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View Full Version : DJ Mixes Break Free iPod


Llyr
Aug 27, 2004, 06:38 AM
Does anyone out there know how to listen to a DJ's fully mixed album on an iPod?!

The CD original obviously plays as intended.

On iPod via iTunes is introduced a brief pause between tracks - meaning the intended effect of a mixed transition between tracks is ruined.

Anyone in deep listening to Sasha's awsome new album 'Involver' will understand this is a delicate matter!

Cheers

wPod
Aug 27, 2004, 12:28 PM
is the break up in on your iPod or does it do the same thing in iTunes? if it plays the same in iTunes you can edit the song down (clip off the last second of silence that was imported) and they should play consecutivly. or does it only happen on the iPod?

kgarner
Aug 27, 2004, 02:01 PM
Not entirely sure on this, but I think you can set the cross fade feature in iTunes to eliminate the gap and then (and here's where I am not sure) those settings are synced to the iPod (maybe?).

wPod
Aug 27, 2004, 03:29 PM
Not entirely sure on this, but I think you can set the cross fade feature in iTunes to eliminate the gap and then (and here's where I am not sure) those settings are synced to the iPod (maybe?).

in iTunes>prefs>audio there is a crossfade check box. unchecking it will jump directly from one song to the next, cross fade will blend one song into another. i think you want to jump from one song to the next, like the CD, otherwise you will be fading the end of one song with the begining of the next, and the only way that will sound good is if you are the DJ that created the CD and did the crossfading manually (which im sure they did during some part of production) but i really dont know if this effects the playback on the iPod

Spizzo
Aug 27, 2004, 06:36 PM
I had this same problem, never figured it out. My mix cd (that i created) would play fine in iTunes, but once you copy it in, it splits up the tracks. IF you leave the crossfade on, it fades out the end of each song in the mix. If you turn off the x-fade, you get a pause.... :mad:

JeDiBoYTJ
Aug 28, 2004, 11:59 AM
try ripping it as one whole track, unless you realllly need it to be in separate tracks.

dgf
Jan 6, 2005, 03:36 PM
1. No-one has been able to suggest to me a way to eliminate the break which iTunes playback inserts between tracks on a DJ mix CD. Like an uninvited guest, it just happens. Crossfading is a silly gimmick with no real use and certainly doesn't address the problem. Choosing a time between tracks of 'zero' doesn't fix the problem either. If you can't burn the mixed CD as ONE track then you are out of luck.

2. My iMac pauses occasionally, during playback - sound stops, as if taking a breath, the harddrive does something or other (?), then playback resumes. Asking the harddrive to NEVER shut down (in performance settings) does not correct the problem. Extremely annoying!

3. Loss of function in iTunes vs the older Apple CD player: you can't 'rewind' thru a track and continue rewinding into the previous track. You can only rewind within the track you are playing and then must click on the previous track to rewind thru it. Annoying if what you are doing is studying how, on a mix CD, the artist skilfully blended track A into track B.

Please fix these problems, guys!

hob
Jan 7, 2005, 07:18 PM
I can't remember if it's JUST iTunes that's affected by this but the problem you're experiencing is due to the fact that instead of the program just reading one cd, and continuing track to track, it's having to read several files. It gets to the end of track 1, and then has to find and load up the track 2 mp3 file. Yes some kind of buffer would seem to be in order.

The ways to get around this have already been mentioned but for the record:

1. Cross-fade (no good for iPod users)
2. Rip the cd, or the tracks that are mixed together, into one mp3/aac (whatever) file. When you insert the cd, highlight the tracks you want joined, then go to advanced->join CD tracks. I do this with some cd's, such as Green Day's American Idiot, and Muse's last album... but most of the time I just put up with it!!

Hope this helps :)

Hob

mrgreen4242
Jan 7, 2005, 09:31 PM
I am assuming that you are ripping the tracks as MP3 format files. The pause between tracks is a result of MP3's file structure, and it is impossible to have gapless playback with MP3's. It's not just iTune/iPods, no MP3 device or player will do gapless MP3 playback (if they do, it's a crossfading type trick). You should try re-ripping the CD in AAC or another format that supports gapless playback.

Rob

khammack
Jan 8, 2005, 01:05 AM
The pause between tracks is a result of MP3's file structure, and it is impossible to have gapless playback with MP3's.

I completely disagree with this. As a programmer, I don't see why you can't open the next mp3 file ahead of time so that it's ready to go when the current one ends. Then you'd have a seamless transition. In fact I know that one mp3 player I've used in the past did pull this off somehow (just can't remember which one...grr...).

Personally, I use linux (though I'm scrimping for my first Mac) but many of the mp3 players on linux have this same trouble. I like digweed, and his work is one continuous blend of music best heard with absolutely no gaps between the tracks. Unfortunately I don't have a music player on linux that does this properly.

I was really hoping that iTunes had been more carefully considered than this. After all, Apple is supposed to be the pinnacle of attention to detail, isn't it?

This is such a simple trick, and I'm sure there are other ways to get mp3 files to play back to back. What I can't believe is that the authors of iTunes, Juk (linux), Rhythmbox (linux) and others haven't figured it out yet. They must not listen to trance.

In linux land we file bug reports that the software author can read. I wonder if apple has some sort of customer feedback like this that you can use to communicate this problem back to the authors of iTunes?

-kev

mrgreen4242
Jan 8, 2005, 11:33 AM
Sorry you disagree, but it's a fact of life... the MP3 format does not support gapless playback inherently, so to speak. Here is a link to an aticle discuss the problem and the solutions to it. http://www.pretentiousname.com/mp3players/ and also a quote from the article, in case someone doesn't want to read it: The MP3 format has inherent flaws which, unless worked around, mean it cannot move seamlessly from one track to the next without adding silence or at least a click. The article then goes into some formats that do support gapless playback (AAC and OGG, for example), and some of the 'hacks' and tricks that players COULD use (but most, including the iPod) to fix the MP3 gapless playback issues.

Since the iPod can't play OGG files (hoping for this in the next revision, like all SLashdotters ;-) ), AAC is the best choice for gapless playback on the iPod.

Rob

EDIT: The author of that article mentions that he is unsure of wether AAC supports gapless playback. I THOUGHT that it did, but I could be wrong, so using AAC may or may not fix this ploblem. I'll try to look into it further what formats support gapless playback that are also supported by the iPod. He goes om further to say that the iPod doesn't support any gapless playback, so it may be that my search for an answer will be in vein.

nudel
Jan 10, 2005, 06:30 PM
Sorry you disagree, but it's a fact of life... the MP3 format does not support gapless playback inherently, so to speak.
I should perhaps re-word my article. :) Gapless MP3 playback is definitely possible but there are things that need to be worked around to do it.

Winamp (with proper plugins and configuration), Foobar2000 (out of the box) and the Rio Karma portable DAP all do gapless MP3 playback perfectly.

Originally the only way to do gapless MP3 playback was a bit of a hack: Detect a sudden drop to silence at the end of a file in the very last MP3 frame and remove it. (It is a hack but, when done properly it works quite well and it's a good fallback for files made with old MP3 encoders.)

But if you encode a file with newer versions of the LAME encoder then it writes a tag which says exactly how long the track is and does pretty much the same thing that Ogg Vorbis and the other "gapless formats" I mention do. So, in that sense, MP3 is as gapless as any other format, provided the right encoder is used. (LAME is open-source and used pretty much everywhere, at least in freeware/shareware programs, but also in many commercial programs.)

In fact, having tried Ogg Vorbis for a while I've now gone back to MP3 on my Karma (I use lossless FLAC on my PC, but that doesn't fit much music on a portbale :)). OV uses a lot more CPU power which results in slightly less battery life. More importantly, there's a lot of precalculation to be done before an OV file can start playing and this sometimes trips up the Karma's gapless playback while it's always perfect with MP3 files. The Karma also responds faster when you press play or skip a track with MP3. In my opinion, the Ogg Vorbis format and, in particular, decoder are not optimized as well as MP3 for portable devices. That isn't surprising, given the age and funding behind MP3, but it's still true. At the same time, OV works on portables but, for me, it doesn't give anything to outweigh the small disadvantages.

Of course, details like the format and the encoder don't matter at all when the playback software/hardware inserts almost a second of additional silence, just because it's thinking about what to do next *after* the track has finished, rather than before it finishes so that the next track is ready in time. That's the problem that the iPod still has to this day, which is a real shame.

There are now lots of players which are "almost gapless" in that they either get ready in advance or move from one track to the next quick enough that the gaps they add are very small. For many this is good enough, for some it isn't, but it's a personal thing. Either way, there are still very few players which will do true gapless like the Karma. The new Sony players will do it, but only if you rip and encode your music in a certain way; at least that's the way it seems so far.

Hope this is useful information! I just came here since I was looking through the referral logs to my site (which I don't do often, but is quite interesting when I do. :)).