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arn
Jul 30, 2002, 09:46 AM
Spymac reports (http://www.spymac.com/comments.php?id=118_0_1_0_C) that .Mac services will see ongoing feature integration with current iApps, including iMovie.

This direction seems to fit with their recent introduction of iCal and integrated calender publishing with .Mac.

Spymac had originally published rumors of a Pro iTools (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/04/20020402071448.shtml) (.Mac) back in April.

Future Man
Jul 30, 2002, 10:29 AM
I hope they add proper support for paying customers!

Graefe
Jul 30, 2002, 11:28 AM
This was pretty well predictable and a logic consequence of Apple's new strategy. And that's still the very beginning of a long way towards 'rent-an-os'.

synergy
Jul 30, 2002, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by Graefe
This was pretty well predictable and a logic consequence of Apple's new strategy. And that's still the very beginning of a long way towards 'rent-an-os'.

Microsoft is much much closer on the scheme of rent-an-os.
I am not sure if Apple wants to tread down that path because then that lends a lot of viability to non-rent-OSes.

Apple can position themselves as having the buy it and its yours OS and yet still generate recurring fees on .Mac.

beno
Jul 30, 2002, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by Graefe
...the very beginning of a long way towards 'rent-an-os'.

So far .Mac provides added value, not any core functionality.

Also, iCal calendars can be published to any WebDAV server, .Mac just provides one easy alternative. Let's hope the apparent new iMovie functionality also doesn't necessarily tie you to .Mac.

GPTurismo
Jul 30, 2002, 12:07 PM
Personally, the only thing bothering me about .mac is the payment plan. 99 dollars is less than ten dollars a month, I wish they had a plan to pay per quarter, or even per month, and I think it would look a lot better. And 100 megs of space for less than 10 bucks a month isn't really that bad...

jg3
Jul 30, 2002, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by beno
...iCal calendars can be published to any WebDAV server...

Rats, I thought it would use FTP... silly me. Anyone know how to make Darwin/OS X serve up a directory as a WebDAV volume? Or maybe some script madness can be invented to give iCal (and others down the road?) the ability to publish via FTP. I sure hope Apple makes (has made?) it easy to do WebDAV stuff, at least in Server. I would not be too pleased if the only practical way to get WebDAV space was .Mac, and neither would the rest of the Mac community, I bet.

Most of the .Mac hoo-hah has not really affected me, so I have not had much of an opinion, but if it starts becoming the "only" way to accomplish bunches of things, it could get ugly.

mymemory
Jul 30, 2002, 01:08 PM
My statement:

Bunch of crap every where, but not processor upgrades.

Cutting corners and offering unrealistic services and toys won't save the reputation of a company.

Apple is about computers, that is it! about Power Macs. Now seems that the processor speed are not prioritary. Apple is acting like an infomercial, each month a new "revolutionary" product that you do not really need (iCal, .mac, iPod, iPhoto, etc).

Come on! where are the real stuff? where are the 2Ghz Power Macs?

szark
Jul 30, 2002, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by jg3
Anyone know how to make Darwin/OS X serve up a directory as a WebDAV volume?

I sure hope Apple makes (has made?) it easy to do WebDAV stuff, at least in Server.

It is extremely easy to activate WebDAV under OS X Server (http://www.apple.com/creative/webpro/technology/webdavsetup/index2.html).

I'm sure I remember Steve mentioning at the keynote that they would be adding additional functionality to .Mac over time.

BobVB
Jul 30, 2002, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by GPTurismo
And 100 megs of space for less than 10 bucks a month isn't really that bad...

PowWeb's $7.77/month for 250 MB and much more. (http://www.powweb.com/pow1detail.html)

MacArtist
Jul 30, 2002, 05:42 PM
.Mac actually offers quite a few usefull services for the novice as well as advanced user. For Apple to add a publish feature for iMovie, similar to the one in iPhoto, is a good move.

For those of you who are complaining about the price of .Mac, saying that there are other sevices out there that are cheaper, give you more space, etc, I'd be willing to bet that they
1) don't offer the integration that .Mac does with the OS,
2) don't offer the ease of use for the novice that .Mac does.

The one service that offers ease of use, email, web space, and other services while catering to the novice is AOL. Last I checked the stats for AOL on the Mac were:
1. up to 7 screen names
2. 2MB of storage for web-hosting/FTP per screen name (thats a total of 14MB of storage)
3. no anti-virus software
4. no back-up software
5. @ $10/month ($120/year) if you have your own ISP

So compared to this .Mac looks pretty good.

fallt
Jul 30, 2002, 07:38 PM
Regarding the following:

For those of you who are complaining about the price of .Mac, saying that there are other sevices out there that are cheaper, give you more space, etc, I'd be willing to bet that they
1) don't offer the integration that .Mac does with the OS,
2) don't offer the ease of use for the novice that .Mac does.

Weren't 1) integration with the Mac OS and 2) ease of use, the reason that iTools was sold to us originally as part of the OS, i.e. an extension of the OS, NOT something you pay for as an extra.

Apple fragmenting their OS like this will only irritate users in the long run and damage Apple's chances of a successful 'Switch' campaign. All those rose-tinted-spectacle wearers who go on about how cheap .Mac is fail to realise that we already paid for iTools (sorry, .Mac) as part of the premium cost of buying an (i)Mac.

Best,

Chris

beno
Jul 31, 2002, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by fallt
..... All those rose-tinted-spectacle wearers who go on about how cheap .Mac is fail to realise that we already paid for iTools (sorry, .Mac) as part of the premium cost of buying an (i)Mac....

No, you didn't. You pay the premium for the better hard- and software, not for lifelong Internet Services. That last part exists only in your rose-tinted fantasy, not in any agreement you made with Apple when you bought your Mac.

Remember, you have a choice, nobody is forcing you to buy .Mac (or Jaguar for that matter). If you don't think it's worth it, spend your money somewhere else.

logo1234
Jul 31, 2002, 03:48 AM
<offtopic> (sic!)
Hey come on guys!

Face it, the times where (good/great) things on the net were free are over!

Apple like any other company will need to make money. Give away webspace, traffic and all the tools would be - economically speeking - plain selfdestructing!
I bet a couple of you have your money on Wallstreet (if not Apple, then some other!) and like to see some return on your investment!

Selling a computer is one thing. Creating continuous profit after sales is the key, as no one at this time is going to be able to spend soon again after the buy of the hardware...

I agree with GPTurismo that a monthly or quarterly payment for .mac would look and feel a lot better! Making the additional services optional and let us have a cheap (if not free) email address would take a lot out of this ongoing discussion!

As for the price I would admit that there are better offers concerning value (MBs and services like PHP, MySQL etc...), yet not for the novice and people like my mom and dad. The design and userfriendliness of .mac has no competitor on the web!
And anyway, if you're the professional, you don't use the tools, you can do it yourself and you don't have to rely on webspace at apple's .mac!!!

Just my 2cts
</offtopic>

Pants
Jul 31, 2002, 04:54 AM
Originally posted by MacArtist
.Mac actually offers quite a few usefull services for the novice as well as advanced user. For Apple to add a publish feature for iMovie, similar to the one in iPhoto, is a good move.

For those of you who are complaining about the price of .Mac, saying that there are other sevices out there that are cheaper, give you more space, etc, I'd be willing to bet that they
1) don't offer the integration that .Mac does with the OS,
2) don't offer the ease of use for the novice that .Mac does.

The one service that offers ease of use, email, web space, and other services while catering to the novice is AOL. Last I checked the stats for AOL on the Mac were:
1. up to 7 screen names
2. 2MB of storage for web-hosting/FTP per screen name (thats a total of 14MB of storage)
3. no anti-virus software
4. no back-up software
5. @ $10/month ($120/year) if you have your own ISP

So compared to this .Mac looks pretty good.


I fail to see ANY value in .mac - I already pay 30 quid to my isp per month for a broadband connection (without which .mac is useless anyway), for which i get an email address, more web space, and above all, a fast connection. ooh wow! anti virus software and back up software ! is this THE only value in .mac? The cheap money grabbing trick of charging for an otherwise free email address has really left a sour taste - apple for one has lost my ongoing loyalty and advocacy - it is now viewed as any other corporate money grabber, and as such shall be picked up and dropped when required. That was a sad day for me... :(


and dont get me started on the 'added' value of jaguar, considering as an early adopter of osX I have already spent a small fortune on a hamstrung os , only to be told that I need to pay for a point release to get the damn thing to acceptable levels of performance. iChat? iCal? these 'toys' are worth 129 notes?

( I was an eWorld member once & how long did that last? I doubt .Mac will last much longer...)

j763
Jul 31, 2002, 07:52 AM
I'm sorry, but however you want to twist the pricing, it's an absolute rip-off. If they're adding features, well, great for them. Maybe in 12 months time they might have something which entices me to sign up. But in the meantime, to offer a crap backup program, virex (which is such a bad product, there is currently only ONE developer working on it), a static HTML homepage and a bit of WebDAV space tacked onto a really damn expensive email account for $99 a yr isn't a good deal. If you're like me and just want email, may I suggest checking out Fastmail.FM (http://www.fastmail.fm). I signed up the other day and they've provided a great service. I've got nothing to do with them, just a satisfied customer.

zedwards
Jul 31, 2002, 09:32 AM
1. What would the use of your own WebDav running on your computer be if the reason you have stuff on your iDisk is to back it up?

2. Sure, you can get a cheaper "service", you can also buy a barebones PC for $250...more power to you, well, maybe.

3. We all pay isp for whatever service it offers, which usually includes email addresses. So now you want yourname@mac.com also and for free??? Geesh! :)

4. Maybe what Apple has to loose are whiny customers who cannot accept that the world changes and things will not always be the same. They are not losing much by charging for a service that costs them money to run anyways.

fallt
Jul 31, 2002, 10:02 AM
Dear All,

Look on the box that comes with OS X (or at least the early adopter, buggy as hell version), it lists iTools as being an "integral part of the OS". So yes, when someone signs up for an @mac.com email account (I didn't by the way, just in case you think this is moaning on my part) and is then told they'll have to pay for that "integral service". Well, what does that say about Apple's integrity?

There's no doubt this will fizzle out, just like eWorld (remember that fiasco?) and Apple will end up looking like an idiot again.

Best,

Christopher

jg3
Jul 31, 2002, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by zedwards
1. What would the use of your own WebDav running on your computer be if the reason you have stuff on your iDisk is to back it up?

That would be pointless, but that's not why I was asking. I have a server which runs my web site (on Darwin), and I would like to set up a WebDAV volume so that when iCal comes out, I can tell it to publish to there, and then it will show up on my site. If I can do that without too much hassle, that knocks out the only thing I would possibly worry about needing a .Mac account for (not that I would get one just for that anyway - it simply doesn't fill any needs I have in a substantial way).

dwishbone
Jul 31, 2002, 01:42 PM
i dont really dislike the fact its not free anymore (who am i kidding i hate it) but to more of the fact of how they went about it and lack of payment options. i would care alot less about paying $8.33 a month than $100 in one big sum. I am a current iTools user so I can get it for $49.95 so right before my free trial runs out I will subscribe. Myabe they will have got off the crack and done some serious thinking before this time next year. if they havnt...bye bye .Mac

Snowy_River
Jul 31, 2002, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by Pants


apple for one has lost my ongoing loyalty and advocacy

Remarkable how many fair-weather friends it turns out Apple has. So long as things are rosey, and Apple is giving you stuff for free, then you'll be an advocate. Phooey.

I love Apple, and always have, for the quality of their hardware and their software. I'm not terribly happy about the move from iTools to .Mac, but, as such, I'm not going to pay for it. If enough people don't pay, maybe Apple will lower their price. (I still won't pay for it, but maybe some others will. I just don't need it.) I have absolutely no gripes about paying for things that I use. If it isn't worth the money, then I won't use it. If it is, then I'll pay for it.

. o O (I do get tired of whiners...)

jg3
Aug 3, 2002, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by jg3
I have a server which runs my web site (on Darwin), and I would like to set up a WebDAV volume so that when iCal comes out, I can tell it to publish to there, and then it will show up on my site.

If anyone cares, I figured out how to serve WebDAV volumes, and the setup is pretty darned easy. Just follow this FAQ (http://www.webdav.org/mod_dav/faq/) - you can practically cut and paste the important stuff. I'm all set for iCal now, yay!

cgmpowers
Aug 15, 2002, 11:49 AM
I totally agree that it offers great features for novice as well as pro users..

I travel a couple times a year for vacation (work trips too) and absolutely love my homepage because its REALLY EASY to publish photos and soon video with iMovie to your website so all can see.

I remember a few years ago (before iPhoto) when I was in florida, it just seemed to take too much time doing it in Dreamweaver--and then publishing that to my homepage..

I'm not a novice, and I consider myself VERY sauvy and even a bit of an expert of what I know, and iPhoto and iMovie intergrated with .Mac is priceless!

Christopher Powers

orangedv
Aug 18, 2002, 07:54 PM
This .Mac subject really burns me. Will all the muppets who think people who object to Apples pricing policy are 'whiners', kindly refrain from net sites that encourage debate on the subject.

The supporters of this policy are simply arguing past the objectors. The products included in .Mac may well be worth $99, the point is, WE DONT WANT THEM, JUST OUR DAMN EMAIL!

Do you "if steve jobs told me to jump off a cliff I would do it" brigade ever stop and think about Microsoft? They were threatened with company break up for integrating web software into Windows FOR FREE. Apple are trying the same stunt FOR MONEY!

Cant you see where this is going you idiots? How long before a large part of the functionality of osX is ONLY available in .MAC? Thats right, we have OS rental, coming soon, ON YOUR MAC. They are already saying "back up" will be part of .Mac. That is beyond scary.

I am so concerned about this, it goes beyond me simply not buying .Mac. I am telling friends to avoid apple products till this blows over.

Steve Jobs is being bloody arrogant, and saying your email address is for life, allowing you to use it, then charging for it when we were told it was free, sails very close to breaking trade description laws in my country.

daRAT
Aug 18, 2002, 08:24 PM
What I want to know, is 10.2 going to keep harping on me to buy ".mac" every time I start the OS, or start a app, such as imovie?

I'll be waiting to hear from users on this in the coming weeks. Is there anything I need in ".Mac" ? not a damn thing, ever. All I am waiting for is a the speed increase supposely in 10.2, thats why I have it on order.

Lets all whine, as the old saying goes, "the sqeaky wheel gets oiled". No complaining, no change and you will get shoved down your thoart what ever Apple, MS, Dell etc want.


Your Power = Complain, and hold off on purchases from the company that is makin' ya mad.

$$ IS power

my 2 bits :]

nuckinfutz
Aug 18, 2002, 09:46 PM
I fail to see ANY value in .mac - I already pay 30 quid to my isp per month for a broadband connection (without which .mac is useless anyway), for which i get an email address, more web space, and above all, a fast connection. ooh wow! anti virus software and back up software ! is this THE only value in .mac? The cheap money grabbing trick of charging for an otherwise free email address has really left a sour taste - apple for one has lost my ongoing loyalty and advocacy -

So don't buy .mac and Apple computers. What are they actually supposed to be "concerned" because YOU don't like .mac. Be as self absorbed as you want to but there ARE other Mac users.

and dont get me started on the 'added' value of jaguar, considering as an early adopter of osX I have already spent a small fortune on a hamstrung os , only to be told that I need to pay for a point release to get the damn thing to acceptable levels of performance. iChat? iCal? these 'toys' are worth 129 notes?


You silence about the other 147 features is deafening. If you don't like the price....DON'T BUY IT.


Look on the box that comes with OS X (or at least the early adopter, buggy as hell version), it lists iTools as being an "integral part of the OS".

No better yet why don't you read the Agreement for iTools. It never said it would be around indefinitely. Integrity in my book is a two way street. And Apple has made a fair deal. It's obvious that one loses integrity if they disagree with YOUR point of view. Howerver, Apples integrity is just fine in my book...so I guess I cancel you out don't I?




There's no doubt this will fizzle out, just like eWorld (remember that fiasco?) and Apple will end up looking like an idiot again.

Well they'd be following your lead. .mac = $99 per year...DEAL WITH IT.

The products included in .Mac may well be worth $99, the point is, WE DONT WANT THEM, JUST OUR DAMN EMAIL!

Well as of today "email" alone is not for sale.



Do you "if steve jobs told me to jump off a cliff I would do it" brigade ever stop and think about Microsoft? They were threatened with company break up for integrating web software into Windows FOR FREE. Apple are trying the same stunt FOR MONEY!

1. Microsoft must be wary of abusing it's monopoly
2. Apple doesn't add software that is difficult to delete.
3. You're making a big fool out of yourself with this inane logic.



Cant you see where this is going you idiots? How long before a large part of the functionality of osX is ONLY available in .MAC? Thats right, we have OS rental, coming soon, ON YOUR MAC. They are already saying "back up" will be part of .Mac. That is beyond scary.

Ummmmm I'll consider the source here. I can either trust Apple or listen to the raving of a madman on the Internet...boy I know which piece of advice I'm choosing:rolleyes:



I am so concerned about this, it goes beyond me simply not buying .Mac. I am telling friends to avoid apple products till this blows over.

Do they actually LISTEN to you???:confused:


Ok folks let's summarize.

Apple is not your parents.
They don't owe you anything that is not expressly written in an agreement.
If you don't like .mac...don't buy it. It's really very simple.
If your loyalty is attached to something as fickle as $10 you need to reassess your priorities.

I expect to see .mac hooks into all iapps. Choice is alway preferrable to none. I could see iMovie with .mac features to convert to mpeg4 and auto upload to your site.

This incessant wankerism must stop. It's one thing to make logical grievances but we're not your shrink nor are we here to console your hurt pride and pocketbook.

Apple will live or die based on the quality of features and services that they deliver to the MASSES. Your own self absorption and manipulation and projection of your whims and desires on your friends is disengenous and disgusting.

skunk
Aug 20, 2002, 08:52 AM
That was uncalled for. And it's "disingenuous"...