Apple and McGraw-Hill Reportedly Collaborating on e-Textbook Tablet Offerings

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/22/apple-and-mcgraw-hill-reportedly-collaborating-on-e-textbook-tablet-offerings/)

BusinessWeek reports (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jan2010/tc20100121_991806.htm) that Apple has been in talks with the educational arm of publishing giant McGraw-Hill to bring e-textbook content to Apple's tablet device. The discussions also reportedly include portions of McGraw-Hill's Connect (http://connect.mcgraw-hill.com/) online learning system.Apple's talks with McGraw-Hill cover how the two companies can market textbooks for the tablet and ways their software development teams can collaborate to publish digital textbooks and educational content on Apple's latest device, two people say. "The talks are as much about marketing as they are about software development," says one of the people involved in the discussions.According to the report, Apple and McGraw-Hill have held extended discussions for about a year, supporting earlier claims (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/30/apples-tablet-effort-aiming-to-redefine-print-media/) that McGraw-Hill had been actively working to bring its content into the iTunes ecosystem. McGraw-Hill is also one of the partner's in CourseSmart, an e-textbook company that has already brought (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/10/coursesmart-brings-7000-textbooks-to-the-iphone-and-ipod-touch/) thousands of titles to the iPhone and iPod touch and has envisioned (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/05/coursesmart-looks-ahead-at-etextbooks-on-apples-tablet/) how its offerings might work on a concept Apple tablet.

McGraw-Hill's Connect, which apparently developed out of the collaboration with Apple regarding e-textbooks, offers professors a convenient means to manage electronic homework assignments and testing while offering students the ability to watch video, read textbook materials, and complete assignments.

McGraw-Hill is certainly not the only publishing company talking to Apple about tablet possibilities, as the report notes that both Hachette and Wiley have been in discussions, and a report earlier this week (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/18/harpercollins-negotiating-with-apple-over-e-books-on-new-tablet-device/) claimed that HarperCollins was also participating in negotiations.

Article Link: Apple and McGraw-Hill Reportedly Collaborating on e-Textbook Tablet Offerings (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/22/apple-and-mcgraw-hill-reportedly-collaborating-on-e-textbook-tablet-offerings/)

[iGod 2.0]

Definitely hoping that this deal falls through. This will make not only the tablet a cherished device in the education system, but also any device that runs iPhone OS, including the iPod touch and the iPhone. :apple:

[miles01110]

I'd never buy an etextbook. Tablet crashes -> you're screwed.

[thewireman]

I'd never buy an etextbook. Tablet crashes -> you're screwed.

Thats why you always back up.

[the-oz-man]

This makes me want to go back to school for more education!

[miles01110]

Thats why you always back up.

A backup doesn't help you when your tablet is bricked.

[dwd3885]

yea right. how are you going to back it up and view the ebook on your mac or pc? Also, so you're going to have to spend $1000 on a device that will allow you to spend $200 on a book? No Thanks! What if someone wants to borrow your book?

[Chupa Chupa]

Definitely hoping that this deal falls through. This will make not only the tablet a cherished device in the education system, but also any device that runs iPhone OS, including the iPod touch and the iPhone. :apple:

I think you mean you hope the deal does not fall through? When a deal "falls through" it means "no deal."

[dasein]

These companies are digging their own graves...not that they have a choice. Look what the iPod paradigm did to the RIAA crowd. iPhone Apps can be written by anyone willing to learn and get in touch with a market. What this all indicates is the days of the big business gatekeeper model for media is closing. Indie developers, whether musicians, video artists, or now information brokers, will have DIRECT access to the markets...who needs McGraw-Hill? for what? Once the SDK is in place, I think you'll see an explosion over the next few years of Indie style content providers. Content vetting aside, Gutenberg II.

[grayskies]

I believe this use has huge potential for Apple.

A lot of books are digital already and offered online, in tandem with
online homework programs.

- MyMathlab, MyEconlab comes to mind

The book publishers greediness is only exceeded by record labels.

They are trying all kinds of ways to get money for books and stop the used-book market.

[scubasteve03]

yea right. how are you going to back it up and view the ebook on your mac or pc? Also, so you're going to have to spend $1000 on a device that will allow you to spend $200 on a book? No Thanks! What if someone wants to borrow your book?

Yea, who is going to buy a DVD PLAYER? You're going to have to spend $400 on it and $30 on a just one DVD. VHS is so much cheaper.
And no, it's not going to cost $200 on a book. My wife is finishing med school and she has yet to pay $200 on one book. Plus if they follow amazon's pricing structure, it going to much cheaper than a physical book.
Also there is a possibility of the Book publisher offering a digital copy with the book. Its not all doom and gloom as you think. I think they can pull it off.

[talmy]

The economics of these e-Textbooks are skewed badly against the student. The appear inexpensive but most of them expire at the end of the term and cannot be transferred or sold. Basically you are renting the book. And in this case you are also having to buy an expensive reader. Under the traditional printed textbook model you can save money buying used, you can keep the book if it is a "keeper" with good reference value or you can sell it to another student. This cost is typically much less than the e-Textbook. The only advantage to the student is they can carry all their books around with them without getting back injuries.

For the publisher it is a win. Very small cost for "printing" and distribution. No warehousing. Elimination of profit-stealing resale market.

Disclaimer -- I've written an e-Textbook which I've self-published and have been selling for six years. It's browser based (so runs on virtually every computer) and has no DRM. I'm not the only self-publishing textbook author out there. Traditional textbook publishers are about as archaic as music publishers.

[cmaier]

Publishers will only discount the ebooks enough to make sure they kill the used book market. Ebooks allow them to make money each year from every student. This is the same industry that purposely makes tiny changes to books as often as possible to eliminate demand for last year's used version. They're not suddenly going to get all charitable.

[dwd3885]

Yea, who is going to buy a DVD PLAYER? You're going to have to spend $400 on it and $30 on a just one DVD. VHS is so much cheaper.
And no, it's not going to cost $200 on a book. My wife is finishing med school and she has yet to pay $200 on one book. Plus if they follow amazon's pricing structure, it going to much cheaper than a physical book.
Also there is a possibility of the Book publisher offering a digital copy with the book. Its not all doom and gloom as you think. I think they can pull it off.

have fun studying at the library and then your tablet's battery dies. UH OH!

[Wayfarer]

Hush, EVERYONE! :eek:

This alleged :apple:"Tablet" is merely an imaginary product. :rolleyes:

http://www.eeknews.com/spongebob_rainbow.jpg

[mekopolis]

Yea, who is going to buy a DVD PLAYER? You're going to have to spend $400 on it and $30 on a just one DVD. VHS is so much cheaper.
And no, it's not going to cost $200 on a book. My wife is finishing med school and she has yet to pay $200 on one book. Plus if they follow amazon's pricing structure, it going to much cheaper than a physical book.
Also there is a possibility of the Book publisher offering a digital copy with the book. Its not all doom and gloom as you think. I think they can pull it off.

what med school is she going to? I can think of one or two books off the top of my mind that are at least $600

maybe she borrowed off of someone else who bought that book

I just finished grad school for international business, and i concur that i did not pay over $200 for a single book, but they do add up, quickly

I agree that the text book industry is a Joke, and a waste of money

[Cander]

Publishers will only discount the ebooks enough to make sure they kill the used book market. Ebooks allow them to make money each year from every student. This is the same industry that purposely makes tiny changes to books as often as possible to eliminate demand for last year's used version. They're not suddenly going to get all charitable.

And don't forget the likely addition of DRM to prevent resale or trade of any kind.

[cmaier]

Unlike other books, a textbook is itself a tool, not merely a collection of content. You fill it with notes, tab the pages, learn to open to specific pages by muscle memory... You use the impressive ones to look important at the coffee shop, and you save the useful ones for when you start your career.

You stay in shape by lugging them around.

In short - they are tools that do their job well.

I don't see an etextbook making a decent substitute.

[TraceyS/FL]

I'm open to eTexts - but ONLY if i own the book... i'm not renting unless it is WAYYYY cheaper.

[MisterMe]

These companies are digging their own graves...not that they have a choice. Look what the iPod paradigm did to the RIAA crowd. iPhone Apps can be written by anyone willing to learn and get in touch with a market. What this all indicates is the days of the big business gatekeeper model for media is closing. Indie developers, whether musicians, video artists, or now information brokers, will have DIRECT access to the markets...who needs McGraw-Hill? for what? Once the SDK is in place, I think you'll see an explosion over the next few years of Indie style content providers. Content vetting aside, Gutenberg II.This is not the bullet that will kill the big publishers; it is the oxygen that will save them. There has already been enormous contraction in the industry. AFAIK, then there are only about one or two mainline textbook publishers left from my college days.

You are correct that this technology [properly applied] dramatically lowers the barrier to market. However, you can't just go to your office and bang out a new textbook on your Mac. This is particularly true in freshman and sophomore level courses. Textbook development is an involved process involving co-authors, editors, advisory panels, and many, many more. For K-12, you have to pass muster at other levels. State textbook adoption agencies play a huge role.

This technology stands to dramatically improve the process. However, its truly huge impact will come in supplementary materials. K-12 and university instructors will find it much easier to produce and distribute custom materials for their classes.

[pmalos]

I'd never buy an etextbook. Tablet crashes -> you're screwed.

I'd never buy a physical textbook. Lose your backpack -> you're screwed.

[theydonotmove]

I can't understand why people would want to pay thousands of dollars to make an already simple activity (such as opening a book) into a complicated one.

If teachers can't get students interested in a subject base on the merits of the subject itself, then a fancy tablet computer isn't going to do it either.

textbooks don't crash, and when you lose it, you haven't lost a 1,000 dollar device that your school has to replace.

[jsbaugh]

Most people will buy the Tablet for other things than just e textbooks. I wish I had that option 15 years ago and so what if you don't own the ebook. It expires when you are done with the class. Half the books I had I couldn't resell and if I could they were not worth much.
Give the tablet a year and most professors will be carrying one and recommending them to their students.

[grayskies]

The economics of these e-Textbooks are skewed badly against the student. The appear inexpensive but most of them expire at the end of the term and cannot be transferred or sold. Basically you are renting the book. And in this case you are also having to buy an expensive reader. Under the traditional printed textbook model you can save money buying used, you can keep the book if it is a "keeper" with good reference value or you can sell it to another student. This cost is typically much less than the e-Textbook. The only advantage to the student is they can carry all their books around with them without getting back injuries.

For the publisher it is a win. Very small cost for "printing" and distribution. No warehousing. Elimination of profit-stealing resale market.

Disclaimer -- I've written an e-Textbook which I've self-published and have been selling for six years. It's browser based (so runs on virtually every computer) and has no DRM. I'm not the only self-publishing textbook author out there. Traditional textbook publishers are about as archaic as music publishers.

-nail, hit on head

To add, this is why book contracts are often two years. The publisher won't make as much money with a lot of used books around.

" Hey it's time for our new and improved 700th edition "

[paradox00]

I can't understand why people would want to pay thousands of dollars to make an already simple activity (such as opening a book) into a complicated one.

If teachers can't get students interested in a subject base on the merits of the subject itself, then a fancy tablet computer isn't going to do it either.

textbooks don't crash, and when you lose it, you haven't lost a 1,000 dollar device that your school has to replace.

5-6 classes a day, a textbook for each, plus a couple binders and your back is screaming...

[dasein]

However, you can't just go to your office and bang out a new textbook on your Mac. This is particularly true in freshman and sophomore level courses. Textbook development is an involved process involving co-authors, editors, advisory panels, and many, many more. For K-12, you have to pass muster at other levels. State textbook adoption agencies play a huge role.

This technology stands to dramatically improve the process. However, its truly huge impact will come in supplementary materials. K-12 and university instructors will find it much easier to produce and distribute custom materials for their classes.

I think your point is valid in the near term, but go out 10 years and I think you'll see a very different landscape. College, first of all, is very different from K-12. Professors often write their own material and have it used by colleagues and themselves. So I think the first changes will happen at this level in education. The K-12 will, granted, take longer, but it will happen for the very reasons you listed above, in particular, the State adaption one along with all the other 'pass muster' reasons. The adaption process has evolved to a point of pedagogically correct texts that is driven by only a few States. What California, Texas, New York and Illinois adapt become the default texts for many smaller States unable to command attention/control of the publishing giants. What I think will evolve, particularly regarding Charter schools, is the adaption of a different text/content vetting method than just what's handed down by adaption boards at big States: college professors writing material themselves for (to begin) select high school curricula. The politics and finance of textbook purchasing has gotten to the point that many districts/schools/teachers would welcome an option that made better business sense. Finally, I don't see the large packaging that we have now continuing. Teaching Geometry, for example, wouldn't mean necessarily a full huge text placed in digital form. Rather, I think you'll see a more eclectic ad hoc approach to the content as defined by a State standards body. Shopping around for how you address that, textwise, is where the change will come. This is going to happen regardless of what Apple comes up with next week.

[eldervovichka]

When I was in my MBA program all of my books were ebooks, I could read them online and/or as a PDF. I still have all books located in one file, can use a word search in them, and take notes in them (using Adobe). I would have loved to have had an e-reader at the time. I also teach at a community college part time that uses ebooks and the students love them. At my day job, our training program use online guides and they are great. It is cheaper (for students/employer) and better for the environment, bring on the Tablet!!!!

Jeff

[HarryPot]

I guess it would be cool for some cases, like introductory subjects like Math, Physics, etc.

But as an engineering student, I think I wouldn't enjoy it. Maybe having a combo where you can get the e-book for a little extra price when you buy the physical book.

Besides, just imagine all students with their Tablets out, what's going to stop them from playing Monkey Ball in the middle of the class?:p Or when you need your books for an exam, having a Tablet with you is going to be prohibited, since you have access to internet an IM with it, making it the perfect cheating machine.

[farmboy]

When I was in my MBA program all of my books were ebooks, I could read them online and/or as a PDF. I still have all books located in one file, can use a word search in them, and take notes in them (using Adobe). I would have loved to have had an e-reader at the time. I also teach at a community college part time that uses ebooks and the students love them. At my day job, our training program use online guides and they are great. It is cheaper (for students/employer) and better for the environment, bring on the Tablet!!!!

Jeff

Well this can't be right...we've been told endlessly for several weeks (and a bunch of times in this thread) that this whole idea is a massive fail. You must be mistaken. ;)

I love how all the anxiety and snarkiness comes out--what happens when we lose our tablets, what happens when it crashes, what happens when the battery dies, it's going to be way more expensive....Come on, people, it will all work out. Settle down.

Send $10 bucks to the Red Cross and don't sweat the small stuff.

[peteyD]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)

McGraw-Hill owns Business Week. Depending on how well the corporate firewall worked, BW may have insider info.

[MongoTheGeek]

So much potential in this.

The texts would probably never expire, not the Apple Way™.

Marking up the texts would be allowable. Apple has inkwell and other hand writing recognition software. If they are stored as pdf's its easy to add annotations. Attach notes, pictures, sound files. Record the professor explaining something complicated and store the movie file next to the page in textbook! Triple tap a sentence and it is highlighted with a raggedy edged highlighter, just like text books.

The texts themselves can improve. Diagrams of things happening in a sequence become animations or flip books.

I spent about $300 a semester for engineering texts (almost 20 years ago). If they were half price because they were in a digital format it would pay for a $1200 tablet.

As for limiting IM you could have a "Test Mode" built into the tablet which could restrict applications, no IM, no email, no Web access. If the tests were given on the table you could sign the results with the tablet id and test mode status.

There is so much potential for win with this.

[peteyD]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)

Scratch that, just found out that BW was sold to Bloomberg in October last year. Sorry for the error.

[miles01110]

I'd never buy a physical textbook. Lose your backpack -> you're screwed.

If you lose your backpack you go to your school bookstore and buy another book and/or share with a friend. If you lose your tablet are you going to go out right away and buy another tablet? Stupid argument.


The texts would probably never expire, not the Apple Way™.


Expiration is rarely an issue with textbooks. "New editions" are just a slimy way to force people to buy new copies when they don't actually contain more information. The potential for publishing companies to screw their customers is much easier with digital editions because it eliminates the used book market.

[TraceyS/FL]

So much potential in this.

The texts would probably never expire, not the Apple Way™.

Course Smart books DO expire after a year.

I agree though, i can't imagine Apple doing the rental thing - not at the current prices being close to physical book prices and lacking extra content.

[Dwalls90]

A backup doesn't help you when your tablet is bricked.

Right, because how often is your Mac, iPod or iPhone bricked? Every time you sync or use TM (which I would recommend, and I do, at least once every 48 hours), you backup. Firstly, It's seemingly impossible to brick any of these three products. However, if you do, simply restore the iPod/iPhone and reinstall OS X from the DVD, and then restore the system using iTunes or TM respectively. Given how much Apple has recommended backing up, you can definitely count on this device syncing/backing up with either iTunes, OSX/XP or an external - definitely backing up in some shape or form. Personally, I've never had an iPhone, iPod or Mac become a brick. For those that do have this happen, if they've taken the stupid-proof measures, they'll never lose data and can have the hardware replaced at the genius bar within a reasonable amount of time. Plus, I'm sure this content will be readable on another source, such as a computer should your tablet be bricked.

lose your backpack, and someone else has gotten hold of your ebook reader too... you're still scewed, but you're probably out for more money than the guy who only lost his backpack with a few physical books in it, rather than you with your ebook reader and maybe all the ebooks you paid premium to carry around on your ebook reader. Either buy a new ebook reader or... how do you access your ebooks again?

Nope, you're not screwed, because you backed up your media. Did you lose your tablet? Yes. Will you lose your books and media on your tablet? No. Was it your fault for leaving your bag by itself while you ran to the bathroom? Yes.

[ShiftyPig]

And don't forget the likely addition of DRM to prevent resale or trade of any kind.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner. Textbook companies lose a lot to the resale of books.

[cmaier]

I guess it would be cool for some cases, like introductory subjects like Math, Physics, etc.

But as an engineering student, I think I wouldn't enjoy it. Maybe having a combo where you can get the e-book for a little extra price when you buy the physical book.
.

Agreed. I have three engineering degrees and would have hated ebooks. The screen is too small, the search function wouldn't work well with engineering texts, it would be hard to annotate since the software isn't math-aware, etc.

[MongoTheGeek]

One thing that I forgot to mention is that it is easier to have customized additions.

A biotext without evolution for Kansas. Math texts for New York that don't have the things which aren't on the regents exams.

Chapters could be pulled out by just checking a box.

You could even do a pay as you go deal. Imagine an Electrical Engineering text/app. Intro to EE has a dozen chapters, When it comes time to buy integrated circuit design you can do an in app purchase for those chapters. If you focus more on power engineering you buy those chapters. Any place where is overlap you won't have to buy the same information twice.

Homework can be built into the text. Bundle in an educational version of mathematica or maple. Drag numbers from the text into position in equations.

/so much possible win
//starting to drool...

[theydonotmove]

5-6 classes a day, a textbook for each, plus a couple binders and your back is screaming...

Textbooks don't run out of battery either.

[talkingnewmedia]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)

McGraw-Hill owns Business Week. Depending on how well the corporate firewall worked, BW may have insider info.

Actually they don't, they sold it to Bloomberg, but I get your point about inside information.

cmaier is, of course, right about how textbook publishers work and why you won't see discounts from the industry.

Having said that, I can think of three reasons why textbooks on a tablet would be great: 1) notes and searching; 2) they have to be somewhere if print is dying; 3) updates.

But textbooks will remain expensive. These publishing companies didn't create their monopolies in order to see Apple come in and destroy their profits. These are smart people . . . unlike the music and movie folk. Guess it must be all those business textbooks they read. ;)

[MongoTheGeek]

Agreed. I have three engineering degrees and would have hated ebooks. The screen is too small, the search function wouldn't work well with engineering texts, it would be hard to annotate since the software isn't math-aware, etc.

Software can be math aware. Imagine the steam tables where everything has units built into the numbers. Drag them into a holding area to manipulate...

Applescript from way back when had the ability to store units on numbers. You could have 12 inches and then coerce it into meters.

try this in script editor.

12 as inches as meters
--meters 0.3048

It works in Snow Leopard. It worked in 7.6.

This could make grapher and a few other things hidden away useful.

[TraceyS/FL]

Textbooks don't run out of battery either.

Winder how the governor will solve that??

(first story i found on it)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/09/arnold-schwarzenegger-school-textbooks-ebooks
Schwarzenegger, trying to plug a budget hole of $24.3bn (£15bn), thinks he can make savings by getting rid of what he decries as expensive textbooks. The governor is serious about an idea that might make Gutenberg turn in his grave. He appeared in class yesterday to push an idea he set out in the San Jose Mercury News newspaper.

"It's nonsensical and expensive to look to traditional hard-bound books when information today is so readily available in electronic form," Schwarzenegger wrote. "Especially now, when our school districts are strapped for cash and our state budget deficit is forcing further cuts to classrooms, we must do everything we can to untie educators' hands and free up dollars so that schools can do more with fewer resources."

Schwarzenegger points out that California last year set aside $350m for school books and argues that even if teachers have to print out some of the material, it will be far cheaper than regularly buying updated textbooks.

I'm still thinking that Steve and the Arnold are in cohoots on this somehow.... but it makes things move forward faster for ME, and makes them possibly cheaper.... well, we shall see how it plays out soon!

[talmy]

Unlike other books, a textbook is itself a tool, not merely a collection of content. You fill it with notes, tab the pages, learn to open to specific pages by muscle memory... [...]
In short - they are tools that do their job well.

I don't see an etextbook making a decent substitute.

I wrote a textbook in HTML format. The hyperlinks as well as a search engine makes finding sections far easier than a printed text (also available, by the way, but it doesn't sell as well). A particular benefit for my subject matter (microcontroller programming) is I can embed operating computer simulations directly in the text and students can also copy example code to try and modify. Since the text is read using a browser, all web page tagging techniques apply. You can find things using Spotlight on the Mac.

[lilo777]

I believe this use has huge potential for Apple.

A lot of books are digital already and offered online, in tandem with
online homework programs.

- MyMathlab, MyEconlab comes to mind

The book publishers greediness is only exceeded by record labels.

They are trying all kinds of ways to get money for books and stop the used-book market.

I am not sure Apple would be a winner here. Since it owns just 5% of computer market and even smaller fraction of the phone market it is highly unlikely that Apple would get any exclusivity here. And given a choice what do you think most students would prefer: to carry a $1K iPad with crippled OS around the campus or a $400 Windows 7/Ubuntu based netbook or netpad?

[cmaier]

Software can be math aware. Imagine the steam tables where everything has units built into the numbers. Drag them into a holding area to manipulate...

Applescript from way back when had the ability to store units on numbers. You could have 12 inches and then coerce it into meters.

try this in script editor.

12 as inches as meters
--meters 0.3048

It works in Snow Leopard. It worked in 7.6.

This could make grapher and a few other things hidden away useful.

That's not "math," at least not the kind of math that matters to engineers. Try searching for a particular calculus proof - how do you enter mathematical symbols into the search box? How do you take math notes when some dopey handwriting recognition keeps trying to turn your integral symbol into an "s." Or, if it lets you just write free ink, try doing a complicated math derivation with your finger on a 10" screen. I'll take a pencil and the margins of a real textbook any time.

The fact that an ebook version of an engineering textbook can double as a fancy calculator is of no interest to me if it can't also function as a proper textbook. I had my matlab and my HP-48 for calculations. That's not what a textbook is for. (Indeed, of what use is learning to perform calculations by using my textbook to "drag things into holding areas to manipulate them?" When I get a job I'm going to have to use a computer or calculator or pencil and paper to do my work - learning a textbook-specific user interface to perform a particular task is of no use to anyone.

[pavenger]

Yea, who is going to buy a DVD PLAYER? You're going to have to spend $400 on it and $30 on a just one DVD. VHS is so much cheaper.
And no, it's not going to cost $200 on a book. My wife is finishing med school and she has yet to pay $200 on one book. Plus if they follow amazon's pricing structure, it going to much cheaper than a physical book.
Also there is a possibility of the Book publisher offering a digital copy with the book. Its not all doom and gloom as you think. I think they can pull it off.

Calculus I, $275 for the book. I guess med school is where it's at... And all my upper level Engineering books are about $200 each. I know it's different for each school and for whatever you are studying. My brothers wife just graduated from gonzaga this last spring with a BS in nursing and I remember one of her books were 400. I can see eBooks being cheaper than their paper brethren but it's still a textbook and will cost an arm and a leg. If apple can make etextbooks work well and look beautiful and if you could "write" on the pages for notes and have a highlighter I will definately buy their tablet

[cmaier]

Calculus I, $275 for the book. I guess med school is where it's at... And all my upper level Engineering books are about $200 each. I know it's different for each school and for whatever you are studying. My brothers wife just graduated from gonzaga this last spring with a BS in nursing and I remember one of her books were 400. I can see eBooks being cheaper than their paper brethren but it's still a textbook and will cost an arm and a leg. If apple can make etextbooks work well and look beautiful and if you could "write" on the pages for notes and have a highlighter I will definately buy their tablet

I got my engineering ph.d in 1996, and even back then several books each year were north of $200. I got my law degree in 2006, and back then more than half my texts were more than $200. Some of the big ones were more than $300. Hence used books were very very popular.

[wallinbl]

Yea, who is going to buy a DVD PLAYER? You're going to have to spend $400 on it and $30 on a just one DVD. VHS is so much cheaper.
And no, it's not going to cost $200 on a book. My wife is finishing med school and she has yet to pay $200 on one book. Plus if they follow amazon's pricing structure, it going to much cheaper than a physical book.
Also there is a possibility of the Book publisher offering a digital copy with the book. Its not all doom and gloom as you think. I think they can pull it off.

DVD had significant advantages over VHS without any downside. There is plenty of downside for eBook (especially eTextbooks) over physical.

There is no resale. You can't buy used (which is cheaper than the eBook price) and you can't sell used (which recoups most of what you paid).

They are not permanent. Most Textbook publishers already offer their books in eBook format. They are all time limited, meaning after 6 months or a year, you can't read it anymore.

The prices (so far) are not compelling. Why pay 70-80% of list (list, not Amazon) for a product you can't sell back and will lose after XX months?

You're much better off buying used and selling used. Of course, thanks to the ****ing activation codes for "enhanced content", it's getting harder to do this anymore.

The publishers are dying for this to happen so that they can completely kill the used textbook market. Do not expect this to cause a reduction in prices. It will only increase their revenues.

[acslater017]

I can't understand why people would want to pay thousands of dollars to make an already simple activity (such as opening a book) into a complicated one.

If teachers can't get students interested in a subject base on the merits of the subject itself, then a fancy tablet computer isn't going to do it either.

textbooks don't crash, and when you lose it, you haven't lost a 1,000 dollar device that your school has to replace.

I went to a University of California campus for five years. In a typical quarter (10 weeks), I attended four classes. I spent about $100 on books for each class.

So $100 x 4 classes x 3 quarters x 5 years = $6,000. Or 3 VERY decent MacBook Pros! I would gladly spend say, $800 on a tablet and download my 60 books at ~$50. Or rent them for even less! I've kept maybe 10-15 of my books for future reference - the rest I gave/sold to friends or sold to the university bookstore at a HUGE loss (bought new for $100, sell back for $30; store then sells it to someone for $85). :mad:

The textbook market needs a good shakeup like the record industry did in the early 2000s. Remember $20-25 CDs? What are they now, $10-15? In my opinion, an Apple book store and tablet would be a welcome change.

[cmaier]

I went to a University of California campus for five years. In a typical quarter (10 weeks), I attended four classes. I spent about $100 on books for each class.

So $100 x 4 classes x 3 quarters x 5 years = $6,000. Or 3 VERY decent MacBook Pros! I would gladly spend say, $800 on a tablet and download my 60 books at ~$50. Or rent them for even less!

Of course you would. But why would the textbook publishers do that? Right now they get $6,000 from you. What miracle of charity will possess public companies that have to answer to their shareholders to allow you to rent books at less than half the price, the end result being that they earn less money?

I keep saying it, but remember - this is an industry that makes it a practice to update textbooks as often as possible, whether necessary or not, just to destroy the value of the used books from the previous edition. This is not an industry that wants to make your life easy and inexpensive.

[MisterMe]

That's not "math," at least not the kind of math that matters to engineers. Try searching for a particular calculus proof - how do you enter mathematical symbols into the search box? How do you take math notes when some dopey handwriting recognition keeps trying to turn your integral symbol into an "s." Or, if it lets you just write free ink, try doing a complicated math derivation with your finger on a 10" screen. I'll take a pencil and the margins of a real textbook any time.

The fact that an ebook version of an engineering textbook can double as a fancy calculator is of no interest to me if it can't also function as a proper textbook. I had my matlab and my HP-48 for calculations. That's not what a textbook is for. (Indeed, of what use is learning to perform calculations by using my textbook to "drag things into holding areas to manipulate them?" When I get a job I'm going to have to use a computer or calculator or pencil and paper to do my work - learning a textbook-specific user interface to perform a particular task is of no use to anyone.You appear to be taking two contrarian stances:

I can't do math on a computer.
Doing math on a computer serves no purpose.

Neither is true. Since 1990 or so, this app (http://www.livemath.com/products/#lmm) has been available on the Mac and was ported to Windows a few years later. MathCAD (http://www.ptc.com/products/mathcad/mathcad14-whats-new.htm) has a somewhat different take on mathematical worksheets, but is much more flexible about the placement of expressions on the worksheet. I would love to see both LiveMathMaker and MathCAD ported to the Apple tablet. Back in the day whe MathCAD 6.0 for Mac was still a commercial product, the developer also sold digital workbooks from the CRC Handbook of Physics and Chemistry. Each workbook was a godsend!

There is something fundamental about all of this that you don't get. Our expectations of mathematics changes. If you had studied electricity in Maxwell's day, then you would not have had the benefit of vector notation. All of your derivations and computations would have been done component by component. Vector notation was invented later and substantially eased algebra and calculus in multiple dimensions.

If you had been in primary school in 1900, then the arithmetic that you did then was substantially different at least in degree than the arithmetic that you and I did in elementary school. Those children back then had to add 25 five-digit numbers using pencil and paper. Many of them learned to do it in their heads. With the advent of the calculator and adding machine, however, that skill became worthless.

Just like the component-by-component vector mathematics and the addition of pages of numbers, many of our skills will also become irrelevant as technology advances. New technology will also allow us to create new skills that were not possible before.

Relax. It will be OK.

[Doctor Q]

How long before we'll be hearing students complain of backaches from carrying around their second-generation 17" Mac Tablet with its carrying case and other peripherals?

[mattcube64]

-nail, hit on head

To add, this is why book contracts are often two years. The publisher won't make as much money with a lot of used books around.

" Hey it's time for our new and improved 700th edition "

Yup, completely agree.

As a third-year college student, buying from my bookstore has cost me at LEAST $600/semester. I, of course, aim to buy used on either Amazon, B&N, or rent on Chegg.... but at the very least, I'm gonna spend about $400 on books a semester. And unfortunately, I rarely get more than about 1/6th of that money back, because the publishers are creating new editions making mine obsolete, and they're in cahoots with the teachers, so professors require a different book each year. It's BS.

And there's no way in hell I'm going to spend $80+ on a digital, timed, DRM'd, no-resellable, book.

If Apple can somehow, through their magic powers, get iTunes textbooks down to like $25/book, I'd be all over it. But I REALLY doubt that's gonna happen.

[cmaier]

You appear to be taking two contrarian stances:

I can't do math on a computer.
Doing math on a computer serves no purpose.

Neither is true. Since 1990 or so, this app (http://www.livemath.com/products/#lmm) has been available on the Mac and was ported to Windows a few years later. MathCAD (http://www.ptc.com/products/mathcad/mathcad14-whats-new.htm) has a somewhat different take on mathematical worksheets, but is much more flexible about the placement of expressions on the worksheet. I would love to see both LiveMathMaker and MathCAD ported to the Apple tablet. Back in the day whe MathCAD 6.0 for Mac was still a commercial product, the developer also made sold workbooks from the CRC Handbook of Physics and Chemistry. It was a godsend!

There is something fundamental about all of this that you don't get. Our expectations of mathematics changes. If you had studied electricity in Maxwell's day, then you would not have had the benefit of vector notation. All of your derivations and computations would have been done component by component. Vector notation was invented later and substantially eased algebra and calculus in multiple dimensions.

If you had been in primary school in 1900, then the arithmetic that you did then was substantially different at least in degree than the arithmetic that you and I did in elementary school. Those children back then had to add 25 five-digit numbers using pencil and paper. Many of them learned to do it in their heads. With the advent of the calculator and adding machine, however, that skill became worthless.

Just like the component-by-component vector mathematics and the addition of pages of numbers, many of our skills will also become irrelevant as technology advances. New technology will also allow us to create new skills that were not possible before.

Relax. It will be OK.

I am taking a single, non-contrarian position. You can DO math on a computer. There are many specialized programs to do so. Many of these are used both in schools and in industry, and hence it is a good idea to learn to do them.

An e-textbook, however, cannot easily do the things with math that you need a textbook to do. I listed these things. There are OTHER things that an e-textbook can do with math (the poster to whom I responded listed these). However these things are better accomplished with the software I mentioned above, because even if the textbooks have, for example, their own equivalent of matlab or mathematica or SPICE built in, these will not be the same tools that you will need to use in your job, so you might as well use the same stand-alone software everyone else uses.

Your entire assumption above is that I am opposed to progress. I am not. I am all for teaching math and engineering using COMPUTERS. However textbooks are not the right vehicle for that, both because:

1) they can't serve the TEXTBOOK functions as well as real textbooks (rapid random access, notetaking, etc.) -and-
2) even assuming (and I don't believe this) they perform the math-/engineering- specific computerized interactive functions as well as stand-alone, non-textbook tools, students are better served learning to use the tools that they will have to use when they get out of school and get jobs.

The class 1 year behind me in engineering school learned math using textbooks and matlab. I was stuck with pen and paper. They got a superior education, both because they got new tools which allowed them to focus on the big picture and develop an intuition for things, but also because many of those students became proficient at using matlab, and many of them ended up using matlab in their day to day jobs.

I got to use SPICE, in conjunction with a real textbook, in my circuit design class. Again, this was advantageous because I got to focus on the big picture and develop intuition for circuits. Would I have been better off learning some sort of circuit analysis software integrated into my etextbook? Hell no. I would have presumably achieved intuition, but at the cost of not learning to use real software that is ubiquitous in industry.

[budselectjr]

I looked up all the books I needed to buy this semester and the e-book version is about half the price if not more of the real book. Seeing how you would either get nothing or very little money back for selling the book back to the school, the savings would be greater in buying the e-book.

Example in my case is "Fundamentals of Corporate Finance, 6th Edition".

-New in my book store is $200
-used $150
-digital version off coursesmart.com $75

[friedrice]

Wow..lots of good points made. I have a few observations, having been in school forever, and now serving as an educator:

1. Reading texts online is largely generational. Many folks over 35 or 40 are not wired/adaptable to switch from texts (that can be highlighted, annotated, and "held") to a screen. I think that it can be learned, but takes some motivation.

2. I think that we all agree that the future is online. No more newspapers, books, etc. It may take 10-20 yrs, but it's coming. We will be connected on all devices (or maybe just one), and all of our professional and social interactions will be initiated or at least promulgated electronically. It saddens me to think about that, but I see it happening with younger folks.

3. Many of these "brick and mortar" purveyors of media will need to change or perish. We see newspapers dropping like flies. Perhaps Apple will repeat history and save publishing, as it has for the record industry, with their new offering. OK..my gratuitous fanboy comment...

[Harmless Abuse]

I would do this, if and only if, the textbooks became much cheaper due to it.

I know a few sites in which you can "rent" online textbooks or purchase them in .pdf format and stuff.

BUT they only end up saving you $20.

I'm sorry, but the fact that you cannot sell back ebooks, and for now it's not practical, I would much rather have a hard copy.

Now if the book is, say, $20 - $40USD in ebook form, then sure, I'd love it. I could get an old used, beat-up textbook to leave in my car just in case, and then use the ebook on campus to help make my life easier.

But I SERIOUSLY doubt this will be the case, thus I will probably not pay close attention to it. They'll want $100 for a book that would cost $130 in physical form. You don't have to worry about glitches and potential malfunctioning with paper and ink.

[cmaier]

I looked up all the books I needed to buy this semester and the e-book version is about half the price if not more of the real book. Seeing how you would either get nothing or very little money back for selling the book back to the school, the savings would be greater in buying the e-book.

Example in my case is "Fundamentals of Corporate Finance, 6th Edition".

-New in my book store is $200
-used $150
-digital version off coursesmart.com $75

Sure. Until schools start mandating the ebook version or enough people start buying them that there isn't any supply of used books anymore, at which point they can jack up the ebook prices.

[budselectjr]

Sure. Until schools start mandating the ebook version or enough people start buying them that there isn't any supply of used books anymore, at which point they can jack up the ebook prices.

Yeah. Its unfortunate its like this. Its not like kids are gonna stop going to school and make them lower the prices. Kinda just have to bend over and take it.

[paradox00]

Textbooks don't run out of battery either.

What's your point? I took my MBP to school and never had trouble finding power. A tablet would likely improve on battery performance too.

etexts can in theory be had for less than traditional textbooks
they would be consolidated on one compact device
They would be searchable
You could easily add and remove notes on them
They would be backed up on your home computer

Resale is really a moot point. The whole point of reselling a textbook is to recover some of the cost of the text. If an ebook started cheaper, you would essentially recover some of the cost of the paper text immediately without going through the hassle of reselling it. They also switch versions so often that it is hard to get a decent resale value on many textbooks.

I have a bookshelf full of textbooks and boxes full of notes, I can only wish that I had them stored on a tablet and on my mac.

[ChazUK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.1; en-gb; Nexus One Build/ERD79) AppleWebKit/530.17 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/530.17)

I never did know how much some of these text books cost, it's quite shocking.

The publishers of these ebooks could end up getting seriously bitten in the arse if any drm got cracked and ebooks started to be pirated easily over the internet.

If the drm did get cracked easily, I'd assume that a drm cracked ebook would spread faster than a book which needed to be scanned from front to back to share?

[cmaier]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.1; en-gb; Nexus One Build/ERD79) AppleWebKit/530.17 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/530.17)

I never did know how much some of these text books cost, it's quite shocking.

The publishers of these ebooks could end up getting seriously bitten in the arse if any drm got cracked and ebooks started to be pirated easily over the internet.

If the drm did get cracked easily, I'd assume that a drm cracked ebook would spread faster than a book which needed to be scanned from front to back to share?

They don't really care - by the time the DRM is cracked the current semester's classes will have already made their purchases. Then the ebook publishers update their books (shiny new words in chapter 3), and the professor for the next semester assigns the NEW edition of the book. Student don't know exactly what changed, so rather than using a stolen DRM-stripped version from last semester, they are forced to buy the new one.

[crash8130]

Yeah. Its unfortunate its like this. Its not like kids are gonna stop going to school and make them lower the prices. Kinda just have to bend over and take it.

WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT
NO, WE AIN'T GONNA TAKE IT
WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE

sorry, had to do it.

[crash8130]

-nail, hit on head

To add, this is why book contracts are often two years. The publisher won't make as much money with a lot of used books around.

" Hey it's time for our new and improved 700th edition "

I am pretty sure they will have an option to buy the e-textbook or should. I think we agree for most classes you want to sell it back so renting is not a bad option.

In a perfect world this will help drive down the cost of the book and give us a greener world to live in. But the fact of it is greed will slowly come back into play and everything that was accomplished will be null and void.

But why should the fact that we know everything will back to status quo stop us from progress now?

Also, I forget who mentioned it but battery life is definitely an Issue. Input is definitely and issue. I wait patiently for Wednesday. Actually not patiently.

Did anyone else request the day off? I can't be the only one.

[futureteaching]

I am a teacher in North Carolina and I really believe that if we really want to graduate more students who are prepared to participate in our society, pay taxes and can improve our country's production we are going to HAVE to adopt this type of technology.

Like it or not (and a lot of teachers and educators don't) students are not learning by reading physical books anymore. Sure some are, but for the most part, the students who are struggling to be successful in school are the one's who don't read as well and need every advantage they can get to educate themselves.

This will change everything in educuation and as a tax payer you should be supportive of this change. It will save money and increase access to information. Apple will make money off of this, but they are not in business to loose money. Neither are the textbook companies which is why they are interested in this. The textbook companies know that eventually for them to remain profitable, they will have to sell e-textbooks so they might as well move in that direction. They don't want to become like the record companies and become very irrelevent.

[foranor]

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/18678.cfm

You don't have these problems with real books.

'nuff said.

[MisterMe]

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/18678.cfm

You don't have these problems with real books.

'nuff said.It bears remembering that the Apple slate will not be a Kindle.

[foranor]

It bears remembering that the Apple slate will not be a Kindle.

It will, however, most likely only present eBooks riddled with DRM. Who'd want to buy an eTextbook for classes for (e.g.) $50 only to have it revoked for whatever obscure reason, just so you lose all annotations and so forth.

[MisterMe]

... Who'd want to buy an eTextbook for classes for (e.g.) $50 only to have it revoked for whatever obscure reason, just so you lose all annotations and so forth.Most people also would not want to encounter a ghost or a murderous alien, but they tend to concentrate on probable threats rather than those that they make up themselves.

[Dirigible]

FYI: it is possible to print pages for CourseSmart books. It is also possible to both highlight passages and add notes. And it looks like books are about 1/2 the purchase price for a 180 day subscription.

[cmaier]

Most people also would not want to encounter a ghost or a murderous alien, but they tend to concentrate on probable threats rather than those that they make up themselves.

In the short history of ebooks this has already happened.