Hackintosh opinion

[Super_Saxy]

Hey all,

So I'm thinking about building a Hackintosh to cut costs of a Mac Pro. I plan on using the LifeHacker guide (http://lifehacker.com/5351485/how-to-build-a-hackintosh-with-snow-leopard-start-to-finish).

I was thinking of subbing out the quad core 3.0 GHz processor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115130&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-Processors%20-%20Desktops-_-Intel-_-19115130) for a slightly less expensive quad core 2.66 GHz processor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115057&cm_re=intel_core_2_quad-_-19-115-057-_-Product).

First question, this processor should sub in the LifeHacker build alright, correct?

Second, assuming the answer to my first question is "yes", difference in processing power (about .34 ghz) and the difference in size of the L2 cache (12MB in the 3.0 GHz and 4MB in the 2.66 GHz) worth saving $200?

Thanks in advance!

[Joewebster]

First question: Yes, you shouldn't have any problems.
Second question: I don't think it'll make too much of a difference, maybe the speed will be slightly slower, but not much.

[disconap]

General opinion of someone who has two hackintoshes and 4 regular macs--hacks are great for specific purposes, but they require a lot of work and knowledge to get running and keep running/updated. That knowledge is readily available online, but it's a matter of risk and time.

The example:

I set up our server as a hackintosh because I wanted a VERY low power consumption fileserver. I bought all the parts on newegg (an Atom 330, which uses 8W max, as the primary processor). It took me 3 days of work to get it all running the way I need it to, and it doesn't update easily, it requires work every time a new update comes out. Which is fine for something that is just going to sit and run (and, for many intents and purposes, run as a NAS), and I may eventually just put Ubuntu Server on it anyway; when it comes down to replacing my G5 with a new workstation, I will UNDOUBTEDLY buy a Mac, because the time lost on actual work setting it up and the chances that something could go wrong are not, not worth the even $500-1000 difference to me.

To break it down even simpler, when I have a job running I make anywhere between $20-50/hour, sometimes more. I had the free days to build this server; if I had a job running during that time, the $300 or so difference between what I built and buying a mac mini would equal roughly 10 hours of work, or one day. Since it took me 3 to really get everything set the way that I wanted it to, it really would have cost me $600 or so more to build the hackintosh than to just buy a mac. And I'd have a reliable, upgradeable (software-wise), dependable machine.

So it's really up to you. If you're set on doing it, it's pretty fun (though I advise spending the $30 on the Snow Leopard disc, it's cheap and if you're going to use it, you should buy it IMO), but keep in mind that you won't know what you'll end up with until you're done, whereas just buying the mac you know what you're getting.

And on the processor question, yeah, I agree with the last poster, the difference between 2.66 and 3.0 isn't much, especially considering the overclocking potential of a hacked system. But you won't notice it much outside of intensive HD video editing or hardcore animation rendering...

[Super_Saxy]

Thanks for the quick responses.

I have a good bit of hackintosh experience (mostly laptops and netbooks), so I'm not too scared of the work that will need to go into it. My basic purpose is that I need something with the power of a Mac Pro (I do high end audio and visual work), but I just don't have the money to drop on one.

[BillB50]

Thanks for the quick responses.

I have a good bit of hackintosh experience (mostly laptops and netbooks), so I'm not too scared of the work that will need to go into it. My basic purpose is that I need something with the power of a Mac Pro (I do high end audio and visual work), but I just don't have the money to drop on one.


When building a desktop, save yourself a very large headache and spend some time on Stellarola's blog. You will save hours upon hours of extra work by purchasing hardware that is close to apple spec - i.e. most desktop Hacks are built on Gigabyte motherboards (my guess, but I built one using this platform) - specifically GA-EP45-UD3P - this board has the same on-board audio, same ICH10 southbridge and will require the least amount of kexts to get it running. Stel is a master at building DSDT files for this platform. You can also get ATI or NVidia cards to work quite easily and for considerably less money.

Take the time to research...

[disconap]

Agreed. Googling specifics can take forever so it's best to find a solid tutorial and run with it, then fix any problems later. There's one that is simple and to the point, it helped me out immensely (mostly just for the proper order to do things in, as I was already doing most of it). Not sure how kosher it is to post a link to it in this forum, but it's on infinitemac and was started by SaCleoCheater.

Also, with DSDT files, make sure you even need one first, as I was able to get the server built without creating one, but it may be necessary depending on your hardware.

[lemonade-maker]

Having built many hacks, you are in the wrong forum. http://insanelymac.com

[300D]

Its illegal
Its immoral
It demonstrates that you're too cheap/poor to buy the real thing

[Nostromo]

General opinion of someone who has two hackintoshes and 4 regular macs--hacks are great for specific purposes, but they require a lot of work and knowledge to get running and keep running/updated. That knowledge is readily available online, but it's a matter of risk and time.



I was thinking of it once. Then found out this is something who likes to work on the computer all the time.

I prefer working with the computer and the advantage of hasslefree operation.

[Cindori]

check out my sig

[Spanky Deluxe]

Its illegal
Its immoral
It demonstrates that you're too cheap/poor to buy the real thing

It isn't illegal. It isn't immoral provided you buy licenses and the third point is just plain snobbery.

[300D]

It isn't illegal. It isn't immoral provided you buy licenses

That is false information. It says right there in the license agreement that it cannot be installed on non-apple hardware.

[Cindori]

let 300d rant how much he wants, he obviously can't stand the fact that with a couple of days of tinkering you can get a stable rig outperforming the Mac Pro at half the cost. Hey, with the 09 mac and the audio cpu bug, i'd even call my hackintosh more stable then the mac pro.

the argument "It demonstrates that you're too cheap/poor to buy the real thing" as If you are lesser being for not having the funds... plz mr elitist, get out of the forums. ;)

[parakiet]

That is false information. It says right there in the license agreement that it cannot be installed on non-apple hardware.

no discussion when you don't buy a os X version.

license agreement go only 'that' far. international/national law overrules those agreements anyway
so yes, there is a big discussion on that topic.

[300D]

let 300d rant how much he wants, he obviously can't stand the fact that poor people with a couple of days of unemployment can get a cheap rig outperforming the Mac Mini at half the cost.
Yep, thats it to a T

as If you are lesser being for not having the funds
Not at all. I believe McDonalds managers are people too!

no discussion when you don't buy a os X version.
Which would be....Windows, linux, unix, OS9?

license agreement go only 'that' far.
Just the installation and use of the OS, you know, everything its made to do.
international/national law overrules those agreements anyway
Good for those living outside the US, all 2% of them on these forums.

[Cindori]

Gregory if you're interested I have a pretty detailed guide to my build here:
http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=204010

It's basically as easy as the Lifehacker one :D

[bbadalucco]

It demonstrates that you're too cheap/poor to buy the real thing

Coming from the guy with a G5, update that thing you cheap ass...why are you here anyway?

[Super_Saxy]

Cindori and everyone else, thanks for all the support.

I agree. Not because I'm too cheap. Actually, I'm a struggling audio engineer, and would love the power of a Mac Pro type of system. However, as the name "struggling audio engineer" implies, I don't have the money to drop on a mac pro.

Let me further clarify for those who will jump all over the "struggling audio engineer". In the audio world, you work your tail off for years making barely any money just with the hope of getting better opportunities. And then of course you have the paradox that good gear is necessary for high quality audio work. However, in order to get this high quality gear, you have to make really good money, which you don't because engineers who are starting out barely make enough money to live.

Greg

[300D]

Coming from the guy with a G5, update that thing you cheap ass.
Its called "intelligence". You don't drop $5,000 on a computer and trade it in every few years.

why are you here anyway?
I've been here far longer than you. I'm here to help people with their problems and make the right choice.

I agree. Not because I'm too cheap. Actually, I'm a struggling audio engineer, and would love the power of a Mac Pro type of system. However, as the name "struggling audio engineer" implies, I don't have the money to drop on a mac pro.
That is my point exactly.

[zmttoxics]

I've been here far longer than you. I'm here to help people with their problems and make the right choice.


I am fairly certain Jan comes before May.

In either case, there are tons of threads on this topic. I think some forum searching is in order.

My only opinion is to make sure the C2Q cpu you get supports VT-x.

[NoSmokingBandit]

OP:
I have the q8400 in my current hack (that im typing this on right now), and its a speedy little processor considering the price. I'd go for it.

[Spanky Deluxe]

That is false information. It says right there in the license agreement that it cannot be installed on non-apple hardware.

No it doesn't. You're the one supplying false information.

Leopard's licensing agreement says "You agree not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-labeled computer, or to enable others to do so." - Interestingly, Apple included two Apple stick on labels in the box though.

Snow Leopard's licensing agreement is identical except the word "labeled" has been changed to "branded". If you believe in the legality of the EULA then you can shrink proof yourself by buying a faulty old PowerMac G4 and build a hackintosh into the case. It will be genuinely Apple labeled/branded and if you have the original restore disks too then you can get around the other thing that hackintosh haters like to throw around which is that OS X boxed editions are only upgrade licenses since all macs come with OS X to start with.

[nanofrog]

No it doesn't. You're the one supplying false information.

Leopard's licensing agreement says "You agree not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-labeled computer, or to enable others to do so." - Interestingly, Apple included two Apple stick on labels in the box though.

Snow Leopard's licensing agreement is identical except the word "labeled" has been changed to "branded". If you believe in the legality of the EULA then you can shrink proof yourself by buying a faulty old PowerMac G4 and build a hackintosh into the case. It will be genuinely Apple labeled/branded and if you have the original restore disks too then you can get around the other thing that hackintosh haters like to throw around which is that OS X boxed editions are only upgrade licenses since all macs come with OS X to start with.
I like your thinking. :D

Psystar got nailed on Copyright Infringement, as they were making a profit (or attempting to) from what they were doing, unlike an individual doing it for their own personal use. Copyright /= EULA being challenged head-on in a court system. Software vendors are terrified of that prospect, and why Apple filed for Copyright Infringement in the first place.

Your methodology should be adequate to satisfy the EULA's language, if it ever does come into the court system and is supported in it's entirety.

[Nostromo]

Cindori and everyone else, thanks for all the support.

I agree. Not because I'm too cheap. Actually, I'm a struggling audio engineer, and would love the power of a Mac Pro type of system. However, as the name "struggling audio engineer" implies, I don't have the money to drop on a mac pro.

Let me further clarify for those who will jump all over the "struggling audio engineer". In the audio world, you work your tail off for years making barely any money just with the hope of getting better opportunities. And then of course you have the paradox that good gear is necessary for high quality audio work. However, in order to get this high quality gear, you have to make really good money, which you don't because engineers who are starting out barely make enough money to live.

Greg

Don't worry, Greg.

Even the Apple Pope would give you the thumbs up. And why should Steve Jobs worry about someone wanting to have an Apple computer so much that he goes through the hassle of building one himself?

Much better than you going on the other side and buying a PC rig. And stay on the PC side once you have made it.

This way he'll at least be able to sell you an expensive Mac Pro a few years down the line.

We all wish you luck with your endeavors. Just make sure you prepare your build well so you don't run into snags.

[disconap]

Cindori and everyone else, thanks for all the support.

I agree. Not because I'm too cheap. Actually, I'm a struggling audio engineer, and would love the power of a Mac Pro type of system. However, as the name "struggling audio engineer" implies, I don't have the money to drop on a mac pro.

Let me further clarify for those who will jump all over the "struggling audio engineer". In the audio world, you work your tail off for years making barely any money just with the hope of getting better opportunities. And then of course you have the paradox that good gear is necessary for high quality audio work. However, in order to get this high quality gear, you have to make really good money, which you don't because engineers who are starting out barely make enough money to live.

Greg


Oooh, no, no, no then. I HIGHLY suggest if you are building a rig for a recording environment that you do NOT make it a hackintosh. Reliability is pretty important when a band is paying you by the hour.

If you want a cheaper rig for recording I suggest sticking with Windows or Linux, OR picking up an older Mac. The advantages of buying a Mac Pro are pretty much lost on audio engineering anyway, a straight 24 or 32 bit signal is a straight 24 or 32 bit signal regardless of whether it's recorded on a G3 or a Mac Pro. We still use a souped up Sawtooth for our recording/mixing (see sig) and it's perfect. We spent the money that would have gone into a new computer on mics and never even looked back.

[300D]

Interestingly, Apple included two Apple stick on labels in the box though.
That is false information. A sticker does not constitute branding. If thats the case then throw a Bentley sticker on your Kia and suddenly you've got a genuine Bentley? Yeah, that makes a LOT of sense.

If you believe in the legality of the EULA then you can shrink proof yourself by buying a faulty old PowerMac G4 and build a hackintosh into the case. It will be genuinely Apple labeled/branded
More false information. Again, throw a Kia engine in your Mercedes and its still powered by a Kia no matter how you wish otherwise.

You would make an extremely poor lawyer.

Psystar got nailed on Copyright Infringement, as they were making a profit (or attempting to) from what they were doing, unlike an individual doing it for their own personal use.
That is also false information. They were making multiple copies from a single OS DVD.

Copyright /= EULA being challenged head-on in a court system. By losers who can't make things on their own so they resort to theft of other people's work.

why Apple filed for Copyright Infringement in the first place. Also incorrect. They filed simply because somebody was making a profit of their work. If you made something and somebody stole it, made copies and sold it as their own device, wouldn't you be a little ticked off?

Your methodology should be adequate to satisfy the EULA's language Not even remotely.

[Spanky Deluxe]

I never said a sticker constitutes branding. A sticker constitutes labelling however, which is all that is required for Leopard's EULA. Snow Leopard's EULA requires branding, however. Sure, throw a Kia engine in a Mercedes and it's still powered by a Kia - however, it is still branded as a Mercedes.

If you want a car example then the Qvick Mini Cooper S3 springs to mind. Under Belgium's Endurance Championship rules, teams were allowed to replace the engines with any other engine from the same manufacturer. Since the car's official manufacturer was "Mini" and not "BMW" even though the car was built by BMW, they had to root around in the engine bay until they found one small BMW logo. That small logo was enough though.

I don't imagine you'd change your mind though since you've made it pretty obvious that you are incapable of doing so.

[codymac]

Oooh, no, no, no then. I HIGHLY suggest if you are building a rig for a recording environment that you do NOT make it a hackintosh. Reliability is pretty important when a band is paying you by the hour.

Done correctly and following the guide the OP mentioned, it's dead nuts reliable - mine has been every bit as reliable as my Macs.

[300D]

I never said a sticker constitutes branding.
Thats clearly what you insinuated.

Since the car's official manufacturer was "Mini"
False. Mini is a sub-brand of BMW, like Buick is to GM or Mercury is to Ford.

since I've made it pretty obvious that I am incapable of doing so
You certainly have.

[Spanky Deluxe]

Thats clearly what you insinuated.


False. Mini is a sub-brand of BMW, like Buick is to GM or Mercury is to Ford.


You certainly have.

It seems you are incapable of reading. Never mind, trolls will be trolls.

[disconap]

Done correctly and following the guide the OP mentioned, it's dead nuts reliable - mine has been every bit as reliable as my Macs.

Has. Thus far. For your uses. Right. Can't agree more, my Atom hackintosh hasn't failed as a file server yet and my netbook is rock solid. But again, for their uses they work fine.

Are you using it in a studio? With all the specific hardware and software, the constant 8-16 hours/day heavy use, and know that it will all work constantly without fail? It's irresponsible to take a risk like that in a production environment, a professional wouldn't risk it.

[nanofrog]

That is also false information. They were making multiple copies from a single OS DVD.
"On November 27, 2008 Apple claimed "Psystar violated the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA)..."

DMCA violation = Copyright Infringement

(Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psystar_Corporation)).

By losers who can't make things on their own so they resort to theft of other people's work.
None of what they did was based on their own work. They took the OS from Apple, and the methodology from others improperly as well.

Also incorrect. They filed simply because somebody was making a profit of their work. If you made something and somebody stole it, made copies and sold it as their own device, wouldn't you be a little ticked off?
That's what Copyright Infringement is. :rolleyes: They don't have permission or licensing agreement to reproduce and sell others property (printed or media such as music or images).

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement).

Not even remotely.
It's worked in other instances, i.e. MS for example (allowed users to utilize Upgrade licenses rather than Retail, such as carrying over a drive from a previous system). The law has to apply equally to others as well. Apple has no special privliges in this regard.

You seem to thing EULA = Law, going by various posts you've made in multiple threads. It does NOT. It's a contract, and unchallenged in a court. So there's no hard and set rules as to what language is or is not acceptable from a legal standpoint.

[codymac]

Has. Thus far. For your uses. Right. Can't agree more, my Atom hackintosh hasn't failed as a file server yet and my netbook is rock solid. But again, for their uses they work fine.

Are you using it in a studio? With all the specific hardware and software, the constant 8-16 hours/day heavy use, and know that it will all work constantly without fail? It's irresponsible to take a risk like that in a production environment, a professional wouldn't risk it.

True.

Yeah, I'm using the "hell out of it" - mostly as a guest for various VMs as I'm a Unix geek by day. Professional kind of comes into an interpretive thing in the OP's case, IMHO and it sounds like a compromise that may work for him, depending on his technical background.

Studio? No... when I tore apart my studio, Mac Pros didn't exist. I was using a Quadra back then.
;)

[giffut]

... in Germany, any contract must be readable BEFORE the customer purchases the product. Regarding retail OSX boxes, the EULA obviously isn´t printed outside of the box, therefore you can´t read it before you purchase it. Result: It´s void, plain simple. There are no provisions to read it via WWW before you enter the store, as the contract must be tied to the product, so to speak.

So: If you purchase OSX, you are good to go Hackintosh. If you don´t, it´s not the EULA, but Copyright Infringement anyway.

But what I, like many others, strongly believe: Apple doesn´t want to fight this, because anyone on a hackintosh sooner or later buys Apple - iPods and iPhones etc. included. If it´s a problem of funds, it just takes more time, but the customer grows on them.

[Spanky Deluxe]

... in Germany, any contract must be readable BEFORE the customer purchases the product. Regarding retail OSX boxes, the EULA obviously isn´t printed outside of the box, therefore you can´t read it before you purchase it. Result: It´s void, plain simple. There are no provisions to read it via WWW before you enter the store, as the contract must be tied to the product, so to speak.

So: If you purchase OSX, you are good to go Hackintosh. If you don´t, it´s not the EULA, but Copyright Infringement anyway.

But what I, like many others, strongly believe: Apple doesn´t want to fight this, because anyone on a hackintosh sooner or later buys Apple - iPods and iPhones etc. included. If it´s a problem of funds, it just takes more time, but the customer grows on them.

I love the Germans. :D

Exactly, Apple doesn't (or at least shouldn't) fight too hard against the hackintosh scene. Of course they should stop anyone else making a profit off of their work - e.g. Psystar. If you look through the InsanelyMac forums you can see that a LOT of the original hackintosh makers went on to buy MacBooks etc.

When Apple announced that they would be transferring to Intel chips I was immediately very interested in switching from Windows. I played around with the original Tiger Development Transition kit. While back then I couldn't get good enough video acceleration for it to be usable full time, it did convince me that OSX was the way to go. An Intel Mac Mini followed to run side by side with my PC. My Dell laptop got replaced with an iBook G4. My PC and Mac Mini were then replaced by a Mac Pro when they were released. Three or four years later and I've bought two Mac Minis, two iBooks, two MacBooks, one MacBook Pro, one MacBook Air, one iMac, five iPhones, a Mac Pro and a 30" Apple Cinema Display. All of that because I originally played with a hackintosh.

I've now returned to the hackintosh scene with a machine to replace my Mac Pro since I needed something more powerful and Apple's pricing structure on their Mac Pro line is out of control and for me unjustifiable.

[Super_Saxy]

Are you using it in a studio? With all the specific hardware and software, the constant 8-16 hours/day heavy use, and know that it will all work constantly without fail? It's irresponsible to take a risk like that in a production environment, a professional wouldn't risk it.

I'm using it in my home studio. I work for a company where I do remote classical recordings. For that I have my 17" PowerBook thats been like a tank. I use Logic, the Apogee ensemble, and am getting Milennia pres soon. I use my company's mics, usually a stereo pair of Neumann 184s and two AKG 414s for omnis. For really high end jobs, I'll use a pair of Schoepps.

I'll be using this hackintosh mostly for mastering and mixing. No real heavy duty tracking.

Professional kind of comes into an interpretive thing in the OP's case, IMHO and it sounds like a compromise that may work for him, depending on his technical background.

Studio? No... when I tore apart my studio, Mac Pros didn't exist. I was using a Quadra back then.
;)

I'm thinking that its going to be a good compromise. Of course I'd ideally like a Mac Pro, but from all the research that I've done, as long as I prepare very carefully and follow a quality build, I shouldn't run into too many problems.

Greg

[nanofrog]

I love the Germans. :D

Exactly, Apple doesn't (or at least shouldn't) fight too hard against the hackintosh scene. Of course they should stop anyone else making a profit off of their work - e.g. Psystar. If you look through the InsanelyMac forums you can see that a LOT of the original hackintosh makers went on to buy MacBooks etc.

When Apple announced that they would be transferring to Intel chips I was immediately very interested in switching from Windows. I played around with the original Tiger Development Transition kit. While back then I couldn't get good enough video acceleration for it to be usable full time, it did convince me that OSX was the way to go. An Intel Mac Mini followed to run side by side with my PC. My Dell laptop got replaced with an iBook G4. My PC and Mac Mini were then replaced by a Mac Pro when they were released. Three or four years later and I've bought two Mac Minis, two iBooks, two MacBooks, one MacBook Pro, one MacBook Air, one iMac, five iPhones, a Mac Pro and a 30" Apple Cinema Display. All of that because I originally played with a hackintosh.

I've now returned to the hackintosh scene with a machine to replace my Mac Pro since I needed something more powerful and Apple's pricing structure on their Mac Pro line is out of control and for me unjustifiable.
Exactly.

Even students using pirated copies of professional software in order to learn during their uni days, will end up either purchasing it once they become working professionals. So it actually can benefit the original vendors quite substantially, especially when such an individual is responsible for an entire company's software package planning and purchasing. Even if they only purchase a single copy for themselves, they tend to become loyal customers and purchase multiple revisions throughout their careers. It still adds up, and there's a good chance there's word-of-mouth advertising involved as well.

Making a profit by selling other's IP without permission is a different story. That's where I see a clear difference between Psystar and individual users, and apparently, you're of a similar mind.

[Super_Saxy]

Exactly.

Even students using pirated copies of professional software in order to learn during their uni days, will end up either purchasing it once they become working professionals. So it actually can benefit the original vendors quite substantially, especially when such an individual is responsible for an entire company's software package planning and purchasing. Even if they only purchase a single copy for themselves, they tend to become loyal customers and purchase multiple revisions throughout their careers. It still adds up, and there's a good chance there's word-of-mouth advertising involved as well.

Making a profit by selling other's IP without permission is a different story. That's where I see a clear difference between Psystar and individual users, and apparently, you're of a similar mind.

I totally agree with you. How else was I, as a college student studying the recording arts, supposed to learn all the various software programs out there? Rather than fight with other students over precious studio time just to use it for learning how to use the software, I just downloaded a pirated version, so I could learn on my own.

[BaldiMac]

I totally agree with you. How else was I, as a college student studying the recording arts, supposed to learn all the various software programs out there? Rather than fight with other students over precious studio time just to use it for learning how to use the software, I just downloaded a pirated version, so I could learn on my own.

Exactly! And how are we supposed to learn to use all of the different hardware involved without stealing them! After we figure out which one we like and make "enough" money, then we can buy one legally!

[nanofrog]

I totally agree with you. How else was I, as a college student studying the recording arts, supposed to learn all the various software programs out there? Rather than fight with other students over precious studio time just to use it for learning how to use the software, I just downloaded a pirated version, so I could learn on my own.
That's my point.

Universities tend not to have adequate equipment for students to use, so it ends up being difficult at best to have enough time to learn/complete assignments. They rely on students having their own equipment. Computer's aren't optional resources, but required these days, including any specialty software or hardware needed for such a system.

There are a few exceptions, but that tends to be non-computer equipment or is just beyond what a student can afford in my experience (i.e. tens of $k or more).

Exactly! And how are we supposed to learn to use all of the different hardware involved without stealing them! After we figure out which one we like and make "enough" money, then we can buy one legally!
Hardware is much harder, and usually has to be paid for. That's not really justifiable, and I'm having a hard time trying to think up of the details (not sure how one would even be able to steal such things, assuming it's not commonly available, such as capture cards of some sort).

What I do recall, we built what we needed or bought used when possible (i.e. electronics kits, free designs now available on the web, or used equipment market for engineering though). Professors even provided designs and BOM's in some cases (equipment), and arranged group purchases through suppliers on occasion.

[BaldiMac]

Hardware is much harder, and usually has to be paid for. That's not really justifiable, and I'm having a hard time trying to think up of the details (not sure how one would even be able to steal such things, assuming it's not commonly available, such as capture cards of some sort).

What I do recall, we built what we needed or bought used when possible (i.e. electronics kits, free designs now available on the web, or used equipment market for engineering though). Professors even provided designs and BOM's in some cases (equipment), and arranged group purchases through suppliers on occasion.

No, I'm talking about the full studio equipment. Rather than fight with other students over precious studio time just to use it for learning how to use the equipment, I could just break in after hours, so I could learn on my own. Or just steal the equipment and set up my own studio, so I could learn on my own.

[nanofrog]

No, I'm talking about the full studio equipment. Rather than fight with other students over precious studio time just to use it for learning how to use the equipment, I could just break in after hours, so I could learn on my own. Or just steal the equipment and set up my own studio, so I could learn on my own.
I recall labs had gone to 24/7 access for equipment in most departments in order to allow students availability.

As per taking the equipment (uni property), that not only hurts others by denying access to it, but could get you arrested and prevent you from ever graduating and a career in your field. :eek: :p

[BaldiMac]

I recall labs had gone to 24/7 access for equipment in most departments in order to allow students availability.

Really? Even on my campus? Does that mean I would have to break in to one of the private or commercial studios in the area to avoid fighting with other students over studio time?

As per taking the equipment (uni property), that not only hurts others by denying access to it, but could get you arrested and prevent you from ever graduating and a career in your field. :eek: :p

But denying somebody their rights to their property is justifiable as long as I am not trying to make a profit, right?

[BaldiMac]

... in Germany, any contract must be readable BEFORE the customer purchases the product. Regarding retail OSX boxes, the EULA obviously isn´t printed outside of the box, therefore you can´t read it before you purchase it. Result: It´s void, plain simple. There are no provisions to read it via WWW before you enter the store, as the contract must be tied to the product, so to speak.

The mythical German copyright loophole!

Without a license agreement, what gives you the right to install OS X?

What gives you the right to modify OS X in order to install it on a non-Mac?

What gives you the right to install updates (such as 10.6.1, etc.) that carry their own separate SLA that you must agree to before installation?

Why do no major software companies print their SLA on the outside of the box in Germany? Are their lawyers all idiots with a lesser understanding of German copyright law than you?

What about the text that IS printed on the box? Paraphrasing... "Requirements: Mac" and "Sale is dependent on acceptance of SLA."

[disconap]

I'm using it in my home studio. I work for a company where I do remote classical recordings. For that I have my 17" PowerBook thats been like a tank. I use Logic, the Apogee ensemble, and am getting Milennia pres soon. I use my company's mics, usually a stereo pair of Neumann 184s and two AKG 414s for omnis. For really high end jobs, I'll use a pair of Schoepps.

I'll be using this hackintosh mostly for mastering and mixing. No real heavy duty tracking.


I still don't suggest it; in fact, if your hardware is Firewire or USB, you'd probably be WAY better off spending the money on a mini and an SSD or two. For the same cost as a high end hackintosh, you could end up with a lower end iMac or a mini-server, two 30gb SSDs striped into a raid0 for the main drive (or 60gb if you happened to hit the Shell Shocker deal at NewEgg this morning), and a FW800 enclosure with 4 1TB (or whatever you'd need) drives striped however you need for speed and backup. Then again, if you trust that your hack will be stable, you can achieve the same thing in the box and have more power. Again it's a professional thing; if you're doing light work, recording your own band, or just wanting to learn, then it sounds like a great idea. If it is going into a full-time production environment, I personally would see it as a bad, bad call, mostly because you're taking a risk you don't need to since you aren't going to see much of a difference in audio engineering between a mini and a Mac Pro (or hack). If you do go that route, sincerest good luck, though, and definitely check out Cindori's guide on the forums (as well as infintemac and insanelymac). :)

[Spanky Deluxe]

I still don't suggest it; in fact, if your hardware is Firewire or USB, you'd probably be WAY better off spending the money on a mini and an SSD or two. For the same cost as a high end hackintosh, you could end up with a lower end iMac or a mini-server, two 30gb SSDs striped into a raid0 for the main drive (or 60gb if you happened to hit the Shell Shocker deal at NewEgg this morning), and a FW800 enclosure with 4 1TB (or whatever you'd need) drives striped however you need for speed and backup. Then again, if you trust that your hack will be stable, you can achieve the same thing in the box and have more power. Again it's a professional thing; if you're doing light work, recording your own band, or just wanting to learn, then it sounds like a great idea. If it is going into a full-time production environment, I personally would see it as a bad, bad call, mostly because you're taking a risk you don't need to since you aren't going to see much of a difference in audio engineering between a mini and a Mac Pro (or hack). If you do go that route, sincerest good luck, though, and definitely check out Cindori's guide on the forums (as well as infintemac and insanelymac). :)

The concept that hackintoshes are unstable just isn't true. A bit of research beforehand and a willingness to learn the meaning of kexts and you're there. I use my hackintosh to run complex simulations for work. Instead of buying a new Mac Pro at a stupidly inflated price, I built a hackintosh that is close to twice as fast processor wise, has oodles of memory and has a large SSD boot and app drive.

[glossywhite]

Its illegal
Its immoral
It demonstrates that you're too cheap/poor to buy the real thing

I think you could have somehow phrased that a little more politely, but I agree. You say it like it is a bad thing to be poor... like it is a character defect - that came across as rude, even though you may not have meant it to.

It isn't illegal. It isn't immoral provided you buy licenses and the third point is just plain snobbery.

I'm sorry to break it to you but it is illegal - you may as well just save a little longer and buy a Mac Pro, even a 2008 refurb - they SCREAM, whereas a Hackintosh just screams "cheap imitation". If you want to use a Mac, and are being paid to do a job which, by all intents and purposes, suggests to the client that you are a Mac owner but in fact are not, then the only person you're fooling is you. This is hilarious - dude, just save and get one ffs, although money is tight. How laughable!.

[NoSmokingBandit]

OP:
Since this thread has been derailed (more quickly than most threads, kudos macrumors!) feel free to send me a pm if you have hackintosh questions. I have 3 hacks in my house at the moment, and i've helped many other people build/install, so i know a little about whats going on.


you may as well just save a little longer and buy a Mac Pro, even a 2008 refurb - they SCREAM, whereas a Hackintosh just screams "cheap imitation".

How is running full, plain OSX an imitation? The hardware you say? Oh yes, i'd rather spend more and get less performance from a mac instead of building my own. The apple stamp on the side makes that big of a difference, eh?

[Spanky Deluxe]

I'm sorry to break it to you but it is illegal - you may as well just save a little longer and buy a Mac Pro, even a 2008 refurb - they SCREAM, whereas a Hackintosh just screams "cheap imitation". If you want to use a Mac, and are being paid to do a job which, by all intents and purposes, suggests to the client that you are a Mac owner but in fact are not, then the only person you're fooling is you. This is hilarious - dude, just save and get one ffs, although money is tight. How laughable!.

It isn't illegal. The EULA has not stood up in court as being legally binding yet anyway. Why would I want to save up my money to buy a Mac Pro when they're currently insanely overpriced? The hardware in the 2.66GHz Quad Mac Pro is about $1000 overpriced (Dell sells virtually the same machine for $1389). I could not buy a Mac Pro with the same performance as what I've built down no matter how much I paid. The only thing I'm going without now compared to the W3xxx processor based workstations is ECC memory support, which frankly, I can live quite happily without.

Why would I need to suggest to clients that I am a Mac owner? What kind of a fool gets work based on what their computers look like?

[DoFoT9]

That's my point.

Universities tend not to have adequate equipment for students to use, so it ends up being difficult at best to have enough time to learn/complete assignments. They rely on students having their own equipment. Computer's aren't optional resources, but required these days, including any specialty software or hardware needed for such a system.

There are a few exceptions, but that tends to be non-computer equipment or is just beyond what a student can afford in my experience (i.e. tens of $k or more).



dont come to our uni then! 3+ year old computers...terrible internet (that we pay for).. software that is old (e.g. must be emulated! :eek:) and pathetic..

i torrent software, it makes it so easy for us students to do the required work.

p.s. take a breather nano ;)

[glossywhite]

It isn't illegal. The EULA has not stood up in court as being legally binding yet anyway. Why would I want to save up my money to buy a Mac Pro when they're currently insanely overpriced? The hardware in the 2.66GHz Quad Mac Pro is about $1000 overpriced (Dell sells virtually the same machine for $1389). I could not buy a Mac Pro with the same performance as what I've built down no matter how much I paid. The only thing I'm going without now compared to the W3xxx processor based workstations is ECC memory support, which frankly, I can live quite happily without.

Why would I need to suggest to clients that I am a Mac owner? What kind of a fool gets work based on what their computers look like?

Use linux then... buy a G5... ya know?.

Do what you like. Goodbye.

[nanofrog]

Really? Even on my campus? Does that mean I would have to break in to one of the private or commercial studios in the area to avoid fighting with other students over studio time?
If your school doesn't, try discussing it with the department head, as you'd have a logical argument. At least it could get the hours extended, if not 24/7.

But denying somebody their rights to their property is justifiable as long as I am not trying to make a profit, right?
If you take the equipment, you prevent others from using it, as there's only that object. That's not the case with software, as it's not physical in nature, but information. Slight, but important difference between physical and intellectual property. Both are theft in a legal sense, but one causes real harm, rather than potential profit loss (presumption of lost sales).

dont come to our uni then! 3+ year old computers...terrible internet (that we pay for).. software that is old (e.g. must be emulated! :eek:) and pathetic..
That's not uncommon from what I've seen. Students get access to left-over, ancient equipment. Software as well, as it's too old to run newer applications, even if the budget is there.

i torrent software, it makes it so easy for us students to do the required work.
I'm not arguing with this. I see it as a result of need, lack of resources provided by the educational institution, and lack of funds to purchase a license.

The assignments are due regardless, and students will do what they need to in order to get them done (last second procrastination or not :p). ;)

[Spanky Deluxe]

Use linux then... buy a G5... ya know?.

Do what you like. Goodbye.

Why use linux when I can legally use OS X? A G5 is wayyyyyy to slow for my needs. I replaced my existing 2006 Mac Pro with a hackintosh because it was too slow too.

Why are you in this thread anyway?

[jjahshik32]

My personal opinion about Hackint0sh is:

Been there, done that, NOT WORTH IT.

Nothing beats the original. My conclusion is that I rather run windows on pc's. OSX just seems too broken under any Hackint0sh. Especially the sleep functions and the kernel panics.

Save money and buy a real mac. You only live once. :)

[disconap]

The concept that hackintoshes are unstable just isn't true. A bit of research beforehand and a willingness to learn the meaning of kexts and you're there. I use my hackintosh to run complex simulations for work. Instead of buying a new Mac Pro at a stupidly inflated price, I built a hackintosh that is close to twice as fast processor wise, has oodles of memory and has a large SSD boot and app drive.

Again, I have two of them, and again I don't hate them, but for a professional environment it is irresponsible to use non-supported hardware/software together, there is too much risk of things going wrong.

You can have your hackintosh and it can be totally stable forever. Or it could stop working entirely with 10.6.3. Then in six months the proprietary software needed for your studio might only support 10.6.3 or higher. It's just not worth it if your living depends on it is all that I'm saying here.

[glossywhite]

If you use Hackintosh as a substitute for buying a real Mac, you fail. Period.

I cannot take people like you seriously - you're a fool to yourself dude.

[DoFoT9]

That's not uncommon from what I've seen. Students get access to left-over, ancient equipment. Software as well, as it's too old to run newer applications, even if the budget is there.

our uni isnt small by any means - its currently building a $1billion Aus hospital (half funded by the government). but we have P4 computers running XP and office 2000. it seems that all departments but the IT ones get upgrades.

I'm not arguing with this. I see it as a result of need, lack of resources provided by the educational institution, and lack of funds to purchase a license.
correct-o! even for the basic M$ office it costs a good $100 for the student version. if you dont have a printer you must pay to print at uni. its a lose-lose situation for us no matter what.

The assignments are due regardless, and students will do what they need to in order to get them done (last second procrastination or not :p). ;)
;) :rolleyes: :D unless it is a written report/assignment, i am pretty much guaranteed that i will have to find some particular software for the assignment. whether it be to create flow charts, map out particular things, create images, databases etc i will have to find it. the software wont be given to us.

anyway, opposing jjahshik32's post - hackintoshes are incredible. mine was well worth the investment!

glossy, who are you to say who is right and who is wrong with their OWN choices? correctly built a hackintosh will perform exactly identical to any mac. if you argue that the box looks different, hide it under your desk and purchase an apple LED!

[Spanky Deluxe]

If you use Hackintosh as a substitute for buying a real Mac, you fail. Period.

I cannot take people like you seriously - you're a fool to yourself dude.

Right. I fail at what exactly? How am I fooling myself? Bah, forget about it, I think I've done enough troll feeding for today.

[DoFoT9]

Right. I fail at what exactly? How am I fooling myself? Bah, forget about it, I think I've done enough troll feeding for today.

id like to know the answer to this also ;)

[disconap]

I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this as well. I have no problem with Hackintoshes, I'm just advising that if a constantly reliable machine for a professional environment is what you're after, there are better approaches.

[disconap]

If you take the equipment, you prevent others from using it, as there's only that object. That's not the case with software, as it's not physical in nature, but information. Slight, but important difference between physical and intellectual property. Both are theft in a legal sense, but one causes real harm, rather than potential profit loss (presumption of lost sales).

I've gotten to know you through your posts on here so I have no desire to in any way insult you, your opinions are almost always helpful at the very least, but there are already several threads where this argument is fought, no need to do it here. ;)

[DoFoT9]

I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this as well. I have no problem with Hackintoshes, I'm just advising that if a constantly reliable machine for a professional environment is what you're after, there are better approaches.

in a pro environment where warranty and all that are key for the company - the "real thing" would seem the best option of course.

[nanofrog]

I've gotten to know you through your posts on here so I have no desire to in any way insult you, your opinions are almost always helpful at the very least, but there are already several threads where this argument is fought, no need to do it here. ;)
NP. The thread was getting derailed as a result of the "to hack or not to hack" mess. ;) :p

[codymac]

I'm using it in my home studio. I work for a company where I do remote classical recordings. For that I have my 17" PowerBook thats been like a tank. I use Logic, the Apogee ensemble, and am getting Milennia pres soon. I use my company's mics, usually a stereo pair of Neumann 184s and two AKG 414s for omnis. For really high end jobs, I'll use a pair of Schoepps.

I'll be using this hackintosh mostly for mastering and mixing. No real heavy duty tracking.



I'm thinking that its going to be a good compromise. Of course I'd ideally like a Mac Pro, but from all the research that I've done, as long as I prepare very carefully and follow a quality build, I shouldn't run into too many problems.

Greg

I think you'll be fine then. I went as first class as possible and bought all new components for a Lifehacker build recently and it cost me barely over $1k (less than a third of what a comparable quad Mac Pro would). Mine handles running Logic just fine. In fact, that's part of the reason I wanted to build it - to set up some small scale multitrack recording at home and to play with some of the new technology that's out there.

I figured I'd likely end up repurposing it when/if the next gen Mac Pro hits, provided it meets my needs.

[scottness]

My personal opinion about Hackint0sh is:

Been there, done that, NOT WORTH IT.

Nothing beats the original. My conclusion is that I rather run windows on pc's. OSX just seems too broken under any Hackint0sh. Especially the sleep functions and the kernel panics.

Save money and buy a real mac. You only live once. :)

+1, from the hack I wish I didn't build. What I saved in $$ will never buy back the time I've wasted on this stupid thing.

Just waiting for Arrandale now...

[DoFoT9]

+1, from the hack I wish I didn't build. What I saved in $$ will never buy back the time I've wasted on this stupid thing.

Just waiting for Arrandale now...

you clearly didnt do something right then ;)

[NoSmokingBandit]

Correct, DoFoT9.
I have not had one single kernel panic on my current hac, which i built last summer. Its been running about 16 hours a day, then sleeping the other 8 (much like myself), and its as solid as ever.

[glossywhite]

you clearly didnt do something right then ;)

Wow, you think? :rolleyes:

Yes, he didn't get a Mac; a REAL Mac.

[NoSmokingBandit]

How do you reconcile that argument with my situation. According to you i did something incorrect by not purchasing a "real" mac, yet there is no performance or stability concerns on my rig. That apple logo on the side really must be magical.

[scottness]

you clearly didnt do something right then ;)

You're probably right... I could waste even more time trying to screw around with it and figure it out, or just get an Apple when the new ones come out. In my experience, the Apple's Macs require less fiddling. I just need the darn thing to work. After this experience, I don't mind paying twice as much for an already configured Mac. May not be worth it for everyone... but it is to me.

[DoFoT9]

Wow, you think? :rolleyes:

Yes, he didn't get a Mac; a REAL Mac.
haha im afraid that doesnt make any sense. you are partly correct in the sense that getting a real mac would make it a real mac - thats only logic.

you are incorrect in the sense that a hackintosh cant act like a "real mac".

How do you reconcile that argument with my situation. According to you i did something incorrect by not purchasing a "real" mac, yet there is no performance or stability concerns on my rig. That apple logo on the side really must be magical.
my point exactly hehe.

You're probably right... I could waste even more time trying to screw around with it and figure it out, or just get an Apple when the new ones come out. In my experience, the Apple's Macs require less fiddling. I just need the darn thing to work. After this experience, I don't mind paying twice as much for an already configured Mac. May not be worth it for everyone... but it is to me.
thats fair enough in your case! but in the defence of hackintosh's, if you purchase the correct hardware the installation of OSX goes just as simply as on a "real mac". the purchase/installation of the PC hardware might take a while to configure but thats what makes it fun :D

[scottness]

thats fair enough in your case! but in the defence of hackintosh's, if you purchase the correct hardware the installation of OSX goes just as simply as on a "real mac". the purchase/installation of the PC hardware might take a while to configure but thats what makes it fun :D

Not so fun when you're way behind at work... If I had more time, it'd probably be more fun. ;)

[DoFoT9]

Not so fun when you're way behind at work... If I had more time, it'd probably be more fun. ;)

sorry to hear you're behind your work :( it is really fun but :)

[Super_Saxy]

Hey everyone, just to let everyone know that I've got everything up and running with no problems.

The computer is super fast. I'll post pictures when I can.

[fhall1]

Hey everyone, just to let everyone know that I've got everything up and running with no problems.

The computer is super fast. I'll post pictures when I can.

Give us a parts list too....I keep toying with the idea of building one myself

[NoManIsland]

Personally, the idea of making a Hackintosh makes me uncomfortable as it doesn't support the further development of the platform and, perhaps more importantly, it also causes Apple to divert its attention even more from the Mac line to its "i" devices and/or invites Apple to lock down the OS even tighter.

This aside, however, I would not force my moral stance on anyone else, as I fully understand the indignation that many feel against Apple's brutally limited hardware choices and premium prices. I myself was livid when I saved and waited months for the 2009 Mac Pros to be released, with the plan to purchase a price-reduced 2008 or a 2009 if the improvements were compelling enough. Of course, neither of those occurred, with Apple essentially going backwards on the price to performance ratio and failing to offer the previous generation at any kind of discount. I have to say I felt disillusioned with the company I have supported fervently since the SE, at both their lack of innovation and their greed. Because of this I fully understand the impetus to use generic hardware.

[netkas]

One fact about hackintosh, if you can make it work like a mac (problemless updates, etc) - you've got good brains :)

[spcopsmac21]

I used a Gigabyte motherboard that has the ability to use 2 graphics cards and ddr3 ram.
I stuck with an older (but brand new out the box) Yorkfield Core 2 Quad 9550-TX that came 2.86ghz out of the box, and over clocked it to 3.72 ghz.
4gb 1600MHZ ddr3 ram, (Yes only 4) 8 Gb is just too much money right now and it has no real effect on performance right now for what I use it for.

My computer Geekbenched and Cinabenched WAY over the Quad core Xeon Mac pro offered by apple. And it even went head to head with the 8 core that costs over 4 grand. And my computer with my time included only cost $1013.83 , And for all the people who HATE Hackintoshes , Per apple regulations not allowing the install of Mac OSX on a non apple branded hardware. I have used an EMPTY Mac Pro case. HAHA

I think its great people who have the know how to do this do. But if you a worried about the warranty issue, don't
Most hardware has a limited lifetime warranty or 2-3 year warranty.
And if that isnt enough for you use your home owners insurance, or renters insurance. If the Computer take a crap all you have to do is prove it went to crap and they send you a nice check to replace it.

Always keep your options open.

[spcopsmac21]

Ive got mine updating, sleeping, waking up, burning/reading. Gaming, encoding ext....3 weeks so far and no Kernel panics, no issues and it has yet to over heat.
The new Chameleon boot loader works well, as long as you have 100% compatible hardware.

[bearcatrp]

I would do this if I could use dual socket harpertowns. Haven't looked in awhile to see if this can be done. Given the price apple wants now for mac pro's, this will probably be my next option. Anyone know if it can be done?

[nanofrog]

I would do this if I could use dual socket harpertowns. Haven't looked in awhile to see if this can be done. Given the price apple wants now for mac pro's, this will probably be my next option. Anyone know if it can be done?
I would think so, particularly if you use the EFI emulation method.

[Super_Saxy]

Hey guys,

I'm happy to report that the hackintosh has been running for over a month and there were no problems to report so far (there was one kernel panic, but that was caused by me messing around with some things in OS X. I was able to fix the problem I caused very easily with the help of some more experienced hackintoshers).

The computer is great and its faster then I ever imagined. I'll post the complete specs list when I get home form work. In the meantime, here are some pics. Since I last took these pictures, I have added more Ultraviolet lighting, and some more UV reactive paint. I'll try to take more pictures again when I get home.