the sensor got "tripped", if you will. I've had devices completely submerged in water that were more dependable.

Cover your headphone socket with tape when applying the shield.

;)
________
vaporizer reviews (http://vaporizer.org/)

[mdriftmeyer]

They are kidding, right? :confused:
No one can patent a movement or motion of a device, surely!

If I was working in the patent office, I'd reject the application.

Can we all stop sunday quarterbacking Patents already? 99.9% of the comments get it completely wrong.

[rwilliams]

I got my MacBook serviced earlier this year (under warranty), but was really afraid that they weren't going to do so for free based on the way the "Genius" responded when I told him how much memory and hard drive space I had in my machine. It was one of those "oh really?" type responses - not what you want to hear when asking for repair service. :cool:

[john0879]

How would one distinguish the damage to the tamper evident sticker done by the user when removing the case vs the damage done by Apple when removing the case to see if the sticker was damaged by the user removing the case?

:rolleyes:

From the patent application:

"In some embodiments, the label can remain intact when the device is only partially opened or 'cracked open,' such that it is possible to peek inside the device without damaging the label."

They would have a way to partially open the device and see if the label is damaged. I would imagine that after check the label would be damaged after fully opened to service and would be replaced at the end of the servicing.

[rwilliams]

Cover your headphone socket with tape when applying the shield.

;)

For sure. I still don't know how water even got in there. As I said, the amount of water on the iPod was very minimal, which is apparently all it takes to screw one up. Apple won't repair the non-functioning touchscreen unless I fork over $140.

[daxomni]

Can we all stop sunday quarterbacking Patents already? 99.9% of the comments get it completely wrong.
That's still a better record than the US Patent Office can claim. I say put the Monday quarterbacks in charge and clean up the place for once.

[JonHimself]

I would love to see landscape home screen(s). The BB Storm has something similar, but I would really like it if when I rotated the phone the dock items move to the right (or left) side and the rest of the icons just rotate 90 degrees.. would be great.

[maknik]

What I dislike is that this all goes only one way. I'd be in favor of the tamper-identifying packaging if, when it showed you hadn't tampered, they'd be less likely to accuse you of having meddled with it. But somehow I expect it will just become one more way of denying service.

I say this because the last time I went in to get my Macbook repaired under warranty, they accused me of a) having had the computer (mis)repaired before, and b) having spilled water on it, even though 1) there was no evidence of it having been opened or any of the warranty seals broken, and 2) none of the water sensors had been tripped (both a and b were false, though of course my protestations were no proof).

Somehow, all that "gotcha" stuff in there that wasn't tripped didn't get me off the hook -- but get even one drop of rain on that fully exposed water sensor in the iPhone and you're out. So my guess is that this becomes just another way to deny service, not a genuine tool for better distinguishing the non-scofflaws from the scofflaws.

[koobcamuk]

What I dislike is that this all goes only one way. I'd be in favor of the tamper-identifying packaging if, when it showed you hadn't tampered, they'd be less likely to accuse you of having meddled with it. But somehow I expect it will just become one more way of denying service.

I say this because the last time I went in to get my Macbook repaired under warranty, they accused me of a) having had the computer (mis)repaired before, and b) having spilled water on it, even though 1) there was no evidence of it having been opened or any of the warranty seals broken, and 2) none of the water sensors had been tripped (both a and b were false, though of course my protestations were no proof).

Somehow, all that "gotcha" stuff in there that wasn't tripped didn't get me off the hook -- but get even one drop of rain on that fully exposed water sensor in the iPhone and you're out. So my guess is that this becomes just another way to deny service, not a genuine tool for better distinguishing the non-scofflaws from the scofflaws.

Yes; this is why I am slowly going off Apple.

[joueboy]

I would'nt be surprised if Apple will incorporate accelerometers to sense when the device have been dropped to void warranty. Somehow they already got away with moisture issues with the device telling customer that their devices failure due to liquid damages. I know some people are trying to take advantage of the warranty system. How about those honest people who were taken advantage telling them that their device is not covered by the warranty and they have to pay for the repair when they
already paid the extended warranty.

[rwilliams]

What I dislike is that this all goes only one way. I'd be in favor of the tamper-identifying packaging if, when it showed you hadn't tampered, they'd be less likely to accuse you of having meddled with it. But somehow I expect it will just become one more way of denying service.

I say this because the last time I went in to get my Macbook repaired under warranty, they accused me of a) having had the computer (mis)repaired before, and b) having spilled water on it, even though 1) there was no evidence of it having been opened or any of the warranty seals broken, and 2) none of the water sensors had been tripped (both a and b were false, though of course my protestations were no proof).

Somehow, all that "gotcha" stuff in there that wasn't tripped didn't get me off the hook -- but get even one drop of rain on that fully exposed water sensor in the iPhone and you're out. So my guess is that this becomes just another way to deny service, not a genuine tool for better distinguishing the non-scofflaws from the scofflaws.

Exactly. Apple seems to be finding more and more ways to deny service to legitimate customers who are not trying to beat the system. For crying out loud, there have been people whose iPhone water sensors have been triggered from working out at the gym. Those sensors should not be nearly as exposed as they are and it's way too easy for Apple to cop out on repairs when it takes so little to "void the warranty".

[guzhogi]

AppleInsider has a similar story. They say that APple says this'll save the manufacturers lots of money (probably due to not having to service warranties). If it does save them money, will they pass the savings on to the consumers? Probably not.

[baryon]

Apple doesn't put a serial number on OS X and iWork, but they do everything they can to not have to fix something that isn't covered by their ridiculously short 1 year warranty... strange! It looks like they hate repairing stuff. I think Apple hardware should have at least 2 years of warranty FOR FREE, just like any other electronics product, by the way. Wasn't there a law in the European Union about this?

[Gradivus]

I'm pretty sure Apple's philosophy is -
If you buy a Panasonic TV, you'd never open it up and change the internal components.
If you buy a Bosch washing machine, you'd never open it up and change the internal components.
If you buy a Samsung Bluray player, you'd never open it up and change the internal components.
If you buy an Apple product...
...you'd never open it up and change the internal components.

You don't need to be a electronics engineer to use a TV. You don't need to be an IT engineer to use a Mac (unlike *!@*).

And, of course if you're so dissatisfied with the water sensors, etc. on your iPod you could always buy a Zune :)

[wackymacky]

surely these "tamper proof" lables will just be able to be bought on line anyway.

So when you buy a new part for the phone, just order a label to go with it?

(Mind you chances are if you're pulling the phone apart it's casue it's out of warrenty any way)

I love the pic by the way. Who would have thought the 4G iPhone would look like a Nokia!

[Vulpinemac]

Apple does ... everything they can to not have to fix something that isn't covered by their ridiculously short 1 year warranty...

Ridiculously-short 1 year warranty? When nearly every other similar product has only a 90-day warranty?

I think Apple hardware should have at least 2 years of warranty FOR FREE, just like any other electronics product, by the way.

Show me any other equivalent electronics product that gives you a free 2-year warranty out of the box. I don't deny that service contracts are available, but 'just any other electronics product' rarely has more than a 1-year limited warranty, and they work harder than anyone to avoid warranty repairs.

On the other hand, having been a factory-authorized repair service technician, I have seen some really screwed-up devices come in for repair under warranty that were more than obviously not covered. "Oh, I never let my cat anywhere NEAR my stereo!" "Then why does it smell of cat p***? Why are the insides coated with crystalized cat urine? Sorry, we'll fix it, but it'll cost you. Cheaper to replace it."

I'm sorry for those who are burned by this kind of policy, but you'd be surprised at just how many people go out of their way to get something for nothing when they don't really deserve it. As yet, I've never had an Apple warranty rejected for the very few times I've had to rely on it. Come on now, most of the time Apple does the repair without question; if they reject it, they usually have a good and visible reason. This is just to ensure that the reason is that much MORE visible--even to the uneducated.

[shakastange]

You can change the battery in an iPod. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Energizer+-+Replacement+Battery+for+Apple%AE+iPod%26%23153%3B+nano/8440001.p?skuId=8440001&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=8440001&ref=06&loc=01&id=1183160885228

For a large percentage of users the battery on a Cell phone or ipod will never be changed, or will only be changed once every 3-5 years.

I think the dumbest thing I've ever heard is wasting money and space to make the battery on a cell phone removable, only to end up with a battery door that is constantly falling off or coming open. I think the "permanent" rechargeable batteries on the iPhone and iPod are absolutely genius.

P.S. before you mention power users who need 2 batteries for their cell phone you should consider the multitude of external batteries available for cell phones and iPods. There is no reason to be limited to one battery charge per day.

And then you realise that notebook batteries seriously degrade after a year or 2 of use. A period when most computers are out of warranty. Meaning you would have to fork out a repair fee for a weak link in a consumer device.

Who is protecting the consumer here? Yes I know the argument, don't buy their products if you don't want to be subjected to that. But we are all aware of the monkey see monkey do mentality on in corporate America. What if this catches on? What if all TV manufacturers force you to take your remotes in for service when their sealed in batteries go bad?

I think the power is really taking a toll on Stevie, moreso than normal. He is too much of a control freak. For someone who allegedly studies Zen, such an attitude seems odd indeed.

[rwilliams]

I'm pretty sure Apple's philosophy is -
If you buy a Panasonic TV, you'd never open it up and change the internal components.
If you buy a Bosch washing machine, you'd never open it up and change the internal components.
If you buy a Samsung Bluray player, you'd never open it up and change the internal components.
If you buy an Apple product...
...you'd never open it up and change the internal components.

You don't need to be a electronics engineer to use a TV. You don't need to be an IT engineer to use a Mac (unlike *!@*).

And, of course if you're so dissatisfied with the water sensors, etc. on your iPod you could always buy a Zune :)

Apple surely can't be stupid enough to think that people would never want to open their computers to upgrade the hard drive & memory. And the water sensors are merely a clever way to avoid liability on Apple's part. They never even bother to check out an iPod or iPhone if that stupid sensor has changed color. The problem could be completely unrelated to whatever drop of water hit the sensor, but all the so-called "Geniuses" have to do is shine a flashlight in there and then claim there is nothing they can do. It's absurd.

[john0879]

I think Apple hardware should have at least 2 years of warranty FOR FREE, just like any other electronics product, by the way.

Two years just like HP, Gateway, and Dell, right?

Not that I wouldn't like a two year warranty, but you need to do some basic research before making statements like this.

[lightpeak]

lol Hey, as some people say to those Psystar supporters: Apple makes their own software to be designed and installed only into the hardware that they build. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Kind of a twist on that sentiment. I don't see the problem. It's not like a computer where you upgrade the RAM or upgrade the hard drive. There's no real reason to open up a iPod Touch/iPhone. If it's broken and within the warranty and not maliciously or carelessly destroyed, Apple should honour their warranty. If they don't, then I guess it's considered by Apple to be a "disposable" product and if you like it enough, you'll pony up the money to buy it new again. If it's beyond the warranty, you can open it up and replace whatever device that you think is possible to be user-replaced. Whether it's in the boundaries of a warranty or not, you open it up like that, you forfeit the warranty.

[*LTD*]

Understandable if people are shoving in unsupported 3rd party hardware into Apple hardware, and then turning around and demanding Apple take responsibility for any ensuing damage while still under warranty.

[kingtj]

I think if they *really* take things to the point where you can't perform basic upgrades though, that will drive customers away from the platform.

Apple really likes to come up with creative ways to scare people away from attempting to service their machines themselves. (EG. I tried to open a 17" white Intel iMac recently, to do a hard drive swap for a friend. Her drive was clicking and about to die, and she barely had the money to buy the replacement bare drive - much less pay for an out of warranty repair. Apple went to the trouble to come up with little internal latches that can only be released by slipping a credit card or similar thin flexible object up through the rear ventilation slots, until you press them just right with the edge of it! I would have never figured that out if I didn't read the instructions on someone's web site -- and it still took a few minutes to hit the second latch just right with the card!)

But at the same time, they seem to have made RAM upgrades easier for users than before, and they're headed that direction with notebook hard drive upgrades too.

Really, I think this particular patent is intended more for the iPhones or iPod Touches (or maybe the upcoming tablet device?) than anything else. These devices get dropped, thrown around, and otherwise abused far more often than someone's desktop or portable computer would. They probably want to know that things like backlit screens failing really are product defects, vs. users knocking the solder connections loose with rough treatment.....


Apple has been making more and more of their devices less user-serviceable. It will get to the point where no one will be able to do anything without paying Apple to do it for them. Its kind of sad really but it does chime with Steve's original vision of the Mac as a computing appliance.

[synth3tik]

Apple's just making it easier for them not to honor your warranty.

[Gradivus]

Apple surely can't be stupid enough to think that people would never want to open their computers to upgrade the hard drive & memory. And the water sensors are merely a clever way to avoid liability on Apple's part. They never even bother to check out an iPod or iPhone if that stupid sensor has changed color. The problem could be completely unrelated to whatever drop of water hit the sensor, but all the so-called "Geniuses" have to do is shine a flashlight in there and then claim there is nothing they can do. It's absurd.

I don't think it's stupidity. I think Apple is trying to move its products out of anorak territory and into the mainstream and I, for one, heartily agree - it'll work wonders for Apple's sales in the long term. PVRs, for example, contain a hard disc; replacing the disc with a larger capacity one means you can record more TV. But no-one does; except dedicated anoraks.

iPods and iPhones are delicate, electronic devices. As with all electronic devices, they need to be treated with care. If someone dunks one in water why should Apple repair it for free? Bear in mind that repairs cost - and those costs will be recovered by increasing the retail price of the products. Why the **** should I pay for someone else's stupidity/carelessness?

By all means campaign for Apple to waterproof their products. If there is sufficient demand I'm sure Apple will give it serious consideration.

[rwilliams]

iPods and iPhones are delicate, electronic devices. As with all electronic devices, they need to be treated with care. If someone dunks one in water why should Apple repair it for free? Bear in mind that repairs cost - and those costs will be recovered by increasing the retail price of the products. Why the **** should I pay for someone else's stupidity/carelessness?

By all means campaign for Apple to waterproof their products. If there is sufficient demand I'm sure Apple will give it serious consideration.

Nice strawman there. I never asked for Apple to waterproof anything. But at least take a look at what's actually wrong with a device instead of shining a little flashlight up into the bottom and instantly assuming that because the strip has changed colors that the defect MUST be water-related. If they can prove that the problem is directly related to water damage, then by all means, refuse service. But their current methods are deeply flawed.

[Prom1]

Just more “we thought of it so we’ll patent it just in case” patents, I suspect. Apple does a lot of that.

Keeps 3rd party's from profiting off of sourcing replacement screens for iPhones/iPods like that of CNN (along with fraudelent housings of lesser quality).

I've used CNN in the past for previous phones like SE K850i & Nokia E71 - quality LOOKS great and like the real factory housings/screens - but if its worse quality you'll only know when they crack/scratch or break.

I'm curious how much per quarter Apple looses to iPhone/iPod replacements for users that have dropped theirs into water and got away with undetectable water damage on the outside (by using hair dryers).

Should Apple Inc implement this for tamper proofing internal laptop batteries then its a GOOD thing that will prevent lawsuits from users that purchased replacement internal batteries and had been injured from their misdoings or the 3rd party's misdoings. Sorry to those that do get injured in the future. Note that I said INTERNAL laptop batteries.

[Ubuntu]

I don't mind the tampering (so much) as long as it only applies to the iPhone. If I can't upgrade a mac without that risk then that is just stupid. Also, I hope they really do make sure the technology is reliable. I recall my iPod touch dying randomly and Apple claiming it was due to water damage - when it wasn't. In the end they actually did replace it, but it took a long time.

[Gradivus]

Nice strawman there. I never asked for Apple to waterproof anything. But at least take a look at what's actually wrong with a device instead of shining a little flashlight up into the bottom and instantly assuming that because the strip has changed colors that the defect MUST be water-related. If they can prove that the problem is directly related to water damage, then by all means, refuse service. But their current methods are deeply flawed.

You have a very good point. I'm pretty sure that (in the UK) Apple will be legally obliged to repair the product if it is a manufacturing fault, regardless of water. As you say, it's their methods that are flawed putting the onus on the customer to prove it wasn't water damage. Again, I'm pretty sure that could be challenged in UK courts.

But I'm not paying for people's carelessness or misuse.

I didn't intend to suggest that you, personally, should ask for waterproofing. But if water is a widespread problem, the collective user base should press Apple to introduce a water resistant model.

[Prom1]

Apple's just making it easier for them not to honor your warranty.

That just seems like the easy way out. Let's think about this.

1. Most cellphones are riddled with buttons and multiple part housings, usually seperate from the screen.

2. ANY manufacturers warranty is VOID where the user Drops & Damages their device, water is splashed or submerged into water and touches the electronic internals (which may or may not hamper performance/user experience).

NOTE: Manufacturers have been using a litmus like paper for decades to detect this in PDA's, cellphones, etc.

3. User replaced housing, screen, or internals ALSO voids your warranty.

Now say again how its just APPLE looking for an excuse to not fulfill the warranty?? You need to check every phone you've ever owned and see if my first 2 points above are absolved from warranty voidance.

Just 5 yrs ago people thought internal batteries in iPods was a BAD thing and offered paltry performance = which they where right and won a sweeping class action lawsuit. Bettery battery technology, newer chipsets, better battery life and better products just killed this notion and not its prefered in the portable music player space.

Apple is NOW doing the same to laptop batteries! The acceptance in laptops by owners is MUCH easier now. For the reasons of Better battery performance (full charge cycles), battery life increased (manufacturer claimed by 2hrs), and in-store replacements & under warranty replacements for cheap help things. Not to mention just 2yrs ago EVERY laptop manufacturer where screwed over by having to front the Battery replacement recall cost on their own due to dangers & faulty batteries. Apple is able to avoid a future situation. Should it occur again & only affecting Apple's laptops - then their obligated to replace it without user cost.

acceleration controlled menu's, although cool can have a BAD user experience when activated accidentally. We'll see though. I cannot figure out which device had this already - maybe a feature phone with j2me app.

[rjohnstone]

You all do realize that these are merely Patent "Applications".
No Patents have been awarded.

I seriously doubt the tamper tape will get one... not a new or novel concept or idea.

Cable TV converters have had similar protective tape on them for decades.

[rwilliams]

You have a very good point. I'm pretty sure that (in the UK) Apple will be legally obliged to repair the product if it is a manufacturing fault, regardless of water. As you say, it's their methods that are flawed putting the onus on the customer to prove it wasn't water damage. Again, I'm pretty sure that could be challenged in UK courts.

But I'm not paying for people's carelessness or misuse.

I didn't intend to suggest that you, personally, should ask for waterproofing. But if water is a widespread problem, the collective user base should press Apple to introduce a water resistant model.

Fair enough, good sir. :)

[thejadedmonkey]

People that open their Apple products don't care that it voids the warranty.

So not true. The warranty doesn't cover any damage I do to my computer, but it does cover poor workmanship. If I upgrade a hard drive, and a year later my fan starts making a noise, there's no reason why my fan's warranty should be voided. I hope this never happens.

[albusseverus]

Both of these are just dumb. The first one explains why Apple is going for non-replaceable batteries in EVERYTHING. To keep the owner out and make reasons not to honour AppleCare.

The second one is probably just to cover themselves if someone else comes up with a practical use for shake navigation. Clearly this isn't practical, but they probably want to own the concept of using the accelerometer for the interface.

[mingoglia]

I've been lurking here for a couple of weeks. Hi, how are you doing...now that the pleasantries are out of the way. :D:D

I was reading a thread here a couple days ago about Apple's licensing with regards to if it's lawful for them to limit what hardware it runs on. A poster had made a point about how they may be able to put whatever they want in the EULA, but if Apple gets enough shares of the "PC" market, anti-monopoly attorneys may take notice as they did with Microsoft. I've read on Windows forums about users being confused as to why Windows no longer comes with many of the applications. These apps are free, but have to be downloaded separately... this of course can be traced back to the whole Internet Explorer fiasco of years past. The reason I bring this up is because a counter-argument was that Apple can do what they want and if you don't like it, you can pound sand. That may be true in the short term, but once you have more and more of a market (like Microsoft did) some anti-monopoly lawyer is going to slap you with a law suit and challenge your "doing what you want".

I promise, I'm trying to make a point and the above is relevant.

We have the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act which was established many years ago. Many have heard of it, but most have heard about it in the context of car companies. This Act covers anything with a warranty. How it's been used in the past with car companies is it basically prohibits manufacturers from denying warranty coverage if a repair was made by someone OTHER than them and even prevents the manufacturers from denying claims when NON-FACTORY parts are used. All of this is of course contingent on said parts/repairs not being what caused the covered product to fail. For example, if I install an aftermarket air cleaner on my car and my differential goes out, they can't void my warranty on the differential. If I come in with sand in my engine, that's another story. In addition they can't void the warranty on my alternator just because *I* was the one that installed that air cleaner and was "poking around" under the hood unless they PROVE I did something to damage something that failed.

Apple may be able to pull BS and deny some warranty based on us "poking around under the hood". It's however just a matter of time before someone sues them under Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act and have them PROVE that you replacing your hard drive or upgrading your memory caused something else to fail. I think under Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act opening up the case just to look and not touch should be lawful and this Act should make those security stickers unlawful.

Mike

[Rocketman]

So. Why does Apple have MacDraw 2010 for their patent applications but not for their Mac computers?

Rocketman

[blackhand1001]

Two years just like HP, Gateway, and Dell, right?

Not that I wouldn't like a two year warranty, but you need to do some basic research before making statements like this.

Yeah, Dell will send a person to you house in person to deal with warranties on there Ultrasharp and business line computers and they come standard with three years of this service. As far as support goes in that regard, apple should take a page out of Dells book.

[powers74]

So. Why does Apple have MacDraw 2010 for their patent applications but not for their Mac computers?

Rocketman

Wait, what?

[maknik]

"I think Apple hardware should have at least 2 years of warranty FOR FREE, just like any other electronics product, by the way."

Two years just like HP, Gateway, and Dell, right?
Not that I wouldn't like a two year warranty, but you need to do some basic research before making statements like this.

Asus has a very nice warranty included with many of their laptops (eg, the popular UL30A) which covers two years, plus accident coverage for the first year. Of course, the appeal of that just proves the point that such warranties are rare.

[pc-proud]

wait, so.. huh!!! Is the flicking navigation something like what the palm pre does or is this different. To me it sounds like the pre navigation or even the iphone going through apps? Oh and this tamper device, is it suppose to kill the device when bent out of shape or just show proof that it's been tampered with?

K

[2992]

Yeah, Dell will send a person to you house in person to deal with warranties on there Ultrasharp and business line computers and they come standard with three years of this service. As far as support goes in that regard, apple should take a page out of Dells book.

That's correct: Dell has indeed sent a person next day and replaced my faulty video board for my 1400USD worth laptop, and that happen after 1 year and 1 month even if my warranty was for 1 year only.:cool:

Aside this, my MacBook is now since 1+1 weeks away from me (I handed in twice as first time they have replace it with the same kind of faulty part) as I had to give it back to Apple to replace the screen/LCD. I've spent already 200USD for going back and forth to their Service Providers for 4+2 times (for the last 2 times I had to cross the border to HK as the local SP did an extremely poor job), and my AluMB is still away... :mad:
Pretty expensive to replace a faulty screen under AppleCare, huh?

Anyways, it's a long story, but at least I have an AluMB, so I can replace the HDD and the battery by myself if I want to.:)

[cameronjpu]

Can we all stop sunday quarterbacking Patents already? 99.9% of the comments get it completely wrong.

I assume that was meant to be ironic ;)

[mattwolfmatt]

My e-machines circa 2001 computer (currently serving as a mac mini table) has this "tamper evident label" on the back. When the sticker is peeled off, it changes appearance. Not really new technology.

[peters438]

So. Why does Apple have MacDraw 2010 for their patent applications but not for their Mac computers?

Rocketman

:)

I want MacDraw 2010. I'm sure I've got an old MacDraw floppy lying around somewhere. Maybe I can get upgrade pricing!

[Erasmus]

If Apple ensure that the RAM and HD of all their computers can be easily replaceable (as they seem to be doing), plus graphics cards and other PCI-E stuff in the Mac Pro, I don't see a problem with this.

I think it's fair enough that Apple don't want you pulling apart your iPod Touch to replace the battery, or pulling out and replacing CPUs. If you screw things like that up, it's not their fault.

[john0879]

Yeah, Dell will send a person to you house in person to deal with warranties on there Ultrasharp and business line computers and they come standard with three years of this service. As far as support goes in that regard, apple should take a page out of Dells book.

I'm not saying that Dell doesn't offer warranties of more than 1 year and I agree that Apple could learn something from Dell as you stated. However, not all of Dell's computers (or other products) come with a warranty that is better than one year.

I think Apple hardware should have at least 2 years of warranty FOR FREE, just like any other electronics product, by the way.

The statement I was responding to implies that all other electronic products come with at least 2 years of warranty coverage.

I'm not a big fan of people making blanket statements like this without doing some basic research. A quick, two minute search confirmed that HP, Gateway, and Dell are at least three companies, probably out of many more, that only offer a one year warranty on at least some of their products.

[Skuman]

Ridiculously-short 1 year warranty? When nearly every other similar product has only a 90-day warranty?

Show me any other equivalent electronics product that gives you a free 2-year warranty out of the box.

Where I live, ASUS laptops have 2 year warranties, plus it's international. It seems like warranties in the US often are only 3 months. That's crazy. Here in New Zealand, 98% of products have a warranty that's 1 year. We also have a special law that says that a product that is sold (not for commercial use though) should "last the typical lifespan". Which means if a washing machine dies before 5 years of use, we can get it fixed for free (although we may have to take it to the disputes tribunal first - cost ~$30).

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Ah, lovely. More attempts from Apple to keep you from replacing your own iPhone or iPod Touch batteries (or you Mac notebooks for that matter; don't expect to upgrade your own ram or anything much longer).

[scottness]

People that open their Apple products don't care that it voids the warranty.

Not true for me.

So we only can go to Apple for service?

Is that what they want with this?

Totally sucks, eh? I prefer to service my own stuff when I can.

[Konstanty]

"Unauthorized opening of devices?" Are we buying these things from Apple, or just renting them?

Apple has been making more and more of their devices less user-serviceable. It will get to the point where no one will be able to do anything without paying Apple to do it for them. Its kind of sad really but it does chime with Steve's original vision of the Mac as a computing appliance.

Oh, well, that makes it all okay, doesn't it?

[newb16]

I wonder if they would use this on the unibody notebooks, since they don't seem to be too keen on regular folks replacing their own hard drives, memory, and batteries. Their current stance is that only Apple authorized people should do these things, correct?

Why should they be keen on folks running mac os on non-apple hardware (hard disks count as hardware) ?

[CQd44]

Why should they be keen on folks running mac os on non-apple hardware (hard disks count as hardware) ?

Doesn't Apple use Seagate hard drives?

Also this seems to be an awful lot of lock-in if they restrict user upgradeability.

[newb16]

Doesn't Apple use Seagate hard drives?

Maybe. But once they put 'qc pass' label on it, it becomes Apple hardware. But when non-authorized upgrade happens, newly inserted part doesn't become Apple hardware.


Also this seems to be an awful lot of lock-in if they restrict user upgradeability.

99% of users wouldn't care.

[scottness]

Maybe. But once they put 'qc pass' label on it, it becomes Apple hardware. But when non-authorized upgrade happens, newly inserted part doesn't become Apple hardware.



99% of users wouldn't care.

I'd say 80% wouldn't care. I know enough people that like to upgrade their own stuff.

[Winni]

Apple appears to have been taking an increased interest recently in addressing circumstances which could result in a customer voiding their warranty due to misuse of or unauthorized access to the internals of their devices.

More patronizing is just what Apple's customers need.

[RichardI]

Can we all stop sunday quarterbacking Patents already? 99.9% of the comments get it completely wrong.

Wow. That puts me in the .1%! That's awesome! Thank you, drifter ;)

Rich :cool:

[shoorty0690]

Anyone else notice this doesn't look remotely like the iPhone 3Gs?
Looks more like the Palm Pixi from the back.

Anyway, it's better having solely Apple fixing Apple products and not a Third party. At least if something goes wrong Apple will be able to fix it. Those Third Party companies are sketchy!

[sdbryan]

Speak for yourself.

I opened up my MBP to replace Apple's slow and tiny HDD with something faster and larger and yet I still expect them to fix my laptop if it fails due to their own poor workmanship. Well I did, until I read about how Apple (dis)honors their warranties here on Mac Rumors and realized that Apple only fixes unblemished notebooks that never get scratched or dinged from actual use in the real world.

Just one counter example from my personal experience. I upgraded my Macbook Pro to 4 GB myself some time ago. Recently it stopped working so I brought it to an Apple Store. The serial number indicated the MBP was from a batch made with potentially faulty graphics chips. When I said the memory chips were not from Apple they said those chips would have to be tested to insure they weren't faulty. The memory chips were fine and the repair (replacement of the motherboard with 4GB which I assume were mine) was done as free warranty service. So if someone claims upgrading your memory chips voids your warranty, I'd have to say that person does not have all the facts.

[Erasmus]

Just one counter example from my personal experience. I upgraded my Macbook Pro to 4 GB myself some time ago. Recently it stopped working so I brought it to an Apple Store. The serial number indicated the MBP was from a batch made with potentially faulty graphics chips. When I said the memory chips were not from Apple they said those chips would have to be tested to insure they weren't faulty. The memory chips were fine and the repair (replacement of the motherboard with 4GB which I assume were mine) was done as free warranty service. So if someone claims upgrading your memory chips voids your warranty, I'd have to say that person does not have all the facts.

But the RAM has always been user replaceable/upgradeable in Apple products, and the hard disk is now that way too. If Apple start using this in their computers, it will only be used on the seals that cover the more complicated parts, like the motherboard, CPU, and GPU. The bits that are easy to damage. RAM and HD are not easy to damage, and if you do, the damage is pretty obvious.

This device is not intended to prevent users from upgrading RAM and HD, but simply preventing people from getting into their computer with a soldering iron to kill it for warranty purposes.

Then again, it's probably not meant for Apple computers at all, just the iphone and ipod. And maybe the tablet.

[mingoglia]

...

This device is not intended to prevent users from upgrading RAM and HD, but simply preventing people from getting into their computer with a soldering iron to kill it for warranty purposes.

Then again, it's probably not meant for Apple computers at all, just the iphone and ipod. And maybe the tablet.

Hope you're right... but we'll all have to wait and see what the future holds.

[mingoglia]

...So if someone claims upgrading your memory chips voids your warranty, I'd have to say that person does not have all the facts.

You're of course correct. However, many are misinformed, even at the store. There can most certainly be folks that are turned away for having upgraded the memory themselves. If the customer doesn't know any better they could be getting "screwed" out of a legitimate warranty claim. Many people even if they thought that wasn't right would unlikely pursue it any further unless it's a very expensive item. A security seal could certainly be used as a scare tactic for the uninformed.

[Azathoth]

This device is not intended to prevent users from upgrading RAM and HD, but simply preventing people from getting into their computer with a soldering iron to kill it for warranty purposes.

It's clear that Apple doesn't want users to open their computers. The number of users that poke around with soldering irons is infinitesimally small.

Legitimate reasons for opening and replacing parts:
1. Price gouging by Apple for RAM and HDD
2. Limited choices regarding the above (Apple benefits cost-wise from using COTS parts, but screws the customer with limited prices/choice)

Apple could design computers that are better able to withstand day-to-day: water guards, some seals, better cases. Contrary to some users' opinions, a laptop, especially one that the manufacturer has the audacity to label 'pro' should stand up to a few drops of rain, sweat and one-handed lifting. Look at the other gear that photographers, musicians etc - Apple's traditional 'pro' market - use. That stuff is not meant to be set up in a hermetic box by white-gloved assistants.

Similarly so for "mobile phones" (as they are called here), 'mobile' being the operative word. Raindrops, condensation etc are going to happen from normal use.
I went swimming in salt water with my old Nokia 1100 a few years ago (forgot to take it out of my pocket when i had to perform a little rescue of a drunk guy in the water). Opened it up, washed it, dried it, and it worked. Sure, it was a much simpler phone, but still it shows the kind of abuse that electronics can withstand.

If / when I buy a MBP for its unix capability and intend to open the thing and replace the HDD (if Apple ever sort out the SATA II problem!) then anyone that denies me warranty service if there is a failure later will be in for a surprise.

FWIW warranties in Europe are often 1-2years, and certain goods should be expected to last significantly longer than this (washing machines, computers, TVs, cars would fall under this category). I've laughed at some of the '90day warranty' carp that certain US products come with.

As consumers we will need to get used to paying higher prices than the extreme price erosion that has taken place, but similarly manufacturers have a responsibility to make better products. Just adding tamper seals to lower warranty claim costs is a dirty little trick that I believe the top tier manufacturers should not be allowed to get away with.

[ChazUK]

When I first saw this patent I was outraged thinking that Apple would use this patent against the consumer to deny warranty repair but then it dawned on on me:

Of you're in a position that you need to take apart an Apple device within the first year of ownership then you'd be far better off taking it to Apple for repair. If you attempt a self repair after the warranty is expired then it is entirely on your back if it goes wrong.

As long as the minimum I'd expect to upgrade was still accessible (Ram in the iMac, hdd and memory in a laptop) I'd be happy with it (as long as there is zero possibility of accidentaly triggering the label that is).

Apple tried to charge me an atrocious amount of money to supply and fit another 1GB of ram into my iMac when I bought it. I declined their offer and did it myself. As long as we can still do that then there is no issue from me.