G5 iMac Specs?

[Frobozz]

I am aware of cheaper monitor offerings. I've (annoyingly) become accustomed to the widescreen format. Which you pay an ever greater premium for than Apple externally. :rolleyes:

And I don't think choosing an iMac over a PowerMac because of a "monitor issue" is a Bad Thing. What do you look at all day? I spend my day having code on one side of the screen and documents/visualisations on the other. The monitor makes the machine. My productivity is most closely tied to my ability to refer to things whilst coding at the same time. A PowerMac over an iMac would be *nice* for when I actually run code, but I can't afford it. I'm sorry if that sounds like it makes me a lesser student.

iMacs *do* represent excellent value when the base is coupled with the price of the monitor slapped on. Why is that value not passed onto the external monitors?

I think you should consider 2 third party LCDs. If you want decent space, get two 18 inch 1280 x 1024 monitors. You can probably have 2 nice ones (identical) for less than $1,100. Or, try out dual 1600 x 1200 monitors for about $1,700 (Dell or maybe Viewsonic).

The best part about the dual monitor setup is that you stick with the more expandable PowerMac and you can devote one entire monitor to your secondarily imporant apps. Think: monitors, debuggers, application palettes, etc. The main monitor can be used for your main application window like XCode, Photoshop, BBEdit or whatever.

The cost of 2 dual third party LCDs is less than one of Apple's. It's a good alternative if money is an issue, and it does offer some advantages to a single monitor setup.

[iBoris]

Welcome to the forum. Looks like you're looking at things objectively, which is something some of the more extreme posters should consider.

Thanks for the welcome Frobozz. :)

One last thing, I forgot to add.

Realy, if you want to play games (and this comes from a long time gamer) get a console. Any of the 3 consoles can provide a far greater game playing experience than the cost of a top line graphics card.

Pc games sales have been dropping steadily over the years and will likely continue to do so as console become more powerful.

It also means your kids don't tie up your computer when you need to use it.

[Lewisham]

I think you should consider 2 third party LCDs. If you want decent space, get two 18 inch 1280 x 1024 monitors. You can probably have 2 nice ones (identical) for less than $1,100. Or, try out dual 1600 x 1200 monitors for about $1,700 (Dell or maybe Viewsonic).

Mmm, this is something I have considered. Two monitors is real nice, I'd been running a CRT with my Powerbook before I sold it. It's pretty much the only way of coding full-screen apps. I've become accostomed to putting terminal readouts/chat windows/email on one monitor and code on the other.

Sadly, this might *just* be out of my price range. I'll have to do some mathmatics in the Apple Store in SF with the sales guys and see what figures come out. Then tell them how lovely they are and run off and order from the Apple Edu store :)

I'll figure out how to ship all my kit home in a year when the time comes ;)

We'll see I suppose :o The Chamelon case thing sounds interesting :D

Thanks for your help man

[MrSugar]

16, that is the number of pages I got through on this thread before I got fed up and decided to post.

Are some of the specs on the iMac disapointing? Yes, the HD, RAM, and Gfx card are not what I would expect. That being said, I am completely suprised at the responses and lack of common sense being expressed by a large majority of the posts in this thread. Everyone is overlooking the fact that..... are you ready, the iMac comes with a large HIGH quality Apple LCD display.

STOP making comparisons to Dell's that cost $799, they are not in the same league. The Apple 20" monitor costs $1299 alone! Now for an extra $1000 you get a G5 machine with great style and ease of use. Has anyone else seem the current 20" imac up close? The display is beautiful, as are all apple displays. Even 17 lcd's (over the resolution of 1024, and less than a 40ms response time) are around $500. That is $500 that it seems like many of you are just throwing out the window.

If you think about it, take the top end iMac for $2200, remove $1299 for the 20" and you are left with a $900 G5. I really don't know how else to put it... it just seems like some of the apple users on this forum get greedy and overlook the quality of product that Apple provides. I am sure the new iMac will be amazing.

[haunebu]

I'm sure a lot of people would stop complaining, maybe even actually buy one, if Apple would just put a halfway respectable GPU in the thing. Sure, the screen is nice, as is the G5 processor, RAM can be upgraded cheaply - but that soldered on video card is by far the weakest link in the chain.

Make the new iMac able to play Doom 3, and they'll have a hot seller (and increase the incentive games developers have to develop for the Mac).

[Frobozz]

You already know Macs. Thats the difference. The question was and still is - how to convince PC users to switch. And if this graphics card crap comes true you will not find may. And believe me - most teenagers know what state of the art technology is. Sure they have no glue how to fix them. But they can compare and they do compare raw numbers.

Good that you stay with Macs anyway.

Your premise is sound but your logic is flawed. I just don't see how you can correlate a teenager knowing how to compare numbers to knowing what state of the art is. That simply isn't a valid arguement. You have a great point about how to get people to switch when all they can do is compare numbers, though. I think it's extended by the fact that people are, more often than not, exposed to more PC's. A lot of people will consider what is comfortable to them, and price. Those that can afford more will consider style or save up their money to afford style and comfort-- like getting a Mac.

That's why the Apple store is so great. You're never going to get people who don't want to spend money to buy a Mac, but you WILL get people who see the value in a better experience if they are exposed to it.

[Frobozz]

I'm sure a lot of people would stop complaining, maybe even actually buy one, if Apple would just put a halfway respectable GPU in the thing. Sure, the screen is nice, as is the G5 processor, RAM can be upgraded cheaply - but that soldered on video card is by far the weakest link in the chain.

Make the new iMac able to play Doom 3, and they'll have a hot seller (and increase the incentive games developers have to develop for the Mac).

Yes. I agree. As much as I think the iMac would be great for consumers, it sure wouldn't help Apple's game sales or give incentive for game makers to push the limits on games.

I have defended the gfx card choice a lot, but I have to conceed that Apple would be missing the opportunity to make it a great game machine. For example, why not offer a iMac gamer edition with pimped out specs? I doubt that would cannibalize PowerBook or PowerMac sales, since they are such different goals (for the most part.)

[Frobozz]

Thanks for the welcome Frobozz. :)

One last thing, I forgot to add.

Realy, if you want to play games (and this comes from a long time gamer) get a console. Any of the 3 consoles can provide a far greater game playing experience than the cost of a top line graphics card.

Pc games sales have been dropping steadily over the years and will likely continue to do so as console become more powerful.

It also means your kids don't tie up your computer when you need to use it.

Agreed. I compliment my mac gaming, which I find to be very satisfying, with a PS2. Couldn't be happier.

[isgoed]

16, that is the number of pages I got through on this thread before I got fed up and decided to post.

Are some of the specs on the iMac disapointing? Yes, the HD, RAM, and Gfx card are not what I would expect. That being said, I am completely suprised at the responses and lack of common sense being expressed by a large majority of the posts in this thread. Everyone is overlooking the fact that..... are you ready, the iMac comes with a large HIGH quality Apple LCD display.

STOP making comparisons to Dell's that cost $799, they are not in the same league. The Apple 20" monitor costs $1299 alone! Now for an extra $1000 you get a G5 machine with great style and ease of use. Has anyone else seem the current 20" imac up close? The display is beautiful, as are all apple displays. Even 17 lcd's (over the resolution of 1024, and less than a 40ms response time) are around $500. That is $500 that it seems like many of you are just throwing out the window.

If you think about it, take the top end iMac for $2200, remove $1299 for the 20" and you are left with a $900 G5. I really don't know how else to put it... it just seems like some of the apple users on this forum get greedy and overlook the quality of product that Apple provides. I am sure the new iMac will be amazing.

That is exactly the problem. The screen is great, but why attach all that secondrated hardware to it. In two years, the New iMac will come out and you can throw away a $1299 screen. These specs are just not future proof.

Furthermore it is a very weird business approach. For the same $1299, I can buy THREE high quality 17" screens. Consumers will notice it and most of them rather spend that money on making their iMac future proof. Wouldn't it be nice if there were "buy to order options" to get a 2.5Ghz G5, a geforce 6800, or 2Gb of ram?

[MrSugar]

That is exactly the problem. The screen is great, but why attach all that secondrated hardware to it. In two years, the New iMac will come out and you can throw away a $1299 screen. These specs are just not future proof.

Furthermore it is a very weird business approach. For the same $1299, I can buy THREE high quality 17" screens. Consumers will notice it and most of them rather spend that money on making their iMac future proof. Wouldn't it be nice if there were "buy to order options" to get a 2.5Ghz G5, a geforce 6800, or 2Gb of ram?

Yes, I completely agree!!!

[stuepfnick]

The education iMac is probably fine the way it is but I think the other 2 new iMacs should be as follows:

• 17" widescreen display
- Single 1.6GHz G5 Processor
- slot-loading Combo drive (SuperDrive optional)
- 80GB Serial ATA hard drive (160, 250GB optional)
- 512MB of DDR SDRAM (4 slots up to 4GB)
- 512K L2 cache
- NVIDIA GeForce MX 5200 Ultra w/ 64MB of DDR vram
- VGA video output, S-video and composite video output
- 56K internal modem
- 10/100/1000BASE-T Ethernet
- two FireWire 800 ports
- three USB 2.0 ports
- two USB 1.1 ports on the keyboard.

• 20" widescreen display
- Single 1.8GHz G5 processor
- slot-loading SuperDrive
- 160GB Serial ATA hard drive (250GB optional)
- 512MB of DDR SDRAM (4 slots up to 4GB)
- ATI Radeon 9600 XT w/ 128MB of DDR vram
- All other features will be the same as the 17-inch models.

Nono no and NO! It needs this to get me buy one:

• 17" Screen (20" is too expensive to be lost with my next buy again!)
• 1.6 (or better 1.8 Ghz)
• 256 MB DDR RAM (or whatever - doesn't matter - RAM upgrade is cheap - max. 4 GB would be good)
• 80 GB HD (not important as well - have 160 GB FW Disk, but want S-ATA!)
• Superdrive (don't want to downgrade!)
• Radeon 9800 with 128 MB or GeForce 5700-5900 with 128 or a changeable card or BTO otions for this! (this is most important! - I want a good card for games, motion, core image/video, etc.)
• all Video outputs mentioned
•*Audio-In (maybe video in too)
•*10/100/1000 Ethernet (but only 100 MBit won't be a big problem)
• 2 Firewire 400 (1 firewire 800 too can't be harmful)
• 3 USB 2.0 ports (don't need the 2.0 at all - but firewire is extremely important to me - video, harddisk, ipod, etc.)
• Pro Speaker again or at least the connector

That for a reasonable price and I will upgrade!

I now have an iMac G4/800 17" with 512 MB SD-RAM with GeForce4MX-32MB, 80 GB HD, Superdrive, Apple Pro Speaker with iSub

The new specs sound really fully ok, except of the extremely weak graphics chip!

The FX5200 is not really an upgrade to mine. It has Vertex and Pixel shaders, but it has a slower! memory bandwith, etc. it has about the same fillrate as my card, etc.

So I got this in 2002, I want something better in 2004, can't you understand this?? I really love the screen and when I change to a G5 Tower I'll have to go with a CRT and a lot of power usage, etc.
A single G5 with a (at least half way) decent graphics card would suffice! So I can afford the bundled 17" widescreen display. BTW: I will never ever buy any non-widescreen TFT anymore! Thos are real crap, compared to 16:10...

But I'll wait... a 17" iMac G5 with at least a Radeon 9600XT with 128 MB, I'd buy, everything below not! I don't just want a new processor and keep the rest the same of the old imac (nearly)!

Also time has come to get something a little decent for the powermacs, it could move up one step in GFX boards:

Dual 1.8 Ghz: Radeon 9600 XT 128 MB - standard
Dual 2.0 Ghz: "–"
Dual 2.5 Ghz: Radeon 9800 XT 256 MB - standard

Also they could speed bump the 1.8 and 2.0 models to 2.0 and 2.2 Ghz, so there is space for the new iMac with 1.8 Ghz and 2.0 Ghz single processor.
And they could introduce PCI-Express to use Ati's new line-up, up to the ATI X800.

I really wonder how many of this crappy Nvidia GeForceFX5200 cards Apple bought 2 years ago, when they where released....

btw: the cheapest GFX board to buy is: GeForceFX5200Ultra with 128MB!! for about 50$, it is very hard to get still a card with only 64 MB these days!

[aidamahn]

Agreed. I compliment my mac gaming, which I find to be very satisfying, with a PS2. Couldn't be happier.

I do the same thing. It is cheaper in the long run becuase a console will not be outdated for years. video cards have gotten crazy recently.

--Jeremy

[NusuniAdmin]

I do the same thing. It is cheaper in the long run becuase a console will not be outdated for years. video cards have gotten crazy recently.

--Jeremy

definitly.

Thats interesting...my name is jeremy and i also live near syracuse....hmmm...

[Surreal]

Graphics card is the only thing i REALLY want changed. (if this is true)

not even a complaint. i may buy it anyway. i don't game heavily, BUT the card IS old. and outdated. while some people are complaining a bit much considering this is just a rumor, i understand that BECAUSE THE CARD WILL NOT BE REPLACEABLE, they have a higher interest in what card is chosen.

it makes sense.

if they were told that they could replace it, (even better would be an empty agp slot..2 cards?), some complaints would remain about price (imac+card) but it would be much less fevered.

but, i think all you like minded complainers should get together and pose one argument...so that there are less posts for me to read ;)

[TWinbrook46636]

The problem is that this is supposed to be an entirely new generation model yet many of the specs are unchanged. The graphics chip, memory size, hard drive size and optical drive are all unchanged. There are minor improvements under the hood but it really seems like someone is just taking guesses based on the current (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/72501/wo/jM4irIDqIYlM2tAS0TJ16jYJemQ/0.0.9.1.0.6.21.1.2.1.1.0.0.1.0) lineup. Take a look.

[Bonnie]

It IS a bit disappointing. I have owned many iMacs in the past, but this new model's supposed form and specs just lack the Wow factor that previous models had.

I'm really hoping it's wrong.

And what is with Apple putting that NVIDIA GeForce FX in their higher end machines? Is it so people purposely order BTO and shell out extra cash?

This is just yet another reason I haven't bought a revision A product in a long time. It seems like they purposely limit the specs so they will eventually have a spectaculary revision B. Plus who KNOWS how the G5 will do in this new form factor.

Sounds to me like Buyer Beware. I'll believe this rumor when I actually see it. :rolleyes:

[aidamahn]

definitly.

Thats interesting...my name is jeremy and i also live near syracuse....hmmm...

hmmm... do you like macs too?

:p

[JonathanIve]

I can not say how I have come in to possession of the first drafts of what will be the new iMac G5. This is an exclusive first look at the design of the iMac G5, and I can assure you that it is legit. It may not be on the message boards for too long, as it will be probable that Apple will order a legal cease and desist over these sketches.

PS. These sketches are the same ones that this forum alluded to having possession of earlier in July.

Enjoy.

http://homepage.mac.com/untitled5/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2004-08-16%2019.37.40%20-0700/Image-34538298EFF611D8.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/untitled5/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2004-08-16%2019.37.40%20-0700/Image-34539876EFF611D8.jpg

These are the first drafts of Ive's work, done in graphite, brainstormed and brought straight from his mind to the paper. The actual design may very SLIGHTLY from these photos. I have a close relatioship with the source of these photos, it took many months of heavy persuasion tactics before he relented and let me have them.

[Doctor Q]

I can not say how I have come in to possession of the first drafts of what will be the new iMac G5. This is an exclusive first look at the design of the iMac G5, and I can assure you that it is legit. It may not be on the message boards for too long, as it will be probable that Apple will order a legal cease and desist over these sketches.

PS. These sketches are the same ones that this forum alluded to having possession of earlier in July.

These are the first drafts of Ive's work, done in graphite, brainstormed and brought straight from his mind to the paper. The actual design may very SLIGHTLY from these photos. I have a close relatioship with the source of these photos, it took many months of heavy persuasion tactics before he relented and let me have them.Excuse me for being a bit skeptical.

By the way, why would you betray your close friend?

[quagmire]

Excuse me for being a bit skeptical.

By the way, why would you betray your close friend?

Don't believe him. He said at another forum his friend drew it. He is a bad bad Messiahtosh.

[JonathanIve]

Don't believe him. He said at another forum his friend drew it. He is a bad bad Messiahtosh.Quagmire is full of it, believe me. The reason I betrayed him? 15 minutes of fame, man. I hate knowing this famous guy, then have to go pick up YOUR trash, as I am a sanitation engineer.

[quagmire]

Quagmire is full of it, believe me. The reason I betrayed him? 15 minutes of fame, man. I hate knowing this famous guy, then have to go pick up YOUR trash, as I am a sanitation engineer.

Full of it. Sure I am full of it. You can not deny proof.

http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?p=22430#post22430

PS: He is the 7th to last post on the last page. His user name is Messiahtosh. His friend drew it. As so he claims.

[Converted2Truth]

Don't believe him. He said at another forum his friend drew it. He is a bad bad Messiahtosh.
...and apparently a bad artist as well :)
We shall all see soon enough what this new iMac looks like. Hopefully however, they'll have enough time to go back and drop a different GPU in it. I don't know anyone with a brain that will buy one of these with that 5200 p.o.s.. And with that recent rumor about what qualifies an apple display for replacement when it has pixel anomylies(sp)(i.e., dead pixels)...

I wouldn't buy an apple display from them without testing it first now. This new iMac sounds more and more like a gamble every day... but hey! i've not even seen it yet. ahhh!

[o1b2]

about time they past up the G4 chip there. Nice to see the G5 processor making it way into more of there machine, like to see it in a laptop.
One pieace design, humm? any thing should look better than the borning design of the current imac.

[FYA]

These specs are crap, thank god it's a rumor.

PowerBook G5, soon ? :rolleyes:

[iJon]

These specs are crap, thank god it's a rumor.

PowerBook G5, soon ? :rolleyes:
yeah, cause you know thinksecret has a really bad track record and all :rolleyes:

iJon

[crees!]

Seems a few posts have disappeared since last night. Thank you Mod. Despite these drawings I can't wait to see what it actually looks like come the end of this month.

[Bad Beaver]

PowerBook G5, soon ? :rolleyes:

Well, next tuesday I would guess ;)

[mata]

$30 USB key, then they are a lot richer than mine here in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn.

I work in a "hard to staff" school with more than 90% of the students entitled to free breakfast and lunch. We are *not* networked, the only support is the technology teacher, who gets no free periods to actually *do* technical support. The only software available for the computers in our classrooms is what we get for ourselves. Since we have no network, computers without optical drives are useless. Our situation is not at all atypical in this -- and many other -- urban schools districts.

[Chomolungma]

Lets face it, the home desktop computer is being replace by the laptop. I think I'm an average user, and usually the average is the majority. I can't think of a reason to buy an iMac now. I had many reasons a few years ago. The only computer I'm considering buying for the home now is a powerbook. It is just a lot more convenient to take work home or bring work to work. My 12 year old nephew wants a laptop, and he refuses to consider a desktop. I can see some gamers wanting a desktop with a big screen, but obviously the iMac doesn't fit that. Looking forward, I don't see the iMac sale going up, unless it can brake into the business world. As for the education market specifically from K to 12, I think sale will stay at the same level. Laptop is where is at; for most people and even for professional who may use a powermac at work. If this is the trend, Apple should spend a lot more effort into portable tools e.g. iBook and dare i say an electronic notebook (some call it tablet).

Chomo

[Lewisham]

Lets face it, the home desktop computer is being replace by the laptop.

Hmm, it's funny. Everyone says that, but I'm going the other way around :D

I like having a keyboard and mouse. My PowerBook spent most of it's time attached to an external monitor/keyboard/mouse at home. I almost never took it into Uni. Maybe I was scared of breaking it :) I just did the majority of my work at home.

I don't think it's time for the swansong of the desktop, maybe just something new. Removable screens with wireless links sound like the way things should go. Free the user from the desktop, but not the house.

Only Apple could bring that sort of innovation, and only on the iMac line could it ever happen. Maybe that will be the One Last Thing :D

Chris

[Bad Beaver]

Hmm, it's funny. Everyone says that, but I'm going the other way around :D

Right on. Had no desktop since 98, and now I want to get one (if the new iMac is nice). Real notebooks are still too heavy and inconvenient for me to take to campus. I just take my Newton, where the good thing is that I don't even have to check the charge before leaving, it has never run dry on me in three years. At home I now just want a powerful machine with a high-res screen that is cost efficient, and no worries about hinges, dead batteries and whatnot.

[diehlr]

I can't believe they're using a GeForce 5200. That thing is a bandwidth starved, 64-bit memory bus, complete piece of underwhelming garbage.

[FYA]

yeah, cause you know thinksecret has a really bad track record and all :rolleyes:


Yes, but it will be a rumor until Apple give the specs.

And it doesn't change the fact that if the new iMac has those specs it will be kind of crap.

[FYA]

Well, next tuesday I would guess ;)

If only that were true. :rolleyes:

[Chomolungma]

Hmm, it's funny. Everyone says that, but I'm going the other way around :D

I like having a keyboard and mouse. My PowerBook spent most of it's time attached to an external monitor/keyboard/mouse at home. I almost never took it into Uni. Maybe I was scared of breaking it :) I just did the majority of my work at home.

I don't think it's time for the swansong of the desktop, maybe just something new. Removable screens with wireless links sound like the way things should go. Free the user from the desktop, but not the house.

Only Apple could bring that sort of innovation, and only on the iMac line could it ever happen. Maybe that will be the One Last Thing :D

Chris

I think you make a good point. To each his or her own, I guess. I have a keyboard and mouse at home, which i connect them to my powerbook. This set up seems to work fine for me. I have too many files, that I like to have at my fingertip, and keeping it in one place helps a lot. the current powerbook is certainly not ideal, but I think it will eventually be better e.g. lighter and longer battery life. I like the iMac too, however, I don't see a need for it in my lifestyle. Perhaps I don't look at a computer like most people i.e. a machine to which you try to operate it by its term. I computer should conform to me. i don't want to have to set up a desk specifically for it.

-Chomo

[Jagga]

If this design is similar to what is on this link

http://apple.weblogsinc.com/entry/1128136479381114/

then I'm owning it like yesterday.

Specs are one thing and Apple has surprised us before and even given us huge long life with previous macs : case in points....The Macintosh all sales were spoken for all delayed shipments for 2 years after 1984!! If you're old enough to have even owned one I'm sure you remember the joy of that machine. specs didn't compare to what IBM or NEC was doing or was equal to but it was the only one in Color and could similate voice!! 2nd is the iMac THE BEST SELLING PERSONAL COMPUTER OF ALL TIME --you and ya grandma got one; NUFF SAID (specs vs usuability again usuability with OS came out on top). Now I think the Cube failed because of the ports orientation; just remember the attempt at the LC models being successful was due to the present competition lack of drive and resources as a collective juggernaut. Apple tried for years at a consumer version no screen tower in many iterations of the 8600 series PowerMac. albeit with help of the clone wars these hurt Apple to a tear. I for one never want to see that again.

[FYA]

If this design is similar to what is on this link

http://apple.weblogsinc.com/entry/1128136479381114/

then I'm owning it like yesterday.


nice, it would be like buying a display and getting a new Cube for free.

I would buy one just for the display, and use the cube as backup. :D

[Converted2Truth]

Now i would buy one of these! this is what the new iMac should be. Only complaint i have is that it should be larger... allowing for full length slots. This is only an artists rendition of what it should be. He's good, and IMHO should be working for apple :D This cube rocks! :D
http://mackompass.de/images/stories/apple/iMac_G5.jpg

[kenaustus]

Notebook -v- desktop? I'm using a new 23" display next to a 2 month old 15" PB and I gotta tell you that the PB display, while great, doesn't come close to the 23". A very big factor with the iMac is the potential of a screen that is the same quality as the 23". I'll buy the 20" for home on Day One.

Don't like the 5200 GPU? Don't worry - from new reports of potential shortages of G5 chips you won't be able to get one until sometime next year if you spend too much time complaining about the GPU and too little time looking at ordering. At least the 5200 might push back the day when Apple starts the backorder list instead of delivering from inventory when an order is placed. I'm betting that the backorders will hit 2 - 4 weeks after the iMac is released and after getting one for Christmas will be difficult. There are going to be too many people (me included) who will place their order fast while others are moaning.

2 weeks to go. :D

[msilsby]

Right on. Had no desktop since 98, and now I want to get one (if the new iMac is nice). Real notebooks are still too heavy and inconvenient for me to take to campus. I just take my Newton, where the good thing is that I don't even have to check the charge before leaving, it has never run dry on me in three years. At home I now just want a powerful machine with a high-res screen that is cost efficient, and no worries about hinges, dead batteries and whatnot.

I agree too. I have had a powerbook G4 for the last year, and although I love it to death, I am looking forward to getting a G5 desktop with a bigger display. Ideally, I would love a G5 cube, although, yes, I know it will probably never happen.

http://mackompass.de/images/stories/apple/iMac_G5.jpg

*drool*

[CmdrLaForge]

$30 USB key, then they are a lot richer than mine here in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn.

I work in a "hard to staff" school with more than 90% of the students entitled to free breakfast and lunch. We are *not* networked, the only support is the technology teacher, who gets no free periods to actually *do* technical support. The only software available for the computers in our classrooms is what we get for ourselves. Since we have no network, computers without optical drives are useless. Our situation is not at all atypical in this -- and many other -- urban schools districts.

I really don't understand your problem ! Why are you not just ordering the ones with the drive ?

[Lewisham]

I have too many files, that I like to have at my fingertip, and keeping it in one place helps a lot.

Yeah, having to SSH into my laptop to get files onto one of my comp lab's Linux machines and then being forced to use some substandard text editor was my biggest problem. It is a serious pain when you spend all day thinking "My Mac could have done this in half the time" :D

And get Salling Clicker for your PB. I used my PB to deliver presentations. Whilst the other mugs had to walk over to their machine and click a button for the next slide, I just moved straight on.

The audience:

:eek:

Chris

[csubear]

I agree too. I have had a powerbook G4 for the last year, and although I love it to death, I am looking forward to getting a G5 desktop with a bigger display. Ideally, I would love a G5 cube, although, yes, I know it will probably never happen.

http://mackompass.de/images/stories/apple/iMac_G5.jpg

*drool*

Sorry there will never be a cube :( . Its going to be that 17" display in the picture with a G5 straped on the back of the display.

And i just went and looked that the new apple displays. The VESA mounts that they use can rotate, and can rotate like the current I-macs.

[Converted2Truth]

Sorry there will never be a cube :( . Its going to be that 17" display in the picture with a G5 straped on the back of the display.

And i just went and looked that the new apple displays. The VESA mounts that they use can rotate, and can rotate like the current I-macs.
A cube is exactly what the apple community needs. The only reason it didn't work before was because Jobs got the pricing really screwed up. I'd buy an upgradable cube w/o an LCD over an iMac w/LCD even if both were the same price. Bottom line is... apple needs a single processor line-up that's upgradable... for the mac gamers and the mac users that aren't stupid.

[Lepton]

Right. The problem with the cube was not the form factor. Release a new cube, and a new 17" flat panel display to go with it.

[Lepton]

OK, here's my official prediction, and it's based on the rumor.

First, release a new display, a 17" size that looks like the others. As we know, all displays are flat, thin, with a standard mount in the middle of the back and a single cable connector, with other handy connectors on the side. The standard mount is attached to a nice stand, but it is removeable to allow for other mounts, such as a VESA standard one.

Now, imagine a box the same size as the new small display, about 17" diagonal, about 1" thick. This is the new iMac. On the front side of the middle of the box there is a mount that can attach very nicely and snugly to the mount on the back of the 17" display. The middle of the box also has a connector that mounts snugly to the single wire connector coming out of the back of the displays. And on the back of the box is another mount. You can attach the display's stand to it, or some other mount, such as a VESA standard one.

Together, we have a single, two-layer box about 17" diagonal and two inches thick. We simply added another inch to the thickness of the display, and turned our display into an iMac. Some additional connectors, and an optical disk slot is on the thin side of the unit.

You have 1) A sleek iMac that looks similar to the display line. [And kinda like the rumor that started this thread] 2) You can slap this on the back of the 20" or 23" displays just as easily. 3) You can mount the thing on your desk upright using the stand from the display, or remove the stand and put it flat on your desk, or replace the stand with a VESA or other mount, to HANG IT ON A WALL. 4) You can buy the normal 17" display/iMac box bundle, or bundled with bigger displays, or with no display at all for use as a HEADLESS MAC.

A thing of beauty.

[titaniumducky]

OK, here's my official prediction, and it's based on the rumor.

First, release a new display, a 17" size that looks like the others. As we know, all displays are flat, thin, with a standard mount in the middle of the back and a single cable connector, with other handy connectors on the side. The standard mount is attached to a nice stand, but it is removeable to allow for other mounts, such as a VESA standard one.

Now, imagine a box the same size as the new small display, about 17" diagonal, about 1" thick. This is the new iMac. On the front side of the middle of the box there is a mount that can attach very nicely and snugly to the mount on the back of the 17" display. The middle of the box also has a connector that mounts snugly to the single wire connector coming out of the back of the displays. And on the back of the box is another mount. You can attach the display's stand to it, or some other mount, such as a VESA standard one.

Together, we have a single, two-layer box about 17" diagonal and two inches thick. We simply added another inch to the thickness of the display, and turned our display into an iMac. Some additional connectors, and an optical disk slot is on the thin side of the unit.

You have 1) A sleek iMac that looks similar to the display line. [And kinda like the rumor that started this thread] 2) You can slap this on the back of the 20" or 23" displays just as easily. 3) You can mount the thing on your desk upright using the stand from the display, or remove the stand and put it flat on your desk, or replace the stand with a VESA or other mount, to HANG IT ON A WALL. 4) You can buy the normal 17" display/iMac box bundle, or bundled with bigger displays, or with no display at all for use as a HEADLESS MAC.

A thing of beauty.

You've got something there...

The only thing is at 1", I doubt a G5 could go in there (unless it's the rumored dual-core G4 :D).

Besides the G5 problem, such an iMac would probably be limited to laptop parts (making it more expensive and less powerful (for the price)).

[MacG]

Sorry if this has been covered in the past 20 or so pages of this thread, but thinking that the pizza-box all in one could be cool for portability. I'd prefer to have a desktop, but if this thing were compact enough the 17" or 20" version could fit in a nylon bag with the keyboard, mouse and power block and voila, portable G5 ready to take to a buddy's house. IMO - That would be very handy. :)

[CholEoptera36]

After reading the first 10 pages of posts I've obtained enough about the topic to put my two cents in...

A few points about the configuration posted:

1) I just bought a combo drive eMac at 1.25GHz and it came with 10.3 Panther. I didn't buy any greater memory than 256MB to keep the price down, but it's evident that I have to upgrade asap because it's rather sluggish. Even if all I'm doing is running firefox, iChat, and iTunes at the same time it's slow. I wish Apple would up the minimum requirement of memory on the new iMacs although not likely. Considering that in 4-5 months everybody's going to Tiger, 256MB memory might create that same sluggish performace I have with Panther. Imagine trying to do that whole water ripple with desktop widgets on Tiger when you only have 256MB of memory... I'd like to see them upgrade the minimal memory a notch, perhaps to 512MB. Maybe it's just me but I think 256MB of memory on almost any new system now days is rather outdated. It isn't a huge deal, but it makes me wonder how well the system will perform on the upcoming Tiger with only 256MB of memory. More memory as a standard would be refreshing.

(I'm not saying it won't work on 256MB memory, of course it will. It'll just be slooooooooooooooow...needing an upgrade later like many eMacs and iBooks bought on the standard 256MB memory).

2) The processor at least needs to be G5, and atleast running at 1.6GHz for the low end model like stated in the original configuration post. That's only 450MHz more than what my G4 eMac has... so atleast that much. I'd rather see all iMacs move to 2.0GHz and up to start the transition out of the 1.xGHz range from here on out for the at home user. That's not really beyond reason to me, considering the 1.6GHz G5 was released this time a year ago. If we're still stuck in the 1.xGHz processors then atleast we know we can expect to see something outrageously innovative about the new iMacs. Apple most likely won't fail in that catagory. No matter what the configuration is we know we can expect it to have kool features no other mac has.

The processor speed increase and total upgrade from G4 to G5 architecture will do wonders for individual tasks... but I think for multi-tasking it's about time that the standard memory is a little higher than 256MB. New iMacs with better processors AND more memory, yeah that's more like it. In some cases I would take more memory over more megahertz...

Just some thoughts.

[Rantipole]

I hope that the implication that the eMac is going away is unfounded. That's a good comp for that market.

That said, I don't understand people's concerns about the LCD screen being too fragile. Can't you just buy a plastic protector, that can take the kid's pencil jabs and finger points?

[FFTT]

I realise that most of the more experienced users would prefer a headless
iMac G5 system that allows for individual display preferences, way better graphics support and expandability, but we can only guess how much computer Apple thinks the average user may want or need.

The reviews are mixed, however
this AIO protoype from mackompass.de seems to look much more like
something Apple might go with for the expected Apple wow factor and space saving, modern desktop design.

I just don't think they would revert to the cube, no matter how many of us would like them to.

http://mackompass.de/images/stories/apple/imac_g5_aio.jpg

[mixgrafix]

I ran across this in on sherlock Viewing Apple's stock notes.

http://www.hip-e.com/index.do

Good idea except it runs windows.

[tallyho]

Good idea except it runs windows.

Ouch that is ugly...it makes the mock up of a new cube earlier in this thread look almost good by comparison. The new iMac has to be an all in one though. That "cube" thing didn't show a load of wires trailing all over the desk--how was the screen connected. And as for the idea of attaching a pizzabox unit to the back of a cinema display, and buying yourself a vesa arm of some description...not going to appeal to novices is it? People on this board would love to do things ike that, but Mrs Average consumer wants to take it out of the box and switch it on.

[jacobj]

I ran across this in on sherlock Viewing Apple's stock notes.

http://www.hip-e.com/index.do

Good idea except it runs windows.

A home computer has to look the part. Let's be honest you wouldn't place a TV that was ugly as hell in your living room would you?

The people that design this stuff realise that the PC has to be a stylised home accessory, but they concentrate too much on trying to express what's in the box in the design instead of designing the box for itself: high-tech, streamlined and powerful.

My question is why? Apple's beauty comes from 2 main things:

1: The casing a practical: the G4 iMac took little space and allowed the user to control the position of the screen with little effort.

2: The are beautiful, independently of their content. This also appears to be the basis of design for Sony. When a G5 PowerMac/Alu display combo is switched off there is still the pleasure of looking at it for what it is, not for what it will do when you switch it on.

I really do wonder about the design philosophy of such companies. But then the problem also lays in the hands of the consumers. I, unfortunately, know a few people that would consider the hip-e to be a better design than the iMac G4 because it attempts to look cutting edge. The sad truth is that such pseudo-futuristic designs look dated because they draw on accepted design philosophies for such things, such as sloping lines. They also mix all these aspects of design philosophies with out any regard for whether they are well matched.

Anyway, enough of my moaning. The genius behind Jonathan Ive's designs is that he looks for simplicity. He takes one aspect of design and holds to it. I think he has improved over the years, although the G3 iMac was a brilliant design.

If we look at the G5 PowerMac, each face is simple. The curves are consistent at top and bottom. It is beautiful.

The 3rd gen iPod was a great improvement on the 1st and 2nd gens because it scrapped the sharp edges that conflicted with both the rounded back, the scroll wheel and surrounding buttons on the 2nd gen. The raised buttons on the 2nd gen made them the main feature and all else had to fit it - they didn't - not quite.
Now the 4th gen is an even greater improvement because the buttons are gone. I personally disliked them because their scale was wrong - I know they couldn't be any other way. I also like the grey wheel on the 4th gen because it brings it out as a feature and ensures that the curves of the iPod are the main feature - distracting the eye away from the rectangular screen.

Now back to the G4 iMac. It was good, but I thought that the hemispherical base conflicted slightly with the rectangular screen. He attempted to compensate by rounding the edges of the screen, but to me, it was a slight failure.

I am expecting the G5 iMac to be a thing of beauty and simplicity.

[Montserrat]

That hip-e is damn ugly (it also has a crap-wanna-be-an-iMac name). The iMac has to and surely will look better than that. A previous poster mentioned that Sony has a good design philosophy, but a look at their "iMac-killer" shows that they're not in a league anywhere near Apple. Apple design is more akin to Bang & Olufson or Nakamichi. I for one cannot wait to see what the new iMac looks like - though I doubt I'll be buying one soon.

[BenRoethig]

I ran across this in on sherlock Viewing Apple's stock notes.

http://www.hip-e.com/index.do

Good idea except it runs windows.

That hip-e is definately smoking something if they think it's going to sell.

[Cannibal]

The genius behind Jonathan Ive's designs is that he looks for simplicity. He takes one aspect of design and holds to it. I think he has improved over the years, although the G3 iMac was a brilliant design.

i'm (like ALL Apple users) a huge fan of Jonathan Ive. I can'r help but be a little nervous about this upcoming G5 iMac though.

Reason #1 for my nervousness: it's time to upgrade. i need a new mac, and the rumored specs on the iMac are perfect. i will order the high end iMac the day that it is possible to do so PROVIDED that i like (no... love) the look of the computer as well. Form AND function. i have to have both.
Reason #2 for my nervousness: i'm not a fan of the vertical slot loading superdrive. i was under the impression that vertical drives were not as capable as the more common horizontal counterpart (if anyone has any feedback on this that could put my mind at ease that would be great.)
Reason #3 for my nervousness: as a very vocal proponent of the Apple computer company and the Mac OS i get a little nervous whenever Cupertino breaks out something new. I have to be able to defend the product.

-Cannibal-
beige G3, 300mhz, OS 9.2.2 (i told you that i need to upgrade...) :rolleyes:

[Bad Beaver]

http://mackompass.de/images/stories/apple/imac_g5_aio.jpg

This is neat. Only that the screen would not be adjustable and basically sits too far down, and that the optical drive would possibly interfere with a vertical motherboard. Very very sleek though.

[mixgrafix]

But the concept of "apple-izing the PC industry" is a good concept. Instead of bringing to masses to apple, take apple to the masses. Could Apple build a "PC" that runs windows-only, and not with an emulator. Sounds like blasphemy, but hey, anything for marketshare.

Get Well Soon Steve.

[titaniumducky]

I hope that the implication that the eMac is going away is unfounded. That's a good comp for that market.

That said, I don't understand people's concerns about the LCD screen being too fragile. Can't you just buy a plastic protector, that can take the kid's pencil jabs and finger points?

But why? It's so much more expensive.

Also, an LCD computer is much easier to steal than a CRT computer (who's going to run away carrying 60-70 pounds with them?)

CRTs are still cheaper than LCDs, too. One day, the market is going to hit a point where CRTs aren't being produced and become MORE expensive. That point is still a few years of, though, so, until then, cheaper AIOs are going to have to be CRT-based.

[titaniumducky]

This is neat. Only that the screen would not be adjustable and basically sits too far down, and that the optical drive would possibly interfere with a vertical motherboard. Very very sleek though.

It looks cool, but what about heat problems? I don't know if that small section holding the computer parts could take the heat of G5. Then again, it's Apple we're talking about...

The screen could be adjustable with a stand, like the one for the eMac. It would attach to the bottom and give you tilt and swivel capability.

[Daveway]

I am willing to bet a good bit of knowledge that Apple would kost definitely use this: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1483&ncid=1292&e=5&u=/fool/20040819/bs_fool_fool/1092927480

Reason: The reason the original imac was popular besides that it was cheap was that it came in a variety of colors and this concept offers that and more. Cheap production is a plus for Apple.

AWESOME CONCEPT and sooo Apple!

[Bad Beaver]

Also, an LCD computer is much easier to steal than a CRT computer (who's going to run away carrying 60-70 pounds with them?)

Yeah right, dang, what *were* people stealing in the 90's... :rolleyes:

Imagine the thief coming up to your bed, shaking you awake:
"Excuse me mate, what were you thinking, having that heavy CRT in the study? Do you want me to hurt my back or what? Could you like get a TFT for next time? I'd really appreciate it"

[FFTT]

It looks cool, but what about heat problems? I don't know if that small section holding the computer parts could take the heat of G5. Then again, it's Apple we're talking about...


Supposedly the new iMac G5 will be using the cooler running 970Fx chips.


The screen could be adjustable with a stand, like the one for the eMac. It would attach to the bottom and give you tilt and swivel capability.

I'm sure there is some way to adjust the screen tilt probably hidden underneath the base.

[FFTT]

But why? It's so much more expensive.

Also, an LCD computer is much easier to steal than a CRT computer (who's going to run away carrying 60-70 pounds with them?)

CRTs are still cheaper than LCDs, too. One day, the market is going to hit a point where CRTs aren't being produced and become MORE expensive. That point is still a few years of, though, so, until then, cheaper AIOs are going to have to be CRT-based.

As much as I love the new TFT displays for looks and space saving design,
I still have not seen any flat screen with a picture as crisp as an upper level CRT.

And you can get a 23" for around $700 which is considerably more affordable than any flat screen that size.

[mixgrafix]

I do some consulting work with apple, and I got word that it will be a simple flat screen design, much like the one posted. Also, the graphics card can be changed with a hammer and a chisel. It will also have a built in coffee maker or other caffienated beverage dispenser (hot or cold) because of all the time you will be spending on it. The most unique feature is the case, and it will be made of 2gb of viscoelastic memory foam (by tempur pedic) and you will be able to sleep on it at night. Oh, and the dvd burner will also toast pop tarts in thirty seconds flat.

Only one of the prior statements is true.

[Doctor Q]

I do some consulting work with apple, and I got word that it will be a simple flat screen design, much like the one posted. Also, the graphics card can be changed with a hammer and a chisel. It will also have a built in coffee maker or other caffienated beverage dispenser (hot or cold) because of all the time you will be spending on it. The most unique feature is the case, and it will be made of 2gb of viscoelastic memory foam (by tempur pedic) and you will be able to sleep on it at night. Oh, and the dvd burner will also toast pop tarts in thirty seconds flat.Thanks, mixgrafix! I'm sure your inside info will be front page news any minute now. ;)

[gatorron]

Thanks mixgrafix, for the inside info.

I haven't had a toasted pop tart in years. Can't wait to indulge myself again. Does it toast both sides?

[gatorron]

Cannibal:

I'm right there with you. I hope to beat you in terms of getting in the que.

However, my own nervousnness revolves around making a choice between a high end iMac and a low end Power Mac. To do so budget wise, I would have to sacrifice a Mac monitor and just get the dual CPU. I spotted a nice 19-inch LCD at Best Buy for $599 US. That would still bring me close to $3000 US, with taxes and a couple of extras -- bluetooth and 512 MB seem to be basics to me.

Perhaps the high end iMAC will garner a 20-inch Apple monitor plus enough extras to seal to deal.

Won't know until Aug. 31, I guess.

As for the horizontal versus vertical issue. As a mechanical engineer, I can tell you that a rotating mass (the DVD plus drive) requires a different bearing, depending on orientation...ie, horizontal vs. vertical. This is due to gravity. But, it's simply a design issue, and no doubt Apple is aware of it. So rest easy.

[BakedBeans]

I do some consulting work with apple, and I got word that it will be a simple flat screen design, much like the one posted. Also, the graphics card can be changed with a hammer and a chisel. It will also have a built in coffee maker or other caffienated beverage dispenser (hot or cold) because of all the time you will be spending on it. The most unique feature is the case, and it will be made of 2gb of viscoelastic memory foam (by tempur pedic) and you will be able to sleep on it at night. Oh, and the dvd burner will also toast pop tarts in thirty seconds flat.

Only one of the prior statements is true.

its ok i toast my pop tarts on the back of my pwerbook...25secs per side...;)

[FFTT]

I do some consulting work with apple, and I got word that it will be a simple flat screen design, much like the one posted. Also, the graphics card can be changed with a hammer and a chisel. It will also have a built in coffee maker or other caffienated beverage dispenser (hot or cold) because of all the time you will be spending on it. The most unique feature is the case, and it will be made of 2gb of viscoelastic memory foam (by tempur pedic) and you will be able to sleep on it at night. Oh, and the dvd burner will also toast pop tarts in thirty seconds flat.

Only one of the prior statements is true.

Before we all rush out to buy the required hammer and chisel,
I guess we should know if we need metric or english to work on this puppy.

The coffee maker sounds like a great way to convert all that heat to something useful. Does this mean that the CPU will be water cooled? :-)

If they use viscoelastic memory foam on the keyboard as well, then we might be able to remember where we left off when we fall asleep at the office.

It's about time that they included Toast and Jam with your DVD burner.



:rolleyes:

[mattthemutt]

In my opinion, the hip-e thing is kinda overpriced and plus the specs are kinda crappy. SDRAM? Come on... (Please tell me if I'm misled) but seriously I had SDRAM back in1999... Plus its hideous.

[FFTT]

Talking about the Hip-e is just a waste of time.

I think Apple is much more likely to offer us something to compete with
the Sony V series AIO's

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=174193

http://www.sonystyle.ca/html/images/pcvv_product_top.jpg

Although I'm still hard line anti-P/C
this unit does offer some very impressive features.



Intel® Pentium® 4 processor 2.80 GHz


200GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive


512MB PC-2700 DDR RAM


DVD±RW/CD-RW Slim Combo Drive


i.LINK® (IEEE 1394) S400 digital interface


Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition





VAIO® Exclusive Software:



Giga Pocket™ - Personal video recorder


Sony SonicStage™ with MP3 encoder - MP3 File Managment



Sony SonicStage™ Mastering Studio - Digital Music Software



Sony DVgate™ Plus - Digital Video Software



Sony Network Smart Capture - Image



Sony PictureGear Studio™


Prices start around $1500

[gatorron]

I, too, am hard-line anti-PC. But I agree that Sony products are probably Apple's most competitive opponent...styling and retail pricewise.

I am currently using a Sony PCG-FX240K (P3) laptop to write this...as I await Aug. 31 buying decision. Need to see the new iMac then decide whether to get it, or drop the whole wad on a Power Mac.

The model shown is certainly more attractive than the WG700, an ugly beast that must have been puked out on a bad day.

The included Sony software, though, is crap for the most part. Unless it has undergone major re-writes, the modules stink. I don't use any of the included Sony stuff.

Then there's XP, reason enough not to buy this or any PC.

One bright note: Today I checked my credit card statement, and lo and behold, there's a $59.99 charge on it from McAfee. I call, and they said:

"We automatically charge your account one month before expiration of your subscription."

I replied: "Well, I'm getting a MAC in two weeks, so I don't need your software anymore."

They refunded it, and canceled the automatic renewal. I can pretty much use the savings to order, say, a Bluetooth module on the Power Mac, or a wireless keyboard...ha!

Goodbye PC world...the end is near

[vouder17]

i was reading past arhive rumors of the iMac G4 introduction, it was actually quite funny cos the rumors that were coming out were so far off of the actual iMac G4, For starters everyone was certain that the new iMac was going to feature a G3.
Only a day before it's release did one rumor site get it right because of a mistake by CanadaTimes.

Well i know that this doesn't say these rumors are not correct, but this does say that rumor sites do get it wrong.

Peace DjVoTeZ

[FFTT]

I Think it's a shame that an otherwise good quality system like the Sony V series could not run on OSX.

I does re-define the ALL IN ONE concept as a complete home media center.

I would love to purchase an Apple product with these kind of features.
Especially if they were available on the larger cinema display models.

IF Apple would release a product combining their best features, adding
the TFT display, integrated HDTV, and much improved graphics support, the average consumer would have little trouble deciding which way to go.

Both manufacturers may offer high quality hardware, but the operating system is really what keeps us loyal to Apple.

I hope that Apple will continue to offer the highest quality overall system available.

[csubear]

Talking about the Hip-e is just a waste of time.

I think Apple is much more likely to offer us something to compete with
the Sony V series AIO's

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=174193

http://www.sonystyle.ca/html/images/pcvv_product_top.jpg

Although I'm still hard line anti-P/C
this unit does offer some very impressive features.



Intel® Pentium® 4 processor 2.80 GHz


200GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive


512MB PC-2700 DDR RAM


DVD±RW/CD-RW Slim Combo Drive


i.LINK® (IEEE 1394) S400 digital interface


Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition





VAIO® Exclusive Software:



Giga Pocket™ - Personal video recorder


Sony SonicStage™ with MP3 encoder - MP3 File Managment



Sony SonicStage™ Mastering Studio - Digital Music Software



Sony DVgate™ Plus - Digital Video Software



Sony Network Smart Capture - Image



Sony PictureGear Studio™


Prices start around $1500

I think its ugly :)

[titaniumducky]

I, too, am hard-line anti-PC. But I agree that Sony products are probably Apple's most competitive opponent...styling and retail pricewise.

I am currently using a Sony PCG-FX240K (P3) laptop to write this...as I await Aug. 31 buying decision. Need to see the new iMac then decide whether to get it, or drop the whole wad on a Power Mac.

The model shown is certainly more attractive than the WG700, an ugly beast that must have been puked out on a bad day.

The included Sony software, though, is crap for the most part. Unless it has undergone major re-writes, the modules stink. I don't use any of the included Sony stuff.

Then there's XP, reason enough not to buy this or any PC.

One bright note: Today I checked my credit card statement, and lo and behold, there's a $59.99 charge on it from McAfee. I call, and they said:

"We automatically charge your account one month before expiration of your subscription."

I replied: "Well, I'm getting a MAC in two weeks, so I don't need your software anymore."

They refunded it, and canceled the automatic renewal. I can pretty much use the savings to order, say, a Bluetooth module on the Power Mac, or a wireless keyboard...ha!

Goodbye PC world...the end is near

Sony's not a major player in the desktop market, though. They have a reasonable share in the laptop market, but Apple's biggest competitor is probably Dell (I hope the mods don't edit out the D-Word ;)).

[FFTT]

I think its ugly :)

Agreed!

But we're talking about overall design, features and function.

Let's all hope that the new iMac G5's beauty will be more than skin deep.

[zelmo]

I am willing to bet a good bit of knowledge that Apple would kost definitely use this: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1483&ncid=1292&e=5&u=/fool/20040819/bs_fool_fool/1092927480

Reason: The reason the original imac was popular besides that it was cheap was that it came in a variety of colors and this concept offers that and more. Cheap production is a plus for Apple.

AWESOME CONCEPT and sooo Apple!

It would indeed be cool if Apple applied this technology on the new iMac G5 to allow their logo to change colors based on user-defined parameters. [Pulsing blue for incoming email. Solid green when disc is done burning. Blinking orange when it's okay to unplug your iPod..oh the possibilities].
Just the kind of system resource-draining effect that does nothing really useful, while making us all say, "Ooh...shiny." :D

[BB1985]

I just Can't Wait, a new form, i don't care about the spec. :)

[FFTT]

It would indeed be cool if Apple applied this technology on the new iMac G5 to allow their logo to change colors based on user-defined parameters. [Pulsing blue for incoming email. Solid green when disc is done burning. Blinking orange when it's okay to unplug your iPod..oh the possibilities].
Just the kind of system resource-draining effect that does nothing really useful, while making us all say, "Ooh...shiny." :D

Although this sounds like something fun,
I would much rather see Apple configure all of their systems with the best possible basics, especially in processor speeds, memory, graphics support, HDTV tuners & A/V I/O's, superdrives and longer warranties before they add far less important bells an whistles of this nature.

The warranty issue is even more important now that a new overseas contractor is building these machines. The All In One concept is great until something breaks.

[XboxEvolved]

I would just like to remind people that the newest Dual 1.8 G5 only comes with 256mb ram as a standard so the ram thing really isnt that bad. in comparison to a dual G5 which is somehow running off of 128mb per cpu.

I personally don't know what to do at this point. As a new Mac user who owns a used 467 mhz PowerMac G4 anything is an upgrade to me. The best value to me though seems to be an eMac.

[zelmo]

Although this sounds like something fun,
I would much rather see Apple configure all of their systems with the best possible basics, especially in processor speeds, memory, graphics support, HDTV tuners & A/V I/O's, superdrives and longer warranties before they add far less important bells an whistles of this nature.


I agree. Alas, our typical consumer, whose opinion is rarely [if ever] voiced on this forum, will not be too concerned with the graphics card or the number of RAM slots. The first thing they will notice is the form factor. If it catches their eye, they may buy Apple. Anything to attract attention [potential purchasers] is what Apple is likely to do. After all, those of us who are in here whining about the rumored spec's are already hooked on Apple.
Hey, new converts...fresh voices complaining on the forum! :)

[weezer160]

I praise the fact that Apple is making a great effort in bringing 64-bit technology to the average Joe for less than 2,000 dollars. I mean, with the help of Apple, the price (as well as the prestige) of 64-bit processors will drop, and now your everday secretary, student - even your mom - will be interested in owning a G5 iMac, whether it's for looks or you sweet talked them into it. :)

Apple is an industry leader in many venues of technology. From implementation of Firewire, USB, etc., to the discontinution of the Poopy (Floppy) Drive, we're always setting newer, higher standards. However, I am shocked that Apple has decided to stick with old graphics cards and low amounts of RAM. The strong point of owning a G5 is the newer architecture, which is dependent on your RAM and AGP slot. I mean, if you're not going to incorporate newer technology along side a new chip and design, what's the point in upgrading at all? :confused:

[beatle888]

However, I am shocked that Apple has decided to stick with old graphics cards and low amounts of RAM. The strong point of owning a G5 is the newer architecture, which is dependent on your RAM and AGP slot. I mean, if you're not going to incorporate newer technology along side a new chip and design, what's the point in upgrading at all? :confused:


how do you know what graphics card their going to use? or are you taking previous GUESSES as fact? i could of missed something but as far as i know there arent any for sure specs out there as far as the new g5 imac is concerned.

i reread your post...and now assume that you must be talking about the PowerMacs....not the iMac.

[mxpiazza]

i agree with FFTT, we're probably going to see something to compete with the new Sony all-in-ones. apple would be too smart to include a built in TV function, though... it defeats the purpose of the beginner-esque iMac... not to mention an increase in price point.

hopefully we'll see an all-in-one design that is thin and light enough to hang on a wall mount... its apple though, so the sex appeal will be undeniable.

[Gee4orce]

Of course, I remember the negative reaction to the iPod Mini before it was released, and look how that has sold. I was told recently by a major UK electrical retailer that they won't have them on sale until December !

Maybe the new iMac will woo those iPod Mini buyers...

[zelmo]

In only 8 days, we will [hopefully] get an eyeful of the new G5 iMac. Maybe then we can all stop this endless conjecture about the specifications...and start complaining about the real spec's! :D :D

[Bad Beaver]

In only 8 days, we will [hopefully] get an eyeful of the new G5 iMac. Maybe then we can all stop this endless conjecture about the specifications...and start complaining about the real spec's! :D :D

Yeah, rock'n'roll, Phil will deliver! :D :cool:

[ceo2b]

I got so caught up in the future of the Powerbooks that I overlooked a good replacement and something that can fit my needs perfectly in trying to convert to a desktop-free environment.

I bet this week will be very slow! Up the VRAM, add DVI and FW800, and I'm sold.

It would be great if the Cube returned, I loved the photo of the colored cubes paired with the new Al-Displays. The consensus is that the new machines will remain in a AIO format; but it does not hurt to hope! A G5-Cube...how cool!

[aswitcher]

In only 8 days, we will [hopefully] get an eyeful of the new G5 iMac. Maybe then we can all stop this endless conjecture about the specifications...and start complaining about the real spec's! :D :D

I am hoping for a leak or really accurate mock up in the next week. TS had some good stuff and others as well. I think its such a big thing that more will come out before Paris.

Hopefully there will be some other cool stuff as well.

[Cannibal]

Cannibal:

I'm right there with you. I hope to beat you in terms of getting in the que.

However, my own nervousnness revolves around making a choice between a high end iMac and a low end Power Mac.

Won't know until Aug. 31, I guess.

As for the horizontal versus vertical issue... So rest easy.

i was also flirting with the Tower versus the iMac dilema. but i know me... and i know that i'll want a monitor that is outrageous and i'll pay too much for it. i know me. i'm pretty excited about the specs that have been leaked. the memory (as always) needs a jump, but... everything else is perfect. the tower will be more upgradeable in the long run. but the iMac will be a centerpiece for 78% of the conversations that go on in the room with it. Form AND Function.


in terms of the vertical drive... i am still a bit nervous about it, but i trust that Cupertino has something marvelous in store for me. I have faith...
7 days and counting...

-Cannibal-
-beige G3 300MHz (minitower) :rolleyes:

[Converted2Truth]

...the tower will be more upgradeable in the long run. but the iMac will be a centerpiece for 78% of the conversations that go on in the room with it. Form AND Function.
It's fine with me if people want a mac to show off in their livingroom or whatever, dispite is crappy hardware/poor preformance/non-upgradability... but for the life of Brian, give those that aren't vain and stupid a halfway cutting edge computer...

I can't believe the rumored imac has NO cutting edge specs. I'll have to see it to believe it. I guess if they do, there will always be the guppies willing to fork out 2k for what the emac should be at this point.

[thatwendigo]

It's fine with me if people want a mac to show off in their livingroom or whatever, dispite is crappy hardware/poor preformance/non-upgradability... but for the life of Brian, give those that aren't vain and stupid a halfway cutting edge computer...

Cut the trolls, please.

Apple sells integrated systems, not heaps of components that are supposed to impress people by shaving a half second off of a render or giving an extra two frames to some game. They're intended for a market that likes what their products have come to emblemize - style, ease of use, integration, and simplicity. The iMac and iPod the flagship products as far as most of the populace are concerned, because they stand out from the dull roar of undiferentiated PC pap.

To kill that is to remove a large portion of what sells Apple hardware.

I can't believe the rumored imac has NO cutting edge specs. I'll have to see it to believe it. I guess if they do, there will always be the guppies willing to fork out 2k for what the emac should be at this point.

The PowerPC platform is more expensive for comparable technology. Don't believe me? Go look up PegasOS' laughable G4 motherboards and see just how pricey they are, despite being commodity wherever possible.

[The Cheat]

I praise the fact that Apple is making a great effort in bringing 64-bit technology to the average Joe for less than 2,000 dollars. I mean, with the help of Apple, the price (as well as the prestige) of 64-bit processors will drop, and now your everday secretary, student - even your mom - will be interested in owning a G5 iMac, whether it's for looks or you sweet talked them into it. :)

Ignoring the fact that the average Joe has no need for a 64-bit system, said Joe can already get a 64-bit system for under $2000 (under $1000, actually) - it's called the Athlon64. Sorry to say it but AMD is the company bringing 64-bit CPU's to the masses, not Apple.

[appleface]

As a new Mac user who owns a used 467 mhz PowerMac G4 anything is an upgrade to me. The best value to me though seems to be an eMac.

does anyone think the imac will be of better value than the emac? (i guess the value of a lcd vs. crt is completely subjective)

[Cannibal]

It's fine with me if people want a mac to show off in their livingroom or whatever, dispite is crappy hardware/poor preformance/non-upgradability... but for the life of Brian, give those that aren't vain and stupid a halfway cutting edge computer...

I can't believe the rumored imac has NO cutting edge specs. I'll have to see it to believe it. I guess if they do, there will always be the guppies willing to fork out 2k for what the emac should be at this point.
:mad:
choosing an iMac has nothing to do with vanity or stupidity. reading this post it's very hard for me to believe that you are a Mac person. i would NEVER describe the current model of iMacs (nor the rumored specs on the new iMac) as crappy. Apple makes quality computers that add to the functionality of your life. they integrate with you and your environment in a way that no other electronic product that i can think of does... is the iMac as upgradable as the tower? no. does that mean it's crappy? certainly not. Apple offers both products because they know that the two different designs will meet the needs of different end users.

grrrrrrrrrrrr....
-Cannibal-
:mad:

[afields]

Good to see mac genius thatwendigo back. :D

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

I think a lot of people miss the point in the AIO vs. headless deal. They don't have to cannibalize one another. They can complement one another. If Apple releases an iMac, it's going to appeal to the iMac market for people that want an all-in-one enclosure desktop that suits a very different demographic than I feel a more utilitarian budgeted Cube or Mac LC or whatever they elect to call it would. It can share componentry and architecture/specs, vary in some ways if necessary to appeal to the different tastes of both clientele (maybe an upgradable AGP slot instead of soldered in, although honestly I can live with built-in, as this *WOULD NOT* be anymore a gaming machine than an iMac, the G5 desktop is more like an Alienware PC which is geared for gaming)... but can be suitable to both sides and appeal to both factions. I think there's honestly an array of people that don't want to be tethered to a monitor, other's though want the AIO. Give us both... and share the R&D costs of the architecture across both and it can work extremely well and Apple won't lose any profits and they'll get more people into Macs more quickly and without cutting corners. Even if there's no announcement via Paris... I am still going to hold out because the iMac/eMac isn't what suits me. It never will.

As for the naysayers... it worked in the past... i.e. the old Mac LC lineup that lasted 3 generations and was exactly what most reasonably "realistic" people are really clamoring for. I think the time is ripe again for such a computer from Apple. It's not an upgradable as sin PC, but it's got the features a lot of people want without being tethered to a monitor without a choice to pick what size they really want. Granted I don't see a LC hooked up to a 30" LCD (on-board video likely wouldn't support it) but... a 23" Apple Cinema could work nicely. Or for those that can't shell out $1,000+ on an LCD, a 17-19" normal screen would work. Either via Apple or someone else... the increased volume of sales shipments would help Apple gain marketshare, even if they don't necessarily increase their profitability on the sale of monitor/LCD glued together as one. They lose sales on people that don't want that though, and that wait for either something they do want, or 'til they can afford something that quite honestly might be more than they need... but at least it fulfills their requirements/tastes.

When I speak of Utilitarian Budgeted Cube/LC, I don't mean miniscule compact over-engineered to the point of expensive fetish item like the previous incarnation. I don't care if it's a pizza box, a cube, or some other shape... if it's a headless single processor desktop, it's all I need. Otherwise, I'll wait awhile and get a G5 desktop, but I can guarantee it'll be quite a bit as other priorities come first. If that's true of me, I'm sure there's countless others' in the same boat. An iMac or eMac doesn't appeal to me. I want to choose my monitor, and survive with what monitor I have now (17" CRT) 'til I can get what I desire later on. Maybe a 20" LCD a year down the road when I can better afford it, if not... something 17-20" from Apple or otherwise that's within my reach. I'm not after 60 fps at Doom III... I want something decent enough that'll be supported by Core Image/Video eventually in Tiger, that's got a little bit of processing muscle, and that can serve me as long as this upgraded 9600 I soldier on with.

The iMac/eMac isn't going to cut it, and a G5 can take me a year to logically afford when other things come up that cut into that hefty sticker. We need something in between, that suits the non-AIO crowd, without necessarily stealing sales from the AIO's. Complementary, not defeatest. That's the key. It's not an iMac if it's not AIO, it's not an eMac if it's not AIO. It's something different. What that is named... I don't care... but I do want one, and if Apple builds it they'll have my cash reasonably soon and that of many other's apparently (except those unrealistic types that'd complain if they didn't get a GeForce Ultra Mega Super Titanium with Chrome fender skirts for peanuts and the ability to upgrade everything on it). That's the point. :D

[FFTT]

Crossing fingers and toes and hopes we knows

IN 6 MORE DAYS! :-)

[webmatthijs]

man i can't wait to get my hands on one!

[zelmo]

I think a lot of people miss the point in the AIO vs. headless deal. They don't have to cannibalize one another. They can complement one another. If Apple releases an iMac, it's going to appeal to the iMac market for people that want an all-in-one enclosure desktop that suits a very different demographic than I feel a more utilitarian budgeted Cube or Mac LC or whatever they elect to call it would. It can share componentry and architecture/specs, vary in some ways if necessary to appeal to the different tastes of both clientele (maybe an upgradable AGP slot instead of soldered in, although honestly I can live with built-in, as this *WOULD NOT* be anymore a gaming machine than an iMac, the G5 desktop is more like an Alienware PC which is geared for gaming)... but can be suitable to both sides and appeal to both factions. I think there's honestly an array of people that don't want to be tethered to a monitor, other's though want the AIO. Give us both... and share the R&D costs of the architecture across both and it can work extremely well and Apple won't lose any profits and they'll get more people into Macs more quickly and without cutting corners. Even if there's no announcement via Paris... I am still going to hold out because the iMac/eMac isn't what suits me. It never will.

As for the naysayers... it worked in the past... i.e. the old Mac LC lineup that lasted 3 generations and was exactly what most reasonably "realistic" people are really clamoring for. I think the time is ripe again for such a computer from Apple. It's not an upgradable as sin PC, but it's got the features a lot of people want without being tethered to a monitor without a choice to pick what size they really want. Granted I don't see a LC hooked up to a 30" LCD (on-board video likely wouldn't support it) but... a 23" Apple Cinema could work nicely. Or for those that can't shell out $1,000+ on an LCD, a 17-19" normal screen would work. Either via Apple or someone else... the increased volume of sales shipments would help Apple gain marketshare, even if they don't necessarily increase their profitability on the sale of monitor/LCD glued together as one. They lose sales on people that don't want that though, and that wait for either something they do want, or 'til they can afford something that quite honestly might be more than they need... but at least it fulfills their requirements/tastes.

When I speak of Utilitarian Budgeted Cube/LC, I don't mean miniscule compact over-engineered to the point of expensive fetish item like the previous incarnation. I don't care if it's a pizza box, a cube, or some other shape... if it's a headless single processor desktop, it's all I need. Otherwise, I'll wait awhile and get a G5 desktop, but I can guarantee it'll be quite a bit as other priorities come first. If that's true of me, I'm sure there's countless others' in the same boat. An iMac or eMac doesn't appeal to me. I want to choose my monitor, and survive with what monitor I have now (17" CRT) 'til I can get what I desire later on. Maybe a 20" LCD a year down the road when I can better afford it, if not... something 17-20" from Apple or otherwise that's within my reach. I'm not after 60 fps at Doom III... I want something decent enough that'll be supported by Core Image/Video eventually in Tiger, that's got a little bit of processing muscle, and that can serve me as long as this upgraded 9600 I soldier on with.

The iMac/eMac isn't going to cut it, and a G5 can take me a year to logically afford when other things come up that cut into that hefty sticker. We need something in between, that suits the non-AIO crowd, without necessarily stealing sales from the AIO's. Complementary, not defeatest. That's the key. It's not an iMac if it's not AIO, it's not an eMac if it's not AIO. It's something different. What that is named... I don't care... but I do want one, and if Apple builds it they'll have my cash reasonably soon and that of many other's apparently (except those unrealistic types that'd complain if they didn't get a GeForce Ultra Mega Super Titanium with Chrome fender skirts for peanuts and the ability to upgrade everything on it). That's the point. :D

Well said. There is definitely a market that Apple misses cashing in on by limiting their offering of a headless Mac to the dual G5 PowerMac line. A single processor, reasonably upgradeable system, sans monitor, for around $1,000...this would definitely sell.

[afields]

I am hoping for a leak or really accurate mock up in the next week. TS had some good stuff and others as well. I think its such a big thing that more will come out before Paris.

Hopefully there will be some other cool stuff as well.

Same here. Something as big as this can't be kept quiet for too long, hopefully.

[Detlev_73]

I would just like to remind people that the newest Dual 1.8 G5 only comes with 256mb ram as a standard so the ram thing really isnt that bad. in comparison to a dual G5 which is somehow running off of 128mb per cpu.

I personally don't know what to do at this point. As a new Mac user who owns a used 467 mhz PowerMac G4 anything is an upgrade to me. The best value to me though seems to be an eMac.

I've looked at the eMac recently, and although it does offer a good mix of great one-size, good value, good processing power package, it does still have a CRT. I don't know about the screen resolution system preference on the eMac, but I had to guess I would say that you CAN change the horizontal scanning frequency, which I would suggest to up to the highest possible level. I am now at a university computer with a CRT monitor, and I'm almost positive it's set at 60 MHz, yikes!!! I'm not going to be able to look at it for too much longer.

The reason I point this out, is that 17" LCD's are so inexpensive nowawadays, compared to 4 years ago, that it would be foolish to get a computer WITHOUT an LCD screen. I have been using laptops for the past three years as a desktop replacement, and have loved them for the LCD screen. I'm on the verge of plopping down a few thousand on a G5 system and an Alu display.

Apple has GREAT values on G4 systems if you look under the SAVE category, now located on the right-hand column in the Applestore.com. You can get your hands on a great G4, all you have to get is a display. Can I wait for G5? Yes. But I don't want to; I've been on my 800 MHz G3-based iBook for almost two full years, and it feels slower than molassass on a cold day.

[ebally]

I stumbled across this when browsing the net. (Shape of things to come?) What do you guys think?

[Converted2Truth]

this is cute, but not worth comment... there is no way that's what it'll look like. Plenty of 4yr olds would like to have one lol...

[wrxsti86]

new ?mac I think

[lind0834]

Just as a side note, I threw together a list of how the iBooks and iMacs went from color to White, more form than function. Maybe that will help throw some light on the subject.

Colored iMac Release: May '98
Colored iBook Release: July '99

Snow iMac Release: July, '00 (26 months later)
White iBook Release: May '01 (22 months later)

G4 iMac Release: January '02 (17 months later)

G5 iMac Release: September '04 (33 months later)

So the main difference that I see.. as long as I counted correctly.
Is that the in the G3 iMac form it did change slightly over its 43 months of sales, while the G4 just had screen increases. The G4 iMac has only had it's current form factor for 33 months now.

I would like to see them keep the 'Sunflower' factor for the G5 iMac just like the kept the White iBook when the upgraded that to G4. I think the design is really still quite ahead of the curve, and would not be surprised to see a very similar display/hemisphere for the next iMac. Of course they might follow the 4G iPod coloring as an updated scheme.

[MonsterZero]

Honestly I cant imagine this will be cooler then my current imac...I love it.

MAYBE....

If its basically a flat panel screen with the guts in the back I could be excited...

like this ? ( my five minute sketch )

http://img66.exs.cx/img66/7805/imac1.jpg

[beaty]

I can't see how they could possibly have no optical drive. MAYBE they mean no optical burner? but even the low-end eMac includes a combo drive

Actually, for educational computer labs this makes perfect sense...

I am a Apple certified technical co-ordinator for a teacher training school at an English University and we have typical school set-ups for our Macs...

Locking down - or not having - an optical is a perfect solution for security as we like to assume control of what is deployed on the workstations. This is easily done with a combination of network boot and Apple's fantastic Remote Desktop (which has built in software network distribution).

Having accountability of exactly what software is on a machine, and making sure that it cannot be added to by individuals, is at the heart of a safe education policy for IT management in schools.

Apple have done exactly the right thing by not having an optical in the 'slave' iMacs - let the teacher/trainer have the optical in their teaching machine.

[tibor]

Actually, for educational computer labs this makes perfect sense...

I am a Apple certified technical co-ordinator for a teacher training school at an English University and we have typical school set-ups for our Macs...

Locking down - or not having - an optical is a perfect solution for security as we like to assume control of what is deployed on the workstations. This is easily done with a combination of network boot and Apple's fantastic Remote Desktop (which has built in software network distribution).

Having accountability of exactly what software is on a machine, and making sure that it cannot be added to by individuals, is at the heart of a safe education policy for IT management in schools.

Apple have done exactly the right thing by not having an optical in the 'slave' iMacs - let the teacher/trainer have the optical in their teaching machine.

I know what you're saying, but don't you think that the internet and broadband connectivity are rapidly making the 'net the software distribution method of choice, especially for kids who have grown up their whole live with the net?

CDs aren't going away soon, but they are slowly dying.

If you really want to lock down a computer, you're talking no CD drive and no internet connection, which seems to really cripple a computer.

Just my $.02,
-d

[Bad Beaver]

Well, whatever the new iMac will be like, it will have to compete with this...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/26/ibm_compact_desktop/

:cool:

Comes out on the 30th... suspicious...

[zelmo]

Well, whatever the new iMac will be like, it will have to compete with this...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/26/ibm_compact_desktop/

:cool:

Comes out on the 30th... suspicious...

Man, that is one fugly box! God help us all if Apple chooses to "compete" on this level. :rolleyes:

[rareflares]

http://homepage.mac.com/ihepworth/.Pictures/DCP_1763.jpg



found this at AppleInsider Forums. could be a hoax, could be real. i gues we'll find out in a couple of days anyhow.

[NusuniAdmin]

found this at AppleInsider Forums. could be a hoax, could be real. i gues we'll find out in a couple of days anyhow.

thats just one of the AL cinema displays

[zelmo]

thats just one of the AL cinema displays

I don't recall the new CD's being quite this thick. Am I incorrect, or are you saying they Photoshop'd one to make it look thicker and freak everyone out?

[NusuniAdmin]

I don't recall the new CD's being quite this thick. Am I incorrect, or are you saying they Photoshop'd one to make it look thicker and freak everyone out?

the new displays actually are quite thick, take a look.

http://www.apple.com/displays/design.html

[salmon]

I think a lot of people miss the point in the AIO vs. headless deal. They don't have to cannibalize one another. They can complement one another.

Well said. Many people like to use the Mercedes analogy. I don't know much about Mercedes (my next car is going to be a Smart Car (http://www.smart.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/mpc-ca-content-Site/en_CA/-/-/SVCPresentationPipeline-Start?Page=issite://smart-Site/smart.com/RootFolder/smart/home.page), or a Toyota Echo Hatchback :D), but doesn't even Mercedes have a low end version that the car snobs can look down on and say, "Well, it's only a <insert low-end model name here> Mercedes", but that someone who actually owns one feels proud because they own a Mercedes?

I think there's honestly an array of people that don't want to be tethered to a monitor, other's though want the AIO.

And it's not just the form factor argument. I am a person who doesn't mind spending extra money to get something of quality - and I definitely consider Apple products in this category - but I LOATH wasting money, or donating it to corporations. It's just too hard to come by.

I need to get a new computer in the near future. I also need a new monitor, mine being 8 years old (still going to use it as a TV for my MythTV box I'm going to build, though). I really want an LCD, but for a half decent one (17" widescreen), we're talking around $1000cdn. I have a hard enough time paying that for something I can use into the ground, let alone something that will be forced into obsolescence in 4 years or so.

And before I hear it, a Power Mac is overkill, and a cost I couldn't begin to justify.

... the increased volume of sales shipments would help Apple gain marketshare, even if they don't necessarily increase their profitability on the sale of monitor/LCD glued together as one. They lose sales on people that don't want that though, and that wait for either something they do want, or 'til they can afford something that quite honestly might be more than they need... but at least it fulfills their requirements/tastes.

Exactly right again. I view it more of a choice between the carrot and the stick approach - the stick is what they use now: "If you want an iMac, we're going to force an LCD down your throat." IMO, a much better approach would be to enourage people to buy both components from them, because it's just so cool that way. An iMac base that is designed to look awesome if plugged into an Apple monitor, and like it's missing something if it's not.

I want to choose my monitor, and survive with what monitor I have now (17" CRT) 'til I can get what I desire later on. Maybe a 20" LCD a year down the road when I can better afford it, if not... something 17-20" from Apple or otherwise that's within my reach.

I swear, you've been reading my mind! ;)

We need something in between, that suits the non-AIO crowd, without necessarily stealing sales from the AIO's. Complementary, not defeatest. That's the key.

In my case, if they don't offer something like this, I might not be able to buy an Apple, even though I want to very badly. This hardly seems like a good policy to follow, not offering something that customers desperately want to buy.

An eMac is below what I want, the iMac (in it's present FF, anyways) has the problems outlined above, and I didn't win the lottery lately, so no Power Mac G5s for me.

One other point is that people in the US have value problems with the Apple lineup - it's worse for those of us outside the US, when you factor in exchange rates and add on the Apple idiot tax (you know, the extra premium they add the prices above and beyond the exchange rate difference).

However, I am optimistic that I will see something in the near future that I want to/can buy from Apple. They are an extremely smart company, have great eladership, and I think they learned from the low sunflower iMac sales. :)

[webmatthijs]

wait.. mounted on the back.. isn't that the same as the original imacs?
and weren't those annoying because they took up a lot of desk space....?
and I should think that even schools with their limited needs would want an optical drive... I mean will the mac OSX install discs be on USB drives?

some parts of this seem very odd...

good point, not a smart move. hope the low end specs are wrong.

[webmatthijs]

the new displays actually are quite thick, take a look.

http://www.apple.com/displays/design.html

nice one thats exactly what i thought when i first saw that picture

[kangaroo]

August 13, 2004 - Think Secret Exclusive The soon-to-be-announced, re-designed iMac will be...housed in an all-in-one body with the motherboard and components attached to the back of the display. Sources said the new model will be similar in design and style to Sony's VAIO W700G, but with sleeker lines and contours.


Oct '03 - Sony (W & V series vaios) & Gateway (Profile/Media Center) all-in-ones, for example, sport the computer mounted directly behind the LCD. Seems like a logical design move to get the box (dome) off the desk and hide it behind a floating display. In fact, all they need to due is take a powerbook, sans display/keyboard and slap it on the back of a 20" display and they're practically there. Hmm, how much should I charge Apple for that one? :cool:

:p :p :p ;)

[jacobj]

Just to put my 2 pence in: I am not necessarily anti AIO, but I do wish that Apple had a lowe end Powermac as monitor.

On the iMac front: an AOI is likely to be the design as it always has been, but Apple need to offer a lot more than a non-upgradeable PowerMac in a flashy case to compete with Sony.

The sony is as all in one digital entertainment system (with analogue outputs). Apple's software is infinitely superior, but most consumers don't understand that. When the Sony details say that you can watch TV, burn DVDs, organise your music etc.. the average cosumer will believe it.. it is true after all. What they don't understand is that the Sony's software is a nightmare to use.

[zelmo]

the new displays actually are quite thick, take a look.

http://www.apple.com/displays/design.html

You are correct. I didn't even notice the thickness when I was drooling over them at the Apple Store.

[NusuniAdmin]

You are correct. I didn't even notice the thickness when I was drooling over them at the Apple Store.

same here, right before we left i looked at how thick they are and wow...i wus pretty surpised

[iwantanewmac]

Photo's were taken during transport in an elevator at the paris expo.

[aswitcher]

Photo's were taken during transport in an elevator at the paris expo.

I thought they were meant to have been taken at the airport...

Mmm...

Anyone got the original digitals?

[Chomolungma]

Photo's were taken during transport in an elevator at the paris expo.

What's special about the new monitor unpacking?

-chomo

[NusuniAdmin]

top one looks photoshopped
bottom one looks like the new monitor.

[TorbX]

Yeah... I'm not gonna go with an iMac with a non-movable screen.

[TorbX]

Might it be...? :eek:

http://homepage.mac.com/torbx/filechute/imac.jpg

Naaaaaaw, its just my jolly old Packard Bell LCD! :D

[takao]

Well said. Many people like to use the Mercedes analogy. I don't know much about Mercedes (my next car is going to be a Smart Car (http://www.smart.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/mpc-ca-content-Site/en_CA/-/-/SVCPresentationPipeline-Start?Page=issite://smart-Site/smart.com/RootFolder/smart/home.page), or a Toyota Echo Hatchback :D), but doesn't even Mercedes have a low end version that the car snobs can look down on and say, "Well, it's only a <insert low-end model name here> Mercedes", but that someone who actually owns one feels proud because they own a Mercedes?

(snip)



couldn't agree more on your comments

food for your analogy: 50 years ago mercedes only built luxus class cars ..... there weren't any C-series or even E-series... now: they are building the A-series ..are one of the biggest _truck_ manufacturer in europe... they are even produce business (mini)vans ... and since 25 years offroad cars ...and of course smart is actually a mercedes daughter company .... ;)

audi, bmw all three started with sportscars and luxus vehicles and now all of them are introducing smaller and smaller cars...

[blabber]

Hi there,

I can confirm that there will be a new G5 iMac lineup announced in Paris next week (saw one today). Expect major changes. Good times ahead!


Blabber

:D

[jhu]

couldn't agree more on your comments

food for your analogy: 50 years ago mercedes only built luxus class cars ..... there weren't any C-series or even E-series... now: they are building the A-series ..are one of the biggest _truck_ manufacturer in europe... they are even produce business (mini)vans ... and since 25 years offroad cars ...and of course smart is actually a mercedes daughter company .... ;)

audi, bmw all three started with sportscars and luxus vehicles and now all of them are introducing smaller and smaller cars...

low-end mercedes? it's called "chrysler"

[uv23]

Hi there,

I can confirm that there will be a new G5 iMac lineup announced in Paris next week (saw one today). Expect major changes. Good times ahead!


Blabber

:D
Your post is useless without details/pics.

[blabber]

Your post is useless without details/pics.

I'm afriad thats the best I can do - too close to the source. Just wait for next week.

Blabber ;)

[crap freakboy]

rofl
what source? need pics of source to verify.

[zelmo]

I'm afriad thats the best I can do - too close to the source. Just wait for next week.

Blabber ;)

Ha-ha. I'm not close to any "source", and can confidently make the same bold and meaningless statement. Where is the evidence? :rolleyes:

[kangaroo]

If these photos are true (and I don't think they are) then Apple should jettison Ives and hire the person who created the following for all their future case design work:

Nice!


http://mackompass.de/images/stories/apple/imac_g5_aio.jpg

[myapplseedshurt]

If these photos are true (and I don't think they are) then Apple should jettison Ives and hire the person who created the following for all their future case design work:

Nice!

yeah, that is nice, but there's no room for a built in drive. didn't someone say there wasn't going to be a drive?

[kangaroo]

yeah, that is nice, but there's no room for a built in drive. didn't someone say there wasn't going to be a drive?

There is a drive--it's under the display and the bulge on lower back accomodates the required drive depth as well as acting as a stand. Very clever.

[Corrupted]

If these photos are true (and I don't think they are) then Apple should jettison Ives and hire the person who created the following for all their future case design work:

Nice!

I actually kinda like that design ;)

[Cannibal]

If these photos are true (and I don't think they are) then Apple should jettison Ives and...

are you totally deranged? :eek: ives is a BRILLIANT man who is well respected by the tech community and the design community. he has won numerous awards for his simple, yet elegant work. that's the trick with Jonathon... it always looks natural to us when we see it. sure... no computer has ever looked like _____ (fill in Ives masterpiece here) but looking at it you can't help but wonder why didn't someone think of this before?

simple and elegant.

not just putzing around with photoshop mock-ups that don't have to contend with real world issues like heat, internal configuration, and those other pesky industrial design quanries...

-Cannibal-

[FFTT]

low-end mercedes? it's called "chrysler"

Way off topic, but I agree that the Mercedes C class series is now
sadly not much more than an overpriced Dodge with a trendy Mercedes
logo.
The E class is also having many reliability problems that you would never expect in anything so expensive.

It seems that the most trouble free cars are now the rice burners, as long
as you're careful to purchase one that was actually built IN JAPAN.

[FFTT]

FROM APPLEINSIDER 8/24


Sources confirm new Apple products next week




By Kasper Jade

Published: 05:00 PM EST

Apple Computer is quietly preparing to launch new products next week as it prepares for a major presence at the Apple Expo Paris.

AppleInsider has confirmed through multiple reliable sources that Apple is preparing to unveil new products early next week. The introductions are expected to begin appearing on the company's website as early as Monday evening.

While sources did not provide specifics of the announcements, it's widely expected that Apple will finally introduce its all-new G5 iMac, which has been delayed since late June.

Sources close to the computer maker told AppleInsider last week that the new iMac was complete and awaiting introduction. In addition to previously published descriptions of the new all-in-one desktop, tipsters added that the iMac G5 would sport an aluminum and chrome motif; a scheme consistent with the majority of the company's current hardware offerings.

Apple will reportedly incur significant air-freight charges to fly the new iMacs from manufacturing plants in Asia over to Europe and the United States, in an attempt to flood its retail channels.

So far, there has been no indication of when Apple will begin shipping the iMacs, though sources expect demand to greatly exceed the initial supply of units due to ongoing production issues associated with IBM's PowerPC 970 fx G5 processor. Customers who have their hearts set on an iMac G5 are urged to place orders as soon as the company allows them to do so.

Recent information has also suggested that Apple may be planning to introduce additional products during the Paris expo, but has reportedly engrossed itself and its Europe division in secrecy. Many employees scheduled to be on hand for the expo admittedly remain in the dark this week as to the company's official plans.

Apple made an unorthodox announcement of the new iMac in June and later confirmed that the computer would be based on a G5 processor from IBM. Official statements from the company have indicated that the new models should begin shipping in September.


The iMac G5 pictured above IS very eye pleasing for an AIO,
the more you look at it.
Let's all hope what we see on the 31st is something at least this good.

[vouder17]

I'm afriad thats the best I can do - too close to the source. Just wait for next week.

Blabber ;)

Well can you atleast tell us if you like it more than the current iMac G4, and please don't say that you can't compare the 2, just Yes or No..
Thanks

[aswitcher]

Well can you atleast tell us if you like it more than the current iMac G4, and please don't say that you can't compare the 2, just Yes or No..
Thanks


Just ignore these trolls. Anyone who actually knows something knows how to leak it and protect themselves. These others are trolls and time wasters.

[wrxsti86]

I felt G4 iMac is "he"

G5 iMac is "she"

[daveg5]

http://www.engadget.com/entry/7821595404972462/#c22523

this are really*cool concepts, especially thosw with detechable displays and firewire based wireless LCD,s and they all have the power supply outside the box.
still that cool cube concept was best to me.

[XboxEvolved]

I am hoping that the G5 iMac at least has some sort of swiveling screen, and all this crap about it being on the top side is not true.

I could give a box of crayons to a 4 years old and he could probably draw a more feasible iMac concept then that on the wall. If you ask me, if Apple "innovates" to far from the original iMac concept it will alienate many people and give others ammo to bash Apple. I think a nice simple silver finish, maybe some holes like the G5, perhaps more ridgid then the current iMac and it would be fine.

[CholEoptera36]

Hi there,

I can confirm that there will be a new G5 iMac lineup announced in Paris next week (saw one today). Expect major changes. Good times ahead!


Blabber

:D

So you...
can't say where you saw it...
can't say what it looks like...
can't say what the specs are, oh except it has a G5 (SHOCKER!)

Guess what everybody, there's gonna be a new iMac revealed at the Paris Expo!!!

wow NOBODY saw that comming... thanks for the tip!!!

If you ask me, if Apple "innovates" to far from the original iMac concept it will alienate many people and give others ammo to bash Apple.

Yeah XboxEvolved, I gotta agree with you. Going too far can be a bad thing. Apple hasn't done that with any of their current designs, but lets hope we don't see the new iMacs turn into a piece of abstract art.

The ideal goal would be to get it different than a PC, but not too crazy and far out. Recent designs prove that Apple has hit that one right on the button :)

[thatwendigo]

http://www.engadget.com/entry/7821595404972462/#c22523

this are really*cool concepts, especially thosw with detechable displays and firewire based wireless LCD,s and they all have the power supply outside the box.
still that cool cube concept was best to me.

FireWire. is. not. wireless.

How many times must I repeat that the 'wireless FireWire' rumor was based on a specific certification by the IEEE for applying the FireWire data streaming technique to a wireless format that doesn't even exist yet? The 802.15.3 standard will start at 55Mbit/s, which is a mere 1Mbit/s faster than current 802.11g. If it were possible, Apple could have already done it over the existing format.

Also, the wireless displays that people keep yammering about can't display video or complex images while not docked to the computer. They all have their own processor, RAM, and other components that basically make them simpler computers in and of themselves, and they're all expensive. We're talking about a screen that costs as much as a current iMac, and that's if you only have one that's 15" diagonal.

Most of those concepts were obviously made by people who don't understand the heat and power draw of the 970 processor, nor the technology they seem to want.

[CholEoptera36]

FireWire. is. not. wireless.

The 802.15.3 standard will start at 55Mbit/s, which is a mere 1Mbit/s faster than current 802.11g. If it were possible, Apple could have already done it over the existing format.


Yeah I've never heard of wireless FireWire either so I dunno what they're talking about.

But correct me if I'm wrong(which I might be) but isn't WiMax 70MBps wireless? They're already building a tower in Charlotte that has a thirty-three mile radius or signal that easily reaches my house. There is better wireless technology than 802.11g, just not in all areas right now. In all honestly WiMax isn't avalable for me yet either, I've lost track of the scheduling but isn't that supposed to be before the end of Q4 this year for NC? I'd definitely say, that technology is faster than 802.11g, and is better wireless. You don't even have to worry about a base station antenna. Correct me if I'm wrong ThatWendigo but did Apple come up with WiMax?

[CholEoptera36]

Okay took me 2 seconds to find a date again. WiMAX by 2006, I guess that would explain why I still can't buy the cards.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/02/intel_wimax/

By then I suppose that's about the moving rate of technology to be at those speeds, so scratch that last post of mine :p

[daveg5]

FireWire. is. not. wireless.

Daveg5: Calm down, I am just relaying what i saw and heard, this is still a rumor board right.

How many times must I repeat that the 'wireless FireWire' rumor was based on a specific certification by the IEEE for applying the FireWire data streaming technique to a wireless format that doesn't even exist yet? The 802.15.3 standard will start at 55Mbit/s, which is a mere 1Mbit/s faster than current 802.11g. If it were possible, Apple could have already done it over the existing format.

DaveG5: Dont bottle yourself in to much (apple could surprise us). Anyway what they may be talking about is a wireless screen that uses the firewire port, sort of like my logitech mx700 uses a USB port but is not USB wireless, you know, lets keep other possibilities open, no matter how stupid they sound within reason that is.

Also, the wireless displays that people keep yammering about can't display video or complex images while not docked to the computer. They all have their own processor, RAM, and other components that basically make them simpler computers in and of themselves, and they're all expensive. We're talking about a screen that costs as much as a current iMac, and that's if you only have one that's 15" diagonal.

Daveg5: This is so true they are$$$$ mainly because of there own ram, processor, etc. maybe apple has one that is really just a screen or like the tablet screen they just showed???, for a much lower price?

Most of those concepts were obviously made by people who don't understand the heat and power draw of the 970 processor, nor the technology they seem to want.

Daveg5: You are being to hard on free thought and imagination, I love 2 of the designs, the last one and the Imac G4 look alike available with or without a screen. A $999 Mini G5 Tower 1 pci-1 agp finally, with the demise of the Powermac G4, Apple has no upgradable (screenless) mac for under $2000, and the G5 is too much for many users.

Well on this I disagree, many of the designs take that into account and dont forget, we dont know if Apple will use the 970-970fx, or a low power G5, or even a free-scale dual core G4.
My point is Apple knows the best way to cool a cpu is.
.1 decrease the Buss ratio in half
.2 decrease the L2 cache
.3 eliminate L3 cache
.3.5 on the fly adjustable rate cpu, dependent on load
.4 large copper heat-sink
.5 efficient adjustable low noise fans
.6 ventilated airflow case
.7 good thermal compound

So what we could have is.
1.6 G5 with 256k L2cache, 400MHZ buss
1.8 G5 with 256k L2cache, 450MHZ buss
To be honest, Apple probably could have reach 3.0 GHZ on the Powermac if they had down graded the buss to 750GHZ, and used copper heat-sinks and better (quieter-more volume producing fans), but I can see why they didn't. no-one would accept a 3.0 GHZ G5 with less than a 1GHZ buss. So i guess a ratio of 3-1 would have been good. of course I am just fantasizing, so dont take me so serious. JMT.

[wdlove]

Daveg5: You are being to hard on free thought and imagination, I love 2 of the designs, the last one and the Imac G4 look alike available with or without a screen. A $999 Mini G5 Tower 1 pci-1 agp finally, with the demise of the Powermac G4, Apple has no upgradable (screenless) mac for under $2000, and the G5 is too much for many users.

So what we could have is.
1.6 G5 with 256k L2cache, 400MHZ buss
1.8 G5 with 256k L2cache, 450MHZ buss
To be honest, Apple probably could have reach 3.0 GHZ on the Powermac if they had down graded the buss to 750GHZ, and used copper heat-sinks and better (quieter-more volume producing fans), but I can see why they didn't. no-one would accept a 3.0 GHZ G5 with less than a 1GHZ buss. So i guess a ratio of 3-1 would have been good. of course I am just fantasizing, so dont take me so serious. JMT.

It would seem to me that if Apple could have actually reach the 3.0 GHz, then they would have. Steve has taken a lot of heat because he didn't reach his own goal.

[daveg5]

you are probably right, as I said I was just Fantasizing. plus I doubt Steve would go for a slower Bus then 1/2, Although he did, when the G4 was having similar Megahertz trouble, back in the day.

[thatwendigo]

Daveg5: You are being to hard on free thought and imagination, I love 2 of the designs, the last one and the Imac G4 look alike available with or without a screen. A $999 Mini G5 Tower 1 pci-1 agp finally, with the demise of the Powermac G4, Apple has no upgradable (screenless) mac for under $2000, and the G5 is too much for many users.

"Free thought and imagination" do not deny the realities of physics and engineering, no matter how much people wish for them.
This isn't Peter Pan, and no matter how hard you believe, Tinkerbell doesn't come back just because you really, really like that idea.

Well on this I disagree, many of the designs take that into account and dont forget, we dont know if Apple will use the 970-970fx, or a low power G5, or even a free-scale dual core G4.

The 970fx is the "low power G5." Please stop trying to correct me without having anything that actually contradicts what I say.

My point is Apple knows the best way to cool a cpu is.
.1 decrease the Buss ratio in half
.2 decrease the L2 cache
.3 eliminate L3 cache
.3.5 on the fly adjustable rate cpu, dependent on load
.4 large copper heat-sink
.5 efficient adjustable low noise fans
.6 ventilated airflow case
.7 good thermal compound

You're joking, right? The only advantage that the G5 has over the G4 is that it's got higher scalability and a faster system bus. That's it. If you cut the bus multiplier down and kill cache, you're taking out any performance advantage it could have had over the previous sytems, thus creating an overall package that is more expensive, hotter, and yet not at all an improvement. Also, the G4 already does processor scaling in the 7447A that's in current use, Apple realized that heat sinks aren't going to cut it on their own (see the LCM in the new PowerMacs), and thermal compound isn't going to solve a problem on the order of 20-40W.

To be honest, Apple probably could have reach 3.0 GHZ on the Powermac if they had down graded the buss to 750GHZ, and used copper heat-sinks and better (quieter-more volume producing fans), but I can see why they didn't. no-one would accept a 3.0 GHZ G5 with less than a 1GHZ buss. So i guess a ratio of 3-1 would have been good. of course I am just fantasizing, so dont take me so serious. JMT.

I highly doubt that, for any reason other than supply or impossibility, Apple would have not brought the 3.0ghz machine to market if it were technically feasible. They've done it before with the MDD G4 and I have no problem believing that they'd do it again, especially when a statement had been made to the effect of faster speeds.

Also... You have this weird continuing assertion that there are this products that are faster-but-cooler (the processors), quiter-but-better (the fans), and so on. Even assuming they did exist, using parts like that would be more expensive and, thus, kill your want for a cheaper machine.

[Daveman Deluxe]

You're joking, right? The only advantage that the G5 has over the G4 is that it's got higher scalability and a faster system bus. That's it. If you cut the bus multiplier down and kill cache, you're taking out any performance advantage it could have had over the previous sytems, thus creating an overall package that is more expensive, hotter, and yet not at all an improvement. Also, the G4 already does processor scaling in the 7447A that's in current use, Apple realized that heat sinks aren't going to cut it on their own (see the LCM in the new PowerMacs), and thermal compound isn't going to solve a problem on the order of 20-40W.

Untrue. The PPC970 has two FPU units instead of one on the MPC74xx series, for starters. Second, the 970 can also track two hundred in-flight instructions, as opposed to sixteen on the 74xx.

The only problem I can presently see with the die design of the 970 is the fact that the VMX unit is so far away from the front end of the processor that it wastes clock cycles propagating the signal. Boo.

[thatwendigo]

Untrue. The PPC970 has two FPU units instead of one on the MPC74xx series, for starters. Second, the 970 can also track two hundred in-flight instructions, as opposed to sixteen on the 74xx.

Yes. So?

What matters is real world performance, and that's what shows that the 970 doesn't reall "kill" the G4 in much of anything that isn't related to bandwidth and memory access. When you cut the bus down, as daveG5 is advocating, then you remove that advantage.

The G5 can't track what it can't have loaded.

The only problem I can presently see with the die design of the 970 is the fact that the VMX unit is so far away from the front end of the processor that it wastes clock cycles propagating the signal. Boo.

There's also the small matter of not having on-die memory control, though I suppose it could be argued that's a lack of potential features rather than a deficiency.

[daveg5]

"Free thought and imagination" do not deny the realities of physics and engineering, no matter how much people wish for them.
This isn't Peter Pan, and no matter how hard you believe, Tinkerbell doesn't come back just because you really, really like that idea.

DaveG5: What are you talking about, physics and engineering do not rule out a screenless G5 Or a G4 Imac lookalike (but with a G5.

The 970fx is the "low power G5." Please stop trying to correct me without having anything that actually contradicts what I say.


DaveG5: DUH. I highly doubt it is the low power one for the upcoming G5 that will be used in the Powerbooks, to which I was refering, there are always many chips with in a class. This may be the 970, as Apple has been reported to have chip supply problems with the dual 1.8 G5 970. We dont know though, granted.




You're joking, right? The only advantage that the G5 has over the G4 is that it's got higher scalability and a faster system bus. That's it. If you cut the bus multiplier down and kill cache, you're taking out any performance advantage it could have had over the previous sytems, thus creating an overall package that is more expensive, hotter, and yet not at all an improvement. Also, the G4 already does processor scaling in the 7447A that's in current use, Apple realized that heat sinks aren't going to cut it on their own (see the LCM in the new PowerMacs), and thermal compound isn't going to solve a problem on the order of 20-40W.

DaveG5: You obviously misread my list.
Thats debateable ofcourse so I want go there, as to list all the G5 advantages over the G4, you are convinced there is only two.
Buss speed has been shown to have extremely little efx in most applications, of course there are some that its needed. cutting the buss to 1/3 from 1/2 would probably not make that big of difference considering its coming from just 167MHZ, this would also cut heat and power requirements, not sure how much.
I was refering to the powerbook 550 and 667 rev A where Appletook the L2 cache from 1024k to 256k, and didnt add L3 because of heat and power concerns to make up for the cut. Later they added 1MB L3 cache and it made a nice difference in performance, the they went to this newer G4 with a 512L2 cache and cut L3 out. having both would be best, but cost and power heat concerns ruled that out, also I dont think that chip supports L3, not sure.
The IBM has no L3, so I wasnt talking about killing the cache there, just reducing the size in half if heat was a concern, maybe they will do that in powerbook G5's.
To my understanding the G4 powerbooks have processor cycling (not sure on G5's) which automatically cut the gigahertz the machine runs at when idol or doing something light, that keeps heat and power drain down, so those chips do exist, hopefully that process will make it's way to the G5 if it hasnt already.
there is a Giant market for copper heat sinks and fans and water cooling that goes way beyond the stock components you find and stock computers, they do exist, but are way too pricey, I dont think I have seen any direct replacements for the G5, just the G4 Mdd ( many users swear by them in their formally loud and hot over-clocked G4's, by quite are few venders, it's just a matter of time, you know. and a good thermal paste never hurt anyone.
The Ventilated case is extremely important from the Cube to the PM G5 to the Imac G5. All of these cooler ideas taken together could work wonders, individually just a little.


I highly doubt that, for any reason other than supply or impossibility, Apple would have not brought the 3.0ghz machine to market if it were technically feasible. They've done it before with the MDD G4 and I have no problem believing that they'd do it again, especially when a statement had been made to the effect of faster speeds.

Also... You have this weird continuing assertion that there are this products that are faster-but-cooler (the processors), quiter-but-better (the fans), and so on. Even assuming they did exist, using parts like that would be more expensive and, thus, kill your want for a cheaper machine.

DaveG5:Well I hate to use the word impossibility and Apple together, I was just laying out a possibility from my experience over-clocking a G4. All the above, especially the cache, then heats-ink, fan, thermal compound, and ventilation, all could have possibly made the 2.5 G5 a 3.0 G5. I of-course know of no-one willing to risk $3000 on a theory, but hey I thought I would throw it out there. I am also sure IBM has a few chips as we speak above 3.0GHZ, just too few and far between to be marketed yet, and yes way too expensive.
But we digress, lets get back to the main subject at hand. "IMAC G5"
I fully expect Imac AIO G5's somewhere between 1.6-2.0GHZ max. $999-$1999-17-20" within a few hours time, I hope the video is BTO upgradable to 128MB, which is most important to me, and possible pc card/pci slot (not a must but would be great to add firewire 800 card laterUsb3 or 3rd party expansion), along with a 16ms screen-170 degree+ screen)
I of course would love 1.8-2.0-2.5.

[daveg5]

No more Imac G4 on Apple's site, just the powermac G4 single.

[thatwendigo]

DaveG5: What are you talking about, physics and engineering do not rule out a screenless G5 Or a G4 Imac lookalike (but with a G5.

Actually, depending on just what you're talking about, physics does rule out quite a few things that people have been yammering for on the board. I've already done bandwidth breakdowns for screens of certain sizes and refresh rates, shown how current wireless displays are hideously expensive even when made from commodity parts that the manufacturers produce for themselves and aren't selling to another party, and also demonstrated the wattage problems with just shoehorning a 970 processor into the current form factor.

DaveG5: DUH. I highly doubt it is the low power one for the upcoming G5 that will be used in the Powerbooks, to which I was refering, there are always many chips with in a class. This may be the 970, as Apple has been reported to have chip supply problems with the dual 1.8 G5 970. We dont know though, granted.

What "low power one for the upcoming G5 that will be used in the Powerbooks" are you talking about? I've not seen any announcement that IBM is preparing some special low-wattage 970. Also, you might want to work on structuring your sentences a little more clearly, since saying that "This may be the 970, as Apple has been reported to have chip supply problems" implies that the G5 is more likely to be used because Apple already has supply problems.

Thats debateable ofcourse so I want go there, as to list all the G5 advantages over the G4, you are convinced there is only two.

I'm convinced because I've researched the topic and the evidence shows, pretty clearly, that the only place the G5 is clearly superior is in bandwidth. Without a huge pipeline feeding it, the processors would choke and do no better than the G4.

Buss speed has been shown to have extremely little efx in most applications, of course there are some that its needed. cutting the buss to 1/3 from 1/2 would probably not make that big of difference considering its coming from just 167MHZ, this would also cut heat and power requirements, not sure how much.

Wrong. Bus speed is all that makes a difference, other than the additional clockrate, which wouldn't matter without the bus to keep it fed. It's sheer naivete to say that the bus doesn't effect the performance all that greatly, especially since it's one of the only major improvements in the newer chip.

To my understanding the G4 powerbooks have processor cycling (not sure on G5's) which automatically cut the gigahertz the machine runs at when idol or doing something light, that keeps heat and power drain down, so those chips do exist, hopefully that process will make it's way to the G5 if it hasnt already.

I already said that, you know. The MPC7447A (which is in the most recent PowerBooks) has processor staging, as do the 970fx chips that are in xServe and PowerMac G5s of the most current revision. Even so, the 2.0ghz processor still outputs over 25W at its lowest non-sleep setting, with the 1.6ghz possibly clocking closer to the svelte 1.5ghz 7447A's 11-12W for the processor. This says nothing of the bus or any other factor.

there is a Giant market for copper heat sinks and fans and water cooling that goes way beyond the stock components you find and stock computers, they do exist, but are way too pricey, I dont think I have seen any direct replacements for the G5, just the G4 Mdd ( many users swear by them in their formally loud and hot over-clocked G4's, by quite are few venders, it's just a matter of time, you know. and a good thermal paste never hurt anyone.

I'm... confused.

Where in my post did I say that there wasn't a market for cooling solutions? The point is that Apple would have used them and brought the machine to market, if it was at all possible for them to do so. They're not stupid and they plan ahead, since the LCM is pretty obviously a futureproofing against the day that PowerPCs creep towards the place that modern-day x86 chips are already shoving the thermal barrier. There's a very good reason that Intel is moving to the Jonas core on the desktop, after all.

I fully expect Imac AIO G5's somewhere between 1.6-2.0GHZ max. $999-$1999-17-20" within a few hours time, I hope the video is BTO upgradable to 128MB, which is most important to me, and possible pc card/pci slot (not a must but would be great to add firewire 800 card laterUsb3 or 3rd party expansion), along with a 16ms screen-170 degree+ screen)
I of course would love 1.8-2.0-2.5.

The keynote isn't until the 31st, which is around 24 hours off, so that's strike one. The price is almost certianly not coming down, what with the entire system having to be redesigned and using newer, more expensive components. Strike two. Also, the target market for the iMac doesn't really tend to use expansion cards or change anything, and that's something I bet Apple realizes. It's a simple machine for people who just want their computer to work. Strike three.

You might see screens like the pro ones on the iMacs, but that's the one thing I think you could be right about. It's possible that I'm wrong and Apple's wrought a miracle, but I doubt it.

No more Imac G4 on Apple's site, just the powermac G4 single.

If you're talking about the store, then that's been true for months. Where have you been?

If you're talking about the main website, then I have just one thing to say:

Wrong!

[iMeowbot]

No more Imac G4 on Apple's site, just the powermac G4 single.
Which of the Apple sites are you looking at? From where I sit, nothing has changed since last week; that is, the old iMac is still there in the hardware and store pages, with the note that they're no longer being produced.

[HL-Audio]

Looks kinda neat...


http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/imac-g5-spy-shot-020385.php

[CmdrLaForge]

Looks kinda neat...


http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/imac-g5-spy-shot-020385.php

Its a fake - and that has been stated already by the author.

[Edge100]

Looks kinda neat...


http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/imac-g5-spy-shot-020385.php

Ummm, the original poster of this pic has admitted it is a fake.

Its a LaCie 20" LCD in Powerbook box.

[daveg5]

Which of the Apple sites are you looking at? From where I sit, nothing has changed since last week; that is, the old iMac is still there in the hardware and store pages, with the note that they're no longer being produced.
wasnt there when i posted, and i am talking about the store, i refreshed and looked, it was not there, now it is next to the emac again. I am not lying. they did this type of thing before. with powerbooks, g5's etc. no biggie just reporting what i didnt see, oh well, makes me look stupid now that its back up.

[daveg5]

got me on the keynote date, I got my days wrong, easy mistake when you are hyped. monday tuesday.

[daveg5]

Dave G5: I fully expect Imac AIO G5's somewhere between 1.6-2.0GHZ max. $999-$1999-17-20" within a few hours time, I hope the video is BTO upgradable to 128MB, which is most important to me, and possible pc card/pci slot (not a must but would be great to add firewire 800 card laterUsb3 or 3rd party expansion), along with a 16ms screen-170 degree+ screen)
I of course would love 1.8-2.0-2.5.



The physic thatwendigo:The keynote isn't until the 31st, which is around 24 hours off, so that's strike one. The price is almost certianly not coming down, what with the entire system having to be redesigned and using newer, more expensive components. Strike two. Also, the target market for the iMac doesn't really tend to use expansion cards or change anything, and that's something I bet Apple realizes. It's a simple machine for people who just want their computer to work. Strike three.

Dave G5: when you have wited since Janurary, 24 hours are just a few hours. Ninth inning out 1.
Neither you are I know what the price will be, Virtually all other recently updated Macs have had price cuts, It is possible with the Imac too, with the edu model at $999 or so, consumer combo at $1299, like always, and so forth. We are talkin market share here and Apple may take a smaller profit. We dont know. Ninth inning out 2.

That target market has changed, the emac has taken that original imac market away, also the original iMac had an expansion slot that 3rd parties used for video and other upgrades. BTO video upgrades is one of the most requested featues in these imacs g5's thread, so I dont rule out no BTO 128MB or standard 128mb video card in the higher up models, I will agree though that a pc card slot/pci slot is wishful thinking on my part, heehee. Ninth inning out 3.
Game Over!!



Physic thatwendigo: You might see screens like the pro ones on the iMacs, but that's the one thing I think you could be right about. It's possible that I'm wrong and Apple's wrought a miracle, but I doubt it.

DaveG5 : Again we dont know and this is a rumor site, so they may be 25MS.
however I think the old 20" imac used the same panel as the cinemas for like Just $900 more than the display alone.

You Loose!
New Game.

Since you are so "knowledgeable" and quick to point out what you "know" is impossible and wrong with other's rumors and theories and facts, then what are your thoughts on what you think the new imacs will look like and contain and be priced at. We would love a chance to pick apart your ideas and wishes also. I freely admit I can be wrong on almost everything , so can you, as developments and changes in tech, cost and Apple marketing that we havent seen, could have taken place. So let it loose, if you are not afraid that is.
Call me now

[Little Endian]

If these specs are true then even the top of the line imac would be crap and poor Value for the money. Lets see a 20inch Display, Single 1.8Ghz G5, RAM maxes at 2Gb, no PCI-X expansion and a most likely non upgradeable Geforce Fx 5200 for around $2200!! One Can get a Dual 1.8 GHz G5 plus 20 inch Cinema Display for Only $1000 more but you would get two processors instead of just one, More Ram expandability, PCI-X slots, Firewire 800 and the ability to upgrade Graphics Card and more internal drives. Also one would at least have the option of keeping the Monitor if one chooses to upgrade.

[madmaxmedia]

I love this post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=982806&postcount=148) regarding the BMW comparisons, especially since Steve Jobs has mentioned BMW in the past:

1) you're buying an apple, not a pc... there will never be a price competitive macintosh; that would be like asking for a bmw that has a price competitive with a ford...

Umm, already has happened. BMW owns Mini, Mini sells the Mini Cooper and Cooper Type S (FWD) and both are priced as a slightly premium priced car against Ford, Honda, and GM competition but not ridiculously so, and the sales have come by virtue of Mini using the Apple mentality of "Thinking different" and providing more bang/style for the $. BMW is also working on their forthcoming 1 & 2 series coupe and hatch (RWD). In the U.S. we're likely to get the 2 series coupe which will pattern itself off of the much heralded BMW 2002 of years lore. It'll likely price in in non-M format around the Cobalt SS/SS Supercharged (replaces Cavalier) and other higher-line models from Ford and DC. It'll offer the usual BMW handling prowess and capabilities, the cachet, and do so by offering a blend of "Get what you pay for" premium vs "We charge more 'cause we can" mentality.

Lots of companies can do great expensive design, but I think truly exemplary design is done with suitable pricing in mind. I think Apple can do a $999 iMac with monitor if they really want, and it seems from recent comments that they would like to.

Apple will continue to make money whether this iMac starts at $999 or $1299, but they really have an opportunity (I think the best in YEARS) to significantly expand their user base. It seems like some Mac fans don't care, but imagine the difference a 10% market share would make vs. a 5% share? (which I think is honestly achievable with the right product mix, starting with this new iMac).

The success of the iPod and iTunes (and the stores as well) has raised the public awareness of Apple to a level not seen in years. So many people own PC's but now have experienced Apple product design with the iPod (and even iTunes for pete's sake). You might argue that PC's can also be sold with a significant premium, but G4 iMac sales seem to indicate otherwise. I'll pay double for a latte at Starbucks or Peet's, but that doesn't mean I'll pay double for a $2000 computer.

NOW is the time to strike and really go for Joe Consumer. People are arguing about whether the iMac is for "everybody" or not, but why not for everybody? I don't think being elitist ever helped a company. They can't get the bargain $500 market, but I they can truly compete in the midlevel $1000 market, WITHOUT sacrificing their quality and design ideals.

Finally, as to the Dell comparisons, I think someone pointed to this recent satisfaction survey (http://www.macnn.com/news/25971) - (Apple was first)

That is well and dandy, but in second place by not too many points was the infamous Dell. Of course the 2 companies are very different, but it's not like Dell releases trash either- to do what they do and make money requires just as much skill and execution (though of a different sort.) My point is not that Apple must match Dell pricing, my point is that Apple cannot IGNORE Dell pricing either.

Take a calculated risk, now's the right time. Price it so that you will make money if sales are high (that's probably the only way they can do a $999 AIO iMac.) If they do that, I am sure they will hit their sales targets. Down the road, these new iMac owners are going to drive tower and notebook sales with higher margins. They have a ton of cash sitting around, it's not like they'll go Chapter 11 if sales are initially lower than expected.

Anyway, that's my opinion (former Mac Classic owner, hopefully future iMac owner.)

[daveg5]

Daveg5: You are being to hard on free thought and imagination, I love 2 of the designs, the last one and the Imac G4 look alike available with or without a screen. A $999 Mini G5 Tower 1 pci-1 agp finally, with the demise of the Powermac G4, Apple has no upgradable (screenless) mac for under $2000, and the G5 is too much for many users.

Well on this I disagree, many of the designs take that into account and dont forget, we dont know if Apple will use the 970-970fx, or a low power G5, or even a free-scale dual core G4.
My point is Apple knows the best way to cool a cpu is.
.1 decrease the Buss ratio in half
.2 decrease the L2 cache
.3 eliminate L3 cache
.3.5 on the fly adjustable rate cpu, dependent on load
.4 large copper heat-sink
.5 efficient adjustable low noise fans
.6 ventilated airflow case
.7 good thermal compound

So what we could have is.
1.6 G5 with 256k L2cache, 400MHZ buss
1.8 G5 with 256k L2cache, 450MHZ buss
To be honest, Apple probably could have reach 3.0 GHZ on the Powermac if they had down graded the buss to 750GHZ, and used copper heat-sinks and better (quieter-more volume producing fans), but I can see why they didn't. no-one would accept a 3.0 GHZ G5 with less than a 1GHZ buss. So i guess a ratio of 3-1 would have been good. of course I am just fantasizing, so dont take me so serious. JMT.
wow i was almost spot on with the lower buss to reduce heat, but was wrong about cache i will have to look through the posr to see who was closest., cool we were all not that far off.
!! wheres the prize

[daveg5]

FireWire. is. not. wireless.

How many times must I repeat that the 'wireless FireWire' rumor was based on a specific certification by the IEEE for applying the FireWire data streaming technique to a wireless format that doesn't even exist yet? The 802.15.3 standard will start at 55Mbit/s, which is a mere 1Mbit/s faster than current 802.11g. If it were possible, Apple could have already done it over the existing format.

Also, the wireless displays that people keep yammering about can't display video or complex images while not docked to the computer. They all have their own processor, RAM, and other components that basically make them simpler computers in and of themselves, and they're all expensive. We're talking about a screen that costs as much as a current iMac, and that's if you only have one that's 15" diagonal.

Most of those concepts were obviously made by people who don't understand the heat and power draw of the 970 processor, nor the technology they seem to want.
Wow the link i posted earlier was also spot on, i said 1299-1499 again almost spot on. admittedly I made quite a few predictions, but that was my latesest and thewindethe go just have to say. you are out and wrong on almost everything.
HAHAHA TOLD YOU SO!!! :p

[thatwendigo]

Wow the link i posted earlier was also spot on, i said 1299-1499 again almost spot on. admittedly I made quite a few predictions, but that was my latesest and thewindethe go just have to say. you are out and wrong on almost everything.
HAHAHA TOLD YOU SO!!! :p

Learn to read. I said that the problems I listed wouldn't be solved by what you said, and it turned out I was right. Apple had to cut an awful lot of the performance factors of the G5 in order to cram one into a new design (which has a full third more internal volume to help dissipate heat).

Yes, you were right that they could have done that. I was saying that it would kill most of the performance advantage to do so.

[daveg5]

Learn to read. I said that the problems I listed wouldn't be solved by what you said, and it turned out I was right. Apple had to cut an awful lot of the performance factors of the G5 in order to cram one into a new design (which has a full third more internal volume to help dissipate heat).

Yes, you were right that they could have done that. I was saying that it would kill most of the performance advantage to do so.

Ouch, that hurt!http://forums.macrumors.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1014025# no need for insults, we can both read and misread, I apologize if I missed read you, and cant wait for bench marks against the old 1.6-1.8 Powermac G5's with the same video card and memory. the viewing angles on the 17" are not very good at all. the MS response of the screens were not listed, so I am assuming 25MS, the old monitor at 20" can be found for $1000, so just add $900 to that and you get a non upgradable G5. Not Bad
Apple did the best they could and I applaud the price cuts.
not as good as many hoped. but better than many thought, not earth-shattering or groundbreaking, but a good compromise. I cant wait to see people hang them on their walls.
Some shortcomings:
Especially no BTO 128MB video offering, , Memory limited to 2GB, at least for now as 2GB sticks are coming I hope, no Pc card offering, no firewire 800, small hard drive standard and optional in this day of 200GB for $100. the industries smallest standard memory by a computer company, I am not sure if the G5 is soldered on or not, I was very surprised they left the power supply in the case, if taken out they could have reduced heat and size even more, but added another cable, this makes a powerbook G5 look more possible now, unless moto really has dual core G4. dual 1.25 G4's have actually beat the single G5 powermacs at MP-aware apps with the slow buss, a dual core G4 at 1.6-1.8 with a faster buss would scream past them. :(

[h00ligan]

can i get my ups.. i'm the only one who said it would look like the old anniversary updated.. and i was spot on.

damnit!

[daveg5]

can i get my ups.. i'm the only one who said it would look like the old anniversary updated.. and i was spot on.

damnit!
UPS!!

[h00ligan]

UPS!!

heh.. thanks dave!