Kerry on the Daily Show [Archive]

kuyu

Aug 25, 2004, 11:34 AM

Did anyone else see this interview last night? I thought Kerry came off as nice and intelligent. Of course Jon Stewart was funny, and asked him some good questions.

My two favorites were "Yes or no. Everytime I use ketchup, does your wife get a nickel?" Answer: "Were it so!!!"

"I've been watching the 24 hour cable news, and apparently you were never in Vietnam" Answer: "That's what I heard too."

Kerry said he was looking forward to the debates, but that it wasn't going to be really easy. He commented that Bush had never lost a debate.

I thought he made a good point in saying that we are sick of 527's telling us that mudslinging is all that matters this campaign. He feels that we really want to focus on issues, not history. Here here!

katchow

Aug 25, 2004, 12:48 PM

i thought he came across very well...and the show had some jilarious moments too. i loved the little girl as the 'oil company's' spokesperson. and the quote by kerry later, i paraphrase, "this not a problem we can drill ourselves out of. it requires invention..." (talking about our dependance on foreign oil)

mactastic

Aug 25, 2004, 01:19 PM

I heard it as I was working late last night. Funny stuff.

LeeTom

Aug 25, 2004, 01:26 PM

Yeah,
I have seen some clips of Kerry's speeches on TV, and haven't been all too impressed. Seeing him in a relaxed sit-down atmosphere really raised my opinion of him. I don't think Bush would be quite as easy in a situation like that...
like when he sat down on one of the cable news shows last week with his wife and talked about stem cell research. He seemed so defensive all the time, and his wife would jump in for him at times.
Maybe that's why you have to sign an oath that you will vote for him to go to any of his campaign Q&A sessions.

Lee Tom

pseudobrit

Aug 25, 2004, 04:35 PM

Answer: "Were it so!!!"

"Would that it were" was his reply. I remember because at that moment I thought about how I'd never heard anything closely articulate a use of the language by our current president.

In fact, I can't even imagine the words "would that it were" leaving GW's mouth.

IJ Reilly

Aug 25, 2004, 04:43 PM

In fact, I can't even imagine the words "would that it were" leaving GW's mouth.

I can, just not in that order.

Yes, John Kerry does seem to speak in complete sentences, like Bill Clinton before him. They are long and full of dependent clauses, commas and semicolons. IOW, he seems like a bright guy. Unfortunately, smart doesn't count for much in American politics.

zimv20

Aug 25, 2004, 04:48 PM

I can, just not in that order.
rotflmao

Unfortunately, smart doesn't count for much in American politics.
i don't think it counts for much in american society at large.

blackfox

Aug 25, 2004, 04:52 PM

maybe not, but at least it counts for something here in the "hallowed halls" of the MR Politics/War Forum...

All hope is not yet lost...

kuyu

Aug 25, 2004, 04:55 PM

"Would that it were" was his reply. I remember because at that moment I thought about how I'd never heard anything closely articulate a use of the language by our current president.

In fact, I can't even imagine the words "would that it were" leaving GW's mouth.

That's right. I knew it was something close to that. Forgive me, I was high.

themadchemist

Aug 25, 2004, 07:36 PM

Forgive me, I was high.

Trust me when I say I've heard that excuse before.

skunk

Aug 25, 2004, 07:37 PM

I've given that excuse before... :D

macsrus

Aug 25, 2004, 08:28 PM

I can, just not in that order.

Yes, John Kerry does seem to speak in complete sentences, like Bill Clinton before him. They are long and full of dependent clauses, commas and semicolons. IOW, he seems like a bright guy. Unfortunately, smart doesn't count for much in American politics.

Being a good speaker does not in itself denote Intelligence....

This is the same old diatribe repeated year after year....

Every Democratic President or Presidential Candidate is an Intellectual....
While every Republican President or Candidate is a moron....

Everyone knows that Bush is not a good speaker....
Everyone should know that he graduated from Yale, and received his masters from Harvard.... The man is not dumb

So enough is enough

If you disagree with someones policies.... Fine... don't vote for them...
But lets drop the intellectual/moron rhetoric

LeeTom

Aug 25, 2004, 08:33 PM

Being a good speaker does not in itself denote Intelligence....

On the contrary, good communication is ESSENTIAL to the job of the president of the U.S. I believe Kennedy and Reagan were able to leverage our position in certain ways by using their communication skills. (Kennedy got us out of the cuban missile crisis, and Reagan got us out of the cold war).

A significant (and valid) reason why people dislike Bush is he strained our relations with many strong allies, because he wasn't able to communicate properly. Reagan may have been able to give the same terms and gotten better results, entirely because of the nuances of language.

my 2 cents
Lee Tom

blackfox

Aug 25, 2004, 08:35 PM

Being a good speaker does not in itself denote Intelligence....

This is the same old diatribe repeated year after year....

Every Democratic President or Presidential Candidate is an Intellectual....
While every Republican President or Candidate is a moron....

Everyone knows that Bush is not a good speaker....
Everyone should know that he graduated from Yale, and received his masters from Harvard.... The man is not dumb

So enough is enough

If you disagree with someones policies.... Fine... don't vote for them...
But lets drop the intellectual/moron rhetoric

I will stop propogating the perception (incorrect) that he is an idiot and a moron, when he stops propogating the perception (incorrect) that he is an "everyman, man-of-the-people, aw-shucks cowboy-type, regular average guy..."

macsrus

Aug 25, 2004, 08:44 PM

On the contrary, good communication is ESSENTIAL to the job of the president of the U.S.

While I don't disagree with your statment here....It does not have anything to do with whether or not...... being a good speaker by itself denotes intellegence

I believe Kennedy and Reagan were able to leverage our position in certain ways by using their communication skills. (Kennedy got us out of the cuban missile crisis, and Reagan got us out of the cold war).

I will save the Kennedy arguments for another day....

A significant (and valid) reason why people dislike Bush is he strained our relations with many strong allies, because he wasn't able to communicate properly. Reagan may have been able to give the same terms and gotten better results, entirely because of the nuances of language.

I disagree with this... If he was the worlds best orator, he still would have strained our relations with some allies( Although some of those allies have historically been only fair weather friends at best).
[/QUOTE]

LeeTom

Aug 25, 2004, 08:50 PM

I disagree with this... If he was the worlds best orator, he still would have strained our relations with some allies( Although some of those allies have historically been only fair weather friends at best).

I disagree. Good diplomacy would have greatly helped our position. I believe we could have done the same thing, with better results, if we had been more keen diplomatically.
A good leader requires good diplomacy skills.
Good diplomacy skills require good communication.
Bush is not a good communicator.
Therefore, following my logic, Bush is not (carry the one, multiply...) oh yes! Bush is not a good leader!

Lee Tom

Neserk

Aug 25, 2004, 09:19 PM

Poor speaking ability does not necessarily indicate low intelligence.

However, a good oral communication, when it is extemporaneous, does.

Idiots can't think on their feet ;)

LeeTom

Aug 25, 2004, 09:37 PM

Here's a good analysis of Kerry on the Jon Stewart show, on the Media Notes column by Howard Kurtz of the Washington Post. For what it's worth, this is a pretty good column to read, as he quotes many different sources so you can see how the press is reacting to things.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/columns/kurtzhoward/

Lee Tom

wwworry

Aug 25, 2004, 10:16 PM

This is the same old diatribe repeated year after year....

Every Democratic President or Presidential Candidate is an Intellectual....
While every Republican President or Candidate is a moron....

not true.
not one ever said Bob Dole was dumb.
not many people said GHWBush was dumb but he did occasionally mangle the language
Dan Quayle was dumb
Reagan was seen as more senile than dumb.
Ford was not dumb but clutzy
Tricky Dick??? No
Goldwater, no
Ike? No
Dewey, no.
etc.

IJ Reilly

Aug 25, 2004, 10:54 PM

Being a good speaker does not in itself denote Intelligence....

It depends on what you mean by being a "good speaker." Some very good actors couldn't think their way out a paper sack (I'll leave that line blank and let you fill in a name). But I have yet to run into an extemporaneous speaker whose intelligence did not closely match their presentation skills.

Also, I don't get your instant defensiveness on this subject. The balance of your reply had nothing whatsoever to do with my point.

Neserk

Aug 25, 2004, 11:18 PM

But I have yet to run into an extemporaneous speaker whose intelligence did not closely match their presentation skills.
.

Do great minds think alike or did you read my post? :p Or both? :D

IJ Reilly

Aug 25, 2004, 11:27 PM

Do great minds think alike or did you read my post? :p Or both? :D

Must be both... :o

Sneeper

Aug 26, 2004, 12:43 AM

Is now a good time to point out that bush probably doesn't know what the word 'sovereign' means? :)

http://www.forsythia.net/~amoran/funny/BushUnityConfSovereignty.wmv

(Sorry about it being WMV.. it's the source it was sent to me in)

This is the leader of the free world we are talking about, not 4th grade Social Studies student. Hehe

MattG

Aug 26, 2004, 07:36 AM

skunk

Aug 26, 2004, 07:39 AM

Thanks for the link. How the **** did he ever get the job????

katchow

Aug 26, 2004, 07:43 AM

all i have to say is cheesy beefsticks for $21.00? What's going on in this country!? :)

Sneeper

Aug 26, 2004, 11:57 AM

Thanks for the link. How the **** did he ever get the job????

Nepotism and preying on people's fears.

jsw

Aug 26, 2004, 12:04 PM

Poor speaking ability does not necessarily indicate low intelligence.

However, a good oral communication, when it is extemporaneous, generally indicates high intelligence.

Idiots can't think on their feet ;)

Is that what you meant?

mischief

Aug 26, 2004, 12:31 PM

It depends on what you mean by being a "good speaker." Some very good actors couldn't think their way out a paper sack (I'll leave that line blank and let you fill in a name). But I have yet to run into an extemporaneous speaker whose intelligence did not closely match their presentation skills.

Then again there are several actors continually cast well below their intellect. Vin Diesel being one excellent example. I think Keannu Reeves is an excellent example of the opposite extreme.

" There is no spoon. (dumbass)" ;)

IJ Reilly

Aug 26, 2004, 01:02 PM

Having known a few actors in my day, I'd have a hard time claiming that their abilities to learn lines and capture characters is a form of articulation. In my experience, many fine actors are poor conversationalists. What they do comes from another form of intelligence, which is deep and mysterious to me.

zimv20

Aug 26, 2004, 01:17 PM

What they do comes from another form of intelligence, which is deep and mysterious to me.
observing and emoting, for starters. being somewhat nuts helps, too.

more seriously, it does help A LOT to be smart. at least to be a _good_ actor, which is different from being a _popular_ actor.

IJ Reilly

Aug 26, 2004, 02:40 PM

observing and emoting, for starters. being somewhat nuts helps, too.

more seriously, it does help A LOT to be smart. at least to be a _good_ actor, which is different from being a _popular_ actor.

Quality and popularity never have been correlative.

The actors I've known are not on a whole great conversationalists. In fact some are downright awkward when they're not on stage. I'm certainly not the first person to notice this. Kurt Vonnegut wrote a short story about it called, "Who Am I This Time?"

MattG

Aug 26, 2004, 03:27 PM

Thanks for the link. How the **** did he ever get the job????
A lot of help from daddy.

vwcruisn

Aug 27, 2004, 01:40 AM

A lot of help from daddy.

and the supreme court!

katchow

Aug 27, 2004, 12:41 PM

Kurt Vonnegut wrote a short story about it called, "Who Am I This Time?"

ahh, a vonnegut reader :) I've been dying to use the term granfaloonery around here :)

IJ Reilly

Aug 27, 2004, 12:50 PM

ahh, a vonnegut reader :) I've been dying to use the term granfaloonery around here :)

I think you just succeeded. Myself, I'm a practicing Bokononist. Some day I hope to get it right.

mischief

Aug 27, 2004, 01:06 PM

I think you just succeeded. Myself, I'm a practicing Bokononist. Some day I hope to get it right.

Erm.... NOT being a reader of Vonnegut... could you please add these to the Definitions thread? :confused:

IJ Reilly

Aug 27, 2004, 01:13 PM

Erm.... NOT being a reader of Vonnegut... could you please add these to the Definitions thread? :confused:

Done. But you really should pick up a copy of Cat's Cradle. I think you'd enjoy it.

Thomas Veil

Aug 27, 2004, 01:54 PM

The man is not dumb
True; I think he's evil and duplicitous. He just pretends he's dumb.

http://homepage.mac.com/mattgudites/spymac/sovereignty.mov
On the other hand.... :p

mischief

Aug 27, 2004, 01:56 PM

Done. But you really should pick up a copy of Cat's Cradle. I think you'd enjoy it.

Likely... I have a list of roughly 300 books I "need" to add to my library.... Perhaps I can find them in PDF.... ;)

blackfox

Aug 27, 2004, 02:00 PM

Likely... I have a list of roughly 300 books I "need" to add to my library.... Perhaps I can find them in PDF.... ;)
You should be able to go to most used bookstores and pick up a copy (paperback) for around 99 cents...

Is that in your price range?

mischief

Aug 27, 2004, 02:05 PM

You should be able to go to most used bookstores and pick up a copy (paperback) for around 99 cents...

Is that in your price range?

If only the used book stores around here actually sold that low. The two we have in town base their prices on the e-bay averages for a certain title based on condition and rarity/edition. Kinda lame.

blackfox

Aug 27, 2004, 02:13 PM

Mischief...FYI...a copy (new) can be found for between $4 and $12 @ Bookshop Santa Cruz

Logos probably has a cheaper used copy...sadly the UCSC bookstore didn't seem to carry any Vonnegut...what the hell are children taught these days?

anyhow, FWIW...

mischief

Aug 27, 2004, 02:30 PM

jelloshotsrule

Aug 27, 2004, 02:41 PM

Just a damn minute here.... Where are you??

he's in the "northwest". duh! hah

blackfox

Aug 27, 2004, 02:44 PM

Just a damn minute here.... Where are you??
<allaying confusion>Jello has it right...but a good friend of mine lives in SCruz...so I am familiar w/ your 'hood...<allaying confusion>

macsrus

Aug 27, 2004, 03:18 PM

True; I think he's evil and duplicitous. He just pretends he's dumb
On the other hand.... :p

Well we all have seen that clip at least a 100 times....
And even though it does make him look foolish..... I seriously doubt that any other candidate could have answered that question either....

Sure someone here can easily look it up on the internet read a few pages about it and then understand what was being asked(and also act like they knew all about it), but I seriously doubt if 1 in a million non Indian's would have even had a clue. The problem is so complex that even Lawyers who specialize in Tribal Sovereignty cant keep up with it. Too many Tribes too many deals with Uncle Sam over the years...

I just kind of feel sorry for Bush for getting that obviously loaded question...

IJ Reilly

Aug 27, 2004, 05:11 PM

I just kind of feel sorry for Bush for getting that obviously loaded question...

"What do you think tribal sovereignty means in the 21st century?"

Wow, what a stumper. Do you honestly believe that Bill Clinton wouldn't have been able to respond to this question with something that at least sounded intelligent? Hell, anyone who's even lived near an Indian casino would have something to say about the new tribal sovereignty.

mactastic

Aug 27, 2004, 06:23 PM

Ahh good old Bookshop SC. Where Rush Limbaugh's book was sold by the pound at the going rate for baloney. Wonderful place. I've spent many an afternoon there. They have books you won't find in many other places. Decent architecture section for a non-architectural bookstore too.

skunk

Aug 27, 2004, 06:25 PM

Decent architecture section for a non-architectural bookstore too.
Now, that's what I like to hear! What's your interest in architecture, Mac?

mactastic

Aug 27, 2004, 06:31 PM

Now, that's what I like to hear! What's your interest in architecture, Mac?

Well it's what I do for a living. I just recently graduated from Cal Poly's school of architecture, after a long and torturous educational process. Now I spend my days as what we in the business refer to as being an AutoCad monkey. Actually it's better than that, I am given the freedom to design as I see fit within the style and cost parameters my boss sets out for me. It's a great gig, I love nothing more than designing and building things.

blackfox

Aug 27, 2004, 06:34 PM

Now, that's what I like to hear! What's your interest in architecture, Mac?
Although not directed at me...I would like to chime in with my interest appreciation of architecture also...just traveled to Vancouver to mainly appreciate the architectural sophistication and attention to detail...also enjoy interior-design in my own life expressions...after all, I don't have to sign-off on a plan to redo my living room...

I'm an asthete...and a liberal...and I drive a Volvo...oh no!...

good to see an appreciation of the finer things...

Thought about entering an architectural program...but I have already changed career-courses so many times...maybe if AC was properly ported to Mac...

skunk

Aug 27, 2004, 06:34 PM

Well it's what I do for a living. I just recently graduated from Cal Poly's school of architecture, after a long and torturous educational process. Now I spend my days as what we in the business refer to as being an AutoCad monkey. Actually it's better than that, I am given the freedom to design as I see fit within the style and cost parameters my boss sets out for me. It's a great gig, I love nothing more than designing and building things.
Great stuff! I've been doing that for years. Not only designing, but actually building as well. Nothing so satisfying. Well, almost nothing. ;)

mactastic

Aug 27, 2004, 06:39 PM

Great stuff! I've been doing that for years. Not only designing, but actually building as well. Nothing so satisfying. Well, almost nothing. ;)

Yeah I'm in the design phase more right now, but the construction management phase will start in earnest soon. That's actually why I took this job, so I could design and build at the same time. I get frustrated only dealing with the theoretical in designing and I also get frustrated only dealing with the lack of creativity inherent in building someone elses design. So I do both and it works out great.

I've got 19 units in a 38 unit subdivision going right now. All but 5 are designed, 3 have broken ground. I also have a 20 unit apartment 'plex I'm working on as well. Kinda cuts into my MR posting time though... :D

IJ Reilly

Aug 27, 2004, 10:13 PM

I believe he's either an architect or a student of same. I'm an architectural historian, btw. And yes, we do have those in America, and yes, I do make a living at it.

zimv20

Aug 27, 2004, 10:58 PM

too bad there's no good architecture in chicago to look at.

</kidding, two in a row! (boom boom)>

p.s. though it appears to be the case, i have not, in fact, been drinking

skunk

Aug 28, 2004, 04:17 AM

p.s. though it appears to be the case, i have not, in fact, been drinking
It's probably a reaction to the antibiotics: it'll wear off soon. :D

mactastic

Aug 28, 2004, 10:26 AM

Holy Corianthian columns Batman, I had no idea there were this many of you involved in this field!

BF, try VectorWorks if you want CAD on a mac.

IJ Reilly

Aug 28, 2004, 11:14 AM

too bad there's no good architecture in chicago to look at.

Just not recent architecture. You've got your Sullivan, Burnham, Wright, and Richardson. Too bad all of them either died or stopped designing buildings in Chicago 100 years ago!

Sayhey

Aug 29, 2004, 01:25 PM

For those interested in the original topic, here is a link to the Daily Show's (http://www.comedycentral.com/tv_shows/thedailyshowwithjonstewart/) web page. It has the Kerry appearance in two parts.

mactastic

Aug 30, 2004, 09:15 AM

Just not recent architecture. You've got your Sullivan, Burnham, Wright, and Richardson. Too bad all of them either died or stopped designing buildings in Chicago 100 years ago!

Not that it's anywhere near my favorite piece of his work, but isn't there an I.M. Pei building in Chicago that would have been done within the last 100 years? And didn't it have some problems with it's windows?

skunk

Aug 30, 2004, 12:25 PM

Not that it's anywhere near my favorite piece of his work, but isn't there an I.M. Pei building in Chicago that would have been done within the last 100 years? And didn't it have some problems with it's windows?
If you're thinking of the notorious Hancock Tower, it's the one in Boston which I M Pei designed: the Chicago one is by Skidmore, Owings and Merrill.

IJ Reilly

Aug 30, 2004, 12:36 PM

If you're thinking of the notorious Hancock Tower, it's the one in Boston which I M Pei designed: the Chicago one is by Skidmore, Owings and Merrill.

Good call. The Hancock is one of the better modern building in Chicago. The Sears Tower also had problems with windows popping out before it was entirely completed, IIRC. Horrible building.