There is a problem in the marketplace.... [Archive]

Kwyjibo

Aug 28, 2004, 08:07 PM

I am mixed on this issue

I agree when the seller is well established poster here and have some credibility around the forums, because they have earned the right to have a little respect around here.

I disagree when the person is new, like in the thread you posted. If the only two posts a person has are in the FST forum then they should be able to address some scrutiny if they are selling an item. This board is not immune to con artists .... all you need is an email and unbanned IP to list an item.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=29493

is a famous one that comes to mind. Sadly people are not generally honest. I do not find it unreasonable to challenge a seller's integrity when they do not have a reputation and their offer seems a bit extreme (high or low). A ban is very extreme, and what if the seller is offering an illegal product or ilelgal feature like a ADOBE CS loaded up on a computer and no discs.

King Cobra

Aug 28, 2004, 08:09 PM

Interesting... for a change I can't figure out whether or not I should agree with someone's (medea's) rant. On one hand, medea brings up the subject matter of posters expressing disinterest in the item being sold, then they go off-topic in a back and forth battle of sarcasm (trolling, I suppose) with respect to the original price of the machine, which, in turn, adds no productivity to the attempt to sell the product. In fact, the only thing that might help the seller get the product sold there out of the back and forth battles is the fact that the seller's thread keeps going to the beginning of the marketplace section. Yet on the other hand, the back and forth battle was done with well understood comical intent, the series of sarcasmic posts didn't seem to offset anyone in the thread, except for the seller, and the original seller received enough pageviews from those interested in the product to be able to sell the product.

Now, to me, I'll vent about maybe 5% of some of the anti-productive posting styles (anti-productive in the sense that the discussion digresses from the original topic). I can see why the marketplace trolling/sarcasm is a problem. But the problem is really the seller's, not yours or anyone else's, because the seller has to keep revisiting the read for business purposes more so than anyone else has to revisit the thread. Also, the seller's tone went from being eager to sell the product to being frustrated. Upon looking over that thread, the seller became a little upset using all caps to stress that the software sold with the product followed EULA rules. I am certain that the cause of this was from the sarcasm from the other posters, as they expressed no support for the sale.

So my take on this is: Although I enjoyed the little comical skit in that thread, it didn't benefit the seller's mood. So then I agree with the original rant for this thread, and suggest that all comical/sarcastic/otherwise trolling skits stay out of the marketplace section of the forums.

seamuskrat

Aug 28, 2004, 08:36 PM

I am not convinced the post was legit. The phone number on an open forum, the copious amount of software with no declaration of legal license, and the fact it was a newbie with few posts under their belt. Maybe it was just an etiquette faux pas and it was legit. But I can see why some would greet with with skepticism.
That said, the juvenile banter about it was kinda embarrassing for the forums...

I myself have found the forums iffy for transactions. I have tried to sell my Pismo 500 and found a lot of people lowballed my offers via PM. I ended up selling it for more than I would have taken here on Ebay (but still 300 more than my best offer).

In general, people, especially regulars could show more civility to one another and newbies. But I still think that poster was fishy.

medea

Aug 28, 2004, 08:50 PM

I agree that the poster's sales pitch was quite shady. I was just using that post as an example because of the magnitude of replies it spawned.
The juvenile banter is exactly what I am talking about. If the marketplace can't be used properly it should just be removed rather than act as a festering breeding ground of cretinism.

seamuskrat

Aug 28, 2004, 09:12 PM

How can one not agree with a sentence using the word cretinism.:)

I agree that the poster's sales pitch was quite shady. I was just using that post as an example because of the magnitude of replies it spawned.
The juvenile banter is exactly what I am talking about. If the marketplace can't be used properly it should just be removed rather than act as a festering breeding ground of cretinism. :)

Abstract

Aug 28, 2004, 09:39 PM

I actually looked up the word "cretinism". :p I thought it was as genuine a word as "cromulent", if you know what I'm saying. ;)

Sadly people are not generally honest. I do not find it unreasonable to challenge a seller's integrity when they do not have a reputation and their offer seems a bit extreme (high or low).

I don't believe that people are generally dishonest. Some people aren't going to post on a Mac board, or any computer board, and yet want to sell their computer. Maybe they tried on eBay and weren't getting any bids. Personally, I don't have an eBay account, or feedback, so I'd try to sell it here first. Now I'd think twice.

And nobody there was "challenging the seller's integrity". There wasn't much question of the price being too good to be true or something. It was just a bunch of "cromulent" idiots acting cromulent idiots. I hate going into a Marketplace to defend someone.....it isn't even the forum for it.

Medea's right. Its actually what I was thinking, but I didn't bother putting up an entire thread about it. ;) If the Marketplace is going to be taken as a joke, then we shouldn't have one.

I am not convinced the post was legit. The phone number on an open forum, the copious amount of software with no declaration of legal license, and the fact it was a newbie with few posts under their belt. Maybe it was just an etiquette faux pas and it was legit. But I can see why some would greet with with skepticism.
That said, the juvenile banter about it was kinda embarrassing for the forums...

I think the sale was legit. Did you read the entire thread?

cslewis

Aug 28, 2004, 09:39 PM

I know i'm guilty of trolling a bit in the past... :( These things just get to me. I do think that he should have known to keep the thread in the marketplace section. Is it possible for a moderator to move a thread to the marketplace? That would come in handy for when these things occur.

cslewis

Aug 28, 2004, 09:43 PM

If the marketplace can't be used properly it should just be removed rather than act as a festering breeding ground of cretinism.

But you must remember that it wasn't originally posted in the marketplace. I think people were slightly upset that it was there, and not where it belonged.

Doctor Q

Aug 28, 2004, 10:58 PM

Abstract

Aug 29, 2004, 03:16 AM

Great. Nice job guys.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1010353#post1010353

For everyone's peace of mind. I did sell it. I got the 12 inch 1.33 and $450 cash. Turns out some of my media was lost during the last few moves and setup of my office, but thank god I'm a winDOZE tech. Every cd gets imaged on my server along with a sticky note of the serial. Multiple copies, no worries I say!

Anyway the buyer was local. Showed him the laptop and the software I did have and he almost died that I still had it. Couldnt pay fast enough. So I got what I wanted, and so did he.

I think the point that someone was trying to make is... you guys keep saying " I can get it cheaper on an edu discount." Well, the point we were trying to make was that not all of you QUALIFY for the discount. Apple does make you QUALIFY for it. That means that by definition, someone will NOT qualify for it. Not everyone is a student or homeschooling their kids. So, either way, that argument doesnt really count. I cant believe the ....honestly, shazzbutty assed RUDE emails I've gotten just trying to sell a laptop. People offering me 1200 for it, trying to convince me that I'm stupid by setting the price so high, etc....and then when I do show an ounce of brains, they get even pissier about it with me when I politley tell them thanks but no. Like they're doing me a favor by trying to rip me off.

I'm sorry, I know its just a few that ruin it for the whole. But this whole expierience has left a bad taste in my mouth with posting on MAC specific forums. Everywhere I posted, I got nothing but lip, attitude and whatever else you guys want to call it. You want to razz a new guy? Thats fine. But honestly, it does drive some people off.

Mac people have the reputation for being friendly, open, helpful people. I have yet to come across someone locally involved with Macs that are anything but. When someone new comes here to post and you guys just rip him like that....thats worse than just plain rude. I seriously believe that most of you guys just dont have any manners. You all just think its ok to just smack a guy in the face first time out. I do post in other forums around the net, and most all of them are pretty friendly when you first come in. People welcoming you and such, and even if they dont, certainly not ripping you up on a sales post, treating you like a dummy.

You can say what you want. I'm sure some of you will have great fun responding to this. I just thought I'd give the perspective from someone who didn't quite appreciate the welcome.

Bishop :(

Bruce Lee, PhD

Aug 29, 2004, 08:07 AM

I get the feeling that none of you have read the Marketplace rules we added last week; see the "For Sale/Trade Policy" thread in the Marketplace and Classifieds forum. It took some work to formulate the new rules and we hope they will help things run more smoothly there. Of course, they don't work unless people report posts that are contrary to the rules.

Doc,

I just read them and I think they're quite good. I have one question though. When a seller asks a price which is too high, why do you ask that others not call out the fact that the item is overpriced? I know that sometimes people can be outrageous with what they consider the 'right' price, and often people can be quite rude. However, I've seen many cases where sellers ask prices which are higher than new prices. I agree that ultimately it's the buyer's responsibility, but I've always liked it when someone has posted something like "Hey, you can get this new from buy.com for $25 less than you are asking for a used item". Some buyers simply may not know where to compare prices; I can imagine some buyers thinking they've found good deals because they're comparing prices to those at best buy instead of some cheaper online outlet. I've also appreciated posts where someone takes the time to calculate, say, the prices of all the components in a used PC; there was one of these recently in a thread where some guy wanted to trade his PC.

Anyway, equal access to information is a cornerstone of efficient markets, after all. :-) It seems to me it's really useful when people call out sellers asking too much, or calculate the costs of items being sold. If this can be done politely (and politely is a key rule), it seems worth doing. Heckling is wrong, but if someone has good info about real pricing, that's good for the economy.

medea

Aug 29, 2004, 09:13 AM

Dr. Q I am sorry I did not read the new rules, as usual they are right on the money. Unfortunately since many of the members which are attacked are new to the forum they may not realize you can report abuse.
By making this thread I did not mean to insinuate that the mods are not in control over there so I hope that is not how you took it. The purpose of this thread is to bring light to the problem that exists to the rest of the community.
And of course some people might no see how they are acing until they are called out on it, such as mac_head who has now apologized.

Thanks Q.

Doctor Q

Aug 29, 2004, 01:05 PM

This thread is quite timely and perfectly appropriate. It's good to have a chance to discuss the Marketplace rules with members who know the problems we've had. Comments about the new rules are quite welcome.

Some of the rules are reactions to specific problems in the past. The danger is that we may overreact/overregulate. Selling/buying/trading is not a process that can be formalized in forums like this, but we think we can do better than before. We'll learn more from further experience.

The rule about overpriced items is probably the toughest call. MacRumors members have a good instinct about scams and often try to protect and advise each other. But nobody who is selling an item wants to see the first post be a pricegrabber (or mySimon or shopper.com) analysis of where to find a better price. Protecting careless shoppers is a worthy goal, but too many times the seller hasn't gotten a chance to justify the offer. Our compromise is to ask that only interested buyers participate. That way, price issues can be in the form of questions to the buyer, not suggestions to other buyers, giving the seller a chance to explain. Maybe that distinction is too subtle, but we'll see.

Sometimes the issue is merely one of tone. It is perfectly appropriate to ask a seller what makes their slightly used 12-button mouse better than a new one you might buy at a store, but not to say "DON'T BUY THIS!!! THIS SELLER MIGHT BE A CROOK!!! TWELVEBUTTONMICE.COM ALWAYS HAS BETTER DEALS." Neither do we want "No thanks, not worth it" posts.

We still want to avoid blatant scams and pyramid schemes. If an item is extremely overpriced (much more than the new price, for example), it violates the "reasonable price" rule. The same could even be said for suspiciously underpriced items, although some sellers may simply be generous or hoping to unload items they no longer need quickly.

Often a seller won't know what the appropriate asking price is, and making a bad guess shouldn't turn the thread to flames. We hope to give them a chance to find out from the offers they get.

MacRumors can't evaluate every sale, item, seller, buyer, or price, both because MacRumors can't make any guarantees and because there is no foolproof way to make such evaluations. No system can be foolproof. What we're looking for is a better balance. If we don't achieve it, we'll consider more fine tuning.

nesuser2

Aug 29, 2004, 01:37 PM

What people don't understand is that they can't bash the seller. Nobody is willing to give anybody else the benefit of the doubt. Unless they come here and sell 10 laptops, they aren't allowed to offer a good deal on their laptop for sale. So, as it happens, people walk into the post bash the guy left and right. It doesn't have to be this way.

People can post replies to a post asking for references or asking for pictures or something. If you doubt somebody, then don't drag it through the forums unless you've got good evidence that it's a scam. If somebody on these boards does get scammed, you can be rest assured they would come here and post about it but I haven't seen any of those, or maybe i'm just not digging deep enough.

The point of my reply is to say that the Mac Rumors crowd is very legit in some of it's claims and we can all understand worry from all intersted parties but that doesn't justify being completely rude to somebody.

As far as actually selling anything here, I'm starting to think that I'll just pass up that opportunity when it comes to it. If you offer something for a little too much, you'll be told about it publicly. If you lower the price, it won't matter because nobody will be interested anyways at that point. On the other hand, if the asking price is too low then you get people throwing scam into every reply in YOUR thread and then you can never sell your item. So maybe people are better off putting things on ebay where there is always somebody willing to pay too much for mac items.

Just my two cents.

shecky

Aug 29, 2004, 02:23 PM

if you want to see a properly run forum's marketplace section, look at ArsTechnica's Agora (http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x?a=frm&s=50009562&f=57909216). They have posted a very encompassing set of rules (http://arstechnica.com/forum/agoraguide.html). I think MR should take a good long look there and apply those same rules here, because that marketplace works very well.

I posted something here for sale and then after being treated inappropriately; even after a PM to Dr Q. without getting any resolution; i moved it to Ars and had no problems there. As I said before to him, i thought it was ridiculous that there were no marketplace rules at the time, and i think its only slightly less ridiculous that this forum has over a million posts and we are only now seeing some marketplace rules, tho it is clearly a step in the right direction.

kant

Aug 29, 2004, 04:30 PM

will go a long ways towards solving this problem.

Buying and selling on eBay I've learned an important lesson that applies here as well: you're dealing with a customer who is already in the mood to buy or they wouldn't be looking at the marketplace thread. You don't have to "sell" them.

People want to know what they're buying and if the seller doesn't describe the item correctly it generates questions: always describe completely why you're selling and what the buyer is getting for their money. Describe what is included, what isn't included and why, what software comes with media and licenses, what condition the item is in, etc. Further, if the seller describes their product in an "infomercial" way, as per the example linked to at the start of the thread, they turn off potential customers and are simply begging for stupid comments. (note that I'm not defending the stupid comments, just explaining why they show up)

A "just the facts ma'am" description that includes all the complete information will sell the product quickly and at a minimum of haggling. Further, and to the point of this thread, it will remove temptation to leave witty comments.

LeeTom

Aug 29, 2004, 04:36 PM

I made a post trying to sell a 20" Apple Cinema Display ( http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=85254 ), and the only response was "a little high" (which is fine, maybe it is), and a comment about how AppleCare doesn't transfer with displays. Well you know what, he was wrong, and it really detracted from my ad, which is a shame. It was just conjecture, but it was totally false.

/rant
Lee Tom

jasonbishop73

Aug 29, 2004, 05:04 PM

nesuser2

Aug 29, 2004, 05:14 PM

Bishop takes the cake here. Users here have an idea stuck in their head and it tells them that duration of registration and post count would make a difference. As far as watching other peoples backs, there's no use. Let people watch their own back, they'll either keep better tabs on what to watch for to save money or not get ripped off or they won't care. If somebody is constantly there advising them, they'll never learn a thing.

Rezet

Aug 29, 2004, 05:31 PM

and it's called TROLLING. What is the deal with these people that attack every single post in there? If there is a product listed that you find to be at an unreasonable price or you are not even interested in then do everyone a favor and DO NOT POST A REPLY!
For those who don't frequent the marketplace/classifieds section of MR take a look at this post to see an example of utter idiocy: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=86257

I propose a ban on all posts in the marketplace that do not have to do with an honest interest in the product. It is trolling plain and simple and it is making the marketplace a horrible place for people to do business. Not all deals are a good one and it's easy to look past the bad ones, but a few bad deals is not a reason to turn a viable section of MR into a wasteland.

Excuse me, and who put you in charge? You created a thread (this one) that is non less of a spam than any other. This forums is for selling and buying not bitching over replies.

Then, I do believe people (and I myself) get carried away sometimes, but stop making that big of a deal out of it. The more thread remains active, the more it is bumped up and remains in the public view. There is no problem with questioning seller's intergrity (after all, they almost always want the money first). Nor there is anything wrong with giving tips to seller if he obviously is getting carried away with the price (because often they are not sure themselves how much their item is worth).
Not a lot of people come out and just say: "Seller is a scammer" without any proof. But many might question the seller to get more information, or perhaps shield themselves or other buyers from dishonest (mostly NEW) sellers.
Seller is not stupid and knows his options. a few extra replies not going to ruin anything for him unless someone just blindly accuses him of lying (and i don't think a lot of people do that). Most replies I see is a disagreement on the price. And I see nothing wrong with that.

the next reviva

Aug 29, 2004, 05:32 PM

this kind of garbage makes me sick. the fact that SO MANY of these people only have mean spirited snyde remarks to say is amazing!! i had to go through this crap when i SOLD my PC on THESE forums. id just like to recap the golden rule for some of you folks who might have forgotten

"treat others the way u'de like to be treated"

any of you flamers who honestly want to be treated the way you treated that guy, or any other "noob" on these threads, please PM me, so i may e-punch you in the face. seriously, if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say it. if yournot interested, dont post. if you have a CONSTRUCTIVE comment, maybe its a better idea to PM the user with your advice, instead of papering it all over his public thread. if your not compelled to help a huy out if his price truly is unreasonable, why troll? ill have to think twice before i post anything on these forums again. i dont need to deal with the kind of crap that spews out of certain members keyboards.

King Cobra

Aug 29, 2004, 05:46 PM

Excuse me, and who put you in charge? You created a thread (this one) that is non less of a spam than any other. This forums is for selling and buying not bitching over replies.
This thread was originally made in the Community Discussion section. Then a mod moved it here.

Rezet

Aug 29, 2004, 05:49 PM

You know, I can appeciate someone saying..."I think your asking price is a bit high, I'd lower it because 17 inch PB's with your same specs go for ...(however much less) on ebay, ...(other forums) etc...

But telling me that a 17" is over priced because a 15" is cheaper is just lame. As for all the other stuff, it just didnt belong.

First, as a "car salesman", you should know what value is. If you look at a sales chart and just use common sense, most people would rather get brand spanking new 15" powerbook than used and slower 17" one.

What really bugged me was that those guys got into my listing, made a joke about it, and then felt that JUST BECAUSE they were here longer, regular members, and I was a newbie that they had the RIGHT to rip me like that. Just because they were regulars and I was a noob.
It was totally uncalled for. You may not like my cheesy "car salesman" lines, but I chose to write the ad in such a way that would make the reader actually READ it all the way through.

OUCH, tough break. We WERE here longer and we do have more trust because of it (this is what promotion is for). Don't cry because someone doesn't believe you off the bet. Look around, thats just how life works.

And true to my A in english comp and creative writing, it looks like it worked. How can you knock that? All you guys that didnt like my ad...guess what.. you did exactly what I wanted you to do. You read my whole ad.

What was your psychology grade though? Most people only paid attention to your ad when they saw some clown-like comments in the replies.
No need to be pissed. Like they say: "There is no such thing as bad publicity. Any publicity is good." People kept your ad bumped up UP and you got a sale. Would you rather see it ignored it just fade away?

Now for someone who might have been just fooling with the idea of getting a 17", or someone who was saying to themselves, Geez, if I had only had the money when I bought my 12 or 15"....that ad did generate some of those inquiries.

Well, 17" were mostly popular due to their upgrades back then. As far as I see, 17" popularity is declining.

Whats really bad is that NOT ONE PERSON...NOT ONE except the actuall buyer here in town, bothered to ask me about the media and liscenses. Not one of you guys bothered to ask. You just ripped me as being a fake, and a fraud. No one bothered to ask if I had references, which I have many on ebay. I will take some responsibility for that though as I could have put that in the post to begin with.

Anyways, I'll hang around some and lurk. We'll see where it goes from here.

Bishop

Now that's just a lie. I told you in the very first reply that if you didn't transfer licenses, those wouldnt count. And that would actually supposed to make you reply and explain whether or not that software you listed was legit or not (you didn't mention it in your original post). Nobody wants to be taken for a ride.

But good luck with your new PB.

medea

Aug 29, 2004, 06:56 PM

Excuse me, and who put you in charge? You created a thread (this one) that is non less of a spam than any other. This forums is for selling and buying not bitching over replies.
Then, I do believe people (and I myself) get carried away sometimes, but stop making that big of a deal out of it.

Gee, I wasn't aware that only the mods were allowed to complain. This thread is in no way spam, it was created in the community discussion forum to discuss the problem and a moderator decided to put it in the marketplace, a moderator that I might add who stated "This thread is quite timely and perfectly appropriate. It's good to have a chance to discuss the Marketplace rules with members who know the problems we've had."
Maybe you should have read that eh?
You admit that you get carried away and that you pester sellers, therefore under the current rules you admit that you break the forum rules. If you break the rules why shouldn't someone make a "big deal out of it?"
The people breaking the rules are the ones causing a problem okay, and if you admit you are one of those people then guess what? You are causing a problem, and obviously people are not going to stand for it. Stick to the rules or have fun trying to get yourself banned.
Take care Rezet, if you enjoy the forums as much as I then I hope you decide to follow the rules from now on.

kant

Aug 29, 2004, 07:17 PM

You may not like my cheesy "car salesman" lines, but I chose to write the ad in such a way that would make the reader actually READ it all the way through.

And true to my A in english comp and creative writing, it looks like it worked. How can you knock that? All you guys that didnt like my ad...guess what.. you did exactly what I wanted you to do. You read my whole ad.

I'm sorry if you took what I wrote as an insult. Didn't mean it to be.

However, you are missing the point of what I said. Whether your ad got people to read it or not is irrelevant. (I didn't initially read the ad because I'm not in the market for a 17" so I never opened the thread.) You have a captive market here: they're already somewhat interested in buying apple or they wouldn't be here. Period. And they're already familiar with the product. The "get your attention" style of the ad was totally unnecessary because you already had the potential buyers attention. You're ad was written in a style best suited for a shotgun campaign: blast it out and maybe it will hit somebody. That style works in newspapers, television, and spam, but was counterproductive here.

I'm willing to bet that if you had written it differently, you would not have gotten nearly as many, if any, of the smartass responses. Again, I'm not defending those responses.

Rezet

Aug 29, 2004, 08:19 PM

Gee, I wasn't aware that only the mods were allowed to complain. This thread is in no way spam, it was created in the community discussion forum to discuss the problem and a moderator decided to put it in the marketplace, a moderator that I might add who stated "This thread is quite timely and perfectly appropriate. It's good to have a chance to discuss the Marketplace rules with members who know the problems we've had."
Maybe you should have read that eh?
You admit that you get carried away and that you pester sellers, therefore under the current rules you admit that you break the forum rules. If you break the rules why shouldn't someone make a "big deal out of it?"
The people breaking the rules are the ones causing a problem okay, and if you admit you are one of those people then guess what? You are causing a problem, and obviously people are not going to stand for it. Stick to the rules or have fun trying to get yourself banned.
Take care Rezet, if you enjoy the forums as much as I then I hope you decide to follow the rules from now on.

I think most people not interested in your complaining either. Stop picking grains (referring to my saying about being carried away. It's about being honest, not admitting guilt). I've read the rules and I'm quite aware of what's allowed and whats not. So If you have a problem with my posts, report them. Just don't try to threaten me to get banned, mr.boss man. Last thing I want it take bs from you.
If you think your complaining gonna help a lot your cause, complain away.

Abstract

Aug 29, 2004, 09:32 PM

I think most people not interested in your complaining either. Stop picking grains (referring to my saying about being carried away. It's about being honest, not admitting guilt). I've read the rules and I'm quite aware of what's allowed and whats not. So If you have a problem with my posts, report them. Just don't try to threaten me to get banned, mr.boss man. Last thing I want it take bs from you.
If you think your complaining gonna help a lot your cause, complain away.

Looks as though someone doesn't know how to play nice.

And since you mentioned replying in here and bumping this thread up, why have you posted in here so many times?

Rezet

Aug 29, 2004, 10:21 PM

Looks as though someone doesn't know how to play nice.

And since you mentioned replying in here and bumping this thread up, why have you posted in here so many times?

Nah just little tired of people who have nothing to do but complain about things that everyone sees. If admins don't remove those replies, they feel they are appropriate enough to be there. No need to scream about it.
As far as this post being bumped, I don't mind. I never said everyone should think same way I do. I just stated my view.

mcadam

Aug 29, 2004, 11:14 PM

Quite funny rezet - you're completely biting your own tail with your argumentation. Behaving exactly how you claim and complain other people does... :D :p

amazing you don't see it yourself - but just go on and on... perhaps you should calm down and try and listen to what people are saying...

You seem to be a living proof that your number of posts is not necessarily a guarantee of anything, well, not of good behavior at least!

..but then again, i'm still just a little newbie, so you obviously shouldn't take me seriously at all :rolleyes:

jasonbishop73

Aug 29, 2004, 11:52 PM

This post will probably be my last, due to the fact that I'm a man that votes with his dollars, and with his time, so it will be quite lenghty.

You admit that you get carried away and that you pester sellers, therefore under the current rules you admit that you break the forum rules. If you break the rules why shouldn't someone make a "big deal out of it?"
The people breaking the rules are the ones causing a problem okay, and if you admit you are one of those people then guess what? You are causing a problem, and obviously people are not going to stand for it. Stick to the rules or have fun trying to get yourself banned.
Take care Rezet, if you enjoy the forums as much as I then I hope you decide to follow the rules from now on.

I couldnt have said it better myself. I'm so tired of people with rude attitudes pissing on my parade, then telling me that its just a light drizzle. Dont make a big deal about it? I bet if Rezet were selling one of his Macs and he had the urgency behind wanting to sell it and I came into your post and hijacked it with my buddies, and all of us acting like azz's I bet you'd be the first person to notify the mods here to have it taken off. You'd be complain high and loud if I did that to you. If I put in the exact same posts I got, you'd be asking for the mods to take them off and lock the thread and to have them ban me personally.

For me, this is a dead issue. I've seen so much justification on this ONE THREAD here about how its ok to be rude to someone else, just because they're new, yet these same people do it over and over. Yeah, I did read alot of the rest of the board today. You ask me, if I was a Mod for a day....Id have alist of about 10 people who'd be permanently banned just for their shazzbutty attitudes. You guys know who you are, because you're the onese who think yourselves to be so much more clever than the rest of ..."us". You guys run around with your little avatars and signatures that try to scream out to the rest of the world how "cool" and superior you think you are to the rest of the board, and all you do is spout your negative, condesending attitudes on the multitude. Theres about 4 of you who, in my reading of the first 3 pages of pretty much every forum here...every thread, when you contribute..you 4 contribute NOTHING...and I do mean NOTHING POSITIVE. All you do is rag on people.

My expierience, guys like you, dont have the guts to say it anywhere else, so you come onto this board to make everyone else feel miserable.

Mods, and those of you that participated in this discussion, I thank you. Doc, I am sure that you do make the 200% honest effort to make this the best Mac forum around. Me personally though, this whole thing has ruined your forum for me. As I said before. I'm a PC tech. I own my own business. I sell Apple to some of my customers. I even point them to the web for help. I had started to give my customers a custom FAVORITES folder that they can use on their computer. The best of everything. Saddly at this point I wont be including your site anymore. Could you imagine if I had sent a customer here to sell a Mac, and this was the response they got? They'd think my judgement was impaired and raise hell about it.

I think this thread has made clear that new people are in fact NOT welcome, despite all claims to the contrary. Just look at the responses here. All these people telling me yes, we're usually friendly. But look how many said "well because you're new we treated you like crap. You have to EARN us being nice to you."

Doc, honestly if it was me, I'd be looking at the pattern of how your regular posters post. (I got an A- in psyc Rezet) And he's as good an example as any. I have yet to see, in any of his posts where he's trying to be positive. He'd be the first one to go simply because he just cant shut his mouth long enough for something good to come out. Sorry but thats the way I see it. At least on places like Mac-Forums.com the first thing a newbie gets isn't something like this. Mistrust because of newness, spite, non constructive critisism. I'd take a long hard look at sending Rezet to the nether regions. No, really. The nether regions. Because guys like him screw it up for the rest of us. He doesnt make it seem like an open to the public kind of club, he makes it seem like a snobs only elietist club.

Just my 20 cents. Thanks again,
Bishop

Rezet

Aug 30, 2004, 02:06 AM

First off all, bishop, calm down. Nobody hates you here. We were just having a discussion. Second stop making it sound like you have been offended with your dear life here. People just started a bidding to a post that screams "ONE DAY ONLY". Not like we really want you out.
There is nothing elitest about my signature dude or way I behave. I do, just like everyone think my opinion counts even if you may not like it. But you have to realize, you still are new, so you don't have the same trust of people who are DEMI-GOD. It's like that everywhere. You try to sell something on ebay with 0 feedback, people dont bid much. You have a 1000 (99%) feedback, and it's not an issue. I don't understand why you are taking a personal swing at me when I haven't exactly done anything to you but point out that software has to be licensed if you want to include that into your pitch. NOthing personal there. It's that some people include bootleg copies and want to get more $$ from it.

And believe me, Bishop, I tried to sell and buy things here and my threads been both ignored and spammed. I never made such a big deal out it.
Your thread sounded a little comical and you got comical responses. Get over it. NObody kicked you out or banned you. Just move on. Make a new one if old one gets spammed to the point you cant sell your product. If you feel that a specific post was offensive, you can always click "report this post" button and Admins will take a look at it.

I have yet to see (rezet), in any of his posts where he's trying to be positive. He'd be the first one to go simply because he just cant shut his mouth long enough for something good to come out.

You didn't look at my posts then. No proof,just a " drive-by grenade throwing".
I don't have to prove anything, but here is one of my recent marketplace posts:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=81585

And trust me, I speak out a lot, often not taking a popular side, and perhaps not liked that much by "neat&easily offended bugs" like you as you can sense. But calls to ban someone because he put "I'll give you 5 dollars and a cookie" as a reply to a "splash" ad is NOT a reason to ban anyone.

This cracked me up though:

You ask me, if I was a Mod for a day....Id have alist of about 10 people who'd be permanently banned just for their shazzbutty attitudes. You guys know who you are, because you're the onese who think yourselves to be so much more clever than the rest of ..."us". You guys run around with your little avatars and signatures that try to scream out to the rest of the world how "cool" and superior you think you are to the rest of the board, and all you do is spout your negative, condesending attitudes on the multitude.

LOL Well this is why you are not a Mod, and probably will not be one. :rolleyes:

Mods, and those of you that participated in this discussion, I thank you. Doc, I am sure that you do make the 200% honest effort to make this the best Mac forum around. Me personally though, this whole thing has ruined your forum for me. As I said before. I'm a PC tech. I own my own business. I sell Apple to some of my customers. I even point them to the web for help. I had started to give my customers a custom FAVORITES folder that they can use on their computer. The best of everything. Saddly at this point I wont be including your site anymore. Could you imagine if I had sent a customer here to sell a Mac, and this was the response they got? They'd think my judgement was impaired and raise hell about it.

Bishop: "OK this is where I try to get a synpathy from admins. I'll tell them they were getting lotsa customers becuase of me and now they lost it all! So maybe they will tell me to stay and ban those clowns! Brilliant!"

Nice try. But I wouldn't give A- for that.

And what you said about newbies is pretty much true. But you just made it sound like what happend here is an exception. You get a job, everyone tells you that you are welcome there yet get treated like crap... especially blue collar jobs. You are not surprised that people that have been with teh company the longest get the best job positions? Thats just how things work. People who have been "there" longer get better treatment.
When I was a n00b at these forums I got it worse at times.
I'm not saying that in these forums whoever posted most post is the king. But obviously someone who already sold something here and has 200 posts probably will be trusted more than a new guy with a "car sales-like" ad.
I say, relax, don't think that i'm really mad at you. Most of the stuff I typed, I typed with :) face and not :mad: face.

I don't care if you stay or go. I just don't think you have been offended that bad (if at all) to be so mad.

Bruce Lee, PhD

Aug 30, 2004, 07:52 AM

MacRumors can't evaluate every sale, item, seller, buyer, or price, both because MacRumors can't make any guarantees and because there is no foolproof way to make such evaluations. No system can be foolproof. What we're looking for is a better balance. If we don't achieve it, we'll consider more fine tuning.

It's clear you guys have put a lot of thought into this; that's nice to see. As you say, marketplace rules are a tough issue since people tend to be such asses in response to many marketplace postings. Many people with price criticism feel that the lowest price they ever saw somehow determines fair value. And others seem to take a perverse pleasure in strafing the marketplace, so to speak, telling others that their items aren't worth much.

Personally, I've gotten to the point where I use the rudeness as a sort of barometer: if I'm selling an item and someone doesn't give me a bit of a hard time about my asking price I figure I set my opening price too low. I think a lot of people fail to realize that asking prices are supposed to be a bit high, but within reason, so you have room to negotiate.

Anyway, I think your rules seem quite reasonable.

Mord

Aug 30, 2004, 08:19 AM

i'm guilty of this type thing most of the time.

i'd just lock off the market place forums so only the seller can edit his posts and make threads, this stops people haveing bump wars, and stops flamers.

i'm guilty of replying to sellers generally if the seller has tyred to sell the item in several forums with about 4 threads on each forum, or if the seller is acting like a cheesy used car salesman, i'll try to restrain myself if it's inappropriate in the future.

medea

Aug 30, 2004, 09:14 AM

Hector: Hopefully right now this thread has brought some awareness of the problem and the rules everyone needs to abide by, but if the problem continues I think that closing off marketplace threads to non-seller replies and making it a PM/Email only forum could seriously alleviate the problem. That is a tad drastic though and hope that does not become the case.

Rezet: You state that you believe your opinion counts even if we may not like it and that you also speak out a lot often not on the public side yet you feel the need to rag on me for having an opinion and having the balls to post it. What's the deal? As of this moment I think you can agree that there is a set of rules in the forum and those rules must be abided by, after all in the end this is a private forum. Though you may find comments like "I'll give you $5 and a cookie" are comical they do not belong in the marketplace and are indeed against the rules. If you feel the rules are inappropriate then feel free to contact those in charge.

wPod

Aug 30, 2004, 09:37 AM

I have lost all hope in the market place forums. I twice tried to sell my old iBook (the one with the video card problems). And I got bad comments because of the video card. The price was pretty low because of this but I tried to point out that apple would fix this for free should the video card go out. I thought I would be more likely to sell it to someone who liked macs enough to take part in the forums. And that they would be more understanding about how quickly Apple will fix something. Oh well, I guess Ill just go strait to e-bay the next time I have anything apple related to sell.

Rezet

Aug 30, 2004, 11:52 AM

Rezet: You state that you believe your opinion counts even if we may not like it and that you also speak out a lot often not on the public side yet you feel the need to rag on me for having an opinion and having the balls to post it. What's the deal? As of this moment I think you can agree that there is a set of rules in the forum and those rules must be abided by, after all in the end this is a private forum. Though you may find comments like "I'll give you $5 and a cookie" are comical they do not belong in the marketplace and are indeed against the rules. If you feel the rules are inappropriate then feel free to contact those in charge.

Well, I didn't know this thread was moved from other place. If I did, the very first paragraph wouldn't be there. When I saw it here, I thought it was ironic that you complain about the rules, yet make a thread that might start a flame. No beef with your opinion man ... :D

rueyeet

Aug 30, 2004, 01:40 PM

As long as we're stating opinions, I think the so-called "comical" behavior on Bishop's sale was rude, un-called for, and just plain childish; and I don't care how he phrased his sale. But hey, we're only talking opinions here. :rolleyes:

I do have a couple of suggestions, hopefully constructive:

One: Highlight the For Sale/Trade Policy sticky with a Please Read Before Posting Any Items! line. Possibly in red. Draw the eyes of posters new to this board so that there's a higher chance of them seeing that there are rules, upfront. Right now it's a bit easy to ignore.

Two: Include in the rules for sellers the distinction that software should not be included in the sale or its price, unless the original disks are provided. Make it absolutely clear that simply leaving MS Office installed doesn't count, and that "loaded with lots of fantastic software!" doesn't mean crap unless it's discs and all. Right now, this isn't as explicit as past experience would argue it needs to be.

Doctor Q

Aug 30, 2004, 01:54 PM

Elan0204

Aug 30, 2004, 02:02 PM

Has anybody had a good success rate buying or selling here?

I've successfully bought 2 things through the forums, and have sold 3. Not huge numbers, but I've been happy with all 5 of the transactions.

vraxtus

Aug 30, 2004, 02:15 PM

As long as we're stating opinions, I think the so-called "comical" behavior on Bishop's sale was rude, un-called for, and just plain childish; and I don't care how he phrased his sale. But hey, we're only talking opinions here. :rolleyes:

Immaturity may be at fault here...

I've noticed a number of the posters (like me in fact) are rather young... and with that comes a certain lack of immaturity (though not in all cases) where the comical and satirical cloud and infest even the most benign of posts.

This I would say is *NOT* limited to the marketplace.

However that said I can understand the usual skepticism of some marketplace posts... Obviously there are those out there that have little or no common sense, for instance the thread about cheap 3G iPods...

I think in general the biggest concern here is respect, and consideration. Post whatever you want but be mindful of others at the same time.

I know I can post some assenine things, but I do so usually with on the disclaimer that I'm not trying to be an ass, but post in response to things that seem to be devoid of total common sense... which to me is legitimate.

Let's all just be nice :D

kant

Aug 30, 2004, 08:51 PM

Has anybody had a good success rate buying or selling here?

I'm 1 for 1 buying. Went without a hitch.

I expect that I'll buy and sell more now that I'm doing the switch thing. :)

Elan0204

Aug 30, 2004, 09:20 PM

However that said I can understand the usual skepticism of some marketplace posts... Obviously there are those out there that have little or no common sense, for instance the thread about cheap 3G iPods...

Actually, I think that is a good example of how things should be handled in a situation where the prices are too low (and therefore people think the sale is a scam). I don't think the people posting in that thread (myself included) lacked common sense, we were all politely asking for more information, and allowing the seller to prove themselves trustworthy. Do I think it's a scam? Probably. But rather than coming out and saying that, I (and the other initial posters in that thread) began asking questions in order to give the seller a chance to prove themselves. Asking things like, What forms of payment do you accept? and Do you have any refrences? and Any chance of seeing pics of all these 'pods? If legit, it shouldn't be a problem to post a pic of, say, several of each model, new in boxes, near paper which says "MacRumors". Might make people feel better, might spur more sales. Rather than accusing the seller of being a scammer, we all politely asked questions to allow us to really decide if the seller was legitamate. Now, once it seemed that the sellers answers were falling apart (in post #15), then someone came right out and said what we were all thinking, that this was a scam. I think if more people in the Marketplace behaved that way, things would be a lot better off.

Now in the case of jasonbishop73, I think people reacted the way they did because of the way his ad was written. Was his price "crazy?" I don't think so. If the powerbook had not sold in his timeframe of "today only," would he have given up and moved on? I don't think so. His ad was written like he was a cheesy used car salesman, and how many people trust used car salesmen? However, jasonbishop73's choice of writing syle aside, I don't think it justified the posts in his thread. Instead, people should have asked their questions, made serious offers, and used their best judgement when deciding whether or not to make the purchase. Plus, jasonbishop73 was looking to do a local transaction, which is usually a good sign that a sale is not a scam. If you were turned off by his advertising style, then don't buy his powerbook. There are plenty of other people to buy one from.

King Cobra

Aug 30, 2004, 10:29 PM

Collecting 2 cents from everyone can add up to a lot of change!
In that case, you don't want to know what happened to that girl that swallowed a quarter.

QCassidy352

Aug 30, 2004, 10:41 PM

i very much agree with medea. If you're not interested, don't post in reply in the classifieds. It's thread crapping, pure and simple. The marketplace is for people who legitimately want to buy and sell things - not an open forum for back and forth banter among those who have no interest.

vga4life

Aug 31, 2004, 12:40 AM

Thinking about this from a Mac community standpoint, why shouldn't it be desirable for mac users to get the best deal possible?

Friends don't let friends pay too much for their muf... er... Mac. Overpriced kit gives this community a bad name.

I'm firmly of the opinion that if a seller wants to post an ad where nobody can publicly respond, they have many options besides this forum - ebay and craigslist come to mind.

By posting an ad on a forum where people can publicly reply to listings, you are implicitly accepting the risk that someone might point out that your $2000 TiBook (or whatever) isn't such a great deal compared to apple's refurbs/another model/another for-sale post/etc. There are nice ways of warning potential buyers - one needn't be mean about it.

Guess who wins? The would-be buyer who gets a better deal and comes away thinking that the macrumors community is honest.

I say it again - don't want people to respond to your listings? Take it to ebay, craigslist, or any of a dozen other places.

just my $0.02
-vga4life

vraxtus

Aug 31, 2004, 11:10 AM

Actually, I think that is a good example of how things should be handled in a situation where the prices are too low (and therefore people think the sale is a scam). I don't think the people posting in that thread (myself included) lacked common sense, we were all politely asking for more information, and allowing the seller to prove themselves trustworthy. Do I think it's a scam? Probably. But rather than coming out and saying that, I (and the other initial posters in that thread) began asking questions in order to give the seller a chance to prove themselves. Asking things like, and and Rather than accusing the seller of being a scammer, we all politely asked questions to allow us to really decide if the seller was legitamate. Now, once it seemed that the sellers answers were falling apart (in post #15), then someone came right out and said what we were all thinking, that this was a scam. I think if more people in the Marketplace behaved that way, things would be a lot better off.

Sorry Elan you misinterpreted. I meant that the original poster lacked the common sense to 1) post a sale before he actually had the items and 2) have no guarantee of actually getting them. I think all the comments he received were completely warranted.

liquidh2o

Aug 31, 2004, 01:22 PM

I've been a big advocate of enforcing forum policy when it comes to a marketplace/buy/sell/trade forums because It's a great tool for me to buy things I might not necessarily be able to find elsewhere or finding something cheaper than I would new, vice versa when it comes to selling items I'm expanding my chances of finding a potential buyer numerous times over because of the vast number of people that will be able to view that item for sale as opposed to just selling locally.

This is not only a great tool for myself, but for countless other people as well. When done properly, transactions can be smooth and effortless.

That being said, what I see in this particular forum is a zoo in need of some fecal matter cleanup :). I find myself coming to this particular forum sometimes just for the amusement factor rather than actually putting up something for sale/to buy.

Some highlighted points.

1.) People are way to opinionated about what a 'Fair Market Value' (FMV) is for an item, and while you're entitled to your opinion, you're directed by the forum rules in how you express that opinion.

2.) An item is worth what a person will pay for it. It's that simple. Some people may be asking for more than what an item sells for new, to you that may not be a reasonable price, to someone else it may be a deal, circumstances only privy to the potential buyer/seller will dictate its worth to him/her. You're entitled to negotiate, but in no way is someone obligated to sell/trade an item for what you feel its worth is until you both come to an agreement on the details. If you can't come to an agreement that satisfies both parties needs, that should end the negotiating unless one of you feels that they can make a compromise to make the deal happen. Attempts to criticize someone, or berate there item in attempt to get a lower price should not be allowed nor tolerated, and if it happens it should be reported immediately.

3.) Yes, there are trolls, and there are ways of dealing with them. One way is through the use of the 'report' button that's located in every thread. (I'm not sure if this forum works this way-->) Also making sure all members have there profiles enabled/viewable and completely filled out can go a long ways in putting a potential buyers mind at ease.

4.) Leaving feedback after a deal is key to maintaining and ongoing repoir with people in future transactions. Nothing speaks more about your reputation as a seller/buyer than being able to show the other party that you have an established history of being a good trader. Most of the traders I know use www.heatware.com but there are also those who use www.beerology.com

quick tip: make sure your email matches that of your feedback username, and make sure you check those same things on the person you're dealing with to avoid a potential scam.

If I can think of anything else I'll try to post it later on.

Stinkysteve

Aug 31, 2004, 11:09 PM

I'm glad to see the suggestions rolling in. Collecting 2 cents from everyone can add up to a lot of change!

Since nobody complains when things go right or when an item simply doesn't sell, I don't know how often Marketplace sales are successful. Has anybody had a good success rate buying or selling here?

By the way, the rules cover sales and trades. Does anybody really ever do trades?

I bought 5 items through this forum over the last 2 years without a problem. They were all small ticket items.
I even sent one member who was looking for a broken optical mouse for the price of the postage.

the next reviva

Aug 31, 2004, 11:59 PM

I'm glad to see the suggestions rolling in. Collecting 2 cents from everyone can add up to a lot of change!

Since nobody complains when things go right or when an item simply doesn't sell, I don't know how often Marketplace sales are successful. Has anybody had a good success rate buying or selling here?

By the way, the rules cover sales and trades. Does anybody really ever do trades?

as a matter of fact, the only business ive conducted on these forums have been trades. i traded my pc system for a g4, and then the g4 for another pc system with an lcd. i had to deal with loads of "ewwww, youll never offload a pc here" or "this is a mac forum, pc's be gone!" these really arent the easiest forums to conduct business on, especially for a new guy

0s and 1s

Sep 1, 2004, 12:19 PM

Bishop: I agree with the poster that your tone in your thread suggested that you were a scammer. Someone questioned the licensing of the software in your thread, and you never responded. That, along with the recent slew of "too good to be true" deals coming from new posters just opened up a golden opportunity for posters both old and new to have a little fun. I'm not justifying the ridicule by any means, but potential buyers are tired of the numerous bogus deals we receive through forums, ebay, etc. that your post somehow became the "acceptable" place to vent our frustrations. If this caused any emotional distress, time off work, etc., then I suggest not only therapy, but a thicker skin when using internet forums.

jeremy.king

Sep 2, 2004, 11:09 AM

Thanks for the good read ladies/gents.

I too have pointed out thread crappers in the Marketplace (im still looking for an emoticon that takes a dump), but you can't try to control threads....ITS A FORUM FOR PETES SAKE. If you want classifieds, use craigslist :rolleyes:

Second, I find it funny that bishop feels he was vindicated cause he conned some person with his computer and tons of pirated software. I like the "but thank god I'm a winDOZE tech. Every cd gets imaged on my server along with a sticky note of the serial. Multiple copies, no worries I say! " comment. Funny part is that most Windoze techs know to lockup the originals and only use copies, not vice versa. Sticky notes of the serials??? I can use Google (http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&q=windows%20serialz) too :eek:

Anywho, I wouldn't say that the so-called trolling or thread crapping is rampant, but I will agree its usually the same offenders. However in their defense, they usually have a legitimate gripe. People should know you can't hawk hardware with software installed, without providing the original installation CDs. That adds no value AND is illegal. For the people with PC listings, including myself (with no luck) - this IS a mac centric forum, so what did you expect? I agree there are better ways to point out a high asking price, but not everyone is as tactful as they could be.

Reading what I just read, I don't think I made a point, so I will leave with this. Its a forum, people can respond as they want. A truly educated buyer will overlook the troll posts and will make a decision themselves. Off I go to look for overpriced listings :D

TTFN

RGunner

Sep 2, 2004, 11:43 AM

I have purchased several items here on Macrumors and have been overall happy (a problem or two, but that is to be expected). I wanted to resist placing my opinion, but I think I will.

Although I dearly love MacRumors and the service they provide (reading this board / forum several times a day), I do find fault with the moderators and the owners of this forum. Frankly the biggest problem I see is the bundling of software (most of which being illegal) to bolster the sales of someones goods. This could be easily stopped through the use of moderation and a change in the rules, however it appears the moderators turn a blind eye and let the 'buyer' and 'seller' beware.

Let me ask this, if I were to put up a bulletin board and 'hawk' stolen cars, guns or stereo equipment would this not be the same as what we are seeing here?

The stealing of software and even firmware (another topic) places more of a burdon on those of us who legitimately pay for goods.

Good day folks!

medea

Sep 2, 2004, 11:45 AM

Reading what I just read, I don't think I made a point, so I will leave with this. Its a forum, people can respond as they want. A truly educated buyer will overlook the troll posts and will make a decision themselves. Off I go to look for overpriced listings :D

TTFN
Yes this is a forum, but no people can not respond any way they want. The rules are very clear on what is allowed and what is not.
It's quite simple really so I don't understand why everyone is overlooking this fact.

If a thread appears that you know for a fact is offering illegal software then there is a correct way to report that post and an incorrect way. The correct way is to report it and it will be removed, the incorrect way is the spam the thread which only bumps the thread up more and keeps it alive for someone to get screwed over. If these types of threads actually bother you then report them.

macdaddy121

Oct 19, 2004, 01:27 PM

jxyama

Oct 19, 2004, 01:58 PM

I do not understand why a macrumors member can not post that they think a price is high. This is a discussion forum. We discuss things and one of the things we discuss is price. Should Apple have the right to come in here and ask us not to talk about the systems they have for sale and how they have "fallen short" on our expectations. No. If the price is high then I think I have a right to say it is high. If someone interested in buying thinks that it is not high then they will do some research and make their own decision.

P.S.---We discuss if we think something is a good deal. As in a low price.

you missed the whole point. these are person to person sales. let the sellers and potential buyers discuss the price. if you aren't interested, no one's forcing you to not to post, rather, we are just asking for courtesy in abstaining from making the thread unreadable. (not to mention how frustrating it is for the seller to see all sort of responses from people not interested in the item at all.)

it's a courtesy. let's be reasonable here, instead of "i have a right" "is it wrong" etc. etc., shall we?

t300

Oct 19, 2004, 02:07 PM

This thread came back outta nowhere...

jxyama

Oct 19, 2004, 02:11 PM

This thread came back outta nowhere...

yeah, a month and a half after the last post, a newbie decides to comment out of nowhere...

i'd like to see a Dr. Q sponsored research on newbie's first post statistics. i'd imagine they all fall within one of these categories:

1) should i get an i[something] or Power[something]?
2) how does [a mac] compare to a [pc]?
3) should i wait for a g5 PB?
4) is now a good time to buy?
5) trolls
6) some random thread that died a month ago.

or, wait, i forgot:
7) free iPod!!!11!!! LOL!!!!

Doctor Q

Oct 19, 2004, 02:47 PM

yeah, a month and a half after the last post, a newbie decides to comment out of nowhere...Actually, it was by invitation. Anybody with comments is welcome to resurrect this thread.

i'd like to see a Dr. Q sponsored research on newbie's first post statistics...I did as you suggested. Here is my "extremely thorough" survey (i.e., huge margin of error) based on the first post of the last 10 newbies who have joined and posted:

1. A comment about a camera in the Buying Tips, Advice, and Discussion forum.

2. A comment about today's newly announced iBooks.

3. Answering a question about a wireless router recommendation.

4. A comment about today's newly announced Power Mac.

5. A comment about Ken Jennings on the Jeopardy! TV show.

6. Shopping question about why PowerBook displays are so dark.

7. Noting that the free weekly iTune wasn't free at first today.

8. A comment about today's newly announced iBooks.

9. A comment about Apple adding the Nvidia 6800 GT to the store.

10. Asking how to make money from a website.

It only seems as if first posts are in the categories you mention because you tend to notice when those types of posts appear. When there is a "free iPods" post, it is almost always the first (and last!) post of a new member, but that doesn't mean that a large percentage of first posts are about free iPods.

OK, you already knew that and your comment was a joke, but you do bring up a relevant issue. Quite often a member's first post is in the Marketplace forum. If they joined only to sell their baseball card collection and never return, they aren't our target audience, but we'd still like to make any new member feel welcome because their picking this site is a sign that they are part of the Macintosh community. Attacking newbie sellers won't help them feel welcome, but of course it is the newbie seller for whom other members demand the most information and proof of legitimacy, and new members may not realize in advance what's needed to make a sale go smoothly.

Frankly, I don't know whether to assume that Newbies are most likely to be familiar with the site rules, since they just joined and would be likely to click on the sticky threads in each forum, or whether Newbies are least likely to be familiar with the rules because they haven't yet learned their way around.

zelmo

Oct 19, 2004, 03:13 PM

...It only seems as if first posts are in the categories you mention because you tend to notice when those types of posts appear. When there is a "free iPods" post, it is almost always the first (and last!) post of a new member, but that doesn't mean that a large percentage of first posts are about free iPods.

OK, you already knew that and your comment was a joke, but you do bring up a relevant issue. Quite often a member's first post is in the Marketplace forum. If they joined only to sell their baseball card collection and never return, they aren't our target audience, but we'd still like to make any new member feel welcome because their picking this site is a sign that they are part of the Macintosh community. Attacking newbie sellers won't help them feel welcome, but of course it is the newbie seller for whom other members demand the most information and proof of legitimacy, and new members may not realize in advance what's needed to make a sale go smoothly.

Frankly, I don't know whether to assume that Newbies are most likely to be familiar with the site rules, since they just joined and would be likely to click on the sticky threads in each forum, or whether Newbies are least likely to be familiar with the rules because they haven't yet learned their way around.

Apologize in advance if this is a little OT, but wasn't sure where else to post, didn't think it warranted a new thread, and since reading your reply is was made me wonder....

I thought it might be interesting to go back and read the first postings of some of the more prolific and prominent MR members, but I can only access the most recent 500 posts. Is there any way to view older posts in such a context? I'd suggest that it might be funny to have a thread which is a collection of first posts, but since they would all be out of context with one another, that would be the most disjointed thread ever.

Doctor Q

Oct 19, 2004, 03:19 PM

I thought it might be interesting to go back and read the first postings of some of the more prolific and prominent MR members..Suggest that in the trivia thread and maybe somebody (which might be me) will try to do it.

zelmo

Oct 19, 2004, 03:33 PM

Suggest that in the trivia thread and maybe somebody (which might be me) will try to do it.

Done. I thought about putting it there before posting it here, but since that thread seems more about statistical information, it didn't seem to fit.

umgolfer

Oct 19, 2004, 03:37 PM

Speaking of totally off topic posts, how do you get rid of the newbie label? I have tried to figure that out, but to no avail. I have been a member here for quite some time, post once and awhile (even though I read 3-4x a day) and still am a newbie. I have had a great time using the boards and have bought and sold items here with great success. I am assuming the newbie status goes away with post count and not time, correct?

Anyways this thread was started again because someone was thread crapping on another persons sale and their comments were removed by Dr. Q. I am guessing that this person that had their comments edited was upset and wanted to vent their frustration in this thread. The ironic part of this was that the person that wanted to complain in this thread was complaining about doing what this thread wanted to stop. (Isn't it ironic, don't you think...now that is stuck in my mind....)

zelmo

Oct 19, 2004, 03:41 PM

umgolfer

Oct 19, 2004, 03:42 PM

Whoa I am a member now. I didn't even notice. Yeah to me! Thanks!

macdaddy121

Oct 21, 2004, 01:38 PM

well just to let all of you so called "true members" know, I have been a member of macrumors for almost two years. I just don't post much. I get on here almost everyday and read what everyone has to say and argue about. Some of you'll on the other hand have been members for about 3 months and think you are part of the VIP here. Please don't come out bad mouthing the "newbies" of this thread. You ask why? Because you were one a very short time ago and they are what keep this website going.

On the whole, should I post in a classified ad? Yea. I am interested in several computers for sale in the classified section. Therefore I have a right to comment on any thing I am interested in. If something is more expensive then the rest of the items just like it for sale, then I am going to comment on the overpricing. Other's comment on wether they think something is a scam or not. I have seen it happen several times in the past two weeks!!!! So for me to just comment if something is to expensive doesn't seem too bad once you see someone else calling a seller a liar and a theif!!

ineedipod

Oct 21, 2004, 02:14 PM

man...i just may give that guy 7$ for that laptop

lalcan

Oct 21, 2004, 04:34 PM

If you ask me, member status should be assigned according to the number of posts, number of pages viewed and number of days with at least one visit to MacRumors. Also, there should be a way to lower a member status when he/she brakes the rules.

Isn't there a complex system like that in /.?

Greetings!

OT PS there should be an online spell checker for all us non-english-first-language-speakers

OT PPS i'm pretty sure some German might come up with a single word to imply the meaning of "non-english-first-language-speakers" :)

lewdvig

Oct 21, 2004, 05:34 PM