Kernel panic one after another!?

[MrSugar]

Hi guys... bad BAD news.

So I was using my powerbook today at work, everything was working great. I put it to sleep to bring it back to my office and when I opened it I got a kernel panic, but not the pretty kind that asks you to boot off the computer. Tons of text on the screen. So I rebooted and now every time the computer gets to my log on screen it panics, the "please hold down your power button" image comes up.. over and over :(.. I thought macs didn't do this? I am just flustered what should I do? Reset pram (I did this, didn't help), what else?

[stoid]

This souonds like a hardware problem. I'm thinking that in toting it to work something, probably the AirPort card rattled a little loose. That might be enough to cause these KP's. Just remove, and reseat the AirPort card ans see if that fixes the problem.

[Simon Liquid]

It might not necessarily be hardware trouble. It could just be that the OS got corrupted somehow.I had a similar problem (KP on boot) when I tried to install 10.1 on top of Jaguar without reformatting. If it isn't the airport card, I'd recommend reformatting and trying to reinstall before you go looking for more expensive hardware problems. Handy tip: even when you can't boot, you can usually start in firewire target mode to back your stuff up on another machine.

[Sun Baked]

Have you tried booting into safe mode, run fsck, and Disk First Aid?

[vraxtus]

Hi guys... bad BAD news.

So I was using my powerbook today at work, everything was working great. I put it to sleep to bring it back to my office and when I opened it I got a kernel panic, but not the pretty kind that asks you to boot off the computer. Tons of text on the screen. So I rebooted and now every time the computer gets to my log on screen it panics, the "please hold down your power button" image comes up.. over and over :(.. I thought macs didn't do this? I am just flustered what should I do? Reset pram (I did this, didn't help), what else?


I just had a VERY similar problem with my 12" Rev B. Unfortunately mine WAS hardware related. First I'd recommend you -fsck the disk, then repair permissions. If that doesn't work you may want to clean install the OS... if that doesn't help then do a hard reformat and a clean install. I had the same problem with mine, except mine would only panic intermittently on startup (and it was NOT due to my Airport card, even though I believed it might have been).

[MrSugar]

Have you tried booting into safe mode, run fsck, and Disk First Aid?
I do not know how to boot in to safe mode on a Mac, lol usually it works so well that I never even thought of it.

[sinisterdesign]

i had some KP probs in the past (i think it was in 10.1) and Disk Warrior helped me through the dark times. it was bad enough that Norton couldn't even see my startup disk as a hard drive.

i'm curious how this turns out. keep us updated...

[titaniumducky]

Hi guys... bad BAD news.

So I was using my powerbook today at work, everything was working great. I put it to sleep to bring it back to my office and when I opened it I got a kernel panic, but not the pretty kind that asks you to boot off the computer. Tons of text on the screen. So I rebooted and now every time the computer gets to my log on screen it panics, the "please hold down your power button" image comes up.. over and over :(.. I thought macs didn't do this? I am just flustered what should I do? Reset pram (I did this, didn't help), what else?

Run the hardware test CD that came with your PB. Make sure you use the extended tests.

Also, you can try reseating the Airport Card/RAM.

If it continues to happen, backup everything and do a clean install of Panther. :(

[vraxtus]

Run the hardware test CD that came with your PB. Make sure you use the extended tests.

Also, you can try reseating the Airport Card/RAM.

If it continues to happen, backup everything and do a clean install of Panther. :(


BTW HW tests don't seem to test for jack.

I ran both and no problems showed up.

My 12" just had it's logic board replaced because I was getting panics both when running off my HD or an external.

[IJ Reilly]

BTW HW tests don't seem to test for jack.

I ran both and no problems showed up.

My 12" just had it's logic board replaced because I was getting panics both when running off my HD or an external.

The consumer HW test CD isn't as deep as the one the authorized Apple repair shops use, but it most certainly CAN pinpoint some hardware problems. It has for me at least, and it's ALWAYS better to at least try this troubleshooting technique before reinstalling the OS. In fact I'm dismayed by how many people automatically suggest rolling out the big cannon, given that it almost never solves problems of this kind, which are nearly always hardware-related.

Remove all the RAM you can and any other plug-in items, such as Airport cards, then try it. Troubleshoot in logical, methodical steps and you'll find that carpet bombing is almost never necessary.

[Sun Baked]

I do not know how to boot in to safe mode on a Mac, lol usually it works so well that I never even thought of it.Real easy...

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=153383

[vraxtus]

The consumer HW test CD isn't as deep as the one the authorized Apple repair shops use, but it most certainly CAN pinpoint some hardware problems. It has for me at least, and it's ALWAYS better to at least try this troubleshooting technique before reinstalling the OS. In fact I'm dismayed by how many people automatically suggest rolling out the big cannon, given that it almost never solves problems of this kind, which are nearly always hardware-related.

Remove all the RAM you can and any other plug-in items, such as Airport cards, then try it. Troubleshoot in logical, methodical steps and you'll find that carpet bombing is almost never necessary.


I'm not disagreeing with you per se, but from my experience it didn't really give any solid results.

Furthermore even if it finds a hardware issue, and it's non Airport or RAM related... how do you plan on fixing that yourself? :confused:

[bousozoku]

BTW HW tests don't seem to test for jack.

I ran both and no problems showed up.

My 12" just had it's logic board replaced because I was getting panics both when running off my HD or an external.

I'm in agreement with you there.

I've had power-on-self-tests tell me that one of the processors was failing and yet, the diagnostics CD-ROM told me that everything is fine.

MrSugar:

If you haven't run a disk repair application such as TechTool Pro 4 or DiskWarrior, do so at your earliest convenience. I have often found that KPs are the result of major problems with the volume structure. They can also be caused by faulty RAM and USB devices. I would suggest removing any USB devices to see if the situation continues. Also, if you have removable RAM sticks, try removing them or re-arranging them into the opposite slots.

[vraxtus]

Also, if you have removable RAM sticks, try removing them or re-arranging them into the opposite slots.


He can't rearrange... the main DIMM is soldered to the logic board and there's only 1 free slot.

[IJ Reilly]

I'm not disagreeing with you per se, but from my experience it didn't really give any solid results.

Furthermore even if it finds a hardware issue, and it's non Airport or RAM related... how do you plan on fixing that yourself? :confused:

The hardware test CD may tell you whether it's something you can fix, which much of the time, it is. It might also prevent unnecessary instances of OS reinstalls, which I find are almost never warranted. What puzzles me is why this is the first thing many people suggest as a solution to a problem, instead of something quick and non-invasive, like running the hardware test CD. It pays to take these things step by step, escalating as necessary, instead of taking the most drastic measures first.

[IJ Reilly]

He can't rearrange... the main DIMM is soldered to the logic board and there's only 1 free slot.

He said "if." Removing the RAM from the bottom slot is a good diagnostic technique because it's a quick and easy test, and can't do any harm. I had bad RAM in the bottom slot of my PB, factory installed. It started causing random KPs after I upgraded to Panther. This is a VERY common cause of KPs and can crop up unexpectedly and for no apparent reason.

I also had RAM go bad in my Cube (how, I still don't know). The problem was accurately diagnosed in the hardware test, though for awhile I had trouble believing it and thus wasted a lot of time trying other things. In both cases, after I replaced the RAM, I was good to go.

[bousozoku]

He said "if." Removing the RAM from the bottom slot is a good diagnostic technique because it's a quick and easy test, and can't do any harm. I had bad RAM in the bottom slot of my PB, factory installed. It started causing random KPs after I upgraded to Panther. This is a VERY common cause of KPs and can crop up unexpectedly and for no apparent reason.
...


Thank you! :)

[MrSugar]

Update:

Okay, so I have been working crazy time for the past couple days and just don't have time to really sit down with it. But that might work out okay, here is my plan of attack.

Start up into FW Disk mode and transfer all my files that are not most recent to my G5.

Check to make sure the airport card is seated properly.

Run extended version of Hardware test CD I got with the Powerbook.

This will be a good start I think, if you guys have any other suggestions please let me know.

Thanks so much for everything so far, sorry I haven't been responding as quickly .. time is tight at the moment.

[MrSugar]

Okay, so I went in to re-mount the airport card, but I can't find it on the 17". I looked around and the only really good guide for doing it is on the 15". I think that maybe because the 17" comes with it on all models that it's harder to get to... what should I do? I searched this forum and googled for a bit but no guide that I Could find on how to do it for a 17".. any suggestions?

EDIT: So.. after doing a few more searches (mainly just trying to figure out where the AE card is in my 17") .. I have decided I am not touching it with a 10 foot poll. I am perfectally comfortable working with computer hardware, but I am not comfortable with voiding my warrenty.

http://www001.upp.so-net.ne.jp/medicalmac/im2/17logicb.jpg

[IJ Reilly]

I don't blame you, especially if you're still under warranty, and may in the end need to exercise your coverage. I trust the photo is not of your dissected PB!

If the AirPort card was factory installed, don't worry about that one. The optional RAM should be easy to remove.

How'd the hardware test come out?

[MrSugar]

I re-seated the memory, then booted off panther and ran a disk repair followed by a repair permissions. The first time I repaired permissions it kp'd with text all over the screen but after running a disk repair repairing the permissions worked.

So then I attempted to boot up, it went to a blue screen with the spinning gray cirlce then to a black log on screen for the Darwin console. After trying to log in and not being able to it went back to booting up.

I got to the normal OSX login screen, got into OSX .. so I am a bit cautious, I play around and try things out. Seems fine, however, then I open up my hard drive and attempt to browse to certain directories -- the finder freaks out -- bugs out and re-launches the finder, over and over very quickly.

After another reboot it starts up fine, no odd login screen. I get to the desktop and start trying to go to the same directories as before in the finder. This time after browsing through a couple of them it kernel panics on me... I do a hard re-boot. Now in the middle of booting up, when it is still on the white screen with the apple and spinning gray cirlce is kp's.

Now I put in the hardware test CD .... I will let you know how it goes.


I love my Macs, and I love how perfect and stable they have been up until this point. But I have to say it worries me now that I have seen the bad side of what can happen (until now it has been like living in a dream world I thought would never end). I realize that it could have been something I installed or ran, or perhaps not and some hardware has failed (I will find out soon) either way I guess it's just frustrating and kind of nerve wrecking. Of course in comparison, I have done things like this on windows soooo many countless times it makes me sick.

anyway, again thanks for the help

[MrSugar]

Hardware test came back as all okay and passed. I guess that is good although as some as you have said it might not be totally reliable.

So I have now booted into X (no KPs yet) and am ftping in some info for my company so it is backed up. The system now seems to be fine, but I don't trust it. I have had it up about 20 minutes and browsed around the whole hard drive.. no KP yet.

I still think the best solution is to do a full backup of my stuff onto my Powermac and re-install panther cleanly.

Any thoughts?

[vraxtus]

I still think the best solution is to do a full backup of my stuff onto my Powermac and re-install panther cleanly.

Any thoughts?


And you are right. Back things up, do that clean install and if it still panics (without installing anything else), you have a clear hardware issue on your hands.

[NusuniAdmin]

like other people said it could either be a hardware or software problem. And like others said try backing it up and just reinstalling...i guess...

EDIT: THIS WAS MY 500'th POST...WHOOOOOOOT!!!!!!!!

[IJ Reilly]

Whoa, doggie! Here we go with the big cannons again.

Don't just reseat the RAM, remove whatever RAM you can.

After that, try resetting the PMU. (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=14449)

And before I wiped the drive and reinstalled OSX, I'd either (1) try an archive and install, which at least preserves your user directories, or (2) [gasp!] bringing the PB into an authorized repair shop.

I'm still about 95% certain you've got a hardware problem that will not be fixed by reinstalling.

[yellow]

From everything I've read, I have a suspicion that the problem is related to your hard drive. KPs when accessing certain portions of your hard drive, KPs when attempting to repair permissions and repair the disk, and KPs when the OS is attempting it's post-boot preen.

So, the problem could be a totally corrupted file system. This is something that DiskWarrior or TechToolPro can help fix. You could also back everything up, reformat the disk (I suggest zeroing out all data), and then reinstalling.

Or, the problem could be with the hard drive itself, which is something you should invest the time to send/bring it to Apple to have your disk replaced.

This is all just my opinion of course..

[MrSugar]

Whoa, doggie! Here we go with the big cannons again.

Don't just reseat the RAM, remove whatever RAM you can.

After that, try resetting the PMU. (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=14449)

And before I wiped the drive and reinstalled OSX, I'd either (1) try an archive and install, which at least preserves your user directories, or (2) [gasp!] bringing the PB into an authorized repair shop.

I'm still about 95% certain you've got a hardware problem that will not be fixed by reinstalling.

I only had apple stock ram, if I remove it I can't boot. So I re-seated it. I don't want to archive install due to the fact I upgraded from jag to panther. It is time to clear everything and start new. If this doesn't work I have already talked to apple care and they will take my computer in for repair.

:)

[MrSugar]

From everything I've read, I have a suspicion that the problem is related to your hard drive. KPs when accessing certain portions of your hard drive, KPs when attempting to repair permissions and repair the disk, and KPs when the OS is attempting it's post-boot preen.

So, the problem could be a totally corrupted file system. This is something that DiskWarrior or TechToolPro can help fix. You could also back everything up, reformat the disk (I suggest zeroing out all data), and then reinstalling.

Or, the problem could be with the hard drive itself, which is something you should invest the time to send/bring it to Apple to have your disk replaced.

This is all just my opinion of course..

Thanks man, I think you nailed it on the head. I felt it was time to clean it so I have zero'd all the data and am installing it right now. Hopefully this works, if not maybe it's my HD ... :(

[MrSugar]

Thanks man, I think you nailed it on the head. I felt it was time to clean it so I have zero'd all the data and am installing it right now. Hopefully this works, if not maybe it's my HD ... :(

Looks bad, I tried install with 2 different disks still no go. Box for applecare and HD replacement will be here today.

[titaniumducky]

I re-seated the memory, then booted off panther and ran a disk repair followed by a repair permissions. The first time I repaired permissions it kp'd with text all over the screen but after running a disk repair repairing the permissions worked.

So then I attempted to boot up, it went to a blue screen with the spinning gray cirlce then to a black log on screen for the Darwin console. After trying to log in and not being able to it went back to booting up.

I got to the normal OSX login screen, got into OSX .. so I am a bit cautious, I play around and try things out. Seems fine, however, then I open up my hard drive and attempt to browse to certain directories -- the finder freaks out -- bugs out and re-launches the finder, over and over very quickly.

After another reboot it starts up fine, no odd login screen. I get to the desktop and start trying to go to the same directories as before in the finder. This time after browsing through a couple of them it kernel panics on me... I do a hard re-boot. Now in the middle of booting up, when it is still on the white screen with the apple and spinning gray cirlce is kp's.

Now I put in the hardware test CD .... I will let you know how it goes.


I love my Macs, and I love how perfect and stable they have been up until this point. But I have to say it worries me now that I have seen the bad side of what can happen (until now it has been like living in a dream world I thought would never end). I realize that it could have been something I installed or ran, or perhaps not and some hardware has failed (I will find out soon) either way I guess it's just frustrating and kind of nerve wrecking. Of course in comparison, I have done things like this on windows soooo many countless times it makes me sick.

anyway, again thanks for the help

I don't know... It sounds like a software problem to me. I would suggest backing everything up and doing a clean install. If this fails, send it to Apple :(.

edit: I see you already did that. Well, I guess that means it's Hardware :(

[IJ Reilly]

I only had apple stock ram, if I remove it I can't boot. So I re-seated it. I don't want to archive install due to the fact I upgraded from jag to panther. It is time to clear everything and start new. If this doesn't work I have already talked to apple care and they will take my computer in for repair.

:)

You've got only one RAM stick? As I suggested earlier, even factory-installed RAM can be bad. I had exactly that experience myself, as have a lot of other people, and it caused problems nearly identical to the ones you describe.

Did you reset the PMU? This is the last thing I'd try before shipping the PB back to Apple.

I don't agree with the faulty HD diagnoses. That almost certainly would have turned up in an fsck. And since I've been [ahem] right so far, I'm still betting on either (1) bad RAM or (2) a bad motherboard, with most of my money on the first one, because it is so common and produces exactly the symptoms you describe.

[MrSugar]

You've got only one RAM stick? As I suggested earlier, even factory-installed RAM can be bad. I had exactly that experience myself, as have a lot of other people, and it caused problems nearly identical to the ones you describe.

Did you reset the PMU? This is the last thing I'd try before shipping the PB back to Apple.

I don't agree with the faulty HD diagnoses. That almost certainly would have turned up in an fsck. And since I've been [ahem] right so far, I'm still betting on either (1) bad RAM or (2) a bad motherboard, with most of my money on the first one, because it is so common and produces exactly the symptoms you describe.

It is odd though because it would panic much more often when accessing the hard disk. When installing files to the hard disk, when repairing it, when browsing it, etc. I suppose the ram could be bad, but considering I have had the PB for over a year with no problems until now, I think there is a higher likelyhood the HD would go bad before RAM, correct?

[yellow]

memtest (http://friskythecat.tripod.com/) is an excellent utility to check RAM. Let it run for a long time.. LONG time.. I suggest hours and hours. The longer it runs, the more effective the testing output.

[bousozoku]

From everything I've read, I have a suspicion that the problem is related to your hard drive. KPs when accessing certain portions of your hard drive, KPs when attempting to repair permissions and repair the disk, and KPs when the OS is attempting it's post-boot preen.

So, the problem could be a totally corrupted file system. This is something that DiskWarrior or TechToolPro can help fix. You could also back everything up, reformat the disk (I suggest zeroing out all data), and then reinstalling.

Or, the problem could be with the hard drive itself, which is something you should invest the time to send/bring it to Apple to have your disk replaced.

This is all just my opinion of course..

I wish I'd thought of that. :D

[IJ Reilly]

It is odd though because it would panic much more often when accessing the hard disk. When installing files to the hard disk, when repairing it, when browsing it, etc. I suppose the ram could be bad, but considering I have had the PB for over a year with no problems until now, I think there is a higher likelyhood the HD would go bad before RAM, correct?

It's kind of counterintuitive, I realize, but I had "good RAM go bad" in two separate instances, both within the last year. In both cases the Macs would run fine for a time, or for quite a while even, and then KP or freeze. Both times, the RAM was the culprit (in one case, the RAM had been used in the Mac for over three years!). As for disk access, it could very well be that the RAM is being utilized more intensively during this operation. I really have no other theories about this, but it's been reported so often by 10.3 users that I have to believe that something changed in OSX 10.3 to make it more picky about RAM specs. Apple admits nothing of course.

Resetting the PMU is something I'd also try, because it's quick and painless, and can possibly wipe out some sort of corruption in the VRAM-PRAM settings. Apple recommends this as a trouble-shooting technique.

I can suggest one other diagnostic method, but I presume your PB is already winging its way back to Apple.

[keysersoze]

I'm very sorry to have to say this, but it's a bad logic board. All the things you wrote about from the text to reboots to reboots to more reboots happened on my old iBook G4.

And it was the logic board. Send that sick puppy back. :(

[MrSugar]

Well, I do still have it, but I get a box today and will send it back. I went through a bunch of trouble shooting and really think it's worth it to send it in. Thanks for the help though everyone, I will let you know how it goes.

[IJ Reilly]

Well, I do still have it, but I get a box today and will send it back. I went through a bunch of trouble shooting and really think it's worth it to send it in. Thanks for the help though everyone, I will let you know how it goes.

Yes, please do. I'm going to subscribe to this thread and I hope you'll post the answer when you get it.

[MrSugar]

So, I have gotten my powerbook back from Apple. It is working like a charm, no problems and I have all my stuff installed again (thank god for backups).

I don't think they replaced the hard drive because it still has the two partitions I made on it when trying to install panther before sending it in to them.

Sadly they didn't say what they did to fix it on the repair sheet, all it refered to was software corruption... which is very odd to me. This is because I tried installing both panther and jaguar, and got the exact same problems on both. I suppose they could have replaced the RAM.

I am happy it is working but after all the toil I went through I wish I knew what they did to get it working.

Anyway, thanks for the help everyone, glad to have my PB working in tip top shape again!! :)

[vraxtus]

I am happy it is working but after all the toil I went through I wish I knew what they did to get it working.

Anyway, thanks for the help everyone, glad to have my PB working in tip top shape again!! :)


You can call AppleCare and ask them for a detailed report on what went wrong.

I'm betting it was the logic board.

[MrSugar]

You can call AppleCare and ask them for a detailed report on what went wrong.

I'm betting it was the logic board.

I didn't know this, I will call them when I get some time, thanks!

[IJ Reilly]

You can call AppleCare and ask them for a detailed report on what went wrong.

I'm betting it was the logic board.

Probably that or RAM. If you find out, please let us know. In the meantime, it's good to see that you're up and running again!

[MrSugar]

Probably that or RAM. If you find out, please let us know. In the meantime, it's good to see that you're up and running again!

Yeah, I just got off the phone with support. They replaced the logic board of the computer... crazy. Nice job to those of you who called it.

Thanks again for the great help on this throughout my expirience, it has been great to have a resource like this to turn to! That's why I love the Mac community! :D

[IJ Reilly]

Yeah, I just got off the phone with support. They replaced the logic board of the computer... crazy. Nice job to those of you who called it.

Thanks again for the great help on this throughout my expirience, it has been great to have a resource like this to turn to! That's why I love the Mac community! :D

I do believe I'm being given permission to gloat. :D

Something to remember the next time somebody suggests reinstalling OSX...

[MrSugar]

I do believe I'm being given permission to gloat. :D

Something to remember the next time somebody suggests reinstalling OSX...

Yes, I just re-read all the posts of this topic. You really did have it nailed down from the beginning, I will think twice next time before I do a full re-install.

However, in this case I felt like I needed to do one anyway, so it was a choice I easily came to.

Thanks again, nice job on being right

[vraxtus]

Yes, I just re-read all the posts of this topic. You really did have it nailed down from the beginning, I will think twice next time before I do a full re-install.

However, in this case I felt like I needed to do one anyway, so it was a choice I easily came to.

Thanks again, nice job on being right


Wait... so did I. Where's my credit??? :D

And actually, I was more right on than IJ... his speculation that it was the RAM was not correct...

Told ya it was the logic board :D

[keysersoze]

I'm very sorry to have to say this, but it's a bad logic board. All the things you wrote about from the text to reboots to reboots to more reboots happened on my old iBook G4.

And it was the logic board. Send that sick puppy back. :(

Aha! I win! (along with everyone else :) )

[MrSugar]

haha, okay, okay.

You guys all did a great job... I am in eternal debt, and.... will send you free cookies.

[IJ Reilly]

Ummm... cookies... :)

[rodobrodo]

Kernel Panic At Startup Powerbook G4 17" 1.67 Os X 10.4.11

Good Day

I left my laptop off for 3 months with no baterrie, duo a trip to EU, after trying to turn it on , I could not get pass by the Kernel display,
I did backup my system through firewire as slave HD, I can start the computer holding down shift at startup, but then a few functions wont work, it is just the safe boot.

I re-install my MAC OSX 10.4 then the up date to 10.4.11 but still no lock.

I also try to connect it to the internet via ethernet cable but I guess it is disable.

Still no lock , just try to Reset PRAM and NVRAM and I am still getting the kernel display,
I also reset the PMU and still no lock

but again if I try to turn it on holding shift , the computer start normally on safe boot , and it seems to have no hardware error what so ever.

If anybody has any other ideias I am glad to try..


Many Thanks

rodobrodo@hotmail.com