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View Full Version : Getting Apple to Replace Rev A with B or C . . .




tb2me
Jan 28, 2010, 11:48 PM
Hey, all.

So I've had a love/hate relationship with my Rev A Macbook Air since summer of 08. I bought it as a secondary machine and, while I suffered many of the same issues that other folks did (constantly overheating kernals, core shutdown, etc) it never was too much trouble since it wasn't my primary. I had to have essentially the entire computer replaced this summer when it suffered the hinge issues other people have had. This new machine has been even more troublesome than the previous one, with regards to kernal_task of up to 180+%, sometimes as soon as I turn the computer on. It was shortly after I got this replacement that I started a new job where I travel for a living. Suddenly my secondary computer is my primary.

It has become intolerably bad. I had one appointment at an Apple store where they tried everything up to and including a complete clean install of the most recent OS, all to no avail. I've since been documenting the problems I've been having (Screenshots, quicktime vids) so that this coming Monday, at my next appointment in a new city, I can make a strong case that the computer is a lemon and get them to give me a new one. At this point, though, I'm tired of the Revision A machines. I don't want to chance it with another. I know there have been people who have gotten upgraded to newer models with enough complaining, but I'm having trouble finding the threads. Any advice or links to similar situations would be helpful. I don't need a shiny, top-of-the-line machine. I bought a base model Rev A and would be more than happy with a base model Rev B, so long as it can do something like browse Safari for more than 30 minutes without locking up my whole system. I'm still under my AppleCare, and I've been a good Apple customer for nearly a decade, purchasing something like 4 iMacs, 4 laptops, and close to a dozen iPods and iPhones for myself and my family. What do I need to do to get them to replace my failing machine?



daferrisda
Jan 29, 2010, 02:05 AM
Hi,

I've had a similar issue with my Macbook RevA. It's been back to Apple four times for Audio and hinge problems, all I can say is they would not replace the whole unit, they ended up replacing everything in side from the systems board, to the audio board and screen. In effect I've got a new Rev A Macbook but the same case.

I got the feeling they may replace the unit but only like for like. If it's under warranty still then I'd sugest you write a letter detailing all the issues you have with it and request it's replaced, as it's clearly not "Fit for purpose".

Good luck anyway

Scottsdale
Jan 29, 2010, 02:14 AM
Ask for a manager.


Don't act like you fully understand the technology and explain it needs to "just work" as you depend on it daily.

Act like you truly think the Genius is a genius and you're not that smart as you just need a Mac that really works for all of the apps you have.


Ask for exactly what you want.


Explain why you need a new one versus fixing it again.


Make a fair argument that the repairs have been excessive and that you have spent a lot of time trying to make it usable.

Explain as many times as possible that you need the MBA to "just work." Apple's whole point is to make it work.


Don't yell or get angry.


If the previous list doesn't achieve the results you wish, send your wife, girlfriend, or mother into the store. Apple's "Geniuses" do far more for women than men. I have sent my wife in before with my problematic computer and had her walk out with a brand new one (not even refurbished), and that was after I tried talking to manager and everything myself. I told her to "flirt" with the genius. Apple really does go by the Mac should just work and for some reason they seem to feel better about giving women a new Mac for their troubles.

If none of this works, try another Apple store OR call online. Remember to tell them that you have never had these problems with other Macs, that you have bought a lot of Macs, and that you need this MBA to just work like all your prior Macs.

Good luck!

Synchromesh
Jan 29, 2010, 11:41 PM
Ask for a manager.


Don't act like you fully understand the technology and explain it needs to "just work" as you depend on it daily.

Act like you truly think the Genius is a genius and you're not that smart as you just need a Mac that really works for all of the apps you have.


Ask for exactly what you want.


Explain why you need a new one versus fixing it again.


Make a fair argument that the repairs have been excessive and that you have spent a lot of time trying to make it usable.

Explain as many times as possible that you need the MBA to "just work." Apple's whole point is to make it work.


Don't yell or get angry.


Excellent list! This should become a sticky somewhere. Playing dumb usually helps.

If the previous list doesn't achieve the results you wish, send your wife, girlfriend, or mother into the store. Apple's "Geniuses" do far more for women than men. I have sent my wife in before with my problematic computer and had her walk out with a brand new one (not even refurbished), and that was after I tried talking to manager and everything myself. I told her to "flirt" with the genius. Apple really does go by the Mac should just work and for some reason they seem to feel better about giving women a new Mac for their troubles.

I don't think it's fair (and in fact it's sexist) but sounds plausible.

iDisk
Jan 30, 2010, 08:34 AM
I THINK EVERYONE WHO READS THESE FORUMS KNOW THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE MACBOOK AIRS ARE REV A USERS.

In short STAY AWAY FROM REV A those who don't know what the REV A is, simple look at the GPU (Graphics) if it says INTEL then don't buy it.

Scottsdale
Jan 30, 2010, 09:51 AM
I THINK EVERYONE WHO READS THESE FORUMS KNOW THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE MACBOOK AIRS ARE REV A USERS.

In short STAY AWAY FROM REV A those who don't know what the REV A is, simple look at the GPU (Graphics) if it says INTEL then don't buy it.

Hey iDisk, I sure could have used your support over in another thread over the credibility and lack of performance of Intel's IGP. I have been slaughtered by Intel stock holders, contract employees, and just plain "fans" of Intel's IGP who truly believe that Intel's latest graphics are equivalent to the 15-month-old 9400m Nvidia GPU. Of course they're using an "advertisement" as a basis for their argument but they're considering it "science."

iDisk
Jan 30, 2010, 10:41 AM
Hey iDisk, I sure could have used your support over in another thread over the credibility and lack of performance of Intel's IGP. I have been slaughtered by Intel stock holders, contract employees, and just plain "fans" of Intel's IGP who truly believe that Intel's latest graphics are equivalent to the 15-month-old 9400m Nvidia GPU. Of course they're using an "advertisement" as a basis for their argument but they're considering it "science."

I think I know the thread your talking about, I'll be over there to bring some facts to the table also about the INHELL GPU's ;)

Scottsdale
Jan 30, 2010, 11:09 AM
I think I know the thread your talking about, I'll be over there to bring some facts to the table also about the INHELL GPU's ;)

God Bless You!

MacModMachine
Jan 31, 2010, 08:31 AM
Hey iDisk, I sure could have used your support over in another thread over the credibility and lack of performance of Intel's IGP. I have been slaughtered by Intel stock holders, contract employees, and just plain "fans" of Intel's IGP who truly believe that Intel's latest graphics are equivalent to the 15-month-old 9400m Nvidia GPU. Of course they're using an "advertisement" as a basis for their argument but they're considering it "science."

lol....you did take a beating in that other thread....by intel employee's....


lol

iDisk
Jan 31, 2010, 12:12 PM
lol....you did take a beating in that other thread....by intel employee's....


lol



Lol I laugh everytime I see your picture lol

GOD BLESS YOU TOO SCOTTSDALE... Is everything cool with your personal situation??

I seriously pray your doing much better :)

MacModMachine
Jan 31, 2010, 12:38 PM
Lol I laugh everytime I see your picture lol

GOD BLESS YOU TOO SCOTTSDALE... Is everything cool with your personal situation??

I seriously pray your doing much better :)

its actually animated...but doesn't seem to work properly :(

Mintin8
Jan 31, 2010, 01:11 PM
its actually animated...but doesn't seem to work properly :(

What format is it?

Scottsdale
Feb 1, 2010, 12:51 AM
Lol I laugh everytime I see your picture lol

GOD BLESS YOU TOO SCOTTSDALE... Is everything cool with your personal situation??

I seriously pray your doing much better :)

Thanks. I appreciate it.

I have been dealing with health issues for nearly five months. I am receiving treatment away from home in a different state. The worst part is missing my children. But I see my kids daily on the computer. I really wish the iPad had a video camera and did videoconferencing. It would be a lot better than dealing with a computer.


As to Intel...

I personally don't understand why anyone would trust or believe in Intel when it comes to graphics. I do believe the only reason I ever gave the MBA another chance was because the Nvidia GPU replaced the Intel 3100. I don't think we would still be discussing the MBA as a relevant computer if it weren't for the 9400m GPU. Whether Intel could compete with a 15-month-old GPU still seems like a dumb argument - why shouldn't we want PROGRESS? I think progress is an improvement over the 9400m. It's too darn bad Intel is playing the "licensing" card with Nvidia. I don't personally care about Arrandale. The MBA doesn't need a faster CPU... the MBA needs more RAM, more drive space, and a glass trackpad. What the heck do I know anyways.

alpinadvl
Feb 1, 2010, 10:02 PM
Just want to chime in....

the Rev A to rev C can be done.

I have had this done by apple (only had to pay the difference from the comparable Rev A (to get the top of line Rev C)... came out to something like $225 or something like that.

Background :
- I ordered my Rev A SSD etc 25 seconds after the keynote.
- I had the logicboard replaced by apple once
- I have had the laptop brought in to apple / genius - complaining of (legitimate) heating issues... and crashes - necessitating forced shutdown (each time the computer was brought in... or discussed at the genius bar - I asked and made sure the genius entered the complaints and filed them - this paper trail was important for later on)
- in addition I have had a genius take the computer on 2 occasions to "evaluate it" - diagnostic test or something like that
- also, every time a crash, or overheat or application quit unexpectedly - I took a snapshot of it (and kept that in the folder)
- this last thing was key....
- when i brought it in finally to the main Apple place in SF... I purposely then reinstalled Leopard - cleaned out the system... and did all the updates.... less than a week later I had overheating and some quit applications I then :
- brought the laptop in and demanded a solution.... and asked for the manager to be made aware of the situation and get involved.
- I "acted dumb" - ...never once asking for a replacement... but stating that I was simply not satisfied with the computer - and that it was becoming unbearable to work with it (as my primary computer) - all true.
- computer was replaced... authorized by the apple store - and approved by apple.


Hope that helps.

Alf

USAF - 1
Feb 23, 2010, 11:18 AM
Just want to chime in....

the Rev A to rev C can be done.

I have had this done by apple (only had to pay the difference from the comparable Rev A (to get the top of line Rev C)... came out to something like $225 or something like that.

Background :
- I ordered my Rev A SSD etc 25 seconds after the keynote.
- I had the logicboard replaced by apple once
- I have had the laptop brought in to apple / genius - complaining of (legitimate) heating issues... and crashes - necessitating forced shutdown (each time the computer was brought in... or discussed at the genius bar - I asked and made sure the genius entered the complaints and filed them - this paper trail was important for later on)
- in addition I have had a genius take the computer on 2 occasions to "evaluate it" - diagnostic test or something like that
- also, every time a crash, or overheat or application quit unexpectedly - I took a snapshot of it (and kept that in the folder)
- this last thing was key....
- when i brought it in finally to the main Apple place in SF... I purposely then reinstalled Leopard - cleaned out the system... and did all the updates.... less than a week later I had overheating and some quit applications I then :
- brought the laptop in and demanded a solution.... and asked for the manager to be made aware of the situation and get involved.
- I "acted dumb" - ...never once asking for a replacement... but stating that I was simply not satisfied with the computer - and that it was becoming unbearable to work with it (as my primary computer) - all true.
- computer was replaced... authorized by the apple store - and approved by apple.


Hope that helps.

Alf

Which store in SF was this? I need to take mine in. They just did a bunch of repairs, but it it still overheating and shutting down. Did they give you a choice as to which Air you could get? I'd gladly pay the difference to upgrade to the top of the line C.

Yavanna
Feb 23, 2010, 12:38 PM
A replacement is very possible, as I got one. i purchased a Rev A refurb in April '09, had several repairs, and later developed a hinge wobble, as well as a recurrence of the original problem (battery ran down rapidly in sleep mode, among other things). In October I called and asked for Customer Relations (VERY IMPORTANT!)

I explained the situation, referring to the previous repairs, and how unsatisfactory the machine was. I expected to get another refurb to replace mine, but Apple surprised me by sending me a brand new Rev C, straight from China, at no additional cost to me. They do ask for a Credit card, so they have recourse if you don't return the original to them in 30 days.

As another poster stressed, be very polite, tell them about your long history with Apple, and loyalty to the brand.

Good luck.

bloodycape
Feb 23, 2010, 01:59 PM
I don't personally care about Arrandale. The MBA doesn't need a faster CPU... the MBA needs more RAM, more drive space, and a glass trackpad. What the heck do I know anyways.
What about better battery life that last a good bit longer than the 13in MBP.

macboy4
Feb 23, 2010, 04:01 PM
I think the biggest problem for you is going to be how long you've had the MBA. Apple replaced a couple for me, but it was withing a couple of months of purchase.

I think you could definitely get yours replaced, but in my case, the time frame helped.

PS I noticed you've had it for over a year... did you purchase AppleCare?

Scottsdale
Feb 24, 2010, 12:21 AM
What about better battery life that last a good bit longer than the 13in MBP.

I believe the current MBA battery is excellent! I wouldn't add a half pound of weight to double the battery capabilities. I also would prefer a new MBA at 2.5 lb. with same battery life as a 3 lb. MBA with double battery capabilities. I have never not had enough battery power from my MBA. I charge it when I am near a plugin. I have a power adapter for my bag, one for my couch, one for my bedroom and a built-in on the 24" ACD. When I am at client offices or giving lectures/presentations, it always lasts long enough. I also have the airline travel plugin and the International travel adaptors for when traveling. The current MBA gets three to four hours depending on how bright the display is set. Consider the battery weight required to get the MBPs to last as long as they do.

The other thing I don't want to do is give up the GPU for solely an Arrandale IGP that will lose our graphics performance to save a few minutes of battery. The graphics capabilities in the current MBA or better is far more important than adding battery power in the next MBA update.

What matters is reducing weight yet having the same battery capabilities, more RAM (most important), and more drive space is the second most important factor stated by those who don't buy the MBA. I also would LOVE a glass buttonless trackpad, and I definitely believe it will be in the next MBA wether it's the same form factor or even smaller.

I don't believe adding battery capabilities makes my top ten requirements in the next MBA.

bloodycape
Feb 24, 2010, 12:36 AM
Well the newer Intel LV cpu is suppose to have better battery life based on some of the review I have seen on the Lenovo X201 vs X200. What do you think of switchable gpu?


To the OP how long have you had the computer for?

tb2me
Feb 24, 2010, 03:44 PM
To wrap this up (long overdue!) . . .

I had an appointment a couple weeks ago that I ended up canceling because of transportation issues (I travel for work and don't have access to a car all the time). Today I am in another town with an Apple Store, so I made an appointment and went in this afternoon. I went in, showed them the computer, showed the screenshots and videos of all the different problems I've had (overheating, weird graphic card stuff, and more) and explained problems that weren't documented, as well as had them look at the history of the machine. The first genius called another, and they went in the back to talk about it with a manager. They came out and said they would replace my computer with a brand new machine of the current model. I'm happily typing this on my 1.83 Ghz Core 2 Duo MacBook Air Rev C (or B? is there a difference between the current entry-level and the last iteration, aside from the price?). I didn't ask for a replacement or anything, just explained how unusable my computer was, explained and demonstrated the issues, and detailed my travails at the Genius Bar.

Happy day! :D

stoconnell
Feb 24, 2010, 04:36 PM
To wrap this up (long overdue!) . . .
I'm happily typing this on my 1.83 Ghz Core 2 Duo MacBook Air Rev C (or B? is there a difference between the current entry-level and the last iteration, aside from the price?).

Happy day indeed.

The so called Rev C models were introduced in June 2009 vs. the Rev B which were introduced in October 2008 (iirc); however, both are technically MacBookAir2,1 models if you look at System Profiler. The differences between October and June at the lower spec was a move from 1.6 GHz to 1.86GHz while both the high and low models got a slightly more capable battery, and a free USB ethernet adapter. There was also a minor clock speed bump in the graphics, too.

dextro
Feb 24, 2010, 08:43 PM
Hi I own a 2 month old 2.13 Ghz MBA and the kernel_task issue appears at least once a day and definitely it has to do with overheating (it is summer here in Chile).

Scottsdale
Feb 24, 2010, 10:03 PM
To wrap this up (long overdue!) . . .

I had an appointment a couple weeks ago that I ended up canceling because of transportation issues (I travel for work and don't have access to a car all the time). Today I am in another town with an Apple Store, so I made an appointment and went in this afternoon. I went in, showed them the computer, showed the screenshots and videos of all the different problems I've had (overheating, weird graphic card stuff, and more) and explained problems that weren't documented, as well as had them look at the history of the machine. The first genius called another, and they went in the back to talk about it with a manager. They came out and said they would replace my computer with a brand new machine of the current model. I'm happily typing this on my 1.83 Ghz Core 2 Duo MacBook Air Rev C (or B? is there a difference between the current entry-level and the last iteration, aside from the price?). I didn't ask for a replacement or anything, just explained how unusable my computer was, explained and demonstrated the issues, and detailed my travails at the Genius Bar.

Happy day! :D

Congratulations on your resolution of the original MBA conundrum. First, your MBA has a 1.86 GHz SL9400 17W Intel Core 2 Duo Penryn CPU! It's awesome! Furthermore, it has the Nvidia GPU and chipset! It also has a SATA-II drive controller and DDR3 1066 MHz RAM! I would say you should be set for a few years!

While a lot of people here refer to rev B and rev C MBAs, the true rev C MBA is yet to be released. Both are referred to as a v 2,1 MBA. One is called October 2008 and the other June 2009. If your MBA came with a 128 GB SSD, it's a rev B MBA. If it has an HDD, it's a rev C MBA. The other additions to the rev C MBA is an Ethernet/USB plug, a tiny bump in battery capabilities (probably to achieve some Gold rating or energy efficient), and the BTO options are gone.

Best wishes with your new MBA! One great deal! Did you use anyone's advice from above? Please do tell everyone the most accurate discussion so they can know what to go forward with to get this most spectacular upgrade!

USAF - 1
Feb 25, 2010, 11:27 AM
I just had a ton of work done to my Rev A to attempt to fix overheating issues. They also replaced the entire display and clamshell to fix the hinges. Last night it completely overheate d(87 degrees C) and was completely unusable. I am going to try to take it in tomorrow and ask for a new one. What are the chances they will let me upgrade to the current top of the line C (of course paying any difference)? If they do let you exchange it, can you extend the applecare for 3 years?

tb2me
Feb 25, 2010, 12:16 PM
I dunno about getting them to upgrade you even if you pay the difference. Never hurts to ask, though! (Of course, the amount I paid for my original MBA is now the price of the top-of-the-line, but I still got the base model :) )

I'd agree with others in the thread about playing relatively dumb and being a little coy about what you want. If you go in saying "This computer doesn't work, I want a better one," they're less likely to help. I went in, explained every issue I've had with my computer in the 18 months I've owned it, showed them my screenshots and videos, and then gave a rundown of the replacement and repair history, with them verifying my statements in the case history of my machine. The genius went in the back, talked to a manager, came out and announced they would replace it with an "equivalent model." I sort of tipped my hand when I asked to verify that equivalent meant the current base model, not another Rev A, but that's the closest I came to asking outright for a new computer. If you go the subtle route and it doesn't get you anywhere, no harm in asking for a new one, I suppose, but I'd do my best to lead them gently to that conclusion than making demands.

USAF - 1
Feb 25, 2010, 03:44 PM
I agree, being a jerk gets you nowhere. I am going in tomorrow to see what they can do. They did say they would replace it after the last repair if it did not work out, so I'll be nice and hopefully it will work out.

tangje
Feb 25, 2010, 04:13 PM
Glad to hear you had success. I've been following this thread for a while on my Rev A. :(

Bought June 2008.

July 2008 = Logic board replacement
July 2009 = HDD failure, replacement (and that wasn't even why I took it in for service - I took it in regarding the temperature issues!)

Overheating, kernel_task, kernel panic, crazy fans, video issues. All these problems persist.

Been waiting to get the hinge issue addressed but I can't be without my computer for a week with school right now. That would be third repair inside 2 years on this machine.

I've called AppleCare. Was forwarded to a Senior Advisor who had me do a data capture and send it. We'll see what comes of this. The frontline AppleCare rep said they'd look into repairing it but it might result in a replacement since there have been so many issues (and I hadn't even mentioned that I'm waiting to get the hinge issue fixed). I never brought up a replacement. Just reiterated all the problems, especially the two documented repairs.

Silverstring
Feb 25, 2010, 04:32 PM
I had 4 separate repairs on my MBA, and in each instance, MULTIPLE parts were replaced:

-hard drive replaced
-audio port replaced x2
-USB port replaced
-Screen replaced x2
-Hinge and hinge assembly replaced x3
-Logic Board replaced x2
-misc parts replaced (top shell/various parts related to other repairs) x3

The hinge started to get loose again, the overheating persisted, and I was beginning to get frequent kernel panics.

Needless to say, I was fed up.

I brought it in, and the very nice genius looked at my repair history, and agreed it was "excessive". (I'll say, the only thing original that remained on that computer since I bought it was the bottom case and keyboard!). This was a Rev. A that I bought shortly after release (Feb 2008) w/ Applecare.

I explained my case very calmly, saying that I had no reason to "trust" another repair process. I never explicitly asked for a replacement, but without even putting me through the ringer of "diagnosing" my problem again on this last visit (where I've had other geniuses try to challenge/disprove me), the genius went to the back to talk to a manager. By the time he emerged, he offered me a replacement, the entry-level latest revision.

I ended up, at that point, asking for the step-up MB 13'' of equivalent price ($1499, even though I paid $1799 for my original MBA), and the manager/genius accommodated me. I like the size/portability of the MBA, but I made the switch for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was the fact that the hinge design was the same, and I do not have any faith in that hinge after my experience.

Even though I had AppleCare on the MBA, I was NOT offered a "free" Apple Care for the new machine, although I have heard that some people have managed to get this too. Instead, I was offered the option to call AppleCare and get a partial refund on the existing contract.

Truthfully, I could've argued for another AppleCare to be included, but I didn't. I was happy to take a new machine and get out of there after all that had happened.

macboy4
Feb 26, 2010, 10:31 AM
I dunno about getting them to upgrade you even if you pay the difference. Never hurts to ask, though! (Of course, the amount I paid for my original MBA is now the price of the top-of-the-line, but I still got the base model :) )

I'd agree with others in the thread about playing relatively dumb and being a little coy about what you want. If you go in saying "This computer doesn't work, I want a better one," they're less likely to help. I went in, explained every issue I've had with my computer in the 18 months I've owned it, showed them my screenshots and videos, and then gave a rundown of the replacement and repair history, with them verifying my statements in the case history of my machine. The genius went in the back, talked to a manager, came out and announced they would replace it with an "equivalent model." I sort of tipped my hand when I asked to verify that equivalent meant the current base model, not another Rev A, but that's the closest I came to asking outright for a new computer. If you go the subtle route and it doesn't get you anywhere, no harm in asking for a new one, I suppose, but I'd do my best to lead them gently to that conclusion than making demands.

I have couple of questions...

1. Did they give you the HDD? I'm assuming so since it was brand new...
not a lot of new Rev Bs laying around Apple Stores.

2. This is crucial for any others who want to get their's replaced... your
MBA was 18 months old, did you have AppleCare? If not, I'm even
more impressed with Apple.

tb2me
Feb 27, 2010, 09:56 PM
I have couple of questions...

1. Did they give you the HDD? I'm assuming so since it was brand new...
not a lot of new Rev Bs laying around Apple Stores.

2. This is crucial for any others who want to get their's replaced... your
MBA was 18 months old, did you have AppleCare? If not, I'm even
more impressed with Apple.

1. Yes, I got the entry-level Rev C, with a 120 GB HDD.

2. Yes, I have Apple Care. I learned my lesson after my 15 inch Macbook Pro Rev A went kaput just out of warranty. :)