Intel Arrandale Benchmarks Show Major Improvements for Notebooks

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/04/intel-arrandale-benchmarks-show-major-improvements-for-notebooks/)

The embargo is up for news and reviews on Intel's new Arrandale mobile processors. Arrandale represents the 32-nm die shrink of the Nehalem processors and will represent the first Nehalem processors that are usable in a laptops such as the MacBook Pro. These new chips also offer improved integrated graphics on the same chip. While there was some unconfirmed talk (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/07/apple-to-skip-intel-arrandale-demands-alternative-chip/) that Apple may skip this generation of chips, they remain the best option to upgrade the MacBook Pro.

Anandtech provides (http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3705&p=1) an overview of the newly announced chips which run as fast as 2.66GHz (Dual Core) as a base speed with Turbo speeds (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3634&p=4) as high as 3.33GHz. Direct comparisons of the 2.53GHz Arrandale and the 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo currently used in the MacBook Pro showed notable improvements (http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3705&p=3) at the same clock speed:


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2010/01/04/081610-arrandale_500.png

The performance advantage was even more impressive for Cinebench (38-43%) and x264 HD encoding (26-45%), along with notable improvements in the integrated graphics performance. Anandtech found battery life (http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3705&p=4) to be on-par with the current Core 2 Duos, but this is expected to improve with later generations of Arrandale. In conclusion:From the balanced notebook perspective, Arrandale is awesome. Battery life doesn't improve, but performance goes up tremendously. The end result is better performance for hopefully the same power consumption. If you're stuck with an aging laptop it's worth the wait. If you can wait even longer we expect to see a second rev of Arrandale silicon towards the middle of the year with better power characteristics.Apple is, of course, expected to use these processors in their next generation MacBook Pros, though the exact timeframe for the adoption remains unknown.

Article Link: Intel Arrandale Benchmarks Show Major Improvements for Notebooks (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/04/intel-arrandale-benchmarks-show-major-improvements-for-notebooks/)

[sfoalex]

And I just bought a MacBook Pro. Oh well. Not going to return it after I just got it all set up. These benchmarks improvements look great.

[alent1234]

not like these CPU's were a big secret, Intel announced that they were going to release them over a year ago

[sfoalex]

not like these CPU's were a big secret, Intel announced that they were going to release them over a year ago

I haven't been following this stuff for years. Just bought a few Macs for home, office and travel through November and December. My Core2Dou machines will be fine for my needs.

[talkingfuture]

Looks good, I wonder if we'll see new Macs soon or have a lengthy wait.

[oscarfrancis]

Improved integrated graphics? Improved over what? The X3100? The current Intel mobile CPUs don't include GPUs, unlike Arrandale.

[t0mat0]

February-March? Doesn't seem too hard. Would Apple update the MBPs prior to releasing an announcement of the tablet though? I'd imagine they'd do it afterwards.

[sfoalex]

Improved integrated graphics? Improved over what? The X3100? The current Intel mobile CPUs don't include GPUs, unlike Arrandale.

And the current MBPs have nVidia 9400M GPUs, which work quite well in my humble opinion. So far those intel integrated GPUs have performed poorly.

[adamw]

Looks good. I think I'll wait for the lower power update of these chips though. Lower power and less heat with these speeds would be very desirable.

[Elijahg]

Improved integrated graphics? Improved over what? The X3100? The current Intel mobile CPUs don't include GPUs, unlike Arrandale.

I doubt the graphics perform anywhere near as well as the 9400m, I also doubt that the Intel graphics support OpenCL. All new Macs have to support OpenCL really. So either Apple's going to have to put a dedicated graphics chip in their Macbook and 13" MBP, or maybe use their chip company to make a new chipset controller with decent graphics silicon in.

[Ambrose Chapel]

February-March? Doesn't seem too hard. Would Apple update the MBPs prior to releasing an announcement of the tablet though? I'd imagine they'd do it afterwards.

i can see a notebook refresh being the opening act of the tablet unveiling on the 26th (if that is in fact when it happens).

[sticky.chicken]

February-March? Doesn't seem too hard. Would Apple update the MBPs prior to releasing an announcement of the tablet though? I'd imagine they'd do it afterwards.

The whole tablet thing is probably going to be a bit of a yawn. I just want the damn Macbook Pro line to be updated so that I can get one. I don't need a new laptop, but my old G4 Powerbook is starting to die.

[Michael73]

My 15" MBP won't be a year old till the beginning of April. I think I'll hold out till Apple can work it's customary magic on a quad core mobile MBP with decent battery life and design characteristics.

[iDisk]

Core i3 Chips 330M & 350M Will go into the Air

Core i3 350:



2.26Ghz
667 GPU Speed
3mb L3 Cache



Core i3 330:



2.13Ghz
Everything else is the same



Core i5 Chips:



540m at 2.53Ghz
520m at 2.4Ghz
430m at 2.26Ghz
All have 3MB L3 Cache & 766Mhz GPU Speed



I say no more then 3 months (March 30th) will have new notebooks. I have a slightly different configuration in the "MacBook Air Realistic" Thread I did.

PLEASE REMEMBER THAT INTEL IS SLATED TO RELEASE 17 NEW CPUs IN EARLY 2010

ATI Will be a good graphics alternative too for these processors.

iDisk


:apple:

[alphaod]

Maybe we'll be lucky and Intel will offer a CPU for Apple that doesn't have the integrated GPU because as far as I can tell they are already separate dies.

[applesupergeek]

Igfx is obviously improved over past intel offerings because these were the bottom of the barrel. We didn't need anandtech to tell us that, if intel hadn't improved upon their worst in class offerings it would be a feat.

Why aren't anandtech saying that an improved intel igfx, is still worst in class, worst than pretty much all their competitors?

Maybe if intel wasn't bankrolling anandtech we 'd actually see an objective review.

And after all that hype a 15% or so increase in performance and no increase in performance in battery life, with a new architecture, is far from being notable. And what with the current bottlenecks being ram and ssd speed, it's actually negligible.

Of course I am not on intels big marketing payroll and I can call it like it is.

[diamond.g]

Improved integrated graphics? Improved over what? The X3100? The current Intel mobile CPUs don't include GPUs, unlike Arrandale.

The X4500MHD. The Anandtech article also claims that the GPU is able to keep up with the AMD 790GX. Which appears isn't that slow. I can't seem to find anything that specifically compares the 9400M to the 790GX.

[heisetax]

Maybe we'll be lucky and Intel will offer a CPU for Apple that doesn't have the integrated GPU because as far as I can tell they are already separate dies.

Then Intel could use those liberated transistors to increase the size of the L3 cache, other good use or just make a lower power using version.

[iBunny]

Intel nor Apple can remove the integrated graphics on these chips because the CPUs memory controller is located on the graphics die and not the CPU die.

[lightsout]

The X4500MHD. The Anandtech article also claims that the GPU is able to keep up with the AMD 790GX. Which appears to be able to keep up with the 9400M just fine.

They are better, but still not up to AMD's 785. Given it's age, that is quite poor IMHO.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/18216/5

Intel's graphics are a joke.

[puckhead193]

ok enough talk, bring on apple... puckhead needs new computers!!

[crees!]

Leaving the research to others how do these chips stack up to the i5 & i7's in the current iMac?

[diamond.g]

They are better, but still not up to AMD's 785. Given it's age, that is quite poor IMHO.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/18216/5

Intel's graphics are a joke.

You are correct. It isn't as bad as their previous offerings but it isn't super fast either. Being only a year behind versus like 3 or 4 isn't too shameful. Shoot as it stand Nvidia is a year behind AMD at the moment...

[eastcoastsurfer]

What sucks about this is that Intel is using their great new CPU to push their inferior graphics chips. Having a complete platform for system builders is fine, but including the graphics chip on the CPU die was fail from the start.

[applesupergeek]

What sucks about this is that Intel is using their great new CPU to push their inferior graphics chips. Having a complete platform for system builders is fine, but including the graphics chip on the CPU die was fail from the start.

Amen, a fact always silenced by mainstream tec media.

[lilskaterpunk]

Looks good. I wonder when Apple will start using them... ;)

[csdibiase]

I'm really hoping we don't have to wait any longer than January 26th for the new MBP's. I really want to get a macbook pro but I don't want to dive in right at the end of a cycle.

[AidenShaw]

What sucks about this is that Intel is using their great new CPU to push their inferior graphics chips. Having a complete platform for system builders is fine, but including the graphics chip on the CPU die was fail from the start.

Apple doesn't have to use the integrated graphics - the chips are cheap so that it's not a serious drawback.

Intel isn't forcing anyone to use the GPU.

[Tilpots]

Would these new Arrandale chips make it into the Mini? The power consumption is a non-issue here.

[Marx55]

The key information is their thermal design power (TDP).

[Clete2]

Only time will tell if Apple will include these in the new MBPs.

Let's hope we hear something at the media event!

In the meantime, enjoy CES this weekend.

[netkas]

igp is on die with qpi/memory/pcie/dmi controllers, they can't separate it, so maybe will just disable.

[sticky.chicken]

I'm really hoping we don't have to wait any longer than January 26th for the new MBP's. I really want to get a macbook pro but I don't want to dive in right at the end of a cycle.

Yeah - that's my concern. I want one to replace my now very old G4 powerbook, but I can wait another couple of months. I'd like to think it will be announced by the end of January.

[eastcoastsurfer]

Apple doesn't have to use the integrated graphics - the chips are cheap so that it's not a serious drawback.

Intel isn't forcing anyone to use the GPU.

You don't have to use it, but now it's part of the IGP so you're getting it whether you want it or not. What chipsets are out there that allow you to use the new Intel procs, but a 3rd party graphics chip?

[Rocketman]

Looks good. I think I'll wait for the lower power update of these chips though. Lower power and less heat with these speeds would be very desirable.

If you can wait even longer we expect to see a second rev of Arrandale silicon towards the middle of the year with better power characteristics.

If you like mid-year updates for the "books", then Apple's preference for extreme power management and their likely first access to Intel silicon ought to make this update interesting.

I wonder if the larger tablet will also use this variant so they have motherboard compatibility between tablet, book, mini, and future iMac form factors.

I am voting for quad core, GPU acceleration and Arrandale low power all under the hood.

Rocketman

Double battery BTO option please Steve.

[ts1973]

Apple doesn't have to use the integrated graphics - the chips are cheap so that it's not a serious drawback.

Intel isn't forcing anyone to use the GPU.

I hope you are right, but am not so sure this statement is correct.

In any case, this is a statement from another (clarkdale) review :

We have Westmere parts in our hands (a bit earlier than we expected last year) with Clarkdale and while I am impressed to see the technology working, the processor really fills a specific market segment. The most specific thing I can say to a potential buyer of a Clarkdale processor is this: it only makes sense to buy one if you are going to utilize the integrated graphics. If you plan on adding a discrete graphics card anyway, then it makes more sense to use that processor budget for a Lynnfield part.

In other words : IGP still is worthless, unfortunately. That's why I still believe the news that Apple will be calling Intel for a specific cpu part without the GPU, whether they'll get it will be interesting.

[arkmannj]

You don't have to use it, but now it's part of the IGP so you're getting it whether you want it or not. What chipsets are out there that allow you to use the new Intel procs, but a 3rd party graphics chip?

Could Apple just include 2 Discrete graphics chipsets, and leave the intel Integrated just for extra OpenCL processing or something ?

Or an extra monitor port would be nice :-) I would love two external screens on my MBP

[applesupergeek]

Apple doesn't have to use the integrated graphics - the chips are cheap so that it's not a serious drawback.

Intel isn't forcing anyone to use the GPU.

What kind of tortuous logic is this? Typical as it might be for this user of course.

Intel isn't forcing anyone to use their gpu by including it in all the mobile chips and not offering an option without it?

[ts1973]

You don't have to use it, but now it's part of the IGP so you're getting it whether you want it or not. What chipsets are out there that allow you to use the new Intel procs, but a 3rd party graphics chip?

That would be PM55. Also: GPU is part of the IGP but you can disable it (with clarkdale anyway).

[baryon]

My 15" MBP won't be a year old till the beginning of April. I think I'll hold out till Apple can work it's customary magic on a quad core mobile MBP with decent battery life and design characteristics.

lol! "hold out"? A Mac should last around 5 years! Getting the new version each year would be quite a waste indeed!

[AidenShaw]

You don't have to use it, but now it's part of the IGP so you're getting it whether you want it or not. What chipsets are out there that allow you to use the new Intel procs, but a 3rd party graphics chip?

Arrandale itself supports discrete graphics - the PCIe x16 lanes can be sent outside the chip - note the iGFX inside the CPU package, and PCIe discrete outside:

http://www.pcper.com/images/reviews/787/12.jpg click to enlarge, full story at http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=787

The whining about the integrated graphics is not reasonable - just turn it off if you don't want it. Intel is saving money with the two-chip package, and so will you.

[xIGmanIx]

even so, i would rather have more hardware then design updates. to me, not having quad core at this point as an option is a little insulting.

My 15" MBP won't be a year old till the beginning of April. I think I'll hold out till Apple can work it's customary magic on a quad core mobile MBP with decent battery life and design characteristics.

[RogueWarrior65]

I have to run Solidworks (to my utter chagrin) on Bootcamp. I'd like to know if that near 30% boost in 3D performance carries over to the Windows side of things.

[applesupergeek]

Arrandale itself supports discrete graphics - the PCIe x16 lanes can be sent outside the chip - note the iGFX inside the CPU package, and PCIe discrete outside:

http://www.pcper.com/images/reviews/787/12.jpg click to enlarge, full story at http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=787

The whining about the integrated graphics is not reasonable - just turn it off if you don't want it. Intel is saving money with the two-chip package, and so will you.

They support discrete graphics? Oh what a technological advantage, it's not as if every cpu on the globe does that....:rolleyes: more tortuous logic...

Turning it off is not an alternative to not having it there at all and not allowing a igfx for another brand.

Next time you buy a car, I will shove an inferior break system, and tell you just turn it off and use one from another manufacturer.

[AidenShaw]

Next time you buy a car, I will shove an inferior break system, and tell you just turn it off and use one from another manufacturer.

Why aren't people complaining that the radio chip in the Iphone supports an FM tuner (which Apple is not using)? Is every Iphone user being penalized because a few transistors on a large scale integrated circuit aren't being utilized?

The Iphone would cost more, not less, if Apple insisted on a custom chip without the FM radio tuner. Same with Arrandale - a custom chip for Apple would cost much more.

[iDisk]

Why aren't people complaining that the radio chip in the Iphone supports an FM tuner (which Apple is not using)? Is every Iphone user being penalized because a few transistors on a large scale integrated circuit aren't being utilized?

The Iphone would cost more, not less, if Apple insisted on a custom chip without the RM radio tuner. Same with Arrandale.

If Apple wanted to unlock the potential of the current iPhone 3Gs then, there would be no need to update it this June/July.

Price would still stay the same. ALL of Apple's products are "under-clocked" (for lack of a better word.

[scroto]

Igfx is obviously improved over past intel offerings because these were the bottom of the barrel. We didn't need anandtech to tell us that, if intel hadn't improved upon their worst in class offerings it would be a feat.

Why aren't anandtech saying that an improved intel igfx, is still worst in class, worst than pretty much all their competitors?

Maybe if intel wasn't bankrolling anandtech we 'd actually see an objective review.

And after all that hype a 15% or so increase in performance and no increase in performance in battery life, with a new architecture, is far from being notable. And what with the current bottlenecks being ram and ssd speed, it's actually negligible.

Of course I am not on intels big marketing payroll and I can call it like it is.

No you're not on Intels Bankroll you're on Apples ball sack and since Apple apparently wont be using Arrandale you hate it.

[AidenShaw]

No you're not on Intels Bankroll you're on Apples ball sack ...

LOL, someone with the nickname "scroto" using "ball sack" in a post! :D


... and since Apple apparently wont be using Arrandale you hate it.

I'd expect to see Arrandale MacBook Pros soon. I suspect that the "Apple won't use Arrandale" rumour is really based on "Apple won't use Arrandale's iGFX", but it was garbled during the retelling.

They support discrete graphics? Oh what a technological advantage, it's not as if every cpu on the globe does that....:rolleyes: more tortuous logic...

Tortuous logic?

I was replying to a question
Originally Posted by eastcoastsurfer
What chipsets are out there that allow you to use the new Intel procs, but a 3rd party graphics chip?by pointing out that Arrandale itself can support PCIe x16 graphics cards and discrete 3rd party GPU chips.

The question was asked by someone who apparently thought that iGFX precluded an external solution.

[Patz80]

The whole tablet thing is probably going to be a bit of a yawn. I just want the damn Macbook Pro line to be updated so that I can get one. I don't need a new laptop, but my old G4 Powerbook is starting to die.

This was so my answer!:) After six years I'm ready for a new MacBook Pro.

[Eidorian]

You don't have to use it, but now it's part of the IGP so you're getting it whether you want it or not. What chipsets are out there that allow you to use the new Intel procs, but a 3rd party graphics chip?All of them. The concern isn't about the chipset since the PCIe 2.0 controller is onboard the processor package. Though you are going to have to use H5x to support FDI to have outputs for the IGP.

P55 spinoffs will solely rely on discrete solutions.

Westmere is especially optimized for a mobile role. It fits into the Intel business platforms as well. The benchmarks are rather lacking compared to Lynnfield and Deneb on the desktop side.

[CubeHacker]

The problem here isn't whether or not Apple can use a discrete video card. Of course they can. They problem is that they don't want to - at least for their cheaper line of notebooks. They don't want to have to go back to the day of sticking a Radeon 9200 into the ibooks. Which is exactly why when they switched to Intel, Apple was perfectly happy just using the integrated Intel graphics in the Macbook line... at least until Nvidia came along and offered them something much faster with only having to switch the northbridge on the motherboard.

Now intel isn't allowing Nvidia or AMD to make alternative northbridge chipsets for their i7/i5/i3 line of CPU's. Thus, Apple will be forced to either
1.) Use the (very sucky) integrated Intel graphics, causing consumers to complain that they are getting a "downgrade"
2.) Use a discrete video card which has the potential to hurt battery life and have added costs which would hurt Apple's profit margins - something we all know Apple doesn't like to do.

[PeterQVenkman]

Whatever it is, please, Apple, don't raise your ridiculous prices any more.

[danielwsmithee]

I still think the higher end MBP's with discrete graphics chips are going to get the quad-core Clarksfields. The Arrandale is going to be used on the lower end MBP and MBA that currently use integrated graphics chips.

[AidenShaw]

2.) Use a discrete video card which has the potential to hurt battery life....

Switchable graphics pretty much eliminates the battery issue - use the Intel iGFX when battery life is more important, use the discrete chip when performance is more important.

Of course, this needs to be "switch on the fly", rather than "reboot into the other graphics" - but that's clearly doable.

[modular]

would these new laptops preform better than my powermac 1.8 dual g5? I'm thinking of upgrading and getting a laptop.

[CubeHacker]

Switchable graphics pretty much eliminates the battery issue - use the Intel iGFX when battery life is more important, use the discrete chip when performance is more important.

Of course, this needs to be "switch on the fly", rather than "reboot into the other graphics" - but that's clearly doable.

That is true, but the Mac Mini, Macbook, and Macbook Air line never featured switchable graphics. And I doubt Apple would want to confuse users by having two different graphics cores with very different capabilities. Thus, if Apple were to use discrete graphics chips in these computers, it would have the potential to hurt battery life.

[Maserati7200]

Switchable graphics pretty much eliminates the battery issue - use the Intel iGFX when battery life is more important, use the discrete chip when performance is more important.

Of course, this needs to be "switch on the fly", rather than "reboot into the other graphics" - but that's clearly doable.
But you won't have the advantage of having decent gfx performance with good battery life at the same time like you did with the 9400M.

[flottenheimer]

i can see a notebook refresh being the opening act of the tablet unveiling on the 26th (if that is in fact when it happens).

I think it will happen in silence. Online.

[Eidorian]

would these new laptops preform better than my powermac 1.8 dual g5? I'm thinking of upgrading and getting a laptop.Any MacBook already does.

[flottenheimer]

I just want the damn Macbook Pro line to be updated so that I can get one. I don't need a new laptop, but my old G4 Powerbook is starting to die.

My 7yrs old daughter rocks my old 12" G4 PowerBook. She needs a new Mac, IMO. I'm sure you do as well.

[sampro]

I'm really hoping we don't have to wait any longer than January 26th for the new MBP's. I really want to get a macbook pro but I don't want to dive in right at the end of a cycle.



me too man! ive been waiting for 3-4 months now for an update i cant stand my 6 year old PC:( they better have MBP updates this jan or im just going to get one, i cant wait much longer then that. plus i think there will be a lot more then just a tablet, im thinking the updated MBP will be there intro to the conference..:D im just hoping that all of them get an update not just the 15" and 17" :apple:

[Adokimus]

Why aren't people complaining that the radio chip in the Iphone supports an FM tuner (which Apple is not using)? Is every Iphone user being penalized because a few transistors on a large scale integrated circuit aren't being utilized?

The Iphone would cost more, not less, if Apple insisted on a custom chip without the FM radio tuner. Same with Arrandale - a custom chip for Apple would cost much more.

You're missing the point Aiden. Intel is selling their processors packaged with their integrated graphics in order to push out competitors like NVIDIA, who make competing motherboards and integrated graphics. It's a monopolistic practice, something that Intel is known for. Intel has already paid out multi-million dollar settlements for similar actions, and yet this is how they continue to run their business. Please keep in mind that competitors are what keep companies innovating. By not allowing NVIDIA to compete, Intel is pushing them out of the market so that they can then raise their prices and lower their quality without fear of losing customers. That is just the long-term effect. In the short-term, you should note that NVIDIA graphics are currently far superior than Intel's offerings, so the consumer is hurt immediately. It does not matter that a company like Apple can use discrete graphics, because products like the MacBook or the Mac Mini rely solely on integrated graphics for things like cost and battery life, and the MacBook Pro currently offers dual-graphics so that you can use the integrated to improve battery life or discrete for improved performance. Intel is trying to force Apple and other companies to use only their inferior integrated graphics by building it all together and not offering a stand-alone chip. It's a monopoly practice designed to push out competitors. This is bad for the consumer. Instead of building a better product than NVIDIA and letting the consumer/Apple choose, they are simply forcing you to use their product. I hope you are able to see this.

[Z1NX]

These new Macbook Pro's better include USB 3.0

[leducviolet]

I'm going to wait 'til after the event on 1/26, even though my 15" MBP is dying. Sure, I need it for work, but I also need the latest & greatest or I'll be stuck second guessing myself into oblivion. Eegads, it's so hard to keep my hands off that sinful unibody! Do any gamblers want to lay odds on the 1/26 release date, or is that entirely futile with Apple? Is that turnaround too rapid to be realistic? I'll shut up now.

[Eidorian]

You're missing the point Aiden. Intel is selling their processors packaged with their integrated graphics in order to push out competitors like NVIDIA, who make competing motherboards and integrated graphics. It's a monopolistic practice, something that Intel is known for. Intel has already paid out multi-million dollar settlements for similar actions, and yet this is how they continue to run their business. Please keep in mind that competitors are what keep companies innovating. By not allowing NVIDIA to compete, Intel is pushing them out of the market so that they can then raise their prices and lower their quality without fear of losing customers. That is just the long-term effect. In the short-term, you should note that NVIDIA graphics are currently far superior than Intel's offerings, so the consumer is hurt immediately. It does not matter that a company like Apple can use discrete graphics, because products like the MacBook or the Mac Mini rely solely on integrated graphics for things like cost and battery life, and the MacBook Pro currently offers dual-graphics so that you can use the integrated to improve battery life or discrete for improved performance. Intel is trying to force Apple and other companies to use only their inferior integrated graphics by building it all together and not offering a stand-alone chip. It's a monopoly practice designed to push out competitors. This is bad for the consumer. Instead of building a better product than NVIDIA and letting the consumer/Apple choose, they are simply forcing you to use their product. I hope you are able to see this.No one seems to care about AMD...

[Adokimus]

No one seems to care about AMD...

I only mentioned NVIDIA because their integrated graphics solutions are being used in the current generation of Macs. See http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/technology/companies/13chip.html for one of the legal settlements I was referencing.

[Beric]

No one seems to care about AMD...

Both Intel and Nvidia dominate their respective markets, each having twice the market share of their competitor. Nvidia as of late seems to have been merely rebranding, rather than innovating. But few would question Intel's superior processor power.

Still waiting for a 13-incher with better graphics than the ION right now. And Arrandale would certainly be a nice touch.

[Eidorian]

I only mentioned NVIDIA because their integrated graphics solutions are being used in the current generation of Macs. See http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/technology/companies/13chip.html for one of the legal settlements I was referencing.Can you go on about nVidia's situation for the AMD platform?

Both Intel and Nvidia dominate their respective markets, each having twice the market share of their competitor. Nvidia as of late seems to have been merely rebranding, rather than innovating. But few would question Intel's superior processor power.

Still waiting for a 13-incher with better graphics than the ION right now. And Arrandale would certainly be a nice touch.nVidia has effectively been kicked out of the chipset market. The only remaining partner they really have left is VIA but I haven't seen anything beyond some ION2 slides. What really bothers me is that ION2 is just a GPU but reusing the name makes you think it's the IGP, northbridge, and I/O package again.

[mosx]

I don't see the point in Apple using these slightly faster processors in their systems if they're still sticking with such low-end graphics.

Look at the current MacBook "Pro" lineup.

The highest end stock 15.4" and 17" MacBook "Pro" (yes I use the quotations for a reason) ship with 2.8GHz Core 2 Duos. But they're paired with GeForce 9600M GTs. The low end 15.4" system has a 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo paired with a GeForce 9400M.

Whats the point of having reasonably fast processors when they're held back by suck low end graphics? Even when Apple finally switched to the 9600M GT in 2008, it was already several months old and low end by that point.

How will Apple price the new systems? Are they seriously going to try to push dual core Core i5 chips at the same $1100 and up price point that currently gets you Core i7, blu-ray, and high end GPUs in Windows notebook PCs?

I guess we'll see. They have been pushing faster and faster Core 2 Duos and low end GPUs while, during the early half of last year, PC notebooks went Core 2 Quad with GPUs that were several times faster than the 9600M GT, all while costing less..

[Beric]

I don't see the point in Apple using these slightly faster processors in their systems if they're still sticking with such low-end graphics.

Look at the current MacBook "Pro" lineup.

The highest end stock 15.4" and 17" MacBook "Pro" (yes I use the quotations for a reason) ship with 2.8GHz Core 2 Duos. But they're paired with GeForce 9600M GTs. The low end 15.4" system has a 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo paired with a GeForce 9400M.

Whats the point of having reasonably fast processors when they're held back by suck low end graphics? Even when Apple finally switched to the 9600M GT in 2008, it was already several months old and low end by that point.

How will Apple price the new systems? Are they seriously going to try to push dual core Core i5 chips at the same $1100 and up price point that currently gets you Core i7, blu-ray, and high end GPUs in Windows notebook PCs?

I guess we'll see. They have been pushing faster and faster Core 2 Duos and low end GPUs while, during the early half of last year, PC notebooks went Core 2 Quad with GPUs that were several times faster than the 9600M GT, all while costing less..

I assent completely. And as the GPU's in the MBP's are without doubt due for an upgrade, the refresh will tell us exactly what direction they are going in regard to GPU's. The high end better have some serious power, and not cost twice what it should for the specs. The 13" MBP better have ION 2 or dedicated graphics.

If the 13" MBP gets:
Solely Intel integrated: Apple is cheapening their laptops still further, and the "Pro" name needs to be stripped.
Same old 9400M: Apple lacks innovation and will continue to sell outdated technology for inflated prices, for as log as it can.
As of yet unreleased ION2: Apple got a special deal with Nvidia, and will continue to progress its technology, though still perhaps not as much as it might.
Dedicated Nvidia or ATI graphics: Apple is investing in current technology, and is concerned with providing the latest tech (Assuming it doesn't cost any more than right now).

[kakapo]

what are these "second rev of Arrandale silicon towards the middle of the year with better power characteristics"? the ultra-low voltage variants are due out this week. there's nothing on the wiki page of future intel microprocessors about an arrandale variant in Q2 2010.

[AidenShaw]

You're missing the point Aiden. Intel is selling their processors packaged with their integrated graphics in order to push out competitors like NVIDIA, who make competing motherboards and integrated graphics.

What I don't understand is the double-standard that so often comes up here at MR.

When Palm started selling the Pre with Itunes sync, there was outrage that Palm was "stealing" all of Apple's hard work on Itunes. Bad Palm. Bad.

But now, the MR folks expect Intel to give away all of their IP work on QPI to Nvidia. Huh?

And, by the way, don't confuse the Westmere issue with the older chips.

Nvidia was selling a Northbridge with integrated graphics (9400). Arrandale does not have a Northbridge. So, it's literally impossible for Nvidia to make a Northbridge for Arrandale - in spite of any licensing issues.

Nvidia could make a bang-up low power discrete chip - but not a Northbridge. (The Core i7-9xx have north and south bridges, so there a licensing deal is possible.)

[retroneo]

Core i3 Chips 330M & 350M Will go into the Air


Ummm. With 35W power consumption, the Core i3 is NOT going into the Air.

The Core i7 640UM is the replacement for the MacBook Air's processor with 18W consumption.

[Joe The Dragon]

But you won't have the advantage of having decent gfx performance with good battery life at the same time like you did with the 9400M.

The mini should have a good video chip as it does not have a battery in it and at $800 you are not far off a core i7 system with a good video card and much bigger HDD.

[Eidorian]

Nvidia could make a bang-up low power discrete chip - but not a Northbridge. (The Core i7-9xx have north and south bridges, so there a licensing deal is possible.)ION2 is still alive and kicking (http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/12/31/nvidia-ion2-g218-gpu-not-chipset/) to some extent. Though it is a shadow of its former self.

We'll still have to see if Charlie was right but a mobile optimized G218 (G 210 (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Inno3D/GeForce_210/)) feels like it will have less potential than the original 32 shader upgrade from 16 on the original ION. I was hoping for 8600M GS/GT like performance with the draw back of shared RAM.

[St.Jimmy!]

These new Macbook Pro's better include USB 3.0
Yeah I think that's the least we can expect...

what are these "second rev of Arrandale silicon towards the middle of the year with better power characteristics"? the ultra-low voltage variants are due out this week. there's nothing on the wiki page of future intel microprocessors about an arrandale variant in Q2 2010.
+1.

What should we expect? I mean, what does this really mean?

I've been waiting for a while now, so If this middle-of-the-year update is really going to make the difference I might as well keep waiting untill then.

We'll have to see how all this moves on. Any ideas?

[john123]

lol! "hold out"? A Mac should last around 5 years! Getting the new version each year would be quite a waste indeed!

Until very recently, I bought every new version. There's nothing wasteful about it. The market for used Macs is vibrant, and if you're not stupid about your purchases, it doesn't cost you any more to buy each revision than it would to let your purchase completely depreciate before purchasing anew. Meanwhile, you get to enjoy the latest and greatest hardware.

[zedsdead]

Yeah I think that's the least we can expect...


+1.

What should we expect? I mean, what does this really mean?

I've been waiting for a while now, so If this middle-of-the-year update is really going to make the difference I might as well keep waiting untill then.

We'll have to see how all this moves on. Any ideas?

From what I understand, the Intel chipsets will not include USB 3.0 support until around 2011. It is not coming yet.

[diamond.g]

what are these "second rev of Arrandale silicon towards the middle of the year with better power characteristics"? the ultra-low voltage variants are due out this week. there's nothing on the wiki page of future intel microprocessors about an arrandale variant in Q2 2010.

It is just another rev of the CPU. It appears in the article that Intel is having problems with the idle power level. So much so that it isn't any better than the 45nm parts. Rev updates tend to be silent (to the average user). Tech sites usually keep up with that kind of thing. Of course this is only the case if the clock speeds aren't increased at the same time.

[St.Jimmy!]

From what I understand, the Intel chipsets will not include USB 3.0 support until around 2011. It is not coming yet.

**** i'd missed that. I just checked it out. You're damn right. That's so ****ing annoying.

I've been waiting for a while now, so I'll see what apple comes up with and then I'll se what I do.

[beniamino]

The whole tablet thing is probably going to be a bit of a yawn. I just want the damn Macbook Pro line to be updated so that I can get one. I don't need a new laptop, but my old G4 Powerbook is starting to die.

This is exactly my situation.
My warriorlike pbook G4 is at dead end.
I used it as much as I could during the last 5\6 years but now it's done.

[polaris20]

I don't see the point in Apple using these slightly faster processors in their systems if they're still sticking with such low-end graphics.

Look at the current MacBook "Pro" lineup.

The highest end stock 15.4" and 17" MacBook "Pro" (yes I use the quotations for a reason) ship with 2.8GHz Core 2 Duos. But they're paired with GeForce 9600M GTs. The low end 15.4" system has a 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo paired with a GeForce 9400M.

Whats the point of having reasonably fast processors when they're held back by suck low end graphics? Even when Apple finally switched to the 9600M GT in 2008, it was already several months old and low end by that point.

How will Apple price the new systems? Are they seriously going to try to push dual core Core i5 chips at the same $1100 and up price point that currently gets you Core i7, blu-ray, and high end GPUs in Windows notebook PCs?

I guess we'll see. They have been pushing faster and faster Core 2 Duos and low end GPUs while, during the early half of last year, PC notebooks went Core 2 Quad with GPUs that were several times faster than the 9600M GT, all while costing less..

While I agree that the graphics options in Apple laptops are indeed weak, there are many uses for fast processors outside of their pairing with higher end graphics cards. Not all CPU/RAM intensive apps care about what GPU the computer has, such as virtualization and audio apps.

However if Apple keeps pushing the OpenCL stuff, they'll need to do something more about the GPU's. I'd love to be able to have a GT260 or better and not use it for graphics, but rather offload processor intensive Audio Unit plug-ins from Logic onto it. This technology has existed for years (offloading to GPU for plugins), but it hasn't really latched on as much as I would have liked to have seen it.

[Maserati7200]

The mini should have a good video chip as it does not have a battery in it and at $800 you are not far off a core i7 system with a good video card and much bigger HDD.
What about the MacBook, MacBook Air, 13" MBP? Are we going to have to use the crappy IGP? I had a MacBook with the GMA950 up until very recently, it was powerful enough all around except in one area: graphics. The X3100 isn't much of an improvement. And even with the 15" & and 17" MBPs, The 9400M gives the option of having decent graphics performance but the longer battery life (which is important in laptops), and if you need the extra horse power without concern for the power consumption (ie if you're plugged in) you can switch to the 9600M GT. Now it's going to be complete crap graphics with good battery life. My old MacBook with the GMA 950 hyper ventilated (fans spun up to 6200 RPM) when watching relatively low/moderate bit rate 720P video. My new 13" MBP with the 9400M doesn't rev up a bit with 1080i, and doesn't lag when editing in iMovie or iPhoto or Garageband. Plus keep in mind, they both have 2Gb of RAM, albeit the FSB and RAM on the 13" MBP is faster.

[AidenShaw]

My old MacBook with the GMA 950 hyper ventilated (fans spun up to 6200 RPM) when watching relatively low/moderate bit rate 720P video.

But Apple wasn't using the GPU accelerated video decode on that model, so the fans were cooling the CPU, right?

[Eidorian]

But Apple wasn't using the GPU accelerated video decode on that model, so the fans were cooling the CPU, right?The same thing would happen today given the lack of GPU accelerated playback support under OS X.

[Baadshah]

I an getting very good Price for my unibody MacBook late 08, are guys sure that new updated MacBook pros Will come out ón 27 th Jan. And will they be released the same day???. I am a bit confused.

[Z1NX]

I an getting very good Price for my unibody MacBook late 08, are guys sure that new updated MacBook pros Will come out ón 27 th Jan. And will they be released the same day???. I am a bit confused.

Lmao. No mate - on the 27th, Intel/Apple will announce their new processors at CES. We won't see the new MBP's until at least February/March

[Baadshah]

Lmao. No mate - on the 27th, Intel/Apple will announce their new processors at CES. We won't see the new MBP's until at least February/March

Arent new updated macbook pro coming up on 27th jan with new intel processor and more ram/hdd etc???

[User10]

I know there are new CPUs coming out and the new MBP is probably just around the corner but I can pick up the 2.53GHz 13" model for $1350 but only half of that is out of my own pocket. Should I still wait? I kinda need a notebook at the moment...

For someone who mainly want to use the MBP for essays, web, and maybe minor creativity purposes (photoshop maybe? no games though)... should I really care how much better the new i5/i7 will be?

I'm a college student and since most of my classes require work to be submitted online or done on the comp and I'm on campus most of the time, I think it'd be nice to finally pick up a laptop...

Thoughts, anyone?

[AidenShaw]

Should I still wait? I kinda need a notebook at the moment...

Don't wait - if you need a laptop buy it. Especially since the current MacBook will be just as useful for you as the next version.

Nobody can predict when Apple will be shipping new notebooks - sometimes several weeks or months pass between Intel announcing a new CPU and Apple shipping systems that use it. (This can be partly Intel's fault, since at the official announcement only a trickle of new chips are shipping. Apple waits until they can ship in volume to announce.)

[Eidorian]

Don't wait - if you need a laptop buy it. Especially since the current MacBook will be just as useful for you as the next version.

Nobody can predict when Apple will be shipping new notebooks - sometimes several weeks or months pass between Intel announcing a new CPU and Apple shipping systems that use it. (This can be partly Intel's fault, since at the official announcement only a trickle of new chips are shipping. Apple waits until they can ship in volume to announce.)The selection of notebooks in Apple's refurbished store is back as well. I'd get a new Unibody plastic MacBook if I was in real need of a replacement notebook. At $849 it's a steal. :D

[offwidafairies]

So.. February/March for new MBP? Any other takers? I would be very happy with late Jan :)

[alent1234]

Dell, HP and others already came out with new Arrandale models at very nice prices and specs that blow MBP's out of the water

[TonyStyles84]

Hope the new CPUs will not cost as mouch as a new iPhonehttp://www.freesmileys4u.info/pics/Q/e.gif

[ReineW]

So.. February/March for new MBP? Any other takers? I would be very happy with late Jan :)

Any news, i'm waiting to by my first MBP...

[Rocketman]

Get what you can get now. The processor bump will be minimal at best. I suspect Apple is preparing a "major" update for later this year in the August-October time frame to include touch features on all laptops so they are directly compatible with the entire app store ecosystem.

The reason this is likely is the iBookstore will have content best viewed in a touch format as well. So whether you have a desktop, tabletop, laptop, handtop or pad, everything will run everywhere.

Rocketman

[jouster]

Why aren't people complaining that the radio chip in the Iphone supports an FM tuner (which Apple is not using)? Is every Iphone user being penalized because a few transistors on a large scale integrated circuit aren't being utilized?

The Iphone would cost more, not less, if Apple insisted on a custom chip without the FM radio tuner. Same with Arrandale - a custom chip for Apple would cost much more.

Yes. Sometimes things are counter intuitive: adding stuff to save money. But that's how it works.

[anthonybsd]

I suspect Apple is preparing a "major" update for later this year in the August-October time frame to include touch features on all laptops so they are directly compatible with the entire app store ecosystem.
Are you suggesting that new Macbooks will run IPhone apps? This sounds unlikely.

[lilo777]

Are you suggesting that new Macbooks will run IPhone apps? This sounds unlikely.

Not only will they run iPhone apps, looking at other developments, they night as well run iPhone OS :D