Mac Pro (the most configurable mac or not...)

[jmggs]

I have bought a mac pro because is highly configurable. Now i going to sell it.
this a 2006 macpro EFI32, there is no graphic cards the expansion is too limited for a machine that have cost $2000. with that price i have bought a pc and today i can reuse some parts to make a better machine. Apple just want to you keep spend a too much money in a machine that is too limited in terms of expansion. how many graphics cards you have? 3 or 4 and the new ones don't work because apple don't want.

I love mac i will keep my macbook pro, my ipod, but a mac pro i think is a wast of money for a too limited machine in short term.:mad:

[surflordca]

Be my guest and go back to the PC where you belong and have all the Windows headaches...

[jmggs]

Be my guest and go back to the PC where you belong and have all the Windows headaches...

i'am going back to pc but i work all day in a PC with cubase, avid with no headaches, i think is more difficult to most users don't have problems in windows, you need to know more about computers them in mac.

PS. Sometimes i have problems in mac too.

Mac Pro are too expensive for a machine that is not expandable in short term.

[Dr.Pants]

Mac Pro are too expensive for a machine that is not expandable in short term.

What? Do you mean long term? I assume that's what you meant.

I would argue with that statement, though - I was under the impression that the 4870 could go in a MacPro 1.1. Also, did you attempt to swap out processors? A machine is as expandable as much as you want to expand it, and you may not have researched all of your options. I'm even more limited with a G5 (purchased this year), and I happen to make my ends meet.

[jmggs]

What? Do you mean long term? I assume that's what you meant.

I would argue with that statement, though - I was under the impression that the 4870 could go in a MacPro 1.1. Also, did you attempt to swap out processors? A machine is as expandable as much as you want to expand it, and you may not have researched all of your options. I'm even more limited with a G5 (purchased this year), and I happen to make my ends meet.

maybe mid term, why there is so poor offer of graphic cards. I want to upgrade the graphic card to something up to date with a good price.

[lbodnar]

I have bought a mac pro because is highly configurable.

To be fair to Apple, Mac Pro has never been promoted as a machine with extraordinary longevity. It is reasonably configurable when it is a current model but no-one promised to keep it fresh with upgrades.
Have Power Mac G4 or G5 been more long-lasting? No.

If you want to permanently have the flashiest and the beefiest computer in the neighbourhood, stay with PCs and rotate them every 6 month replacing CPUs, motherboards, PSU, cases, etc. What is the problem?

[jmggs]

To be fair to Apple, Mac Pro has never been promoted as a machine with extraordinary longevity. It is reasonably configurable when it is a current model but no-one promised to keep it fresh with upgrades.
Have Power Mac G4 or G5 been more long-lasting? No.

If you want to permanently have the flashiest and the beefiest computer in the neighbourhood, stay with PCs and rotate them every 6 month replacing CPUs, motherboards, PSU, cases, etc. What is the problem?

Thats true, but my machine when i bought was advertised has a true 64bit machine and is not, having a EFI32 that blocks some updates. and i can't boot Snow Leopard at 64bit in a machine advertised as 64bit, but i can use windows 7 64bit.

[lbodnar]

Thats true, but my machine when i bought was advertised has a true 64bit machine and is not, having a EFI32 that blocks some updates. and i can't boot Snow Leopard at 64bit in a machine advertised as 64bit, but i can use windows 7 64bit.

It has not been advertised as "true 64bit machine", it has been advertised to have a 64-bit CPU: http://web.archive.org/web/20060822123855/www.apple.com/macpro/intelxeon.html
...Intel designed this dual-core Xeon to be more efficient, it consumes less power than similar workstation-level processors, so your system fans don’t have to work as hard to keep them cool. Working hand in glove with Mac OS X Tiger, it also continues the tradition of enabling 64-bit computation. Ideal for scientific applications, the 64-bit Intel Xeon processors can express the extreme precision needed for floating-point mathematics and to express integers up to 18 billion billion. It also allows Mac Pro to surpass the 4GB memory limit of 32-bit processors.
The fact that OS produced in 2009 can't use some features of 2006 machine is hardly the machine's fault, isn't it?

[nanofrog]

It has not been advertised as "true 64bit machine", it has been advertised to have a 64-bit CPU: http://web.archive.org/web/20060822123855/www.apple.com/macpro/intelxeon.html

The fact that OS produced in 2009 can't use some features of 2006 machine is hardly the machine's fault, isn't it?
Keep in mind though, these systems use enterprise components (Xeons), yet are supported as a consumer system. While the rest of the world supports enterprise gear for 5 years (or longer at times) from the initial product release.

There's some validity here for being upset. :(

[lbodnar]

Keep in mind though, these systems use enterprise components (Xeons), yet are supported as a consumer system. While the rest of the world supports enterprise gear for 5 years (or longer at times) from the initial product release.
There are emotions, but no single logical reason:
...i will keep my macbook pro, my ipod, but a mac pro i think is a wast of money...
Ironically, MacPro1,1 was exceptional value for money at the time. And remains so.

[KeriJane]

Well, if you're not using a Mac Pro to do serious rendering of graphics or video it's no wonder you're disappointed.

Any Mac Pro is a poor value for Gamers, Surfers or the "gotta have the highest 3DMark score" crowd.
That's not what it was made for. It's a Workstation crammed into a Desktop suit. It wants to render large projects. Given properly configured and adequate memory and drives, it's especially good at video rendering. For its intended purpose, it was and remains a great value.

Go ahead and sell it. Put it up for auction on eBay and you'll probably be surprised at how much value remains.
Maybe someone that can actually put it to good use will pick it up and have it happily rendering away in FCP. Or messing around with massive Photoshop projects.

Please understand, I'm not trying to talk down to you. It does sound like you've bought the wrong system for your needs and you should sell it while it's still worth quite a lot. Quite a lot more than other 2006 era machines BTW, so you shouldn't take too much of a loss.


Have fun with your new system, whatever it might be,
Keri

[lannister80]

Wow, buying an almost-4-year-old machine means you might not be able to upgrade to the newest hardware!

Shocker!

And my PMG4 only has IDE and AGP 8x! What a rip off! :rolleyes:

[zer0tails]

sorry to hear it sucks for you!

But let's set the record straight the mac pro is undoubtedly the most configurable machine in Apple's line up. And not to mention the best mac I've ever owned..switch graphics cards no problem, add more ram OK!, install four more hard drives? sure..a 5th hard drive in the optical bay? yes i could do that too!.. what more can i ask for? :)

[nanofrog]

Ironically, MacPro1,1 was exceptional value for money at the time. And remains so.
I agree. Unfortunately, the EFI32 firmware is going to be a sticking point for many. Not everyone will need to upgrade soon, but some are being forced, as they must have newer graphics cards and OS updates.

Of course, there's retasking as well, even that of a Windows 64 based workstation, which it does well. The firmware doesn't stop this. Only the exclusively K64 versions of OS X that will arrive. Graphics are already a problem under EFI, but the BIOS versions are quite happy under Windows as I understand it.

[Ploki]

maybe mid term, why there is so poor offer of graphic cards. I want to upgrade the graphic card to something up to date with a good price.

surely, you dont need a better gfx card for Cubase?... :)

[Concorde Rules]

CPUs, memory, GPU (4870), HDs and optical drives replaceable..

Seems pretty configurable to me!

My June 2007 Macbook Pro can't run SL 64 either, it doesn't really matter...

[Max(IT)]

I have bought a mac pro because is highly configurable. Now i going to sell it.
this a 2006 macpro EFI32, there is no graphic cards the expansion is too limited for a machine that have cost $2000. with that price i have bought a pc and today i can reuse some parts to make a better machine. Apple just want to you keep spend a too much money in a machine that is too limited in terms of expansion. how many graphics cards you have? 3 or 4 and the new ones don't work because apple don't want.

I love mac i will keep my macbook pro, my ipod, but a mac pro i think is a wast of money for a too limited machine in short term.:mad:

Short term ?!? Dude you have a 2006 computer and we are almost into 2010!
BTW your Mac Pro still has enough power to perform almost every task ...

[bearcatrp]

Boot camp that sucker and add a pc graphics card to it so you can run windows when you want to game. They are expensive but as was posted earlier, these are workstation with xeons in them. You can change the processors. I did mine to an octo and ran pretty sweet. I sold it later and built one similar to a mac pro for about half the price. Only problem is I can't run OS X which I think is the best OS out there. May not be perfect but allot better than the windows headache. They both serve there purpose.

[CaptainChunk]

maybe mid term, why there is so poor offer of graphic cards. I want to upgrade the graphic card to something up to date with a good price.

Not that this necessarily helps, but Apple workstations have had a long history of having limited graphics card options. And aftermarket cards that drop right into a Mac tower out of the box without any hacking are rare and expensive. This is something that all high-end Apple users deal with.

But getting back to the point, Mac Pros are not ideal "power user" machines. And what I mean by "power user" is a user that wants to have complete control over every single aspect of his/her machine. I can't think of a single Apple product that was ever built with the power user in mind. The only way to get complete control is to build it yourself. Perhaps build a Hacintosh if you're that bent on having SL -and- a power user machine. But even still, you can't make just ANY graphics card work in OS X.

[Bubba Satori]

Be my guest and go back to the PC where you belong and have all the Windows headaches...


Touchy, touchy. :D
Bitter and defensive that you only have 2 low end video cards out of over 50 available to choose from for the $2,500 "upgradable" Mac?
Yeah, I'd be touchy and defensive, too, if I realized that after the Koolaid wore off.

[TheSpaz]

I'm kind of upset that the new graphics cards are incompatible. Seriously though... how many graphics options did this machine have? Only VERY FEW.

Let's review:

Nvidia 7300 GT
ATI Radeon X1900 XT
Nvidia Quadro FX 4500
Nvidia GeForce 8800GT

Also, you cannot count the ATI Radeon 4870 as a compatible card because although it WORKS in a first gen Mac Pro, it is not listed as a compatible component for that model. I learned a lesson from this. My ATI 4870 died a few weeks ago and although it was only 6 months old, Apple would not replace it under warranty because I was using it in a 2006 Mac Pro. So there go my chances of getting an LED display. I was fully prepared to spend the money on a new 24" LED, but I guess Apple does not want my money. So yeah, I'm pretty annoyed at the whole situation. Why can't they just say it's compatible? This is just ANOTHER artificial limitation set by Apple.

I'm pretty sick of Apple just cutting off old Macs that are still way more capable than they give them credit for. Apple COULD technically release a firmware update for these machines to give them a 64bit EFI, but they won't.

I'm happy that my computer is running faster than ever with Snow Leopard, but I sure hope that this is not the last OS update for these ancient machines. I really don't feel like spending another $2,500 on another Mac Pro. I bought the Mac Pro because I thought I'd be able to have choices in displays and graphics and it's pretty much the opposite. I can't use the newest displays and there are no graphics cards currently available that are designed for this machine.

The fact is, this machine is not obsolete to me. It's still a VERY fast machine and Snow Leopard flies on it. Why must it be obsolete to Apple?

Count me annoyed at all of this.

[lbodnar]

But getting back to the point, Mac Pros are not ideal "power user" machines. And what I mean by "power user" is a user that wants to have complete control over every single aspect of his/her machine.
Did you mean to say "obsessive delusional control freak" instead? Some people just need a lot of work done very quickly and reliably and this huge calculator with a fruit logo fills the shoes.

[jmggs]

I'm kind of upset that the new graphics cards are incompatible. Seriously though... how many graphics options did this machine have? Only VERY FEW.

Let's review:

Nvidia 7300 GT
ATI Radeon X1900 XT
Nvidia Quadro FX 4500
Nvidia GeForce 8800GT

Also, you cannot count the ATI Radeon 4870 as a compatible card because although it WORKS in a first gen Mac Pro, it is not listed as a compatible component for that model. I learned a lesson from this. My ATI 4870 died a few weeks ago and although it was only 6 months old, Apple would not replace it under warranty because I was using it in a 2006 Mac Pro. So there go my chances of getting an LED display. I was fully prepared to spend the money on a new 24" LED, but I guess Apple does not want my money. So yeah, I'm pretty annoyed at the whole situation. Why can't they just say it's compatible? This is just ANOTHER artificial limitation set by Apple.

I'm pretty sick of Apple just cutting off old Macs that are still way more capable than they give them credit for. Apple COULD technically release a firmware update for these machines to give them a 64bit EFI, but they won't.

I'm happy that my computer is running faster than ever with Snow Leopard, but I sure hope that this is not the last OS update for these ancient machines. I really don't feel like spending another $2,500 on another Mac Pro. I bought the Mac Pro because I thought I'd be able to have choices in displays and graphics and it's pretty much the opposite. I can't use the newest displays and there are no graphics cards currently available that are designed for this machine.

The fact is, this machine is not obsolete to me. It's still a VERY fast machine and Snow Leopard flies on it. Why must it be obsolete to Apple?

Count me annoyed at all of this.

this guy understands me, i just don't understand apple to sell a so expensive machine with so limited upgrade options and because artificial created limitations just to force users to buy another machine. Hey i am not rich, and no, i don't consider a 2006 a so obsolete machine. (do you guys consider a 2006 Ferrari a old car?)

I use my macpro for FCP, motion, AE, Pro Tools... and i would like to have a better graphics cards. THANK YOU APPLE FOR THE SUPPORT.

PS: I have bought this machine back in 2006 new

[grue]

i don't consider a 2006 a so obsolete machine. (do you guys consider a 2006 Ferrari a old car?)



Computers do not compare with cars, because cars do not advance at anything near the rate of computers.

[jmggs]

...i just don't understand how blind are some apple fans..

I need a better graphics card. I will spend another $2500 for a new mac. its normal for some people...accept that apple block graphics updates on pretty capable 2006 mac pro that technically can accept a decent and up to date graphics card.. i am not asking for impossible..

[grue]

...i just don't understand how blind are some apple fans..

I need a better graphics card. I will spend another $2500 for a new mac. its normal for some people...accept that apple block graphics updates on pretty capable 2006 mac pro that technically can accept a decent and up to date graphics card.. i am not asking for impossible..


This isn't really Apple's fault. There's nothing stopping the manufacturers from making good EFI32 graphics cards, they apparently just don't think it's worthwhile

[jmggs]

This isn't really Apple's fault. There's nothing stopping the manufacturers from making good EFI32 graphics cards, they apparently just don't think it's worthwhile

If apple release a simple EFI64 firmware..the problem is solved.

Most of the cards are apple cards..with no EFI32 support

just a simple EFI64 update...

[nanofrog]

If apple release a simple EFI64 firmware..the problem is solved.

Most of the cards are apple cards..with no EFI32 support

just a simple EFI64 update...
Currently, ATI is using EBC based firmware which will work in both 32 and 64 bit versions of EFI. Presumably that trend will continue, so if the 5870 is made into a Mac edition, it will also work in the '06 - 07 MP's. Beyond that, who knows.

But the EFI32 is going to be a problem with OS X once it goes to pure K64 (no more dual Kernel versions), as Apple doesn't seem interested in fixing the firmware in those systems. :(

[grue]

If apple release a simple EFI64 firmware..the problem is solved.

Most of the cards are apple cards..with no EFI32 support

just a simple EFI64 update...

If it's so simple, feel free to do it.

Apple has zero financial incentive to throw engineers at a project like that, and it might not even be technically possible. What's better for Apple: Wasting hundreds (perhaps thousands) of man hours writing all new firmware for a machine and not getting paid for it… or everyone crying about it buying a new Mac Pro?

[jmggs]

If it's so simple, feel free to do it.

Apple has zero financial incentive to throw engineers at a project like that, and it might not even be technically possible. What's better for Apple: Wasting hundreds (perhaps thousands) of man hours writing all new firmware for a machine and not getting paid for it… or everyone crying about it buying a new Mac Pro?

another apple fan...

Consumer support
(many brands motherboard brands do update the firmware of older boards and sometimes add support to new cpus and so on..) is that to complicated to apple NO!

Mac pro's are too expensive to not support them

In another brands with enterprise class hardware, they support old hardware for a good 5 years or more.

an happy consumer will buy more hardware, i will not buy another mac pro ever!
imac or a pc workstation it's a smarter option.

[Max(IT)]

...i just don't understand how blind are some apple fans..

I need a better graphics card. I will spend another $2500 for a new mac. its normal for some people...accept that apple block graphics updates on pretty capable 2006 mac pro that technically can accept a decent and up to date graphics card.. i am not asking for impossible..

Don't name other people "fanboy" when you clearly made an enormous mistake buying the wrong computer ...

There is a huge difference from a 7300GT and a 8800GT, so THERE ARE upgrade options for a 2006's Mac Pro.

And 4 years in this field are geological eras.

As someone already stated: return to the pc world, where you belong ;)

[robotartfashion]

Don't name other people "fanboy" when you clearly made an enormous mistake buying the wrong computer ...

There is a huge difference from a 7300GT and a 8800GT, so THERE ARE upgrade options for a 2006's Mac Pro.

And 4 years in this field are geological eras.

As someone already stated: return to the pc world, where you belong ;)

x2

Mac is not putting these out as "gaming" machines but for Pro apps like video, photographic/graphic arts, music producing. Apple has created boot camp to add functionality for the computers and you should be happy with that,

Apple is a business and they're only going to function inside those parameters, if it makes $ sense then they will do it.

Now if you're complaining because of video work that's one thing, but for the love of Pete not gaming.

I think the issue is that many switchers see a Mac Pro and think of it like the millions of different PC towers out there but it's not, that's the iMac.

:)

[anim8or]

x2

Mac is not putting these out as "gaming" machines but for Pro apps like video, photographic/graphic arts, music producing. Apple has created boot camp to add functionality for the computers and you should be happy with that,

Apple is a business and they're only going to function inside those parameters, if it makes $ sense then they will do it.

Now if you're complaining because of video work that's one thing, but for the love of Pete not gaming.

I think the issue is that many switchers see a Mac Pro and think of it like the millions of different PC towers out there but it's not, that's the iMac.

:)

Where does the guy say he uses it for gaming???

I have used macs since i was 10 and have slowly progressed through many versions of imac, mac mini, notebook and finally Mac Pro systems.

I too work in the digital video industry and am too a little pissed at the lack of support for my 2006 MacPro, in terms of graphics and EFI

I only wish i got more than my 3 years out of this system and knowing that soon i wont be able to maximise its usage due to only it supporting 32bit gets on my nerves simply because the same spec Mac Pro today costs more than i paid for my 2006 mac pro.

Due to the swift update calendar that apple now seems to be following since its switch to intel the second hand value of my Mac Pro is too low to sell as the difference of buying a new one is still very high.

This is supposed to be a pro computer, but i would argue that the imac would be abetter buy as its specs seems to outweigh even my mac pro and comes at a lower cost to upgrade every few years.

I don't really see where apple is going with the Mac Pro anymore... seems too busy keeping the consumers happy, instead of an even balance between consumer rich kid and professional.

[TheSpaz]

First of all, Apple WOULD be making more money by releasing a firmware update for the first gen Mac Pro. Apple would be able to sell more video cards, LED Displays (with Mini Displayport), and future OS updates.

Second of all, these Mac Pro's are required for games if you want a decent Mac with powerful gaming capabilities. I can't think of a better Mac for games than a Mac Pro. So don't just say they're for Final Cut and Aperture.

I bought my Mac Pro because I wanted the flexibility of expansion. Plus, the Mac Pro is supposed to last longer than most Macs.

[nightfly13]

I readily admit I don't have a high degree of understanding about the Mac Pro EFI and how hard it would be for some Mac geeks to take the 2008 firmware and re-write the 2006/7 EFI to be 64-bit compatible.

Is that even the realm of possibility? I'm probably in the middle in this debate, happy with the upgrades I've been able to make (1900 -> 8800 and adding tons of memory and 5 HDD/SSDs) compared to any other Mac, and it's still overkill for 98% of the work I do, and I'll keep it for another 2-3 years.

I think the new Firmware would probably enable us to run 10.7 (although we might be able to run it in 32-bit mode, who can say) but probably as soon as I can't run the latest version of OS X I'll be building myself a Hackintosh.

[grue]

another apple fan...

Consumer support
(many brands motherboard brands do update the firmware of older boards and sometimes add support to new cpus and so on..) is that to complicated to apple NO!

Mac pro's are too expensive to not support them

In another brands with enterprise class hardware, they support old hardware for a good 5 years or more.


an happy consumer will buy more hardware, i will not buy another mac pro ever!
imac or a pc workstation it's a smarter option.



You're out of your mind if you think I'm the typical Apple fanboy; If anything, I'm probably one of their biggest critics, I just do it based on my technical knowledge and ability to think from an alternate perspective.

Do you know if Apple is using EEPROMs that are large enough to hold an EFI64 base? I sure don't.

[nanofrog]

First of all, Apple WOULD be making more money by releasing a firmware update for the first gen Mac Pro. Apple would be able to sell more video cards, LED Displays (with Mini Displayport), and future OS updates.
Maybe, but there could be technical issues, such as the mention of the ROM size of the chip used. If it's too small, then it just won't work. It would mean a new chip, and that's not going to happen (soldered part).

Such a move would also reduce the sales of the new systems, which have a larger profit than upgrades in total figures (lets say the margin % is the same, but which is larger: x % of say $3k vs. x % of $500?). For it to work out, they'd have to be able to sell 6x as many cards as new systems. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if there's enough EFI32 systems ever made to make it viable, and not everyone would do it, making the number of manufactured systems even higher (it's still good for some uses with the newest existing hardware and OS version). I just don't know what the manufacture volume was, but I'm thinking it's not enough, given their marketshare is small, and finding numbers specific to MP systems only, isn't available AFAIK.

I readily admit I don't have a high degree of understanding about the Mac Pro EFI and how hard it would be for some Mac geeks to take the 2008 firmware and re-write the 2006/7 EFI to be 64-bit compatible.
Apple's firmware is proprietary, and to do it without breaking the support for OS X (code that ties the OS to the system) isn't possible without copyright infringement (reverse engineering + modification).

Do you know if Apple is using EEPROMs that are large enough to hold an EFI64 base? I sure don't.
Very good point. It's assumed it is, but that may not actually be the case.

[Nostromo]

i will not buy another mac pro ever!
imac or a pc workstation it's a smarter option.

You seem to confuse things: an iMac is definitely not as flexible as a Mac Pro.

RAM, graphics card, and you don't have the choice of display.

[Max(IT)]

Where does the guy say he uses it for gaming???

I have used macs since i was 10 and have slowly progressed through many versions of imac, mac mini, notebook and finally Mac Pro systems.

I too work in the digital video industry and am too a little pissed at the lack of support for my 2006 MacPro, in terms of graphics and EFI

I only wish i got more than my 3 years out of this system and knowing that soon i wont be able to maximise its usage due to only it supporting 32bit gets on my nerves simply because the same spec Mac Pro today costs more than i paid for my 2006 mac pro.

Due to the swift update calendar that apple now seems to be following since its switch to intel the second hand value of my Mac Pro is too low to sell as the difference of buying a new one is still very high.

This is supposed to be a pro computer, but i would argue that the imac would be abetter buy as its specs seems to outweigh even my mac pro and comes at a lower cost to upgrade every few years.

I don't really see where apple is going with the Mac Pro anymore... seems too busy keeping the consumers happy, instead of an even balance between consumer rich kid and professional.

What a new graphic card can do to improve your productivity in digital video works ? Almost nothing if you already have a 8800 ...
And you keep speaking about "soon an EFI64 firmware would be mandatory" but how much soon ? One year? Maybe more ...
There is NOTHING, aside of gaming at high resolution, you can't do with your 2006 MP, and we are in 2010, and the situation won't change until maybe 2011.
Relax. You seem to' be worried about 3D Mark scores ....

[Max(IT)]

First of all, Apple WOULD be making more money by releasing a firmware update for the first gen Mac Pro. Apple would be able to sell more video cards, LED Displays (with Mini Displayport), and future OS updates.

Second of all, these Mac Pro's are required for games if you want a decent Mac with powerful gaming capabilities. I can't think of a better Mac for games than a Mac Pro. So don't just say they're for Final Cut and Aperture.

I bought my Mac Pro because I wanted the flexibility of expansion. Plus, the Mac Pro is supposed to last longer than most Macs.

Go to the Apple's web site and find out if they advertise the Mac Pro for gaming anywhere. Not? Ok, so wrong choice on your side, dude ...
They use gaming bechmark (and quite old like Quake2) just to compare different graphic solutions of the Mac Pro.
A MP is not a gaming machine and cannot be judged as a gaming machine. It is a workstation and a 2006's MP still is a good one.

[jmggs]

You seem to confuse things: an iMac is definitely not as flexible as a Mac Pro.

but is more affordable

imac is not more flexible but the options of macpro and the price paid... the plus of macpro is the graphics cards (poor offer) more hard drives and PCIe cards nothing more for so expensive machine.

For that price i can by a super hackintosh or a pc workstation.

i don't use mac pro for gaming. i use for work!

[TheSpaz]

Go to the Apple's web site and find out if they advertise the Mac Pro for gaming anywhere. Not? Ok, so wrong choice on your side, dude ...
They use gaming bechmark (and quite old like Quake2) just to compare different graphic solutions of the Mac Pro.
A MP is not a gaming machine and cannot be judged as a gaming machine. It is a workstation and a 2006's MP still is a good one.

Apple says the Mac Pro is for the "Ultimate Gamer"

http://www.apple.com/games/hardware/index.html#ultimate

There. They advertised that the Mac Pro is the best choice for gaming on the Mac platform and they're right. It really is the only choice if you wanna play high demanding games on the Mac. I boot into Windows and my games are smooth as butter (60fps or higher).

[Infrared]

Go to the Apple's web site and find out if they advertise the Mac Pro for gaming anywhere. Not? Ok, so wrong choice on your side, dude ...

*cough*

http://www.apple.com/games/hardware/index.html#ultimate

The Ultimate Gamer

Let’s talk power and expandability. This top-of-the-line Mac Pro
is a gamer’s dream-machine.

[TheSpaz]

*cough*

http://www.apple.com/games/hardware/index.html#ultimate

Hint... look directly above your post ;) :D

[Max(IT)]

Apple says the Mac Pro is for the "Ultimate Gamer"

http://www.apple.com/games/hardware/index.html#ultimate

There. They advertised that the Mac Pro is the best choice for gaming on the Mac platform and they're right. It really is the only choice if you wanna play high demanding games on the Mac. I boot into Windows and my games are smooth as butter (60fps or higher).

*cough*

http://www.apple.com/games/hardware/index.html#ultimate
C'mon ! You're searching in the "GAME SECTION" of the Apple web-site, what do you expect they say: "we have no such hardware" ??? :rolleyes:

Also take a look at the suggested games:
The Sims 3: World Adventures
Guitar Hero World Tour
World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King
SPORE Galactic Adventures
Command and Conquer: Red Alert 3
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
ToCA Race Driver 3
Sid Meier’s Pirates!
Battlestations Midway
Neverwinter Nights 2
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Tomb Raider Anniversary
Need For Speed: Carbon

Everyone half competent could see that these are either old or "light" games, relating to hardware specs.

[Nostromo]

but is more affordable

imac is not more flexible but the options of macpro and the price paid... the plus of macpro is the graphics cards (poor offer) more hard drives and PCIe cards nothing more for so expensive machine.

For that price i can by a super hackintosh or a pc workstation.

i don't use mac pro for gaming. i use for work!

Me, too, I don't game on my Mac.

But for work a Mac Pro is much faster (of course you need to wait for the new Mac Pro in Q1 2010).

Generally, you need to replace an iMac faster. Mine is 2 1/2 years old and its RAM limit and bus speed etc. is seriously already a challenge, while a Mac Pro from the same era would still be quite good to work with.

[Nostromo]

C'mon ! You're searching in the "GAME SECTION" of the Apple web-site, what do you expect they say: "we have no such hardware" ??? :rolleyes:

Also take a look at the suggested games:
The Sims 3: World Adventures
Guitar Hero World Tour
World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King
SPORE Galactic Adventures
Command and Conquer: Red Alert 3
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
ToCA Race Driver 3
Sid Meier’s Pirates!
Battlestations Midway
Neverwinter Nights 2
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Tomb Raider Anniversary
Need For Speed: Carbon

Everyone half competent could see that these are either old or "light" games, relating to hardware specs.

What makes a good gaming machine versus a good workstation like the Mac Pro? (I'm getting a PS3, so it's really rather out of curiosity).

[TheStrudel]

Look, the EFI 32 thing sucks.

Everybody on this subforum will agree with you. We think it's a little frustrating and all the '06 owners got screwed over on it.

But complaining about available graphics cards on this forum is beyond bizarre. Have you bothered looking at all the work The Rominator, Netkas, and Cindori have gone to on the behalf of others to make other options available? What they've accomplished is quite remarkable and worth looking into. Heck, even a lot of '08 owners like myself who had 8800 GTs flashed a 4870 because they made it so doable and it's still a good value proposition.

And even ignoring the graphics card thing for a minute, games aside, is there really anything your Mac Pro can't do yet? Pretty sure it's still a fast machine for all the pro apps written for Mac (and several written for Windows). Most applications still haven't been written to take full advantage of 4 cores yet.

What are you really trying to do? Of all the apps people actually use, many of them can be sped up with improvements in storage (SSDs), RAM, or CPU replacement, all of which can and have been done by people on this forum, who then wrote little walkthroughs.

I'm having a hard time understanding the real complaint here, aside from the "My machine isn't quite as awesome as I wanted it to be." And frankly, I actually think '09 Mac Pro owners have more to complain about there, given the cost of the machines and some of the limitations they were saddled with.

[Muse-Med]

As others have done, I've purchased my first (and only) Mac Pro late 2006. I use it for audio recording/sequencing (with Logic Pro 9) and light to moderate standard DV editing (with Final Cut Pro). I'm also interested in updating the graphics card to my Mac Pro (currently still using the original Nvidia 7300 GT) and, so far, haven't found one that is documented and guaranteed to work with my 2006 Mac Pro. I can't even find a compatible video card at the Apple store.

I'm kind of upset that the new graphics cards are incompatible. Seriously though... how many graphics options did this machine have? Only VERY FEW.

Let's review:

Nvidia 7300 GT
ATI Radeon X1900 XT
Nvidia Quadro FX 4500
Nvidia GeForce 8800GT


. . . i just don't understand apple to sell a so expensive machine with so limited upgrade options and because artificial created limitations just to force users to buy another machine. Hey i am not rich, and no, i don't consider a 2006 a so obsolete machine. (do you guys consider a 2006 Ferrari a old car?)

I use my macpro for FCP, Motion ... and i would like to have a better graphics cards.

It's nice to read that I am not alone in my frustration. I like my 2006 Mac Pro. I just want to make it "better" with a new compatible graphics card.

[Nostromo]

As others have done, I've purchased my first (and only) Mac Pro late 2006. I use it for audio recording/sequencing (with Logic Pro 9) and light to moderate standard DV editing (with Final Cut Pro). I'm also interested in updating the graphics card to my Mac Pro (currently still using the original Nvidia 7300 GT) and, so far, haven't found one that is documented and guaranteed to work with my 2006 Mac Pro. I can't even find a compatible video card at the Apple store.


Have you tried the 7600 GT? I have this one in my 24" iMac, which is from 2007. Should be really low priced, and has twice the amount of RAM.

[Muse-Med]

Have you tried the 7600 GT? I have this one in my 24" iMac, which is from 2007. Should be really low priced, and has twice the amount of RAM.

I'll research it and see if it's compatible with my happy 2006 Mac Pro.

Thanks! :)

[TheSpaz]

Have you tried the 7600 GT? I have this one in my 24" iMac, which is from 2007. Should be really low priced, and has twice the amount of RAM.

I'll research it and see if it's compatible with my happy 2006 Mac Pro.

Thanks! :)

Doesn't exist. Don't even bother looking it up. The cards they put in iMacs are not the same as the ones they put in real desktops.

Here's what the 7600GT card looks like from the iMac: http://www.welovemacs.com/6614180.html Haha!

[Muse-Med]

Doesn't exist. Don't even bother looking it up. The cards they put in iMacs are not the same as the ones they put in real desktops.

Here's what the 7600GT card looks like from the iMac: http://www.welovemacs.com/6614180.html Haha!

Well. . . there you go. Appreciate the info, Mr. TheSpaz. :)

With regards to the "Haha!". Gotta love humor! ;)

[Max(IT)]

What makes a good gaming machine versus a good workstation like the Mac Pro? (I'm getting a PS3, so it's really rather out of curiosity).

In a "gaming machine" (and keep in mind that in my opinion a computer it's a gaming machine no more, and I switched to consoles years ago) you basically need a decent cpu, the right amount of memory and the best vga card you can afford.

A workstation is made for ..... well ... work :D
So you need some "extras" that go beyond the simple performance, like reliability and accessibility ...

A Mac pro is definitely a workstation, not a gamestation, although you can play on a mac pro maybe better than on a dedicated computer (for a while)

[TheSpaz]

So I got to thinking...

I wonder if the 2008 Mac Pro has the same fate as the 2006 Mac Pro. In 3 more years, is it going to be compatible with the latest graphics cards? The newest Mac OS? I wonder if Apple just goes and makes their computers obsolete on purpose after X amount of years.

It'll be funny... a few years from now, the people who bought 2008 Mac Pros are going to be in the same boat we're in right now. They're going to wonder why the latest graphics cards are listed as 2010-2012 Mac Pros only.

I'm pissed that Apple had to go and switch to Mini Displayport because that seriously limited the compatibility for buying an Apple branded display for my computer. Yeah, I wanted the new 24" LED display really bad and I was saving for one... then my ATI 4870 broke after only 6 months and Apple refused to replace it because I was using it in a Mac Pro that wasn't certified for the ATI 4870 (with the Mini Displayport). There go my dreams of getting an LED display. If I really wanted one, I'd have have to spend $400 on a new 4870 and then $900 on the display and even then, there's no guarantee that the 4870 will last for more than 6 months. I don't want to have to keep on buying 4870's every time they die just so that I can use my LED display.

[TheSpaz]

In a "gaming machine" (and keep in mind that in my opinion a computer it's a gaming machine no more, and I switched to consoles years ago) you basically need a decent cpu, the right amount of memory and the best vga card you can afford.

A workstation is made for ..... well ... work :D
So you need some "extras" that go beyond the simple performance, like reliability and accessibility ...

A Mac pro is definitely a workstation, not a gamestation, although you can play on a mac pro maybe better than on a dedicated computer (for a while)

What is your deal? I didn't buy my Mac Pro for a dedicated gaming machine. I bought the Mac Pro because it can double as a powerful workstation AND to get the Maximum game performance. I HATE low framerates. My MacBook Pro 13" sucks for playing 3D games on like Call of Duty and Left for Dead... it's so choppy I can hardly stand playing on it. My Mac Pro however, is smooth as silk (just as long as I'm playing in Windows 7).

So there you have it. It's a Mac, it's a PC, it's a workstation, it's a gamestation. It's EVERYTHING and it's the ONLY Mac to get if you're into hardcore gaming (with high FPS). If I bought an iMac today, after a couple of years, the newest games would run like crap on it because I can't swap out the video card, but with a Mac Pro I CAN change the video card to keep up with the new games.

Also, I love having a separate monitor from the computer (and don't even say anything about the Mac Mini, those will not run games any better than a MacBook).

[nanofrog]

So I got to thinking...

I wonder if the 2008 Mac Pro has the same fate as the 2006 Mac Pro. In 3 more years, is it going to be compatible with the latest graphics cards? The newest Mac OS? I wonder if Apple just goes and makes their computers obsolete on purpose after X amount of years.

It'll be funny... a few years from now, the people who bought 2008 Mac Pros are going to be in the same boat we're in right now. They're going to wonder why the latest graphics cards are listed as 2010-2012 Mac Pros only.
Possible, as they could:
1. Go with 128bit firmware in say 2011 (at the earliest, as the 2010's will be EFI64)
2. Firmware specification may change (i.e. swap to UEFI 2.1 for example)

That said, it's expected the EFI64 will continue for a bit longer. But who knows... :p

[Nostromo]

Well. . . there you go.

Too bad it doesn't work.

As the 7300GT (that you have) is the standard video card that Apple put into iMacs. I assumed there would be a 7600GT Mac Pro version, too.

Here's a thread that recommends the 8800GT to put into your Mac Pro:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=666976

[Nostromo]

In a "gaming machine" (and keep in mind that in my opinion a computer it's a gaming machine no more, and I switched to consoles years ago) you basically need a decent cpu, the right amount of memory and the best vga card you can afford.

A workstation is made for ..... well ... work :D
So you need some "extras" that go beyond the simple performance, like reliability and accessibility ...

A Mac pro is definitely a workstation, not a gamestation, although you can play on a mac pro maybe better than on a dedicated computer (for a while)

The Mac Pro has not only a decent, but a great CPU, you can load it with RAM, and you can put a good video card into it.

I have the impression that a good workstation is ranked above, not below, a good gaming machine.

So a Mac Pro should be find for those who want to play games.

But those who buy a Mac Pro usually buy it for photography, design, video editing, graphics work, etc.

I would suppose that a software like 3ds max is more demanding on a computer than any game.

[nanofrog]

I have the impression that a good workstation is ranked above, not below, a good gaming machine.
Generally speaking, this is the case. Particularly with PC's. But it's a bit different with MP's, as there's few cards that can work in an EFI environment, and those are consumer cards, some of which are gaming units.

The Quadro 4800 Mac Ed. is usable in the EFI64 based systems, occured in spite of Apple since it was developed by a 3rd party (not a custom design for Apple).

[alphaod]

(do you guys consider a 2006 Ferrari a old car?)


You can't compare a computer to a car in terms of years, but only in terms of a generation. So if you wanted to compare to a car, then you'd need to look at a car that's 4 generations old and the answer would be yes it's old.

[nanofrog]

You can't compare a computer to a car in terms of years, but only in terms of a generation. So if you wanted to compare to a car, then you'd need to look at a car that's 4 generations old and the answer would be yes it's old.
:eek: That would be older than some members.... :D :p

[Muse-Med]

Too bad it doesn't work.

As the 7300GT (that you have) is the standard video card that Apple put into iMacs. I assumed there would be a 7600GT Mac Pro version, too.

Here's a thread that recommends the 8800GT to put into your Mac Pro:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=666976

What a difference 9 months makes!

The postings on the thread provided here are from March, 2009. I read the thread and followed that links on it to research the 8800GT video card. None of the links work. When I searched the 8800 GT at the Other World Computer web site, the search came up blank.

It's almost as if that 9 months is like 9 centuries in the computer world. What was once a choice of purchase with video cards in March is now obsolete in December.

I could live with the 3+ year old video card in my Mac Pro 1,1. It works. But (and this is a big "butt" in my mind). . . BUT what happens if/when this video card burns out as some do??? Do I purchase a new freakin' computer?? Mac Pros ain't cheap! (And I like my Mac Pro with its expandability, and despite the inability to put in a new video card.)

Thank you, Nostromo, for helping. Seriously. Your time and effort is sincerely appreciated. :)

[Infrared]

Hint... look directly above your post ;) :D

Your post hadn't appeared when I was composing mine! :)

[Max(IT)]

The Mac Pro has not only a decent, but a great CPU, you can load it with RAM, and you can put a good video card into it.

I have the impression that a good workstation is ranked above, not below, a good gaming machine.
absolutely correct !
A good workstation is waaay above a gaming machine, but not necessarily for the performance.

So a Mac Pro should be find for those who want to play games.
At the moment of the purchase it surely is.
The problem is that in a couple of year it could be an ideal gaming machine no more, but it can still be a very good workstation.
DO you understand what I mean ?



I would suppose that a software like 3ds max is more demanding on a computer than any game.
Possible, but not necessarily.
It's not the software itself, but the project you're working on it.

[Nostromo]

What a difference 9 months makes!

The postings on the thread provided here are from March, 2009. I read the thread and followed that links on it to research the 8800GT video card. None of the links work. When I searched the 8800 GT at the Other World Computer web site, the search came up blank.

It's almost as if that 9 months is like 9 centuries in the computer world. What was once a choice of purchase with video cards in March is now obsolete in December.

I could live with the 3+ year old video card in my Mac Pro 1,1. It works. But (and this is a big "butt" in my mind). . . BUT what happens if/when this video card burns out as some do??? Do I purchase a new freakin' computer?? Mac Pros ain't cheap! (And I like my Mac Pro with its expandability, and despite the inability to put in a new video card.)

Thank you, Nostromo, for helping. Seriously. Your time and effort is sincerely appreciated. :)

You are welcome, and I wish you luck with your video card search.

There must be a solution.

Ask at the Apple "Genius" bar.

I usually don't like eBay, but it's a good way to get "older" stuff, sometimes at a very good price.

Here is a link to an online place I found googling. There may be others, and better ones.

http://www.dvwarehouse.com/Mac-Pro-Video-Card-c-253_256_5144.html&pltid=3c5d0821a1399ec8a1a254e073019add

I don't have the exact specification of your Mac Pro, but take a look.