Alternative to ATI 4870 for MacPro 1,1?

[glawrie]

I have a MacPro 1,1 with the original Nvidia Ge7300GT card.

I would like to update it with a better graphics card.

I saw the threads about the option of flashing a PC edition of the ATI 4870 card, and this seemed like a good option. But it seems to be important to get a specific type of ATI4870, and all the ones suggested in the various threads are now showing delisted / out of stock, and on 2nd hand market you can't be sure of the type of card so easily.

So are there other cards I could use that will work with the 1,1?

I'm not interested in state-of-the-art (nor do I have that kind of budget), but something that will improve the speed of graphics to allow photo / video to work better.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Cindori]

you can do the 4890 too, see my sig

i have 2 flashed 4870s to get rid of though if your interested, pm

[aibo]

How about a 4870 made by Apple?

How about a GeForce 8800 GT?

[Cindori]

8800 is no longer being sold


4870 from apple = you pay double price for card with half memory.

[aibo]

8800 is no longer being sold


4870 from apple = you pay double price for card with half memory.

I still think most mac users don't mind the extra ~$100. After all, we paid more for macs in the first place so things "just work". Money isn't an issue for many of us.

Also, having double the memory on a hacked 4870 doesn't mean anything since genuine Apple OEM 4870's benchmark faster due to having full 5.0 GT/s link speed instead of 2.5.

BTW I'm not opposed to flashing gfx cards. I did it back in the old days with my Radeon 7000 and even 3dfx Voodoo3 2000. Just decided it wasn't worth the trouble this time around.

[forester54]

ive thought about buying one to not have to deal with flashing cards but it will save a big chunk of money so I am looking at buying a 4890

[Cindori]

a 4870 does not saturade 2.5GT/s. a 5870 does not even do that...

oh yes in 1 app Mudbox but basically not.


Does not matter anyway since 2006 mac pro can only run ANY card at 2.5GT/s


flashed 4870 has double VRAM and higher clock and will eat apple's card anyday, trufact.

It's as much as 200 $ more for apples card.

get right card and it's a 1 click job with my app.

also, Apple withdraws the 4870 warranty If you use it in a 2006.
you can let apple fu_ck you over completely if you want to. I'm just saying.

[aibo]

Does not matter anyway since 2006 mac pro can only run ANY card at 2.5GT/s
Hmm, I did not know that. Good to know.

I bought my 4870 at launch and paid the student price ($50 off). At that time, the real OEM card was less than $100 more than a flash-friendly PC 4870 from NewEgg. I haven't followed prices since. So yeah, flashing a PC version just wasn't worth it to me at the time.

also, Apple withdraws the 4870 warranty If you use it in a 2006.
you can let apple fu_ck you over completely if you want to. I'm just saying.

True, though the chances of Apple ****** over people with flashed cards in an OS X update is a higher probability IMO.

[Cindori]

no, it's impossible, you obviously don't know the tech behind it so dont mention stuff like that, a flashed 4870 is identical to apple card.


theres nothing magical with apple gpus.
buy any PC 4870 and peel of the sticker on top, tada~~~it even looks like the Apple card. flash it and you got an perfectly identical copy (with twice the space on the vram chip if you'd like)

[aibo]

no, it's impossible, you obviously don't know the tech behind it so dont mention stuff like that, a flashed 4870 is identical to apple card.

theres nothing magical with apple gpus.
buy any PC 4870 and peel of the sticker on top, tada~~~it even looks like the Apple card. flash it and you got an perfectly identical copy (with twice the space on the vram chip if you'd like)

Obviously I don't know the tech. But they're not identical or a flashed 4870 wouldn't be reporting 2.5 GT/s link speed. Apple could impliment a check specifically for that, and disable the video. Or how about a check to make sure the card has 512MB. And yeah, blocking the 4890 would be even easier.

[Fiete5401]

Apple could impliment a check specifically for that, and disable the video. Or how about a check to make sure the card has 512MB. And yeah, blocking the 4890 would be even easier.

Apple could build an atomic bomb too but it would make as much sense as blocking flashed gpus -> absolutely none.

[Cindori]

Apple could build an atomic bomb too but it would make as much sense as blocking flashed gpus -> absolutely none.

quote for truth.

the chance is bigger that they will block 3rd party hard drives or RAM, seeing as flashed cards are like 1.5% of the worlds Mac Pro cards..

[aibo]

quote for truth.

the chance is bigger that they will block 3rd party hard drives or RAM, seeing as flashed cards are like 1.5% of the worlds Mac Pro cards..

1.5% of Mac Pro cards, and 100% of Hackintosh cards. If they ever did do it, it would be as a tool in their war against Hackintoshes.

[Cindori]

it's not as easy as writing a line of code, <if card =4870 & !=512mb; stop display> :rolleyes:

the support for apple's cards are there, you just cant remove the support for PC cards without harming the apple cards. it's the same hardware.

apple would have a HECK of a job if they suddenly had to BLOCK all the components they DIDNT use. to me it looks like they are having trouble getting the components they ARE using to work OK in the first place; see 2009 mac pro audio bug. (solved yes, after _9_ months though)

[aibo]

it's not as easy as writing a line of code, <if card =4870 & !=512mb; stop display> :rolleyes:

the support for apple's cards are there, you just cant remove the support for PC cards without harming the apple cards. it's the same hardware.

apple would have a HECK of a job if they suddenly had to BLOCK all the components they DIDNT use. to me it looks like they are having trouble getting the components they ARE using to work OK in the first place; see 2009 mac pro audio bug. (solved yes, after _9_ months though)

It'd be ridiculously easy for Apple to implement a check to make sure the card has 512MB RAM. You are right -- not one line of code, but it's not hard at all. Heck, they've already gone to far greater lengths removing Intel Atom support (http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/09/11/11/1336200/OS-X-Update-Officially-Kills-Intel-Atom-Support).

[Cindori]

It'd be ridiculously easy for Apple to implement a check to make sure the card has 512MB RAM.

so what, someone from hackintosh scene rewrites the driver.


as for atom, you really don't know what you're talking about..
they dropped Atom because it was a chunk of unused code. they added atom support probably because they planned to release a computer with the cpu.
when they changed their minds they removed the code. no point releasing OS versions with alot of unused code.
the above is my personal thought though, I don't work inside Apple. but you can not reasonably believe there is another explanation.
it's like if Apple would add AMD CPU support in 10.6.3, then in 10.6.4 they would remove it. same thing. no reason to go OMG MG THEY R KILLING HACKINTOSHS

[aibo]

you really don't know what you're talking about..


they dropped Atom because it was a chunk of unused code. they added atom support probably because they planned to release a computer with the cpu.
when they changed their minds they removed the code. no point releasing OS versions with alot of unused code.

Speculation on your part.... and you really don't know what you're talking about either, as demonstrated by your "hacked cards are identical to Apple OEM cards" argument.

With the cat and mouse game Apple's been playing with hacked iPhones over the last two years, how can you put it past them to in the future write specific checks for hacked video cards? Especially if the hackintosh community flares up. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean you're safe. I'm surprised they haven't done it already.

[Cindori]

Speculation on your part.... and you really don't know what you're talking about either, as demonstrated by your "hacked cards are identical to Apple OEM cards" argument.

A 512mb flashed card would be, wouldnt it?



With the cat and mouse game Apple's been playing with hacked iPhones over the last two years, how can you put it past them to in the future write specific checks for hacked video cards? Especially if the hackintosh community flares up. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean you're safe. I'm surprised they haven't done it already.


Because Apple loses alot of money from Hacked iPhones = Free apps.
Mac Pro's are 0.1% of sold Macs or less, look at how long it took to fix the critical Audio Bug. Apple does not care for Mac Pro users or their monkeybusiness with Flashing cards.

You have to understand that blocking out a GPU would essentially mean as much as blocking out 3rd party Hard Drives, RAID cards or whatever. It's not something Apple would desire. In the end they would lose on it by selling less Machines because their so called Expandable Mac just became an iMac without a screen. Essentially feeding the hackintosh scene!

I'm not saying Hackintoshes will be safe forever, they probably will get hunted by Apple at some point. However, I do belive the hackers always win. You can see that on the iPhone scene. There are hackers out there that are as skilled if not more, then the Apple programmers. Just look at netkas and his work.

[Fiete5401]

Speculation on your part.... and you really don't know what you're talking about either, as demonstrated by your "hacked cards are identical to Apple OEM cards" argument.

Dude, obviously you have no clue who you are talking to. Cindori is the grandmaster in flashing ATi-cards. He developed a ONE-CLICK-solution so everyone can use a pc-ati-gpu in a Mac Pro!
The atom-case is something completely different compared to what we are talking about here. It was unused code Apple removed. Nonfunctional-Atom-based netbooks were collateral damage, nothing else.

[mcxreflex]

Are there a cheap possibility for mid powerful single slot graphic card for a 1.1 mac pro?

[Cindori]

You have to chose between:


ATI 2600HD (dunno if this is sold separately)

ATI X1900 (known to get clogged with dust, also very old and still expensive)

Nvidia 8800GT (no longer sold by Apple, note that you need the 2006 version)

ATI 3870 (known to have loud fan, pretty expensive and still old

ATI 4870 (choose between flashing a PC card for ~$130 or buying Apples for ~300$)

ATI 4890 (most powerful single Mac Pro 2006 card, requires flashing and a driver, see my signature)


cards are listed by performance (to my best knowledge)

prices are for you to find out. most cards need to be found 2nd hand (ebay)

[mcxreflex]

Thank you. Geforce 8800 sounds nice. Could you help me with flashing? I added you in msn. I'll looking for the perfect card.

[Cindori]

The 8800 is very hard to flash, because some cards come with a small ROM chip, so you can not fit the firmware. For flashing I advice going the 4870 or 4890 route. Those are the only one I'm able to provide support on, too.

you're free to add me on msn for questions but it's highly unlikely they have not been answered already in the gigantic Ultimate Thread: 4890 and Race to dump 4870 ROM threads.

[Hmac]

How about a 4870 made by Apple?

How about a GeForce 8800 GT?

I had the 8800GT in my 1,1 Mac Pro - replace the 1900 with it. It was a yawner for sure, waste of money. I just recently replaced the 8800GT with the Apple 4870, plus the $99 dual link adapter (running 30" ACD x 2). That made for a huge improvement in both FCE and COD4, especially COD4 PC version via BootCamp. I paid more, I know, but it was hassle-free. Completely plug and play. All I had to do was find and install the right PC driver. It even got rid of the green sparklies I'd been suffering with for years.

[mcxreflex]

ok thank you. Atis look nice but with the active cooler the card needs a double-wight-slot.
Can I use 3 cards in my Mac Pro? Afaik that possible what do you mean?

[Rankrotten]

I'm running the Mac 3870 in my first gen Mac Pro, had it for a year since the x1900 crapped out but it is dog slow in Aperture 3, don't know if it is even supported by the app at all?

I take it the flashed 4890 will generally work much better but is it supported within Apple's pro apps?

[Hmac]

Am I correct in assuming that the flashed PC versions of the 4870 and 4890 won't support dual-link for the second port under OSX?

[TheSpaz]

a 4870 does not saturade 2.5GT/s. a 5870 does not even do that...

oh yes in 1 app Mudbox but basically not.


Does not matter anyway since 2006 mac pro can only run ANY card at 2.5GT/s


flashed 4870 has double VRAM and higher clock and will eat apple's card anyday, trufact.

It's as much as 200 $ more for apples card.

get right card and it's a 1 click job with my app.

also, Apple withdraws the 4870 warranty If you use it in a 2006.
you can let apple fu_ck you over completely if you want to. I'm just saying.

Yes, Apple deems the warranty void if you put the 4870 in a 2006 Mac Pro... however, when my 4870 broke, I took it to my local Mac repair shop/Certified dealer and they contacted Apple and then Apple agreed to replace the card for free. So, you'd have better luck going through a certified dealer than contacting Apple directly yourself.

[TheSpaz]

The PC version of the 4870 doesn't have a mini displayport. That's the only difference between the Apple card and the generic card.

Plus, if you use a PC 4870, once it's flashed, you don't have to touch it ever again. Also, as long as you get a 4870, you don't have to patch any OS files. So any Apple OS that supports the Apple 4870, will also support the flashed PC 4870.

If you buy a PC 4890, then you'll have to patch a kext file every time Apple issues an OS update. The screen won't go black, but you'll lose Quartz Extreme if you don't patch the kext file. It's really just a text string change to tell Mac OS X that the card you're using is not a 4890, but a 4870. It's just an identification thing.

[Bosman]

I have a MacPro 1,1 with the original Nvidia Ge7300GT card.

I would like to update it with a better graphics card.

I saw the threads about the option of flashing a PC edition of the ATI 4870 card, and this seemed like a good option. But it seems to be important to get a specific type of ATI4870, and all the ones suggested in the various threads are now showing delisted / out of stock, and on 2nd hand market you can't be sure of the type of card so easily.

So are there other cards I could use that will work with the 1,1?

I'm not interested in state-of-the-art (nor do I have that kind of budget), but something that will improve the speed of graphics to allow photo / video to work better.

Thanks in advance for any help.

I had the ATI 4870 mac/pc version and it hummed like a jet airplane! I saw no improvement over the stock version for editing photos and such so it was a waste of money like my Nvidia GTX 285. It kicks ass for FPS but uhhh i am not seeing it be used much. Time to invest in Mass 2 or some other games. :)

[Hmac]

The PC version of the 4870 doesn't have a mini displayport. That's the only difference between the Apple card and the generic card.




So, both DVI ports on a flashed PC-version 4870 will support dual-link under OSX? I know they're both dual-link on the PC side, but what about after it's flashed and running under OSX? I need to drive two 30" ACD's.

[TheSpaz]

So, both DVI ports on a flashed PC-version 4870 will support dual-link under OSX? I know they're both dual-link on the PC side, but what about after it's flashed and running under OSX? I need to drive two 30" ACD's.

Ask Cindori. I don't know.

[Cindori]

2nd is single link, yeap prob due to dvi port instead of DP. I wonder how that plays out on 5000 series cards. they probably will use same design as PC cards since those already have a DP port.

[Max(IT)]

I'm running the Mac 3870 in my first gen Mac Pro, had it for a year since the x1900 crapped out but it is dog slow in Aperture 3, don't know if it is even supported by the app at all?

I take it the flashed 4890 will generally work much better but is it supported within Apple's pro apps?

Do you know for sure that Aperture 3 is GPU-accelerated ?
I didn't know ...

[Rankrotten]

Do you know for sure that Aperture 3 is GPU-accelerated ?
I didn't know ...

Yes as was Aperture 1 and 2 which uses the GPU for all the heavy lifting work. Version 3 additionally makes use of OpenCL and GCD on supported GPUs but the 3870 is not on Apple's Aperture list.

[Max(IT)]

Yes as was Aperture 1 and 2 which uses the GPU for all the heavy lifting work. Version 3 additionally makes use of OpenCL and GCD on supported GPUs but the 3870 is not on Apple's Aperture list.

thank you, and do you have a link to the list of supported GPU ?
I'm using Aperture 2 with a Mini and a MBP (both have a 9400M) and it's working pretty well.
Are these GPU supported ?

[Rankrotten]

thank you, and do you have a link to the list of supported GPU ?
I'm using Aperture 2 with a Mini and a MBP (both have a 9400M) and it's working pretty well.
Are these GPU supported ?

Yes your 9400M is supported. Switch to the 9600M GT in the MBP for better performance.

I've answered my own question re the 3870 re it's not OpenCL compliant according to this apple forum post so it will be a 4870 or 4890 for me now.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=11118794&#11118794

[Max(IT)]

Yes your 9400M is supported. Switch to the 9600M GT in the MBP for better performance.

I've answered my own question re the 3870 re it's not OpenCL compliant according to this apple forum post so it will be a 4870 or 4890 for me now.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=11118794&#11118794

I can't find any list of supported gpu on Apple website ...