PDA

View Full Version : Grisly ... WY man uses Craigslist to set up ex for rape


mkrishnan
Feb 8, 2010, 09:19 AM
http://www.freep.com/article/20100206/NEWS07/100206012/?imw=Y

CASPER, Wyo. ó Authorities say a Wyoming woman was assaulted at her front door, raped at knifepoint in her living room and left bound on the floor, and they say one of the men charged in the brutal attack claimed that he thought it was invited.

Two men are accused in the crime. One is charged with carrying out the rape. The other, the womanís ex-boyfriend, stands accused of posing as the victim online and claiming she harbored a rape fantasy and wanted to be assaulted.

The case in the central Wyoming city of Casper, population 54,000, illustrates that middle America isnít immune to the dangers of Internet anonymity and predators who target victims through online ads that hint at sex and prostitution.

Prosecutor Mike Blonigen, the Natrona County district attorney, declined to comment on the specifics of the ongoing rape case. But he said Internet cases generally pose a challenge to law enforcement.

This was actually very closely the plot of a Law & Order: SVU episode (http://www.aceshowbiz.com/tv/episodeguide/law_order_special_victims_unit_s10_e21/) last season.

GuyNextDoor
Feb 8, 2010, 09:54 AM
Similar to the plot of an NCIS episode a couple years back.

And I believe you meant "grisly." Please use a dictionary, don't make stuff up.

instaxgirl
Feb 8, 2010, 10:32 AM
And I believe you meant "grisly." Please use a dictionary, don't make stuff up.

Please read the forum rules and don't comment on others' spelling. Especially since "grizzly", while not correct in this context, is actually a word.

And as for that story - sick :(

mscriv
Feb 8, 2010, 11:41 AM
I saw that SVU episode and figured, like most Law & Order episodes, that it was loosely based on some true story in some way. So, I'm sure this is not the first time this has happened. It's completely disgusting to think that someone would actually carry out such an act thinking that someone desired it.

In our hypersexualized society I understand that fantasy is a routine part of some people's sex lives, but to believe that someone would engage in such violent sexual behavior with a complete stranger without involving prior communication regarding boundaries, safety, etc. etc. is just absurd. People must learn that the internet cannot be trusted for such things without real human interaction for confirmation.

The other alternative is that the ex-boyfriend set this whole thing up and is wanting to use the online ad as an alibi in order to deny responsibility or garner a reduced punishment. In other words saying "I just did it as a joke" when he intended to do harm from the beginning. Regardless of his intentions the end result is the same and he should be held responsible.

velocityg4
Feb 8, 2010, 11:50 AM
This sounds vaguely familiar to something I read about not too long ago. What is interesting is that Craigslist thinks requiring a working credit card and phone number will stop most illicit services in the Adult section.

Can't one just anonymously get a Visa or Mastercard prepaid gift card and prepaid cellphone anonymously?

andiwm2003
Feb 8, 2010, 01:53 PM
I hope for long prison sentences for all of them. "I thought I was invited" my ass. 10 years for the rape and 20 for stupidity or audacity to use that defense.

mkrishnan
Feb 8, 2010, 02:25 PM
Can't one just anonymously get a Visa or Mastercard prepaid gift card and prepaid cellphone anonymously?

Probably... it's hard for me to conceive of a service like this being safe without some serious precautions -- like background checks. OTOH, I do have to say that my experience with online dating (not through Craigslist) has been relatively problem free. I've met women who are jerks, but not on this kind of magnitude (and the stories from my female friends are jerkfacey at worst, too).

I can sort of understand that certain kinds of violent crimes are fleetingly tantalizing, you know, for maybe 2-3 seconds at a time? It seems fairly depraved to me that anyone would actually put in the effort to do something like this; I'd be concerned about whether this person has done other disgusting things or is likely to do more in the future.

localoid
Feb 9, 2010, 01:42 AM
Would someone please add some more chlorine to the gene pool?

notjustjay
Feb 9, 2010, 11:51 AM
There's just so many things wrong with this (both the actual scenario, and the fantasy premise upon which it was based).

I get that people have fetishes. People are into some strange things, fair enough. But someone having rape fantasies seems to me more like they need to seek professional help.

Then there's the problem of being OK with your partner having such fantasies. You know, if I was dating a girl and I found out that this was what she wanted, I'm sorry, but it would be over. I couldn't pretend to do it, I don't get off on it.

Then there's the third party, the complete stranger who takes all this at face value and never seems to stop and say, "wait, what?"

MarkCollette
Feb 9, 2010, 01:57 PM
There's just so many things wrong with this (both the actual scenario, and the fantasy premise upon which it was based).

I get that people have fetishes. People are into some strange things, fair enough. But someone having rape fantasies seems to me more like they need to seek professional help.

Then there's the problem of being OK with your partner having such fantasies. You know, if I was dating a girl and I found out that this was what she wanted, I'm sorry, but it would be over. I couldn't pretend to do it, I don't get off on it.

Umm, it's actually very typical for women to have that type of fantasy. You might want to reconsider that specific judgmental preconception.

mscriv
Feb 9, 2010, 02:41 PM
Umm, it's actually very typical for women to have that type of fantasy. You might want to reconsider that specific judgmental preconception.

I'm afraid I would have to disagree with the word "typical" in this instance. I've never seen a study on it or a survey, but in my personal experience no woman fantasizes about being raped. They may fantasize about being with a stranger or like anonymous rough sex, but I've never known a woman who really wants intimacy to be paired with genuine fear, a real threat of violence, and the possibility of death. Don't believe everything you see on TV or in pornography. Male fantasy and female fantasy are very different.

notjustjay
Feb 9, 2010, 02:46 PM
I'm afraid I would have to disagree with the word "typical" in this instance. I've never seen a study on it or a survey, but in my personal experience no woman fantasizes about being raped. They may fantasize about being with a stranger or like anonymous rough sex, but I've never known a woman who really wants intimacy to be paired with genuine fear, a real threat of violence, and the possibility of death. Don't believe everything you see on TV or in pornography. Male fantasy and female fantasy are very different.

Thanks. I'm not talking about playful bondage type situations here, or liking it rough. This is a whole other level.

If my partner wanted me to hold them at knifepoint or gunpoint or choke them to within an inch of consciousness, I would walk out, sorry, whether or not you feel that is within the realm of "typical" is one thing but personally I would not feel comfortable playing out those scenarios at all.

niuniu
Feb 9, 2010, 02:52 PM
http://www.statesman.com/multimedia/dynamic/00170/Internet_Assault_JP_170166e.jpg
Jebediah James

I always like to see what the people who get up to this sort of thing look like..

mscriv
Feb 9, 2010, 02:54 PM
Thanks. I'm not talking about playful bondage type situations here, or liking it rough. This is a whole other level.

If my partner wanted me to hold them at knifepoint or gunpoint or choke them to within an inch of consciousness, I would walk out, sorry, whether or not you feel that is within the realm of "typical" is one thing but personally I would not feel comfortable playing out those scenarios at all.

In fact as a therapist who has worked with countless sexual abuse victims, fantasy about rape is often associated with a history of sexual abuse. The victim may attempt to recreate the event or re-live it in some way as an attempt to make sense of it or negatively cope with the abuse. So, if I was in the scenario you presented, having a girlfriend who wanted to act out a rape fantasy, my first thought would be that she had been sexually abused in the past.

mkrishnan
Feb 9, 2010, 02:57 PM
I've never seen a study on it or a survey, but in my personal experience no woman fantasizes about being raped.

FWIW...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19085605

Fantasies are pretty widely reported; wanting to take it to the level of simulated reality is pretty rare, AFAIK.

mscriv
Feb 9, 2010, 03:01 PM
^^^ Thanks for the link. I'll have to read up on that paper.

MarkCollette
Feb 9, 2010, 06:53 PM
I'm afraid I would have to disagree with the word "typical" in this instance. I've never seen a study on it or a survey, but in my personal experience no woman fantasizes about being raped. They may fantasize about being with a stranger or like anonymous rough sex, but I've never known a woman who really wants intimacy to be paired with genuine fear, a real threat of violence, and the possibility of death. Don't believe everything you see on TV or in pornography. Male fantasy and female fantasy are very different.

You do know what the word fantasy means, right? Of all the women who've ever confided in me that they've fantasized about it, zero of them ever wanted it to actually happen. And I have no idea if any of them even role played it.


Thanks. I'm not talking about playful bondage type situations here, or liking it rough. This is a whole other level.

If my partner wanted me to hold them at knifepoint or gunpoint or choke them to within an inch of consciousness, I would walk out, sorry, whether or not you feel that is within the realm of "typical" is one thing but personally I would not feel comfortable playing out those scenarios at all.

Again, I wasn't talking about role playing. But, the people I've known who've talked about role playing always talked about being safe and respectful. It sounded a far cry from "within an inch of consciousness".

mscriv
Feb 9, 2010, 11:31 PM
You do know what the word fantasy means, right? Of all the women who've ever confided in me that they've fantasized about it, zero of them ever wanted it to actually happen. And I have no idea if any of them even role played it.

Thanks for clarifying. I interpreted your use of the word fantasy to mean an active fantasy that they enjoyed and wanted to possibly make a reality. It sounds as if you are using fantasy in the sense of "having thought about..." If that is truly what you mean then I misunderstood. I think all of us occasionally daydream about the possibility of horrific things. These fears sometimes creep into our thoughts. Although I wouldn't characterize that as fantasy in the sense of what this thread is talking about, I think I better understand what you mean now.

MarkCollette
Feb 10, 2010, 01:43 AM
Thanks for clarifying. I interpreted your use of the word fantasy to mean an active fantasy that they enjoyed and wanted to possibly make a reality. It sounds as if you are using fantasy in the sense of "having thought about..." If that is truly what you mean then I misunderstood. I think all of us occasionally daydream about the possibility of horrific things. These fears sometimes creep into our thoughts. Although I wouldn't characterize that as fantasy in the sense of what this thread is talking about, I think I better understand what you mean now.

Well it probably all started with me misunderstanding exactly what notjustjay meant, and then not being as descriptive as possible in my own comments :)

The interesting thing about that article that mkrishnan posted, is it shows that women don't just think about the possibility, but actually are aroused by it. And from my own discussions with women, it can be a part of masturbation, or something they think about while engaging in sex, to get off.

mkrishnan
Feb 10, 2010, 06:43 AM
The interesting thing about that article that mkrishnan posted, is it shows that women don't just think about the possibility, but actually are aroused by it. And from my own discussions with women, it can be a part of masturbation, or something they think about while engaging in sex, to get off.

Yes, I think that usually, when people talk about a "rape fantasy," they mean that the person having the fantasy finds the fantasy arousing, but not at all necessarily that they have any desire to turn the fantasy into a reality. I don't have that much personal insight into rape fantasies, but the idea that they're common and "normal" is longstanding enough that the topic is usually discussed in undergraduate sexuality textbooks.

The traditional views, I think, say it's something like the idea that the person has an irresistable sexuality, that the fantasy is sort of like being a siren, whose body cannot be resisted or avoided. But I'm not sure.

Outside of rape fantasies, people have all kinds of fantasies that they might not want to become real. In the S&M world, it's really common to have fantasies, say, of becoming a sex slave, having your entire life reduced to just being sexually available for others. I don't think the vast majority of people, even among those who are into S&M, have any real desire to give up their normal lives and be sex slaves. But the fantasies are nonetheless nice.

mscriv
Feb 10, 2010, 02:28 PM
FWIW...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19085605

Fantasies are pretty widely reported; wanting to take it to the level of simulated reality is pretty rare, AFAIK.

I read through this study here (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_1_46/ai_n32406391/?tag=content;col1) and it is well done and quite informative. However, for the purpose of what is being discussed in this thread I think this statement from their introduction is of importance.

Taken as a whole, current literature on the content of rape fantasies is incomplete and contradictory. There is agreement that mental imagery of realistic violent rape is almost never an erotic experience (Bond & Mosher, 1986) and that nearly all women have no interest in acting out a realistic fantasy of rape (Gold et al., 1991). Beyond that, there is considerable disagreement.

The study does a good job at further clarifying rape fantasies into three general categories to better understand the nature of the fantasy and the inherent feelings of the individual about having the fantasy. It's a good read for any and all who might be interested. Keep in mind that it's a graduate level study and thus contains some statistical analysis that might be hard to understand. Thanks again for mentioning it mkrishnan.

mkrishnan
Feb 10, 2010, 02:38 PM
I read through this study here (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_1_46/ai_n32406391/?tag=content;col1) [...]

Cool -- I don't think I have digital access to that journal here (since I'm at a hospital, and we focus pretty tightly on rehabilitation), so I'm glad there's a resource to get it. It looked from the related articles in the Pubmed link that the authors of that study had also done a review or meta-analysis on the same topic, mostly concentrating on just the prevalence.

I think you bring up a good point about fantasies in general -- people fantasize about the "good" parts of just about anything. Lots of people fantasize about eating a really good slice of cake, but not too many people fantasize about getting on the scale the next day and seeing the consequences. People fantasize about being tied up, but they don't fantasize about rope burns or leg cramps. I might fantasize about making love to someone I'm really attracted to, but I'm not going to fantasize about them being a pain in the ass, arguing about how we organize our refrigerator. :p In the same way, people who fantasize about rape are probably not fantasizing about being brutalized per se, let alone, of course, not actually wanting to be brutalized.

notjustjay
Feb 10, 2010, 05:01 PM
In the same way, people who fantasize about rape are probably not fantasizing about being brutalized per se, let alone, of course, not actually wanting to be brutalized.

I guess this is what I was trying to say earlier. Suppose I'm reading that ad on Craigslist. I would be very disturbed to see an ad indicating that someone wanted to turn such fantasies into a reality -- and wanted the services of a complete stranger to do so. I'm just as disturbed to think that someone out there did take it at face value and said "Gee, sounds like fun, sign me up!" without wondering if this was legitmate, versus a trap, or someone who was just bonkers. :)