Apple and Overall PC Industry Post Solid Shipment Gains in Fourth Quarter 2009

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/14/apple-and-overall-pc-industry-post-solid-shipment-gains-in-fourth-quarter-2009/)

Research firms Gartner and IDC yesterday released their preliminary quarterly personal computer shipment data, offering up a picture of market performance during the fourth quarter of 2009 and for the year. As usual, the two firms' data sets contain some differences, but both reveal a strong rebound for the PC industry, with worldwide shipments growing between 15 and 22% and U.S. shipments growing approximately 25% between the fourth quarters of 2008 and 2009.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2010/01/14/093846-gartner_4Q09_us_trend.png

Apple's U.S. Market Share Trend: 1Q06-4Q09 (Gartner)
According to Gartner's report (http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1279215), Apple slipped behind Toshiba into fifth place in the U.S. market in grabbing a 7.5% share, down 0.2% over the year-ago quarter. The number is also down from an 8.8% share in the previous quarter (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/14/apple-continues-to-demonstrate-sales-growth-in-third-quarter-2009/), although Apple typically sees a decline in market share in the fourth quarter of each year as it comes off of the strength of its third quarters buoyed by educational sales.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2010/01/14/093846-gartner_4Q09_us.png

Gartner's Preliminary U.S. PC Vendor Unit Shipment Estimates for 4Q09 (Thousands of Units)
Apple's U.S. unit growth for the quarter was 23.3% year-over-year, trailing only slightly the U.S. industry growth of 26.5%, but fell victim to astounding 70.7% growth from Toshiba that propelled the Japanese computer maker past Apple for the quarter.

IDC's report (http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?sessionId=&containerId=prUS22161710) paints a slightly different picture, showing Apple gaining market share in the U.S. as it slightly outpaced overall industry performance. According to IDC, Apple's U.S. shipments grew 31% year-over-year for the fourth quarter, ahead of the 24% growth of the overall industry and allowing Apple to move from 7.0% market share in the fourth quarter of 2008 to 7.4% in the fourth quarter of 2009. As in Gartner's study, however, Apple was still leapfrogged by Toshiba's 71.5% growth, pushing the Mac maker into fifth place in the U.S. market.

For the year, IDC's numbers show Apple edging out Toshiba for the fourth position in the U.S. market, claiming 8.0% market share on over 5.5 million computers shipped. That number was up slightly from 7.9% for calendar year 2008, and came on 8.2% unit growth. As usual, neither Gartner nor IDC covered Apple's worldwide performance for the fourth quarter or the full year, as the company does not rank in the top 5 by global shipments.

Article Link: Apple and Overall PC Industry Post Solid Shipment Gains in Fourth Quarter 2009 (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/14/apple-and-overall-pc-industry-post-solid-shipment-gains-in-fourth-quarter-2009/)

[cmaier]

Apple continuing to hold steady despite a crappy economy that has demolished the sale of luxory goods and despite the supposed rise of the crackerjack box netbook is pretty impressive.

[gnasher729]

So how many of these Toshiba computers are $300 netbooks?

[cxny]

Add 10% for tablets

[*LTD*]

Apple has been enjoying record Mac sales, quarter afer quarter, in a recession, outpacing the rest of the industry. It seems that netbook sales were ven stronger, for obvious (and rather disturbing) reasons.

According to IDC, Apple's U.S. shipments grew 31% year-over-year for the fourth quarter, ahead of the 24% growth of the overall industry and allowing Apple to move from 7.0% market share in the fourth quarter of 2008 to 7.4% in the fourth quarter of 2009.

I worry for the other box-makers pushing netbooks. Not a healthy way to do business over the long-term. Vendors making damaging price cuts to increase share is not all that impressive, and a strategy that only results in an inflated and artificial picture of actual performance.

Dell, Acer and HP are in a race to the bottom, and have essentially had zero impact on Apple's ownership of the Premium end of the market.

And since when has Apple ever competed with $300 crippleware? Those who opted for a netbook were never going to buy a fully-featured PC (much less a Mac) anyway. Cheap commodity units always sell, no matter what the state of the economy.

The market is quite ready for a shakeup. Bring on the tablet.


http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/3152/100113gartner02.gif

[gctwnl]

So how many of these Toshiba computers are $300 netbooks? What about revenue instead of unit numbers?

[DipDog3]

Yea, but you know those numbers are not the whole truth since a lot of those are $300 netbooks!

[Godgem]

Why?:
1) Apple have problem with shipment 27 imac
2) New macbook have some downsides no firewire an remote...
3) Mac pro is expensive compare new hardware (imac i7 score better in some test)
4) Some people waiting for tablet

[mac1984user]

After having so many problems getting my girlfriend's brand new computer accept any operating system thrown at it (other than Vista 32-bit), I am saddened that we helped contribute to this increase in market share (actually...no...we bought in the UK). The idea that a company who, at this very moment, is still shipping Satellite Pros with Vista 32-bit is both disconcerting and disgraceful. I'm always pushing the Mac, but when people's finances are low and they HAVE to go PC, I have always felt confident suggesting Toshiba. Not any more. UGH!

[Pachang]

Why?:
1) Apple have problem with shipment 27 imac
2) New macbook have some downsides no firewire an remote...
3) Mac pro is expensive compare new hardware (imac i7 score better in some test)
4) Some people waiting for tablet

Answer:
No one apart from nerds who hang around here know about any of that stuff.

[*LTD*]

Yea, but you know those numbers are not the whole truth since a lot of those are $300 netbooks!

A loss of only 0.2% marketshare in the wake of all this cheap commodity junk flooding the market (recession-bait) is pretty damned impressive. Apple sidestepped the whole netbook craze, ended up selling Macs in record numbers, retained the Premium market, retained their overall share, and are now poised to unleash what could be a total mobile computing game-changer.

If you read the numbers behind the numbers, it isn't looking too good for the other box makers.

Why?:
1) Apple have problem with shipment 27 imac
2) New macbook have some downsides no firewire an remote...
3) Mac pro is expensive compare new hardware (imac i7 score better in some test)
4) Some people waiting for tablet

Why what?

Apple ended up selling more Macs, quarter after quarter - record sales, and this quarter that's about to end is expected to be another record-breaker for Mac sales. There has been no problem at all with Apple's Mac sales. Your points don't really add up when it comes to Apple's numbers. It's simply that the flood of cheap netbooks is a reality, and while it's not really hurting Apple, it's definitely hurting the other box-makers. You need to move a helluva lot of netbooks to make even half-decent numbers.

There is nothing Apple or anyone else can do about the onslaught of cheap, disposable junk that has flooded the market during a recession. This is what's so worrying. Netbooks are ruining the industry.

[Stella]

They look good, despite Apple's perception of being expensive along with a ( almost world wide ) recession.

Any stats on the more important world wide figures? ( World wide figures being vastly more important than one single market, IMO)

[polee]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry9500/4.7.0.186 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/167)

I don't think Toshiba netbooks are hotsellers. It must be their portege range which has had quite a price drop recently. I could be wrong but am just thinking aloud.

[*LTD*]

What about revenue instead of unit numbers?

Shipments vs. revenue. Yes, they're two different things. Shipping more units doesn't always mean you're making more money.

The netbooks surge seems to suggest that mid-range PCs running Windows just don't cut it in terms of perceived value. People seem to be opting for the very low-end (bad for the industry) or the very high-end (good for Apple.)

[iDisk]

The Toshiba gain shouldn't be a shocker.

Toshiba is the 5th Largest PC Manufacturer in the WORLD. Apple isn't even in the TOP 5.

These are just expected numbers overall. It's going to be awhile before Apple makes the TOP 5 in these categories.

I highly doubt that's there biggest concern anyway, the numbers go up for Apple, what else is new.

[ericinboston]

So how many of these Toshiba computers are $300 netbooks?

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

First, these charts simply list percentages of machines...which means they could be netbooks, notebooks, desktops, workstations, or servers.

Second, Netbook growth has been high and steady (and no, they're not all $300...up to $450 realistically)...but there are dozens (yes, dozens) of PC laptops priced at $449-$699 which is still far cheaper than Apple's $999 base laptop. And there are dozens of PC desktops that are great machines for $599 compared to Apple's $1199+ Macintosh lineup. And Psychology will easily tell you that humans don't like seeing extra digits in a price tag...or even $599 vs. $600.

Overall I think this is ok news for Apple (and its shareholders)...but let's not forget that Apple has always offered expensive computers. Period. Readers here can chime in all they want about "the experience" but Apple is expensive and hence that's one of the major factors that for 20 years Apple has remained below 10% Marketshare. I'm not bashing. I'm stating facts. Add to this mix that Apple, over the past 5+ years, has really moved away from the computer industry and moved into the consumer electronics industry (iPods, iPhones, iTunes, iPod Touch gaming devices, etc.) and even changed their company name to reflect this move.

I sincerely hope Apple, someday, breaks the 10% personal computer Marketshare mark. For the 2+ yeara that Vista was a fiasco, Apple did a great job building personal computer marketshare. I emphasize building. However, Apple now has to contend with a new and highly respected Windows7 versus Vista being a disaster 6 days after its release. Apple will have to work very very hard if their goal is to break 10% personal computer marketshare. But, maybe marketshare is not what Apple is concerned about (which is fine too so long as profits are great).

-Eric

[iDisk]

What about revenue instead of unit numbers?

That's where Apple does well in.

TOSHIBA REVENUE: 6,654billion (YEN) Numbers are down as of March 31st 2009

TOSHIBA NET INCOME: -343.6billion (YEN) As of that same date.

APPLE: It's just GREEN Across the board.

As long as there's a Green Apple, that's really what matters.

[muskratboy]

70% growth?!?

what, did toshiba come out with a slate computer or something? :rolleyes:

[ericinboston]

There is nothing Apple or anyone else can do about the onslaught of cheap, disposable junk that has flooded the market during a recession. This is what's so worrying. Netbooks are ruining the industry.

What? What flood of junk? Please list. Sure, maybe a few vendors have dropped prices (or offered Sales) on laptop and desktop units...but the real recession only has lasted a bit over 1 full year. PC manufacturers cannot and will not have knee-jerk reactions and whip up a hunk of junk just to save someone $75. It takes time to build/design any computer...then market it, etc. as well as all the research BEFORE even starting. This process does not take 60 days...more like 9 months.

Netbooks serve a great purpose...they (introduced a few years ago) are fantastic sub $500 machines that are super light, have great batteries (6+ hours), and are perfect for web surfing and very light work as well as intermittent use (meaning, due to their small 10" screens, you're not sitting their for 3 hours straight like you would on a 15" laptop or full desktop). I have a Dell I got for $300 (Jan 2008, well before the big recession) and I use it for vacations...and when it's home it acts as an iTunes player for my home stereo (streaming iTunes from another computer). $300. For a lot of people who want a 2nd, cheap, not-gonna-use-it-that-much computer, netbooks are fantastic. Bash them all you want but they provide a niche just like the (ahem, far overpriced Macbook Air for $1599) the Macbook Air or the AppleTV or the $2500 Mac Pro.


-Eric

[*LTD*]

PC manufacturers cannot and will not have knee-jerk reactions and whip up a hunk of junk just to save someone $75.

They did. Which is why they really aren't making any money.

http://microelectronics.cbronline.com/news/toshiba_in_the_red_as_q4_revenue_dips_20_to_17_billion_130509

Toshiba in the red as Q4 revenue dips 20% to $17 billion
Published:13-May-2009
By Datamonitor staff writer

Sales in Europe fell 47% to $1.9 billion

Toshiba has reported a net loss of JPY 184 billion ($1.9 billion) for the fourth quarter 2008, compared to net profit of JPY 1.25 billion ($12.6m) in the year-ago quarter, on revenue down 20.4% at JPY 1,671.5 billion ($16.9 billion). It made an operating loss of JPY 182.9 billion ($1.8 billion), compared to JPY 4.6 billion ($46.8m) in the year-ago quarter.


http://www.itworld.com/business/68159/hp-revenue-drops-tough-climate

HP revenue drops in tough climate
by Robert McMillan

May 19, 2009, 07:35 PM — IDG News Service —
Computer industry bellwether Hewlett-Packard reported a 3 percent drop in revenue as its major lines of business continued to be hammered by the global recession.

The company also became the latest technology vendor to resort to layoffs in order to cut costs. Over the next 12 months, HP will lay off about 2 percent of its work force, or about 6,000 employees, HP Chief Financial Officer Cathie Lesjak said during a conference call with financial analysts Tuesday. HP employs 321,000 worldwide.


These box-makers are bleeding money left and right. It's all about the race to the bottom. Cheaper, crippled hardware at low prices is the name of the game.

[gglockner]

Simple explanation: Microsoft introduced Windows 7 in Q4 2009. PC makers expected to see a corresponding jump in sales. This should continue for a few more months. Check again in Q2/Q3 2010.

[*LTD*]

Simple explanation: Microsoft introduced Windows 7 in Q4 2009. PC makers expected to see a corresponding jump in sales. This should continue for a few more months. Check again in Q2/Q3 2010.

This makes a lot of sense as well. No doubt that Windows 7 has had a positive effect.

[Godgem]

Why what?

Apple ended up selling more Macs, quarter after quarter - record sales, and this quarter that's about to end is expected to be another record-breaker for Mac sales. There has been no problem at all with Apple's Mac sales. Your points don't really add up when it comes to Apple's numbers. It's simply that the flood of cheap netbooks is a reality, and while it's not really hurting Apple, it's definitely hurting the other box-makers. You need to move a helluva lot of netbooks to make even half-decent numbers.

There is nothing Apple or anyone else can do about the onslaught of cheap, disposable junk that has flooded the market during a recession. This is what's so worrying. Netbooks are ruining the industry.

Netbook are there for while, Yes apple dont make low end...
Everybody know that,

But current line of notebook is not fresh, and new macbook is a bit disapoitment

[scroto]

You guy's just can't handle the fact that Apple is in 5th place (weak) and their computer sales are stagnant.
As for netbooks they serve a purpose or people wouldn't buy them. The only reason Apple doesn't have a netbook is because no one will pay $1000 for a netbook.

[ericinboston]

They did. Which is why they really aren't making any money.
...

These box-makers are bleeding money left and right. It's all about the race to the bottom. Cheaper, crippled hardware at low prices is the name of the game.

So:

1)You are not going to reply to anything else I had to say in the post?

2)You are using words like "crippled"...not the industry...and you refer to no products to prove your "crippled" point. The Windows PC industry has been selling very well and killing Apple at Marketshare for decades. It has been a recession for 12+ months...every company under the sun has laid off people. Do you also recall the mid-90s (when times were just dandy I might add) when Apple was ready to close its doors? So what's all the bashing on a few PC vendors that DURING A MAJOR RECESSION has to lower prices and/or lay off some people?

The Windows PC industry is a completely different industry than Apple. You should know that...everything from operating system licensing to hardware choices to retailers. The Windows PC industry's strategy has always been about offering far more choices than Apple (as well as their fellow PC vendors) while also providing far more pricepoints. Period.

Apple makes great products...and Apple makes a hefty profit. This topic is about shipments which equate to marketshare.

[Eidorian]

I didn't realize Toshiba made netbooks until I searched for them today. They really have to be selling something else because they're barely a blip in the netbook market.

[ericinboston]

I didn't realize Toshiba made netbooks until I searched for them today. They really have to be selling something else because they're barely a blip in the netbook market.

Correct...Asus and Acer and Samung and HP dominate. I think Toshiba recently showed some at CES...

[VenusianSky]

Why do people have to spin this article into a Apple vs PC competition? The article is simply stating an overall increase of computer sales in the 4Q.

Toshiba sells many laptops in the enterprise market. They have been a competitor in the laptop market for as far back as I can remember.

[Perrumpo]

This makes a lot of sense as well. No doubt that Windows 7 has had a positive effect.

As did large December discounts for the holidays this year due to the economy. Dell was nearly giving stuff away, whereas we know Apple's discounts are slight.

[iDisk]

So:

1)You are not going to reply to anything else I had to say in the post?

2)You are using words like "crippled"...not the industry...and you refer to no products to prove your "crippled" point.

Some accept defeat different then most. ;) You obviously have won your argument.

[cmaier]

You guy's just can't handle the fact that Apple is in 5th place (weak) and their computer sales are stagnant.
As for netbooks they serve a purpose or people wouldn't buy them. The only reason Apple doesn't have a netbook is because no one will pay $1000 for a netbook.

5th place is a fine showing. Apple and its shareholders care about profits, not sales.

[*LTD*]

But current line of notebook is not fresh, and new macbook is a bit disapoitment

Alright. So what does this have to do with Apple's numbers? Apple ended up selling more of these stale disappointments quarter after quarter. I'm not sure how you're trying to tie this in with Apple's numbers. Clearly, the consumers handing Apple these record Mac sales are quite pleased with Apple's current offerings. So whose judgment are we looking at here?

You guy's just can't handle the fact that Apple is in 5th place (weak) and their computer sales are stagnant.

Stagnant? Have you SEEN the numbers for Apple's Mac sales for the past 6 quarters or so? Not only has each quarter been a record-breaker (in a recession!) but Apple has consistently outpaced the rest of the industry in growth. Mac sales have been explosive, all throughout 2009. And this quarter's report is expected to show another record-breaker in Mac sales. In fact, Apple was pretty much selling more of everything in 2009.

Apple owns the Premium end, not only the most profitable end, but the one that builds your brand like nothing else. There's only so far you can push the Premium end in terms of unit sales, however. The top of the retail pyramid is narrow. Cost of entry into this end isn't cheap. Yet Apple maintained its share and still ended up selling more Macs despite a recession, completely bucking the "you have to lower your prices" trend and the "you can't sell $1000+ computers" trend.

Macs are not $300 junkware, nor do they compete with them. Cheap stuff sells in mass quantities. Especially during a recession. Nothing you can do about that. I'm more worried about PC manufacturers' midrange offerings that seem to be hurting from their low-end shipments. Toshiba is in an interesting case, however, possibly running counter to this trend.

We know you're here to troll and bait people, but at least make it seem you're up on current events before you decide to lower the quality of a thread.

[cumanzor]

I didn't realize Toshiba made netbooks until I searched for them today. They really have to be selling something else because they're barely a blip in the netbook market.

Yes, notebooks. I've seen a lot of new models coming from Toshiba recently. In my opinion, Toshiba notebooks are of way better quality than HP or Dell.

[Eidorian]

Yes, notebooks. I've seen a lot of new models coming from Toshiba recently. In my opinion, Toshiba notebooks are of way better quality than HP or Dell.The HP Envy 15 has my attention right now.

[*LTD*]

The HP Envy 15 has my attention right now.

Wow, does that ever look familiar!

[Godgem]

Alright. So what does this have to do with Apple's numbers? Apple ended up selling more of these stale disappointments quarter after quarter. I'm not sure how you're trying to tie this in with Apple's numbers. Clearly, the consumers handing Apple these record Mac sales are quite pleased with Apple's current offerings. So whose judgment are we looking at here?
Its not horible but macbook refresh wasnt WoW, (imac was but they fail to deliver it).
Apple have solid sales, but the introduction of new product doesnt make such hype. I think there is danger that apple lose marketshare even more when companies start switch to 7.

[Eidorian]

Wow, does that ever look familiar!It's the hardware that Apple should be using.

[Ca$hflow]

Yea, but you know those numbers are not the whole truth since a lot of those are $300 netbooks!

It is what it is. This chart shows unit sales. Why is everyone so bitchy about where apple is in this chart. Sure in another chart under a different criteria apple may be in a different place. Get over it. Facts are facts.

[Trek2100]

I can't wait for the Q01 figures to come out. Apple stocks are currently sitting at 209.59. Way up from 1 year ago.

It's a shame that Billy Mays died. I would loved to have seen him do an infomercial for Apple.:D What a hoot that would have been.

[*LTD*]

It is what it is. This chart shows unit sales. Why is everyone so bitchy about where apple is in this chart. Sure in another chart under a different criteria apple may be in a different place. Get over it. Facts are facts.

We're discussing what these unit sales actually mean. No one is disputing the figures or what they represent. It's why they are what they that is the issue.

[Shodan]

You guy's just can't handle the fact that Apple is in 5th place (weak) and their computer sales are stagnant.
As for netbooks they serve a purpose or people wouldn't buy them. The only reason Apple doesn't have a netbook is because no one will pay $1000 for a netbook.

It's a Mac forum, what do you expect?

Fact is Netbook's are a gimmick - I can almost guarantee a strong 60% of Netbook's bought from the General Public are used a few times then left to rot away in the household.

NVIDIA's Ion platform is coming along nicely, but the sincere lack of Atom development from Intel (no surprises there), the slow screen size increments due to Health and Safety laws, the prices have been hiking up and their original purpose being lost.

I think the Tablet of all forms (Apple, Dell, etc) will wipe out the Netbook brand due to higher functionality and hopefully higher performance.

Just last year Samsung released around 4 revisions if Netbook which were supposedly the same line - that is just unacceptable behavior in this economic climate.

[Eidorian]

It's a Mac forum, what do you expect?

Fact is Netbook's are a gimmick - I can almost guarantee a strong 60% of Netbook's bought from the General Public are used a few times then left to rot away in the household.

NVIDIA's Ion platform is coming along nicely, but the sincere lack of Atom development from Intel (no surprises there), the slow screen size increments due to Health and Safety laws, the prices have been hiking up and their original purpose being lost.

I think the Tablet of all forms (Apple, Dell, etc) will wipe out the Netbook brand due to higher functionality and hopefully higher performance.

Just last year Samsung released around 4 revisions if Netbook which were supposedly the same line - that is just unacceptable behavior in this economic climate.A netbook is a gimmick but a tablet isn't?

[ericinboston]

It's a Mac forum, what do you expect?

Fact is Netbook's are a gimmick - I can almost guarantee a strong 60% of Netbook's bought from the General Public are used a few times then left to rot away in the household.

I think the Tablet of all forms (Apple, Dell, etc) will wipe out the Netbook brand due to higher functionality and hopefully higher performance.


1)Netbooks are a gimmick? Please elaborate. They've been crushing the laptop (non-desktop arena) for well over a year. Netbooks (like all things in life) have a purpose. If you purchase a netbook and use it for its intended purpose, it is an awesome (and inexpensive) product.

2)Tablets have been rumored and presented for decades...yet they are not adopted today. If and when Apple releases a tablet we will see what it's purpose is and how well it delivers. Period.

3)Netbooks prices, in my eyes, have remained the same over the past 2 years...ranging from $300 to $500...the average price, I feel, is about $400. I think there are 3 models that sell for $500. Once you get into the $500 pricepoint, you might as well *think* about considering a laptop for $100-$200 more depending on exactly what you want to do. My netbook cost $300...I use it mainly for my vacations and when not on vacation I use it a few hours a week to surf on the couch...the rest of the time it is plugged into my stereo streaming iTunes or internet radio which to me is worth the $300 alone.


Netbooks are a niche. Not a gimmick. Netbooks (as defined today) will never replace laptops or desktops or all-in-ones (like iMacs) or servers.

Lastly, if anything is a gimmick it's the Mac Mini (which I own)...nickel and dimed to death on that purchase (no keyboard or mouse and warranty (tech support) is only good for 90 days so had to upgrade to 3year warranty) which totaled $845 (far cry from the $599 advertisement). As a consumer, that is a gimmick...I'm a techie and knew what I was getting into. I just wanted the cheapest Mac.

-Eric

[djrobsd]

Ok, everyone bashing netbooks on here needs to chill. Netbooks serve a very important purpose in the computer industry. They allow people who otherwise would not be able to afford a computer to finally be able to get one. Many of these people simply want a computer to check email and play games online (such as those silly bejeweled type games). They don't need a $1500 dollar Macbook pro to do that, and will never buy them. The market is completely different.

My sister bought a netbook this year for her 3 and 4 year old girls so they would stop using her $1500 dollar HP Tablet computer. It works perfectly for the girls, they can go to their disney, and all their fun little kid sites and stay off mom's computer. Total cost for mom to get her computer back: $300. While we're on the discussion of tablets, she bought it because she thought it would be "cool", but in all reality, she NEVER uses the tablet side of the computer. ;)

My room mate has a netbook. He uses it every day, and told me he will never need anything else. He prefers the netbook over a traditional laptop because they are portable, and affordable, and he doesn't have to stress out as much about "what if someone steals my backpack with my laptop in it" or whatever else.

For me, I have my Macbook pro, love it, and couldn't imagine downgrading to a tiny 8-9 inch screen, and a slow processor. I convert videos, edit music, edit photos, and do a lot of stuff that simply wouldn't work on the netbook.

However, someday, I may get a netbook for my "Casual travel" needs where I don't need my powerful laptop (or perhaps don't want to worry about it being stolen from my hotel room when I go out to dinner). ;)

[gunraidan]

A netbook is a gimmick but a tablet isn't?

Not trying to defend Apple here but I do believe that pocket computers will be the next big thing. (See iPod Touch, Cell Phones, Etc.)

[Eidorian]

Not trying to defend Apple here but I do believe that pocket computers will be the next big thing. (See iPod Touch, Cell Phones, Etc.)You can't pocket a tablet though. :p

[gunraidan]

You can't pocket a tablet though. :p

The iPod Touch, iPhone, Droid, Palm Pilot, etc. are all computer tablets. They're just more specific to different things because computer power is quite at the level of powering such a small device for more then general computer purposes (this will soon change).

[Eidorian]

The iPod Touch, iPhone, Droid, Palm Pilot, etc. are all computer tablets. They're just more specific to different things because computer power is quite at the level of powering such a small device for more then general computer purposes (this will soon change).I should have been more clear. You can't pocket anything bigger than a pocketable tablet. :p We're looking at 7" - 10" devices here.

[gunraidan]

I should have been more clear. You can't pocket anything bigger than a pocketable tablet. :p We're looking at 7" - 10" devices here.

A poketable tablet is still a tablet. I'm not going to disclose on my thoughts of how successful Apple's future tablet is going to be, but it's pretty clear that small tablets will endorse a heavy market once they're up to par. I mean the main reason for a netbook is that it's a very small and lite computer that does all of the basics (Internet, Word Processing, Full Blown OS, etc.). I wouldn't see the need for it if I could do all of the basics with something in my pocket.

[flooce]

amazing, I got C 3 N C 0 R 3 D two times already in this thread, never said anything offensive, just pointed out ironically the limits of sale volume and then my surprise over C 3 N C 0 R $ H 1 P in this forum...
how long will this post be here?

[alent1234]

They did. Which is why they really aren't making any money.

http://microelectronics.cbronline.com/news/toshiba_in_the_red_as_q4_revenue_dips_20_to_17_billion_130509

Toshiba in the red as Q4 revenue dips 20% to $17 billion
Published:13-May-2009
By Datamonitor staff writer

Sales in Europe fell 47% to $1.9 billion

Toshiba has reported a net loss of JPY 184 billion ($1.9 billion) for the fourth quarter 2008, compared to net profit of JPY 1.25 billion ($12.6m) in the year-ago quarter, on revenue down 20.4% at JPY 1,671.5 billion ($16.9 billion). It made an operating loss of JPY 182.9 billion ($1.8 billion), compared to JPY 4.6 billion ($46.8m) in the year-ago quarter.


http://www.itworld.com/business/68159/hp-revenue-drops-tough-climate

HP revenue drops in tough climate
by Robert McMillan

May 19, 2009, 07:35 PM — IDG News Service —
Computer industry bellwether Hewlett-Packard reported a 3 percent drop in revenue as its major lines of business continued to be hammered by the global recession.

The company also became the latest technology vendor to resort to layoffs in order to cut costs. Over the next 12 months, HP will lay off about 2 percent of its work force, or about 6,000 employees, HP Chief Financial Officer Cathie Lesjak said during a conference call with financial analysts Tuesday. HP employs 321,000 worldwide.


These box-makers are bleeding money left and right. It's all about the race to the bottom. Cheaper, crippled hardware at low prices is the name of the game.

HP and Dell have a huge corporate presence and that's where the money is made. the consumer stuff is like Coke selling soda/pop cans in a grocery store. no profit but it's done for branding purposes. all the money in soda is in the syrup sold to the bottlers.

[alent1234]

Ok, everyone bashing netbooks on here needs to chill. Netbooks serve a very important purpose in the computer industry. They allow people who otherwise would not be able to afford a computer to finally be able to get one. Many of these people simply want a computer to check email and play games online (such as those silly bejeweled type games). They don't need a $1500 dollar Macbook pro to do that, and will never buy them. The market is completely different.

My sister bought a netbook this year for her 3 and 4 year old girls so they would stop using her $1500 dollar HP Tablet computer. It works perfectly for the girls, they can go to their disney, and all their fun little kid sites and stay off mom's computer. Total cost for mom to get her computer back: $300. While we're on the discussion of tablets, she bought it because she thought it would be "cool", but in all reality, she NEVER uses the tablet side of the computer. ;)

My room mate has a netbook. He uses it every day, and told me he will never need anything else. He prefers the netbook over a traditional laptop because they are portable, and affordable, and he doesn't have to stress out as much about "what if someone steals my backpack with my laptop in it" or whatever else.

For me, I have my Macbook pro, love it, and couldn't imagine downgrading to a tiny 8-9 inch screen, and a slow processor. I convert videos, edit music, edit photos, and do a lot of stuff that simply wouldn't work on the netbook.

However, someday, I may get a netbook for my "Casual travel" needs where I don't need my powerful laptop (or perhaps don't want to worry about it being stolen from my hotel room when I go out to dinner). ;)

the elitists laugh, but a lot of the new $300 netbooks are more powerful than a $1000 Macbook

[lilo777]

the elitists laugh, but a lot of the new $300 netbooks are more powerful than a $1000 Macbook

Or at least they have HDMI ports :D But yo are wrong calling these people elitits. There is nothing elitists about defending Apple for not having a netbook in their lineup. That is just a nature of Apple cult. The same people defend Apple for not having HDMI ports, BluRay DVD support, any normal desktop models etc.

[alent1234]

i've never bought anything from iTunes, but may start buying. just waiting for the 27th announcement. the kids stuff like Dora and Little Einsteins is a lot cheaper than DVD. and my HP laptop's HDMI port is nice for watching Hulu on my TV

[MorphingDragon]

It's the hardware that Apple should be using.

Burn!

Except aren't people complaining that the Envys overheat and die? Its all well and good having quad but only if the factor can handle it.

[Eidorian]

Burn!

Except aren't people complaining that the Envys overheat and die? Its all well and good having quad but only if the factor can handle it.Removing the internal optical drive seems to open up the cooling for a more powerful GPU. In addition there are intakes as well for air flow.

[christian_k]

5th place is a fine showing. Apple and its shareholders care about profits, not sales.

No, they have to care for market share.

Windows (and related products and services) will not disappear in the near future, so buying a computer from a small company is as future proof as buying from Dell or HP. That means a PC maker with 0,01% market share can survive and make profits and its customers and shareholders are happy.

But Apple is different. No one else uses Mac OS X. They need to keep market share above a certain level to keep related products and services - the "eco sytem" alive.

I don't think Apple is in danger to fall under a critical line. But they have to care.

Christian