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arn
Jul 29, 2002, 08:06 AM
Xlr8yourmac.com (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com) published a mailing to Apple Developers, requesting general feedback about the iBook and Powerbook lines:

"Portables Team Requests Feedback
Apple's Portables development team would like to know how they're doing with the PowerBook and iBook. From your perspective as users and developers, please comment on current PowerBook and/or iBook product features and functionalities that are compelling to PC users looking to switch. Please categorize your comments as hardware, software, and Mac OS, and email to powerbookmarketing@apple.com before August 10, 2002. "

While it was aimed towards Developers, EddieB notes that even free ADC membership accounts received this notice.

al256
Jul 29, 2002, 08:24 AM
I wonder what will come from this inquiry; I hope we’ll some better software bundles with the iBook.

drastik
Jul 29, 2002, 08:31 AM
Looks like the next wave of switch is going to be aimed at the protable market, maybe even enterprise. I haven't seeen any print ads, I'd think that would be a good way to go.:)

EddieB
Jul 29, 2002, 08:42 AM
I have been signed up for the no-pay ADC member ship, and I also got this message in the ACD news(issue #331,[3] under company news.) So I'm pretty sure anyone can make suggestions, and if you really want to and still don't think you can then sign up for the no-pay ADC member ship then you should be able to.

mymemory
Jul 29, 2002, 09:35 AM
I just wrote them.

Basictly I told them that a used Pismo is a better deal than any of the new Powerbooks. No one wants to buy a used Ti, at list no one with real experience in Powerbooks. I just need to say that to expect 2 Ti on my laps, it always happend to me :D.

drastik
Jul 29, 2002, 09:54 AM
what are pismos going for these days, I love mine, and probably wouldn't part with it, but a new tower sounds inviting, as I do very little portable computing anymore.;)

Quark
Jul 29, 2002, 10:30 AM
I think that it is a great idea for Apple to ask these questions.

My Mom got a Sony notebook (itty-bitty thing) about a year ago, but she is never used a computer before.

She is finding it very frustrating, so I want to get her an iBook for Christmas, with the bigger screen and Jaguar (of course).

But the biggest draw backs are it is quite thick and heavy. I would love to see a much leaner iBook.

Until that happens, she will have to suffer with the Microcrap OS she has.

Take Care,
Quark

Pants
Jul 29, 2002, 10:39 AM
I love the little iBook, mainly for its small (portable!) size. However, why are the USB ports on the left, so that my apple mouse (with stupidly short cable) has a 2"x2" range of movement when used by a right hander? Most of us are right handers , not deviant lefties!!!

Future Man
Jul 29, 2002, 10:45 AM
I just wrote them and told them to recommend/apple certify a firewire drive for a scratch disk situation with a portable! Last time I checked they don't even recommend using them!:(

drastik
Jul 29, 2002, 11:30 AM
Yeah, firewire drives are not supported for FCP, something I would love to see. Really, though, the TiBooks are only meant for video on the go, and you can get the internal drive space, especially if you work in OfflineRT most ofthe time. I actually do this on my Pismo for rough cutting, and it works jsut fine. I transfer to my tower for rendering, though. You really should keep scratch on a seperate drive in FCP, however, so a supported Firewire would be nice.;)

LethalWolfe
Jul 29, 2002, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Future Man
I just wrote them and told them to recommend/apple certify a firewire drive for a scratch disk situation with a portable! Last time I checked they don't even recommend using them!:(

To the best of my knowledge I don't think any NLE solutions offically support Firewire drives (it's not like Apple is behind the time or anything). The rule of thumb is to get a 7200 RPM drive that uses the Oxford 911 chipset.


Lethal

mymemory
Jul 29, 2002, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Pants
I love the little iBook, mainly for its small (portable!) size. However, why are the USB ports on the left, so that my apple mouse (with stupidly short cable) has a 2"x2" range of movement when used by a right hander? Most of us are right handers , not deviant lefties!!!

Man, write that down and send it to them. That is a very interesting point, I do not have an iBook, I like them too but a Pismo is faster and you can get it for $1000 or may be less. As long Apple doesn't show up new AND COMPETITIVES computers the used market would be the best choice.

Over Achiever
Jul 29, 2002, 12:43 PM
I sure hope this means they'll update them soon. I sure think there is a minor update the iBook (speed) in august, to boost back to school sales. What I really hope for is that they'll update the tibooks along with the pro desktops. Prob won't happen, but wouldn't it be nice if they updated right before one bought it :D (i'm buying end august)

So i'm guess the next major rev will prob be MWSF then? Will it be sooner with the feedback? is this a good sign?


-----
Newbie be me, stupid is he,
.mac isn't free, sheeeeesh!

:o another dumb signature

Future Man
Jul 29, 2002, 02:04 PM
st of my knowledge I don't think any NLE solutions offically support Firewire drives (it's not like Apple is behind the time or anything). The rule of thumb is to get a 7200 RPM drive that uses the Oxford 911 chipset.

LethalWolfe you are right on the money, the 911 chipset and 7200 rpm are good rules of thumb for ext. FW scratch disks. But I still know of instances where drives with these specs have eaten media or dropped frames. I think Promax (www.promax.com) has some sort of FCP cert. process for all the FW drives they retail. However if you are looking for something that will simply not screw you in a pinch I think the Granite Digital enclosure and an IBM 120GXP are the way to go.

For the enclosure go to http://www.granitedigital.com

And the drive http://www.googlegear.com

For whatever reason I hear that this setup works particularly well with the tibooks. The enclosure sports the oxford chipset and the drive runs at 7200 RPMs. Again, I don't know why the enclosure is so solid a solution, but it is generally agreed on as the Pro's choice for a firewire drive solution.

I know that there are a lot of FW drives out there that will work. But especially since Apple sort of pushes the idea of a mobile editing solution for pros they should have a certified drive. Not everyone wants to work in Offline RT. Which by the way is an Apple adopted FCP hack (originally developed by Phillip Hodgetts I believe). It works fine and I have used it in the past for documentary footage, but if it does corrupt and its on the same disk as your project files and apps, well, you know where that can go. Plus you can't print it to any form of draft video. So you have to go back and redigitize ALL the footage you want to dump on VHS to clients. And considering that you use the codec to deal w/ massive amounts of footage, this can be very time consuming.

But alas all my work is done on my P-mac, so all of this is really academic for me anyway. But When I do go mobile I want the same dependability that the internal drive bridges offer, and I want it in writing from Apple!:eek:

lordsinforge
Jul 29, 2002, 02:33 PM
It is worthy of note that the new mice do in fact have enough cord that they can wrap around the back of an iBook. It's still a little tight at times but is accually possible.

LS

drastik
Jul 29, 2002, 02:58 PM
This is the advantage to a Pismo, as there are expansion drives for the drive bay still out there. Its not as good as having a media drive in a tower, but its nice anyway. I mulling the G4 upgrade for my Pismo, the 500 MHZ and altivec would supposedly allow for some realtime effects, which would make my mobility more mobile. Those upgrades don't have an L3 on them, however, and I haven't heard any big thumbs up for them yet (nothing bad either). I don't know, but ralistically, this is a 300$ part that saves a few grand over a new TiBook, 14.4 inch screen is pretty good, and SVideo outs are helpfull too, Vmemory is a little low though. Anyone think its a good deal, or should I just wait for a cheaper Ti?

Pants
Jul 29, 2002, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by lordsinforge
It is worthy of note that the new mice do in fact have enough cord that they can wrap around the back of an iBook. It's still a little tight at times but is accually possible.

LS

yeah they do, but like you say it is a little tight. I also find the power cord placement doesnt help - it fouls the (tight) mouse area. I found this all kind of odd given the rest of the design/useability effort that went into the iBook.

billiam0878
Jul 29, 2002, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by Pants


yeah they do, but like you say it is a little tight. I also find the power cord placement doesnt help - it fouls the (tight) mouse area. I found this all kind of odd given the rest of the design/useability effort that went into the iBook.

Well I guess Apple is going to have to give us a wireless bluetooth mouse! ;)

Bill

skunk
Jul 29, 2002, 08:08 PM
I agree about the mouse. I ordered an iBook early on from the Apple Store and sent it back when I found the mouse unusable.

askien
Jul 29, 2002, 09:08 PM
I own an iBook, all my hardware purchases in the future will be iBooks/Powerbooks. I develop software in Cocoa. I am a senior in college.

This is what I want in the iBook:

- A G4 processor at any speed. I think all Apple hardware should provide Altivec.
- The ability to swap batteries while sleeping, just like in the powerbook.
- Better quality sound output
- Keep the 12.1 display. This is why I have an iBook and not a Powerbook.
- If Apple goes with 2 or 3-button mice, I would like the iBook to have that too -- but only to have the same abilities as Powermacs/IMacs -- this is only if Apple goes the 2/3-button route.

That's it, otherwise, iBooks are incredibly good machines.

Looking at the powerbook, I can't think of anything I would change. It is the perfect machine. How can you improve perfect?

Thank you.

bretm
Jul 29, 2002, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by mymemory


Man, write that down and send it to them. That is a very interesting point, I do not have an iBook, I like them too but a Pismo is faster and you can get it for $1000 or may be less. As long Apple doesn't show up new AND COMPETITIVES computers the used market would be the best choice.

Huh? Pismos topped out at 400mhz, right? 100mhz bus. The newer ibooks have the same bus, and faster processors. I'm going to assume faster graphics as well.

bretm
Jul 29, 2002, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by askien
I own an iBook, all my hardware purchases in the future will be iBooks/Powerbooks. I develop software in Cocoa. I am a senior in college.

This is what I want in the iBook:

- A G4 processor at any speed. I think all Apple hardware should provide Altivec.
- The ability to swap batteries while sleeping, just like in the powerbook.
- Better quality sound output
- Keep the 12.1 display. This is why I have an iBook and not a Powerbook.
- If Apple goes with 2 or 3-button mice, I would like the iBook to have that too -- but only to have the same abilities as Powermacs/IMacs -- this is only if Apple goes the 2/3-button route.

That's it, otherwise, iBooks are incredibly good machines.

Looking at the powerbook, I can't think of anything I would change. It is the perfect machine. How can you improve perfect?



Give it the features of the pismo with the speed of a tibook. The pismo had removable drives. The same drive slot could also be a second battery instead. So you could get 8-10 hours of laptop time. You could swap out a zip for a cd-rom. Or a floppy. That was great design.
Thank you.

bretm
Jul 29, 2002, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by drastik
This is the advantage to a Pismo, as there are expansion drives for the drive bay still out there. Its not as good as having a media drive in a tower, but its nice anyway. I mulling the G4 upgrade for my Pismo, the 500 MHZ and altivec would supposedly allow for some realtime effects, which would make my mobility more mobile. Those upgrades don't have an L3 on them, however, and I haven't heard any big thumbs up for them yet (nothing bad either). I don't know, but ralistically, this is a 300$ part that saves a few grand over a new TiBook, 14.4 inch screen is pretty good, and SVideo outs are helpfull too, Vmemory is a little low though. Anyone think its a good deal, or should I just wait for a cheaper Ti?

Check the specs. I'm pretty sure you only get rt in FCP on a laptop with a 667.

ibookin'
Jul 30, 2002, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by askien
- A G4 processor at any speed. I think all Apple hardware should provide Altivec.
- Keep the 12.1 display. This is why I have an iBook and not a Powerbook.

askien is right. For me, these are the two things I would want in a portable. A really tiny iBook with a 10.4" screen and no optical drive would be pushing it, but I think the 12.1" iBook is the perfect size as it is. From a cooling standpoint, the iBook does have a fan inside it. It never turns on, suggesting that a hotter chip would not be too much of an issue, as there is already enough air circulation to cool a G3 without using a fan. I would like to see the G4 iBook run at a clock speed of about 600-800MHz (assuming they release a new Ti that runs at 933 and 1GHz).

Going back to the iBook's size, the 14.1" iBook is too large. A Pismo with a G4 upgrade is faster, cheaper, and more expandable.

One more thing, I would also like to see a 32MB Radeon 7500 in the iBook to take advantage of QE, although my 500MHz iBook with 384MBs of ram does run Jaguar pretty nicely.

ibookin'
Jul 30, 2002, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by bretm

Give it the features of the pismo with the speed of a tibook.
Sorry to double-post, but if Apple did that they would lose TiBook sales. Apple will not make the same mistake they did with the iBook 466/Powerbook G3 400. Apple lost sales because there was no compelling reason (other than larger screen and more expandability) to purchase the Powerbook over the iBook. Granted, Apple did sell 500MHz Pismos to speed-hungry mac lovers, but the 400MHz sold badly as a result of an iBook with almost the same specs.

As I said before, Apple will not make the same mistake again.

topicolo
Jul 30, 2002, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by askien
I own an iBook, all my hardware purchases in the future will be iBooks/Powerbooks. I develop software in Cocoa. I am a senior in college.

This is what I want in the iBook:

- A G4 processor at any speed. I think all Apple hardware should provide Altivec.
- The ability to swap batteries while sleeping, just like in the powerbook.
- Better quality sound output
- Keep the 12.1 display. This is why I have an iBook and not a Powerbook.
- If Apple goes with 2 or 3-button mice, I would like the iBook to have that too -- but only to have the same abilities as Powermacs/IMacs -- this is only if Apple goes the 2/3-button route.

That's it, otherwise, iBooks are incredibly good machines.

Looking at the powerbook, I can't think of anything I would change. It is the perfect machine. How can you improve perfect?

Thank you.

I don't think the G4 is worth the effort. It's slow (compared to the Sahara), and Altivec isn't supported in many programs. If they gave the ibook a 32meg Radeon 7500 mobility, it would more than offset the lack of Altivec in 10.2.

In fact, if I had my way, Apple would switch exclusively to G3s for all of its consumer level products and ditch Altivec altogether now that we have Jaguar

DakotaGuy
Jul 30, 2002, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by topicolo


I don't think the G4 is worth the effort. It's slow (compared to the Sahara), and Altivec isn't supported in many programs. If they gave the ibook a 32meg Radeon 7500 mobility, it would more than offset the lack of Altivec in 10.2.

In fact, if I had my way, Apple would switch exclusively to G3s for all of its consumer level products and ditch Altivec altogether now that we have Jaguar

I would have to agree...I would imagine that Jaguar will bring the new iBook up to TiBook standards for most tasks. Also I would love to see a shootout between the new 700MHz iBook and the 667MHz TiBook running Jaguar as far as most finder and scrolling tasks are concerned. I have already noticed some benchmark tests where the iBook 700 did awesome against a G4 machine. Give it a faster bus, a little more MHz, more video RAM, and a little faster harddrive, and 10.2...and I think it would be knocking on any G4's door...

jefhatfield
Jul 31, 2002, 01:22 AM
now, for ibook:

give us $1099 model
speed bumps up to 800 mhz...or even faster

by mid-2003:

$999 model
1ghz speed ibook

by late-2003:

g4 processor in ibook
superdrive in ibook

2004-2005:

dual g4 in ibook or g5 in ibook...basically, a parallel but slightly slower evolution than the tibook

rojazz
Jul 31, 2002, 03:08 AM
well, my personal hopes is that it'll be something that can last me a few years. i'm planning to buy an ibook for college, and basically i want the damn thing to run quartz extreme, otherwise it's not worth buying. why should i buy a computer that will be unsupported by a major feature of 10.2, especially if i'm going to have it for a while?

i'm also hoping they keep the 12" screen. that's the main reason i really like the ibook: it's small. and if it gets a slight case update (more metallic), it'll be even sexier.

jefhatfield
Jul 31, 2002, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by rojazz
well, my personal hopes is that it'll be something that can last me a few years. i'm planning to buy an ibook for college, and basically i want the damn thing to run quartz extreme, otherwise it's not worth buying. why should i buy a computer that will be unsupported by a major feature of 10.2, especially if i'm going to have it for a while?

i'm also hoping they keep the 12" screen. that's the main reason i really like the ibook: it's small. and if it gets a slight case update (more metallic), it'll be even sexier.

if you plan to go to college for four years, realistically plan on getting a new machine every two years

this field moves fast now, but will even move faster in the future...obsolescence is built into this field so techies like me always have jobs designing, manufacturing, and repairing computers, peripherals, and networks

and software side techies move forward, too... always making new titles and versions pushing the hardware side to keep up

davei
Jul 31, 2002, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield


if you plan to go to college for four years, realistically plan on getting a new machine every two years


Two years? Comp sci, math, some arts stuff - maybe, but if you're mostly cranking out papers and surfing for lecture notes, I don't think four years is out of the question.

As a science/english major, I survived 4 years with an original iMac, and all I did was upgrade the HD (due to MP3s)... then again, I never played any games :)

Over Achiever
Jul 31, 2002, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield

if you plan to go to college for four years, realistically plan on getting a new machine every two years


Valid points, yet I hope that the TiBook will last that long...no way i'm shelling over three grand every two years! I'm still holding out for 1 GHz processor and DDR ram. Bluetooth inclusion is nice but not necessary...until they have wireless bluetooth keyboard/mouse combo. I really don't mind that knob sticking out. Superdrive?...bah, I won't have the 1 grand for a good DV camcorder anyway. 'Sides, it won't come in this small form-factor in a while, at least until the beginning of next year. I am happy to be wrong though. Anyway, the fp iMac will fit my DVD burning desires, should I ever get them. And the 17" is nicer to work with than the beautiful 15.2" pb display. Anyway, no one really cares, not even me. :o

jefhatfield
Jul 31, 2002, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by davei


Two years? Comp sci, math, some arts stuff - maybe, but if you're mostly cranking out papers and surfing for lecture notes, I don't think four years is out of the question.

As a science/english major, I survived 4 years with an original iMac, and all I did was upgrade the HD (due to MP3s)... then again, I never played any games :)

and i survived in college, too without a computer

of course, that was years ago when the typewriter was the standard word processor and the apple II+ had just hit the shelves with its 1 mhz processor (in 1979-80)

but today, with software moving at the speed of light, no laptop, for the college student (and most likely game player and mp3 devotee) can make the ibook last four years...high end tibook with RAM at 1.5 gigs...sure...if it doesn't get damaged or stolen

get two ibooks over the four or even five year period of school...it's the better value