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View Full Version : Need help with iMac G3s, mac os 9 and mac os X tiger




lyam
Dec 27, 2009, 11:52 AM
Sorry, i hate posting nooby questions, but i've searched places and none have the answers i'm looking for, so i decided to post a thread.

Firstly, i'm quite new to macs and i have an iMac G3 tray load (266mHz), and a green G3 slot load (which i think is the 450mhz one as it is not working) and a few things have occured which i would like help with.

So.... i have have a slot G3 that when is booted, it comes up with a flashing question mark (it seems that its classic OS). Apparently, it requires the system install disc which i have, but when i try to boot from the disc, it still comes up with the flashing question mark. Am i right to conclude that the optical drive is broken then? If so, am i able to boot the disc using an external cd drive as it would be easier and cheaper to buy one of these than installing a new cd drive?

Also, i will be upgrading my tray loading G3 to a larger IDE hard drive. The orginal 6gb hard drive contains classic 9.2 and 10.3.9, but when i upgrade, i want to keep the os 9.2 and maybe install either panther or tiger, but i dont have the orginal classic OS disc that came with it, just the one for the slot loaing iMac. If i replace the hard drive with the larger one and partition it correctly, am i able to install classic OS using the disc from the slot loading iMac G3 and then panther or tiger without any complications? If not, what do i have to do as i would really like to keep the classic os too?

Finally, does anybody know from experience whether it would be wise to install Tiger onto a tray loading iMac G3 with 266 mHz processor, either 384mb or 512mb of RAM (i'm not sure whether to max it out yet) and a 60gb 5400 hard drive? I would stick with panther, but newer apps now need tiger as a minimum :( Also, as i have a cd copy, am i right to think that there should be no complications when installing Tiger, as i does say on the apple site in system requirements that i need atleast a 333mHz processor and firewire, but i assume that those requirements arent completely necessary?

I would be truely grateful for any possitive replies that would help answer my questions.

Thanks

Lyam



MacHamster68
Dec 27, 2009, 12:15 PM
stop stop stop
cant read that fast
first the slot loader was anything upgraded in the past?
than reset pram and hold down alt and apple keys select the drive
that should do it fingers crossed

the iMac slot loader runs on tiger quiet well
the iMac tray loader will run with tiger too if it gets enough ram , but its not really fast , runs better with panther

and go for a 7200 drive as it helps to speed up things if they run out of ram


btw usb drives are not bootable so you need a firewire if ...


here is a nice website for all things imac g3 related
http://imacworld.110mb.com/index.html

lyam
Dec 27, 2009, 12:21 PM
i dont think the slot loader has been upgarded as it was only ever used by a school, has been in school storage for many, many year and it only has one module of ram, although it will be likely to be upgraded if it works. now testing the reseting pram, will notify results.

lyam
Dec 27, 2009, 12:29 PM
it didnt work, yeah that would have been an easy solution :( also the optical drive ejects and inserts discs and makes a disc spinning noise if thats any more info for people :p

EDIT: thanks for that site, i'm sure it will be a great help with all the useful links

lomolomo
Dec 27, 2009, 12:32 PM
So.... i have have a slot G3 that when is booted, it comes up with a flashing question mark (it seems that its classic OS). Apparently, it requires the system install disc which i have, but when i try to boot from the disc, it still comes up with the flashing question mark. Am i right to conclude that the optical drive is broken then? If so, am i able to boot the disc using an external cd drive as it would be easier and cheaper to buy one of these than installing a new cd drive?

if the other trick (apple key + alt) doesn't work, press C when starting up and you should be able to install or repair your system from the system CD.


Also, i will be upgrading my tray loading G3 to a larger IDE hard drive. The orginal 6gb hard drive contains classic 9.2 and 10.3.9, but when i upgrade, i want to keep the os 9.2 and maybe install either panther or tiger, but i dont have the orginal classic OS disc that came with it, just the one for the slot loaing iMac. If i replace the hard drive with the larger one and partition it correctly, am i able to install classic OS using the disc from the slot loading iMac G3 and then panther or tiger without any complications? If not, what do i have to do as i would really like to keep the classic os too?

connect your 6GB iMac via firewire (start up and press T) as volume to your other iMac, copy the whole thing to an external drive which you later build into your system....that approach should work I would think....if the 6GB is older than your other iMac with the OS 9 disc it should also work...but they are a bit more temperamental....or maybe there is a bt around.....


Finally, does anybody know from experience whether it would be wise to install Tiger onto a tray loading iMac G3 with 266 mHz processor, either 384mb or 512mb of RAM (i'm not sure whether to max it out yet) and a 60gb 5400 hard drive? I would stick with panther, but newer apps now need tiger as a minimum :( Also, as i have a cd copy, am i right to think that there should be no complications when installing Tiger, as i does say on the apple site in system requirements that i need atleast a 333mHz processor and firewire, but i assume that those requirements arent completely necessary?

Stick with Panther as you deal with an old machine.....

I would be truely grateful for any possitive replies that would help answer my questions.

Thanks

Lyam-

lyam
Dec 27, 2009, 12:43 PM
Thank you for your fast replies, however i have tried both and neither work (alt + apple key and disc + c) i've even tried pressing the caps lock key to verify that caps lock was off on various attemps. i think that i shall stick to panther on the tray loader then.]


EDIT:the second solution has confused me slightly, would you be able to elaborate please as i do not understand. also the tray loader doesnt have firewire and the slot loader isnt working

MacHamster68
Dec 27, 2009, 12:47 PM
so before i start tryig to think waht might cause what ere download this pdf (its for the tray loader but is the same on the slot loader , its the emargency manual)
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/iMacG3_originalEmergencyHndbk.PDF

read it and i guess it should either solve the problem or point out what exactly is wrong


ah one second you say tiger disc? , do you have 1 tiger disc ? , 2 grey discs or more? as if you have only one then its a dvd and you need a dvd drive, same for the two grey disc`s they are dvd`s and not all imac g3 slot loader came with dvd drive, in fact most came with simple cd drives

lomolomo
Dec 27, 2009, 12:48 PM
the handbook should work out fine for you....one thing about the iMac HD:

http://www.faqintosh.com/risorse/en/guides/hw/imac/imacg3dvhd/

MacHamster68
Dec 27, 2009, 01:10 PM
Thank you for your fast replies, however i have tried both and neither work (alt + apple key and disc + c) i've even tried pressing the caps lock key to verify that caps lock was off on various attemps. i think that i shall stick to panther on the tray loader then.]




EDIT:the second solution has confused me slightly, would you be able to elaborate please as i do not understand. also the tray loader doesnt have firewire and the slot loader isnt working

you can use a external USB dvd/dvd rw cd rw drive ,but you cant boot from it (reinstalling operating system )
but on the slot loader you could if you use a firewire dvd/dvdrw /cdrw drive boot from it

MacHamster68
Dec 27, 2009, 01:18 PM
another important info iMac g3 can only see up to 128gb harddrives internal , but
external no limit

lyam
Dec 27, 2009, 01:33 PM
so before i start tryig to think waht might cause what ere download this pdf (its for the tray loader but is the same on the slot loader , its the emargency manual)
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/iMacG3_originalEmergencyHndbk.PDF

read it and i guess it should either solve the problem or point out what exactly is wrong

I've got the official slot loading G3 guidebook and i printed out all the pages of that emergency handbook (because its hard to understand, giong backwards and forwards) and tried all solutions from both, but it doesnt boot from the disc

ah one second you say tiger disc? , do you have 1 tiger disc ? , 2 grey discs or more? as if you have only one then its a dvd and you need a dvd drive, same for the two grey disc`s they are dvd`s and not all imac g3 slot loader came with dvd drive, in fact most came with simple cd drives


Its got more than one disc so it should be the cd version, so it would work with both G3s as long as they work and i want to install it


Also, thanks MacHamster68, i was replacing the tray loader HD because of that no firewire and non bootable usb (although i wasnt too sure of what that meant)

so were you proposing putting the 6gb hard drive into the slot loader and borrowing my friends firewire external HD, copy everything from the internal HD to the external HD, then putting in the replacement 60gb HD (that should be going into the tray loader) into the slot loader and copying everything from the external HD into the partitioned area of the internal 60gb, then putting the internal HD into the tray loader from the slot loader? Also, would it still come up with the flashin question mark with the 6gb HD in there? and would it ruin things if the slot loader didnt have the latest firmware before putting in the 6gb HD from the tray loader?

AH, if this was a problem, before i take out the 6gb HD from the tray loader, would changing it to boot into classic OS 9 on start up be a solution if that was a problem. then i would just transfer the HD to an external HD in OS 9 instead of panther.

MacHamster68
Dec 27, 2009, 02:15 PM
tiger are i think in disc version quiet a few disc i think 4
if your friend has a iMac g3
then he could connect the firewire external with your 60gb inside the enclosure and format it to mac os extended journaled and copy his os onto that then take it out of the enclosure fit it in yours and fine

where abouts are you in the uk

lyam
Dec 27, 2009, 03:05 PM
sorry for slow reply, i only have two friends with Macs, one with an ibook G4 (ithink) and one with a moderately new iMac (intel). I live in Norwich in East Anglia in Norfolk

EDIT: and it has 3 discs, but i was given to me with three as one was lost (but it is only some printer drivers which arent important for what i need it for)

MacHamster68
Dec 27, 2009, 03:39 PM
ah ok yes the last disc number 4 isn`t important

so as you are sure the 60gb drive is working , fit that inside and check for any maybe lose connections (hands away from the crt screen , put in the first cd , switch off the iMac and turn it on by holding down the c- key at the same time and only let the key go when something happens , takes really long to have affect
if still nothing happens follow all instructions to related issues on the emergency handbook again , if still nothing then
we can rule out the harddrive for causing a problem and could point out the cd drive maybe dirt inside over the years or a non working lense


east anglia is a bit to far for me to pop around and take care of it

lyam
Dec 27, 2009, 04:21 PM
thanks for trying to help, err... it must be the optical drive though, because it should boot the disc (system install) whether the hard drive is working or not, so its a tricky one. i know that the flashing question mark may signify not being able to find the mac os classic on the hard drive, but the disc should still boot whether the hard drive works or not. So should i take out the optical drive and blow through it :D and maybe try and clean it out, then put it all back together making sure all is connected well, is that what i should do?

also, i may not need to duplicate my drive as there isnt anything important (except the mac os classic). if i just insert the new hd in the tray loader and reinstall mas os classic, then upgrade to panther again, would that work just as well? BUT as i've said, the mac classic disc has been used before to install the os, so do you know whether i can use it multiple times? i dont really want to have to take apart both iMacs at the same time, interchanging things :(

MacHamster68
Dec 28, 2009, 04:04 PM
yes you can use it as often as you like
and yes cleaning the drive cant do any harm and so can checking all connections inside ,but could solve the problem eventually
and for the hardrive which one you chose for the slot loader or tray loader is actually up to you

lyam
Dec 29, 2009, 10:58 AM
Thanks for all your help (especially MacHamster68 :)),

I think instead of backing up and transfering the data from the tray loader onto a new drive, i will just reinstall mac classic, then panther and all the other software because although its time consuming, it will be much simpler.

And for the slot loading imac, i will take out the optical drive, give it a clean (as i know it was stored in an extremely dusty place, actually a technology room) and plug back in, making sure its all connected properly. If that doesnt work, i might just buy a replacement internal optical drive from eBay :(

And i will install tiger on the slot loader, and panther on the tray loader.

Two more questions though:

1. How do you partition a new hard drive? Is it fairly obvious eg. does the partitioning software appear on start up?

2. Do i have to partition the imac slot loader IF i buy a new ide HD

lyam
Dec 29, 2009, 11:12 AM
Thanks for all your help (especially MacHamster68 :)),

I think instead of backing up and transfering the data from the tray loader onto a new drive, i will just reinstall mac classic, then panther and all the other software because although its time consuming, it will be much simpler.

And for the slot loading imac, i will take out the optical drive, give it a clean (as i know it was stored in an extremely dusty place, actually a technology room) and plug back in, making sure its all connected properly. If that doesnt work, i might just buy a replacement internal optical drive from eBay :(

And i will install tiger on the slot loader, and panther on the tray loader.

Two more questions though:

1. How do you partition a new hard drive? Is it fairly obvious eg. does the partitioning software appear on start up?

2. Do i have to partition the imac slot loader IF i buy a new ide HD

(edit) The reason why I ask this is because i may put the 60gb hard drive into the slot loader, and the 40gb from the slot loader into the tray loader :D

MacHamster68
Dec 29, 2009, 03:14 PM
For partitioning you need Disk Utility which does not appear automatically :

Mac OS X installation disc, choose Disk Utility from the Utilities menu.


Select the disk you want to partition (that is, the disk you want to install Mac OS X on. The disk contains size and model number of the drive, not "Macintosh HD" or a name you chose.
Click the Partition tab in the Disk Utility window. If the partition tab is not visible, make sure you've selected the disk (not volume) in the left side of the window.

Tip: In Disk Utility, volume names are indented on the left side of the window. Disk names are not indented.
Choose the desired number of partitions from the Volume Scheme pop-up menu. It's OK to choose "1 Partition" if you only want one.


you need to format in "Mac OS Extended Journaled "



Make any other changes you wish in the Volume Information section, such as partition size(s) or naming.
Click the Partition button to erase your disk and install the new partition scheme.
When partitioning finishes, you should be able to install Mac OS X on the volume

lyam
Dec 29, 2009, 05:19 PM
thanks

it is recommended for me to partition no more than 7gb on the imacs, therefore i should be able to install two operating systems (classic and panther) on that one partition, shouldnt I?

MacHamster68
Dec 30, 2009, 05:40 AM
thanks

it is recommended for me to partition no more than 7gb on the imacs, therefore i should be able to install two operating systems (classic and panther) on that one partition, shouldnt I?

only a partiton of max 7 better 6.5 for os9 panther can go on the rest , have a slot loader with panther and os 9.2.2 and i have a 6.5 gb partiton os 9
and a 121.5 gb panther partiton



good site for iMac g3 http://imacworld.110mb.com/index.html

lyam
Dec 30, 2009, 04:46 PM
thank you so much for your help. every question i have thrown at you, you have answered and i'm very grateful. i now feel confident enough to start this "project" without the constant fear off making everything worse :)

i think thats eveything

Lyam

:)

MacHamster68
Dec 30, 2009, 06:02 PM
good luck and wish you loads of fun with the little iMac`s they are still great computers

PurrBall
Dec 30, 2009, 06:14 PM
On the tray loader, OS X must be in the first 8 GB of the hard drive. In order to prevent the OS from growing outside of that, I would partition the tray loader to have a 7 GB OS X partition and then use the rest for whatever.

lyam
Dec 31, 2009, 03:36 AM
Ok, can i just verify this:

So my tray loader will have a partition of 7gb for panther, and then maybe a 4gb for classic os? Can't i put classic os and panther in the same 7gb partition (i dont really understand how partitioning works)?

And...

My slot loader should have a 6.5gb partition just for classic, and then install panther on the rest of the 53.5gb?

:)

MacHamster68
Dec 31, 2009, 07:18 AM
you can put them into the same partition


and panther doesnt need to be installed in a small partition , only os 9 needs to be in a less then 7gb partition

lyam
Jan 1, 2010, 07:27 AM
Thanks, i'm all set to go now :)

One question though which i off topic, is there a way of getting garage band for free on panther, as in later operatinfg systems its included in for free? There probably isnt a legal way, but i was just finding out before concluding.

Cox Orange
Jan 1, 2010, 07:16 PM
Hello,

can someone make this VERY clear, again. The answers seem contradicting each other. Does MacHamster say PurrBall is wrong?

Which of the following examples would work for which iMac?

example 1:
First 8GB Partition: OS 9 + OS x
Second 110GB Partition: something else

example 2:
First 8GB: OS 9
Second 110GB: OS X and other stuff, like media

example 3:
First 8GB: OS X
Second: OS 9 and other things

example 4:
First 2GB: OS 9 (because system plus Apps is 400MB large)
Second 5GB: OS X (about 1,5-3GB large dependign on what X-Version)
Third 110GB: other Stuff



MacHamster says:
Slot-Loader:
6,5GB first for OS 9
Second Partition: OS X and other things
but you can put OS 9 + OS X in the first 6,5GB as well (see last post)
(did this apply to the trays as well?)

PurrBall says:
Tray-Loader:
first 7GB for OS X
Second for OS 9 and other things


I read from lowendmac.com that the slot-loaders don't have an issue with 8GB, but the tray ones have to be aware of the 8GB.


On another page regarding the tray-loader I read, that you have to choose the 8GB as last partition, when sizing in the diskutilities window. (another page didn't say anything about it, whether the 8GB have to be at the beginning of the partitition scheme or at the end.

Your help would be very welcome!

PS: excuse my grammar, I'm german...

Cox Orange
Jan 4, 2010, 09:35 AM
here are the source for my above mentioned things.

Her one explains the hole process for tray loaders. See step 2 "formatting & partitionioning" he mentions the 8GB, and forwards (I think one of the links in his text) he tells about structuring the partitions.
http://www.djonmac.com/drive/upgradedrive.html

Here is one who maxed out the iMac tray loader (in fact he forgot to upgrade the VRAM ;-) and said the 8GB partition must be the last created. (note djon doesn't!)
http://www.katorlegaz.com/tutorials/new_life_bondi.php

Finally a text about upgrading possibilities, where one mentions the 8GB restriction. See "Tray Loading G3 iMacs" and scroll down to "cons" and thenn scroll to the next time, where you can read the word Pros: ... Cons
http://lowendmac.com/musings/08mm/used-imac-g3-value.html

So, what is the must-do on both models, when thinking about partitioning and choosing which partition gets which OS?

MacHamster68
Jan 4, 2010, 12:12 PM
i installed os9.2.2 on a 6.5 gb partition and osx 10.3.9 on a 121.5gb partition

you need to installe os9 frist to see if you have the right firmware installed otherwise you wil get problems installing osx panther or tiger

the amount vary from website to website and user to user some say it works with up to 8 gb some with lower then 7 gb

lyam
Jan 4, 2010, 01:06 PM
yeah on that low end mac website, they said originally that under 8gb would be fine, but after more research, problems had occured with 8gb and even 7.X (cant remember exactly), so they recommended 7gb or lower instead.

tyranna
Jan 4, 2010, 03:13 PM
One question though which i off topic, is there a way of getting garage band for free on panther, as in later operatinfg systems its included in for free? There probably isnt a legal way, but i was just finding out before concluding.
i still operate an older mac and i have garageband installed on it, but it did not come as part of the original operating software package - i had to buy an older copy of iLife on ebay.

(it's been a long time since i installed it, but i think you might also need a DVD drive to install it.)

Cox Orange
Jan 5, 2010, 02:27 PM
ok, thanks for the answers!

Did anyone so far read any place else, that the small Partition has to be put in the end of the partition-sceme? (as I mentioned before the one under the second link given above says he found out he had to put the small one at the end of the sceme to have it work).

lyam
Jan 7, 2010, 02:09 PM
ok, ran into a few problems, but all i have sorted except this.

*install new hard drive, everything fine
*partitioned, first 6500mb, second around 30000mb (changed setting to partition with zeros or something and partitioned using os 8 (couldnt find borrowed os 9 disc)
*upgraded to mac os 9 when disc was found :P
*THEN went to install panther on the large partition (which i named Mac OS X) but it said: "You cannot install Mac OS X on this volume. This destination is not within the first 8gb of the hard disk".

:(

So what do i do???

If that involves repartitioning the hard drive, do i have to partition using zeros (i think that was what it was called) because that is what that dj website said to do, but it take up so much time?

It would be great if i get a reply before torrow morning as i will probably set up the partitioning tomorrow

Lyam


EDIT: i can put a picture up on request, but that would mean putting it on photobucket, although i wouldnt mind if it helps people

lyam
Jan 8, 2010, 05:32 AM
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e184/lyam_b/100_5268.jpg


and


http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e184/lyam_b/100_5269.jpg



EDIT: sorry for the image size

lyam
Jan 9, 2010, 02:17 PM
Still need help, I would be grateful for any suggestions or advice that could help me.

Please help :confused:

Cox Orange
Jan 12, 2010, 10:59 AM
Hi lyam,

I did the first step of my project, too.

This is what I did:

1. Put new HDD in an external enclosure
2. bootet my ibook G4, then plugged in the firewire cable of the external HD.
3. opened "Festplattendienstprogramm" (Harddrive Service Application???, you know that thing with the HDD and the doctors-stetoscope on it) under OS X 10.4 on my ibook.
4. partitioned the HDD with "Festplattendienstprogramm": choosing "Apple partition" from the "Options" Button (enabling it to be used with HFS+ (journaled) and as boot for PowerPC Macs). Doing this I had to face, that the numbers are not direcrly automaticly calculated right. When I put 6,5GB in the first, the second showed something higher then 140GB (being a drive with just 120GB). I typed it several times and jumped from on to the othe rpartitition, till suddently it showed the correct ratio.
5. started my iMac G3. pluged in the external HD. Drag and droped the system Folder, Library, Applications, Documents on the first partition. (while being in OS 9.1 on my iMac G3
6. while still being on OS 9.1 on my iMac G3 I clicked on the apple in the menue, then on "Kontrollfelder", then on "Startvolume". Waited a bit and then it showed: Macintosh HD (which is the OS on my iMac G3) and OS 9 and OS X 10.4, which are the partititions on my external HDD. Choosed OS 9. from the external. Clicked on "Neustart" (Reboot). And it the iMac started from this partition on the external HDD.

The next step (for me) will be, opening my friends second iMac G3, putting in the new HD (with two Partitions). powering on, and waiting what happens. If the Folder with the "?" comes, I will start it up again holding dowwn "alt". If this works. I will install the latest firmware (I can drop this, because the owner of the iMac had allreday installed 10.3, so the firmware should be the right one). At least I will put in the Tiger CD and install on the secons partition and, will see, if I get the same problem like lyam.

But I unfortunatly can only do this on the next weekend...

lyam
Jan 12, 2010, 11:18 AM
Ok, the only problem i have is that i do not have an external hard drive enclosure, but surely it should work without having to have one as i dont need to back anything up. What i will try is partitioning in panther rather than classic. I might make a new thread, as this is off topic to the original post and also there must be a solution. Do you know a way to do it without using an external hard drive enclosure? I'm now making a new thread.

EDIT: I hope it works :) i'll be waiting to hear the results

Cox Orange
Jan 12, 2010, 11:18 AM
Still need help, I would be grateful for any suggestions or advice that could help me.

Please help :confused:

someone here http://www.katorlegaz.com/tutorials/new_life_bondi.php said, you have to choose the big first, then the small, and install OS 9 in the small (last) partitition. I don't know, if this is the reason. But have a look at the link how he explains it.

The partitioning with Zeros is the savest way to erase data completely, because normally, the computer just "forgets" where he had put the data, when you delete something, allowing to overwrite it the next time you save something. But the old data can still be there in parts. The computer fills in the "holes" piece by piece. With Zeros, the computer writes constantly the same trash data. So that it gets a big consistent deleted block. If you do it without Zeros the Computer will put something there and something there just where he finds a place ("hole") to fit it in. (putting these pieces spread all over the HDD in the right order is called Defragmentation, and takes up time again).
I would do Zeros, just to be sure (but I am no Pro, so better wait for the others to answer).

Well, see it as a sport ;-) put on the formatting and go drink a coffee :-)

lyam
Jan 12, 2010, 11:47 AM
someone here http://www.katorlegaz.com/tutorials/new_life_bondi.php said, you have to choose the big first, then the small, and install OS 9 in the small (last) partitition. I don't know, if this is the reason. But have a look at the link how he explains it.

The partitioning with Zeros is the savest way to erase data completely, because normally, the computer just "forgets" where he had put the data, when you delete something, allowing to overwrite it the next time you save something. But the old data can still be there in parts. The computer fills in the "holes" piece by piece. With Zeros, the computer writes constantly the same trash data. So that it gets a big consistent deleted block. If you do it without Zeros the Computer will put something there and something there just where he finds a place ("hole") to fit it in. (putting these pieces spread all over the HDD in the right order is called Defragmentation, and takes up time again).
I would do Zeros, just to be sure (but I am no Pro, so better wait for the others to answer).

Well, see it as a sport ;-) put on the formatting and go drink a coffee :-)



yeah, i'll have to try that then.

Cox Orange
Jan 12, 2010, 12:49 PM
Can you put the link here to your new thread (allthough I don't think this is off topic, since it all has to do with installing the OS...)

I will put the following with some explanations you might allready know, but I think, if there is someone else who joins latwer, he can benefit from it.


Other ways:

1. scenario (you have 1 iMac G3 and a OS 9 CD and Panther CD):
put the OS 9 CD in and install, then connect to the internet and check for the latest firmwareupdate (needed to install OS 10.2, 10.3 or 10.4, not needed for 10-10.1), it is a newer one then that linked to on djonmac.com For safety reasons first install the one linked to at djonmac.com, then after that download this one http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75130
Easiest way to connect to the internet would be plugging in the LAN-cable (ethernet). (If you have another Mac at hand it maybe possible to download the firmware-installer on this and then transfer it to the other mac (viaburned CD or target mode, for explanation of target mode see scenario 2).
If you have then updated the fimrware, you can just put in the CD of Panther and partitition the HDD. Then install Panther in one of the partitions (because OS 9 doesn't need to be on it).
Reboot. then insert OS 9 CD and install on the other partitition.

Scenario 2 (you have two Macs).
Plug firewire cable into both. Start one. Start the second while holding down "T" on the keyboard of Mac No 2.
A purple screen appears (this is target mode).
On Mac 1, you will see an external harddrive. now you can partition the "external" Mac and after partitioning drag and drop the systemfolder on your Mac 1 on the partition of Mac2.
This will only work on firewire equipped Macs.

Here is something really helpful:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1335173

PS: !!! I forgot something important, you will have to start from the panther CD, when one wants to use the Partititioning Application.

Note: Apple says, updating the firmware can cause some RAM to not work anymore http://support.apple.com/kb/TA26424 (so maybe, if you mac won't start up after updating, you should change the RAM) (?)


IMPORTANT !! Read this first, to get the right firmware http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1395?viewlocale=en_US

lyam
Jan 12, 2010, 01:17 PM
I've decided to post the new thread after i've tried the other possible solution as i dont want to post a pointless thread, this should be done by the end of the week at the latest so i'll inform you. Thanks for the information.

Cox Orange
Jan 12, 2010, 08:00 PM
added a link at least, which lists available firmware updates, and what Model they are for. (Slot Loading iMacs need firmware 4.1.9, and tray-loaders need 1.2)

Cox Orange
Jan 14, 2010, 09:51 PM
Today I had the chance to go farward with my friends iMac.

Installation of the HDD into the iMac G3 housing worked fine and the iMac started directly from the new hardrive showing OS 9.1, which I had installed on the HDD, before I had put it into it.
Then I did target mode and move the firmwareupdater from the ibook G4 (which I just used to download it) to the iMac G3. I opened the firmwareinstaller and followed the instructions.
Now, having done this. The iMac shows the following behavior everytime I start it up. It first shows an empty folder, which changes to a folder with a question mark, the two show up ones. Then the iMac starts into OS 9.1. When the desktop can be seen everytime again, it shows the message "firmware successfully updated". There is nothing like "don't show this message again" or so. So everytime there is a "beep" and this message. Also, since I have changed the HD the clock nags that it is not synchronous. Which is normally because of an empty Puffer-Battery. Which I will replace. But I am wondering, that it didn't appear before changeing the HDD.

Anyways, I tried to install Tiger. But I only had an Image. Which I opened and I could go to the Install screen, which said I should "restart". I did, but the iMac did start into OS 9 all the time never giving the possibility to do something with the DVD. I also tried holding dowwn "alt" or "c", but had no success. I will now try it with the original Tiger DVD.

There is another thing. I don't know wether I just didn't notice it, the first time I started up in OS 9.1 with the new HDD, but today, when I started it to do the firmwareinstall and Tiger, it seemed to me, that after the firmwareupdate it is constantly going very hot. I'm wondering if this could be because of the HDD, a WD with 120GB, 7200rpm, 8MB Buffer, from 2004. I heard from other people using 7200rpm HDDs that they had no Problems and less people who reported the heat issue. I will now have to test, wether the heat doesn't slow the iMac down. (I had my own iMac G3 stoping from doing anything in the hot summer of 2003, where there was 40C all over europe, when I used it during daytime, at nights it was cold enough, that it worked fine. By the way the iMac had the original HDD with 4200rpm).

lyam
Jan 15, 2010, 01:16 PM
hmmm, well that seems weird, now formatting new hard drive again which the large partition first. my iMac gets quite hot and i decided to clean the fan out when i purchase and install the ram. i will let you know how i get on

lyam
Jan 16, 2010, 09:34 AM
i had to make three partitions

mac os x 1 (7gb)
mac os x 2 (20-30gb)
mac os 9 (6.5gb)

i could find a way round that problem, i tried putting the bigger os x partition first, but it said it has to be within 8gb

MacHamster68
Jan 16, 2010, 09:55 AM
:eek::confused::eek::confused:
my osx panther partition is 121.5 gb big and my os9 covers the rest of 6.5
and i did install os9 first to see if the firmware is uptodate
and after i installed panther in the first 121.5 gb and the os9 at the rest
ok now as i have two iMac g3's i installed tiger on the fast 700mhz imac using the whole 120gb harddrive :confused:

lyam
Jan 16, 2010, 02:00 PM
:eek::confused::eek::confused:
my osx panther partition is 121.5 gb big and my os9 covers the rest of 6.5
and i did install os9 first to see if the firmware is uptodate
and after i installed panther in the first 121.5 gb and the os9 at the rest
ok now as i have two iMac g3's i installed tiger on the fast 700mhz imac using the whole 120gb harddrive :confused:

how did you do it? :eek: seriously, you must have done something different? now making a new thread


NEW THREAD ===== http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=9097039&posted=1#post9097039

Cox Orange
Jan 21, 2010, 09:25 PM
Hello guys,

I am in a hurry and will report how my project worked out soon. But I just wanted to tell you, that I have found the reason, for the flashing question mark (which appears just one time).

Apple Support reports, that this can be the case sometimes, if the PRAM Battery is empty for a long time and you have installed a new OS after that. Note it is not the Computer searching a long time, just shortly flashing once from an empty folder to a question mark and then to the Systemfolder-Symbol.

They recommend to reset the PRAM. I couldn't do this for now, cause I haven't come arround to my friend this week.

I hooked up an external drive to my ibook via firewire. Put in the ibook Tiger CD and installed a new Tiger from the optical drive in my ibook onto the external drive. After that I did a restart and the ibook started from the external HDD. I then connected the external drive to my own iMAc G3 just to test, if it would start from this external OS, holding down "alt" during startup. And it did. So I guess I can put Tiger on my friend's iMac this way, too. (I did this job, because my attempt to install Tiger from a retail DVD to my friend's iMac failed after half of the installation done.)

!!! But since then my ibook kept looking for the external drive first (until it seemed to some kind of "remember that it had its own HDD in it with an OS ;-), showing the same flashing question mark as my friend's iMac after installing OS 9.1.

So I did a PRAM reset on my ibook. It seems faster now (it had problems the last time, before the whole installation action) and after setting personal settings everything is fine and it keeps starting from the installed OS rigth away without first searching.

!!! Now, since I have done the PRAM reset my ibook doesn't find all documents via spotlight and I have not menaged to find a solution to this problem. Any guesses?

@lyam: did you check the HDD for failing sectors? Maybe the HDD is defective and the missing of some sectors is the reason it can't find a section bigger than 8GB? (just guessing, I am not profound on this things).

PS: found a work arround for the forgetting files Problem after resetting PRAM. It seems that only Apple Work files and Folders are affected and can't be found in Spotlight. I now found out, if you open the work files and save them again (it is enough just typing a spacebar or so and then clicking on save), they can be found in spotlight again. Folders have to be created newly and old ones deleted. Unfortunately.

Cox Orange
Feb 23, 2011, 12:12 PM
another important info iMac g3 can only see up to 128gb harddrives internal , but
external no limit

if you use a 160GB HDD it will use the drive (but still not recognizing everything over 128GB), but somewhen it will write out of the 128GB space and the drive will get problems. (I got an answer from hitachi, they confirmed that the computer will somewhen start writing in places over the 128GB and will get problems including not booting, corrupted data). You will not notice that in the beginning of use.

PS: edited my last post because of false information.