"New Macs for 2010 are going to take Apple to the next level"

[sparkie7]

- man, i can't wait.

New Mac pros, 30/32" Displays (matte please), MacBook Pros and MacBook Airs..

Hope these releases are sooner rather than later. Please  don't yank our chains with huge price hikes. Thanks :D

[akadmon]

- man, i can't wait.

New Mac pros, 30/32" Displays (matte please), MacBook Pros and MacBook Airs..

Hope these releases are sooner rather than later. Please  don't yank our chains with huge price hikes. Thanks :D

You may be surprised. Instead of yanking your chain, they might just yank the hydrant away from you, leaving you pissing against the wind :D

[Icaras]

- man, i can't wait.

New Mac pros, 30/32" Displays (matte please), MacBook Pros and MacBook Airs..

Hope these releases are sooner rather than later. Please  don't yank our chains with huge price hikes. Thanks :D

Maybe they mean the next level of Mac Pro pricing! $3000+!

[snouter]

Being as PCs already have i3, i5 and i7 laptops, $1000 i7 desktops, USB 3 is starting to show up and they've been Blu-Ray capable for a while now... the next level must be something out of this world.

It's not like the ever innovative Apple to merely play catch-up. ;)

They need to get back to iFundmentals.

[sparkie7]

A multi-touch keyboard would be nice. and portrait swivel stands for new displays.

[300D]

Well duh its going to be "the next level". It wouldn't be an update if they used the same old hardware like a DVD burner for 9 years, oh wait, they have.

[Buzz Bumble]

Nope, you're all wrong. Apple are "going to the next level" by completely eliminating the slowest, most error-prone, and silliest part of the system ... the user! ;)

[Icaras]

Usually, I feel like "Store down" posts are reserved to iMacs, Mac Minis, and Macbooks, but it does look like the store is indeed down. Since I and many others here are itching for the 2010 Pros, I wonder if this could be it?

Edit: Actually, I'm now guessing this is probably nothing more than the occasional scheduled Sunday night maintenance. :(

[300D]

Maintenance.

[soLoredd]

Oh, here we go again. Typical Apple churching stuff up.:rolleyes:

[JesterJJZ]

I hope they hover.

[Pressure]

I believe he is talking about the consumer products.

What to expect from the Mac Pro is not harder than looking at Intel's roadmap.

[Techhie]

I believe he is talking about the consumer products.

What to expect from the Mac Pro is not harder than looking at Intel's roadmap.

It better be more than that, at least if they expect to win back some of the pros they lost in recent months.

[tekboi]

Yea just like the iPad "revolutionalized the industry" right?

sorry, but I'm starting to lose faith in Apple at this point. I don't know how a multi-billion dollar company can NOT listen to their consumers and put out such a poor product like the iPad.

[ncc1701d]

Store seems find in Hong Kong and USA. What were the changes?

[Icaras]

Store seems find in Hong Kong and USA. What were the changes?

Nothing. It's back up and it seems it was just maintenance.

[Charlie Croker]

"New Macs for 2010 are going to take Apple to the next level – Blu-Ray software is a mess, and Apple will wait until sales really start to take off before implementing it."

Perhaps Blu-Ray won't be implemented into the Mac in the next update if this is the still the current mood. The problem is that many media professionals, including myself, need Blu-Ray capabilities for our customers. The workaround and restrictions in hardware and software that exists at the moment is limiting. The drive towards streaming and downloads for revenue generation doesn't really help video producers who need all the tools to hand.

[sparkie7]

Touchscreen iMacs?, maybe touchscreen cinema displays? - woah.. Minority Report stuff..

[parakiet]

it's February the first

I bet they will come out with some goodies before December :cool:

[slughead]

Nope, you're all wrong. Apple are "going to the next level" by completely eliminating the slowest, most error-prone, and silliest part of the system ... the user! ;)

Yes. The next macs will not function with a keyboard and mouse.

Instead they will just open programs and perform random functions the computer deems "interesting" to show off how awesome macs are. All this will be done Oh-tomatically, as Jobs would say.

[hajime]

Hopefully it will be next level up rather than the other way.

[Pressure]

It better be more than that, at least if they expect to win back some of the pros they lost in recent months.

Why? Every other workstation will get the same. It is no secret.

They could surprise us with an early integration of the Light Peak technology.

[alFR]

Yea just like the iPad "revolutionalized the industry" right?

sorry, but I'm starting to lose faith in Apple at this point. I don't know how a multi-billion dollar company can NOT listen to their consumers and put out such a poor product like the iPad.

What didn't you like about it when you tried it? Oh, hang on, you're just someone on the internet having a go about something that you haven't used. I see...

[nanofrog]

What to expect from the Mac Pro is not harder than looking at Intel's roadmap.
Yep. All they need to do is update the firmware to incorporate the new microcode. Cheap and easy. For Apple. For the user, the system will be the same otherwise, and have the same issues (direct hardware such as DIMM slot count,..., not necessarly those that are a result of OS X in its current form).

It better be more than that, at least if they expect to win back some of the pros they lost in recent months.
Highly doubtful there will be new features to the hardware IMO, given Apple's lack of interest (i.e. audio thread, where smacman was threatened with the loss of warranty support if he continued to persue the issue, especially outside of Apple). Other users have been given the brush-off. :( :mad:

They could surprise us with an early integration of the Light Peak technology.
Parts for LP aren't expected until Q4 2010, so unless Apple waits to release say December 2010 and LP is completely on schedule, not going to happen. :eek: :p

[snouter]

What to expect from the Mac Pro is not harder than looking at Intel's roadmap.

For CPUs yes...

but the RAM slots are wack, six 1GB sticks of RAM is wack, no USB3 would be wack, for the money the hard drives should be closer to the largest available, the video card options are wack... the CPU options (at least as priced) were a little wack...

[beto2k7]

For CPUs yes...

but the RAM slots are wack, six 1GB sticks of RAM is wack, no USB3 would be wack, for the money the hard drives should be closer to the largest available, the video card options are wack... the CPU options (at least as priced) were a little wack...

USB3.0 is not even the standard yet.... remember how long took to USB2.0 to make it into apple products.... and if u have a mac pro ... then there's always a PCIe expansion card for that :P

[nanofrog]

For CPUs yes...

but the RAM slots are wack, six 1GB sticks of RAM is wack, no USB3 would be wack, for the money the hard drives should be closer to the largest available, the video card options are wack... the CPU options (at least as priced) were a little wack...
Swapping out the current USB chips for USB 3.0 compliant parts is easy enough to do by using the same component package (same board as now). Beyond that, not much will change with the board IMO, as it's more expensive. Look at what happened in the '07 models. Same board, new chip. That's what I figure will happen here as well, as it has almost no additional developement costs (save updating the firmware).

Apple's always used the smallest DIMM capacities to fill the memory order as it's cheaper for them. Graphics cards are always behind, and few choices. Apple's costs for upgrades has always been high. So these aspects will remain the same.

[snouter]

USB3.0 is not even the standard yet...

I'm just trying to figure out what the next level could possibly mean? :D

[TheStrudel]

"New Macs for 2010 are going to take Apple to the next level – Blu-Ray software is a mess, and Apple will wait until sales really start to take off before implementing it."

Perhaps Blu-Ray won't be implemented into the Mac in the next update if this is the still the current mood. The problem is that many media professionals, including myself, need Blu-Ray capabilities for our customers. The workaround and restrictions in hardware and software that exists at the moment is limiting. The drive towards streaming and downloads for revenue generation doesn't really help video producers who need all the tools to hand.

I've said this before, but all we're missing is playback. You can burn out of Compressor (latest version), Toast, and Encore. It's annoying that  are dragging their heels about implementing playback, but nothing's stopping you from using Blu-ray for your professional needs now. You'll just have to install the drive and software yourself, which isn't unreasonably difficult.

Anyway, onto the new stuff. Some reasonable possibilities include:

-New Displays.
-Updated Mac Pros. There may possibly be a design change, as when the Macbook Pros went an extended time without significant technology revision,  went to the trouble of really overhauling the case and battery tech.
-Updated Mac mini.
-I don't foresee many changes for iMacs, as they just got their comprehensive overhaul.
-More Touchscreen tech. Possibly in displays or iMacs.
-Inclusion of new interface standards, such as SATA-6 or USB 3.

I think that covers most of what  is likely to change for Macs in the near future.

[Truffy]

How about a wireless keyboard with...wait for it...a keypad! Tada!! :cool:

[Truffy]

Ooooh, and power-dockable wireless KB and mouse, so you can charge batteries in situ.

[OddThomas]

Probably Light Peak and as everyone has said, lots of hope for new monitors. Hopefully a 27" IPS priced just under the cheapest 27 iMac... hold the yellow and flicker though.

Shirley they will announce Gulftown Pros since it's rumored to release in March.

[Truffy]

I realise that this is hardly "next level" (whatever that means) but given SJ's pronouncements on Blu-Ray, I'm beginning to think that his idea of 'next level' may be more along the lines of multi-touch everywhere. And while that might have some people touching themselves in anticipation, an MT screen on my desk will simply not work.

[nanofrog]

Probably Light Peak and as everyone has said, lots of hope for new monitors. Hopefully a 27" IPS priced just under the cheapest 27 iMac... hold the yellow and flicker though.

Shirley they will announce Gulftown Pros since it's rumored to release in March.
As LP parts aren't scheduled to be available for manufacturing (board makers) until Q4 2010, it's not likely LP will be seen in products until 2011.

[Techhie]

As LP parts aren't scheduled to be available for manufacturing (board makers) until Q4 2010, it's not likely LP will be seen in products until 2011.

Don't you mean somewhere around ~2013 for the MP, well after it becomes standard? Or maybe Apple will continue to make pros happy by purposely implementing a proprietary mini-lightpeak port (adapter sold for a nominal fee, of course)

*sigh... These guys have better up their game if they want Apple hardware on my desk in 2011.

[OddThomas]

ha-ha i will settle for the monitor.

i'm not in the market for a while, my 2008 MP is running just fine. my next machine will be a 64 core, SSD light cube, TeraRAM, something, something.

[TOMDAVIES920]

Still no change to the apple store in U.K. despite apple confirming a release of the ipad in april a lot of people seem to think it will appear on the apple store to order in march but that doesnt give much clue to the mac pro and macbook pro refresh according to the buyers guide in 2008 they were released 26th february could apple be aiming to have the store updated with various new products late feb early march?

[sigmadog]

Whatever the specifics of the new MacPros, I just hope they are magical, like the iPad.

I'm getting tired of casting analog spells.

[nanofrog]

Don't you mean somewhere around ~2013 for the MP, well after it becomes standard? Or maybe Apple will continue to make pros happy by purposely implementing a proprietary mini-lightpeak port (adapter sold for a nominal fee, of course)

*sigh... These guys have better up their game if they want Apple hardware on my desk in 2011.
Well, given the parts won't be available until Q4 2010, the earliest systems will have it is 2011, no matter which vendor/model.

As per Apple, the earliest would be 2012 for the MP's, if at all. I'd expect it more on the iMac line (and sooner).

[thermodynamic]

Yea just like the iPad "revolutionalized the industry" right?

sorry, but I'm starting to lose faith in Apple at this point. I don't know how a multi-billion dollar company can NOT listen to their consumers and put out such a poor product like the iPad.

For a thin client device for web accessibility, it's in poor taste for Apple to keep Flash locked out. Why is Flash continually locked out? What is Apple afraid of? Why doesn't Apple have its own solution to Flash after all this time?

[Icaras]

For a thin client device for web accessibility, it's in poor taste for Apple to keep Flash locked out. Why is Flash continually locked out? What is Apple afraid of? Why doesn't Apple have its own solution to Flash after all this time?

Jobs has adamantly expressed Adobe's own laziness as the result of weak flash support on Macs and Apple mobile device.

And the solution to Flash seems to be HTML5.

[Chaos123x]

Mac Pro's need a serious price reduction.

Can they do dual processor without using Xeon chips?

[reebzor]

Yea I'd like Apple to get up to this level first.

[PurpleLogix]

Yep, they are all going to be EFI128;)

[nanofrog]

Can they do dual processor without using Xeon chips?
Unfortunately, No. :(

[Techhie]

Unfortunately, No. :(

Unless Intel decides it doesn't want to charge a premium for essentially the same chip, which I don't see happening :rolleyes:

[nanofrog]

Unless Intel decides it doesn't want to charge a premium for essentially the same chip, which I don't see happening :rolleyes:
Intel's always kept DP and MP (Multi Processor) designs to the Xeon and Itanium lines. And I really don't see that changing any time soon, especially with the enterprise parts taking the direction of yet more cores for such systems. ;) :p

[Wild-Bill]

I just submitted feedback to Apple on the 2010 Mac Pro. I did a few months back as well. I basically asked that they include the ATI Radeon HD 5870 as a BTO option, as well as the standalone card for existing Mac Pro owners.

I also asked them to follow a pricing strategy similar to the 2008 Mac Pros, as the 2009 prices are horrific and offensive, though I didn't use those particular adjectives......;)

-=> http://www.apple.com/feedback/macpro.html <=-

[snouter]

Intel's always kept DP and MP (Multi Processor) designs to the Xeon and Itanium lines. And I really don't see that changing any time soon, especially with the enterprise parts taking the direction of yet more cores for such systems. ;) :p

My dual Pentium III 800 would like a word with you...

Oh wait, that was then, this is now...

Errbody in the club gettin' tipsy

[snouter]

I also asked them to follow a pricing strategy similar to the 2008 Mac Pros, as the 2009 prices are horrific and offensive, though I didn't use those particular adjectives......;)-

They could have increased value in the 2009 llineup by simply making the 4870 standard, and using three 2GB sticks instead of six 1GB sticks.

Buying a new 09 and looking at replacing the video card and all of the ram right off the bat is... wack.

[brendon2020]

can't wait for the new displays, if they are updated, been waiting for a new 30 for ages.

[snouter]

Jobs has adamantly expressed Adobe's own laziness as the result of weak flash support on Macs and Apple mobile device.

And the solution to Flash seems to be HTML5.

The solution would be letting me use my hardware as I see fit.

[DanBUK]

The "next level" is referring to SOFTWARE. Apple now is all about the user interface/ interaction. They are caring less and less about the latest, greatest graphics or processors. Meanwhile they are making great strides in UI and functionality.

I think they couldn't care less about blue ray. Apart from 20Gb backups, neither can I.

[Icaras]

can't wait for the new displays, if they are updated, been waiting for a new 30 for ages.

Seconded. They need to refresh this. It's just way overdue.

The solution would be letting me use my hardware as I see fit.

But this is a software issue, not hardware.


I think they couldn't care less about blue ray. Apart from 20Gb backups, neither can I.

Think 1080p + massively growing blu-ray user base + widespread movie industry support + higher demand for professional blu-ray authoring + subpar 720p only iTunes HD video quality. + weak, inferior broadband infrastructure

[snouter]

But this is a software issue, not hardware.

Apple is going out of their way to keep software off their hardware.

Got peanut butter, ain't got no jelly.

Got hamburger, ain't got no bun.

[TennisandMusic]

The "next level" is referring to SOFTWARE. Apple now is all about the user interface/ interaction. They are caring less and less about the latest, greatest graphics or processors. Meanwhile they are making great strides in UI and functionality.

I think they couldn't care less about blue ray. Apart from 20Gb backups, neither can I.


Great strides in UI? like...?

Their UI is out of date and clunky, and as a result functionality suffers. In my time with Windows 7 I found it much speedier to work on and deal with than OSX and it's goofy, but nice looking, dock.

In regards to "blu ray", I don't need it either, but MANY people want it. The problem is Apple is basically Steve Jobs land. If HE doesn't want it then NO ONE gets it. Does that make any sense? It doesn't to me, but the Apple religious types defend anything he does as the "one true way." If Steve Jobs came out and said he loves blu ray so it's going in every Mac as a standard, those same exact people would come out and rejoice saying NOW blu ray is good.

[bzollinger]

They need to step up the design, fix the RAM BS, push the envelope with a 12-core model, but release a more reasonable entry level machine.

I'd take a dual or quad core w/ 3.33Ghz clock speed over a 12 core machine anyday!

[300D]

I'd take a dual or quad core w/ 3.33Ghz clock speed over a 12 core machine anyday!

Then buy an iMac and you'll have exactly that.

[bzollinger]

Then buy an iMac and you'll have exactly that.

I've thought long and hard about that. But it won't meet my storage requirements of four internal HDDs, and the desire to have two internal optical drives. Also I'm in a constant dual monitor setup (which can be done on an iMac with some adapters..), so a dual DVI card is nice. Lastly it needs to have as many USB ports as possible.

I guess I should have included more of my requirements rather than just a few...:o

[300D]

long and hard
he he

and the desire to have two internal optical drives.
Why? Optical is dying. The last time I used my optical drive is to make a copy of the OS installer DVD onto a bootable USB flash drive (yes, for PPC). Made boot to reboot installation time 20x faster.

Lastly it needs to have as many USB ports as possible.
I hear somebody made an 80-port hub recently.

[bzollinger]

he he


Why? Optical is dying. The last time I used my optical drive is to make a copy of the OS installer DVD onto a bootable USB flash drive (yes, for PPC). Made boot to reboot installation time 20x faster.


I hear somebody made an 80-port hub recently.

I knew someone would like the long and hard part!:p

I use optical to back up all my CDs, and DVDs. Also it's still a very reliable long term backup medium if stored properly....And I commonly copy CDs for slideshows and what not.

I've got two 7-port USB hubs but have the typical USB problems after reboots..

[Eric S.]

I'm just trying to figure out what the next level could possibly mean? :D

I don't think he means the next level of tech. Whenever they bring out new revisions of Macs they're going to be at a higher technological level, that's just a given. More likely, "next level" here means greater market share, greater profitability, greater market penetration, that kind of thing.

[Techhie]

I don't think he means the next level of tech. Whenever they bring out new revisions of Macs they're going to be at a higher technological level, that's just a given. More likely, "next level" here means greater market share, greater profitability, greater market penetration, that kind of thing.

Usually when Steve Jobs uses those kinds of phrases it indicates a concrete physical change, not something abstract like market penetration.

[Varmann]

Usually when Steve Jobs uses those kinds of phrases it indicates a concrete physical change, not something abstract like market penetration.
Maybe back to the 80's, the next MacPro as a terminal to "the Cloud"?

In those days, I was the first at my institute using a desktop, everyone else worked with terminals to remote Crays and other big computers.

But that might be the 2012 edition...
(You get a sleek terminal and subscribe on certain amount of processing power) :)

[greygray]

Arrandale, Gulftown, the new Intel chips, and I want Apple's custom made A4 in the new Macbook Pros, and as an added bonus, a slight redesign.

[djdl]

As to the argument I also think "the next level" refers more to software.
We all know Snow Leopard was more about "under the hood" improvements, and that most of the hardware which it is being run upon really doesn't see much of what they have improved.

Like the whole Grand Central thing and the "virtual 16TB of RAM"

From what I understand, the new i7 processors etc are better equipped to take full advantage of that technology.

I'm expecting a new range of hardware, equipped with these processors and a completely new OS which full takes advantage of it all.

I'm no tech-head or full-on geek so you guys with a hell of a lot more knowledge than me will probably debunk my theory. That's just the way I see it.

[Techhie]

and I want Apple's custom made A4 in the new Macbook Pros

Why on Earth would you castrate a perfectly good laptop? :rolleyes:

[nanofrog]

Why on Earth would you castrate a perfectly good laptop? :rolleyes:
Precisely. The A4 is a custom variant of the Cortex 9 series (custom = features, not an overhaul of the core architecture), which is in now way a competitor to Intel's mobile CPU's (those used in laptops). In general (ARM 9 series), it is trying to compete with the Atom.

[Icaras]

Usually when Steve Jobs uses those kinds of phrases it indicates a concrete physical change, not something abstract like market penetration.

So you think the Mac lineup will undergo design changes this year? The iMac already had a facelift in October.

[diazj3]

Whenever they bring out new revisions of Macs they're going to be at a higher technological level, that's just a given.

I wouldn't hold my breath on this either. I agree: this sounds more like marketing slang. Every time they release new macs, they take them "to the next level", obviously... sometimes it's a big step, but 90% of the times its just incremental changes that result in small performance gains and/or cost savings for Apple. Big steps are usually surrounded by groundbreaking developments or choices ahead of them - such as Intel vs PPC, 64bit, etc - but there's nothing like that in the horizon for the next two years. And telling by Apple's financial results, they won't make any more bold decisions this year other than the iPad...

Just follow the money: no doubt Apple is serious about the pro market, but it is CRAZY about the consumer market.

[bzollinger]

I don't think a redesign of the Mac Pro is a BOLD decision. Certainly if done halfway decent, and the specs and price were to follow the change people would flock to the new MP.

If they were smart they'd offer a few "power user/enthusiast" models and then some truly professional models all with a slight redesign.

That would help with people with minis and iMacs that need scalability into the MP zone, and would please the Pros that need more power and better graphics options.

Those changes aren't even close to as bold as the iPad is.

[Techhie]

I don't think a redesign of the Mac Pro is a BOLD decision. Certainly if done halfway decent, and the specs and price were to follow the change people would flock to the new MP.

If they were smart they'd offer a few "power user/enthusiast" models and then some truly professional models all with a slight redesign.

That would help with people with minis and iMacs that need scalability into the MP zone, and would please the Pros that need more power and better graphics options.

Those changes aren't even close to as bold as the iPad is.

As long as the single socketed daughterboards are making a killing for Apple profit wise, I don't see why they would initiate a complete redesign, especially considering how well-regarded the overall design already is.

[nanofrog]

As long as the single socketed daughterboards are making a killing for Apple profit wise, I don't see why they would initiate a complete redesign, especially considering how well-regarded the overall design already is.
It doesn't make sense for Apple to go with a new board design, as the existing one can be used with the new chips via a microcode addition for the new CPU's. It's just not cost effective. That doesn't mean they can't swap newer spec'ed parts so long as the component's packaging is a drop-in replacement (i.e. USB 3.0 could be added this way). But SATA 6.0Gb/s would require additional parts (no new chipsets are due to release that will add this functionality, unlike the P55 chipset designed for the LGA1156 parts - not until the next architecture change = 2011 Tock cycle).

That's not the case when there's a new architecture involved, but won't be until the 2011 CPU's from Intel.

[bzollinger]

As long as the single socketed daughterboards are making a killing for Apple profit wise, I don't see why they would initiate a complete redesign, especially considering how well-regarded the overall design already is.

It is a well-regarded design, I agree with that. I'm suggesting a slight redesign to enhance an already great design, something on the outside to go with the improvements on the inside.

Look what they've done to the iMac. It has "evolved" then look what they've done with the PM and MP for the last 6 years or so.

"Oh look, that Mac tower has two optical drives!"

Big whoop...

[nanofrog]

It is a well-regarded design, I agree with that. I'm suggesting a slight redesign to enhance an already great design, something on the outside to go with the improvements on the inside.

Look what they've done to the iMac. It has "evolved" then look what they've done with the PM and MP for the last 6 years or so.

"Oh look, that Mac tower has two optical drives!"

Big whoop...
A new case design would be better left to a new board design. Apple chose to go with a main + daughter board design in order to shoe-horn the 2009 model into an existing case (that's been floating around since 2006, though the internals did change, as there was no choice, but it's not the same as tooling up for a completely new unit). That decision was purely financial, so a new one is highly doubtful IMO.

[kellen]

Give the xeons to the dual CPU and the I7's to the single machines. Drop the price of the six core to near imac levels. New case and that would be great.

But they are probably just talking about the price. +500 across the board, same case.

[nanofrog]

Give the xeons to the dual CPU and the I7's to the single machines. Drop the price of the six core to near imac levels. New case and that would be great.

But they are probably just talking about the price. +500 across the board, same case.
Intel's quantity pricing for the i7 and the SP Xeon's are the same (what they publish at any rate, as very high quantities could get vendor's a better deal). So you might as well go with the Xeon in order to offer ECC capability, even if it's not equiped with ECC RAM. It keeps the systems in the same league in that sense, though few users actually need ECC (since the Nehalem architecture parts no longer require ECC memory to function, as previous MP's did).

By using standard DDR3, they could lower the price that way. But as lowering said prices, the Quads could infringe on the iMac's sales, which I suspect have higher margins for Apple, not to mention higher sales numbers.

[bzollinger]

Give the xeons to the dual CPU and the I7's to the single machines. Drop the price of the six core to near imac levels. New case and that would be great.

But they are probably just talking about the price. +500 across the board, same case.

This is exactly what I think they should do!!

Intel's quantity pricing for the i7 and the SP Xeon's are the same (what they publish at any rate, as very high quantities could get vendor's a better deal). So you might as well go with the Xeon in order to offer ECC capability, even if it's not equiped with ECC RAM. It keeps the systems in the same league in that sense, though few users actually need ECC (since the Nehalem architecture parts no longer require ECC memory to function, as previous MP's did).

By using standard DDR3, they could lower the price that way. But as lowering said prices, the Quads could infringe on the iMac's sales, which I suspect have higher margins for Apple, not to mention higher sales numbers.

This might be the case. However I think we should be discussing what the consumers want/need not Apple's profit. It's smart to talk about it and speculate what they will do. But it's also important to tell them what we want from them! They are in the business to make computers for us! Sure there are people that will just buy whatever they make. I for one haven't purchased a new MP yet, because as is discussed here everyday, they've been taking the MP customers for granted.

Apple, take us to the next level but give us a little more for our $2400-8000 dollars!!:mad:

[Icaras]

This might be the case. However I think we should be discussing what the consumers want/need not Apple's profit. It's smart to talk about it and speculate what they will do. But it's also important to tell them what we want from them! They are in the business to make computers for us! Sure there are people that will just buy whatever they make. I for one haven't purchased a new MP yet, because as is discussed here everyday, they've been taking the MP customers for granted.

Apple, take us to the next level but give us a little more for our $2400-8000 dollars!!:mad:

Agreed with what you said. But that's the conundrum isn't it? They are definitely in the business of making computers for us, just not the ones the minority wants (i.e: the people in this thread).

You are right to say it is important to tell them what we want, but as a company, that translates to revenue. At this point, it seems to be very clear to Apple what their customers want. The chart that VirtualRain posts in this thread: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=855974&page=7 cements the picture to Apple that their customers want mobile devices and more gadgets.

In other words, the people have already spoken. Unfortunately. :(

[nanofrog]

This might be the case. However I think we should be discussing what the consumers want/need not Apple's profit.
My comment had nothing to do with profit, but technical reasons. No matter the i7 or Xeon variant, it's the same cost, so why not use the Xeon to have the ability to run ECC, if it's the same price.

It looks better on a spec sheet, whether or not the benefits are real for most users. I figure why not. Apple can use non ECC DDR3 to reduce the pricing and pass the savings on to users.

The rest of it (iMac vs. MP) issues are how Apple sees things, not my take. They want to make sure there's a solid definition between the lines, even if it's artificial (whether that means intentionally over-priced, or use some proprietary means to do so).

Personally, I see the definition as expansion. They can further separate them with other features as well (i.e. items users have requested), and use that as the defining characteristics (and justify the inevitable price difference between the lines). For example, things like more HDD bays (doable with an additional SATA or SAS chip on the board to provide the additional ports needed) would help to do that. An eSATA port/s (I'd like to see 2) is worth mentioning as well, especially as getting a bootable eSATA card for a MP is possible, but expensive add-on that eats a PCIe slot (quite precious to some users). It's another improvement many have desired and presume requested. ;) There are others of course, but hopefully you get the idea. :D

[peskaa]

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/04/intel-teases-six-core-gulftown-discusses-tera-scale-computing/


I'm expecting to see the six-core Gulftowns as the BTO top end options for both single and dual CPU systems, but with quad-cores still being the standard shipping option. The six-cores are going to be shockingly expensive, and simply not a sensible choice across the whole range.

So, I expect a line up similar to today except with a six/twelve-core BTO option available for a large stack of cash. ATi 5870 cards as the GPU upgrade, and the possibility of SSD.

[Icaras]

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/04/intel-teases-six-core-gulftown-discusses-tera-scale-computing/


I'm expecting to see the six-core Gulftowns as the BTO top end options for both single and dual CPU systems, but with quad-cores still being the standard shipping option. The six-cores are going to be shockingly expensive, and simply not a sensible choice across the whole range.

So, I expect a line up similar to today except with a six/twelve-core BTO option available for a large stack of cash. ATi 5870 cards as the GPU upgrade, and the possibility of SSD.

Do you think the quad core low end will see a price cut then?

[Techhie]

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/04/intel-teases-six-core-gulftown-discusses-tera-scale-computing/


I'm expecting to see the six-core Gulftowns as the BTO top end options for both single and dual CPU systems, but with quad-cores still being the standard shipping option. The six-cores are going to be shockingly expensive, and simply not a sensible choice across the whole range.

So, I expect a line up similar to today except with a six/twelve-core BTO option available for a large stack of cash. ATi 5870 cards as the GPU upgrade, and the possibility of SSD.

If they were to do this and call it an "update", they might as well say goodbye to me (and many other people) as a future customer.

[ARF900]

A multi-touch keyboard would be nice. and portrait swivel stands for new displays.

now that would be what I call innovation, the applications would be endless.

[nanofrog]

If they were to do this and call it an "update", they might as well say goodbye to me (and many other people) as a future customer.
I really do think it will be like '07. Same board, case,... but with new CPU's as an option. That's it, as it makes financial sense (no additional R&D required on the hardware, just new microcode added to handle the new 6 core CPU's).

[Dr.Pants]

If they were to do this and call it an "update", they might as well say goodbye to me (and many other people) as a future customer.

Indeed.

However, last time I saw a list of the expected variants for the 6-core chips, there was only one single-core 36xx series Xeon that corresponded to a single non-Xeon chip. The rest were 56xx series. Maybe a quad, hexa, and dudeca option could be expected.

I'll try and dig up that list. Eidorian posted it, IIRC.

At anyrate, I'd rather have Thuban for my dudeca-core rendering farm since a dual-processor Gulftown machine would be out of my price range for a good long time.

[Icaras]

I really do think it will be like '07. Same board, case,... but with new CPU's as an option. That's it, as it makes financial sense (no additional R&D required on the hardware, just new microcode added to handle the new 6 core CPU's).

I know this has probably been discussed before but do you also think there will be a chance the quad core will actually stay?

[pooryou]

Hate to be the wet blanket, but when Steve refers to 'new macs' these days, I don't think you can assume he's talking about the Mac Pro. Maybe he is (that would be my hope) but realistically he may actually be referring to the iMac, Mac Mini, hell even laptops.

[Techhie]

I know this has probably been discussed before but do you also think there will be a chance the quad core will actually stay?

It might, but with a reduced price point. The 6-core will likely fill the $2,499 slot, and then 12-core at $3,200.

Hopefully all will have some sort of improved hardware outside of the CPU, else it wont be a very worthwhile update.

[Icaras]

It might, but with a reduced price point. The 6-core will likely fill the $2,499 slot, and then 12-core at $3,200.

Hopefully all will have some sort of improved hardware outside of the CPU, else it wont be a very worthwhile update.

This is what will most likely tip the balance for me in deciding on the new Mac Pro. If they can possibly deliver a quad core at a price point closer to $1999, then Apple will make a Mac Pro customer out of me yet.

My budget is tight and even though I may not get the best bang for my buck with the quad core version or even the low end six core, my primary reason for wanting the Mac Pro to begin with is for expandability.

[Techhie]

This is what will most likely tip the balance for me in deciding on the new Mac Pro. If they can possibly deliver a quad core at a price point closer to $1999, then Apple will make a Mac Pro customer out of me yet.

My budget is tight and even though I may not get the best bang for my buck with the quad core version or even the low end six core, my primary reason for wanting the Mac Pro to begin with is for expandability.

You should consider the '08, as the '10 will likely be unimpressive.

[Icaras]

You should consider the '08, as the '10 will likely be unimpressive.

Yea i know, those 08's are very popular here :D And I know Nano is a strong proponent for it too. Current refurb 08s at the Apple store are out of my price range unfortunately.

I'm just very curious to see the 10's first though, since its just right around the corner. I really want to see how awful the value/power everyone thinks it will be. :p

[Techhie]

Yea i know, those 08's are very popular here :D And I know Nano is a strong proponent for it too. Current refurb 08s at the Apple store are out of my price range unfortunately.

I'm just very curious to see the 10's first though, since its just right around the corner. I really want to see how awful the value/power everyone thinks it will be. :p

It is also worth waiting simply because of the reduction of street price after an update (regardless of what that update is)

I've seen several 2.8 GHz '08 models on eBay hovering around $2,000 lately, but I'm going to wait until the new models are introduced until I pull a trigger.

[chet.d]

Yea i know, those 08's are very popular here :D And I know Nano is a strong proponent for it too. Current refurb 08s at the Apple store are out of my price range unfortunately.

I'm just very curious to see the 10's first though, since its just right around the corner. I really want to see how awful the value/power everyone thinks it will be. :p


I was also soooo waiting...and coming from a MDD dual 867 no less :o
But, I needed to act. I decided that my budget dictates that waiting for the 2010 mac pro just isn't as important as getting back to work with a decent machine.

Just brought home on Tuesday a late 2008 2.8 8 core, 6 months of Apple care left and will buy the 2 years more option, 16 gigs of ram, 80 gig intel SSD for boot! + apps, 360 gig HD for audio samples. - $2500
(need to get a 3rd 1TB for tracking)
...I got very lucky with craigslist NY. :D Don't mean to boast, I was due for a break, trust me. I'm thankful.

So thanks in NO small part to Nano for much guidance.
A UAD 2 Quad will be gently dropped into the Pcie slot and tracking will soon ensue, following a studio re-vamp :p

[chet.d]

It is also worth waiting simply because of the reduction of street price after an update (regardless of what that update is)

I've seen several 2.8 GHz '08 models on eBay hovering around $2,000 lately, but I'm going to wait until the new models are introduced until I pull a trigger.

That's been my thinking as well. I just needed to get back to work and to me, the 2.8 I just got seemed like too good a deal to pass up.

I also felt that I'd need to let the dust settle on the 2010 for a few months and see... well that and I just can't muster much more than I just spent.

[Icaras]

I was also soooo waiting...and coming from a MDD dual 867 no less :o
But, I needed to act. I decided that my budget dictates that waiting for the 2010 mac pro just isn't as important as getting back to work with a decent machine.

Just brought home on Tuesday a late 2008 2.8 8 core, 6 months of Apple care left and will buy the 2 years more option, 16 gigs of ram, 80 gig intel SSD for boot! + apps, 360 gig HD for audio samples. - $2500
(need to get a 3rd 1TB for tracking)
...I got very lucky with craigslist NY. :D Don't mean to boast, I was due for a break, trust me. I'm thankful.

So thanks in NO small part to Nano for much guidance.
A UAD 2 Quad will be gently dropped into the Pcie slot and tracking will soon ensue, following a studio re-vamp :p

Congratulations! Nice system! And nice buy too. Damn, 16GB of RAM and SSD for that price. I am full of envy right now :o

I'm sure you'll have tons of fun (and hours of productive work of course :p) with your machine. Great investment you have there.

[nanofrog]

I know this has probably been discussed before but do you also think there will be a chance the quad core will actually stay?
Well, I've not yet seen a full model list, but I presume there won't be many SP parts (which actually makes sense IMO, as there's still a market for Quad cores), so YES.

It might, but with a reduced price point. The 6-core will likely fill the $2,499 slot, and then 12-core at $3,200.
The Quads won't fall, as Xeon chips don't fall. That's just a fact that must be dealt with as-is unfortunately. And I don't see Apple deciding to reduce their margins to lower the prices.

It should be expected that the Gulftown models will be more expensive as well than their closest Nehalem (i.e. clock speed), as there's both an additional pair of cores and a die shrink to pay for. It won't come for free.

Hopefully all will have some sort of improved hardware outside of the CPU, else it wont be a very worthwhile update.
There's not much that can be done, as the existing board will almost certainly be used for the new parts (only an update to the firmware to allow the new chips to work).

This is what will most likely tip the balance for me in deciding on the new Mac Pro. If they can possibly deliver a quad core at a price point closer to $1999, then Apple will make a Mac Pro customer out of me yet.
I'd be totally floored if that actually happens. The existing parts won't get a significant drop in price (i.e. look at the 5365 Xeons desired for '06 systems to get them to Octads).

My budget is tight and even though I may not get the best bang for my buck with the quad core version or even the low end six core, my primary reason for wanting the Mac Pro to begin with is for expandability.
You've a couple of possibilities.

1. Get a refurb that's in your price range, which could be either a 2.8GHz '08 Octad (when/if one shows, and you must be able to be patient and wait for one to do so), or one of the '09 Quads (2.66GHz is the most likely) to fit in say a ~$2500 budget, not including extended Apple Care (no matter which machine is selected), or upgrades.

2. Buy used, where the '08 models would make more sense (as you'd want an '09 from the refurb store). Hopefully, you can find one already with extended Apple Care, or still has the ability to get it.

Personally, the '08 is a better system for you, as it can grow with your software needs due to 8 physical cores. ;)

You should consider the '08, as the '10 will likely be unimpressive.
Absolutely. ;)

[Techhie]

2. Buy used, where the '08 models would make more sense (as you'd want an '09 from the refurb store). Hopefully, you can find one already with extended Apple Care, or still has the ability to get it.

Personally, the '08 is a better system for you, as it can grow with your software needs due to 8 physical cores. ;)


Hopefully the '08 systems will come down a bit more in light of updates, I need more RAM and as well as a better GPU to drive these displays (and maybe an SSD for boot?) :rolleyes:

[hoya87eagle91]

The Quads won't fall, as Xeon chips don't fall. That's just a fact that must be dealt with as-is unfortunately. And I don't see Apple deciding to reduce their margins to lower the prices.


1. Get a refurb that's in your price range, which could be either a 2.8GHz '08 Octad (when/if one shows, and you must be able to be patient and wait for one to do so), or one of the '09 Quads (2.66GHz is the most likely) to fit in say a ~$2500 budget, not including extended Apple Care (no matter which machine is selected), or upgrades.





I just picked up a refurb 2009 2.66 quad for $2150 . Haven't even opened it and have another week or so to return it. Your pricing rationale seems reasonable. If the new quads will be priced about $2500, would it be wise to hold on to this and save $350 rather than wait for a 2101 quad at $2500?

[Icaras]

You've a couple of possibilities.

1. Get a refurb that's in your price range, which could be either a 2.8GHz '08 Octad (when/if one shows, and you must be able to be patient and wait for one to do so), or one of the '09 Quads (2.66GHz is the most likely) to fit in say a ~$2500 budget, not including extended Apple Care (no matter which machine is selected), or upgrades.

2. Buy used, where the '08 models would make more sense (as you'd want an '09 from the refurb store). Hopefully, you can find one already with extended Apple Care, or still has the ability to get it.

Personally, the '08 is a better system for you, as it can grow with your software needs due to 8 physical cores. ;)

I just picked up a refurb 2009 2.66 quad for $2150 . Haven't even opened it and have another week or so to return it. Your pricing rationale seems reasonable. If the new quads will be priced about $2500, would it be wise to hold on to this and save $350 rather than wait for a 2101 quad at $2500?

Nice, thanks again Nano (and everyone) for their knowledge and advice. I was just looking at the refurb store and saw the same $2150 2009 2.66 quad. Pretty tempting at that price....

[Icaras]

I just picked up a refurb 2009 2.66 quad for $2150 . Haven't even opened it and have another week or so to return it. Your pricing rationale seems reasonable. If the new quads will be priced about $2500, would it be wise to hold on to this and save $350 rather than wait for a 2101 quad at $2500?

Btw, I don't know how much tax you had to pay, but here in California, tax is 9.25% and for me, it would actually be cheaper to buy a brand new '09 quad 2.66 at somewhere like Amazon or J&R, where tax is not included. And both sites mentioned usually sell the base Mac Pro for $2299 flat.

[Abyssgh0st]

I know what Steve Jobs was talking about; a Mac Pro tower with the revolutionary Celeron processor! Reason being is because a 12" touch screen is being added to the side of the tower as an efficient way to view your CPU temps.

[peskaa]

Do you think the quad core low end will see a price cut then?

No. They won't be using the same CPUs, and Xeons don't move much anyway. So, the models available may be:

1) Quad (Two models)
2) Six-core (One model)
3) Octo (Two models)
4) Dual six-core (One model)

I'd find that line up quite interesting actually, as it offers quite a lot of range in terms of core numbers. However, I can see Apple backing out of some of those options to reduce the number of lines available, but who knows.

[chet.d]

Congratulations! Nice system! And nice buy too. Damn, 16GB of RAM and SSD for that price. I am full of envy right now :o

I'm sure you'll have tons of fun (and hours of productive work of course :p) with your machine. Great investment you have there.

Hey thanks.

I'm waiting for a software upgrade (from nuendo 3 to 4) and need to get a 3 rd drive. So she's taunting me just sitting there till I can make the switch in the studio. :rolleyes:
I so can't wait.

[cjmillsnun]

The solution would be letting me use my hardware as I see fit.

Actually not. How are standards to advance if people carry on using the same old crap. Case in point is the pain web developers are going through with IE6.

Flash is a buggy, slow, inefficient piece of crap that deserves to die. Rich content can be served using other means that are efficient and open standards.

Until big companies drop support for these old technologies, then we won't move to the next level.

[snouter]

The solution would be letting me use my hardware as I see fit.

Actually not. How are standards to advance if people carry on using the same old crap. Case in point is the pain web developers are going through with IE6.

Last time I checked, IE6 was software.

[nanofrog]

I just picked up a refurb 2009 2.66 quad for $2150 . Haven't even opened it and have another week or so to return it. Your pricing rationale seems reasonable. If the new quads will be priced about $2500, would it be wise to hold on to this and save $350 rather than wait for a 2101 quad at $2500?
I'll presume you're well aware of the technical issues/bugs, and can deal with it since nothing has been done so far, and officially it's not even acknowledged.

That said, I'd keep it, as I don't expect a price drop on the next system release. It's harder to say about future models, but given the general direction, Intel's prices are rising, and Apple's desire for high margins, I wouldn't expect a price drop to occur then either.

There'd have to be major changes in what gets used component wise to make a drastic reduction in manufacturing costs for that to happen.

Nice, thanks again Nano (and everyone) for their knowledge and advice. I was just looking at the refurb store and saw the same $2150 2009 2.66 quad. Pretty tempting at that price....
Given your budget, it seems to be the best way to go IMO. But as it was mentioned, consider the pricing with taxes and shipping with other sources such as Amazon. ;)

Worth a few minutes to price shop anyway. :p

[akadmon]

If they can possibly deliver a quad core at a price point closer to $1999, then Apple will make a Mac Pro customer out of me yet.


:D:D Thanks for a good laugh, man!

Apple is more likely to deliver a 6-core MP to your doorstep for $1999 (I'm talking about shipping cost here, so don't get excited) than it is to sell one to you at this price.

[Icaras]

:D:D Thanks for a good laugh, man!

Apple is more likely to deliver a 6-core MP to your doorstep for $1999 (I'm talking about shipping cost here, so don't get excited) than it is to sell one to you at this price.

Can't a poor man just have his Mac Pro already?

Wait, don't answer that. :p

Anyway, at $1999 doorstep delivery, I should expect Mr. Jobs to hand deliver it with his top hat on. :D

[nanofrog]

Anyway, at $1999 doorstep delivery, I should expect Mr. Jobs to hand deliver it with his top hat on. :D
Yeah right. I'd think he'd charge you $1999 just to tell you "Piss off". :eek: :D :p

[Nermal]

Anyway, at $1999 doorstep delivery, I should expect Mr. Jobs to hand deliver it with his top hat on. :D

I seem to recall that one system (TAM?) had an option to be delivered by limo.

[DarwinOSX]

Being as PCs already have i3, i5 and i7 laptops, $1000 i7 desktops, USB 3 is starting to show up and they've been Blu-Ray capable for a while now... the next level must be something out of this world.

It's not like the ever innovative Apple to merely play catch-up. ;)

They need to get back to iFundmentals.

i3, i5, and i7 laptops have only been out a matter of weeks for PC's. Except for a few i7's that were essentially laptops that had to stay plugged in all the time and put out huge amounts of heat. Hardly anyone cares about Blu-Ray on PC's but Apple should offer it anyway. $1000 i7 desktop PC's is an area Apple needs to work on. I no longer want an iMac. I want a mid level desktop between the current workstation level Mac Pro and the iMac. Actually I have always wanted that. USB 3.0 is a yawner but is likely to be the new standard at some point. FireWire has lots of room to grow but there has been no hint of anything beyond FW800 and Apple will probably not provide it.

[DarwinOSX]

That said, I'd keep it, as I don't expect a price drop on the next system release.

Apple has dropped prices while increasing performance on every generation of Mac Pro. My dual G5 was $3500. Current low end Mac Pro is $2499 retail. I would not be surprised to see that drop at least a few hundred $$ but start with the new six core procs. Intels proc prices have decreased steadily.

[Eric S.]

$1000 i7 desktop PC's is an area Apple needs to work on. I no longer want an iMac. I want a mid level desktop between the current workstation level Mac Pro and the iMac. Actually I have always wanted that.

Yes, exactly. I got tired of waiting for something that wasn't coming.

[Concorde Rules]

Apple has dropped prices while increasing performance on every generation of Mac Pro. My dual G5 was $3500. Current low end Mac Pro is $2499 retail. I would not be surprised to see that drop at least a few hundred $$ but start with the new six core procs. Intels proc prices have decreased steadily.

My bottom end G4 MDD was £1300. This bottom end Mac Pro (with HE discount!) was £1900.

They've gone up more than inflation... ;)

[nanofrog]

Apple has dropped prices while increasing performance on every generation of Mac Pro. My dual G5 was $3500. Current low end Mac Pro is $2499 retail. I would not be surprised to see that drop at least a few hundred $$ but start with the new six core procs. Intels proc prices have decreased steadily.
No. The '09's increased prices, and the performance was inverted in some cases.

Take the fact you can get a 3.2GHz '08 Octad for the same $$$ ($3299) as the base 2.26GHz '09 Octad, yet the '08 is faster for both single and multi-threaded applications. Granted, the 3.2GHz is in the refurb store, but the performance difference is notable (reverse), and hasn't been inverted like this before IIRC.

Then look at the Quads in the same model years. The '08's used more expensive CPU's than the '09's (i.e. E5462 was nearly $800USD when they released, while the W3520 is $284USD; parts used in the base models). Prices did NOT fall accordingly, as the '09 Quads actually cost more, not less. Yet the processor is cheaper for the '09.

You're argument may have held true in previous model years, but recent pricing changes ('09 models) and lower CPU performance changes have destroyed the value aspect of the equation.

Xeon's are expensive, and don't typically come down in price. For example, check the prices on X5365's (new), and see what they go for. Now you seriously think Intel's going to give us an extra pair of cores via a die shrink for free (32nm process that still needs to be paid for; and offer the same price and clockspeeds with an extra 2 cores)?

You're crazy! :eek: :p

[Concorde Rules]

No. The '09's increased prices, and the performance was inverted in some cases.

Take the fact you can get a 3.2GHz '08 Octad for the same $$$ ($3299) as the base 2.26GHz '09 Octad, yet the '08 is faster for both single and multi-threaded applications. Granted, the 3.2GHz is in the refurb store, but the performance difference is notable (reverse), and hasn't been inverted like this before IIRC.

Then look at the Quads in the same model years. The '08's used more expensive CPU's than the '09's (i.e. E5462 was nearly $800USD when they released, while the W3520 is $284USD; parts used in the base models). Prices did NOT fall accordingly, as the '09 Quads actually cost more, not less. Yet the processor is cheaper for the '09.

You're argument may have held true in previous model years, but recent pricing changes ('09 models) and lower CPU performance changes have destroyed the value aspect of the equation.

Xeon's are expensive, and don't typically come down in price. For example, check the prices on X5365's (new), and see what they go for. Now you seriously think Intel's going to give us an extra pair of cores via a die shrink for free (32nm process that still needs to be paid for; and offer the same price and clockspeeds with an extra 2 cores)?

You're crazy! :eek: :p

This man speaketh the truth!

I should have bought a 2008, but I use virtulisation and get a 3 year warranty so thats a no from me :(

[bzollinger]

Yes, exactly. I got tired of waiting for something that wasn't coming.

This is what a lot of "converts" seem to want. As apple gets more people to buy macs they are going to need to address this need. At first someone may just have a laptop or an iPhone. Once they r hooked into the mac camp they don't see any reason they can't get a comparable desktop. When they check the mac store and the entry level machine is $2400 with insufficeint ram among other things they shake their head and buy a PC or sit here and try to send apple the message (like me). BTW I have filled out apples mac pro feedback form...

[kudukudu]

I am one of those who was hoping for an enthusiast tower that didn't use Xeons, FB-DIMMS, etc. but I broke down and got the early 2008 mac pro. While I am very happy with my purchase and love the power and expandability, I cannot help but lament what seems to be a lack of attention and focus on computers by Apple.

When I got a G4 15" powerbook back in 2003 this machine was completely cutting edge and had stuff in it that wouldn't appear in comparable PC notebooks for years: FW400, FW800, DVI, USB 2.0, Bluetooth, S-video out, wireless B/G. There is arguably nothing wrong with the current line of macbook pros, but apple notebooks are no longer ahead of the curve in terms of technology and in some cases they are now behind (e.g. Dells with DVI, HDMI, USB 3.0).

If Apple were building laptops today like they were 5 years ago, the latest macbook pros would certainly have HDMI (powerbook had s-video out), USB 3.0, build in 3G, etc.

[alphaod]

If Apple were building laptops today like they were 5 years ago, the latest macbook pros would certainly have HDMI (powerbook had s-video out), USB 3.0, build in 3G, etc.

If Apple were building computers like they did 5 years ago, I wouldn't have switched and I'm sure a lot of people I know who switched would not have either.

I know what Steve Jobs was talking about; a Mac Pro tower with the revolutionary Celeron processor!

That's be something; a $3000 Celeron powered Mac Pro.

Hate to be the wet blanket, but when Steve refers to 'new macs' these days, I don't think you can assume he's talking about the Mac Pro. Maybe he is (that would be my hope) but realistically he may actually be referring to the iMac, Mac Mini, hell even laptops.

Probably not the iMac seeing they were just updated.

I'd expect the Mac mini to be updated when the notebooks are… unless of course they'll do it like the 2007 release that didn't get updated until 2 years later.


Can they do dual processor without using Xeon chips?

Yes, switch to Opteron processors.

[nanofrog]

When I got a G4 15" powerbook back in 2003 this machine was completely cutting edge and had stuff in it that wouldn't appear in comparable PC notebooks for years: FW400, FW800, DVI, USB 2.0, Bluetooth, S-video out, wireless B/G. There is arguably nothing wrong with the current line of macbook pros, but apple notebooks are no longer ahead of the curve in terms of technology and in some cases they are now behind (e.g. Dells with DVI, HDMI, USB 3.0).
Despite the fact those systems had hardware that was ahead of other vendors, it was still more of a closed system. PPC chips and OS X weren't used by other vendors, and made the systems unique.

Now however, the CPU's are from Intel like everyone else (though other vendors will offer AMD as well), and only the firmware separates the systems from other vendors. So essentially now there's 100% parity in terms of hardware (CPU's, chipsets,...), save Apple's changes to remain proprietary, such as MDP rather than more accepted graphics interface ports (hardware, not other areas such as industrial design = asthetics).

[beaker7]

No. The '09's increased prices, and the performance was inverted in some cases.

Take the fact you can get a 3.2GHz '08 Octad for the same $$$ ($3299) as the base 2.26GHz '09 Octad, yet the '08 is faster for both single and multi-threaded applications.



Not always.

From my testing:

2008 Mac Pro 8-core 3.2 Ghz: $4599
Benchwell: 1205

2009 Mac Pro 8-core 2.26 Ghz: $3299
Benchwell: 1698

[J the Ninja]

Despite the fact those systems had hardware that was ahead of other vendors, it was still more of a closed system. PPC chips and OS X weren't used by other vendors, and made the systems unique.

Now however, the CPU's are from Intel like everyone else (though other vendors will offer AMD as well), and only the firmware separates the systems from other vendors. So essentially now there's 100% parity in terms of hardware (CPU's, chipsets,...), save Apple's changes to remain proprietary, such as MDP rather than more accepted graphics interface ports (hardware, not other areas such as industrial design = asthetics).

Arguably, MDP is technically superior to anything they could have used, it just makes it a bit of pain in the ass with a lot of displays.

And really, their use of it has helped push along DisplayPort in general.

[nanofrog]

Not always.

From my testing:

2008 Mac Pro 8-core 3.2 Ghz: $4599
Benchwell: 1205

2009 Mac Pro 8-core 2.26 Ghz: $3299
Benchwell: 1698
I'm not familiar with that benchmarking program.

My comment is based one compiled results from the forum under Cinebench, which was conveniently made into a chart by another member. ;)

[nanofrog]

Arguably, MDP is technically superior to anything they could have used, it just makes it a bit of pain in the ass with a lot of displays.

And really, their use of it has helped push along DisplayPort in general.
I wasn't referring to technical reasons, just the fact they took an existing standard, ripped out audio, and created a different connector no one else was using at that time.

It may become more widely accepted, and if it helps to push DisplayPort, fine. But so far, it's not that common. Save the 24" ACD, I've not spotted any other monitor that supports it natively (no adapters required). Besides, even thier laptops could have used standard DisplayPort if that's the technical standard they wished to use.

But ultimately, it was mentioned to illustrate Apple's desire to have proprietary systems. ;)

[beaker7]

I'm not familiar with that benchmarking program.

My comment is based one compiled results from the forum under Cinebench, which was conveniently made into a chart by another member. ;)

For most users it holds true. In probably 90% of situations the 2008 3.2 will be faster.

Benchwell is based on Maxwell Render, a ludicrously well-threaded rendering application that scales nearly linearly with cores and ghz.

[nanofrog]

For most users it holds true. In probably 90% of situations the 2008 3.2 will be faster.

Benchwell is based on Maxwell Render, a ludicrously well-threaded rendering application that scales nearly linearly with cores and ghz.
I looked at the page for it (About section), but I don't know any more details than that (i.e. how well does it scale with the differences in memory architecture - DDR2 dual channel vs. DDR3 triple channel).

As you say, with most, Cinebench's results would apply, particularly since there's precious little software that can actually utilize DDR3 in a triple channel configuration. But what does, can benefit substantially with the Nehalem architecture vs. Penryn used in the older MP's.

[TheStrudel]

But ultimately, it was mentioned to illustrate Apple's desire to have proprietary systems. ;)

I just wanted to bring up that it wasn't, and remains definitely not proprietary (anybody can use it as part of the spec). I think that was true for mini-DVI as well since other companies could make the adapters.

Unique to ? Sure. But please don't say proprietary. It drove me nuts how they said AAC was "Apple's proprietary" in tech websites and elsewhere for years, when it never was. It's only proprietary if they lock the tech down under their control and is not part of an open standard;  certainly never owned AAC.

This may sound like nitpicking, and it may well be, but it's annoying to see that spread around.

[nanofrog]

I just wanted to bring up that it wasn't, and remains definitely not proprietary (anybody can use it as part of the spec). I think that was true for mini-DVI as well since other companies could make the adapters.

Unique to ? Sure. But please don't say proprietary. It drove me nuts how they said AAC was "Apple's proprietary" in tech websites and elsewhere for years, when it never was. It's only proprietary if they lock the tech down under their control and is not part of an open standard;  certainly never owned AAC.

This may sound like nitpicking, and it may well be, but it's annoying to see that spread around.
I'm looking at it from it's origins. They took a royalty free standard, and made a custom connector (eliminating the audio). The signal specs such as voltages, frequencies, bandwidth,... didn't really change.

They later opened it to the public. But it's not caught on yet, and is essentially exclusive to Apple (though there is a 5870 with 6x MDP's on it to solve the space problem that existed with that many of the larger DisplayPort connectors on a dual PCI bracket and still allow for venting).

But in terms of monitors, I've not spotted a single non-Apple unit that has a MDP connector in it. DisplayPort, yes, and can be used with an adapter (others as well, but the MDP to DVI requires circuits so isn't nearly as inexpensive as MDP to DP).

[TheStrudel]

I'm pretty sure the Samsung 6-monitor eyefinity setup with reduced bezels is probably going to use MDP too. But we'll see more stuff pop up as time goes by. Also, can't MDP carry sound, but  just doesn't have software support for it? So only OS X can't get it?

[nanofrog]

I'm pretty sure the Samsung 6-monitor eyefinity setup with reduced bezels is probably going to use MDP too.
Dunno, as I've not looked into it.

But we'll see more stuff pop up as time goes by. Also, can't MDP carry sound, but  just doesn't have software support for it? So only OS X can't get it?
The pin count and signals are technically the same, but Apple changed the pin-outs, and the signals won't match up. (MDP wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_DisplayPort) and DP wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort) both have the pin-outs listed).

There's a good chance they never created the software on their end, and they don't care about other developers (hardware or software). There are work-arounds with other interface buses (USB, TOSLINK, or FW), but none allow the audio signals to be carried on the MDP cables.