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MacRumors
Mar 4, 2010, 12:30 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/03/04/fortune-names-apple-worlds-most-admired-company/)

In the 2010 edition (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/mostadmired/2010/index.html) of its annual ranking of "World's Most Admired Companies", Fortune placed Apple (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/mostadmired/2010/snapshots/670.html) at the top of the list for the third year in a row and by the highest margin ever in the survey's ten-year history. Apple was followed in the rankings by Google, Berkshire Hathaway, Johnson & Johnson, and Amazon.What makes Apple so admired? Product, product, product. This is the company that changed the way we do everything from buy music to design products to engage with the world around us. Its track record for innovation and fierce consumer loyalty translates into tremendous respect across business' highest ranks.

As BMW CEO Norbert Reithofer puts it, "The whole world held its breath before the iPad was announced. That's brand management at its very best."Reithofer also ranked Apple CEO Steve Jobs as his most admired CEO. And beyond the overall crown, Apple took the top spot in the sub-category of Innovation while placing second in People Management. The company was also recognized as fourth in Quality of Products/Services and in a tie for sixth with Amazon in Management Quality.

Fortune's rankings were based on a poll of 4,200 corporate executives, directors, and industry analysts.

Article Link: Fortune Again Names Apple World's Most Admired Company (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/03/04/fortune-names-apple-worlds-most-admired-company/)



Becordial
Mar 4, 2010, 12:42 PM
I admire lots of companies including Apple but its time to hand it over.

Fortune need to realise that if there is no new winners in the list it is a lot like ignoring the F1 because you know Ferrari can win it year-on-year. It's not newsworthy anymore Fortune.

mygoldens
Mar 4, 2010, 12:44 PM
This is all relative.

I am not buying this one, it has to be bribed or more HYPE!

Shasterball
Mar 4, 2010, 12:47 PM
As BMW CEO Norbert Reithofer puts it, "The whole world held its breath before the iPad was announced. That's brand management at its very best."

And after it was announced, the whole world let out a sigh signifying a letdown...

ValSalva
Mar 4, 2010, 12:49 PM
Google is going to drop like a stone in this type of ranking in the coming years when their dodgy privacy practices and Microsoft-like behavior are exposed.

Disc Golfer
Mar 4, 2010, 12:49 PM
It amazes me how much the internet is utilized for complaining.

boncellis
Mar 4, 2010, 12:50 PM
Yes! I live for threads like this. My productivivty is tanking already...

Being admired by other executives is very different than being admired by the public, although Apple's recent success seems to indicate that the public admires it too.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 12:52 PM
This is all relative.

I am not buying this one, it has to be bribed or more HYPE!

Looks like Apple managed to bribe EVERYONE, EVERY YEAR.

And the hype with Apple is always backed up by substance.

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 12:54 PM
Uh oh, Apple praise? Unleash the trolls!

How could it not be Microsoft? The injustice of it all...

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 12:54 PM
More good news about Apple means more trolls in the thread.

lbjsong
Mar 4, 2010, 12:55 PM
I admired them too.
but gotta focus on hardwares too, not just softwares.
plus.. release mbp and 13" with anti glare

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 01:00 PM
More good news about Apple means more trolls in the thread.

Just another opportunity to update the Ignore list. ;)

NorrisKillsKids
Mar 4, 2010, 01:01 PM
Only an ignorant person would deny Apple the consistent accolades they get. Well deserved whether you're a fan of their products or not.

Jayomat
Mar 4, 2010, 01:10 PM
People like apple not because its more expensive, but because not everyone has it.

more expensive -> not everyone has it.. a ferrari is expensive, "that's" because not everyone has it.. by your logic, I must like a Jaguar XK8, because not everyone has it...your statement makes no sense at all, sorry.. granted, there are some people who judge things by this logic, but I don't think it's the majority..

(BTW: when I bought my first mac 2,5 years ago, I bought it because I wanted to know "what it's all about"... and VISTA...)

eawmp1
Mar 4, 2010, 01:11 PM
Guess this means I'll be able to read Fortune on my iPad for free (subsidized by Apple).

cvaldes
Mar 4, 2010, 01:16 PM
It amazes me how much the internet is utilized for complaining.
I'm convinced that they are people who are bitter they didn't buy AAPL five years ago at $44/share and cringe when they see it at $210 today.

cvaldes
Mar 4, 2010, 01:19 PM
People like apple not because its more expensive, but because not everyone has it.
Yes, that's the same way people feel about my wife, Morgan Fairchild.

Eidorian
Mar 4, 2010, 01:22 PM
Where should I set my expectations of Apple?

cvaldes
Mar 4, 2010, 01:23 PM
Where should I set my expectations of Apple?
1 year target estimate: $275

Eidorian
Mar 4, 2010, 01:24 PM
1 year target estimate: $275What does stock have to do with my expectations?

cvaldes
Mar 4, 2010, 01:25 PM
What does stock have to do with my expectations?
Well then, please be more specific.

As an AAPL shareholder and occasional Apple customer, that is one of my expectations. I expect Apple to competently execute their overall business strategy, meet their goals, which in turn will increase shareholder value to that $275 price point for AAPL one year hence.

DrStrange
Mar 4, 2010, 01:28 PM
Why is Google on that list? 4 years of bowing to Chinese censorship. :confused:

Eidorian
Mar 4, 2010, 01:29 PM
Well then, please be more specific.

As an AAPL shareholder and occasional Apple customer, that is one of my expectations.I've been continually disappointed with their computer line in seeking a replacement for my MacBook. It's to the point where my Late 2007 MacBook is too good at what it does. (I'm already rolling my eyes to that spin fest.) I don't see any incentive from Apple to buy new or more hardware from them short of some sort of critical failure. The applications, concepts, and operating system are endearing but as many have said new hardware doesn't stop my "old" Mac from working.

What do I have to look forward to?

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 01:37 PM
I've been continually disappointed with their computer line in seeking a replacement for my MacBook. It's to the point where my Late 2007 MacBook is too good at what it does. (I'm already rolling my eyes to that spin fest.) I don't see any incentive from Apple to buy new or more hardware from them short of some sort of critical failure. The applications, concepts, and operating system are endearing but as many have said new hardware doesn't stop my "old" Mac from working.

What do I have to look forward to?

I'm not sure. You've backed yourself into quite a corner.

MorphingDragon
Mar 4, 2010, 01:40 PM
Where should I set my expectations of Apple?

Well its easier to automatically assume its ***** because then theres no let down and when somethings really good, it actully brightens you up.

cvaldes
Mar 4, 2010, 01:42 PM
I've been continually disappointed with their computer line in seeking a replacement for my MacBook. It's to the point where my Late 2007 MacBook is too good at what it does. (I'm already rolling my eyes to that spin fest.) I don't see any incentive from Apple to buy new or more hardware from them short of some sort of critical failure. The applications, concepts, and operating system are endearing but as many have said new hardware doesn't stop my "old" Mac from working.

What do I have to look forward to?
I am the satisfied owner of a MacBook Late 2006 model.

Ideally, I will replace this notebook with a quad-core Mac mini. However, I am very happy with my current computer, so I am in no rush to replace it.

Perhaps it's the "half glass empty, half glass full" scenario. I see my glass as half full. Your comments seem to indicate that you see your glass as half empty. I'm not sure if Apple could do anything to make you happy. Ultimately, you will have to decide those expectations yourself and live with them.

Stevamundo
Mar 4, 2010, 01:44 PM
Congratulations Apple! It's well-deserved. :apple:

niuniu
Mar 4, 2010, 01:45 PM
Why is Google on that list? 4 years of bowing to Chinese censorship. :confused:

I think the list is about respect from world leading CEOs, not from tabloid reading parrots.

Thankfully.


-----------------

Great to see Apple, Google and BMW 3 of my favourite large companies high up in the list. BMW really deserve their place, they've done great things the past few years with their efficient dynamics and the 1 series (which I ended up buying in Sept 09, felt good to buy a premium car that was environment conscious) - they really deserve a lot of respect for breaking ahead of the premium pack. Even though I have several disappointments with Apple recently, they lead so far ahead of their competitors, that even with their flaws they are no.1.

Eidorian
Mar 4, 2010, 01:45 PM
Well its easier to automatically assume its ***** because then theres no let down and when somethings really good, it actully brightens you up.

Perhaps it's the "half glass empty, half glass full" scenario. I see my glass as half full. Your comments seem to indicate that you see your glass as half empty.I've set my expectations to be very pessimistic and still Apple hasn't managed to hit above that mark.

I don't know where to set my expectations of Apple anymore. I can't go any lower and they consistently have been hitting lower. If I set them higher I still am disappointed. I set them so low that nearly anything from Apple should be enough to brighten me up but it hasn't.

For me it's stagnant and boring.

DrStrange
Mar 4, 2010, 01:47 PM
Google bowing to chinese censorship is a well-known fact.


I think the list is about respect from world leading CEOs, not from tabloid reading parrots.

Thankfully.


-----------------

Great to see Apple, Google and BMW 3 of my favourite large companies high up in the list. BMW really deserve their place, they've done great things the past few years with their efficient dynamics and the 1 series (which I ended up buying in Sept 09, felt good to buy a premium car that was environment conscious) - they really deserve a lot of respect for breaking ahead of the premium pack. Even though I have several disappointments with Apple recently, they lead so far ahead of their competitors, that even with their flaws they are no.1.

Becordial
Mar 4, 2010, 01:49 PM
Guess this means I'll be able to read Fortune on my iPad for free (subsidized by Apple).

Probably true! (except for the part about Apple subsidising anything)

ValSalva
Mar 4, 2010, 01:50 PM
I've set my expectations to be very pessimistic and still Apple hasn't managed to hit above that mark.

I don't know where to set my expectations of Apple anymore. I can't go any lower and they consistently have been hitting lower. If I set them higher I still am disappointed. I set them so low that nearly anything from Apple should be enough to brighten me up but it hasn't.

For me it's stagnant and boring.

Maybe computers are not for you. The Dells, HPs, and Acers of the world are certainly going to bring you disappointment. And that's years of experience talking.

kernkraft
Mar 4, 2010, 01:53 PM
1 year target estimate: $275

You cannot be serious. For your family's sake, please, do not do it! It's not going to happen!

Eidorian
Mar 4, 2010, 01:54 PM
Maybe computers are not for you.Do you have any proof of this?

jav6454
Mar 4, 2010, 01:56 PM
I've set my expectations to be very pessimistic and still Apple hasn't managed to hit above that mark.

I don't know where to set my expectations of Apple anymore. I can't go any lower and they consistently have been hitting lower. If I set them higher I still am disappointed. I set them so low that nearly anything from Apple should be enough to brighten me up but it hasn't.

For me it's stagnant and boring.

Agreed, the last 'exciting' thing they did was add the nvidia chopset to their product line.

After that there is nothing really 'wow' like the iPhone was. The iPad is just an overgrown iPhone meant to fill a gap in product lines. It's nice but again Apple aimed low (no cam, 16GB min, a gut upgrade and ebooks). The price is relatively high for what it does, $100 less would do very favorably.

As for the iPod line, that has hit a saturation point were sales have started to slow and Apple isn't comining with a better hardware yet. Not that there is much you can add.

Admired I feel in the sense of how well it's doing financially. Innovatively, not that much any more.

dernhelm
Mar 4, 2010, 01:57 PM
I've set my expectations to be very pessimistic and still Apple hasn't managed to hit above that mark.

I don't know where to set my expectations of Apple anymore. I can't go any lower and they consistently have been hitting lower. If I set them higher I still am disappointed. I set them so low that nearly anything from Apple should be enough to brighten me up but it hasn't.

For me it's stagnant and boring.

What you may need is to take a break from a site like MR where you have obviously spent a lot of time posting (G3, indeed). It may be that you are simply burned out on all things Apple. And you are now projecting your burn out onto the companies products, where just nothing is bright and shiny enough.

cvaldes
Mar 4, 2010, 01:58 PM
You cannot be serious. For your family's sake, please, do not do it! It's not going to happen!
What's wrong with $275 in a year? It's doable.

Plus, I invested in AAPL five years ago (I think the cost per share was $46 for me). It's not like I'm buying today at $210. Even if I was wrong and the share price stayed flat, I'm already up 350%.

ValSalva
Mar 4, 2010, 01:59 PM
Do you have any proof of this?

Only your posts. Like others have said, you seem burned out. It happens to the best of us.

cvaldes
Mar 4, 2010, 02:04 PM
I've set my expectations to be very pessimistic and still Apple hasn't managed to hit above that mark.

I don't know where to set my expectations of Apple anymore. I can't go any lower and they consistently have been hitting lower. If I set them higher I still am disappointed. I set them so low that nearly anything from Apple should be enough to brighten me up but it hasn't.

For me it's stagnant and boring.
You sound depressed. You might want to seek professional help.

As I touched on earlier, the market has been very pleased with Apple over the past few years. This survey also bears witness that other business leaders find Apple's execution to be meritorious.

My guess is that you are living a bit in a dreamworld with impossibly high standards, possibly in a land where the laws of physics or economics of consumer technology manufacturing do not apply. Do you apply the same expectations to other parts of your life? Do you feel that you should be dating a Sports Illustrated swimsuit model?

In the long run, no one or nothing can change the way you feel. You are the only person who can change the way you feel. That's a tad philosophical for this bboard, but essentially, that's life. Your world is what you make of it.

My advice to you: stop visiting tech gossip sites and do a little soul searching.

Eidorian
Mar 4, 2010, 02:06 PM
Agreed, the last 'exciting' thing they did was add the nvidia chopset to their product line.

After that there is nothing really 'wow' like the iPhone was. The iPad is just an overgrown iPhone meant to fill a gap in product lines. It's nice but again Apple aimed low (no cam, 16GB min, a gut upgrade and ebooks). The price is relatively high for what it does, $100 less would do very favorably.

As for the iPod line, that has hit a saturation point were sales have started to slow and Apple isn't comining with a better hardware yet. Not that there is much you can add.

Admired I feel in the sense of how well it's doing financially. Innovatively, not that much any more.MCP79A was amazing. Now it's nearly the entire line today, still.

I don't have a need for an iPhone but that's not to say that I don't understand the benefits of such a product for others. I would rather give Apple my money over the alternatives but they haven't enticed me to do so over that I already own.

I've already owned several as well iPods but I never keep them for more than a few months before once again getting tired of them.

What you may need is to take a break from a site like MR where you have obviously spent a lot of time posting (G3, indeed). It may be that you are simply burned out on all things Apple. And you are now projecting your burn out onto the companies products, where just nothing is bright and shiny enough.Don't worry. I have Linux and Windows to keep me entertained. I'm patiently waiting for an update to the M11x. Christmas looks good this year.

I have enough books to read as it is. :p

You sound depressed. You might want to seek professional help.

As I touched on earlier, the market has been very pleased with Apple over the past few years. This survey also bears witness that other business leaders find Apple's execution to be meritorious.

My guess is that you are living a bit in a dreamworld with impossibly high standards, possibly in a land where the laws of physics or economics of consumer technology manufacturing do not apply. Do you apply the same expectations to other parts of your life? Do you feel that you should be dating a Sports Illustrated swimsuit model?

In the long run, no one or nothing can change the way you feel. You are the only person who can change the way you feel. That's a tad philosophical for this bboard, but essentially, that's life. Your world is what you make of it.

My advice to you: stop visiting tech gossip sites and do a little soul searching.You're looking too deeply into my hobby. Yes, striving to have an encyclopedic knowledge of past and bleeding edge computer hardware and software is only a hobby for me.

You'll see me get tough in some of the gaming threads on hardware. Paint me as a hardcore gamer if you must but I do have a job as well.

kernkraft
Mar 4, 2010, 02:14 PM
What's wrong with $275 in a year? It's doable.

Plus, I invested in AAPL five years ago (I think the cost per share was $46 for me). It's not like I'm buying today at $210. Even if I was wrong and the share price stayed flat, I'm already up 350%.


Are you sure that you really invested and you didn't see that in a film? I bought some in the summer but around Christmas, it was getting very intense. I knew that the tablet was coming out but in the end I just didn't want to leave it to Apple. You never know, what sort of capital mistake they make with their product launches. If the hype did not push the price further up, nothing will. Not even an extremely successful launch within a month.

Besides... You should have sold after two years and buy something else that performed better. In the last three years, you were almost sitting on a lost asset.

MorphingDragon
Mar 4, 2010, 02:18 PM
I've set my expectations to be very pessimistic and still Apple hasn't managed to hit above that mark.

I don't know where to set my expectations of Apple anymore. I can't go any lower and they consistently have been hitting lower. If I set them higher I still am disappointed. I set them so low that nearly anything from Apple should be enough to brighten me up but it hasn't.

For me it's stagnant and boring.

You ever considered joining the AMD or nVidia forums???

Wanna talk Anime? :D

boncellis
Mar 4, 2010, 02:19 PM
Wow, this turned into a support group meeting for Eidorian rather quickly. I was really expecting more trolling and flaming back and forth.

I admit I'm a little disappointed.

On a serious note, is there a reason Apple only has one Core i5 machine available? Are those chips really that expensive, or am I missing something?

dernhelm
Mar 4, 2010, 02:22 PM
Don't worry. I have Linux and Windows to keep me entertained. I'm patiently waiting for an update to the M11x. Christmas looks good this year.

I have enough books to read as it is. :p


I really wasn't being totally facetious. I'm sure you are a well rounded person and all, but I've been here a long time and seen more than one person burn out on these boards. It isn't always pretty... :)

I do want to ask about your experience with the M11x. For me, it's more clunky than I like, and I find the design to be a bit garish (or maybe I'm just a prude). But I was wondering how you felt about the overall I/O performance on the machine (drive subsystem / memory subsystem / etc).

MMX
Mar 4, 2010, 02:25 PM
Where should I set my expectations of Apple?

Poor thing.

Eidorian
Mar 4, 2010, 02:31 PM
You ever considered joining the AMD or nVidia forums???

Wanna talk Anime? :DThis is MacRumors and I come here because it is Macrumors. Not that I'm against posting in an anime thread when on does show up in Community Discussion or elsewhere.

I have other boards that sate that topic if I want to discuss it.

I really wasn't being totally facetious. I'm sure you are a well rounded person and all, but I've been here a long time and seen more than one person burn out on these boards. It isn't always pretty... :)I appreciate the concern. I'll admit that I do tend to go overboard. Perhaps it's just from experience. Sometimes you realize something that others don't and it can be terrifying.

I do want to ask about your experience with the M11x. For me, it's more clunky than I like, and I find the design to be a bit garish (or maybe I'm just a prude). But I was wondering how you felt about the overall I/O performance on the machine (drive subsystem / memory subsystem / etc).Sadly, I don't own one just yet. I'll admit the intakes and lighting are token Alienware design and not the minimalist lines we see on our MacBooks.

Hardware Heaven (http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews.php?reviewid=924&pageid=1) does an extensive and nearly obsessive review of it. I just want an Arrandale version with nVidia Optimus. Hence my wait until Christmas for one.

My MacBook and OS X are very endearing to me. I'll just be sad when something forces it to stop working so well.

MorphingDragon
Mar 4, 2010, 02:35 PM
This is MacRumors and I come here because it is Macrumors. Not that I'm against posting in an anime thread when on does show up in Community Discussion or elsewhere.

I have other boards that sate that topic if I want to discuss it.

I appreciate the concern. I'll admit that I do tend to go overboard. Perhaps it's just from experience. Sometimes you realize something that others don't and it can be terrifying.

Sadly, I don't own one just yet. I'll admit the intakes and lighting are token Alienware design and not the minimalist lines we see on our MacBooks.

Hardware Heaven (http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews.php?reviewid=924&pageid=1) does an extensive and nearly obsessive review of it. I just want an Arrandale version with nVidia Optimus. Hence my wait until Christmas for one.

My MacBook and OS X are very endearing to me. I'll just be sad when something forces it to stop working so well.

Alienware designs are nice, but the scale of width to height that reminds me of those old Laptops that were practically bricks. I'm a minimalist type of person, so that's naturally repulsive. My websites that I design from hand reflect my minimalism. But they're still artistically sound. My website that Im working on now only uses about 4 colours total.

ivladster
Mar 4, 2010, 02:35 PM
Do you have any proof of this?

LOL, you are the proof.

"Human mind is like an umbrella. It functions best when open" Max Gropius

pbaird00
Mar 4, 2010, 02:39 PM
Interesting, Apple takes #1 in the Computer industry and Adobe in the Software industry... can't we all just get along?

Eidorian
Mar 4, 2010, 02:39 PM
Alienware designs are nice, but they're a bit cluncky for my preferences. Its that clunckyness and cable mess that made me go to Mac in the first place.I'm willing to make those sacrifices to have that much GPU power in an 11.6" notebook. In that form factor you'd normally expect to see an overpriced Atom netbook or just Intel integrated graphics.

ivladster
Mar 4, 2010, 02:39 PM
Wow, this turned into a support group meeting for Eidorian rather quickly. I was really expecting more trolling and flaming back and forth.

I admit I'm a little disappointed.

On a serious note, is there a reason Apple only has one Core i5 machine available? Are those chips really that expensive, or am I missing something?

Well its like buying a Ferrari that can go 300MPH in a 55MPH speed limit zone. What's the point. I guess apple thinks that if everything runs smooth there's no reason to switch to the most powerful, etc.

ivladster
Mar 4, 2010, 02:41 PM
I'm willing to make those sacrifices to have that much GPU power in an 11.6" notebook. In that form factor you'd normally expect to see an overpriced Atom netbook or just Intel integrated graphics.

What do you do on your computer anyway? Or you just want to have the latest and most powerful chips?:confused:

mccldwll
Mar 4, 2010, 02:43 PM
Are you sure that you really invested and you didn't see that in a film? I bought some in the summer but around Christmas, it was getting very intense. I knew that the tablet was coming out but in the end I just didn't want to leave it to Apple. You never know, what sort of capital mistake they make with their product launches. If the hype did not push the price further up, nothing will. Not even an extremely successful launch within a month.

Besides... You should have sold after two years and buy something else that performed better. In the last three years, you were almost sitting on a lost asset.


Clueless troll. Name another stock which has returned post crash/recession to all time highs.

Eidorian
Mar 4, 2010, 02:47 PM
What do you do on your computer anyway? Or you just want to have the latest and most powerful chips?:confused:I fall into the old prosumer market that Apple catered to with the iMac G5 and sub-$2,000 single processor towers. Look at the tower in my signature.

I'm much more well informed than the masses. What's wrong with the desire of better hardware for everyone? It seems to bring up a knee jerk defense of Apple's profit margins or how I'm not in Apple's market. I wasn't the one that decided to be abandoned.

I use my notebook to have OS X and Windows on the road for my IT work. At home I have my home built tower for its upgradability, quiet operation, and raw power. It may just be Handbrake, games, and the occasional video editing but Apple doesn't provide what I want at the price points I want like they did so long ago. I effectively jumped the iMac resale a year ship to buy my Macbook. As I've said it's just too good even when the fans kick to 6200 RPM on two cores.

You should have talked to me back in the year of PowerPC only. That was major suffering. Not that I would have admitted it.

dernhelm
Mar 4, 2010, 02:59 PM
Sadly, I don't own one just yet. I'll admit the intakes and lighting are token Alienware design and not the minimalist lines we see on our MacBooks.

Hardware Heaven (http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews.php?reviewid=924&pageid=1) does an extensive and nearly obsessive review of it. I just want an Arrandale version with nVidia Optimus. Hence my wait until Christmas for one.

My MacBook and OS X are very endearing to me. I'll just be sad when something forces it to stop working so well.

Hey different strokes for different folks. Some people think the Alienware look is "cool". I probably wouldn't get one simply because I'd feel a bit silly opening a laptop like that in a business meeting. I was interested because I know someone who might be interested in one - he does a lot of video/photo/audio editing (windows), and he's always complaining about this laptop drives being too slow, etc.

Right now he has a laptop, but does most of his heavy work on a desktop with very fast RAID 0 array; especially for a scratch drive, or when working with RAW images. He probably wouldn't change that behavior when at home, but he's mentioned several times that he sure would like to get some work done when he's on the road, and the laptop just can't move the bits off the disk fast enough not to drive him nuts (especially when transcoding video). His RAID array isn't very portable, and most portable external HDDs aren't very performant.

Anyway, thanks for the link - I'll take a look.

Eidorian
Mar 4, 2010, 03:12 PM
Hey different strokes for different folks. Some people think the Alienware look is "cool". I probably wouldn't get one simply because I'd feel a bit silly opening a laptop like that in a business meeting. I was interested because I know someone who might be interested in one - he does a lot of video/photo/audio editing (windows), and he's always complaining about this laptop drives being too slow, etc.

Right now he has a laptop, but does most of his heavy work on a desktop with very fast RAID 0 array; especially for a scratch drive, or when working with RAW images. He probably wouldn't change that behavior when at home, but he's mentioned several times that he sure would like to get some work done when he's on the road, and the laptop just can't move the bits off the disk fast enough not to drive him nuts (especially when transcoding video). His RAID array isn't very portable, and most portable external HDDs aren't very performant.

Anyway, thanks for the link - I'll take a look.That sounds like ENVY 15 territory with a SSD for boot and a secondary mechanical disk for storage.

You have to venture into the mobile workstation territory for RAID 0 on a notebook. Otherwise big, expensive SSDs appear to be the other option if size is a factor.

kernkraft
Mar 4, 2010, 03:19 PM
Uh oh, Apple praise? Unleash the trolls!

How could it not be Microsoft? The injustice of it all...

Once you get out of your bubble, you might be shocked to discover that there are other companies too. This globe is not spinning, life is not happening around Apple and Microsoft.

22Hertz
Mar 4, 2010, 03:23 PM
Apple deserves this spot.

This company is a leader not a follower, they care about their employees and have excellent customer service.

I appreciate the fact they don't jump on bandwagons.
They put out hardware that is beautiful, functional, well designed and lasts.
Their products have high resale value because of their business model.

Being an engineer myself I can see why they make certain decisions they do that make so many people upset. Understand you cant put a quad core heater in a thin notebook without enough space for proper cooling, unless you want it to crap out on you 2 years down the road.

There are some things that upset me too, like no real desktop option for a reasonable price, but overall Apple is an American company putting quality and innovation at the top of their priority list and that is a rare quality these days.

cvaldes
Mar 4, 2010, 03:29 PM
Are you sure that you really invested and you didn't see that in a film? I bought some in the summer but around Christmas, it was getting very intense. I knew that the tablet was coming out but in the end I just didn't want to leave it to Apple. You never know, what sort of capital mistake they make with their product launches. If the hype did not push the price further up, nothing will. Not even an extremely successful launch within a month.

Besides... You should have sold after two years and buy something else that performed better. In the last three years, you were almost sitting on a lost asset.
I am pretty sure that I am an AAPL shareholder. They don't send proxy voting documents to non-shareholders. :)

I bought around $46 (split adjusted) in early 2005. Even when AAPL drooped to $88 in March 2009, I was still up nearly 91%. I thought about buying more but in the end, portfolio diversification was more important, so I sunk my money in other things.

Even with the market meltdown, it certainly hasn't been a "lost asset" over the past two years. It was about $120 two years ago and it's sitting at $210 right now which puts it well above the S&P 500 in terms of performance. It has handily outperformed everything else in its market sector.

kernkraft
Mar 4, 2010, 03:52 PM
Clueless troll. Name another stock which has returned post crash/recession to all time highs.

Pointless post.



But Virtus Investment comes to mind between last spring and summer. During the same period, The Blackstone did just as well. When Apple really gained during that last spring/summer, a lot of companies did too.

Incidentally, that was the time to buy Apple too. So did I, but don't say that anybody in their right mind would have considered Apple a very well-performing stock just before that spring. If the guy really owned some shares since 2005, he might have screamed his head off to see his money wasting away in the second half of 2008. People tend to forget that Apple almost reached that $200 figure in the past, but then it fell back to almost half that level. And that was despite having the iPhone and new MacBooks and MacBook Pros in the making.

I've had Apple shares in the past and they might have been the only company that I've had any emotional attachment with. Personally, I finished with them and I expect the market to stabilise and bring down the price of AAPL. But if you are doing stocks with that attitude, you should stop or downsize. Besides, this whole 2005-2010 thing is so odd. That's a very long time for anybody.

The original comment was about Apple's share price in 2005. I've never sat on any share for five years, but I can actually post a picture of my classic SL that I bought from the profit from selling Virtus at the right time. But $275?! It's mad. I would advise everybody to sell, while they can.

whizpup
Mar 4, 2010, 04:01 PM
I am forever at a loss with the amount of Mac bashers out there...primarily US based bashers at that.
You find them in the blogs, the gadget sites and many tech pages. The US has so few bright spots as of late and the few US companies like Boeing and Apple that are always pushing forward, forcing the world to take notice are increasingly rare.
Call me a Fanboy... if you wish but I am far from being a blind loyalist. Apple has earned my loyalty simply by being an impressive entity.

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 04:09 PM
What's wrong with $275 in a year? It's doable.

Absolutely. Apple is having record quarters selling premium-priced products during an economic apocalypse. Their P/E is at a measly 20 (Amazon P/E is 63!). They have bajillions in cash. The economy has a lot of recovery to come. $300+ is entirely rational, and in the not-too-distant future.

I am forever at a loss with the amount of Mac bashers out there...

Indeed. One would almost think many of them are organized or something...

DrStrange
Mar 4, 2010, 04:28 PM
I am forever at a loss with the amount of Mac bashers out there...primarily US based bashers at that.
You find them in the blogs, the gadget sites and many tech pages. The US has so few bright spots as of late and the few US companies like Boeing and Apple that are always pushing forward, forcing the world to take notice are increasingly rare.
Call me a Fanboy... if you wish but I am far from being a blind loyalist. Apple has earned my loyalty simply by being an impressive entity.

These are:

1) Netbook owners insecure of the iPad and mad at Steve Jobs for calling netbooks "worthless", "crappy", etc.

2) Nexus One, Droid, etc. owners insecure of the iPhone.

3) Google Employees realizing Apple is the true innovator and Google is the one-hit wonder company that's become the new Microsoft.

4) Adobe employees.

5) HTC employees.

6) Samsung Employees.

7) Sony Employees.

8) Microsoft Employees.

10) Asus Employees.

11) Acer Employees.

12) HP Employees.

13) Amazon Employees.

14) Kindle Owners.

etc...

cvaldes
Mar 4, 2010, 04:58 PM
But $275?! It's mad. I would advise everybody to sell, while they can.
You know that the analysts' mean recommendation is a 1.9 (1 = buy, 5 = sell), right?

You also know that analyst estimates have Apple almost doubling their EPS this coming year and that the *low* estimate still has them up 34%, right?

Analysts Brian Marshall and Andy Hargreaves (whose track records on Apple are very good) see a 30% upside for Apple stock. Hargreaves is also forecasting 3.3 million iPads to be sold this year.

A stock price of $275 a year hence is a 31% increase from today's $210 close. Well within reason.

cvaldes
Mar 4, 2010, 05:03 PM
You're looking too deeply into my hobby. Yes, striving to have an encyclopedic knowledge of past and bleeding edge computer hardware and software is only a hobby for me.

You'll see me get tough in some of the gaming threads on hardware. Paint me as a hardcore gamer if you must but I do have a job as well.
I don't consider your pursuit of encyclopedic computer knowledge to be any odder than memorizing baseball statistics, NASA mission details, or Alfred Hitchcock movies.

I note that people who are reciting baseball stats usually do so with a grin on their face. I don't get the same feeling when I read your posts here. You simply don't sound happy.

It's just my observation.

MorphingDragon
Mar 4, 2010, 05:27 PM
I'm willing to make those sacrifices to have that much GPU power in an 11.6" notebook. In that form factor you'd normally expect to see an overpriced Atom netbook or just Intel integrated graphics.

What would you use it for. You dont come off as much of a gamer TBH.

Veri
Mar 4, 2010, 05:39 PM
I'm convinced that they are people who are bitter they didn't buy AAPL five years ago at $44/share and cringe when they see it at $210 today.
Not all belief systems care for money per se. Apple has some fine UI and industrial design, which is why it interests some, but they may have no interest in increasing their influence except by operating a means of production. You're projecting your value system on others, and this false premise leads to an unsound conclusion.

You know that the analysts' mean recommendation is a 1.9 (1 = buy, 5 = sell), right?
You know that the purpose of a public analyst is to influence the market, not to predict it, yes? MacRumors even helpfully summarises all "rumours" to help you observe how the process works.

Burnsey
Mar 4, 2010, 05:50 PM
This is all relative.

I am not buying this one, it has to be bribed or more HYPE!

Probably more with innovation, revenue, brand image, etc...

Azmordean
Mar 4, 2010, 06:00 PM
I fall into the old prosumer market that Apple catered to with the iMac G5 and sub-$2,000 single processor towers. Look at the tower in my signature.

I'm much more well informed than the masses. What's wrong with the desire of better hardware for everyone? It seems to bring up a knee jerk defense of Apple's profit margins or how I'm not in Apple's market. I wasn't the one that decided to be abandoned.

I use my notebook to have OS X and Windows on the road for my IT work. At home I have my home built tower for its upgradability, quiet operation, and raw power. It may just be Handbrake, games, and the occasional video editing but Apple doesn't provide what I want at the price points I want like they did so long ago. I effectively jumped the iMac resale a year ship to buy my Macbook. As I've said it's just too good even when the fans kick to 6200 RPM on two cores.

You should have talked to me back in the year of PowerPC only. That was major suffering. Not that I would have admitted it.

Dude, you sound a lot like me. I too am a bit disappointed in Apple these days. I guess I liked Apple when it was Apple Computer. Even when they were an electronics company. I find myself increasingly dispirited by Apple the Content King. On the one hand, I just don't like the direction of the company or what it represents anymore - the pushing of proprietary formats, the coming attempts to monetize web content for new "experience" devices like the iPad, and so on - of course, we've discussed this before.

On the other, it also seems Apple's computers are just an afterthought now. There was a time Intel was releasing new chips to Apple BEFORE everyone else. Now we've returned to the bad old days of Apple peddling computers stuffed with borderline ancient tech for grossly inflated prices. I have a MacBook Pro from Feb. 2007 - then Penryn model - and the new ones, nearly two years later, literally offer NOTHING other than a nicer enclosure. Core 2 Duo is old now. Nvidia 9600M (basically a rebranded 8600M) is beyond ancient. The desktop line continues to offer nothing for people who, you know, want DESKTOP components for under $3000. I could go on.

Bottom line, I like OS X, but I'm pretty platform neutral. I buy whatever is the best hardware at the time. When I bought my MBP, it was simply a stunning machine. C2D, solid GPU, all in a thin, elegant case. Even at the high price point, nothing could touch it's performance in this form factor. This MBP replaced not one, not two, but THREE computers - my old PB G4, my old PM G5, and my old PC tower. Now, things have changed. Sony is about to release a new Z with i5 and i7 arrandales and a Nvidia GT310M all in a 13" 3.5lb package. For gaming, the lowly M11X, which starts at $799, whips the 17" MacBook Pro and says "call me daddy." I could go on but you know all of this.

Apple's attention is clearly not on computers anymore. It's on things like cell phones and content delivery systems. If I were a shareholder, maybe I'd be happy about that, as they are clearly making a killing in that business. As a computer enthusiast, I can't help but consider moving on. I am thinking of going back to two computers - a sweet Windows tower and some crazy thin and light notebook for travel, perhaps the Vostro V13.

MorphingDragon
Mar 4, 2010, 06:09 PM
Dude, you sound a lot like me. I too am a bit disappointed in Apple these days. I guess I liked Apple when it was Apple Computer. Even when they were an electronics company. I find myself increasingly dispirited by Apple the Content King. On the one hand, I just don't like the direction of the company or what it represents anymore - the pushing of proprietary formats, the coming attempts to monetize web content for new "experience" devices like the iPad, and so on - of course, we've discussed this before.

On the other, it also seems Apple's computers are just an afterthought now. There was a time Intel was releasing new chips to Apple BEFORE everyone else. Now we've returned to the bad old days of Apple peddling computers stuffed with borderline ancient tech for grossly inflated prices. I have a MacBook Pro from Feb. 2007 - then Penryn model - and the new ones, nearly two years later, literally offer NOTHING other than a nicer enclosure. Core 2 Duo is old now. Nvidia 9600M (basically a rebranded 8600M) is beyond ancient. The desktop line continues to offer nothing for people who, you know, want DESKTOP components for under $3000. I could go on.

Bottom line, I like OS X, but I'm pretty platform neutral. I buy whatever is the best hardware at the time. When I bought my MBP, it was simply a stunning machine. C2D, solid GPU, all in a thin, elegant case. Even at the high price point, nothing could touch it's performance in this form factor. This MBP replaced not one, not two, but THREE computers - my old PB G4, my old PM G5, and my old PC tower. Now, things have changed. Sony is about to release a new Z with i5 and i7 arrandales and a Nvidia GT310M all in a 13" 3.5lb package. For gaming, the lowly M11X, which starts at $799, whips the 17" MacBook Pro and says "call me daddy." I could go on but you know all of this.

Apple's attention is clearly not on computers anymore. It's on things like cell phones and content delivery systems. If I were a shareholder, maybe I'd be happy about that, as they are clearly making a killing in that business. As a computer enthusiast, I can't help but consider moving on. I am thinking of going back to two computers - a sweet Windows tower and some crazy thin and light notebook for travel, perhaps the Vostro V13.

Im also very dissapointed with Apple's offerings apart from the iMac and the Mac Mini. The iMac IMO is the only well designed All-In-One and the Mac Mini has its uses. Those two computers are wonderful but the Mac Pro and MacBook Pros leave a lot to be desired. But then again I couldn't care less for Laptops.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 06:13 PM
Dude, you sound a lot like me. I too am a bit disappointed in Apple these days. I guess I liked Apple when it was Apple Computer. Even when they were an electronics company. I find myself increasingly dispirited by Apple the Content King. On the one hand, I just don't like the direction of the company or what it represents anymore - the pushing of proprietary formats, the coming attempts to monetize web content for new "experience" devices like the iPad, and so on - of course, we've discussed this before.

On the other, it also seems Apple's computers are just an afterthought now. There was a time Intel was releasing new chips to Apple BEFORE everyone else. Now we've returned to the bad old days of Apple peddling computers stuffed with borderline ancient tech for grossly inflated prices. I have a MacBook Pro from Feb. 2007 - then Penryn model - and the new ones, nearly two years later, literally offer NOTHING other than a nicer enclosure. Core 2 Duo is old now. Nvidia 9600M (basically a rebranded 8600M) is beyond ancient. The desktop line continues to offer nothing for people who, you know, want DESKTOP components for under $3000. I could go on.

Bottom line, I like OS X, but I'm pretty platform neutral. I buy whatever is the best hardware at the time. When I bought my MBP, it was simply a stunning machine. C2D, solid GPU, all in a thin, elegant case. Even at the high price point, nothing could touch it's performance in this form factor. This MBP replaced not one, not two, but THREE computers - my old PB G4, my old PM G5, and my old PC tower. Now, things have changed. Sony is about to release a new Z with i5 and i7 arrandales and a Nvidia GT310M all in a 13" 3.5lb package. For gaming, the lowly M11X, which starts at $799, whips the 17" MacBook Pro and says "call me daddy." I could go on but you know all of this.

Apple's attention is clearly not on computers anymore. It's on things like cell phones and content delivery systems. If I were a shareholder, maybe I'd be happy about that, as they are clearly making a killing in that business. As a computer enthusiast, I can't help but consider moving on. I am thinking of going back to two computers - a sweet Windows tower and some crazy thin and light notebook for travel, perhaps the Vostro V13.

You don't seem to be taking account of what consumers are looking for in a computing experience nowadays. If you think it's raw specs you're mistaken.

Apple is now beginning the gradual transition to where tech in general is going. The iPad-like platform. What that means for the traditional notion of "computer" I don't know, but in a few years' time, things will look radically different. We'll have experienced changes that come only once a decade, if that.

Azmordean
Mar 4, 2010, 06:34 PM
You don't seem to be taking account of what consumers are looking for in a computing experience nowadays. If you think it's raw specs you're mistaken.

Apple is now beginning the gradual transition to where tech in general is going. The iPad-like platform. What that means for the traditional notion of "computer" I don't know, but in a few years' time, things will look radically different. We'll have experienced changes that come only once a decade, if that.

I'm not talking about most people - my post was about me. I agree that is the direction Apple is going, and I *hate* it. As I said in another thread - they can pry my computer from my cold dead hand :D. I have zero interest in the iPad or anything like it. I want a *computer* that *I* control, not a scripted experience. I am an enthusiast geek, who knows and understands computers, not someone who's willing to give up online freedom and pay lots of money to have a glitzy interface on a flavor-of-the-month device that is "easy to use."

So, I hope Apple is wrong. I think (hope?) the truth is somewhere in the middle. But who knows. In any case, the point of my post was that Apple no longer caters to what I look for in a computing experience - that died a while ago. Hence my thinking of returning to the MS fold :).

And really, when I examine it, my Mac is really the only Apple thing I use. I do use iTunes. I use a Droid, not an iPhone. I use Chrome, not Safari. I am thinking of moving from iPhoto to Picasa. I use Office, not iWork. I do have iPods, but not because of any love of them, just because they are "standard" and most interoperable these days. So yeah - maybe I've been moving away from Apple for a while and not realizing it until now.

Veri
Mar 4, 2010, 06:57 PM
You don't seem to be taking account of what consumers are looking for in a computing experience nowadays.
Which consumers? I am a consumer, and so are the significant majority of computer users who still aren't choosing Apple.

If you think it's raw specs you're mistaken.
Agreed.

Apple is now beginning the gradual transition to where tech in general is going. The iPad-like platform.
What tech exactly? What makes you think this? Apple were a harbinger of the WIMP GUI in 1984, but how else have they driven the direction of tech aimed at the general-purpose computer user? What else do the majority of people have ("tech in general") that they might not have seen if it wasn't for Apple?

but in a few years' time, things will look radically different. We'll have experienced changes that come only once a decade, if that.
This sounds like a marketing press release. Please substantiate your claim.

plaxico44
Mar 4, 2010, 06:57 PM
I wish apple would not focus so much of their time on the mobile market. It feels like as if they forgot about computers :rolleyes: I could care less about the ipad as well. In the meantime, were almost 75 days past due for a mbp refresh which blows my mind because every other computer company in the world has updated their hardware. Execpt Apple...... who has a 14358% markup on their computers :rolleyes:

Eidorian
Mar 4, 2010, 07:39 PM
What would you use it for. You dont come off as much of a gamer TBH.I'd use it for mobile gaming. I know it's an oxymoron but I already have my desktop and $799 for a notebook that is rather capable of doing so in an 11.6" form factor is rather impressive in my eyes. It's a little on the heavy side at 4.5 lbs. but 5-6 hours of battery life is fine for the road.

Dude, you sound a lot like me. I too am a bit disappointed in Apple these days. I guess I liked Apple when it was Apple Computer. Even when they were an electronics company. I find myself increasingly dispirited by Apple the Content King. On the one hand, I just don't like the direction of the company or what it represents anymore - the pushing of proprietary formats, the coming attempts to monetize web content for new "experience" devices like the iPad, and so on - of course, we've discussed this before.I've stated this before but it deeply worries me when a patronizing digital playpen is seen as the future of computers.

I get my books, movies, and music for free. The future is being forced into a content distribution model for my supposed benefit? I honestly don't believe my interests and wallet are being looked after by someone else much less a corporation.

Friscohoya
Mar 4, 2010, 08:17 PM
Doing something right. Goes to show that marketing is everything...

cvaldes
Mar 4, 2010, 08:57 PM
You know that the purpose of a public analyst is to influence the market, not to predict it, yes? MacRumors even helpfully summarises all "rumours" to help you observe how the process works.
Actually, if you are a public analyst and you can't reliably predict the future, your opinions will be summarily chucked into the circular file. One's track record becomes important when 72% of the outstanding shares are owned by mutual funds and institutional investors. That's why I specifically mentioned Marshall and Hargreaves; their track records are excellent.

When publicly trade companies don't match analyst expectations, the market usually reacts poorly. There is no logic for analysts to create unrealistic estimates. Despite your belief that analysts exist to manipulate the market, they can't manipulate SEC filings.

You have much to learn. You can start with spelling, followed the fundamentals of a free market economy. Your credibility is heavily damaged by your lack of mastery of either topic.

Good luck. :D

Darkroom
Mar 4, 2010, 10:23 PM
Interesting, Apple takes #1 in the Computer industry and Adobe in the Software industry... can't we all just get along?

adobe is amazing. the end.


These are:

1) Netbook owners insecure of the iPad and mad at Steve Jobs for calling netbooks "worthless", "crappy", etc.

2) Nexus One, Droid, etc. owners insecure of the iPhone.

3) Google Employees realizing Apple is the true innovator and Google is the one-hit wonder company that's become the new Microsoft.

4) Adobe employees.

5) HTC employees.

6) Samsung Employees.

7) Sony Employees.

8) Microsoft Employees.

10) Asus Employees.

11) Acer Employees.

12) HP Employees.

13) Amazon Employees.

14) Kindle Owners.

etc...

personally, i would fit in your heavily investigated "etc..." :rolleyes: if you're going to make a point about who and why people are disenchanted by Apple, you should at least try to not assume or be biased. come up from the dim light of your grandmother's basement and do some actual research.

Darkroom
Mar 4, 2010, 10:28 PM
More good news about Apple means more trolls in the thread.

really, *LTD*? a quick browse of all the threads you've started on this site (http://forums.macrumors.com/search.php?searchid=19818857) begs to question who the real troll is.

Eidorian
Mar 4, 2010, 10:32 PM
really, *LTD*? a quick browse of all the threads you've started on this site (http://forums.macrumors.com/search.php?searchid=19818857) begs to question who the real troll is.Forum searches eventually time out.

We made a flow chart here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=851462). Everyone seemed to enjoy it.

RazHyena
Mar 4, 2010, 10:43 PM
Forum searches eventually time out.

We made a flow chart here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=851462). Everyone seemed to enjoy it.

Haha. Oh wow. :o

freebooter
Mar 5, 2010, 12:12 AM
Predator Magazine poll votes AlphaWolf, "Most Admired Predator of the Year"! (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=9383482#post9383482)

marksman
Mar 5, 2010, 12:20 AM
I am going to be honest, I did not read the list because I am lazy, but I think the blurb mentioned Google being on that list.

I guess Google can be admired for some things, but in the next few years I think a very different view of Google will come to light.

Google does some things amazingly ineptly that the general public don't know about, and they continue to try and enter into businesses where this short-comings could be catastrophic.

So we shall see... I used to admire google, but do not any longer.

machackpc
Mar 5, 2010, 12:27 AM
:apple: No doubt that Apple took the top spot. Steve Jobs and his team deserves it. Congratulation to each and even person who is involved in bringing Apple to this level. (from the line employees to developers to P. Manager to VP's to Chief officers..)

I am happy too - As I am a big fan of Apple

Jaro65
Mar 5, 2010, 01:33 AM
1 year target estimate: $275

I really wouldn't be surprised if it did that. It will be interesting to see the market impact that the iPad is going to make and its contribution to the bottom line over the next several quarters. The early demand stats look pretty good.

Eso
Mar 5, 2010, 02:09 AM
As an AAPL shareholder...

Give it a rest dude, seriously. What do you own, 1,000 shares? Woop-dee-doo.

This isn't a website about the stock market and not that many people here care about Apple's stock. I can assure you that no one here cares that you own any or what price you bought it at.

Darkroom
Mar 5, 2010, 02:46 AM
I am going to be honest, I did not read the list because I am lazy, but I think the blurb mentioned Google being on that list.

I guess Google can be admired for some things, but in the next few years I think a very different view of Google will come to light.

Google does some things amazingly ineptly that the general public don't know about, and they continue to try and enter into businesses where this short-comings could be catastrophic.

So we shall see... I used to admire google, but do not any longer.

wal-mart and coco-cola are also in the top 10. there's nothing admiral about those companies except for their profits. it is fortune magazine, after all.

care to elaborate on your statement about google for us, the general public?

This isn't a website about the stock market and not that many people here care about Apple's stock. I can assure you that no one here cares that you own any or what price you bought it at.

+1

Veri
Mar 5, 2010, 04:18 AM
Actually, if you are a public analyst and you can't reliably predict the future, your opinions will be summarily chucked into the circular file.
If you are a public analyst and you can't reliably help create the future, your opinions will be summarily chucked into the circular file.

Despite your belief that analysts exist to manipulate the market, they can't manipulate SEC filings.
But they can manipulate investor behaviour, which in turn affects corporation behaviour, together affecting SEC filings.

You can start with spelling,
I apologise if I have made a spelling error... could you please point it out for my benefit?

followed the fundamentals of a free market economy.
I am certain that one of the fundamentals of a free market economy is that marketing affects customer behaviour, and that includes the marketing of investments to current and potential investors. Public analysts may start off by making good guesses, but once they have a voice well heard -- as you have yourself admitted -- they help the fulfilment of their own prophecies, most easily through the publication of vague recommendations.

I'm sure you remember what happened to HP under chief clown Fiorina. On the one hand, we must admire Apple for observing the risk they took with Intel, and we can understand their wanting to invest in their own chip plants. But they remain in the same trap of relying on a few years of unparalleled technical success and accompanying investor support, and have begun to allow the tail to wag the dog. The iPad is revolutionary as an ink cartridge with strong DRM, and it fulfils a similar role.

I can assure you that no one here cares that you own any or what price you bought it at.
Hear hear! The most repeated fallacy I have seen on Macrumors (and other Apple community sites) is the "ur jus jealous" argument. It might be interesting to try and understand why, as few other enthusiast communities fall into the same mistake of assuming that every visitor is going to have the same values/motivation/interests. Although I chuckle at the idea of going to a Linux community forum and seeing proud proclamations about investment performance in, say, Red Hat. OK, there was a bit of that a decade or so ago, but people grew out of it when they acknowledged once again that investors are a means to the end: technological advancement.

mccldwll
Mar 5, 2010, 06:40 AM
Pointless post.



But Virtus Investment comes to mind between last spring and summer. During the same period, The Blackstone did just as well. When Apple really gained during that last spring/summer, a lot of companies did too.

Incidentally, that was the time to buy Apple too. So did I, but don't say that anybody in their right mind would have considered Apple a very well-performing stock just before that spring. If the guy really owned some shares since 2005, he might have screamed his head off to see his money wasting away in the second half of 2008. People tend to forget that Apple almost reached that $200 figure in the past, but then it fell back to almost half that level. And that was despite having the iPhone and new MacBooks and MacBook Pros in the making.

I've had Apple shares in the past and they might have been the only company that I've had any emotional attachment with. Personally, I finished with them and I expect the market to stabilise and bring down the price of AAPL. But if you are doing stocks with that attitude, you should stop or downsize. Besides, this whole 2005-2010 thing is so odd. That's a very long time for anybody.

The original comment was about Apple's share price in 2005. I've never sat on any share for five years, but I can actually post a picture of my classic SL that I bought from the profit from selling Virtus at the right time. But $275?! It's mad. I would advise everybody to sell, while they can.


Virtus? Blackstone? You mean the type of players who were responsible for the crash in the first place? Try again. We're still trying to pull out of the biggest market crash in 70 years. Few stocks have returned to near their pre-crash levels. Aapl not only sailed through the storm while analyst clowns like Abramsky were predicting shrinking demand/lower prices, but has gone on to all time highs. I've also been in aapl 5 years. The crash was no fun but aapl survived it far better than any others. And it's just the beginning. The mobile internet is just getting started and aapl is better positioned in the space than any other company. Selling aapl right now (trading at @ 13 times forward earnings ex cash) would be about as dumb as buying a Palm or NOK phone. If you think $275 in a year is mad, you'll love $375 in 2.

Veri
Mar 5, 2010, 07:32 AM
The mobile internet is just getting started and aapl is better positioned in the space than any other company.

The mobile Internet was "just getting started" not after 1998, when I first recall sitting in a McDonald's in London with a Psion palmtop connected to a GSM cellphone.

ArrowSmith
Mar 5, 2010, 11:52 AM
I really wouldn't be surprised if it did that. It will be interesting to see the market impact that the iPad is going to make and its contribution to the bottom line over the next several quarters. The early demand stats look pretty good.

Apple can't even begin to take pre-orders until March 12, so you are simply blowing smoke up people's arse.

twoodcc
Mar 5, 2010, 12:02 PM
glad to see this. i see more apple haters everyday, but this is more fire for them

cvaldes
Mar 5, 2010, 12:41 PM
On the one hand, we must admire Apple for observing the risk they took with Intel, and we can understand their wanting to invest in their own chip plants. But they remain in the same trap of relying on a few years of unparalleled technical success and accompanying investor support, and have begun to allow the tail to wag the dog. The iPad is revolutionary as an ink cartridge with strong DRM, and it fulfils a similar role.
The risk of staying with PowerPC architecture was greater than switching to Intel.

"investing in their own chip plants" - What do you mean by this? I do not see evidence of Apple building their own foundries or even taking a partial ownership stake in someone else's.

kobewankenobi
Mar 5, 2010, 05:50 PM
I'd use it for mobile gaming. I know it's an oxymoron but I already have my desktop and $799 for a notebook that is rather capable of doing so in an 11.6" form factor is rather impressive in my eyes. It's a little on the heavy side at 4.5 lbs. but 5-6 hours of battery life is fine for the road.

I've stated this before but it deeply worries me when a patronizing digital playpen is seen as the future of computers.

I get my books, movies, and music for free. The future is being forced into a content distribution model for my supposed benefit? I honestly don't believe my interests and wallet are being looked after by someone else much less a corporation.

if you get music books and movies for free maybe it means you are stealing?
just wondering

LagunaSol
Mar 5, 2010, 06:01 PM
if you get music books and movies for free maybe it means you are stealing?
just wondering

Eidorian doesn't believe in paying for digital content, failing to understand that the reason people create digital content is to make money (ie a living) by doing so.

Fortunately there are those of us who do pay for content, enabling its creation and his opportunty to mooch it.

Eidorian
Mar 5, 2010, 06:03 PM
if you get music books and movies for free maybe it means you are stealing?
just wonderingI don't pay property taxes.

Eidorian doesn't believe in paying for digital content, failing to understand that the reason people create digital content is to make money (ie a living) by doing so.

Fortunately there are those of us who do pay for content, enabling its creation and his opportunty to mooch it.If that lets you sleep at night.

AidenShaw
Mar 5, 2010, 09:38 PM
I don't pay property taxes.

If that lets you sleep at night.


...
good to know who am i talking to
you are just a dirty thief


To be generous, I'll assume that you're not an American citizen -
your profile doesn't list your homeworld.

In the US, "property taxes" are taxes paid on "real property" - in
other words, land and buildings on the land. They are "real
estate" taxes, not taxes on personal property like Igadgets and
the like.

Renters don't own the real estate, so they do not directly pay
property taxes (although one can assume that the landlord has
factored the property taxes into the rent).

So, it's a big stretch to take "I don't pay property taxes" to
"you are just a dirty thief".

kobewankenobi
Mar 5, 2010, 09:40 PM
To be generous, I'll assume that you're not an American citizen -
your profile doesn't list your homeworld.

In the US, "property taxes" are taxes paid on "real property" - in
other words, land and buildings on the land. They are "real
estate" taxes, not taxes on personal property like Igadgets and
the like.

Renters don't own the real estate, so they do not directly pay
property taxes (although one can assume that the landlord has
factored the property taxes into the rent).

So, it's a big stretch to take "I don't pay property taxes" to
"you are just a dirty thief".

so you are saying instead of buying books music and movies is ok to get them illegally without paying?
you are out of your mind
i dont need to be usa citizen to understand such simple concept

AidenShaw
Mar 5, 2010, 09:49 PM
so you are saying instead of buying books music and movies is ok to get them illegally without paying?
you are out of your mind
i dont need to be usa citizen to understand such simple concept

Public libraries in the US loan books and DVDs without charge -
that's the basic purpose of a library. One of our local libraries
even loans ebooks.

Public libraries are paid for by taxes, so Eidorian is actually
paying for the content - just not at the point of consumption.

Assuming that Eidorian doesn't digitize the books or rip the DVDs
to his system, it's legally (and ethically) proper.

Eidorian
Mar 5, 2010, 10:57 PM
Public libraries in the US loan books and DVDs without charge -
that's the basic purpose of a library. One of our local libraries
even loans ebooks.

Public libraries are paid for by taxes, so Eidorian is actually
paying for the content - just not at the point of consumption.

Assuming that Eidorian doesn't digitize the books or rip the DVDs
to his system, it's legally (and ethically) proper.If I really want to buy a CD I can get them off of eBay for pennies and shipping. Failing that there's Amazon or DRM free iTunes.

Otherwise content for the sake of one time consumption is off of my ATSC DVR, Hulu, or borrowing materials from the library. I don't see a reason to buy content if I don't want to own it. Subscriptions tread a gray area for me but I haven't purchased any yet.

With all of the money I do save not paying for books, DVDs, and music (usually classical); I do buy plenty of games via Steam for my friends (4 person bulk discounts in addition to 50-75% off sales) and for the rest of my free time. ;)

Yes, I am a renter.

Aiden do you have any idea how the licensing and viewer works for your library system's eBooks? We have downloadable audiobooks and certain materials visible via a web browser. It's still a leap to see the library fitting into as a eBook filling station for devices at this point. It still looks like vendors and service providers are fighting it out in hardware and software.

kobewankenobi
Mar 6, 2010, 12:12 AM
Public libraries in the US loan books and DVDs without charge -
that's the basic purpose of a library. One of our local libraries
even loans ebooks.

Public libraries are paid for by taxes, so Eidorian is actually
paying for the content - just not at the point of consumption.

Assuming that Eidorian doesn't digitize the books or rip the DVDs
to his system, it's legally (and ethically) proper.

yes assuming that you are right
if he does not rip from internet, he is not stealing
hard to understand though from the tone of his reply

AidenShaw
Mar 6, 2010, 07:42 AM
Aiden do you have any idea how the licensing and viewer works for your library system's eBooks? We have downloadable audiobooks and certain materials visible via a web browser.

See the Northern California Digital Library (http://califa.lib.overdrive.com/DBB9BC58-658E-407B-A13F-14BAAFFF3303/10/350/en/Default.htm).

You need a local library card to use the NCDL.

If we're lucky, the Ipad will increase the availability of ebooks
for all devices (a rising tide raises all boats). It will be
sad if the Ipad ebooks are DRM'd to death like Fairplay.

Eidorian
Mar 6, 2010, 09:52 AM
See the Northern California Digital Library (http://califa.lib.overdrive.com/DBB9BC58-658E-407B-A13F-14BAAFFF3303/10/350/en/Default.htm).

You need a local library card to use the NCDL.

If we're lucky, the Ipad will increase the availability of ebooks
for all devices (a rising tide raises all boats). It will be
sad if the Ipad ebooks are DRM'd to death like Fairplay.It looks like Overdrive is a commonly used provider among library systems. Last month's issue of Library Journal (http://www.libraryjournal.com/toc-archive/2010/20100215.html) had a short article on the eBook readers from CES.

I've only accessed unprotected materials from Overdrive (PDF/MP3) but I know they do provide some protected WMA content.

AidenShaw
Mar 6, 2010, 10:43 AM
It looks like Overdrive is a commonly used provider among library systems. Last month's issue of Library Journal (http://www.libraryjournal.com/toc-archive/2010/20100215.html) had a short article on the eBook readers from CES.

I've only accessed unprotected materials from Overdrive (PDF/MP3) but I know they do provide some protected WMA content.

Their site also desribes protected Epub and protected PDF
content.

The use of DRM (especially for a public library) doesn't bother
me much - as long as the DRM implementation is multi-platform.
I would object to DRM that only plays on one device - my public
library taxes shouldn't goto to leverage some vendor's hardware
sales.

Eidorian
Mar 6, 2010, 11:22 AM
Their site also desribes protected Epub and protected PDF
content.

The use of DRM (especially for a public library) doesn't bother
me much - as long as the DRM implementation is multi-platform.
I would object to DRM that only plays on one device - my public
library taxes shouldn't goto to leverage some vendor's hardware
sales.I agree that the content should be mutliplatform. Nonetheless the library only fits in by paying a provider for a site license for e-content. Its goals are to provide its materials and services to its patrons at no direct cost to them.

A far cry from Apple and other vendors.

LagunaSol
Mar 6, 2010, 12:03 PM
The use of DRM (especially for a public library) doesn't bother me much - as long as the DRM implementation is multi-platform. I would object to DRM that only plays on one device - my public
library taxes shouldn't goto to leverage some vendor's hardware
sales.

I sincerely doubt you would object to Microsoft-controlled DRM that cater to devices that fall into Microsoft's ecosystem.

AidenShaw
Mar 6, 2010, 12:31 PM
I sincerely doubt you would object to Microsoft-controlled DRM that cater to devices that fall into Microsoft's ecosystem.

Sorry, but you are wrong here.

If I am going to buy content with DRM, I don't want a closed
system. If Microsoft created a system and licensed it (for
a nominal sum, and without prejudice) to all who wanted it (and
there were other users) - that would be OK. The opposite
would be the old Fairplay system - I have nothing from Itunes
(nor from any other music store - but that's due as much to
disliking lifeless overly compressed music).

Standards-based DRM (as in DVD and BD movies) is also OK, no
worry about being stuck with some useless (but shiny) discs.

I hope that the Ipad triggers a new market for open electronic
publishing, but I have my fears that it won't be open enough.

MorphingDragon
Mar 6, 2010, 03:26 PM
Sorry, but you are wrong here.

If I am going to buy content with DRM, I don't want a closed
system. If Microsoft created a system and licensed it (for
a nominal sum, and without prejudice) to all who wanted it (and
there were other users) - that would be OK. The opposite
would be the old Fairplay system - I have nothing from Itunes
(nor from any other music store - but that's due as much to
disliking lifeless overly compressed music).

Standards-based DRM (as in DVD and BD movies) is also OK, no
worry about being stuck with some useless (but shiny) discs.

I hope that the Ipad triggers a new market for open electronic
publishing, but I have my fears that it won't be open enough.

Knowing Apple its going to be some system already in use rebranded, or they buy out an open-source solution. :rolleyes:

Xibalba
Mar 6, 2010, 04:50 PM
it's quite amazingly humorous just how off-topic these thread posts can deviate but an interesting read nonetheless.

congrats to apple for yet another accolade and i am glad to see when people object to awards such as this because the last thing we need is everyone in agreement on technology - competition is important in the computing ecosystem.

i enjoy macs at home, pcs at work, and my iphone everywhere i go...

cvaldes
Oct 18, 2010, 03:12 PM
1 year target estimate: $275
Boy, was I off.

:D

cvaldes
Feb 10, 2011, 10:37 AM
1 year target estimate: $275
Boy, was I really off. It's flirting with $360 today.

With a month to go, I'll readjust that to $375.

LagunaSol
Feb 10, 2011, 10:45 AM
Boy, was I really off. It's flirting with $360 today.

With a month to go, I'll readjust that to $375.

Dropping $5k on Apple stock in 2001 was the best move I ever made.

The worst move I ever made? Not taking out a second mortgage and dropping $50k on Apple stock in 2001.

Ahh, hindsight.