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MacBytes
Sep 1, 2004, 01:19 PM
Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: Commentary: Apple\'s missed opportunity (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20040901141935)
Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

NAG
Sep 1, 2004, 01:42 PM
So Apple missed the boat by giving customers the option to put in wireless and letting third parties handle the tv tuner stuff. I wonder what we would be hear if Apple included the expense of Airport and bluetooth standard and killed Elgato by integrating a tv tuner. Oh yeah, people would just love that.

wordmunger
Sep 1, 2004, 01:44 PM
No one wants a TV tuner in their computer. It's idiotic. People watch TV on their TVs and compute on their computers. Who pays $1300 for a 17-inch TV? For that money, you can get a 48-inch big-screen TV.

nacl99
Sep 1, 2004, 01:48 PM
I still don't understand why you need wireless in a desktop, even though the G5 is nice an small to move around, I thought the point of a desktop is it doesn't move around, so I would think most people would wire it to the network, why do people bitch these don't have built in airport, I'd be annoyed for having to pay for it.

Besides, name ONE PC that has built in wireless? its not that usefull

wordmunger
Sep 1, 2004, 01:51 PM
I still don't understand why you need wireless in a desktop, even though the G5 is nice an small to move around, I thought the point of a desktop is it doesn't move around, so I would think most people would wire it to the network, why do people bitch these don't have built in airport, I'd be annoyed for having to pay for it.

Besides, name ONE PC that has built in wireless? its not that usefull

Well, it's useful if you need it (for instance, my MP3 server in the living room -- didn't want to add extra wires to that room), but I agree with you, in general, you don't need it. Why should everyone pay when only a few people need it?

nacl99
Sep 1, 2004, 02:14 PM
Well, it's useful if you need it (for instance, my MP3 server in the living room -- didn't want to add extra wires to that room), but I agree with you, in general, you don't need it. Why should everyone pay when only a few people need it?

You could always put the mp3 server on wireless, connected to a wired network that you computer would be on, still no wires where it is hard to run wires.

My personal setup is 1 desktop wired, a wired tivo, 2 wireless laptops, and a airport express. All very easy to setup, and I'm not wasting wireless on things that never move.

ajkst1
Sep 1, 2004, 03:01 PM
Where is the connectivity to support bottom-up home networking? While Apple does great business in selling AirPort cards and AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi base stations, this should not have stopped it from building Wi-Fi directly into every new iMac--even Bluetooth would have been a start.

Better still would have been a software option to turn this machine into a full Wi-Fi access point: Intel's Grantsdale chipset already promises this functionality for PC owners. The lack of this connectivity means that Apple has missed an opportunity to build on its AirPort Express foundations and rule the roost in bottom-up networking.


$80 + $45 = $125 to make it so, and give you all the functionality you're asking for. In answer to his second point, there already is. There has been since the very first version of Airport. My principal had it at his house with his G4/450 tower and his G4/667 Powerbook. 2 years ago. Apple already runs the market on simple wireless networking and it just gets better with time.

Read the specs before you start writing.

Viv
Sep 1, 2004, 03:11 PM
maybe I missed something but they said no bluetooth in the article but I thought it came with a wireless keybaurd and mouse

How does that work then?

Viv

macridah
Sep 1, 2004, 03:39 PM
I agree, why make people pay for a wireless card if they don't need it. It's important that the iMac has the option of having one. Apple already recently drop the prices on the air extreme card.

And it's too early to have a TV tuner on every computer.

nagromme
Sep 1, 2004, 03:43 PM
Apple missed the chance to stay "way ahead" not including expensive stuff that only a few want, and that others don't make standard either. Who would pay for those things? Apple or the buyer? Some "opportunity" :)

"Better still would have been a software option to turn this machine into a full Wi-Fi access point"

That's been built into OS X--and easily--for some time.

Why is the iMac suddenly only competing with specialized Media Center PCs? TV is a MUST now?

Good ol' CNET/ZD/News.com.

(Re Bluetooth: it's an option. Otherwise the mouse/keyboard are wired.)

space2go
Sep 1, 2004, 03:48 PM
I bet the exact same author had written a flaming rant about apples stupidity had they not "missed" that "opportunity". :D

Porchland
Sep 1, 2004, 04:10 PM
I still don't understand why you need wireless in a desktop.

It's a culture thing. I expected the iMac would have built-in wireless because Apple has a culture of smooth lines and clean appearances. A 10/100 coming out the back of your computer is just one more cord.

I see the Apple image as a stark, clean surface with an iMac, a keyboard, a mouse, a printer and no wires except for power. After the AirPort Express announcement, I expected Apple would be nudging the consumer to view wireless -- not wired -- as the default.

Ultimately, though, I think it was a price-point decision.

granex
Sep 1, 2004, 04:37 PM
Here is a quick question that relates to this article. Let's say that I want to have a wireless access point in my house. If I hook an iMac with an Airport card to my cable modem via ethernet, can the iMac's Airport card serve as an wireless point that can be accessed by my laptop, or do I need a separate wireless hub? If so, then I obviously don't need the hub, if not then I shouldn't bother with the Airport card in the first place.

bousozoku
Sep 1, 2004, 04:45 PM
I would definitely have expected WiFi and Bluetooth built-in, not as options, simply because the machine can be wall-mounted on a VESA-compatible mounting. Is it a missed opportunity? No. However, if they go to CompUSA, they probably won't be getting Bluetooth since it can't be installed by the user.

Personal Video Recorder missing? Yes. Is it necessary? For fewer than 1 percent of the buying population, maybe, and for the rest, no.

What I see as a missed opportunity is a gaming iMac: Radeon 9800XT and 64-bit processor with half-speed bus (normal on the PowerMac) complete with 4 GB RAM, and a high-speed hard drive. Will the iMac miss out on sales because of that? Not too much.

jdhuskey
Sep 1, 2004, 05:25 PM
This is one of the most ridiculous articles... surprised it wasn't written by Rob Enderle. These PC journalists NEVER do their homework regarding Macs. They should be dragged into the street, then whipped and beat every time they publish ludicrous articles like this. People that read that article will believe several pieces of misinformation. I have one of the 20" cinema displays which look almost identical to the new iMacs, and every single Firewire and USB port on the back is being used and I never even notice the cables.

As someone else pointed out, if I'm going to spend that kind of money for a dvr and tv, I'm gonna buy a TiVo and a freaking behemoth TV, not 17" sitting in an entertainment center in my living room where it's difficult to use as a computer, which is what it IS!

Honestly, if I bought one, I'd want the Airport card in it, 'cause it's so compact and easy to move, I'd take it to the porch and work outside sometimes (until I finally breakdown and get an iBook or PowerBook), but make Airport standard? No way. Given that it's a desktop, and most won't need it, why should Apple want to increase the price or absorb the extra cost? Just let people choose for themselves. I thought the PC folks were all about CHOICE.

It's just a stupid article and it aggravated the hell out of me.

LimeiBook86
Sep 1, 2004, 05:45 PM
Jeez, If you want an AirPort Extreme card for 802.11b or 802.11b get it, it's only $75 or so. You can even get a USB adapter if you want.

If you want a TV Tuner, get a FireWire or USB one from EyeTV or ForMac. I mean we all herd at the expo that the Mac is not cluttered, which is true. What is in the computer is only what you need.

There is no more space for anything else. There is no need for it if you don't want it. That's the beauty of having FireWire 400 and USB 2.0. If you want a TV Tuner and Wireless card - go get one, nobody is stopping you.

God I hate these stupid reporters.... :mad:

<sigh>

2GMario
Sep 1, 2004, 05:59 PM
its funny, cause some articles are written good, and others (such as this) are just crap

not including wifi and not including bluetooth are not only cost issues but marketing issues. its easier to advertise the new imac for 1299 (not sure on the price) and then, if the customer wants to, add on the extra $80 for wifi and what ever it is for bluetooth

there are also other keyboard that are bluetooth that are better. if u wanna stay with the all white everything matches look, get the apple keyboard. personally, i hate my apple keyboard that came with my dual 1.8ghz g5 and would use a logitech any day. i use my apple keyboard to keep with the apple look. its a sacrafice for appearance. (my problem with the apple keyboard is the keys are to stiff. other than that, its fine)

my father is in the market for a new pc, 100% gonna be a new mac, and hel probably get this new imac. being a mechanical engineer, it may be in his interest to machine a wall mount, seeing how the desk in the family room (where it will go) is very small.

and on the other note of the tv... my desk is long, very long, over 10 feet. i work in the basement, and i face a 42 inch high definition hitachi tv behind my desk. i've used tv cards in the past, and i find, i have to much **** running / windows open to even see the tv small, let alone at a respectable size

If i had money to blow, i would consider buying a imac specifically for pvr reasons, but i would not use it as my primary pc, and it would be located near my tv with svideo or rgb if available.

anyways, i once was a pc user, and a blind pc user is the worst to rate a imac with. if u want a tv card and all the bull ****, get a g5 tower. thats what its there for. this all in 1 imac is for someone who is not nessecerally a power user, wants someting that looks good with a small foot print and somewhat cheap. not someone who will be recording video, editing, etc... thats why theres a PRO line.

-Mario

nagromme
Sep 1, 2004, 06:17 PM
Here is a quick question that relates to this article. Let's say that I want to have a wireless access point in my house. If I hook an iMac with an Airport card to my cable modem via ethernet, can the iMac's Airport card serve as an wireless point that can be accessed by my laptop, or do I need a separate wireless hub? If so, then I obviously don't need the hub, if not then I shouldn't bother with the Airport card in the first place.

You're all set--no hub needed. Any Mac with Airport can act as a base station. The decision's really a matter of what's most convenient for your setup, and whether you'll keep your Mac on/awake.

CaptainHaddock
Sep 1, 2004, 07:21 PM
"If I hook an iMac with an Airport card to my cable modem via ethernet, can the iMac's Airport card serve as an wireless point that can be accessed by my laptop, or do I need a separate wireless hub?"

Not only can your Mac function as a wireless hub for other wi-fi equipped computers and devices, but if your Mac has Bluetooth, it can even share the network connection with other Bluetooth devices! So your friend could surf the Internet and answer email on his PDF or phone if he's near your computer.

emw
Sep 1, 2004, 08:06 PM
You're all set--no hub needed. Any Mac with Airport can act as a base station. The decision's really a matter of what's most convenient for your setup, and whether you'll keep your Mac on/awake.

How do you do it? First, make sure both Airport and Built-in Ethernet are active ports in your Network preferences pane.

Then, go to Sharing and click on the Internet tab. See the screen grab below.

As nagromme states, if your Mac goes to sleep or is shutdown, the internet connection is lost, though. You can get access points fairly cheaply if this is/becomes an issue.

LimeiBook86
Sep 2, 2004, 01:05 AM
its funny, cause some articles are written good, and others (such as this) are just crap...

...and on the other note of the tv... my desk is long, very long, over 10 feet. i work in the basement, and i face a 42 inch high definition hitachi tv behind my desk. i've used tv cards in the past, and i find, i have to much **** running / windows open to even see the tv small, let alone at a respectable size

-Mario


I totally agree. I have a TV tuner/AV in in my old Mac 7500 and 5200/75 LC. TV tuners are a nice thing to have but they are a bit of a hassle.

A TV is always there - always ready to run. A TV tuner in a computer is different, you need to start up the program, configure your settings if you want - and then watch TV. I find that if I wanted to watch TV through my computer it's difficult - that's probably because it's an older computer but that doesn't matter that much.

When I want to watch TV I press the button on the remote and sit down. I don't want to have to fiddle with a bunch of things just so I can watch a show.

If I really wanted to save a show I'll record it on my VCR and import it to the computer later if I needed to. Having a TV tuner bundled in a computer will just cost more money. Get a G5 and pop in a PCI card, heck even some places like Mac Mall and Mac Warehouse (CDW) were bundling free PCI TV Tuners with the computer.

If you want your TV tuner - go get it. :cool:

shamino
Sep 2, 2004, 01:28 PM
I agree with what everybody else has written about the article and it's idiot author. One other thing grabbed my attention as well:

They benefit from a considerable increase in processor power. By using 1.6GHz and 1.8GHz G5 processors, Apple engineers have created a machine capable of coping with demanding digital hub tasks, such as tackling consumers' increasing usage of digital audio, photo and video content. (U.S. broadband households are three times more likely than U.S. dial-up households to download music or videos or listen to streaming audio.)
Does this person seriously believe you need a multi-GHz 64-bit system in order to download music/videos from the internet? If he does, then he obviously believes in the Microsoft mantra, where you need the fastest computer on earth in order to simply display a desktop.

My Quadra 840av (40MHz 68040) has enough horsepower to download files from the internet at the full speed of a DSL line (or at most of a cable modem's speed). It also has enough power to play nearly any audio file it comes across, and many video files (if the resolution isn't too high.)

A machine as powerful as a G5 system is only necessary for audio and video production. Downloading and playback has been possible on everything sold in at least the last five years.