Apple TV - "Worst Gadgets of the Decade"

[strike1555]

I've been saying it all along. Apple TV is junk. Thank you Gizmodo for confirming it.


Apple TV is one of the few black marks on Apple's record this decade. Unfortunately, their walled garden approach to a media center just doesn't do enough things right to make it a standout product. The recent 3.0 update was the most recent disappointment, especially since there are many great devices that each do a better job with most of its video functionality, including the Xbox 360, the LG BD390 Blu-ray player, the Roku box, TiVo HD and the Asus O!Play.

http://gizmodo.com/5431759/worst-gadgets-gallery/

[glennsan]

While I do understand that there are things that could be added to the ATV to make it better I would not consider it in this worst product category. I know its advantages and limitations and am perfectly happy with what it can do and know how to take advantage of it.

Trying to get a product to perform in a manner that it was not designed for will doom it to failure every time.

Glennsan

[jaw04005]

I love my Apple TV, but the fact that it can't even playback iTunes 720p videos consistently without performance issues is disheartening. It's in desperate need of a processor, RAM, hard drive controller and video card upgrade.

The Apple TV is an oddball product that suffers from a lack of interest/direction from Apple's management. At this point, I'm not sure which executive is responsible for it, but I hope they're mocked everyday on the Cupertino campus.

However, I would rank it higher than some of Apple's other products including Time Capsule and the iPod hi-fi boom box. Both should have been killed in their planning stages and never put on the market.

[macrazee]

Agreed. AppleTV might not be the blockbuster other Apple products are (partly because of the 'hobby' tag and limited promotion) but calling it a failure or one of the worst gadgets of the decade is ludicrous. It's a fantastic device when used as intended, allowing iTunes to come in to the bedroom or living room or what-have-you.

[SteveE]

I've got to say that I absolutely LOVE mine ... so does the rest of the family. I couldn't imagine life without it now tbh.

Sure, it can't play MKV's or AVI's - but I don't want it to. I've had other streamers both DNLA based and proprietary software based (stand-up Pinnacle Showcenter) in the past and all failed the primary test .... my wife and two kids. When I started looking at streaming, I started with everything based around AVI's, but I've now settled on iTunes and M4V as a DB for all my media and this makes the *perfect* compliment to it.

It's definitely NOT for everyone, and I can completely understand why some don't like it; it's a choice thing. If you don't like iTunes, you're probably not going to like this. It's not without it's interface faults, but it's sooooo much easier and slicker than other products I've tried.

Happy ATV user here!

[SinisterJack]

I think Giz is pretty much correct - for the US market at least. Netflix doesn't operate in the UK meaning that the only viable way of renting movies online is via iTunes. I got my Apple TV last week, the tipping point being the closure of my local rental store.

[davidjearly]

However, I would rank it higher than some of Apple's other products including Time Capsule and the iPod hi-fi boom box. Both should have been killed in their planning stages and never put on the market.

And what's wrong with the Time Capsule?

[netdog]

Since getting my AppleTV at release, I have disconnected my satellite dish, saving me lots of money, and this is now my sole source of television (barring F1, the news and Top Gear via the Internet along with the ever so occasional BluRay or DVD).

It has saved me a lot of money, already paying for itself, and I still see all the TV that I want to see.

It also works great on my network and with my other devices.

I couldn't care less what Engadget thinks. AppleTV is the BEST device that has ever been attached to my television.

FWIW, at the time the iPod HiFi was also a really nice device.

[JoeG4]

I had an iPod Hi-Fi, and was basically paid to use it for 2 years. Honestly, I loved that thing. It was overall better looking and better sounding than anything the competition made, albeit costing 3x more. The most recent iPhones and touches don't even work right with it :(

It was a good dock though, I would've been happy to go for another - had they made the dock connector stronger. It was .. great! Also, not worth $350.

I love the time capsule too, problem with it is it was terrible designed. They overheat and die after about 16 months, that's insane!

[chill.]

Since getting my AppleTV at release, I have disconnected my satellite dish, saving me lots of money, and this is now my sole source of television (barring F1, the news and Top Gear via the Internet along with the ever so occasional BluRay or DVD).

It has saved me a lot of money, already paying for itself, and I still see all the TV that I want to see.

It also works great on my network and with my other devices.

I couldn't care less what Engadget thinks. AppleTV is the BEST device that has ever been attached to my television.

FWIW, at the time the iPod HiFi was also a really nice device.

it's gizmodo not engadget

the walkman is a great device for listening to music, but cd players and mp3 players do the same job with more benefits. that is the point that the article is making. ATV may be the best device you've ever tried, but first among one isn't saying much.

[Cave Man]

I also think the ATV is pretty decent. Certainly not among the worst of the decade.

[SwiftLives]

I think it's ahead of its time. Mainstream physical media is on its way out - it's much cheaper (i.e. higher profit margin for studios) to deliver it digitally. But obviously, consumers aren't there yet. There are a few things holding it back - not the least of which are a lack of affordable bandwidth and the studios' reluctance to give Apple too much distribution power.

If Apple's subscription idea takes off (which I think is in doubt now that Comcast bought NBCU), it would certainly give the ATV a significant boost.

[mhdena]

Not only do I like mine and not expect it to be a replacement for any & everything related to tv veiwing, but I would predict in 3-5 yrs Apple will be the one standing (and atv still working) and several of these streaming devices not heard of 2-3 yrs ago won't be heard of then either.:eek:

[FSMBP]

AppleTV is among Apple's worst hardware products.

It would make much more sense to buy a used Mac Mini and use Front Row or a third party Media Center app. At least with a Mini you have a good DVD player too (no need for a DVD player and another device).

Yeah you would pay more for a Mini but it doubles as a computer and can do a hell of a lot more than an AppleTV. You can rip all your DVDs (complete with Bonus features) on to it.

Plus, if you enable "Sharing" you can view other videos from other Macs/PCs at your home.

[Dont Hurt Me]

True a device called TV that cant do tv? a poor device indeed im surprised apple is still selling this thing.

[jaw04005]

And what's wrong with the Time Capsule?

It's a ticking time bomb of data failure. With its dead power supply issues and the fact that the hard drive is not recoverable, it's simply a bad product.

A router with a sealed hard drive is never a good idea, and the fact that Apple only offers you two service choices upon failure - keep your failed Time Capsule and save your data (by opening the device up to recover data and/or run disk repair tools on the internal hard drive) or replace the entire unit and lose your data is unacceptable.

Additionally, there's no basic Disk Utility functions like repair disk or repair disk permissions available to run on the internal Time Capsule drive. So, simple disk errors (like a few failed Time Machine attempts) can corrupt your entire drive and require you to erase your backups and start over.

I firmly believe Time Capsule was only put on the market because Apple couldn't get the AirPort Extreme Base Station to securely write Time Machine data to AirDisk drives (like originally announced by Steve Jobs as a feature of 10.5 Leopard during WWDC '06).

[glennsan]

I love my Apple TV, but the fact that it can't even playback iTunes 720p videos consistently without performance issues is disheartening. It's in desperate need of a processor, RAM, hard drive controller and video card upgrade.

The Apple TV is an oddball product that suffers from a lack of interest/direction from Apple's management. At this point, I'm not sure which executive is responsible for it, but I hope they're mocked everyday on the Cupertino campus.

However, I would rank it higher than some of Apple's other products including Time Capsule and the iPod hi-fi boom box. Both should have been killed in their planning stages and never put on the market.

I have not noticed any issues playing back 720p videos on my ATV. Are you streaming it? I have not tried that so far as I don't have a huge collection and they all fit on the ATV.

Glennsan

[NightStorm]

I'm fairly convinced the people who write such articles have a) never used an appletv for an extended period of time (ie. A one week review period), b) don't get what it's purpose is (get your iTunes library into your living room), or c) have lots of content from "unknown origins" and are mad that the appletv doesn't fit this lifestyle.

While it has it's flaws, I think the current platform could be saved by simply updating the codebase to 10.6 and extending the hardware acceleration capabilities of the nvidia gpu it already uses. At the very least, this should allow smooth playback of 720p content (although I think simply buffeting more before starting playback would help as well).

I'm the happy owner of two appletvs who has leveraged it (along handbrake of course) to eliminate my cable bill, buy season passes of the shows I want (which saves me from buying them later of DVD/bluray), and to eliminate clutter from hundreds of DVD, hddvd, and bluray cases from my living room.

[ljonesj]

your right of course i for myself choose the mini but i am thinking of in the near future getting an apple tv for my parents and taking my moms dvds that are very expensive and riping them to play on the apple tv

[carlgo]

ATV is about the best thing out there, not the worst. Everyone I have shown it to is very impressed.

Some people would just rather have the most complex geeky interface possible. The more crap and wires they can clutter up the world with, the happier they are.

And their dream of being connected to the world only by selected movies and podcasts, all somehow gotten for free (stolen), is pretty odd and unrealistic.

Apple, as others have pointed out, should have called it something else because it is a player, not a TV and it just confuses people. Clearly Apple needs to demonstrate how it works and what it does. Jobs calling it a hobby was really quite odd and very misleading.

Time Machine is a very useful device as well in terms of its function, but if indeed it is an overheating and failure-prone device, then shame on Apple. That is simply a ripoff and they should make amends.

[fpnc]

Any product (like the Apple TV) that has brought in $1.5 billion in revenue shouldn't be termed a "black mark" or "worst gadget of the decade" (revenue figure based upon recent estimates of nearly 7 million units sold). Just because it didn't have the same level of success as the iPod or iPhone is no reason to claim that it is a failed product. In Apple's Q1/2009 financial conference call it was reported that Apple TV sales were up three fold over Q1/2008. If those rates continued throughout 2009 then that could mean that the Apple TV has had a very good year.

I'm sure that there are a lot of companies that would love to have that level of sales success even if it was their only product.

[Eraserhead]

Any product (like the Apple TV) that has brought in $1.5 billion in revenue

Source?

[kmiahali]

If Apple advertised it correctly when it was first released, it would have been a bigger hit. Apple will most likely eliminate it over the next two years, and replace it with an actual TV with this device built in. After all, they already have 27 inch iMacs, whats to say, they won't just make it bigger, and put the AppleTV device inside. If this was to happen, Apple could upgrade the Remote app on the iPhone to incorporate their TV, to browse channels. TV Guide could be included, iTunes videos could be purchased, similiar to on demand, except you can save it forever. Upgrades could come via built in WiFi. The possibilites are endless. Any more ideas anyone?

[Eraserhead]

The problem is that its just missing too many features, it needs several out of the following to be good:


A DVD drive
Ability to record live TV
Ability to rip DVD's
Ability to play video content you mysteriously have on your PC.
Ability to work with S-video/SCART/the yellow video input cable.
A 320GB+ hard drive
Ability to use iPlayer/Hulu etc

[fpnc]

Source?
Just search the internet for sales number estimates on the Apple TV. Nearly all of the analysts have shown sales in excess of one million units during each year, with 2009 and perhaps even 2008 in the multiple million range. After that it is simple math -- let's say six million total units (which is on the low side of all of the estimates I've found).

6M units x $229 (minimum price, average sales price is probably higher) = $1.4 billion

Here are some links:

http://www.ipodobserver.com/ipo/article/Piper_Jaffray_Estimates_2.9M_Apple_TV_Sales_in_CY2008/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_TV

[AAPLaday]

The apple tv is a waste of time in it's current form IMO. HD content from iTunes pales next to bluray. I'd rather stream my content to a ps3

[Eraserhead]

Just search the internet for sales number estimates on the Apple TV. Nearly all of the analysts have shown sales in excess of one million units during each year, with 2009 and perhaps even 2008 in the multiple million range. After that it is simple math -- let's say six million total units (which is on the low side of all of the estimates I've found).

6M units x $229 (minimum price, average sales price is probably higher) = $1.4 billion

Here are some links:

http://www.ipodobserver.com/ipo/article/Piper_Jaffray_Estimates_2.9M_Apple_TV_Sales_in_CY2008/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_TV

Fair enough.

[GreatDrok]

The problem is that its just missing too many features, it needs several out of the following to be good:


A DVD drive
Ability to record live TV
Ability to rip DVD's
Ability to play video content you mysteriously have on your PC.
Ability to work with S-video/SCART/the yellow video input cable.
A 320GB+ hard drive
Ability to use iPlayer/Hulu etc


What you're describing here already exists on the market. It is called a 'computer' and comes with a DVD (or even Blu-ray) drive, TV card to allow it to record live TV, software that will rip DVDs and has other software that can run any video file you might have. The output of the graphics card has the necessary connections to plug into a monitor, TV or whatever and a large internal storage as well as the ability to play iPlayer or Hulu content.

Why on *EARTH* would Apple TV need to replicate a computer? The whole point of the thing is to *NOT* be a computer. Capability brings complexity so to reduce complexity you need to reduce capability.

I have the following equipment currently plugged into my TV - TiVo, Freeview HD, Apple TV, Blu-ray player, LD/DVD player, SVHS VCR, Xbox 360 with HD DVD drive, Wii and a PS2.

The most used is the TiVo but right after that comes the Apple TV. It is convenient and simple to use just like the TiVo and my wife and son love it. I disagree that the HD output isn't good quality. I've got Blu-ray and HD DVD and play them along with the ATV HD rentals through a 100" HD projection system and I think the ATV rentals are pretty good. Blu-ray is definitely better but for a quick HD rental the ATV is very good.

[Eraserhead]

What you're describing here already exists on the market. It is called a 'computer' and comes with a DVD (or even Blu-ray) drive, TV card to allow it to record live TV, software that will rip DVDs and has other software that can run any video file you might have.

But that software doesn't all have a consistent 10 foot interface on a PC, and besides I don't want to spend enough money to buy a PC that is small and quiet and has all that functionality.

TiVo, Freeview HD, Apple TV, Blu-ray player, LD/DVD player, SVHS VCR, Xbox 360 with HD DVD drive, Wii and a PS2.

So 10 boxes :eek:. Wouldn't you like to slim that down to just the games consoles and an Apple TV?

[GreatDrok]

But that software doesn't all have a consistent 10 foot interface on a PC, and besides I don't want to spend enough money to buy a PC that is small and quiet and has all that functionality.

I'm sure someone could do it but it isn't going to cost what the ATV costs. More likely it will cost the same if not more than a regular computer.

So 10 boxes :eek:. Wouldn't you like to slim that down to just the games consoles and an Apple TV?
It all goes through a Yamaha AV amp with HDMI switching and upconversion. This drives both the LCD TV and my DLP projector. I really need to do something about the wiring which is a nightmare. I would love to get all the media onto the ATV but I don't have sufficient disc capacity available or time to do all the encodes to convert my large library of tapes, CDs, LDs, DVDs, HD DVDs and BDs. I have converted much of the most watched stuff and have around 600GB sitting on iTunes streaming to my ATV but that is mostly TV shows or films for my son to watch. At the end of the day, once you have a large range of formats it is difficult to get rid of the boxes if you still want access to that material.

[BlizzardBomb]

In the UK, the value you're getting is horrible. You could either buy a 160GB AppleTV for £219 or an Xbox 360 or a PS3 with a Hard Drive and with bundled games and controllers and the ability to stream movies anyway.

Seeing as AppleTV doesn't need an amazing graphics card/ processor and doesn't have a DVD drive, I don't see how dropping it to £150 should be an issue.

[Bye Bye Baby]

I really like mine. Can't agree.

[GreatDrok]

In the UK, the value you're getting is horrible. You could either buy a 160GB AppleTV for £219 or an Xbox 360 or a PS3 with a Hard Drive and with bundled games and controllers and the ability to stream movies anyway.

Seeing as AppleTV doesn't need an amazing graphics card/ processor and doesn't have a DVD drive, I don't see how dropping it to £150 should be an issue.

Both the Xbox 360 and PS3 cost more to make than they sell for and thus lose their respective companies money. Contrast those with the Wii which is technically on a similar level to the ATV and sells for similar money.

[tom1971]

I love my AppleTV

- play non iTunes videos
- attach external HD
- use Firefox
- Send tweets (http://bit.ly/aTVitter)
- use bittorrent (http://patchstick.wikispaces.com/Bittorrent)
- use openvpn
- and much more...

[colinmack]

Couldn't disagree more with the article - one of the best products I've bought, over a year without cable and haven't missed a beat, and now have much more flexible access to all of my family's content (music, movies, TV, phone + AV cable when away, AirTunes, etc.).

Of course it could happily do with a hardware bump so it can compete better on specs (1080 native, 720p/30), and would be amazing if they extended the app store to the device (at the same time they extend it to the oh-sure-it's-coming-Mr-Snuffleupagus-tablet), but even as is I love it. Have already had 7 friends (and counting) buy one, just by letting them walk into the TV room and play around for a few minutes.

I'm firmly convinced that those who don't appreciate the Apple TV simply don't understand how it should really be used (the old "there are two kinds of people - those who love me, and those who don't know me yet") :cool:

[Eraserhead]

I love my AppleTV

- play non iTunes videos
- attach external HD
- use Firefox
- Send tweets (http://bit.ly/aTVitter)
- use bittorrent (http://patchstick.wikispaces.com/Bittorrent)
- use openvpn
- and much more...

Yeah but you have to hack it to do that stuff.

Both the Xbox 360 and PS3 cost more to make than they sell for and thus lose their respective companies money.

I don't think that's true anymore: PS3 (http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/31/ps3-manufacturing-costs-down-70-percent-strange-it-doesnt-fee/), Xbox 360 (http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=71998).

[tom1971]

Yeah but you have to hack it to do that stuff.

But that is no big deal.
Either you do it yourself with free tools or you use a commercial product, such as patchstick.ca

[Eraserhead]

But that is no big deal.
Either you do it yourself with free tools or you use a commercial product, such as patchstick.ca

That's great if you know what you're doing and it does work well if you have someone good to keep it up and running, the thing is its still not easy for non-technical users. The reason the iPod and iPhone do well is that you don't have to know how to do that stuff.

[BlizzardBomb]

Both the Xbox 360 and PS3 cost more to make than they sell for and thus lose their respective companies money. Contrast those with the Wii which is technically on a similar level to the ATV and sells for similar money.

While the still PS3 does, the 360 doesn't any more. The Wii makes a ridiculous amount of profit per console sold because the parts inside are incredibly low-end, but it still has an optical drive which the AppleTV lacks (not that it should need one) and again comes with bundled goods where as the AppleTV only comes with a remote.

Apple also makes additional money on the rental and movie side so even if they only sold it at break-even (which judging by the parts inside would be around £100 if that), they would still spin a healthy profit on most AppleTVs sold.

[ljonesj]

i wanted something that could play all media formats, hook to my 42in tv, play music and let me play around with osx, and allow me to carry it around even thou without a screen to a friends house and play world of warcraft so i choose a mac mini but the apple tv is good for the ones that dont need that

[Nermal]

I have the following equipment currently plugged into my TV - TiVo, Freeview HD

Why do you have both a TiVo and a Freeview box?

[macrazee]

I firmly believe Apple TV will be an integral part of Apple's forthcoming subscription television/content services. I think this is the year (2010) of the next generation Apple TV and Apple will use all the feedback from this "hobby" to design a device truly worthy of the logo and markedly better than the current version of the product.

That said, I don't have many qualms with the Apple TV, as I stated earlier. It does exactly what it is *supposed* to do -- extend your iTunes library to the living room or the bedroom, garage, etc. It was NEVER meant to be a full-fledged computer experience, so those whining about not being able to surf the net or what have you...come to grip with reality please. (And even that is possible with a little hackery :P )

[xPismo]

I'm always surprised how people dislike the Apple TV.

I dig my Apple TV -- mostly for being so simple. Anyone can pick up the remote and use it. That said I have modded it (320Gb HD, atv version of patchstick software) and now its still dead simple and is also everything I was looking for in a replacement for my Cable box, DVD player, and TiVo. So:

The problem is that its just missing too many features, it needs several out of the following to be good:


A DVD drive
Ability to record live TV
Ability to rip DVD's
Ability to play video content you mysteriously have on your PC.
Ability to work with S-video/SCART/the yellow video input cable.
A 320GB+ hard drive
Ability to use iPlayer/Hulu etc


My computer - hardware i already have - does most of this for me (DVD playback, rip, TV recording using EyeTV, h.264 encoding). Why do I want it in my AppleTV too?

That's great if you know what you're doing and it does work well if you have someone good to keep it up and running, the thing is its still not easy for non-technical users. The reason the iPod and iPhone do well is that you don't have to know how to do that stuff.

Which is what the current Apple TV does, it works just like an iPod or iPhone by living in the walled garden of iTunes. . . I could set it up at my parents house and know they would be able to use it immediately.

You want it to do all the above and still be dead simple for the non-geek to use?

[Cave Man]

It does exactly what it is *supposed* to do -- extend your iTunes library to the living room or the bedroom, garage, etc.

Except that it doesn't. There are a lot of videos that play fine in iTunes but won't play on the Apple TV.

[uraniumwilly]

It's been easy enough to use. I'm happy with it. I'm also happy supporting this device that leads to whatever's coming next.

[trip1ex]

I think Gizmodo is correct in that it is Apple's worst-selling product in the ipod and mac family.

But the ATV is great at what it does. Get your iTunes content to your TV. Nothing else does that better.

and nothing else gives the consumer as much movie, tv and music selection as far as I know. And is as easy to use.

IN the Gizmodo list I think the ATV compares sort of to the Segway. A device that is nice, but hasn't found a much of a market per se. Segway was alot more hyped though. Apple has downplayed the ATV since the beginning.

[godslabrat]

I disagree with the list in the sense that most of the other products were significantly flawed (AppleTV isn't- underspecced!=flawed) or were total failures in the marketplace (AppleTV isn't- "worst selling product"!="massive money pit"). So no, I don't think AppleTV should be compared with FlexPlay DVDs or ATRAC-only music players. For the same reason, I also think that Sony's MemoryStick line probably does not deserve to be on the list.

AppleTV does warrant a fair amount of criticism. The industry is at a point now where the machine really does need to do more in order to compete well. However, a strong product needing improvement is a far cry from being the "Worst Product of the Decade".

[paduck]

The absence of a single product makes the Gizmodo list somewhat suspect - where, oh where, is the Microsoft Zune? It is certainly comprable to what Gizmodo is saying about Apple TV, except that Microsoft pushed it hard and is losing a mint on it.

I like my Apple TV fine. There are plenty of things it could be that it isn't, but it is what it is supposed to be - an iPod for your TV. I use it so my kids don't ruin all the DVDs. It's great for that. Plus, I have rented and purchased a few movies online. It's a nice interface for digital content without swapping disks, etc.

I don't think it has been as successful as Apple had originally hoped - but the iPod wasn't an instant hit either. The inability to encode DVDs direct in iTunes is a problem that hinders Apple TV. There is no real way around that since digital movies and digital music are treated differently for digital copyright.

I've long maintained a couple of things about Apple TV - first is that Apple stays in the market to maintain talent and experience in an area that they think may be "the next big thing." By incrementally improving Apple TV, they stay current in the technology and the licensing business so that they will not ever have to start from zero if someone finds a successful model - or if they happen upon it themselves.

Second, Apple's model has long been focused on a single home computer with your media library shared amongst many other devices (iPods and Apple TVs). The problem is that with more people going to laptops or there being multiple computer houses, the need for centralized storage not tied to a specific computer is becoming a necessity. An Apple Home Media Server is the logical answer. Store all your music and video there and let it stream out to your various boxes. The new sharing features in iTunes is a step in that direction, but not a complete one. Apple likes its closed boxes and a Home Media Server without some sort of backup capability is problematic. That is probably something they are trying to wrap their minds around philosophically. They are also trying to figure out how much of a market there is for it and the appropriate price point (hint, something less than a Mac Mini is probably what they are thinking). So my theory is that Apple in 2011 will have some sort of integrated home system for desktops, laptops and TVs. If they can consolidate that home server with Apple TV, that would be ideal. At least if I were in the Apple product marketing division...

[paduck]

AppleTV does warrant a fair amount of criticism. The industry is at a point now where the machine really does need to do more in order to compete well. However, a strong product needing improvement is a far cry from being the "Worst Product of the Decade".

Apple TV is most certainly overdue for an upgrade. The lack of 1080p HD is a legitimate criticism at this point and the hardware just can't handle it. The reliance on PATA HDDs is dated, although Apple probably has a good deal on the ones they are getting. People calling for Blu-ray, direct encoding, etc. don't understand the product - it is supposed to function in concert with a PC. If you have a PC, then you don't need AppleTV to do all those things. Plus, Apple hasn't adopted Blu-ray for any of its own computers yet, so they aren't going to slap that thing into AppleTV. DVR is an interesting view since that is not something PCs do by themselves. Plus, the AppleTV is supposed to be right there beside the cable/antenna connection. Why not let it be a TiVO? Probably a horsepower and programming issue really, but the ATV could be the vector back to your desktop (see above about Home Media Server). Still, it goes against the Apple model of buying content from iTunes...

[alent1234]

And what's wrong with the Time Capsule?

it's a glorified cron job runner, or whatever the backup software in UNIX is called.

[tom1971]

That's great if you know what you're doing and it does work well if you have someone good to keep it up and running, the thing is its still not easy for non-technical users. The reason the iPod and iPhone do well is that you don't have to know how to do that stuff.

I disagree. At least the patchstick.ca solution is very easy to use and understand and can also be used by non-technical users.

[slashjunior]

So 10 boxes :eek:. Wouldn't you like to slim that down to just the games consoles and an Apple TV?

Or just the PS3. The PS3 does everything the AppleTV does and more.

[korowa]

It's definitely NOT for everyone, and I can completely understand why some don't like it; it's a choice thing. If you don't like iTunes, you're probably not going to like this. It's not without it's interface faults, but it's sooooo much easier and slicker than other products I've tried.

I'm with Steve here.. this product is meant to fit into the "iTunes 'ecosystem'"

For the price, I've got no issues with my ATV; the kids watch their iTunes purchases on the big screen with it and I listen to CD-quality playlists.

I prefer playing music through the ATV than gaming consoles .. as the ATV is noiseless.

I really feel the future is downloads so I can't see the need for an optical drive.

I have not watched any HD content as yet (720p) so I can't comment on that.

Although from the TV programs I have watched, the quality of the sound and video can vary widely.. I would say this has more to do with the master that the studio encoded from.

If they 're going to improve the resolution (ie 1080p) capabilities .. they will probably have to look at better compression codecs to maintain d/load speeds as well.??

[Eraserhead]

You want it to do all the above and still be dead simple for the non-geek to use?

It should be reasonably possible.

A DVD drive

Just needs a physical DVD/BluRay drive and a menu option - maybe on the "my media" screen - and to auto-start when you insert a DVD.

Ability to record live TV

Just needs a menu option.

Ability to rip DVD's

This was kinda a joke as they can't do this in the US without breaking the DMCA.

Ability to play video content you mysteriously have on your PC.

Just needs a default installation of Perian.

Ability to work with S-video/SCART/the yellow video input cable.

Just needs one extra output port on the back (or the removal of component and adding this instead).

A 320GB+ hard drive

Just needs a bigger Hard Drive as standard.

Ability to use iPlayer/Hulu etc

Just needs a menu option for Internet TV or something - maybe they could stick Youtube in this category.

And I did say that they didn't have to do all of the things I wanted for it to sell better ;).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Or just the PS3. The PS3 does everything the AppleTV does and more.

You could do that, but how easy is the PS3 to setup like that. Does it "just work"?

I disagree. At least the patchstick.ca solution is very easy to use and understand and can also be used by non-technical users.

That looks good actually.

[GreatDrok]

It should be reasonably possible.

Just needs a physical DVD/BluRay drive and a menu option - maybe on the "my media" screen - and to auto-start when you insert a DVD.



And what region would the drive be? The main reason I rarely if ever use the DVD drive in my computer is because of the region locking. I have too many discs from all over the world that play fine in my dedicated BD/DVD player but not my computer. You can bet that any drive that gets fitted to a computer will be much more locked down than a standalone player. So no, drop the DVD drive.


Just needs a menu option.


TV standards throughout the world are different and getting TV guide data is sometimes tricky. For a computer, the EyeTV does a decent job although I still can't get guide data without some nasty workarounds. Nope, drop that.


This was kinda a joke as they can't do this in the US without breaking the DMCA.


Indeed, and since the DVD drive would be region locked it wouldn't work as well as a computer where you can at least plug in an external full size DVD drive which can be brute forced into ripping a disc. The laptop drives that come in Macs for example won't rip any disc outside their region. So, that isn't going to work in all cases and will be complicated. Drop it.

Just needs a default installation of Perian.

It would be nice to have more supported codecs but the ATV plays what iTunes provides and it is easy to rip your own material to play.

Just needs one extra output port on the back (or the removal of component and adding this instead).

S-video and composite video are dead. Component isn't. Why go backwards?

Just needs a bigger Hard Drive as standard.

Better still, the ability to add external drives in a supported way.

Just needs a menu option for Internet TV or something - maybe they could stick Youtube in this category.

iPlayer only works in the UK, Hulu only works in the US. The rest of us can get stuffed I guess.

And I did say that they didn't have to do all of the things I wanted for it to sell better ;).

Sell better or sell to you?

[bloskat]

Well, now the apple tv is great! some of the features that it is missing are available with 3rd party materials!

currently got mine streaming from my Mac divx avi and such, and it can connect to iplayer and hulu services!

got mine from a raffle (won it, didnt really pay for it) and after spending about 60$ on some stuff (*THAT DID NOT VOID ANY WARRANTY*) i can do almost anything.

Nativly, yeah its a bit of a bust, but it can be fiddled with and unlocked very easily!

[xPismo]

... it can connect to iplayer and hulu services!

Uuh? I thought that was broken (flash and hotspotsheild not happy together)?!

[bloskat]

Uuh? I thought that was broken (flash and hotspotsheild not happy together)?!

tbh i dont use the applications just test drove them a while back, worked back then, maybe i should revisit and find out ha

[Eraserhead]

And what region would the drive be?

Region unlocked.

TV standards throughout the world are different and getting TV guide data is sometimes tricky.

You can have different standards for each country you try and sell the product in. And there aren't that many different standards. TV makers manage to make TV's which work with all of them.

S-video and composite video are dead. Component isn't. Why go backwards?

Because some of us don't have brand new TV's, and why should you need to have an HD TV to use an Apple TV?

iPlayer only works in the UK, Hulu only works in the US. The rest of us can get stuffed I guess.

I was presuming they could add equivalent features for every country they sell it in.

Sell better or sell to you?

That's why I said "some of the following" it doesn't need all those features, but it needs enough to get more of an audience. The current device in its current state has failed. Even though a lot of the features that people might want can be added with third party software.

[appleguy123]

And what's wrong with the Time Capsule?

I think the power supply goes bad after 18 months.

[freediverdude]

I just love my Apple TV. But these reviewer people on these sites typically are looking for boxes that do everything and play every file type, and that's not the Apple TV.

But the Apple TV is perfect if your library is all within iTunes, like mine is, and you purchase most of your content from iTunes. In fact I planned my entire new setup back in 2006 for the release of the Apple TV. I purchased a new flatscreen TV and stand, and already had an iMac to sync with it. And now I have an iPhone to control it. I can't really imagine going to one of the other boxes now, and I've stopped watching DVD's. And I have 2, 1 tb drives attached to the iMac to be the library and the backup library that sync automatically every night. It's all effortless as long as you stick with iTunes (but I realize not everybody wants to).

I just think it's not advertised enough, and people don't know all that it does. Every time I show somebody, they're like "wow, I think I need to get one of those".

[Winnterpeg]

I just love my Apple TV. But these reviewer people on these sites typically are looking for boxes that do everything and play every file type, and that's not the Apple TV.

You are absolutely right. When I was first looking to buy one, I was getting all worked up over the "missing" things, but someone very wise (on one of these forums) advised me to just let the Apple TV be an Apple TV. It works great with iTunes to rent or buy content. Keeps everything organized and easy to find and play. Interface is good. Sure I have to jump through some hoops to add transcoded versions of my physical DVDs, but it's easy enough to do.

[toolbox]

I think the power supply goes bad after 18 months.

I have had mine for a year, first gen. Works perfectly.

The only gripe with the appletv is the size of the hard disk that is in there. Needs to be bigger and have a sata interface. Apple should allow the playing of other video formats as well. Was there a copy right issue which prevented this?

[gkarris]

I love my Apple TV, but the fact that it can't even playback iTunes 720p videos consistently without performance issues is disheartening.

What? :confused:

I have a whole bunch of iTunes 720p vids and stream all my stuff and have had absolutely NO PROBLEMS playing any of the content...

I've even played back HD rented movies - no problems there either...

And it's been over (until recently) an old g wireless access point.

What on earth are people even talking about?

[xPismo]

What on earth are people even talking about?

Lots of advanced h.264 encoding settings cause AppleTV (and iPhone/iPods) to barf and die. Its becoming really easy to make a sharp, great looking small file -- that wont play on anything but your main computer. :mad: Thanks Apple. When will QuickTime actually adhere to the full h.264 standard?

[gkarris]

Lots of advanced h.264 encoding settings cause AppleTV (and iPhone/iPods) to barf and die. Its becoming really easy to make a sharp, great looking small file -- that wont play on anything but your main computer. :mad: Thanks Apple. When will QuickTime actually adhere to the full h.264 standard?

Are you talking iTunes purchased media or stuff people encode themselves (like using Handbrake)?

[godslabrat]

The absence of a single product makes the Gizmodo list somewhat suspect - where, oh where, is the Microsoft Zune? It is certainly comprable to what Gizmodo is saying about Apple TV, except that Microsoft pushed it hard and is losing a mint on it.


I can't believe the Zune is still around. :p It's the Vista of mp3 players.

[jaw04005]

Are you talking iTunes purchased media or stuff people encode themselves (like using Handbrake)?

I was talking about iTunes purchased HD TV Shows specifically. They're hit or miss whether or not they play properly. Many times I have to stop the file, back out to the main menu and restart the file to get it quit stuttering/skipping/hiccuping. This happens on both my Apple TVs (one 40 and one 160) streaming or syncing (it doesn't matter).

Mine also can sometimes stutter when trying to load the cover art screensaver, do simple fast forward and rewind and more advanced stuff like iTunes LP.

There's been some discussion that the reason this happens has nothing to do with the actual video file, but the size of your iTunes library. Some reports have said the Apple TV actually keeps the iTunes library file in RAM (which we all know it has a limited amount of).

I've been debating whether or not it's worth the time to rebuild my iTunes library (since it's been getting updated with each version of iTunes since around 4.x) and possibly separate out my media. However, I only have around 300GB of data total.

[zedsdead]

It's not one of the worst gadgets; however, it is one of the most neglected...sadly.:mad:

Hopefully that will change in 2010. It needs new hardware badly as it can not perform basic functions anymore without crashing or stuttering.

Getting real tired of the "This format is not recognized" message (which isn't true as we know).

[joudbren]

I'm LOVIN' my ATV and the article is dead wrong. We bought it to rent movies online. Period. On that basis we have not been disappointed. We haven't been to the video store now in about 15 months and we typically rent a couple of movies every weekend from iTunes in HD. No more late fees, no starting up the car to head to the video store for pickup and returns, no waiting in line, Movies are NEVER SOLD OUT, etc, etc. ATV even lets us watch a trailer of every movie we're interested in to see if we want to watch it. Movie rental prices are consistent with our local video store as well. (In Canada, $5.99 for HD and $4.99 for SD. 30 days to play and 48 hours once you've authorized the movie)

It's only 720P?, couldn't care less. I'm running a new 52" LCD and the HD quality on our movie rentals is easily as good as the best HD TV signal I've seen. It's not Blu-Ray good but it's good enough and certainly better than DVD. Movie streaming speed is fast too with an HD rental typically ready to play in about 10 seconds on our high speed cable.

In Canada, we have no other alternatives to online movie rentals that I'm aware of, unlike the U.S. so ATV is it. The extra's like music and picture streaming, Youtube, Internet radio, etc. are just the icing on the cake. For $250 Cdn, it does exactly what we wanted and is a nice compliment to a home theatre system. I also have PS3 for Blu-Ray and DVD so that's covered as well but the vast majority (90%) of our movie watching is ATV.

The only issue I have with ATV is the typical 30 day delay in waiting for some movies to hit the rental section but that's a Studio issue, not an Apple one. Some movies show up quickly for rent but we figure that's usually a studio test to see how digital distribution is fitting into their marketing plans. I'm willing to bet the 30 day window is going to keep shortening up as the studios start to accommodate the public demand for digital distribution. Video stores are going to go the way of the dinosaur in pretty short order is my bet.

I can also say that EVERYONE that we have had over in the last year has ended up buying one of these things, once they understood what it was all about (a dozen plus people so far) and that just leads me to believe that the ATV has been poorly marketed by Apple in that most people just don't get what the ATV is all about. Once they play with it for a while then the perception changes almost instantly. My wife thought I was nuts when I bought it and now she would probably have me killed if I ever tried to take it away. That pretty much sums it up right there....

Cheers!

P.S. I should add that there is one other alternative in Canada for online rental of movies, the cable companies. Sorry, forgot about that one. However, I've found their prices to be ridiculously high (at least with Shaw) and the only HD movie we rented had noticeable lag when anything was moving fast on the screen. The selection is also very poor, the interface is slow and no trailers. Just sayin'...

James

[rayward]

I have not noticed any issues playing back 720p videos on my ATV. Are you streaming it? I have not tried that so far as I don't have a huge collection and they all fit on the ATV.

Glennsan

I have no trouble streaming 720p movies to my ATV(s), even over WiFi.

[GFLPraxis]

Any product (like the Apple TV) that has brought in $1.5 billion in revenue shouldn't be termed a "black mark" or "worst gadget of the decade" (revenue figure based upon recent estimates of nearly 7 million units sold).

Thus, by this logic, Windows Vista is a great product?

[joudbren]

Thus, by this logic, Windows Vista is a great product?

I was going to say you were making an unfair comparison but then I thought about it and you're right.

ATV and Vista: Both launched to lukewarm reception.
ATV and Vista: Both received lack-luster support in their early days.
ATV and Vista: Both products were (and still are) generally misunderstood.
ATV and Vista: Both products have improved drastically over time.
ATV and Vista: Both products are still not received as well as they should be for their intended use even though they've improved drastically.
ATV and Vista: Both products now have a fairly significant installed user base that cannot be easily ignored by their respective manufacturers. Much as they both seem to have tried.... :p

And last but not least... agreed, both products have made their respective manufacturers an awful lot of money whether they deserved it or not and my bets are on ATV being the one that continues to be a revenue generator!

Cheers!

James

[pjarvi]

I use mine every single day and find it works fine for its intended purpose as an extension of iTunes. I listen to podcasts almost every night when I get home from work, check to see what new movies are out each week, and purchase season passes for my favorite TV shows (I canceled my cable service a few months ago as well since iTunes/AppleTV has the few shows I actually care to watch).

The AppleTV is far from the worst gadget of the year, it is one of the most useful gadgets of the year for anyone with a large iTunes library that wants access to it from a living room.

I bought one shortly after they first came out, and really the only serious black-eye of the device is the lack of external storage support. Patch sticks have proven the device is fully capable of storing data on an external USB drive, Apple is just too pigheaded to do anything about it. This is a problem that only shows the success of the device, that the one true failing of it is lack of space to store everything I want to buy. In other words, Apple could be making even more money from the device than they do already.

Who in the world finds it enjoyable to use a 360 or PS3 for buying/managing digital media anyways? I've had both, and other than renting a few movies on the 360, they have horrible digital media interfaces.

[Jason Beck]

Mac Mini with a Blu Ray player.
That would be the beginning of the end. It would
pwn. High capacity SSD or 7200 HDD, 4gb ddr3,
3ghz core2duo, Blu Ray. Apple Remote.
I would buy that Mini in a heartbeat.
Or Quad Core Mini!

[racer1441]

I've been saying it all along. Apple TV is junk. Thank you Gizmodo for confirming it.




http://gizmodo.com/5431759/worst-gadgets-gallery/


This is garbage.

Apple tv is a very good part of the apple ecosystem. Imac to apple tv to Ipod to iphone.

Gizmodo is back on their anti-apple pony. Bitter bitter hacks that they are.

[gkarris]

Mac Mini with a Blu Ray player.
That would be the beginning of the end. It would
pwn. High capacity SSD or 7200 HDD, 4gb ddr3,
3ghz core2duo, Blu Ray. Apple Remote.
I would buy that Mini in a heartbeat.
Or Quad Core Mini!

An updated AppleTV that plays 1080p for, say $199 plus a Blu-Ray player for $119 (I was just at BestBuy and they had a few models on sale for that this week), would still come in cheaper than a Mini with a Blu-ray drive...

[macrazee]

it's a glorified cron job runner, or whatever the backup software in UNIX is called.

And Drobo is just a glorified proprietary RAID-esque solution, and .....

Time Capsule does exactly what it is supposed to do, and there's nothing comparable on the market. Set it down and instantly all your Mac's have a backup solution.

The problem I see (and this goes with the Apple TV here) is people expect TOO MUCH from a product, or try to use it in ways it was NEVER intended for. You want a redundant fail-safe backup system? Go spend a few thousand. You want a simple, easy backup system for all your Macs? Spend $400-$500 on the Capsule.

Similarly with Apple TV. Sure, the Mini does a lot more. It also costs a LOT more than $229. See where I'm heading here?

[balamw]

I bought my :apple:TV on launch day.

My #1 problem with the :apple:TV is its very un-Apple power behavior. Unlike any other product I have bought in the past 6 years it doesn't sleep and effectively uses just as much power when idle as when it is going full bore. (Yes, I've checked it with a Kill-A-Watt.)

This leads to problem #2, HEAT. Because of the embedded power supply and small size/lack of fans it gets and stays really hot.

This in turn leads to problem #3, freezing/stuttering when it overheats.

Unfortunately this means that I can't use it in my current AV cabinet with my TiVo. One of these years I may get a tvTray http://h-sq.com/products/tvtray/index.html to help it keep its cool and actually be useful again...

B

[fpnc]

...This in turn leads to problem #3, freezing/stuttering when it overheats...
I've never had my Apple TV overheat, but I'll admit that I keep it outside of my closed AV cabinet. If you are really having problems with overheating have you considered using one of the USB-powered fans to circulate air around/under the Apple TV? You could use the Apple TV's USB port to supply the power. I've also attached rubber feet to the bottom of my Apple TV, but that's the only modification I've made to the unit (i.e. I don't use a fan).

As for the Apple TV being "hot," yes it does get quite warm to the touch and I do wish it had a deep sleep mode and a physical power on/off switch. This April, my Apple TV will be three years old and I'm actually a bit surprised that the HD is still working fine. I've had several DVRs over the last ten years and the hard drives in those units typically last only about two years. Thus, I'd rate the reliability of the Apple TV hardware as pretty good (running "hot" or not).

[xPismo]

...Unlike any other product I have bought in the past 6 years it doesn't sleep and effectively uses just as much power when idle as when it is going full bore. (Yes, I've checked it with a Kill-A-Watt.)...

Interesting. How much does it burn? No posted Energy Saver information (http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html) at Apple. I wonder what happens if you tell it to sleep via the terminal or use the standby option in the menu? I'd give it a shot but I'm not near mine.

[jjxc90]

Interesting. How much does it burn? No posted Energy Saver information (http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html) at Apple. I wonder what happens if you tell it to sleep via the terminal or use the standby option in the menu? I'd give it a shot but I'm not near mine.

The AppleTV uses about 15 watts any time it's on or in standby mode. Around here that equates to about 4-5 cents per day. Hardly anything to get all flustered about. My DirecTV HD (non-DVR) box uses about 20 watts when in standby.

It does not have a fan, so the housing itself acts as a heat sink. It will feel warm, and will require proper ventilation (as do most devices).

[Bevz]

In the UK, the value you're getting is horrible. You could either buy a 160GB AppleTV for £219 or an Xbox 360 or a PS3 with a Hard Drive and with bundled games and controllers and the ability to stream movies anyway.

Seeing as AppleTV doesn't need an amazing graphics card/ processor and doesn't have a DVD drive, I don't see how dropping it to £150 should be an issue.

I couldn't agree more. I bought my xbox 360 elite with 120gb HD for £200 and that included 2 wireless controllers and a copy for forza 3 and modern warfare 2...!
The ATV isn't a games console, and i don't want it to be, but it's incredibly overpriced for what it does.

I have had mine for a year, first gen. Works perfectly.

Same here; it may be overpriced, but to be fair to it, it's a workhorse! My first gen has been powered on since the day it was bought and it's still working just fine!

It's not one of the worst gadgets; however, it is one of the most neglected...sadly.:mad:

Hopefully that will change in 2010. It needs new hardware badly as it can not perform basic functions anymore without crashing or stuttering.


Couldn't agree more.

I love my ATV. It's simple and is perfect for the whole family... Even my 4 and 5 year old children can work it... Not a lot of devices can boast that kind of simplicity... But... It's overpriced and in dire need of some TLC from apple. The hardware needs upgrading and (more importantly) the software too... I think they could easily add a few vital features to it and still keep the simplicity;
- Enabling the USB port for external drives
- Allowing network file access
- I STILL can't play TV shows continuously without using a playlist, something which iTunes itself does without any problems!
- The thumbnails in the movie trailer section are getting smaller with each update; i may be getting old but the text is so small now i have to really squint to see it!
I could go on but basically (and this has been said many times before) apple need to stop thinking of this as a "hobby" and start taking their own product seriously. It's undervalued by Gizmodo and sadly, by Apple too.

[RaceTripper]

Put me down as one who thinks the Apple TV is a half-baked, closed and restrictive, poor performing, awkward to use, waste of money. It's the one Apple device I regret buying and am embarrassed to own.

[joaoferro37]

This is garbage.
Agreed..
Apple tv is a very good part of the apple ecosystem. Imac to apple tv to Ipod to iphone.

Gizmodo is back on their anti-apple pony. Bitter bitter hacks that they are.

Apple TV, iPhone, Mac, mobileMe, iTunes, iPod, iLife, AirPort Extreme station and more. I can link all my hardwares and softwares and it is complete worry free.
strike1555, can you name one company provides such great and complete solution.
Besides, I've try similar product, G-play, some mpeg playback enclosures, and these are junk, not Apple TV.

[OdduWon]

:apple:TV is so expensive for what it does, it almost makes more sense to get a finally updated Mac Mini. Is there a difference between front row and :apple:TV software?

aside- Why can't you continue to listen/view selected content while you browse for the next to be played? This is the lamest part of Front row IMHO.

[joaoferro37]

And Drobo is just a glorified proprietary RAID-esque solution, and .....

Time Capsule does exactly what it is supposed to do, and there's nothing comparable on the market. Set it down and instantly all your Mac's have a backup solution.

The problem I see (and this goes with the Apple TV here) is people expect TOO MUCH from a product, or try to use it in ways it was NEVER intended for. You want a redundant fail-safe backup system? Go spend a few thousand. You want a simple, easy backup system for all your Macs? Spend $400-$500 on the Capsule.

Similarly with Apple TV. Sure, the Mini does a lot more. It also costs a LOT more than $229. See where I'm heading here?

I heard a lot of failure on time capsule so I got airport extreme station and Stardom safe capsule. Can't really make comment on time capsule but with safe capsule, it has built-in raid 1 (2 drives) and I am happy with it.
I got 4TB (2TB if set up as RAID 1) for $469.

[balamw]

I've never had my Apple TV overheat, but I'll admit that I keep it outside of my closed AV cabinet. If you are really having problems with overheating have you considered using one of the USB-powered fans to circulate air around/under the Apple TV? You could use the Apple TV's USB port to supply the power. I've also attached rubber feet to the bottom of my Apple TV, but that's the only modification I've made to the unit (i.e. I don't use a fan).

As for the Apple TV being "hot," yes it does get quite warm to the touch and I do wish it had a deep sleep mode and a physical power on/off switch. This April, my Apple TV will be three years old and I'm actually a bit surprised that the HD is still working fine. I've had several DVRs over the last ten years and the hard drives in those units typically last only about two years. Thus, I'd rate the reliability of the Apple TV hardware as pretty good (running "hot" or not).

I previously had it on an open, but ~6" tall, shelf and it would still overheat. It actually got better when I upgraded the HDD to 160 GB, but it still overheats and freezes for no reason. Usually when I want to use it. I did recently add a quiet 12 V fan to my AV cabinet just to keep the heat generated by the TiVo moving. Didn't cool things down enough to enable the :Apple:TV to work consistently. I should probably inspect and replace the thermal interface goop on the CPU/GPU.

The AppleTV uses about 15 watts any time it's on or in standby mode. Around here that equates to about 4-5 cents per day. Hardly anything to get all flustered about. My DirecTV HD (non-DVR) box uses about 20 watts when in standby.

It does not have a fan, so the housing itself acts as a heat sink. It will feel warm, and will require proper ventilation (as do most devices).

Mine runs closer to 25-30 W all the time, or at least it did with the stock 40 GB drive. Might be a bit less with the 160.

It isn't the money that bothers me, it's the waste. It isn't doing anything for me for that power except generating heat and wearing out the components unnecessarily in a very un-Apple-like way. If you assume all estimated 6 M Apple TVs are hovering somewhere around 20 W at all times that adds up to a 120 MW (or 1 TWh per year) which is just wasteful. All of my "always on" components do something for me or they get shut off.

B

[H.isidorius]

. Still, it goes against the Apple model of buying content from iTunes...

Overhere in The Netherlands, the issue is primarily the lack of iTunes store content. You can just by Music, Apps, iTunes U and Podcast,..... no movies no rentals,.... nothing that can make the Apple TV a success.

So yes, I agree with Gismodo that the product is a failure (at least as long as you do not rip your own content :-)

[lefooey]

Apple TV is one of the few black marks on Apple's record this decade. Unfortunately, their walled garden approach to a media center just doesn't do enough things right to make it a standout product. The recent 3.0 update was the most recent disappointment, especially since there are many great devices that each do a better job with most of its video functionality, including the Xbox 360, the LG BD390 Blu-ray player, the Roku box, TiVo HD and the Asus O!Play.

Sorry, Gizmodo - no peanuts for you.

In all fairness the AppleTV is a limited device at a relatively low price. I'll accept that. But to then throw out this list of lackluster and/or proprietary devices (most with their own "walled gardens") is just BS.

Roku? I own one. And unless you want to use content from their paid premium providers, too bad. UPNP? No coming, no plans to implement.

LG Blu-Ray? Netflix only, dude.

Tivo? Walled garden, unless you hack it.

O!Play? C'mon, there's USB enclosures with more features. No Wi-FI? Please.

I'll take that AppleTV you hate so much off your hands.

[jaw04005]

Mine runs closer to 25-30 W all the time, or at least it did with the stock 40 GB drive. Might be a bit less with the 160.

The max power consumption I’ve seen during peak times of playing HD video is 20 W with most of the time it running 15-17 W. It sounds like your Apple TV may have a hardware issue.

[TonD]

My ATV runs at 21W idle or standby (the standby feature is utterly useless as it does NOTHING except turn the screen black). BTW I modified mine with a 5400 RPM 320GB WD disk. I just turn it off when not used with a remote controlled power outlet thingy...

BTW, I just bought my second ATV last night thru eBay so couldn't disagree more with gizmodo either ;)

[jaw04005]

It looks like the Apple TV has picked up some steam. It's currently the #11 top seller on the Mac list in the Apple Store, ahead of Time Capsule, AirPort Base Station, AirPort Express, iLife, Apple keyboard, among others.

[carlcosby]

I have not noticed any issues playing back 720p videos on my ATV. Are you streaming it? I have not tried that so far as I don't have a huge collection and they all fit on the ATV.

Glennsan


I have problems playing 720p, but only with the 720p blue-ray stuff i download, apples stuff is perfect. How can I play my own 720p stuff that runs a smooth as apples?

Thanx

[dynaflash]

It does not have a fan, ...
Of course it does, I have had mine apart more times than I care to count and it has a fan.

[jaw04005]

It does not have a fan, so the housing itself acts as a heat sink. It will feel warm, and will require proper ventilation (as do most devices).

As Dynaflash pointed it, it has a fan (although it’s a quiet one).

People love to complain now about how hot the Apple TV’s surface gets. They would really complain if there was no fan. :D

[fpnc]

...This leads to problem #2, HEAT. Because of the embedded power supply and small size/lack of fans it gets and stays really hot.

This in turn leads to problem #3, freezing/stuttering when it overheats. ...
Perhaps the fan in your Apple TV has failed and that's why your unit is overheating.

As for the playback problems with 720p video, I've never had that issue on my Apple TV. However, I've probably rented or purchased only about a dozen HD movies/TV shows from iTunes so I don't have a vast experience with HD content from the iTunes Store. In any case, I've also compressed some of my own content to 720p and those seem to play just fine.

[balamw]

Perhaps the fan in your Apple TV has failed and that's why your unit is overheating.
No the fan seems to work just fine. I can feel the airflow when it is on.

I do however think there is a thermal interface problem somewhere, or my PSU generates too much heat.

The later firmware versions have aggravated the problem. Under 1.0 I attributed the stuttering/etc to a wonky wireless connection, as it seemed to be better once I switched it over to wired with a wireless bridge, but that may just have been the reduction of heat being generated by the wireless card. Things got a lot worse once I upgraded to 2.0 and have not improved since.

FWIW the :apple:TV was my first and last Rev A/release date purchase of hardware. The laptops were both refurbs and flawless, and I waited quite a bit before buying my other gear.

B

[mrrory]

I love my Apple TV! I haven't watched broadcast television in years now and I'm so much happier because of it.

[joudbren]

It looks like the Apple TV has picked up some steam. It's currently the #11 top seller on the Mac list in the Apple Store, ahead of Time Capsule, AirPort Base Station, AirPort Express, iLife, Apple keyboard, among others.

I'm not even remotely surprised to see this. I firmly believe this product has become a substantial revenue generator for Apple and was probably launched before it's time which is why it got off to such a dismal start. The market and infrastructure for this type of distribution is finally here and now the ATV fits in and in a lot of ways is now leading the pack. Like I said, at least in Canada it's practically the only game in town so far and Apple has a significant market lead here.

I would bet a lot of money that this product is now starting to sell WAYYYY better than Apple lets on and Stevie is probably seriously regretting saying the ATV was "just a hobby product" a while back as now that's one more hurdle the ATV has had to overcome. My ATV is starting to remind me of the "the little engine that could" story and it's still a winner in our household and obviously becoming a winner in a lot of other households. Cheers!

James

[EarthDawn]

Whatever !!!

We have 2 ATV's for the house and EVERYONE LOVES THEM !!!

I cant imagine not having them .... they are awesome and work super well and allow playback of our movies, music, pictures and we watch youtube on the big screen as well. It does these things with ease and simplicity !

Forget having all those CD's and DVD's laying around...

[xPismo]

...have 2 ATV's for the house and EVERYONE LOVES THEM !!!... Forget having all those CD's and DVD's laying around...

I'm on a DVD conversion quest myself -- its very nice not to have the clutter (as well as having all my movies ready to go).

[Jaro65]

I really like mine. Can't agree.

I really like mine too. But I sure do hope that Apple doesn't completely abandon this product and updates it soon. I'm struggling to understand why this is so low on their priority list, given that it is a direct gateway to their iTunes store and as such it is bound to generate incremental revenue on top of the price for the h/w itself.

[Jaro65]

This is a problem that only shows the success of the device, that the one true failing of it is lack of space to store everything I want to buy. In other words, Apple could be making even more money from the device than they do already.


I completely agree with you. The Apple TV is pretty much a perfect and least expensive iTunes gateway. Why would Apple not want to make this device as capable as possible to view and store the content that the user has to rent/buy from iTunes, thus resulting in revenue to Apple? I do not understand the logic. You're talking about an incremental revenue stream. Why not exploit it? Don't they care about money anymore?

[nevermind50]

I completely agree with you. The Apple TV is pretty much a perfect and least expensive iTunes gateway. Why would Apple not want to make this device as capable as possible to view and store the content that the user has to rent/buy from iTunes, thus resulting in revenue to Apple? I do not understand the logic. You're talking about an incremental revenue stream. Why not exploit it? Don't they care about money anymore?

I think perhaps Apple are making some progress here, at least with some Networks. There are two issues that are causing problems. 1) Lack of agreement on iTunes subscriptions and 2) Delivery infrastructure problems, particularly with Broadband providers. IMO, neither of these problems are down to Apple.

As for increasing local storage, I believe that streaming over the internet is the way forward, once issue (2) goes away. In the meantime, store your own content on a central computer running iTunes. I have a 40GB appleTV and the disk still has lots of free space even though I’ve rented 2 HD movies, because I stream my own content over ethernet rather than store it on the appleTV.

For pities sake apple, don’t listen to the people on this thread that request the appleTV becomes an “all in one box” Yes, improve the hardware in terms of playback of 720p material (30fps would be nice; 1080p playback would also be welcome; IPTV... bring it), but the current balance between price vs features works just fine for me. Those of you that ask for BD / PVR functionality just don’t get it.

[dynaflash]

Those of you that ask for BD / PVR functionality just don’t get it.
... and likely never will.

[TwinCities Dan]

What a joke! :rolleyes:

The :apple:TV is awesome! Everybody who has seen mine and my collection is simply amazed. :cool:

Over 400 movies and hundreds of TV shows at my fingertips, yea, worst gadget of the decade. :rolleyes:

[dbwie]

I love my :apple:TV! Others who see it in action are amazed by it.

[jaw04005]

:apple:TV is so expensive for what it does, it almost makes more sense to get a finally updated Mac Mini. Is there a difference between front row and :apple:TV software?

The Mac mini is $599. The Apple TV is $229. That’s a big difference. Yes, there is also difference between the Apple TV’s software and the current version of Front Row.

The version of Front Row (2.x) that currently ships with 10.6 Snow Leopard is actually based on Apple TV Software Version 1.x. Whereas, we’ve moved on to 3.x on the Apple TV itself.

Front Row development on the Mac side appears to be dead. Apple no longer ships the compatible remotes with any of their Mac products and Front Row hasn’t been updated (other than bug fixes) since Oct. 2007.

[Hawkeye411]

Funny! Just last night I was using my ATV and I said to my wife, "I love this device. It's amazing!! It just works". However, I did mod mine with ATV Flash and an external HD :D . If they came out with something even better, that would be really cool.

[tmofee]

I used to enjoy my little Apple TV. still use it now and again for the occasional download/rental. Then I finally bought myself the ps3 slim with play tv, and basically that's taken over as my main media unit. plays avi natively, can see my NAS without any hacks, plays bluray, records and replays tv? i buy the daily show from itunes, cause there's no way in hell im paying for austar just for that show. otherwise the thing doesnt come on as much anymore at all. it's a shame. the apple tv had an interesting thing going. it's a shame apple's ignored it for so long.

[Jaro65]

I used to enjoy my little Apple TV. still use it now and again for the occasional download/rental. Then I finally bought myself the ps3 slim with play tv, and basically that's taken over as my main media unit. plays avi natively, can see my NAS without any hacks, plays bluray, records and replays tv? i buy the daily show from itunes, cause there's no way in hell im paying for austar just for that show. otherwise the thing doesnt come on as much anymore at all. it's a shame. the apple tv had an interesting thing going. it's a shame apple's ignored it for so long.

I used to get The Daily Show from iTunes. Now I just watch it on Hulu.

[coolfish]

Good, thanks for sharing...

[miamirabbit]

i love my apple tv. sometimes i take it from one room to another.. i can listen to my music library thru my surrond soundand i like to view future purchases on my 50" plasma... it could use an upgrade but i am happy with mine:cool::apple:

[chimpboy74]

Just thought I would chip in my tuppence.

I consider myself an average Joe, I am not that techy but know a little (as most folks do now)

I bought an ATV on impulse a year ago cause it was on refurb and pretty cheap. I then spent the next several months trying to convince my wife it had a purpose.

I can safely say that a year on we both love the system for its ease of use and simplicity. I have it connected via HDMI to my TV and optically to surround sound. When I want to listen to music in my living room. ATV gets turned on.

When I want to show photos on a big screen to friends and family - ATV

When I want to watch a film - ATV (both rentals from itunes and handbrake rips - my wife does this as she is more techy than me!)

I used to have a PS3 but sold it and TBH I couldnt tell you the difference between what the ATV puts out versus the PS3 and probably a lot of other people couldnt either

We sometimes even put on the ATV just to have the photo screensaver playing when we have visitors and dont want music on, its nice to just have on showing random photos.

Wether I truly am an average Joe I'm not sure about but my guess is that as downloadable content becomes more commonplace (I know loads of people who still rent and buy DVDs) the ATV will make more sense for the average person who doesnt want it to be a TV tuner or a PC or be able to play any file format etc etc

it is very good at what it does. It just doesnt do a lot of other things. But then it never claimed to.

[AAPLaday]

For me the Apple TV is perhaps the one Apple product that is most neglected but has the appeal to be one of the most purchased. At the moment a lot of people use hacks to get the best out of it but lets not forget the hardware hasn't changed for a good long while.

[tmofee]

I used to get The Daily Show from iTunes. Now I just watch it on Hulu.

ahh hulu. wish we had that here in australia....

[mtbdudex]

The version of Front Row (2.x) that currently ships with 10.6 Snow Leopard is actually based on Apple TV Software Version 1.x. Whereas, we’ve moved on to 3.x on the Apple TV itself.

Thx for posting that pict comparing AppleTV vs Front Row.
I really like my Apple TV, besides the HD Movie download issue I posted in this other thread http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=846109.

[jessica.]

I hardly think your theories are proven because some tech site actually reports on it. I doubt you've ever used one so your opinion matters little.

The ATV serves a very nice purpose for those who enjoy the purchased content or rentals in iTunes. Personally I loved mine until I wanted something more and did not want to deal with hacking the ATV.

[Transporteur]

The Mac mini is $599. The Apple TV is $229. That’s a big difference. Yes, there is also difference between the Apple TV’s software and the current version of Front Row.

The version of Front Row (2.x) that currently ships with 10.6 Snow Leopard is actually based on Apple TV Software Version 1.x. Whereas, we’ve moved on to 3.x on the Apple TV itself.

Front Row development on the Mac side appears to be dead. Apple no longer ships the compatible remotes with any of their Mac products and Front Row hasn’t been updated (other than bug fixes) since Oct. 2007.

Thank you very much for that information!

I consider buying a Mac Mini to use it as a HTPC, but in fact, the current Front Row version is not very user friendly with thousands of videos.
I't takes hours to find the right movie, hence it would be nice to get the Apple TV Front Row version 3 on the Mini.
Has anybody done that yet?