Motion Now Shipping

[MacRumors]

Motion (http://www.apple.com/motion/) provides motion-graphics creation with real-time previews, procedural behavior animation and Final Cut Pro HD integration. Available as a stand-alone product, or now available in a Production Suite (http://www.apple.com/productionsuite/), and a price point of only $299, Motion provides studio-quality video motion graphics at a mere fraction of the previous cost.

[GroundLoop]

Production Suite is a sweet deal at $499 with the educational discount. I will be ordering by the end of the week. Looks like it will barely run on the PB in my sig. But I do not want to get a new PowerMac for another year or so.

Hickman

[Grimace]

Motion (http://www.apple.com/motion/) provides motion-graphics creation with real-time previews, procedural behavior animation and Final Cut Pro HD integration. Available as a stand-alone product, or now available in a Production Suite (http://www.apple.com/productionsuite/), and a price point of only $299, Motion provides studio-quality video motion graphics at a mere fraction of the previous cost.

This an awesome deal!! (the package) - way to go Apple!! :)

[GrannySmith_G5]

Do the minimum system requirements for motion mean that the program won't even launch with lesser stats? Or will it run but just slow and crappy?
I have a slightly slower processor(800 instead of 867) and slightly lower graphics card(9200 instead of 9600) then is listed on minimum req. I just got this ibookg4 last November and would like to think I will at least be able to RUN the program.

[snack]

Motion requires 10.3.5... is this where the real enhancements to that update lie, I wonder?
snax

[edesignuk]

Do the minimum system requirements for motion mean that the program won't even launch with lesser stats? Or will it run but just slow and crappy?
I have a slightly slower processor(800 instead of 867) and slightly lower graphics card(9200 instead of 9600) then is listed on minimum req. I just got this ibookg4 last November and would like to think I will at least be able to RUN the program.I all fairness you don't buy the lowest level consumor apple notebook to run state of the art professional level software, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't run at all.

[encro]

There is also a Production Suite upgrade for users of ANY version of Final Cut Pro. AU$1099 (US$699)

[CmdrLaForge]

Production Suite is a sweet deal at $499 with the educational discount. I will be ordering by the end of the week. Looks like it will barely run on the PB in my sig. But I do not want to get a new PowerMac for another year or so.

Hickman

Absolutly - that is really a great deal !!!! I will get the production suite as well ! :D Good job Apple !!! ;)

The only problem is I currently don't have a Mac where this Suite would run on. OMG - I need a new Mac as well. Well I am still waiting for the G5 Powerbook.

[macridah]

People called it ... after 10.3.5 was released, some software news on tues would come out that would need 10.3.3: Motion.

I'm happy with the news. I won't personally get it, but I know there are some people that have been waiting for it. Go Apple.

[GrannySmith_G5]

I all fairness you don't buy the lowest level consumor apple notebook to run state of the art professional level software, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't run at all.

Oh, I understand. I do run professional software on my ibook even though the performance isn't fantastic. I'm patient enough to wait a little while for renders and what not. I was thinking about getting the production bundle with the education discount, but will wait to see if motion will be usable for me. The previous version of final cut pro, dvd studio pro, after effects, etc. all run good enough for me to enjoy them on this system. Was just hoping if I got the production bundle I would be able to at least use motion. That's all.

[the silver fox]

Do the minimum system requirements for motion mean that the program won't even launch with lesser stats? Or will it run but just slow and crappy?
I have a slightly slower processor(800 instead of 867) and slightly lower graphics card(9200 instead of 9600) then is listed on minimum req. I just got this ibookg4 last November and would like to think I will at least be able to RUN the program.

normally apple put in a block on systems that dont match the spec: ichat, fcp, dvd sp all use it...

people always release hacks to get round this, but since A) its illegal and B) it sucks to run software sub-spec... I wouldn't recommend it

[hamishb]

I have Final Cut Express and Sound Track. No upgrade path for me? I really don't need two copies of Sound Track - maybe I'll have to ebay it?

[njmac]

$499 for the education package!!!! the shipping date on my order says 2-3 weeks

[michaelrjohnson]

I also won't be buying, but I'd love to try it out sometime. Good deal on the educational package though!

[ifjake]

maybe in the future. depends on whether i go for the masters in media in a couple of years. if the bundle had Logic Pro, i'd probably just get it now.

[AmigoMac]

I also won't be buying, but I'd love to try it out sometime. Good deal on the educational package though!

For sure a motion-like application will come included in iMovie 6 ... be patient and wait for MWSF 06 ;) :D

[dizastor]

Production Suite.
Sweeeeeeeeet.

Seriously though, this is one kick-@ss deal. I have extra money in my budget now! I originally had planned to buy all three at regular price x3.

Is it wrong to feel so much geek-joy?

[TylerL]

Motion works off a built-in version of the CoreVideo/CoreImage frameworks that will be in Tiger. Notice that the video card requirements for Motion and CoreVideo/Image are the same.
That's the only way Motion can do the "OMG how is that realtime?" video effects.
Motion without one of the high-end programmable video cards (from what I've heard/know) is impossible.

[brykken]

Quick Story -

I am a student and last Thursday I went to the EDU store and purchased Final Cut Pro along with DVD Studio Pro for a total of $748. My FCP shipment was delayed and this morning Apple email me to tell me that they upgraded my $499 order for FCP was upgraded to the Production Suite for the same price! That means I will get 3 programs that I was willing to pay over $1000 for, for only $499.

The only problem was that I had already been shipped DVD Studio Pro and it had been opened. I gave apple a ring and they quickly agreed to pay to return it for the FULL amount! I have been slightly jaded with the push back of my Dual 2.5, so this has renewed my confidence in Apple. Way to go Apple!

*Now ship my PowerMac!!! :D

[madrobby]

Motion works off a built-in version of the CoreVideo/CoreImage frameworks that will be in Tiger. Notice that the video card requirements for Motion and CoreVideo/Image are the same.
That's the only way Motion can do the "OMG how is that realtime?" video effects.
Motion without one of the high-end programmable video cards (from what I've heard/know) is impossible.

Motion - yes. CoreVideo/Image - no (software emulation/not realtime). But because Motions needs the realtime part, a video card is a must. There might be other apps not depending on the realtime stuff (still, realtime is obviously better...); SJ mentioned Adobe/Photoshop on his keynote... In Photoshop I not so good video card could still render many CoreImage effects in realtime, more complicated effects would be in software (like the current Photoshop filters). Also, a third party could launch a CoreImage-based plugin filter set...

[njmac]

I know every once in a while someone will rant about the pos/neg voting. this time I really have to wonder, WHO could think this news is negative? am I missing something?

[Ge4-ce]

are there any restrictions for the educational version?

I am a student now, can I buy now with a edu discount and later use it for commercial work?

[AmigoMac]

are there any restrictions for the educational version?

I am a student now, can I buy now with a edu discount and later use it for commercial work?

But... may you ...? :rolleyes: :p

[njmac]

are there any restrictions for the educational version?

I am a student now, can I buy now with a edu discount and later use it for commercial work?
It's not actually an educational version, it's educational pricing.It's exactly the same. Use it for anything including commercial work

EDIT: sorry, It seems the license you get with the academic version restricts you to academic use, not commercial use

[bubbagump]

Has anyone ever used Adobe After Effects? (I am speaking of 5.5 or earlier. The new versions may be different.) This is how one would operate inside of After Effects: set keyframes, then do a RAM preview (i.e. prerender) to see if the timing is okay. Sometimes the RAM preview was not even at full speed. While I did some awesome work in AE, this work pattern was quite annoying. Now, in Motion, one gets realtime previews driven by the graphics accelerator. This is a great breakthrough.

[iGav]

Now, in Motion, one gets realtime previews driven by the graphics accelerator. This is a great breakthrough.

You'll be able to choke Motion as well... same way as After Effects does if you don't pre-comp stuff and have ridiculous numbers of layers all doing their thing. ;)

[FlamDrag]

Crap, my rev a Powerbook 17 won't run it. I've been waiting for Motion since its announcement, and now I notice that my video card isn't on the list.

[Ge4-ce]

Hiaaaaa! I think my new 2.5 dual G5 with 4.5 Gigs of ram and the nVidia 6800 card will run motion awesome!

now, if it would only arrive soon :(

[ObsidianIce]

4.5 gigs? just curious what reseller did you buy from? They running a promo for it?




Hiaaaaa! I think my new 2.5 dual G5 with 4.5 Gigs of ram and the nVidia 6800 card will run motion awesome!

now, if it would only arrive soon :(

[~Shard~]

No Shake or Logic included in the Production Suite? That would cover all the bases! ;) That would be a bit much though, and then Apple would run into the problem of people only wanting certain pro apps (not all 5) and not being willing to pay for all 5 together. I think this combination of FCP, DVDSP and Motion makes sense...

Quite the system requirements for Motion as well! :eek:

[Bendit]

Do the minimum system requirements for motion mean that the program won't even launch with lesser stats? Or will it run but just slow and crappy?
I have a slightly slower processor(800 instead of 867) and slightly lower graphics card(9200 instead of 9600) then is listed on minimum req. I just got this ibookg4 last November and would like to think I will at least be able to RUN the program.

Why would you expect a year old low end notebook meant for web browsing and looking at pictures to be able to a run a new cutting-edge professional video graphics application? That's what the PowerMacs are for and a new PowerBook if you must have it portable.

[nuckinfutz]

It's not actually an educational version, it's educational pricing.It's exactly the same. Use it for anything including commercial work

No you cannot use Academic software for commericial purposes. That violates the user agreement. You can upgrade to the full commericial license though.

[myapplseedshurt]

The production suite seems powerful, but pricey. Can anyone provide some pros and cons to purchasing it given that I'm a HOBBYIST when it comes to photos/videos. Much appreciated. :)

[myapplseedshurt]

Hiaaaaa! I think my new 2.5 dual G5 with 4.5 Gigs of ram and the nVidia 6800 card will run motion awesome!

now, if it would only arrive soon :(

I know your excited, but if you don't calm down, you might explode. :p

[Porchland]

For sure a motion-like application will come included in iMovie 6 ... be patient and wait for MWSF 06 ;) :D

Personally, I think support for true 16:9 is the must-have feature for iMovie 6.

[relimw]

Motion (http://www.apple.com/motion/) provides motion-graphics creation with real-time previews, procedural behavior animation and Final Cut Pro HD integration. Available as a stand-alone product, or now available in a Production Suite (http://www.apple.com/productionsuite/), and a price point of only $299, Motion provides studio-quality video motion graphics at a mere fraction of the previous cost.

Now this is way cool. Now all I have to do is decide what I want when I order my G5 to run it on.... Hmmm :)

[zim]

I was going to buy DVD Studio Pro 3, academic, but it is no longer available by itself academic. SOooo... I guess I HAVE, hehe, to buy the production bundle :) BUT, will motion work at all on my iMac, 20" 1.25G4 768MB RAM? I know that DVD Studio Pro works, I have been using my friends at his house I know that FCP will work on it, because again, he has it running on the same computer... but would Motion? I would expect for it to be slower but it should still at least run pretty well seeing how I am above the min requirements, right?

Thanks :D

[njmac]

No you cannot use Academic software for commericial purposes. That violates the user agreement. You can upgrade to the full commericial license though.
oops, sorry for the wrong info. I got bad info from someone, I should've checked

[jared_kipe]

Oh how I can't wait to see this in 'motion'.

[alanbuilds]

normally apple put in a block on systems that dont match the spec: ichat, fcp, dvd sp all use it...

people always release hacks to get round this, but since A) its illegal and B) it sucks to run software sub-spec... I wouldn't recommend it
Looks like the last generation iMacs can meet min. specs, but iBooks can't (graphics card insufficiency).

Good news for the upcoming iMac,Though!

[alanbuilds]

I was going to buy DVD Studio Pro 3, academic, but it is no longer available by itself academic. SOooo... I guess I HAVE, hehe, to buy the production bundle :) BUT, will motion work at all on my iMac, 20" 1.25G4 768MB RAM? I know that DVD Studio Pro works, I have been using my friends at his house I know that FCP will work on it, because again, he has it running on the same computer... but would Motion? I would expect for it to be slower but it should still at least run pretty well seeing how I am above the min requirements, right?

Thanks :D
Yes

[GrannySmith_G5]

Why would you expect a year old low end notebook meant for web browsing and looking at pictures to be able to a run a new cutting-edge professional video graphics application? That's what the PowerMacs are for and a new PowerBook if you must have it portable.

Damn me and my archaic year old laptop. I do a lot more then browse the web and look at pictures on my low end, year old ibook. I suspect a lot of other people do as well. You are right though. I'll be stopping by my local apple store after I leave the water bar tonight to pick up a g5 powermac so I can run this "cutting edge professional" $300 application. After all, clearly only a POWER user would ever use motion. Now that I know that I've been misusing my ibook, I can delete all the programs I have except for safari and preview and free up a buttload of disc space to store awesome pictures I download off of geocities and tripod sites! Sweet.

My 17inch imac won't run it either. I've got to stop buying these expensive web browsers and get a real man's computer.

[dubbz]

Do the minimum system requirements for motion mean that the program won't even launch with lesser stats? Or will it run but just slow and crappy?
I have a slightly slower processor(800 instead of 867) and slightly lower graphics card(9200 instead of 9600) then is listed on minimum req. I just got this ibookg4 last November and would like to think I will at least be able to RUN the program.

Despite what the model numer suggests, the 9200 and the 9600 are two different generations of hardware (ie: The 9200 is a DX8 card, while the 9600 is a DX9). The 9200 is more or less a 8500... It could be that Motion require features not present in the previous generation of cards. (I see that the GeForce 5200 is supported... In terms of speed it's fairly equal to the 9200, but the 5200 is a DX9-card and support more advanced technologies).

[Laslo Panaflex]

Damn me and my archaic year old laptop. I do a lot more then browse the web and look at pictures on my low end, year old ibook. I suspect a lot of other people do as well. You are right though. I'll be stopping by my local apple store after I leave the water bar tonight to pick up a g5 powermac so I can run this "cutting edge professional" $300 application. After all, clearly only a POWER user would ever use motion. Now that I know that I've been misusing my ibook, I can delete all the programs I have except for safari and preview and free up a buttload of disc space to store awesome pictures I download off of geocities and tripod sites! Sweet.

My 17inch imac won't run it either. I've got to stop buying these expensive web browsers and get a real man's computer.

When you see motion running in real life you will see why the system requirements are so high, and why your computers can't run it.

I saw Motion at NAB this year, when it was announced, and needless to say, it is going to save me loads of time. Bye, bye After Effects and Livetype.

[jrv3034]

No you cannot use Academic software for commericial purposes. That violates the user agreement. You can upgrade to the full commericial license though.

I have FCP4 and DVD SP 2 Academic versions. Can I purchase the upgrade to the Production Suite which includes FCP HD, DVD SP 3 and Motion and have it be "full commercial license", or do I have to pay full price to use commercial license? Can I just order it online? If so, that would be great.

[zim]

Yes

:D

Thanks, just need someone to agree with me... hehe.

I do wish that they would do a second bundle with FCE, Motion and DVD Studio Pro. I think apple often forgets that they made DVD Studio Pro to appeal to two different audiences, the hobbits who need more then iDVD and the Pros who want the pro features.

I currently have FCE, this bundle will be an upgrade for me to pro... maybe I will wait a bit and see if anything happens in the express area.

[J_Berg]

The production suite seems powerful, but pricey. Can anyone provide some pros and cons to purchasing it given that I'm a HOBBYIST when it comes to photos/videos. Much appreciated. :)

It's both extremely powerful and extremely affordable. I moved from Discreet Edit and Discreet Combustion to the Apple lineup about a year ago. These products have become so much easier to use. The Discreet software alone cost us around $13,000 five years ago (and that was far from the high end!). Now you can do WAY more with FCP and Motion and author DVD's for just over a grand? Nice work Apple. Although I still use Combustion for some compositing, they too have had to lower their prices to keep up with apple type products.

BUT... to answer your question, iMovie and iDvd do a fairly impressive job at putting together some simple cut dvd's, especially for free programs. If you are willing to put in the time to learn the higher end products, and want the added power and functionality, these products take a huge leap for a minimal price. Check out the apple product sites and take the tours, etc. And decide if you want to use/learn the features of these higher end products. Remember the programs in the production suite were designed to meet the needs of broadcast professionals, filmmakers, and production companies. You are getting a toolkit of what used to cost thousands of dollars.

They know what they are doing, they're practically giving away highly developed and respected software because even the dual proc you bought last year is too slow to run it! How about another round of dual 2.5 G5's?! (I'm, still impatiently waiting for mine by the way...)

[Apple of my eye]

You can get motion for 279.99 tax free with free shipping!!

[nuckinfutz]

I have FCP4 and DVD SP 2 Academic versions. Can I purchase the upgrade to the Production Suite which includes FCP HD, DVD SP 3 and Motion and have it be "full commercial license", or do I have to pay full price to use commercial license? Can I just order it online? If so, that would be great.

That's a good question. Apple is going to need to offer a special upgrade for those that want to do just that...move from Edu to Commercial. Right now I'm not sure we have the answer we need available.

The production suite seems powerful, but pricey. Can anyone provide some pros and cons to purchasing it given that I'm a HOBBYIST when it comes to photos/videos. Much appreciated.

The PSuite would be overkill for you. As a hobbyist you're likely going to be fine with Final Cut Express and iLife. The PSuite really gives you a lot.

Final Cut Pro- scales from Standard Definition(SD) to High Definition(HD). Robust Nonlinear Editor with many realtime effects.

Comes with

LiveType- A titler that gives you animated fonts and volumetric lighting(think rays of light shining through fonts).

Cinema Tools- Used to be a seperate $1k package. It handles the importing of Film and other 24 frame formats.

Soundtrack- Like Garageband more more oriented towards video pros.

Then you add

Motion- Very fast motion graphics and Keying. It addresses the limited motion graphics in FCP. This program is very easy and fun to use but it still has depth.

DVD Studio Pro- Burn DVDs that look as professional as your skills allow. Motion and Final Cut Pro work hand in hand with this app.

Basically if you are a hobbyist you don't "need" the PSuite but if you had the PSuite your finished product could look and sound great.

[lancerx78]

After having attended last month's Motion certification course, I will say that it runs respectably on a 17" Powerbook. It was still in beta at that time, and I can't wait to see the finished version! You guys are going to love the real-time effects of this program... trust me.

[nagromme]

Apple's pro creative products have gotten great reviews all along. But look how much you now get bundled, vs. what things used to (or still do) cost alone! Here's what things have cost in the past:

* Final Cut Pro $999
* Cinema Tools $999
* QuickTime Pro $29.99
* QuickTime MPEG-2 Playback $19.99
* Soundtrack with thousands of loops $199
* BIAS Peak Express $199
* Compressor (not available alone)
* LiveType with LiveFonts collection (not available alone)
* Boris Calligraphy (not available alone but still qualifies for Boris upgrades)
* DVD Studio Pro $499
* Motion $299

That comes to $3243--and the non-priced items add a LOT of additional value.

Now with Production Suite you get the latest version of ALL of the above for $499 (education), or $699-$1299 (everyone else).

[Bendit]

Damn me and my archaic year old laptop. I do a lot more then browse the web and look at pictures on my low end, year old ibook. I suspect a lot of other people do as well. You are right though. I'll be stopping by my local apple store after I leave the water bar tonight to pick up a g5 powermac so I can run this "cutting edge professional" $300 application. After all, clearly only a POWER user would ever use motion. Now that I know that I've been misusing my ibook, I can delete all the programs I have except for safari and preview and free up a buttload of disc space to store awesome pictures I download off of geocities and tripod sites! Sweet.

My 17inch imac won't run it either. I've got to stop buying these expensive web browsers and get a real man's computer.

You're taking what I said too literally. Although you can use all sorts of high end apps on a low end machine it's not meant to be used by it. The iBook is geared towards students and people who don't need power. You clearly do.

I myself find my 1ghz PowerBook to be a little slow for stuff like Photoshop.

[Rocketfella]

Hi all,

Very interested as a student about the education Production Suite -- as I'm sure many are.

Has anyone found info on the site about upgrade pricing from this to the commercial version of Production Suite if this is the way to do it?

Any link to terms and conditions of the education 'version'?

[AliensAreFuzzy]

It's been said before, but I'll say it again. MAN, that is one HOT deal on that package. It's like buying Final Cut Pro HD and getting Motion and DVD Studio Pro for FREE! :D

[Hoef]

Anyone got an idea whether Motion will be the AE killer?

[AliensAreFuzzy]

Anyone got an idea whether Motion will be the AE killer?

I bet it will. I tried to us After Effects. That's really not a great interface or way of doing things. Motion has realtime previews and a genuine Apple interface. It'll kick AE's buns.

[Hoef]

Darn, now I have to get rit of DVD Studio Pro and buy the bundle .... Makes more sense for me. Anyone interested in DVD SP3 Academic? .... Opened the box, but never installed or registered (still waiting for the G5 ... whereas software came in faster than speed of light).

[kingtj]

Seriously, are you already familiar with using Logic software, or do you just want it to have Apple's MIDI/music package to go with everything else?

I used a lot of different MIDI sequencers and HD recording software on the PC before moving mostly to the Mac a couple years ago. I don't find that many people who ever really liked Logic Audio on the PC, and it looks about the same on the Mac....

It's not that its feature set is lacking or anything. It just seems very non-intuitive and overly difficult to get around in it! This is something I've found even harder to believe is accepted on the Mac platform, than over in a Windows environment!

It's a little frustrating to me that for years, the Mac was considered the way to go for computerized music production work, but someplace along the line, they let that slip. The PC got software like "ACID Pro" before the Mac had anything even remotely equivalent, and it still has pretty user-friendly sequencers like Cakewalk Pro Audio/Sonar and high-end HD recording packages like "SAW Pro" that don't exist for Mac at all.

When Apple bought out Logic and canned the PC version, I understood their desire to sort of "buy their way back into the pro audio market", but it seemed like the worst possible choice to align themselves with. Steinberg would have been a much more powerful business to own/control, for example.


maybe in the future. depends on whether i go for the masters in media in a couple of years. if the bundle had Logic Pro, i'd probably just get it now.

[nagromme]

Any link to terms and conditions of the education 'version'?

It's worth being sure before you buy... but Apple's deals for education are most often nothing but a lower price! If so, then you get the SAME version everyone else pays more for!

I'm pretty sure that's the case here, since there is only ONE version of Production Suite at the Apple Store.

Enjoy your free lunch :)

[JFreak]

It's not actually an educational version, it's educational pricing.It's exactly the same. Use it for anything including commercial work

are you sure? have you compared the license papers included in two differently priced boxes? are they exactly the same? it is the license what you are paying for, the media is cheap.

[mr_austin]

the PS is a great deal but let's cover a few things:

- unless they changed it with this release, the edu version of FCP is NOT upgradeable to the full commercial version.

- Motion is NOT an AE killer. AE is on version 6.5, and has been rock solid for years. It has an amazing color corrector, 3D camera import, 3D layers, professional keyer, etc. etc. It's also THE standard for desktop compositing/motion graphics. (although i'll probably pick up motion... but not before I get particular (http://www.trapcode.com/products_particular.html)). No one who uses AE full time (like myself) is even considering dropping AE yet. (In fact, when motion was released, a lot of the AE people were scared Adobe was going to drop Mac, in which case, we'd go buy PCs. AE is THAT good.)

Motion looks promising, but it's a 1.0. FCP and DVDSP weren't USABLE until 3.0.

[srdashiki]

Ok, So AE is on 6.5, and Motion is 1.0

But look at it this way all you ever had was AE for YEEEEEARS on broadcast and the like. Not that you use AE for much else professionally. And in only a few years FCP has gone to 4.5 (cmon HD is 4.5) and is a new standard in DV and obviously soon to be HD (if the standard ever comes, you all know that DVDs arent HDTV right?). I argue FCP is not broadcast standard yet but is fastly becoming a niche market for itself in being cheap (cost wise only)

Now Adobe already dropped premiere cuz it sucked anyway and FCP just made them stop supporting it. So tell me AE isnt in trouble to some extent. AE requires ALOT OF SKILL to use effectively in a professional environment and thusly you need someone who costs alot of $. Now with motion you can have entry level people be just as effective as the AE gurus for a lower cost. And the real kicker to me is that, look at livetype and then look to motion. How long does it take to make something cool looking? 30min at the most if you know what you want and what you are doing. Now in broadcast (the biggest market and really the only one, without getting into film and the 24p people) you need stuff NOW and FAST for the nightly news. So you say JOHNSON MAKE ME A MOTION GRAPHIC. The AE guy would take all day to keyframe and tweak, render etc. And it would look good. BUt the motion guy would crank it out in 1/20th the time and would probably look better because tweaking isnt really as difficult as it is in AE.

THE ONE THING AE ALWAYS HAS GOING FOR IT, is layers. FCP sucks at layers, AE rocks layers in RT and everything you would ever want. BUT like I say what does LiveType and Motion NOT have that AE does? I can tell you the one thing Motion will take eons to get: VECTOR PAINT. Vector paint is the professional bundle of AE6 and it kicks ass with what you can do. And motion is missing it, so no real time hand drawn effects, stylus created moving masks etc etc. So AE has a legup in a few categories but what remains in the professional MONEY MAKING world is cost and time. Apples suite cuts time and cost into a fraction businesses (and competitors im sure) pee their pants at.

And another thing LIVETYPE is ALWAYS gonna BE THE TEXT motion program. If you play with Motion and its text stuff, its not treated the way LiveType treats it. You have to use both together to make motion graphics with good animated text. Plain 3D text, fine Motion is good for you. But for those of us who have used LiveType to make presentations and DVDs and the like, know it has alot of stuff it can do (and ALOT MISSING TOO) that motion doesnt do. Motion is for graphics and single entities, LiveType is for text, cuz LiveType can let you edit, manipulate in EVYERWHICHWAY each individual letter, motion treats the text as ONE object. GET THE POINT!?

I hope so. Rock on.

[iGav]

Anyone got an idea whether Motion will be the AE killer?

Certainly not yet... and has been pointed out, unlikely to until atleast the 2nd release or maybe even the 3rd. The lack of 3D support alone is a MAJOR issue. I've also heard rumours that it lacks Vector import support, I can't imagine that such a basic requirement would be left out though.

The one thing I am expecting as a result of this app is a whole host of poor quality, ubiquitous motion graphics due to the fact that it's 'Behaviour' based, alittle like how the web was influxed with poor quality, unimaginative Flash sites immediately after it's launch. Something that has taken 5 years to drop and erase from the minds and desires of clients. :eek: :rolleyes: :)

I'll add Motion to my current motion workflow which currently includes After Effects 6, Combustion 3 and Shake 3.5, but I'm expecting it to be only in supplement to those apps, not a viable replacement, even for After Effects.

[jelloshotsrule]

Motion looks promising, but it's a 1.0. FCP and DVDSP weren't USABLE until 3.0.

i agree that motion won't kill ae right away, if ever... but i think fcp was certainly pretty good by version 2. even though by version 1 it had gotten most to drop premiere (though it didn't compete so much with avid yet...)

same goes for dvdsp i'd say

as for srdashiki's post... it's definitely not as simple as "an awesome ae guy could do it well, but an entry level motion guy could do it well in 1/20th the time"... there's more to motion graphics than just tossing together presets, believe it or not

i agree that motion will probably reduce cost, but i don't think that it will reduce the need for talented artists, right igav? ;)

[Apple of my eye]

Anyone got an idea whether Motion will be the AE killer?

When working on any project the more creative tools you have the better. AE did not go away when Discreet released combustion ( 3.0 rocks! ) and AE will not go away now that Motion is here. Sure Premier went bye bye, but how many editing programs do you need for editing a project? One. But when working with motion graphics and compositing the more tools and tricks up your sleeve the better. For example, LiveType for text, FCPHD for editing, Combustion 3 for amazing particle effects and 3D tools, AE for vector paint and 3D tools, and Motion for RT effects and more cool particle effects ( not to mention the amazing MSRP of 299! ). All these programs can work together to give you a product that will sell.

System Requirements, another reason AE is not dead. You can run AE on some really barebones systems ( compaired to the Motion Sys Reqs ). By the time you upgrade your system as reccommended by Apple you could have bought a hell of a lot of other software tools.

[njmac]

are you sure? have you compared the license papers included in two differently priced boxes? are they exactly the same? it is the license what you are paying for, the media is cheap.
No, I was given bad information, and I'm sorry that I passed that on. It seems you have to get an additional license to use the ap for pro work.

[radio893fm]

Have any of you ever tried Vegas? Real time, real easy...

And I agree... Motion will complement and be a tool for quick, nice things... but still AE is the 'more complex thing' solution.

[mr_austin]

But when working with motion graphics and compositing the more tools and tricks up your sleeve the better. For example, LiveType for text, FCPHD for editing, Combustion 3 for amazing particle effects and 3D tools, AE for vector paint and 3D tools, and Motion for RT effects and more cool particle effects ( not to mention the amazing MSRP of 299! ). All these programs can work together to give you a product that will sell.

This is true, but switching between programs can be a pain as well, especially when time is a factor (when is it not?). I used to do particles in C*, and integrate with C4D stuff in AE, but it ended up being slower and more difficult to tweak, so I just do particles in C4D, or a plugin. If I have the choice between motion, C*, and AE (plugin) for particles, AE is going to win just to keep things simple.

One thing that Motion has going for it is DVD menu creation (i see it as a HUGE complement to DVDSP) with back-and-forth editing similar to FCP/LiveType or PSD/AE.

I use C4D with AE often, but often I'll use invigorator, or render still frame as a quick fix just to speed up he process.

Also, I think people are just set in their ways. For example, I never use livetype. AI/C4D/AE can do just about anything I want to do with text. Motion will be great for early adopters and 'Johnson, get me a graphic'/Digital Juice types, but AE is not in trouble... (yet)

[Montserrat]

Quick Story -

I am a student and last Thursday I went to the EDU store and purchased Final Cut Pro along with DVD Studio Pro for a total of $748. My FCP shipment was delayed and this morning Apple email me to tell me that they upgraded my $499 order for FCP was upgraded to the Production Suite for the same price! That means I will get 3 programs that I was willing to pay over $1000 for, for only $499.

The only problem was that I had already been shipped DVD Studio Pro and it had been opened. I gave apple a ring and they quickly agreed to pay to return it for the FULL amount! I have been slightly jaded with the push back of my Dual 2.5, so this has renewed my confidence in Apple. Way to go Apple!
:D

Dude, That's a beautiful story. Brought a tear to my eye. Seriously though, that's ********* ace customer support

[nuckinfutz]

Great Peter Wiggins Motion review (http://www.creativecow.net/show.php?page=/articles/wiggins_peter/motion_rev/index.html)

Lest anyone think Motion doesn't have some nice features check out the above review. This app is very nice for a version 1 give it 2 more major updates and the lines between AE and Motion will begin to blur.

I agree with the poster above DVD Studio Pro and Motion go together hand in hand. In fact, there are new videos on Apple's Motion page showing the included templates. Many templates would make a DVD project look professional from the start. Check the water effects...very nice.

Apple truly is going to have one hell of a workflow. In 5 years I'm betting they have over a million FCP workflow setups and the Production Suite will consist of at least 2 new apps.

We also know that Quicktime 6.6 (http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45075) is going to have some nice features that greatly impact what the future Apple Pro products can do. This is only the beginning. I don't see AE being the stalwart that it is in 4 -5 years. Motion is just built better from the core. Adobe will have to totally re-architect AE to compete.

[mr_austin]

I don't see AE being the stalwart that it is in 4 -5 years. Motion is just built better from the core. Adobe will have to totally re-architect AE to compete.

You're right about Motion being built better from the core, but 4-5 years is a long time. (I think we paid 25K for a media 100 in 99 or so...)

As for re-architecting to compete:

"The render for the 8 second clip took 44 minutes using the Apple 10bit uncompressed codec." I don't see that as blowing AE out of the water... even with 256 layers. the AE team is not a bunch of stiffs. Every update has been better than the last. This isn't a Premiere/FCP case where apple's product is clearly superior (although it does look nice for a 1.0)

And the better products don't always win in the market (windows, quark).

That said, at 299, go buy it anyway :)

[nuckinfutz]

"The render for the 8 second clip took 44 minutes using the Apple 10bit uncompressed codec." I don't see that as blowing AE out of the water... even with 256 layers. the AE team is not a bunch of stiffs. Every update has been better than the last. This isn't a Premiere/FCP case where apple's product is clearly superior (although it does look nice for a 1.0)

The only problem is rendering in Motion isn't any faster than AE or any other product but where Motion is going to demolish AE is in all the work preceding the render. No need for RAM previews and test renders. In Motion I just loop the video and keep tweaking until things look the way I want then and only then do I need to render.

For those that don't get my gist think of rendering as a Toll Booth on a highway. It's going to slow everyone down on that highway.

Motion sits on a highway that has a 200mph speed limit

AE sits on a highway with a 55mph speedlimit.

With Motion I'm getting to that Toll Booth a lot faster. 4-5 years is a lot of time. 5 years ago FCP was just hitting. Avid had left the Mac and Apple was struggling. Today FCP has over 250k registered seats. Apple has 5 billion in reserves and is debt free with a new UNIX foundation for their OS. Do I think the AE programmers are good...yes I do but I don't think they're as good as the ex Discreet team that put Motion together. Adobe had COSA's code to work with. Motion was created from scratch and not an aquisition.

[iGav]

i agree that motion will probably reduce cost, but i don't think that it will reduce the need for talented artists, right igav? ;)

I hope not!! hahahahahahahahaha! :p

[TNeile]

I have been anxiously awaiting Motion. Now, I'm not sure whether my machine will run it. I've got a dual-gig Quicksilver with 1GB RAM running 10.3.4 and a GeForce 4 MX card with 64MB VRAM. Will that work? Will gladly update to 10.3.5 since it seems to be, from all indications, a pretty painless update.

[nuckinfutz]

I have been anxiously awaiting Motion. Now, I'm not sure whether my machine will run it. I've got a dual-gig Quicksilver with 1GB RAM running 10.3.4 and a GeForce 4 MX card with 64MB VRAM. Will that work? Will gladly update to 10.3.5 since it seems to be, from all indications, a pretty painless update.


You'll need to upgrade your graphics card. These are the current supported cards

One of the following graphics cards:
— ATI Radeon 9800 XT
— ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
— ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
— ATI Radeon 9600 XT
— ATI Radeon 9600 Pro
— ATI Mobility Radeon 9700
— ATI Mobility Radeon 9600
— nVidia GeForce Go5200
— nVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra

[huevohead]

I agree this is awesome news that Motion finally came out and the announcment of the Production Suite makes the release that much sweeter.

What sucks for me is that my very first Mac is a Dual 2.5 thats delayed till Septemeber 3rd. I ordered final cut pro when I placed my order on the 15th of July and not thinking anything of it, I clicked the option to send items as they become available. I get Final Cut Pro on the 22nd of July and it has been sitting in my room waiting for my Computer which is still almost 1 month off from coming. Unfortuneatly since I recieved FCP on the 22nd and the Production Suite was announced on the 10 of August (18 days after i received FCP) I am screwed. I know getting Motion for 200 dollars is still a good deal, but it really rubs me the wrong way to know that it didnt really matter when I recieved FCP since I cant use it until my G5 gets here, and know If I had just checked the option to wait untill all parts are ready I could have just traded the Production Suite for the same price FCP.
Looks like I will have to try to sell FCP brand new somewhere and hope that I can make enough to make the difference of the production suite less than $200.
Oh well

[CmdrLaForge]

I agree this is awesome news that Motion finally came out and the announcment of the Production Suite makes the release that much sweeter.

What sucks for me is that my very first Mac is a Dual 2.5 thats delayed till Septemeber 3rd. I ordered final cut pro when I placed my order on the 15th of July and not thinking anything of it, I clicked the option to send items as they become available. I get Final Cut Pro on the 22nd of July and it has been sitting in my room waiting for my Computer which is still almost 1 month off from coming. Unfortuneatly since I recieved FCP on the 22nd and the Production Suite was announced on the 10 of August (18 days after i received FCP) I am screwed. I know getting Motion for 200 dollars is still a good deal, but it really rubs me the wrong way to know that it didnt really matter when I recieved FCP since I cant use it until my G5 gets here, and know If I had just checked the option to wait untill all parts are ready I could have just traded the Production Suite for the same price FCP.
Looks like I will have to try to sell FCP brand new somewhere and hope that I can make enough to make the difference of the production suite less than $200.
Oh well


Call Apple. If you just bought a 2.5 PowerMac they should do something for you and maybe they will.

[huevohead]

Yeah, I tried calling Apple as soon as I saw the Production Suite thinking they would be easy going about just doing a clean swap, but the Apple Representative said since i have had FCP for more than 14 days it was too late and "have a nice day".
I'm was hoping the E-mail I sent them would get further up the chain and get my situation some more attention, but it has now been about 72 hours and I have not yet recieved a reply.

[CmdrLaForge]

Yeah, I tried calling Apple as soon as I saw the Production Suite thinking they would be easy going about just doing a clean swap, but the Apple Representative said since i have had FCP for more than 14 days it was too late and "have a nice day".
I'm was hoping the E-mail I sent them would get further up the chain and get my situation some more attention, but it has now been about 72 hours and I have not yet recieved a reply.

Really sorry to hear that. I hoped Apple would have here a more customer friendly approach.

[ART5000]

Just installed Motion!
first impressions:

stable, fast!, beautiful interface, easy to use, great pre-sets

this app is great for trailer bumbers, film bumbers, DVD intro pages etc.

The only thing I would of loved was for it to have more export options.
But all in all it's a great app for the price.

I'm creating some futuristic **** that's kickin some butt

:D

[CmdrLaForge]

Just installed Motion!
first impressions:

stable, fast!, beautiful interface, easy to use, great pre-sets

this app is great for trailer bumbers, film bumbers, DVD intro pages etc.

The only thing I would of loved was for it to have more export options.
But all in all it's a great app for the price.

I'm creating some futuristic **** that's kickin some butt

:D

Sounds good, what is your machine ? Maybe you can give more feedback ?

Thanks

[NickFalk]

You'll be able to choke Motion as well... same way as After Effects does if you don't pre-comp stuff and have ridiculous numbers of layers all doing their thing. ;)
Hardly. The only review I've read so far was run on a dual G4. With the programs maximum of 256 layers it was still realtime...

That's the revolution!

[iGav]

Hardly. The only review I've read so far was run on a dual G4. With the programs maximum of 256 layers it was still realtime...

That's the revolution!

It depends what those layers contain though.

Motion still requires the footage to be offloaded into RAM before you even get anywhere near realtime, much the same way as you would in After Effects. The difference is then how Motion handles the ability to add a filter to a clip, this is where it trumps After Effects. Motion maintains the clip in RAM, After Effects doesn't.

It'll still choke if you get too demanding of it though.

It's ability to offload effects onto the GPU is the only revolution. Its lack of features is a bigger issue for pro-motion designers.