Apple's Research on Tactile Feedback for Touchscreen Keyboard Revisited

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/24/apples-research-on-tactile-feedback-for-touchscreen-keyboard-revisited/)

In the wake of yesterday's provocative hint (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/23/jobs-extremely-happy-with-upcoming-apple-tablet-and-a-surprise/) suggesting that users would be "surprised how you interact" with Apple's much-rumored tablet, speculation has begun about what that surprise might be. Conveniently enough, a patent application (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20090315830.PGNR.&OS=DN/20090315830&RS=DN/20090315830) published today entitled "Keystroke tactility arrangement on a smooth touch surface" revisits previously-revealed technology from Apple regarding possible tactile feedback for a touchscreen device such as a tablet.

The technology described in the patent application addresses several mechanisms for providing tactile feedback for a keyboard displayed on a smooth touchscreen surface, including: 1) use of protruding bumps to identify keys; 2) use of an "articulating frame" that can raise and lower depending on whether the screen is being used for gesturing or typing to offer the user a frame of reference for key edges; and 3) use of fixed key edges below a compliant gel or foam surface that would be smooth when subjected to light pressure of gesturing but offering tactile ridges under harder pressure of typing.Disclosed are four arrangements for providing tactility on a touch surface keyboard. One approach is to provide tactile feedback mechanisms, such as dots, bars, or other shapes on all or many keys. In another embodiment, an articulating frame may be provided that extends when the surface is being used in a typing mode and retracts when the surface is used in some other mode, e.g., a pointing mode. The articulating frame may provide key edge ridges that define the boundaries of the key regions or may provide tactile feedback mechanisms within the key regions. The articulating frame may also be configured to cause concave depressions similar to mechanical key caps in the surface. In another embodiment, a rigid, non-articulating frame may be provided beneath the surface. A user will then feel higher resistance when pressing away from the key centers, but will feel a softer resistance at the key center.

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/12/24/151943-touchscreen_tactile_feedback.png

"Articulated frame" for demarcating key edges in raised (top) and lowered (bottom) positions
The patent application also describes the use of automatic methods for activation and deactivation of the articulated frame, utilizing the touchscreen capabilities to sense sliding or mouse-click-like tapping as requiring the frame to be deactivated, and "home row" positioning of fingers or asynchronous tapping as requiring the frame to be activated.

This new patent application, filed in August, is actually a divisional of a previous application (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/01/apple-researching-touch-surface-keyboard/) filed in April 2006, with the new application focusing only on touchscreen-based keyboard applications. The patent application is credited to Wayne Westerman, founder of FingerWorks, the company acquired by Apple (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/03/10/apple-refining-the-touch-screen-interface-evidence-for-a-tablet-mac/) in 2005 that is responsible for the multi-touch technology used in the iPhone and a number of other Apple products.


Article Link: Apple's Research on Tactile Feedback for Touchscreen Keyboard Revisited (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/24/apples-research-on-tactile-feedback-for-touchscreen-keyboard-revisited/)

[peepboon]

We'll get to know when it finally debuts :D

[j-traxx]

whoa. i cant even begin to imagine what this will be like.

[SAMTATSICPRO]

Can't wait for the surprise!

[Maserati7200]

This is some cool technology, now I'm really a believer in this tablet. This is going to be the next revolution, like the iPod and iPhone.

[kmiahali]

I'll just leave the surprise for next January, whatever it may be.. Expect something great, since Apple has a knack of introducing things that competitors can't achieve as quickly or successfully.

[carmenodie]

sounds good but you'll need a special screen that can flex while providing an image. So yeah, that dimple thing sounds great but what about the screen.
IMHO!

[doctoree]

sounds good but you'll need a special screen that can flex while providing an image. So yeah, that dimple thing sounds great but what about the screen.
IMHO!

Well, apparently Apple solved that.

[baryon]

Wow I guess we've never seen that implemented anywhere... if the screen is glass, how will anything change its surface? Glass is kinda rigid... So I guess this can only work with some thin plastic... But let's just trust Apple, I'm sure they won't make a bad compromise...

[gocardsfan1]

I have no idea what it would be like to type on such a surface...but wow thats some incredible technology. I can't begin to imagine what life will be like 20+ years from now...

[dtfitzp]

Two screens, hinged, one with tactile feedback that can be oriented anywhere, left-side, right-side, below like a keyboard or flipped all the way around for reverse side input with visual and tactile feedback. This is the only design that a answers all the questions for use as a netbook with keyboard, a media player with stand, a touch screen game system, an ereader with lots of screen space and a tablet with surprising interaction.

[Meta22]

I bet they'll use the same technology on the iphone 4g. it'll b so cool!

[theheadguy]

Regarding January, anybody think we are all up for a huge dissapointment? (i.e. January will have nothing to do with a tablet or tactile feedback at all...)

[JayLenochiniMac]

sounds good but you'll need a special screen that can flex while providing an image. So yeah, that dimple thing sounds great but what about the screen.
IMHO!

OLEDs can flex.

[segers909]

My English isn't that good and this article uses extremely complicated words - could somebody please try to explain this in simpler English or maybe in Dutch?
Thank you!

[nagromme]

Neat concepts, but none of them sound useful/practical to me, at least in the short term.

I expect any innovation to come in what’s ON the screen. More screen area could facilitate more complex operations.

[Maserati7200]

Regarding January, anybody think we are all up for a huge dissapointment? (i.e. January will have nothing to do with a tablet or tactile feedback at all...)
That's is certainly likely, I'm usually pessimistic about these things but it all seems so clear now, I SEE THE LIGHT.

[Arbuthnott]

I think the surprise is that the tablet will be managed using a stylus, using the notepad paradigm. The lack of handwriting recognition has been a persistent weakness in the iPhone & I believe that Apple have finally cracked it - they got very close with the final version of the Newton.

[MacRenegade]

My English isn't that good and this article uses extremely complicated words - could somebody please try to explain this in simpler English or maybe in Dutch?
Thank you!

Try Google Translate. ;)
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=en&tl=nl&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.macrumors.com%2F2009%2F12%2F24%2Fapples-research-on-tactile-feedback-for-touchscreen-keyboard-revisited%2F

[segers909]

Try Google Translate. ;)
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=en&tl=nl&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.macrumors.com%2F2009%2F12%2F24%2Fapples-research-on-tactile-feedback-for-touchscreen-keyboard-revisited%2F

If i do that, the article makes even less sense :)
Here is the article translated to Dutch and then back to English:

http://pastie.org/755985

[powers74]

This tech just seems sooo far out... Soooo many years away.

[CFreymarc]

Graphical displays with a transparent and software adjustable tactile feedback surface has had limited use in military and some specialized laboratory environments for at least ten years. However, this will be the first mass market implementation of it that I know. There may be some asian market novelity app using this. If anyone knows, please post here.

Heifer's Law will be in full force here. All of these cybergirl app authors on the iPhone will go all over this where now you can give selective texture to different parts of the screen. I'm sure you all can go from there.

My guess is the screen quality will be compromised a bit for the selective texture and the first round will only be a one-bit smooth / rough implementation with next generations offering different levels. Perhaps you can "half tone" it in a way with dimple patterns to give different feelings.

One big question I have on this is how long will it last before these adjustable dimples wear out? You are talking very small parts that are transparent here.

[jayducharme]

If I'm truly going to be surprised by how I interact with it, there'd have to be something more than a new surface that I interact with in the same old way. Just as how gestures on the iPhone created a whole new paradigm for interactivity, I'm hoping for an extension of those concepts, somehow taking gestures to the next level.

[JayLenochiniMac]

I think the surprise is that the tablet will be managed using a stylus, using the notepad paradigm. The lack of handwriting recognition has been a persistent weakness in the iPhone & I believe that Apple have finally cracked it - they got very close with the final version of the Newton.

Difficult to believe considering that Steve publicity criticized the stylus.

[simulacra]

I dont get it, how large are those "riser parts" going to be?
Are they supposed to be as small as a pixel?
Or really large which means that we lose alot of screen real estate...

[olvrfshr]

If i do that, the article makes even less sense :)
Here is the article translated to Dutch and then back to English:

http://pastie.org/755985

Apple is working on making touch screens with bumps so you can feel the keys. These bumps can be raised or lowered.

[tandeh]

I dont get it, how large are those "riser parts" going to be?
Are they supposed to be as small as a pixel?
Or really large which means that we lose alot of screen real estate...

Forget dead pixels, get ready for dead tactile risers :D

[segers909]

Apple is working on making touch screens with bumps so you can feel the keys. These bumps can be raised or lowered.

Thank you very very much :) Now it actually makes sense.

[ipoppy]

ohh well...its look like i got to buy more Apple shares then :eek:

[Maserati7200]

ohh well...its look like i got to buy more Apple shares then :eek:
Quick! Yesterday it was at $202 a share and now it's at $209 a share!

[BlueRevolution]

I hate to say it, but I've had something like this in mind for years. I don't have the knowhow to iron out the specifics, obviously, but tactile feedback was just a matter of time. I wonder if it'll be pronounced enough for Apple to introduce a braille interface. Now THAT would be awesome.

Well, apparently Apple solved that.

No, apparently they came up with a far-fetched conceptual patent to address that. Whether they have actually solved it is another matter.

OLEDs can flex.

Sure, but for this to be effective they'd have to crease, which is a completely different ball of wax.

Difficult to believe considering that Steve publicity criticized the stylus.

He also publicly criticized watching videos on an iPod screen... :rolleyes:

I dont get it, how large are those "riser parts" going to be?
Are they supposed to be as small as a pixel?
Or really large which means that we lose alot of screen real estate...

I think the point is that you don't lose real estate because the keyboard disappears when not in use. I don't think they need to be (or can be) as small as a pixel, but one every 4-5 pixels would provide a pretty reliable tactile interface. Your fingers aren't as sensitive as your eyes.

[scottness]

Forget dead pixels, get ready for dead tactile risers :D

That's what I'm wary of.

[Nudist]

My English isn't that good and this article uses extremely complicated words - could somebody please try to explain this in simpler English or maybe in Dutch?
Thank you!


Use babblefish to translate the article into dutch :cool:

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/

[cmaier]

seems like an impractical idea. Seemed like an impractical idea when I read the parent patent application a couple years back. doubt we'll be hearing about it soon. Guess we'll see.

[Nudist]

I think the surprise is that the tablet will be managed using a stylus, using the notepad paradigm. The lack of handwriting recognition has been a persistent weakness in the iPhone & I believe that Apple have finally cracked it - they got very close with the final version of the Newton.

I would be surprised if this is the surprise. Steve Job hates stylus input with a passion

[olvrfshr]

Use babblefish to translate the article into dutch :cool:

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/

babblefish :)

[dynamo22]

this better not be the same technology used on the blackberry storm 2

[LoCarbHotrod]

Wow, and people say apple doesn't innovate...

[Pilgrim1099]

This tech just seems sooo far out... Soooo many years away.

It's not light years away. It's already been in existence for years. Look up FingerWorks via Google. Or fingerworks.com.

THEY are the ones responsible for that technology behind Apple's iPod Touch/iPhone and other things. It was THEY, NOT Apple, that provided the technology. Apple did NOT invent it but rather ACQUIRED it.

That's how the conglomerates work. They don't invent things out of thin air. They buy them into their fold.

[cmaier]

It's not light years away. It's already been in existence for years. Look up FingerWorks via Google. Or fingerworks.com.



Fingerworks did not have dynamically-generated tactile feedback. They had fixed bumps over the home row of keys.

[Doctor Q]

I would be very surprised if Apple had just applied for a patent for technology to be introduced in the marketplace less than a month later. They haven't done anything like that before, have they?

If a tablet using this type of tactile feedback is ready for release, they would have to have developed this technology much earlier but without applying for a patent. That would be a risky strategy just to keep their R&D secret.

[cmaier]

I would be very surprised if Apple had just applied for a patent for technology to be introduced in the marketplace less than a month later. They haven't done anything like that before, have they?

If a tablet using this type of tactile feedback is ready for release, they would have to have developed this technology much earlier but without applying for a patent. That would be a risky strategy just to keep their R&D secret.

If I recall, the first application on this idea was filed by them around 2007. Since this app was just published, it must have been filed 18 months ago (patent applications are published 18 months after filing). Note that they could have (but didn't) submit a non-publication request that would prevent publication until the patent issues (but prevent international patents). This probably means they don't intend to use it - they wouldn't want to tip off the competition ahead of time, I would think.

[appleguy123]

If I recall, the first application on this idea was filed by them around 2007. Since this app was just published, it must have been filed 18 months ago (patent applications are published 18 months after filing). Note that they could have (but didn't) submit a non-publication request that would prevent publication until the patent issues (but prevent international patents). This probably means they don't intend to use it - they wouldn't want to tip off the competition ahead of time, I would think.

I think it was in August.

[cmaier]

I think it was in August.

It actually claims priority to a 2003 application, which is why it published so fast.

[kockgunner]

I can imagine finger grease and gunk getting caught in the grooves of the bumps which will get extruded into noodle like protrusions when the keyboard activates :X

[aeaglex07]

It sounds kinda cool but i doubt the "surprise" is tactile feedback....i dont see any extra benefit to this. I think the surprise is more of the operating system and how it interacts with the user. Meaning i think were going to see a new beefed up iPhone-ish OS.... which would still be revolutionary on a tablet....in a sense LOL

either way I Want One LOL

[kdarling]

It's not light years away. It's already been in existence for years. Look up FingerWorks via Google. Or fingerworks.com.

THEY are the ones responsible for that technology behind Apple's iPod Touch/iPhone and other things. It was THEY, NOT Apple, that provided the technology. Apple did NOT invent it but rather ACQUIRED it.

FingerWorks only had patents and worked with opaque surfaces such as keyboards... never with transparent touchscreens.

That's how the conglomerates work. They don't invent things out of thin air. They buy them into their fold.

Yep, that's often true.

[bobborries]

Steve once said the best way to interact with a computer is talking to it, like a human. Tactal bumps are good for us geeks, but most people do not prefer to type. I'd be surprised if the surprise is what was just pattended.

[amirite]

Difficult to believe considering that Steve publicity criticized the stylus.

For a phone.

(but I do agree that the Slate won't use a stylus)

[Pachang]

I would be very surprised if Apple had just applied for a patent for technology to be introduced in the marketplace less than a month later. They haven't done anything like that before, have they?

If a tablet using this type of tactile feedback is ready for release, they would have to have developed this technology much earlier but without applying for a patent. That would be a risky strategy just to keep their R&D secret.


I wouldn't be. Steve keeps everything hush hush. Apple doesn't need a patent because they know they are the only ones who will take the risk to develop this tech. If the other companies knew what they were doing via patents they would start making their own competing technology. This way no one knows what they are going to do right up until they release the thing. This means they are already about 2 years ahead of the market with no competition.

[lilskaterpunk]

Surprise surprise! I can't wait to see whats up Apple sleeve :apple:

[Pilgrim1099]

I was'nt aware of the fixed bumps over the home row of keys. I remember very well the days of Fingerworks when they were in business and a good friend of mine was very lucky to have one of those touch keyboards, before Apple acquired them. I've never seen it but he says he has one in possession so I believe him because he did work for IBM in Vermont back then.

However, my point was that FingerWorks was entirely responsible for the provision of the the multi-touch technology that Apple used. I believe the fixed bumps became an afterthought and the former FingerWorks designer realized they can improve on it and I'm sure he must've have pitched that idea to Steve Jobs.

After all, he is the expert on this and this is why Apple acquired his business.

The dynamic bumps, I suspect, are probably a way to use a SHIFT key. So, obviously if you use double-tap, you'll feel the bumps to use CAPS. And then tap again to use lower-case. Makes a hell of a lot of sense why they're going that route.

Fingerworks did not have dynamically-generated tactile feedback. They had fixed bumps over the home row of keys.

[TalkAboutApple]

Like a few of you said, this is either an idea that some of us have been thinking about or something we've heard about in research. The real trick, of course, is to integrate the mechanical/optical parts in a way that actually works!

I'd be very surprised (delighted) if the tablet had something like this. I'm just hoping for a solid 1st gen tablet at a reasonable price.

Since we are talking about innovative ideas, I am surprised that no one has yet come out with a keyboard that replaces some (or all) the silkscreened letters on the keys with tiny 30x30 pixel LCD's. This would be very nice, if it was too expensive to do all the keys (for kick-ass language features, for example), a dozen keys at the top of the keyboard for application-specific uses would be very handy. Apple would be a good company to do this because it owns the OS and hardware.

[cmaier]

if the fingerworks guys have anything to do with this they would have to be listed as inventors in this patent application. It's the law that you must list anyone who conceived any part of the claimed invention (and you can't list anyone else). So are any of those guys from fingerworks?

I was'nt aware of the fixed bumps over the home row of keys. I remember very well the days of Fingerworks when they were in business and a good friend of mine was very lucky to have one of those touch keyboards, before Apple acquired them. I've never seen it but he says he has one in possession so I believe him because he did work for IBM in Vermont back then.

However, my point was that FingerWorks was entirely responsible for the provision of the the multi-touch technology that Apple used. I believe the fixed bumps became an afterthought and the former FingerWorks designer realized they can improve on it and I'm sure he must've have pitched that idea to Steve Jobs.

After all, he is the expert on this and this is why Apple acquired his business.

The dynamic bumps, I suspect, are probably a way to use a SHIFT key. So, obviously if you use double-tap, you'll feel the bumps to use CAPS. And then tap again to use lower-case. Makes a hell of a lot of sense why they're going that route.

[lamar777]

I believe this will never see use. I think it was a patent developed prior to the introduction of the iPhone or shortly after right? Y'all remember all the fuss over no tactile feedback, it still exists. It's like Apple worried about it, problem solved it, debated it, developed it, and in the end chose not to pursue. Now Apple seems firmly in the camp of virtual keyboards, IMHO, as well they should be. Others are moving that way. Apparently the new google phone has no physical keyboard.

So I think this patent will end up being a relic or put to use in some other way.

The integrated screen/camera patent a while back is much more interesting and likely in my mind. Pupil recognition and tracking would be sick. Imagine looking at your HD icon "double-blinking" and a finder window opening, then looking near the bottom for the list to scroll. That, would be surprising. Not only would it be revolutionary it would help with eye strain :)

That's dreaming im sure.

So what's the surprising interaction method more likely to be? Expansive voice control and a "surprisingly" expanded gesture library anyone, or not surprising enough?

[lamar777]

Since we are talking about innovative ideas, I am surprised that no one has yet come out with a keyboard that replaces some (or all) the silkscreened letters on the keys with tiny 30x30 pixel LCD's. This would be very nice, if it was too expensive to do all the keys (for kick-ass language features, for example), a dozen keys at the top of the keyboard for application-specific uses would be very handy. Apple would be a good company to do this because it owns the OS and hardware.

Keyboards really are starting to seem like archaic parts attached to modern machines.

I believe that the iPhone will be looked back on as the beginning of a shift away from mechanical input devices. If a tablet is release with a virtual keyboard that will just be another step toward keyboards going bye bye.

Step 3?

I don't think the traditional clam-shell laptop will go away but the input side of the clam could definitely use a reworking, one solid touch surface with customizable input. This is where the old split keyboard idea would actually make sense. The angle on those physical split keyboards never worked for me, but if I could bring up a keyboard on my input pad, place my fingers and then split it, positioning my hands in the most comfortable way anywhere on the surface, that would be more than neat.

Combine that with retina tracking and the keys could disappear if you were looking at the screen but fade back in if you were to glance down at your keyboard.

Far enough into the future we may just see people tapping away in coffee shops at blank black pads that only come to life when the person looks down, because in a way aren't keystrokes just touch gestures?

Think about how hard you had to push on the key of an old school typewriter, we've been tapping softer and softer since that day, seems like natural progression to me.

80% of all my spelling mistakes on my laptop happen cause I didn't push the key hard enough, i blame the iPhone..

[Sunbro]

What everyone seems to be missing is that this tactile keyboard will not be on the front of the devise on the screen, but rather on the back side. The front will be a regular glass screen with no on screen keyboard, but rather you'll be able to look at the screen and type on the back of the device with your fingers while holding it with two hands. The tactile bumps on the back will be used to help your fingers locate the buttons without actually looking at them, and when not in typing mode they will retract and provide a smooth surface to rest the device on. This is very innovative and may actually alleviate the problem of not having a physical keyboard on a tablet. I WANT ONE NOW!!!

[lamar777]

This is very innovative and may actually alleviate the problem of not having a physical keyboard on a tablet. I WANT ONE NOW!!!

I don't believe that Apple sees it as a "problem" so I vote 'not gonna happen' on the back becoming input.

besides, the back of the device is what you set it down on, you should see the back of my iPod, in fact every iPod I have ever had.

I also do not think that Apple would completely prohibit the ability of the consumer to put a case on what is likely to be as fragile a device as the iPhone and believe me they are fragile.

The back will stay the back. I think the only back that this patent will ever see is the back of a filing bin.

[Sunbro]

I don't believe that Apple sees it as a "problem" so I vote 'not gonna happen' on the back becoming input.

besides, the back of the device is what you set it down on, you should see the back of my iPod, in fact every iPod I have ever had.

I also do not think that Apple would completely prohibit the ability of the consumer to put a case on what is likely to be as fragile a device as the iPhone and believe me they are fragile.

The back will stay the back. I think the only back that this patent will ever see is the back of a filing bin.

You seemed to miss what i said, the tactile bumps on the back of the device will RETRACT when not in keyboard mode providing a smooth surface just like your iphone and ipods now.

Recall the New York Times report from an insider that claimed "you will be surprised how you interact with the device", an on screen keyboard is nothing new even with bumps.

[lamar777]

You seemed to miss what i said, the tactile bumps on the back of the device will RETRACT when not in keyboard mode providing a smooth surface just like your iphone and ipods now.

And just like my iPods now that surface would get destroyed, scratched, bumped, scraped and once in a while wet. Even if they retract to make a flat surface the back is going to take the most abuse of the entire device. It is just not the appropriate place to implement the kind of tech we are talking about.

While I think the tactile thing is a cool patent and may have some future use I think this is not it.

Recall the New York Times report from an insider that claimed "you will be surprised how you interact with the device", an on screen keyboard is nothing new even with bumps.

Yes I recall. And I never said an onscreen keyboard was new.

This thread exsists because,
"In the wake of yesterday's provocative hint suggesting that users would be "surprised how you interact" with Apple's much-rumored tablet, SPECULATION has begun about what that surprise might be."
I added the emphasis on speculation. So, just because somebody said we would be surprised does not mean the iWhatever will have the backside of a french tickler.

And again, you really think Apple is going to create something that nobody can sell accessories for?

Besides, if you think about it, the device having the ability to make little bumps changes the way that the device interacts with me and does not change in any fundamental way the how I interact with the device.

The above quote is clear to me, something I do will be different but this patent describes something the device will do.

I'll give it to you that me interacting with the back would be different but as I'm sure you can tell I think the idea is impractical.

For my thoughts on what would be "surprising" see my post a couple up titled going out on a limb.

[lamar777]

You seemed to miss what i said, the tactile bumps on the back of the device will RETRACT when not in keyboard mode providing a smooth surface just like your iphone and ipods now.

Recall the New York Times report from an insider that claimed "you will be surprised how you interact with the device", an on screen keyboard is nothing new even with bumps.

Oh and welcome BTW.

[Pilgrim1099]

Cmaier,

It is true that Apple did acquire Fingerworks and it ceased as a company. If you go to www.fingerworks.com, you'll then see why it's not in operation anymore, except that it still shows the photos of their products way before Apple ever included the multi-touch technology. They got bought out in around 2005-2006.

I don't think their names can be revealed because if Apple buys them out, then they own the patent as well. It was a corporate 'buy out' to prevent other tech companies such as Microsoft from getting their hands on them.

So, believe me. That story circulated around a couple years ago about Fingerworks and Apple. All that multi-touch stuff that you're seeing on Apple's products originally came from FingerWorks and I'm sure the CEO/engineer is the only person along with a few others are working for Apple's multi-touch division. The rest of the crew was laid off.

I hate to say this but there are lot of ignorant people out there who have NO idea that this was FingerWork's technology that preceded all this. CNN's story on the tablet shows some of the comments that were just so un-educated it's not even funny. They assumed it was Steve Jobs that invented it. That's BS. He is a visionary and a very good businessman. All he did was add his own ideas to meld with FingerWorks' technology to improve on a few things to give his company a competitive edge and change the way we interact with computers and devices, but also our productivity.

People need to stop kissing Jobs' a$$ and realize that he is NOT God. He makes mistakes and is only human. Remember the G4 Cube? I grew up with Apple's products since the early 1980s. I'm not knocking Jobs because he is a very intelligent man and understands his market well.

People need to realize that the 'Slate' may not be a full-blown Mac computer, but a hybrid between a Netbook and a Tablet PC, filling in that particular void as an in-betweener for simple and light productivity work 'on the go' that would be good for anyone in any industry, even the educational sector. I'm sure eventually between 5 to 10 years from now that Slate would and CAN replace the laptops, if the market demands for it.

As an artist/designer, I would like to have the Slate as my digital 'book'. "Book" is a term in the creative industry for portfolio for presentation purposes with the Art Director or meeting with clients to showcase the project in progress, and perhaps make editing changes there, but the real work would be done on the main system (Mac Pro, MacBook etc).

He was one of the people who probably engineered the Marvel buyout from Disney, that would probably tie in with his Tablet/Slate concept.

I would'nt be surprised if Mr. Jobs decided to use that Slate to enhance the medical industry for doctors, LPNs, etc. After all, he must've done a lot of thinking while being in the hospital for his illness and saw doctors/nurses carrying items that could'nt streamlined the process and figured "Hey, maybe our Slate could solve their productivity issues".

Think about it.

if the fingerworks guys have anything to do with this they would have to be listed as inventors in this patent application. It's the law that you must list anyone who conceived any part of the claimed invention (and you can't list anyone else). So are any of those guys from fingerworks?

[cmaier]

you've missed my point. I know all about fingerworks and that apple bought them. You said they have something to do with the TACTILE FEEDBACK patent. I said that if that was so then former fingerworks employees would be listed as inventors on that patent. That is the law. There is no exception. A patent is invalid unless the list of inventors is correct. There is no "cannot be revealed" exception.

So the simple question is whether any of the listed inventors on the tactile feedback patent applications used to work at fingerworks or not.

Cmaier,

It is true that Apple did acquire Fingerworks and it ceased as a company. If you go to www.fingerworks.com, you'll then see why it's not in operation anymore, except that it still shows the photos of their products way before Apple ever included the multi-touch technology. They got bought out in around 2005-2006.

I don't think their names can be revealed because if Apple buys them out, then they own the patent as well. It was a corporate 'buy out' to prevent other tech companies such as Microsoft from getting their hands on them.

So, believe me. That story circulated around a couple years ago about Fingerworks and Apple. All that multi-touch stuff that you're seeing on Apple's products originally came from FingerWorks and I'm sure the CEO/engineer is the only person along with a few others are working for Apple's multi-touch division. The rest of the crew was laid off.

I hate to say this but there are lot of ignorant people out there who have NO idea that this was FingerWork's technology that preceded all this. CNN's story on the tablet shows some of the comments that were just so un-educated it's not even funny. They assumed it was Steve Jobs that invented it. That's BS. He is a visionary and a very good businessman. All he did was add his own ideas to meld with FingerWorks' technology to improve on a few things to give his company a competitive edge and change the way we interact with computers and devices, but also our productivity.

People need to stop kissing Jobs' a$$ and realize that he is NOT God. He makes mistakes and is only human. Remember the G4 Cube? I grew up with Apple's products since the early 1980s. I'm not knocking Jobs because he is a very intelligent man and understands his market well.

People need to realize that the 'Slate' may not be a full-blown Mac computer, but a hybrid between a Netbook and a Tablet PC, filling in that particular void as an in-betweener for simple and light productivity work 'on the go' that would be good for anyone in any industry, even the educational sector. I'm sure eventually between 5 to 10 years from now that Slate would and CAN replace the laptops, if the market demands for it.

As an artist/designer, I would like to have the Slate as my digital 'book'. "Book" is a term in the creative industry for portfolio for presentation purposes with the Art Director or meeting with clients to showcase the project in progress, and perhaps make editing changes there, but the real work would be done on the main system (Mac Pro, MacBook etc).

He was one of the people who probably engineered the Marvel buyout from Disney, that would probably tie in with his Tablet/Slate concept.

I would'nt be surprised if Mr. Jobs decided to use that Slate to enhance the medical industry for doctors, LPNs, etc. After all, he must've done a lot of thinking while being in the hospital for his illness and saw doctors/nurses carrying items that could'nt streamlined the process and figured "Hey, maybe our Slate could solve their productivity issues".

Think about it.

[Pilgrim1099]

Cmaier,

The problem is that lilskaterpunk mentioned the tactile feedback from FingerWorks. Not me. Therefore, if you don't see them listed, that means Apple is hiding the names OR that they can't own the patent because other competitors are using it such as RIM's tactile feedback on the Storm. It does NOT mean Apple invented the feedack but rather included the idea into the tablet device. You'll have to dig deeper into the records.

[cmaier]

Cmaier,

The problem is that lilskaterpunk mentioned the tactile feedback from FingerWorks. Not me. Therefore, if you don't see them listed, that means Apple is hiding the names OR that they can't own the patent because other competitors are using it such as RIM's tactile feedback on the Storm. It does NOT mean Apple invented the feedack but rather included the idea into the tablet device. You'll have to dig deeper into the records.

I don't know of they are listed or not. But if they are not, then they had nothing to do with tactile stuff. Apple cannot legally hide their names.

[Pilgrim1099]

I'm typing from my Blackberry (sorry, no iphone for me)and see your point. Let's supposed they are hiding the credit of invention from FingerWorks, then this could be a big story and land Apple in huge trouble.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to see any info on tactile feedback on FingerWorks' old website. The OP to my post may be making it up. But I have to double-check to make sure.

There's got to be an article via Google search or on MacForums archive about Apple buying out FingerWorks to see exactly which tech was bought and which was dumped.

QUOTE=cmaier;9001932]I don't know of they are listed or not. But if they are not, then they had nothing to do with tactile stuff. Apple cannot legally hide their names.[/QUOTE]

[findwaldonow]

Keyboards really are starting to seem like archaic parts attached to modern machines.

I believe that the iPhone will be looked back on as the beginning of a shift away from mechanical input devices. If a tablet is release with a virtual keyboard that will just be another step toward keyboards going bye bye.

Step 3?

I don't think the traditional clam-shell laptop will go away but the input side of the clam could definitely use a reworking, one solid touch surface with customizable input. This is where the old split keyboard idea would actually make sense. The angle on those physical split keyboards never worked for me, but if I could bring up a keyboard on my input pad, place my fingers and then split it, positioning my hands in the most comfortable way anywhere on the surface, that would be more than neat.

Combine that with retina tracking and the keys could disappear if you were looking at the screen but fade back in if you were to glance down at your keyboard.

Far enough into the future we may just see people tapping away in coffee shops at blank black pads that only come to life when the person looks down, because in a way aren't keystrokes just touch gestures?

Think about how hard you had to push on the key of an old school typewriter, we've been tapping softer and softer since that day, seems like natural progression to me.

80% of all my spelling mistakes on my laptop happen cause I didn't push the key hard enough, i blame the iPhone..

This is some of the silliest nonsense I've ever read. I'll start where I agree. For people who like the split keyboard the ability to have a touch screen input device and set what's comfortable for the hand positions sounds nice.

However, a blank screen with retinal tracking so the key positions appear when you look down? What kind of roundabout stupid crap is that? If we're talking about retinal tracking, why in the world wouldn't the tracking do the typing for you a la systems currently developed and used for the handicapped? You look, it types...rather than looking down to a smooth surface causing key positions to appear because you can't feel what you're doing...just stupid.

Second, I have no idea what this thing will look like but I know if people are going to type on it regularly with any kind of efficiency there's going to have to be some kind of tactile feedback for the keys. Flat surface means losing your place and that means looking down and that means slowing down, period. iPhone virtual keyboards are versatile and fine for quick notes and messages but who would want to takes notes or do a paper or post anything longer than a paragraph on a bigger version of that? It would be a nightmare.

[Pilgrim1099]

Cmaier,

Let me point out a few articles in 2007 or so relating to the buy out.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/22/some-iphone-touchscreen-roots-splained-by-fingerworks-inventors/

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/12385/

A person's blog about it: http://freelancesamurai.wordpress.com/category/fingerworks/

From here:

http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/21/iphone-pc-mag-review-fingerworks-and-jeff-han/

Wayne Westerman is the guy you're thinking of who invented the FingerWorks tech. EDIT: along with a few other folks in his crew back then.

[Pilgrim1099]

There are people out there who say that the Slate can be a virtual keyboard.

Well, have all of you EVER considered where the inspiration may be from?

Here it is:

http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/

http://www.360east.com/?p=889

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/keyboards-mice/9836/

It's going to be similar to that idea but not to that exact physicality, but close.

[cmaier]

Cmaier,

Let me point out a few articles in 2007 or so relating to the buy out.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/22/some-iphone-touchscreen-roots-splained-by-fingerworks-inventors/

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/12385/

A person's blog about it: http://freelancesamurai.wordpress.com/category/fingerworks/

From here:

http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/21/iphone-pc-mag-review-fingerworks-and-jeff-han/

Wayne Westerman is the guy you're thinking of who invented the FingerWorks tech.

What's your point? I've never disputed any of this. If Wayne Westerman was at fingerworks, then former fingerworks guys ARE involved in the raised key technology as he is listed as an inventor on the patent applications.

[Pilgrim1099]

This is one of the reasons why I theorize the Slate (ugh) would probably be clamshell in form like a book.

Check it out:

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/kenh/codex-chi-2009-with-authors.pdf

Of course, imagine THAT dual screen in 10 inches of that size, so literally having two 10 inche clamshell screens popped and flatted into one large double-page spread. What do magazines have in common?

Double-page spread interactive ads. Open and close like it an (i) Book :).

[cmaier]

This is one of the reasons why I theorize the Slate (ugh) would probably be clamshell in form like a book.

Check it out:

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/kenh/codex-chi-2009-with-authors.pdf

Of course, imagine THAT dual screen in 10 inches of that size, so literally having two 10 inche clamshell screens popped and flatted into one large double-page spread. What do magazines have in common?

Double-page spread interactive ads. Open and close like it an (i) Book :).

It would be nice, but given that Apple eschewed clamshell even in phones, where it's been a common paradigm, I doubt it.

[kdarling]

I dont get it, how large are those "riser parts" going to be? Are they supposed to be as small as a pixel? Or really large which means that we lose alot of screen real estate...

In the patent, they're huge. Imagine a pre-determined cut-out keyboard stencil that rises up and creates key depressions on an elastic screen cover.

Basically it's good for creating keys that are always the same shape, in the same location. Hardly science fiction stuff.

I would be surprised if (using a stylus) is the surprise. Steve Job hates stylus input with a passion

His public salesmanship apparently has nothing to do with actual beliefs. He's been known to knock something right up until his product uses it... at which time it becomes the greatest thing ever.

In the case of the iPhone, his product couldn't use an accurate stylus, so of course he put them down. A different product could get a different slant on the topic.

However, my point was that FingerWorks was entirely responsible for the provision of the the multi-touch technology that Apple used.

Again, no. FingerWorks' work and patents were all about gestures on capacitive keyboards, not screens. Moreover, multi-touch capacitive screens had been around years before FingerWorks even existed.

Since we are talking about innovative ideas, I am surprised that no one has yet come out with a keyboard that replaces some (or all) the silkscreened letters on the keys with tiny 30x30 pixel LCD's.

There is such a keyboard with key displays (http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/). It's pretty expensive though. Something like $2000.

[GaryPDX]

I have a friend who is blind. If I understand the patent correctly, then in some form it looks like something that could be developed to provide an input AND output tactile interface for folks who are visually impaired. Either way, this looks very interesting!

[ArrowSmith]

Jobs is going to shock 'n awe ya'll when he unveils the iTablet with stylus.

[GaryPDX]

As I think about this, I am visualizing a very faint background “watermark/wallpaper” layer showing labeled keys, buttons, etc. which could change state when tapped with fingers from the back of the device. I could imagine the layout of such a layer being changed for different application/usage contexts and be visible but unobtrusive behind the main display elements of an application. This could explode the degree of interactivity and the options for interactivity if thoughtfully designed. Plus, it would be very novel.

[appleguy123]

This might be a new keyboard (magic keyboard?) offering true language independence. I would buy it in a heartbeat.

[Flavioparentiq]

Ok, let's talk about science rather that science fiction. What do we have in the market that can be usable for such a "physical interface" to think on?

1. OLED FLEXIBLE DISPLAYS
2. IPHONE OPERATIVE SYSTEM

As flexible as an oled display can be it will NEVER be 5px precise. I would say at least 3 to 5 mm square, so around 20*20px square. I find it very difficult to use that kind of technology that changes dynamically without loosing a lot of precision.

So my guess is that it will be a FIXED, NOT MOVING bump keyboard.

All of us know the IPHONE KEYBOARD. It is always at the same spot.

So i find it more realistic that the bumps of the keyboard will slowly pop out as soon as the fixed on-screen keyboard will show to perfectly match the keyboard.

But while i'm writing this, I ask myself: why the hell should apple build such a useless device :D

[Bickity]

"you will be surprised how you interact with the device"

Let's think about this from another angle. That word interact might not mean the way we physically interact with it, it could mean the way we use the device to interact with other devices. What if it was a new way to interact with our lives through other computers, iPhones, iPods, others "slates" and the big one TV. I watch a lot of TV online and often say way can't my TV be as interactive as this? This "slate" device needs something to set it apart from other devices and this could be it. It could actually bring new life to AppleTV and give it a reason to be.

Just thinking this could be a bigger way to think about it.