VideoLAN Considering Options for VLC as Mac Developers Disappear

[lamadude]

I just read this (http://apple.slashdot.org/story/09/12/16/2145251/Lack-of-Manpower-May-Kill-VLC-For-Mac) article on slashdot, there are currently no devellopers working on the mac version of the VLC player.

Makes me realize how incredibly reliant we are on the work of a very small group of volunteers (for the open source projects VLC and Perian) to be able to play most codecs on a mac!

[miles01110]

Too bad. Something else will pop up to take its place if VLC does get abandoned... it's been happening for years.

[xlii]

handbrake uses a vlc library to rip dvds... there is a ripple effect here.

[GamaFu]

That's really a shame. I love VLC player. As much as I like to help, I don't know much about codec nor obj-c. I've always intended to learn it though, it shouldn't be that different from c, c++, java. Well, all we can do now is to spread the news and let everyone know about it. That way, we might be able to get some programmers' attention.

[Surely]

handbrake uses a vlc library to rip dvds... there is a ripple effect here.

Yup..... I discovered that yesterday when I tried to rip a DVD using Handbrake. No VLC for 64-bits Intel-based Macs.

I ended up using Ripit and then Handbrake to convert it to m4v instead.

From the VLC downloads page:

Note: Owing to the forementioned shortage of developers, VLC will not be available for 64-bits Intel-based Macs until further notice. You can safely use the 32-bits package instead.

[MacUser2525]

Yup..... I discovered that yesterday when I tried to rip a DVD using Handbrake. No VLC for 64-bits Intel-based Macs.

I ended up using Ripit and then Handbrake to convert it to m4v instead.

From the VLC downloads page:

You can get the 1.0.2 64bit version here.

http://downloads.videolan.org/pub/vlc/1.0.2/macosx/vlc-1.0.2-intel64.dmg

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/17/videolan-considering-options-for-vlc-as-mac-developers-disappear/)

A notice posted earlier this month in the forums of VideoLAN, the open-source team behind the popular VLC media player (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/), reveals that a lack of Mac volunteer developers for the software has forced the project organizers to consider new plans for the Mac version of VLC going forward. The forum post, which has since been replaced with a static page (http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=59905#p228791), explains that the lack of manpower on the Mac front has resulted in lagging development, primarily on the user interface.Indeed we have a kind of lack of manpower on the Mac interface of VLC.

The VLC core (in C) and most other plugins work pretty fine, just not the OS X GUI (1% of the code of VLC) in Objective-C.

That explains the issues you have seen in latest version of VLC 1.0.x on mac, and the drop of 64bits version in 1.0.3VideoLAN hints at a couple of tactics for addressing the problem, including a possible shift to the use of an alternative Qt interface. The organizers interestingly note, however, that Apple has apparently been uncooperative in relation to the VLC project, offering roadblocks to the application's development. Aside from VLC's competition with Apple's QuickTime Player, it remains unclear exactly what Apple's objections are.

Article Link: VideoLAN Considering Options for VLC as Mac Developers Disappear (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/17/videolan-considering-options-for-vlc-as-mac-developers-disappear/)

[BRLawyer]

Interface-wise, VLC sucks big time...in fact, apart from its important functions in Handbrake, there is little else to be regarded as essential in VLC...the new QuickTime is much more versatile than before, especially with WMV and Perian.

But I have to ask anyway: where is the "thriving" Mac developer community in times like this? Or is it a matter of difficult personalities in such open source projects?

As I am NOT a developer myself, I am unable to help, sorry.

[Berlepsch]

After reading the linked post from the developers, I believe they do not plan to use Quicktime, but the multiplatform UI framework Qt (basis of the Linux KDE desktop).

[the Helix]

...the new QuickTime is much more versatile than before, especially with WMV and Perian.

However, QuickTime lacks all of the versatility that VLC has in the field of video and sound adjustments not to mention subtitles.

[Erwin-Br]

The organizers interestingly note, however, that Apple has apparently been uncooperative in relation to the VLC project, offering roadblocks to the application's development.

How... surprising. (sarcasm)

Really, Apple, you're becoming more and more annoying to third party developers. Pissing off Adobe, pissing off a bunch of indie developers (and Google) with the idiotic approval process for the iTunes App Store, and now this...

And who have to suffer for it? Your loyal customers. :mad:

[Ja Di ksw]

This sucks, I often have videos that work in VLC but not in Quicktime, so I don't like hearing they're struggling with this. It seems the first step in eventually dropping support altogether.

[homsar]

VideoLAN hints at a couple of tactics for addressing the problem, including a possible shift to the use of QuickTime's interface.

Unless the forum post was significantly different than the current static message, then using the QuickTime interface is NOT the proposed solution. Qt is a widget toolkit used for cross-platform development, and is what VLC is written against on other OSes (particularly Linux). Switching to the Qt interface would make the application appearance less Mac-like but would presumably make development much easier as it would not require a separate team of Objective-C developers - just take the Linux version and set the compiler to Mac. (Obviously oversimplified there a little, but it's easier than maintaining a separate branch.) I was surprised at the interface differences when I switched to Mac last month; in some aspects I prefer the Windows interface, in others the Mac interface.

[aucl]

Interface-wise, VLC sucks big time...in fact, apart from its important functions in Handbrake, there is little else to be regarded as essential in VLC...the new QuickTime is much more versatile than before, especially with WMV and Perian.

But I have to ask anyway: where are the "thriving" Mac developer community in times like this? Or is it a matter of difficult personalities in such open source projects?

As I am NOT a developer myself, I am unable to help, sorry.

Would guess they all working overtime to make some more iPhone apps happen.
About the interface i agree. Also annoying with VLC that when going fullscreen, it blacks-out all screens,...
I use it only for things that quicktime fails to play.

[WildCowboy]

After reading the linked post from the developers, I believe they do not plan to use Quicktime, but the multiplatform UI framework Qt (basis of the Linux KDE desktop).

You are correct...I've fixed the article. Thanks.

[bubba*nix]

Doesn't bother me. I've been using MPlayer OSX Extended for sometime and haven't looked back.

[BoyRacer]

Could VLC's use as a player of copyrighted material (that's been downloaded illegally) partially explain Apple's lack of cooperation?

[Griffter]

I think this is a real shame, I work with video and use VLC on an almost daily basis. There are so many codecs that quicktime still doesn't work with, I would be stuffed without this app!

[homsar]

the new QuickTime is much more versatile than before, especially with WMV and Perian.

Even with Perian, QuickTime still has a horrible delay whilst waiting to convert MKV files before they can be viewed, and they can't be used in Front Row at all. That's in addition to the other objections raised.

[tofagerl]

I've been using Movist more and more due to the better (IMO) interface but I always have VLC laying around for when something doesn't work in Movist.
In short: This sucks. Wish I could help, but I don't grok Obj-C worth a damn, and UIs were never my thing.

[aucl]

After reading the linked post from the developers, I believe they do not plan to use Quicktime, but the multiplatform UI framework Qt (basis of the Linux KDE desktop).

But the Qt is not really free on Mac i think :confused:

[Erwin-Br]

Could VLC's use as a player of copyrighted material (that's been downloaded illegally) partially explain Apple's lack of cooperation?

You can't play downloaded material with Quicktime?

[homsar]

Could VLC's use as a player of copyrighted material (that's been downloaded illegally) partially explain Apple's lack of cooperation?

I think it's more Apple's control freak "WE MUST OWN EVERYTHING ON THE PLATFORM" attitude - that has grown exponentially with the success of the iPhone and App Store - kicking into overdrive.

[BklynKid]

It's not a great player. I use Plex for MKV's as it seems much smoother and VLC only gets love for the occasional WMV.

[miknos]

The only decent player for mac is MOVIST. Plays every codec properly, the subtitles are great (anti-aliased) and the GUI is the best. Here's a screenshot:
http://imag.malavida.com/mvimgbig/download/movist-5804-1.jpg


Detail: The icon is from VLC, but who cares ;)

[*LTD*]

Start charging $1.

In any case, one free mediaplayer disappears, another one comes to take its place . . .

I think it's more Apple's control freak "WE MUST OWN EVERYTHING ON THE PLATFORM" attitude - that has grown exponentially with the success of the iPhone and App Store - kicking into overdrive.

As long as Apple offers the same or better, who cares? All we need for QT is an .mkv plugin of some kind.

[hokkdawg]

Very bummed out. VLC is easily the best all-around media player that requires virtually zero effort to use. As good as quicktime is, I find that in order to play a lot of alternative video formats (matroska, etc) it requires a heapful of external codec downloads and plugins, which don't always work the best.

Hopefully it's not a sign of a dying breed of mac developers, but this is the exact problem that has plagued Apple for decades - there just aren't enough developers writing MacOS software to entice the bulk of consumers & businesses to use the platform.

When you are in the market for a new computer, the consumer has two choices - buy a mac and use the apple software, or buy a PC and enjoy the myriad of office apps, media players, blu-ray compatibility, cutting edge games, fancy graphics hardware, and compatibility with every piece of software sold at the local Best Buy.

At least Apple knows that very few people actually need their computers to do anything except have internet, play music, and play videos. Just need to shake that inferior compatibility stigma that potential customers always use to smack down on Apple.

[rubenerd]

But the Qt is not really free on Mac i think :confused:

Qt can be downloaded for free for the Mac, its dual licenced under the LGPL and commercial.

http://qt.nokia.com/downloads/downloads#lgpl

I've used Qt and like it a lot. Not the most Mac like interface, but if it'll keep the project going I say go for it. In any case the interface VLC has for the Mac isn't exactly that crash hot anyway.

[Berio]

And who have to suffer for it? Your loyal customers.

if loyal customers are suffering, it's their fault for being loyal customers.
buy stuff from other manufacturers, stop being loyal to a corporation.

i don't recall apple promising to cooperative with the VLC developers, so why are you pissed at apple for being uncooperative?

they exist to make money, not to fulfill some hippy dream.

[diamond.g]

Start charging $1.

In any case, one free mediaplayer disappears, another one comes to take its place . . .



As long as Apple offers the same or better, who cares? All we need for QT is an .mkv plugin of some kind.

and an alternate method of subtitle support.

[hokkdawg]

Would guess they all working overtime to make some more iPhone apps happen.
About the interface i agree. Also annoying with VLC that when going fullscreen, it blacks-out all screens,...
I use it only for things that quicktime fails to play.

Actually, blacking out all screens is a customizable thing - I have my VLC set to not black out my main laptop screen, and only be in fullscreen on my external LCD.

[Berio]

Could VLC's use as a player of copyrighted material (that's been downloaded illegally) partially explain Apple's lack of cooperation?

can't you play illegally downloaded material in QT as well?

i presume apple just isn't interested.

[*LTD*]

This makes no sense, anyway. Mac market share is the highest it's been in years. Macs are flying off the shelves every quarter.

There's something else behind this announement from VLC.

[HLdan]

When you are in the market for a new computer, the consumer has two choices - buy a mac and use the apple software, or buy a PC and enjoy the myriad of office apps, media players, blu-ray compatibility, cutting edge games, fancy graphics hardware, and compatibility with every piece of software sold at the local Best Buy.

At least Apple knows that very few people actually need their computers to do anything except have internet, play music, and play videos. Just need to shake that inferior compatibility stigma that potential customers always use to smack down on Apple.

I was with you until you wrote these last 2 trolling paragraphs.:p

[AAPLaday]

Hmm i used to use VLC now and again for some videos. The thing to be concerned about isn't that it is having problems but why it is having problems. VLC is synonymous with playing pretty much anything you throw at it and is always one of the first programs i get for my mac.

[DipDog3]

VLC was always good on Windows and Linux.

I guess every one who develops for the Mac is more interested in making a few bucks from the App Store than helping out VLC.

[alexk82]

I use it for hand brake and that's it. it's going to suck if that goes away

[crisito]

The only decent player for mac is MOVIST. Plays every codec properly, the subtitles are great (anti-aliased) and the GUI is the best. Here's a screenshot:
http://imag.malavida.com/mvimgbig/download/movist-5804-1.jpg


Detail: The icon is from VLC, but who cares ;)


Thank you! I have been looking for a replacement for VLC for a long time!

MOVIST is excellent!

[*LTD*]

Regarding MOVIST:

What's its development like? Does it support everything VLC does? Do the devs plan to stick around and continue to work on it?

[RedTomato]

However, QuickTime lacks all of the versatility that VLC has in the field of video and sound adjustments not to mention subtitles.

+1

I'm deaf and VLC is the ONLY app that can add external subtitle files (in most formats) to any movie file I have. I have many DVDs with no subtitles, (some even state on the box they have subtitles, but actually they don't) and with VLC it's a quick trip to opensubtitles.org or allsubs.org to get the file, load it up and I'm ready to watch. Even works with DVDs.

Another VLC bonus: due to the various frame rates used internationally, the subtitles often start lagging, or preceeding the dialogue. In VLC it's easy to move the timing of the subtitles without stopping the film. Can any other OSX film viewer do this?

If VLC dies, I'm gonna be left up ***** creek.

EDIT: saw the post above about MOVIST. Never tried it, looked for their website, but all I can find is a Chinese language website.

[thejadedmonkey]

I'd be curious towards the specifics of this: Apple has apparently been uncooperative in relation to the VLC project, offering roadblocks to the application's development.

[synth3tik]

So it all comes down to 1% of the code? Suck.

Humm, maybe if instead of roadblocking VLC Apple could have worked to expand the actual payable formats for QT we could have 2 really well rounded apps. Instead we have a pretty one that can't do much, and another one what can do everything except give you a compelling user experience.

[Detektiv-Pinky]

It's not a great player. I use Plex for MKV's as it seems much smoother and VLC only gets love for the occasional WMV.

Well, VLC is far more than just a simple player!

I use it mostly for its very versatile streaming functions (Unicast, Multicast, UDP, HTML,...).
Want to share some video over the LAN to a couple of people: set-up a Multicast stream and everybody can join watching without bringing down your network.

Also very handy for classroom demonstrations of QoS and bandwidth issues for Internet applications. You can 'see' the results immediately rather than looking at abstract packet-statistics.

[mac1984user]

I use VLC exclusively for all of my videos both within the PC and Mac environments. It would be very disappointing if VLC development for the Mac came to a halt or suffered from significant underdevelopment. In any case, we should try to get the word out to people who can help do something about this.

[freefall722]

The "unco-operativeness" from Apple I would guess has more to do with the big Quicktime API transition that is happening right now. (Cocoa, 64bit, etc.)

If VLC is using any QuickTime API calls (which it would be hard not to if your doing anything related to A/V that you want to be compatible with OSX) they would be having a hard time keeping up with all the changes that are happening to that API right now.

I have an application I've written that uses Quicktime API's and I can say it is frustrating when Apple has made core changes in the past.

Although it was frustrating to have to rewrite code it did lead to better performance and usually more efficient code.

That's kindof the thing with OSX programming - Apple likes to shed old API's when they come out with better ones instead of supporting them forever like you see more often on Windows.

[ChazUK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.0.1; en-gb Build/unknown) AppleWebKit/530.17 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/530.17)

I havent used vlc for a long time but a few of my windows owning friends swear by.

Still, I think its a shame to see it in this position.

[Mac OS X Ocelot]

+1

I'm deaf and VLC is the ONLY app that can add external subtitle files (in most formats) to any movie file I have. I have many DVDs with no subtitles, (some even state on the box they have subtitles, but actually they don't) and with VLC it's a quick trip to opensubtitles.org or allsubs.org to get the file, load it up and I'm ready to watch. Even works with DVDs.

Another VLC bonus: due to the various frame rates used internationally, the subtitles often start lagging, or preceeding the dialogue. In VLC it's easy to move the timing of the subtitles without stopping the film. Can any other OSX film viewer do this?

If VLC dies, I'm gonna be left up ***** creek.

EDIT: saw the post above about MOVIST. Never tried it, looked for their website, but all I can find is a Chinese language website.

QT with Perian loads subs just fine for me. I think it has to be in the same folder and have the same exact filename though.

Just downloaded and tried out Movist. It works pretty well, but while the gui is nice I've grown partial to QT's new one. I like that when you have files set to always open in it it still loads the icon previews. They don't seem to preview when you set them to open in VLC.

[Farplaner]

Doesn't bother me. I've been using MPlayer OSX Extended for sometime and haven't looked back.

Same here. Very happy with MPlayer OSX Extended and I've been using it as my primary player as well.

[jon08]

So how does Movist's usability stack up against VLC? Is it really as good?

[shadowguard]

It's not a great player. I use Plex for MKV's as it seems much smoother and VLC only gets love for the occasional WMV.

Yeah PLEX ownes vlc, it plays full hd films rlly smooth where vlc cant handle handle it. But i liked vlc more for other then full hd movies because you can change more things like add subs easy and change the timing of subs etc. and rewind and forward in plex you have to do with buttons.

[Winni]

they exist to make money, not to fulfill some hippy dream.

When developers turn their back on a platform, that platform quickly disappears from the face of the earth and that company won't be making any money anymore. So by co-operating with developers, you're not fulfilling any "hippy dream", you're ensuring your survival. And giving away XCode free of charge just isn't enough. Apple could learn a lot from Microsoft here - Microsoft understands software developers and caters to them. They don't see them as an unwanted competition as Apple seemingly does.

[Tsurisuto]

I hate the interface of VLC and wrote to them around 2 years ago and I got a response saying that they are working on it, but nothing has really changed.

I only use VLC to play MKVs, but if someone developed a better plugin for QuickTime to play MKV files then I would drop VLC in a heartbeat.

[JQW]

The "unco-operativeness" from Apple I would guess has more to do with the big Quicktime API transition that is happening right now. (Cocoa, 64bit, etc.)

I'd waget that the problems are due to VLC including DVD decryption tools, which would cause legal problems for Apple if they did get involved.

[Voltaic]

Interface-wise, VLC sucks big time...in fact, apart from its important functions in Handbrake, there is little else to be regarded as essential in VLC...the new QuickTime is much more versatile than before, especially with WMV and Perian.

But I have to ask anyway: where are the "thriving" Mac developer community in times like this? Or is it a matter of difficult personalities in such open source projects?

As I am NOT a developer myself, I am unable to help, sorry.

If VLC sucks, I am not sure how to describe QuickTime. Maybe pathetic?

VLC has allowed us to view content QT does not support, that list is very long. Additionally VLC is /was free, Apple shamelessly charges $30.

[Jollins]

The only decent player for mac is MOVIST. Plays every codec properly, the subtitles are great (anti-aliased) and the GUI is the best. Here's a screenshot:
http://imag.malavida.com/mvimgbig/download/movist-5804-1.jpg


Detail: The icon is from VLC, but who cares ;)

Wow... This is a seriously great media player. And unlike VLC, it actually has a mac-like interface! I don't know why I haven't heard of it before.

I used VLC primarily for its subtitle file support, but it looks like movist does that too

[teohyc]

I love VLC. It plays almost all sorts of files. Great for beginners, just download and play.

If playing video becomes a pain on the Mac in the future. I hate to say it but I can see myself moving back to Windows.

[jon08]

Meh, I just tried Movist and it keeps stumbling while playing a .wmv file. And VLC plays those same parts just fine.

[*LTD*]

If playing video becomes a pain on the Mac in the future

I don't see this ever happening. If anything, the situation will improve.

[kingtj]

I mean, yes, it apparently is in VLC's case -- but overall, have you ever really looked around on a web site like SourceForge, where all the Linux development projects seem to "go to die"? It's depressing, really. I've so often found a great open-source project someone started as an alternative to a commercial product, only to see that it was last updated years ago, and is basically in "life support" mode with no active developers.

(As just one example, I found a French guy who started working, years ago, on a freeware alternative to the Symantec Ghost Enterprise product for Windows. It let you set up an imaging server and image, or push images out, to any PCs on your network. But nope -- the project seems to have stalled due to lack of interest in coding it any further.)

I think the truth is, a lot of this software is really difficult to write, and only gets done because a few people with a specific and deep skill-set in that area decide they want to work on it. In the case of VLC ,you need people with a LOT of specific knowledge on how various codecs work and on all the intricacies of various image formats and variations out there. You have to know just as much about the AUDIO side too, if you want things like Dolby Surround 5.1 decoding to work properly on movies, etc. etc. What's the chances that these same people have a wide enough base of knowledge to code for multiple platforms? They usually DON'T, so they get stuck and have to ask others to step in and help when they get to wanting to "make a Mac version" or something else. When there's no money involved, it's tough to get volunteers to step up and commit to something like this.

At least in the Linux world, you have some of the companies selling specific Linux distributions who have enough interest in seeing certain projects thrive that they kick some money in, to keep developers working on them. (RedHat does that often, for example.) On the Mac side of things, it's not like Apple is going to pay out money to help someone compete with them!


Very bummed out. VLC is easily the best all-around media player that requires virtually zero effort to use. As good as quicktime is, I find that in order to play a lot of alternative video formats (matroska, etc) it requires a heapful of external codec downloads and plugins, which don't always work the best.

Hopefully it's not a sign of a dying breed of mac developers, but this is the exact problem that has plagued Apple for decades - there just aren't enough developers writing MacOS software to entice the bulk of consumers & businesses to use the platform.

[red42]

Well to be honest I'm pretty sure that apple is going to have a tough time ahead. Windows 7 has caught up to, and in some cases BEATS Snow Leopard. I'm currently finding myself using W7 much much more than Snow Leopard.

Maybe now that Apple has a foothold in the mobile phones sector and the music sector they might give up computers? Or maybe make a dual platform that works with Windows.

[applesupergeek]

Interface-wise, VLC sucks big time...in fact, apart from its important functions in Handbrake, there is little else to be regarded as essential in VLC...the new QuickTime is much more versatile than before, especially with WMV and Perian.

But I have to ask anyway: where are the "thriving" Mac developer community in times like this? Or is it a matter of difficult personalities in such open source projects?

As I am NOT a developer myself, I am unable to help, sorry.

I don't agree there, vlc is excellent, it's just that the interface need a brush up, I am underwhelmed by quicktime X, of course it's a huge improvement and it beats anything commercial hands down, but there are some blatant omissions like playlist support, customizability and still the .wmv playback (for all our stashed porn) is choppy at best, vlc handles .wmv much better. (although since I 've installed flip4mac I am kinda confused at to if in snow leopard it takes up its role in quicktime x playback or not...I will have to look into that).

I think the open source community should figure out an open an easy scheme for the average person to be able to contribute...as much as I like open source I think the project leaves some things to be desired...sort of like an app store for open source where with a nominal say $25 per year or something you will get all open source software and spread around accordingly...but I doubt our beloved geeks will ever figure this out, makes little sense in their mindframes

[mdntcallr]

Apple is probably stonewalling VLC because they do NOT want Blu-Ray discs playing on Macs.

Which is a shame, cause there are alot of great movies i want to watch on my mac, and no... hate taking up hard drive space for digital copies. so i want built in Blu-Ray

[Chobit]

Did movist steal macrabbit's replacement VLC icon? You can even clearly read "VLC" on it.

(vlc replacement icons here)
http://macrabbit.com/goodies/

[Winni]

As long as Apple offers the same or better, who cares? All we need for QT is an .mkv plugin of some kind.

The thing is that Apple neither offers the same nor do they offer anything better. The reason why people download and use VLC on OS X is that QuickTime Player simply doesn't cut it and lacks the support for a large amount of common - and uncommon - video and audio formats.

Sure, there are Third Party plugins for QuickTime. But they are THIRD PARTY solutions. It's not Apple who make QuickTime usable.

VLC is also Third Party, but comes with everything needed out of the box.

And besides that, there are enough users for whom the words FREEDOM and CHOICE mean something. That are usually users who do not want to be locked into one vendor - and his "good will" to keep supporting certain features that some of their customers want to have or simply need.

If Apple had their way, you'd only be watching rented movies with your QuickTime Player. I don't know about you, but I certainly do not want to support that.

[blackmoses]

can't you play illegally downloaded material in QT as well?

i presume apple just isn't interested.

It's probably because of the libdvdcss library it uses to play DVD files. It's never been legally challenged, but a lot of the Linux distros do not include it because of fear of legal repercussions (you're of course able to install it on your own).

I can't imagine they'd have any other reason to block any part of VLC. I'd like to know the specifics of what the problems are.

[RedTomato]

QT with Perian loads subs just fine for me. I think it has to be in the same folder and have the same exact filename though.

Just downloaded and tried out Movist. It works pretty well ...

Can QT/Perian or Movist alter subtitle timings? TBH I don't do that as much as I used to, now that subtitle websites are better organised, but I still need it sometimes.

[Corrode]

I use VLC to play all the movies on my computer. Quicktime may allow you to use subtitles, but good luck turning them off.

Also, when using Quicktime to stream video, you can't skip ahead unless it's buffered. VLC allows you to skip to any part of a streaming video, and then buffer from whichever point you set.

Ever try and watch a video where the audio and video didn't sync properly? Well no problem with VLC. Takes only a second to fix. Can you do that with Quicktime? No.

MKVs also suck on Quicktime. It's an inferior video player and I'm happy VLC is around. I would also be happy to donate some money to them in the near future or even pay for the app.

My 2c.

[AAPLaday]

Quicktime is fine if you just want to play movie trailers off Apple.com but if you need to play any other video types VLC was superb and free

[baryon]

I have VLC just in case a video file wouldn't play, but I only use it on these rare occasions (corrupt file, unfinished download, etc...). But VLC's interface is horrible, there's a small window with the playback controls on it, and then there's the video window, with again, the playback controls at the bottom. What's the point of having two windows? I would seriously like VLC as a plugin for QuickTime just like Perian, I like having ONE player to play everything.

[jaw04005]

I’ve been using VLC for years and it plays practically everything. In fact, I use it with WMV files simply because it doesn’t have to pre-cache them like QuickTime X and Flip4Mac. Not to mention, it plays practically every DivX file too without spamming your Mac with unnecessary trial software like actual DivX (DivX convertor, DivX player, etc).

It’ll be a shame if it goes away.

[inlovewithi]

Every video players plays every codec on Windows, it's one of the reasons why I mainly use Windows when I turn on my MacBook. I haven't tried QT in a while, but I remember needing to pay for the ability to watch a video in full screen. That's a big no to me.

[exFictitiouZ]

Plex works great for mkv files in my experience

[zosoaudo007]

I'm a huge Apple fan, but they are the world's biggest and worst corporate software cockblock.

[Joe Hill]

This MacBook Pro is my last Apple computer, my next computer will run Linux. **** Apple.

[blackmoses]

Every video players plays every codec on Windows, it's one of the reasons why I mainly use Windows when I turn on my MacBook. I haven't tried QT in a while, but I remember needing to pay for the ability to watch a video in full screen. That's a big no to me.

You haven't used QuickTime in a long time, then. Full-screen is no longer exclusive to QuickTime Plus.

As for "every video player plays every codec in Windows", that's only true if you install all of the codecs required to play each type of video. That's no different than how the setup works in QuickTime: you have ot install additional codecs to get certain types of files to play back.

[applesupergeek]

Well to be honest I'm pretty sure that apple is going to have a tough time ahead. Windows 7 has caught up to, and in some cases BEATS Snow Leopard. I'm currently finding myself using W7 much much more than Snow Leopard.

Maybe now that Apple has a foothold in the mobile phones sector and the music sector they might give up computers? Or maybe make a dual platform that works with Windows.

I don't mean to be offensive and I apologize if you take offense but what a load of rubbish. I 'll give you credit for being sly and ironic, but anyway you cut it saying that what with their mobile phone and music prowess apple will "give up computers" is nothing short of provocative.

But maybe M$ after years of monopoly and gazilionth of dollars poured in windows mobile platforms, horrible drm, and failed music business are most probably give up computing altogether.

You come here with this mocking tone, but you are really embarrassing yourself for disregarding a company that outwitted all the established mobile phone players AND the music business AND the computer operating systems business. That is nothing short of genius. If you said to anyone 6-7 years ago that apple would DOMINATE both cd (music) sales AND the hardware that will run them AND the mobile phone market most industry analyst and pundits (the morons at engadget say) would laugh in ridicule. Well, who's laughing now.

[AAPLaday]

But maybe M$ after years of monopoly and gazilionth of dollars poured in windows mobile platforms, horrible drm, and failed music business are most probably give up computing altogether.

You cant say horrible DRM when up until recently iTunes was riddled with it. :p

[applesupergeek]

Every video players plays every codec on Windows, it's one of the reasons why I mainly use Windows when I turn on my MacBook. I haven't tried QT in a while, but I remember needing to pay for the ability to watch a video in full screen. That's a big no to me.

You are misinformed there, windows plays "every file" only if you keep downloading all the codecs on the globe, and then windows media player would only perform very mediocrly with most codecs.

Hence most current an past windows users (the later being myself) have vlc to play everything for them instead. And vlc is open source and available for mac too.

Plus the new architecture of Quicktime X both outwards and inwards, runs circles and circles and circles around the stupidity that is window media player, a half baked effort at a media manager/jukebox-video player-music player-shop-shill for everything MS. I don't know why the idiots in MS never thought of the brilliant idea of a separate video and music player, but there you have it, I kind of answered my question, it's usual for them to miss the bloody obvious.

[inlovewithi]

You haven't used QuickTime in a long time, then. Full-screen is no longer exclusive to QuickTime Plus.

As for "every video player plays every codec in Windows", that's only true if you install all of the codecs required to play each type of video. That's no different than how the setup works in QuickTime: you have ot install additional codecs to get certain types of files to play back.

Let me make a correction. Every video plays with every video player when you install k-lite codec pack, there's no mac equivalent for that and that's a big negative cause your video player choices are very limited. In Windows I've tried out countless of video players, but the one that came out on top is Media Player Classic Home Cinema. Pure simplicity won out, even though I wish it was a little prettier. Number 2 is ZoomPlayer, because you can bookmark any part of the video, but after the trial you have to pay for it. I do not like Windows Media Player.

[blackmoses]

You are misinformed there, windows plays "every file" only if you keep downloading all the codecs on the globe, and then windows media player would only perform very mediocrly with most codecs.

Hence most current an past windows users (the later being myself) have vlc to play everything for them instead. And vlc is open source and available for mac too.

Plus the new architecture of Quicktime X both outwards and inwards, runs circles and circles and circles around the stupidity that is window media player, a half baked effort at a media manager/jukebox-video player-music player-shop-shill for everything MS. I don't know why the idiots in MS never thought of the brilliant idea of a separate video and music player, but there you have it, I kind of answered my question, it's usual for them to miss the bloody obvious.

Truth be told, neither Windows Media Player nor QuickTime Player are fully satisfactory. Hence the reason why VLC is always one of my first installs on any new system.

[KaneBaker]

Could VLC's use as a player of copyrighted material (that's been downloaded illegally) partially explain Apple's lack of cooperation?

I strictly use Quicktime for pirated movies.
How does one player differ from another on those terms, this makes no sense.

Both play the same pirated files.

[inlovewithi]

You are misinformed there, windows plays "every file" only if you keep downloading all the codecs on the globe, and then windows media player would only perform very mediocrly with most codecs.

Hence most current an past windows users (the later being myself) have vlc to play everything for them instead. And vlc is open source and available for mac too.

Plus the new architecture of Quicktime X both outwards and inwards, runs circles and circles and circles around the stupidity that is window media player, a half baked effort at a media manager/jukebox-video player-music player-shop-shill for everything MS. I don't know why the idiots in MS never thought of the brilliant idea of a separate video and music player, but there you have it, I kind of answered my question, it's usual for them to miss the bloody obvious.
You just have to install K lite codec pac once, and every video player plays every video. There are way too many video players for Windows to list, so I don't know why you're focusing on Windows Media Player. I haven't used Windows Media Player in probably over 5 years, but when I do it seems ok.

[BRLawyer]

Could VLC's use as a player of copyrighted material (that's been downloaded illegally) partially explain Apple's lack of cooperation?

This is irrelevant, as any player can play downloaded material...not to mention that, in MANY jurisdictions, downloading material strictly for personal use is NOT illegal.

[applesupergeek]

You cant say horrible DRM when up until recently iTunes was riddled with it. :p

It did because everyone had to make concessions to record execs initially.

But we have only apple to thank because if it hadn't been for their clout and Steve's toughness and vision, we'd still have drm. They were by far the prime force for making this idiocy stop, they pushed for it, and they pushed hard, not just with profit in mind, but with a broader sense of the future of music and the consumer. Every music fan (and a lot of people in Apple are huge music fans no doubt) who every had to deal with drm knows it was such a monstrosity, and I am sure apple themselves knew they would have to eventually push it out, which they did thanks to their power.

On the other hand, our favorite people at redmond where building ground up frameworks in their os, and including drm in core processes...It's still evident in that say some drm ladden sites wont let you play drm material such as video because os x hasn't an in built drm system like ms.

Now this might seem as not such a big a deal, or let me rephrase that, somehting that we would have got anyway -no drm-, but history and that includes tec history, is never like that, for some reason a wrong twist is taken and then consequent generations have to face a stupid decision by previous people, with the biggest case in point of course the suffering of billions of people around the world to a virtual monopoly of bad software in ms. So, let's not take it for granted, because if it hadn't been for apple these control freaks at Redmond, would never, ever have allowed non drm to be the norm...for crying out loud they once envisioned the web as the msn solely...

[BRLawyer]

If VLC sucks, I am not sure how to describe QuickTime. Maybe pathetic?

VLC has allowed us to view content QT does not support, that list is very long. Additionally VLC is /was free, Apple shamelessly charges $30.

Sorry, since SL came out QT is absolutely free.

Another thing: Almost NOBODY needs VLC when WMP and Perian are available for seamless playback via QT. In fact, I don't even remember using VLC in a long time. QT with those plug-ins and MPlayer do the job just fine.

[applesupergeek]

You just have to install K lite codec pac once, and every video player plays every video. There are way too many video players for Windows to list, so I don't know why you're focusing on Windows Media Player. I haven't used Windows Media Player in probably over 5 years, but when I do it seems ok.

I was just trying to give you the heads up that os x is an excellent option, and far superior to windows, if you give it a go. :) And vlc does not need any codecs in either windows or mac.

[VoR]

Plus the new architecture of Quicktime X both outwards and inwards, runs circles and circles and circles around the stupidity that is window media player, a half baked effort at a media manager/jukebox-video player-music player-shop-shill for everything MS.

I was under the impression that windows has a pretty damn good implementation of a media framework. Where is the equivalent to dxva etc on osx?
It's good having a huge choice in front ends on each platform. We can talk all day about lack of developers on osx, especially with regards to AV or vlc etc but I'd be more worried about the consequences - most apps (vlc, movist, handbrake etcetc) all feed off other oss projects, especially ones like ffmpeg.
'a half baked effort at a media manager/jukebox-video player-music player-shop-shill for everything MS' - media centre is pretty decent now I think, itunes however? :)

[BRLawyer]

I’ve been using VLC for years and it plays practically everything. In fact, I use it with WMV files simply because it doesn’t have to pre-cache them like QuickTime X and Flip4Mac. Not to mention, it plays practically every DivX file too without spamming your Mac with unnecessary trial software like actual DivX (DivX convertor, DivX player, etc).

It’ll be a shame if it goes away.

It's absolutely amazing how people start bashing Apple when the problem is the absence of developers to work on VLC (as per VLC's official story)...why don't you guys go support it with your skills, then?

[applesupergeek]

Btw, anyone using miro for mac? It has a very strong community and people who swear by it, but I have never really gotten used to it.

[Manic Mouse]

The problem, from reading the vlc page, seems to simply be that there are no active Mac developers. There's a post in May saying they don't have many, and this post says they now have none. It even mentions that the interface is stale etc, but without Mac developers to spruce it up why would it not be?

There are plenty, PLENTY of talented coders on the OSX side. Guys that produce programs like Tweetie, Things, Little Snapper etc that put Windows apps to shame.

I think some of the talented devs we know exist should throw a bit of weight behind VLC. VLC has a lot of potential, it's core is fantastic and can play literally any codec you throw at it. If it had Open CL support and the interface was overhauled it would be immense.

Come on guys.

[applesupergeek]

Sorry, since SL came out QT is absolutely free.

Another thing: Almost NOBODY needs VLC when WMP and Perian are available for seamless playback via QT. In fact, I don't even remember using VLC in a long time. QT with those plug-ins and MPlayer do the job just fine.

To be fair quicktime can't handle .flv to the best of my knowledge.

[elppa]

Yay! Another Apple is evil story.

The Transmission (http://www.transmissionbt.com/) client is free and open source and they have a great UI.
Sequel Pro (http://www.sequelpro.com/) is free and open source and they have a great UI.
Handbrake (http://handbrake.fr/) is free and open source and, again, it has a good UI.

And we get the choruses of:
Mac developers are dwindling! — Actually they were growing year on year before the iPhone.
I'm switching to Linux (where you'll come across software far less complete and with far worst UIs than the Mac version of VLC).
Apple is eveil

kingtj has written the best assessment.

Software is hard, far harder than many people appreciate.

This is a good article on why (http://blog.bitquabit.com/2009/07/01/one-which-i-call-out-hacker-news/) and what gets underestimated.

Very often the Free Open Source group like to lobby very hard they have the one true and right way to develop software. Which is easy to argue if you ignore all the problems (http://mpt.net.nz/archive/2008/08/01/free-software-usability). And yes, finding volunteers is one such problem.

And giving away XCode free of charge just isn't enough. Apple could learn a lot from Microsoft here - Microsoft understands software developers and caters to them. They don't see them as an unwanted competition as Apple seemingly does.

All the key apps on Windows are made by Microsoft and given away for free by Microsoft.

I'm sure Adobe love Expression studio
I'm sure Lotus were delighted with Excel
I'm sure WordPerfect were delighted with Word
I'm sure Netscape were delighted when Explorer arrived etc.

Traditionally if a good piece of software has arrived on Windows, a Microsoft branded copy has followed shortly behind.

Traditionally when Apple has made new software like Quicktime or the iLife suite then it hasn't been a clone of another product. Those sorts of products just didn't exist on the Mac. There wasn't an iMovie like product on any platform before iMovie.

There are plenty, PLENTY of talented coders on the OSX side. Guys that produce programs like Tweetie, Things, Little Snapper etc that put Windows apps to shame.

What do these all have in common?

Firstly they all allow for their developers to eat.
Secondly they all use Apple's (arguably NeXT's) technologies and tool chains.

XCode, Cocoa, Objective-C etc.

VLC does neither of these things.

[Jimmy James]

I was just trying to give you the heads up that os x is an excellent option, and far superior to windows, if you give it a go. :) And vlc does not need any codecs in either windows or mac.

I gave it a go. OS X was not an excellent option. I have a large media library that I've converted to avi and playback was blocky and pixelated on osx. I couldn't find a solution.

[GSMiller]

Doesn't bother me. I've been using MPlayer OSX Extended for sometime and haven't looked back.

But from the looks of it, MPlayer OSX hasn't been updated in over 4 years :eek:

[BRLawyer]

I gave it a go. OS X was not an excellent option. I have a large media library that I've converted to avi and playback was blocky and pixelated on osx. I couldn't find a solution.

Funny that even the Handbrake coders deactivated AVI support, saying that it's just an obsolete technology...:rolleyes:

"AVI: AVI is a rough beast. It is obsolete. It does not support modern container features like chapters, muxed-in subtitles, variable framerate video, or out of order frame display. Furthermore, HandBrake's AVI muxer is vanilla AVI 1.0 that doesn't even support large files. The code has not been actively maintained since 2005. Keeping it in the library while implementing new features means a very convoluted data pipeline, full of conditionals that make the code more difficult to read and maintain, and make output harder to predict. As such, it is now gone. It is not coming back, and good riddance."

[blindzero]

Not only does VLC play most anything you throw at it, it also has the playlist, where it seamlessly goes from one movie to the next no matter resolution etc...it scales it correctly and you can put it full screen (or on external/monitor projector).

Quicktime Pro does not do that as far as I know. Does any other program do this with ease? I'm going to have to replace VLC if not.

[Manic Mouse]

What do these all have in common?

Firstly they all allow for their developers to eat.
Secondly they all use Apple's (arguably NeXT's) technologies and tool chains.

XCode, Cocoa, Objective-C etc.

VLC does neither of these things.

What about Transmission? What about Handbrake? What about Adium?

BTW Handbrake runs on both Windows and OSX, and "doesn't allow their developers to eat".

Like I said, no reason why some OSX devs can't support VLC and make it awesome.

[applesupergeek]

I gave it a go. OS X was not an excellent option. I have a large media library that I've converted to avi and playback was blocky and pixelated on osx. I couldn't find a solution.

I am sorry jimmy I don't believe you. Blocky and pixelated? Give me a break. I have lot os avis too and only 1/100 ever really stumbles, and that is usually some crap porn vid.

[8CoreWhore]

Apple is a capitalist corporation with obligations to it's share holders.

[8CoreWhore]

I gave it a go. OS X was not an excellent option. I have a large media library that I've converted to avi and playback was blocky and pixelated on osx. I couldn't find a solution.
Converted to AVI? AVI is old and on its way out.
The more you convert these files the worse they will look.

[8CoreWhore]

Interface-wise, VLC sucks big time...in fact, apart from its important functions in Handbrake, there is little else to be regarded as essential in VLC...the new QuickTime is much more versatile than before, especially with WMV and Perian.

But I have to ask anyway: where is the "thriving" Mac developer community in times like this? Or is it a matter of difficult personalities in such open source projects?

As I am NOT a developer myself, I am unable to help, sorry.

You answered your own question: They are thriving... no time for free work.

[SimonMW]

To be fair quicktime can't handle .flv to the best of my knowledge.

Quicktime X does on my machine. Might be because of having On2 Flix Pro installed, but it definitely plays them, and even plays them as preview thumbnails in the Finder.

[elppa]

What about Transmission? What about Handbrake? What about Adium?

BTW Handbrake runs on both Windows and OSX, and "doesn't allow their developers to eat".

Like I said, no reason why some OSX devs can't support VLC and make it awesome.
Like I said…

It's funny you say that, then all your examples do is further reinforce my point, not your point.

You latched onto the “allows developers to eat” bit and completely ignored the “Secondly they all use Apple's (arguably NeXT's) technologies and tool chains” bit. You know — the tools and technologies Mac developers are familiar with and may just happen to enjoy working with.

You have to prat around (http://wiki.videolan.org/OSXCompile) to get VLC built on OS X.

Transmission — They include an XCode Project (http://trac.transmissionbt.com/browser/trunk/Transmission.xcodeproj) in the source. Plus on the Mac side they use .xib files for UI (made with Interface Builder) and integrate with Growl. It would be more friendly to a Mac developer.

Adium (http://adium.im/) — Again, XCode Project, so friendly to a make and develop. Also use popular Mac frameworks such as Sparkle for updates and Growl for notifications.

Handbrake (http://trac.handbrake.fr/browser/trunk) — Xcode Project, xib files for UI, Sparkle.framework, Growl.framework etc.

You get the picture. You would have thought looking at what other good pieces of open source software do on Mac OS X might have given the VLC folks a few ideas. But clearly it is far easier to make vague undertones about Apple being “uncooperative”.

[jon08]

But from the looks of it, MPlayer OSX hasn't been updated in over 4 years :eek:

Try MPlayer OSX Extended: http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/28298/mplayer-osx-extended

[Eidorian]

I never user Quicktime. I have VLC, Movist, and MPlayer OS X Extended in my tool kit to play videos.

[8CoreWhore]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/17/videolan-considering-options-for-vlc-as-mac-developers-disappear/)

A notice posted earlier this month in the forums of VideoLAN, the open-source team behind the popular VLC media player (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/), reveals that a lack of Mac volunteer developers for the software has forced the project organizers to consider new plans for the Mac version of VLC going forward. The forum post, which has since been replaced with a static page (http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=59905#p228791), explains that the lack of manpower on the Mac front has resulted in lagging development, primarily on the user interface.VideoLAN hints at a couple of tactics for addressing the problem, including a possible shift to the use of an alternative Qt interface. The organizers interestingly note, however, that Apple has apparently been uncooperative in relation to the VLC project, offering roadblocks to the application's development. Aside from VLC's competition with Apple's QuickTime Player, it remains unclear exactly what Apple's objections are.

Article Link: VideoLAN Considering Options for VLC as Mac Developers Disappear (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/17/videolan-considering-options-for-vlc-as-mac-developers-disappear/)
What roadblocks? Define "objections". Is Apple somehow holding up VLC development? What would the VLC DEVS like Apple to do?

[Manic Mouse]

You get the picture. You would have thought looking at what other good pieces of open source software do on Mac OS X might have given the VLC folks a few ideas. But clearly it is far easier to make vague undertones about Apple being “uncooperative”.

I'm pretty confused here, this is exactly what I was trying to say before you jumped down my throat. There's no reason why VLC couldn't be like Transmission or Handbrake, which operate on multiple OSes but work beautifully on OSX, with the right developers behind it.

But VLC's post implies there are no Mac developers behind it. Which is unfortunate.

[JohnDoe98]

To be fair quicktime can't handle .flv to the best of my knowledge.

It does on my system and the only add ons I have a flic4mac and perian. The only thing I really need vlc for is for streaming live sports, Quicktime X doesn't recognize the proper aspect ratio.

[jonconley]

However, QuickTime lacks all of the versatility that VLC has in the field of video and sound adjustments not to mention subtitles.

FWIW, Perian has a checkbox in the Preferences: Load External Subtitles.

You are right though regarding subtitles and the tweaking of A/V. Not a lot of the many options VLC offers.

[applevx]

IMHO, I choose MPlayer OSX Extended, because the following...

As you can see, play the same move, MPlayer use the lowest OS resources (CPU & Memory), also is 64bit.

So, MPlayer OSX Extended is winner!

[Eidorian]

IMHO, I choose MPlayer OSX Extended, because the following...

As you can see, play the same move, MPlayer use the lowest OS resources (CPU & Memory), also is 64bit.

So, MPlayer OSX Extended is winner!Do you have fast libavcodec and multithreaded ffmpeg enabled?

[RedTomato]

Interesting discussion on Slashdot about this.

http://apple.slashdot.org/story/09/12/16/2145251/Lack-of-Manpower-May-Kill-VLC-For-Mac

One interesting comment was that all the decent OSX coders have gone to the iPhone projects. Let's face it, if I was any good at coding on OSX I'd be off working on iPhone apps like a shot.

There's a goldmine there. So maybe the free / non-iphone OSX apps are starting to suffer a lack of high-level coding talent.

[applevx]

Do you have fast libavcodec and multithreaded ffmpeg enabled?

I turn on the "Fast libavcodec", but leave the "multithreaded" OFF

:D

[elppa]

I'm pretty confused here, this is exactly what I was trying to say before you jumped down my throat. There's no reason why VLC couldn't be like Transmission or Handbrake, which operate on multiple OSes but work beautifully on OSX, with the right developers behind it.

But VLC's post implies there are no Mac developers behind it. Which is unfortunate.

I didn't meant to jump down your throat, so sorry. I would say it's less to do with fortune and more to do with cause and effect.

A project can attract Mac developers by following conventions for Mac Applications — in other words: making it easy for them to work with the code in a manner they would expect. Transmission, Adium and Handbrake all do this. VLC does not.

But who does that ground work in the first place in lieu of enough Mac developers?

It would likely take a big re-architecting of the player before VLC could use .xibs for UIs and integrate with certain frameworks.

What roadblocks? Define "objections". Is Apple somehow holding up VLC development? What would the VLC DEVS like Apple to do?

They'd make life easier for themselves if they started using Mac development tools, frameworks and ideas, instead of treating Mac OS X as something akin to one of the many Linux distributions they support.

Like it or not for a piece of consumer, user facing, software like VLC, Mac OS X is far more important and relevant today than any Linux distribution. The only platform more important is Windows.

[odedia]

+1

I'm deaf and VLC is the ONLY app that can add external subtitle files (in most formats) to any movie file I have. I have many DVDs with no subtitles, (some even state on the box they have subtitles, but actually they don't) and with VLC it's a quick trip to opensubtitles.org or allsubs.org to get the file, load it up and I'm ready to watch. Even works with DVDs.

Another VLC bonus: due to the various frame rates used internationally, the subtitles often start lagging, or preceeding the dialogue. In VLC it's easy to move the timing of the subtitles without stopping the film. Can any other OSX film viewer do this?

If VLC dies, I'm gonna be left up ***** creek.

EDIT: saw the post above about MOVIST. Never tried it, looked for their website, but all I can find is a Chinese language website.

Plex does all of this plus so much more.

[Sayer]

Funny how everyone is whining how VLC is going away and its the end of Mac video playback or something. And simultaneously there are at least three alternative video playback apps that can jump forward and replace VLC for about 99% of the VLC users out there.

Typically the more popular an app becomes, the better it will get (before it grows so large it becomes unwieldy, the new devs on the team argue about what to do next, customer support slips).

Pick a replacement and throw your attention (or heaven forbid money) at an alternative (of which there are several) to VLC.

[VoR]

Pick a replacement and throw your attention (or heaven forbid money) at an alternative (of which there are several) to VLC.

Yet another gui for ffmpeg :)

VLC's video playback is one of its most simple features.

People develop oss for fun and interests sake too, money will not necessarily fix a problem.

[jaw04005]

It's absolutely amazing how people start bashing Apple when the problem is the absence of developers to work on VLC (as per VLC's official story)...why don't you guys go support it with your skills, then?

I didn’t bash Apple, nor did I make any claims about my skills. :rolleyes:

[Bregalad]

Would guess they all working overtime to make some more iPhone apps happen.
About the interface i agree. Also annoying with VLC that when going fullscreen, it blacks-out all screens,...
I use it only for things that quicktime fails to play.

QuickTime hardly plays anything. I'd stopped using QuickTime altogether, but when I got a new computer running Snow Leopard it became the default player again. The very first video file I double clicked brought up an error message so it was back to VLC again.

I'd help out but my programming experience is limited to some introductory courses in BASIC and PASCAL in the 1980s.

[applesupergeek]

I never user Quicktime. I have VLC, Movist, and MPlayer OS X Extended in my tool kit to play videos.

as expected...:rolleyes:

[jon08]

Who cares really.. I've been annoyed with VLC's Playlist window anyway - I really don't need it to open every time I run VLC. And aside from that, it didn't play videos smoothly all the time. Sometimes it kind of skipped even after I had changed the cache ms to 1000.

I've replaced it with MPlayer OSX Extended and so far it seems pretty good.

[*LTD*]

Interesting discussion on Slashdot about this.

http://apple.slashdot.org/story/09/12/16/2145251/Lack-of-Manpower-May-Kill-VLC-For-Mac

One interesting comment was that all the decent OSX coders have gone to the iPhone projects. Let's face it, if I was any good at coding on OSX I'd be off working on iPhone apps like a shot.

There's a goldmine there. So maybe the free / non-iphone OSX apps are starting to suffer a lack of high-level coding talent.

Bring the iPhone OS to the tablet. ;)

Someday, all Apple hardware will run the iPhone OS. ;)


Funny how everyone is whining how VLC is going away and its the end of Mac video playback or something. And simultaneously there are at least three alternative video playback apps that can jump forward and replace VLC for about 99% of the VLC users out there.

Typically the more popular an app becomes, the better it will get (before it grows so large it becomes unwieldy, the new devs on the team argue about what to do next, customer support slips).

Pick a replacement and throw your attention (or heaven forbid money) at an alternative (of which there are several) to VLC.

Can't help but agree with this.

[ahasver]

The problem with free software that no one really feels the need to be engaged. Maybe if more people would donate some money but hey it's free why should I?

[BRLawyer]

Bring the iPhone OS to the tablet. ;)

Someday, all Apple hardware will run the iPhone OS. ;)




Can't help but agree with this.

In other words, VLC IS DEAD. Good riddance?

[skate71290]

Could VLC's use as a player of copyrighted material (that's been downloaded illegally) partially explain Apple's lack of cooperation? lol then what is Quicktime X for, Apple should buy VLC, strip it down and add Quicktime interface to it, quicktime x... for some stupid reason takes up more RAM/processing power than Quicktime 7, all the hype for a piece of **** software, sorry mega stressed with Apple atm :mad:

[tofagerl]

Bring the iPhone OS to the tablet. ;)

Someday, all Apple hardware will run the iPhone OS. ;)


Yeah, the Final Cut Pro app will really be popular on iTunes...

[*LTD*]

In other words, VLC IS DEAD. Good riddance?

Well, it's only VLC. Others will take its place. This is how it goes with free software.

Yeah, the Final Cut Pro app will really be popular on iTunes...

Dare I dream? ;)

[OllyW]

Someday, all Apple hardware will run the iPhone OS. ;)

Why, do you think they will stop making computers?

[Eidorian]

Someday, all Apple hardware will run the iPhone OS. ;)That is definitely a do not want.

[applesupergeek]

Who cares really.. I've been annoyed with VLC's Playlist window anyway - I really don't need it to open every time I run VLC. And aside from that, it didn't play videos smoothly all the time. Sometimes it kind of skipped even after I had changed the cache ms to 1000.

I've replaced it with MPlayer OSX Extended and so far it seems pretty good.

you can disable vlc bringing up the playlist every time, it's up to you.

mplayer might be kind on resources, as reported, although we don't actually know, but otherwise it's crap, I don't know why anyone would choose it over quicktime and vlc that are more feature rich and powerful. But to its his own I guess.

[Bafflefish]

That is definitely a do not want.
Someday I'd really like to find out what LTD is consuming. It'd make my days a whole lot brighter, lol.

More seriously though, I can't see how anyone would ever seriously want the iPhone OS to run on all Apple hardware. It works decently for mobile devices, and I could see it working for the Tablet if the Tablet is basically an e-reader/media device, but otherwise it's a very limited OS for most other situations.

[HLdan]

The problem with free software that no one really feels the need to be engaged. Maybe if more people would donate some money but hey it's free why should I?

Yeah, I read that. VLC's developers are asking for donations to help with development. My only gripe is find it hard to believe that they are getting much revenue from the Windows crowd in the first place as most people running Windows are looking for anything free. Yet they have no problems making the Windows version. Just my observation.

[Mattie Num Nums]

Yeah, I read that. VLC's developers are asking for donations to help with development. My only gripe is find it hard to believe that they are getting much revenue from the Windows crowd in the first place as most people running Windows are looking for anything free. Yet they have no problems making the Windows version. Just my observation.

This has more to do with Apples snobbish relationship with there developers as of recent.

[Bafflefish]

Yet they have no problems making the Windows version. Just my observation.
I think you wouldn't have to look further than simply seeing the sheer number of Windows developers compared to the number of Mac developers, to see why they have an easier time updating and supporting the Windows client.

Many of the "Windows developers" I know also happen to be Linux/Unix developers, and so I could see why the Linux version of VLC sees updates as well.

I only know a few Mac developers, and they usually spend a lot of time with iPhone apps, so I could see it honestly being the case where people have simply shifted their priorities towards developing for the iPhone and making money from the App Store.

[Bafflefish]

This has more to do with Apples snobbish relationship with there developers as of recent.
Eh, at the end of the day, most people will go where the money is, and so choosing between spending your time updating the free VLC or developing iPhone apps you can sell on the App Store and get a profit from, it's fairly obvious the decision most would make.

[HLdan]

I think you wouldn't have to look further than simply seeing the sheer number of Windows developers compared to the number of Mac developers, to see why they have an easier time updating and supporting the Windows client.

Many of the "Windows developers" I know also happen to be Linux/Unix developers, and so I could see why the Linux version of VLC sees updates as well.

I only know a few Mac developers, and they usually spend a lot of time with iPhone apps, so I could see it honestly being the case where people have simply shifted their priorities towards developing for the iPhone and making money from the App Store.

Eh, at the end of the day, most people will go where the money is, and so choosing between spending your time updating the free VLC or developing iPhone apps you can sell on the App Store and get a profit from, it's fairly obvious the decision most would make.


Posts like this make wonder. Your post certainly sounds like you're just fine with the fact that developers are abandoning the Mac platform as it seems to make sense to you. You're certainly justifying their reasons for doing it. :rolleyes:

[mdriftmeyer]

http://wiki.videolan.org/Lunettes

Official explanation listed regarding Cocoa and the new Lunettes core.

[jdiamond]

Interface-wise, VLC sucks big time...in fact, apart from its important functions in Handbrake, there is little else to be regarded as essential in VLC...the new QuickTime is much more versatile than before, especially with WMV and Perian.

I would have to guess that the main issue Apple has with VLC is the copyright protection issues. Apple has been fine tuning DVD Player and Quicktime Player with each release to be so adept and subtle that they can detect and refuse to play even bitwise identical copies of DVDs by giving an error message "could not confirm the authenticity of this DVD". In such cases, the only way a Mac user can watch a video (which may be legitimate but lacks the advanced copyright protocols) is to use VLC player.

In short, Apple is trying to be a "trusted media" platform, and VLC player is a hole in that scheme.

[MacFly123]

I am a video producer and I don't even care for it. The only thing I use VLC for is to play .flv files.

[saab]

OK, I gonna stick my neck out and say what I think of this.

I understand VLC and why it is here. It seems to be some sort of Swiss Army tool for "video" and that is often one of the problems with open source applications. It try to do everything but end up doing nothing really good.

It's probably the app on my Macs that crashes most frequently. It is so bad that I no longer really think of it. It is still there but… No, it's not an alternative anymore and it will probably go away during the next big clean-up.

The interface is horrible. Filled with techno-babble and just a big mess. Some time things happen, sometimes not. MS Office is a joy in user friendliness compared to VLC. It seems that most apps coming out of the 3l1t3 open source community (the one that true Linux geeks gravitate to) have this problem. It is a typical geek/nerd app, and most users of this (as with Firefox) uses it because they have heard that it is "really really good" (usually because it is FREE (and therefor must be really really good)) and believe in the FUD. It is basically the same way Firefox is spread on the Mac. Most Mac users I meet just want Firefox, but nobody can explain why - it's just something they heard from others. But when the actually tested Safari and see that it is faster, easier, cleaner then never go back. But you can't critizise something like Firefox, their FUD, etc, now can you? I mean, are for or against "the community"?

The most pathetic thing is that they must stab at Apple for this situation. Oh how easy to always blame the big, ugly corporations that don't give away stuff for free. The truth is that VLC is a nice attempt at something but is horrible flawed, ugly and not worth at exist on a Mac. And the reason for this is probably the code - and, hence, the developers. Let it go away. Something better will takes it place. That is one of the main beauties of the open source community, right?

[Drag'nGT]

I'm sad to see that VLC doesn't have support. I guess there's a lot of people programming iPhone apps rather than working to improve a freeware video player. I don't blame them.

VLC could use an update, esp since I can't get it to open as one stinking window! That's one reason I stopped using it after I switched to 10.6. I now use Perian with Quicktime and it's great.

[layte]

IMHO, I choose MPlayer OSX Extended, because the following...

As you can see, play the same move, MPlayer use the lowest OS resources (CPU & Memory), also is 64bit.

So, MPlayer OSX Extended is winner!

1080p h264 videos hover at around 80-100% CPU using various media players on my MBP. If I fire up W7 on the same machine and open the exact same files that drops to 5-15% using Media Player Classic - Home Cinema (no codec packs required FUD fans). Perhaps Apple will eventually create an API that allows 3rd party coders to hook into the GPU, and I don't mean any OpenCL shenanigans either, every GPU released in the past 3/4 years has dedicated decoding hardware. Rather than the current stupid situation where only a few certain types of file are accelerated, using Quicktime if you have a very particular GPU.

(On my old Quad Core vista machine the same files used an almighty 2% of the CPU)

[CQd44]

1080p h264 videos hover at around 80-100% CPU using various media players on my MBP. If I fire up W7 on the same machine and open the exact same files that drops to 5-15% using Media Player Classic - Home Cinema (no codec packs required FUD fans). Perhaps Apple will eventually create an API that allows 3rd party coders to hook into the GPU, and I don't mean any OpenCL shenanigans either, every GPU released in the past 3/4 years has dedicated decoding hardware. Rather than the current stupid situation where only a few certain types of file are accelerated, using Quicktime if you have a very particular GPU.

(On my old Quad Core vista machine the same files used an almighty 2% of the CPU)

Yeah, never understood the lack of GPU decoding on OS X.

[ahasver]

Yeah, I read that. VLC's developers are asking for donations to help with development. My only gripe is find it hard to believe that they are getting much revenue from the Windows crowd in the first place as most people running Windows are looking for anything free. Yet they have no problems making the Windows version. Just my observation.

:rolleyes:
It seems more people on the windows platform are willing to develop for VLC. It is not a conspiracy just the fact that there are more people chipping in. You can observe this over and over again with the mac folks. It is really too bad but I am not contributing either.

[HLdan]

:rolleyes:
It seems more people on the windows platform are willing to develop for VLC. It is not a conspiracy just the fact that there are more people chipping in. You can observe this over and over again with the mac folks. It is really too bad but I am not contributing either.

Nobody said anything about a conspiracy. Maybe you should reread my post that was actually quoting someone else, not you. :p

[Eidorian]

Yeah, never understood the lack of GPU decoding on OS X.I've been waiting since 2005.

[Bafflefish]

Posts like this make wonder. Your post certainly sounds like you're just fine with the fact that developers are abandoning the Mac platform as it seems to make sense to you. You're certainly justifying their reasons for doing it. :rolleyes:
Developers aren't "abandoning" the Mac platform so much as they're re-focusing on areas where they'll be more profitable (i.e., less freeware/open source development and more towards areas such as iPhone apps).

If anything, I'd imagine that Apple software development is at its highest in years overall, given the increases in marketshare that Apple has been experiencing.

I said that it makes sense to me as to why they'd do it: why put in dozens, hundreds or thousands of hours of development time into a project that provides no financial return when you can spend that time working on an app or apps that will provide financial return?

No where did I say that I thought it was a good thing. Understanding a reason =/= thinking it's a good thing.

Edit - I should add that when I mentioned that I knew only a few Mac developers, that's how it's been for years. They're still developing for Mac, and I even know a few people who started off with Windows and eventually switched. It's just when Windows (between its various versions) is at 93ish % of the market, obviously a large portion of your developer base will be developing for Windows, because that's where they're likely to make the most profit.

[Bafflefish]

:rolleyes:
It seems more people on the windows platform are willing to develop for VLC. It is not a conspiracy just the fact that there are more people chipping in. You can observe this over and over again with the mac folks. It is really too bad but I am not contributing either.
Exactly. It's a matter of pure numbers. I mean, let's say 1% of your developer base on either platform is willing to contribute to a project. You'll have far more Windows developers than OS X developers, even with both at 1%, solely because there are so many more of them. Thus, in VLC's case, it's easier to find Windows contributors.

[HLdan]

Developers aren't "abandoning" the Mac platform so much as they're re-focusing on areas where they'll be more profitable (i.e., less freeware/open source development and more towards areas such as iPhone apps).

If anything, I'd imagine that Apple software development is at its highest in years overall, given the increases in marketshare that Apple has been experiencing.

I said that it makes sense to me as to why they'd do it: why put in dozens, hundreds or thousands of hours of development time into a project that provides no financial return when you can spend that time working on an app or apps that will provide financial return?

No where did I say that I thought it was a good thing. Understanding a reason =/= thinking it's a good thing.

Edit - I should add that when I mentioned that I knew only a few Mac developers, that's how it's been for years. They're still developing for Mac, and I even know a few people who started off with Windows and eventually switched. It's just when Windows (between its various versions) is at 93ish % of the market, obviously a large portion of your developer base will be developing for Windows, because that's where they're likely to make the most profit.

And nowhere in my post did I say you thought it was a "good thing", I said you seem to be just fine with the fact that they are abandoning the Mac platform. Your words about them focusing on areas that are more profitable is the same thing as "abandoning". What do you call it when developers put their focus towards where the money is, and stop on areas that don't? A vacation? NO. I call it abandonment.

My point was, if this was really the case that it was just about money, I find it hard to believe the Windows customers are really offering much in donations for VLC. There's more behind it.

[Blinkwing]

Could VLC's use as a player of copyrighted material (that's been downloaded illegally) partially explain Apple's lack of cooperation?

Apple != my mother.

We are fully capable of doing what we like with our computers. We do not need a nanny supervising our every click.

You can't play downloaded material with Quicktime?

That's because the codec support blows, to say the least. I don't even like QT at all .. it just sucks!

This is a huge shame because VLC is fantastic!

+1

I'm deaf and VLC is the ONLY app that can add external subtitle files (in most formats) to any movie file I have. I have many DVDs with no subtitles, (some even state on the box they have subtitles, but actually they don't) and with VLC it's a quick trip to opensubtitles.org or allsubs.org to get the file, load it up and I'm ready to watch. Even works with DVDs.

Another VLC bonus: due to the various frame rates used internationally, the subtitles often start lagging, or preceeding the dialogue. In VLC it's easy to move the timing of the subtitles without stopping the film. Can any other OSX film viewer do this?

If VLC dies, I'm gonna be left up ***** creek.

EDIT: saw the post above about MOVIST. Never tried it, looked for their website, but all I can find is a Chinese language website.

I'm in the same situation as you ... hate the MPAA/RIAA attitude regarding subtitling the various zone DVDs (American zoned DVDs have the best support for English SDH subtitles whereas equivalent DVDs from a different region often drop the subtitles.) not to mention streaming from local news/media sites. They don't provide subtitles AT ALL. It's just stupid.

You can get MOVIST from the Google Code site. [link (http://code.google.com/p/movist/)]

[mdriftmeyer]

http://wiki.videolan.org/Lunettes

Official explanation listed regarding Cocoa and the new Lunettes core.

[atticus18244fsa]

VLC is used multiple times a day on my MBP and it's fine the way it is. I don't understand why they think they need to constantly update it.

[Eidorian]

http://wiki.videolan.org/Lunettes

Official explanation listed regarding Cocoa and the new Lunettes core.Support past Leopard was getting tough to come by for VLC. Not that I expected Tiger support today. How did this get blown out of proportion?

[VanNess]

Well, the most disturbing part of the link was this nugget:

Finally, we have a few issues, since Apple doesn't want us on the Mac platform and is blocking us a lot, and refuses to explain why.

That was enough to motivate me to submit the following to Apple feedback:

Videolan.org makes the following claim: "Finally, we have a few issues, since Apple doesn't want us on the Mac platform and is blocking us a lot, and refuses to explain why."

See http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=59905#p228791

If true, given the state of Quicktime's historical inoperability with a plentitude of media codecs currently and freely available on the web, and given that there has been no apparent solution provided by the default version of Quicktime player - which is offered, presumably, as Apple's solution for media playback on OS X - and given that VLC has offered a convenient, easy-to-use media player that DOES offer practically universal playback for almost all media codecs encountered on the web without the need for any user intervention, the issue noted above may be enough to abandon Apple's OS X platform.

As we approach the year 2010, it is extraordinary that Apple hasn't appreciated what ordinary users may encounter on the web with respect to various media formats "not supported" by Quicktime. It simply touts Quicktime X (and it's predecessors) as if none of these media formats exist. The message from Apple is that Quicktime player is all that users need. While that would be great if true, ten minutes on the web puts that presumption to bed once and for all.

As a user, I could care less about the bragging rights of technology corporations and I could care less about many times a software program has been downloaded. As a user, I want software that "just works" Nevertheless, a side-by side comparison of the current default version of Quicktime player and VLC shows that Quicktime is virtually crippled with regards to it's ability to playback scores of media codecs IN ACTIVE USE on the web. VLC, on the other hand, has no problem whatsoever.

There simply is no justification for Apple to interfere with the development of VLC, as alleged by the development team at Videolan.org, and offer NOTHING to users as a substitute. Apple should be well aware of the importance of universal web access, and the consequences of actions that result in erecting barriers to entry.

[Bafflefish]

And nowhere in my post did I say you thought it was a "good thing", I said you seem to be just fine with the fact that they are abandoning the Mac platform. Your words about them focusing on areas that are more profitable is the same thing as "abandoning". What do you call it when developers put their focus towards where the money is, and stop on areas that don't? A vacation? NO. I call it abandonment.
Semantics much? Here's the quote I'm referring to:

Your post certainly sounds like you're just fine with the fact that developers are abandoning the Mac platform
Sure, I guess "fine with" isn't the same as "a good thing", but seriously, you worded it to suggest I thought it was ok and that I was content with the notion that developers were abandoning the platform. I never think it's a good thing for developers to abandon a platform, unless it's dying and soon to be irrelevant anyway.

What *YOU* call something, only matters in *YOUR* view. Now, in this situation, if a developer completely ceases support or development on a product to shift to an entirely different area, are they abandoning that area? Sure. But what if they step away for awhile to work on something else, and then come back later? I've known plenty of developers who do that because, quite honestly, when you work for months or years on a project, sometimes you just want to do something else for a change. And often enough, people will go back eventually to continue working on their prior project.

And the reality is, many of the people who work on open source projects, do it as a hobby and don't actually do it for financial incentive or such. I've known developers who did development at work, worked on their own side projects at home, and thus often didn't have a lot of time outside of those activities, including for one guy his family. Sometimes people have to step away, and the reality is, as the number of VLC Mac developers diminished, that meant more and more work for the remaining developers. Ultimately it likely got to the point where they were simply spending too much time, and so they stopped.

My point was, if this was really the case that it was just about money, I find it hard to believe the Windows customers are really offering much in donations for VLC. There's more behind it.
Who said anything about Windows customers offering much in donations? The reality though of even donations is that there are likely many more Windows VLC users than OS X VLC users. As such, any call for donations would potentially see a larger amount come from Windows users, since a) that's the larger user base for VLC and b) the Windows version is more regularly updated, thus resulting in users of that version seeing more of a reason to donate.

[Berio]

Well, the most disturbing part of the link was this nugget:


That was enough to motivate me to submit the following to Apple feedback:
(...)There simply is no justification for Apple to interfere with the development of VLC,

Apple should be well aware of the importance of universal web access, and the consequences of actions that result in erecting barriers to entry.

why do they need to justify anything to anybody?

the more they follow their business strategy, the more computers they sell, the more money they make - why would they care about all this VLC nonsense?

if their powerful rise continues they will dictate which formats and codecs are 'allowed' on the web, there will be no need to have anything besides QT. i presume this is the dream they are working towards. why should they give a damn about VLC and all the moaning on these boards, they will steamroll, destroy and/or swallow all competition and all 3rd party stuff.

[totoum]

u.

mplayer might be kind on resources, as reported, although we don't actually know, but otherwise it's crap, I don't know why anyone would choose it over quicktime and vlc that are more feature rich and powerful. But to its his own I guess.

Maybe i'm just in a small "market" but vlc's reputation in the anime subbing community is terrible,mainly because it doesn't handle mkv or h264 well

mplayer extended beats it out in both of those features

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9937/embarassingvlc.png

[AidenShaw]

All the key apps on Windows are made by Microsoft and given away for free by Microsoft.

I'm sure Adobe love Expression studio
I'm sure Lotus were delighted with Excel
I'm sure WordPerfect were delighted with Word
I'm sure Netscape were delighted when Explorer arrived etc.

Wow - just wow!

Expression® Studio 3Estimated Retail Price (ERP)
Full Version $599 USD
Upgrade $349 USD

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Purchase.aspx?key=studio#PageTop

And I'm sure that most of the readers here were surprised to learn that Microsoft Office was now free.

But you're right that Explorer is included with the OS. Internet Explorer is also included. ;)

[Eidorian]

Maybe i'm just in a small "market" but vlc's reputation in the anime subbing community is terrible,mainly because it doesn't handle mkv or h264 well

mplayer extended beats it out in both of those features

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9937/embarassingvlc.pngVLC's miserable seeking during playback of h.264 in MKV is legendary. :D

I didn't even need the filename to know what was being played back. :eek:

[Corrode]

Well, the most disturbing part of the link was this nugget:


That was enough to motivate me to submit the following to Apple feedback:

Thanks for writing such a coherent and well though out letter. I hope it makes a difference.

As for .mkvs and H.264, VLC plays them back flawlessly on my mac.

[ccdan]

If apple continues on this path, there are good chances that at some point in the future no one might be able to play any media that wasn't bought from apple... they're completely crazy with this control/vendor lock-in thing... they want you to buy from them just about anything you use on your mac/iphone/ipod/etc. ... and even more disturbing is the fact that they try to control even the nature of the media/software used on their devices - for example thy banned "adult content" from app store, certain applications deemed "offensive" (baby shaker) and various applications that might compete with their software/services...

and this idiotic atittude could lead to the collapse of apple in the end...

[ampdigitl]

Maybe i'm just in a small "market" but vlc's reputation in the anime subbing community is terrible,mainly because it doesn't handle mkv or h264 well

mplayer extended beats it out in both of those features

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9937/embarassingvlc.png


that is so true, i just timed it with my iphone.

latest Naruto Shippuuden in 720p mkv on MPlayer OS X Extended 12 - 5 sec to start playing vs 56 seconds on VLC 1.03! I know MPlayer is 64 bit vs VLC being 32bit but dang! I'll download VLC 1.02 64 bit and try again..

EDIT: tried opening the same file with VLC 1.02 64-bit and VLC crashes everytime!

[KnightWRX]

Mplayer OS X Extended is fine. And with all the keyboard controls and logging Mplayer offers, it's definitively the superior choice.

Not to mention it at least as a good Icon that doesn't look like total crap on my dock. Seriously, a cone...

[jon08]

So if you want to play .avi, .wmv and other type of unsupported types of video in QT with WMV + Perian installed, you'll always have to wait for them to convert those vids, and only then will you be able to watch them?

[OllyW]

if their powerful rise continues they will dictate which formats and codecs are 'allowed' on the web, there will be no need to have anything besides QT. i presume this is the dream they are working towards. why should they give a damn about VLC and all the moaning on these boards, they will steamroll, destroy and/or swallow all competition and all 3rd party stuff.

Is it possible to "dictate which formats and codecs are 'allowed' on the web" when you've only got a 3.5% market share? :rolleyes:

[BRLawyer]

Perian's latest release from today...

"Plays AVI, FLV, and MKV file formats
MS-MPEG4 v1 & v2, DivX, 3ivx, H.264, FLV/Sorenson Spark, FSV1, VP6, H263i, VP3, HuffYUV, FFVHuff, MPEG1 & MPEG2 Video, Fraps, Windows Media Audio v1 & v2, Flash ADPCM, Xiph Vorbis (in Matroska), and MPEG Layer II Audio
AVI support for: AAC, AC3 Audio, H.264, MPEG4, and VBR MP3
Subtitle support for SSA/ASS and SRT"

Do we really need to worry about VLC? Whatever...

[homsar]

Perian's latest release from today...

Do we really need to worry about VLC? Whatever...

Hahaha funny.

[RedTomato]

Plex does all of this plus so much more.

Thanks - I didn't know Plex could adjust subtitle timings.

I'll have to check out Plex, Mplayer Extended, and MOVIST over the Xmas holidays. Nice to see subtitle support on OSX is moving forwards.

[weckart]

Well, the most disturbing part of the link was this nugget: Finally, we have a few issues, since Apple doesn't want us on the Mac platform and is blocking us a lot, and refuses to explain why.

That was enough to motivate me to submit the following to Apple feedback:

You should have dug a little deeper before jumping to conclusions. Apple's 'blocking' consists of not listing VLC on apple.com/downloads. according to one of developers, who emailed osnews.com. (http://www.osnews.com/story/22629/VLC_for_Mac_Death_Greatly_Exaggerated_)

That is all.

[dyn]

You should have dug a little deeper before jumping to conclusions. Apple's 'blocking' consists of not listing VLC on apple.com/downloads. according to one of developers, who emailed osnews.com. (http://www.osnews.com/story/22629/VLC_for_Mac_Death_Greatly_Exaggerated_)

That is all.
In other words: the story is completely different. The only way of describing this I can think of would be "epic fail". The problem with this is that people will not take VLC seriously any more because the story might be completely different the following day. Idiots.

[jon08]

So if you want to play .avi, .wmv and other type of unsupported types of video in QT with WMV + Perian installed, you'll always have to wait for them to convert those vids, and only then will you be able to watch them?

Anyone?

[VanNess]

You should have dug a little deeper before jumping to conclusions. Apple's 'blocking' consists of not listing VLC on apple.com/downloads. according to one of developers, who emailed osnews.com. (http://www.osnews.com/story/22629/VLC_for_Mac_Death_Greatly_Exaggerated_)

That is all.

Thanks for the update and clarification. I was aware that I was writing based on pretty sparse information, which is why I qualified the allegation with "if true."

[KnightWRX]

Perian's latest release from today...


Do we really need to worry about VLC? Whatever...

Perian is total crap. It's a stop gap measure for people who just won't let go of Quicktime. Seriously, I don't want to wait 10 minutes each time I want to watch a mkv because Quicktime as to load the entire thing in memory before it starts playback.

I don't know why you keep bringing it up when people have suggested much better quality alternatives that can actually start playing back an mkv file without having loaded it entirely.

So if you want to play .avi, .wmv and other type of unsupported types of video in QT with WMV + Perian installed, you'll always have to wait for them to convert those vids, and only then will you be able to watch them?

Not, only unindexed formats, from their FAQ (which you didn't bother to look at) :

Why does it take so long for MKV to load?

QuickTime expects to know about the entire movie when playing it, but that's not possible with many formats, including MKV and MPEG. Ask Apple to support seeking without an index if you'd like this to go away!

[jon08]

Perian is total crap. It's a stop gap measure for people who just won't let go of Quicktime. Seriously, I don't want to wait 10 minutes each time I want to watch a mkv because Quicktime as to load the entire thing in memory before it starts playback.

I don't know why you keep bringing it up when people have suggested much better quality alternatives that can actually start playing back an mkv file without having loaded it entirely.



Not, only unindexed formats, from their FAQ (which you didn't bother to look at) :

Why does it take so long for MKV to load?

QuickTime expects to know about the entire movie when playing it, but that's not possible with many formats, including MKV and MPEG. Ask Apple to support seeking without an index if you'd like this to go away!

I see, thanks. But what other formats belong to the "unindexed"?

[clevin]

a loss for mac users, may or may not be big.

a loss for mac environment, as vlc is a flagship OSS product across the platforms.

probably not a big loss for vlc, as mac only has %4-5 market share globally, and among that, probably much less people use vlc anyway.

vlc does need to come up with a solution to become somewhat solvent financially. buring money and ask for permanent free work from developers are a bit harsh in the long run.

if vlc doesn't like apple's attitude, they should just quit, I dont see apple changing its control freak way of doing things. In fact i dont know why any OSS project would hold their nose to help apple after all. with unfriendly apple and ungrateful apple fans.

[KnightWRX]

vlc does need to come up with a solution to become somewhat solvent financially. buring money and ask for permanent free work from developers are a bit harsh in the long run.

You don't quite get open source I see.

Financially solvent ? It's not about money.

And like as been said before, this "Death of Mac VLC" is greatly exagerrated. They are simply rewriting the GUI because no one wants to maintain the old one.

VLC will still ship for Mac in the future, there is no worries if you use it.

[*LTD*]

Perian's latest release from today...

"Plays AVI, FLV, and MKV file formats
MS-MPEG4 v1 & v2, DivX, 3ivx, H.264, FLV/Sorenson Spark, FSV1, VP6, H263i, VP3, HuffYUV, FFVHuff, MPEG1 & MPEG2 Video, Fraps, Windows Media Audio v1 & v2, Flash ADPCM, Xiph Vorbis (in Matroska), and MPEG Layer II Audio
AVI support for: AAC, AC3 Audio, H.264, MPEG4, and VBR MP3
Subtitle support for SSA/ASS and SRT"

Do we really need to worry about VLC? Whatever...

Ahh, very nice! I love Perian. MKV support is back in QT now. Except it'll still take forever to open an MKV. QuickTime X is pretty slow. At least it's a bit more functional now. Previews also tale forever to load in thr Finder using QTserver. Ugh . . .

[Eidorian]

Perian is total crap. It's a stop gap measure for people who just won't let go of Quicktime. Seriously, I don't want to wait 10 minutes each time I want to watch a mkv because Quicktime as to load the entire thing in memory before it starts playback.

I don't know why you keep bringing it up when people have suggested much better quality alternatives that can actually start playing back an mkv file without having loaded it entirely.Perian works much better for the support it adds to Quick Look. In the ultimate irony Quicktime is probably the worst application for video playback.

[*LTD*]

Perian works much better for the support it adds to Quick Look. In the ultimate irony Quicktime is probably the worst application for video playback.

Quicktime takes forever to load an MKV, but also takes its sweet time with other longer vidoes. Finder Previews (off to the side in column view) take forever to load, with QTserver taking up huge resources while doing so.

I want to love Quicktime, I really do. It looks great. But its performance is just utterly frustrating at times. I don't know what happened but I never had these problems with Quicktime 7.

Why the hell does Quicktime behave like this??

VLC handles everything quickly. MKVs open immediately and I can track anywhere in the movie right from the start.

[KnightWRX]

Quicktime takes forever to load an MKV, but also takes its sweet time with other longer vidoes. Finder Previews (off to the side in column view) take forever to load, with QTserver taking up huge resources while doing so.

I want to love Quicktime, I really do. It looks great. But its performance is just utterly frustrating at times. I don't know what happened but I never had these problems with Quicktime 7.

Why the hell does Quicktime behave like this??

VLC handles everything quickly. MKVs open immediately and I can track anywhere in the movie right from the start.

Wait, *LTD* not praising an Apple product as the 2nd coming ? Someone mark the calendar, this has got to be new nationnal holiday or something.

Kidding aside, who looks at videos with Quick look anyhow ? Either I watch or don't watch a video, I don't want to just "preview" it on a 48x48 icon (yes I know you can make them bigger...). It's quicker to just open up the video in Mplayer OSX Extended than to preview it in the finder.

And *LTD*, I think Quicktime behaves like this because it doesn't support seeking without an index ;)

[*LTD*]

Wait, *LTD* not praising an Apple product as the 2nd coming ? Someone mark the calendar, this has got to be new nationnal holiday or something.

Kidding aside, who looks at videos with Quick look anyhow ? Either I watch or don't watch a video, I don't want to just "preview" it on a 48x48 icon (yes I know you can make them bigger...). It's quicker to just open up the video in Mplayer OSX Extended than to preview it in the finder.

And *LTD*, I think Quicktime behaves like this because it doesn't support seeking without an index ;)

There is such a thing as leaving the Kool-Aid out too long. ;)

I just noticed that QTserver will load the MKV preview immediately, fine, but Quicktime will take forever to do it. So I can watch a move immediately in the Preview window or the icon (granted, without tracking controls other than Play and Pause), but Quickime X takes its time. Again, likely due to the indexing issue you mentioned.

So why would Quicktime not support seeking without an index??

[Eidorian]

There is such a thing as leaving the Kool-Aid out too long. ;)

I just noticed that QTserver will load the MKV preview immediately, fine, but Quicktime will take forever to do it. So I can watch a move immediately in the Preview window or the icon (granted, without tracking controls other than Play and Pause), but Quickime X takes its time. Again, likely due to the indexing issue you mentioned.

So why would Quicktime not support seeking without an index??I find that strange as well. In Quick Look you don't need to index a MKV but you do in Quicktime.

[*LTD*]

I find that strange as well. In Quick Look you don't need to index a MKV but you do in Quicktime.

And some movies that are viewable via the preview window are not viewable in icon mode. :confused:

[*LTD*]

The plot thickens . . .

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/videolan_vlc_for_mac_death_is_greatly_exaggerated/

[KnightWRX]

So why would Quicktime not support seeking without an index??

It's from Perian's FAQ. Maybe it's not true anymore and they just haven't updated their code base. Maybe Quicktime X finally fixed the issue.

EDIT : I updated my Perian to 1.2 and you're right, Quick look loads the movie instantly and can seek to anywhere without delay. Quicktime X still takes a long time to load the mkv file before starting to play it (loads it entirely still). Quite ridiculous when you think about it.

[*LTD*]

It's from Perian's FAQ. Maybe it's not true anymore and they just haven't updated their code base. Maybe Quicktime X finally fixed the issue.

EDIT : I updated my Perian to 1.2 and you're right, Quick look loads the movie instantly and can seek to anywhere without delay. Quicktime X still takes a long time to load the mkv file before starting to play it (loads it entirely still). Quite ridiculous when you think about it.

The funny thing is, this problem didn't exist in Quicktime 7. The MKV would open immeidately, and granted, you'd see it loading, but it would play immediately while the loading completed. I don't recall whether you could track ahead in Quictkime 7 under these circumstances, but at least the media would play immediately. Nice to see that Quicklook as gotten that much better, but watching, say, HD content in a preview Window or an icon isn't really ideal.

[twoodcc]

and i was hoping to see more and more mac developers, not less

[applesupergeek]

The funny thing is, this problem didn't exist in Quicktime 7. The MKV would open immeidately, and granted, you'd see it loading, but it would play immediately while the loading completed. I don't recall whether you could track ahead in Quictkime 7 under these circumstances, but at least the media would play immediately. Nice to see that Quicklook as gotten that much better, but watching, say, HD content in a preview Window or an icon isn't really ideal.

I do remember the previous quicktime being able to track ahead very quickly, it was an non issue, it's getting kinda frustrating with this version... I get it all the time with .wmv content, it takes literally ages to be able to track ahead, it's disappointing. To be fair when vlc opens a .wmv file you can track ahead immediately but you get blocky output for a few seconds, but that's no problemo in my book when compared to actually waiting finger taping on the desk to just skip ahead a few minutes....

I really hope other people report this and apple adress it...

Btw, thanks all for the heads up for perian, just updated myself.

[MorphingDragon]

a loss for mac users, may or may not be big.

a loss for mac environment, as vlc is a flagship OSS product across the platforms.

probably not a big loss for vlc, as mac only has %4-5 market share globally, and among that, probably much less people use vlc anyway.

vlc does need to come up with a solution to become somewhat solvent financially. buring money and ask for permanent free work from developers are a bit harsh in the long run.

if vlc doesn't like apple's attitude, they should just quit, I dont see apple changing its control freak way of doing things. In fact i dont know why any OSS project would hold their nose to help apple after all. with unfriendly apple and ungrateful apple fans.

You have no clue*.

*Clue available on CD and DVD now.

---

Maybe you need to take a stroll that is the propaganda that is GNU.org. BTW, VLC's target platform is LINUX something that has 1% market share.

[MacGuffin]

Typical of the Mac development "community."

You don't see this laziness and self-interest on Linux. Come on, tear yourselves away from those dime-a-dozen organizer apps and do something we all actually need.

[MorphingDragon]

Typical of the Mac development "community."

You don't see this laziness and self-interest on Linux. Come on, tear yourselves away from those dime-a-dozen organizer apps and do something we all actually need.

You dont understand the MacDev Community at all then.

[elppa]

Typical of the Mac development "community."

You don't see this laziness and self-interest on Linux. Come on, tear yourselves away from those dime-a-dozen organizer apps and do something we all actually need.

That's incredibly insulting to these people:
OmniGroup who produce OmniGraffle (http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnigraffle/)
MacRabbit, who produce CSSEdit (http://macrabbit.com/cssedit/)
Marketcircle, who produce Billings 3 (http://www.billingsapp.com/)
Panic, who produce Coda (http://www.panic.com/coda/)
Delicious Monster, who produce Delicious Library (http://delicious-monster.com/)
Pico and Sofa, who produce Versions (http://versionsapp.com/)
Realmac Software, who produce Little Snapper (http://www.realmacsoftware.com/littlesnapper/)
Varasoftware, who produce ScreenFlow (http://www.varasoftware.com/)
Ironic Software, who produce Leap (http://www.ironicsoftware.com/leap/index.html)
BareBones Software, who produce Yojimbo (http://www.barebones.com/products/yojimbo/)
BeeDocs, who produce BeeDocs Timeline 3D (http://www.beedocs.com/index.php)
Werck, who produce Checkout (http://checkoutapp.com/)
Bohemian Coding, who produce DrawIt (http://bohemiancoding.com/drawit/compose.html)
Berbie Software, who produce TrailRunner (http://trailrunnerx.com/)
Orbicule, who produce Macnification (http://www.macnification.com/)
Zennaware, who produce Cornerstone (http://www.zennaware.com/cornerstone/)
The Soulmen, who produce Ulysses (http://www.the-soulmen.com/ulysses/)
Literature & Latte, who produce Scrivener (http://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener.html)
Saulius Dailide and Aidas Dailide ("Pixelmator Team"), who produce Pixelmator
iwascoding, who produce GarageSale (http://www.iwascoding.com/GarageSale/)
Cultured Code, who produce Things (http://culturedcode.com/things/)
FileMaker, who produce Bento (http://www.filemaker.com/bento/)
Nisus, who produce NisusWriter (http://www.nisus.com/)
TweakerSoft, who produce VectorDesigner (http://www.tweakersoft.com/vectordesigner/)
Acacia Tree Software, who produce SousChef (http://acaciatreesoftware.com/)
e3 Software , who produce Direct Mail (http://ethreesoftware.com/directmail/index.php)
Acrylic Software, who produce Times (http://www.acrylicapps.com/times/)
atebits, who produce Tweetie (http://www.atebits.com/tweetie-mac/)

The mac developer community (which you seem to take so much issue with) are actually a community and for the most part very helpful and supportive to each other.

They also — get this — produce tools of far more use and value to me than the FOSS community you champion. Surely as they are less lazy and have less self interest they should be producing better results? But they don't.

So find me the apps of the same quality on the Linux side or take it back.

[poe diddley]

definitely bummed about this.
VLC is the best all around media player for mac.
i can't count how many times i've tried open various wmv's or avi's that simply would not play correctly in Quicktime or anything else. I have all the stupid plugin junks that you can get for QT, and if i'm not mistaken i have the paid for version of the flip4mac and it still doesn't work as well as VLC.

why does playing video formats other than QT on the mac suck so bad? i mean it's possible, but you have to either find all these alternative players or download a bunch of crappy plugins for QT that only work right part of the time. the only reason i gripe is that the mac is supposed to be the best platform for editing video/audio as it has always been, i won't dispute it, but if i want to watch a wmv i have to jump thru 10 hoops....

somebody rich donate some money to VLC's mac department. please.

[KnightWRX]

Typical of the Mac development "community."

You don't see this laziness and self-interest on Linux. Come on, tear yourselves away from those dime-a-dozen organizer apps and do something we all actually need.

Again, for the people coming in late and not reading all the articles related to this, the VLC dev team clarified their earlier point. VLC's old UI for MAC has no dev support anymore. That's because all the Mac devs for VLC are working on a brand new UI project.

There is no death of VLC on Mac, it was all a big misunderstanding by the tech news sites. Read for yourself :

http://wiki.videolan.org/Lunettes#VLC_for_Mac_death_is_.22greatly_exaggerated.22_.2F_What_is_Lunettes.3F

[IntelliUser]

I like VLC, it's one the most powerful player I've used, but I got sick of the performance issues it's got. On Windows, I by a lot preferred using The KMPlayer rather than VLC. I've often encountered audio and video glitches during playback, and even crashes.

For now, I'm using QuickTime X + Perian for everything. It's alright, though I miss the subtitle support that VLC had. And about MKV files, not that big of a deal for me, usually they're HD movies, which Quicktime plays smoothly (once fully indexed) while VLC stutters while going through the video, and often crashes. QT's performance also seems better to me.

In the end, Apple either needs to add some subtitle loading tools and let QT play mkv (etc.) files instantly or VLC needs to get its bugs fixed, otherwise there's no way I'll be able to just use one of them.

[ekdor]

Really, Apple, you're becoming more and more annoying to third party developers. Pissing off Adobe, pissing off a bunch of indie developers (and Google) with the idiotic approval process for the iTunes App Store, and now this...

And who have to suffer for it? Your loyal customers. :mad:

I find myself having this kind of thought more and more lately. Along with what I call a breach in my freedom of speech in their support forums where I was repeatedly censored for describing my situation which demonstrates why I made the wrong choice by picking the iPhone as my product due to some facts (not Apples cause) that make the iPhone unsuitable in my rural situation in Australia.

I've been a Mac user since the early-mid eighties and now (lately) find myself starting to seriously question how much longer I will remain an Apple user. There are other options available and no Windows isn't one of them since, for now, Apple still offer the better product and conduct business better. But their trend seems to be getting more and more familiar in light of M$ history. Also I've been a windows ICT Support officer for hardware and software departments which didn't convince me I want to use M$ equipment or software. But I do hear some good things coming out of the Linux arena. Might be worth some consideration when this machine become due for replacement within the next year.

[MorphingDragon]

Perian works much better for the support it adds to Quick Look. In the ultimate irony Quicktime is probably the worst application for video playback.

Quicktime is a shadow of its former self.

[hitekalex]

You all should try MOVIST.. Best media player for Mac OS, bar none.

[tofagerl]

Problem is Movist is far more unstable and lacks features.

I love it though. It's my go-to app for video, took over from NicePlayer.

[aaronptrck]

Well I guess we can resurrect this topic! VLC 1.0.5 is now out... This is the first update in nearly 3 months.

VLC is one of my favorite programs.... I do hope developers re-join the project and help build new versions!

[KnightWRX]

VLC is one of my favorite programs.... I do hope developers re-join the project and help build new versions!

The developers never left :

Again, for the people coming in late and not reading all the articles related to this, the VLC dev team clarified their earlier point. VLC's old UI for MAC has no dev support anymore. That's because all the Mac devs for VLC are working on a brand new UI project.

There is no death of VLC on Mac, it was all a big misunderstanding by the tech news sites. Read for yourself :

http://wiki.videolan.org/Lunettes#VLC_for_Mac_death_is_.22greatly_exaggerated.22_.2F_What_is_Lunettes.3F

You'd think after a month, everyone would be aware this was all blown out of proportions.