Craigslist-Savvy Mom Turns Tables on Crook

[mscriv]

By JANETTE WILLIAMS
Updated 1:21 PM PST, Tue, Jan 12, 2010

Eleven-year-old Hedy Mulligan has worked with teachers and therapists for years, learning how to communicate with a special computer designed for children with rare disabilities. Born with a chromosome disorder that left her mentally disabled, the Berkeley girl touches words and symbols on the touchscreen device to communicate with friends and family.

But after Thanksgiving, as Hedy's mom, Patty, loaded up their car outside her brother's house, she accidentally left the $10,000 machine on the curb. When they returned to look for it, it was gone.

"It was devastating," Patty Mulligan told the San Jose Mercury-News. "It's a piece of equipment that is so important to Hedy."

Mulligan didn't panic. Instead, she turned into an amateur detective, determined to get back the computer. Since her insurance company, which bought the machine, refused to pay for another, she posted signs all over her brother's San Jose neighborhood.

Eventually, she turned to Craigslist -- and hit the jackpot. Somebody was selling a DynaVox on the classifieds site for $3,500 -- about a third the normal price

Mulligan decided to meet up with the seller at the Capitol Flea Market, but she didn’t go alone. She brought police along for the sting. That’s where police say James Durr had a Dynavox with the exact same serial number.

Durr was arrested on unrelated outstanding warrants for possession of stolen property. The Santa Clara County District Attorney’s Office is considering felony charges for misappropriation of lost or stolen goods.

Mulligan says the best part was Hedy’s ecstatic reaction when they were able to find the device.

And now, thanks to her mom, she once again has the means of expressing her joy.

"We were in disbelief that we had actually recovered it," Mulligan told the Mercury-News. "It just seemed like it was gone."

LINK (http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/Craigslist-Savvy-Mom-Turns-Tables-on-Crook-81160502.html?yhp=1)

Neat story. Glad it worked out for the family. If you click on the link some of the comments are quite interesting as in people defending the person trying to sell the computer. Let's see what our community thinks about it.

[NathanMuir]

There's no question it was an honest mistake, and luckily it was recovered, but how does one just forget a specialized, $10,000 laptop?

I mean, I always do a pat check before I go anywhere- wallet, watch, keys and phone and none of those items even approach the $10,000 range, except maybe the iPhone w/contract...:p.

[jaw04005]

There's no question it was an honest mistake, and luckily it was recovered, but how does one just forget a specialized, $10,000 laptop?

It can happen. I’ve put my notebook bag on my hood before and forgot about it until it came rolling down my front windshield. :o

[notjustjay]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to defend the person with "if it was at the curb, it must have been trash... right?" argument. Come on, a little common sense. If you saw a $100 bill sitting by the curb, would you assume that someone must have decided it was garbage? What about a kids' bicycle?

Whenever I see something "at the curb" that I want to take, I ask myself if it's reasonable to assume that it was left out for the taking. Old furniture, an old TV -- sure. A kid's bike -- probably not, I'd assume some kid left it there when they went inside. A specialized computer in good working condition -- likely not! If I was going to take it, I'd ring the doorbell and ask. "That's trash, right? Can I take it?"

There are honest mistakes, sure, but there are also rationalizations that you can use to convince yourself that you're doing something OK ("oh, he must have meant for me to take it if he left it by the curb.")

[Abstract]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to defend the person with "if it was at the curb, it must have been trash... right?" argument. Come on, a little common sense. If you saw a $100 bill sitting by the curb, would you assume that someone must have decided it was garbage? What about a kids' bicycle?


I'm sorry, but I don't know what a DynaVox is. Judging from photos, it looks like it could be trash, even when new. If it was sitting "at the curb" as stated in the story, it's not unreasonable to think it's trash. It's also not unreasonable to think that the machine may be worth, at most, $200 new. It's not nice looking. It's expensive because of its function, not because it looks like a $10,000 machine.

[OllyW]

I'm sorry, but I don't know what a DynaVox is. Judging from photos, it looks like it could be trash, even when new. If it was sitting "at the curb" as stated in the story, it's not unreasonable to think it's trash. It's also not unreasonable to think that the machine may be worth, at most, $200 new. It's not nice looking. It's expensive because of its function, not because it looks like a $10,000 machine.

If he had put it on Craigslist for $100 you could probably assume he was thinking along the same lines as you. Listing it at $3500 suggests he had a fair idea of it's true value.

[Abstract]

Maybe he looked it up after he found it.

I don't know. I work in the medical field, and I've never heard of a DynaVox. No, I don't work in mental health, or anything related to disabilities, but surely I'm not the only person who would need to Bing *cough* the word "DynaVox" and look for images, what it did, and its retail value.

Besides that, it wouldn't be unusual that someone threw out something of value. My housemate and I found a plasma TV sitting on a curbside in front of an apartment building, along with an amp and speakers, and the TV worked. No, we didn't understand it either, but it was rubbish pick-up day, and it was sitting near other trash. However, a TV is a lot more commonplace than a weird looking laptop, so I assume that someone picked it up because it was a laptop, not because they actually knew it was worth $10,000 (brand new).

[notjustjay]

Besides that, it wouldn't be unusual that someone threw out something of value. My housemate and I found a plasma TV sitting on a curbside in front of an apartment building, along with an amp and speakers, and the TV worked. No, we didn't understand it either, but it was rubbish pick-up day, and it was sitting near other trash.

Well, here again, common sense prevails. You had several clues that the stuff was likely trash, despite the perceived value of the items. First, there were multiple items (TV, amp, speakers). Second, those are large and heavy items, and very difficult to accidentally leave someplace or forget about. If those items were out at the curb, then someone moved them there for a reason. It was also garbage pick-up day. I think there'd be very little doubt as to the intention of moving all that stuff out there on that day.

A single, small, portable, item left at the curb on a day other than garbage day, with no sign on it saying "free", I would think should garner at least a moment's thought: "Is this supposed to be here?" (Particularly an item intended for a child -- though I grant that you wouldn't know it in this case). I personally wouldn't take it until at least making an effort to confirm.

[eawmp1]

Not to defend the guy but to play devil's advocate:

1) Would there be as much outrage against the guy if it wasn't a device for a special-needs child?
2) Did he try to locate the owner (not sure if he did or not)?
3) As he didn't steal the device, returning it to the owner should make it right. Not sure if criminal charges are warranted.

[Melrose]

It really depends on where he found it. If it's in the front yard of a home, then it's safe to assume it's not trash. If it was forgotten nearer the curb then most people think it's finders keepers.

Anything is public domain once it hits the curb, unless there's a for sale sign on it or the municipality forbids collecting stuff by the curb (some do). I've found some nice stuff on the curb at times.

In this case, it's the mother leaving by the curb is just plain stupid. In any other circumstance, (eg, not a disabled child) I don't think anything would have done.

That said, the quote does say the guy was picked up for "unrelated outstanding warrants"..

[Ca$hflow]

In law school they teach "it depends." Who knows what really happened because everything is circumstantial.

[gnasher729]

Anything is public domain once it hits the curb, unless there's a for sale sign on it or the municipality forbids collecting stuff by the curb (some do). I've found some nice stuff on the curb at times.

From http://www.answers.com/topic/personal-property : "Personal property is considered to be lost if the owner has involuntarily parted with it and is ignorant of its location. Mislaid property is that which an owner intentionally places somewhere with the idea that he will eventually be able to find it again but subsequently forgets where it has been placed. Abandoned property is that to which the owner has intentionally relinquished all rights."

The mother accidentally left the item on the curb. She knew where it was. According to the definition above, it was not lost (she was not ignorant of the location), not mislaid (same reason) and not abandoned. This looks very much like theft to me - the guy took the item to deprive the rightful owner.

[peapody]

Just a note - WOW this is my home town right here... good ol' capitol flea market. I am glad the mother got i back.

[Antares]

My first thought was also, "it's on the curb, it's trash." We have proper alleys in this city. So, we don't put trash on the curb. However, in places that do, I have seen tv's, couches, computers, etc. on curbs, presumably to be picked up by the garbage men. We have scavengers in this city who make their living driving around in their rusty pickups, going through alleys to pick up anything of value that people throw away. In places that don't have alleys, I'm sure they pick up anything placed on the curb.

The guy who took the computer was in the right. Assuming this happened in a place where trash is kept at the curb, if a computer or some other junk was left there, it's fair game. After all, nobody would leave something of value, that they're intending to keep, at the curb. If a garbage truck came by, that computer would likely have been picked up as trash. This lady left the computer at the curb. It would be a different story if it was kept on the lawn or sidewalk.

I'm glad she found the computer and got it back. However, the computer was not stolen.

[MacVixen]

It can happen. I’ve put my notebook bag on my hood before and forgot about it until it came rolling down my front windshield. :o

Yes, and the as the article says, she had been visiting her brother for the holidays and was loading up the car when she left it behind. I've certainly done very very similar things :o

Is this situation any different from those that "forget" their iPhone someplace and then scream bloody murder when the police, AT&T and Apple don't help get it back from the "thief" that is now trying to resell or reactivate the phone?

[Consultant]

I'm glad she found the computer and got it back. However, the computer was not stolen.

Yup. Lost but not stolen.

I'm sorry, but I don't know what a DynaVox is. Judging from photos, it looks like it could be trash, even when new. If it was sitting "at the curb" as stated in the story, it's not unreasonable to think it's trash. It's also not unreasonable to think that the machine may be worth, at most, $200 new. It's not nice looking. It's expensive because of its function, not because it looks like a $10,000 machine.

The function of the same device has been replicated with iPod touch and some app. Total cost, few hundred. Works even better actually.

[gnasher729]

Yup. Lost but not stolen.

"Personal property is considered to be lost if the owner has involuntarily parted with it and is ignorant of its location." So explain how it was _lost_ when she knew exactly where the item was?

[mscriv]

I think some of the arguments being presented here are silly. Let me ask this question, if you accidentally leave something somewhere; what is the first thing you do when you realize it's been lost? You go back to where you left it to search and if possible ask if it has been turned in as lost. Why do you ask if it's been turned in to "lost and found"? Because deep down you hope that people have the decency not to take something that doesn't belong to them just because it was there for the taking. Is there anything wrong with picking something up from the curb, believing it to be trash, no. But, being a responsible member of a community and a person of principle/conscious means you take measures to ensure that the owner of the item is indeed making it available for the taking.

[Gregg2]

I think some of the arguments being presented here are silly. ...

Right on the mark.

I once dropped a then expensive programmable calculator on a city bus without realizing it. What did I do? I contacted the bus company. I put an ad in the Lost and Found section of the paper, and was allowed to post one at the bus stop.

I also consulted law enforcement. I was told that finding an item and not turning it in was considered theft. If the value of the item is over a certain amount, they said it is a felony to keep it. If it's not yours, it doesn't matter where you find it. If there's no sign on it saying "Free" then you have to ask around until you find the owner, then ask if the item is wanted.

....
Oh, yeah, I got the calculator back. I asked an officer to check at a store on the bus route to see if anyone had ordered just a manual for that model. He did. He went to talk to the person who ordered the manual. Two days later, the calculator was returned to me.

[Aeolius]

It's also not unreasonable to think that the machine may be worth, at most, $200 new. It's not nice looking. It's expensive because of its function, not because it looks like a $10,000 machine.

Supply and demand. Because fewer people use such devices and the devices require significant R&D, the price tends to be higher. My son's power wheelchair, covered by insurance, would have cost $40,000.

[mscriv]

Right on the mark.

Thank you good sir. :)

[RedTomato]

LINK (http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/Craigslist-Savvy-Mom-Turns-Tables-on-Crook-81160502.html?yhp=1)
If you click on the link some of the comments are quite interesting as in people defending the person trying to sell the computer.

There's no comments?

EDIT: Oh there they are. Took a while to load.

I've left expensive stuff behind by mistake. Once left a nearly new Nokia 9110 Communicator in the toilets of a club. :o This was some time ago, when they were the first and only smartphone around.

It's up to chance whether you will ever get it back or not. Ehh. I suppose if I ever found a Dynavox on the kerb, I'd realise pretty quick it was an item of disability equipment. I'm not sure how I would know that it was mislaid, and not some sort of surplus equipment that was no longer needed.

I've seen quite a few computers chucked out round here - usually Pentium I, PII, and a PIII once. Got a working PII laptop project upstairs with a cracked screen that was thrown in a skip.

I suppose if it looked nice and was clearly expensive and in good condition, I'd knock on the nearest door to check. I've done that a few times - seen nice items in or near peoples yards and knocked to ask if they were genuinely chucking it out. Got some nice solid wood bookcases out of it.

[speedriff]

Here is the checklist you follow:

1. Did you buy it?
2. Is there a sign that says, "Take please"?

If you answered no to those questions then it isn't yours to take. It is stealing, plain and simple. The people on here trying to justify this are prime examples of what is wrong with our society today. I bet you think that just because you buy a CD you should be able to give your friends and everyone else a copy, right? Wrong. Stealing is stealing no matter how you dress it up.

[RedTomato]

Here is the checklist you follow:

1. Did you buy it?
2. Is there a sign that says, "Take please"?

If you answered no to those questions then it isn't yours to take. It is stealing, plain and simple.

Maybe in your area, but laws and customs are very different around the world. In Japan, people used to often leave out clean, working expensive items for disposal, to make room for the the new even more shiny thing in their small apartments. No 'Take please' signs on them.

Now the boom times are over, dunno if they still do that...

[Rodimus Prime]

Maybe he looked it up after he found it.

I don't know. I work in the medical field, and I've never heard of a DynaVox. No, I don't work in mental health, or anything related to disabilities, but surely I'm not the only person who would need to Bing *cough* the word "DynaVox" and look for images, what it did, and its retail value.

Besides that, it wouldn't be unusual that someone threw out something of value. My housemate and I found a plasma TV sitting on a curbside in front of an apartment building, along with an amp and speakers, and the TV worked. No, we didn't understand it either, but it was rubbish pick-up day, and it was sitting near other trash. However, a TV is a lot more commonplace than a weird looking laptop, so I assume that someone picked it up because it was a laptop, not because they actually knew it was worth $10,000 (brand new).

Another part of the argument you are missing is the guy has a record so his credibility on saying he though it was trash is shot.

Now if it was some one with no history of stolen goods or crimes then yeah the argument is valid that they might of though it was trash. I have seen some lucky scores from garbage before but it comes down to a lot of issues.

The record means chances are he knew he was stealing and was trying to get an easy score.

[Antares]

Those of you arguing the opposite point of the computer being stolen, what you're missing is this: The computer was essentially "thrown away" in the trash. It wasn't left on a bus. It wasn't left on the lawn. It wasn't left at a restaurant. It was not sitting some place where someone clearly forgot it and left it behind. No, the computer was on the curb, ready to be picked up by the garbage men. Fair game to be picked up by anyone..

This isn't an argument on what the most neighborly, community minded thing to do should have been. Yes, if you are a nice person, you would double check with the home owner first. However, given the limited facts presented, the computer was essentially trash and fair game to be taken. If a garbage man came by and took it, would he or city have been considered to have stolen it?

Now, present all of the laws of the county/city/town relating to garbage and property as well as documented facts on exactly where the computer was. Then, and only then, can we truly come to a conclusion on whether the computer was stolen or not. Given the facts, as they are, the computer was clearly not stolen.

[kindablue09]

Not to defend the guy but to play devil's advocate:
1) Would there be as much outrage against the guy if it wasn't a device for a special-needs child?


Those of you arguing the opposite point of the computer being stolen, what you're missing is this: The computer was essentially "thrown away" in the trash. It wasn't left on a bus. It wasn't left on the lawn. It wasn't left at a restaurant. It was not sitting some place where someone clearly forgot it and left it behind. No, the computer was on the curb, ready to be picked up by the garbage men. Fair game to be picked up by anyone..


The kicker is the Dynovox is more than just an expensive computer that was left on the curb. Its considered a piece of assistive technology, and is part of the way the little girl communicates. Imo when tech is used as a means for daily living (like a pair of glasses, or a hearing aid) it really becomes a bit more than a piece of equipment, it becomes part of the person (to some degree). So no, people wouldn't be as "outraged" if she didn't have special needs. As far as I am concerned the "outrage" generated by the situation is somewhat warranted based on the function of the equipment.
---> so for all of you playing at home 10k Dynovox > 10k non assistive tech

The guy who picked it up obviously found out at some point in time what it was. He should have made some attempt to post it as lost and try to find the original owner. Relying on some kind of protection from the legal system for a "finders keepers" mentality is pretty stupid.

I'm not sure if the seller deserves punishment for this, but by setting up some sort of reprehension for these sort of thefts/accidents will hopefully make people more aware before taking something that isn't theirs.

Finders keepers is a juvenile mentality and shouldn't be adopted as an all encompassing legal policy.

[mscriv]

Those of you arguing the opposite point of the computer being stolen, what you're missing is this: In my opinion, the computer was essentially "thrown away" in the trash. It wasn't left on a bus. It wasn't left on the lawn. It wasn't left at a restaurant. It was not sitting some place where someone clearly forgot it and left it behind. No, as I imagine how things went in my head the computer was on the curb, ready to be picked up by the garbage men. Fair game to be picked up by anyone....

I fixed that for you.

What the story actually says is:

But after Thanksgiving, as Hedy's mom, Patty, loaded up their car outside her brother's house, she accidentally left the $10,000 machine on the curb. When they returned to look for it, it was gone.

There's no mention of trash pick up or even how this local community handles garbage collection. For all we know it could be a city that requires all trash be put in a can at the end of the drive way. You make it sound as if the device was left right next to the garbage pile on trash pick up day. The point is we don't even know what the "curb" actually means. Was is the front of the house or a private access drive? Is the house in a regular neighborhood or is it a gated community with strict HOA rules? We don't know. Sorry, you can't defend your point with assumptions.

[MacVixen]

I fixed that for you.

There's no mention of trash pick up or even how this local community handles garbage collection. For all we know it could be a city that requires all trash be put in a can at the end of the drive way. You make it sound as if the device was left right next to the garbage pile on trash pick up day. The point is we don't even know what the "curb" actually means. Was is the front of the house or a private access drive? Is the house in a regular neighborhood or is it a gated community with strict HOA rules. We don't know. Sorry, you can't defend your point with assumptions.

This happened in the town I grew up in and still live just 30 minutes away from. I believe a previous article I read said it was in the Willow Glen neighborhood, so it was not a gated community or anything like that. But I absoultely agree with your point that there is NOTHING to indicate that the device was left on the curb like trash. She was loading her daughter in the car and forgot it. It happens sometimes.

If I somehow drop my iPhone on the ground, does it automatically become "trash" and the person that finds it can just claim that I must have wanted to throw it away? :confused:

[duncanapple]

People defending the thief absolutely sicken me. What in the heck is wrong with you people? Unless this computer was sitting among other trash, at the corner of the driveway, on a trash day, its highly, HIGHLY unlikely this is trash. Further, once the guy found out its value (assuming he did based on the asking price of $3500) he would have known this must be a mistake.

The likely scenario though is this computer was sitting by itself somewhere outside (I doubt the mom set it on top of a trash can or IN a trash can while loading the car), the dead beat walked by, scooped it up thinking it had value and knowing full well he was stealing it, and then figured out later he had really hit a jackpot. I also love the people who mark her as an idiot and deserving of her stuff to get stolen because it was accidentally left behind. So if you ever let your possessions out of your site you no longer have claim to them should someone decide they want it and no one is around?

Lastly, you aren't allowed to pick through peoples trash in most if not all places anyway. Not even trash collectors are allowed to take your trash home - only put it in the truck. Think of it as a privacy thing if nothing else, but you put out the trash with the expectation it goes to the dump, not someone elses house.

This case to me has nothing to do with a disabled person or not. Its all about downright dishonesty, and then a handful of followers (on this forum and others) who look for any loophole or sliver of doubt to defend a criminal. Its an interesting phenomenon, the people who ignore common sense and cold hard facts, to grasp at unlikely scenarios and far fetched explanations. After reading the comments under the actual story and thinking where do these people come from, I was saddened to find more of the same here on MR.

[KootenayJim]

There's no question it was an honest mistake, and luckily it was recovered, but how does one just forget a specialized, $10,000 laptop?

I mean, I always do a pat check before I go anywhere- wallet, watch, keys and phone and none of those items even approach the $10,000 range, except maybe the iPhone w/contract...:p.


Try doing that with a challenged kid and who knows what other pressures
I once was taking the dog to the vet 30 miles, and forgot that I left the dog at home ha ha:rolleyes:

[Antares]

I fixed that for you.

What the story actually says is:



There's no mention of trash pick up or even how this local community handles garbage collection. For all we know it could be a city that requires all trash be put in a can at the end of the drive way. You make it sound as if the device was left right next to the garbage pile on trash pick up day. The point is we don't even know what the "curb" actually means. Was is the front of the house or a private access drive? Is the house in a regular neighborhood or is it a gated community with strict HOA rules? We don't know. Sorry, you can't defend your point with assumptions.

Exactly. That's why, in my previous post, I stated that there was not enough information. It can go either way. If the computer was left in a trash pickup location and taking someone's trash is not illegal, then what the guy did was perfectly fine (from a legal standpoint). Maybe it would not have been ethical and not something a "nice" person would do...however, it would have been perfectly fine, from a legal standpoint. That's simply a fact and not an opinion. People willingly throw valuable things in the trash all the time.

But I absoultely agree with your point that there is NOTHING to indicate that the device was left on the curb like trash. She was loading her daughter in the car and forgot it. It happens sometimes.

If I somehow drop my iPhone on the ground, does it automatically become "trash" and the person that finds it can just claim that I must have wanted to throw it away? :confused:

And there was nothing stated that indicated that the device was NOT left on the curb like trash. There simply was not enough information given to state it definitively, either way. Dropping an iPhone is a bad comparison as that would obviously be something someone lost or left behind. That would not be clear with an unusual object which may look like junk being discarded.

Again, nobody is defending the guy. He should have tried double checking with the owner of the house and verifying if he can take it. That is what I would do or any other nice, ethical person, like me, would do. But, as I've said, assuming that the device was left in a trash pickup area and taking things from trash is legal...the guy taking the device was technically okay. You can't argue with that.

[appleguy123]

The product does look like a cheap toy that could be trash. https://equipment.ar-ican.org/Items/ShowPhoto.aspx?ItemID=30640