Taiwan targeted because of Iraq

[pseudobrit]

Yu said Beijing began to simulate an attack targeting Taiwan leaders after the capture of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.

"After the Iraq war, China has targeted Taiwan leaders, Taiwan's capital, and the presidential office in its so-called decapitation action," Yu said aboard a plane to Central America after a stopover in Los Angeles, where he met some U.S. congressmen.

We've become a monster. And created another.

link (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&e=3&u=/nm/20040815/wl_nm/taiwan_china_dc)

[Leo Hubbard]

They aren't doing it because of Iraq, they were simply waiting for an excuss to do it. Any excuss would've done the trick. This is one of the reasons why we needed a war instead of an assasination. Didn't want assasinations to be considered passe.

[themadchemist]

They aren't doing it because of Iraq, they were simply waiting for an excuss to do it. Any excuss would've done the trick.

Sure, but why did we have to play a hand in giving them the excuse?

[IJ Reilly]

We didn't give them an excuss, um, I mean excuse. We just gave them a rationale.

[mactastic]

So while you are quite sure China was just 'looking for an excuse', I'm pretty sure you wouldn't buy the same argument about the US just looking for an excuse to attack Iraq. Oh no, we had justifications (hint: China says it has justifications to attack Taiwan.) If they feel threatened in any way, do they not have the right to pre-emptively attack in order to defend themselves?

[pseudobrit]

So while you are quite sure China was just 'looking for an excuse', I'm pretty sure you wouldn't buy the same argument about the US just looking for an excuse to attack Iraq. Oh no, we had justifications (hint: China says it has justifications to attack Taiwan.) If they feel threatened in any way, do they not have the right to pre-emptively attack in order to defend themselves?

What a can of worms we've opened! Imagine the next country we start to threaten: will they have the "right" to assasinate or attack us?

It's a sad day in global relations when a mere "perceived threat" is reason enough for invasion. Time was you actually had to do something to the US for us to declare war against you.

[Leo Hubbard]

What a can of worms we've opened! Imagine the next country we start to threaten: will they have the "right" to assasinate or attack us?

It's a sad day in global relations when a mere "perceived threat" is reason enough for invasion. Time was you actually had to do something to the US for us to declare war against you.
The idea is for other countries to know we aren't full of hot air when we say something. That we will follow through on what we say. We are the most powerful country in the world, and people better start respecting that.

[skunk]

The idea is for other countries to know we aren't full of hot air when we say something. That we will follow through on what we say. We are the most powerful country in the world, and people better start respecting that.
If that's the only reason for respect, you won't get it. I think we've all moved on from there. It's moral authority, not military might, that counts. You achieve that by abiding by International Law, working with the UN - however difficult or tedious that may be - respecting others' rights to determine their own destinies, and upholding civil rights everywhere - however inconvenient THAT may seem.

[mouchoir]

The idea is for other countries to know we aren't full of hot air when we say something. That we will follow through on what we say. We are the most powerful country in the world, and people better start respecting that.

Sadly, even the most powerful country in the world can be turned on its head by the hijacking of 3 passenger planes.

Hate breeds hate.

[skunk]

The idea is for other countries to know we aren't full of hot air when we say something. That we will follow through on what we say. We are the most powerful country in the world, and people better start respecting that.
You may try to follow through, but for all your vaunted "power", you may well fail. Like Mouchoir says, it only took three passenger aircraft to send you all into a state of near panic, acquiesce in an illegal invasion, and lose almost all international support.

[Don't panic]

We are the most powerful country in the world, and people better start respecting that.

maybe some governments fear the US, but respect?
Wake up Leo, not even our best allies respect us anymore.
And why should they?
Lies, arrogance and bullying is all we had to offer for a while.

You can instill fear, but you must earn respect.

[Leo Hubbard]

maybe some governments fear the US, but respect?
Wake up Leo, not even our best allies respect us anymore.
And why should they?
Lies, arrogance and bullying is all we had to offer for a while.

You can instill fear, but you must earn respect.
There have been no lies.
What good is a treaty if it is not enforced through the use of force?
What good is saying something, if you don't follow through should someone, like Saddam, thumb his nose at you.
What good is passing all those so called referendums and whatnot in the UN if they don't enforce them, then they are simply full of hot air.

Iran right now is thumbing their noses at us. Daring us to do something. If we were more stallwart in our beliefs they wouldn't dare. They would assume we would do something, and therefore not take the chance of pissing us off. Now because some thinks we don't really mean what we say we might have to go to war with Iran, where before only the threat of war would have been enough.

[Don't panic]

There have been no lies.

:D :D :D

-

your sticking to the party line in face of the elements is admirable, but just once in a while you might want to take off those blinders and take a look at the real world around you.

[pseudobrit]

The idea is that China is an up-and-coming superpower, and other countries need to know they're serious about their territorial claims, that they will follow through on what they say. They want to be the most powerful country in the world, and people better start respecting that.

[LethalWolfe]

The idea is that China is an up-and-coming superpower, and other countries need to know they're serious about their territorial claims, that they will follow through on what they say. They want to be the most powerful country in the world, and people better start respecting that.

I think all we need is a space alien to beam in, tell the representitives of the major world powers that they endourse the US, and then beam back out. That should take care of everything.

Hey, it work on Stargate SG-1.


Lethal

[pseudobrit]

I think all we need is a space alien to beam in, tell the representitives of the major world powers that they endourse the US, and then beam back out. That should take care of everything.

Hey, it work on Stargate SG-1.


Lethal

Are you saying Leo subscribes to the science fiction school of international diplomacy? That would explain it.

[skunk]

Of course, now that "decapitation" is an acceptable tactic, Junior had better start wearing a Kevlar smirk from now on. Someone might use his own methods on him. It's open season on world leaders. Yippee!

[takao]

We are the most powerful country in the world, and people better start respecting that.

make that "most powerfull country _at the moment_"

respect ? ...yeah right ... you don't have enough arms to compensate for all the double-standards and moral deficits of your politics
respect has to be earned

[Desertrat]

Folks are sure selling the Celestial Kingdom short if they think there's any correlation between our actions w/r/t capturing Hussein and the Chinese taking out the heads of the Taiwanese Government. It's pretty obvious that cutting off the head of a snake is better than a standup (laydown?) fight, slugging it out against an entrenched foe.

The Chinese have little sealift capability, but quite a bit of airlift. Between air and rocketry, plus a rapid first-strike of both paratroops and airlift, they could paralyze any Taiwanese response by getting behind the coastal defenses.

Odds are, the mainland folks see the US as being too involved in the mideast to bring any significant force to bear in the area around Taiwan. Me, I'm not sure how much of a deterrent our Navy would be.

Nor have I a clue how much of a deterrent a loss of trade with the US would be, were that to be considered as part of the equation. China is building up its own consumer economy, and increasing its exports to Japan and the more southern parts of Asia as well as into Europe.

Some estimates have spoken of sometime in 2006, if not 2005...If the US--and the world--is presented with a fait accompli, I'd venture that little or nothing would be done beyond recognizing the inevitable.

'Rat

[IJ Reilly]

If the PRC did invade Taiwan, I suspect the least of their concerns would be the military reaction of the United States, which would be token at best. The real deterrent is putting at risk all of that export trade they rely upon for their phenomenal economic growth, and the calamity in the Asian markets which would certainly ensue. Containing the economic panic to Asia would be difficult.

[skunk]

Those new iMacs might take a bit longer to arrive...

[busasa]

To continue IJ Reilly's point, it is interesting to point out that Singapore's newly appointed prime minister Lee xianlong, the son of Lee kuanyuew, stressed that peace is a must for the development of the region. Taiwan is not some third world country that does not take part of the world's globalized economy. It is the ninth ranked exporter I believe, and it especially handles a significant portion of the high-tech industry. Even if some form of warfare appears, with Shanghai being only 1 hr of flight away from Taiwan's missle base, I fear damages in China may occur as well. It is a loose loose situation that only serves interests for the diehard nationalists. While I agree China is fast becoming the world's next super power, it still has many internal problems to solve. I think more peaceful ways of negotiation should be the preferred method, even though I do acknowledge that this attack might be a kind of strategy for gaining better ground if they do sit down and negotiate.

[gekko513]

The idea is for other countries to know we aren't full of hot air when we say something. That we will follow through on what we say. We are the most powerful country in the world, and people better start respecting that.
:confused: :mad: That's just so wrong! If you think the U.S will remain the most powerful country in the world for very long if that attitude is voiced publicly over time and with a foreign policy to match, you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

[Bobcat37]

:confused: :mad: That's just so wrong! If you think the U.S will remain the most powerful country in the world for very long if that attitude is voiced publicly over time and with a foreign policy to match, you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

Yeah dude, you totally know Norway is gonna bomb the $#!% out of us, take over our country, and be the new world's super power.

ph33r teh norwegians!

[blackfox]

Yeah dude, you totally know Norway is gonna bomb the $#!% out of us, take over our country, and be the new world's super power.

ph33r teh norwegians!
What has that got to do with anything, Bobcat? Nothing of the sort was being implied and you know it...

You seem to imply that we as Americans are somehow superior as individuals and as a society because we happen to be the most powerful Nation right now (although that is declining)...which is of course the whole problem...because it is obviously wrong.

To take something as American as a blockbuster movie (in this case Spiderman) "with great power comes great responsibility"...the US has the power thing down, but are crap at the responsibility part...hardly superior, I would say.

I have never been to Norway, but I lived in Upsala, Sweden (next door, so to speak) and the Swedes at least have their sh** together...I would imagine Norway does too...after all, most people just want to lead their lives, not take over the world...

[Bobcat37]

Holy cow man, you ever heard of a joke?

Mr gekko is from Norway, I was just messin around.

I'm glad you were able to deduce a page worth of implications out of my joke however. Give your brain a rest next time instead of trying to figure out what I am seeming to imply... ;)

[blackfox]

was not quite as serious as you inferred bobcat...i just am boycotting smileys...so it is left up to the individual to attach meaning...

cheers

[carbonmotion]

As a chinese american studying to be a International Trade Lawyer, I can safely say that from my understanding of Taiwan - China conflict, those words are just rhetoric and will not very likely be put in to action. Sorry boys, but those statements have been made and remade for the last 50 years, they're nothing new.

[Bobcat37]

Heh, yeah I didn't use any smilies in my original post either. I put one in at first, but then I took it out for more "effect"... lol

No worries man :)

[gekko513]

Yeah dude, you totally know Norway is gonna bomb the $#!% out of us, take over our country, and be the new world's super power.

ph33r teh norwegians!
Yeeaah! You should be terrified! I think we have a couple of F16 and F5 fighters. Not to mention our impressive navy which is stuck on land (I have no idea what the English expression for this is) for the rest of 2004 because of budget cuts.

[blackfox]

gekko, I believe the expression is "dry-docked"...(FWIW)...

[Bobcat37]

LOL

See gekko got the joke... bravo :D

Anyway... uh... back on topic! *evil eye admin stare* :mad:

[IJ Reilly]

gekko, I believe the expression is "dry-docked"...(FWIW)...

Moth-balled?

[zimv20]

land-locked?

[gekko513]

I think land-locked is correct.

[takao]

I think land-locked is correct.

and even land-locked it would beat the austrian navy which has a little problem to reach the sea without passing trough a bunch of other countries...i wonder if our single second-hand hercules we have could lift those swift boats around....

[skunk]

I think land-locked is correct.
No. Confined to base is probably what you mean. Land-locked is what Austria is, not Norway.