PDA

View Full Version : 16 Year Old to Sail Around the World Alone


dmr727
Jan 24, 2010, 08:00 PM
Abby Sunderland, 16, leaves Marina del Rey in an effort to be the youngest person to circumnavigate the world alone.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-abby-sunderland24-2010jan24,0,935990.story

She just left Los Angeles yesterday.

I love to see this kind of spirit in today's youth, but I've gotta say, I think I'd have a hard time letting my 16 year old (if I had one) do something like this. :eek:

ucfgrad93
Jan 24, 2010, 08:17 PM
Abby Sunderland, 16, leaves Marina del Rey in an effort to be the youngest person to circumnavigate the world alone.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-abby-sunderland24-2010jan24,0,935990.story

She just left Los Angeles yesterday.

I love to see this kind of spirit in today's youth, but I've gotta say, I think I'd have a hard time letting my 16 year old (if I had one) do something like this. :eek:

Agreed. No way would I let my 16 year old do something like this.

ntrigue
Jan 24, 2010, 09:06 PM
I hope she doesn't die.

Kamera RAWr
Jan 24, 2010, 10:02 PM
Hmm... on the one hand I wish I had her courage to undertake something like this. On the other hand however I wonder why on earth her parents would ever allow her to do this. Almost makes me wonder why the child protective services doesn't step in.

MinorBidoh
Jan 24, 2010, 11:32 PM
Perhaps parents of our modern age simply see this type of event as character building and/or an adventure. Yes, I see the danger of sailing the worlds oceans, although I cant help but think of my Granddad, who at the same age enlisted in the army (1944). And that was his choice, to lie about his age and the 'do what can be done' was his approach.

There is no choice without opportunity. Im sure most of us would have loved to travel the world at 16. And If needed I'd fight for my country even at the same age.

leomac08
Jan 24, 2010, 11:49 PM
so 6 months from now she will hopefully come back to Marina Del Rey...:rolleyes:

steve2112
Jan 24, 2010, 11:51 PM
I thought this had already been done. I remember hearing something about a teen doing this last summer, except it was a guy that time.

Edit: Guess it helps to RTFA. :) The other guy was 16 when he left, 17 when he got back. He also used a diferent route.

tabasco70
Jan 25, 2010, 07:19 AM
Is this the one where she struggled to get legal permission?

instaxgirl
Jan 25, 2010, 07:29 AM
How lonely.

mkrishnan
Jan 25, 2010, 07:38 AM
Another punch in the gut for the Girl in the Netherlands that wanted to do it and got stopped by child services...

Is this the one where she struggled to get legal permission?

So you (and I) were both thinking of the girl in the Netherlands, I think, that Ahmed referenced. Laura Dekker (http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/absconded-solo-sailing-girl-be-repatriated). AFAIK, so far the courts have continued to prevent her from trying to do it.

djellison
Jan 25, 2010, 07:42 AM
Laura is 14. This girl is 16. Might not sound like much, but you could START sailing at 14 and be ready for something like this aged 16.

As another poster said, only a few decades ago, people of 16 were going to the trenches to fight wars.

If I were this girls parent, would I be nervous? Hell yes. But you don't suddenly wake up and say "See you next year, I'm off to sail the world" - this is something that clearly has been worked up to over years of sailing as a youngster, with the parents probably. They'll have been involved in the planning for this - hell - they've probably paid for it.

Good luck to her. I know kids 3, 4 years older who struggle to get out of the house, get a job, get a career, have any motivation at all infact - someone like THIS should be an inspiration to them.

sammich
Jan 25, 2010, 07:45 AM
There's also an Aussie girl going for the youngest. 16 y 8 months

http://www.jessicawatson.com.au/

mkrishnan
Jan 25, 2010, 08:06 AM
If I were this girls parent, would I be nervous? Hell yes. But you don't suddenly wake up and say "See you next year, I'm off to sail the world" - this is something that clearly has been worked up to over years of sailing as a youngster, with the parents probably. They'll have been involved in the planning for this - hell - they've probably paid for it.

In the end, I could see an exceptional teenager, who has trained appropriately (as they both have), making an informed decision to do something like this at 16. It's true that she could die out there, but we are ultimately all at risk of dying in one way or another, at one time or another.

mscriv
Jan 25, 2010, 10:04 AM
Quite the adventure. I don't know all of the details, but I doubt doing something like this is as dangerous as it was in the past. Please don't misunderstand, the ocean is as dangerous as ever, but with today's technology she will probably be in regular contact with people via satellite, GPS, etc.. Sea travel is not quite the unknown it used to be like in the days of Columbus.

Kamera RAWr
Jan 25, 2010, 01:39 PM
Just out of curiosity... am I the only one who thinks its not quite the same comparing this girl to those who lied about their age to fight in WWII?

kunal123
Jan 26, 2010, 09:31 AM
Isn't there some Aussie girl around 16 doing the same and she just ran into a bad storm?

obeygiant
Jan 26, 2010, 10:26 AM
Fine. Just be home by 11pm.

QuantumLo0p
Jan 26, 2010, 12:35 PM
Her journey brings to mind Ernest Henry Shackleton.

Just curious but I wonder what tech gear she is bringing along?

Don't get me wrong, this is a huge undertaking; just the solitude has easily doomed other solo navigators to watery deaths. However, I am curious if there are any people who would attempt this "Shackleton" style without the aid of modern technology.

Perhaps with merely a sextant. Dang, that is hard core.

Paul B
Jan 26, 2010, 12:45 PM
She needs to watch out for pirates (serious).

djellison
Jan 26, 2010, 01:17 PM
She needs to watch out for pirates (serious).

Actually - not so much. They mainly hang out between Oman / Yemen and Somalia. Her route will probably be LA, SW towards Australia / NZ, W across the Southern Indian Ocean, past South Africa, and then up the West coast of South America and back to LA.

Darth.Titan
Jan 26, 2010, 01:51 PM
I just don't get it. She's a minor. Where I live minors can't even work a job where they're required to use hazardous equipment, and that "hazardous equipment" can be something as simple as a tomato slicer. This voyage seems decidedly more dangerous.

I don't see how this could possibly not result in the parents going to jail for violating child abuse and neglect laws, especially if (God forbid) something happens to her.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that she is trained and I admire her bravery. That being said, what's to stop a 15 year old who is not so well trained from trying to emulate her feat?

I just hope that through the use of technology that this trip will be closely monitored.

dmr727
Jan 26, 2010, 05:43 PM
I just hope that through the use of technology that this trip will be closely monitored.

I bet it will be, but at the same time if something goes wrong, she's still going to have to deal with it all on her own until help arrives. And that could be awhile. It's not like she's being followed around by a chase yacht equipped with a rescue helicopter.

Like I said before, I admire the spirit. Even with all the tech and preparation, this is still a friggin' 40 foot sailboat out on the open ocean for six months with a 16 year old at the helm. That's pretty cool. However there's a small part of me that worries that this is a case of of yuppie parents living out a midlife crisis through their kids. I sure hope not. ;)

TuffLuffJimmy
Jan 26, 2010, 05:46 PM
It would be interesting if a seventeen year old didn't just do it (http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jul/17/sports/sp-zac-sunderland17).

But OMG she's almost a year younger!

dmr727
Jan 26, 2010, 05:53 PM
It would be interesting if a seventeen year old didn't just do it (http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jul/17/sports/sp-zac-sunderland17).

But OMG she's almost a year younger!

Well, she's trying to do it non-stop. Plus, and I hate to say it, but his sister is likely getting more press because she's female. That said, I don't think what he did was any less dangerous, and I applaud his effort as well. And where is the cutoff when this stops making sense (if it hasn't already)? 13? 10? 7?

RayStar
Jan 27, 2010, 09:34 AM
I think allowing a teenager to do this should be illegal. Is there another boat following her? I just don't like it.

ChrisA
Jan 27, 2010, 10:06 AM
Agreed. No way would I let my 16 year old do something like this.

Yes but your 16 year old does not have years worth of sailing experience.
Statistically this is not a high risk trip unless she's going for a record time. Whiout the racing aspect she can wait for good weather on each leg. The longest leg would bt from here (I live near here starting point) and Hawaii. That s a three week trip. But I don't know here rount. Most start by heading south to Mexico and then turn west at Cetral America. Lower rist because you do the first leg along the coast where ports are close by. I said "no race" but she will not be the yongest if yo times the typical one or two years

Pikemann Urge
Jan 28, 2010, 02:35 AM
Some responses surprise me. They appear to be in the best interest of the child. I don't think so. Well, whatever.

It seems to me that children should be encouraged to follow their calling. Most kids won't want to do this anyway, so we aren't at risk of a massive generational loss. One thing I stand for is the human spirit. Children should not be stopped from participating in the 'real' world.

Disclaimer: I don't have children.

djellison
Jan 28, 2010, 07:11 PM
I think allowing a teenager to do this should be illegal. Is there another boat following her? I just don't like it.

At what age SHOULD it be legal to sail around the world solo then? 17? 18? What occurs on the night of that birthday that renders the trip acceptable to you?

An inexperience 40 year old runs far more risk than an experiences 16 your old on this adventure.

Disc Golfer
Jan 30, 2010, 10:17 AM
They give 16 year olds driver licenses and even their own cars after what, 20 hours training in drivers ed? I'd wager driving on the interstate on a daily basis would be running a comparable risk to sailing across the ocean, particularly for someone who's likely had a lot more training at sailing than your average young driver has at driving. And like with driving, she'll either live through the event, or she won't. The major difference is the sense of accomplishment she'll have once she reaches her destination, and that's something she'll carry with her forever.

Abstract
Jan 30, 2010, 04:56 PM
I just don't get it. She's a minor. Where I live minors can't even work a job where they're required to use hazardous equipment, and that "hazardous equipment" can be something as simple as a tomato slicer. This voyage seems decidedly more dangerous.

I don't see how this could possibly not result in the parents going to jail for violating child abuse and neglect laws, especially if (God forbid) something happens to her.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that she is trained and I admire her bravery. That being said, what's to stop a 15 year old who is not so well trained from trying to emulate her feat?



I was thinking exactly the same thing. I don't know what the law in their country says about this sort of thing. What I do know is that if a child does this with her parents' permission, and the child were to die, I would have thought that the parents would be thrown in jail for negligence. :confused:

Personally, I don't mind that she's going. It's her decision, and if she dies, I would feel only a fraction of the sympathy than if she had died by accident, or murder. This is an extreme "sport", and extreme activities come with risks. However, it doesn't matter whether I think this child should be allowed to go. What does the law say? :confused: That's what determines jail time for the parents. If she dies, could this be considered manslaughter? The courts may have the viewpoint that the risk of death is the equivalent of throwing their child into shark infested waters. Even if it was the child's wish, it would obviously be illegal.

ucfgrad93
Jun 10, 2010, 05:50 PM
Things are not looking too good for Abby. I hope she is ok.

The parents of a 16-year-old Southern California girl feared missing while attempting a solo sail around the world are working closely with international rescue agencies to locate their daughter.

The search began for Abby Sunderland somewhere between Africa and Australia after emergency beacons were manually activated by the teen and there was a loss of communication.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/10/california-teen-solo-sail-bid-lost-sea/


And from her blog, which her parents are updating.

We spoke with Abby early this morning and learned that she had had a very rough day with winds up to 60 knots and seas 20-25 feet. She had been knocked down several times but was handling things well. The wind had subsided to around 35 knots which she and Wild Eyes are quite comfortable with.

We were helping her troubleshoot her engine that she was trying to start to charge her systems. Satellite phone reception was patchy. She was able to get the water out of the engine and start her up. We were waiting to hear back from her when American Search & Rescue authorities called to report having received a signal from her emergency beacon (EPIRB). We initially thought that the signal was sent automatically from her water-activated EPIRB and that it had been activated during one of her knockdowns. As we pulled the paperwork from her EPIRB registration, we learned that the signal had come from her manually activated EPIRB.

We were referred to Australian Search & Rescue and while we were on the phone with them another signal came in from her handheld PLB (Personal Locator Beacon). Her water-activated EPIRB has not been activated so we are hopeful that the boat is still upright.

We are working closely with American, French and Australian Search & Rescue authorities to coordinate several ships in the area to divert to her location. There are several ships in her area, the earliest possible contact is 40 hours. We are actively seeking out some sort of air rescue but this is difficult due to the remoteness of her location. Australian Search & Rescue have arranged to have a Quantas Airbus fly over her location at first light (she is 11 hours later). They will not be able to help her other than to talk via marine radio if they are able to get close enough. Hopefully, they will be able to assess her situation and report back to us.
http://soloround.blogspot.com/

GFLPraxis
Jun 10, 2010, 06:17 PM
:(

Hope she's alright.

Zombie Acorn
Jun 10, 2010, 06:18 PM
It would have been more impressive without all of the technology.

TuffLuffJimmy
Jun 10, 2010, 06:25 PM
It would have been more impressive without all of the technology.

*sigh* poor timing on your part, Zombie. You seem quite bitter at a time when for all we know that 16 year old is dead.

Erendiox
Jun 10, 2010, 06:30 PM
Let the girl live for gods sake. Sure it's dangerous, but all the greatest feats in life are. All you people talking about child abuse... I think you've been living inside a box for too long. What she's doing is amazing.

GFLPraxis
Jun 10, 2010, 06:31 PM
Let the girl live for gods sake. Sure it's dangerous, but all the greatest feats in life are. All you people talking about child abuse... I think you've been living inside a box for too long. What she's doing is amazing.

You obviously didn't read the update.

TuffLuffJimmy
Jun 10, 2010, 06:39 PM
You obviously didn't read the update.

Even with the update i wouldn't call it abuse nor blame the parents. No matter how this all turns out she did something pretty amazing.

ucfgrad93
Jun 10, 2010, 06:44 PM
Even with the update i wouldn't call it abuse nor blame the parents. No matter how this all turns out she did something pretty amazing.

While I wouldn't call it abuse either, I do think that the parents would be partly to blame if something does happen to her. In my opinion, something like this is just too dangerous for a 16-year-old to be doing.

Erendiox
Jun 10, 2010, 06:56 PM
You obviously didn't read the update.

Whoops, yea I missed that. Doesn't change my opinion, but yea, I hope she's ok.

Ttownbeast
Jun 10, 2010, 10:01 PM
We tend to caudle kids a bit too much these days, this is a more constructive activity than say learning parenthood the hard way by becoming pregnant, or learning business by becoming a crack dealer. I say let her sail rather than being stuck here where her career opportunities are limited.

NC MacGuy
Jun 10, 2010, 10:11 PM
It's not the issue of her sailing, it's the timing that's in question. Indian Ocean in June isn't for a small sailboat.

longball11
Jun 10, 2010, 11:26 PM
I got my car a little before I got my license. I deserved it. I won't say what car. It's better than yours. But with many horrible immature people in this world I think only 1/3 of the world should have driver's license. Accidents would reduced greatly.

TuffLuffJimmy
Jun 10, 2010, 11:34 PM
I got my car a little before I got my license. I deserved it. I won't say what car. It's better than yours. But with many horrible immature people in this world I think only 1/3 of the world should have driver's license. Accidents would reduced greatly.

....wut?

Cabbit
Jun 11, 2010, 05:07 AM
I just don't get it. She's a minor. Where I live minors can't even work a job where they're required to use hazardous equipment, and that "hazardous equipment" can be something as simple as a tomato slicer. This voyage seems decidedly more dangerous.

I don't see how this could possibly not result in the parents going to jail for violating child abuse and neglect laws, especially if (God forbid) something happens to her.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that she is trained and I admire her bravery. That being said, what's to stop a 15 year old who is not so well trained from trying to emulate her feat?

I just hope that through the use of technology that this trip will be closely monitored.

Why would a 16 year old be classed a minor? I was able to marry, have sex and get my own home as soon as i turned 16. I know England its 18 i think but still i would hardly call a 16 year old a kid.

steviem
Jun 11, 2010, 05:32 AM
Why would a 16 year old be classed a minor? I was able to marry, have sex and get my own home as soon as i turned 16. I know England its 18 i think but still i would hardly call a 16 year old a kid.

Sure, but you wouldn't be able to go to a pub for your Stag/Hen party. You wouldn't be able to vote or watch an 18 rated film in a cinema. You would also be hard pushed to being able to buy the materials and tools to be able to do any home improvement when you're under 18 too.

unid
Jun 11, 2010, 06:15 AM
According to that blog she is fine.

What intriques me is the sense of individual potential an achievement like this might create at such a young age.

I sailed out of sight of land frequently when at a similiar age, but it was merely in a little dinghy off the coast of cornwall where visibility is frequently low.

rdowns
Jun 11, 2010, 06:33 AM
I got my car a little before I got my license. I deserved it. I won't say what car. It's better than yours. But with many horrible immature people in this world I think only 1/3 of the world should have driver's license. Accidents would reduced greatly.


Wow. Just wow. http://www.tehprivates.com/images/smilies/DOH.gif

Keebler
Jun 11, 2010, 08:54 AM
i think the only thing this girl has done wrong (based on another article), is that she set sail at the wrong time of year. Apparently the Indian Sea can be simply treacherous this time of year b/c it's the winter in the southern hemisphere.

Other than that, she may be chronologically 16, but we all know most girls are far more mature than males so she's probably beyond her years.

Someone else said it best, if she's got years of experience, she's better off than most adults giving it a shot.

And, even though she didn't succeed, she can look at a globe (once they have her safe and sound) and realize she travelled all that way by herself.

There are plenty of 16 yr olds who can't even tie their own shoes, let alone sail around the world. Some kids won't even get a job b/c 'high school' is too much stress blah blah blah... Safe to say this generation of youth has alot handed to them without them trying and some of them expect even more (maybe our generation was like and our parents said the same thing).

Personally, I applaud her efforts and wish her well.

Achieving even part of her goal is something that 99.934347343472% of other kids have never done.

GOOD FOR HER!

Gregg2
Jun 11, 2010, 08:58 AM
... i would hardly call a 16 year old a kid. Neuroscience would. In fact, your brain is still maturing into your twenties.

I got my car a little before I got my license. I deserved it. I won't say what car. It's better than yours.
Well, if you choose a car as a status symbol to mask your insecurities...
I buy a car to get me from point A to point B. :rolleyes:

ucfgrad93
Jun 11, 2010, 09:58 AM
Glad to hear that she is ok. Hopefully the weather will remain calm and she is picked up without and further incidents.

quagmire
Jun 11, 2010, 10:50 AM
Neuroscience would. In fact, your brain is still maturing into your twenties.

So if a 22 year old did this, would you still be saying it would be irresponsible? Since your brain is still maturing.......

I see no problem with this besides her decision to do it in the winter. People are way too uptight with kids these days trying to protect them from everything "bad" in the world( bad in quotes due to the subjectivity of what is truly bad). I do find it ironic that in some states, it is legal to give consent at 16, but in order to watch sex you have to be 18. But, that is another topic for another thread.


Well, if you choose a car as a status symbol to mask your insecurities...
I buy a car to get me from point A to point B. :rolleyes:

I buy a car based on how fun it is between points A and B. :) To me, cars are not a toaster on wheels.

obeygiant
Jun 11, 2010, 11:51 AM
So if a 22 year old did this, would you still be saying it would be irresponsible? Since your brain is still maturing.......

The more years you put between your age now and 22 you realize, "yeah, I was pretty much a dumbass."

quagmire
Jun 11, 2010, 12:05 PM
The more years you put between your age now and 22 you realize, "yeah, I was pretty much a dumbass."

I am 4 years departed from 16, and I would not call myself a dumbass at that age. Did I make some mistakes? Yes, but I wasn't the typical immature prick teens are who do stupid crap like throwing toilet paper on peoples houses, knocking mailboxes down, drugs, getting wasted, etc. Hell at 16, I was a very cautious driver. Since then I have only had one speeding ticket and been in one accident( other drivers fault). At 17, I got a job working nights at a car dealership working during the spring of Junior year and all through senior year. I never got a detention in school. I always paid attention in class and took notes like I should. I behaved at school. It's hard to judge maturity by simply going by age. If this girl had the maturity and experience( from what it seems, she has been sailing all her life), then I see no problem with her trying to accomplish her goal. If she did die because of it, I still wouldn't have a problem with it. I would rather die trying to do what she did then die because I was immature and OD on some drug like other teens do.

People are too uptight and think teenagers are incapable of doing anything for themselves.

Gregg2
Jun 11, 2010, 12:32 PM
So if a 22 year old did this, would you still be saying it would be irresponsible? Since your brain is still maturing.......

Never said anything about responsible or irresponsible. Just commented about age of a kid vs. adult.


I buy a car based on how fun it is between points A and B. :) To me, cars are not a toaster on wheels.

I sincerely hope you always get to point B.

quagmire
Jun 11, 2010, 12:38 PM
I sincerely hope you always get to point B.

Thanks. But, having a fun car to drive doesn't mean I drive it recklessly. :)

Signal-11
Jun 11, 2010, 01:55 PM
I think it's great that people don't understand the Sunderland girl making the attempt and not comprehending her parents' trust in her. If everyone in the world thought like her and her parents, human society and civilization would probably quickly fall apart. The majority of people need to stay home and not lead the life less ordinary. That's fine. Ordinary is okay. Normal is good. In fact, the more I've deviated from the norm, the more I realize normal is great. Ain't nothing wrong with vanilla.

What offends me are the people who suggest that she's less capable of mitigating the risks or that her parents are guilty of criminal neglect. Now we're getting into the world view that everyone must think like you and behave as you do. If they don't, they must be punished. WTF is that? Seriously, that's a the shadow of a Chinese wheat proverb gone bad.

Some 16 year olds are ready for responsibility. You give them great responsibility and they respond by rising to the occasion. You place trust in them and they'll respond by showing you that they're trustworthy. I've seen 16 year olds that are much more fastidious and responsible than the adults around them simply because that's what's expected of them.

Then there's that other hand, where if you treat a teenager like a child, they respond by being children. I saw a this in a lot of overprotective parents and overprotected kids when I was growing up. Kids who were never allowed to explore, grow on their own or do anything outside of the view of their parents ending up being the most stunted and childish.

Most teenagers are somewhere in the middle of that spectrum but just because your particular view is of one end doesn't mean the other doesn't exist.

Anyway, so young Abby tried something that all but the very tiniest fraction of humankind would believe an impossible task for themselves. If given the opportunity, most of people wouldn't even try out of nothing but fear.

How lonely.

So I used to work with this dude, a former Dutch Royal Marine, who I kept running into on different assignments all over the world. This guy always had better adventure stories than everyone else in an organization full of adventurer types. Definitely a one-upper, but I didn't mind so much because they were some great stories.

Once, he told me about the time he sailed solo from Indonesia to the Netherlands. He hadn't really prepped himself for it (was sort of tooling around the archipelago on a kayak) and had done it on kind of a whim when a countryman with more money than sense bought a wooden sailboat before the fool realized that he wasn't capable of sailing it back to Europe. So he hired my friend.

Anyway, because he hadn't really thought things through himself, my friend hadn't taken anything to keep his mind occupied. At one point in the journey, during some particularly calm seas, he found himself entertaining himself at night by cutting off small pieces of his t-shirt and placing them into sardine tins (with the oil still in them) as wicks, lighting the cloth, placing the tins into the water and watching them float off. This was his entertainment.

Eventually had to stop because he ran out of clothes to burn.

Oddly enough, he told me this story while we were bored out of our minds sitting out a dust storm in a desert.

Antares
Jun 11, 2010, 04:12 PM
Neuroscience would. In fact, your brain is still maturing into your twenties.

The things that people do/are allowed to do should not have anything to do with age or the maturity of the brain. It should only invole one's skill and ability to complete the task successfully. Be it a 12 year old or a 43 year old. What this girl attempted is admirable. 16 isn't too young, by the least bit....as long as she had the knowledge, training and experience...which she obviously seems to have had.

As others have said, our society coddles children too much these days. Instead, we should let them go out and experience things, free from the limitations that are placed on them today. If you teach and train children properly, they will be able to handle whatever they want to do, without any more issues than a person 10, 20 or 30 years older. Moreover, this overprotection of children is what is really limiting them and preventing them from truly developing to their full potential. This "overprotection" of children is doing them more harm than anything else.

bobr1952
Jun 11, 2010, 04:27 PM
I totally agree--kids her age and younger are capable of a lot more than some would allow them to do. If they are capable of the task, and it is a reasonable task that an older person would attempt, then why not give the kid the opportunity. Coddling is really out of hand especially it seems here in the US.

I'm really happy to hear that Abby is doing well--she really seems to have things well under control considering the circumstances.

Ttownbeast
Jun 11, 2010, 07:29 PM
In the summers from 8 years old to 11 I used to inner tube on the rivers in lane county Oregon sometimes taking trips as long as 15 miles along a few of the Willamette rivers tributaries gone from sunrise to sunset in most cases my parents didn't worry much and I always got home safe. The rapids were always fun to run in a giant truck tube. Taking long bicycle rides weren't that unusual either a few times I took my Huffy 12 speed and would do 50 to 60 miles on the old logging roads in the area too. All this before I was even anywhere near my teens.

MacNut
Jun 11, 2010, 07:44 PM
People are too uptight and think teenagers are incapable of doing anything for themselves.For the most part teenagers are dumb *****. When I turned 21 I thought I was all grown up. I
am 30 now and looking back now I don't think I really grew up until 25.

TuffLuffJimmy
Jun 11, 2010, 07:48 PM
For the most part teenagers are dumb *****. When I turned 21 I thought I was all grown up. I
am 30 now and looking back now I don't think I really grew up until 25.

Juat because you were a dumb **** doesn't mean all, or even most, teenagers are.

MacNut
Jun 11, 2010, 07:49 PM
Juat because you were a dumb **** doesn't mean all, or even most, teenagers are.Have you seen most teenagers? I don't care how old you think you feel, everyone has to grow up before they realize that they were a dumb ****.

Gregg2
Jun 11, 2010, 08:22 PM
The things that people do/are allowed to do should have not have anything to do with age or the maturity of the brain. It should only invole one's skill and ability to complete the task successfully.

:rolleyes: Anybody else want to read something into my post that isn't there?

However, this is a very ludicrous statement, when made without qualification! Sure, let's let 3 year olds smoke, and 9 year olds run the nuclear power plant! I don't care if the 9 year old is a genius and has the skill and ability to run that plant. The maturity level is still an issue, 'cause one moment of immaturity, and boom! we're toast.

The neuroscience I was referring to deals with the fact that parts of the brain that perceive danger are not developed even in the late teens. This is in fact a very good argument for not allowing teens to drive cars! (or serve in the military!!) Many states have compromised by issuing drivers licenses in stages, tied to the age of the driver. After all, a disproportionate number of drivers who cause accidents are young (also inexperienced, I know). Uh-oh, here come the angry posts of teen drivers... wait, take out the "angry posts" part! :eek:

TuffLuffJimmy
Jun 11, 2010, 08:29 PM
Have you seen most teenagers? I don't care how old you think you feel, everyone has to grow up before they realize that they were a dumb ****.

That seems like circular reasoning. Perhaps one day you will feel older yet and think of your current self as a dumb ****.

Signal-11
Jun 11, 2010, 10:16 PM
The neuroscience I was referring to deals with the fact that parts of the brain that perceive danger are not developed even in the late teens. This is in fact a very good argument for not allowing teens to drive cars! (or serve in the military!!) Many states have compromised by issuing drivers licenses in stages, tied to the age of the driver. After all, a disproportionate number of drivers who cause accidents are young (also inexperienced, I know). Uh-oh, here come the angry posts of teen drivers... wait, take out the "angry posts" part! :eek:

The functioning of militaries (well, the Real military and not the Air Force) throughout history have been predicated on the idea of teenagers and young men with more balls than sense. In fact, all war is predicated on it.

What you say about neurological development is true and no one is denying this. Teenagers don't perceive risk (this is the word you were looking for, not danger) in the same way older people do. There's also a difference in genders.

The trouble comes when you start applying biological reasoning to entire populations with no concern paid to outliers. This discussion started with Abby Sunderland, who is obviously not a run of the mill kid. In some ways, this young woman probably has a better head on her shoulders than most. Yet some would like to apply the ageist argument that because she's 16, she's simply incapable of 'feats' of sailing than someone two, three years her senior? Now THAT notion is ridiculous.

Plus there's a whole line of reasoning that goes that certain physical skills can only be taught at a young age before people start developing a sense of physical risk.

For the most part teenagers are dumb *****. When I turned 21 I thought I was all grown up. I
am 30 now and looking back now I don't think I really grew up until 25.

I'm older than you are by a few years and I can tell you than I'm still nowhere near being a "grown-up." The only thing I've realized about growing up is that all those people who I thought were grown-ups that came before me and I looked up to were doing the same thing I'm doing now, which is making **** up as the go along and hoping things turn out okay.

I was probably a much bigger dumbass than you when I was 16. In fact, I'd say my failures were pretty spectacular. When I was 16, I'd already managed to fail out of college (in the US sense, university for RoW readers) mostly because the only thing I really cared about was fighting and fight sports. I would later manage to repeat this little feat of academic self destruction before earning my first set of bachelors degrees. By my 17th birthday, I had already lost two professional fights by KO. By 18, I'd managed to get myself choked unconscious several times in collegiate judo competition in Korea and Japan, (and more than once by future Olympians) because I was too stupid to tap. Two weeks after I turned 18, I walked into the ROTC building saying "Sign me up! I want the contract that lets me jump out of airplanes and helicopters." Fast forward a few years and it turns out that I don't really believe in war. Too bad I signed that contract when I was 18. Doh.

My entire teens were about trying to go too far, too fast while losing massive amounts of brain cells along the way. And yet I don't regret a moment of it because I had the chance to make those mistakes on my own merits. Or lack of merit. And even though I'm still (physically) paying for those mistakes.

I see teenagers being coddled by society, turned into overgrown children - and in this instance, I am using the phrase pejoratively - who jump at shadows, fear the unknown and are incapable of forming their own thoughts; who are always looking for an authority figure to protect them from what they don't understand, who are afraid to try new things and learn more about the world around them; people who aren't capable of taking responsibility for their own actions and are always on the lookout for someone else to blame.

This is what you end up with when you're not allowed to stand on your own two feet, fail and then get back up.

So what's the worst that can happen for the teenagers who reach a little too far while trying to excel? A couple of them take themselves out of the gene pool? Small price to pay for a truly free society.

/rant

BTW, That wasn't personally directed at you, MacNut. Rant just kinda got out of hand.

MacNut
Jun 11, 2010, 10:43 PM
BTW, That wasn't personally directed at you, MacNut. Rant just kinda got out of hand.Don't worry about it.

The older you get as a person the more you learn, We will always look back at our past and think wow I have changed. Every year you learn more about yourself and the world around you. To say at 16 that you are all grown up is bull. We will always make mistakes that we wish we could get back and do over but we can only learn from our past and move forward.

I would love to go back to age 14-21 and just get a big do over.

dmr727
Jun 12, 2010, 11:31 AM
I tend to look back at myself in five year intervals, and each time I'm astounded by what a dumbass I was. I figure this will be true for the rest of my life. :)

But I don't think any of this is all that relevant to the issue - if Abby Sunderland is prepared for this kind of trip, she's prepared for this kind of trip. And as long as this is the case, I admire the attempt.

My worry is that attempts to beat age records apply a time pressure that could potentially cause corners to be cut in preparation, or less than sound judgement to be used. Not saying that's the case here, but I could see it happening.

cloroxbleach4
Jun 12, 2010, 08:56 PM
Just watched a cnn segement about this girl. Pretty amazing that she tried. Also her brother did it before.

She must have those sail around the world by yourself genes. Hard to find.