Bush the Antichrist

[professor]

I Knew it!

http://www.born-again-christian.info/wtc.htm

[Neserk]

About time...

[blackfox]

talk about your strange bedfellows...


...oh, isn't Bush supposedly a born-again Christian?...ouch, that's gotta sting...

[LethalWolfe]

Props to everyone that read the whole thing. I could only get thru the first few paragraphs.

It has nothing to do w/his position. There just only so much bible thumping I can take in one night...


Lethal

[Bobcat37]

Bleh, crap I say. They have a few good doctrines on their website mixed with a lot of strange ones IMO. For instance:

"Both spiritual and physical healing are included in every person's salvation.

Never can physical healing be Scripturally separated from salvation under the New Covenant. The term saved always includes the benefits of physical health."

They say that salvation can also save you from things such as poverty, pain and failure. Right...

Don't remember any of that happening to me...

Or their claim that "Most mental illness is caused by Satan and demons" (lol!)

They also harp on how Harry Potter is evil.

They practice speaking in tongues.

They compare Bush to Hitler.

Um... yeah... I think "Christians" like this give Christians a bad name.

In my opinion (and I am a Christian) they are crazy...

The people on that site sound like the bible thumpers on TV who say "send me your money and God will make your life perfect!"

Now that is false teachings...

[Bobcat37]

It has nothing to do w/his position. There just only so much bible thumping I can take in one night...

I would say there can be good "bible thumping" and bad.... that was bad.

[zimv20]

Props to everyone that read the whole thing. I could only get thru the first few paragraphs.

further than i made it...

[amnesiac1984]

Bleh, crap I say. They have a few good doctrines on their website mixed with a lot of strange ones IMO. For instance:

"Both spiritual and physical healing are included in every person's salvation.

Never can physical healing be Scripturally separated from salvation under the New Covenant. The term saved always includes the benefits of physical health."

They say that salvation can also save you from things such as poverty, pain and failure. Right...

Don't remember any of that happening to me...

Or their claim that "Most mental illness is caused by Satan and demons" (lol!)

They also harp on how Harry Potter is evil.

They practice speaking in tongues.

They compare Bush to Hitler.

Um... yeah... I think "Christians" like this give Christians a bad name.

In my opinion (and I am a Christian) they are crazy...

The people on that site sound like the bible thumpers on TV who say "send me your money and God will make your life perfect!"

Now that is false teachings...

if you don't take it so literally, and more metaphorically its good stuff, and it works too. I'm no Christian because I don't believe in labelling spirituality, but it's all different ways of explaining a good message.

[takao]

hm okay many things in there sound funny but under all those layers of funny words there are still things which should be considered

especially the "you reap what you sow" part

[Neserk]

Some Christians believe in THE anti-christ. In reality the bible speaks of many. Think of it literally and you get the idea. People who do things against Christ/Jesus.

Jesus, according to the gospels, while human, is also strongly against violence. You read things like: love your enemy, turn the other cheek, do good to those that persecute you. All reportedly directly from Jesus' mouth.

The writer is juxtapositioning those teachings with Bush's actions. If indeed Bush is a Christian he would not retaliate. As a supposed Christian he had the option of following Jesus teachings (novel idea for a Christain :rolleyes: ) which would have (in the author's opinion) allowed people who weren't Christian to become Christians because they would have seen that Jesus makes a difference in how we treat one another.

While I'm not in favor of converting people from other religions the author makes some really excellent points about appropriate Christian behavior -- and Bush's lack there of.

[Neserk]

I would say there can be good "bible thumping" and bad.... that was bad.


Bible thumping is bad. But the author is right on when it comes to What Bush has done versus what the Gospels teach. You only say it is bad because you like Bush.

[Backtothemac]

OMG. What would Jesus do. Well, personally, I think if Jesus was still alive, he would have laid the smack down on Osama in person.

What a joke. Yes, after 9/11 we should have held the worlds hand. Withdrawn our military from ever base in the world and brought our boys home. We should have told Israel you are on your own. Paid double for oil because, well, they are poor countries that need money. Completely changed our belief strucutre, and given the terrorists everything they deserved and we should have done this all in the name of God.

What a friggin joke. :rolleyes:

[skunk]

Yes, after 9/11 we should have held the worlds hand. Withdrawn our military from ever base in the world and brought our boys home. We should have told Israel you are on your own. Paid double for oil because, well, they are poor countries that need money. Completely changed our belief strucutre, and given the terrorists everything they deserved and we should have done this all in the name of God.

What a friggin joke. :rolleyes:
I don't think you've quite got the hang of the Christian thing.

[Backtothemac]

I don't think you've quite got the hang of the Christian thing.

Yea, I do. The point of Christianity is very simple. Love. Period. Not this, if you don't believe you will rot crap. God wanted us to love. Jesus died for us because of love. Love is what the bible is about. The problem is the **** that gets carried out in God's name. You have wacko's in every religion that pervert the system so that they can kill, mame, and destory in God's name.

[skunk]

Yea, I do. The point of Christianity is very simple. Love. Period. Not this, if you don't believe you will rot crap. God wanted us to love. Jesus died for us because of love. Love is what the bible is about. The problem is the **** that gets carried out in God's name. You have wacko's in every religion that pervert the system so that they can kill, mame, and destory in God's name.
Exactly. The only way to stop the cycle of violence is to stop it.

[Backtothemac]

Exactly. The only way to stop the cycle of violence is to stop it.

Right, but you think Osama will listen to that logic? Kalied Sheik Mohammad maybe?

There are some that you do have to remove from the equation so that you can attempt to balance it.

[mactastic]

There is no way to peace. Peace IS the way.

Wise words.

[skunk]

Right, but you think Osama will listen to that logic? Kalied Sheik Mohammad maybe?

There are some that you do have to remove from the equation so that you can attempt to balance it.
I disagree. You can't say: "I'll stop killing after these last ones".

[Backtothemac]

I disagree. You can't say: "I'll stop killing after these last ones".

Your right, I say keep killing them as they pop up.

[skunk]

Your right, I say keep killing them as they pop up.
Wow! You're really on a roll today, aren't you? :D

[mactastic]

Your right, I say keep killing them as they pop up.

And that's worked how well in the war on drugs? If you kill one and create two, how does that serve anything except your thirst for vengence?

[Backtothemac]

And that's worked how well in the war on drugs? If you kill one and create two, how does that serve anything except your thirst for vengence?

Well, you are talking about two different wars. The law is the law though and take down those that traffic drugs. Lock them up.

However the guy that takes down two landmark buildings, and kills 3,000 people. You have to deal with him a little differently.

[Backtothemac]

Wow! You're really on a roll today, aren't you? :D

My attitude has changed somewhat lately based on events that have happened to family in friends that are in Iraq.

[mactastic]

Well, you are talking about two different wars. The law is the law though and take down those that traffic drugs. Lock them up.

However the guy that takes down two landmark buildings, and kills 3,000 people. You have to deal with him a little differently.


You didn't answer the question. If you kill one and create two, what does that accomplish?

[mactastic]

My attitude has changed somewhat lately based on events that have happened to family in friends that are in Iraq.

Ah so you are reacting emotionally. Didn't anyone tell you not to let your emotions rule your actions?

[skunk]

Well, you are talking about two different wars. The law is the law though and take down those that traffic drugs. Lock them up.

However the guy that takes down two landmark buildings, and kills 3,000 people. You have to deal with him a little differently.
Differently to the CinC who orders the deaths of 20,000?

And why?

[Backtothemac]

Ah so you are reacting emotionally. Didn't anyone tell you not to let your emotions rule your actions?

No, I am seeing clearly. They are monsters, and will not stop. This war, it will have no end, because as you say, if we kill two, four pop up. So pop them when they do.

The only hope we have that this war will ever end is that the people of the Middle east rise up against terror and the regimes that support it.

That is the only hope. Unless the US becomes isolationaist, and removes itself from Middle east policy.

[Backtothemac]

Differently to the CinC who orders the deaths of 20,000?

And why?

Why what? you lost me there buddy ;)

[mactastic]

The only hope we have that this war will ever end is that the people of the Middle east rise up against terror and the regimes that support it.


At least we agree here. But popping them off won't win us any friends over there. Our actions have increased their recruiting ability.

[Backtothemac]

At least we agree here. But popping them off won't win us any friends over there. Our actions have increased their recruiting ability.


From a ideological standpoint for the short term. Yes, but if Iraq succeeds a s a democracy and peace can come to that country, and the people can flurish, then it is a short term increase that will go down over time.

[mactastic]

From a ideological standpoint for the short term. Yes, but if Iraq succeeds a s a democracy and peace can come to that country, and the people can flurish, then it is a short term increase that will go down over time.

Wish in one hand and $*** in the other and see what you have left.

[skunk]

Why what? you lost me there buddy ;)
War is war. US bombs have killed 20,000 in retaliation for 2,500 (I believe the 3,000 includes foreigners) killed in New York. Where is the moral high ground which empowers you to be so sure of your judgment that you so easily condemn people to death?

[mactastic]

Well those 20,000 were just terrorist evildoers who got in the way dontcha know. :rolleyes:

[Backtothemac]

War is war. US bombs have killed 20,000 in retaliation for 2,500 (I believe the 3,000 includes foreigners) killed in New York. Where is the moral high ground which empowers you to be so sure of your judgment that you so easily condemn people to death?


Here it is. We know who brought down the towers right. So be it. Take them out. 20,000. They should not have brought the fight to us.

[mactastic]

Here it is. We know who brought down the towers right. So be it. Take them out. 20,000. They should not have brought the fight to us.

Tell us who brought down the towers please. Was it Iraq?

[skunk]

Here it is. We know who brought down the towers right. So be it. Take them out. 20,000. They should not have brought the fight to us.
THAT's your moral high ground? Or is it just "might is right"? I think we should be told...

[Backtothemac]

THAT's your moral high ground? Or is it just "might is right"? I think we should be told...


What would you have us do, hug them? Please enlighten me.

[Backtothemac]

Tell us who brought down the towers please. Was it Iraq?

No, but like it has been said.

"Saddam Hussain is a threat. He has used chemical weapons in the past, twice invaded his neighbors, and has ties to terror. He is a threat that must be handled, even if it means ground invasion, and the President reserves the right to make that decison unilaterally if need be."

John Kerry - 1998.

[mactastic]

So because Kerry said it, that makes it right?

[skunk]

No, but like it has been said.

"Saddam Hussain is a threat. He has used chemical weapons in the past, twice invaded his neighbors, and has ties to terror. He is a threat that must be handled, even if it means ground invasion, and the President reserves the right to make that decison unilaterally if need be."

John Kerry - 1998.
"If need be".

[zimv20]

My attitude has changed somewhat lately based on events that have happened to family in friends that are in Iraq.
do you feel comfortable elaborating?

[Backtothemac]

do you feel comfortable elaborating?

I have someone that is very close to me serving there. They have been treated with love, and respect from the Iraqi people, and has really come to love the country. They resently have seen first hand, in front of them the acts of terror from the hands of the insurgents. They have been wounded, but not killed, and it is the Iraqi's that are starting to realize that we are not the enemy. According to him, they are starting night partols' they being the iraqi's to go out and find the insurgents. They are taking their country back for themselves.

He watched a guy shoot a 3 year old little girl in the head in front of her mother. The insurgent did so because the family was suni. He shot and killed the terrorist in an exchanged, but was wounded.

But the pain that he feels, the guilt that he feels for this little girls life. Unbelieveable pain. Whether it is right, or wrong, makes me want to seek vengence on those that would committ those asks. Reguardless of the consequences.

Isn't a Klingon proverb that says revenge is a dish that is best served cold. The coldest revenge is death.

Sorry, but the pain that I feel for my friend, the pain that he feels is overwhelming. The pain that he feels from seeing the politicians over here use the war a tool to campaign is unreal. The people that say it isn't justified. They should go see the mass graves outside of Basrah. They should see the pain that the people of Iraq have gone through.

What you see on TV isn't what is happening over there. It really is better than they make it out. AND it hurts, it really ****ing hurts when someone you love and care about and have known for 25 years puts their life, concience and family on the line for a great cause that only turns into political fodder. Bush this, Kerry this. Look, I don't give a damn what anyone says, reguardless of the WMD's we did the right thing. And frankly, we need to be in Rowanda, Somalia, Kosovo, and other countries to stop the usless slaughter of millions of people. 20,000 innocent may die from the action, but millions will die if there is inaction in these areas of the world.

I am just sick. Sick of the lack of truth that is coming from Iraq. Yea, people will say your friend is painting an image of hope. No, he has been a friend for 25 years. He tells the truth. He is an honest man. The things that are wrong. He tells it no matter what, but the pain of the crime that is taking place, is starting to take its toll on us.

[zimv20]

we need to be in Rowanda, Somalia, Kosovo, and other countries to stop the usless slaughter of millions of people.
is this a new position for you?

thanks for the report.

[skunk]

And frankly, we need to be in Rowanda, Somalia, Kosovo, and other countries to stop the usless slaughter of millions of people.
I love the "US-less slaughter".

[Backtothemac]

is this a new position for you?

thanks for the report.

Yes, I was against going to those places. But knowing the killing that is taking place.......

This is how serious I am about it......

Raise my taxes to pay for it.

[Backtothemac]

I love the "US-less slaughter".

What are you refering to exactly.... be direct,,,,, not sly

[skunk]

What are you refering to exactly.... be direct,,,,, not sly
Just your Freudian Slip... :D

[Bobcat37]

Even though this topic is going all over the place, I can't stand people who try to paint Christianity as pacifism. First off, Christians believe that the Trinity is one being, thus Jesus the Son and God the Father are the same being. Sooo, if you wanna go read your Old Testament, there is a helluva lot of wars and killing in there. In fact God commands his people to make war with and kill their enemies (oh yeah, that's some pacifism alright!). Secondly, even though Jesus' main message was love, he got angry, remember the uproar in the temple? Lastly, if you do your best to understand Revelation, it has been prophesied that Jesus will someday return to this earth (during the reign of the Anti-Christ who appears in Rev 13) and kick some major @$$ with his armies (seen in Rev 19).

Ecclesiastes 3:1 / 8 "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: ... A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace"

Know what you are talking about before saying Christianity = pacifism -_-

[Neserk]

Even though this topic is going all over the place, I can't stand people who try to paint Christianity as pacifism.

<snip>

Know what you are talking about before saying Christianity = pacifism -_-


I know quite well what I"m talking about. And Jesus' teachings, as reported in the Gospels, were pacifist.

Read the article ;)

[skunk]

Even though this topic is going all over the place, I can't stand people who try to paint Christianity as pacifism. First off, Christians believe that the Trinity is one being, thus Jesus the Son and God the Father are the same being. Sooo, if you wanna go read your Old Testament, there is a helluva lot of wars and killing in there. In fact God commands his people to make war with and kill their enemies (oh yeah, that's some pacifism alright!).
I think you'll find that OT stuff is superceded by JC's pronouncements. "His people" in the OT context does not of course mean the US of A.

Secondly, even though Jesus' main message was love, he got angry, remember the uproar in the temple?
Overturning a table is not the same as bombing the crap out of 20,000 people. It's not even a matter of degree.

Lastly, if you do your best to understand Revelation, it has been prophesied that Jesus will someday return to this earth (during the reign of the Anti-Christ who appears in Rev 13) and kick some major @$$ with his armies (seen in Rev 19).
Revelation is the deranged fantasy of a solitary fruitloop. It's not what JC said.

Ecclesiastes 3:1 / 8 "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: ... A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace"

Know what you are talking about before saying Christianity = pacifism -_-
Know what YOU are talking about before saying Christianty = Judaism.

[carbonmotion]

I have someone that is very close to me serving there. They have been treated with love, and respect from the Iraqi people, and has really come to love the country. They resently have seen first hand, in front of them the acts of terror from the hands of the insurgents. Maybe your friend's case is really really special. I have a buddy serving on the ground crew in the airfoce, another one serving in the SEALS (he came back a short while ago) and another one serving in the US Army regular. Not one of them have said anything positive about the situation in Iraq. From what they tell me, the people hate the US troops and while some hate the insurgents as well a good fragment of the population support the rebels... including teenagers who idolize killing US Troopers. Also, out side of the Safe-zones, the US does not control much of bagdad and the iraqi government is seen as a shame by the people.

They have been wounded, but not killed, and it is the Iraqi's that are starting to realize that we are not the enemy. According to him, they are starting night partols' they being the iraqi's to go out and find the insurgents. They are taking their country back for themselves. right... I'm sure that it! You must mean the shame of an army that is the iraqi defense force. This is much like the ARVN situation in vietnam.


He watched a guy shoot a 3 year old little girl in the head in front of her mother. The insurgent did so because the family was suni. He shot and killed the terrorist in an exchanged, but was wounded. My friend saw a us soldier shoot an iraqi man in the head because he wanted to push the us soldiers out of his house.

But the pain that he feels, the guilt that he feels for this little girls life. Unbelieveable pain. Whether it is right, or wrong, makes me want to seek vengence on those that would committ those asks. Reguardless of the consequences. War inflicts emotional damage on soldiers

Isn't a Klingon proverb that says revenge is a dish that is best served cold. The coldest revenge is death. if you say so.

Sorry, but the pain that I feel for my friend, the pain that he feels is overwhelming. The pain that he feels from seeing the politicians over here use the war a tool to campaign is unreal. The people that say it isn't justified. They should go see the mass graves outside of Basrah. They should see the pain that the people of Iraq have gone through. let me remind you that every country has its skeletons, the US for example commited genocide upon countless thousands of people in the westward expansion. Who are we to judge the actions of country when we are no better and capable of far worse! If the entire word through the UN had banded together to call for an end ot sadam's rule, then we would have legitamacy, other wise we are no better than the rapists of iraq like sadam or the current islamic militants.


What you see on TV isn't what is happening over there. It really is better than they make it out. AND it hurts, it really ****ing hurts when someone you love and care about and have known for 25 years puts their life, concience and family on the line for a great cause that only turns into political fodder. Bush this, Kerry this. Look, I don't give a damn what anyone says, reguardless of the WMD's we did the right thing. No lying to the country for a good cause is a slipery slope because good cause is a dynamic value that varies from person to person. Even if everyone does agree that liberating iraq is a good cause, the deception used as a means to an end is a dangerous threat to our own democracy.

And frankly, we need to be in Rowanda, Somalia, Kosovo, and other countries to stop the usless slaughter of millions of people. 20,000 innocent may die from the action, but millions will die if there is inaction in these areas of the world. We do need to be there, but only upon multilateral action. We as a singular nation has no right to invade the sovergnty of another nation unless we have consense from our global partners.

I am just sick. Sick of the lack of truth that is coming from Iraq. Yea, people will say your friend is painting an image of hope. No, he has been a friend for 25 years. He tells the truth. He is an honest man. The things that are wrong. He tells it no matter what, but the pain of the crime that is taking place, is starting to take its toll on us. A war crime that we as well as the insergents are committing!

[Backtothemac]

I will sum it up.

I feel for your friend, and I am not saying that we are without fault.

However, in my mind. We were justified in our action, and my mind will never change about that.

Oh, and you are wrong. We can use force when we choose to as a country. We don't need the UN approval to do so. We have a coalition, we did not act alone.

[Bobcat37]

I can't even debate you because you aren't on the same level.

Overturning a table is not the same as bombing the crap out of 20,000 people. It's not even a matter of degree.

Agreed, my point is that isn't exactly the pacifist thing to do.

Revelation is the deranged fantasy of a solitary fruitloop. It's not what JC said.

Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

If you don't want to believe in Revelation as a valid book of the Bible, then debate is impossible. I believe the Bible to be true and thus Revelation 1:1 to be true, thus it IS from Christ.

Know what YOU are talking about before saying Christianty = Judaism.

Gee that one went right over your head didn't it? Let's go over this one more time... the trinity is one being, the same. Thus Jesus and the God of the Old Testament are the same (since when are Christians not allowed to use the OT by the way? I didn't realize the OT was exclusivey for Judaism, afterall it was the OT that prophesied the coming of a savior, Christ. Just because). I repeat, Christians believe that Jesus and the God of the OT are the same being. What's so hard to grasp about this? I'm not going to go over it again...

Anyway, debating with you is futile because I already know where you're coming from. Someone who believes the Bible is true can't debate the validity of the Bible, or claims the Bible makes, with someone who believes it is all a fabrication.

[carbonmotion]

I will sum it up.

I feel for your friend, and I am not saying that we are without fault.

However, in my mind. We were justified in our action, and my mind will never change about that.

Oh, and you are wrong. We can use force when we choose to as a country. We don't need the UN approval to do so. We have a coalition, we did not act alone.riiight... UK has some troops in Iraq along with a few othe nations but their no where near the amount the US has dedicated to the war. Also, this is a Unilateral action because most industrialized nations around the world are against this for the most part including the citizens of britian. Now, your we can kill whoever the hell we want argument is flawed. A) we broke international law by invading iraq 2) we obviously don't care about the int'l law because we think we are the most powerful nation on earth and think that we know better than everyone else. Well, i got news for you, the US does not have the capability to survive without the good graces of our global community. Globalization has made the world so interdependent that if we contine to act bullishly like the way we are now, we will fall out of favor with the community. And when we do, there will be huge economic polical and military consequences that will be the direct reaction to our current big brother foreign policey. I HOPE, It does not take a disaster for us americans to wake up from our fantasy land powertrip and realize just how dependent every nation is to everyother nation.

[mactastic]

Making decision from a place of pain and/or rage is not good practice. Dispassionate analysis should always be striven for.

[Hi_Its_Satan]

Just for the record, Bush is no minion of mine.

Don't blame me, I gave up meddling in politics after Kissinger let me down.

Carry on.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Bible thumping is bad. But the author is right on when it comes to What Bush has done versus what the Gospels teach. You only say it is bad because you like Bush.

I will not say that GW is the Anti-Christ. But we have been warned of false prophets. I am very concerned about those that wrap themselves in the Bible for political gain.

[Neserk]

I will not say that GW is the Anti-Christ. But we have been warned of false prophets. I am very concerned about those that wrap themselves in the Bible for political gain.

I was thinking more in the style of an anti-Christ versus the anti-Christ. Pertaining particulalry to those who wrap themselves in the bible for Political gain.

I do like that last sentence. It is well worded an conveys precise meaning.

[Chip NoVaMac]

I was thinking more in the style of an anti-Christ versus the anti-Christ. Pertaining particulalry to those who wrap themselves in the bible for Political gain.

I do like that last sentence. It is well worded an conveys precise meaning.

Call it my upbringing. I was taught that we have to live by our own actions. I believe that since i was created in God's image, i can't see being Gay as being wrong. Same way that a loving God, could not forsake his Child, except for the Big Ten.

In some ways I am reminded of the saying - Won't they be surprised to find out that God is a woman, Black, and a Lesbian,

[skunk]

I can't even debate you because you aren't on the same level.
What the hell is THAT supposed to mean?

Agreed, my point is that isn't exactly the pacifist thing to do.
Mistreating furniture is not the same as being bellicose.

If you don't want to believe in Revelation as a valid book of the Bible, then debate is impossible. I believe the Bible to be true and thus Revelation 1:1 to be true, thus it IS from Christ.
Whatever.

Gee that one went right over your head didn't it? Let's go over this one more time... the trinity is one being, the same. Thus Jesus and the God of the Old Testament are the same (since when are Christians not allowed to use the OT by the way? I didn't realize the OT was exclusivey for Judaism, afterall it was the OT that prophesied the coming of a savior, Christ. Just because). I repeat, Christians believe that Jesus and the God of the OT are the same being. What's so hard to grasp about this? I'm not going to go over it again...
Gee, you're a patronising one, aren't you? Jesus' teachings often contradicted those of the Pharisees. No "eye for an eye" in Christian teaching, it's "turn the other cheek".

Anyway, debating with you is futile because I already know where you're coming from. Someone who believes the Bible is true can't debate the validity of the Bible, or claims the Bible makes, with someone who believes it is all a fabrication.
What a cop-out. Wht doesn't this argument apply to other faith-based opinions, such as yours about GWBush?

[Krizoitz]

People, people, no need to get worked up about this. No matter what your opinion is of George Bush, its obvious he isn't the anti-christ. He can't be. We all allready know that Bill Gates is the anti-christ :D

[macsrus]

Call it my upbringing. I was taught that we have to live by our own actions. I believe that since i was created in God's image, i can't see being Gay as being wrong. Same way that a loving God, could not forsake his Child, except for the Big Ten.

In some ways I am reminded of the saying - Won't they be surprised to find out that God is a woman, Black, and a Lesbian,

Here is your rabbit with a pankake on its head

[takao]

People, people, no need to get worked up about this. No matter what your opinion is of George Bush, its obvious he isn't the anti-christ. He can't be. We all allready know that Bill Gates is the anti-christ :D

ROFL haha i didn't expected that in the political section talking about religion ;)

thanks for bringing back the irony

[Neserk]

Here is your rabbit with a pankake on its head


Saw that one coming a mile away. :rolleyes:

[professor]

Backtothemac, I'm still confused. Here is one (born-again) English missionary who puts Bush close to the Antichrist (see the link at the top). There is one (catholic) Pope who condemns Bush's killing of the innocent in Iraq.
Bush claims to be born again. Or is he Catholic? Or both? Is he a Christian? Whatever, both gurus say that what Bush does ist wrong. So whom should I believe? The Missionary? The Pope? Backtothemac? If you're in favor of violence and mass-killing, and they are not, you must be some kind of a terrorist, or what?

[Backtothemac]

riiight... UK has some troops in Iraq along with a few othe nations but their no where near the amount the US has dedicated to the war. Also, this is a Unilateral action because most industrialized nations around the world are against this for the most part including the citizens of britian. Now, your we can kill whoever the hell we want argument is flawed. A) we broke international law by invading iraq 2) we obviously don't care about the int'l law because we think we are the most powerful nation on earth and think that we know better than everyone else. Well, i got news for you, the US does not have the capability to survive without the good graces of our global community. Globalization has made the world so interdependent that if we contine to act bullishly like the way we are now, we will fall out of favor with the community. And when we do, there will be huge economic polical and military consequences that will be the direct reaction to our current big brother foreign policey. I HOPE, It does not take a disaster for us americans to wake up from our fantasy land powertrip and realize just how dependent every nation is to everyother nation.
Do you know the definition of unilateral? Becasue most industrialized nations are against the war. For god sakes do you hear yourself!

This coalition is larger than the one that was formed to stop Hitler. FACT.

What a bunch of crap. Sorry, but that is what I think about the unilateral bull ****.

[Backtothemac]

Backtothemac, I'm still confused. Here is one (born-again) English missionary who puts Bush close to the Antichrist (see the link at the top). There is one (catholic) Pope who condemns Bush's killing of the innocent in Iraq.
Bush claims to be born again. Or is he Catholic? Or both? Is he a Christian? Whatever, both gurus say that what Bush does ist wrong. So whom should I believe? The Missionary? The Pope? Backtothemac? If you're in favor of violence and mass-killing, and they are not, you must be some kind of a terrorist, or what?
'
Yea, I am the terrorist. That is a real intelligent arguement. Who the hell said I am for mass killing of innocents. Sure, some innocent will die, but if the ends justify the means, then it is worth it right. :rolleyes:

[zimv20]

This coalition is larger than the one that was formed to stop Hitler. FACT.

just curious, what factors are you using to determine "larger?"

[carbonmotion]

Do you know the definition of unilateral? Becasue most industrialized nations are against the war. For god sakes do you hear yourself!

This coalition is larger than the one that was formed to stop Hitler. FACT.

What a bunch of crap. Sorry, but that is what I think about the unilateral bull ****. I hope you don't actually buy in to the hawkish ultra-right's rehtoric! I mean I know some conservatives would rather believe in Bush than question him, but this is crossing the line. Here is the list of the so called coalition of the willing.

United Kingdom - attended the Azores summit with the US and Spain, will provide military support including about 45,000 troops.
Spain - attended the Azores summit with the US and the UK and is not sending troops into the conflict, but will deploy military personnel and equipment in a support capacity and offer warplanes to defend Turkey from an attack from neighbouring Iraq.
Australia - military support including about 2,000 troops and and 150 special forces.
Kuwait - Around 300,000 U.S. and British troops are in the Kuwaiti desert in preparation for an invasion, and it is a members of the GCC.
Poland - military support including 200 troops and a logistics ship.
Albania - military support of about 70 troops for non-combat roles.
Romania - providing basing rights and has contributed 278 experts in landmine removal and chemical and biological decontamination. It has opened its airspace to ally planes, and will contributed post-conflict and non-combatant military troops for humanitarian missions.
Czech Republic - sending a chemical-biological warfare support unit.
Portugal - granted U.S. permission to use Lajes Field air base in the Azores Islands, a traditional eastern Atlantic refuelling stop.
Italy - not sending troops, but will provide the minimum base of logistical support, in particular, the use of bases and air space.
Turkey - is still negotiating the extent of its involvement in any war.
Japan - prepared only to provide post-conflict financial support for the reconstruction of Iraq due to Japan's post-war pacifist constitution bans the use of force in settling international disputes.
South Korea - may send non-combat troops likely to be a 500-strong engineering battalion and has pledged aid as well as help to war refugees.
Denmark - a warship and a submarine, a medical team, and AWACS crew-members. Also set aside funds for postwar reconstruction.
Netherlands - sent patriot anti-missile batteries to Turkey and about 300 soldiers to man them along border with Iraq. They have given full support to the US in moving its troops through Holland to the Middle East and will to take part in any peace-keeping operation in Iraq after the war was over.
Hungary - providing political support.
Estonia - extent of support is unclear, but may be seeking US financial or military support through Nato.
Latvia - extent of support is unclear, but may be seeking US financial or military support through Nato.
Lithuania - extent of support is unclear, but may be seeking US financial or military support through Nato.
Bulgaria - has offered 150 non-combat troops.
Slovakia - providing political support.
Macedonia - providing political support.
Azerbaijan - providing political support.
Afghanistan - promise of support due to involvement in the war on terrorism.
Georgia - offered political and moral support and use of its air bases/
Philippines - political and moral support.
Uzbekistan - promise of support due to involvement in the war on terrorism.
Colombia - prepared to offer political support due to US funding of the anti-drugs war.
El Salvador - has offered political support and will send Salvadoran military officials with any U.N. troops assigned to maintain peace in Iraq, due to US funding of the anti-drugs war.
Nicaragua - prepared to offer political support due to US funding of the anti-drugs war.
Dominican Republic - providing political support.
Costa Rica - providing political support.
Honduras - political and moral support.
Eritrea - political and moral support (may be seeking US support in a boundary dispute with rival neighbour Ethiopia).
Ethiopia - political and moral support (may be seeking US support in a boundary dispute with rival neighbour Eritrea).
Rwanda - providing political support.
Uganda - providing political support.
Iceland - does not have an independent military but will provide postwar humanitarian relief.
Singapore - will allow US military ships and aircraft to call at Singapore and to use military bases and air space.
Mongolia - providing political support.
Marshall Islands - providing political support as it does not have a military.
Micronesia - providing political support.
Solomon Islands - providing political support as it does not have an independent military.
Palau - providing political support.
Panama - providing political support.

Ok so out of all these countries the ones that send a substantial military force is only the UK, Aus., and Poland. Many of these countries were politically cojaoled in to the coalition by the US and even more are in the coalition to exploit financially the post-war iraq. So may be we should rename the Coalition of the willing to the Coaltion of the Coerced or Coalition of the Oppertunistic. GRANTED, I don't expect anyone to take my word without well researched academic paper as backing (i.e. no Michael "fatboy" Moore or Rush "poopface" Limbo Crap) So, here's a paper from Institute for Policy Studies about tactics the US uses to coerce fellow nations in to this shame of a coalition. www.ips-dc.org/COERCED.pd I think it's time for you Bush conservative to take a good look at my sig, as not understanding it could lead to america's greatest fall from grace.

[takao]

This coalition is larger than the one that was formed to stop Hitler. FACT.


more french soldiers _died_ in 1940 when defending their country against the wehrmacht than this coalition has soldiers combined ... so you're off by a few 10 millions of soldiers...

no further discussion needed,history lessons suggested

[Chip NoVaMac]

thank you carbon...

Your post is the best to show that the coalition is weaker than the conservatives would like to think.

i would welcome those that support this coalition to provide a nation by nation listing for GHB.....

[Backtothemac]

more french soldiers _died_ in 1940 when defending their country against the wehrmacht than this coalition has soldiers combined ... so you're off by a few 10 millions of soldiers...

no further discussion needed,history lessons suggested

Um, I am talking about the number of countries supporting the allies.

There were 8 allies in WWII.

There are way more than that in the Iraq was.

Point is, you guys on the left will always think Bush lied, it was an unjust illegal war, and we will always think you are wrong. :D

[skunk]

Um, I am talking about the number of countries supporting the allies.

There were 8 allies in WWII.

There are way more than that in the Iraq was.
If you really think that Hungary, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Macedonia, Azerbaijan, Afghanistan, Georgia, Philippines, Uzbekistan, Colombia, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, Costa Rica, Honduras, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Rwanda, Uganda, Iceland, Singapore, Mongolia, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Solomon Islands, Palau and Panama, none of whom is providing any troops whatever, constitute a meaningful coalition, you must be mad.On that basis, you should include every territory in the British Empire as a member of thw WWII coalition, most of whom at least played some part in that war. This is a foolish, dishonest and disingenuous argument.

Point is, you guys on the left will always think Bush lied, it was an unjust illegal war, and we will always think you are wrong. :D
"You" will always think "we" are wrong? Even if the facts show otherwise? That shows remarkable political maturity!

[carbonmotion]

Um, I am talking about the number of countries supporting the allies.

There were 8 allies in WWII.

There are way more than that in the Iraq was.

Point is, you guys on the left will always think Bush lied, it was an unjust illegal war, and we will always think you are wrong. :D

Sorry, but your historical facts are just inaccurate! Excluding the nations that were part of the alliance but didnt suffer great casualties, there are a total of 21 major contributing powers in the allied side. They are as follows in the format of Country, KIA, MIA, Civilian MIA, Civilian KIA, Grand Total:

Belgium
12,000
N/A
N/A
76,000
88,000

Brazil
943
4,222
N/A
N/A
1,000

British Comm
373,372
475,047
251,724
92,673
466,000

Australia
23,365
39,803
32,393
N/A
24,000

Canada
37,476
53,174
10,888
N/A
38,000

India
24,338
64,354
91,243
N/A
N/A

New Zealand
10,033
19,314
10,582
N/A
10,000

South Africa
6,840
14,363
16,430
N/A
7,000

United Kingdom{4}
264,443
277,077
213,919
92,673
357,000

Colonies
6,877
6,972
22,323
N/A
7,000

China{5}
1,310,224
1,752,951
115,248
N/A
N/A

Czechoslovakia{6}
10,000
N/A
N/A
215,000
225,000

Denmark{7}
1,800
N/A
N/A
2,000
4,000

France{8}
213,324
400,000
N/A
350,000
563,000

Greece{9}
88,300
N/A
N/A
325,000
413,000

Netherlands
7,900
2,860
N/A
200,000
208,000

Norway
3,000
N/A
N/A
7,000
10,000

Poland{10}
123,178
236,606
420,760
5,675,000
5,800,000

Philippines
27,000
N/A
N/A
91,000
118,000

United States{11}
292,131
671,801
139,709
6,000
298,000

U.S.S.R.{12}
11,000,000
N/A
N/A
7,000,000
18,000,000

Yugoslavia
305,000
425,000
N/A
1,200,000
1,505,000

Stop buying in to rightest rehtoric, know your history and don't follow those hawks in washington blindly.

Source: http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/frame5.htm

[skunk]

Thanks for the figures. This is developing into a very pointless argument. It was won several rounds ago, but this poor old dead horse is still being flogged. :mad:

[Chip NoVaMac]

Thank you again carbon for well done data. You even gave me thought.

[skunk]

You even gave me thought.
Even you?? Wow! :D