HP iPod To Appear September 5?

[Fuchal]

PRAISE STEVE JOBS AND HIS UNCANNY SUPERORITY AT GIVING KEYNOTES

[bumfilter]

I'd like to know how the little HP printer can print photos straight from the iPod, how are we supposed to select the photos? By name?

Jammer thing looks cool. The buzz word wireless was also mentioned.

[Porsche]

Does anyone other than me reckon that Carly is high?

I think they all are... :rolleyes:

[Agathon]

Someone send this woman a copy of Keynote and a mock turtleneck.

[cazlar]

My god, this is the most boring keynote ever! I've only ever seen SteveNotes so maybe I've been spoiled by his RDF, but I don't think I can stand much more...

[G4-power]

So what's your ipod tattoo going to be?

Great, Apple makes a beautiful product and Windows users must immediately vandalize it.


Aargh, this makes the iPod look cheap. I certainly won't put any HP tattoos on my soon-to-be-shipped 4G iPod.

Damn that woman, she is awful. She's forgetting what she's supposed to talk about (umm, err). And she's supposed to talk about the iPod.

[appleface]

the world is on a painful digital mobile virtual personal journey this morning :)

[aswitcher]

TV spot...hype...clever graphics...nothing practical...

[Agathon]

It's not just her. Wintel machines must emit some energy-sapping rays that renders anyone in the vicinity into a zombified moron.

I'll bet anything you like that Phil Schiller comes out next week and puts this woman to shame in his goofy, gee-whiz way.

What's with these no talents? Jobs has had Bono, Mick Jagger, Dr Dre, and various others. I've never heard of these losers.

[cazlar]

well, I think the ad is the highlight so far!

[sirjimithy]

Keep your grubby Winblows hands off of decent products.

[mabino]

Aargh, this makes the iPod look cheap. I certainly won't put any HP tattoos on my soon-to-be-shipped 4G iPod.

The tattoo idea smells of Apple though. The bluePod was ugly and would have diluted the iPod image. HP wants to rebrand the iPod as their own. Steve has to remind Carly that HP's core business is printing and they could sell customizing kits while Apple gets to keep the iPod unchanged.

Sure it makes it look cheap to certain age groups, but I think there is a market in the younger crowd for something like this. If so this makes the choice between mini or regular much more difficult for kids. Plus, depending on how much the adhesive covers the body and how removable the tattoos are, this could also provide some minor scratch protection for age groups that might be a little more rough with the device.

[webmatthijs]

is there an ordience there or are they just messing around, lol

that device looks awful though...

i like the ipod tatoos though.

[houttbe]

From the press release: "HP also announced the availability of the Apple iPod from HP. Through a strategic partnership with Apple, HP will help bring the world's most popular digital music player to an even broader base of PC users. The Apple iPod from HP will be offered in two variations - 20 gigabytes (GB) and 40 GB - and will be available online at hpshopping.com and at most major retailers, including Circuit City, CompUSA, Best Buy, Office Depot, Staples, Radio Shack, Fry's, Amazon.com and Costco."

The deal with HP basically means that Apple is giving up distribution of iPods in brick and mortar stores to HP ...

I suppose that is good news for iPod penetration in the retail segment - but the question is whether Apple will maintain separate distribution arrangements for its computers. More likely to concentrate on Apple stores and give up on other retail presence?

[SilentPanda]

I've only watched a little bit of this presentation and it looks like a presentation from the Home Shopping Network or something. It's horrid. Maybe I just caught a bad part.

[aswitcher]

I've only watched a little bit of this presentation and it looks like a presentation from the Home Shopping Network or something. It's horrid. Maybe I just caught a bad part.

SilentPanda has it sorted...it is a home shopping ad...not a leading high tech company using slick well rehersed presentations to really show and explain in an efficient way what they have and what it does, and why its actuially cool

[iMeowbot]

Aargh, this makes the iPod look cheap. I certainly won't put any HP tattoos on my soon-to-be-shipped 4G iPod.

The demo pattern was ugly as sin, but I'm sure that people will come up with more tasteful patterns. It's a nice idea for avoiding scratches without adding a bulky case.

[Nextstep OS X]

The HP iPod supports unprotected WMA unlike the standart ipod

Check it out

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?product=433661&cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en&tool=softwareCategory&docname=c00216824

Hmm i think i will tell my cousin you get the HP iPod version(since he's a windows ...)

[Agathon]

The camera work is terrible too.

[iMeowbot]

I'd like to know how the little HP printer can print photos straight from the iPod, how are we supposed to select the photos? By name?
The printer has a color preview display.

[aswitcher]

What are they demonstrating now...a laptop hybrid for video?

[curmi]

"they're boxy, but they're good"

[iMeowbot]

The HP iPod supports unprotected WMA unlike the standart ipod
The Apple one does that too. It's a transcoder in iTunes (but only in the windows version).

[sirjimithy]

The HP iPod supports unprotected WMA unlike the standart ipod

Check it out

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?product=433661&cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en&tool=softwareCategory&docname=c00216824

Hmm i think i will tell my cousin you get the HP iPod version(since he's a windows ...)

Actually the Apple iPod does support unprotected WMA, so long as it was made with WMP 8 or higher. I don't think the software will be any different than Apple's iPod software.

[SilentPanda]

The HP iPod supports unprotected WMA unlike the standart ipod

Check it out

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?product=433661&cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en&tool=softwareCategory&docname=c00216824

Hmm i think i will tell my cousin you get the HP iPod version(since he's a windows ...)

I wonder if that's simply the WMA to AAC conversion that iTunes already does... seems sorta bad advertising if it is... it just seems odd that the HP iPod would have WMA in it.

[Lanbrown]

there is a full year of phone support for HP's iPod, while Apple's only permits for "one incident" in the first 90 days for technical support.

If its anything like the phone support that I got with HP not too long ago, you're not missing anything. You get to talk to someone form India that gives you scripted responses. The printer issue was never resolved.

[sinisterdesign]

"An article write-up in today's Wall Street Journal also claims that HP's iPod will include "different hardware features" to further distinguish it, although no details were provided."

hmmmm

yeah, it only works w/ Windows and Internet Exploder. :eek:


anyone else get the feeling that Ive saw that blue hPod from the announcement earlier this year and said, "i will NOT have my design basterdized in that awful blue color!"

[sirjimithy]

5.1 surround from stereo speakers sounds horrible. There's no way around it.

[sirjimithy]

anyone else get the feeling that Ive saw that blue hPod from the announcement earlier this year and said, "i will NOT have my design basterdized in that awful blue color!"

Yeah, Ive wouldn't have that. I don't blame him.

[Agathon]

I think this is really bad for Apple. The appeal of the ipod is that it is cool.

Now these clowns have got their hands on it, the coolness will evaporate at an ever increasing rate. :(

Did you see that awful ad?

Well, my connection has stopped. Was that it? Thank God.

[oingoboingo]

The strained high-five at the end of the video is worth hanging on for.

That has to be the worst product launch of a major IT company I've ever seen. Ever. I predict this clip will become a cult classic, much like Steve Ballmer's ape-dance.

[G4-power]

The demo pattern was ugly as sin, but I'm sure that people will come up with more tasteful patterns. It's a nice idea for avoiding scratches without adding a bulky case.

Well, yah, didn't think of that. Does this need some kind of super-sticky-photo-paper? An OS X logo wouldn't be bad.

[sinisterdesign]

"HP devices. they're boxy, but they're good"

Apple- sleek and smart. For men who would like " :eek: " from beautiful women they hardly know.

sorry, couldn't resist the "Crazy People" reference...

[webmatthijs]

well, thats that finished and out of the way....

if im honest i think its all a bit dissapointing. i can see what they were thinking though. but werent they gonna make thouse things all i one? then why did they show about 10 different devices. and who wants an ugly black dvd player with a silver keyboard. and what about THE IPOD PRICES. werent they gonna lower them?

awell :confused: :o

[Knox]

Ah, the irony of the "iPod + HP" advert/trailer having "HP : Invent" at the end of it. *chuckles*

[cazlar]

What are they demonstrating now...a laptop hybrid for video?

From memory, I'd say it's "quick play" feature was something I've read about before where it doesn't boot into Windows, but rather only a cut down OS (can't remember if Win or Linux based) that can run DVDs etc.

Of course, I'd rather not reboot at all :)

[iMeowbot]

Well, yah, didn't think of that. Does this need some kind of super-sticky-photo-paper? An OS X logo wouldn't be bad.
I would assume it's just a die cut film or coated paper with an adhesive like you would find on removable Avery labels -- kind of like Post-it goop but it doesn't leave residue.

[Object-X]

I hope that this it the knock dead punch that keeps Microsoft out of the market. The main reason that I worry about MS, is that most companies would be content to be selling a product and making a profit. MS doesn't seem to be content until it has wiped out all competition, and is the lone provider of the good/service so that it can do ****ty work, overprice it, and screw the consumer.

I have seen many posts regarding concern over Microsoft's alleged entrance into the digital music market; I would not worry about this at all. You'll have to forgive me if my thoughts wander off topic a bit. I believe that we are seeing the beginning of the end of Microsoft. Where is their music store? Where is Longhorn for that matter? It is nothing but vapor ware. As other companies are already competing and making money in this area Microsoft is still "talking" about doing it. Technology is an extremely competitive business and MS simply can't compete; if they can't leverage their market share they have nothing to offer.

MS can't even get their OS right. Within four days of XPSP2 release two critical security flaws were found in it. News reports Longhorns delay and the simple finincial reality is that MS can't afford to wait until 2007 - 2008 for a new OS. Apple Xserves are quitely showing up all over the place. Linux is coming on strong and their are many companies pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into it's development further stressing MS. They are weak and vunerable and companies like IBM and Novell know it.

MS has been for years trying to get it's media player in the limelight and to push it's proprietary WMA format. Meanwhile, Apple has been moving forward with it's iTunes inititive and has achieved the ultimate coo by porting iTunes to Windows. If you use Windows then you know what a piece of @$# media player is. Microsoft can not use its market dominance to prevent or limit Apple's iTunes player on the Windows platform. And Windows users are using iTunes in staggering numbers. Notice also how iTunes now plays video content. Apple's quictime product is strong and the new H.264/AVC codec looks very promising. Apple has inked a deal with Motorola to put iTunes on phones and now Sprint has announced it's use of Xserves for streaming video (quicktime) to their phone users. What MS has been trying to do Apple is now doing, and all because of the success of their iTunes and iPod. Job's doesn't talk about this in his keynotes, but I believe he knew all along that the success of iTunes and the iPod would give them the perfect launch pad for entrance into the larger media market. Where is Microsoft's offering? They are still dreaming about it.

There are reports that students, because of their love and use of the iPod, are now buying Apple computers. But Apple has only scratched the surface with potential buyers of the iPod. Digital downloading services are only a small piece of the music industry pie and Apple is sitting on a gold mine. We all know that it's only a matter of time until the majority of music sales are digital downloads; and Apple will be the main player in that market. They are going to make billions off of this. Microsoft on the other hand is still trying to figure out how to get their OS off the ground.

But it isn't just music, they will also get into digital video when the time is right and their new quicktime codec and iTunes player are offering hints as to how strong they will be. I believe the next big thing for Apple will be their dominance in the digital phone market with quicktime video and iTunes music players; and right around the corner digital video downloading. Netflix has already annouced that they will be offering this service sometime next year. Apple's new High Def codec will make them the industry leader in this market too. It all dovetails nicely with the iPod. I was skeptical about the iPod changing Apple, but I now believe that this little device is going to put Apple on the map in a big big way. When history is written the iPod will be one of the most revolutionary devices ever made...right next to the Mac!

Buh by Microsoft, nice knowing you...

[srobert]

The strained high-five at the end of the video is worth hanging on for.

That has to be the worst product launch of a major IT company I've ever seen. Ever. I predict this clip will become a cult classic, much like Steve Ballmer's ape-dance.

Nah! Nothing beats the dancing monkey... developers, developers, developper, developers...

Maybe they could clip the two presentations together and make a real funny music video.

[JediL1]

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story?id=6450450&rnd=1093452167341&has-player=unknown

Microsoft to debut music store on September 2nd. If they do actually score the Beatles in an exclusive contract...could be bad.

[SilentPanda]

Where are the stickers on the website? I can't find 'em. I want something to chuckle at.

[ariza910]

They showed an iPod connected straight to a HP printer and said you can print from the iPod.

they failed to say how you would get the pics onto the ipod in the first place

[Jalexster]

Interesting Fact: The Dell DJ is made by Creative (I think). I definetly know it's firmware was made by Creative. The whole thing is probabaly made by Creative.

And by the way, Creative's players sound the best. The iPods sound very very good, but the Creatives just sound better. And the Rio players sound better than the iPod. But not as good as Creative. iRiver is worse than Rio and Creative, but better than the iPod.

Generally, it goes like this:

Best Audio Quality: Creative
Most Feature-Packer: iRiver
A balance between features and audio quality: Rio
The WTF catagory: Dell DJ
Easiest to use, and most likely to get you laid: iPod

[iMeowbot]

They showed an iPod connected straight to a HP printer and said you can print from the iPod.

they failed to say how you would get the pics onto the ipod in the first place
You use one of these Belkin thingies (http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=&pcount=&Product_Id=158350).

[iMeowbot]

Interesting Fact: The Dell DJ is made by Creative (I think). I definetly know it's firmware was made by Creative. The whole thing is probabaly made by Creative.

The reference design came from Creative, but Dell had the case designed independently and contract out for manufacturing separately.

And by the way, Creative's players sound the best. The iPods sound very very good, but the Creatives just sound better. And the Rio players sound better than the iPod. But not as good as Creative. iRiver is worse than Rio and Creative, but better than the iPod.

The iPod and the Rio Karma are virtually identical in the hardware department.

[swissmann]

I guess that if more iPods are sold because of this more power to apple and that is about the end of it. Once it comes out of the HP box it is just an apple iPod and most people won't see the box it came in.

[ixavi]

Worst keynote I've ever seen... but made me laugh a lot!!! We have to keep watching those keynotes, they are better than some TV comedies.

A few things to point out:
-Before: Hp Camera-->Printer-->Printed copy
-Now: Hp camera-->Computer-->iPod-->Printer-->Printed copy
Yeah, they innovate a lot! How does this simplify things? I just don't get it.

I know what would be cool, phil at the keynote demoing CoreImage:
- Well we have the video of this two HP losers dancing around so let's play a bit! We can add some gaussian blur.... some edge detection... in real time! Let's pump up the color a bit... and then add a text layer "The electric losers!". :D :D :D They were on LSD or what?
Everybody sh*tting their pants at the keynote! :p

[CubaTBird]

i can't seet the keynote on my ibook and i have wmp 9. it says an error has occured ? :confused: :( :confused:

[Aaon]

For those of us who missed what was obviously an amazing display of content and creativity, any word on a rebroadcast, or did someone record it?

I am pretty bored at work and I think hearing about photograffy and seeing some bad dancing by HP execs would perk me right up!

Aaron

[frequeniquity]

This is the ipod link for hp's website

http://h10049.www1.hp.com/music/us/en/ipod_flash.html?mtxs=home-ent&mtxb=B2&mtxl=L1

[valve83]

I have seen many posts regarding concern over Microsoft's alleged entrance into the digital music market; I would not worry about this at all. You'll have to forgive me if my thoughts wander off topic a bit. I believe that we are seeing the beginning of the end of Microsoft.

I really, totally, and wholeheartedly agree with you on this. I think they are looking very bad, and some of their disorganization and inconsistency is starting to come out now more than ever. It used to be only the very "in the know" who knew how much of a blunder of a technological company Microsoft really is (and has been for that matter). But now it's starting to trickle down to the less-informed, and there's definitely some bad publicity for Microsoft going on.

In short, I just plain don't like them, and I think that their lack of vision, organization, innovation and design will be the death of them in the end. Even if people still use their products, even if they retain a majority market share, they are dead to ME, and that's what really matters. I know their dirt, and I will not respect their products unless the company changes hands and directions drastically. The way they're headed right now is the way of the garbage disposal.

[Stewie]

I wonder if that's simply the WMA to AAC conversion that iTunes already does... seems sorta bad advertising if it is... it just seems odd that the HP iPod would have WMA in it.

When you follow the link it talks about iTunes playing the WMA, nothing is mentioned about the iPod. This is just the same WMA conversion that iTunes for windows currently does.

[xy14]

Back in January, I didn't think that this was a good move for Apple. But this morning I was on walmart.com looking around and I found something rather interesting. There was a link titled "Apple iPod from HP (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3264563&cat=96469&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A3983%3A96469%3A96469)". Now Apple's iPod is being sold at Wal-Mart thanks to HP!! Way to go!

[space2go]

And she keeps going on about this "journey", what's with that?


Guess she knows that once some mac fans get ahold of her she'll be going on a magical mystery tour..

[JoePike]

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story?id=6450450&rnd=1093452167341&has-player=unknown

Microsoft to debut music store on September 2nd. If they do actually score the Beatles in an exclusive contract...could be bad.

Oh, Beatles shmeatles. People go to the iTMS to buy new popular music, not overplayed hits from the sixties. Think about the average age of an iPod owner, or any other digital music player owner for that matter. What kind of music are they listening to? Who are their favorite artists? Granted the Beatles have a lot of classic songs that people still enjoy, but they're just not top-of-mind for the downloading generation.

-Joe

[debo]

Anybody notice that on hp's website it says that the 20 gig includes the dock?
hPod link (http://h10049.www1.hp.com/music/us/en/specs_flash.html)

[gekko513]

The HP Tattoos look really cool on their website.

[iMeowbot]

Anybody notice that on hp's website it says that the 20 gig includes the dock?
hPod link (http://h10049.www1.hp.com/music/us/en/specs_flash.html)
I think it's the same mistake Apple made. Notice on the picture captions at the top that they are labeled "20 GB" and "40 GB (w/ dock)"

[xy14]

Anybody notice that on hp's website it says that the 20 gig includes the dock?
hPod link (http://h10049.www1.hp.com/music/us/en/specs_flash.html)

No it doesn't. It says that it includes a dock connector, but where it says 20GB at the top, look to the right where it says 40GB (w/ dock).

[diamacibal]

But this morning I was on walmart.com looking around and I found something rather interesting. There was a link titled "Apple iPod from HP (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3264563&cat=96469&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A3983%3A96469%3A96469)". Now Apple's iPod is being sold at Wal-Mart thanks to HP!! Way to go!

But if you notice, right after that the Wal-Mart site warns the (h)iPod is not compatible with WM music downloads (I thought those were WMA files???):

"Important Note:
This player is not compatible with Wal-Mart Music Downloads."

What's up with that, then?

[Lancetx]

Back in January, I didn't think that this was a good move for Apple. But this morning I was on walmart.com looking around and I found something rather interesting. There was a link titled "Apple iPod from HP (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3264563&cat=96469&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A3983%3A96469%3A96469)". Now Apple's iPod is being sold at Wal-Mart thanks to HP!! Way to go!

That is precisely why this is a GREAT day for Apple. They'll also be going into places like Radio Shack, Staples, Costco, etc, where they've had no presence before today as well. Plus HP is launching a huge promotional campaign starting this weekend too. All of it is to Apple's benefit and it puts their name out everywhere.

[Lancetx]

But if you notice, right after that the Wal-Mart site warns the (h)iPod is not compatible with WM music downloads (I thought those were WMA files???):

"Important Note:
This player is not compatible with Wal-Mart Music Downloads."

What's up with that, then?

The Apple iPod from HP just like the regular Apple iPod won't play protected WMA files, that's all that means.

[sunmade]

I love how it actually is called... APPLE iPod + HP....

wuahahahaha

I thought it was a bad move at first, but now it is getting sweeter and sweeter!!

[Mr_Ed]

I really, totally, and wholeheartedly agree with you on this. I think they are looking very bad, and some of their disorganization and inconsistency is starting to come out now more than ever. It used to be only the very "in the know" who knew how much of a blunder of a technological company Microsoft really is (and has been for that matter). But now it's starting to trickle down to the less-informed, and there's definitely some bad publicity for Microsoft going on.

In short, I just plain don't like them, and I think that their lack of vision, organization, innovation and design will be the death of them in the end. Even if people still use their products, even if they retain a majority market share, they are dead to ME, and that's what really matters. I know their dirt, and I will not respect their products unless the company changes hands and directions drastically. The way they're headed right now is the way of the garbage disposal.

What you say sounds more like "wishful thinking" where the effect of bad publicity is concerned. Like you , I have no respect for M$ and the garbage they have been peddling all these years, and I would like nothing better than for them to just go away. I would also agree that in general, more people are becoming aware of the negative aspects of M$.

That said, I think they can put a dent in the on-line music sales without much effort. All they have to do is release a new version of their Windows Media Player that hooks up to their store and BAM! In no time at all, every "not so aware" Windows user out there (you would agree there are just a few of those :D) downloads it for free and they are off exploring whatever M$ wants to offer in the way of music.

Is the iTunes download free also? Sure. But someone looking to download iTunes is specifically looking to manage music and is at least aware enough of what they are getting to make a decision on the app. The Windows Media Player is already installed in most, if not all Windows machines out there. Most Windows Media Player users do not use that app for music so M$ can quickly tap into a vast number of users who might not even have considered buying on-line music yet, and "hook" them while they are still relatively new to the whole on-line music thing. Crappy situation? Yeah, but it is typical of the kind of advantage M$ has enjoyed for years due to the pervasiveness of its software/OS in the installed base.

[uv23]

I'm quite surprised that it's still white! I was expecting HP blue. Then again, the whole white thing is a big component of the iPod's chic cachet so good on HP for understanding that.

[spacedog]

One of the HP pages (http://h10049.www1.hp.com/music/us/en/additional_ipod_flash.html) has a very interesting bit of text discussing the various features of the iPod.
A new way to transfer.
You can use the FireWire or USB 2.0 cable that comes with iPod to connect the iPod to your computer and copy files. Word documents. Keynote presentations. Excel spreadsheets. Photoshop files. You name it.

Uhm...why would PC users care about transferring Keynote files? Any chance they're planning a Windows version? I couldn't find this text on Apple's website, although it's possible it was just accidentally pulled from some other materials.

[stevehaslip]

according to the 3X update on the main page the Hp iPods are just regular white iPods! all this hype over nothing! they're just the same as the regular iPods!

[agreenster]

WalMart selling the iPod? That's it. Apple will dominate the portable music player for years and years.

Wonder if my local Walmart has em now?

[micvog]

Anybody notice that on hp's website it says that the 20 gig includes the dock?
hPod link (http://h10049.www1.hp.com/music/us/en/specs_flash.html)

I don't think HP put a lot of thought into the information on their website. Notice that here (http://h10049.www1.hp.com/music/us/en/additional_ipod_flash.html) HP talks about the ability to sync your "Entourage" data with the Apple iPod from HP. Hmmm... I bet that is a really popular request from Windows users seing how Entourage does not exist on the PC.

[xy14]

WalMart selling the iPod? That's it. Apple will dominate the portable music player for years and years.

Wonder if my local Walmart has em now?

Wal-Mart says they won't be available until September 10th, and they might not get into most Wal-Mart stores anyways.

[sirjimithy]

I don't think HP put a lot of thought into the information on their website. Notice that here (http://h10049.www1.hp.com/music/us/en/additional_ipod_flash.html) HP talks about the ability to sync your "Entourage" data with the Apple iPod from HP. Hmmm... I bet that is a really popular request from Windows users seing how Entourage does not exist on the PC.

Just another example of the lack of passion put into the industry by the Wintel giants.

[xy14]

I don't think HP put a lot of thought into the information on their website. Notice that here (http://h10049.www1.hp.com/music/us/en/additional_ipod_flash.html) HP talks about the ability to sync your "Entourage" data with the Apple iPod from HP. Hmmm... I bet that is a really popular request from Windows users seing how Entourage does not exist on the PC.

Remember, HP's version of the iPod is compatible with the Mac, too.

[sirjimithy]

yeah, but it's just like when a lion escapes from the zoo in Africa.. nobody gives a @#$%.

[JDOG_]

Just another example of the lack of passion put into the industry by the Wintel giants.

Oh god, they probably just took the information straight from the Apple iPod site and put it up without double checking. Get off their backs man, HP is giving Apple a hand selling things...it starts with iPods and might develop into something bigger in the coming years.

[webmatthijs]

Where are the stickers on the website? I can't find 'em. I want something to chuckle at.

http://h10049.www1.hp.com/music/us/en/index_flash.jsp

here you go. you might have to click on the ipod tatoos though. you can chuckle as much as you want

[dotnina]

HP iPod description @ walmart.com (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3264563&cat=96469&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A3983%3A96469%3A96469):

The new Apple iPod from HP combines the best of both worlds: Apple's famous ease-of-use and cool design matched with the familiarity of a Microsoft Windows PC system.

Familiarity of a PC? Oh, right, because the regular 4Gs don't work with Windows. :rolleyes:

[webmatthijs]

Remember, HP's version of the iPod is compatible with the Mac, too.

remember the Mail.app is more popular in the macworld the the Entourage.app

[CubaTBird]

that click wheel on wal marts pages looks UBER ugly and dirty i must say

[sirjimithy]

Oh god, they probably just took the information straight from the Apple iPod site and put it up without double checking. Get off their backs man, HP is giving Apple a hand selling things...it starts with iPods and might develop into something bigger in the coming years.

That's the whole point, though. It's a small example, but it's still an example. Most of the colorful descriptions they throw around, if not taken directly from Apple, are uninformative, vague, or just extremely obvious. It's marketing aimed at the hordes of midless drones that stick up for with Windows as if it actually had any footing in the OS competition.

[iPost]

I don't see why this is happening...
It doesn't make sense at all...
WHY IS THIS HAPPENING?!?!

I thought this would be apparent to everyone, but I guess not...

It's simple...

One company does not have the ability to supply the entire world with portable music players. One company neither has the manufacturing capacity nor would be willing to take on the risk of investing in billions of dollars of raw materials to manufacture players to supply the entire world.

Because Apple is not licensing its FairPlay technology to the world (and as a result, only iPods can play FairPlay tunes), by the laws of economics alone, Apple and the iPod are guaranteed to lose out if Apple remains the sole supplier of iPods.

This is also the reason why the Macintosh, however great it is, will never replace the PC as the dominant personal computer... Apple simply doesn't have the capacity to supply the world's population with computers.

In fact, it's amazing that it has taken Apple so long to learn this lesson. The creator of the Mac (Jef Raskin) pointed this out to Apple way back in 1979!!! (http://humane.sourceforge.net/published/millions.html)

[bar italia]

It's marketing aimed at the hordes of midless drones that stick up for with Windows as if it actually had any footing in the OS competition.
Yes, Windows is certainly playing catch-up in the "OS competition".
:rolleyes:

[dizastor]

Those stickers look awesome!

I just put a sticker on my $400 iPod... now I just have to find my helmet and my drool cup.

[Object-X]

That said, I think they can put a dent in the on-line music sales without much effort. All they have to do is release a new version of their Windows Media Player that hooks up to their store and BAM! In no time at all, every "not so aware" Windows user out there (you would agree there are just a few of those :D) downloads it for free and they are off exploring whatever M$ wants to offer in the way of music.

Is the iTunes download free also? Sure. But someone looking to download iTunes is specifically looking to manage music and is at least aware enough of what they are getting to make a decision on the app. The Windows Media Player is already installed in most, if not all Windows machines out there. Most Windows Media Player users do not use that app for music so M$ can quickly tap into a vast number of users who might not even have considered buying on-line music yet, and "hook" them while they are still relatively new to the whole on-line music thing. Crappy situation? Yeah, but it is typical of the kind of advantage M$ has enjoyed for years due to the pervasiveness of its software/OS in the installed base.

This is what I am talking about, where MS will not be able to leverage their market share. It's true that if they come out with a service that some people will use it by default, but, the numbers will be very small for several reasons:

1. Apple's deal with HP means that even more PC users will have iTunes as the "default" player, not too mention the mind share.

2. Apple's deal with AOL and the integration of iTunes with their service gives Apple access (by default) to millions of PC users. What I mean by default is that clicking on a song link in AOL launches the iTunes player and music store.

3. Apple is getting A LOT of buzz regarding the iPod not too mention the fact that they are selling them like crazy.

4. Anyone who uses Media Player and iTunes will use iTunes. Media Player is buggy, it's user interface is very PC like, and a MS music store won't be any better.

5. BUT most importantly, time to market is a very relevant issue regarding digital music stores. Most people who are now using iTunes will continue to do so; they will not switch. No one will really like the idea of managing multiple DRM accounts for their music. They will pick one service and stick with it. Right now that service is Apple's iTunes music store. Every day that MS delays in releasing a service hundreds of new customers are signing up with iTunes. The game is over already. There will only be a few online music stores in the end and the ones who are playing right now stand the best chance of surviving. MS may release a store but will kill it with their proprietary stance and it will ultimately be too little too late. They will loose money on it and with all their other troubles will just kill it. Throw it in the trash can along with Real. Control Panel > add remove programs > are you sure you want to delete? Yes.

[SiliconAddict]

The strained high-five at the end of the video is worth hanging on for.

That has to be the worst product launch of a major IT company I've ever seen. Ever. I predict this clip will become a cult classic, much like Steve Ballmer's ape-dance.


http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif

OK. You've peaked my curiosity. I need to see this. For those who've seen it. Which be funnier? Ballmer or HP? I didn't think it was possible to outdo Sweat boy. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/xyxthumbs.gif

[jobberwacky]

Ah, the irony of the "iPod + HP" advert/trailer having "HP : Invent" at the end of it. *chuckles*
Probably just means that there's some (fresh) air blowing in at HP...

[SiliconAddict]

This is what I am talking about, where MS will not be able to leverage their market share. It's true that if they come out with a service that some people will use it by default, but, the numbers will be very small for several reasons:



Simple statement. Windows is the biggest advertising billboard in the history. MS has millions of system to advertise to.
Doing this is as simple as rolling an UPDATE into Windows XP SP3 next year. Or having it listed under a critical update that thanks to Windows XP SP2 will be enabled on EVERY XP system. So if I were MS I would roll out a new version of Media Player that has X, Y, and Z security update that the previous version didn't have and oh by the way. It now has this gosh cool feature that directly accesses their music store. So in one evening MS could roll out their music store to millions of users in a heartbeat. Of course this would probably violate their antitrust agreement by resetting the default player back to Media Player but we've got shrub in office. No lawsuit for you! :rolleyes:

[agreenster]

Those stickers look awesome!

I just put a sticker on my $400 iPod... now I just have to find my helmet and my drool cup.

HP claims they peel off easily. If that were the case, it might be okay.

[plazmyd]

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif

OK. You've peaked my curiosity. I need to see this. For those who've seen it. Which be funnier? Ballmer or HP? I didn't think it was possible to outdo Sweat boy. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/xyxthumbs.gif

Actually its 'piqued' not 'peaked' and I only know that because I got ripped for using it incorrectly on a maslash thread once.

But anyway, I want to see this too. Does anyone know if it is available somewhere?

[sirjimithy]

I agree that the MS music store will not go far, nor would they get anywhere if they released a portable music player or enorsed a particular music player. The iPod is a household name now. It's name is synonymous with music player, much like Band-aid has become synonymous with adhesive bandages.

[Object-X]

Simple statement. Windows is the biggest advertising billboard in the history. MS has millions of system to advertise to.
Doing this is as simple as rolling an UPDATE into Windows XP SP3 next year. Or having it listed under a critical update that thanks to Windows XP SP2 will be enabled on EVERY XP system. So if I were MS I would roll out a new version of Media Player that has X, Y, and Z security update that the previous version didn't have and oh by the way. It now has this gosh cool feature that directly accesses their music store. So in one evening MS could roll out their music store to millions of users in a heartbeat. Of course this would probably violate their antitrust agreement by resetting the default player back to Media Player but we've got shrub in office. No lawsuit for you! :rolleyes:

Just putting the player and store on the computer doesn't guarantee it's use. IE comes by default on all Windows computers but because of it's problems, lack of features, and security issues people are switching to other browsers in record numbers. So, yes, MS has the ability to get it's player and store to millions of it's customers, but will they use it? Meanwhile, Apple has been acting wisely in negotiating agreements with AOL and now HP to get their player and store on millions of Windows boxes. Once it is there people will try both and when it comes to real time competition MS can't compete.

[Mr_Ed]

This is what I am talking about, where MS will not be able to leverage their market share. It's true that if they come out with a service that some people will use it by default, but, the numbers will be very small for several reasons:

1. Apple's deal with HP means that even more PC users will have iTunes as the "default" player, not too mention the mind share.

2. Apple's deal with AOL and the integration of iTunes with their service gives Apple access (by default) to millions of PC users. What I mean by default is that clicking on a song link in AOL launches the iTunes player and music store.

3. Apple is getting A LOT of buzz regarding the iPod not too mention the fact that they are selling them like crazy.

4. Anyone who uses Media Player and iTunes will use iTunes. Media Player is buggy, it's user interface is very PC like, and a MS music store won't be any better.

5. BUT most importantly, time to market is a very relevant issue regarding digital music stores. Most people who are now using iTunes will continue to do so; they will not switch. No one will really like the idea of managing multiple DRM accounts for their music. They will pick one service and stick with it. Right now that service is Apple's iTunes music store. Every day that MS delays in releasing a service hundreds of new customers are signing up with iTunes. The game is over already. There will only be a few online music stores in the end and the ones who are playing right now stand the best chance of surviving. MS may release a store but will kill it with their proprietary stance and it will ultimately be too little too late. They will loose money on it and with all their other troubles will just kill it. Throw it in the trash can along with Real. Control Panel > add remove programs > are you sure you want to delete? Yes.

All good points and I only have small issues with #1, 4, and 5.

1. Apple's deal with HP means that even more PC users will have iTunes as the "default" player, not too mention the mind share.
This is great for buyers of new HP systems but ignores the legions of installed MS users out there, which was the crux of my concern about MS' potential role in on-line music.

4. Anyone who uses Media Player and iTunes will use iTunes. Media Player is buggy, it's user interface is very PC like, and a MS music store won't be any better.
It's no secret that WMP is not what you would call a "great" app. But once the users are hooked on to a music store, by your own analysis, they are not likely to switch. If they are buying music already from MS' store, they will need to stick to WMP for playing it. What's more, those tracks (if protected WMA files) won't play on the iPod so they are less likely to consider the iPod. My concern is that they can still "hook" MANY users who are uninformed or uninitiated in the on-line music arena very easily with somethng like a WMP update. Not very hard to do.

5. BUT most importantly, time to market is a very relevant issue regarding digital music stores. Most people who are now using iTunes will continue to do so; they will not switch. No one will really like the idea of managing multiple DRM accounts for their music. They will pick one service and stick with it. Right now that service is Apple's iTunes music store. Every day that MS delays in releasing a service hundreds of new customers are signing up with iTunes. The game is over already. There will only be a few online music stores in the end and the ones who are playing right now stand the best chance of surviving. MS may release a store but will kill it with their proprietary stance and it will ultimately be too little too late. They will loose money on it and with all their other troubles will just kill it. Throw it in the trash can along with Real. Control Panel > add remove programs > are you sure you want to delete? Yes.
While Apple reportedly has 70% of the on-line music sales business TODAY, that represents a TINY fraction of the music industry as a whole, and a small fraction of what the on-line sales business could become in the next few years. There is still plenty of room for a company with the installed base of apps/OS that MS has to come in and hook a nice chunk for itself. I hope you are right about MS getting in, testing the waters, then getting out, but I am not ready to count them out yet.

[CubaTBird]

iTunes music store still has some issues to work out.. For example, if you search for Cristian... You get one set of albums, if you search for Cristian Castro you get a diff set.. Yet, both are the same artist. btw, alguna vez is a good song from him. :p

[Bob Knob]

HNN/CNN just did a blurb on the HP iPod and said that you can "display the album artwork on the screen of the iPod..."
I assume they meant to say that you can put a sticker/tattoo on your iPod, far from a screen display.

[CubaTBird]

http://www.hpbroadband.com/program.cfm?key=B3Launch27Aug2004EXT

it says to attend u need a peecee with wmp.. wait, this is a deal between apple and hp right? :rolleyes:

[Xtremehkr]

I'm not a huge fan of HP, especially now that they have combined with Compaq especially. But, this was a smart move, I doubt that HP will make much or any profit from reselling iPods. What it will do for HP though is give them the popular edge over Dell. Dells MP3 player is awkward, cheap and ugly. MP3s seems to be here to stay, and that makes sense since they are the best way yet to carry music.

I imagine that MP3s will eventually become a fashion acessory, especially at colleges. So when selling laptops(or anything, laptops are popular with students), HP now offers it's own version of the iPod while Dell only has it's piece of junk. For college students who are looking for a good laptop and a cool fashion piece, HP is now the best choice.

Purists are still going to like the Apple iPods, they look better. I imagine just about everyone that has an iPod now will be a user for a long time. Hopefully this will guarantee iPods place at the top of the MP3 heap.

[Marsh451]

[/QUOTE]
it says to attend u need a peecee with wmp.. wait, this is a deal between apple and hp right? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

I ran into this problem also...but I found this in the source code:

http://wmbcast.hpmediasolutions-global.speedera.net/wmbcast.hpmediasolutions-global/wmbcast_hpmediasolutions-global_aug272004_0555_62638

put that into the open url option in Windows Media Player. Enjoy the cheesiest, laggiest, "streaming" product announcement thinga-ma-jig I've ever seen. Couldn't HP taken some pointers from Apple on streaming video. WMP really is garbage when it comes to playing any type of video.

[sinisterdesign]

Uhm...why would PC users care about transferring Keynote files? Any chance they're planning a Windows version? I couldn't find this text on Apple's website, although it's possible it was just accidentally pulled from some other materials.

let's remember that a "keynote presentation" was around long before Keynote®...

[dotnina]

The new Apple IPod from HP will be available online and through major retailers across the US, according to HP--including Circuit City, CompUSA, Best Buy, Office Depot, Staples, Radio Shack, Fry's, Amazon.com, and Costco.

Yes, HP = power of wide distribution.

Link to the PC World Story (http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,117623,00.asp)

[kirk26]

remember the Mail.app is more popular in the macworld the the Entourage.app


Sad but True.

[micvog]

Coming next year to a webcast near you: the xServe G5 from HP*.

You heard it here first.

*Tattoo stickers optional.

[geerlingguy]

I imagine that MP3s will eventually become a fashion acessory, especially at colleges.

'Eventually?' This has already happened - I've seen this happening all over my campus. Every day at least five people are walking around campus with an iPod on their waist or in their pocket and the trademark white earbuds leading to the ipod via the pretty white cable. Girls, guys, old, young, geek, computer neophytes—everyone likes them.

The only problem I see is price - I wouldn't have even thought about buying one (the 20 GB version) without the $200 rebate for purchasing it with a Mac laptop.

If Apple could bring the price down to $199, I could see many more people purchasing them - just for the 'coolness' factor.

[encro]

Oh please!...<snip>

I guess I could have phrased it a lot better, gone into more specific detail and removed the reference to failure but it was 3:45am so meh ;)

[ryanw]

I thought this would be apparent to everyone, but I guess not...

It's simple...

One company does not have the ability to supply the entire world with portable music players. One company neither has the manufacturing capacity nor would be willing to take on the risk of investing in billions of dollars of raw materials to manufacture players to supply the entire world.

Because Apple is not licensing its FairPlay technology to the world (and as a result, only iPods can play FairPlay tunes), by the laws of economics alone, Apple and the iPod are guaranteed to lose out if Apple remains the sole supplier of iPods.

This is also the reason why the Macintosh, however great it is, will never replace the PC as the dominant personal computer... Apple simply doesn't have the capacity to supply the world's population with computers.

In fact, it's amazing that it has taken Apple so long to learn this lesson. The creator of the Mac (Jef Raskin) pointed this out to Apple way back in 1979!!! (http://humane.sourceforge.net/published/millions.html)


What makes you think that Apple isn't manufacturing them and supplying them to HP?

[ariza910]

You use one of these Belkin thingies (http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=&pcount=&Product_Id=158350).

I doubt you would have to buy a product from belkin to use the ipod to HP printer feature.

[sirjimithy]

I doubt you would have to buy a product from belkin to use the ipod to HP printer feature.

You'll have to have some sort of photo card reader to get the pictures into the iPod.. unless HP makes their own card reader for the iPod, or makes a cable that connects the camera directly to the iPod, you'll need the Belkin card reader.

[JGowan]

Here's the stumper for me though. Why would you choose to buy an HP iPod over an Apple iPod? Besides the blue color, there really isn't a reason. Let's forget the brand and the color for a moment. It'll most likely have the same features, the same hardware, and same price.Well... it appears now that the blue color is no more. Thank God. But to answer your question... up till now if you wanted an ipod, you had to either have an Apple Store, CompUSA or other Mac Specialty store to get on... well you could buy it online from a variety of places, but then you have to wait (and who wants to do that?) Now, there will ipods in so many more places; wherever HP sells their wares, you'll have the ipod. It really makes sense. And honestly, I don't think HP will make much on each one of these. However, the mere fact that they are associated with THE GADGET TO HAVE means that it will only bolster their image of Reliability.

[tex210]

http://www.engadget.com/entry/8806814146067781/

a prototype hp accessory that works with the ipod for djs... works wirelessly (is that a word?)

Maybe getting photos onto the ipod could be wireless too?

[ITR 81]

So when will Compaq's start shipping with iTunes and with the option of a Compaq iPod

[sirjimithy]

So when will Compaq's start shipping with iTunes and with the option of a Compaq iPod

If there is any sanity left in this world, then never.

[CubaTBird]

it says "and error occured" when i try to play the stream? should i reinstall wmp 9? or use 7?

[ariza910]

You'll have to have some sort of photo card reader to get the pictures into the iPod.. unless HP makes their own card reader for the iPod, or makes a cable that connects the camera directly to the iPod, you'll need the Belkin card reader.

That is really lame, thats what I hate the PC world. everything is half fast.

If they were going to add iPod to HP printer capabilities then why not add HP digital camera to iPod for storing the pics.

[ariza910]

it says "and error occured" when i try to play the stream? should i reinstall wmp 9? or use 7?

The stream is over. its not being played again in a loop like apple keynotes.

[iZac]

im pleased that apple have more distribution channels for the iPod, it will help integrate apples name even further to the average PC users life. And DAMN, am i glad that they arnt the "HP blue" that colour made me sick.

Apples reason for giving HP access to a bastardised grey version was always that they could sell the old (read 3rd) generation iPod (being cheaper, and less desirable) under a different name, while touting their new generation iPod themselves. The fact we arnt seeing a grey 'HPod' must be that apple agev HP the choice of having an old, but HP branded iPod, or the newer, but apple branded iPod to sell. HP made the right decision by not diluting the 'iPodness' of that little white baby.

sorry if this has been said before, im too lazy to read 15 pages ;)

[CmdrLaForge]

On the bottom of the page http://www.shopping.hp.com/cgi-bin/hpdirect/shopping/scripts/product_detail/product_detail_view.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0984036092.1093634952@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccefadcmgjdelemcfngcfkmdflldfgg.0&landing=null&category=music&subcat1=ipod&product_code=PE436A%23ABA&catLevel=3%20

it definitly says compatibly with Windows - no Mac OS mentioned !

[denm316]

according to the hp site it has an illuminated click wheel, the apple ones dont have that.

[dotnina]

according to the hp site it has an illuminated click wheel, the apple ones dont have that.

Maybe they mean illuminated click wheel button labels? The Apple ones have that (I think?)

[slicecom]

Maybe they mean illuminated click wheel button labels? The Apple ones have that (I think?)

No, the Apple ones do not have illuminated click wheel buttons. One of the reasons i prefer the 3G.

[Freg3000]

Maybe they mean illuminated click wheel button labels? The Apple ones have that (I think?)

I don't think they have that either... :confused:

[Xtremehkr]

'Eventually?' This has already happened - I've seen this happening all over my campus. Every day at least five people are walking around campus with an iPod on their waist or in their pocket and the trademark white earbuds leading to the ipod via the pretty white cable. Girls, guys, old, young, geek, computer neophytes—everyone likes them.

The only problem I see is price - I wouldn't have even thought about buying one (the 20 GB version) without the $200 rebate for purchasing it with a Mac laptop.

If Apple could bring the price down to $199, I could see many more people purchasing them - just for the 'coolness' factor.

Yeah, hopefully from there it will be mainstream. Despite the price, I think it is a deal considering the number of things you can do with it. I could see it becoming the ultimate all in one device. But they have to get it out there and establish consumer loyalty. The iPod will do from the campus to the real world, good placement.

[Lancetx]

according to the hp site it has an illuminated click wheel, the apple ones dont have that.

Where does it say that on their site? I'm not seeing that listed as a feature.

<edit>: Ahh, I see now, it shows that on the HP Shopping site. Funny it doesn't mention this in any of the technical specification info. on their main site though or in the PDF spec sheet. Until we know for sure I'd be skeptical. It may just be another typo.

[scottwat]

Its great that more people are selling the ipod, but still apple does pretty good themselves, and they have other retail outlets. This isn't nearly as big a deal as a different colored ipod or an actual HP branded ipod. That would have been some news. Now its just another place selling ipods, amazon.com sells ipods, crutchfields sells ipods, even bose stores sell ipods. Atleast HP isnt coming out with some other lame mp3 player. They are atleast smart enough to offer their buyers the best player out there.

[the.snitch]

Wow. what an anti-climax all that was...

[paxtonandrew]

Just went onto the Hp site; http://h10049.www1.hp.com/music/us/en/index_flash.jsp, and they are advertising iTms, and iPod. All the links end up at Apple, even for the more info bit, and tgo download iTunes.

Requirements
PC with FireWire or USB 2.0 port, or FireWire or USB 2.0 card; Windows 2000 with Service Pack 4 or Windows XP Home or Professional
:eek: :eek: What happened to Apple support? This is supposed to be an Apple product? What a joke. Last time I buy anything HP!

[Dr. Dastardly]

I don't know how they can have the wheel light up when it seems like the exact same model Apple sells. And I doubt that Apple would let them change anything on the iPod without Apple giving some sort of nod to do so.

[Abstract]

"Now introducing the PowerMac, only from HP (and Apple)."

[aswitcher]

I don't know how they can have the wheel light up when it seems like the exact same model Apple sells. And I doubt that Apple would let them change anything on the iPod without Apple giving some sort of nod to do so.

Yeah I very much doubt their wheel lights up

[reyesmac]

Does this mean that the iPod will now be sold everywhere (in the US) that HP products are sold? Is this a way for Apple to have the iPod sold at places like Walmart?

[tex210]

There's even a picture of an iPod with the wheel glowing orange!

[Dr. Dastardly]

There's even a picture of an iPod with the wheel glowing orange!
Where? And are you sure thats not a "tatoo".

Thats another question, why the hell would someone want to cover up something thats design won countless awards and praise from critics.

[krohde]

Where? And are you sure thats not a "tatoo".

Thats another question, why the hell would someone want to cover up something thats design won countless awards and praise from critics.

It's all about personalizing your gadgets... this was one thing I had to agree with Carli about. I would love to design my own tattoo for the iPod.

How much you wanna bet someone has already registered some domain name like .... www.ipodtattoes.com???? A few days and u will see a website under construction somewhere made for this... and i think it will be quite big to be honest... its gonna be even bigger than exchangable phone covers like we have them here in Europe....

[tex210]

http://h10049.www1.hp.com/music/us/en/index_nf.html
to the left of the larger iPod picture.
but what do you think about my other post? Bad form to quote myself but...
http://www.engadget.com/entry/8806814146067781/

a prototype hp accessory that works with the ipod for djs...

here it is on the hp site...
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Mat_Hans/research/djammer/

[Dunepilot]

it just occurred to me that if one of those blue prototype hPods ever appears on ebay, it'll be worth bucks to a collector.

[morkintosh]

Why would Apple let HP sell iPods? Is Apple getting any of the money HP makes from using the iPod design? I don't understand why Apple wouldn't want to sell all the iPods, and not let HP get any of the profits.

to help kill any lingering notion that iPods are a mac only thing.

[iMeowbot]

I doubt you would have to buy a product from belkin to use the ipod to HP printer feature.
It's a good thing that nobody suggested that then. The Belkin device is used to extract photos from flash cards. The question being answered was about how photos would be put onto the iPod, not how they would later be printed (to which the answer is obvious: USB).

[c726e6f6e]

Oh, Beatles shmeatles. People go to the iTMS to buy new popular music, not overplayed hits from the sixties. Think about the average age of an iPod owner, or any other digital music player owner for that matter. What kind of music are they listening to? Who are their favorite artists? Granted the Beatles have a lot of classic songs that people still enjoy, but they're just not top-of-mind for the downloading generation.

-Joe

I'm 24, and would love to be able to download Beatles tracks from the iTMS, and I think your assumption about the average age of an iPod owner being a demographic that doesn't care about The Beatles is rather flawed. I know a good number of people as well who have been waiting for The Beatles to get onto the music store so that they can download them. It's alot more of a concern than you might think. In thinking about the average age of an iPod owner, it occurs to me that it's someone who's going to be old enough to be making enough money to drop $300 to $400 (not counting tax, or any accessories that they might buy at the time of purchase) without having to eat ramen exclusively for the next month; the majority of iPod owners are not spoiled rich kids whose parents buy whatever they want for them at the drop of a hat. I was able to purchase my iPod because $400 is less than one weekly paycheque (so I got the voice recorder, too ;) ). In fact, the great majority of iPod owners that I've even seen walking down the street or riding the bus or jogging around Greenlake or whathaveyou are all *gasp* adults. In fact, given that the overwhelming majority of purchasing power worldwide comes from adults, and that a massive amount of adults are Beatles fans (and that more people become fans every day), these fans probably want to be able to legally purchase their music in a downloadable format that will play on their nice, new expensive iPod that that they worked hard for, and it would be a consumer base that anybody would be striving to get ahold of. I myself have only purchased one Beatles album (the White Album) on CD (well, okay, I actually asked for it as an x-mas present), and have not purchased any more because I'm able to see the future that is online music stores (especially in light of the fact that I'm getting sick and tired of packing and unpacking the 200-odd CDs that I own whenever I move) and know that I want to be purchasing music from online music stores from now on. And there are plenty of people out there that are in the same position, so can you blame them for wanting to be able to purchase songs from a band they really like from a music store that they really like? 'Seems pretty logical to me. And the bottom line is that if that's what it takes for Apple to get more people to buy from their store, then that's what it takes. You may not ever listen to Skinny Puppy, for example, but when people were able to start downloading Too Dark Park from the iTMS, then a lot of Skinny Puppy fans started getting onto the iTMS. To quote 'Field of Dreams', "If you build it, they will come."

Also, people don't go to the iTMS to buy new, popular music: they go to the iTMS to buy music that they like. That's why most people go to music stores, online or not.

That aside, what's all this nonsense I hear about supply issues with the 4G iPods? I just ordered mine from the online Apple store yesterday, and thanks to the tracking number that Apple provided, I'm able to see that it's in transit. That doesn't seem indicative of a supply shortage to me...

[c726e6f6e]

I forgot the entire reason I was going to post in the first place!

The whole Apple + HP thing reminds me alot, actually, of Iomega and the ZIP drive back in the 90's. It was all about getting out that installed user base. Months after Iomega debuted the ZIP drive, they began licensing it out to other manufacturers (damned if I can remember any of the manufacturers, but I remember they were big electronics companies), who began selling their own <company name> Iomega ZIP Drives®. The point of doing this was so that there would be more of an installed user base of ZIP drive owners out there, and they could sell more and more of their ZIP disks, which was where they made the real killing.

And think about it; it's great and all that now you can buy iPods from places like Wal-Mart, but think about all the other places that HP sells their products, like Fred Meyer (although I don't know if they have those stores on the east coast). I mean, being able to go to your local neighbourhood Fred Meyer to buy and iPod is just mind blowing. Things like that are how you make your product a common household name. I think the move is utterly brilliant on Apple's part.

[iDave]

...(especially in light of the fact that I'm getting sick and tired of packing and unpacking the 200-odd CDs that I own whenever I move)...
Do what I did; put all your music in iTunes, throw away all the CD jewel cases and get yourself a couple of CD storage boxes. 200 CDs take up remarkably little space in your closet that way.

HP is launching a big iPod advertising campaign starting Sunday. iPods are going to become huge (as if they weren't already). They'll become as ubiquitous as the toaster, I think.

[iMeowbot]

The deal with HP basically means that Apple is giving up distribution of iPods in brick and mortar stores to HP ...

I suppose that is good news for iPod penetration in the retail segment - but the question is whether Apple will maintain separate distribution arrangements for its computers. More likely to concentrate on Apple stores and give up on other retail presence?
This really isn't a brand new thing. Years ago, many Mac models were sold under regular model numbers through traditional Apple dealers and the education market, and branded "Performa" in other channels. Then as now, the actual differences were minor, mostly packaging and slightly different software or accessory bundles.

A big problem back then was that Apple weren't very good at supporting retailers, and it showed in the way stores neglected those products. HP have figured out how to deal with this channel, and the arrangement spares Apple the hassle of dealing with it.

[~Shard~]

How much you wanna bet someone has already registered some domain name like .... www.ipodtattoes.com???? A few days and u will see a website under construction somewhere made for this... and i think it will be quite big to be honest... its gonna be even bigger than exchangable phone covers like we have them here in Europe....

I don't know how popular that website will be actually - maybe it'll be big for people who can't spell, but for the rest of us, we'll be waiting for www.ipodtattoos.com... Mind you, maybe www.ipodtattooes.com will be frequently visited by confused fans who always check www.apppel.com for updates... :p :cool:

[jbembe]

HP iPod description @ walmart.com (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3264563&cat=96469&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3944%3A3983%3A96469%3A96469):



Familiarity of a PC? Oh, right, because the regular 4Gs don't work with Windows. :rolleyes:

I LOVE THIS!!!!


Important Note:
This player is not compatible with Wal-Mart Music Downloads. :D

[jobberwacky]

I forgot the entire reason I was going to post in the first place!

I mean, being able to go to your local neighbourhood Fred Meyer to buy and iPod is just mind blowing.
Yes, this is ever so rad. Pssst, did anyone ever tell you that the world ain't flat? How about that for a mind boggler? Shatters your belief system, don't it?

[Mord]

I don't see why this is happening...
It doesn't make sense at all...
WHY IS THIS HAPPENING?!?!

so apple gets itunes pre installed on all hp stuff, thus getting them used to apple software.

[mixgrafix]

For the first time, a product that Apple Computer, Inc has designed, built, tested, marketed, and refined will be sold everywhere. I think that it is ironic that "Applephobes" who would never touch and iPod from an Apple Store or an online retailer, will now be able to walk into a Sam's Club, Wal-Mart, Costco, or a Radio-Shack, and pick up one of our beloved magical devices, and simply because the letters "HP" are laser engraved in the back of it, feel better about purchasing it because it comes from the windows world. This is the mentallity of PC users. Ask a PC user if they love their computer, and they will laugh at you. Ask a Mac user if they love their computer, and they will say yes, and they will tell you all about it. This is where Apple made the right move by putting the perrienial foot in the door.

This is a brilliant move by Apple, and something I wrote about a few weeks ago, for Apple to "Appleize" the PC industry. Get people to feel comfortable with your equipment, and then out of human nature, people become curious, and want to find out more about there products. They start to look at the Apple platform, and that may just be HP's by Apple running OSX. We know that the operating system is more stable, does not crash, and easier to use, but the masses still think that Mac's are for education. Why? I deal with fixing windows machines all the time for small businesses, and the reality is people fear change and the "unknown". Walk into a Best Buy or Costco or a Radio Shack. ALL PC's. NO MACS. I would love to walk into Best Buy, and see a G5 PowerMac or iMac by HP. This may be the start of increasing market share by piggybacking on HP's distrbution channels.

Smart Move Apple, Smart Move Steve.

[aswitcher]

This is where Apple made the right move by putting the perrienial foot in the door.


Smart Move Apple, Smart Move Steve.

Yep, and eres hoping that apple push out the imac or another entry level machine or device to increase their attractiveness to the pc world.

[fratrow]

Won't you all look pretty silly when the press conference comes... HP shows their BLUE iPod... and everyone realizes that the pictures on HPs website were only SPACE HOLDERS!

Things that make you go HMMMM!

[frequeniquity]

what are you talking about? the webcast showed white ipods. :confused:

[tny]

I'm 24, and would love to be able to download Beatles tracks from the iTMS, and I think your assumption about the average age of an iPod owner being a demographic that doesn't care about The Beatles is rather flawed. I myself have only purchased one Beatles album (the White Album) on CD (well, okay, I actually asked for it as an x-mas present), and have not purchased any more because I'm able to see the future that is online music stores (especially in light of the fact that I'm getting sick and tired of packing and unpacking the 200-odd CDs that I own whenever I move) and know that I want to be purchasing music from online music stores from now on. And there are plenty of people out there that are in the same position, so can you blame them for wanting to be able to purchase songs from a band they really like from a music store that they really like?

Well, I'm old enough that I bought my CD of Sgt. Pepper's on the day it was released, on lunch-break from my job (the CD, not the album). I also own an iPod, a G5, and an iBook - I bought the iBook because I always wanted a NeXT box, but couldn't afford one when they were around. Now I have about 300 iTMS downloads, and 200 CDs. I treat iTMS downloads as singles (you youngsters wouldn't know about this - once upon a time, when music was analog and on vinyl, they had smaller phono records that rotated faster, called 45s, that had one song on each side). I almost never buy a whole album, but buy individal tracks that catch my interest - everything from Ligeti (the violin works, not just the stuff that Kubrick used) to Leonard Cohen to The Offspring to Shinedown.

They used to say the same thing about the Beatles when the CDs came out (the Beatles have very unusual deals with their labels, and it wasn't until 1987 that the first Beatles CDs came out - it took that long for EMI and the US labels to come to an agreement with the Beatles' agents). Young critics (mostly about my age, then) claimed that everyone who wanted the Beatles already had them on vinyl or cassette, and the CD sales would be disappointing. When the CDs came out, they sold fast - in the UK, Sgt Peppers, for instance, hit #3 in 1987. That's right - a 20 year-old album hit #3. It hit #6 in 1992 (couldn't find US figures).

Will I buy the Beatles on iTMS? Probably not, as I have most of their stuff on CD already, and the CDs aren't that difficult to store and ship for me. But I suspect that they'll continue to be sold at pretty high rates for years to come. So the iTMS issue is something that will have to be resolved, eventually - probably to the great financial enrichment of the Beatles, and whatever remaining Apple Corps stockholders there are.

[zim]

I think that it is funny that no where on HP's site does it say compatible with mac, only windows... hehe... I know, most people will know but still, there are a few dumbbells out there :D

[ariza910]

It's a good thing that nobody suggested that then. The Belkin device is used to extract photos from flash cards. The question being answered was about how photos would be put onto the iPod, not how they would later be printed (to which the answer is obvious: USB).

I asked the question of how the Printing feature would work on the HP printers. the iPod to printer part is obviously usb.

The question is how HP expects its iPod+HP customers to get the pictures on their iPods in the first place, I cant believe they would expect them to have to buy a third party product for that.

Surely HP will come out with their own card reader or new HP cameras will be able to dump pictures straight to Hpods.

[rdowns]

I think that it is funny that no where on HP's site does it say compatible with mac, only windows... hehe... I know, most people will know but still, there are a few dumbbells out there :D

WHy would they mention Mac compatibility? THey market to Windows users.

[gco212]

First of all, yes, people do buy music from the sixties on the ITMS. Right now the #9 album being downloaded is American Beauty by the Grateful Dead. And I believe the reason that the Beatles have yet to sign with ITMS is that they are very angry with Apple. You see, the Beatles recording company is Apple Records, and when Apple Computers started, Apple Computers agreed to not enter the mucic business. Now, they are in a minor dispute. I don't see any trial or anything, but it will probably be a while before the Beatles go to ITMS.

[morkintosh]

First of all, yes, people do buy music from the sixties on the ITMS. Right now the #9 album being downloaded is American Beauty by the Grateful Dead. And I believe the reason that the Beatles have yet to sign with ITMS is that they are very angry with Apple. You see, the Beatles recording company is Apple Records, and when Apple Computers started, Apple Computers agreed to not enter the mucic business. Now, they are in a minor dispute. I don't see any trial or anything, but it will probably be a while before the Beatles go to ITMS.

there is actually pending litigation on this http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3105444.stm

[iFaulder]

Now its only time till my dumb PC friends say HP invented the iPod. :D

[~Shard~]

Now its only time till my dumb PC friends say HP invented the iPod. :D

Not only that HP invented the iPod, but also that Apple stole it from HP... :rolleyes:

[kyeblue]

20G model priced at 299. Start shipping on September 10.

[CholEoptera36]

First of all, yes, people do buy music from the sixties on the ITMS. Right now the #9 album being downloaded is American Beauty by the Grateful Dead. And I believe the reason that the Beatles have yet to sign with ITMS is that they are very angry with Apple. You see, the Beatles recording company is Apple Records, and when Apple Computers started, Apple Computers agreed to not enter the mucic business. Now, they are in a minor dispute. I don't see any trial or anything, but it will probably be a while before the Beatles go to ITMS.

I don't blame the Beatles one bit. And a simple fact that companies have to be careful of these things. If MS can get sued by Real for something as stupid as having WindowsXP come with WMP (which would be like Apple getting sued by MS for having OS X come with iTunes or somehting...), then I don't see why Apple shouldn't get sued for what they did to the Beatles. It happens to all major companies, sooner or later.

Now its only time till my dumb PC friends say HP invented the iPod. :D

Yeah and there's a lot of people who think Apple makes G4 and G5 processors... Or any of their own hardware for that matter. Not memory, video cards, motherboards, hard drives, CPUs, sound cards, combo/super drives, or any of that stuff is made by Apple. It's okay for apple to sell PC hardware but it's not okay for PC companies to sell Apple products? yeah okay... even the new displays aren't made by Apple, they only design their computers and they make their own OS that's all. And a lot of that is jointly developed with partner companies too. Hope that doesn't come off too sarcastic, but it's true.

Aside from all that, this is a smart move by Apple to allow HP to sell iPods. Increase the amount of sales by taking advantage of the massive PC population that is already established. It might even get some die hard PC people to think of switching. Make it as easy as possible to sell your products, even if through another vendor. Thankfully they aren't HP blue though(as of the moment that is), although they do have those tattoo things you can get for them now... yuck. All in all still a good move by Apple though.

[tex210]

how can people have a problem with personalizing the ipod with non-destructive, self printable stickers? But then again, I don't get where this thread went either.... :rolleyes:
Does anyone think the scrollwheel will illuminate after an update? The great & mysterious hidden feature? :D

[CholEoptera36]

how can people have a problem with personalizing the ipod with non-destructive, self printable stickers?

Hope I didn't rub things the wrong way with my comment about the tattoos.

I guess it just looks weird seeing an iPod or any Apple product personalized to that extent. Usually personallizing your mac with color is as far as we've seen before. Everybody's G5 PowerPC looks the same, as do all PowerBooks, iBooks, eMacs, yada yada... It's just an odd change in style for an Apple product to be decorated with a sticker of choice like that I guess. Kinda reminds me of how everybody gets those face plates for their cell phones, or how everyone has those annoying ring tones that they think are so cute. Just a personal oppinion that's all. ;)

[kangaroo]

I haven't read through all the posts but to answer those of you who are baffled by this arrangment--it's simple: HP will help sell more iPods and (presumably) more computers because of their connection to iPods. To increase sales, however, HP should add an iPod option while ticking through either a Pavillion or Presario computer purchase.

[manu chao]

Macminute has posted some print ads from HP for the iPod:
http://www.macminute.com/2004/08/27/hpprintads

Especially the second one reminds me of Apple's ads.

[CholEoptera36]

Yeah Manu Chao, that second one looks like a page straight out of Apple advertisement. I wonder if Apple is going to be behind the HP advertisements of the iPod?

[JGowan]

... You see, the Beatles recording company is Apple Records, and when Apple Computers started, Apple Computers agreed to not enter the mucic business...I think you just might get the Nobel Prize in Journalism with this incredible story, yet to be seen anywhere. :D

[macguymike]

I treat iTMS downloads as singles (you youngsters wouldn't know about this - once upon a time, when music was analog and on vinyl, they had smaller phono records that rotated faster, called 45s, that had one song on each side).

Last I checked, "singles" are not a thing of days-gone-by. I've bought many CD singles that include a single track (whichever song was selected from the album for FM play) along with a song (or two) that was not released with the main album or sometimes a remix (or several) of the single track. I own "singles" in CD format from Metallica, Nine Inch Nails and Type O Negative.

[CholEoptera36]

I think you just might get the Nobel Prize in Journalism with this incredible story, yet to be seen anywhere. :D

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just wondering. Is this not a reliable source, BBC news?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3105444.stm

Although... it is in the entertainment section... :p

[iDave]

I think JGowan meant that as sarcasm, with a smile. It's pretty old news. :)

[CholEoptera36]

I think JGowan meant that as sarcasm, with a smile. It's pretty old news. :)

I got what he was saying ;) Just wasn't sure if that source was a good one or not. I had no idea it was old knews, lol I just now am hearing of it is why I'm a little confused.

[~Shard~]

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just wondering. Is this not a reliable source, BBC news?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3105444.stm

Although... it is in the entertainment section... :p

Um, JGowan's post was dripping with sarcasm. This is such old news and has been discussed so much (not only on MacRumors), that the only way anyone couldn't have heard about it is if they've been living for the past few years in a cave... on Mars... with their fingers in their ears... :cool:

[JLS]

I havent read all 17 pages of this thread so sorry if this is a repeat..


"Hewlett-Packard's white iPod will be sold in 20-gigabyte and 40-gigabyte versions for $299 and $399, respectively, he said. Apple's prices are the same."


http://www.iht.com/articles/536170.html

[~Shard~]

I havent read all 17 pages of this thread so sorry if this is a repeat..


"Hewlett-Packard's white iPod will be sold in 20-gigabyte and 40-gigabyte versions for $299 and $399, respectively, he said. Apple's prices are the same."


http://www.iht.com/articles/536170.html

Yep, already mentioned a few times - but nice try! ;) :cool:

[Jackal05]

What the hell? This is like a total rip off. Why did even Apple let them do something like that?

[manu chao]

Yeah Manu Chao, that second one looks like a page straight out of Apple advertisement. I wonder if Apple is going to be behind the HP advertisements of the iPod?

I assume they at least talk to each other about their respective campaigns. However, the first (and also the third) ad is/are done in the usual HP style (or am I confusing things with Sony?).

[CholEoptera36]

I assume they at least talk to each other about their respective campaigns. However, the first (and also the third) ad is/are done in the usual HP style (or am I confusing things with Sony?).

Yeah you can definitely see a difference between the pictures. Apple has a very distinct way of advertising iTunes and iPods, as well as HP has their own look and feel to their advertisements. I wonder how this will play out by the time HP makes iPod commercials on TV? It would be kinda weird not seeing those dancing figures holding iPods like the traditional Apple iPod ads.

By looking at the ads, it reminds me in a way of how HP advertises for their cameras and photo printing. Very individual based, uniqueness, you are in control of your destiny type of ads. I'm no expert in advertisements, but what do you think?

[macumus]

I wonder if HP licensed this iMac image from Apple. Can they do that otherwise? Did the linux guys license it? Maybe HP is going to license OS X from Apple and this is just a precursor?

From a ZDNET video story about HP w/ Linux:
it's on the desktop, part of an icon for "My Computer", third one down in the close up. about 30 seconds into the video clip. realplayer


http://zdnet.com.com/1606-2-5298692.html

[iJon]

hp's ipod commercial just showed on the vma's. it was badass. i thought it was cooler than apple's commercials. of course not as flashy as colored backgrounds, but it was still really cool.

iJon

[CholEoptera36]

hp's ipod commercial just showed on the vma's. it was badass. i thought it was cooler than apple's commercials.

Sweet, I can't wait to see them :D I'm turning on the VMA's right now actually;)

[iJon]

Sweet, I can't wait to see them :D
it had people dancing to the complete opposite music than they normally would. country dancers line dancing to hip hop. punk rock moshing to some classical stuff. then break dancers doing you got served stuff to some other kind of music, i can't remember it. if you guys want to see it im sure they will show it again, just turn on mtv. Apple also had their latest ipod spot played during the show.

iJon

[CholEoptera36]

it had people dancing to the complete opposite music than they normally would. country dancers line dancing to hip hop. punk rock moshing to some classical stuff. then break dancers doing you got served stuff to some other kind of music, i can't remember it. if you guys want to see it im sure they will show it again, just turn on mtv. Apple also had their latest ipod spot played during the show.

iJon

That's awesome man, I'm definitely gonna have to catch it. I've been anticipating the new advertisements all week :)

[iJon]

they just showed hp's logo before break, so they may show it again right now. check it out guys.

edit: yep, it's on again, but they aren't showing the whole thing

iJon

[geerlingguy]

they just showed hp's logo before break, so they may show it again right now. check it out guys.

edit: yep, it's on again, but they aren't showing the whole thing

iJon

Anybody have a web link or recorded video?

I don't quite get MTV. ;)

[CholEoptera36]

Anybody have a web link or recorded video?

I don't quite get MTV. ;)

Wish I did man, I'd definitely give ya one. I saw the commercial too and it looks really kool. I think this is going to help Apple out a lot by selling iPods with HP after seeing the advertisement. It's like a reminder to everyone that the iPod is still the best Mp3 player in the world...

[iJon]

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/hpads/you/music/index.html

iJon

[jonatan_bien]

I really didn't like the adv. of HP. Apple Adv look *much* cooler :D
Also now the iPod has become not a product but a category: which is much cooler because it distinguish it from the others :)

[iMeowbot]

I wonder if HP licensed this iMac image from Apple.
In the video they say it's SuSE's desktop.
Can they do that otherwise? Did the linux guys license it? Maybe HP is going to license OS X from Apple and this is just a precursor?
I doubt that it's Apple's image. Why would they produce a picture of a Mac with a Penguin leaning on it? Apple normally obtain design patents rather than copyrights on their hardware appearance, so the shape isn't going to be protected in an icon.

[iMeowbot]

I guess it just looks weird seeing an iPod or any Apple product personalized to that extent. Usually personallizing your mac with color is as far as we've seen before.
Nah. Especially with the old toaster Macs, it was really common to plaster them with stickers or paint them in all sorts of weird designs. The PowerBook 1400 even had a special translucent panel on the lid just for that purpose.

[nagromme]

Here's a pic of the tattoos, if you haven't gotten any other images to work:

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/TECH/ptech/08/30/digitalmusic.ap/storyII.IPOD.AP.gif

That one looks bad, and most people will want white I think. But some good things:

1. You can design and print your OWN on pre-cut tattoos. That's actually cool.

2. The corners are always a problem with these sticker-skins, but HP curved them in a way that looks better than most.

3. They're not permanent. Change them any time or go back to white.

From:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/08/30/digitalmusic.ap/index.html

This HP deal won't transform HP into a cool consumer brand. But it will sell a ton of iPods!

[geerlingguy]

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/hpads/you/music/index.html

iJon

I think the ads might be pretty good if viewed on a TV in real time. HP needs to find a way to get better quality ads on their site (<cough>use QuickTime</cough>)!

The ads were groggy grayish in color, and about 10 fps, with jerky motion (it's not a problem on my end - I used WMP's buffer-ability to buffer the whole thing before it played). WMP is really lousy - why don't PC companies realize this?

[Mac MMG]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/08/30/digitalmusic.ap/index.html

Note this paragraph:

“As part of the deal with Apple, HP has also begun bundling Apple's iTunes jukebox software and iTunes Music Store with all of its computers. HP's upcoming new digital entertainment center -- a hub that stores digital music, photos and videos and hooks up with a home television and stereo system -- will also feature the iTunes software.”

Let see if apple announces this Hub tomorrow.

[itsa]

Just saw the HP ipod commercial on NBC at 11:47 PM est.

[iJon]

I think the ads might be pretty good if viewed on a TV in real time. HP needs to find a way to get better quality ads on their site (<cough>use QuickTime</cough>)!

The ads were groggy grayish in color, and about 10 fps, with jerky motion (it's not a problem on my end - I used WMP's buffer-ability to buffer the whole thing before it played). WMP is really lousy - why don't PC companies realize this?i don't mind wmp to much, if they encode it high enough. that was a real small file, have to remember that. i do like quicktime better, but wmp has some features i like. i love how i can double click any video and it goes to full screen, last time i checked quicktime doesn't do that, nor does wmp on os x.

iJon