Sen. Shelby (R) Blocks All Obama Nominations In The Senate Over AL Earmarks

[Sky Blue]

Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL) has put an extraordinary "blanket hold" on at least 70 nominations President Obama has sent to the Senate, according to multiple reports this evening. The hold means no nominations can move forward unless Senate Democrats can secure a 60-member cloture vote to break it, or until Shelby lifts the hold.

"While holds are frequent," CongressDaily's Dan Friedman and Megan Scully report (sub. req.), "Senate aides said a blanket hold represents a far more aggressive use of the power than is normal."

The Mobile Press-Register picked up the story early this afternoon. The paper confirmed Reid's account of the hold, and reported that a Shelby spokesperson "did not immediately respond to phone and e-mail messages seeking confirmation of the senator's action or his reason for doing so."
Shelby has been tight-lipped about the holds, offering only an unnamed spokesperson to reporters today to explain them. Aides to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid broke the news of the blanket hold this afternoon. Reid aides told CongressDaily the hold extends to "all executive nominations on the Senate calendar."

According to the report, Shelby is holding Obama's nominees hostage until a pair of lucrative programs that would send billions in taxpayer dollars to his home state get back on track. The two programs Shelby wants to move forward or else:

- A $40 billion contract to build air-to-air refueling tankers. From CongressDaily: "Northrop/EADS team would build the planes in Mobile, Ala., but has threatened to pull out of the competition unless the Air Force makes changes to a draft request for proposals." Federal Times offers more details on the tanker deal, and also confirms its connection to the hold.

- An improvised explosive device testing lab for the FBI. From CongressDaily: "[Shelby] is frustrated that the Obama administration won't build" the center, which Shelby earmarked $45 million for in 2008. The center is due to be based "at the Army's Redstone Arsenal."

Though a Shelby spokesperson would not confirm that these programs were behind the blanket hold, the Senator expressed his frustration about the progress on both through a spokesperson to both CongressDaily and the Federal Times.

A San Diego State University professor and Congressional expert told the Mobile paper "he knew of no previous use of a blanket hold" in recent history.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/report-shelby-blocks-all-obama-nominations-in-the-senate-over-al-earmarks.php?ref=fpa

[Eraserhead]

When you think the US senate can't get any more corrupt it surprises you with another example of appalling corruption.

[rdowns]

This is exactly where Obama needs to use his bully pulpit. This is deplorable behavior and I'd say the same thing were the political parties reversed.

[Ugg]

I know Alabama is an extremely poor and in many ways, backward place, but holding the government hostage is no way to get ahead.

[Queso]

Good. The US public need reminding of just how idiotic Republicans in government can be.

[nbs2]

I was torn. On one hand, this kind of pork barrel spending is the reason that we don't have the money to spend anymore. On the other, the primary duty of a Congressional representative is to secure greater prosperity for the folks at home.

Then I reread the information about the programs. Tweaking a government contract to secure a specific party's bid because they offer to build the product in your backyard is just a step away from succumbing to outright bribery. As for the IED testing lab, it wasn't just the Obama administration that didn't build it. I believe someone else was president at the time.

Screw this guy and the horse he came in on.

[niuniu]

You guys can do that over there? That's a pretty absurd [mis]use of power..

[pooky]

It is astounding how broken the Senate has become. They've lost the ability to effectively govern. The Republicans hold the country hostage, despite having just a hair over the 1/3 of the votes. The Democrats, just as complicit in this ********, just shrug their shoulders and say, "what can we do? Republicans won the majority!"

I think I'm ready. It's time to take the senate apart and rebuild something modern, a piece at a time. I'm an independent (note that means I find myself too liberal for the Democratic party), but I was happy that the Dems had secured two branches of government and we might get some decent policy enacted. Now, **** both parties.

This is depressing. I may not bother voting this year.

[kavika411]

Who is Senator Shelby, and where is his home state?

[niuniu]

Isn't this undemocratic? Oh sorry, no, he's elected, so he can do what he likes :rolleyes: I wonder how many citizens voted for the passing of that power directly.. :cool:

[leekohler]

This is depressing. I may not bother voting this year.

That's what they want, for you not to vote.

And the Republicans are just acting like spoiled babies now, exactly like they did with Clinton. Actually, now it's worse. Every time Obama bows, it's news to these people. They have absolutely nothing, so that's what they go after. Pathetic.

[killerrobot]

Well he is up for reelection this fall. So I'm not too surprised about a publicity stunt like this - I'm assuming he's doing this as a power play to show how much he cares about AL its people.

However, he's screwing over the nation by doing it.

There either needs to be a massive overhaul in congress or a major ass-whooping. It's embarrassing the amount of stuff they can't get done.

[Zombie Acorn]

Regardless if it was done in the past, this is the same ridiculous ******** thats been going on way too much these days, people are tired of this ****. Obama needs to set up a press conference to shine some light on this issue or something, the only thing these politicians seem to respond to is being put in a negative light so go ahead and give it to them, I want to see people's careers destroyed.

[Sdashiki]

Quote:
And, according to news reports, Mr. Obama in late 2005 also put a hold on all Environmental Protection Agency nominees. Mr. Obama said he was trying to force the EPA to move more quickly to issue rules on lead-paint exposure.

So its cool to block something because it will help your home state and basically usher you back in during election season.

But its not cool to do something similar in regards to public health and safety?

How far will the right go to say "LOOK LOOK he did it too...albeit differently, but its still the same! LOOK LOOK!"

[CorvusCamenarum]

Speaking as a lifelong resident of Alabama, which I might add is not nearly as backward as some people here who have never been here would like to stereotype, yes, Sen. Shelby is being a douche. Then again, I expect nothing less from someone so pompous that he got a building on the UA campus named for him.

[iPhil]

Who is Senator Shelby, and where is his home state?




Links: Sen. Shelby link #1 (http://shelby.senate.gov/public/)

Sen. Shelby link #2 (http://shelby.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContactSenatorShelby.EmailSenatorShelby)


Sen . Shelby (R) from Alabama

[mcrain]

yes, Sen. Shelby is being a douche.

He's a birther too...

Another local resident asked Shelby if there was any truth to a rumor that appeared during the presidential campaign concerning Obama's U.S. citizenship, or lack thereof.

"Well his father was Kenyan and they said he was born in Hawaii, but I haven't seen any birth certificate," Shelby said. "You have to be born in America to be president."

[leekohler]

He's a birther too...

Oh Christ. How do we get so many stupid people in government?

[Gelfin]

Speaking as a lifelong resident of Alabama, which I might add is not nearly as backward as some people here who have never been here would like to stereotype, yes, Sen. Shelby is being a douche. Then again, I expect nothing less from someone so pompous that he got a building on the UA campus named for him.

But the politics is exactly as corrupt and embarrassing as it seems. This move is so unsurprising it hurts.

[Queso]

Oh Christ. How do we get so many stupid people in government?
Because the majority of Americans would vote for an amoeba if it wore the appropriate party colours. There's no incentive on the part of the party mandarins for finding thoughtful candidates, just telegenic soundbiters who can rouse the rabble.

[beatzfreak]

So its cool to block something because it will help your home state and basically usher you back in during election season.

But its not cool to do something similar in regards to public health and safety?

How far will the right go to say "LOOK LOOK he did it too...albeit differently, but its still the same! LOOK LOOK!"

The details seem the get lost on them, much their proposals.

[rdowns]

How is he not listed at Dickipedia?

http://www.dickipedia.org/dick.php?title=Main_Page

[mcrain]

Because the majority of Americans would vote for an amoeba if it wore the appropriate party colours. There's no incentive on the part of the party mandarins for finding thoughtful candidates, just telegenic soundbiters who can rouse the rabble.


I don't know that I agree with that. Gore is not Mr. Soundbite. Lieberman is not very telegenic. Kerry was too intellectual for his own good. Palin was only good for soundbite jokes. McCain - telegenic? Maybe at a retirement community.

[MyDesktopBroke]

And the company isn't even American. Airbus is a European company that does some manufacturing in Alabama. Shelby would rather have a small cut go to Americans as long as their in his state (making a great soundbite for a campaign ad), than all of it go to American contractor that would create jobs across the country.

[pooky]

That's what they want, for you not to vote.

And the Republicans are just acting like spoiled babies now, exactly like they did with Clinton. Actually, now it's worse. Every time Obama bows, it's news to these people. They have absolutely nothing, so that's what they go after. Pathetic.

Of course that's what they want, but who am I supposed to vote FOR? The Dems have shown they have no ability to get things done. The minority party is obstructionist? So ****ing what? Man up and get your ****ing job done.

As for the other side... They are a bunch of spoiled babies. Although I think at some level, they're acting this way because they know it'll work, because the Dems let them control the dialogue. The Dems let them say whatever they want to the media. The Dems let them set the agenda. The Republicans are pathetic, yes, but so are the Democrats.

Of course, in my case, it's a moot point. The entire state has one representative. The state is nearly as republican it can get. No vote for or against any of these guys will change the way this state votes. So I can happily pout, bitch about one party being evil and the other being a bunch of wimps, and hope the rest of the country wakes up and does something, hopefully dragging my backwards state along for the ride.

[leekohler]

Of course that's what they want, but who am I supposed to vote FOR? The Dems have shown they have no ability to get things done. The minority party is obstructionist? So ****ing what? Man up and get your ****ing job done.

As for the other side... They are a bunch of spoiled babies. Although I think at some level, they're acting this way because they know it'll work, because the Dems let them control the dialogue. The Dems let them say whatever they want to the media. The Dems let them set the agenda. The Republicans are pathetic, yes, but so are the Democrats.

Of course, in my case, it's a moot point. The entire state has one representative. The state is nearly as republican it can get. No vote for or against any of these guys will change the way this state votes. So I can happily pout, bitch about one party being evil and the other being a bunch of wimps, and hope the rest of the country wakes up and does something, hopefully dragging my backwards state along for the ride.

Your could always move somewhere else. ;)

[NT1440]

How exactly do we have a system where one person can block all of this?:confused:

[leekohler]

How exactly do we have a system where one person can block all of this?:confused:

The US has become a stupid place full of stupid, scared people, that's how.

[NathanMuir]

How is this any different than the Nebraska Compromise in 2009?

Same basic principles, Nelson was acting the same way that Shelby is currently acting. Not that the way that either of them are acting is acceptable or in the manner expected of a US Senator.

I guess it's ok to buy off your own...:rolleyes:

[CorvusCamenarum]

But the politics is exactly as corrupt and embarrassing as it seems. This move is so unsurprising it hurts.

Even more so now that I went back and looked where the two projects were set to be located. Both Mobile and Huntsville (Redstone Arsenal) are R strongholds here.

[Eraserhead]

Of course that's what they want, but who am I supposed to vote FOR?

A third party. Unless 100 million Americans decide you vote for a third party within the next 10-15 years, you guys will become at least "second world".

How is this any different than the Nebraska Compromise in 2009?

Or the Louisiana compromise.

[Zombie Acorn]

A third party. Unless 100 million Americans decide you vote for a third party within the next 10-15 years, you guys will become at least "second world".

Thats hilarious.

[Eraserhead]

Thats hilarious.

In what way? At the rate you're going you guys aren't going to have high-speed rail, UHC, an adult approach to the environment, some attempt to control income inequality or modern urban transport within 10 years. And I'm sure the Republicans/Democrats will manage to screw a few more things up.

Frankly that'll make you second world.

[rdowns]

How is this any different than the Nebraska Compromise in 2009?

Same basic principles, Nelson was acting the same way that Shelby is currently acting. Not that the way that either of them are acting is acceptable or in the manner expected of a US Senator.

I guess it's ok to buy off your own...:rolleyes:

Not different at all. You'll see that was nearly unanimously condemned in the various health care threads.

The idea behind the Senate was to make sure small states weren't overlooked, not so Senators can essentially practice blackmail.

[Zombie Acorn]

In what way? At the rate you're going you guys aren't going to have high-speed rail or UHC or an adult approach to the environment or some attempt to control income inequality or modern urban transport within 10 years. And I'm sure they Republicans/Democrats will manage to screw a few more things up.

Frankly that'll make you second world.

Apparently you aren't aware of where the terms were derived from, Europe is more "second world" than the US will ever be.

[Eraserhead]

Apparently you aren't aware of where the terms were derived from, Europe is more "second world" than the US will ever be.

You're right that the terminology is very outdated :o. Maybe "not a developed country anymore" would be better terminology but its more wordy :p.

[Zombie Acorn]

You're right that the terminology is very outdated :o. Maybe "not a developed country anymore" would be better terminology but its more wordy :p.

I figured thats what you were going for, and I disagree in that instance too, health care will get done, either the hard way or the harder way further down the line. There is too much wealth in the US for it to become an undeveloped or less developed country.

Also a rail system isn't necessary, our airlines are more than adequate. Although I do envy rail systems such as the one Russia has/is fixing up with new network technology. It stretches nearly the whole country.

[Gelfin]

Even more so now that I went back and looked where the two projects were set to be located. Both Mobile and Huntsville (Redstone Arsenal) are R strongholds here.

Indeed. Actually, to me the fact that Alabama isn't quite as backwards as its reputation always made the humiliation of the political clown circus that invariably emerges that much more acute. Alabama could and should do better.

I tend to attribute it to the fact that Alabamians (southerners generally) are just not sufficiently interested or involved in politics at the "issues" level. I can't even identify the criteria by which most politicians get elected there. It seems to be somewhere between "he seems nice" and a weird "that's what everybody else seems to be doing" emergent groupthink decision. Maybe that's changing. When I grew up it was still the case that it was considered impolite to talk about politics or religion in a social setting.

Californians are over-involved, but that's another thread.

[Eraserhead]

health care will get done, either the hard way or the harder way further down the line.

It looks likely only with new politicians.

There is too much wealth in the US for it to become an undeveloped or less developed country.

You could have said the same about Argentina in the 1920's/30's.

Also a rail system isn't necessary, our airlines are more than adequate.

Flying is inefficient in terms of time for medium distance travel and it uses oil which has to be imported from unstable parts of the world. And I believe a lot of the US airports are currently at full capacity, including Chicago and the New York airports which causes problems when there are delays.

A high speed rail line from New York to Washington DC would allow you go from one to the other in 80-90 minutes on a non-stop train. You can barely get to the airport in New York in that time.

[leekohler]

I figured thats what you were going for, and I disagree in that instance too, health care will get done, either the hard way or the harder way further down the line. There is too much wealth in the US for it to become an undeveloped or less developed country.

Never say never. It is entirely possible for this to happen to any country.

Also a rail system isn't necessary, our airlines are more than adequate. Although I do envy rail systems such as the one Russia has/is fixing up with new network technology. It stretches nearly the whole country.

A rail system would be far preferable to our crappy airlines.

[pooky]

Your could always move somewhere else. ;)

Oh I will. But I'm stuck here for at least a few more years.

...A third party...

I like that option. We do have a third party here in Wyoming. They get votes from people who think the Republicans are too liberal. We don't have a green party, or anything like it. The Democrats are as left as you get here, and they're even wimpier than the national party.

[leekohler]

Flying is inefficient in terms of time for medium distance travel and it uses oil which has to be imported from unstable parts of the world. And I believe a lot of the US airports are currently at full capacity, including Chicago and the New York airports which causes problems when there are delays.

A high speed rail line from New York to Washington DC would allow you go from one to the other in 80-90 minutes on a non-stop train. You can barely get to the airport in New York in that time.

Exactly- for me to go to home to Ohio by train is less total travel time than flying. When you factor in travel to the airport, waiting in line at security and then driving from the airport, it turns out to be longer. Why would I put myself through hell at an airport, when I can be drinking in the lounge care of the train?

[mcrain]

And the company isn't even American. Airbus is a European company that does some manufacturing in Alabama. Shelby would rather have a small cut go to Americans as long as their in his state (making a great soundbite for a campaign ad), than all of it go to American contractor that would create jobs across the country.

Boeing has been fighting to get that same contract ever since the Bush administration awarded the contract to Airbus, even thought the Boeing bid was better, and had a better aircraft.

It took a HUGE fight to undo the freebee gift to Airbus, and now this Alabama Senator want to give it back?

This is a US military contract, and should be serviced by a US company. If for no other reason than national security.

Republicans claim to be for national security, and they do THIS? Give me a break.

I guess it's ok to buy off your own...:rolleyes:

Weren't all the Republicans in the echo chamber ranting about backroom deals and buying votes in healthcare reform? So, they rant about negotiating for your state, and doing what's been done forever, but it's ok to put out a blanket hold unless you're bought off? :rolleyes:

There is too much wealth in the US for it to become an undeveloped or less developed country.

Also a rail system isn't necessary, our airlines are more than adequate. Although I do envy rail systems such as the one Russia has/is fixing up with new network technology. It stretches nearly the whole country.

You could have said the same about Argentina in the 1920's/30's.

Flying is inefficient in terms of time for medium distance travel and it uses oil which has to be imported from unstable parts of the world. And I believe a lot of the US airports are currently at full capacity, including Chicago and the New York airports which causes problems when there are delays.

A high speed rail line from New York to Washington DC would allow you go from one to the other in 80-90 minutes on a non-stop train. You can barely get to the airport in New York in that time.

I bet Ceasar said the same thing. Rome is too wealthy and powerful to ever fall!

High speed rail would be fantastic, and would be a wonderful way to travel. We have the distances to make it really useful, and we certainly could stand to use less oil (although electricity production requires a lot of coal and oil too).

[rdowns]

I

A high speed rail line from New York to Washington DC would allow you go from one to the other in 80-90 minutes on a non-stop train. You can barely get to the airport in New York in that time.

A high speed rail in the NE, from Boston to Washington DC would go a long way in reducing the capacity problems at the NE corridor airports.

[Zombie Acorn]

A high speed rail in the NE, from Boston to Washington DC would go a long way in reducing the capacity problems at the NE corridor airports.

If we are doing a rail system it better damn well go across the entire US or I am not paying for it. Your states can get together and build it if thats the way its going to roll.

[Eraserhead]

High speed rail would be fantastic, and would be a wonderful way to travel. We have the distances to make it really useful,

And its proven (by the Chinese) that it can be done for distances up to 900km (550 miles) or so within 3 hours. So New York to Chicago (which is just less than 800 miles) would probably just about be viable if it was non-stop (as that would take 4 hours).

(although electricity production requires a lot of coal and oil too).

Or nuclear or renewables ;).

A high speed rail in the NE, from Boston to Washington DC would go a long way in reducing the capacity problems at the NE corridor airports.

Agreed.

[mcrain]

Or nuclear or renewables ;).

What we need is some offshore drillin' and some drillin' in Anwar, and some drillin' in the National Parks!

That will solve all our problems!

[lord patton]

A San Diego State University professor and Congressional expert told the Mobile paper "he knew of no previous use of a blanket hold" in recent history.

not much of an expert: link (http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/Jun-15-Tue-2004/news/24104716.html)

[leekohler]

If we are doing a rail system it better damn well go across the entire US or I am not paying for it. Your states can get together and build it if thats the way its going to roll.

Of course it would. Do you really think he was saying it would just be in the East?

[Zombie Acorn]

Of course it would. Do you really think he was saying it would just be in the East?

The way the earmarks go its hard to tell, that is a fairly liberal area, if we are going to build a rail system it better be one of the best in the world.

[NT1440]

The way the earmarks go its hard to tell, that is a fairly liberal area, if we are going to build a rail system it better be one of the best in the world.
As long as Amtrak isn't in charge, I'm sure it could have the potential to be a good system.

[leekohler]

As long as Amtrak isn't in charge, I'm sure it could have the potential to be a good system.

Amtrak is great. I use it all the time. Their only disadvantage is not their problem. They have to use the same tracks as freight trains, and freight trains take precedent over passenger trains. That's not Amtrak's fault.

[Eraserhead]

Of course it would. Do you really think he was saying it would just be in the East?

I was assuming it would be done under good government that picked the routes that made the most sense and had cities maybe at most 800 miles or less apart that had lots of people wanting to go from one to the other.

[NT1440]

Amtrak is great. I use it all the time. Their only disadvantage is not their problem. They have to use the same tracks as freight trains, and freight trains take precedent over passenger trains. That's not Amtrak's fault.
The trains I've used around here are downright disgusting. That said, in larger cities like DC they do have some amazing trains, I don't know why they're so ****** here.

[leekohler]

The trains I've used around here are downright disgusting. That said, in larger cities like DC they do have some amazing trains, I don't know why they're so ****** here.

Really? Every one of them I've been on is as clean as could be.

[NT1440]

Really? Every one of them I've been on is as clean as could be.
Seriously, you wouldn't believe it. It may be because you're in chicago lee, bigger cities sometimes have it better.

[leekohler]

Seriously, you wouldn't believe it. It may be because you're in chicago lee, bigger cities sometimes have it better.

Yeah, but those trains out of Chicago travel all across the country. Union Station is a major hub. Are your trains on smaller, more local routes perhaps?

[NT1440]

Yeah, but those trains out of Chicago travel all across the country. Union Station is a major hub. Are your trains on smaller, more local routes perhaps?
The one in question came from somewhere in the midwest if I'm remembering correctly. Maybe it was just coach that was a **** hole?

[killerrobot]

I figured thats what you were going for, and I disagree in that instance too, health care will get done, either the hard way or the harder way further down the line. There is too much wealth in the US for it to become an undeveloped or less developed country.


But how is that wealth distributed?
The wealthiest man in the world is from Mexico? Does that mean Mexico is leading the world?
Lobbyists and interests groups are really putting the hammer on progress.
I'd agree with Eraserhead on this one unless there is some dramatic political changes, US will continue to fall behind other countries.

EDIT: I should also say without major educational changes as well.

As far as trains, I've ridden Amtrak a lot in the US between KC and Chicago. Nothing great there, but they definitely beat local/non-express/non-high velocity trains in Europe. Unfortunately, so does the price.

[quagmire]

Amtrak is great. I use it all the time. Their only disadvantage is not their problem. They have to use the same tracks as freight trains, and freight trains take precedent over passenger trains. That's not Amtrak's fault.

Agreed. Auto Train FTW. :D

CSX's tracks though are not in the best of shape so it is a bit rough......

[Eraserhead]

Lobbyists and interests groups are really putting the hammer on progress.
I'd agree with Eraserhead on this one unless there is some dramatic political changes, US will continue to fall behind other countries.

And its already begun:

... and therein lies the big difference between US healthcare and that found in the civilised world.

[beatzfreak]

HSR may be happening soon here in the US: (http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2010/02/05/us-makes-play-to-catch-up-on-high-speed-rail.html)

But the country took another step closer to its first high-speed-rail project last week, when President Obama announced in a visit to Florida plans to distribute some $8 billion in stimulus funding for rail projects. More than 250 applications were submitted for the money, and 13 corridors in 31 states were selected. Major projects include lines from Tampa to Orlando, St. Louis to Chicago, and San Diego to Sacramento, Calif. The president told a Florida audience that the proposed trains are "fast; they are smooth; you don't have to take off your shoes."

[Eraserhead]

$8 billion is only enough for one line probably. There is no point if its spent on 13 projects - then it'll be wasted.

[Rodimus Prime]

HSR may be happening soon here in the US: (http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2010/02/05/us-makes-play-to-catch-up-on-high-speed-rail.html)

I love how the money for it went to swing states only there. Completely by pass other places that really could use it.

[nbs2]

Amtrak is great. I use it all the time. Their only disadvantage is not their problem. They have to use the same tracks as freight trains, and freight trains take precedent over passenger trains. That's not Amtrak's fault.

No, but their high personnel costs and following of the airlines in a customer service race to the bottom are their fault. In the NE, the cost of a train ticket will rival that of an airplane and travel time is minimally different. Outside of that corridor, costs will exceed and time isn't even fair to compare (and when you factor the use of a sleeper car for your three day trip...).

[leekohler]

No, but their high personnel costs and following of the airlines in a customer service race to the bottom are their fault. In the NE, the cost of a train ticket will rival that of an airplane and travel time is minimally different. Outside of that corridor, costs will exceed and time isn't even fair to compare (and when you factor the use of a sleeper car for your three day trip...).

I don't use it for trips that long though. And for me to take it from Illinois to Ohio is a huge win, cost and time-wise.

[Eraserhead]

I love how the money for it went to swing states only there. Completely by pass other places that really could use it.

+1

And St Louis to Chicago is only 110mph isn't it? That's not exactly high-speed rail.

[rdowns]

If we are doing a rail system it better damn well go across the entire US or I am not paying for it.

There is no need for this to go cross country. We have an excellent airline system for that. This needs to go in major metropolitan areas. Maybe our grand kids will be able to afford to connect the systems later.

Your states can get together and build it if thats the way its going to roll.


Spare me. I always love how the anti tax and redistribute crowd generally live in states that get back a lot more than they pay from the federal government. I'm tired of paying for that.

[Eraserhead]

There is no need for this to go cross country. We have an excellent airline system for that. This needs to go in major metropolitan areas.

Agreed there's not really much point in linking major cities much more than 1000km (600 miles) apart.

And having a less short haul flights will make the long haul ones more reliable.

[MacNut]

A high speed rail in the NE, from Boston to Washington DC would go a long way in reducing the capacity problems at the NE corridor airports.The system is in place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_Acela

[Zombie Acorn]

There is no need for this to go cross country. We have an excellent airline system for that. This needs to go in major metropolitan areas. Maybe our grand kids will be able to afford to connect the systems later.

Spare me. I always love how the anti tax and redistribute crowd generally live in states that get back a lot more than they pay from the federal government. I'm tired of paying for that.

You might also be tired of eating cheaply.

[beatzfreak]

$8 billion is only enough for one line probably. There is no point if its spent on 13 projects - then it'll be wasted.

It's seed money to get these projects started. States are spending as well, but you're right, it probably won't be enough even with the 5 billion per year for the next 5 years Obama has promised. And, I agree with your other post, 80-110mph is hardly high speed. It's a shame really.

I love how the money for it went to swing states only there. Completely by pass other places that really could use it.

California and Florida really do need a rail system. It was part of the stimulus. Why would the DOT award grants to those that voted against it? Some, like Texas, didn't have any route plans or state funding in place.

more info here (http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/28/high-speed-rail-grants-announced-california-florida-and-illinois-are-lucky-recipients/)

Sorry for participating in the derailing this thread.

[Rodimus Prime]

There is no need for this to go cross country. We have an excellent airline system for that. This needs to go in major metropolitan areas. Maybe our grand kids will be able to afford to connect the systems later.




Spare me. I always love how the anti tax and redistribute crowd generally live in states that get back a lot more than they pay from the federal government. I'm tired of paying for that.

Agreed there's not really much point in linking major cities much more than 1000km (600 miles) apart.

And having a less short haul flights will make the long haul ones more reliable.

I think in some ways it should connect coast to coast. Not for travel from Coast to Coast but because if you look at the lay out of major cities you can connect them pretty easily coast to coast. It just needs to branch out in all direction. States getting funding based on a mixture of population and land area. So states like Nevada will get more funding per person to off set the fact that it population is very centered in a few areas and needs to be connected. Texas would get a pretty penny due to is Raw size and having major centers scattered threw out the state. DFW, Houston, Austin/SA, El Plaso


California and Florida really do need a rail system. It was part of the stimulus. Why would the DOT award grants to those that voted against it? Some, like Texas, didn't have any route plans or state funding in place.

more info here (http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/01/28/high-speed-rail-grants-announced-california-florida-and-illinois-are-lucky-recipients/)

Sorry for participating in the derailing this thread.

Texas’ huge T-Bone project has not received any funds, for two clear reasons: there is no political advantage in funding a project in a state unlikely to vote Democratic at the national level for the next decade at the least,

Pull from it. Texas got completely passed over mainly for that reason. As for routes the big ones they wanted to is kind of a super highway in the state. That is it has rail system sided by a major high way connecting the DFW, Austin/San Antonio and Houston.

Argument still stands it went to swing states and Heavy democrat states. Very sad.

[Eraserhead]

Texas’ huge T-Bone project has not received any funds, for two clear reasons: there is no political advantage in funding a project in a state unlikely to vote Democratic at the national level for the next decade at the least,

Pull from it. Texas got completely passed over mainly for that reason. As for routes the big ones they wanted to is kind of a super highway in the state. That is it has rail system sided by a major high way connecting the DFW, Austin/San Antonio and Houston.

Argument still stands it went to swing states and Heavy democrat states. Very sad.

Texas looks to me like one of the obvious choices so its sad to see it passed over.

California and Florida really do need a rail system. It was part of the stimulus. Why would the DOT award grants to those that voted against it?

Because you should pick the routes that make the most sense, not the people who voted for the money. If they built one line that went at 180 mph or higher in a sensible place it would be popular and taxpayers would be happy to fund further routes.

Some, like Texas, didn't have any route plans or state funding in place.

Then they could have spent some money creating a plan - which would probably cost $10 million or so, which is still a small amount compared to the overall budget.

The system is in place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_Acela

Sadly it's nowhere near quick enough - it takes 2 hours 45 minutes from Washington DC to New York, true high speed rail would do that in half the time.

[yg17]

I love how the money for it went to swing states only there. Completely by pass other places that really could use it.

The STL-CHI line HSR line is actually entirely within Illinois, which is not a swing state. The high speed part of it starts in Alton (which is a suburb of STL in IL) and goes to somewhere outside of Chicago. There will probably be very little work done in Missouri for it since the trains will run at normal speed from Alton into St. Louis (which is only around 20 minutes from Alton to downtown by train)

+1

And St Louis to Chicago is only 110mph isn't it? That's not exactly high-speed rail.

It's better than what's there now, believe me. Right now, Amtrak is slower than driving. I think the idea of HSR is to be between flying and driving in terms of speed. It's about a 45 minute flight between STL and Chicago, but then you have to add in time to check in, security, wait for your baggage if you check, etc, not to mention that if you're flying in to or out of O'Hare, you can count on your flight being delayed. And neither the St. Louis airport or both Chicago airports are near the city center, you'd have to rent a car, take a taxi or public transportation to get downtown, whereas rail will end up in both city's downtown areas. If high speed rail can get from downtown STL to downtown Chicago an hour or two quicker than the time it takes to drive (around 5 hours) I think it will be very popular. The people who have to catch a connecting flight or need to be there ASAP will fly, the people who have nothing better to do with their time than sit in the infamous Chicago traffic will drive, everyone else will take the train, even if it's not high speed by European standards.

[beatzfreak]

Texas’ huge T-Bone project has not received any funds, for two clear reasons: there is no political advantage in funding a project in a state unlikely to vote Democratic at the national level for the next decade at the least,

Pull from it. Texas got completely passed over mainly for that reason. As for routes the big ones they wanted to is kind of a super highway in the state. That is it has rail system sided by a major high way connecting the DFW, Austin/San Antonio and Houston.

Argument still stands it went to swing states and Heavy democrat states. Very sad.

That's the opinion of the author, though. You only mentioned one of two reasons.


By their own admission, it sounds like Texas didn't have their act together. (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6849883.html)

“We based our decision on where the money could be well-spent and jump-start opportunities around the country,” LaHood said.

“Unless a state or region has its act together, with (local) money, with a good plan that connects things, they're not going to be in the high-speed rail business,” he said.

Citing Florida as an example, LaHood said the Sunshine State presented a detailed plan for construction, a long-term business plan, a united front of Democratic and Republican lawmakers and a legislature and governor that authorized an expenditure of state tax money to ensure that the project was completed.

He also praised Midwestern states, where Democratic and Republican governors worked across party lines to develop a sound regional proposal.

Texas Transportation Department spokesman Chris Lippincott said the amount of money Texas received was “not a surprise.”

He noted that dollars given out from the economic stimulus pot went to “shovel-ready” projects such as the Tampa-Orlando line in Florida.

Texas needs “more funds and more time to be shovel-ready,” he said.

Texas transportation officials, elected leaders and private-sector figures have been talking for years about several potential high-speed rail corridors linking the population centers of Houston, San Antonio, Austin, Waco and Dallas.

Texas will continue with “planning and environmental work which the US DOT has encouraged us to do,” Lippincott said.

Gov. Rick Perry's office declined to comment.

LaHood, a former Republican congressman , denied that partisan politics played any role in the selection process.
“We don't make decisions based on how somebody votes,” he said.
LaHood compared the current status of American high-speed rail to the highway system at the beginning of the interstate construction boom of the 1950s.

“We're at the starting point for high-speed rail,” he said. “The people want this.”

His advice to states like Texas, New York and Georgia: “Get your act together.”

Emphasis mine.

New York didn't get any funding for HSR, either. It's our own fault for having a crappy plan.

As a whole, the HSR plan is pretty disappointing. It needs a lot more funding, needs to be faster and more widespread. i guess we'll see what happens in the future.

[Eraserhead]

It's better than what's there now, believe me. Right now, Amtrak is slower than driving. I think the idea of HSR is to be between flying and driving in terms of speed. It's about a 45 minute flight between STL and Chicago, but then you have to add in time to check in, security, wait for your baggage if you check, etc, not to mention that if you're flying in to or out of O'Hare, you can count on your flight being delayed. And neither the St. Louis airport or both Chicago airports are near the city center, you'd have to rent a car, take a taxi or public transportation to get downtown, whereas rail will end up in both city's downtown areas. If high speed rail can get from downtown STL to downtown Chicago an hour or two quicker than the time it takes to drive (around 5 hours) I think it will be very popular. The people who have to catch a connecting flight or need to be there ASAP will fly, the people who have nothing better to do with their time than sit in the infamous Chicago traffic will drive, everyone else will take the train, even if it's not high speed by European standards.

I suppose 110mph isn't actually slow rail and it does just about meet the US's "HSR Regional" standard (source (http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/rrdev/hsrstrategicplan.pdf) - on "page 2" - which is the 10th page of the PDF). And I don't doubt that it is an improvement and that is good.

The new "80mph = High speed" definition they seem to have used on the map (http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/HSR-ARRA-Grants1.jpg) doesn't even meet that.

213870

The thing is that I don't like people changing the definition of a word to fit what they are doing. High speed rail gives the implication that a train line will go at speeds of around 200mph, whereas this line is significantly slower than that. Calling the Chicago-St Louis line a new express train would be much more honest terminology.

And from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_state it looks like Illinois is fairly swinging.

[Eraserhead]

One of the other reasons for saying that these lines are HSR is so the US citizens - the vast majority of whom never leave the country, can pretend they have high speed rail like the Europeans and East Asians do.

[yg17]

I suppose 110mph isn't actually slow rail and it does just about meet the US's "HSR Regional" standard (source (http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/rrdev/hsrstrategicplan.pdf) - on "page 2" - which is the 10th page of the PDF). And I don't doubt that it is an improvement and that is good.

The new "80mph = High speed" definition they seem to have used on the map (http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/HSR-ARRA-Grants1.jpg) doesn't even meet that.

213870

The thing is that I don't like people changing the definition of a word to fit what they are doing. High speed rail gives the implication that a train line will go at speeds of around 200mph, whereas this line is significantly slower than that. Calling the Chicago-St Louis line a new express train would be much more honest terminology.

And from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_state it looks like Illinois is fairly swinging.

True, maybe HSR isn't the right terminology. And Illinois is a solid blue state. Especially with Obama running, since it's his home state.

[StruckANerve]

So on one side we have Ben Nelson being openly bribed by Obama to vote yes on healthcare and on the other side we have this douche holding everything up in hopes of a bribe? What a great system we have.

[Sky Blue]

Shelby statement:

"The purpose of placing numerous holds was to get the White House's attention on two issues that are critical to our national security - the Air Force's aerial refueling tanker acquisition and the FBI's Terrorist Device Analytical Center (TEDAC). With that accomplished, Sen. Shelby has decided to release his holds on all but a few nominees directly related to the Air Force tanker acquisition until the new Request for Proposal is issued. The Air Force tanker acquisition is not an 'earmark' as has been reported; it is a competition to replace the Air Force's aging aerial refueling tanker fleet. Sen. Shelby is not seeking to determine the outcome of the competition; he is seeking to ensure an open, fair and transparent competition that delivers the best equipment to our men and women in uniform. Sen. Shelby is fully justified in his concern given the history and current status of this acquisition."

[leekohler]

Shelby statement:

Ummm...WTF? Hey- somebody get me a work visa in Canada or Europe, quick. I really do think this country is toast.

The United States really should no longer be considered an intellectual place.

[iPhil]

Update on Shelby's blanket hold:

Uncle Sorta ? (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/02/uncle_sorta.php#more?ref=fpblg)

2/8/10
Sen. Shelby (R-AL) released his blanket holds on Obama nominees this morning -- but he's maintaining his holds on a few unnamed nominees he says are directly related to "the Air Force tanker acquisition until the new Request for Proposal is issued."

Shelby statement after the jump ...

"The purpose of placing numerous holds was to get the White House's attention on two issues that are critical to our national security - the Air Force's aerial refueling tanker acquisition and the FBI's Terrorist Device Analytical Center (TEDAC). With that accomplished, Sen. Shelby has decided to release his holds on all but a few nominees directly related to the Air Force tanker acquisition until the new Request for Proposal is issued. The Air Force tanker acquisition is not an 'earmark' as has been reported; it is a competition to replace the Air Force's aging aerial refueling tanker fleet. Sen. Shelby is not seeking to determine the outcome of the competition; he is seeking to ensure an open, fair and transparent competition that delivers the best equipment to our men and women in uniform. Sen. Shelby is fully justified in his concern given the history and current status of this acquisition."