AT&T Losing iPhone Exclusivity on Wednesday?

[icyfire]

http://hothardware.com/News/Will-ATT-Lose-Their-iPhone-Exclusivity-On-Wednesday/

According to an inside source close to the going-ons involved in all of this, a new tablet of some sort may not be the only thing on deck for next Wednesday though. We have been led to believe by an inside source that AT&T will lose their iPhone exclusivity on the same day, though it's not yet clear what other carrier (or carriers) will be stepping in to also carry the phone.

Hmm, obviously this article is just another "rumor" article, but aren't Apple events usually on Tuesdays while this one is on a Wednesday? In fact, before the official announcement, most people expected the event to be on Jan 26th. So could this possibly mean that Apple has positioned the event to coincide with the expiration of their AT&T exclusivity contract?

[jav6454]

No one knows how long the original iPhone and post iPhone 3G contracts were. And I mean no one outside Apple HQ and AT&T HQ. Everyone is assuming and doing wishful thinking on mere analysis.

Verizon will not carry the iPhone for a long time. So quit it with such threads... once LTE is up and running then, yes I'll feel more comfortable saying, Verizon might get it soon.

[thelatinist]

Nobody knows anything.

[Rodimus Prime]

No one knows how long the original iPhone and post iPhone 3G contracts were. And I mean no one outside Apple HQ and AT&T HQ. Everyone is assuming and doing wishful thinking on mere analysis.

Verizon will not carry the iPhone for a long time. So quit it with such threads... once LTE is up and running then, yes I'll feel more comfortable saying, Verizon might get it soon.

Why is everyone seem to link it to LTE.....

Verizon going LTE does not remove the requirement for the iPhone or any phone on Verizon network from having to support CDMA.
All 3G GSM phones on AT&T network or other GSM networks are required to support Edge, GPRS and GSM. So for 3G phones current out on lets say AT&T network already have to support all 4 of those types. When AT&T adds LTE that means it has to support that on top of the other 4 making it 5 different types of signals the phone would need to be able to flip between.

The older stuff stays active because it is already up and running and works everywhere. All they can do is general upgrade towers which as you can tell takes decades. the GPRS and GSM signal types required to support are already over 20 years old and not going to go away any time soon.

[kdarling]

No one knows how long the original iPhone and post iPhone 3G contracts were. And I mean no one outside Apple HQ and AT&T HQ. Everyone is assuming and doing wishful thinking on mere analysis.

That's true.

Verizon will not carry the iPhone for a long time.

Now who's "assuming and doing wishful thinking on mere analysis"? :)

You're doing the same as everyone else: making deductions based on available evidence.

MacRumors exists for the purpose of trying to make sense out of available information.

[DakotaGuy]

Why is everyone seem to link it to LTE.....

Verizon going LTE does not remove the requirement for the iPhone or any phone on Verizon network from having to support CDMA.
All 3G GSM phones on AT&T network or other GSM networks are required to support Edge, GPRS and GSM. So for 3G phones current out on lets say AT&T network already have to support all 4 of those types. When AT&T adds LTE that means it has to support that on top of the other 4 making it 5 different types of signals the phone would need to be able to flip between.

The older stuff stays active because it is already up and running and works everywhere. All they can do is general upgrade towers which as you can tell takes decades. the GPRS and GSM signal types required to support are already over 20 years old and not going to go away any time soon.

I agree LTE has nothing to do with it. Any phone that goes on Verizon will have to support CDMA for voice and for data to fall back to EVDO when LTE is not in the area. It will be years before Verizon is doing VoIP on LTE. If you honestly believe either Apple won't or can't build a CDMA iPhone, then it will probably be closer to later this decade before we ever see a Verizon one.

It is going to be so funny to see if and when this happens. What will all the people who say Apple will never do this say then???

[JoJoCal19]

It is going to be so funny to see if and when this happens. What will all the people who say Apple will never do this say then???

They wont be able to say anything since they will be choking on crow.

[Mystikal]

EVERYTHING is a rumor until Wednesday.

[rdowns]

Wouldn't a CDMA iPhone have to get FCC approval? If so, then if there was a Verizon phone, we'd have heard of the FCC filings. Face it, Verizon isn't getting the iPhone anytime soon.

[balamw]

Far more likely that we will see a T-Mobile 3G compatible iPhone first. Though we could hear about a VZ/CDMA phone coming in June on Wed.

I think some other hints of AT&T losing exclusivity were visible in their CES press release.

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=4800&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=30353

Big push to get developers to develop apps for phones other than iPhone.

“Today some AT&T customers can take advantage of more than 100,000 apps – but only if they have the right handset. Our goal is to bring more apps to millions more of our customers who want convenient access to the market’s hottest apps. At the same time, in the future, we plan to go well beyond mobile devices to spur apps development.”

B

[kdarling]

I think some other hints of AT&T losing exclusivity were visible in their CES press release.

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=4800&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=30353

Big push to get developers to develop apps for phones other than iPhone.

Yes, we members of the ATT developer's program have been getting asked to enter internal contests for creating content for other devices.

ATT is smart: never put all your eggs in one basket.

[schwell]

Yes, we members of the ATT developer's program have been getting asked to enter internal contests for creating content for other devices.

ATT is smart: never put all your eggs in one basket.

AT&T may not have all their eggs in one basket, but they do have most of their golden eggs in one basket. It is just a matter of time before the goose laying those golden eggs starts supplying them to the competition. :)

AT&T is looking for more geese with the ability to produce golden eggs.

[zap2]

This is wonderful news!

For those on AT&T, reduces the strain on AT&T's network

For those not on AT&T, you can get the iPhone on their network of choice


I'm hoping this is true(considering a jump to T Mobile)

[Ambrose Chapel]

if there is a new iPhone for vzn, wouldn't it have to undergo an FCC review prior to sale? If so Apple may be doing the same thing it did with the original - announce it now themselves so it isn't outed by the FCC later.

[balamw]

ATT is smart: never put all your eggs in one basket.
I don't know, I read a bit of a tone of desperation into that press release.

Perhaps I'd feel differently if they mentioned the iPhone by name.

"We've been really successful with apps on the iPhone and want to build on that success and make apps available for all handsets in our network...."

As the PR stands it seems like AT&T is trying hard not to use the name of a former lover who cheated on them.

B

[AHDuke99]

It would clear up some of the congestion on AT&T, which would be great for me and others who like the network. Then we can see Verizon go through the same growing pains, which would be kind of funny. The iPhone uses a lot more data than the Droid, Nextus One or anything else Verizon has right now.

[blancoBronco]

I would laugh so hard if the iPhone does go to Verizon, they have to use the EDGE network with it for a year like us on AT&T had to

[Medinarem]

Unless the Iphone becomes available on Jan 27th for verizon Apple will not say it will be switching providers or making any comments on additional networks. If apple does this they will loose customers.

[labman]

when at least for a day or two all the bs rumors stop I have had enough dumb rumors for a a while. :rolleyes:

[blancoBronco]

when at least for a day or two all the bs rumors stop I have had enough dumb rumors for a a while. :rolleyes:

you do know the website is called macRUMORS, right?

[icyfire]

if there is a new iPhone for vzn, wouldn't it have to undergo an FCC review prior to sale? If so Apple may be doing the same thing it did with the original - announce it now themselves so it isn't outed by the FCC later.

Actually, this sounds likely. Apple would never want the FCC leaking out anything about their "precious". In any case, I wouldn't mind hearing about it now and then waiting until June because frankly I'm sick of Verizon's selection of smartphones, but I could never give up Verizon's excellent coverage.

[beamer8912]

Wouldn't a CDMA iPhone have to get FCC approval? If so, then if there was a Verizon phone, we'd have heard of the FCC filings. Face it, Verizon isn't getting the iPhone anytime soon.

Would you need FCC approval in January for a phone most likely coming out in June?

[zap2]

I would laugh so hard if the iPhone does go to Verizon, they have to use the EDGE network with it for a year like us on AT&T had to

Verizon doesn't have EDGE data. In fact their 3G isn't to far from AT&T EDGE speeds.

[blancoBronco]

Verizon doesn't have EDGE data. In fact their 3G isn't to far from AT&T EDGE speeds.

ya, i realized that right after i posted it. I meant like either their equivalent of EDGE or just not their 3G

[chstr]

Verizon doesn't have EDGE data. In fact their 3G isn't to far from AT&T EDGE speeds.

Yeah right. Nice try. I have a mifi on verizon and it's comparable to some wifi speeds I've used and much more reliable connection. Even up in the catskills

[icyfire]

Verizon doesn't have EDGE data. In fact their 3G isn't to far from AT&T EDGE speeds.

I've used EDGE and I currently have the Droid. Verizon's EVDO is much faster than EDGE and is a hell of a lot more reliable than AT&T's 3G.

[starcrossed]

I would be absolutely happy if Apple is able to bring the iPhone to AT&T and Verizon simultaneously. I can just see the hoards of folks jumping ship from AT&T to Verizon and hopefully it would me less strain on the AT&T network for folks like me that will stay with them. I see AT&T agreeing to allow the iPhone not to be just exclusive to them anymore, rather than lose the iPhone to Verizon altogether. I just hope features and prices stay similar between networks.

[Michaelingleo]

It would clear up some of the congestion on AT&T, which would be great for me and others who like the network. Then we can see Verizon go through the same growing pains, which would be kind of funny. The iPhone uses a lot more data than the Droid, Nextus One or anything else Verizon has right now.

Are you kidding? AT&T has the worst network, Verizon has the best without doubt. You are truly a Mac snob. I love Mac as well but you have to be realistic, the only thing that is keeping AT&T competitive is the iphone. That would be the best thing for iphone is to pair up with Verizon.

[Applejuiced]

Are you kidding? AT&T has the worst network, Verizon has the best without doubt. You are truly a Mac snob. I love Mac as well but you have to be realistic, the only thing that is keeping AT&T competitive is the iphone. That would be the best thing for iphone is to pair up with Verizon.


Are you kidding? AT&T is far from the worst network.
Keep buying those Verizon commercials.....

I've used EDGE and I currently have the Droid. Verizon's EVDO is much faster than EDGE and is a hell of a lot more reliable than AT&T's 3G.

Can you say slooooooooow

[blancoBronco]

AT&T has the worst network, Verizon has the best without doubt.

Let's please not start this. "best" is arbitrary. you could mean largest or fastest, and neither are both

[iObama]

I hoep it loses its exclusivity and heads its way on over to Sprint. Best combo of price and awesome network coverage where I live.

[Michaelingleo]

Are you kidding? AT&T is far from the worst network.
Keep buying those Verizon commercials.....

Compared to Verizon, my bad. Having experienced both, can you say sloooooooo? You keep believing the commercials, try Verizon and if you are truly objective you will see the difference in one day.

[jav6454]

I've used EDGE and I currently have the Droid. Verizon's EVDO is much faster than EDGE and is a hell of a lot more reliable than AT&T's 3G.

Verizon's EV-DO is as spread as far and wide as AT&T's EDGE network. Both have the same handicaps (can't talk and surf at same time); and yet one is considered 2.75G and the other 3G when their theoretical speeds are very close to each other.

[Mikey B]

Compared to Verizon, my bad. Having experienced both, can you say sloooooooo? You keep believing the commercials, try Verizon and if you are truly objective you will see the difference in one day.

I think the point is that anyone's mileage can vary on any network. Back home in Ann Arbor, I want to pummel my iPhone with a sledgehammer on a daily basis due to dropped calls and slow or non-existant data despite "full bars."

I've been on Oahu for a week and it is a whole different game here. Blows me away that I get 100x better service in the middle of the Pacific than in metro Detroit, but it makes sense when you think about it. The reliability of a phone is pretty well tied to the amount of congestion on the network.

We will see about Verizon when they have the same number of users as AT&T using a smartphone as data-heavy as the iPhone. And even than it's going to be totally dependent on where you are at any given time. I know plenty of people that have had zero connectivity issues with AT&T and plenty who have them. The same is true for VZN.

[Applejuiced]

Compared to Verizon, my bad. Having experienced both, can you say sloooooooo? You keep believing the commercials, try Verizon and if you are truly objective you will see the difference in one day.

Where I live AT&T has the best coverage and fastest 3G speeds.
That's all that matters to me

[labman]

you do know the website is called macRUMORS, right?

but that doesn't mean every idiots rumor needs to be posted as if it's the absolute truth! :rolleyes: I hoping there is no Tablet Wens simply for the laugh
:p even though I am pretty sure there will be one announced myself.

[Techhie]

Where I live AT&T has the best coverage and fastest 3G speeds.
That's all that matters to me

at this point, I've been through every ****** piece of gear Verizon can shell out, and want an iPhone regardless of the speed it gets on the CDMA side

[Applejuiced]

at this point, I've been through every ****** piece of gear Verizon can shell out, and want an iPhone regardless of the speed it gets on the CDMA side

Can't blame you.
Verizon since forever had the worst selection of
phones on the market up untill 6-7 months ago with a few
decent device additions.

[Michaelingleo]

Where I live AT&T has the best coverage and fastest 3G speeds.
That's all that matters to me

You are exactly right, I just know that I travel all around the state and even though I am with Sprint now because of the radio for business, Verizon has had the best coverage where I travel. I would love to have the iPhone but as I said the radio is a must for me in my business. I hope and wish the iPhone becomes available for all the networks because we all know how awesome it is.

[tasset]

I see some replies that Apple wouldn't pre-announce a Verizon iPhone that won't be released until the March-June. But wouldn't it be worth it to Apple to throw a cold bucket of water on Palm and Google to keep all those potential buyers who might lock themselves into contracts in the next couple of months and keep them on the fence instead?

[Michaelingleo]

Give us the scoop!

[AHDuke99]

Are you kidding? AT&T has the worst network, Verizon has the best without doubt. You are truly a Mac snob. I love Mac as well but you have to be realistic, the only thing that is keeping AT&T competitive is the iphone. That would be the best thing for iphone is to pair up with Verizon.

No need to call me a "snob." I've been with AT&T/Cingular since 2003, and they've always been good for me, provided the best coverage, and the best customer service. I won't switch to anyone else. To each his own. Also, Cingular was the largest wireless provider (larger than Verizon) when ATT Wireless and Cingular merged, long before the iPhone, so AT&T was doing fine even before the iPhone. They won't be disappearing if Verizon gets the iPhone. In many ways, the iPhone is to blame for all the network congestion and the like, because it is such a data hog.

I see some replies that Apple wouldn't pre-announce a Verizon iPhone that won't be released until the March-June. But wouldn't it be worth it to Apple to throw a cold bucket of water on Palm and Google to keep all those potential buyers who might lock themselves into contracts in the next couple of months and keep them on the fence instead?

It may hurt iPhone sales between now and release, but you're right, I bet a lot less people put down money on the Nextus One and Palm Pixi if they know the iPhone is coming in a few months.

[JoJoCal19]

Verizon's EV-DO is as spread as far and wide as AT&T's EDGE network. Both have the same handicaps (can't talk and surf at same time); and yet one is considered 2.75G and the other 3G when their theoretical speeds are very close to each other.

You couldn't be more wrong. Verizons ACTUAL EV-DO speeds kill anything EDGE could ever hope for. I owned an iPhone and used EDGE. I now have a Droid. I would know.

Its more like Verizons EV-DO is not as fast as ATT's theoretical 3G speeds but it sure is as fast or faster than ATT's ACTUAL 3G speeds.

My Droid and my friends iPhone in a great ATT 3G area. And this was off peak time. Almost all iPhone users I know get around this speed or up to 1.8Mbps.

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/9881/cimg1701.jpg

[DakotaGuy]

Verizon's EV-DO is as spread as far and wide as AT&T's EDGE network. Both have the same handicaps (can't talk and surf at same time); and yet one is considered 2.75G and the other 3G when their theoretical speeds are very close to each other.

Really? Your telling me that EDGE is about as fast as EV-DO RevA?

Taken from the AT&T website.

"The AT&T EDGE network is available in more than 13,000 cities and towns and in areas along 40,000 miles of highways. It provides average data speeds between 75-135Kbps."

Taken from the Verizon website.

"3G brings wireless broadband data services to your mobile phone at average download speeds that range from 600 Kbps (that's 2.4 times faster than 254Kbps DSL modem connection) to 1.4Mbps."

So EDGE is advertised to be 75-135Kbps and EV-DO RevA is 600 Kbps to 1.4Mbps yet you say they are "about the same speed." Sorry I don't believe it.

I attached a picture of a speed test that I just did. Judge for yourself.

[jav6454]

... snip 1....

... snip 2...





Read EV-DO Rev 0, it is far and wide... more so than Rev A

[CooKieMoNs7eR]

damn i was just gonna post this topic

[DakotaGuy]

Read EV-DO Rev 0, it is far and wide... more so than Rev A

Verizon is running EV-DO Rev A just about everywhere now. If you can find some information that says the opposite I'd love to see it.

[Michaelingleo]

No need to call me a "snob." I've been with AT&T/Cingular since 2003, and they've always been good for me, provided the best coverage, and the best customer service. I won't switch to anyone else. To each his own. Also, Cingular was the largest wireless provider (larger than Verizon) when ATT Wireless and Cingular merged, long before the iPhone, so AT&T was doing fine even before the iPhone. They won't be disappearing if Verizon gets the iPhone. In many ways, the iPhone is to blame for all the network congestion and the like, because it is such a data hog.



It may hurt iPhone sales between now and release, but you're right, I bet a lot less people put down money on the Nextus One and Palm Pixi if they know the iPhone is coming in a few months.



It wasn't meant to be inflammatory, I am a Mac snob! From my experience AT&T is inferior to Verizon as far as coverage. I have had most all of the services at some time or other and I have found that Verizon has the best coverage. In my opinion!

[kdarling]

Would you need FCC approval in January for a phone most likely coming out in June?

Nope. You simply need your tests approved by the FCC by the day you start sales. One trick is to submit your results and ask that they not be approved until a certain date. (Because after approval the results are made public no matter what.)

The first iPhone began secret mass field trials a month before public FCC approval, btw.

[kevink2]

I would laugh so hard if the iPhone does go to Verizon, they have to use the EDGE network with it for a year like us on AT&T had to

Except for some towers in rural areas, what Edge towers does Verizon have? And their current phones don't roam onto GSM towers anyway (except for, possibly, some foreign ones on "world" phones).

[kdarling]

Verizon's EV-DO is as spread as far and wide as AT&T's EDGE network. Both have the same handicaps (can't talk and surf at same time); and yet one is considered 2.75G and the other 3G when their theoretical speeds are very close to each other.

Theoretical is meaningless. Heck, EVDO Rev A's theoretical maximum is over 3MBps, but no one ever hits that.

EDGE does not go faster than ~384Kbps on any actual carrier or device, whereas in real life EVDO Rev A usually starts over 600Kbps and often hits 2Mbps, with a few getting 2.5Mbps.

Similarily, so-called 7.2 HSDPA will actually average 2.4Mbps in real life, according to studies where it's been used overseas, with speeds starting much lower and sometimes going much higher.

[jav6454]

Theoretical is meaningless. Heck, EVDO Rev A's theoretical maximum is over 3MBps, but no one ever hits that.

EDGE does not go faster than ~384Kbps on any actual carrier or device, whereas in real life EVDO Rev A usually starts over 600Kbps and often hits 2Mbps, with a few getting 2.5Mbps.

Similarily, so-called 7.2Mbps HSDPA will actually average 2.4Mbps in real life, according to studies where it's been used overseas.

Very true... I have always said no one can reach Theoretical speeds.

[yg17]

My Droid and my friends iPhone in a great ATT 3G area. And this was off peak time. Almost all iPhone users I know get around this speed or up to 1.8Mbps.


212105

And if you were in my area, AT&T's 3G network would beat the piss out of Verizon's. See why posting comparisons like that is pointless?

[DakotaGuy]

212105

And if you were in my area, AT&T's 3G network would beat the piss out of Verizon's. See why posting comparisons like that is pointless?

I think the main reason that some of us posted them was because someone made the claim that Verizon 3G really isn't much faster then AT&T EDGE.

[yg17]

I think the main reason that some of us posted them was because someone made the claim that Verizon 3G really isn't much faster then AT&T EDGE.

And I bet someone on here lives in an area where Verizon's 3G is as slow as EDGE and could post a speed test screenshot to prove it. That's why these speed comparisons between carriers are useless, for every claim someone makes, someone else can post a speed test result disproving it. There are a ton of factors that determine speed, and no one network is faster. Use what's best where you live and stop arguing about it over the internet.

[JoJoCal19]

And I bet someone on here lives in an area where Verizon's 3G is as slow as EDGE and could post a speed test screenshot to prove it. That's why these speed comparisons between carriers are useless, for every claim someone makes, someone else can post a speed test result disproving it. There are a ton of factors that determine speed, and no one network is faster. Use what's best where you live and stop arguing about it over the internet.

No, not goin to happen pal. EDGE hits like 3xx kbps. Try and find someone on on Verizons network only getting that much. Because if they are on a Rev A device it wont be anywhere near that low.

Read EV-DO Rev 0, it is far and wide... more so than Rev A

And Rev A is available in more places than ATT's 3G.

[thetexan]

Read EV-DO Rev 0, it is far and wide... more so than Rev A

You just proved you don't know what you're talking about.

http://www.fiercewireless.com/press-releases/verizon-wireless-100-percent-wireless-broadband-network-now-enhanced-faster-speeds

Both Verizon and Sprint have upgraded 100% of their EVDO capable network to Rev A. Verizon has been 100% Rev. A for almost three years now.

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/25/atandt-losing-iphone-exclusivity-on-wednesday/)

HotHardware claims (http://hothardware.com/News/Will%2DATT%2DLose%2DTheir%2DiPhone%2DExclusivity%2DOn%2DWednesday/) that AT&T may be losing its iPhone exclusivity as early as Wednesday at Apple's media event: According to an inside source close to the going-ons involved in all of this, a new tablet of some sort may not be the only thing on deck for next Wednesday though. We have been led to believe by an inside source that AT&T will lose their iPhone exclusivity on the same day, though it's not yet clear what other carrier (or carriers) will be stepping in to also carry the phoneWe've never reported on a rumor from HotHardware before, so we have no record of the accuracy of their sources. That said, AT&T exclusivity has been a hot topic ever since the iPhone was released. In the U.S., AT&T remains the only mobile phone carrier that offers the iPhone.

This deal has been rumored to be expiring in mid 2010 with indications (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/06/analyst-claims-qualcomm-3g-chip-destined-for-verizon-iphone-tablet-based-on-p-a-semi-processor/) that Apple has been working on a Verizon-compatible iPhone. While the announcement of a Verizon-compatible iPhone certainly seems possible this year, we're not sure how it would fit in with what is believed to be an event focused on the new Apple Tablet.

Article Link: AT&T Losing iPhone Exclusivity on Wednesday? (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/25/atandt-losing-iphone-exclusivity-on-wednesday/)

[Peace]

If this is the case and the iPhone goes to Verizon won't Apple have to introduce a new CDMA phone Wednesday also ?

[gibbz]

Would make sense if they are going to put the tablet out with a Verizon option. Might as well also announce that iPhone is available on Verizon at the same time.

[BittenApple]

I would love to see Apple iPhone on just more than ATT in the US.

[10th Wonder]

I think it'd just be smarter for them to release it on all carriers like how its in canada and the other countries of the world. Apple knows their making more money selling the iphone to different carriers.

[Kyprioth657]

I certainly hope they make this announcement before the Nexus one comes to verizon. Given the choice, I'd rather have the highly polished iPhone, but I'll take what I can get on my network.

[ThunderSkunk]

Hmmmm... As I recall, it was never stated that this event was dedicated to a tablet, but rather "the mobility space".

[Kyprioth657]

Hmmmm... As I recall, it was never stated that this event was dedicated to a tablet, but rather "the mobility space".

That sounds promising. It's a shame that the source for this potentially pants wettening news is untested. I'm way more excited for a CDMA iPhone than a iSlate.

[MartiNZ]

Judging from how much US iPhoners complain about AT&T, this would seem to fit in with the "best thing Steve has ever done" theme emerging :).

[AnimeFunTv]

Dose this also mean we can 'officially' unlock our iPhone now that the contract with AT&T is over?

[bennifer3000]

Wednesday would be epic if this turns out to be true!
Frack you AT&T, I've had enough of your bollocks! :mad:

[D 5]

Keynote will be longer than normal:D

[DoNoHarm]

Oh no! Say it ain't so, I was so happy with paying AT&T monopoly pricing! :(

[iSkank]

They day iPhone gets with Verizon is the day I buy 100 iPhones for myself. I will then go on a rampage, destroying innocent peoples' blackberries, and replacing it with new iPhones.

[Pigumon]

Please remove the apostrophe from IT'S in your first sentence.

[saving107]

I would consider jumping ships to Verizon, but I don't like the fact that currently Verizon is charging $350 ETF on most/all smart phones (which more likely would include the iphone).

[resonantmedia]

Well, the truth is, nobody thinks this. The only reason we haven't heard MORE about AT&T either GETTING or NOT GETTING a renewal, is because THEY ARE NOT going to get a renewal.

Why do you suppose they've been so focused on "improving customer experience," and throwing money at big, defensive, comparison ad campaigns? They have no hope of securing NEW customers come mid-year, so they can only retain the ones they have.

The fact remains, that in markets where there is not exclusivity contract, Apple's market share of smartphone penetration is up to 40% higher. It's not about being "on Verizon," it's about giving consumers options. And if you've got the best phone on the planet, you want everyone on that planet to have those options.

New model Verizon-capable phone available by mid-year, if not earlier. case closed.

[Analog Kid]

An unlocked GSM iPhone would make me very happy. I've heard plenty of bad things about T-Mobile, but I won't pay AT&T prices.

[Icaras]

If this is the case and the iPhone goes to Verizon won't Apple have to introduce a new CDMA phone Wednesday also ?

Yea i would think so, which makes me highly doubt that they will launching on Verizon as early as wednesday. I can only imagine the negative uproar from early adopters from Verizon when the iphone 4g launches in the Summer. Sorry buddy, can't sign up a new contract so soon!

[cvaldes]

Yea i would think so, which makes me highly doubt that they will launching on Verizon as early as wednesday. I can only imagine the negative uproar from early adopters from Verizon when the iphone 4g launches in the Summer. Sorry buddy, can't sign up a new contract so soon!
It is unlikely that this summer's iPhone would be an LTE model based on the fact that only Sweden/Norway has a functioning consumer LTE network (which technically isn't even 4G).

At the very most, it would be a combo GSM/CDMA model, and that's stretching it, based on chip supplier availability comments.

In 2011, there might be a 4G LTE phone, but even then, it would need to be backward compatible with GSM and possibly CDMA. You wouldn't have LTE coverage everywhere, much as you don't have 3G coverage wherever there is GSM coverage right now.

[retroneo]

T-Mobile HSPA iPhone 3GS ?

Easy to add, just a AWS power amplifier (a sub $1 part), the baseband and iPhone software already supports the rest.

[MacFly123]

I think it'd just be smarter for them to release it on all carriers like how its in canada and the other countries of the world. Apple knows their making more money selling the iphone to different carriers.

They obviously know this. It has just been a matter of time for the contract to run out and for them to look at the feasibility of which networks would be best to get on when Verizon and the others would require new hardware and software to work. The decision they made in the beginning made sense at the time. But now things have changed and so will Apple as soon as they are free to do so, which should be this summer or sooner.

You can actually thank the French government for this. Them mandating Apple to end the exclusivity there is what opened Apple up to see that being on all carriers proves very beneficial for all involved! If that hadn't happened, I'll bet Apple would have waited till either the "world" chip comes out later this year, or till LTE since it is all compatible.

This announcement sure would make a LOT of people happy for a "one more thing" though! :)

[thecoolone1]

I personally haven't had many problems with AT&T from where I'm around. Just because AT&T looses exclusivity, do you think Apple will still offer the iPhone to AT&T and also release "new" updated models for AT&T such as a 4G iPhone or what ever they will call it?

I actually don't want to switch to Verizon but I think Apple would be making a good move if they do so. I rather stick with AT&T if I can still get the newest iPhone's that are released. Also, I wonder if there would be any subsidies.

[saving107]

This announcement sure would make a LOT of people happy for a "one more thing" though! :)

I think a Tablet is more deserving of a 'One More Thing' than just the iPhone going to Verizon or T-Mobile. I could be wrong.

but Steve hasn't done a great 'One More Thing' since the iPhone was announce at MacWorld 2007,

[Macshroomer]

My contract w/ AT&T is up in November, I am on a 3G/16GB, this could be perfect timing. AT&T is not so hot in the mountain town I am in.

[daneoni]

http://www.habitationofjustice.com/wp-content/uploads/simpsons_nelson_haha.jpg

[cvaldes]

I personally haven't had many problems with AT&T from where I'm around. Just because AT&T looses exclusivity, do you think Apple will still offer the iPhone to AT&T and also release "new" updated models for AT&T such as a 4G iPhone or what ever they will call it?

I actually don't want to switch to Verizon but I think Apple would be making a good move if they do so. I rather stick with AT&T if I can still get the newest iPhone's that are released. Also, I wonder if there would be any subsidies.
Again, it is unlikely that Apple would drop AT&T as a carrier. The more likely scenario would be the end of exclusivity for AT&T and other carriers being added to the mix.

It would be technically easier for Apple to add another GSM-based carrier to the mix (i.e., T-Mobile USA) rather than CDMA-based Verizon, although potential subscribers for the latter would have a larger upside.

Carrier subsidies would be likely continue as most American cellular customers expect that sort of thing. While it is rather commonplace in many other countries, the typical American would balk at paying full retail (around $700) for a smartphone like the iPhone. The typical American would rather pay for a cheaper device but sign a two-year contract with higher monthly charges.

[butterfly0fdoom]

I think it'd just be smarter for them to release it on all carriers like how its in canada and the other countries of the world. Apple knows their making more money selling the iphone to different carriers.

The only reason all Canadian carriers have the iPhone now is because the CDMA ones deployed WCDMA towers, something Verizon won't do. It's a very different circumstance from what's going on in the US market.

[robogobo]

AT&T Losing iPhone Exclusivity on Wednesday?

There you go with the question mark again. Conviction, dammit!

[jessica.]

This would be great news. I would switch as soon as possible. No carrier is awesome but I'm tired of AT&T in my area.

[entropys]

They obviously know this. It has just been a matter of time for the contract to run out and for them to look at the feasibility of which networks would be best to get on when Verizon and the others would require new hardware and software to work. The decision they made in the beginning made sense at the time. But now things have changed and so will Apple as soon as they are free to do so, which should be this summer or sooner.

You can actually thank the French government for this. Them mandating Apple to end the exclusivity there is what opened Apple up to see that being on all carriers proves very beneficial for all involved! If that hadn't happened, I'll bet Apple would have waited till either the "world" chip comes out later this year, or till LTE since it is all compatible.

This announcement sure would make a LOT of people happy for a "one more thing" though! :)


Non exclusivity has nothing to do with the french government. Except in France of course where orange did manage an exclusivity deal. There were other countries, such as Australia, that did not have exclusivity and the iphone is getting close to being the most common smartphone. In the UK, Orange also managed an exclusivity deal, but clearly it was much more temporary than in the US.

In the US, the only carrier willing to give the iphone a try was AT&T, and thus AT&T were able to demand a long term exclusivity clause. No harm to them if the iphone didn't work out, a total win for them if it did.

And a verizon phone this week? Unlikely. All those CDMA iphone 3GSs to be produced for only six months until the next iphone comes out? I doubt it. Why would you take out that contract?

.

[trajen]

T-Mobile HSPA iPhone 3GS ?

Easy to add, just a AWS power amplifier (a sub $1 part), the baseband and iPhone software already supports the rest.

If that were the case wouldn't there be a baseband hack to enable frequency compatibility by now?

[andylyon]

Non exclusivity has nothing to do with the french government. Except in France of course where orange did manage an exclusivity deal. There were other countries, such as Australia, that did not have exclusivity and the iphone is getting close to being the most common smartphone. In the UK, Orange also managed an exclusivity deal, but clearly it was much more temporary than in the US.

In the US, the only carrier willing to give the iphone a try was AT&T, and thus AT&T were able to demand a long term exclusivity clause. No harm to them if the iphone didn't work out, a total win for them if it did.

And a verizon phone this week? Unlikely. All those CDMA iphone 3GSs to be produced for only six months until the next iphone comes out? I doubt it. Why would you take out that contract?

.

When did Orange in the UK have exclusivity? They have only just started offering it a couple of months ago! Do you mean O2 Who have had it since the original launch?

AnDy

[spillproof]

I still hope AT&T will subsidize the next gen iPhone. If not, I need to not eat for a few weeks haha

[Trek2100]

I personally haven't had many problems with AT&T from where I'm around. Just because AT&T looses exclusivity, do you think Apple will still offer the iPhone to AT&T and also release "new" updated models for AT&T such as a 4G iPhone or what ever they will call it?

I actually don't want to switch to Verizon but I think Apple would be making a good move if they do so. I rather stick with AT&T if I can still get the newest iPhone's that are released. Also, I wonder if there would be any subsidies.

I totally agree. And, Verizon's prices are a lot higher than AT&T and no yearly rollover on minutes.

[japanime]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/25/atandt-losing-iphone-exclusivity-on-wednesday/)

HotHardware claims (http://hothardware.com/News/Will%2DATT%2DLose%2DTheir%2DiPhone%2DExclusivity%2DOn%2DWednesday/) that AT&T may be losing it's iPhone exclusivity as early as Wednesday...

It's its, not it's. :D

[bbydon]

Hmmmm... As I recall, it was never stated that this event was dedicated to a tablet, but rather "the mobility space".

That has never been stated either.

[ToroidalZeus]

the typical American would balk at paying full retail (around $700) for a smartphone like the iPhone.
RFOL, someone has been buying into too much marketing. The iPhone costs Apple around ~180 dollars to build, If even that. The 700 dollar price tag is pure markup.

The typical american balks at paying 700 dollars for a phone because he knows he is getting ripped off.

[caccamolle]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/25/atandt-losing-iphone-exclusivity-on-wednesday/)

HotHardware claims (http://hothardware.com/News/Will%2DATT%2DLose%2DTheir%2DiPhone%2DExclusivity%2DOn%2DWednesday/) that AT&T may be losing it's iPhone exclusivity as early as Wednesday at Apple's media event:
.......

... While the announcement of a Verizon-compatible iPhone certainly seems possible this year, we're not sure how it would fit in with what is believed to be an event focused on the new Apple Tablet.

Article Link: AT&T Losing iPhone Exclusivity on Wednesday? (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/25/atandt-losing-iphone-exclusivity-on-wednesday/)

What fit ? This is a very credible rumor. I don't expect Apple to have a "special" event merely to announce that AT&T loses its exclusivity. The context on the other hand for announcing additional provider(s) together with the Tablet is perfect: the latter likely will have 3G hence Apple could simply say that now is no longer only via AT&T.

I really hope so !

[Chupa Chupa]

This is a quas-B.S. report. ATT may have lost its exclusivity but, if so, ATT has no idea when Apple will announce it. It won't be on Wed. Here is why:

Apple has said it's traditional iPhone launch period is June/July. We all know Apple is set in its ways on these kind of things. It makes no financial sense to make a Verizon 3GS CDMA phone or a T-Mobile 3GS compatible w/ their 3G data. And Apple is not going release a whole new iPhone which would either absorb the new tablet's excitement, or be overlooked because everyone is focusing on the tablet.

If Apple were to announce "coming to [insert carrier]" in June then that would delay sales of a lot of iPhones from people who would rather wait that contract w/ ATT. Apple's style is to hold announcement until the last minute to spare as much sale damage as possible.

So logically the time for Apple to make this announcement is at the next iPhone hardware event, say May or early June.

What fit ? This is a very credible rumor. I don't expect Apple to have a "special" event merely to announce that AT&T loses its exclusivity. The context on the other hand for announcing additional provider(s) together with the Tablet is perfect: the latter likely will have 3G hence Apple could simply say that now is no longer only via AT&T.

I really hope so !

Except that Apple contract was only for phones, not tablets. Apple has never been obligated to ATT exclusivity in regards to non-phones products. You can read my post above on why its not a good time to announce the end of ATT phone exclusivity.

Hmmmm... As I recall, it was never stated that this event was dedicated to a tablet, but rather "the mobility space".


Rumor becomes reality. You are remembering a pundit's rumor, not anything Apple said. Apple has only said "Come See Our Latest Creation."

Also "mobility space" includes laptops and iPhone OS.

[dernhelm]

This is a quas-B.S. report. ATT may have lost its exclusivity but, if so, ATT has no idea when Apple will announce it. It won't be on Wed. Here is why:

Apple has said it's traditional iPhone launch period is June/July. We all know Apple is set in its ways on these kind of things. It makes no financial sense to make a Verizon 3GS CDMA phone or a T-Mobile 3GS compatible w/ their 3G data. And Apple is not going release a whole new iPhone which would either absorb the new tablet's excitement, or be overlooked because everyone is focusing on the tablet.

If Apple were to announce "coming to [insert carrier]" in June then that would delay sales of a lot of iPhones from people who would rather wait that contract w/ ATT. Apple's style is to hold announcement until the last minute to spare as much sale damage as possible.

So logically the time for Apple to make this announcement is at the next iPhone hardware event, say May or early June.

Logically, the best time to announce it would be the earliest time before which Apple can actually release said phone. That way, all involved companies have the best opportunity to make the most money.

If CDMA is the only difference between the phones, I don't think Apple would view it as a hardware upgrade or "new release" and would quite possible release it "out of band".

[rdowns]

Jumped the shark:

PowerBook G5
It's snappier
iPhone coming to Verizon

[harry*333]

we're not sure how it would fit in with what is believed to be an event focused on the new Apple Tablet

well if the tablet turns out to have 3g coverage from verizon then it would seem like a sure thing for the iphone to move to verizon so why not do it at the same event

[Takeo]

The only reason all Canadian carriers have the iPhone now is because the CDMA ones deployed WCDMA towers, something Verizon won't do. It's a very different circumstance from what's going on in the US market.

I'm a Canadian. There is no CDMA iPhone in Canada and not all carriers have the iPhone in Canada. Three carriers have the 3G iPhone (Bell, Telus, Rogers)

[mccldwll]

Except that Apple contract was only for phones, not tablets. Apple has never been obligated to ATT exclusivity in regards to non-phones products. You can read my post above on why its not a good time to announce the end of ATT phone exclusivity.


Uh.............no. It's never been established that only covers iPhones. In fact, it likely would cover anything at all similar in function and technology, or anything the contracting parties agreed to. This is not Mickey Mouse stuff. But it's not a good idea to announce loss of exclusivity unless would be available on another carrier immediately.

[Sweetfeld28]

If this is the case and the iPhone goes to Verizon won't Apple have to introduce a new CDMA phone Wednesday also ?

No, Apple would just have to make a phone that has a combo CDMA/GSM chip in it. Verizon already uses phones like this, the BlackBerry World Phone is one of them. I don't exactly know what model of BlackBerry it is, but a coworker of mine has one.

[Lesser Evets]

... we're not sure how it would fit in with what is believed to be an event focused on the new Apple Tablet.

I'm not sure how that sentence fit into this rumor.

[GroundLoop]

RFOL, someone has been buying into too much marketing. The iPhone costs Apple around ~180 dollars to build, If even that. The 700 dollar price tag is pure markup.

The typical american balks at paying 700 dollars for a phone because he knows he is getting ripped off.

There is a lot more to the cost of an iPhone than just parts like:

-engineering (and support staff)
-fabrication subcontracts (and the contractor's profits)
-marketing (paying for elaborate keynote speeches, commercials, etc)
-training the sales staff
-training the technical support staff
-supporting free apps for the App Store (iPhone and iPod Touch do this)
-Apple profit

All of those costs are spread across the projected sales of the product. That is what determines the final wholesale price.

I am not saying that Apple adds a large margin (~45%), but it is not the 300-400% that you are describing.

Hickman

[Chupa Chupa]

Logically, the best time to announce it would be the earliest time before which Apple can actually release said phone. That way, all involved companies have the best opportunity to make the most money.

If CDMA is the only difference between the phones, I don't think Apple would view it as a hardware upgrade or "new release" and would quite possible release it "out of band".

It's not that slight of a difference. Apple can't just shove a CDMA chip in the iPhone and start selling. It has to go to the FCC for testing -- they do see it as a different model. That cost money, money not worth spending on a phone that will be superseded in a few months anyway. It's far more economical to drop a hybrid CDMA/GSM chip into whatever iPhone 2010 will be called. One phone for multiple carriers. That's more Apple's M.O.

Uh.............no. It's never been established that only covers iPhones. In fact, it likely would cover anything at all similar in function and technology, or anything the contracting parties agreed to. This is not Mickey Mouse stuff. But it's not a good idea to announce loss of exclusivity unless would be available on another carrier immediately.

As far as that goes it's never been concretely "established" that it covers more than phones since the terms have never been made public. However multiple people familiar with the industry norms have said in the past few years that its limited to phones. I do agree with you though that it "would cover...anything the contracting parties agreed to.":rolleyes: Let me guess, you are either pre-law or a 1L.

[bobr1952]

I am very happy with AT&T--in fact I would not have bought my iPhone if it were not on AT&T since I don't want to change carriers. But I think it it good for everyone, consumers and Apple, to have the iPhone on more than one carrier in the US.

[CaryMacGuy]

There was a time when people chose their wireless carrier based on other factors other than the handset it carries exclusively. That was mostly because by today's standards, all the devices sucked. However, now when phone makers are making really good smartphone devices, they lock them on a particular carrier. I really hope that the iPhone (along with the other exclusive phones) get to all carriers. Let the factors that truly matter dictate what carrier to use.

[mrgreen4242]

As much as I really like my Pre, I would definitely consider an iPhone 3GS on Sprint. Regardless of what comes this week, it will certainly be interesting to see who had the right rumors and what stuff was completely missed by the rumor mill!

[Xenious]

I wish people here would get it. It is good when phones support the technology standards that the rest of the western world uses. We want things to be on AT&T and T-Mobile. We don't want things to be on Verizon and Sprint. We want Verizon and sprint to totally re-do their networks so finally the US can have one standard which is THE SAME as the UK, Europe and Australia. This is a reason (not the reason) why we're backwater. Change and unify the standards and things improve for the customer.

lol No I'm not pro AT&T and I'm just anti CDMA :)

[iMacoo7]

This is a quas-B.S. report. ATT may have lost its exclusivity but, if so, ATT has no idea when Apple will announce it. It won't be on Wed. Here is why:

Apple has said it's traditional iPhone launch period is June/July. We all know Apple is set in its ways on these kind of things. It makes no financial sense to make a Verizon 3GS CDMA phone or a T-Mobile 3GS compatible w/ their 3G data. And Apple is not going release a whole new iPhone which would either absorb the new tablet's excitement, or be overlooked because everyone is focusing on the tablet.

If Apple were to announce "coming to [insert carrier]" in June then that would delay sales of a lot of iPhones from people who would rather wait that contract w/ ATT. Apple's style is to hold announcement until the last minute to spare as much sale damage as possible.

So logically the time for Apple to make this announcement is at the next iPhone hardware event, say May or early June.

One point I have to disagree with you...
3GS came out before the *June/July* theory...

[rdowns]

I wish people here would get it. It is good when phones support the technology standards that the rest of the western world uses. We want things to be on AT&T and T-Mobile. We don't want things to be on Verizon and Sprint. We want Verizon and sprint to totally re-do their networks so finally the US can have one standard which is THE SAME as the UK, Europe and Australia. This is a reason (not the reason) why we're backwater. Change and unify the standards and things improve for the customer.

lol No I'm not pro AT&T and I'm just anti CDMA :)


Really? Maybe on a tech forum but 98% of all mobile phone users probably never leave the US with their phone. Most probably never leave their state. The vast majority of users couldn't care less about CDMA or GSM.

[SwiftLives]

I don't doubt for a minute that the tablet will have a data plan on both Verizon & AT&T's networks. Apple would gain very little with tablet exclusivity.

With the R&D involved (and no, it's not simply switching out a chip.), I'm not sure if it would be profitable for Apple to develop a specific phone with a different chip that uses dying technology in just one country.

Secondly, Apple's latest marketing push with the phone has clearly stated that you can use voice and data simultaneously - something which would not be available on Verizon's network. I somehow doubt that Apple would be unaware or ignorant of their own product roadmap.

Verizon (and other carriers) will get the phone in the US. I don't doubt that, either. I just don't see it happening before they upgrade their network away from CDMA.

[iMacoo7]

No, Apple would just have to make a phone that has a combo CDMA/GSM chip in it. Verizon already uses phones like this, the BlackBerry World Phone is one of them. I don't exactly know what model of BlackBerry it is, but a coworker of mine has one.

That would be the Blackberry bold...
To comment on the iPhone possibly moving to other carriers.
I joined the Cingular *crew* back in 2002 and kept the same cell provider (Meaning thru the changes as well to ATT) throughout the years and seeing the customer support go from A+++ star status to a very week and grim "I really do not want to deal with a person grumpier than I at the moment" Type of feeling when having to call them about a problem. I jumped ship after going to spend some time with family in a FULLY SATURATED ATT area. I was surfing on the iphone (And no there was not any roaming or anything else, clearly showed I was on ATT network) for roughly 2 hours a day the time I went to see my family.
Upon returning to my home and receiving the bill. I was triple charged and there were charges from my phone to other countries to say the least.
After calling and having them run tests, come to find out the charges were mistakenly put on my bill ( I have had this happen to me too many times over by them). I have had this happen to where I only paid what I know I owed and them suspending my services.....
I was totally fed up and am with TMOB. Allot friendlier.


We will see how the media event holds honor to either the people, myths or satisfaction of doing the right thing for the masses and giving choices amongst us....



Apple has nearly given us users everything we asked for when it came to the iPhone (Slowly but surely they have).
Apple even made snide remarks and comedian antics when discussing MMS on the iphone and the ATT network....
Again,
Only time will tell....

[crackbookpro]

I do think the iPhone is coming to Verizon in 2010 - Not now though...

The Verizon iPhone will most likely have the dual GSM/CDMA technology, but it won't happen now during the big release of the Tablet.

I still think the Apple 3G Tablet will be the first to have Verizon hardware, and their iPhone will be released in early summer.

Only assumptions...
Tablet - debuts early Spring (gets mentioned on Wednesday)
Verizon iPhone - debuts early Summer (gets mentioned in the Spring of 2010)

One thing I question is - the bargaining agreements with the Apple App Store vs Vcast. That will be an interesting war that may slow up the release of the Verizon iPhone.

[agkm800]

Not true.

Would you buy Verizon iPhone now with a 2-year contract? How would you feel when the 4G model comes out in 6 months?

If Apple is launching Verizon iPhone in June, they are not announcing it before June.

[Ted13]

I call BS. If you read the article it is full of the usual (and untrue as anyone who's used it on a decent European network knows) anti iPhone claptrap. Sounds like someone at AT&T (with no insider knowledge) getting ready for the inevitable.

[bergmef]

I don't doubt for a minute that the tablet will have a data plan on both Verizon & AT&T's networks. Apple would gain very little with tablet exclusivity.

With the R&D involved (and no, it's not simply switching out a chip.), I'm not sure if it would be profitable for Apple to develop a specific phone with a different chip that uses dying technology in just one country.

Secondly, Apple's latest marketing push with the phone has clearly stated that you can use voice and data simultaneously - something which would not be available on Verizon's network. I somehow doubt that Apple would be unaware or ignorant of their own product roadmap.

Verizon (and other carriers) will get the phone in the US. I don't doubt that, either. I just don't see it happening before they upgrade their network away from CDMA.

I think you will have a long wait. CDMA works too well to scrap. You'll see CDMA with data on LTE in the future but it won't go away (not any time soon). Too many advantages in phone service for that.

[pcguru83]

Wouldn't a CDMA iPhone have to get FCC approval? If so, then if there was a Verizon phone, we'd have heard of the FCC filings. Face it, Verizon isn't getting the iPhone anytime soon.
That's actually exactly why I think this rumor might have legs--FCC filings. What did Apple when the iPhone was first released? They announced in January with a shipping date in June. I could see that being the case once more--announce the CDMA iPhone in January, phone ships in June/July.

[carmenodie]

Yeah there is a rumor about me that says all the Victoria Secrete models will visit my bedroom tonight and won't leave until the break of dawn.
OK!

[kdarling]

It's not that slight of a difference. Apple can't just shove a CDMA chip in the iPhone and start selling. It has to go to the FCC for testing -- they do see it as a different model. That cost money, money not worth spending on a phone that will be superseded in a few months anyway.

The FCC itself doesn't do any testing. You pay a third party to do that, and then submit the tests when you know the device will pass. Sometimes the FCC will come back and ask for clarification. Not very expensive in the overall scheme of things, though.

It's far more economical to drop a hybrid CDMA/GSM chip into whatever iPhone 2010 will be called. One phone for multiple carriers. That's more Apple's M.O.

I think you're right that a dual mode would make sense if Apple decides to add CDMA. However, they might stop Verizon from doing what they do for all their other such phones: unlocking the GSM side upon request.

Would you buy Verizon iPhone now with a 2-year contract? How would you feel when the 4G model comes out in 6 months?

If Apple is launching Verizon iPhone in June, they are not announcing it before June.

Perhaps. Yet Apple preannounced the first iPhone by six months in order to let people have time to get out of their contracts. That no doubt stopped lots of other ATT smartphone sales during the waiting period.

[miles01110]

The FCC itself doesn't do any testing. You pay a third party to do that, and then submit the tests when you know the device will pass. Sometimes the FCC will come back and ask for clarification. Not very expensive in the overall scheme of things, though.


NIST does a lot of this.

[Slip Jigs]

I am very happy with AT&T--in fact I would not have bought my iPhone if it were not on AT&T since I don't want to change carriers. But I think it it good for everyone, consumers and Apple, to have the iPhone on more than one carrier in the US.

Absolutely. If and when this announcement is made, expect to see a lot of sweet deals from ATT to re-up people into another two year contract. It's possible that the 4G phone will be the one that is rolled out to Verizon, and many who got the 3GS on ATT won't normally be qualified for the upgrade yet. But ATT may just open that up to anyone and everyone who has an iPhone with them. It would retain a lot of people who can't switch to Verizon yet, but will give them a chance to get the new phone!

[agkm800]

Perhaps. Yet Apple preannounced the first iPhone by six months in order to let people have time to get out of their contracts. That no doubt stopped lots of other ATT smartphone sales during the waiting period.

That was when nobody knew how good or bad Apple's first phone would be. It is a totally different game now.

[ericinboston]

I would laugh so hard if the iPhone does go to Verizon, they have to use the EDGE network with it for a year like us on AT&T had to

So? The point is that Verizon has far far better coverage than ATT...at least on the entire East Coast of the USA. Not much point in getting anything labeled as a "phone" (cell phone, smart phone, iPhone) if I can't make phone calls. :) Before my iPhone I was on Verizon for 5+ years...not a single dropped call...not 1. No exaggeration. Also, I always had enough signal to make or receive calls. Always. Again, no exaggeration. I've been on ATT since Sep '09 and I would say my dropped call percentage is 15-25% and my ability to make or receive calls is 75%. I travel daily within 30 miles of my home...so plenty of opportunity for my phone device to reach other towers.

I know a great deal of friends and relatives that are waiting to see the iPhone on Verizon...not because they can download 100MB/day while at the beach, but because it's a killer phone on a fantastic network that also provides a top-notch web surfing experience. Trust me...sales will be off the charts in the East Coast once Verizon gets the iPhone. Depending on my cancellation fee, Verizon sales promotions, and new iPhone model availability I may switch to Verizon before my ATT contract runs out.

-Eric

[agkm800]

Seriously, is MR really this naive?

[stewart715]

I have a good friend who is a Sr. Executive at Verizon headquarters in New Jersey who states that there has been rumor talk around the office (just like around here) that the tablet is to be released on their network end of January and iPhone end of June.

She also stated that they've abruptly began to expedite the expansion of the 4G LTE network last week, and there is no indication as to why.

That's all I heard...

[Shasterball]

Please don't tease me...

[klrobinson999]

they need to get the iPhone on all 4 major carriers. This would help to spread out the demands placed on the networks. All have 3G or its equivalent in the pipeline.

[ryanasimov]

...just wait until you hear the complaints about a CDMA iPhone. Take 2 identical phones (one GSM and one CDMA) and the GSM phone will have better battery life. That's the main reason I believe the iPhone will NEVER come to Verizon until they make the switch to LTE. A CDMA iPhone would never pass Apple's test for a good consumer experience.

[crackbookpro]

Not true.

Would you buy Verizon iPhone now with a 2-year contract? How would you feel when the 4G model comes out in 6 months?

If Apple is launching Verizon iPhone in June, they are not announcing it before June.

I disagree for the mere fact that the Verizon iPhone is a PR movement, not just an upgrade. This is such big news it can affect stock/shares within both companies. I believe Verizon will announce it before the actual release date, so people will be begging for it before its release. And, ultimately allowing people to think before starting a new contract on another carrier or extending their contract with iPhone from AT&T. Plus, this pleases ol' shareholders & brings in new ones.

A Verizon iPhone is millions & millions of new customers. This is huge for both Apple & Verizon!!! I would not doubt that Verizon wants set-up a PR campaign before its release. ;)

[stewart715]

...just wait until you hear the complaints about a CDMA iPhone. Take 2 identical phones (one GSM and one CDMA) and the GSM phone will have better battery life. That's the main reason I believe the iPhone will NEVER come to Verizon until they make the switch to LTE. A CDMA iPhone would never pass Apple's test for a good consumer experience.

Yes, they will decline a multi-million dollar contract because of a 30 minute decrease in battery life. You are definitely right.

[bergmef]

It would slow down a few people on Verizon that might have tried a 'droid variant.

[stewart715]

I disagree for the mere fact that the Verizon iPhone is a PR movement, not just an upgrade. I believe Verizon will announce it before the actual release date, so people will be begging for it before its release. And, ultimately allowing people to think before starting a new contract on another carrier or extending their contract with iPhone from AT&T.

A Verizon iPhone is millions & millions of new customers. This is huge for both Apple & Verizon!!! I would not doubt that Verizon wants set-up a PR campaign before its release. ;)

And another reason it would be announced is because all who's contract is ending with AT&T from now until June would be inclined to move to Verizon.

[kdarling]

NIST does a lot of this.

Apple seems to like using CETECOM (http://www.cetecomusa.com/)as their iPhone tester.

What's interesting about CETECOM is that they're a TCB (http://www.cetecomusa.com/emc/fcc-ic-ce.aspx). They can issue approvals on behalf of the FCC. Secrecy is one reason companies use TCB authorities.

Assuming that TCBs can also approve cell phones (and I'm not clear on that), Apple could in theory hire CETECOM to get the FCC ceritifcation and have them keep it secret right up to the day before sales start.

[bergmef]

...just wait until you hear the complaints about a CDMA iPhone. Take 2 identical phones (one GSM and one CDMA) and the GSM phone will have better battery life. That's the main reason I believe the iPhone will NEVER come to Verizon until they make the switch to LTE. A CDMA iPhone would never pass Apple's test for a good consumer experience.

This I never knew. I always thought CDMA had better battery life since it's not transmitting when it's not being used.

[TraceyS/FL]

A Verizon announcement would help me decide Pre or MiFi.....

I"m out of contract with V :D

[freeny]

Only one thing is for certain...
If this is true, there will now be 2 service providers iPhone users will be bitching about ;)

[ssanders79]

I do not care about exclusivity. I just care about future iPhone models being avaliable on the AT&T network. I am not interested in switching networks to upgrade to a future iPhone model. That being said the install base of iPhones on the AT&T network make is seem far fetched that if/when the exclusive contract ends new models will not be avaliable on the AT&T network.

[sishaw]

That's actually exactly why I think this rumor might have legs--FCC filings. What did Apple when the iPhone was first released? They announced in January with a shipping date in June. I could see that being the case once more--announce the CDMA iPhone in January, phone ships in June/July.

Exactly! I was going to make this same point. If Apple has to get FCC approval for the CDMA radio, its filings will become public so they'll want to make the big announcement first.

[TraceyS/FL]

I do not care about exclusivity. I just care about future iPhone models being avaliable on the AT&T network. I am not interested in switching networks to upgrade to a future iPhone model. That being said the install base of iPhones on the AT&T network make is seem far fetched that if/when the exclusive contract ends new models will not be avaliable on the AT&T network.

I don't understand why some people thing (and i'm not picking on you, really) that the iPhone going to a 2nd carrier means AT&T won't have it any longer.

Has this happened in any other country? Nope.

It just means that you get a choice of carriers.....

[ToroidalZeus]

-engineering (and support staff)
-fabrication subcontracts (and the contractor's profits)
-marketing (paying for elaborate keynote speeches, commercials, etc)
-training the sales staff
-training the technical support staff
-supporting free apps for the App Store (iPhone and iPod Touch do this)
-Apple profit
- free apps which get supported by paid apps. All that could be said of the ipod shuffle which sells for 60 dollars and obviously Apple isn't going broke making that. Nor is Samsung or LG who offer 'free' phones. The iPhone markup is ridiculous, this is a fact.

[guzhogi]

if there is a new iPhone for vzn, wouldn't it have to undergo an FCC review prior to sale? If so Apple may be doing the same thing it did with the original - announce it now themselves so it isn't outed by the FCC later.

I agree. That's how they did it w/ the first iPhone. And knowing Apple's secretive nature, Apple might've had the FCC keep mum about it until after the official announcement.

[rwilliams]

Here's a question for you gurus:

I know that switching from one GSM carrier to another can be done by switching the SIM cards. How would one switch from one CDMA carrier to another? I'm with Sprint, and would snatch up a Verizon iPhone in a minute if I knew I could somehow put it on Sprint's network.

[Rot'nApple]

Nobody knows anything.

Just the way Apple likes it! :D

So they can control the message and create the hype!... :cool:

I read this same post on AppleInsider where they said ""Inside of AT&T, we are hearing that the iPhone is causing more trouble than ever before," the report said. "On some level, having the iPhone is hurting AT&T's image. Because they are the only company to carry it, and it's such a data hog, it's largely to blame for AT&T's network troubles. We don't remember hearing about AT&T's 'horrible network' before the iPhone--do you?""

Well AT&T's network may have been just as horrible before iPhone, but not vociferously communicated because AT&T never came upon a group that IS the "Mac Community", where we are used to CEO's demanding perfection and products that "just work"... anyway, I digress... If the iPhone is such a data hog, why do we not hear from other users of other phones inability to work on AT&T's network? Surely since the intro of the iPhone, the competition has surely released smart phones that AT&T could have sold. Not in great numbers, but surely put out other smart phones that needed the AT&T network for them to work and yet we don't hear complaints from them saying, because of the AT&T and iPhone exclusivity deal, my HTC Android OS phone doesn't deliver as promised?

I'm curious to why nothing similar along those lines is ever reported? Or did I just miss them?

[Maserati7200]

Why does this have so many negatives? Competition is a good thing. Even if you stay with AT&T, you will have less iPhone users straining the network, and probably lower priced contracts because AT&T isn't the only iPhone carrier.

[LagunaSol]

ATT is smart: never put all your eggs in one basket.

Yeah, I'm sure the iPhone/AT&T breakup is AT&T's idea. :rolleyes:

"No, really guys, I broke up with her!"

Are you kidding? AT&T has the worst network, Verizon has the best without doubt. You are truly a Mac snob.

Fanboy throws fanboy card. News at 11.

My Droid and my friends iPhone in a great ATT 3G area. And this was off peak time. Almost all iPhone users I know get around this speed or up to 1.8Mbps.

Apparently all the iPhone users you know happen to live in a bad AT&T area while you and your buddies live in good Verizon areas.

The 3rd party tests I've seen show AT&T's 3G speed to be significantly faster than Verizon's on average across many metro markets.

Disclaimer: I think all wireless carriers suck - I dislike both AT&T and Verizon.

[distortedloop]

The iPhone uses a lot more data than the Droid, Nextus One or anything else Verizon has right now.

I disagree with you on two points, one of which is a matter of fact, the other a matter of opinion.

First, Verizon does not have the Nexus One. It is a GSM phone, and so only works on AT&T/T-Mobile type networks, not on Verizon's CDMA service. This is fact.

The second is the assertion that iPhone uses more data than the Droid/Nexus One. Unless you have either one of them, how can you make that statement? If you have both, your conclusions would likely be different.

I am currently testing a Nexus One vs my iPhone 3G[s] and let me tell you, in my opinion, the Nexus One will be much more of data hog than the iPhone. This thing is so tied into Google's online services that it's constantly, I mean CONSTANTLY, talking to the network. Throw in that it actually multi-tasks, unhacked, right out of the box, and you have multiple apps hitting the network for data all the time the phone is on. The voice services are everywhere in the phone, and actually work fairly well, which means everytime you do a search, or dictate an SMS/email, there's data back and forth...iPhones don't do any of this.

Android 2.1+ products, which will include Verizon's Droid soon enough, are almost certainly going to be at least as data hungry as the iPhone, and given the geek nature of the phones, the type of person buying them is more likely to be a data hog type person than the typical iPhone user outside of the folks who read this type of forum.

Are you kidding? AT&T has the worst network, Verizon has the best without doubt. You are truly a Mac snob. I love Mac as well but you have to be realistic, the only thing that is keeping AT&T competitive is the iphone. That would be the best thing for iphone is to pair up with Verizon.

Where I live AT&T has the best coverage and fastest 3G speeds.
That's all that matters to me

Micahelingleo - you don't get it. The "best" network is the one that meets your needs and expectations, just like Applejuiced points out. AT&T works just as well for me in Los Angeles and the places I visit routinely as Verizon or Sprint ever did. I have no complaints. It's really a location/location/location issue.

As far as the WORST network. T-Mobile, without a doubt, in my areas. Absolutely horrible coverage and signal penetration. I can't even get a signal in 90% of my house on my Nexus One. I routinely drop service in the north parts of the San Fernando Valley. I had dinner at Warner Center (a major business/retail/dining area in Los Angeles) on Saturday, and I couldn't get more than EDGE data inside the restaurant. My iPhone, on the other hand, had 5 bars and full 3G. I think the Nexus One is currently a much better OS and piece of hardware than currently available iPhones/iPhone-OS, but T-Mobile service is likely to make me send the phone back before my testing period is over. :-(

Please remove the apostrophe from IT'S in your first sentence.

Go away Grammar Gestapo agent. No one appreciates posts like yours. Really, no one. It adds nothing to the conversation. If you feel the overwhelming need to correct someone's spelling and grammar, send them a private message.

[kdarling]

...just wait until you hear the complaints about a CDMA iPhone. Take 2 identical phones (one GSM and one CDMA) and the GSM phone will have better battery life.

Not if we compare 3G phones, in which case the GSM model should be worse while using 3G.

On both CDMA2000 (Verizon) and GSM (ATT) networks, 3G is accomplished via a CDMA radio.... aka EVDO for CDMA2000 and WCDMA for GSM.

The GSM WCDMA radio requires a much higher clock rate (that allows the greater bandwidth for simultaneous voice+data), and at least in the USA, must often transmit at a higher power because of ATT's less dense tower layout.

That's the main reason I believe the iPhone will NEVER come to Verizon until they make the switch to LTE.

LTE would be even worse about battery, which is why it's mostly intended for larger and/or line-powered devices.

[agkm800]

Why does this have so many negatives? Competition is a good thing. Even if you stay with AT&T, you will have less iPhone users straining the network, and probably lower priced contracts because AT&T isn't the only iPhone carrier.

I believe nobody is against competition. People are against dumb rumors, though.

[mccldwll]

As far as that goes it's never been concretely "established" that it covers more than phones since the terms have never been made public. However multiple people familiar with the industry norms have said in the past few years that its limited to phones. I do agree with you though that it "would cover...anything the contracting parties agreed to.":rolleyes: Let me guess, you are either pre-law or a 1L.


That's right. Nothing established. But it's only the macrumors kids who have been saying that "only covers iPhone, so let's give it another name." T would want it to cover everything related, and aapl would want to limit it. The truth will be somewhere in the middle. And "contracting parties" language used because that's really at the heart of this. And not pre or 1. Very post-law.

[trip1ex]

It would next to nothing to also support TMobile.

Verizon requires a new sku.

[LagunaSol]

I do think the iPhone is coming to Verizon in 2010 - Not now though...

The Verizon iPhone will most likely have the dual GSM/CDMA technology, but it won't happen now during the big release of the Tablet.

Apple would be wise to announce a Verizon iPhone (if one is planned to exist) as early as possible to keep people from renewing 2-year contracts with other carriers with competing smartphones in the interim. No Verizon iPhone until June? Fine. But announce it now.

Why does this have so many negatives? Competition is a good thing. Even if you stay with AT&T, you will have less iPhone users straining the network, and probably lower priced contracts because AT&T isn't the only iPhone carrier.

More iPhone sales = better for my AAPL. I say get this thing on as many carriers as possible, stat!

I am currently testing a Nexus One vs my iPhone 3G[s] and let me tell you, in my opinion, the Nexus One will be much more of data hog than the iPhone.

Proof positive the Nexus One is not selling well: T-Mobile's wimpy network hasn't completely imploded. (Disclaimer: I've had T-Mobile before, and as a company I prefer them to other carriers I've had, but I didn't have a smartphone at that time).

Verizon fanboys seem to be just as "enthusiastic" as the Apple fanboys they gripe about. Things that make you go "Hmmm..."

[stewart715]

Well at least we're 99% positive that there are no phones produced yet right now (which I don't think anyone expected). Normally a month before any major Verizon phone release, SKU's in their system show up and are almost always leaked (i.e. BlackBerry Storm, BlackBerry Tour, Motorola Droid). There has been no indication of any new SKU's whatsoever so any information would be merely contractual based.

[zachplaysguitar]

Would the new qualcomm (I think) chip that supports both CDMA and GSM fit inside the current iPhone without a redesign? Or more specifically, if a newer model contains the hybrid chip, will it be thicker/larger?

If this is not the case, I don't see why it would be so hard to produce a phone that can work on ANY network. Other companies already do it...

[GroundLoop]

- free apps which get supported by paid apps. All that could be said of the ipod shuffle which sells for 60 dollars and obviously Apple isn't going broke making that. Nor is Samsung or LG who offer 'free' phones. The iPhone markup is ridiculous, this is a fact.

Think of it this way...Apple acts totally opposite of the video game industry...

Video game consoles are sold with minimal to negative profit, and the software is sold with incredible mark-ups (~50% - similar to Apple's margins). And the console makers make their money from licensing fees (App Developer membership fees).

Apple sells the console (ie phone) for large margins, and get next to no profits from the sales of software. The 30% cut that apple gets is to support the data centers, staff, bandwidth, upgrades, financial system to pay out sales to the developers, maintaining the iTunes Store, etc.

Does anyone get all up in arms that Modern Warfare costs $60 when the CD itself costs only $0.10 to press? ;)

Hickman

[doctor-don]

lose?

loose - as in unleash:D

[sishaw]

Go away Grammar Gestapo agent. No one appreciates posts like yours. Really, no one. It adds nothing to the conversation. If you feel the overwhelming need to correct someone's spelling and grammar, send them a private message.

Actually, I get frustrated by the poor grammar here (its or it's, there or their--a lot of people must have been playing video games instead of studying) as it makes some posts all but incomprehensible. I applaud efforts to improve things. So, someone does appreciate it!

[Digital Dude]

The upcoming event seems about right in that Apple is moving further away from mainstream computers, and is opting to produce more handheld devices. They have all but abandoned the desktop display more than 3-years ago, and they have fostered in OpenGL and GPU's about as enthusiastically as a root canal.

[ghostface147]

I totally agree. And, Verizon's prices are a lot higher than AT&T and no yearly rollover on minutes.

How are they a lot higher? I only see visual voicemail being $2.99 while AT&T's is free. Is 3 dollars really considered a lot higher? If you are talking about the ETF fee, you should have mentioned the ETF being a part of your equation. I don't have a need for rollover minutes since everything is unlimited, which makes that a non-factor for me.

[distortedloop]

Proof positive the Nexus One is not selling well: T-Mobile's wimpy network hasn't completely imploded. (Disclaimer: I've had T-Mobile before, and as a company I prefer them to other carriers I've had, but I didn't have a smartphone at that time).

Verizon fanboys seem to be just as "enthusiastic" as the Apple fanboys they gripe about. Things that make you go "Hmmm..."

You're correct about the Verizon fanboys! The difference between Verizon fanboys and Apple fanboys is that the Verizon types will not acknowledge that there are a significant amount of people who hate Verizon and can't wait to get off their network because of the draconian lock down of services and bizarre billing practices. I've had all the services now (Sprint, Nextel, AT&T, Cingular, Verizon, and finally T-Mobile); they all have issues of one kind or the other, it just depends on what's important to you and how the service works where you are at.

As for the Nexus One not selling well, we're getting off on a big tanget discussing that, but I don't think anyone ever claimed it was selling well to begin with. More interesting to me is that it appears Google isn't trying to sell the thing at all.

Think about it, it's had virtually zero publicity. There are no advertisements for the thing on television, or radio. There are no print ads for it in magazines. Google's home page had a small link to the Nexus One for about 4 days, then it disappeared. The only place you'll see ads for it are small banner ads on some of the geek-blogs and Google's own finance site. T-Mobile doesn't have them in stores, or even have posters for them in T-Mobile displays.

Does any of that really sound like a device that Google's trying to sell? I don't think so. In my opinion Google never intended this to be an iPhone competitor on a number-of-units-sold basis. The Nexus One is a "reference" device Google designed to show off the power of the latest build of Android on a device that exceeds current iPhones, and probably rivals the next generation of iPhone hardware (note I said probably and rivals, not will and exceeds). The Nexus One is also probably a small test for Google to see what dipping its toe into the direct-to-consumer product fulfillment business would entail. Better to start off small and in "beta" on something like that. Beta products and services are what Google does best after all, right? ;-)

The Nexus One is an exciting piece of hardware and Android 2.1 is a solid OS with some nice features that Apple's refused to give us. I'm not some stupid Google fanboy, and I'm more than likely to send this Nexus One back to Google after a couple of weeks, but even as an Apple fanboy, I have to acknowledge that Google's got a very nice product for those who don't want to have an iPhone for whatever reason.

[craigatkinson]

I agree. Apple would be wise to announce a Verizon iPhone early for several reasons. For one, Apple likes to be the one who reveals their secrets. Once apple gets Verizon involved, it will no longer be able to keep the iPhone a secret. So they might as well volunteer the information right now. Also, there are smartphones like the Palm Pre and the Nexus One that Verizon customers may be tempted to snag up if they are unaware of an iPhone in the pipeline. Or they may be thinking of switching to AT&T just so they can have an iPhone. An early announcement would encourage those who are due for an upgrade to wait a few months for a Verizon iPhone.

Apple would be wise to announce a Verizon iPhone (if one is planned to exist) as early as possible to keep people from renewing 2-year contracts with other carriers with competing smartphones in the interim. No Verizon iPhone until June? Fine. But announce it now.



More iPhone sales = better for my AAPL. I say get this thing on as many carriers as possible, stat!



Proof positive the Nexus One is not selling well: T-Mobile's wimpy network hasn't completely imploded. (Disclaimer: I've had T-Mobile before, and as a company I prefer them to other carriers I've had, but I didn't have a smartphone at that time).

Verizon fanboys seem to be just as "enthusiastic" as the Apple fanboys they gripe about. Things that make you go "Hmmm..."

[Ammo]

Why does this have so many negatives? Competition is a good thing. Even if you stay with AT&T, you will have less iPhone users straining the network, and probably lower priced contracts because AT&T isn't the only iPhone carrier.

THANK YOU.

It's like people want to see the iPhone stay exclusively on at&t and want Verizon users to suffer. I don't understand it.

Guess what at&t Fan? It makes perfect financial sense for Apple to make a Verizon iPhone. There are literally MILLIONS like me out there who will not leave the Verizon network but desperately want an iPhone.

I hope it happens. I'll camp out for it.

[hagjohn]

Just because the exclusivity is probably going to end, doesn't mean every iPhone customer is leaving AT&T. AT&T network here is fine and everyone I know has AT&T as a carrier (only a few have iPhones).

[PeterQVenkman]

Bring it on. My "new every two" credit kicks in Feb 2.

[distortedloop]

Actually, I get frustrated by the poor grammar here (its or it's, there or their--a lot of people must have been playing video games instead of studying) as it makes some posts all but incomprehensible. I applaud efforts to improve things. So, someone does appreciate it!

It's rude and adds nothing to the conversation that we're trying to follow. If you're out to dinner with friends and one of them uses poor grammar, do you correct their grammar in front of everyone else, if at all? If you're in a public discussion like a town-hall meeting, do you correct someone's bad grammar? I doubt it.

Why do you think it's appropriate here? If it's something that you feel just has to be done, send the person an IM. Doing it in public is rude and comes off as self-serving. I'm here for Apple fanboy talk, not English lessons from one stranger to another.

Most of us are in a hurry when we post. We make typos and don't proof-read our posts. It's not a big deal for most, in my opinion. I imagine Twitter must drive you absolutely nuts, huh? ;-)

loose - as in unleash:D

/sigh/ Another one. LOL.

[stewart715]

THANK YOU.

It's like people want to see the iPhone stay exclusively on at&t and want Verizon users to suffer. I don't understand it.

Guess what at&t Fan? It makes perfect financial sense for Apple to make a Verizon iPhone. There are literally MILLIONS like me out there who will not leave the Verizon network but desperately want an iPhone.

I hope it happens. I'll camp out for it.

You're right. It's been determined it will cost 3.5% of their market cap ($5 billion) to make a network as reliable, and widespread as Verizon. Apple is not stupid. They are very well aware of the fact that a Verizon iPhone would produce probably double the revenue that AT&T contributed to. Some people may think Apple is going to the juste thing and only offer a Verizon phone if its as perfect or better than the AT&T version, but they don't care. It's about money. That's it.

[doctor-don]

Verizon doesn't have EDGE data. In fact their 3G isn't to far from AT&T EDGE speeds.

too?

[doctor-don]

You're right. It's been determined it will cost 3.5% of their market cap ($5 billion) to make a network as reliable, and widespread as Verizon. Apple is not stupid. They are very well aware of the fact that a Verizon iPhone would produce probably double the revenue that AT&T contributed to. Some people may think Apple is going to the juste thing and only offer a Verizon phone if its as perfect or better than the AT&T version, but they don't care. It's about money. That's it.

What should have been done was to have a phone that is available for all the carriers. Both AT&T and Verizon are greedy ********.

[DakotaGuy]

Really? Maybe on a tech forum but 98% of all mobile phone users probably never leave the US with their phone. Most probably never leave their state. The vast majority of users couldn't care less about CDMA or GSM.

Most phone users care about the reliability of their network more so then they care about the technology behind it. I want a network that is very reliable no matter where I am and Verizon does the best job of that in the US.

[distortedloop]

How are they a lot higher? I only see visual voicemail being $2.99 while AT&T's is free. Is 3 dollars really considered a lot higher? If you are talking about the ETF fee, you should have mentioned the ETF being a part of your equation. I don't have a need for rollover minutes since everything is unlimited, which makes that a non-factor for me.

The $2.99 is just an example of the nickel and dime-ing billing practices that Verizon detractors point out as a bad thing. Pogue's laid into Verizon for several similar things in the past several months.

While you have unlimited everything, I imagine many people don't opt for that. These are the folks who find dozens of surprise little charges for data access because they pressed the wrong key on their phone or something similar. I'm just parroting (paraphrasing, actually) posts from Pogue that brought all this up recently. That's not been my experience with Verizon in the past, but I haven't been on them since trading my Palm Treo for the original iPhone.

Re: the ETF, I suspect that as the smart-phones get more expensive, the ETFs on all networks will go up to prevent the buy-and-cancel-sell-on-eBay scam a lot of people allegedly pulled with several high priced devices over the last few years.

[distortedloop]

You're right. It's been determined it will cost 3.5% of their market cap ($5 billion) to make a network as reliable, and widespread as Verizon.

Did you read AT&T's response to that analyst's claim? If I recall correctly, AT&T asserts that the analyst is misinformed because the costs to expand the backhaul have already been completed and paid out by the AT&T wireline side of the business. Google it for more details, but it sounded credible to this casual observer.

[doctor-don]

It's rude and adds nothing to the conversation that we're trying to follow. If you're out to dinner with friends and one of them uses poor grammar, do you correct their grammar in front of everyone else, if at all? If you're in a public discussion like a town-hall meeting, do you correct someone's bad grammar? I doubt it.

Why do you think it's appropriate here? If it's something that you feel just has to be done, send the person an IM. Doing it in public is rude and comes off as self-serving. I'm here for Apple fanboy talk, not English lessons from one stranger to another.

Most of us are in a hurry when we post. We make typos and don't proof-read our posts. It's not a big deal for most, in my opinion. I imagine Twitter must drive you absolutely nuts, huh? ;-)



/sigh/ Another one. LOL.

You're to bisy too proof-read whut ewe post fur evrybudy too reed?:confused:

[DiamondMac]

Going to Verizon is a Win/Win for us, imo

We have the ability to switch to Verizon and we also will have less congestion on the AT&T networks if we stay

I am not sure what I will do but I figure I will wait a few weeks before deciding anything (after the new phone is released) to see how everything is working

[distortedloop]

You're to bisy too proof-read whut ewe post fur evrybudy too reed?:confused:

Yep, and I'm also not so arrogant as to presume that it's my place to correct the typos of others in front of everyone else, no matter how good it would make me feel to show them how much smarter and better educated than they are that I think I am. :rolleyes:

[Ammo]

Going to Verizon is a Win/Win for us, imo

We have the ability to switch to Verizon and we also will have less congestion on the AT&T networks if we stay

I am not sure what I will do but I figure I will wait a few weeks before deciding anything (after the new phone is released) to see how everything is working

This.

And honestly, the reasons against a Verizon iPhone make me LOL.

There's a business case for it. In fact, I bet you'll see record iPhone sales when it comes out for Verizon and there will be shortages.

[LagunaSol]

Does anyone get all up in arms that Modern Warfare costs $60 when the CD itself costs only $0.10 to press?

Of course not. Does anyone get all up in arms that a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate Edition costs $320 when the DVD itself costs only $0.25 to press? Of course not. People only get all up in arms that Apple sells an iPhone for $600 when it only costs $200 to build. :rolleyes:

Microsoft's margins make Apple's look like child's play. Where's the outrage? Nowhere.

It's called selective indignation, and it's apparently triggered by a glowing fruit logo and nothing else. ;)

[chstr]

Going to Verizon is a Win/Win for us, imo

We have the ability to switch to Verizon and we also will have less congestion on the AT&T networks if we stay

I am not sure what I will do but I figure I will wait a few weeks before deciding anything (after the new phone is released) to see how everything is working

it's really a win/win for everybody, exclusivity really doesn't benefit anybody, except att initially but even they will benefit from the end of exclusivity from the competition and the easing up on their network

[diamond.g]

Think of it this way...Apple acts totally opposite of the video game industry...

Video game consoles are sold with minimal to negative profit, and the software is sold with incredible mark-ups (~50% - similar to Apple's margins). And the console makers make their money from licensing fees (App Developer membership fees).

Apple sells the console (ie phone) for large margins, and get next to no profits from the sales of software. The 30% cut that apple gets is to support the data centers, staff, bandwidth, upgrades, financial system to pay out sales to the developers, maintaining the iTunes Store, etc.

Does anyone get all up in arms that Modern Warfare costs $60 when the CD itself costs only $0.10 to press? ;)

Hickman
Nintendo consoles are sold for a profit (last I heard a pretty big one at that)...

[GroundLoop]

Nintendo consoles are sold for a profit (last I heard a pretty big one at that)...

That's what innovation allows a company to do. The Wii is an innovative machine and experience.

Hickman

[ghostface147]

The $2.99 is just an example of the nickel and dime-ing billing practices that Verizon detractors point out as a bad thing. Pogue's laid into Verizon for several similar things in the past several months.

Re: the ETF, I suspect that as the smart-phones get more expensive, the ETFs on all networks will go up to prevent the buy-and-cancel-sell-on-eBay scam a lot of people allegedly pulled with several high priced devices over the last few years.

I was merely raising the point that Verizon isn't a lot higher, but there is no denying they do nickel and dime people. However the other question is what is considered a lot? 4 dollars? 8 bucks?

I agree on the ETF fee being raised by all carriers soon.

[farmboy]

Yep, and I'm also not so arrogant as to presume that it's my place to correct the typos of others ....and better educated than they are that I think I am. :rolleyes:

"...and better educated than they are that I think I am". What? If we don't understand what you're saying, your post kind of loses importance, don't you think?

Grammar and accepted spelling change over time, but clarity is the goal.

[Ambrose Chapel]

it's really a win/win for everybody, exclusivity really doesn't benefit anybody, except att initially but even they will benefit from the end of exclusivity from the competition and the easing up on their network

yeah, i can only see multiple carriers as good for everyone, and inevitable. i do expect verizon to charge more than att for the data plan, however, with the justification that you are paying more for a superior product (the network) and that their network justifies the cost.

[binaryskies]

I'll be happy to see the iPhone open to other networks. Maybe that will result in lower prices. BUT...until I hear Steve Jobs announce it, I won't get my hopes up.

[prospervic]

It would clear up some of the congestion on AT&T, which would be great for me and others who like the network. Then we can see Verizon go through the same growing pains, which would be kind of funny.....

There's been a lot of this "Verizon couldn't handle the iPhone traffic" speculation going around. I used to think so too, but then I considered:

1. AT&T came together in its current form barely three years ago. The prior company, Cingular (which reportedly had a reputation for dropped calls) was significantly behind Verizon in building out it's network. Verizon's network is well established and has a reputation for consistent call quality and connection.

2. Verizon has had over 2.5 years to observe AT&T's experience and struggles with the iPhone, and has been taking copious notes. Whereas AT&T was pretty much blindsided by the enormous popularity of the device.

Given the above, there's the possibility that Verizon will have a smoother adoption of the iPhone than AT&T did, further damaging AT&T's reputation.

However, one big plus for AT&T is that it's GSM network allows for simultaneous voice and data use, while Verizon's CDMA does not.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Verizon -- with it's "cripple the phone and make you pay a monthly charge for it's built-in features" tactics, it is one of the world's greediest nickle-and-dimers. Just bringing up some points to consider.

[donlab]

Bottome line... if ATT loses exclusivity does that mean ATT has to unlock our iPhone should we choose to go with another carrier after contract?

[carlgo]

Dramatically increasing the market for iPhones/tablet things by allowing more than one carrier.

As the load is spread out, actual user experience and speeds magically and immediately improve.

Text books are replaced by tablet. Apple sells text book apps to school districts. Districts save millions, texts are up to date and interesting, test scores go up dramatically.

Newspaper and book sales increase dramatically.

Apple stock soars to 1000. Short-sellers are wiped out, but I am rich. That alone is worthy of being "the best thing I have ever done".

[sschwar4]

I would laugh so hard if the iPhone does go to Verizon, they have to use the EDGE network with it for a year like us on AT&T had to

Still have to use EGDE in many places, even at home, glad I have WiFi. Don't see this changing anytime soon. 3G coverage is spotty in many locations.

[beamer8912]

Yea i would think so, which makes me highly doubt that they will launching on Verizon as early as wednesday. I can only imagine the negative uproar from early adopters from Verizon when the iphone 4g launches in the Summer. Sorry buddy, can't sign up a new contract so soon!

Why does the Verizon phone have to launch weds? It can't launch in the summer with the 4G?

[Xavier]

It might make sense to have both the iPhone and the Tablet on both of the primary networks in the US. How will they do it? Wednesday. Price? Wednesday? Is it actually true? Wednesday

[sschwar4]

it's really a win/win for everybody, exclusivity really doesn't benefit anybody, except att initially but even they will benefit from the end of exclusivity from the competition and the easing up on their network

Exclusivity has been a win/win.
User benefit AT&T benefit
save $400 on phone keep customer for 2 years

Even if you were able to purchase an iPhone that was unlocked for even a $400 price tag, you still pay the same for service, just no contract.

If Verizon did have an iPhone on their network, say in a month, most current iPhone users will need to pay the escape fee, just to make the switch. And then they need to purchase a new iPhone and start all over on a new 2 year agreement.

Oh, and if you wanted to go to T-mobile, you will need to get an iPhone from them as well, your is locked to AT&T. Unless you have a hack for solving that issue.

[TraceyS/FL]

It might make sense to have both the iPhone and the Tablet on both of the primary networks in the US. How will they do it? Wednesday. Price? Wednesday? Is it actually true? Wednesday

How about a March release for the Tablet and CDMA iPhone....

With Verizon getting an exclusive on the "new phone" until June ;)

[imac9556]

Bottome line... if ATT loses exclusivity does that mean ATT has to unlock our iPhone should we choose to go with another carrier after contract?

I am wondering the same thing too!....

[ct2k7]

I hope AT&T don't lose iPhone exclusivity for a LONG time :apple:

[bossxii]

I hope the iPhone eventually ends up on other carriers, spreading the data load can only help service on AT&T's network. Will VZ put the same limits on the iPhone by restricting your usage, such as not allowing you to talk and surf? as it does now on their other phones?

VZ has better overall coverage where i live but not being able to access email, maps etc.. while on the phone is a deal breaker for me. I don't know about pricing on VZ but I think users that bitch about AT&T find will just as many things to bitch about with VZ once they move over. I hope it happens and AT&T see masses of iPhones users move to VZW... then I'll have less congestion and higher speeds with AT&T where I live :)

It's not bad now, but soon could be better than my 5mb cable speeds!

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9778/photoup.jpg

[mj1108]

I hope they do let the iPhone onto other carriers only so my friends who have AT&T will stop complaining about them. Anything to take a load off of AT&T's network is a good thing.

I hope AT&T don't lose iPhone exclusivity for a LONG time :apple:

I'd love to hear the reasoning behind this.

[TraceyS/FL]

I hope the iPhone eventually ends up on other carriers, spreading the data load can only help service on AT&T's network. Will VZ put the same limits on the iPhone by restricting your usage, such as not allowing you to talk and surf? as it does now on their other phones?

This is a technical thing of the network, not something Verizon is implementing and can change.

Unlike edge however (from what i have read), you have the option of taking a phone call while surfing, it doesn't go straight to VM.

It's a non-issue for me personally.....

[OllyW]

I hope AT&T don't lose iPhone exclusivity for a LONG time :apple:

Why?

It will benefit both Apple and consumers if it's available on more networks.

[doctor-don]

I was merely raising the point that Verizon isn't a lot higher, but there is no denying they do nickel and dime people. However the other question is what is considered a lot? 4 dollars? 8 bucks?

I agree on the ETF fee being raised by all carriers soon.

Previous MCI/Verizon customer-

DATE ........ TOTAL....PHONE....TAX & SURCHARGES
Feb 2005 - $33.56 - $22.99 - $10.57
Dec 2006 - $40.37 - $25.99 - $14.31
Oct 2007 - $42.76 - $26.96 - $15.80
Jan 2008 - $44.75 - $28.99 - $15.76
Apr 2008 - $55.50 - $38.99 - $16.51 :eek:

April 2008 - cut the phone line completely.

Losing customers, so raise rates for remaining customers - good business model ... NOT! :confused:

[poe diddley]

I hope AT&T don't lose iPhone exclusivity for a LONG time :apple:

yeah. um. why?
do you have any idea how much better it would be for everyone if it was available on other networks? the strain to att's network would be relieved, and A LOT more people would be likely to purchase it. att's network blows seriously in my area, so i know several people that WOULD get an iphone if att was not the only option, myself included.
verizon iphone. that's the only announcement worth hearing besides the tablet IMO

[AidenShaw]

Of course not. Does anyone get all up in arms that a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate Edition costs $320 when the DVD itself costs only $0.25 to press?...

There's no indignation because people realize that Microsoft spends $8B to $10B a year in R&D.

They know that it would cost $10B to make only one Windows 7 DVD. Nobody is "up in arms" just because
it would cost $10,000,000,000.25 to make two DVDs.

No software company could price their products based on the incremental cost per unit produced.
I doubt that any company could price any mass-produced product on the incremental cost per unit.

[hushmartin]

Can't blame you.
Verizon since forever had the worst selection of
phones on the market up untill 6-7 months ago with a few
decent device additions.

Ain't that the truth. That's the whole reason I left Verizon- ****** locked down phones. If they'd had the iPhone, I would still be with them.

edited to add: I'd have stayed last year if they had something that could have compared to the iPhone, like the Droid.

[Silencer]

Could Wednesday be the day the iPhone is available open to ALL networks?

We can only hope.

[LagunaSol]

There's no indignation because people realize that Microsoft spends $8B to $10B a year in R&D.

They know that it would cost $10B to make only one Windows 7 DVD. Nobody is "up in arms" just because
it would cost $10,000,000,000.25 to make two DVDs.

No software company could price their products based on the incremental cost per unit produced.
I doubt that any company could price any mass-produced product on the incremental cost per unit.

Yet on the other hand, iPhone, iPhone OS, and Mac OS X design and develop themselves. :rolleyes:

[Surely]

Could Wednesday be the day the iPhone is available open to ALL networks?

We can only hope.

Hope all you want, but the answer is no.

[Silencer]

Hope all you want, but the answer is no.

Your probably Surely right :(

[sishaw]

Could Wednesday be the day the iPhone is available open to ALL networks?

We can only hope.

Possibly the day of the announcement, but not the actual day you can go out and buy a Verizon iPhone.

[davidbrummy]

This is a technical thing of the network, not something Verizon is implementing and can change.

Unlike edge however (from what i have read), you have the option of taking a phone call while surfing, it doesn't go straight to VM.

It's a non-issue for me personally.....

This is true but I agree it is not a real issue for most people I know. I would rather have faster data and currently AT&T is bad in San Francisco.

The iPhone on Verizon would be a good thing for everyone. Even if you stayed on AT&T it would decrease the traffic.

[ethan028]

I will fall to my knees and cry if the iphone gets off of AT&T i'm not switching again! :(

[GroundLoop]

There's no indignation because people realize that Microsoft spends $8B to $10B a year in R&D.

They know that it would cost $10B to make only one Windows 7 DVD. Nobody is "up in arms" just because
it would cost $10,000,000,000.25 to make two DVDs.

No software company could price their products based on the incremental cost per unit produced.
I doubt that any company could price any mass-produced product on the incremental cost per unit.

Not sure if you read the whole thread, but this is the exact argument that we are all making. Earlier, Ryeno was complaining that the iPhone parts only cost $180 and that Apple is ripping everyone off.

Hickman

[TraceyS/FL]

I will fall to my knees and cry if the iphone gets off of AT&T i'm not switching again! :(

You are missing the point - you won't have to switch.

Want to be on AT&T - go or stay with an iPhone.

Want to be on Verizon - go or stay with an iPhone.

Putting it on MORE CARRIERS does NOT mean the first gets dumped. Exclusive - you can only buy it THERE. Non-exclusive - buy it more places.

[doctor-don]

Not sure if you read the whole thread, but this is the exact argument that we are all making. Earlier, Ryeno was complaining that the iPhone parts only cost $180 and that Apple is ripping everyone off.

Hickman

Do you mean that Apple shouldn't sell that $180 iPhone for a modest, usual 5% profit? That would be $189 for the iPhone (before taxes). :D

They certainly would sell MANY more iPhones. I might have bought one instead of the myTouch.

But then, how would they have paid all those (R&D et al) employees.:confused:

[sam10685]

I'm hoping it does what the RAZR did and go to almost all carries. Seems like that'd be the wisest move for apple.

[Ammo]

I hope AT&T don't lose iPhone exclusivity for a LONG time :apple:

Um, why?

[VenusianSky]

No software company could price their products based on the incremental cost per unit produced.
I doubt that any company could price any mass-produced product on the incremental cost per unit.

The price of the software on disc is nearly or exactly the same as a downloadable copy in many cases, such as Windows.

[kironin]

No one knows how long the original iPhone and post iPhone 3G contracts were. And I mean no one outside Apple HQ and AT&T HQ. Everyone is assuming and doing wishful thinking on mere analysis.

Verizon will not carry the iPhone for a long time. So quit it with such threads... once LTE is up and running then, yes I'll feel more comfortable saying, Verizon might get it soon.


fine, except I have a family member that works at ATT Wireless division and who should know that was very adamant last November that there would be an iPhone available from Verizon in 2010. It was already a done deal. Given that, I think the buzz has some fire behind the smoke.

[butterfly0fdoom]

T-Mobile HSPA iPhone 3GS ?

Easy to add, just a AWS power amplifier (a sub $1 part), the baseband and iPhone software already supports the rest.

The antenna that the iPhones use don't support the 1700 band; only T-Mobile uses it anyway.

I'm a Canadian. There is no CDMA iPhone in Canada and not all carriers have the iPhone in Canada. Three carriers have the 3G iPhone (Bell, Telus, Rogers)

Sorry, I misspoke; but at the same time, Bell and Telus deploying WCDMA is very much key to how Rogers lost exclusivity.

Here's a question for you gurus:

I know that switching from one GSM carrier to another can be done by switching the SIM cards. How would one switch from one CDMA carrier to another? I'm with Sprint, and would snatch up a Verizon iPhone in a minute if I knew I could somehow put it on Sprint's network.

CDMA phones have to be re-coded for the network, but Verizon's probably not going to let you do that.

There's been a lot of this "Verizon couldn't handle the iPhone traffic" speculation going around. I used to think so too, but then I considered:

1. AT&T came together in its current form barely three years ago. The prior company, Cingular (which reportedly had a reputation for dropped calls) was significantly behind Verizon in building out it's network. Verizon's network is well established and has a reputation for consistent call quality and connection.

2. Verizon has had over 2.5 years to observe AT&T's experience and struggles with the iPhone, and has been taking copious notes. Whereas AT&T was pretty much blindsided by the enormous popularity of the device.

Given the above, there's the possibility that Verizon will have a smoother adoption of the iPhone than AT&T did, further damaging AT&T's reputation.

However, one big plus for AT&T is that it's GSM network allows for simultaneous voice and data use, while Verizon's CDMA does not.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Verizon -- with it's "cripple the phone and make you pay a monthly charge for it's built-in features" tactics, it is one of the world's greediest nickle-and-dimers. Just bringing up some points to consider.

Part of that point, at least from my end, is that if Verizon were to have launched the iPhone instead of AT&T, it's possible they'd be in the same situation. If I were an executive at Cingular, I wouldn't have thought the iPhone would be such a big seller. I'd think that the mandatory $20 data plan per line and $500-600 initial cost for the phone would make the iPhone more of a niche product, even when the price got dropped by $200, therefore I'd think that the network could handle it. And even when the iPhone 3G's price went down to start at $200, I'd think that the mandatory $30 data plan that didn't even include texting would be able to bring it back to being a niche halo product.

But what annoys me most here is, yes, if Verizon indeed does launch the iPhone, they will for sure have a smoother adoption, and, while AT&T's network does leave much to be desired (it's worked great for me for the past 7 years, though), it'll just create a lot of damage for AT&T's reputation that's caused by self-centric consumers that don't look at the big picture at all.

[sam10685]

I will fall to my knees and cry if the iphone gets off of AT&T i'm not switching again! :(

I'd be terrified if I were you. If this happens, Apple and AT&T will certainly force you to sell your iphone on the spot. :eek:

[VenusianSky]

Yet on the other hand, iPhone, iPhone OS, and Mac OS X design and develop themselves. :rolleyes:

How many other systems does the iPhone OS and Mac OS X run on other than Apple hardware? What's the desktop computer or server that Microsoft makes that runs its OS?

[LagunaSol]

Not sure if you read the whole thread, but this is the exact argument that we are all making. Earlier, Ryeno was complaining that the iPhone parts only cost $180 and that Apple is ripping everyone off.

AidenShaw ignores the obvious when it doesn't suit his agenda (read: tirelessly trying to push Windows from 95% market share to 100%).

The real question is: with 95% market share, how can one justify $320 for an operating system that costs $0.25 to press, even if you spent $10 billion to get there? Shouldn't massive adoption rates bring prices down, especially with something that carries almost no actual production costs? Logic would say yes.

Nope, they have no problem with Microsoft's margins (and enormous profits) at all - not when they can direct all their rage at the fruit company with the funny leader in the black turtleneck.

And where Microsoft's $10 billion in R&D is really going is another argument for another day - you certainly can't see its results in actual innovation.

How many other systems does the iPhone OS and Mac OS X run on other than Apple hardware? What's the desktop computer or server that Microsoft makes that runs its OS?

What relevance does that have to the argument at hand?

[Rodimus Prime]

Previous MCI/Verizon customer-

DATE ........ TOTAL....PHONE....TAX & SURCHARGES
Feb 2005 - $33.56 - $22.99 - $10.57
Dec 2006 - $40.37 - $25.99 - $14.31
Oct 2007 - $42.76 - $26.96 - $15.80
Jan 2008 - $44.75 - $28.99 - $15.76
Apr 2008 - $55.50 - $38.99 - $16.51 :eek:

April 2008 - cut the phone line completely.

Losing customers, so raise rates for remaining customers - good business model ... NOT! :confused:

Food for though but that is not valid unless you compare it to AT&T. For the most part when you compare AT&T and Verizon they work out to be almost exactly the same after you include the nickel and diming for each one. They both do it to death. If you look at them both over the long term guess what you discover. The cost of the respect cell phone plans on both companies work out to be pretty close to one another. Bouncing back and forth on who cost more.

Spirnt is the most upfrount about their monthly cost and has least amount of adds in.

T-mobile is the worse on the nickel and diming add in. Their basic plans offer the LEAST amount of extras. now the nice then is you can add in what you want and need and do not have to pay for any extra.

[Rodimus Prime]

AidenShaw ignores the obvious when it doesn't suit his agenda (read: tirelessly trying to push Windows from 95% market share to 100%).

The real question is: with 95% market share, how can one justify $320 for an operating system that costs $0.25 to press, even if you spent $10 billion to get there? Shouldn't massive adoption rates bring prices down, especially with something that carries almost no actual production costs? Logic would say yes.

Nope, they have no problem with Microsoft's margins (and enormous profits) at all - not when they can direct all their rage at the fruit company with the funny leader in the black turtleneck.


You do know that very few copies of Microsoft OS are sold at $320 right. That is for the full retail version of it.

Now lets compare that to apple who releases a new OS every 1-1.5 on average with a cost of $129. So when you comare that to 3-4 Apple seems to pop off the the time of one over MS OS windows looks a hell of a lot cheaper.

[cms2]

I hope there is something to this. The only thing keeping me with ATT this past year has been my iPhone. Not that I think Verizon is much better, but generally, competition is a good thing. It's been several years since I switched from Verizon to Cingular, but I remember Verizon having good customer service. My personal experience with ATT has not been good.

[tennispro5023]

[QUOTE=Applejuiced;9136724]Are you kidding? AT&T is far from the worst network.
Keep buying those Verizon commercials.....



"Keep buying"??? You have to be ****ing joking me right now? I didn't even get service in my own house with AT&T. Verizon is without a doubt THE MOST REALIABLE and BEST wireless carrier. It would explain why they are Number 1 and have the most people on their network and will only gain many more when they finally get the iPhone.

[crackbookpro]

Bottome line... if ATT loses exclusivity does that mean ATT has to unlock our iPhone should we choose to go with another carrier after contract?

The AT&T iPhone would have to be unlocked for a similar radio band network (GSM) for its communications. So, for the US it would have to be a carrier like T-Mobile.

If the iPhone does get released on Verizon, which I wholeheartedly do believe will happen because of the exclusivity deal ending with AT&T & an emerging market opportunity - Apple may just start building all the new iPhones using one of the dual GSM/CDMA chips and utilize it for all carriers.

I am know expert in whether or not the dual-chips have worked as stated, but I do know Blackberry and some Droid phones already utilizing these.

I am wondering what are the cons about the dual-chip? ...If there are major flaws in the dual chips then I don't see Apple building a "one-for-all."

[LagunaSol]

Now lets compare that to apple who releases a new OS every 1-1.5 on average with a cost of $129. So when you comare that to 3-4 Apple seems to pop off the the time of one over MS OS windows looks a hell of a lot cheaper.

Yes, the fact that Microsoft only releases a decent OS every 10 years makes it a real bargain. :rolleyes: Hey, you found the silver lining! *handclap*

As a niche (5%) OS, Apple's stuff should be more expensive. Do you think it takes less effort to create an OS just because you hold a very small piece of the market? Of course it doesn't.

Microsoft's 95% stranglehold on the OS market, on the other hand, should net me a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate for around $49 retail - if you want to talk about "reasonable" margins that is (but of course you don't).

Where's the outrage?

[~NeonFire372~]

Competition is always a good thing, although Bell and Telus gaining the iPhone in Canada didn't do much.. then again it's a smaller market.

[VenusianSky]

What relevance does that have to the argument at hand?

I thought the argument is whether the price of the software is reflected in the price of the hardware that the software is written specifically for. I'm not sure how MS Windows became part of the debate considering it is not written for a specific piece of hardware made by the same company.

[maschinetheist]

Anybody remember the iPhone nano?

[Rodimus Prime]

The AT&T iPhone would have to be unlocked for a similar radio band network (GSM) for its communications. So, for the US it would have to be a carrier like T-Mobile.

If the iPhone does get released on Verizon, which I wholeheartedly do believe will happen because of the exclusivity deal ending with AT&T & an emerging market opportunity - Apple may just start building all the new iPhones using one of the dual GSM/CDMA chips and utilize it for all carriers.

I am know expert in whether or not the dual-chips have worked as stated, but I do know Blackberry and some Droid phones already utilizing these.

I am wondering what are the cons about the dual-chip? ...If there are major flaws in the dual chips then I don't see Apple building a "one-for-all."

That is what I expect apple would start doing. RIM already does that with there CDMA phones. If you pull up the charts on RIMs phone you will see if they have CDMA support on said phone it supports everything else. The Bold 9700 supports everything but CDMA but I expect the tour2 will be supporting everything include CDMA.
All blackberry CDMA phones (Storm and Tour) contain a sim card slot for if and when the phone is unlock so they can be used with a GSM carrier.

The only thing I could for see apple having to do is build in 2 Sim card slots. One for a R-UIM and one for a SIM card. CDMA cariars have been thinking about starting to use an R-UIM card which is basicly a SIM card for CDMA. Reason I would expect it to require 2 slots is it would not suprise me if the specs on R-UIM and SIM are slight different so it has to be handled differently.


Oh and just to point out the

[Eidorian]

I thought the argument is whether the price of the software is reflected in the price of the hardware that the software is written specifically for. I'm not sure how MS Windows became part of the debate considering it is not written for a specific piece of hardware made by the same company.All of this has happened before and it will happen again.

I think that your comeback was already answered in my post:

"No software company could price their products based on the incremental cost per unit produced.
I doubt that any company could price any mass-produced product on the incremental cost per unit."Why did you have to spoil it? :D Anyone that read your post would have seen it.

[AidenShaw]

Yet on the other hand, iPhone, iPhone OS, and Mac OS X design and develop themselves. :rolleyes:

I think that your comeback was already answered in my post:

"No software company could price their products based on the incremental cost per unit produced.
I doubt that any company could price any mass-produced product on the incremental cost per unit."


Not sure if you read the whole thread, but this is the exact argument that we are all making. Earlier, Ryeno was complaining that the iPhone parts only cost $180 and that Apple is ripping everyone off.

Not *everyone* is making that argument, LagunaSol seems to argue that $0.50 is the right price for Windows 7.

[OllyW]

I thought the argument is whether the price of the software is reflected in the price of the hardware that the software is written specifically for. I'm not sure how MS Windows became part of the debate considering it is not written for a specific piece of hardware made by the same company.

I don't know how any of this became part of the debate about AT&T losing iPhone exclusivity on Wednesday. :rolleyes:

[rhett7660]

[QUOTE=Applejuiced;9136724]Are you kidding? AT&T is far from the worst network.
Keep buying those Verizon commercials.....



"Keep buying"??? You have to be ****ing joking me right now? I didn't even get service in my own house with AT&T. Verizon is without a doubt THE MOST REALIABLE and BEST wireless carrier for me. It would explain why they are Number 1 and have the most people on their network and will only gain many more when they finally get the iPhone.

There fixed that for you...

[Rodimus Prime]

Yes, the fact that Microsoft only releases a decent OS every 10 years makes it a real bargain. :rolleyes: Hey, you found the silver lining! *handclap*

As a niche (5%) OS, Apple's stuff should be more expensive. Do you think it takes less effort to create an OS just because you hold a very small piece of the market? Of course it doesn't.

Microsoft's 95% stranglehold on the OS market, on the other hand, should net me a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate for around $49 retail - if you want to talk about "reasonable" margins that is (but of course you don't).

Where's the outrage?


My problem with your argument is exactly what I point out. You have no problem pointing that out about MS but come up with a BS excuse when it is pointed out about apple.

I personally think Apple and Microsoft over charge. Apple charges a crap load of money for a service pack and a few new features. Microsoft just does huge OS updates but both over charge for it.

Now neither are as bad as some other software I can think of that is there. For example AutoCAD. A new copy every year that you have to pay thousands for. The changes are minor at best but they change the way the files are saved to screw over older copies of it.

Either way I think you like to make that argument about MS OS but glass over the fact that Apple is many ways is by far worse.

[rdowns]

I hope there is something to this. The only thing keeping me with ATT this past year has been my iPhone. Not that I think Verizon is much better, but generally, competition is a good thing. It's been several years since I switched from Verizon to Cingular, but I remember Verizon having good customer service. My personal experience with ATT has not been good.


I don't mean to single you out but your post was there.

I always see all these posts about customer service. May I ask why you all have so much interaction with your wireless provider? Other than one billing error, I have never had to contact Cingular/ATT in 6-7 years.

[VenusianSky]

I don't know how any of this became part of the debate about AT&T losing iPhone exclusivity on Wednesday. :rolleyes:

True dat. And I took the bait :o

[rwilliams]

If Apple is going to bring the iPhone to a CDMA carrier, it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to offer it to just one (Verizon). If the GSM/CDMA combo chips are ready for major usage, they should just build all future iPhones with this combo chip and offer up the phone to every US carrier.

[nickdelvecchio]

If Apple is going to bring the iPhone to a CDMA carrier, it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to offer it to just one (Verizon). If the GSM/CDMA combo chips are ready for major usage, they should just build all future iPhones with this combo chip and offer up the phone to every US carrier.


I agree, but it depends on how much moolah verizon (or any other carrier) would pay for more exclusivity.. at least it would be unlock-able to most carriers.

[robfromabove]

If Apple is going to bring the iPhone to a CDMA carrier, it doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to offer it to just one (Verizon). If the GSM/CDMA combo chips are ready for major usage, they should just build all future iPhones with this combo chip and offer up the phone to every US carrier.

Not necessarily. As tech-savvy as current iPhone users may be, bringing it to a crippled network like MetroPCS could be bad business for Apple - the majority of phone users don't realize the intricacies of networks, and when their iPhone has worse web speeds than offered by AT&T, they'll automatically assume it's the phone not the network.

Plus I think Apple likes the exclusivity of their phone.

[balamw]

May I ask why you all have so much interaction with your wireless provider?

+1, I too have been with AWS->Cingular->AT&T for a LONG time and have maybe called them twice in all that time. Once to activate a new phone and once to get help in setting up my voicemail 'case the shortcut key wasn't working.

Maybe it's just where I live and work, but AT&T works fine for me.

B

[Peace]

+1, I too have been with AWS->Cingular->AT&T for a LONG time and have maybe called them twice in all that time. Once to activate a new phone and once to get help in setting up my voicemail 'case the shortcut key wasn't working.

Maybe it's just where I live and work, but AT&T works fine for me.

B

Works fine for me too. Unless there is something very important that I can't do on AT&T I don't see myself moving to Verizon.

[rdowns]

Isn't most contact with customer service departments over non payment of bills?

[goobot]

macromors you need to give it up. version is not getting the iphone.

[cumanzor]

Of course not. Does anyone get all up in arms that a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate Edition costs $320 when the DVD itself costs only $0.25 to press? Of course not. People only get all up in arms that Apple sells an iPhone for $600 when it only costs $200 to build. :rolleyes:

Microsoft's margins make Apple's look like child's play. Where's the outrage? Nowhere.

It's called selective indignation, and it's apparently triggered by a glowing fruit logo and nothing else. ;)

Hey look who's talking about selective indignation. :p

You probably agree with me, this whole argument is complete ******** for virtually every case you can think of:


CoD:MW2: Costs of development? Fees paid to MS and Sony for the SDK? Advertisement, artwork, etc, etc, etc.
Windows 7*: The same, who pays developers, advertisers, etc, etc?
iPhone: Costs of R&D and advertisement?


And they also want profit out of it. None of these things happen magically. There are far more costs involved than just $0.25 to press a DVD.

*please refrain from your known irrelevant anti-MS biased comments/jokes.

[aristotle]

Verizon is not getting the iPhone and it most certainly is not getting iPhone exclusively The majority of iPhone sales now are outside of the US and all of those countries use GSM. It would be suicide to release the next iPhone on a carrier and standard that only worked in the US.

[butterfly0fdoom]

+1, I too have been with AWS->Cingular->AT&T for a LONG time and have maybe called them twice in all that time. Once to activate a new phone and once to get help in setting up my voicemail 'case the shortcut key wasn't working.

Maybe it's just where I live and work, but AT&T works fine for me.

B

I've only ever called them to get SIM unlock codes.

[LagunaSol]

Maybe it's just where I live and work, but AT&T works fine for me.

Agreed. I've never understood the Verizon religion. I'm not saying I like AT&T (I don't), but I have no reason to dislike them based on their service, which also works fine for me where I live and work.

AT&T's texting plan prices are criminal though.

I view all carriers as equally evil. That said, the more carriers Apple can sell its phones through, the better for me (and the worse for Apple's competitors).

[ThunderSkunk]

That has never been stated either.

What? Ach. I thought that was in print upon the booking of the venue. Now my "I'll believe it when I see it" approach has even less to go on.

[Ammo]

Verizon is not getting the iPhone and it most certainly is not getting iPhone exclusively The majority of iPhone sales now are outside of the US and all of those countries use GSM. It would be suicide to release the next iPhone on a carrier and standard that only worked in the US.

It's not getting the iPhone exclusively...

But how...HOW is it suicide to release the iPhone for Verizon if it's also on other carriers?

How could selling 20 million more iPhones be a bad thing?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Who cares if it doesn't work outside the U.S. if there are other versions of it that do!

Please explain this to me. Logic seems to fall on deaf ears.