Next-Generation iPhone Set to Carry 5-Megapixel Camera?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/23/next-generation-iphone-set-to-carry-5-megapixel-camera/)

DigiTimes reports (http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20091223PD225.html) that OmniVision Technologies has secured orders from Apple for 5-megapixel camera sensors destined for the next-generation iPhone. Sources report that the OmniVision is expected to supply Apple with 40-45 million sensors in 2010 for the new iPhone, reportedly set to launch in the second half of the year.OmniVision Technologies is expected to see CMOS image sensor (CIS) orders for Apple's iPhone devices grow to 40-45 million units in 2010 from 20-21 million estimated this year, according to industry sources. The sources said OmniVision has secured 5-megapixel CIS orders for the next-generation iPhone model, which will hit shelves sometime during the second half of 2010.DigiTimes noted (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/03/apple-ordering-3-2-and-5-megapixel-camera-sensors-for-iphone-and-future-product/) in April that OmniVision had won a contract to supply Apple with 3.2-megapixel camera sensors for what turned out to be the iPhone 3GS. That report also claimed, however, that Apple had secured 5-megapixel camera sensors at the time for an unreleased product. No signs of those 5-megapixel sensors have surfaced, although speculation obviously centered around Apple's much-rumored tablet at the time.

Just days before Apple's September media event where it introduced new iPods (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/09/apple-updates-entire-ipod-family-bringing-capacity-and-performance-bumps-to-ipod-touch-and-video-camera-to-ipod-nano/), DigiTimes also claimed (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/27/ipod-touch-nano-and-classic-to-receive-3-2-megapixel-cameras-at-september-media-event/) that OmniVision would be supplying 3.2-megapixel cameras for the iPod touch, iPod nano, and iPod classic. All three claims turned out to be incorrect, however, as Apple apparently scrapped (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/11/apple-still-planning-camera-in-ipod-touch/) plans for including a camera in the iPod touch after the thinness of the device caused difficulties with its inclusion, the iPod nano received only a 0.3-megapixel camera, and the iPod classic failed to receive a camera at all.

Article Link: Next-Generation iPhone Set to Carry 5-Megapixel Camera? (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/23/next-generation-iphone-set-to-carry-5-megapixel-camera/)

[derek1984]

I would just like a flash.

[MacDaddy901]

Hmm double the order? Front facing camera?

[ThatsMeRight]

I've already got a feeling that the new iPhone is going to be so much better than the the upgrade from 3G to the 3Gs. Just from the few rumors we've already heard. And not to forget, they double the order: or they expect more costumers or there is also going to be a front facing camera.

[sammich]

Hmm double the order? Front facing camera?

Ha! I like your thinking!

[Grimace]

What is the point of a 5MP camera? Cramming more pixels onto a camera-phone sized sensor means that the images (unless in broad daylight) will be very noisy (grainy.) Do people really want to print 11x14 images of their iPhone pictures??

[waterkamp]

hope it comes with flash...

[TalkAboutApple]

What's the point of more megapixels? More "detail" of a blur? The lens is smaller than the eraser on a pencil.

[ThatsMeRight]

What is the point of a 5MP camera? Cramming more pixels onto a camera-phone sized sensor means that the images (unless in broad daylight) will be very noisy (grainy.) Do people really want to print 11x14 images of their iPhone pictures??There are good lenses, even for phones and I'm sure they will do fine. I've seen a lot of 3.2 megapixel cameras but the 3.2 megapixel camera on the iPhone is one of the best I've seen. I'm sure Apple will do fine with the new camera.

What I would like to see is a shutter for the camera :')

[lilskaterpunk]

Front and rear camera with flash, count me in! ;) 5MP upgrade... yes its an decent upgrade but common Apple!

[acurafan]

i don't give a rat's hiney, when is the next generation battery coming that last more then 5-minutes??? :confused: /rant

[LoganT]

i don't give a rat's hiney, when is the next generation battery coming that last more then 5-minutes??? :confused: /rant

I think you have a defected phone if you are only getting 5 minutes.

[ipoppy]

hope it comes with flash...

Get yourself a proper camera then. Have you forgot about issue with battery on iPhone? Do you think that they will improve it as much? I don't

Hmm double the order? Front facing camera?

What would you need 5MP on front too? It will happened but there is no need for 5MP.

[MacDaddy901]

I've really don't understand why so many people want a flash. The pictures taken with camera flashes always look terrible.

[Grimace]

More pixels does not equal better quality. Less light is read by each pixel and the sensitivity has to be jacked up to compensate (ie. grainier images.)

3.2MP = 2048 x 1536, the resolution of the iPhone 3GS.
5.0MP = 2592 x 1944, the rumored res of the iPhone XG

Not a big deal for printing larger images - and 3.2 was definitely big enough for most monitors.

[ghostwriter]

What is the point of a 5MP camera? Cramming more pixels onto a camera-phone sized sensor means that the images (unless in broad daylight) will be very noisy (grainy.) Do people really want to print 11x14 images of their iPhone pictures??

The point is to remain competitive in the smartphone market. Simple as that.

[Grimace]

The point is to remain competitive in the smartphone market. Simple as that.

Yeah, you're right. I was just so hopeful that since the MP race/myth in point-and-shoot camera is starting to die down because people are getting crappy images, that we might avoid the same silly arms race with cell phone camera sensors too.

[specify]

I've really don't understand why so many people want a flash. The pictures taken with camera flashes always look terrible.

night pictures

[carmenodie]

Man tech is expensive and requires so many skill sets to deliver to the public. I went to Omnivision's web sight and saw some of their cameras and dude...
You have to have the best people around to get stuff out on the market. Technical? That is an understatement. So when I here people say they want this and that. I say it is very hard to go from idea to delivered product.

[Small White Car]

What is the point of a 5MP camera? Cramming more pixels onto a camera-phone sized sensor means that the images (unless in broad daylight) will be very noisy (grainy.)

What's the point of more megapixels? More "detail" of a blur? The lens is smaller than the eraser on a pencil.

Gee, it's too bad no one has invented the 'larger lens' yet. That's why every camera in the world uses the same lens as the iPhone.

Maybe if we're lucky Apple will discover this elusive invention before the next phone comes out!

[dannyboi83]

5MP is overkill for phones, the sensors are so small there just isn't any point. Yeah camera phones are great for quick snaps but if you want to print an image out for use at home the quality will be awful. I say just keep the 3.2MP its more than enought, but a flash would be useful for night time.

[spydr]

I would so prefer them double the hardware speed and keep existing software. I still think their software is too much for the hardware i.e. they could make the iPhone a lot more 'snappier'

[RogueWarrior65]

Who gives a rusty eff about high-res cameras in a phone?!? The damn things have lousy optics to begin with and they're always full of dust from sitting in your pocket all the time. You want to impress me? Put an OLED display on it. You want to really impress me? Make the camera swivel and implement video chat.

[DipDog3]

I don't think the small camera of the iPhone really makes the 5MP worth it.

I think 3 is overkill as it is.

[GeekOFComedy]

I'm tired of iVidCam for 3G this 3G(s.s) Better have HD 720p Recording or if apple can have 1080p recording!

[alent1234]

More pixels does not equal better quality. Less light is read by each pixel and the sensitivity has to be jacked up to compensate (ie. grainier images.)

3.2MP = 2048 x 1536, the resolution of the iPhone 3GS.
5.0MP = 2592 x 1944, the rumored res of the iPhone XG

Not a big deal for printing larger images - and 3.2 was definitely big enough for most monitors.

it's like the GHz race between AMD and Intel 10 years ago. and i bet the current cameras won't be made anymore since 1 year in tech is an eternity

[dannyboi83]

I'm tired of iVidCam for 3G this 3G(s.s) Better have HD 720p Recording or if apple can have 1080p recording!

Are you joking??? HD Recording on the phone, your hardly going to get the full effect of HD from a phone, larger number of pixels are no good if they're all crammed in

[1Zach1]

I'm hoping they throw in a Micro-4/3rds sensor and lens mount. :D

[carlgo]

The network is the problem. Nothing else matters until that is dealt with. Video chat? Where on earth can you do that, in an AT&T laboratory or in 2% of the country?

Camera photos suck so badly compared to even the worst cheap little actual camera that they should only be used if you see Tiger Woods in a supermarket shopping with Madonna naked and you can sell the photo to TMZ and buy a used Ferrari. And a decent camera.

[suss2it]

The network is the problem. Nothing else matters until that is dealt with. Video chat? Where on earth can you do that, in an AT&T laboratory or in 2% of the country?

Camera photos suck so badly compared to even the worst cheap little actual camera that they should only be used if you see Tiger Woods in a supermarket shopping with Madonna naked and you can sell the photo to TMZ and buy a used Ferrari. And a decent camera.

People outside of the US have iPhones that aren't apparently crippled by their network.

I'm not much into photography so the current camera for me is fine, all they need is flash for nighttime pictures and a front camera for video chat.

[GeekOFComedy]

Are you joking??? HD Recording on the phone, your hardly going to get the full effect of HD from a phone, larger number of pixels are no good if they're all crammed in

I don't mind VGA Quality at native size once it's a 1280x720 resolution bro! Just saves people cropping videos out and making them look like ***** and sure didn't some say the 3Gs chip was capable of HD somewhere

[cmaier]

I'd rather they keep the existing 3.2 in back and add a VGA front-facing camera.

[pmz]

The network is the problem. Nothing else matters until that is dealt with. Video chat? Where on earth can you do that, in an AT&T laboratory or in 2% of the country?

Camera photos suck so badly compared to even the worst cheap little actual camera that they should only be used if you see Tiger Woods in a supermarket shopping with Madonna naked and you can sell the photo to TMZ and buy a used Ferrari. And a decent camera.

This is reality. Video chat is not happening.

Video chat on a phone is not only dumb, but its not even possible. There is no network to support it. We all know that AT&T has no intention of improving their 3G network, instead they'd rather encourage low-bandwidth consumption. Video chat does not fit in that world.

As far as the camera is concerned, I'm certain we're going to see further improvements beyond the additional 2 megapixels. Since it goes without saying that stuffing in 2 more megapixels would not be an improvement, I think we can trust Apple to realize that, and make other adjustments that are appropriate to mid-2010.

[mattster16]

night pictures

Those crappy LED flashes have a range of like 3 feet and make everything look like crap. How is that useful at all for night pictures?

The only thing those things are good for are for using them as a flashlight..

[mattster16]

Who gives a rusty eff about high-res cameras in a phone?!? The damn things have lousy optics to begin with and they're always full of dust from sitting in your pocket all the time. You want to impress me? Put an OLED display on it. You want to really impress me? Make the camera swivel and implement video chat.

You don't want an OLED display. They actually tend to use more battery than LCDs backlit with LEDs.

That and the colors degrade over time, particularly blues.

[Doctor Q]

Video chat on a phone is not only dumb, but its not even possible. There is no network to support it. We all know that AT&T has no intention of improving their 3G network, instead they'd rather encourage low-bandwidth consumption. Video chat does not fit in that world.Apple designs first for the U.S., but sells in plenty of other countries. Is the situation more conducive to videochatting elsewhere?

[cmaier]

Apple designs first for the U.S., but sells in plenty of other countries. Is the situation more conducive to videochatting elsewhere?

Apple has also has a history of allowing wi-fi only features.

[doctoree]

What I want in the next iPhone: 720p
What I don't want in the next iPhone: Rolling Shutter

Thanks

[heyboo]

What is the point of a 5MP camera? Cramming more pixels onto a camera-phone sized sensor means that the images (unless in broad daylight) will be very noisy (grainy.) Do people really want to print 11x14 images of their iPhone pictures??

Agree. The current iPhone takes a lot better pictures than any 5MP phone camera I've seen.

[davidee]

I'm hoping they throw in a Micro-4/3rds sensor and lens mount. :D

agreed, I think my 70-200 2.8 would look sexy with an iPhone hanging off of it.

On topic link -> http://cow.mooh.org/2009/12/phone-o-scope-attaching-slr-lenses-to.html

I cannot however bring myself to do that to a lens other than the kit one that sits here on the desk unused...
:D

[heisetax]

I was & still am hoping fora built-in camera in the iPod Touch. Maybe then I would think of an iPod Touch as a good purchase. So far I have been very unimpressed with my 64GB iPod Touch. I've been looking for an iTunes replacement for my iPods. Now with the iTunes app store for my iPod Touch I see that nome is available unless I disable certain parts of the iPod Touch. Wait until you loose programs & data from your iPod Touch/iPhone because of the monopoly powers & control that Apple has over it. Backups for backups for the iPod Touch/iPhones appears to be not enough. No wonder we hear terms like jailbreaking by loyal Apple & Mac Users.

The iPod Touch needs to be bigger & thicker to allow some of the needed additions to it will have a place to reside. Small & pretty may look better but does not operate as well or better. An pixel camera would be better than a 0 pixels camera. One can argue how many pixels is best, but 0 has to be the worst or very close to it. An iPhone is out for many people as it requires a new data/cell plan for each.

My Canon digital SLR camera is only 8 mp but I bet that it will give you better shots than these new 15+ mp point & shot camera do. Just compare the size of the lenses on these different camera. The cell phone camera besides being the smallest also probably has the most dirt on its lens. Because sometimes ony a small portion of the photo is wanted cropping must be done Then with a smaller photo to start with it gets enlarged. Having more mp helps make this possible. But with the small physical size of the camera lens in the iPhone it remains to be seen where more mp helps & when it just hurts.

[sebimeyer]

The network is the problem. Nothing else matters until that is dealt with. Video chat? Where on earth can you do that, in an AT&T laboratory or in 2% of the country?

"the country" apparently refers to the United States.

Would work just fine where I am. And people here buy iPhones.

[mrpeepers]

want to know how to sound like a n00b to a photographer? brag about megapixels. they mean nothing at the range they're currently at. NOTHING. put in better optics, better auto-focus, better glass (lens). then you're talking.

[iShak]

not impressed whatsoever, you can put a 20MP camera on iPhone and it would still not make the whole iphone experience any better!

I would rather Apple took care of that low-res screen, bad battery life and you know .. just make the 'phone' better not the camera!

I can't understand this camera on the phone thing anyway .. 3MP is more than enough for a camera phone, if you are wishing to take any bigger pictures on your phone then you are probably doing that for publishing/printing in which case you are barking up a very very wrong tree to begin with. Get a proper camera.

[bacaramac]

If Apple does manage to put a flash on the next gen iPhone, I would be happy. There are times where I am out and take pictures of the kids. Sometimes more just for MMS and/or Emailing of a photo and not as a main camera. I think Apple could do something with making it look integrated around the camera and not a separate white circle.

As for the 5 megapixel camera, I think it is just to say it is there, but I see no need for it as 3.2 works just fine for what I use the pictures for. If I need 12 I will use my Canon camera for those pictures.

[sushi]

I would just like a flash.
Agree. I would prefer flash over more pixels if there was a choice.

[cmaier]

Agree. I would prefer flash over more pixels if there was a choice.

I think both flash and more pixels are a bad idea. No way to make a flash that doesn't suck given the poor quality of the optics/sensor.

[sushi]

I think both flash and more pixels are a bad idea. No way to make a flash that doesn't suck given the poor quality of the optics/sensor.
Huh?

What are you trying to say?

[MacApple21]

I'm tired of iVidCam for 3G this 3G(s.s) Better have HD 720p Recording or if apple can have 1080p recording!
Not to be rude, but have you completely lost your mind :p
1080P video recording is something that a lot of DSLR cameras are only beginning to offer or even lacks. It's definitely not something we're going to see any time soon. Not to mention the memory space 1080p video takes up.
Even though it would be nice to have a HD video recording DSLR camera compressed into an iPhone, it is and for long will be an utopian dream.
If you really need these features, you should by a DSLR, although it would be nice to have in your pocket ;)

[ChrisA]

What is the point of a 5MP camera? Cramming more pixels onto a camera-phone sized sensor means that the images (unless in broad daylight) will be very noisy (grainy.) Do people really want to print 11x14 images of their iPhone pictures??

What is the point? Simple - giving an ignorant consumer what he thinks he wants. Ask almost anyone not knowledgeable about the technical aspects of cameras the they will tell you "more MPs are better"

[acurafan]

I think you have a defected phone if you are only getting 5 minutes.
LOL. i was being sarcastic - but the battery life on the iphone is really a bummer for me and wished apple, of all changes, make this a priority over all else.

[ajkst1]

Personally, with even decent light, the iPhone's current camera is good. The addition of the auto-focus in the 3GS makes it the best camera phone I've seen. I don't use my digital camera any more because the iPhone takes pictures that are just as "viewable". I'm not trying to print 11"x14" photos or view these on a giant screen.

Like all technology, temper your expectations and understand the limitations of it. I'd love to see a flash, and I think it would help in taking low light or night pictures, but is there room in the case and will Steve want another hole in the case? As ridiculous as it sounds, Steve has the final say and he has a tendency to not like anything "extra" on the hardware.

[mags631]

Those crappy LED flashes have a range of like 3 feet and make everything look like crap. How is that useful at all for night pictures?

The only thing those things are good for are for using them as a flashlight..

Don't muddle the conversation with something like facts.

[kallisti]

What is the point? Simple - giving an ignorant consumer what he thinks he wants. Ask almost anyone not knowledgeable about the technical aspects of cameras the they will tell you "more MPs are better"

An example of Apple thinking it knows better than it's customers. In this case Apple is absolutely right. If you are going to bother putting a camera on a phone, it should produce the best images possible within the contraints of the device. With current sensor technology, this means a 3.2 MP camera. Customers don't always know what is best for them and Apple is actually doing them a favor here. I hope it continues. The last thing I want is *worse* images because Apple felt the need to make the specs look good or "competitive." Or leaving out useful device features to make room for an underpowered flash.

EDIT:
Another site listed this as the potential new photo sensor: OV5650 (http://www.ovt.com/products/detail.php?id=110). Supposedly, improved sensor technology retains image quality despite the increase in pixel density. Is capable of shooting 1080p @ 30fps as well (not sure what the actual quality would be with a phone lens though).

[tzeshan]

There are situations a small camera with more pixels is better. For example, if you shot a pretty woman at a distance, you can zoom in to take a better look. Another example is taking picture of a group of people. Individual face may be too small on the picture. 5 MP allows you to zoom in and the face will still be clear.

[tzeshan]

Hmm double the order? Front facing camera?

It means Verizon will be selling iPhone next year?

[Michael73]

I'm down with a flash but how about including an optical zoom? I bought the $0.99 app that has a digital zoom but it isn't that good.

[Rot'nApple]

What's really fascinating is how all the hatred of AT&T and their crappy service, dropped calls, poor voice quality, lost signals, few bars, lost voice mails or whatever complaints can be so quickly tossed aside by a simple story as "iPhone to have 5 Mega Pixel Camera!"

Then everybody goes into their, pro or con viewpoints of a 5 MP Camera on the iPhone or need for a flash or a front facing camera. For what? So when you get it, you go back to saying I hate AT&T and their crappy service for absolutely ruining the iPhone experience?

Out of all the replies I have read from the various Rumor/News sites that posted the 5 MP Camera for the iPhone rumor, did I come across one saying...

"Of all the things I wish the iPhone had regarding internals and specs, I wish Apple would put a miniature AT&T MicroCell like contracption to increase AT&T signal strength, since AT&T is apparently not doing enough, fast enough to improve the network, seeing that AT&T is the sole carrier for the iPhone for now and then I wouldn't have to watch on SNL a "news" skit about the iPhone challenge of being a phone!

So, we'll get our 5MP iPhone camera and then it's back to AT&T sucks, I wish the iPhone was on Verizon! :D

HO! HO!, HO! :)

[PaulSorensen]

What is the point of a 5MP camera? Cramming more pixels onto a camera-phone sized sensor means that the images (unless in broad daylight) will be very noisy (grainy.) Do people really want to print 11x14 images of their iPhone pictures??

Who said that the sensor isn't physically larger?

[Dreamer2go]

only thing I want for the new iphone is a REVOLUTIONARY battery....

seriously.
a 3.2 or 5MP camera is nice....
but the biggest complaint I have with the iphone is the battery.....

[alexhasfun28]

Hmm double the order? Front facing camera?

Um, they're also talking about the rumored tablet, you know?
But other than that, don't be expecting apple to be realeasing a front-facing camera anytime soon. Maybe next, next summer. But not now..

[j-traxx]

i've been thinking that video chat could very well become a possibility. apple has been improving the bandwidth footprint of ichat while increasing its image size. i think that by software they could implement that into the iphone so that it would be a less obscene demand on the network carrier for video chat. aside from cellular video chat the possibility of wifi video chatting is pretty much here. i could see this implemented in the corporate board meetings and such. its not really that big of a deal to pull off. i think that maybe apple is improving the phone so exponentially in its next revision that it may be able to walk away from exclusivity without breach of contract because of "insufficient services" by the network carrier. who knows.

[Michael CM1]

Who gives a rusty eff about high-res cameras in a phone?!? The damn things have lousy optics to begin with and they're always full of dust from sitting in your pocket all the time. You want to impress me? Put an OLED display on it. You want to really impress me? Make the camera swivel and implement video chat.

No kidding. While I'm not saying "make the camera suck," it's never going to be as good as a dedicated camera device. I just want Apple to work on the picture quality more than how many megapixels the camera is. But this is hardly a dealbreaker for most sane people. If you want to take a picture, buy a camera.

[cmaier]

Huh?

What are you trying to say?

Given that the camera has a crappy lens and a high noise sensor, all a flash will do is give horribly distorted and useless pictures at night.

[GeekOFComedy]

Not to be rude, but have you completely lost your mind :p
1080P video recording is something that a lot of DSLR cameras are only beginning to offer or even lacks. It's definitely not something we're going to see any time soon. Not to mention the memory space 1080p video takes up.
Even though it would be nice to have a HD video recording DSLR camera compressed into an iPhone, it is and for long will be an utopian dream.
If you really need these features, you should by a DSLR, although it would be nice to have in your pocket ;)

Not to be rude, but I was just thinking different :p

All I'm saying is iPhone 2G to 3G was big because of 3G and Apps. 3G to 3Gs was big because of Video, 3.0 and being faster. 3Gs to what ever Apple needs to pull something big out of the bag rather than 1.8MPS more. They would deff need at least 720p Recording and Playback.... Oooh new iPhone name:

iPhone HD

[extraextra]

Everyone complains about wanting more features, and then everyone complains about the battery life! Of course it's going to die in 5 minutes if you're running AIM, games, the camera, iPod, phone, locations services, Safari, 3G, etc all at the same time! Unless you want a phone the size of a brick, there's no way a battery is going to last that long doing everything you want it to. I imagine that HD recording and playback will kill the battery in about 1hr.

[Benji222]

Everyone complains about wanting more features, and then everyone complains about the battery life! Of course it's going to die in 5 minutes if you're running AIM, games, the camera, iPod, phone, locations services, Safari, 3G, etc all at the same time! Unless you want a phone the size of a brick, there's no way a battery is going to last that long doing everything you want it to. I imagine that HD recording and playback will kill the battery in about 1hr.
Very true,
you can make it last a lot longer by changing some simple settings and stopping some services after your done.

[Ubuntu]

What is the point of a 5MP camera? Cramming more pixels onto a camera-phone sized sensor means that the images (unless in broad daylight) will be very noisy (grainy.) Do people really want to print 11x14 images of their iPhone pictures??

Please be reminded that it is more of a marketing gimmick. I know people who refuse to buy an iPhone because the camera is only 2mp (regardless of its general quality, which imo is pretty good for the specs).

That said, the iPhone having a 2mp camera is just not very good for business.

[healeydave]

I've been having this MegaPixel argument for ages with uninformed idiots and its refreshing to read a thread where everyone pretty much agree's.

However its amazing how many suckers will fall for the marketing hype of companies like Sony Ericsson stuffing 12Mp camera in their latest phone.

I wish I could force everyone to see this 45 second clip cut from a UK TV show where they projected a 2.2Meg picture onto a 50 foot cinema screen to give them a bit of an embarressing reality check :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6IeBFOovck

[AidenShaw]

I've been having this MegaPixel argument for ages with uninformed idiots and its refreshing to read a thread where everyone pretty much agree's.

Right - if Blu-ray is just under 2.1 Mpixel, why does a phone with a plastic lens and tiny sensor need much more than that?

[daxomni]

I've seen a lot of 3.2 megapixel cameras but the 3.2 megapixel camera on the iPhone is one of the best I've seen.
Then you must not have seen a lot of 3mp cameras.

I would so prefer them double the hardware speed and keep existing software.
Perhaps you can tell me what Apple just implemented in the last revision?

There are situations a small camera with more pixels is better. For example, if you shot a pretty woman at a distance, you can zoom in to take a better look.
Yeah, lets make the iPhone more appealing to socially and photographically challenged stalkers.

Right - if Blu-ray is just under 2.1 Mpixel, why does a phone with a plastic lens and tiny sensor need much more than that?
And even lowly Blu-ray resolution is completely wasted on a display of less than 40 inches because you can't tell the difference at sizes smaller than that anyway. ;)

[powers74]

Camera photos suck so badly compared to even the worst cheap little actual camera that they should only be used if you see Tiger Woods in a supermarket shopping with Madonna naked and you can sell the photo to TMZ and buy a used Ferrari. And a decent camera.

:D brilliant.

Don't muddle the conversation with something like facts.

:D brilliant.

[ddeister]

Even if picture quality is worse due to smaller sensors, it's in apple's interest to have you take larger pics that require more disk space. That way you run out faster and think about upgrading your phone sooner.

[flopticalcube]

And even lowly Blu-ray resolution is completely wasted on a display of less than 40 inches because you can't tell the difference at sizes smaller than that anyway. ;)
That depends on how close you are sitting from the display. Even a 24" display is noticeable if you are onlly a few feet away.

Personally, I would like to see a better lens + optical zoom rather than greater resolution. If it means I have to carry a camera less often, then great.

[Jimmy James]

What is the point of a 5MP camera? Cramming more pixels onto a camera-phone sized sensor means that the images (unless in broad daylight) will be very noisy (grainy.) Do people really want to print 11x14 images of their iPhone pictures??

QFT. The iPhone has the ideal camera setup now. All it needs is a flash.

[MorphingDragon]

I'd much rather have a good quality Carl Zeiss Lens, Quartz based calibration system and optical zoom than 5MP.

[daxomni]

That depends on how close you are sitting from the display. Even a 24" display is noticeable if you are onlly a few feet away. Personally, I would like to see a better lens + optical zoom rather than greater resolution. If it means I have to carry a camera less often, then great.
I think we're on the same page here. I'm of the mind that the iPhone doesn't need any additional resolution nearly as much as it needs a much better sensor and lens. However, I'm also of the mind that when it comes to resolution of commercial content there is an additional benefit all the way up to the resolution a glass mirror from the 1950's provides. I have no idea what that resolution would be in digital terms, but it's several orders of magnitude higher than even 1080p Blu-ray could ever provide.

[AidenShaw]

And even lowly Blu-ray resolution is completely wasted on a display of less than 40 inches because you can't tell the difference at sizes smaller than that anyway. ;)

The 40" urban legend about 1080p is overly simplistic.

The issue is "apparent size" of the screen, which is a function of the actual screen diagonal and the viewer's distance from the screen. If you're 2 feet from a 20" screen, you can definitely tell the difference. If you're 15 feet from a 42" screen, you probably can't. (My TV is set up so that the head position on the sofa is about 9' from a 52" screen, so I'm in the "can tell" group.)

[The Phazer]

I'm terrified that some of the people who claim the 3GS has the best 3.2 megapixel camera they've ever seen may have driving licenses.

And I say that as a pedestrian, wearing a big bright obvious yellow jumper.

It has terrible (and in some circumstances genuinely bizarre) image processing, a ****** lens, bad low light performance, no flash, massive chromatic aberrations and poor colour reproduction. Really. It is really not a very good camera at all. It's not even a very good cellphone camera (the Pre's poops on it from a significant height, and that's by no means wonderful itself).

A 5mp sensor would be good news - not enough to be causing significant noise issues despite some of the claims here, but enough to give good prints with a bit of a safety net for cropping and zooming as required. Any more in a future revision would be stupid, but 5mp is about exactly right.

But a better lens, or a flash, or image processing that didn't seem to be handled by getting a large bunch of monkeys in Apple headquarters to punch out the hexadecimal code for each pixel at random in a typewriter would all be good improvements too.

Phazer

[synth3tik]

megapixels don't mean nuffin. Chances are it will still be a very low quality camera like the current.

[aegisdesign]

5mp eh? Welcome to 2007 Apple.

[MorphingDragon]

5mp eh? Welcome to 2007 Apple.

Welcome to the year 2000 aegisdesign.

The MP race is about as useless as the now old-fashioned MHz race.

[thejadedmonkey]

Welcome to the year 2000 aegisdesign.

The MP race is about as useless as the now old-fashioned MHz race.

Yeah, but it's a bigger number. And consumers LOVE bigger numbers and their e-penis's. Plus, a 5mp camera will fill up an 8gb phone faster, requiring an upsell to the 16 or 32gb iPhone. Money money money!

[john2263]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2718/4145622496_4cbd0500bd.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3009/2623383787_01120002e9.jpg

Have a guess which photo was taken with a 5MP Nokia N95 and which was taken with a 3.2MP iPhone 3GS?

[MorphingDragon]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2718/4145622496_4cbd0500bd.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3009/2623383787_01120002e9.jpg

Have a guess which photo was taken with a 5MP Nokia N95 and which was taken with a 3.2MP iPhone 3GS?

Hard to tell, because you resized them so a lot of artifact and noise is reduced.

I'm going to take a stab and say that the bottom one is the N97.

[AidenShaw]

Hard to tell, because you resized them so a lot of artifact and noise is reduced.

Right on. Two 200 Kpixel images, and we're expected to figure out which original was 5 Mpx and which was 3.2 Mpx.

LOL

[ArrowSmith]

What's the point? It's all about the size of the lens. These camera-phones will never replace a DigiCam, much less a DSLR.

[cmaier]

What's the point? It's all about the size of the lens. These camera-phones will never replace a DigiCam, much less a DSLR.

But unlike your DSLR, your phone is always in your pocket, so it's nice for it to have the best camera that can be managed. Of course better optics would be more useful than more megapixels.

[flopticalcube]

But unlike your DSLR, your phone is always in your pocket, so it's nice for it to have the best camera that can be managed. Of course better optics would be more useful than more megapixels.
I agree. I was at Busch Gardens today and left my camera in the car. I had a few excellent photo ops that I missed because my cell had no camera.

[john2263]

Hard to tell, because you resized them so a lot of artefact and noise is reduced.

Good Point

here are both images at 3MP.

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1235/image1yw.jpg

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/178/image2nh.jpg

My point I'm trying to make here is that more mega pixels does not equal better quality photos is also a lie.

You can moan and grizzle all you want about how the iPhone camera is the best, but at the end of the day its not. Personally, I think that the N95 has a great camera, complete with flash and auto focus. The obvious downside to this? The size. The N95 is a fairly large and bulky phone.

However, it was released in 2007 and technology has progressed in that time (The N97 is 3mm thinner then the N95).

What you should be saying is how the iPhone camera is good for its size. At the moment, Apple has such a small camera sensor only for its looks. Is it prepared to sacrifice them for a better camera? Would you be prepared to have a phone 1-2mm thicker with a slightly better camera (with flash)?

[greygray]

I don't understand the whining. Be happy there's a camera upgrade! And then people complain that other phones have 8-12 megapixel cameras while the iPhone has only 3.2 megapixels. :rolleyes:

[MorphingDragon]

I don't understand the whining. Be happy there's a camera upgrade! And then people complain that other phones have 8-12 megapixel cameras while the iPhone has only 3.2 megapixels. :rolleyes:

Because adding a higher MPX count isnt actually an improvement.

[Sweetfeld28]

Its about time, thats all i have to say.

[cmaier]

Its about time, thats all i have to say.

You have a pressing need for higher-noise pictures that take up more file space?

[greygray]

Because adding a higher MPX count isnt actually an improvement.

Different people have different needs. How about having a 1 megapixel camera on the iPhone? There is a clear difference in picture quality, apart from the size the photos are able to be printed.

[MorphingDragon]

Different people have different needs. How about having a 1 megapixel camera on the iPhone? There is a clear difference in picture quality, apart from the size the photos are able to be printed.

No QUALITY comes form the Lens and the Sensor. Detail comes form the MPX count. If you increase the Mpx count but dont put in a better sensor a lot of it is wasted space and noise.

If I had a choice between a quartz sensor and a Carl lens at 1MpX or 5MpX with a low brow sensor I'd pick the 1MpX

[cjmillsnun]

My point I'm trying to make here is that more mega pixels does not equal better quality photos is also a lie.


IIRC the N95 has Carl Zeiss optics. I can assure you that is what the iPhone is missing. It's not got good enough optics to fully take advantage of the ccd it already has.

[The Phazer]

What you should be saying is how the iPhone camera is good for its size.

But I'd be lying.

The lens and sensor assembly in an N95 is no bigger than that in a 3GS incidentally.

Phazer

[aegisdesign]

Welcome to the year 2000 aegisdesign.

The MP race is about as useless as the now old-fashioned MHz race.

To a point yes but there's some cracking 5mp camera phones out there and there has been for years, just not from Apple. And yes, they're in phones thinner than the iPhone and come with Flash and better optics, not just more mp.

What's the point? It's all about the size of the lens. These camera-phones will never replace a DigiCam, much less a DSLR.

They already are and have been for years. Been to a wedding lately? Party? How many people are lugging a camera around or just snapping on their phone? For some people camera phones have already replaced cameras, particularly people who NEVER print their photos and just stick them on Facebook.

For other people, they're a perfect supplemental camera to their higher end gear. I'm ditching my Canon EOS gear next year for a Lumix GF1 as I hate looking like a pro at an event. Similarly, there's times when having a camera phone handy is less intrusive. Why not have a passable camera in your phone?

All this defending the iPhone's ****** camera is tiresome and so are people quoting the ever so patronising "megapixel myth" like anyone discussing cameras doesn't already know it's a combination of sensor, glass and processing.

[scottylans]

I would so prefer them double the hardware speed and keep existing software. I still think their software is too much for the hardware i.e. they could make the iPhone a lot more 'snappier'

You must be a 3G owner, not a 3GS owner.
I had a 3G and it was fine, when OS 3.0 came out, you'd swear apple deliberately slowed it down, my 3G was no longer snappy enough, the 3GS is fine though.

Would love a bloody option in the iphone camera software to take a picture by clicking ANYWHERE on the screen though - hard to hit the button when you can't always see it.

[cmaier]

Would love a bloody option in the iphone camera software to take a picture by clicking ANYWHERE on the screen though - hard to hit the button when you can't always see it.

"There's an app for that."

[na1577]

All three claims turned out to be incorrect, however, as Apple apparently scrapped (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/11/apple-still-planning-camera-in-ipod-touch/) plans for including a camera in the iPod touch after the thinness of the device caused difficulties with its inclusion, the iPod nano received only a 0.3-megapixel camera, and the iPod classic failed to receive a camera at all.

That may or may not true. We don't know why the touch doesn't have a camera.

[sushi]

Given that the camera has a crappy lens and a high noise sensor, all a flash will do is give horribly distorted and useless pictures at night.
Is this your opinion, or have you data to confirm this?

Curious. TIA?

[cmaier]

Is this your opinion, or have you data to confirm this?

Curious. TIA?

Try the following experiment. Get a small flashlight. The weaker the better, to match what a phone could provide. Go into a dark room. Point your flashlight at something and take a picture with your iPhone.

[sellitman]

The camera is one of my most used options on my old original iPhone. I hope to finally ditch this thing when the new iPhones come out.

5 mega pixels would rock.

[BeamWalker]

Megapixels don't mean squat without a lens that can handle them. I would trade a 5 MP Sensor for a 3.2 MP Sensor with a decent glass lens anyday.

[AidenShaw]

Try the following experiment. Get a small flashlight. The weaker the better, to match what a phone could provide. Go into a dark room. Point your flashlight at something and take a picture with your iPhone.

How does a pulsed LED compare to a "weaker the better flashlight" for a flash?

My phone camera has a flash, and it's useful for small group photos (2-4 people). It won't light up the Mall, but it's definitely an asset for those close-up situations.

(...and I have a guide 20 (ft) compact flash and guide 138 (ft) big flash for my bridge digicam - so I do understand flash. The phone camera flash is not even close to the builtin flash on the digicam, but the camera flash is an asset, not a detriment.)


Megapixels don't mean squat without a lens that can handle them. I would trade a 5 MP Sensor for a 3.2 MP Sensor with a decent glass lens anyday.

Yes, definitely. And don't forget aperture - my digicam's f1.8 7 element glass lens is a huge advantage in low light situations. Pixels, aperture, quality - 3 things that show up in the photos but not in the edited datasheets. And pixels are the least important....

[Skoal]

What is the point? Simple - giving an ignorant consumer what he thinks he wants. Ask almost anyone not knowledgeable about the technical aspects of cameras the they will tell you "more MPs are better"

Exactly! Like adding that stupid voice function to the latest shuffle!

[sushi]

Try the following experiment. Get a small flashlight. The weaker the better, to match what a phone could provide. Go into a dark room. Point your flashlight at something and take a picture with your iPhone.

Interesting that you would use this as a comparison.

This post pretty much captures my thoughts:

How does a pulsed LED compare to a "weaker the better flashlight" for a flash?

My camera has a flash, and it's useful for small group photos (2-4 people). It won't light up the Mall, but it's definitely an asset for those close-up situations.

(...and I have a guide 20 (ft) compact flash and guide 138 (ft) big flash for my bridge digicam - so I do under stand flash. The camera flash is not even close to the builtin flash on the digicam, but the camera flash is an asset, not a detriment.)

cmaier, a small flash would be useful on the iPhone. I can think of numerous uses where using a small flash would definitely help take a better picture.

[DiamondMac]

I use my iPhone camera almost weekly so any improvements to it are a plus to me.

I didn't upgrade to the 3GS so this upgrade is my mine :D

[sushi]

I use my iPhone camera almost weekly so any improvements to it are a plus to me.
Having a camera with you at all times is definitely very convenient.

Plus the iPhone makes it so easy to e-mail a photo if you need to.