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quagmire
Aug 9, 2004, 10:31 PM
I found this in 10.3.5. Which I posted in another thread.

/System/Library/Extensions/AppleMacRISC4PE.kext/Content/Info.plist

<key>IOPlatformPluginTable</key>
<dict>
<key>PowerBook7,1</key>
<string>SMU_Neo2_PlatformPlugin</string>
<key>PowerBook7,2</key>
<string>SMU_Neo2_PlatformPlugin</string>
<key>PowerMac7,2</key>
<string>PowerMac7_2_PlatformPlugin</string>
<key>PowerMac7,3</key>
<string>PowerMac7_2_PlatformPlugin</string>
<key>PowerMac8,1</key>
<string>SMU_Neo2_PlatformPlugin</string>
<key>PowerMac9,1</key>
<string>SMU_Neo2_PlatformPlugin</string>
<key>RackMac3,1</key>
<string>RackMac3_1_PlatformPlugin</string>

Powermac 7,3 and Powermac 9,1

Powerbook 7,1 and 7,2

Macrack 3,1

If these are already existing computers please let me now. I did a search through mactracker and found no numbers relating to these.

Sun Baked
Aug 9, 2004, 11:06 PM
http://www.theapplemuseum.com/index.php?id=tam&page=products&subpage=newworld

PowerMac7,2 Power Macintosh G5
PowerMac7,3 Power Macintosh G5 (June 2004)

PowerMac8,1 iMac Generation 3 G5 (September 2004) U3-Lite Chipset

PowerMac9,1 New PowerMac Chipset -- DDR2, PCI-Express, etc. possible

PowerBook7,x New PowerBook and/or iBooks

RackMac3,1 Xserve G5 & Xserve G5 (Cluster Node)

quagmire
Aug 9, 2004, 11:10 PM
http://www.theapplemuseum.com/index.php?id=tam&page=products&subpage=newworld

PowerMac7,2 Power Macintosh G5
PowerMac7,3 Power Macintosh G5 (June 2004)

PowerMac8,1 iMac Generation 3 G5 (September 2004)

PowerMac9,1 New PowerMac

PowerMac7,x New PowerBook and/or iBooks

RackMac3,1 Xserve G5 & Xserve G5 (Cluster Node)


Thanks for the link. So there is 3 unknown computers coming. Those 2 powerbooks(7,1 and 7,2) and that lonely Powermac 9,1.

comictimes
Aug 10, 2004, 01:06 AM
hmm.. that's awesome that there are new computers coming out, and cool that you found it.... but I have to ask. How and why on earth did you find some obscure file like that??

Abstract
Aug 10, 2004, 01:28 AM
Well they're always going to make new computers. Maybe they're preparing 10.3.5 to account for these new machines in case they come out before Tiger.

Okay, I'll admit it. I really have no clue... :(

dongmin
Aug 10, 2004, 02:11 AM
I found this in 10.3.5. Which I posted in another thread.

Powermac 7,3 and Powermac 9,1

Powerbook 7,1 and 7,2

Macrack 3,1

If these are already existing computers please let me now. I did a search through mactracker and found no numbers relating to these.
Good find.

The big news is that the next update of the PowerBooks will come with a new chipset!!! G5 here we come! Or a new G4, perhaps the Freescale e600. Exciting. The iBooks and PowerBooks are due for an update in Oct/Nov. From the look of the numbers, the 15" and 17" PBs will get new chipsets (5x --> 15"/17" PBs; 6x --> 12"PB/iBook) but not the 12". Makes sense.

What is this mysterious 9,1? And when is it coming out?

Nermal
Aug 10, 2004, 02:51 AM
I've been expecting the new PowerBooks to use the e600. This seems to be further confirmation :)

Zaty
Aug 10, 2004, 04:06 AM
Well they're always going to make new computers. Maybe they're preparing 10.3.5 to account for these new machines in case they come out before Tiger.

Okay, I'll admit it. I really have no clue... :(

Possible, but I'm sure we'll see at least one more update to Panther (10.3.6) before Tiger arrives. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw 10.3.7 as well. Don't forget, Tiger could still be 10 months away, so we'll see quite a few new Macs before Tiger.

Squire
Aug 10, 2004, 04:22 AM
Good find.

The big news is that the next update of the PowerBooks will come with a new chipset!!! G5 here we come! Or a new G4, perhaps the Freescale e600. Exciting. The iBooks and PowerBooks are due for an update in Oct/Nov. From the look of the numbers, the 15" and 17" PBs will get new chipsets (5x --> 15"/17" PBs; 6x --> 12"PB/iBook) but not the 12". Makes sense.

What is this mysterious 9,1? And when is it coming out?

Could you please explain how you know (or expect) the new Powerbooks to have different chips? This just might be good news for me. I cancelled my Powerbook order yesterday (shipping delays) and decided to wait for the next revision.

Squire

iNetwork
Aug 10, 2004, 07:10 AM
Bump to the code junkie! woop woop

Jo-Kun
Aug 10, 2004, 07:19 AM
maybe PCI-X 2.0 & PCI-Express on G5

(but I think it silly they didn't add them to the RevB's... but apple does some silly stuff... like waiting for the RevB 12"Pb to add DVI & USB2.0... but it boosts sales I guess??)

when will they add solid state harddrives to their PowerBooks... no moving parts, faster... silent...

they would be the first to do that... and I think its cool...

J

Squire
Aug 10, 2004, 08:58 AM
maybe PCI-X 2.0 & PCI-Express on G5

(but I think it silly they didn't add them to the RevB's... but apple does some silly stuff... like waiting for the RevB 12"Pb to add DVI & USB2.0... but it boosts sales I guess??)

A lot of marketing I suppose. Sometimes it really sucks. Well, one of the reasons I had my heart set on the current 12" PB is because it truly is worthy of the Powerbook badge. (Others complained that the Rev. A 12-inchers were just aluminum iBooks.) I hope they don't pull a bunch of that marketing crap for the next batch, but they probably will. I suspect the 12" models and the combo-drive 15" model to just get a bump to 1.5 GHz if the top two models go with a new chip (be it G5 or e600).

Speaking of which, what does an e600 top out at anyway? If they make their way into the 'books, what processor speeds can we expect and how do they compare with G4 clock speeds? Damn, where's thatwendigo when you need him? ;)

Squire

Squire
Aug 10, 2004, 09:14 AM
Google is great, eh?

http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0,,4126_3482_23,00.html

Next-Generation Performance Today: The e500 Core and Platform
Customers who require higher performance can step up to the e500 core and corresponding e500 platform, which power Freescale’s award-winning PowerQUICC III communications processors. Currently scaling up to 1 GHz, the high-performance e500 core is planned to exceed 1.5 GHz in next-generation process technologies. The e500 core delivers flexibility for application-specific optimizations and leverages application processing units (APUs) for instruction set extensions that are provided for by the PowerPC instruction set architecture. The e500 core is designed to be highly configurable and meet the specific needs of the embedded market, enabling flexible SoC platform solutions that provide an optimal balance of performance, advanced features and power consumption.

Delivering Higher Performance: The e600 and e700 Cores and Platforms
The next planned step in Freescale’s performance roadmap is the e600 core and corresponding e600 platform. An enhanced version of the high-performance G4 core used in the award-winning, high-performance MPC74xx family of PowerPC host processors, the e600 core is planned to scale beyond 2 GHz and to support chip multiprocessing (CMP) while maintaining full compatibility with the PowerPC instruction set architecture. Like its G4 predecessor, the superscalar e600 core is designed to issue four instructions per clock cycle (three instructions plus one branch) into eleven independent execution units, and to include a full 128-bit implementation of Freescale's advanced AltiVec Single Instruction Multiple Data (SIMD) vector processing technology.

Freescale Semiconductor also disclosed today at SNDF its plans to develop the next-generation 32/64-bit e700 PowerPC core and corresponding e700 platform. Processor products engineered around Freescale’s forthcoming e700 SoC platform are planned to be capable of running both 32-bit and 64-bit software and scaling to 3 GHz and beyond in next-generation process technologies.

Will these be in the new notebooks? It sure would be nice. I think I recall thatwendigo saying that they're pin-compatible with the current G4 chips, too. Hmmm...

Squire

Belly-laughs
Aug 10, 2004, 09:17 AM
Speaking of which, what does an e600 top out at anyway? If they make their way into the 'books, what processor speeds can we expect and how do they compare with G4 clock speeds? Damn, where's thatwendigo when you need him? ;)

Squire

I think someone told him off in a different thread... Check out
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?nodeId=02VS0l72156402

There´s lot of info on their site, let´s just hope their plans materialise.

Squire
Aug 10, 2004, 09:31 AM
I think someone told him off in a different thread... Check out
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?nodeId=02VS0l72156402

There´s lot of info on their site, let´s just hope their plans materialise.
I was just reading that page, too. It's basically the same thing but that chart is interesting. It sort of puts things in perspective.

Squire

<edit> So, their PPC roadmap was announced in April. How much progress could they make in 4 months?

quagmire
Aug 10, 2004, 10:04 AM
It is sad that I think freescale will be the hardest comapny to convince apple to put there stuff in it. I don't think they will be putting in new G4's in any rev d's pbooks(rev c for 15") G4's yet. Freescale still has some ties with moto. That could be what is holding apple back and making a deal with freescale. It is great though that they are planning a 2 Ghz G4 and a 3 Ghz G4 64 bit. But, I think unless they can dramaticly increase fsb on the new G4's( maybe to 500 Mhz) the G4's are pretty much dying and only a matter of time the G5's become cool enough to be in pbooks(sometime next year). I say(this is my opinion) freescale has a very short time to get these new G4's out and impress apple before the end of 2005. It could be even shortier time limit if the pbooks G5 are coming in January- WWDC.

Squire
Aug 10, 2004, 10:15 AM
It is sad that I think freescale will be the hardest comapny to convince apple to put there stuff in it. I don't think they will be making any rev d's pbooks(rev c for 15") G4's yet. Freescale still has some ties with moto and apple is possibly ignoring or taking a little interest with freescale knowing its past. It is great though that they are planning a 2 Ghz G4 and a 3 Ghz G4 64 bit. But, I think unless they can dramaticly increase fsb on the new G4's( maybe to 500 Mhz). I have no clue what is actually going on at apple. But, if knowing Jobs is being closed minded on the mac before, I think since Moto blew it Jobs is very close minded on them now. But, this is my opinion.

I know what you're saying but I think, for the exact reasons you stated, the chances of seeing Freescale's products in Macs are higher. I mean, Steve's ego is not a secret but we're seeing G4s in Macs now. Why? Well, because, despite the bitterness about Motorola's incompetence, there's no other alternative. So, Motorola spins off the semiconductor division and calls it Freescale. Jobs and co. can fire up a lawsuit aimed at Moto and, at the same time, place massive orders of their (err...Freescale's) great new offerings without losing face. Everybody wins.

Then again, I could be wrong. ;)

Squire

quagmire
Aug 10, 2004, 10:32 AM
I know what you're saying but I think, for the exact reasons you stated, the chances of seeing Freescale's products in Macs are higher. I mean, Steve's ego is not a secret but we're seeing G4s in Macs now. Why? Well, because, despite the bitterness about Motorola's incompetence, there's no other alternative. So, Motorola spins off the semiconductor division and calls it Freescale. Jobs and co. can fire up a lawsuit aimed at Moto and, at the same time, place massive orders of their (err...Freescale's) great new offerings without losing face. Everybody wins.

Then again, I could be wrong. ;)

Squire

You replied when I was editing my post. But, to your reply. I would think Jobs is smarter then that. If he sue's moto and buys freescale chips, I am sure what ever moto lost in the lawsuit, they would gain back in the chips sold. I think Jobs see's that and instead after the transtion to G5's, he will not buy anymore chips from them.

Then again I also could be wrong. ;)

Squire
Aug 10, 2004, 10:53 AM
You replied when I was editing my post. But, to your reply. I would think Jobs is smarter then that. If he sue's moto and buys freescale chips, I am sure what ever moto lost in the lawsuit, they would gain back in the chips sold. I think Jobs see's that and instead after the transtion to G5's, he will not buy anymore chips from them.

I'm no expert on corporate law but Freescale is, as far as I know, a completely different entity. If Apple sued Moto, I think that would hurt their (Moto's) bottom line. Conversely, if Apple bought Freescale chips, that would boost theirs. Does anyone know anything about post-spinoff corporate relationships?

Legal matters aside, again, Apple might have no choice but to go with e600 chips. Or, they just may be the best option. Who knows? Then again, IBM could be madly working on a mobile version of the G5.

Thanks for the link. So there is 3 unknown computers coming. Those 2 powerbooks(7,1 and 7,2) and that lonely Powermac 9,1.

Back to the original matter, I wonder what the Powermac will be? Could it be the "Cube 2" Mac fans have been craving?

Squire

quagmire
Aug 10, 2004, 10:57 AM
I'm no expert on corporate law but Freescale is, as far as I know, a completely different entity. If Apple sued Moto, I think that would hurt their (Moto's) bottom line. Conversely, if Apple bought Freescale chips, that would boost theirs. Does anyone know anything about post-spinoff corporate relationships?



Back to the original matter, I wonder what the Powermac will be? Could it be the "Cube 2" Mac fans have been craving?

Squire

Powermac 9,1 is 2 possibilties.

1. Powermac G6( really doubtfull)

2. a whole new computer line( big chance)

Belly-laughs
Aug 10, 2004, 12:20 PM
Powermac 9,1 is 2 possibilties.

1. Powermac G6( really doubtfull)

2. a whole new computer line( big chance)

Aaah! The return of the Cube. I´d love a new up-to-date Cube.

quagmire
Aug 10, 2004, 12:35 PM
What a 20th anniversery this would be is apple released all this stuff at Paris. We would have:

imac G5

15" and 17" powerbooks going G5

12" gets new G4 or gets killed

and a whole new computer( maybe a cube resurrection)

Sun Baked
Aug 10, 2004, 01:05 PM
People start getting 2.0GHz PowerMac G5s with the PPC970FX this month and the 1.8GHz machine had momentary stall in shipping recently (maybe they'll make the switch to 90nm.)

So it finally looks like the problems with the 90nm process are worked out enough to get some of the 970FX PowerMacs out the door.

Good news for people actually wanting the iMac G5 soon.

AmigoMac
Aug 10, 2004, 01:36 PM
What a 20th anniversery this would be is apple released all this stuff at Paris. We would have:

imac G5

15" and 17" powerbooks going G5

12" gets new G4 or gets killed

and a whole new computer( maybe a cube resurrection)

You're right, the 12" as Powerbook will be history, we will see 13", 15" & 17" models, 12" & 14" will stay as iBooks, giving wide-screen format to the pro-line and 4:3 for the average joe... Do not forget me... ;)

dongmin
Aug 10, 2004, 02:55 PM
Could you please explain how you know (or expect) the new Powerbooks to have different chips? This just might be good news for me. I cancelled my Powerbook order yesterday (shipping delays) and decided to wait for the next revision.

SquireJust a bit of extrapolation. The move from PowerBook 3,x to 5,x resulted in an upgrade to the chipset (new bus, memory, etc.). I'd expect the same for the move to 7,x.

What degree of change is anybody's guess. It's possible that they'll keep the 7447 but upgrade the bus and memory somehow. But more likely--this is pure speculation on my part--the upgrade will be more dramatic. To a IBM 97x or Freescale e600.

For my money, I'm betting on a G5. Apple has practically confirmed (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030921161035.shtml) that they are currently working on fitting the G5 into the PBs. Also see:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3639825.stm
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/11/20031103185309.shtml

The freescale offerings sound nice but they haven't actually delivered on the e600 or e700. It's all vaporware until they actually ship something. (Yes, I'm aware that the e300 and e500 are shipping. But they've always been able to deliver on the low-power embedded stuff.)

dongmin
Aug 10, 2004, 03:02 PM
You're right, the 12" as Powerbook will be history, we will see 13", 15" & 17" models, 12" & 14" will stay as iBooks, giving wide-screen format to the pro-line and 4:3 for the average joe... Do not forget me... ;)Is this wishful thinking, or an actual claim to fact? We MAY see a 13" PB but not for a while.

If these product numbers are to be believed, the next new machines will be:

15" PowerBook ("Powerbook 7,1")
17" PowerBook ("Powerbook 7,2")
iMac G5 ("Powermac 8,1")
Power Mac G5 using the rumored PPC 975 ("PowerMac 9,1")

AmigoMac
Aug 10, 2004, 04:02 PM
Is this wishful thinking, or an actual claim to fact? We MAY see a 13" PB but not for a while.

If these product numbers are to be believed, the next new machines will be:

15" PowerBook ("Powerbook 7,1")
17" PowerBook ("Powerbook 7,2")
iMac G5 ("Powermac 8,1")
Power Mac G5 using the rumored PPC 975 ("PowerMac 9,1")

Ok... maybe it was pretty early but 13" will come with the G5 ... and yes, there will be a new rev. before the G5 comes...I'm sure I'll get the rev. a but only with a nice graphic card and nice HD, just for Tiger CoreImage/Corevideo it will be worth the money... ohh Spotlight I haven't forgotten you...

dongmin
Aug 10, 2004, 08:06 PM
Ok... maybe it was pretty early but 13" will come with the G5 ... and yes, there will be a new rev. before the G5 comes...I'm sure I'll get the rev. a but only with a nice graphic card and nice HD, just for Tiger CoreImage/Corevideo it will be worth the money... ohh Spotlight I haven't forgotten you...Another G4 revision? I'm doubtful that Apple would introduce a new chipset (as indicated by the 7,1 and 7,2) before they introduce the G5.

Mr. Anderson
Aug 10, 2004, 08:10 PM
I'd be surprised if they came out with another G5 Power Mac before the end of the year - but hey, you never know, this is all speculation anyway.

D

quagmire
Aug 10, 2004, 08:32 PM
I agree with Mr.Anderson(which I Agent Smith hates to do :p ) that Powermac 9,1 is most likely not a Pmac G5 update. I figure it will be a cube resurrection or just a headless desktop.

Sun Baked
Aug 10, 2004, 08:42 PM
I agree with Mr.Anderson(which I Agent Smith hates to do :p ) that Powermac 9,1 is most likely not a Pmac G5 update. I figure it will be a cube resurrection or just a headless desktop.A bit butt here :p

Those machine would either make the list as...

PowerMac7,4 Cube2/Headless machine -- possibility 1 prosumer widget
PowerMac8,2 Cube2/Headless machine -- possibility 2 consumer widget

A PowerMac9,1 indicate a NEW chipset, just like the PowerMac8,1 indicates the introduction of the U3-Lite.

So the PowerMac9,1 would need to show up when DDR2 and PCI-Express show up -- since they would require a new UniNorth Memory Controller.

PCI-X 2.0 is already available from AMD with their 8132 HT PCI-X 2.0 Tunnel and add (200/266 MHz PCI) -- but alas this doesn't require a new Memory Controller.

It's also worth noting that we didn't get a bump with the revised U3H (faster HT, and ECC) or with the revised KeyLargo2 (added PCI slot support).

So a new Memory Controller should have some spiffy new feature. :o

quagmire
Aug 10, 2004, 08:51 PM
A bit butt here :p

Those machine would either make the list as...

PowerMac7,4 Cube2/Headless machine -- possibility 1 prosumer widget
PowerMac8,2 Cube2/Headless machine -- possibility 2 consumer widget

A PowerMac9,1 indicate a NEW chipset, just like the PowerMac8,1 indicates the introduction of the U3-Lite.

So the PowerMac9,1 would need to show up when DDR2 and PCI-Express show up -- since they would require a new UniNorth Memory Controller.

PCI-X 2.0 is already available from AMD with their 8132 HT PCI-X 2.0 Tunnel and add (200/266 MHz PCI) -- but alas this doesn't require a new Memory Controller.

It's also worth noting that we didn't get a bump with the revised U3H (faster HT, and ECC) or with the revised KeyLargo2 (added PCI slot support).

So a new Memory Controller should have some spiffy new feature. :o

So you are saying we are going to see the G6 before tiger?

Sun Baked
Aug 10, 2004, 09:05 PM
So you are saying we are going to see the G6 before tiger?I said, "PowerMac9,1 New PowerMac Chipset -- DDR2, PCI-Express, etc. possible"

New Memory Controller doesn't mean new processor, though putting the Power5-UL (GRUL) on the current memory controller would be such a waste.

DDR2 memory is there in the market in several flavors, and so are PCI-Express video cards -- and there is no longer the pesky ADC problem.

---

The speculation was that the 90nm 970FX processor were supposed to hit at the beginning of the year, with the new Power5-UL hitting the 3.0GHz mark about now.

But things seem to have slid 6-7 months.

Of course this slide doesn't mean the Power5-UL won't show up soon, and possibly before Tiger.

Though we would gain very little from SMT until Tiger shipped.

Mr. Anderson
Aug 10, 2004, 09:48 PM
Though we would gain very little from SMT until Tiger shipped.

But knowing your machine would be more compatible with the future of Apple's OS and more likely a little more longevity..... :D

Do you really think they'd manage this for MWSF 2005?

D

quagmire
Aug 10, 2004, 09:54 PM
Duh. Why didn't I think of this earlier. Powermac 9,1 ia a dual core G5. Stupid Quag stupid.

Mr. Anderson
Aug 10, 2004, 10:17 PM
Duh. Why didn't I think of this earlier. Powermac 9,1 ia a dual core G5. Stupid Quag stupid.

but these would be in the near future? I don't see that as likely, especially with the recent release of the 2.5 GHz

It would really piss people off - waiting months for their dual 2.5 only to see a quad 3.0 show up a couple months later....

D

quagmire
Aug 10, 2004, 10:19 PM
but these would be in the near future? I don't see that as likely, especially with the recent release of the 2.5 GHz

It would really piss people off - waiting months for their dual 2.5 only to see a quad 3.0 show up a couple months later....

D

But, I am thinking about in MCSF in January. I am sure 10.3.5 will still be around. But, then again I could be wrong and just have sc dp 3.0 Ghz G5 at paris.

dongmin
Aug 10, 2004, 10:36 PM
A bit butt here :p

Those machine would either make the list as...

PowerMac7,4 Cube2/Headless machine -- possibility 1 prosumer widget
PowerMac8,2 Cube2/Headless machine -- possibility 2 consumer widget

A PowerMac9,1 indicate a NEW chipset, just like the PowerMac8,1 indicates the introduction of the U3-Lite.

So the PowerMac9,1 would need to show up when DDR2 and PCI-Express show up -- since they would require a new UniNorth Memory Controller.
I wholeheartedly DISAGREE. When the Cube came out in 2000, it shared the same CPU, memory, and bus as the G4 Towers that came out at the same time. And yet, it got a whole new designation, probably because of the the radically different form factor and some features missing, like PCI. The more I think about, I think we will see a new G5 form factor, in addition to the Tower and iMac.

The PowerMac 9,1 is a total wildcard. It'll surprise everybody. Apple's gonna do something to hype up the 25-year anniversary. A new Power Mac, however loaded with new features, is not gonna wow the media and public like a brand-spanking-new iMac or Cube. Be prepared for a major surprise.

CmdrLaForge
Aug 11, 2004, 07:19 AM
I've been expecting the new PowerBooks to use the e600. This seems to be further confirmation :)

Why is this further confirmation ? I don't understand !

Why is anybody expecting powerbooks at all ? I don't see new ones before WWDC 2005 - and then the G5 comes out.

I believe we see new iBooks - which would be great as well.

ibook_g4_user
Aug 11, 2004, 07:27 AM
But, I am thinking about in MCSF in January. I am sure 10.3.5 will still be around. But, then again I could be wrong and just have sc dp 3.0 Ghz G5 at paris.

They may release it in Januari, but then u have to wait to June before they actually ships

CmdrLaForge
Aug 11, 2004, 07:40 AM
I think we see new G5 powerbooks at WWDC 2005 it ships in March or April :(
new iBooks this year October/November with new design. Most likely colored like the iPod mini and the new iMac G5
iMac G5 announced this year August 29th
new Powermacs - quite a while.

sparky76
Aug 11, 2004, 08:41 AM
9,1 could well be dual-core chips. IBM has more experience of dual-core chips than almost any other manufacturer Didn't I read that some of the Power chips had already been produced (maybe as test quantities) as dual-core?
If so, they are well-placed to move rapidly to production. This may be their plan, to make more efficient use of 300mm wafers. Effectively quad 3GHz. Mmmm

Mr. Anderson
Aug 11, 2004, 08:46 AM
Effectively quad 3GHz. Mmmm

it would be really nice to know if this is actually going to happen, but I think it might be just some wishful thinking.

although, do they update the OS for machines they're working on in R&D? It really doesn't seem likely, so this 9,1 machine will have to show up eventually. But why would they put it in the OS so many months before its going to be available?

D

quagmire
Aug 11, 2004, 09:58 AM
Why is this further confirmation ? I don't understand !

Why is anybody expecting powerbooks at all ? I don't see new ones before WWDC 2005 - and then the G5 comes out.

I believe we see new iBooks - which would be great as well.

Let see if you read the beginning of this thread you would of seen computer number. Just to recap Powerbook 7,1 and 7,2 and a Powermac 9,1 were all computer numbers that don't exist. Those numbers were found in the 10.3.5 update. So that tells us we are going to see 3 new computers while this update remains in computers(intill 10.3.6 comes out).

I heard at ai(appleinsider) and forgot the thread though that the e600 was not intended for apple to use.

CmdrLaForge
Aug 11, 2004, 10:04 AM
9,1 could well be dual-core chips. IBM has more experience of dual-core chips than almost any other manufacturer Didn't I read that some of the Power chips had already been produced (maybe as test quantities) as dual-core?
If so, they are well-placed to move rapidly to production. This may be their plan, to make more efficient use of 300mm wafers. Effectively quad 3GHz. Mmmm

Absolutly - you are right. I forgot about the dual chips. But I think dual dual is just wishful thinking. I guess it will be one dual chip per 9.x Powermac.

my 2 cents

Squire
Aug 11, 2004, 10:08 AM
I heard at ai(appleinsider) and forgot the thread though that the e600 was not intended for apple to use.

Not intended for Apple to use or Apple doesn't intend to use it? I think you mean the latter because, as I understand it, it can pop right in where the G4 currently is.

Squire

quagmire
Aug 11, 2004, 10:13 AM
Not intended for Apple to use or Apple doesn't intend to use it? I think you mean the latter because, as I understand it, it can pop right in where the G4 currently is.

Squire

Not intended for apple to use. I could be wrong I don't know. The article was a interview of someone high up in freescale.(in french) What is the e600 intended to due for freescale? The only customer I see currently for freescale is apple. Unless they are not telling us of another customer.

dongmin
Aug 11, 2004, 10:49 AM
Not intended for Apple to use or Apple doesn't intend to use it? I think you mean the latter because, as I understand it, it can pop right in where the G4 currently is.

SquireIt's pin-compatible. But then if all you're doing is swapping the CPU, then it's pointless. What's needed more than anything with the G4 is to upgrade the bus which would mean a redesign of the motherboard.

quagmire
Aug 11, 2004, 10:54 AM
It's pin-compatible. But then if all you're doing is swapping the CPU, then it's pointless. What's needed more than anything with the G4 is to upgrade the bus which would mean a redesign of the motherboard.

Yes, the fsb is the major improvement needed. I think that was more reasoning why apple dumped Moto for the G5. If there is going to be another G4 rev to the pbooks/ibooks I say it will be made by IBM. Do we know the fsb for the e600 if it does find its why into apple products? That 2.0 Ghz G4 rumor in pbooks the G4 is made by IBM not moto. Who could think Moto could do a 500 Mhz increase in one update?

EGT
Aug 11, 2004, 11:00 AM
Hmmm this is very interesting indeed. Nice find.
I don't like dwelling in on what apple plans for the future, its too scary, they are going make me go bankrupt!! :mad: ... but the thought of a new powerbook ...


Heavenly :D

Zaty
Aug 11, 2004, 11:45 AM
Let see if you read the beginning of this thread you would of seen computer number. Just to recap Powerbook 7,1 and 7,2 and a Powermac 9,1 were all computer numbers that don't exist. Those numbers were found in the 10.3.5 update. So that tells us we are going to see 3 new computers while this update remains in computers(intill 10.3.6 comes out).

I heard at ai(appleinsider) and forgot the thread though that the e600 was not intended for apple to use.

The existence of those machine IDs doesn't mean that we'll see new machines before 10.3.6 for sure. It only means there is a possibilty we might. If I remember correctly, the ID PM 7,3 (the current models) first appeared in 10.3.3. which was released in March but as we all know, the new PMs weren't announced for another 3 months. With all the problems Apple (or IBM for that matter) is having, it's not unlikely we won't see those laptops and desktop for some time.

As for the PB, it's interesting, that there is no ID for a new 12" PB. I really don't think Apple is phasing them out already. AFAIK, they sell pretty well. Also, there are no new machine IDs for a new iBook revision.

While I can't say those IDs don't mean anything, we should not read too much into it. One thing seems pretty clear too me, though. No PB G5 anytime soon.

quagmire
Aug 11, 2004, 11:59 AM
The existence of those machine IDs doesn't mean that we'll see new machines before 10.3.6 for sure. It only means there is a possibilty we might. If I remember correctly, the ID PM 7,3 (the current models) first appeared in 10.3.3. which was released in March but as we all know, the new PMs weren't announced for another 3 months. With all the problems Apple (or IBM for that matter) is having, it's not unlikely we won't see those laptops and desktop for some time.

As for the PB, it's interesting, that there is no ID for a new 12" PB. I really don't think Apple is phasing them out already. AFAIK, they sell pretty well. Also, there are no new machine IDs for a new iBook revision.

While I can't say those IDs don't mean anything, we should not read too much into it. One thing seems pretty clear too me, though. No PB G5 anytime soon.

As long as there is no problems there should be those computers before 10.3.6. The pmacs I belive had a release date for March but, had problems and pushed to June. No G5 Pbook anytime soon? Yes, for the 12" but, no, for the rest. Those numbers are meaning for a new chipset. Which is most likely a G5. For the ibook revision I am sure they are going to get updated in November. The 12" pbook may stay a G4 for a while.(intill WWDC 2005 I would say)

windowsblowsass
Aug 11, 2004, 06:17 PM
Let see if you read the beginning of this thread you would of seen computer number. Just to recap Powerbook 7,1 and 7,2 and a Powermac 9,1 were all computer numbers that don't exist. Those numbers were found in the 10.3.5 update. So that tells us we are going to see 3 new computers while this update remains in computers(intill 10.3.6 comes out).

I heard at ai(appleinsider) and forgot the thread though that the e600 was not intended for apple to use.

ughh you found a japenese document that was highly suspicious and didnt come from freescale that said something about low yields. GET OVER IT.

it was bs plain and simple. apple is the only large customor for a high performance freescale ppc chip so why even develop it if it isnt intended for apple? YOU DONT it is intended for apple use.


end rant

wide
Aug 11, 2004, 08:25 PM
It is sad that I think freescale will be the hardest comapny to convince apple to put there stuff in it. I don't think they will be putting in new G4's in any rev d's pbooks(rev c for 15") G4's yet. Freescale still has some ties with moto. That could be what is holding apple back and making a deal with freescale. It is great though that they are planning a 2 Ghz G4 and a 3 Ghz G4 64 bit. But, I think unless they can dramaticly increase fsb on the new G4's( maybe to 500 Mhz) the G4's are pretty much dying and only a matter of time the G5's become cool enough to be in pbooks(sometime next year). I say(this is my opinion) freescale has a very short time to get these new G4's out and impress apple before the end of 2005. It could be even shortier time limit if the pbooks G5 are coming in January- WWDC.

AFAIK, Freescale is a subsidiary of Motorola, which means that they have A LOT of ties to Motorola.

I'm no expert on corporate law but Freescale is, as far as I know, a completely different entity. If Apple sued Moto, I think that would hurt their (Moto's) bottom line. Conversely, if Apple bought Freescale chips, that would boost theirs. Does anyone know anything about post-spinoff corporate relationships?

I don't think Freescale has any plans of become a self-controlled company. Freescale Semiconductor is a subsidiary of Motorola and I believe it will remain that way. Why would Motorola launch a company out of their semiconductor business knowing that it would eventually cease to be affiliated with Motorola?

In the Corporate Overview of Freescale Semiconductor (http://investors.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=175261&p=irol-homeProfile&t=&id=&), it says that The company traces its roots of technology innovation and strong customer relationships back more than half a century, when the Semiconductor Products Sector of Motorola, Inc. began operations.

The first sentence of that paragraph led me to reply in this thread: The company traces its roots of technology innovation ... back more than half a century, when the Semiconductor Products Sector of Motorola, Inc. began operations.

Basically, this says that the roots, or backbone, of some of Freescale's technologies were originally developed by Motorola. After all, Freescale does use some of Motorola's technologies (the G4). I think this might be referring to the e600, which is essentially an expansion of the G4:The e600 core is instruction set and pin compatible with the G4 core used in the award-winning, high-performance MPC74xx family of PowerPC processors

Okay...the e600 uses some old Motorola technologies...but if you return to the the Corporate Overview page (URL above), it says The company expects to complete its spinoff from Motorola, Inc. by year-end 2004.

Rather than meaning Freescale wishes to become its own company, this might mean that Freescale hopes to complete its technologies that have spun-off from past Motorola work by year-end 2004. If my interpretation is at all true, then the e600 processor should be released by year-end.

This is just how I think of it, it may be wrong, yet I think there might be some truth to it. I have not really taken sufficient time to browse the Freescale website and press releases about Freescale's relationship with Motorola, so this entire post might be based off nothing (oops).

edit: ps if you're confused PM or email me and i will try to clarify my ideas.

Sun Baked
Aug 11, 2004, 08:39 PM
I don't think Freescale has any plans of become a self-controlled company. Freescale Semiconductor is a subsidiary of Motorola and I believe it will remain that way. Why would Motorola launch a company out of their semiconductor business knowing that it would eventually cease to be affiliated with Motorola?

Rather than meaning Freescale wishes to become its own company, this might mean that Freescale hopes to complete its technologies that have spun-off from past Motorola work by year-end 2004. If my interpretation is at all true, then the e600 processor should be released by year-end.

This is just how I think of it, it may be wrong, yet I think there might be some truth to it. I have not really taken sufficient time to browse the Freescale website and press releases about Freescale's relationship with Motorola, so this entire post might be based off nothing (oops).

edit: ps if you're confused PM or email me and i will try to clarify my ideas.This portion of public FSL 10-Q Filing may clarify things, which almost sounds like Motorola will get rid of their Freescale ownership by the end of the year.Freescale Semiconductor, Inc. and Subsidiaries
Notes to Condensed Consolidated and Combined Financial Statements
(Unaudited)
(Dollars in millions, except as noted)

(1) Basis of Presentation

Freescale Semiconductor, Inc. (“Freescale Semiconductor”) was incorporated in Delaware on December 3, 2003 in preparation for the contribution and transfer by Motorola, Inc. (“Motorola”) of substantially all of its semiconductor businesses’ assets and liabilities to the Company (the “Contribution”) and an initial public offering (“IPO”) of Company Class A common stock. The Company completed the Contribution in the second quarter of 2004 and the IPO on July 21, 2004. The Company is currently a majority owned subsidiary of Motorola with Motorola holding all of the Company’s Class B shares of common stock outstanding. Prior to the IPO, Freescale Semiconductor was a wholly owned subsidiary of Motorola. We refer to the combined predecessor companies and businesses as the “Company”, “we”, “us” or “our” unless the context otherwise requires. Motorola has advised us that it intends to distribute its remaining ownership interest in us by means of a special dividend to its common stockholders (the “Distribution”) by the end of 2004.Don't know how to answer the why question. :(

But it looks like Freescale is on it's own and Motorola will have nothing to do with it by the end of the year, and once the Motorola will buy x unit from them expire...

I did notice that Motorola has already standardized on the PPC970 for their next batch of telecom racks. They will be selling rebranded IBM PPC970 blade servers for the telecom racks. ;)Originally posted by M.Isobe:
Motorola (not Freescale) sells IBM's PowerBlade

Last month, IBM and Motorola announcement (http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0,,4384_3719_23,00.html) they will promote IBM's BladeCenter to telecommunication market. From this product brief (http://www.motorola.com/mot/doc/1/1448_MotDoc.pdf), Motorola sells 970FX based PowerBlade.

iNetwork
Aug 13, 2004, 05:30 AM
Moto is spinning off Freescale. In your mind you should think that freescale is Motorola Semiconductor. Moto is more interested in making cell phones and radios than processors. It's a tax and profit thing. Large corporations do this so that if one "sector" or specilization of the company fails, it doesn't bring the rest of the company down with it. Additionally there are fewer corporate ties and leadership decisions can be made faster if Freescale answers to itself and not Moto corporate. It's basically a more efficient way of doing business.

While I'm on that rant, besides the bus being faster, I don't beleive that a 1.6 ghz G5 is nearly as fast as a 1.5 mhz G4. Yes the G5 is 64 bit, but even Panther doesn't utilize it. I was poking around in the kernel and it's still 32 bit. Just look at the xbench #'s on cpu speed. This is looking to be what intel did with the P4 line. At first the p3's were faster and the p4 was actually a slower processor until the speeds scaled faster. The chip was introduced at 1.6 ghz. A 2.5 ghz machine IS fast but a G5 powerbook at 1.6 when we have g4's at 1.5 that actually have more processing power...

Back on topic, I beleive we are going to freescale graphics chips and a faster radeon vid card. I think that'll be the only update though. The only thing that makes me think that moto won't go with the freescale is that a 1.6+ ghz cool running freescale will tear apart any G5 powerbook starting below 2 ghz. It's all about how short the pipeline is and unfortunately 1.6 ghz chips aren't considered fast in my book any longer.

</rant>

Squire
Aug 13, 2004, 06:00 AM
Thanks for the clarification, Sun Baked and iNetwork. That was basically how I understood the situation to be, as well.

Squire

quagmire
Aug 13, 2004, 11:08 AM
While I'm on that rant, besides the bus being faster, I don't believe that a 1.6 ghz G5 is nearly as fast as a 1.5 mhz G4. Yes the G5 is 64 bit, but even Panther doesn't utilize it. I was poking around in the kernel and it's still 32 bit. Just look at the xbench #'s on cpu speed. This is looking to be what intel did with the P4 line. At first the p3's were faster and the p4 was actually a slower processor until the speeds scaled faster. The chip was introduced at 1.6 ghz. A 2.5 ghz machine IS fast but a G5 powerbook at 1.6 when we have g4's at 1.5 that actually have more processing power...

Back on topic, I beleive we are going to freescale graphics chips and a faster radeon vid card. I think that'll be the only update though. The only thing that makes me think that moto won't go with the freescale is that a 1.6+ ghz cool running freescale will tear apart any G5 powerbook starting below 2 ghz. It's all about how short the pipeline is and unfortunately 1.6 ghz chips aren't considered fast in my book any longer.

</rant>

By what you say that Panther won't utilize the 64 bit on the 1.6 Ghz G5. That is true. The 1.5 Ghz G4 beating the 1.6 Ghz G5 in Panther is true. B ut, with Tiger utilizing the 64 bit tech the 1.6 Ghz G5 will beat the 1.5 Ghz G4.

iNetwork
Aug 14, 2004, 04:05 AM
By what you say that Panther won't utilize the 64 bit on the 1.6 Ghz G5. That is true. The 1.5 Ghz G4 beating the 1.6 Ghz G5 in Panther is true. B ut, with Tiger utilizing the 64 bit tech the 1.6 Ghz G5 will beat the 1.5 Ghz G4.

We'll see. By the time Apple produces a 64 bit kernel and supporting applications a 1.6 ghz processor will be out of date. I'm sure the next Powermac G5 will be almost twice as fast. Remember the pipeline is much longer on the G5, that's why it performs slower in 32bit than the G4. I have a feeling that the G5 will be slower. As soon as Terrasoft Solutions finishes YDL 4.0 with a 64bit kernel, I'll see if I can't get some benchies knocked out. I'm losing faith in the 64 bit side of Apple. They just don't have the real world performance step-up I had anticipated..

toughboy
Aug 14, 2004, 05:46 AM
Aaah! The return of the Cube. I´d love a new up-to-date Cube.

what a lovely thing would it be, seeing a CubeG5... :rolleyes:

Mord
Aug 14, 2004, 06:36 AM
Moto is spinning off Freescale. In your mind you should think that freescale is Motorola Semiconductor. Moto is more interested in making cell phones and radios than processors. It's a tax and profit thing. Large corporations do this so that if one "sector" or specilization of the company fails, it doesn't bring the rest of the company down with it. Additionally there are fewer corporate ties and leadership decisions can be made faster if Freescale answers to itself and not Moto corporate. It's basically a more efficient way of doing business.

While I'm on that rant, besides the bus being faster, I don't beleive that a 1.6 ghz G5 is nearly as fast as a 1.5 MHz G4. Yes the G5 is 64 bit, but even Panther doesn't utilize it. I was poking around in the kernel and it's still 32 bit. Just look at the xbench #'s on cpu speed. This is looking to be what intel did with the P4 line. At first the p3's were faster and the p4 was actually a slower processor until the speeds scaled faster. The chip was introduced at 1.6 ghz. A 2.5 ghz machine IS fast but a G5 powerbook at 1.6 when we have g4's at 1.5 that actually have more processing power...

Back on topic, I beleive we are going to freescale graphics chips and a faster radeon vid card. I think that'll be the only update though. The only thing that makes me think that moto won't go with the freescale is that a 1.6+ ghz cool running freescale will tear apart any G5 powerbook starting below 2 ghz. It's all about how short the pipeline is and unfortunately 1.6 ghz chips aren't considered fast in my book any longer.

</rant>

your spot on the g5 has a 20 stage pipeline comared to the g4's 7 (the 7410 & 7400 had a 4 stage pipeline which is why my cube is equal to about a 1.4GHz pIV but a 733MHz ppc7450 is equal to about a 1.5GHz pIIII only a small increase

and btw it's GHz not MHz

Mord
Aug 14, 2004, 06:38 AM
what a lovely thing would it be, seeing a CubeG5... :rolleyes:

as i would love a g5 cube it would be expensive and no one but me and annother 100,000 people will buy it :( people will say "for $200 more i can get a dual 1.8GHz g5 with more expandibility, some people will never get it.

iNetwork
Aug 14, 2004, 09:35 AM
your spot on the g5 has a 20 stage pipeline comared to the g4's 7 (the 7410 & 7400 had a 4 stage pipeline which is why my dual cube is equal to about a 1.4GHz pIIII but a 733MHz ppc7450 is equal to about a 1.5GHz pIIII

Thanks for quantifying. :) BTW the roman numeral for 4 is IV :rolleyes:

I hope this will make people realize that the longer pipeline allows the processor to scale in speed but efficiency (work per mhz) is decreased. It took the P4 a 500 mhz increace to be faster than the P3's. The P4 did scale to now 3.6 ghz though!

quagmire
Aug 14, 2004, 11:42 AM
We'll see. By the time Apple produces a 64 bit kernel and supporting applications a 1.6 ghz processor will be out of date. I'm sure the next Powermac G5 will be almost twice as fast. Remember the pipeline is much longer on the G5, that's why it performs slower in 32bit than the G4. I have a feeling that the G5 will be slower. As soon as Terrasoft Solutions finishes YDL 4.0 with a 64bit kernel, I'll see if I can't get some benchies knocked out. I'm losing faith in the 64 bit side of Apple. They just don't have the real world performance step-up I had anticipated..

I know the G5 has a longer pipeline( how many stages does the G5 and P4 have?). Yes, the 1.6 Ghz G5 will be outdated then and most likely won't be in the imac anymore. But, I ws trying to say the 1.6 Ghz G5 running tiger will beat the 1.5 Ghz G4 running tiger.

justinshiding
Aug 14, 2004, 01:15 PM
Good find.

The big news is that the next update of the PowerBooks will come with a new chipset!!! G5 here we come! Or a new G4, perhaps the Freescale e600. Exciting. The iBooks and PowerBooks are due for an update in Oct/Nov. From the look of the numbers, the 15" and 17" PBs will get new chipsets (5x --> 15"/17" PBs; 6x --> 12"PB/iBook) but not the 12". Makes sense.

What is this mysterious 9,1? And when is it coming out?


So , assuming that the 15 and 17 get some kind of update , be it g4 or g5, could the 12in model get a boost from a previously used chipset ?

Example , 15in and 17in get an upgraded g4 e600 at X ghz...would apple's product naming scheme allow for the 1.5 ghz currently in the 15/17in to be moved into the 12in without creating a different product name (x,x ) ?

Or maybe I'm just dreaming.... I've been playing the "wait for an update" game for waaaay too long.

Zaty
Aug 14, 2004, 02:03 PM
So , assuming that the 15 and 17 get some kind of update , be it g4 or g5, could the 12in model get a boost from a previously used chipset ?

Example , 15in and 17in get an upgraded g4 e600 at X ghz...would apple's product naming scheme allow for the 1.5 ghz currently in the 15/17in to be moved into the 12in without creating a different product name (x,x ) ?

Or maybe I'm just dreaming.... I've been playing the "wait for an update" game for waaaay too long.

I guess a new 12" PB will carry a different machine ID. Secondly, the absence of such an ID for the 12" can only mean two things: The 12" will be canned or 10.3.5 already offers support for the newly designed 15" and 17" for testing purpose. Regardless of when the new PBs will be announced, they will run a later release than what we currently have.

PPC970FX
Aug 14, 2004, 04:17 PM
Apple have had a big hit with there xserves, could this be a 4-way xserver with 2.5Ghz??

quagmire
Aug 25, 2004, 02:50 PM
I just found that the pbook 7,1 and 7,2 use the MacRISK4 architecture. Which you notice the Pmac G5, the Xserve G5, and the upcoming imac G5 also use the MacRISK4 architecture. So that seems confirmation for the pbook going G5 at next rev. So I might expect pbook G5's at Paris and keeping tradition of using the cram and jam promotion to empty out inventory.

PS: Sorry for resurrecting this thread.

alexf
Aug 25, 2004, 03:53 PM
While I'm on that rant, besides the bus being faster, I don't beleive that a 1.6 ghz G5 is nearly as fast as a 1.5 mhz G4. Yes the G5 is 64 bit, but even Panther doesn't utilize it. I was poking around in the kernel and it's still 32 bit. Just look at the xbench #'s on cpu speed. This is looking to be what intel did with the P4 line. At first the p3's were faster and the p4 was actually a slower processor until the speeds scaled faster. The chip was introduced at 1.6 ghz. A 2.5 ghz machine IS fast but a G5 powerbook at 1.6 when we have g4's at 1.5 that actually have more processing power...

Wait a second... From what I have seen thee G5 1.6 smokes the G4 1.5. Do you mean without the faster bus?

Squire
Aug 25, 2004, 04:17 PM
I just found that the pbook 7,1 and 7,2 use the MacRISK4 architecture. Which you notice the Pmac G5, the Xserve G5, and the upcoming imac G5 also use the MacRISK4 architecture. So that seems confirmation for the pbook going G5 at next rev. So I might expect pbook G5's at Paris and keeping tradition of using the cram and jam promotion to empty out inventory.

PS: Sorry for resurrecting this thread.

Cool. I guess I'm glad I didn't buy a Powerbook last week, then. Just out of curiosity, what's the most that's been introduced at a major Mac event recently? Two revised products? Hmmm...iMacs and Powerbooks would rule.

Squire

alexf
Aug 25, 2004, 04:25 PM
Cool. I guess I'm glad I didn't buy a Powerbook last week, then. Just out of curiosity, what's the most that's been introduced at a major Mac event recently? Two revised products? Hmmm...iMacs and Powerbooks would rule.

Squire

I hate to burst your bubble, but I really think we won't see
G5 Powerbooks until next year.

Just my intuition, for what it's worth.

quagmire
Aug 25, 2004, 04:34 PM
I hate to burst your bubble, but I really think we won't see
G5 Powerbooks until next year.

Just my intuition, for what it's worth.

By January I perdict 10.3.6 will be out. So if these numbers are true and the architecture is right then we should see pbook G5 at paris. Could Jobs right for once by saying he would like the pbook G5 out by fall? :eek:

Squire
Aug 25, 2004, 04:46 PM
I hate to burst your bubble, but I really think we won't see
G5 Powerbooks until next year.

Just my intuition, for what it's worth.

Oh, don't be mistaken. There's no "bubble" here. ;) I'm just trying to rationalize my decision to hold off on a purchase. I've been eyeing the 12" PB for quite some time but I'm afraid the next rev. won't see much more than a bigger 1.5 GHz G4 and a larger HD. This thread gives me a little hope.

Squire

quagmire
Aug 25, 2004, 05:10 PM
Oh, don't be mistaken. There's no "bubble" here. ;) I'm just trying to rationalize my decision to hold off on a purchase. I've been eyeing the 12" PB for quite some time but I'm afraid the next rev. won't see much more than a bigger 1.5 GHz G4 and a larger HD. This thread gives me a little hope.

Squire

I would wait intill Paris on your purchase. If pbooks get refreshed the 12" pbook will rather get killed(which will give a discount on any inventory 12" pbooks) or be updated to 1.5 Ghz G4 while the 15" and 17" pbook gets a G5 chip running at from 1.6 Ghz- 2.2 Ghz. I have no idea what the speeds will be. But, I would assume apple will want to keep the pbook faster then the imac.

alexf
Aug 25, 2004, 05:17 PM
By January I perdict 10.3.6 will be out. So if these numbers are true and the architecture is right then we should see pbook G5 at paris. Could Jobs right for once by saying he would like the pbook G5 out by fall? :eek:

I still think G5 Powerbooks are a ways off. Even Apple's Directory of Power Mac Product Marketing stated in June that users should not expect G5 PowerBooks this year.

Couldn't it be that Apple has included the new computer so that, in case they have not come out with a new OS update by the time they do release the new computer(s) they would not be forced to just for this purpose - to cover their grounds, so to speak?

From what I have gathered, I also don't think that the 90nm chip will go into the laptops - I think we'll have to wait for IBMs next revision.

Again, all speculation.

Squire
Aug 25, 2004, 05:18 PM
I would wait intill Paris on your purchase. If pbooks get refreshed the 12" pbook will rather get killed(which will give a discount on any inventory 12" pbooks) or be updated to 1.5 Ghz G4 while the 15" and 17" pbook gets a G5 chip running at from 1.6 Ghz- 2.2 Ghz. I have no idea what the speeds will be. But, I would assume apple will want to keep the pbook faster then the imac.

Yes, true. I thought, though, that I'd be waiting much longer for PB updates. If they come next week, I'll be overjoyed. (By the way, what's the deal with "Cram and Jam" anyway? Are the model numbers of the notebooks specified? I always assumed I'd have to wait until after 9/25 for a new 'book.)

Squire

alexf
Aug 25, 2004, 05:20 PM
I would wait intill Paris on your purchase. If pbooks get refreshed the 12" pbook will rather get killed(which will give a discount on any inventory 12" pbooks) or be updated to 1.5 Ghz G4 while the 15" and 17" pbook gets a G5 chip running at from 1.6 Ghz- 2.2 Ghz. I have no idea what the speeds will be. But, I would assume apple will want to keep the pbook faster then the imac.

I don't think it's important to Apple that the Powerbook is faster than the iMac. If I'm not mistaken, I believe it has happened before that the iMacs have been slightly faster than the most current Powerbooks.

Plus, the two products are targeted at different users.

quagmire
Aug 25, 2004, 06:04 PM
Yes, true. I thought, though, that I'd be waiting much longer for PB updates. If they come next week, I'll be overjoyed. (By the way, what's the deal with "Cram and Jam" anyway? Are the model numbers of the notebooks specified? I always assumed I'd have to wait until after 9/25 for a new 'book.)

Squire

In the past apple used the cram and jam promotion to clear out inventory of there notebooks and then screw the people who just bought notebooks by refreshing their notebooks( most of the time it was the pbooks. ibooks didn't get refreshed). Any apple notebook will qualify for the deal. All ibook and pbook models qualify.

alexf
Aug 25, 2004, 06:13 PM
I think the mystery of the 9,1 computer has finally been solved:

http://www.conf.co.jp/new_folder/making/cube_9.html

:)

quagmire
Aug 25, 2004, 06:25 PM
I think the mystery of the 9,1 computer has finally been solved:

http://www.conf.co.jp/new_folder/making/cube_9.html

:)

That will sell worse then the original cube. ;) Plus thats home built. If it was real I would not buy it. The original cube was better designed.

alexf
Aug 25, 2004, 07:30 PM
That will sell worse then the original cube. ;) Plus thats home built. If it was real I would not buy it. The original cube was better designed.

"Introducing the G5 mini."

Well, I would buy it without hesitation if it had all the capabilities and and were comparably priced as its "bigger brother."

To me the biggest drawback to the current G5 design is the size - the thing is huge!

Contrary to what many people write, I think there is now a market for G5 Cube, (especially if the new iMac is not headless) as I think the size of the towers turns some buyers off, especially businesses who have to buy more than one machine.

As I wrote before, the fact that only 2-3 months ago Apple's Director of Power Mac Product Marketing told told us not to expect a G5 laptop before the end of the year is a good indication that they won't be coming at the Expo.

Yet I have been known to be wrong once or twice in my life. ;)

I quote MacCentral:

New G5s announced; no 3GHz or G5 laptops 'any time soon'
By Jim Dalrymple and Peter Cohen
June 09, 2004 8:32 am ET

Apple Computer Inc. on Wednesday announced three new dual-processor Power Mac G5 configurations, with the fastest model topping out at 2.5GHz. The new high-end systems miss the 3GHz mark that Apple CEO Steve Jobs said the company would achieve at last year's Worldwide Developers Conference, but Tom Boger, Apple's Director of Power Mac Product Marketing said it came down to a technology challenge that was bigger than they expected. Boger also said today that users shouldn't expect to see a PowerBook G5 before the end of the year because of the challenges of putting the G5 in a small enclosure.
PowerBook G5 & iMac

Anyone that has seen the heatsink from a Power Mac G5 knows that it would not fit in a portable computer. This is the challenge that faces Apple as it tries to move its pro product line to the new fast processor technology.

"I think it's important to realize that the technical challenges are not trivial putting that G5 in a PowerBook or anything else and not to expect a G5 anytime soon in a PowerBook -- certainly not before the end of the year," said Boger.

quagmire
Aug 25, 2004, 07:34 PM
"Introducing the G5 mini."

Well, I would buy it without hesitation if it had all the capabilities and and were comparably priced as its "bigger brother."

To me the biggest drawback to the current G5 design is the size - the thing is huge!

Contrary to what many people write, I think there is now a market for G5 Cube, (especially if the new iMac is not headless) as I think the size of the towers turns some buyers off, especially businesses who have to buy more than one machine.

As I wrote before, the fact that only 2-3 months ago Apple's Director of Power Mac Product Marketing told told us not to expect a G5 laptop before the end of the year is a good indication that they won't be coming at the Expo.

Yet I have been known to be wrong once or twice in my life. ;)

I quote MacCentral:

New G5s announced; no 3GHz or G5 laptops 'any time soon'
By Jim Dalrymple and Peter Cohen
June 09, 2004 8:32 am ET

Apple Computer Inc. on Wednesday announced three new dual-processor Power Mac G5 configurations, with the fastest model topping out at 2.5GHz. The new high-end systems miss the 3GHz mark that Apple CEO Steve Jobs said the company would achieve at last year's Worldwide Developers Conference, but Tom Boger, Apple's Director of Power Mac Product Marketing said it came down to a technology challenge that was bigger than they expected. Boger also said today that users shouldn't expect to see a PowerBook G5 before the end of the year because of the challenges of putting the G5 in a small enclosure.

When was the last time apple told the truth? They didn't with the 3 Ghz G5. They heard rumors about the pbook G5's and wanted them to be shot down. So they announced that. They also said that they were having trouble fitting the G5 in a consumer machine. Here we are with the imac G5.

True, the cube will sell now. Just I want the design to be better then the original cube. Certainly the home built cube isn't better then the cube.

alexf
Aug 25, 2004, 07:41 PM
When was the last time apple told the truth? They didn't with the 3 Ghz G5. They heard rumors about the pbook G5's and wanted them to be shot down. So they announced that. They also said that they were having trouble fitting the G5 in a consumer machine. Here we are with the imac G5.

True, the cube will sell now. Just I want the design to be better then the original cube. Certainly the home built cube isn't better then the cube.

I don't think that Steve Jobs didn't tell the truth with the 3 GHz "promise." When he made the infamous promise he honestly believed that it would happen. It was an honest mistake, although foolish.

I don't believe that that Boger would intentially lie (but maybe I'm just naïve); if G5 Powerbooks are announced at the expo, it will probably be something that Apple had not expected either just a few months ago.

alexf
Aug 25, 2004, 07:44 PM
True, the cube will sell now. Just I want the design to be better then the original cube. Certainly the home built cube isn't better then the cube.

In my opinion, the original Cube was one of the best designed machines that Apple ever built. Yet I do agree that the Japanese prototype is not attractive - the "industrial strength" design of the tower looks laughable when scaled down...

quagmire
Aug 25, 2004, 07:48 PM
I don't think that Steve Jobs didn't tell the truth with the 3 GHz "promise." When he made the infamous promise he honestly believed that it would happen. It was an honest mistake, although foolish.

I don't believe that that Boger would intentially lie (but maybe I'm just naïve); if G5 Powerbooks are announced at the expo, it will probably be something that Apple had not expected either just a few months ago.

Boger did lie about the consumer problem with the G5. Yes, the imac G5 was delayed. But, most likely it was due to processor shortages and heat on the side. But, here we are with the imac G5 coming less then a week away.

quagmire
Aug 25, 2004, 07:49 PM
In my opinion, the original Cube was one of the best designed machines that Apple ever built. Yet I do agree that the Japanese prototype is not attractive - the "industrial strength" design of the tower looks laughable when scaled down...

That imac G3 gutted for parts and put into a mini G5 case. That looked really cool.

alexf
Aug 25, 2004, 07:51 PM
Boger did lie about the consumer problem with the G5. Yes, the imac G5 was delayed. But, most likely it was due to processor shortages and heat on the side. But, here we are with the imac G5 coming less then a week away.

Did he lie about that? When?

quagmire
Aug 25, 2004, 07:55 PM
Did he lie about that? When?

It was in that article that he stated apple was having trouble with getting the G5 in a consumer machine.

Sun Baked
Aug 25, 2004, 07:59 PM
Boger did lie about the consumer problem with the G5. Yes, the imac G5 was delayed. But, most likely it was due to processor shortages and heat on the side. But, here we are with the imac G5 coming less then a week away.There were/are reliability problems with the PPC970FX, but they only are a problem (most likely) if somebody want to overclock their 2.5GHz PPC970FX (or boost it above 1.3V).

There were/are some problems with the UL Voltage operation (below 1.0V).

But we are getting the PowerMac 2.5 and the XServe is a reality -- so there problem can be worked around for the iMac G5 and possibly the PowerBook.

As the CPU process is tweaked and/or revised thing should look much better.

alexf
Aug 25, 2004, 08:02 PM
It was in that article that he stated apple was having trouble with getting the G5 in a consumer machine.

They were! (Otherwise I think we would have seen it by now.)

quagmire
Aug 25, 2004, 08:04 PM
They were! (Otherwise I think we would have seen it by now.)

Truth is we will never know the whole story behind the imac G5 delay. Most likely there was problems with the yields with the PPC970fx. Heat was probably another factor but, not as much as the yields.

alexf
Aug 25, 2004, 08:11 PM
Truth is we will never know the whole story behind the imac G5 delay. Most likely there was problems with the yields with the PPC970fx. Heat was probably another factor but, not as much as the yields.

Yes, the yield problems are well-known (and are still a problem).

But perhaps the bigger issue in regards to the Powerbook is that the 970fx is very, very hot and still consumes a lot of power (although less than the 970). In fact, I am surprised that they will be able to fit it in an iMac - I think the new iMacs will be pretty large.

I just think that if the Apple marketing guy explicitly stated a few months ago that we should not expect a G5 Powerbook before the end of the year, then I highly doubt that we will see anything until 2005, perhaps even mid-year or later.

After all, Apple is good at getting products out LATER than anticipated, not the other way around.

quagmire
Aug 25, 2004, 08:20 PM
Yes, the yield problems are well-known (and are still a problem).

But perhaps the bigger issue in regards to the Powerbook is that the 970fx is very, very hot and still consumes a lot of power (although less than the 970). In fact, I am surprised that they will be able to fit it in an iMac - I think the new iMacs will be pretty large.

I just think that if the Apple marketing guy explicitly stated a few months ago that we should not expect a G5 Powerbook before the end of the year, then I highly doubt that we will see anything until 2005, perhaps even mid-year or later.

After all, Apple is good at getting products out LATER than anticipated, not the other way around.

Don't forget Powertune. Most likely Powertune is in the imac G5. Will also be in the pbook G5. I read that in a deep sleep Powertune can use 1 watt of power.

alexf
Aug 25, 2004, 08:29 PM
Don't forget Powertune. Most likely Powertune is in the imac G5. Will also be in the pbook G5. I read that in a deep sleep Powertune can use 1 watt of power.

Yes, in a deep sleep - but in high performance mode I think that it consumes a lot.

I think part of the issue may be battery life. Perhaps they already have the capability to put the G5 in a Powerbook but they are afraid that nobody would buy a Powerbook with a 1-2 hour battery life.

quagmire
Aug 25, 2004, 08:33 PM
Yes, in a deep sleep - but in high performance mode I think that it consumes a lot.

I think part of the issue may be battery life. Perhaps they already have the capability to put the G5 in a Powerbook but they are afraid that nobody would buy a Powerbook with a 1-2 hour battery life.

Wasn't there an article back in Febuary-June about fuel cell batteries? That would surely give enough battery life for a G5. Maybe even more life then today's pbooks.

alexf
Aug 25, 2004, 11:41 PM
Wasn't there an article back in Febuary-June about fuel cell batteries? That would surely give enough battery life for a G5. Maybe even more life then today's pbooks.

No, I think it's much too early for that. Here's a quote from a Wired article on fuel cell batteries:

(EDIT: I just realized that this article is from Jan. 2002, so I may stand corrected)

Nevertheless, portable fuel cells are in their infancy. Investment costs to generate 1 kilowatt are still very high, around $10,000 to $100,000 dollars per produced kilowatt.

But Stefener said portable fuel cells may swiftly become cost competitive. "Just in a couple of years, micro fuel cells could be competitive with Lithium-ion batteries, which are commonly used in notebook computers."

(Full article: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,49717,00.html?tw=wn_story_related)

quagmire
Aug 26, 2004, 01:07 AM
No, I think it's much too early for that. Here's a quote from a Wired article on fuel cell batteries:

(EDIT: I just realized that this article is from Jan. 2002, so I may stand corrected)

Nevertheless, portable fuel cells are in their infancy. Investment costs to generate 1 kilowatt are still very high, around $10,000 to $100,000 dollars per produced kilowatt.

But Stefener said portable fuel cells may swiftly become cost competitive. "Just in a couple of years, micro fuel cells could be competitive with Lithium-ion batteries, which are commonly used in notebook computers."

(Full article: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,49717,00.html?tw=wn_story_related)

That is the article. So I was wrong by a little(fine by alot). Question is how long will it last? What speeds will be the G5 pbook. I will be hovering over ts this weekend to see any news. :p I am still not going to believe them if nothing about the G5 pbook. Apple will want to keep this announcment a surprise.(if it happens)

alexf
Aug 26, 2004, 02:19 AM
That is the article. So I was wrong by a little(fine by alot). Question is how long will it last? What speeds will be the G5 pbook. I will be hovering over ts this weekend to see any news. :p I am still not going to believe them if nothing about the G5 pbook. Apple will want to keep this announcment a surprise.(if it happens)

I'm with you: hoping to see G5 Powerbooks announced at the Expo (even though I couldn't afford one anyway), but I'd be willing to bet money that it's not going to happen.

The fact that they've managed to put the chip into an iMac sized enclosure is a big step, but I still don't think the chip is ready to go portable yet. One step at a time.

But in any caselet's sit back and enjoy the show... I guess anything could happen. :)

paxtonandrew
Aug 26, 2004, 05:10 AM
Has anybody thought that the new imac may have a much faster G4 chip in it? I understand that the dual core processors aren't ready yet, but maybe the G4 chip has finally been clocked to decent speeds(>2ghz) *Crosses Fingers*

Don't forget Powertune. Most likely Powertune is in the imac G5. Will also be in the pbook G5. I read that in a deep sleep Powertune can use 1 watt of power.

Pardon me for being naive, but what the hell is the PowerTune chip? Who makes it, and what speeds are we looking at for this CPU?

The G4 is a more than adequate CPU for iBooks and iMacs (please don't flame me) and I believe with a bit of tweaking, we may see a P4 spec G4 chip eventually.

Squire
Aug 26, 2004, 05:15 AM
Has anybody thought that the new imac may have a much faster G4 chip in it?

Apple has already stated that the new iMac will sport a G5 processor. (I think it was in one of the recent conference calls during a financial report.)

Squire

aswitcher
Aug 26, 2004, 05:24 AM
Apple has already stated that the new iMac will sport a G5 processor. (I think it was in one of the recent conference calls during a financial report.)

Squire

Yeah, its definetly G5

quagmire
Aug 26, 2004, 05:28 AM
Has anybody thought that the new imac may have a much faster G4 chip in it? I understand that the dual core processors aren't ready yet, but maybe the G4 chip has finally been clocked to decent speeds(>2ghz) *Crosses Fingers*



Pardon me for being naive, but what the hell is the PowerTune chip? Who makes it, and what speeds are we looking at for this CPU?

The G4 is a more than adequate CPU for iBooks and iMacs (please don't flame me) and I believe with a bit of tweaking, we may see a P4 spec G4 chip eventually.


1. The imac is going G5. The only chip meant for >2 Ghz is the freescale e700 which from what I heard lately is still being developed.

2. The Powertune chip is made by IBM and it is the G5. It is meant for mobile and tight enclosure use. The chip could be scaled at the same speeds as the upcoming imac G5. But, I have no clue.

paxtonandrew
Aug 26, 2004, 06:37 AM
1. The imac is going G5. The only chip meant for >2 Ghz is the freescale e700 which from what I heard lately is still being developed.

2. The Powertune chip is made by IBM and it is the G5. It is meant for mobile and tight enclosure use. The chip could be scaled at the same speeds as the upcoming imac G5. But, I have no clue.

Thanks for putting me in my place. You could say I would rather give a smaller company (freescale) a plug over IBM, who wouldn't be able to get their acts together if they went into receivership! The powertune chip sounds like something for use in the iPod :rolleyes: but if the wattage and heat are low enough, I may have to ebay this PowerBook, and buy a G5!

alexf
Aug 26, 2004, 12:29 PM
Thanks for putting me in my place. You could say I would rather give a smaller company (freescale) a plug over IBM, who wouldn't be able to get their acts together if they went into receivership! The powertune chip sounds like something for use in the iPod :rolleyes: but if the wattage and heat are low enough, I may have to ebay this PowerBook, and buy a G5!

A 970fx chip in an iPod? No, unfortunately the iPod is not going G5 anytime soon.

(But wouldn't that piss people off? The next revision Powerbooks get a faster G4 and the iPod gets the G5!) :)

quagmire
Aug 26, 2004, 12:51 PM
A 970fx chip in an iPod? No, unfortunately the iPod is not going G5 anytime soon.

(But wouldn't that piss people off? The next revision Powerbooks get a faster G4 and the iPod gets the G5!) :)

If the ipod gets a G5 there will be definitly be a hidden feature that will blow the rest of the ipod away. :D

cwright
Aug 29, 2004, 12:23 AM
i'd love to see g5 powerbooks next week so it would leave enough time for a rev b or c by the time i get one for college next year :D

does anyone know if the paris keynote will be broadcast online anywhere?

paxtonandrew
Aug 29, 2004, 01:20 AM
i'd love to see g5 powerbooks next week so it would leave enough time for a rev b or c by the time i get one for college next year :D

does anyone know if the paris keynote will be broadcast online anywhere?

Unfortunately a 10 minute stint googling could not find anything about the keynote, and as Schiller is doing the Keynote, there is a much less of a chance of it being broadcast. It is a shame, but me being in Australia, the Keynote starts at 6PM in Sydney, so the apple Australia site will be getting a good attack from my tribe of working computers! I do expect this site to constantly update with each new product. So, in other words, no live broadcast unfortunately.

aswitcher
Aug 29, 2004, 01:45 AM
Unfortunately a 10 minute stint googling could not find anything about the keynote, and as Schiller is doing the Keynote, there is a much less of a chance of it being broadcast. It is a shame, but me being in Australia, the Keynote starts at 6PM in Sydney, so the apple Australia site will be getting a good attack from my tribe of working computers! I do expect this site to constantly update with each new product. So, in other words, no live broadcast unfortunately.

Well that chat session might give us some live updates at least.

I half wonder if they will broadcast just to show that even without an American audience their new found world focus means they will broadcast...but I would have expected soemthing on their website by now,.

Zaty
Aug 29, 2004, 04:58 AM
I'm still hoping for a live broadcast, although chances are we won't be able to follow the keynote live. Even if Apple was planning to provide a live stream, they would probably announce it on short notice. Why? Because if they announced it early, many Mac fans in the US might decide to stay up late (on the West Coast) or get up early (on the East Coast) to follow it. Without any early announcement, Apple only has to make sure to have enough bandwith for Mac fans between Portugal and NZ. :)

paxtonandrew
Aug 29, 2004, 06:49 AM
Well that chat session might give us some live updates at least.



What do you mean by 'chat session'? Is it the IRC program, or something else?

aswitcher
Aug 29, 2004, 06:55 AM
What do you mean by 'chat session'? Is it the IRC program, or something else?

Yeah, IRC.

I am using Colloquy as suggested by others. Macrumors have a channel (secret) on irc.krono.net and add #macrumors to get on.