Apple Reportedly Looking to Purchase LED Camera Flash Components

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/08/apple-reportedly-looking-to-purchase-led-camera-flash-components/)

AppleInsider reports (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/01/08/source_apple_shopping_for_led_camera_flash_components.html) on information from a source claiming that Apple is looking to acquire significant quantities of LED camera flash components, sparking speculation that the company is planning to add flash capabilities to its camera on the iPhone, and possibly the iPod touch should it also gain a camera.People familiar with Apple's initiative claim the electronics maker is seeking allotments of LED camera flash components in the tens of millions for delivery during the 2010 calendar year, meaning future iPhones -- and possibly the iPod touch -- are the most likely recipients of those parts, due to their sales volume. Those same people say that Philips' Lumileds Lighting sector is believed to be the front-runner for Apple's business and may have already secured the design win.Despite the generally-decent image quality of Apple's existing 3.2-megapixel camera in the iPhone 3GS, increasing numbers of smartphones, including the Motorola Droid and Google Nexus One, have been moving to 5-megapixel camera sensors with LED flash to assist in low-light situations.

Apple has reportedly secured orders (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/12/23/next-generation-iphone-set-to-carry-5-megapixel-camera/) with current camera sensor supplier OmniVision Technologies for large quantities of 5-megapixel camera sensors, likely destined for the next-generation iPhone. Apple had been planning (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/11/apple-still-planning-camera-in-ipod-touch/) to add a camera to the iPod touch when it was revised last September, but apparently scrapped the change relatively late in the design process, possibly due to challenges presented by the device's thin profile. Many still expect Apple to add a camera to the iPod touch in the future, although it is unknown how the company will deal with the design challenges.

Article Link: Apple Reportedly Looking to Purchase LED Camera Flash Components (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/08/apple-reportedly-looking-to-purchase-led-camera-flash-components/)

[pmz]

Can someone show me clear proof that 5 megapix + LED flash makes a significantly better photograph than 3.2 on the iPhone 3GS?

[Trexznl]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A341 Safari/528.16)

Ik really looking forward to the new iPhone! Gimme 5mpx cam with flash and i'm sold!

[iGod 2.0]

This year looks like it's gonna be a revolutionary one! What do
you guys think?!

[lender30]

Apple should push the improvement further instead of 'catching up'.

[martint84]

The next gen iPhone is looking better and better each day. Excited to upgrade my 3G this summer.

[pmz]

Apple should push the improvement further instead of 'catching up'.

This. I hope the iPhone does not get an LED flash, they are so ridiculous.

[dwman]

Can someone show me clear proof that 5 megapix + LED flash makes a significantly better photograph than 3.2 on the iPhone 3GS?

I'm not a photographer, so don't know if there is a significant difference (I suspect there isn't), but this reminds of the megapixel wars that raged on between camera makers the last few years. A tiny lens with 5, 8 or 10 mp isn't going to produce a quality pic....then again it's a cell phone, so maybe that's not the idea.

[zacman]

LED sucks. Better use a Xenon flash.

[KindredMAC]

Can someone show me clear proof that 5 megapix + LED flash makes a significantly better photograph than 3.2 on the iPhone 3GS?

Seriously? wow....

Back to reality: I'm really excited by this news! We are using our iPhones more and more for snap shots and this would definitely put the nail in the coffin of our Fuji 5MP that is about 5 years old.

[pmz]

Seriously? wow....

Back to reality: I'm really excited by this news! We are using our iPhones more and more for snap shots and this would definitely put the nail in the coffin of our Fuji 5MP that is about 5 years old.

Yes seriously. You have both pieces of equipment? Go take shots and prove it.

You're talking to an actual photographer here so watch the B.S. when you respond.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Seriously? wow....

Back to reality: I'm really excited by this news! We are using our iPhones more and more for snap shots and this would definitely put the nail in the coffin of our Fuji 5MP that is about 5 years old.
flash on a camera phone is rubbish.

But chalk KindredMAC up as one for the megapixel myth.

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

LED sucks. Better use a Xenon flash.

What he said.

[ipoppy]

Didn't expect that move from Apple. Unless they will have some super duper battery in next iphone :D

[flopticalcube]

I'd rather have a bigger sensor and lens. LED flashes are good for what? 6ft?

[Popeye206]

I think we all need to remember... it's a phone... it's an iPod... not a camera. Sure better is great, but I would never expect great quality from any phone. If I wanted that, make my camera into a cell phone! LOL!

I think this is going to be a very interesting year for Apple fans. Competition is heating up and Apple will respond with some great upgrades and new products I'm sure!

[ChazUK]

LED sucks. Better use a Xenon flash.

Another vote for what this man says.

Come on Apple, use your excellent engineers to fuse xennon flash into the iPhone. That WOULD impress me.

[The Phazer]

Can someone show me clear proof that 5 megapix + LED flash makes a significantly better photograph than 3.2 on the iPhone 3GS?

Try taking a picture of someone in a dark nightclub with your 3GS.

With a flash, there'll actually be a picture.

Phazer

[Robert M.]

I'm I the only one that doesn't really care about the camera? I mean, it's great that it's getting a better one! But I hardly ever take pics with my 3GS... Maybe that's just me. :confused:

Anyway, it's great that Apple are giving us better camera's and flash! My friend will love the flash! He's been moaning about "no flash" since the first one lol! Now he can shut up!! :p

[jglavin]

AI ran their article with this image - not sure how credible it is. Luxeon is a household name in LED tech though

http://images.appleinsider.com/flash-compare-100108.gif

[emulator]

Another vote for what this man says.

Come on Apple, use your excellent engineers to fuse xennon flash into the iPhone. That WOULD impress me.
sure, next year. But 1st sell with LED as the next best thing. You gotta milk the cow every year somehow.

[nagromme]

Can someone show me clear proof that 5 megapix + LED flash makes a significantly better photograph than 3.2 on the iPhone 3GS?

Megapixels are often pure marketing gimmickry like the old MHz wars. IN fact, without great optics to back up those megapixels, a higher-MP sensor can actually make a WORSE picture because it’s more sensitive to noise: even with the 5MP image is scaled down. (Many examples (http://6mpixel.org/en/?page_id=32) are online—the difference is often striking.) I’m skeptical that cell phone is going to have optics to beat many 5MP full-size cameras. In which case, not only are you getting worse pictures, but your pictures are burning up extra storage space for all time!

That said, IF the optics in a cell phone can be good enough to not have 5MP noise problems, then I’d gladly have that feature, for the sake of cropping in if nothing else. Let’s hope Apple cares about noise more than me-too bullet points, and gives good-quality 5MP or none at all. Until we know what they release, all we can do is look at the noise problems with other 5MP+ cameras.

As for flash... well, taking a close-up in a dark room is a no brainer :) I wouldn’t use it much (and I don’t on my “real” camera either) but I WOULD like to have the option, it it didn’t contribute to a bulkier iPhone.

[jglavin]

One advantage of LED flash over xenon is that it can be used as a flashlight.

[zed2]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)

If it's just more memory and flash then count me out. My 3GS is just fine

[LastName]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/08/apple-reportedly-looking-to-purchase-led-camera-flash-components/)


I thought Apple said they'd never allow Flash on an iPhone. :D

[TimTheEnchanter]

I'm still surprised no one has designed a dock-port attached flash/battery (possible case) combo with a camera app for existing iPhones.

[Icaras]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/08/apple-reportedly-looking-to-purchase-led-camera-flash-components/)


I thought Apple said they'd never allow Flash on an iPhone. :D

ha...ha....:D

[SAIRUS]

Regardless I'm happy. My own Dad likes to rub in my face that his Blackberry can take better pictures at night. When in the club, this is a huge boon.

Now just ratchet up the specs as usual and add HD output support.
Looks like I'm upgrading.:)

[D 5]

The Apple () logo would be nice for flash

[Michael73]

Just remember (and I can't take credit for the following statement) that the best camera is the one in your hand at any given moment. Is my iPhone ever going to be as good as a DSLR, NO! That said, I would bet that 99.99% of people who own and iPhone and a DSLR carry their iPhone with them more often than their DSLR which makes capturing any imagery with the phone just as important. So, go ahead and add a flash, add an optical zoom (please!) and a better sensor because whatever you add is likely to be the best image capture device I'm currently carrying at any give moment. :)

[casik]

I'm still surprised no one has designed a dock-port attached flash/battery (possible case) combo with a camera app for existing iPhones.

Just Googled it... there are cases out there with a flash.

[VenusianSky]

Fixed flashes on any camera don't produce the best photographs. However, it does allow you to photograph in low light and produce a viewable image when you do not have the ability to adjust shutter speeds. A flash on a phone sounds reasonable to me. In addition, many other camera phones have a flash builtin. I don't see the flash having any negative affect on the camera quality. As for megapixel, yes we know that a higher pixel count does not necessarily mean it will produce a better quality image. In this case, it is almost certain that the sensor is no better than what is in the 3GS. What we do know is that many other phones have 5 MP cameras and companies have to stay competitive. 5MP will in fact produce a larger image than 3MP, so there is actually a difference. You can also figure that the cost of a 5MP camera with a flash is probably not much, if any, different than what the 3MP camera cost on the 3GS at the time they began to manufacture. I think some people try to read too far into why Apple will put a 5MP/flash in the next iPhone (if they do so). I personally think it is simply because other companies are doing the same.

[talkingfuture]

Wonder what the case will look like with the flash integrated, I'm sure they'll find a really neat way of doing it.

[Yello Scorpion]

Its a phone, damn it, not a camera!
Bring us multi tasking and better battery life!

[XxEjGxX]

a better camera doesnt really wow me hspda is a different ball game http://imagehoster911.co.cc/imgs/signature_BasicSmile.jpg

[str1f3]

Its a phone, damn it, not a camera!
Bring us multi tasking and better battery life!

Can't they do all three at the same time?

[angemon89]

FINALLY. Took them long enough.

Hope this is true.

[Illusion986]

Its a phone, damn it, not a camera!
Bring us multi tasking and better battery life!

Sure...So was my old nokia with calculator screen, i assume you some years ago you were complaining when phones with color screens started coming out.

[martint84]

I think some people try to read too far into why Apple will put a 5MP/flash in the next iPhone (if they do so). I personally think it is simply because other companies are doing the same.

I agree. Anyone on this forum is not the average cell phone consumer. Your average consumer goes to the verizon/at&t/radio shack and asks about the different phones available. The employee says, "they can all run apps and surf the web. This one is the top of the line android/blackberry/iPhone. This one, however, has a 5MP camera with a flash. The top of the line iPhone has a 3MP camera." The average consumer than thinks, what's all the hype about the iPhone? This guy just told me that the Android/Blackberry/HTC is the best.

[tommy8884]

About time. I had a flash in my nokia about 7 years ago

[rtdunham]

You have both pieces of equipment? Go take shots and prove it.

The original iPhone camera was 2MP, which was upgraded to the current 3.2MP. That created a large pool of people who had used "both pieces of equipment" as you challenged. They took shots, as you also proposed. My recollection is the consensus was that the new phone's camera produced better pix. That was my personal experience, too.

A 5MP might or might not continue that progression, but i think it likely.

I'd like to know the sizes of the 2MP and 3.2MP and rumored 5MP sensors. Anybody know? That'd put a more fact-based spin on this thread.

You're talking to an actual photographer here so watch the B.S. when you respond.

I'm sure you have a lot of experience and a lot to contribute here. But trust me, there are other "actual photographers" here too.

[tommy8884]

Wonder what the case will look like with the flash integrated, I'm sure they'll find a really neat way of doing it.

I hope they make the apple logo the flash

[ChazUK]

Its a phone, damn it, not a camera!
Bring us multi tasking and better battery life!

Its a phone, damn it, not a computer!
Why do you want multi tasking!

(More battery life is always good tho.) ;)

[Drpepper99uk]

Can someone show me clear proof that 5 megapix + LED flash makes a significantly better photograph than 3.2 on the iPhone 3GS?

As a photographer I would say that a better lens would make a better photograph rather than pumping up the megapixels on the camera unit, flash's on most compacts and camera phones are poor at the best of times due to their location(usually right next to the camera's lens) and at eye level with your subject which creates guaranteed red eye everytime!!

Mike.

[mr.steevo]

My own Dad likes to rub in my face that his Blackberry can take better pictures at night. When in the club, this is a huge boon.


Personally, I wouldn't want to have a photo of my own Dad in the club with me.

s.

[rwilliams]

Can someone show me clear proof that 5 megapix + LED flash makes a significantly better photograph than 3.2 on the iPhone 3GS?

If you like mediocre pictures in horrible artificial light, this is the camera for you. :p

[metrobot]

Megapixels are often pure marketing gimmickry like the old MHz wars. IN fact, without great optics to back up those megapixels, a higher-MP sensor can actually make a WORSE picture because it’s more sensitive to noise: even with the 5MP image is scaled down. (Many examples (http://6mpixel.org/en/?page_id=32) are online—the difference is often striking.) I’m skeptical that cell phone is going to have optics to beat many 5MP full-size cameras. In which case, not only are you getting worse pictures, but your pictures are burning up extra storage space for all time!

That said, IF the optics in a cell phone can be good enough to not have 5MP noise problems, then I’d gladly have that feature, for the sake of cropping in if nothing else. Let’s hope Apple cares about noise more than me-too bullet points, and gives good-quality 5MP or none at all. Until we know what they release, all we can do is look at the noise problems with other 5MP+ cameras.

As for flash... well, taking a close-up in a dark room is a no brainer :) I wouldn’t use it much (and I don’t on my “real” camera either) but I WOULD like to have the option, it it didn’t contribute to a bulkier iPhone.

yes but your link, which is very interesting btw, says the sweet spot is 6 megapixels. So an increase is in order for the iphone camera.

[rwilliams]

Can't they do all three at the same time?

Thus far, no. :D And I have a feeling we still won't see all 3 with the 4.0 update.

[rwilliams]

I hope they make the apple logo the flash

While I'm not a big fan of a flash on a camera phone, this idea would be the absolute coolest way to integrate a flash.

[extraextra]

The Apple () logo would be nice for flash

Haha kind of cheesy but I'd be down for it. I don't think it'd work though because when you hold the phone to take a pic your finger usually covers the apple.

I've been out for awhile, I hope the new iPhone will have more than a better camera... I'm coming from a 3G and hoping to upgrade this summer.

[VenusianSky]

As a photographer I would say that a better lens would make a better photograph rather than pumping up the megapixels on the camera unit, flash's on most compacts and camera phones are poor at the best of times due to their location(usually right next to the camera's lens) and at eye level with your subject which creates guaranteed red eye everytime!!

Mike.

That would be great and all, but the question is does any company actually manufacture a better sensor (I assume you meant sensor rather than lens) that can operate properly in something as small as a phone? If so, why don't we see them in any camera phones today?

Yes, a fixed direction flash will not produce anything remotely close to a professional photograph. They do allow you to take up-close photographs in low light that will produce a viewable image. Many people are fine with those limitations. Many people don't even consider such details when taking photos. Many people simply take photos for the sake of the memories.

As technology progresses, we will see better cameras in phones.

[Bevz]

The next gen iPhone is looking better and better each day. Excited to upgrade my 3G this summer.

Me too! :)

[sishaw]

Another vote for what this man says.

Come on Apple, use your excellent engineers to fuse xennon flash into the iPhone. That WOULD impress me.

Wouldn't that be awfully hard on the battery?

[ChazUK]

Wouldn't that be awfully hard on the battery?

It may but it doesn't hurt these guys (http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/mobilephones/0,39050603,62047512,00.htm)

[sishaw]

It may but it doesn't hurt these guys (http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/mobilephones/0,39050603,62047512,00.htm)

Thanks for the link--everyone wondering about LCD vs. Xenon should take a look. I suspect that Xenon phones all have batteries that you can just pop out and pop in a fresh one. Just a guess, though, I don't know all those models. Also, interesting point about still vs. video.

[zachman76]

Hey guys i just bought an iphone two days ago and i must say at&t sucks. dropped calls left and right and i can't seem to get on the internet other than wifi since i dropped the phone one time. didn't even leave a scuff mark.

Anyway i'm still under the 30 risk free trial and my other phone line is still activated. should i take it back and wait for the new iphone to come out and possibly with Verizon. I like the phone but i'm a litle underwhelmed to be honest.

1. No zoom
2. can't even erase a single recieved call with deleting all of them
3. the camera button is very odly placed which makes it very hard to hold with one hand and and take pics. especially of yourself
4. no multitasking
5. was surprised at the lack of options in setting to custimize.

should i take this back and wait for the 4g with hopes all this will be cured.

[Simplicated]

Hey guys i just bought an iphone two days ago and i must say at&t sucks. dropped calls left and right and i can't seem to get on the internet other than wifi since i dropped the phone one time. didn't even leave a scuff mark.

Anyway i'm still under the 30 risk free trial and my other phone line is still activated. should i take it back and wait for the new iphone to come out and possibly with Verizon. I like the phone but i'm a litle underwhelmed to be honest.

1. No zoom
2. can't even erase a single recieved call with deleting all of them
3. the camera button is very odly placed which makes it very hard to hold with one and and take pics.
4. no multitasking
5. was surprised at the lack of options in setting to custimize.

should i take this back and wait for the 4g with hopes all this will be cured.

It sounded like you were here just to bash the iPhone.

Anyway, why not just take it back if you are so unsatisfied with it?

[kernkraft]

This year looks like it's gonna be a revolutionary one! What do
you guys think?!

About the original topic, the flash...


4 years ago, I had a Siemens phone that had flash with its camera. It also had an aluminium and magnesium body, it was a slider and I paid £50+£10 for it, the latter covering the sim card and £10 pre-paid credit. Since then, even cheaper phones have flash. So I am sorry, but so far this year, we only have some speculations, some rumors and an ageing product range from Apple.

In terms of the MacBook Pros, new processors will be introduced, the current C2Ds are getting old. Perhaps new screen options? But after almost all companies coming out with their cheap tablets, I don't know, what sort of thing should Apple come out with to deserve the 'revolutionary' mark. Perhaps reinventing the FM radio and activate them on the iPhones? (If it's true that the hardware is there.)

I'm sorry, but simply showing up is not going to be enough.


HOWEVER, ABOUT GOOD STUFF IN THE INDUSTRY...

Gaming will have a very good year in terms of new hardware. 3D is really taking off with very reasonably priced video cameras out this year. In smartphoneland, there are a few very good devices out, it's not Apple-hegemony anymore. New generation of e-readers are coming out with better screens, longer battery life and we'll see, whether tablets will fulfil their promise. Perhaps there is not a revolution yet, but it's gonna be very solid progress.



Anyway i'm still under the 30 risk free trial



This is not the best time to get an iPhone. But with poor AT&T, there is never a good time. I would take it back and wait a month, you will see, whatever is out by then and with which carrier.

[AidenShaw]

i must say at&t sucks. dropped calls left and right

This sounds like reason enough to take it back - apparently you live/work in an AT&T dead zone.

And an updated phone won't fix the carrier problem....

[ChazUK]

It sounded like you were here just to bash the iPhone.

I can't help but feel the same way.... Possibly not the best first post on the forums.

If it is that bad for you, take it back while you can.

[fox10078]

One advantage of LED flash over xenon is that it can be used as a flashlight.

Yes the flashlight app doesn't cut it sometimes. This would make it my swiss army knife.

[guzhogi]

About the original topic, the flash...


4 years ago, I had a Siemens phone that had flash with its camera. It also had an aluminium and magnesium body, it was a slider and I paid £50+£10 for it, the latter covering the sim card and £10 pre-paid credit. Since then, even cheaper phones have flash. So I am sorry, but so far this year, we only have some speculations, some rumors and an ageing product range from Apple.

In terms of the MacBook Pros, new processors will be introduced, the current C2Ds are getting old. Perhaps new screen options? But after almost all companies coming out with their cheap tablets, I don't know, what sort of thing should Apple come out with to deserve the 'revolutionary' mark. Perhaps reinventing the FM radio and activate them on the iPhones? (If it's true that the hardware is there.)

I'm sorry, but simply showing up is not going to be enough.

I agree, Apple is really behind the times with a lot of this stuff. Sure, BluRay's a "bag of hurt," but a lot of stuff has been out in competitor's computers for years. And when Apple DOES include somethings, they make it seem like they were the first to do it. Just give us stuff like blueray, an SD slot on the phone, a decent sensor, flash & optics on the cameras, etc., and a better wireless carrier & I'd be happy. I know, probably not gonna happen, but I can at least hope. [/rant]

[zachman76]

It sounded like you were here just to bash the iPhone.

Anyway, why not just take it back if you are so unsatisfied with it?

totally not true man. i have plenty of apple products and was so thrilled to get the iphone i couldn't wait any longer. i was holding out for the 4g but didn't think i could wait till summer.

I love the phone but the dropped calls and slow internet or lack of it makes it hard to justify having it. the other things i mentioned are just some things i would think apple may upgrade in the next revision so maybe i should have waited. i mean i can live with a dropped call here and there for an amazing phone. but i also don't want to pay 600 for an iphone 4g if it's as amazing as it should be. so i can opt out now and resign in 6 months and still get subsidised pricing.

[lilskaterpunk]

I think it would be a great feature to be added, although the iPhone could use other changes too ;)
This year is gonna be good with Apple :apple:

[localoid]

This year looks like it's gonna be a revolutionary one! What do
you guys think?!

I think "revolutionary" ranks as one of the most overused marketing terms of the 21st century.

[sportsfan]

yes but your link, which is very interesting btw, says the sweet spot is 6 megapixels. So an increase is in order for the iphone camera.

6 megapixels is the "sweet spot" for an imaging sensor that is 2/3 inches.
From what I can find on the internet, the iPhone sensor is 1/4 inches. Which means that the "sweet spot" for the iPhone would be somewhere around 1.7 megapixels.

[apple forever]

the idea of having a camera in a phone is good but camera in a phone is just an extra function, they are not a camera, if people want to take pictures use the real thing.

phones with camera supposed to take a quick picture when they do not have a camera with them.

apple shouldn't focus on how many megapixel they have, after all it is a phone not a camera, they should focus on things that the iphone is really missing.

NO FLash of any type is needed for a phone, if people want flash, buy a camera.

[goobot]

why cant people understand that the itouch isnt getting a camera. its to thick coastly and its the few key things to the phone the touch doesnt have.

[joepunk]

I miss the flash feature of my lost LG 8300 verizon phone. The replacement one that I got, LG 8350, does not have a flash.

So, I am glad that there is talk of iPhones incorporating a flash in the near possible future.

[goobot]

I miss the flash feature of my lost LG 8300 verizon phone. The replacement one that I got, LG 8350, does not have a flash.

So, I am glad that there is talk of iPhones incorporating a flash in the near possible future.

dont get your hopes up. many rumors are killed easy. look at the rumored iphone last year.

[rwilliams]

why cant people understand that the itouch isnt getting a camera. its to thick coastly and its the few key things to the phone the touch doesnt have.

Exactly. They will never give you all of the iPhone's features in the iPod Touch because it gives the customer no incentive to buy the iPhone, and no iPhone purchase means no monthly kickbacks to Apple.

[sishaw]

Hey guys i just bought an iphone two days ago and i must say at&t sucks. dropped calls left and right ...

And this has what to do with the thread, exactly?

[KindredMAC]

Yes seriously. You have both pieces of equipment? Go take shots and prove it.

You're talking to an actual photographer here so watch the B.S. when you respond.
An "actual photographer" would know the benefits of FILL FLASH. It's easy to call yourself something on the internet and then tell everyone else they can't "BS"....
Every pro that I have ever retouched for has always evangelized about shooting with a flash even outdoors.

flash on a camera phone is rubbish.

But chalk KindredMAC up as one for the megapixel myth.
Where did I say that I was comparing MPs?????
Here is what I said:
Back to reality: I'm really excited by this news! We are using our iPhones more and more for snap shots and this would definitely put the nail in the coffin of our Fuji 5MP that is about 5 years old.
Chalk TuffLuffJimmy up as someone who can't understand the English language.

Try taking a picture of someone in a dark nightclub with your 3GS.

With a flash, there'll actually be a picture.

Phazer
I wasn't quite thinking of in a nightclub setting but a interior home shot in the evening will benefit from any kind of flash! But we are still on the same page!

[tennispro5023]

Can someone show me clear proof that 5 megapix + LED flash makes a significantly better photograph than 3.2 on the iPhone 3GS?

You are absolutely 100% correct. I have read postings on how megapixels on a phone do not matter unless you are taking the pictures off the phone and printing them. So megapixels does not really matter and flashes on phone's just suck.

[rjohnstone]

That would be great and all, but the question is does any company actually manufacture a better sensor (I assume you meant sensor rather than lens) that can operate properly in something as small as a phone? If so, why don't we see them in any camera phones today?

Yes, a fixed direction flash will not produce anything remotely close to a professional photograph. They do allow you to take up-close photographs in low light that will produce a viewable image. Many people are fine with those limitations. Many people don't even consider such details when taking photos. Many people simply take photos for the sake of the memories.

As technology progresses, we will see better cameras in phones.
Better cameras in cell phones are already here... and have been for a while.

Cell phones with a 12 megapixel camera and a xenon flash exist already.
Sony Ericsson Satio (12.1 megapixels) is one of them and has great reviews.
Granted it cost over $1k.

The Nokia N86 sports an 8 megapixel camera with a Carl Zeiss lens.

The LG Viewty Smart sports an 8 megapixel camera as well and also gets fantastic reviews for color quality.


Carl Zeiss has been making arguably the best lens for cellphones for a long time now.
Much better than the spec of glass used on the 3GS.

Couple that with a quality CMOS (like the one Sony uses) and you have a great camera phone.

So the fact that Apple may FINALLY be putting a flash (and a crappy LED one at that) is neither amazing or revolutionary.

[JMW3215]

We all have to remember that this is apple that we are talking about here... If they decide to put a flash on the back of the iPhone, they WILL find a way to make it look sexy....for example: hide the flash inside of the apple logo on the back, that way you won't be able to see it until you turn it on.

[VenusianSky]

Better cameras in cell phones are already here... and have been for a while.

Cell phones with a 12 megapixel camera and a xenon flash exist already.
Sony Ericsson Satio (12.1 megapixels) is one of them and has great reviews.
Granted it cost over $1k.

The Nokia N86 sports an 8 megapixel camera with a Carl Zeiss lens.

The LG Viewty Smart sports an 8 megapixel camera as well and also gets fantastic reviews for color quality.


Carl Zeiss has been making arguably the best lens for cellphones for a long time now.
Much better than the spec of glass used on the 3GS.

Couple that with a quality CMOS (like the one Sony uses) and you have a great camera phone.

So the fact that Apple may FINALLY be putting a flash (and a crappy LED one at that) is neither amazing or revolutionary.

That's cool that some companies are making cameras that have phone functionality. For those that are looking for that type of device, they should consider one of those. However, if Apple were to do the same with the iPhone at this time, it would most likely have a negative effect to the design and cost.

The lens doesn't necessarily make for a good photo when it comes to digital photography. If the sensor is cheap, a Carl Zeiss lens will help very little. In addition, just because a lens is branded Carl Zeiss doesn't necessarily mean it is a good lens, especially when you are talking about a Carl Zeiss lens for a camera phone. Sometimes it just makes it easier to sell.

I don't think anyone here thinks it is amazing or revolutionary that Apple may be adding a flash. It seems most people here are saying it's about time, considering how many other brands already do so.

[baryon]

I don't understand people actually caring much about the camera on a phone. It takes crap pictures, not matter how many megapixels it has, and no matter what kind of flash it has. Actually, if it had a good flash, it would drain lots of battery power. If it had more megapixels, the already bad signal-to-noise ratio would get much worse due to the fact that the individual pixels are smaller. It would only produce larger images that would take more time to save and would be of worse quality. It's useful to have a decent camera with you all the time in case you need to take a photo of something to show someone, it's also useful for augmented reality apps, but if you care a bit about actual photos, you have to buy a camera!

[ifonline]

Its a phone, damn it, not a camera!
Bring us multi tasking and better battery life!

Yep. You're right. It's a phone, damn it.

Let's remove that calculator app, or that weather app, or that web browser, because it's a phone, damn it.
Let's remove the ability to install those games, because it's a phone, damn it.
Let's remove the iPod functionality, because it's a phone, damn it.
Let's remove the touch screen and replace it with a keypad, because it's a phone, damn it.

Don't confuse your lack of interest in a flash as a shared opinion with everyone else. It makes you look like an idiot.

You're not an idiot, are you? Nah... I didn't think so.

[NokX]

"flash on a camera phone is stupid!!!"

then don't use it. i personally would like to see what i'm taking a picture of when there's not enough light.

and if you want to take an excellent picture....buy a camera. maybe cell phones will be able to take high quality photos in a couple of years, but don't worry about it right now.

now... i do wish the iphone had a message indicator light. that way i don't have to unlock my phone just to check for any new messages.

[rickster2k]

5mpx is a good move but they need to increase the size of the sensor. At present it's far too small. The biggest beef I have with the 3GS's camera be it 3.2mpx is the underexposure on the camera. In good light it's just about acceptable but anything other it's poor, it underexposes like anything and if you try to correct on the autofocus you just end up overexposing.

LED is nothing really, granted it's been around for years but Apple really should be moving towards Zenon.

Give me a decent sized sensor and a few more manual controls on the camera function (exposure, white-balance, etc) and it would sell it to me. My old Nokia N82 had a 5mpx camera and Zenon flash and it would knock the socks of the 3GS camera.

[anonymouz1828]

Great .. i cant wait for the next iphone .. flash will be good. There are some fake iphone with flash and some looks good. I would like a flash near the camera or the apple logo to be a flash. Anyway .. flash is good for pictures and for flashlight in dark places. I hope Apple use xenon flash as mentioned bcuz it looks much better as shown on the previous picture. Innovate Apple!!! Use xenon flash. I would like a more resistant phone using the 'gorilla glass' too.

[bigpics]

Most of what you said, but I would like to see Apple use an iPhone sized case to bring out a touch camera with all the rest of the capabilities of a touch - and use all the phone electronics space for a decent (better than cell phone quality) camera. this could be done without violating the laws of optical physics and there should be enough space to maximize lens/sensor quality plus processing hardware and software (which also matter at least as much as megapixels). In other words, not make all Touches "fat," but a separate touch model encroaching on the P&S market with features otherwise undreamed of there.

There's a convergence device that would grab me. A relatively simple Verizon smart phone (for PHONING and backup net access out of wi-fi range). No AT&T required.Megapixels are often pure marketing gimmickry like the old MHz wars. IN fact, without great optics to back up those megapixels, a higher-MP sensor can actually make a WORSE picture because it’s more sensitive to noise: even with the 5MP image is scaled down. (Many examples (http://6mpixel.org/en/?page_id=32) are online—the difference is often striking.) I’m skeptical that cell phone is going to have optics to beat many 5MP full-size cameras. In which case, not only are you getting worse pictures, but your pictures are burning up extra storage space for all time!

That said, IF the optics in a cell phone can be good enough to not have 5MP noise problems, then I’d gladly have that feature, for the sake of cropping in if nothing else. Let’s hope Apple cares about noise more than me-too bullet points, and gives good-quality 5MP or none at all. Until we know what they release, all we can do is look at the noise problems with other 5MP+ cameras.

As for flash... well, taking a close-up in a dark room is a no brainer :) I wouldn’t use it much (and I don’t on my “real” camera either) but I WOULD like to have the option, it it didn’t contribute to a bulkier iPhone.

[rjohnstone]

That's cool that some companies are making cameras that have phone functionality. For those that are looking for that type of device, they should consider one of those. However, if Apple were to do the same with the iPhone at this time, it would most likely have a negative effect to the design and cost.


I was expecting an asinine response like that. :rolleyes:

This my friend, is a phone with an awesome camera. Not a "camera with phone functionality" as you put it.

I don't care for SE's styling choice or their UI too much, but it is a smart phone first, not a camera.

http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/satio?cc=gb&lc=en#view=specifications
http://www.phonedone.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/sony-ericsson-satio-news.jpg

I'm sure if it had an Apple logo slapped on it, Apple fans would be singing it's praises.


The lens doesn't necessarily make for a good photo when it comes to digital photography. If the sensor is cheap, a Carl Zeiss lens will help very little. In addition, just because a lens is branded Carl Zeiss doesn't necessarily mean it is a good lens, especially when you are talking about a Carl Zeiss lens for a camera phone. Sometimes it just makes it easier to sell.

True, but slapping a piece of low quality glass over any CMOS sensor will hurt it, not help.

Also, Carl Zeiss does not make "cheap/low quality/bad" lenses.
They have a reputation to uphold.
That's why people prefer them.

[Clown Boy]

Everyone knows Steve Jobbs is my uncle and that I am head of innovation at Apple.

We are going to use a 5mp censor and a flash from a SLR camera in the iPhone 4gb.

People will say "wow Apple, you are the best and your head of innovation is like Bill Gates".

People need to wait and see but will be surprised how great Apple are.

Stop the talk and believe me.

[MacFly123]

Sounds like the new iPhone is going to be a nice hardware upgrade all around! Especially for me since I still have the 3G! I am excited! :D

P.S. Apple? Can you add an option to the video camera to ONLY RECORD IN LANDSCAPE so when you hold the iPhone vertically (which is more comfortable) the image rotates to stay in landscape? I HATE when people shoot video in portrait, or that switches from widescreen to vertical and is moving all over like on the Flip cameras and such! There should be no such thing as portrait video PERIOD!

[ChazUK]

Steve Jobs is my uncle and I have a protoype 42" iMac with Blue-Ray


Blu-ray?:confused:

[ghostface147]

This year looks like it's gonna be a revolutionary one! What do
you guys think?!

What do you consider revolutionary? Hopefully 3rd party background apps and a better camera isn't what you consider revolutionary.

[ghostface147]

Hey clown boy.....what is blue-ray? Now I have heard of blu-ray..........

[ghostface147]

Everyone knows Steve Jobbs is my uncle and that I am head of innovation at Apple.


Jobbs? Never heard of him. He must work at Mapple. Your handle fits you well.

[pubwvj]

Bye-bye battery life...

[weing]

If they really wanted to improve the camera picture quality they would DROP the sensor to 2MP. That would give you good photos in almost any light conditions. And 2 MP is still plenty of resolution unless you are Ansel Adams.
I'm am so amazed how many people are so ignorant when it comes to quality digital photos and the near meaninglessness of a high pixel count to achieve it.

[Clown Boy]

Jobbs? Never heard of him. He must work at Mapple. Your handle fits you well.

I have problem with English because I am from Korea, sorry. You will see I am write though.

And Steve is my Uncle. His email is steve@apple.com only his head of innovator would no that.

[Skoal]

It sounded like you were here just to bash the iPhone.

Anyway, why not just take it back if you are so unsatisfied with it?

Actually I dont think thats bashing at all! I think those are all very valid questions. Seriously, why do you have to delet every number that calls yet you can delete individual VM's? And YES, the positioning of the camera button is horendous and I'm surprised this still hasn't been addressed by Apple. I love my iPhone a lot but there are things that could be improved easily instead of adding a flash to gloss over inadequacies.

[ifonline]

If they really wanted to improve the camera picture quality they would DROP the sensor to 2MP... I'm am so amazed how many people are so ignorant when it comes to quality digital photos and the near meaninglessness of a high pixel count to achieve it.

Lucky you aren't ignorant, huh?

I mean... your argument makes so much sense, that must explain why the Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III and the Nikon D3X have only 2MP sensors. Because 2MP sensors is all you need for outstanding quality. Any more would be stupid.

Please stop now. You look like a fool.

[koobcamuk]

Can someone show me clear proof that 5 megapix + LED flash makes a significantly better photograph than 3.2 on the iPhone 3GS?

It just is.

Having said that, my 3.2 MP camera is better because it's a CCD not a CMOS.

Most mobile phones (bar Japanese handsets) have **** cameras.

[AidenShaw]

Lucky you aren't ignorant, huh?

I mean... your argument makes so much sense, that must explain why the Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III and the Nikon D3X have only 2MP sensors. Because 2MP sensors is all you need for outstanding quality. Any more would be stupid.

Please stop now. You look like a fool.

It's foolish to compare the pixel count of a full frame sensor (36mm x 24mm) DSLR with the pixel count of a phone camera's sensor which is tiny by comparison.

Tiny sensor + lots of pixels = tiny pixels + lots of noise

Note that Blu-ray/1080p video, which most people think is pretty good, is just a hair over 2Mpixel. So, if 2 Mpixel is good enough for my 52" XBR, I think that it's good enough for my phone camera.

Canon recently *upgraded* it's "pro point and shoot" cameras, and *reduced* the pixel count from 15M pixel to 10 Mpixel! Here's what one reviewer said:

Better resolution than 12MP cameras, meaning fewer pixels.

Compact cameras have way too many pixels today. This makes them noisy and chokes-out details. Fewer pixels is a better choice. I usually shoot my cameras set to around 6MP, so the fat 10MP sensors of the G11 and S90 are much better ideas than 12MP and 15MP sensors jammed into other compact cameras.

Finally, someone is getting serious in fixing the resolution problem.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/s90.htm

Tiny pixels are just a bad idea - unless you have the optics and sensor size to match, go with fewer but higher quality pixels.

Full disclosure: I just purchased both a G11 and an S90.

[flopticalcube]

It's foolish to compare the pixel count of a full frame sensor (36mm x 24mm) DSLR with the pixel count of a phone camera's sensor which is tiny by comparison.
Tiny sensor + lots of pixels = tiny pixels + lots of noiseNote that Blu-ray/1080p video, which most people think is pretty good, is just a hair over 2Mpixel. So, if 2 Mpixel is good enough for my 52" XBR, I think that it's good enough for my phone camera.

Canon recently *upgraded* it's "pro point and shoot" cameras, and *reduced* the pixel count from 15M pixel to 10 Mpixel! Here's what one reviewer said:



Tiny pixels are just a bad idea - unless you have the optics and sensor size to match, go with fewer but higher quality pixels.
Perfect. That is the issue in a nutshell.

[muskratboy]

I'm I the only one that doesn't really care about the camera?

Yes, you are. the camera phone is one of the best inventions EVER. get with it!

1. No zoom
2. can't even erase a single recieved call with deleting all of them
3. the camera button is very odly placed which makes it very hard to hold with one hand and and take pics. especially of yourself
4. no multitasking
5. was surprised at the lack of options in setting to custimize.



1) sweet, a crappy fake digital zoom. are you nuts? yes, a FEW have optical zooms... and they are all big and clunky (a requirement for optical zoom)

3) um, it really isn't. learn how to hold it. and maybe stop taking pictures of yourself and go make some real friends, hmmm?

4) still don't understand why this is a big deal. with enough speed, mutli-tasking is pointless. now, maybe the 3GS isn't QUITE fast enough... but soon enough, there will be no point in multi-tasking on a phone.

5) what options were you expecting? be fatter? run less smoothly? get on verizon network? :D


Note that Blu-ray/1080p video, which most people think is pretty good, is just a hair over 2Mpixel. So, if 2 Mpixel is good enough for my 52" XBR, I think that it's good enough for my phone camera.[/I]

uh... you realize video and still photos are in no way the same thing, right? i still watch 640x480 ... but that don't cut it for photos. motion changes everything.

[KnightWRX]

Bye-bye battery life...

LEDs are known for being very heavy on the battery use right ? Oh wait...

Seriously, my Sony Ericsson phone from 2006 had a LED flash. 2 things :

- You don't have to use it. Just enable or disable it.
- It really helped in darker conditions.

Why would people be opposed to this ? Seriously, LEDs don't eat through a battery and if you don't want it, just don't use it. It's there for other people that actually care about taking pictures where you see something rather than different shades of black.

[AidenShaw]

i still watch 640x480 ... but that don't cut it for photos. motion changes everything.

A 21" Imac is 2.07 Mpixel. A 27" Imac is 3.69 Mpixel. Just where are you going to look at the multi-megapixel photos?

Please reread my post. 25 Mpixel is definitely good for an $8000 Nikon body whose sensor is 1/4 the size of the Iphone's display screen.

For the Iphone (or most phone cameras), the sensor is a small fraction of the size of your little fingernail. That means that the pixels are tiny, and only a small number of photons hit each pixel. That makes the image very noisy.

Adding more pixels makes the pixels smaller, reduces the number of photons, increases the noise, and reduces the quality of the image. You can increase the diameter of the lens, and make the camera thicker, to compensate.
____________

My point is simply that if you constrain the size of the lens and camera, there's a point where adding pixels reduces the quality of the images.

I think that a reasonable point is when the phone camera is 1:1 for a 1080p HDTV or a 21" Imac. I'll bring my 10 Mpixel point and shoot with an f2.0 lens and a real flash if I plan on taking pictures. Otherwise, 1080p HDTV quality is good enough for me.

[Gepper]

A 21" Imac is 2.07 Mpixel. A 27" Imac is 3.69 Mpixel. Just where are you going to look at the multi-megapixel photos?
<Snip>

Quoted for truth. Those 8MP camera phones are mostly a sales trick unless they have the optics and sensor to back it up. The camera on the mars rover had a 1MP sensor with optics that probably costs more then what most of us people make in a year or two and it beats the living crap out of any camera phone ;)

Please stop spreading the MP myth.

[Eso]

4) still don't understand why this is a big deal. with enough speed, mutli-tasking is pointless. now, maybe the 3GS isn't QUITE fast enough... but soon enough, there will be no point in multi-tasking on a phone.

Still on this, I see ;)

[greygray]

This year looks like it's gonna be a revolutionary one! What do
you guys think?!

Exactly! With the Tablet hopefully introduced and these lip-smacking goodies that hopefully come to the iPhone . . . mmm . . . tasty . . :o

[Thex1138]

The Apple logo on back is the new camera flash...

[jayducharme]

Apple should push the improvement further instead of 'catching up'.

I agree. The 2G iPhone is marginally okay for times when I don't have a "real" camera with me, but there was really no excuse for such poor performance. Much better cameras have been in much cheaper phones for a few years. I'm not excited about the possibility of a flash, since it really wouldn't make that much of an improvement and would simply drain the battery. But a higher resolution camera is a no-brainer. The idea with the iPhone was to combine many different technologies seamlessly into one. With a good camera, that would make one less gadget I'd have to carry.

[pmz]

Megapixels are often pure marketing gimmickry like the old MHz wars. IN fact, without great optics to back up those megapixels, a higher-MP sensor can actually make a WORSE picture because it’s more sensitive to noise: even with the 5MP image is scaled down. (Many examples (http://6mpixel.org/en/?page_id=32) are online—the difference is often striking.) I’m skeptical that cell phone is going to have optics to beat many 5MP full-size cameras. In which case, not only are you getting worse pictures, but your pictures are burning up extra storage space for all time!

That said, IF the optics in a cell phone can be good enough to not have 5MP noise problems, then I’d gladly have that feature, for the sake of cropping in if nothing else. Let’s hope Apple cares about noise more than me-too bullet points, and gives good-quality 5MP or none at all. Until we know what they release, all we can do is look at the noise problems with other 5MP+ cameras.

As for flash... well, taking a close-up in a dark room is a no brainer :) I wouldn’t use it much (and I don’t on my “real” camera either) but I WOULD like to have the option, it it didn’t contribute to a bulkier iPhone.

iKnow ;)

Try taking a picture of someone in a dark nightclub with your 3GS.

With a flash, there'll actually be a picture.

Phazer

Not something I would even consider doing. And you say, with a "flash". A flash, yes. That's something you'd find on a camera. An LED light is what you'd find on a phone, and is what's in question. Scroll up for the dark picture that was taken with an LED "flash".

[KnightWRX]

Not something I would even consider doing. And you say, with a "flash". A flash, yes. That's something you'd find on a camera. An LED light is what you'd find on a phone, and is what's in question. Scroll up for the dark picture that was taken with an LED "flash".

Since when are you the center of the world ?

And that picture is crap. The LED lights work fine and help a lot in club settings or just on the streets at night. My Sony phone with a LED flash worked great.

Here's a picture of my dog sleeping, taken outside around 1 a.m. The only light source besides my Sony's LED is the camp fire about 12 feet away. In other words, it would be pitch black on a iPhone :

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w114/redkteg97/DSC00047-1.jpg

Full size picture :

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w114/redkteg97/DSC00047.jpg

Not to mention the LED "flash" doubled great as a flashlight. White LEDs have a tendency of being really bright. But I guess if Apple got rid of all the flashlight Apps on the store, the Android Market would end up the biggest app store around so they can't really justify that.

[pmz]

Since when are you the center of the world ?

And that picture is crap. The LED lights work fine and help a lot in club settings or just on the streets at night. My Sony phone with a LED flash worked great.

Here's a picture of my dog sleeping, taken outside around 1 a.m. The only light source besides my Sony's LED is the camp fire about 12 feet away. In other words, it would be pitch black on a iPhone :

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w114/redkteg97/DSC00047-1.jpg

Full size picture :

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w114/redkteg97/DSC00047.jpg

Not to mention the LED "flash" doubled great as a flashlight. White LEDs have a tendency of being really bright. But I guess if Apple got rid of all the flashlight Apps on the store, the Android Market would end up the biggest app store around so they can't really justify that.


You should forward this post to Steve Jobs and point out that if it weren't for your LED flash, you'd have missed the opportunity to get this award winning shot. If ALL you had was an iPhone, LMAO.

[KnightWRX]

You should forward this post to Steve Jobs and point out that if it weren't for your LED flash, you'd have missed the opportunity to get this award winning shot. If ALL you had was an iPhone, LMAO.

I'm not a photographer, nor did I pretend I was. However, it doesn't matter that the picture does not meet your high standards or whatever, what's important is that I have fond memories of that day and I love my dog. That picture will stay with me for the rest of my life.

Photography isn't just about some high standard of art. Sometimes, it's just about remembering something.

And since you're such a big shot photographer, why are you so worried about a LED flash on the iPhone ? What the heck does it change for you that there is one vs not having one ?

A lot of people here thinking they are the center of the world.

[craigmagner]

The iPhone would look dumb with a huge light in the back of it!!

indeed it would :)

[mr.steevo]

That picture will stay with me for the rest of my life...

A lot of people here thinking they are the center of the world.

Stop typing.

[KnightWRX]

Stop typing.

It's funny that everyone asking to see how better a LED flash was now result to personal attacks and insults instead of just trying to tell us why they think no LED flash at all is better than a LED flash that can be enabled or disabled depending on conditions.

Why is it you are all so opposed to a LED on the iPhone to help taking pictures in darker places ? Does it hurt you physically ? Please, enlighten us.

Seeing how this article is 76 Positives, 15 Negatives right now, it seems it's only a very vocal minority that seems dead set against this...

[Bonsai1214]

obviously for the next gen ipod nano, rather than an iphone.

[dieburnbot]

The next gen iPhone is looking better and better each day. Excited to upgrade my 3G this summer.

Same here I can't wait. I really hope this is true. :) I'm glad I skipped over the 3GS.

[collegar.com]

Like software updates, like this bluetooth keyboard?

http://bit.ly/7iqsRd

[OGDaniel]

Apple should push the improvement further instead of 'catching up'.

I agree with that completely.

[flopticalcube]

I agree with that completely.
I also agree. What happened to "Think different(ly)" ?

[firewood]

Originally Posted by pmz
Can someone show me clear proof that 5 megapix + LED flash makes a significantly better photograph than 3.2 on the iPhone 3GS?

Seriously? wow....

Very seriously.

I have a really old chunky 2 MPix camera with a nice large Olympus lens on it, and it not only takes far far far better pictures than my iPhone 3GS's 3.2 MPix camera, but also slightly better pics than my friends 5 MPix ultra-compact camera.

Why? Because the lens matters as much and often more than the pixel count. And a 5 MPix sensor without a matching larger aperture lens (which might not fit in a thin compact camera, much less a cell phone) could easily take worse photos than a 2 MPix sensor that is better matched to a higher quality len's bigger aperture and longer focal length.

You need a lot of photons illuminating each pixel to allow smooth, non-noisy, color gradients; and those tiny sensors behind a tiny pin-hole lens just don't get enough. You can't fool the laws of physics.

[newdeal]

clearly the flash will be the apple logo and everyone will get a boner when steve jobs pulls it out

[rcha101]

5 megapixel camera, new gpu, flash... If they could add an FM radio I would definitely upgrade. Isn't competition great?

Any chance we'll see a new model sooner than June now the Gphone has been released??

[mingoglia]

Personally I think 3mp is enough for a camera phone. With a traditional camera several years ago I could take a pic and print it up to 8x10 and have excellent quality. As was said by someone else the higher mp can just introduce noise. It's ALL about the optics. With that being said, if the noise is in check, might as well have the 5mp. No need to drag behind on technology, I just wouldn't use it as a reason to upgrade from an "older" iPhone.

I feel the same for the flash. I have a BB Bold with a pretty bright flash. Even with the flash, and a camera that takes pretty good pics it's pretty worthless unless you get right up on something. If you're taking a pic of a person you literally have to get close enough to blind them for it to work that well. So just like the increased mp, I'd say having the flash is a nice to have but I wouldn't run out to upgrade just because of it.

Mike

[martint84]

Any chance we'll see a new model sooner than June now the Gphone has been released??

It's possible, but I'm willing to bet that Apple will stick to their traditional June iPhone update. There are a ton of people, myself included, that switched to at&t and bought the iPhone 3G at launch. Our 2 year contracts end this summer. Hopefully we'll hear about what's going to happen with at&t exclusivity in the next several months so we know our options. Furthermore, a June update gives them just enough time to have plenty available when it becomes the next "must have" holiday gift.

EDIT: I know someone's going to say that Apple doesn't care when I personally bought my iPhone 3G, but this graph shows what I'm trying to say:
http://mobileappmarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/iphone-sales-growth-chart.png

[KindredMAC]

Stop typing.
He doesn't need to... He's been right on the money.
It's funny that everyone asking to see how better a LED flash was now result to personal attacks and insults instead of just trying to tell us why they think no LED flash at all is better than a LED flash that can be enabled or disabled depending on conditions.

Why is it you are all so opposed to a LED on the iPhone to help taking pictures in darker places ? Does it hurt you physically ? Please, enlighten us.

Seeing how this article is 76 Positives, 15 Negatives right now, it seems it's only a very vocal minority that seems dead set against this...

+1 mon frere!

[jglavin]

Why is it you are all so opposed to a LED on the iPhone to help taking pictures in darker places ? Does it hurt you physically ? Please, enlighten us.Plus how is it not a good thing to have a real flashlight on your phone? I could give 2 ***** about a flash, but a flashlight would be really useful.

[tennispro5023]

Hey guys i just bought an iphone two days ago and i must say at&t sucks. dropped calls left and right and i can't seem to get on the internet other than wifi since i dropped the phone one time. didn't even leave a scuff mark.

Anyway i'm still under the 30 risk free trial and my other phone line is still activated. should i take it back and wait for the new iphone to come out and possibly with Verizon. I like the phone but i'm a litle underwhelmed to be honest.

1. No zoom
2. can't even erase a single recieved call with deleting all of them
3. the camera button is very odly placed which makes it very hard to hold with one hand and and take pics. especially of yourself
4. no multitasking
5. was surprised at the lack of options in setting to custimize.

should i take this back and wait for the 4g with hopes all this will be cured.

Definitely without a doubt take it back. I am not an iPhone hater, in fact i loved it, best phone i have ever had hands down. BUT AT&T is horrific and i even paid the early termination fee because they are so horrendous. I switched back to verizon and i recommend that you do the same. I will wait for the iPhone to come to a WAYYYY better network.

[tennispro5023]

I have problem with English because I am from Korea, sorry. You will see I am write though.

And Steve is my Uncle. His email is steve@apple.com only his head of innovator would no that.

Yeah and if you were his actual nephew you would know not to give out his e-mail.

[rtdunham]

Hey guys i just bought an iphone two days ago and i must say at&t sucks. dropped calls left and right and i can't seem to get on the internet other than wifi since i dropped the phone one time. didn't even leave a scuff mark.

Anyway i'm still under the 30 risk free trial and my other phone line is still activated. should i take it back and wait for the new iphone to come out and possibly with Verizon. I like the phone but i'm a litle underwhelmed to be honest.

1. No zoom
2. can't even erase a single recieved call with deleting all of them
3. the camera button is very odly placed which makes it very hard to hold with one hand and and take pics. especially of yourself
4. no multitasking
5. was surprised at the lack of options in setting to custimize.

should i take this back and wait for the 4g with hopes all this will be cured.

Definitely take it back: ATT's not working for you, so it's a no brainer. It works fine for me in many places but all that matters is YOUR experience.

As for your list, #s 1 & 4, that's general knowledge, stuff you shoulda known before you bought it. #2 and 3 you might not notice til you had the phone in hand. You're right f'sure about #3.

Speaking of having the phone in hand, you've had it 2 days and already dropped it? (and it sounds like the wi-fi worked until it was dropped). No snideness intended, but you might consider getting a cheaper flip phone--everyone's life style is different and that can dictate phone choice. As for #5, that hasn't been my experience but again, everyone's diff. I love my phone, dislike a little about ATT svc, and suspect other carriers' service will be as bad or worse if/when one of them gets an iPhone and accumulates tens of millions of customers on its network.

[bergmef]

I'd like to see the camera move to the other side, bigger sensor of course. Then use the screen as the flash with the ambient light sensor setting the brightness. Turn the apple logo into a small screen to use as a viewfinder. The camera can be used for conferencing also.

Dumb idea maybe, but a fun one from an engineering standpoint.

[dmo580]

Wow Apple. Thanks for playing. Thanks for catching up. For the rest of the clueless American consumers, when did you start getting LED flash anyway? Like never? Our cameraphones here have always been out of date.

In 2005 I bought an unlocked Sony Ericsson K750 2.0 MP with LED flash. The unlocked phones of the world have been ages ahead. Nokia's N95 + LED flash was a killer.

It is very true Xenon > LED, but Nokia's made some pretty good phones like the N86 that does extremely well. It is obvious most LED flashes like HTC's or whatever don't do that well. What makes the Touch Diamond and TD2 do well is the F2.8 lens. However, in low light they completely fail. Yet the N86 does pretty well. Dual LED + 3rd gen dose pretty well.

Look at the N82 vs N86 comparisons that Nokia released. The N82 was a Xenon flash 5MP cameraphone, once touted the best. The N86 clearly beat it even though it only has an LED flash.

Of course you can't expect Apple to implement anything crazy. But I suppose this is one of the first mainstream phones that will FINALLY bring LED flash into the US market. Hoorah. It's like getting cut copy and paste finally...