Bloomberg moves forward with NYC plan to reduce salt in foods

[mkrishnan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/business/11salt.html?hp

On Monday, the Bloomberg administration plans to unveil a broad new health initiative aimed at encouraging food manufacturers and restaurant chains across the country to curtail the amount of salt in their products.

The plan, for which the city claims support from health agencies in other cities and states, sets a goal of reducing the amount of salt in packaged and restaurant food by 25 percent over the next five years.

Public health experts say that would reduce the incidence of high blood pressure and should help prevent some of the strokes and heart attacks associated with that condition. The plan is voluntary for food companies and involves no legislation. It allows companies to cut salt gradually over five years so the change is not so noticeable to consumers.

“We all consume way too much salt, and most of the salt we consume is in the food when we buy it,” said Dr. Thomas Farley, the city health commissioner, whose department is leading the effort. Eighty percent of the salt in Americans’ diets comes from packaged or restaurant food. Dr. Farley said reducing salt from those sources would save lives.

Since taking office, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who just began his third term, has gained a reputation as an advocate for healthy living, initiating prominent campaigns against smoking and harmful trans fats. To combat obesity, he has campaigned for calorie labeling on restaurant menus and warned consumers about sugary soft drinks.

The city’s salt campaign is in some ways more ambitious and less certain of success than the ones it waged against smoking and obesity. For one thing, the changes it prescribes require cooperation on a national scale, city officials said, because major food companies cannot be expected to alter their products for just the New York market.

[Article Continues (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/business/11salt.html?hp)]

I think it's a good idea, based on what I've seen of the scientific data. Furthermore, salt can easily be added to foods, but it cannot be easily removed. Personally, I briefly was on a low salt diet for a completely different reason (an inner ear problem) last year, and one of the major problems I found was that, even on "heart healthy" menu choices, if anything, fat and perhaps overall calories or carbs were controlled, but the amount of sodium was ghastly. I'm off that diet now, but I still try to reduce my sodium intake where possible, and I would like to have more options.

[Ugg]

The UK has had pretty good results (http://www.food.gov.uk/healthiereating/salt/saltreduction) in reducing salt content across the board. It is most definitely doable and the rewards are immediate and huge.

I too have been on a low salt diet recently and it basically means no processed foods. A can of chicken noodle soup can have up to 90% of the RDA of sodium. A package of frozen peas i bought had 8% RDA per serving, more than a small serving of Cheetos.

Salt is added to virtually everything and its spread is insidious. I believe that more than 80% of the salt we consume is already present in food. Individuals are responsible for the remainder.

I think it's time for a massive tax on salt.

[mkrishnan]

Salt is added to virtually everything and its spread is insidious. I believe that more than 80% of the salt we consume is already present in food. Individuals are responsible for the remainder.

This is the main problem with eating out -- even if there are "options," it's almost impossible to eat out and maintain a recommended daily intake of sodium in the US at present. And, as you say, even eating at home requires changes in the amount of packaged food one eats. Now, probably many of us should eat less packaged food, but if it can be made without so much sodium, I think that would be good also.

[Eraserhead]

Yeah its always annoying how much salt there is in packaged food. But Ugg is right - it has dropped in the UK.

[Ugg]

This is the main problem with eating out -- even if there are "options," it's almost impossible to eat out and maintain a recommended daily intake of sodium in the US at present. And, as you say, even eating at home requires changes in the amount of packaged food one eats. Now, probably many of us should eat less packaged food, but if it can be made without so much sodium, I think that would be good also.

Like you said earlier, "Heart Healthy" foods at the grocery store rarely limit sodium. Low sodium chicken stock has only 24% of the RDA as opposed to over 40% for regular chicken stock.

Many of the food companies say that they need it for preservation purposes or because their customers demand it. I think both are canards really and that salt like sugar and fat is addictive. Over thousands of years our bodies have recognized the three substances as relatively rare and gladly over consume them. Now that they're common and cheap the food industry takes advantage of that.

[mkrishnan]

Yeah its always annoying how much salt there is in packaged food. But Ugg is right - it has dropped in the UK.

The UK does seem to demonstrate the point Bloomberg is making (and I'm glad to see him making it). These kind of public health interventions really work when there is a coordinated effort that changes the availability of food. Very few people succeed at changing their diet, because they're told to, in the absence of changing food options.

Hopefully Bloomberg's move will trickle down to the rest of the US, and the packaged food vendors and others who are getting on board with this will make these options available in small town and big city USA outside of NYC.

[LethalWolfe]

The city’s salt campaign is in some ways more ambitious and less certain of success than the ones it waged against smoking and obesity. For one thing, the changes it prescribes require cooperation on a national scale, city officials said, because major food companies cannot be expected to alter their products for just the New York market.
This quote reminds of the ripple effect things like CA car emissions standards had on the industry. All it takes sometimes is one state's regulations to impact the whole country.


Lethal

[Zombie Acorn]

Bland food, yuck.

[flopticalcube]

Bland food, yuck.
There are additives other than salt to add flavour to food.

[Rodimus Prime]

I agree there is way to much salt in what we eat. If you have to go on a very low sodium diet your food choices are very limited and a lot of what there is out there taste like crap because no one bothers trying to make it taste better. They cover up the poor taste with more salt.

I know one guy who if he consumes more than 250mg of sodium in a day he will be very dizzy and can not do anything but lay down. (Yes it is a medical condition and he told me how things have changed as it has gotten worse. He has gone from being able to eat salt like everyone out there to not be able to talk much of it as all)

[mkrishnan]

^^ 250 mg! :eek: Getting under 2000mg was very difficult, I thought, with an active lifestyle that included being at work long hours, going out socially, etc. I cannot imagine.

Bland food, yuck.

You'd be surprised, honestly. I mean, you can't exist without salt. It's tasty for a reason. But when I was not only cooking more food at home, but carefully monitoring the salt in it, I was quite surprised how tasty food could be without so much salt.

Furthermore, your -- our -- taste for salt is probably... toleranced -- by how much we consume. If you back down slowly, you probably wouldn't even notice it.

[hulugu]

^^ 250 mg! :eek: Getting under 2000mg was very difficult, I thought, with an active lifestyle that included being at work long hours, going out socially, etc. I cannot imagine.



You'd be surprised, honestly. I mean, you can't exist without salt. It's tasty for a reason. But when I was not only cooking more food at home, but carefully monitoring the salt in it, I was quite surprised how tasty food could be without so much salt.

Furthermore, your -- our -- taste for salt is probably... toleranced -- by how much we consume. If you back down slowly, you probably wouldn't even notice it.

I agree. People often use salt when spices, especially good ones—the chili powder from the grocery store doesn't count—would add just as much flavor to a dish.

Certainly salt is an important additive for food, but I've got a whole cupboard full of varying spices, so I use salt less.

[nbs2]

There are additives other than salt to add flavour to food.

Not the same way that salt does. Salt is a flavor enhancer rather than base flavor - you can bring out the seasoning that have already been applied through the judicious use of salt in the cooking process (adding during cooking goes further than adding at consumption).

The failure has long been on the overuse of salt in prepared foods to reduce the cost of flavoring or seasoning. A voluntary effort to reduce salt is good and mandatory convenient disclosure is better, but mandated reductions is bad - there are several elements of cuisine that merit or necessitate the inclusion of "high" quantities of salt.

[mkrishnan]

@nbs2 -- FWIW, the Bloomberg plan is voluntary and not legislatory. But also, it's a weighted average across the menu / whatever. Of course, some foods taste really good with an obnoxious amount of salt. And most healthy individuals can have a little extra salt, once in a while. The problem is more that, if the recommended daily allowance of salt is 2000mg or even 2500mg, it's very hard to go in many restaurants and find a dinner meal that has less than 1500mg of sodium in it -- and many of them have 2000 or more. I would be happy with low sodium options and sodium on the menu.

I agree. People often use salt when spices, especially good ones—the chili powder from the grocery store doesn't count—would add just as much flavor to a dish.

Actually, I don't think there's anything wrong with the chilli powder in most stores -- it just can't be used in isolation. My mamma made all manner of excellent Indian spicy dishes using the chilli powder from Meijer's. :D

[IntheNet]

I think it's a good idea, based on what I've seen of the scientific data...

Any government intervention, be it local, state, or federal, in the food preparation business generally yields a restriction upon the free choice of citizens; in this case customers of restaurants. Secondly, these type of unilateral actions by government tend to pass on unfunded mandates; food prep companies would likely have to pass on enormous cost increases to local restauranteers for low sodium food, since most prepackaged food comes with standard salt volumes added. Moreover, public health experts frequently change their findings on what they advocate and what they castigate and the final choice, on sodium volumes, should be left up to the consumer, rather than the city, in this area. Good eating establishments tend to respond to public demand so let's leave sodium levels at the choice of the consumer rather than... the Mayor!

I am sure Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg's time could be better used in controlling the city's debt, as opposed to monitoring restaurant sodium, in 2010.

[nbs2]

@nbs2 -- FWIW, the Bloomberg plan is voluntary and not legislatory. But also, it's a weighted average across the menu / whatever. Of course, some foods taste really good with an obnoxious amount of salt. And most healthy individuals can have a little extra salt, once in a while. The problem is more that, if the recommended daily allowance of salt is 2000mg or even 2500mg, it's very hard to go in many restaurants and find a dinner meal that has less than 1500mg of sodium in it -- and many of them have 2000 or more. I would be happy with low sodium options and sodium on the menu.

The current proposal does sound good, I guess it's just a bit of fear as to where popular current might take it (calls for high taxation on salt make me uncomfortable). I see a large difference between trans fats and cigarettes, neither of which has any beneficial uses that I am aware of, and salt, which does.

Actually, I don't think there's anything wrong with the chilli powder in most stores -- it just can't be used in isolation. My mamma made all manner of excellent Indian spicy dishes using the chilli powder from Meijer's. :D

Mine went to Safeway (or the Indian store), but amen.

[Tomorrow]

I think it would be great if restaurants and food packaging companies would voluntarily cut way back on salt and sodium in their foods, but I'd rather not see legislation forcing it.

I've been asked by my doctor to limit my salt intake, and I almost never put it on my food, ever in my life, but shopping for anything at the grocery store (frozen and canned foods, in particular) is very difficult if you're watching your sodium intake.

I've been a huge fan of Mrs. Dash for a long time. No, it doesn't taste like salt, but I actually prefer it to salt in almost every case.

[Ugg]

You'd be surprised, honestly. I mean, you can't exist without salt. It's tasty for a reason. But when I was not only cooking more food at home, but carefully monitoring the salt in it, I was quite surprised how tasty food could be without so much salt.

Furthermore, your -- our -- taste for salt is probably... toleranced -- by how much we consume. If you back down slowly, you probably wouldn't even notice it.

Absolutely. Salt is not a requirement for tasty food. Salt also tends to overpower other flavors, or enhance some of them to the point where the rest of the flavors lose their distinction.

I agree. People often use salt when spices, especially good ones—the chili powder from the grocery store doesn't count—would add just as much flavor to a dish.

Certainly salt is an important additive for food, but I've got a whole cupboard full of varying spices, so I use salt less.

That has been the silver lining of less salt use. This year I'm doubling the space in my garden that's devoted to herbs. There's nothing better than fresh herbs on food.


Not the same way that salt does. Salt is a flavor enhancer rather than base flavor - you can bring out the seasoning that have already been applied through the judicious use of salt in the cooking process (adding during cooking goes further than adding at consumption).

The failure has long been on the overuse of salt in prepared foods to reduce the cost of flavoring or seasoning. A voluntary effort to reduce salt is good and mandatory convenient disclosure is better, but mandated reductions is bad - there are several elements of cuisine that merit or necessitate the inclusion of "high" quantities of salt.

I wish I could remember where I read it, but recently I came across this quote in a cooking blog:

"Salt is for people who don't know how to cook."

I think there's a lot of truth there. We've forgotten how to cook and use salt to make up for our ignorance. I would like to see mandatory reductions in the use of salt in food marketed to children as well as anything that claims to be "Heart Healthy". There also needs to be a tax on excessively salt foods. Hypertension costs the American health system billions upon billions of dollars every year. If we're serious about cutting costs, then we need to tackle the biggest offenders.

Can you name "the "several elements of cuisine that merit or necessitate the inclusion of "high" quantities of salt?"

I think it would be great if restaurants and food packaging companies would voluntarily cut way back on salt and sodium in their foods, but I'd rather not see legislation forcing it.

Why?

[Eraserhead]

Can you name "the "several elements of cuisine that merit or necessitate the inclusion of "high" quantities of salt?"

What about anything with Soy Sauce in it? And Chips?

[Tomorrow]

I think it would be great if restaurants and food packaging companies would voluntarily cut way back on salt and sodium in their foods, but I'd rather not see legislation forcing it.

Why?

Not sure which of my statements you're asking about, but I'll try to answer both:

I would like for restaurants and food packaging companies to cut back on salt and sodium because (1) it would make it easier for me to choose foods that my doctors would be happy with, and (2) I don't particularly care for the taste of salt, anyway. If I want to add it, it tastes the same if I add it or if it's cooked into the food.

I would rather not see legislation forcing it because not everyone is on a sodium-restricted diet, and IMO the government has enough to worry about without butting their heads into what chefs and processors decide to cook and sell. As long as there's no deception about how much salt/sodium is included in food for sale, I'd rather not see government intervention; I'd rather just let individuals decide for themselves.

[rdowns]

Why?


Because we really don't need govt. ****ing with our cheesy poofs.

[mkrishnan]

As long as there's no deception about how much salt/sodium is included in food for sale, I'd rather not see government intervention; I'd rather just let individuals decide for themselves.

My problem with this is that there is no choice (except not eating out / eating very few packaged foods). When I've been to restaurants (a very few) that label their sodium, everything is pretty high in sodium. The one Subway sandwich discussed in the article might meet NYC's requirements, but in a meal with chips, it still contains rather a lot of sodium (although, I do have to give credit to Subway -- they have great nutritional information available, and I feel very able to make an informed decision there from that perspective; also, I learned a lot about how to make sandwiches less salt-laden from reading through their in-depth information on condiments, toppings, and bread).

Similarly, when I was on that diet, at the time I really had a thing for cinammon raisin bread, and I would eat it for breakfast frequently. There was a range of sodium levels that generally went from bad to worse -- about 100-250 mg per slice. There was one brand (I think, Sara Lee) thad had 60 mg/slice, and honestly, it tasted as good as most of the other brands. But then the store stopped stocking it, and I was SOL.

All I'm saying there, is that the perception that there is choice in the market, in this specific context of sodium, is illusory.

[Ugg]

What about anything with Soy Sauce in it? And Chips?

Soy sauce and chips are far from haute cuisine. If anything your tongue in cheek response only underlines the idea that cheap food is filled with salt. Sure, even I like slumming once in awhile but cheap food is marketed to the poor. In other words, if you're poor, the food manfs. have a right to stuff you with non-nutritious, salty, sugary, fatty food.


I would rather not see legislation forcing it because not everyone is on a sodium-restricted diet, and IMO the government has enough to worry about without butting their heads into what chefs and processors decide to cook and sell. As long as there's no deception about how much salt/sodium is included in food for sale, I'd rather not see government intervention; I'd rather just let individuals decide for themselves.

However, excessive sodium has no health benefits at all. The whole point of salt is that individuals bodies are trained to want salt because of its historical rarity. When given a choice, people will choose saltier food. Period. Why should food manufacturers be given the right to worsen people's health? We collectively pay for it in the end.

Because we really don't need govt. ****ing with our cheesy poofs.

Umm, give me a poof coated in brie!

[Tomorrow]

When given a choice, people will choose saltier food. Period.

Yeah, except for the people who don't choose saltier food. I've been wishing for decades that someone will make a low-salt soy sauce, as opposed to reduced salt. I don't add salt to anything I cook. I add it to water when I boil pasta because it raises the temperature of the boiling water and results in pasta that's less gummy. I usually add some to guacamole when I make it myself. Otherwise I prefer not to use it at all.

[Zombie Acorn]

Yeah, except for the people who don't choose saltier food. I've been wishing for decades that someone will make a low-salt soy sauce, as opposed to reduced salt. I don't add salt to anything I cook. I add it to water when I boil pasta because it raises the temperature of the boiling water and results in pasta that's less gummy. I usually add some to guacamole when I make it myself. Otherwise I prefer not to use it at all.

On a side note I had no idea why salt was added to boiling water for pasta, I always just did it. :D

[mkrishnan]

On a side note I had no idea why salt was added to boiling water for pasta, I always just did it. :D

I thought it was a "wives' tale," but it does work! :D

Tomorrow, you really don't even salt potatoes when you make them? Impressive. Those starchy foods are usually the troublesome ones -- bread pretty much needs at least a little salt. Potatoes are not that tolerable without salt or something that has salt in it (cheese or creams that have sodium in them, etc).

[nbs2]

I think there's a lot of truth there. We've forgotten how to cook and use salt to make up for our ignorance. I would like to see mandatory reductions in the use of salt in food marketed to children as well as anything that claims to be "Heart Healthy". There also needs to be a tax on excessively salt foods. Hypertension costs the American health system billions upon billions of dollars every year. If we're serious about cutting costs, then we need to tackle the biggest offenders.

Define excessively.

Can you name "the "several elements of cuisine that merit or necessitate the inclusion of "high" quantities of salt?"

Anything that has been brined will contain more salt than it would have otherwise. Any sort of pickled food item will be high in sodium. Fried foods tend to be high in salt, which means heavily targeting traditional foods from the southern US (in addition to cuisine from around the world). Preserved meats (including traditional delicacies and not just the ValueDays bologna) are often salted, depending on the preservation method.

As for merit, that is a decision of personal taste. I prefer not to add salt to foods I eat, but I have come to realize that moderate consumption of salt can unite flavors in a way that no other substance does. A pretzel tastes better salty than it does sweet or plain. Preserved meats, such as pepperoni merit salt. You assault soy sauce and chips, as not being haute cuisine, but apparently choose not to consider the ability of soy sauce to serve as an ingredient in cuisines of much of Eastern Asia.

I must ask, what low sodium/sugar/fat/cholesterol elements make up your "comfort food?"

[flopticalcube]

I must ask, what low sodium/sugar/fat/cholesterol elements make up your "comfort food?"
People shouldn't really be reaching for food to comfort themselves. Its a bad habit that needs to be broken. I don't believe anyone is advocating the complete removal of salt, just its reduction in prepared foods. I understand from a culinary point of view that certain dishes require salt to achieve a certain flavour but maybe people should be eating less of these dishes. Nothing worthwhile is easy.

[Gelfin]

We've forgotten how to cook and use salt to make up for our ignorance.

For a certain definition of "we," yes.

I find it almost impossible to eat at a T.G.I.Applechili's sort of place anymore because everything tastes like salt. Those sorts of places prioritize cost, preservation, transportation and skill-free final preparation over food quality, all of which means "salt == flavor." Get outside big cities and that's all you can find, and thus all people know as restaurant food.

I don't know about NYC, but around here a few reviews saying "all the food tastes like salt" would kill a restaurant in a heartbeat. Local places employing professional chefs probably don't have nearly the salt problem of national chains.

Also, as a hint, I imagine Bloomberg is not outlawing salt shakers. You can put it in, but you can't take it back out.

[fivepoint]

More big government.
More nanny-state.
More liberals and progressives trying to control how we all live our lives.

You had better get used to it folks, because this is exactly the kind of crap we're going to see more and more of when the healthcare bill passes. You think they try and control your lives too much now? Imagine how easy it will be to justify when they can say "yeah, well, if I'm paying for your healthcare, you will follow by my rules."

This is exactly why personal liberty and freedom (as opposed to a monolithic nanny state which breeds dependency and crushes personal responsibility) was so important to our founding fathers. They knew that power bred corruption.

Nobody seems to care when the liberties of others are being stripped away, but when no one comes to your aid as the freedoms you cherish are crushed under the massive weight of the Federal Bureaucracy... don't come crying to me and those like me who've been warning about this for years.

Nationalized healthcare is yet another attempt (although propagated by many with the best of intentions) to expand government's control over our lives. At some point you will all realize what a big mistake this all is... at some point the freedoms being stripped will be ones you yourself hold dear. Yesterday it was smoking in your own building. Today, it's salt and whether or not two men in love can marry each other. What is it tomorrow, and how fast will nationalized healthcare speed up the process?

Disgusting.

What can you do to help? Don't support nationalized healthcare. Don't vote for any more liberals/progressives. Don't vote for any Republicans with a history of voting for similar policies. Be principled in your stance against all types of governmental aggression... not just those that affect YOU TODAY.

[yg17]

More big government.
More nanny-state.
More liberals and progressives trying to control how we all live our lives.


Michael Bloomberg is hardly a progressive liberal. Get your facts straight.

[bobber205]

Michael Bloomberg is hardly a progressive liberal. Get your facts straight.

I would respect their opinions of less government is they were consistent and wanted less government even when it was detrimental to themselves (like gay marriage etc).

[Eraserhead]

Soy sauce and chips are far from haute cuisine. If anything your tongue in cheek response only underlines the idea that cheap food is filled with salt.

It wasn't tongue in cheek, they were just the first examples that came into my head. Chips can be served at classy restaurants if they are good quality.

but apparently choose not to consider the ability of soy sauce to serve as an ingredient in cuisines of much of Eastern Asia.

Exactly, soy sauce is an essential for east asian cuisine. I'm sure the nicest restaurants in any major city in east asia will have it on the table. AFAIR the nice restaurants I went to in Shanghai and Beijing had it on the table.

Anything that has been brined will contain more salt than it would have otherwise. Any sort of pickled food item will be high in sodium. Fried foods tend to be high in salt, which means heavily targeting traditional foods from the southern US (in addition to cuisine from around the world). Preserved meats (including traditional delicacies and not just the ValueDays bologna) are often salted, depending on the preservation method.

That's true too.

Tomorrow, you really don't even salt potatoes when you make them?

I've never salted potatoes, it makes them black for starters.

[mkrishnan]

I've never salted potatoes, it makes them black for starters.

Hmmm, fascinating. They're pretty much the only thing I explicity salt, in the sense that I curry potatoes and then, when they're finished baking or frying, I sprinkle salt on them.

[Zombie Acorn]

I don't salt potatoes, but I am sure I more then make up for the unhealthiness factor with butter.

[hulugu]

...Actually, I don't think there's anything wrong with the chilli powder in most stores -- it just can't be used in isolation. My mamma made all manner of excellent Indian spicy dishes using the chilli powder from Meijer's. :D

It's because your mother is such a great cook, but I do find a huge difference between the red chili powder I buy in Hatch, NM and what's in the grocery store. Fresher spices are generally more flavorful.

Yeah, except for the people who don't choose saltier food. I've been wishing for decades that someone will make a low-salt soy sauce, as opposed to reduced salt. I don't add salt to anything I cook. I add it to water when I boil pasta because it raises the temperature of the boiling water and results in pasta that's less gummy. I usually add some to guacamole when I make it myself. Otherwise I prefer not to use it at all.

Some salt is great for cooking. I think the trouble lies when salt, especially in large doses, is used to create or add flavor that overrides the actual flavor of the food.

I had a roommate who, without tasting a bite, would dump salt on everything he ate. That's not salting to taste, that's behavior.

[Ugg]

All I'm saying there, is that the perception that there is choice in the market, in this specific context of sodium, is illusory.

Exactly. When I go to the grocery store, at least I'm able to read labels and make choices. However, my choices are very few and as a result, most of the food that I prepare is fresh. If I were to totally rely on processed food, I'd be dead before I turn 50.

As you mentioned, labels rarely exist outside of the grocery store. Sure, Subway has some info, but anywhere else you have to dig deep. So, in the end, going out to eat is basically a crap shoot, and nine times out of ten, I'll be eating something that has way more salt than is necessary for cooking or for that matter even flavor.




Anything that has been brined will contain more salt than it would have otherwise. Any sort of pickled food item will be high in sodium. Fried foods tend to be high in salt, which means heavily targeting traditional foods from the southern US (in addition to cuisine from around the world). Preserved meats (including traditional delicacies and not just the ValueDays bologna) are often salted, depending on the preservation method.

As for merit, that is a decision of personal taste. I prefer not to add salt to foods I eat, but I have come to realize that moderate consumption of salt can unite flavors in a way that no other substance does. A pretzel tastes better salty than it does sweet or plain. Preserved meats, such as pepperoni merit salt. You assault soy sauce and chips, as not being haute cuisine, but apparently choose not to consider the ability of soy sauce to serve as an ingredient in cuisines of much of Eastern Asia.

I must ask, what low sodium/sugar/fat/cholesterol elements make up your "comfort food?"

With the exception of southern fried food, of which there is absolutely no defense, all of the foods you mention are accents or starters or ingredients of meals but not meals unto themselves. A pickle a day probably won't give me a heart attack but a bucket of fried chicken will.

Are you suggesting that since fried foods are a necessary part of southern cuisine, that we should just sit back in silence as the health of southerners gets even more dire? What about the Native Americans dying of diabetes? Don't you think that some sort of intervention is maybe a good idea before the south turns into some big blob of human fat and the reservations become a wasteland of discarded insulin needles?

The right is only too willing to oppose Palin's "death panel" and Terry Schiavo's removal from life support but they sure don't seem to care when vast swaths of Americans are slowly committing suicide.

You can't have it both ways.


I'm not really sure what you mean by comfort food. The stuff I eat when I'm tired and too lazy to cook? The stuff I eat when I'm sick?.....

For a certain definition of "we," yes.

I find it almost impossible to eat at a T.G.I.Applechili's sort of place anymore because everything tastes like salt. Those sorts of places prioritize cost, preservation, transportation and skill-free final preparation over food quality, all of which means "salt == flavor." Get outside big cities and that's all you can find, and thus all people know as restaurant food.

I hate traveling for that very reason. Food in most of America is a parody of real food. Repackaged by corporate America to appeal to the majority while slowly killing them.

[hulugu]

...I hate traveling for that very reason. Food in most of America is a parody of real food. Repackaged by corporate America to appeal to the majority while slowly killing them.

There's definitely a swath of ersatz food in America, centered around the Interstates, strip-malls, and subdivisions, but you can almost always find good local food—not necessarily great for you, but at least new and interesting and separate from the corporate food of TGI-Apple-Chilis' or McBurgerWendys.

This, of course, requires research and time, which isn't always available. And it requires finding someone who's from the area and actually likes food, but it can be done.

[Zombie Acorn]

Cook unprocessed fresh food if that is what you want. I am not going to listen to someone bitch about the convenience of a pre-processed and repackaged meal because they are too lazy to cook. You have choices, I see plenty of veggies/fruits on sale even at walmart. Cook your own meats and you pretty much have a combination for anything you want. If you don't want salt from mcdonalds/applebees whatever, don't eat there.

[CorvusCamenarum]

Cook unprocessed fresh food if that is what you want. I am not going to listen to someone bitch about the convenience of a pre-processed and repackaged meal because they are too lazy to cook. You have choices, I see plenty of veggies/fruits on sale even at walmart. Cook your own meats and you pretty much have a combination for anything you want. If you don't want salt from mcdonalds/applebees whatever, don't eat there.

You're forgetting that here in America, we want others to make our choices for us so we can bitch and moan about it later.

As to the rest of your post, +1.

[zap2]

Make sense to me!


(As I sit here eat lots and lots of sun flower seeds!)


Government pushing company to cut salt levels down isn't a bad thing, but it would be bad if they stop allow citizens to add salt to what they wish.

[Counterfit]

I wish I could remember where I read it, but recently I came across this quote in a cooking blog:

"Salt is for people who don't know how to cook."

I think there's a lot of truth there. We've forgotten how to cook and use salt to make up for our ignorance.

I guess Alton Brown can't cook...

[Ugg]

I guess Alton Brown can't cook...

The point of the quote and my stance on the issue is that salt is used in place of other flavorings. Not only that, but industrial food is increasingly bland and needs all the help it can get when it comes to flavor.

The problem is that Americans consume 2 to 3 times more salt than the body needs. We can either wait until we all come down with hypertension and then got to big pharma and ask them for a pill, or we can cut down our salt intake and reduce our national health care bill at the same time.

It's not effing rocket science...

[flopticalcube]

Its not just processed food these days. Hot house tomatoes have no flavour, IMO. Many vegetables and fruits found at local supermarkets seem to be devoid of the rich flavours and aromas I had become accustom to growing my own. Industrial scale farming has drawbacks, I guess.

[Zombie Acorn]

Its not just processed food these days. Hot house tomatoes have no flavour, IMO. Many vegetables and fruits found at local supermarkets seem to be devoid of the rich flavours and aromas I had become accustom to growing my own. Industrial scale farming has drawbacks, I guess.

Its the way that they are processed/shipped/etc. I notice it gets worse when the plants are out of season. (I rarely buy veggies though during that time of year as there is plenty of people selling plus my family all have gardens).

[hulugu]

I guess Alton Brown can't cook...

Huh?

Alton Brown uses salt in many of his recipes, sometimes as much as 1.5 tablespoons, but that's for a dish that will serve four or more people. In comparison, processed food often contains the same amount of salt in each serving.

[LethalWolfe]

The problem is that Americans consume 2 to 3 times more salt than the body needs. We can either wait until we all come down with hypertension and then got to big pharma and ask them for a pill, or we can cut down our salt intake and reduce our national health care bill at the same time.

It's not effing rocket science...
It's not rocket science, but I think the sticking point is should we take it upon ourselves to take care of our bodies or should we wait until government mandates give us no choice but to take care of our bodies?


Lethal

[NT1440]

It's not rocket science, but I think the sticking point is should we take it upon ourselves to take care of our bodies or should we wait until government mandates give us no choice but to take care of our bodies?


Lethal

What are you supposed to do when the majority of food sold in grocery stores have ridiculous amounts of salt in them? I know that my family can't afford to go out of our way to buy healthier food, because it is considerably more expensive. That, and factor in that most people don't even know what is in their food or how its made and all I can see is a massive problem with very few solutions for the general public.

[CorvusCamenarum]

Its the way that they are processed/shipped/etc. I notice it gets worse when the plants are out of season. (I rarely buy veggies though during that time of year as there is plenty of people selling plus my family all have gardens).

I'll start this off by saying that I can't stand pineapple. When I was in Costa Rica a couple years ago, I was eating pineapple almost every day, and loving it. Why? When pineapple is harvested with shipping it somewhere [overseas] in mind, they pick it when it's only half ripe so it will keep long enough to get to market. Conversely, the pineapple I was eating down there was fully ripe, wonderfully juicy and sweet. Not at all like what I was used to in this country. I still can't stand pineapple here, but if I ever find myself in a place that grows it locally.

The next time you're in your local supermarket in the produce section, check the labels for points of origin. It might surprise you.

[SactoGuy18]

I think the biggest reason why up until now there was so much salt in food was because it was a cheap way to extend the shelf life of foods. We're all forgetting our history: in ancient times, salt was just as valuable as gold in many societies because salt was the ONLY way to preserve meats for longer periods of time. That's why sausages with salt content and "jerky" form of meats preserved with salt date from ancient times.

However, with modern food preservation methods, we can now drastically cut back on needing so much salt, and as such I do welcome cutting back on salt levels in "eaten out" foods. :)

[mkrishnan]

^^ I don't think anyone's forgetting that....

The WSJ has an article about this today... I'll link you to the whole thing (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703585704574650562683895666.html?mod=rss_Today's_Most_Popular), but they make a couple of comments that back up the idea that gradual salt reductions are not noticed by consumers.

By next summer, ConAgra Food Inc.'s Chef Boyardee canned pasta will have decreased its sodium by about 35% over the course of five years without a word on the package. Campbell Soup Co.'s original flavor of V8 100% vegetable juice also silently dropped its sodium by 32% over eight years.

...

In October, ConAgra said that by 2015 it would lower the sodium level in about 80% of its products by an average of 20%. Sara Lee Corp. made a similar commitment in December.

Campbell Soup, which has focused broadly on reducing sodium for at least a decade, says it has already reduced sodium in the top-selling products in all its categories by nearly 24% since 2001.

Food company executives say that gradually lowering salt has helped ensure that consumers keep buying the products. Sales of V8 juice have held up well, says a Campbell Soup spokeswoman.

So V8 is a great example of a substantial sodium reduction that doesn't seem to bother consumers much at all (who of course, to the point some made above, can still salt their V8 all they want). Now, I don't really care for V8, primarily because I, even as much as I love salt, always found it way too salty, but still. They don't comment on Campbell's soup performance, but from what I can see, they are actually doing okay for themselves as well.

[Rodimus Prime]

I'll start this off by saying that I can't stand pineapple. When I was in Costa Rica a couple years ago, I was eating pineapple almost every day, and loving it. Why? When pineapple is harvested with shipping it somewhere [overseas] in mind, they pick it when it's only half ripe so it will keep long enough to get to market. Conversely, the pineapple I was eating down there was fully ripe, wonderfully juicy and sweet. Not at all like what I was used to in this country. I still can't stand pineapple here, but if I ever find myself in a place that grows it locally.

The next time you're in your local supermarket in the produce section, check the labels for points of origin. It might surprise you.

you can grow them yourselves. My brother planted the top of a pineapple we got from the grocery store a few years ago and it finally flowered and produced a fruit in the last year. It was the best pineapple i have ever had.

Now we did nothing to really take care of the plant other than set it out in a pot and if it is lucky the plant got moved when a freeze came threw. Oddly enough it flowered shortly after a hurricane came threw. Either way it was a damn good pineapple.

[flopticalcube]

I think the biggest reason why up until now there was so much salt in food was because it was a cheap way to extend the shelf life of foods. We're all forgetting our history: in ancient times, salt was just as valuable as gold in many societies because salt was the ONLY way to preserve meats for longer periods of time. That's why sausages with salt content and "jerky" form of meats preserved with salt date from ancient times.

However, with modern food preservation methods, we can now drastically cut back on needing so much salt, and as such I do welcome cutting back on salt levels in "eaten out" foods. :)
Remember the old saying: "If bacteria can't eat it, neither should you."

[Rt&Dzine]

Remember the old saying: "If bacteria can't eat it, neither should you."

I've never heard that. I like it.

[splitpea]

I'd conjecture that a primary reason there's so much salt in packaged / canned foods as well as fast food and even chain restaurant recipes, is to mask either lack of other flavorings, poor quality ingredients, or the flavors of other preservatives.

Just one more reason to cook your own.

[mkrishnan]

I'd conjecture that a primary reason there's so much salt in packaged / canned foods as well as fast food and even chain restaurant recipes, is to mask either lack of other flavorings, poor quality ingredients, or the flavors of other preservatives.

I've never really seen compelling evidence that independent restaurants are any better than chain restaurants when it comes to sodium. The ones I've seen who advertise their sodium levels certainly aren't. So I'm not sure about this hypothesis.

[Ugg]

I've never really seen compelling evidence that independent restaurants are any better than chain restaurants when it comes to sodium. The ones I've seen who advertise their sodium levels certainly aren't. So I'm not sure about this hypothesis.

I have to agree. I'm sure there are local restaurants where salt, sugar and fat are given a backseat but unless they prepare everything from scratch, they're still at the mercy of agribusiness.

Yesterday I had lunch at a small, local sustainable cafe/bakery. The ham in my croque monsieur was so salty that I had to pull it out and just eat the cheese.

The blackberry pastry I had though was perfect. Low salt and just enough sugar to accent the tartness of the blackberries.

Eating out is a crapshoot.

[splitpea]

I've never really seen compelling evidence that independent restaurants are any better than chain restaurants when it comes to sodium. The ones I've seen who advertise their sodium levels certainly aren't. So I'm not sure about this hypothesis.

Perhaps not; it also depends a lot on the restaurant (in NYC you're almost guaranteed to get a much better-cooked meal from an independent neighborhood restaurant than from any chain).

We could argue that point, but really I meant to point out that sodium really does mask the flavor of low-quality ingredients and preservatives in fast food and processed packaged foods.

[mkrishnan]

Perhaps not; it also depends a lot on the restaurant (in NYC you're almost guaranteed to get a much better-cooked meal from an independent neighborhood restaurant than from any chain).

We could argue that point, but really I meant to point out that sodium really does mask the flavor of low-quality ingredients and preservatives in fast food and processed packaged foods.

Oh, that's true -- I don't disagree... just that it's used heavily (and sometimes recklessly) even by the great independent restaurants we love. You know the old Six Sigma saying -- you do not value what you do not measure. No one knows how much salt most of these dishes have.

Incidentally, in Chicago (and Grand Rapids as well), yes, the best food is always at independents and local restaurants. I've mostly given up on chain restaurants, aside from occasional fast food indulgences. Now, if that best food can be low sodium, better yet.