Touchscreen Accuracy: iPhone Compares Favorably to Other Smartphones

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/11/touchscreen-accuracy-iphone-compares-favorably-to-other-smartphones/)

In a report (http://labs.moto.com/diy-touchscreen-analysis/) published late last week and gaining significant attention today, MOTO shares the results of some simple testing conducted on the iPhone, Motorola Droid, HTC Droid Eris, and Google Nexus One, assessing the accuracy of the touchscreens on the devices. According to the study, the iPhone's touchscreen performs relatively well, offering precise straight-line tracking under both light and medium pressure, although it does exhibit loss of sensitivity at the screen's edges.

In comparison, the Droid Eris and Nexus One, which share a touch controller chip, perform well under medium pressure, including at the edges, but falter somewhat under light pressure. Motorola's Droid, however, exhibits significant waviness and "stairstepping" under both light and heavy pressure, indicating inaccuracies in the tracking process.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2010/01/11/120016-touchscreen_testing_500.jpg

The testing procedure simply involves installing a drawing program on the device and then slowly tracing straight lines across the device's screen to assess how well the system is able to track finger movements.

MOTO has also published a video demonstrating how the testing was performed, although the video shows an original iPhone while the presented results include a newer-generation iPhone. The Nexus One is also not included in the video presentation, as it was unavailable for the initial round of testing.



Article Link: Touchscreen Accuracy: iPhone Compares Favorably to Other Smartphones (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/11/touchscreen-accuracy-iphone-compares-favorably-to-other-smartphones/)

[BeachChair]

Theres a bunch of fallacies to this test. Differences in painting software between devices, and how the touch input is interpreted and interpolated.

[Michael73]

I've never had too many problems with the touch screen except for one persistent problem. For some reason, when I'm on the phone with someone I have a hard time enabling the speaker. It's extremely finicky...it's always been that way and in just that use case. I cannot use the tip of my finger, only the bottom (larger) part where my finger print is. Anyone else have the same experiences?

[Consultant]

Theres a bunch of fallacies to this test. Differences in painting software between devices, and how the touch input is interpreted and interpolated.

Nope. Read the details.

Grrr submitted the story yesterday to MB...

[Kilamite]

Theres a bunch of fallacies to this test. Differences in painting software between devices, and how the touch input is interpreted and interpolated.

I'm curious as to how the Motorola has perfectly wavey lines... I'd have thought they'd be not straight, but not such a perfect pattern like that.

[itcomesinwaves]

Theres a bunch of fallacies to this test. Differences in painting software between devices, and how the touch input is interpreted and interpolated.

It's true. You'd think that someone could use the same program on all 3 android phones. Are there any cross platform (iPhone/Android) drawing apps?

[cmaier]

In other news, iPhone also has the lowest drag coefficient.

[Consultant]

I'm curious as to how the Motorola has perfectly wavey lines... I'd have thought they'd be not straight, but not such a perfect pattern like that.

I've tested my iPhone 3gs. Same result as the 2007 iPhone.

It'll be easy to replicate the test by anyone for the other phones. Therefore do you think they would falsify the result and put their reputation at risk?

[itcomesinwaves]

I'm curious as to how the Motorola has perfectly wavey lines... I'd have thought they'd be not straight, but not such a perfect pattern like that.

Just guessing, because I don't know the tech behind it, but it seems like the drawing recognition system (whether it be hardware or software) has a problem with diagonal lines. So when you try to draw a diagonal line it attempts to autocorrect and 'waves' back and forth between horizontal and vertical...

[ChazUK]

What's with the loss of sensitivity at the edge of the iPhone? At medium pressure there is not much in it but it seems the Droid Eris (which is basically a re branded Hero) and Nexus One has better edge sensitivity.

Despite the test I can't say I've ever had an issue with the touchscreen on either the iPhone 3G or my Hero. Both work fine.

[bobsentell]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)

Fascinating, but this story is at least four days old.
In any case, this problem can be fixed on the other devices with a single chip replacement. Hardly an example of superior Apple engineering.
But the next time I have a need to draw diagonal lines, I'll keep this under consideration.

[DipDog3]

I don't think anyone should really argue about the iPhone's Touchscreen.

It is very good, I don't see how it could be improved.

[cmaier]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)

Fascinating, but this story is at least four days old.
In any case, this problem can be fixed on the other devices with a single chip replacement. Hardly an example of superior Apple engineering.
But the next time I have a need to draw diagonal lines, I'll keep this under consideration.

LOL. Which chip?

[GenesisST]

I've never had too many problems with the touch screen except for one persistent problem. For some reason, when I'm on the phone with someone I have a hard time enabling the speaker. It's extremely finicky...it's always been that way and in just that use case. I cannot use the tip of my finger, only the bottom (larger) part where my finger print is. Anyone else have the same experiences?

Now that you mention it, I have the same thing. I don't think it is related to the touch screen, though. My guess is that they're doing something in the UI thread that they shouldn't and makes is a bit non-responsive.

Still annoying...

[*LTD*]

So Apple got the touch technology right. Over two years ago.

Hardly surprising.

[saMac]

What's with the loss of sensitivity at the edge of the iPhone? At medium pressure there is not much in it but it seems the Droid Eris (which is basically a re branded Hero) and Nexus One has better edge sensitivity.

probably due to the device's calculating the centroid of the fingerpad contact area. when the higher-pressure (thus larger) contact area starts moving off the sensing boundary, the shape and size of the contact area change.

[aristotle]

It's true. You'd think that someone could use the same program on all 3 android phones. Are there any cross platform (iPhone/Android) drawing apps?
Sorry but the app has very little to do with how the OS is interpreting the sensor data and returning the data back to through the API.

You could argue that the the Android API has issues but the problems appear to be be hardware and driver related.

More excuses from Android fanboys.

[John Dillinger]

The 'lack' of sensitivity on my hero/droid eris is actually something i PREFER compared to my iphone... its not like were talking capacitive nvs resistive, but i much prefer the smoothness/requiring slightly added weight when scrolling... iphone feels flimsier. plus android scrolls through pages WAY faster than iphone... been proven many times. Results dont surprise me:) What are others who have tried both thoughts??

[cmaier]

The 'lack' of sensitivity on my hero/droid eris is actually something i PREFER compared to my iphone... its not like were talking capacitive nvs resistive, but i much prefer the smoothness/requiring slightly added weight when scrolling... iphone feels flimsier. plus android scrolls through pages WAY faster than iphone... been proven many times. Results dont surprise me:) What are others who have tried both thoughts??

Wow. Now that's fanboy-style-justification going on right there. I doubt the faster scrolling has anything to do with the gross inaccuracy of movement tracking.

[ChazUK]

You could argue that the the Android API has issues but the problems appear to be be hardware and driver related.

This seems highly logical as you can see the discrepancies between both HTC phones and the Motorola.

[GenesisST]

Sorry but the app has very little to do with how the OS is interpreting the sensor data and returning the data back to through the API.


Totally agree here.

You could argue that the the Android API has issues but the problems appear to be be hardware and driver related.

First thing: I'm an iPhone user.

I work on Android projects theses and although I really like the Android SDK, I've yet to see a really good phone that supports it. Note the soft's fault in any case. The touch screens I've seen are not up to par with the iPhone's,
but I never cleaned my dev phones... ever...

I would love to see Android run on a iPhone, though.
(Start crucifying me...)

More excuses from Android fanboys.

I hate fanboys... Mac fanboys the 2nd most... (linux FB being the worst in my opinion) and I love my mac...

[/dev/toaster]

I have played around with a lot of touch screens including the droid and I can tell you that the iPhone is still far better. Especially when it comes down to typing on the virtual keyboard.

[kdarling]

The reverse could be true as well:

The other screens could be _more_ sensitive (with higher resolution) and thus are showing the actual oscillation of a finger slowly moving along different surfaces... similar to what happens with fingerprints on the rim of a glass making a tone.

Not enough info in this obvious publicity ploy.

[miketcool]

Wait, what did this test prove?

A) One touchscreen is more sensitive then another by showing correct lines.

or

B) One handset uses a lower sampling rate and produces lines that appear more straight but are less accurate.

Wouldn't we need a "mechanical" finger to test this? I draw diagonal lines in several of my Android games and never get the stair stepping, even at slow speed. I have also seen things dragged all the way to the edges of a screen on the iPhone. I don't find this particular test to be very accurate.

[WestonHarvey1]

The reverse could be true as well:

The other screens could be _more_ sensitive (with higher resolution) and thus are showing the actual oscillation of a finger slowly moving along different surfaces... similar to what happens with fingerprints on the rim of a glass making a tone.

Not enough info in this obvious publicity ploy.

I don't see how those could be the actual oscillation of a finger making a good faith attempt at drawing a straight line, unless the tester has tardive dyskinesia or Parkinson's.

[cmaier]

I don't see how those could be the actual oscillation of a finger making a good faith attempt at drawing a straight line, unless the tester has tardive dyskinesia or Parkinson's.

You mean you don't see how evidence that the droid phones have the worst finger tracking is actually proof that they have the best finger tracking? :)

[jeznav]

Could it be the capacitance's grid array sensors(nodes) are much to wide apart(dot pitch) than the ones on the iPhone? The Touchscreen's resolution perhaps is too low to interpolate between contact nodes thus it generates aliased xy data points. The drawing software has to spline interpolate between those received touch points that's why you see wavy lines as the average area of the fingertip approach the proximity of the contact nodes. Imagine walking diagonaly on a 1' floor tiles vs 1". There are more points to interpolate
from thus wavy lines seem non appearant. So I don't think it's the drawing app as it uses the OS touch controller API. It could be hardware/chip, driver related.

[cmaier]

Could it be the capacitance's grid array sensors(nodes) are much to wide apart(dot pitch) than the ones on the iPhone? The Touchscreen's resolution perhaps is too low to interpolate between contact nodes thus it generates aliased xy data points. The drawing software has to spline interpolate between those received touch points that's why you see wavy lines as the average area of the fingertip approach the proximity of the contact nodes. Imagine walking diagonaly on a 1' floor tiles vs 1". There are more points to interpolate
from thus wavy lines seem non appearant. So I don't think it's the drawing app as it uses the OS touch controller API.

I dunno - to me it looks like something in the software stack (probably at the driver level) where it is trying to manhattanize movement for some reason.

[Sbrocket]

The reverse could be true as well:

The other screens could be _more_ sensitive (with higher resolution) and thus are showing the actual oscillation of a finger slowly moving along different surfaces... similar to what happens with fingerprints on the rim of a glass making a tone.

Not enough info in this obvious publicity ploy.

If you actually watch the video rather than trying to make excuses, you can see that the tester is clearly making a straight line along the touchscreen of each device. Its a bit of a stretch to claim that his finger is making very regular waveforms and with some of the heights of those waves, you would be able to tell from the video if he was trying to rig the tests.

In addition, the fact that the oscillations are exacerbated when a lighter touch (and thus a weaker signal with which to produce a good signal-to-noise ratio) only helps to confirm the conclusions drawn.

And whether or not the problem is with hardware alone, software alone, or a combination of both is wholly irrelevant if we're only considering which devices and OSes can most accurately reproduce the input from the user.

It is certainly possible that the drawing programs are doing some sort of filtering of their own but unlikely, in my opinion anyway, given that the lines aren't snapping to horizontal/vertical or something. The test would definitely be enhanced by the group producing their own testing software for each OS which directly used the touch events and touch coordinates provided to the application from the OS.

[cal6n]

The reverse could be true as well:

The other screens could be _more_ sensitive (with higher resolution) and thus are showing the actual oscillation of a finger slowly moving along different surfaces... similar to what happens with fingerprints on the rim of a glass making a tone.

Not enough info in this obvious publicity ploy.

Sorry. Is that a joke or a serious attempt to explain the poor performance of the majority of phones tested? I'd really like to know.

If it is a joke, then you ought to consider adding a smiley. If it isn't, then I feel truly sorry for anyone close to you...

(and no, I'm not joking)

[kdarling]

I just want to get the facts. And, as adults are wont to do, I bring up possibilities to encourage thinking and discussion. Kneejerk responses and blind belief don't count. My daily job entails going down multiple theoretical and empirical paths to determine the truth.

In addtion, I don't like publicity ploys. They're all too common these days. The source company themselves say they actually use more scientific methods to check touchscreens, and yet they published the roughest method results, because it makes for better headlines.

It's like last month when Gizmodo checked just two locations in all of Manhattan for a couple of minutes, and declared ATT to have the highest speeds in NYC. Their "report" was all about getting publicity and website traffic, not about good analysis, no matter how much people try to defend it.

I've worked with capacitive screens for about twenty years now. That's probably two decades more than anyone else in this thread. There are lots of factors to consider.

As I read Apple's patent, I see that they use lots of filtering to determine the midpoint of touches. That alone could make their screen _less_ sensitive. However, first I want to do some testing myself to see.

I was not declaring anything at this time... only giving out thoughts to persue.

[aristotle]

Sorry. Is that a joke or a serious attempt to explain the poor performance of the majority of phones tested? I'd really like to know.

If it is a joke, then you ought to consider adding a smiley. If it isn't, then I feel truly sorry for anyone close to you...

(and no, I'm not joking)
Pay no mind to kdarling. That user has an "anything but apple" policy. I would not be surprised if kdarling is somehow connected with one of the other handset makers and view the iPhone as a threat to their livelihood.

If you look at their tag line: "Somewhere designing devices and UIs for over thirty years". That would point to that conclusion.

[Consultant]

The reverse could be true as well:

The other screens could be _more_ sensitive (with higher resolution) and thus are showing the actual oscillation of a finger slowly moving along different surfaces... similar to what happens with fingerprints on the rim of a glass making a tone.

Not enough info in this obvious publicity ploy.

You can't be more wrong.

Artifacts are not due to the knockoffs being more sensitive.

I don't see how those could be the actual oscillation of a finger making a good faith attempt at drawing a straight line, unless the tester has tardive dyskinesia or Parkinson's.

Exactly.

[g3signal]

So the iPhone used a stunt finger and the Droids didn't?

[miketcool]

Pay no mind to kdarling. That user has an "anything but apple" policy. I would not be surprised if kdarling is somehow connected with one of the other handset makers and view the iPhone as a threat to their livelihood.

If you look at their tag line: "Somewhere designing devices and UIs for over thirty years". That would point to that conclusion.

Right, that is the type of response that is helping the scientific community. If you do not like a point of view, instead of finding a reason to counter it intelligently, you dismiss it and then attack the person. Classy.

He was simply stating that if your device were too sensitive, it could be picking up too much vibration and movement. Like the slightest changes in the human body and trying to interpret all of it. This is why a mechanical finger would produce much more satisfying results as there would be less variables (screen coatings, temperature settings, vibrations, ergonomics, etc).

The entire idea that a touch screen might be interpolating based on less sensitive data is entirely plausible. Actually having a test that finds the real facts, not just guesses them based off of a quick test (further testing is needed) could really help both handset makers and developers.

Dismissing someone's credibility because their opinions don't match yours is petty and unhelpful. Not exactly "Think Different" is it?

[cal6n]

Right, that is the type of response that is helping the scientific community. If you do not like a point of view, instead of finding a reason to counter it intelligently, you dismiss it and then attack the person. Classy.

He was simply stating that if your device were too sensitive, it could be picking up too much vibration and movement. Like the slightest changes in the human body and trying to interpret all of it. This is why a mechanical finger would produce much more satisfying results as there would be less variables (screen coatings, temperature settings, vibrations, ergonomics, etc).

The entire idea that a touch screen might be interpolating based on less sensitive data is entirely plausible. Actually having a test that finds the real facts, not just guesses them based off of a quick test (further testing is needed) could really help both handset makers and developers.

Dismissing someone's credibility because their opinions don't match yours is petty and unhelpful. Not exactly "Think Different" is it?

I agree.

However, dismissing someone's argument because they are palpably talking out of their arse is entirely appropriate!

[Consultant]

Sorry. Is that a joke or a serious attempt to explain the poor performance of the majority of phones tested? I'd really like to know.

If it is a joke, then you ought to consider adding a smiley. If it isn't, then I feel truly sorry for anyone close to you...

(and no, I'm not joking)

No, the person is not joking.

Too bad the forum doesn't have any tosser alerts.

Right, that is the type of response that is helping the scientific community. If you do not like a point of view, instead of finding a reason to counter it intelligently, you dismiss it and then attack the person. Classy.

Most people are up for intellectual discussions. Saying a cat is a rock isn't a discussion, it's insanity.

MOTO has mentioned the scientific reason for the test.

[KnightWRX]

So Apple got the touch technology right. Over two years ago.

Hardly surprising.

Right ? The iPhone fails horribly on the edge of the screen in this test. The lines curve and there's nothing showing up a few mm off all 4 edges.

Read the test results, the curve in the iPhone lines is not done by the finger, they moved in a straight line. The curves are put there by the iPhone.

So the verdict is more along the lines of : No one has gotten touch technology right yet.

[miketcool]

I agree.

However, dismissing someone's argument because they are palpably talking out of their arse is entirely appropriate!

I'd have to say the argument is valid. The curving lines along the edges of the iPhone screen could be caused by such an interpolation of sensors.

This technology has much room to grow, and it will be interesting how the balance of touch input and sensitivity is reached in future touch devices with SPECIFIC tasks.

[hexor]

Right ? The iPhone fails horribly on the edge of the screen in this test. The lines curve and there's nothing showing up a few mm off all 4 edges.

Read the test results, the curve in the iPhone lines is not done by the finger, they moved in a straight line. The curves are put there by the iPhone.

So the verdict is more along the lines of : No one has gotten touch technology right yet.

I was thinking that the curviness is there by intention near the edges because there isn't a reason normally for you to slide your finger off screen to select something. One handed use of the screen is obvious use case for this scenario.

[miketcool]

From the video I would say the Droid Eris had the most accurate response according to the "tests" but the tester did not agree.

Try drawing with a pencil on paper those same lines. Maybe then you can see the variety in which the hand shakes and lacks precise control.

A test with a mechanical finger that uses a control such as a pencil on a drawing surface to show it's exact tracking to the viewer would give a better demonstration.

Also having the sensors mapped out and actual hardware comparisons made with this information, versus MOTO's opinion would draw a much more precise conclusion about screen sensitivity.

It seems MOTO made this test to try and claim that the iPhone's keyboard was best. This seems faulty for any keys located near the edge of the screen because of the curving.

I don't think there are clear winners or losers in this test because of the faulty scientific logic. If MOTO wanted to test to see which keyboard tracked best, why weren't the onscreen keyboards actually tested with a mechanical "control" finger. Then sample data from input errors using a group of randomly selected users on all devices. That would provide real world results and actually test the hypothesis MOTO seems to have made.

[Cassie]

I have noticed the loss of sensitivity on the edge of the iPhones screen quite often. It's a real pain surfing the web and texting sometimes. No one has perfect touch technology on cell phones yet, and I suspect it will be quite a few years before they do.

[Feng Shui]

The reverse could be true as well:

The other screens could be _more_ sensitive (with higher resolution) and thus are showing the actual oscillation of a finger slowly moving along different surfaces... similar to what happens with fingerprints on the rim of a glass making a tone.

Not enough info in this obvious publicity ploy.

Wouldn't a screen with a higher resolution show a straighter line because of a lower margin of error due to denser pixels? While, on the other hand, a lower resolution would show curved lines.

[*LTD*]

I have noticed the loss of sensitivity on the edge of the iPhones screen quite often. It's a real pain surfing the web and texting sometimes. No one has perfect touch technology on cell phones yet, and I suspect it will be quite a few years before they do.

Texting? Texting seems fine. I can go right to the very outer edge on any letter or number sitting on the edge, like, Q and P and 1 and 0, etc. Or did you mean something else?

[distortedloop]

If you look closely at the video demo, the guy's finger really seems especially unsteady while doing the Droid. I'm not accusing of any malfeasance, but it crossed my mind that the difference was so pronounced against the other two phones that I wondered if MOTO had an agenda to prove.

I'd be much more satisfied with the legitimacy of this comparison if they had used some kind of template to draw the lines, and better yet, some kind of mechanical or robotic finger to do the drawing that absolutely guaranteed no human shakey-finger influenced the test. Yes, in real world the human finger is there, but it would be interesting to see if it's the human finger, or the software, or the hardware that causes the apparent problem.

That said, I also wondered if the higher resolution, or higher sampling of the faster processor made the difference here, and if Apple will face the same issue. Who knows, maybe Apple chose to forego higher screen resolutions EXACTLY for this reason...?

[*LTD*]

If you look closely at the video demo, the guy's finger really seems especially unsteady while doing the Droid. I'm not accusing of any malfeasance

Malfeasance. I love that word. I don't see it used as often as I'd like. Looks good in red, too.

[CFreymarc]

This is one of those test that not a single hardware maker is interested in doing. In many cases, touch screen accuracy comes down to if it work or not and does the customer complain. One issue that I had with these no stylus touch screens is accuracy and the fingertip hiding precise actions on the screen.

The "wavy lines" on the one phone is probably from a tracking algorithm not adjusting for the speed of the fingertip moving across the screen. Thus creating a graphical beat frequency akin to moving your hand into a smoke cloud at just the right speed to create a ripple effect.

As usual in this business, I have been told that Xerox PARC has some very good fingertip tracking code that filters out these ripples that may have never left their research labs. I'm sure there is a white paper out there with lots of math in it that shows the relationship between finger movement rate and sample rate of the touch surface that nips this problem in the butt. Again, these days, that would be just a few kilobytes of code and a labor if anyone is wiling to implement it.

[*LTD*]

This is one of those test that not a single hardware maker is interested in doing. In many cases, touch screen accuracy comes down to if it work or not and does the customer complain. One issue that I had with these no stylus touch screens is accuracy and the fingertip hiding precise actions on the screen.

The "wavy lines" on the one phone is probably from a tracking algorithm not adjusting for the speed of the fingertip moving across the screen. Thus creating a graphical beat frequency akin to moving your hand into a smoke cloud at just the right speed to create a ripple effect.

As usual in this business, I have been told that Xerox PARC has some very good fingertip tracking code that filters out these ripples that may have never left their research labs. I'm sure there is a white paper out there with lots of math in it that shows the relationship between finger movement rate and sample rate of the touch surface that nips this problem in the butt. Again, these days, that would be just a few kilobytes of code and a labor if anyone is wiling to implement it.

nip it in the butt? ;)

Xerox PARC? That's an interesting theory. To what degree do you think they would have been involved in such research?

[johncarync]

Could this be a way for MOTO Development Group to get back at Motorola? Motorola uses the term Moto for some of its phones and the "Hello Moto" slogan. MOTO Development Group might resent this. This "comparison" is a great way to bring attention to MOTO and let people know that they are not associated with Motorola.

[keatonandrew]

I have a motorola droid and every time I do the test in a drawing app, the lines are as straight as I can make my finger move.

So really, I can't say this test is anything but some sort of publicity stunt/etc., especially considering that different phones might have different software interpretation of touchscreen input that is completely independent of the actual touchscreen accuracy.

I am not anti-apple/anti-iphone, but when I use my droid and see completely different results than what the MOTO group did, it makes me question it.

[Hubbu]

I own both an iPod touch 1G and Droid Eris and was curious as to how close MOTO's results would be to my own analysis.

Here's my super scientific results (it's my finger after all). I felt that the iPod drew lines slightly better through the middle of the screen, but it was nothing to write home about. I did notice that the iPod's corner touching was pretty inaccurate. The iPod kept 'hugging' the edges longer than on the Droid Eris. I used Scribble Lite on iPod touch and DrawNoteK on Droid Eris.

Posted on my MBP (2,2) !

edit: I'll try to test this in a technical way later tonight. Maybe a stylus + ruler .. ?

[aristotle]

Right, that is the type of response that is helping the scientific community. If you do not like a point of view, instead of finding a reason to counter it intelligently, you dismiss it and then attack the person. Classy.

Dismissing someone's credibility because their opinions don't match yours is petty and unhelpful. Not exactly "Think Different" is it?
Don't take my word for it. Do a search for kdarling displaying posts by that user. I have often had to correct them on CDMA versus W-CDMA by posting various wikipedia and industry articles which have gone completely ignored and they proceeded to continue spreading misinformation with a slant that is favourable towards Sprint and Verizon.

Nobody is asking you to take my word for it, check their posting history.

[distortedloop]

I own both an iPod touch 1G and Droid Eris and was curious as to how close MOTO's results would be to my own analysis.

Here's my super scientific results (it's my finger after all). I felt that the iPod drew lines slightly better through the middle of the screen, but it was nothing to write home about. I did notice that the iPod's corner touching was pretty inaccurate. The iPod kept 'hugging' the edges longer than on the Droid Eris. I used Scribble Lite on iPod touch and DrawNoteK on Droid Eris.

Posted on my MBP (2,2) !

edit: I'll try to test this in a technical way later tonight. Maybe a stylus + ruler .. ?

Great! Thanks for posting that.

So it's safe to assume that the real conclusion we should be drawing is that it's pretty difficult to draw straight lines, especially ones in parallel to each other, on any of these devices...? :rolleyes:

[deconstruct60]

nip it in the butt? ;)

Xerox PARC? That's an interesting theory. To what degree do you think they would have been involved in such research?

PARC doesn't belong to Xerox anymore. They are an independent, contract R&D firm now ( http://www.parc.com/about/ ) .


They do electronic design and prototyping (including displays of various types) :
http://www.parc.com/work/focus-area/electronics-design-and-prototyping/

They do human machine interaction research:
http://www.parc.com/work/focus-area/human-machine-interfaces/

[cababah]

Don't take my word for it. Do a search for kdarling displaying posts by that user. I have often had to correct them on CDMA versus W-CDMA by posting various wikipedia and industry articles which have gone completely ignored and they proceeded to continue spreading misinformation with a slant that is favourable towards Sprint and Verizon.

Nobody is asking you to take my word for it, check their posting history.

I'm here for the kdarling cross-burning; I heard this was the place :p

[ChazUK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 1.6; en-us; Archos5 Build/Donut) AppleWebKit/528.5+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.2 Mobile Safari/525.20.1)

I own both an iPod touch 1G and Droid Eris and was curious as to how close MOTO's results would be to my own analysis.

Here's my super scientific results (it's my finger after all). I felt that the iPod drew lines slightly better through the middle of the screen, but it was nothing to write home about. I did notice that the iPod's corner touching was pretty inaccurate. The iPod kept 'hugging' the edges longer than on the Droid Eris. I used Scribble Lite on iPod touch and DrawNoteK on Droid Eris.

Posted on my MBP (2,2) !

edit: I'll try to test this in a technical way later tonight. Maybe a stylus + ruler .. ?

Eah, do the stylus test! I want to see the results. :)

What capacative stylus you got?

[*LTD*]

I assume everyone else's horizontal and vertical lines are alright as well?

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/3133/photocm.jpg

[Peace]

So they are comparing this years new touch phones to last years iPhone and the iPhone is on par ?

Looks like June will show the iPhone ahead of the pack.

[deconstruct60]

Don't take my word for it. Do a search for kdarling displaying posts by that user. I have often had to correct them on CDMA versus W-CDMA by posting various wikipedia and industry articles which have gone completely ignored and they proceeded to continue spreading misinformation with a slant that is favourable towards Sprint and Verizon.

Nobody is asking you to take my word for it, check their posting history.

All of which again doesn't even attempt to address his points.
By all means do a background check, but check both sides.

The Droid has a 480 x 854 pixel display and the iPhone a 480-by-320 and the Eris has a 320 x 480 display. If all three used exactly the same touch sensor resolution would the results come out the same? Or why would you use the same resolution sensor on a Droid screen as a iPhone screen?

[cmaier]

All of which again doesn't even attempt to address his points.
By all means do a background check, but check both sides.

The Droid has a 480 x 854 pixel display and the iPhone a 480-by-320 and the Eris has a 320 x 480 display. If all three used exactly the same touch sensor resolution would the results come out the same? Or why would you use the same resolution sensor on a Droid screen as a iPhone screen?

Sensor resolution should be independent of screen resolution, and determined by the size of the average finger.

[EricNau]

This study has no more scientific legitimacy than any fourth grade science project. The variables are not well enough controlled, leaving the independent variable too reliant on oversights in the testing protocol.

For example, how do we know the subject's finger is moving in a straight line? While not intentional, the ideomotor effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect) would easily lead to the outcome desired or expected by the proctor. Why weren't multiple subjects used? Why weren't the tests blinded?

Virtually all criteria for ensuring scientific accuracy are missing in this experiment. Something as simple (and obvious!) as a straight-edge ruler placed along the subject's finger could have greatly improved these results.

Don't get me wrong: this test is excellent on the preliminary level, and gives one a hypothesis for further testing; however, the current results are not worthy of publication nor our attention.

[cmaier]

This study has no more scientific legitimacy than any fourth grade science project. The variables are not well enough controlled, leaving the independent variable too reliant on oversights in the testing protocol.

For example, how do we know the subject's finger is moving in a straight line? While not intentional, the ideomotor effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect) would easily lead to the outcome desired or expected by the proctor. Why weren't multiple subjects used? Why weren't the tests blinded?

Virtually all criteria for ensuring scientific accuracy are missing in this experiment. Something as simple (and obvious!) as a straight-edge ruler placed along the subject's finger could have greatly improved these results.

Don't get me wrong: this test is excellent on the preliminary level, and gives one a hypothesis for further testing; however, the current results are not worthy of publication nor our attention.

There is a video of the tests, which at least tells us some info about the experiment.

[*LTD*]

This study has no more scientific legitimacy than any fourth grade science project. The variables are not well enough controlled, leaving the independent variable too reliant on oversights in the testing protocol.

For example, how do we know the subject's finger is moving in a straight line? While not intentional, the ideomotor effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect) would easily lead to the outcome desired or expected by the proctor. Why weren't multiple subjects used? Why weren't the tests blinded?

Virtually all criteria for ensuring scientific accuracy are missing in this experiment. Something as simple (and obvious!) as a straight-edge ruler placed along the subject's finger could have greatly improved these results.

Don't get me wrong: this test is excellent on the preliminary level, and gives one a hypothesis for further testing; however, the current results are not worthy of publication nor our attention.

Fair enough. But how do you account for the huge variances? The individual was doing his best to make straight lines. That's all. Let's assume he was doing his best to steady his finger. For each device he's got several chances. Why are nearly all the lines significantly wavy on one device while quite straight on another? Did he suddenly develop some sort of vertigo when testing the Droid? Did his finger move around wildly on each of those lines on the Droid yet remain quite steady when testing the iPhone?

Let's be reasonable here.

Watch the video.

[Lesser Evets]

I can't believe how upset people get over this test.

It's as if you can't tell this by using these devices. Have any of you used the devices for a while and noticed the odd differences in control? It's obvious.

[EricNau]

There is a video of the tests, which at least tells us some info about the experiment.
Indeed. I watched it. :)

Fair enough. But how do you account for the huge variances? The individual was doing his best to make straight lines. That's all. Let's assume he was doing his best to steady his finger. For each device he's got several chances. Why are nearly all the lines significantly wavy on one device while quite straight on another? Did he suddenly develop some sort of vertigo when testing the Droid? Did his finger move around wildly on each of those lines on the Droid yet remain quite steady when testing the iPhone?

Let's be reasonable here.

Watch the video.
The ideomotor effect (I linked to it above) could easily account for these variations. Yes, he was doing his best to steady his finger and keep it consistent between devices, however, that does not mean he actually did.

Scientists go to great lengths to control every variable, and it's harder than you would think.

[*LTD*]

Indeed. I watched it. :)


The ideomotor effect (I linked to it above) could easily account for these variations. Yes, he was doing his best to steady his finger and keep it consistent between devices, however, that does not mean he actually did.

Scientists go to great lengths to control every variable, and it's harder than you would think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect

The ideomotor effect is a psychological phenomenon wherein a subject makes motions unconsciously. As in reflexive responses to pain, the body sometimes reacts reflexively to ideas alone without the person consciously deciding to take action. For instance, tears are produced by the body unconsciously in reaction to the emotion of sadness.

Automatic writing, dowsing, facilitated communication, and Ouija boards have also been attributed to the effect of this phenomenon. Mystics have often attributed this motion to paranormal or supernatural force. Many subjects are unconvinced that their actions are originating solely from within themselves.

The term was first used in a paper discussing the means through which the Ouija board produced its results, by William Benjamin Carpenter in 1852. In the paper, Carpenter explained his theory that muscular movement can be independent of conscious desires or emotions.

Scientific tests by the English scientist Michael Faraday, the French chemist Michel Eugène Chevreul, and the American psychologists William James and Ray Hyman have demonstrated that many phenomena attributed to spiritual or paranormal forces, or to mysterious "energies," are actually due to ideomotor action. Furthermore, these tests demonstrate that "honest, intelligent people can unconsciously engage in muscular activity that is consistent with their expectations" (Hyman 1999).[1] They also show that suggestions that can guide behavior can be given by subtle clues (Hyman 1977).

Some alternative medicine practitioners claim they can use the ideomotor effect to communicate with a patient's unconsciousness using a system of physical signals (such as finger movements) for the unconscious mind to indicate "yes", "no" or "I'm not ready to know that consciously". Scientific studies have not been conducted to support this method.[2]

This has no applicaiton whatsoever to the test results.

The patterns on the lesser phones are to uniform to be created by a jittery hand anyway.

[brewcitywi]

Hey, this just means that those who don't buy iPhones can't draw straight lines!!!!

Just joking ok ok ok!

Frank

[ToroidalZeus]

Don't take my word for it. Do a search for kdarling displaying posts by that user. I have often had to correct them on CDMA versus W-CDMA by posting various wikipedia and industry articles which have gone completely ignored and they proceeded to continue spreading misinformation with a slant that is favourable towards Sprint and Verizon.

Nobody is asking you to take my word for it, check their posting history.
I agree. kdarling is crazy.

[EricNau]

This has no applicaiton whatsoever to the test results.

The patterns on the lesser phones are to uniform to be created by a jittery hand anyway.
I'm curious, how did you reach such a conclusion? :confused:

The ideomotor effect is very applicable to these results. With an experiment that relies solely on the uniform movements of one subject's finger, every possible influence on such movements must be considered. If the subject had any preconceived notions prior to testing (which he undoubtedly did - we all do), then the ideomotor effect is one of these factors.

And for what it's worth, the ideomotor effect extends well beyond jitteriness, as is noted in the wikipedia article we both have quoted.

[John Dillinger]

I can't believe how upset people get over this test.

It's as if you can't tell this by using these devices. Have any of you used the devices for a while and noticed the odd differences in control? It's obvious.

Amen dude. There are definitely differences and the iphone definitely IS MORE SENSITIVE. However, this doesnt make it 'better'! Its just a matter of preference.

And no matter how straight the iphone draws lines... the iphone screens look washed out compared to the Droid (which has higher res and density), droid eris (higher density dues to smaller screen and same res) AND the Nexus One. Lots of backlight overspill as well it just looks poor quality next to my Hero FACT.

HTC in my mind do way better hardware than Apple (The Hero coating is made of teflon people, feels way nicer too).

However Google need to fix their software. its not cool the Nexus narrowly beating the 3Gs in browsing-- it should be killing it with those specs. Then again, Ill give Google a break theyre new to the game and we all know what Chrome is like. Then again--- why the hell havent they ported it???!

Anyways all this is still irrelevant as people have to face facts that the iphone is simply OLD NEWS now. How tired will it be by July 2010?

Same design since 2007. Same boring shape just slighlty thinner. I also think it actually could do with a few buttons. A flash (please Steve, sorry to 'dirty' the design) Just a little jazzing up here and there. Its just so dry now-sorry!

[Habakuk]

Can't believe it. Played some challenging line drawing games like "33rd Division", "Doodle Golf" and "Draw 'n' go" on my iPhone 3G where you have to draw very accurate & precise lines even at the very edges of the screen and I couldn't see any unwanted curves (you couldn't win any level) or anything odd shown in the demo video. I am sure that depends a lot on the drawing software.

[*LTD*]

Can't believe it. Played some challenging line drawing games like "33rd Division", "Doodle Golf" and "Draw 'n' go" on my iPhone 3G where you have to draw very accurate & precise lines even at the very edges of the screen and I couldn't see any unwanted curves (you couldn't win any level) or anything odd shown in the demo video. I am sure that depends a lot on the drawing software.

Diagonal lines drawn as shown in the video will curve at the left/right edges. Horizontal and vertical lines are unaffected.

I've duplicated the effect. No matter how hard you try, there is no way to prevent those curves that occur at the sides.


http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6590/photo1fq.jpg

[brewcitywi]

I love my iPhone, and I love that it works well with my lifestyle, in that i'm a graphic designer who uses a mac every day.

However, I see the debate over the qualities of all the phones very interesting.

When the iPod came out, it was VERY difficult for anyone to catch up with the combo of an iTunes music store, and very hot-looking iPod devices that sync, coming at a perfect time, when the consumer would accept digital music.

However, these other cellphone companies are not going to simply exit the market. There is way too much potential in the marketplace for new and existing users. So, now we're seeing people begin to catch up, or shore up the difference, mostly because they aren't leaving the market--they have time to invest.

So, it's very interesting that Apple, who has one of the most dynamic track records of innovation and timing, will be kept honest by a very hungry and competitive group of corporations. Who knows, maybe there will be a few more surprises this year.

[cmaier]

Diagonal lines drawn as shown in the video will curve at the left/right edges. Horizontal and vertical lines are unaffected.

I've duplicated the effect. No matter how hard you try, there is no way to prevent those curves that occur at the sides.


http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6590/photo1fq.jpg

Seems to me what's happening is that part of your finger (think of it as a circle) is no longer over the screen when it hits the edge. The center point of what is left on the screen shifts upward (or downward, depending on which way your finger is moving), so it appears to curve. If the touch were perfectly calibrated, that's exactly what I would expect to happen. If your finger was a point, I wonder if we'd still see those curves. Maybe try with a AAA battery positive terminal so you get a smaller contact point.

Update: I just tried this experiment with a AA battery using Layers. The curvature at the edge shrank substantially, and seems to conform to the diameter of the positive battery terminal. Seems to me that as part of the terminal leaves the edge of the screen, the center point of what remains on the screen moves from the center point of the terminal, and the curve I see on the screen corresponds to that center point.

So it seems the iPhone always reports the geometric centerpoint of your digit, which is, I think, what it should do.

[applesupergeek]

28 people rated these news negative on an apple forums website, with test clearly showing an apple products superiority in one respect...:rolleyes:

Don't you people have anything better to do than frequent apple forums and bitch and vote negative because you own non apple products?

This site attracts so much of this type of crowd, it's mind boggling...:cool:

[Minimoose 360]

After reading this story, I took my friends Droid and crushed it with my hands for being too inaccurate.

Not serious, but this serious thread is very serious. None of you people designed the devices, so none of you 100% know what you are talking about.



;)

[cmaier]

None of you people designed the devices, so none of you 100% know what you are talking about.



;)

Because observation and the scientific method are incapable of being used to figure out whether a device can detect straight lines?

Well, we might as well shut down all institutions of scientific learning and live in huts, I guess.

[kdarling]

I would not be surprised if kdarling is somehow connected with one of the other handset makers and view the iPhone as a threat to their livelihood.

Instead of acting so paranoid and attacking posters when they say something you disagree with, why don't you try responding to their points?

Don't take my word for it. Do a search for kdarling displaying posts by that user. I have often had to correct them on CDMA versus W-CDMA by posting various wikipedia and industry articles ...

Yep, please search. I and others have attempted to correct your misconceptions about W-CDMA and LTE being compatible protocols. Your enthusiasm is commendable, even if your technical knowledge is lacking. If you wish, please start a separate LTE thread where we can figure it all out.

I agree. kdarling is crazy.

Yep, as crazy as any engineer with thirty years' experience would be around some who prefer myths over facts and adult observations :)

All that some of us are trying to do is figure out how they got those results and what could cause them. I don't understand why that throws some of you into a fit. That's just weird.

.

[paul4339]

This study has no more scientific legitimacy than any fourth grade science project. The variables are not well enough controlled, leaving the independent variable too reliant on oversights in the testing protocol.

For example, how do we know the subject's finger is moving in a straight line? While not intentional, the ideomotor effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect) would easily lead to the outcome desired or expected by the proctor. Why weren't multiple subjects used? Why weren't the tests blinded?

Virtually all criteria for ensuring scientific accuracy are missing in this experiment. Something as simple (and obvious!) as a straight-edge ruler placed along the subject's finger could have greatly improved these results.

Don't get me wrong: this test is excellent on the preliminary level, and gives one a hypothesis for further testing; however, the current results are not worthy of publication nor our attention.

We have some folks reproduce and post the iPhone tests.
It'll be nice if someone with a Droid (or other phones) can simple reproduce the results and post.
Good tests should be repeatable.

[CFreymarc]

After reading this story, I took my friends Droid and crushed it with my hands for being too inaccurate.

Not serious, but this serious thread is very serious. None of you people designed the devices, so none of you 100% know what you are talking about.

;)

Speak for yourself. There is a very interesting distribution of people here including those that have designed mobile systems from the board layout, to the embedded OS to the apps on.

Then there are those that post from their parents basements living off the second mortgage taken on the place after getting their folks to sign a living will ... and you know who I am specifically talking about here!

[Journojulz]

We have some folks reproduce and post the iPhone tests.
It'll be nice if someone with a Droid (or other phones) can simple reproduce the results and post.

Easy to do. All you need is a straight edge and a sketching app.

My Palm Tungsten had dead spots so i laid a ruler diagonally across the screen and drew lines across the whole screen.

It showed huge blank spots and that one jpeg shortened a call to tech support.

Go. Rule. Draw.

And for the record - i love the iphone touch interface, it feels 'right'.

[VulchR]

I like this article because it is one of the few attempts to systematically measure mobile phone performance. It also highlights a systematic error in the routines/hardware by which Apple determines where you finger is contacting the touchscreen. As cmaier posted above, Apple are obviously using the centroid (2-D centre) of the points activated by your finger. As you finger moves off the screen, the geometry changes so the centroid no longer matches the centre of your finger. Put another way, the algorithm Apple acts as though your finger shrinks and elongates as it moves to the edge of the screen. This is one of the few instances I have seen in which Apple has been caught with a fundamentally flaw in the user interface. Imagine if a mouse were that systematically inaccurate. Perhaps in the next revision of the iPhone software they'll fix this obvious bug....

[Habakuk]

This study has no more scientific legitimacy than any fourth grade science project.

+1

I tried some of the "iPhone killers" even new Android phones (with—tataaa!—multitouch, but not in all parts of the world, and not spanning the whole system): The touchscreen technique (capacitive, multitouch) works best on iPhone and iPod touch by far as well as the software behind. The best way to test is not a primitive draw pattern but challenging draw line games where you need to be fast and accurate. Not to mention some of the car navigation systems or—quite new—some cameras with touchscreens ==> all crap comparatively.

[TheMacBookPro]

That test is obviously Apple-biased. Read the comments and see 'real-life' tests.

http://www.cartoonmonkey.com/nexus.jpg

Oh yeah, look at all that stair-stepping :rolleyes:

[Fiveos22]

So Apple got the touch technology right. Over two years ago.

Hardly surprising.

Or that could mean that they got it right with technology that they learned from the days of the Newton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_(platform)) (dev 1989-1998).

[MorphingDragon]

That test is obviously Apple-biased. Read the comments and see 'real-life' tests.

http://www.cartoonmonkey.com/nexus.jpg

Oh yeah, look at all that stair-stepping :rolleyes:

The test is only fair when you have the same back-end code.

So comparing to a program optimised for the Nexus against something whipped up for the iPhone or Droid in 5 mins is hardly a fair test.

Unfortunately when it comes to testing things like touchscreen you cant get the same pressure over and over. Theresfore these test you can ultimately be chucked out the window.

[GnillGnoll]

It's strange they tested only diagonal lines. While I believe the devices used all have a grid of horizontal and vertical wires (you can see them under the right lighting conditions) and thus should usually do well with horizontal/vertical lines, there are other devices, like the HTC HD2, which use diagonal wires (on the HD2 they are particularly visible).

I like this article because it is one of the few attempts to systematically measure mobile phone performance. It also highlights a systematic error in the routines/hardware by which Apple determines where you finger is contacting the touchscreen. As cmaier posted above, Apple are obviously using the centroid (2-D centre) of the points activated by your finger. As you finger moves off the screen, the geometry changes so the centroid no longer matches the centre of your finger. Put another way, the algorithm Apple acts as though your finger shrinks and elongates as it moves to the edge of the screen. This is one of the few instances I have seen in which Apple has been caught with a fundamentally flaw in the user interface. Imagine if a mouse were that systematically inaccurate. Perhaps in the next revision of the iPhone software they'll fix this obvious bug....
The proper way to fix this would be to extend the touch sensing surface beyond the edges of the screen, preferably to the entire front surface. That would also prevent annoying "sliding off a virtual D-pad" mistakes and allow Palm Pre-like off-screen gestures.

[distortedloop]

Because observation and the scientific method are incapable of being used to figure out whether a device can detect straight lines?

Except this test followed the scientific method in only the most fleeting of ways. No controls for the shakiness or variances in speed or pressure in the tester's hand.

Good tests should be repeatable.

Exactly. That's a basic of the scientific method; your tests must be repeatable and produce similar results.

Easy to do. All you need is a straight edge and a sketching app.

The fact that MOTO didn't use a ruler, and the clearly different amount of shakiness in the Droid test take away most of the credibility of their results to me.

The test is only fair when you have the same back-end code.

So comparing to a program optimised for the Nexus against something whipped up for the iPhone or Droid in 5 mins is hardly a fair test.

I call BS on that one! IF it's all about the experience, then you want code that is exactly optimized for the device you're using. It's not like the typical user is going to run around using software whipped up in 5 minutes every day. Isn't it a common battle cry for the Apple devote around here to point out that even though the iPhone doesn't have the best hardware that it's optimized OS and software still gives it the edge? You can't have it both ways.

[MorphingDragon]

I call BS on that one! IF it's all about the experience, then you want code that is exactly optimized for the device you're using. It's not like the typical user is going to run around using software whipped up in 5 minutes every day.

So how many fart Apps have been downloaded over the world?

---

Re-Read my post, you're missing something.

Isn't it a common battle cry for the Apple devote around here to point out that even though the iPhone doesn't have the best hardware that it's optimized OS and software still gives it the edge? You can't have it both ways.

You can actually. But you still aren't grasping the point.

[cmaier]

It's strange they tested only diagonal lines. While I believe the devices used all have a grid of horizontal and vertical wires (you can see them under the right lighting conditions) and thus should usually do well with horizontal/vertical lines, there are other devices, like the HTC HD2, which use diagonal wires (on the HD2 they are particularly visible).


The proper way to fix this would be to extend the touch sensing surface beyond the edges of the screen, preferably to the entire front surface. That would also prevent annoying "sliding off a virtual D-pad" mistakes and allow Palm Pre-like off-screen gestures.

Agreed. It would be almost impossible to fix with software since all software could do is guess as to where the restnof the finger is likely to be, perhaps base on remaining finger shape.

[distortedloop]

So how many fart Apps have been downloaded over the world?

---

Re-Read my post, you're missing something.

You can actually. But you still aren't grasping the point.


Either that or you're not making it very well.

I got a chuckle out of the fart app response, however, that hardly proves whatever point you're trying to make. We're not discussing using fart apps as a way to prove the touchscreen performance superiority of one platform over another...

[WeegieMac]

28 people rated these news negative on an apple forums website, with test clearly showing an apple products superiority in one respect...:rolleyes:

Don't you people have anything better to do than frequent apple forums and bitch and vote negative because you own non apple products?

This site attracts so much of this type of crowd, it's mind boggling...:cool:

It's one thing, even as a semi-regular poster, that I notice a lot and do sit and wonder, "Why".

I actually think MacRumors could run a story saying, "Apple find cure for Cancer" and there would be people who lurk here that would rate it as negative for the sake of doing so.

[Habakuk]

I actually think MacRumors could run a story saying, "Apple find cure for Cancer" and there would be people who lurk here that would rate it as negative for the sake of doing so.

Apple iPhone "cured" my diabetes mellitus Type 2. When I've got the phone I was (and still am) so occupied with that gadget that I almost forgot to eat. Lost 30 Kilograms of weight in five months and don't need any medication any more (glucose in blood—normal). No joke!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_mellitus
Be careful with that!

Want to lose weight easily without missing anything?


Don't eat carbohydrates = starch (such as cereals, bread, grain products, rice, potatoes and pasta, banana, beans, corn) or sugar (such as candy, jams and desserts). Or try to eat as few of it as possible (if you can't avoid it then absolute natural, biological and most expensive products, NO WHITE SUGAR).

Get some Apple gadget (instead of wonder-diet plans, books, DVDs, receipts...) and play/work with it for distraction of food themes. Don't watch any food/cooking/commercials on TV.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbohydrate

Try it! It works for most people! No yo-yo effect. I am keeping my normal weight now almost one year.

Sorry for off-topic but those touchscreen tests are ridiculous.

[Cassie]

Texting? Texting seems fine. I can go right to the very outer edge on any letter or number sitting on the edge, like, Q and P and 1 and 0, etc. Or did you mean something else?

Eh, maybe it's just me, but there seems to be a large loss of accuracy on the letters near the edge.

[miketcool]

That test is obviously Apple-biased. Read the comments and see 'real-life' tests.

Oh yeah, look at all that stair-stepping :rolleyes:

See, I knew I was foolish for question those tests! Now there is evidence that my skepticism might be founded!:eek:

[kasplash]

We have some folks reproduce and post the iPhone tests.
It'll be nice if someone with a Droid (or other phones) can simple reproduce the results and post.
Good tests should be repeatable.

I tried this on my Moto Droid, and my lines came out clean and beautiful, just like the iPhone in the video. The app I used is Paint Note.

[tbrinkma]

Except this test followed the scientific method in only the most fleeting of ways. No controls for the shakiness or variances in speed or pressure in the tester's hand.

The video seems to show that visibly similar (if not actually identical) testing was done on all the phones involved in the test. No, it doesn't meet the strictest scientific repeatability standards, but somehow I doubt the guy has access to a multi-million dollar lab with the equipment necessary to reach that standard. Then again, if having that equipment were actually necessary to perform reasonably good science, we'd still be living in caves. The man demonstrated his methodology. If you disagree with it, run your own tests and show where his methodology went wrong *and* poisoned the results. Until then, your complaining about his methodology is *less* scientific than his methodology is.

I call BS on that one! IF it's all about the experience, then you want code that is exactly optimized for the device you're using. It's not like the typical user is going to run around using software whipped up in 5 minutes every day. Isn't it a common battle cry for the Apple devote around here to point out that even though the iPhone doesn't have the best hardware that it's optimized OS and software still gives it the edge? You can't have it both ways.

Actually, since it seems to have been a test intended to reveal finger-position plotting accuracy of the various phones, completely unoptimized software that simply plots out the contact point reported through the phones' APIs would be the best way to go. Specifically, you *don't* want to use drawing software with algorithms designed to smooth out such defects. (I don't know enough about the software he used on the various phones to know whether some or all of the software meets this criteria.)

Even better might be software that randomly shows a dot on the screen, and then waits for a user to touch it and measures the relative position of the dot and the measured touch. That gives a pin-point target and the variance around different areas of the screen can be compared. Tracing a diagonal lines is a good way to easily cover large areas of screen real-estate quickly to gain similar results.

[VulchR]

Agreed. It would be almost impossible to fix with software since all software could do is guess as to where the restnof the finger is likely to be, perhaps base on remaining finger shape.

You have an excellent suggestion, for guessing finger position wouldn't be too hard:

(1) Determine the average size (height and width) of the finger spot on the touchscreen while the swipe is in the safe part of the screen.

(2) As the finger moves toward the edge (say, within the radius of the average size of the touchscreen spot created by fingers), check to see if spot width>>height or width<<height. If so, recompute finger location as though width=height.

Simples.

[DougB541]

Wow...really?

All these modern OS's (mobile OSX, Android and WebOS) have very accurate screens for what the phone needs you to do.

What it neesd you to do is point and hit an icon the size of the pad of your finger.



I used to hate benchmarking computers for games....but now we have touchscreen benchmarks?

[cmaier]

You have an excellent suggestion, for guessing finger position wouldn't be too hard:

(1) Determine the average size (height and width) of the finger spot on the touchscreen while the swipe is in the safe part of the screen.

(2) As the finger moves toward the edge (say, within the radius of the average size of the touchscreen spot created by fingers), check to see if spot width>>height or width<<height. If so, recompute finger location as though width=height.

Simples.

Far better would be to simply extend the touch radius one-half finger around the edge of the screen (approximately 20 pixels, assuming the current dot pitch). This would also allow for new gestures involving the bezel.

[distortedloop]

The video seems to show that visibly similar (if not actually identical) testing was done on all the phones involved in the test. No, it doesn't meet the strictest scientific repeatability standards, but somehow I doubt the guy has access to a multi-million dollar lab with the equipment necessary to reach that standard. Then again, if having that equipment were actually necessary to perform reasonably good science, we'd still be living in caves. The man demonstrated his methodology. If you disagree with it, run your own tests and show where his methodology went wrong *and* poisoned the results. Until then, your complaining about his methodology is *less* scientific than his methodology is.



Pointing out his lack of scientific method is hardly less scientific than his methodology. That criticism reeks of fanboyism. Would you be so quick to defend his tests if they had shown the iPhone to be the worst of the pack? If you're going to challenge my criticisms of the (lack of) method used, perhaps you should do your own tests to confirm his are valid before criticizing me, but that would just be silly.

Several others have posted that their own tests show their Android phones to draw just as straight lines as the iPhone, even straighter perhaps, and we've even got a picture or two floating around.

In my opinion the guy's finger clearly is less stable, for whatever reason (fatigue, hidden agenda, camera angle, etc) on the Droid test than it is on the others. He could easily have addressed this without a multimillion dollar lab: use a straight edge, do multiple runs, and use multiple testing personnel. Do you really think that's unreasonable to expect.

[cumanzor]

Pointing out his lack of scientific method is hardly less scientific than his methodology. That criticism reeks of fanboyism. Would you be so quick to defend his tests if they had shown the iPhone to be the worst of the pack? If you're going to challenge my criticisms of the (lack of) method used, perhaps you should do your own tests to confirm his are valid before criticizing me, but that would just be silly.

Several others have posted that their own tests show their Android phones to draw just as straight lines as the iPhone, even straighter perhaps, and we've even got a picture or two floating around.

In my opinion the guy's finger clearly is less stable, for whatever reason (fatigue, hidden agenda, camera angle, etc) on the Droid test than it is on the others. He could easily have addressed this without a multimillion dollar lab: use a straight edge, do multiple runs, and use multiple testing personnel. Do you really think that's unreasonable to expect.

There are capacitive styluses out there. Can't he just use one of those and a rules?

[distortedloop]

There are capacitive styluses out there. Can't he just use one of those and a rules?

Anything to take away the doubt that each touchscreen got the same input opportunity to determine what line was being drawn.

Apparently, to some fanboys, asking for something a bit more than just grabbing the phones and randomly running your finger across the screen a few times is too much to ask. :confused:

[MorphingDragon]

Either that or you're not making it very well.

I got a chuckle out of the fart app response, however, that hardly proves whatever point you're trying to make. We're not discussing using fart apps as a way to prove the touchscreen performance superiority of one platform over another...

Yes, and you know how in Fair Testing, you have to remove a many variables as possible?

Having identical back-end code is one way. So comparing a device which has the unoptimized back-end code as the testing app against a device that does is very biased. I could make the HTC Magic look better than the Nexus.

[intelliot]

Which drawing apps did they use to conduct the test?

On the iPhone, it looks like it could be Whiteboard: Collaborative Drawing (http://www.greengar.com/apps/whiteboard/).

[paul4339]

we have some great results from Droid eris and iPhone users.

- it shows that making straight lines on various phone IS POSSIBLE.
(this gives us some more data)

- also we have some points brought up that the drawing app has changed in our tests. That is, on one hand it tells us that given a proper drawing program on a particular phone we can get straight lines, on the other hand, switching programs for experiment purposes isn't good.

- The goal isn't necessary to debunk this guy's (MOTO) results, but to assume it's true and to try validate... Try to REPRODUCE his results (sorry, I used the word 'repeat the tests' in an earlier post)...

- What I meant was that, given a fully charged phone (say, Droid Eris), using the same drawing app, same finger, same ruler, same everything,
_vary the pressure_ you apply on the line that you draw; and see if you can 'reproduce' the jagged-line effect that MOTO shows in his experiment.
(i think in his presentation he calls it medium pressure vs light pressure)