Any new news on Gulftown and/or Mac Pro?

[mds]

Any updates on when Gulftowns are being released? Dying to buy a MP, but don't want to get an 09 with the 2010 on the brink of release...do we have anything more specific than "sometime in Q2?"

Thanks!

Mike

[xgman]

Any updates on when Gulftowns are being released? Dying to buy a MP, but don't want to get an 09 with the 2010 on the brink of release...do we have anything more specific than "sometime in Q2?"

Thanks!

Mike

Hardmac was suggesting late March I think.

http://www.hardmac.com/news/2010/02/11/intel-to-release-only-limited-amount-of-hexa-core-xeon

[dazey]

I just picked up a 2008 Mac pro today so I am expecting the updates on Tuesday!

[mds]

Hardmac was suggesting late March I think.

http://www.hardmac.com/news/2010/02/11/intel-to-release-only-limited-amount-of-hexa-core-xeon

Thanks...

Wonder what Apple will do at the $2500 entry price point...will they use a single 6 core? Hope so...

[Knara]

Any updates on when Gulftowns are being released? Dying to buy a MP, but don't want to get an 09 with the 2010 on the brink of release...do we have anything more specific than "sometime in Q2?"

Thanks!

Mike

Out of curiosity, why? Seems like the last major outstanding MP bug was fixed today, and it's highly unlikely the next version will be bug-free. Do you need a single-die 6-core CPU for some reason?

Really not trolling.

[chmilar]

An update, one year after the release of the '09's is likely to provide a lower price for equivalent performance and/or higher performance at the existing price points. So if you buy an '09 now, you might be depressed when you see that a short wait would have rewarded you with money saved, or higher performance.

Hopefully, the CTO options will also change, especially the graphics adapters, so that the base adapter will be better than the 120GT card, and a Radeon 5xxx will be available. Maybe an SSD option, too. The truly hopeful are predicting USB3.0.

In my opinion, all of these things are worth waiting for a few weeks.

[Phantom Gremlin]

In my opinion, all of these things are worth waiting for a few weeks.

After the new products are announced, there may be good deals available on the current stuff (new, not refurbished). E.g. an Apple store will probably be willing to knock a few hundred $$$s off the price just so they can clear out the old merchandise. They hate to have old stock around.

I can't imagine that the 6-core boxes will be cheaper than today's 4-core boxes. I'm willing to wager 1000 quatloos that the new stuff will be more expensive.

[Knara]

An update, one year after the release of the '09's is likely to provide a lower price for equivalent performance and/or higher performance at the existing price points. So if you buy an '09 now, you might be depressed when you see that a short wait would have rewarded you with money saved, or higher performance.

Maybe, but at the lower end, not so much. Most people who would end up with a "starter" MP barely benefit from a 4-core system, much less a 6-core one.

Hopefully, the CTO options will also change, especially the graphics adapters, so that the base adapter will be better than the 120GT card, and a Radeon 5xxx will be available. Maybe an SSD option, too. The truly hopeful are predicting USB3.0.

Sure, but all things that could be replaced in a current MP. Don't understand the hype about USB3.0, personally. Anything worth getting at the speeds they promise are already available with a firewire interface.

In my opinion, all of these things are worth waiting for a few weeks.

A common reasoning, I dunno how much water it holds, though.

[mds]

Maybe, but at the lower end, not so much. Most people who would end up with a "starter" MP barely benefit from a 4-core system, much less a 6-core one.



How so?

Since Apple doesn't really upgrade their machines over the year, you really overpay for year old technology. I'd rather wait out the new one and least get my money's worth. Early benchmarks show decent performance increases, so I'd rather get more performance per dollar.

[Techhie]

How so?

Since Apple doesn't really upgrade their machines over the year, you really overpay for year old technology. I'd rather wait out the new one and least get my money's worth. Early benchmarks show decent performance increases, so I'd rather get more performance per dollar.

I hate to tell you, but you will hardly be "getting your money's worth" buying any recent base MP. Both the future profit margin and Apple's intentions have been blatantly exposed with the '09 models, and few think the '10's will be any different. Not only are they taking advantage of people in the hardware department, but the addition of more cores is only poised to boost performance in the rare multi-threaded application, while mostly everything else benefits from clock increases.

[mds]

I hate to tell you, but you will hardly be "getting your money's worth" buying any recent base MP. Both the future profit margin and Apple's intentions have been blatantly exposed with the '09 models, and few think the '10's will be any different. Not only are they taking advantage of people in the hardware department, but the addition of more cores is only poised to boost performance in the rare multi-threaded application, while mostly everything else benefits from clock increases.

I understand what you're saying, but IF they're both the same price, I'd rather overpay for the new one. :-)

[Techhie]

I understand what you're saying, but IF they're both the same price, I'd rather overpay for the new one. :-)

You got me there :rolleyes:

If you do decide to go for a new one when they come out, the least you can do is save a few hundred bucks by going the refurb route.

[mds]

You got me there :rolleyes:

If you do decide to go for a new one when they come out, the least you can do is save a few hundred bucks by going the refurb route.

Yeah, I'm considering that. Depends how much cheaper it is...I was going to buy an 08, but those are still $2k+. I'd rather pay $2500 for a new one...this is a work machine, so I just want the most power I can get for around $2500.

[Techhie]

Yeah, I'm considering that. Depends how much cheaper it is...I was going to buy an 08, but those are still $2k+. I'd rather pay $2500 for a new one...this is a work machine, so I just want the most power I can get for around $2500.

I picked up a 2.8 GHz '08 octad yesterday for $1,800, pretty good deal. I suspect they will come down a bit further when the new models are introduced, and benchmarks paint a promising picture as far as performance vs '09 models.

[mds]

I might take that if I could get it, but all I see are $1700-$2000 2006 MPs and $3500+ 08's. I'd rather pay $2500 for the 6 core...

[Cathode]

I might take that if I could get it, but all I see are $1700-$2000 2006 MPs and $3500+ 08's. I'd rather pay $2500 for the 6 core...

Not going to happen. The hexacore (only available at 3.33Ghz at first) is going to be high end, probably a $1000 BTO option. If we're lucky we'll see some prices drop for the low end quads though. Other than the new processor I don't think there will be any dramatic changes.

No bluray, no USB3, no SSD boot drive (like the Xserve's). I'm just hoping we will at least see a ATI 5800 series graphics card.

[mds]

Yeah, I guess thats a possibility. If so, I'd like the see it first before pulling the trigger...

[Knara]

How so?

Since Apple doesn't really upgrade their machines over the year, you really overpay for year old technology. I'd rather wait out the new one and least get my money's worth. Early benchmarks show decent performance increases, so I'd rather get more performance per dollar.

The vast majority of users aiming for the low end of the MP line don't use applications that will utilize all 4 cores for any significant amount of time, much less 6.

Yeah, there may be performance increases, but if you look close, they're for "parallel tasks". Not a lot of non-scientific applications use parallel operations, so you end up with 4 under-utilized cores.

There's some benefit to be considered if the rumored i9's run at 50% of the power usage of the current Xeons, but the benchmarked additional performance increase in the 50% realm just won't apply to the entry level user.

For the folks building render farms and other such clustering workstation setups, it'll be a good deal, however. They won't be doing that with a $2400 machine, though.

[HighSeasCaptain]

Out of curiosity, why? Seems like the last major outstanding MP bug was fixed today, and it's highly unlikely the next version will be bug-free. Do you need a single-die 6-core CPU for some reason?

Really not trolling.

I, for one, will be utilizing 12 cores. Although the workflow ain't bad on an MBP with 4K Red, it's not nearly as easy, fluid, and fast, and it's difficult to sell myself as an editor with my own post options with only a 15" MPB. I need as many cores and gigabytes of RAM that a machine can offer, because Red is serious heavy lifting.

[VirtualRain]

I think there's two routes they could go with the 2010...

1. Simply add the 6-Core processor as a BTO option to the existing lineup... (both quads and octos) effectively pricing it out of the stratosphere.

2. Revamp the entire lineup so that the base model is a $2500 6-Core and the dual proc is a 12-core beast.

Obviously the first option serves a broader range of performance/price ratios with a higher margin top-of-the-line offering while the second one provides the most value to the customer. I don't think it's difficult to bet on what Apple will do. :rolleyes:

I still dream that they might offer a firmware update to 2009 Mac Pro's that will allow us to upgrade the processors ourselves (I can dream!). :eek:

[Umbongo]

I think there's two routes they could go with the 2010...

1. Simply add the 6-Core processor as a BTO option to the existing lineup... (both quads and octos) effectively pricing it out of the stratosphere.

2. Revamp the entire lineup so that the base model is a $2500 6-Core and the dual proc is a 12-core beast.

Obviously the first option serves a broader range of performance/price ratios with a higher margin top-of-the-line offering while the second one provides the most value to the customer. I don't think it's difficult to bet on what Apple will do. :rolleyes:

I still dream that they might offer a firmware update to 2009 Mac Pro's that will allow us to upgrade the processors ourselves (I can dream!). :eek:

1. doesn't work exactly because of the options available.

On the single socket side the Xeon W3590 will become redundant as it has the same price of the 32nm 6 core version coming. The 2.66GHz W3520 (and Core-i7 920) is set to be replaced by a 2.8GHz version and the 2.93GHz option has already been replaced by a 3.2GHz version. On the dual socket side, the leaked processor details indicate that Xeon 5600s will replace 5500s. So just on future supply we should see small changes.

They could of course move back to dual socket systems as standard, especially now the iMac is more powerful.

[parakiet]

this has ben posted here before and it makes some sense:
a) a dual quad (8 core)
b) a dual hexa (12 core)

that keeps the mac pro away from the imac..
perhaps with a higher starting price

it seems logic, but dus apple care? i don't see apple as something logic :p


i'd still go for a new mac pro even if it's quad core
a) where i life their aren't refurbs
b) almost no second hand 2008s which i can grab&test before making the deal
c) come on, paying the full (ok slightly less now) price now for a 2009MP ?!?!?

[mds]

The vast majority of users aiming for the low end of the MP line don't use applications that will utilize all 4 cores for any significant amount of time, much less 6.

Yeah, there may be performance increases, but if you look close, they're for "parallel tasks". Not a lot of non-scientific applications use parallel operations, so you end up with 4 under-utilized cores.

There's some benefit to be considered if the rumored i9's run at 50% of the power usage of the current Xeons, but the benchmarked additional performance increase in the 50% realm just won't apply to the entry level user.

For the folks building render farms and other such clustering workstation setups, it'll be a good deal, however. They won't be doing that with a $2400 machine, though.

Not sure your equating of the entry level machine to entry level user is accurate. I'll use every drop of those processors, but my budget allows for a $2500 machine, simple as that. If I bought the dual cpu machine I'd use all of that too, but I don't want to spend that kind of money.

[mds]

I think there's two routes they could go with the 2010...

1. Simply add the 6-Core processor as a BTO option to the existing lineup... (both quads and octos) effectively pricing it out of the stratosphere.

2. Revamp the entire lineup so that the base model is a $2500 6-Core and the dual proc is a 12-core beast.

Obviously the first option serves a broader range of performance/price ratios with a higher margin top-of-the-line offering while the second one provides the most value to the customer. I don't think it's difficult to bet on what Apple will do. :rolleyes:

I still dream that they might offer a firmware update to 2009 Mac Pro's that will allow us to upgrade the processors ourselves (I can dream!). :eek:

I'll be kinda bummed if all they do is add a top of the line BTO option. I'd at least like a speed bump on the $2500 price point...

[mds]

this has ben posted here before and it makes some sense:
a) a dual quad (8 core)
b) a dual hexa (12 core)

that keeps the mac pro away from the imac..
perhaps with a higher starting price

it seems logic, but dus apple care? i don't see apple as something logic :p


i'd still go for a new mac pro even if it's quad core
a) where i life their aren't refurbs
b) almost no second hand 2008s which i can grab&test before making the deal
c) come on, paying the full (ok slightly less now) price now for a 2009MP ?!?!?

I'd be happy if the $2500 machine got me an 8 core dual. Certainly a better deal than the current 09 machine...

[nanofrog]

I'll be kinda bummed if all they do is add a top of the line BTO option. I'd at least like a speed bump on the $2500 price point...
Possible in a Quad, if Intel lowers the quantity pricing (i.e. speed bump but the same or less than the current W3520 used in the base).

I'd be happy if the $2500 machine got me an 8 core dual. Certainly a better deal than the current 09 machine...
It may be technically possible (current base E5520's are cheaper than the E5462's used in '08's base Octad), but Apple's wants higher margins than that price would provide. The pricing on the next chips won't be cheaper either, as there's at least a die shrink that needs to be paid for (R&D + facility upgrades).

So it's not going to happen. :(

[Umbongo]

Possible in a Quad, if Intel lowers the quantity pricing (i.e. speed bump but the same or less than the current W3520 used in the base).


It may be technically possible (current base E5520's are cheaper than the E5462's used in '08's base Octad), but Apple's wants higher margins than that price would provide. The pricing on the next chips won't be cheaper either, as there's at least a die shrink that needs to be paid for (R&D + facility upgrades).

So it's not going to happen. :(

It is possible the pricing won't go up and the top price will remain $1,600 for the 3.33GHz 6-core X5680. The single socket ones aren't going up (or so everyone says) despite their 50%+ possible performance increase. Intel haven't been above $1,600 on a DP processor yet I don't think so it'll certainly be interesting to see how it pans out.

It is possible prices could be of this level:

Xeon X5680 3333 MHz $1,600
Xeon X5670 2933 MHz $1,386
Xeon X5660 2800 MHz $1,172
Xeon X5650 2667 MHz $958
Xeon L5640 2267 MHz $530

Xeon W5677 3467 MHz $958
Xeon X5667 3067 MHz $744
Xeon E5640 2667 MHz $530
Xeon E5630 2533 MHz $373
Xeon E5620 2400 MHz $266

Xeon W3680 3333 MHz $999
Xeon W3565 3200 MHz $562
Xeon W3530 2800 MHz $284


Apple could start with an 8 core 2400MHz system with 3GB of memory for $2,799 and have a 50% margin. Or if the reason for changing it up wasn't purely "huge margins!!!" as I've theorised before, maybe we'll get an 8 core 2.66GHz for such a price now that the iMac doesn't look like 3 year old technology.

[mds]

It is possible the pricing won't go up and the top price will remain $1,600 for the 3.33GHz 6-core X5680. The single socket ones aren't going up (or so everyone says) despite their 50%+ possible performance increase. Intel haven't been above $1,600 on a DP processor yet I don't think so it'll certainly be interesting to see how it pans out.

It is possible prices could be of this level:

Xeon X5680 3333 MHz $1,600
Xeon X5670 2933 MHz $1,386
Xeon X5660 2800 MHz $1,172
Xeon X5650 2667 MHz $958
Xeon L5640 2267 MHz $530

Xeon W5677 3467 MHz $958
Xeon X5667 3067 MHz $744
Xeon E5640 2667 MHz $530
Xeon E5630 2533 MHz $373
Xeon E5620 2400 MHz $266

Xeon W3680 3333 MHz $999
Xeon W3565 3200 MHz $562
Xeon W3530 2800 MHz $284


Apple could start with an 8 core 2400MHz system with 3GB of memory for $2,799 and have a 50% margin. Or if the reason for changing it up wasn't purely "huge margins!!!" as I've theorised before, maybe we'll get an 8 core 2.66GHz for such a price now that the iMac doesn't look like 3 year old technology.

Wow, thats a lot of processors! Can anyone break down the differences for me or point me to something?

Thanks!

[Umbongo]

Wow, thats a lot of processors! Can anyone break down the differences for me or point me to something?

Thanks!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_future_Intel_microprocessors#Xeon_DP.2C_Quad-Core

[nanofrog]

It is possible the pricing won't go up and the top price will remain $1,600 for the 3.33GHz 6-core X5680. The single socket ones aren't going up (or so everyone says) despite their 50%+ possible performance increase. Intel haven't been above $1,600 on a DP processor yet I don't think so it'll certainly be interesting to see how it pans out.
I also think the top end DP part will hold at $1600. As per the 50% performance, IIRC, that was performed on a hex core part (i7-980X), and are the multi-threaded results of course.

I wouldn't expect that for most situations though, as most software is still single threaded, and clock speeds will rule here. And though there may be an increase in clock speeds, they aren't rising enough to generate a 50% increase.

It is possible prices could be of this level:

Xeon X5680 3333 MHz $1,600
Xeon X5670 2933 MHz $1,386
Xeon X5660 2800 MHz $1,172
Xeon X5650 2667 MHz $958
Xeon L5640 2267 MHz $530

Xeon W5677 3467 MHz $958
Xeon X5667 3067 MHz $744
Xeon E5640 2667 MHz $530
Xeon E5630 2533 MHz $373
Xeon E5620 2400 MHz $266

Xeon W3680 3333 MHz $999
Xeon W3565 3200 MHz $562
Xeon W3530 2800 MHz $284

I keep hoping they'll release the quantity pricing shortly myself, but what you've listed here seems possible.

Apple could start with an 8 core 2400MHz system with 3GB of memory for $2,799 and have a 50% margin. Or if the reason for changing it up wasn't purely "huge margins!!!" as I've theorised before, maybe we'll get an 8 core 2.66GHz for such a price now that the iMac doesn't look like 3 year old technology.
Hard to say without actual pricing to go with the P/N's, but I don't see 2010 MSRP's dropping below the current levels, particularly for the base models. It would be nice though, and help sales IMO.

But they'd have to do a major price drop on the remaining '09 stocks to move those out though if lower prices did happen with the 2010 models. ;) Nice for users, but I don't see it happening. But maybe I'm just too jaded these days... :rolleyes: Nah. :D :p