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MacRumors
Mar 4, 2010, 03:07 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/03/04/sony-preparing-new-handheld-devices-to-take-on-apple/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2010/03/04/160602-ipad_gaming.jpg

The Wall Street Journal reports (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703502804575101013088128250.html) (subscription required) on Sony's plans to develop a new lineup of handheld devices to compete against Apple's iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad.Threatened by Apple Inc.'s growing stable of portable devices, Sony Corp. is developing a new lineup of handheld products, including a smart phone capable of downloading and playing PlayStation games, according to people familiar with the matter.

The Japanese electronics giant also has a project under way to develop a portable device that blurs distinctions among a netbook, an e-reader and a PlayStation Portable, or PSP. The device is designed to compete against multifunction products such as Apple's coming iPad tablet, these people said.The initiative seems to be an expansion of an effort (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/27/sony-designing-mobile-phone-psp-hybrid-to-better-compete-against-iphone/) revealed last year, with Apple's forthcoming iPad now serving as yet another target for Sony. According to today's report, Sony is targeting a 2010 launch for these devices, although specifications and pricing are currently unknown.

The devices will reportedly be designed to take advantage of Sony long-standing leadership position in mobile gaming while also leveraging the company's new media service due for launch this month as a competitor to Apple's iTunes Store. Sony has felt increasing pressure as Apple and third-party developers have been increasingly positioning the iPhone, and particularly the iPod touch, as gaming devices (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/14/apple-hiring-an-iphone-game-developer-getting-even-more-serious-about-gaming/). The iPad, which will be able to run iPhone games as well as iPad-specific applications, obviously offers yet another venue for quality gaming experiences.

Article Link: Sony Preparing New Handheld Devices to Take On Apple (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/03/04/sony-preparing-new-handheld-devices-to-take-on-apple/)



G4R2
Mar 4, 2010, 03:10 PM
I'd love to see what Sony can do, hopefully with a more focused and sustained effort.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 03:12 PM
Running what lousy desktop OS scaled down to run on a tablet device?

What a joke. Seen it all before.

Bring on the "iPad Killers."

iPhoney:)
Mar 4, 2010, 03:13 PM
If I were Sony I would create a custom os specifically for their device.

Peace
Mar 4, 2010, 03:13 PM
It will probably run Android like all the rest.

I bet Linus is having a great time about right now.

slicecom
Mar 4, 2010, 03:13 PM
The devices will reportedly be designed to take advantage of Sony long-standing leadership position in mobile gaming

:confused:

Pretty sure Nintendo has held the leadership position in mobile gaming since the original Gameboy to the DSi. PSP sales don't come close to the sales Nintendo's mobile gaming devices.

RalfTheDog
Mar 4, 2010, 03:14 PM
Sony is having a hard time competing with Microsoft. What makes them think they could compete with Apple or Google?

jclardy
Mar 4, 2010, 03:14 PM
Will be interesting to see what they do, but I am not expecting much of Sony. Everything they have done in the mobile space has been quite lackluster.

kernkraft
Mar 4, 2010, 03:15 PM
In my opinion, gaming is actually one of those few features, where the iPad will succeed. For people like me, who don't even see the need for a Playstation or wouldn't have a Wii, the iPad is ideal. Oops, that come out the wrong way!

ravenvii
Mar 4, 2010, 03:16 PM
:confused:

Pretty sure Nintendo has held the leadership position in mobile gaming since the original Gameboy to the DSi. PSP sales don't come close to the sales Nintendo's mobile gaming devices.

Same reaction to the statement - it's simply false. Perhaps the author consoles, not mobile?

MMX
Mar 4, 2010, 03:16 PM
Take on Apple? How?

the vj
Mar 4, 2010, 03:17 PM
Sony stuffs are good but can not compete with Apple.

The Vaio was supposed to be the competitor for the Powerbook.

Sony can come with what ever they want regarding computer peripherals but if some oen need a table won't look for Sony, it will look for Apple.

Sony is good for TVs, DVD playeras and cameras, that is their field.

kernkraft
Mar 4, 2010, 03:18 PM
Sony is having a hard time competing with Microsoft. What makes them think they could compete with Apple or Google?

Sony is not a one-trick pony. In what way do they compete with Google? Perhaps Google has its name on a few phones now, but that is small change compared to the revenue, these giants generate. At least, with Apple it's not just phones, but portable computers and television boxes too.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 03:19 PM
The PS Wee.

bnerd
Mar 4, 2010, 03:19 PM
I hope Sony does well.. It'll only make Apple push technology even further ..

zombitronic
Mar 4, 2010, 03:19 PM
Good for Sony. Smaller handheld devices are their forté, but I don't see them taking over the tablet market. This is largely going to be a software battle, and they're atrocious at UI design and flow, IMO.

AgingGeek
Mar 4, 2010, 03:21 PM
Sony's been making hand held devices for years! It's not about the devices, Sony. It's about the integration, ease of use, and CONTENT management.

Don't you watch the keynotes by Jobs?

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 03:23 PM
I hope Sony does well.. It'll only make Apple push technology even further ..

If I had a dime for every time I've heard that. That, and the tired "competition is good" line.

"I hope ABC company does well, because that will force/push/compel Apple to innovate."

The thing is, Apple has been "pushing technology further" on their own for years now, and in fact, Apple is usually the one forcing everyone else to up their game.

Apple doesn't respond to market pressures. Apple goes its own way and everyone else follows when they see Apple's success in these new or heretofore untapped areas.

DARKJ3DI
Mar 4, 2010, 03:24 PM
Sony is a has-been.

Its Walkman line crumbled with competition from the iPod
The Playstation brand is failing in this generation of console wars
Their Vaio computers are not selling

Screw you Sony. I am never buying another one of your products. "This fault isn't covered under warranty". What? So faulty disc drives in my PSone and PS2 that were less than a year old don't get fixed? And my PSP randomly turns off.

iHate you Sony.

NewSc2
Mar 4, 2010, 03:25 PM
I wanna see Sony do well (own/love their TVs), but honestly, they haven't done anything "big" since the Playstation 2.

bocomo
Mar 4, 2010, 03:25 PM
I hope Sony does well.. It'll only make Apple push technology even further ..

this




(as long as it doesn't complicate the eReader format-war-type-stuff. i don't want to be locked into one platform)

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 03:27 PM
Sony is a has-been.

Its Walkman line crumbled with competition from the iPod
The Playstation brand is failing in this generation of console wars
Their Vaio computers are not selling

Screw you Sony. I am never buying another one of your products. "This fault isn't covered under warranty". What? So faulty disc drives in my PSone and PS2 that were less than a year old don't get fixed? And my PSP randomly turns off.

iHate you Sony.

It's not really that they're has-beens, but that they've become a generic name in a sea of generic names. They really have no premiere, stand-out devices that lead their respective segments. Even in TVs and audio equipment. Just more "Sony alternatives" to the same products. Not much brand differentiation anymore. Boring and uninspiring.

Enigma55
Mar 4, 2010, 03:28 PM
How long until Apple sues Sony over Ipad patent infringement? Not long is my guess...

aristotle
Mar 4, 2010, 03:28 PM
Sony is a has-been.

Its Walkman line crumbled with competition from the iPod
The Playstation brand is failing in this generation of console wars
Their Vaio computers are not selling

Screw you Sony. I am never buying another one of your products. "This fault isn't covered under warranty". What? So faulty disc drives in my PSone and PS2 that were less than a year old don't get fixed? And my PSP randomly turns off.

iHate you Sony.
What about Xbox 360 RROD in 30% of units or how the drive like to scratch discs.

lewchenko
Mar 4, 2010, 03:28 PM
When Apple learns to add physical buttons onto their 'gaming' devices, then Sony should be worried. If they decide on analogue sticks (no idea how)..then be really worried! Touch screen gaming sucks.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 03:30 PM
What about Xbox 360 RROD in 30% of units or how the drive like to scratch discs.

But Halo is SO OSSSUM!!!!

RalfTheDog
Mar 4, 2010, 03:30 PM
Sony is not a one-trick pony. In what way do they compete with Google? Perhaps Google has its name on a few phones now, but that is small change compared to the revenue, these giants generate. At least, with Apple it's not just phones, but portable computers and television boxes too.

My point was that Microsoft is rapidly declining in it's ability to compete in new markets. When Sony goes up against Microsoft, they have a very hard time.

If Sony can't dominate a very soft target, how can they expect to play with a company like Apple Or Apple's competition, Google? (Google will move into this market.)

Note: I know that Apple is an older company than Microsoft. The Apple of today is not your grandfathers Apple.

lewchenko
Mar 4, 2010, 03:31 PM
I wanna see Sony do well (own/love their TVs), but honestly, they haven't done anything "big" since the Playstation 2.


Well they atleast managed to update their laptop range to include i3 and i5 processors...something Apple seems incapable of doing. (and even undercut Apple's current prices for 'outdated technology' )

Sad... but nethertheless... very true.

(Im referring to the Sony Vaio S Series of course)

RalfTheDog
Mar 4, 2010, 03:32 PM
I hope Sony does well.. It'll only make Apple push technology even further ..

++

marksman
Mar 4, 2010, 03:33 PM
I like a lot of what Sony does...

I do agree that their biggest hurdle will be developing a mobile OS that works well. That is the biggest asset Apple has... and sony does not exactly have a long history of developing involved OSes for anything.

So we shall see, but I welcome the competition. Plus maybe they can come up with a portable MMOG.

goobot
Mar 4, 2010, 03:35 PM
http://www.ispazio.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/sony-ericsson-psp-phone.jpg

4look4rd
Mar 4, 2010, 03:38 PM
When Apple learns to add physical buttons onto their 'gaming' devices, then Sony should be worried. If they decide on analogue sticks (no idea how)..then be really worried! Touch screen gaming sucks.

I actually play PSone games in my computer with an emulator, and the first thing I do is to assign all the bottoms to two analog sticks.... it works much better than regular bottoms for me because they don't break as often and don't make as much noise..... so two analogs is simply great for gaming, (though I only play Final Fantasy Tactics with it xD)

ChazUK
Mar 4, 2010, 03:38 PM
I've never had a problem with Sony myself but used to be a massive Sega zealot back in the day and missed out on a lot of the PS1 classics and the PS2 entirely (I got a free PS2 recently when i fixed my parents broken one and they didn't want it!).

I doubt thy can quell Apple's momentum but they do do some great hardware. My PS3 is one of my favourite gadgets and was a welcome exchange from 2 faulty XBOX 360's of mine:
Most recent Failbox: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luB3jLLIMB4 (only 4 months old and it sounded like a leafblower. I took it back to the store after that)

goobot
Mar 4, 2010, 03:39 PM
i personly feel if microsoft made a phone that was an xbox with full moble xbox live they could be big. and that would defiantly be the only compition for:apple: imo

paradox00
Mar 4, 2010, 03:40 PM
When Apple learns to add physical buttons onto their 'gaming' devices, then Sony should be worried. If they decide on analogue sticks (no idea how)..then be really worried! Touch screen gaming sucks.

Something like this (http://icontrolpad.com/) could take off if a major developer were to get behind it, or make their own. Sony should fear third parties and their affinity to make iPhone cases and that pesky dock connector that enables accessories to be attached to it.

Frostbyte
Mar 4, 2010, 03:42 PM
No matter how hard Sony tried to best Nintendo at the handheld market, it failed. Especially with the PSPgo... that was a huge flop.

The iPhone is a successful gaming platform because it's not JUST a gaming system. Most people don't want to carry around 2-3 dedicated devices, when a VERY capable unitasker like the iPhone is available.

Go chase something else Sony...this is a loose proposition.

NinjaKid
Mar 4, 2010, 03:42 PM
I would never purchase a Sony product, I used to be a fan of Sony but got tired of being left in the dark by them with there lack of support for devices that are not the latest on the market. They drop support like rain drops falling out of a cloud during a storm. Case and point:
1) Had a Sony Vio computer with 3 year warranty, HD went bad after 2 years. Sony replaces HD but no OS on the system. They claim that they no longer had a contract with Microsoft for the OS on the series of computer I had and I would have to go out and purchase my own copy of windows for the computer.
2) Had a Sony Clie device, all of a sudden drivers and support site vanish off the face of the earth due to Sony decided they wont sell the device in the US anymore so why would anyone in the US still need support for the device they own?
3) Sony Aibo, I have a few of these, they stop selling them and all support vanishes from the website.
4) Sony Roly, had one of them also but they stooped making them now no support for new version of windows with a device less then a year old.
5) First PSP came out had problem with button getting stuck under the screen, Sony says to bad its the way me made it and you will live with it, this person the head of gaming at Sony was fired after the remark went public and they later fixed the problem but still the Sony Attitude is We are Sony you are not, you will buy what we make and like it even if you don't because we are great.
6) there is much more to say but hey look at apple there devices are still supported going back to the first Ipod, I would like to see Sony show the same type of support for any of the devices they make. This isn't only Sony but just about every electronics manufacture that is in existence.

flyguy206
Mar 4, 2010, 03:42 PM
i personly feel if microsoft made a phone that was an xbox with full moble xbox live they could be big. and that would defiantly be the only compition for:apple: imo

LOL it would have 30% hardware failure. But sony should just stick with making tv's. Apple know how to put work into what they make. they just don't do something because everyone is doing it. the psp sucks

polaris20
Mar 4, 2010, 03:42 PM
I wonder if it'll come with a rootkit for free, or if that's optional with your purchase of a DMB music download?

marksman
Mar 4, 2010, 03:43 PM
I did hear leak of nintendo working on an a tablet like device called

"Wee Wii"

EliteF50
Mar 4, 2010, 03:44 PM
Sony is a has-been.

Its Walkman line crumbled with competition from the iPod
The Playstation brand is failing in this generation of console wars
Their Vaio computers are not selling

Screw you Sony. I am never buying another one of your products. "This fault isn't covered under warranty". What? So faulty disc drives in my PSone and PS2 that were less than a year old don't get fixed? And my PSP randomly turns off.

iHate you Sony.

What are you talking about? Sony's doing better than ever. The PSP is selling great, the PS3 has really been picking up steam for the last year or so, and now they're even ready to make their own tablet to compete with Apple.

I love Apple, but I have a lot of faith in Sony.

Chupa Chupa
Mar 4, 2010, 03:44 PM
The irony of Sony chasing Apple. 25 years ago that would have been as crazy as Eddie.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 03:44 PM
No matter how hard Sony tried to best Nintendo at the handheld market, it failed. Especially with the PSPgo... that was a huge flop.

The iPhone is a successful gaming platform because it's not JUST a gaming system. Most people don't want to carry around 2-3 dedicated devices, when a VERY capable unitasker like the iPhone is available.

Go chase something else Sony...this is a loose proposition.

It's all about convergence.


I did hear leak of nintendo working on an a tablet like device called

"Wee Wii"

Now THAT is funny. Funnier than my "PS Wee" quip. ;)

Icaras
Mar 4, 2010, 03:46 PM
:confused:

Pretty sure Nintendo has held the leadership position in mobile gaming since the original Gameboy to the DSi. PSP sales don't come close to the sales Nintendo's mobile gaming devices.

+1

Just because Sony is the only other company other than Nintendo to launch a successful traditional business in mobile gaming hardly qualifies them with any leadership position.

muskratboy
Mar 4, 2010, 03:46 PM
Same reaction to the statement - it's simply false. Perhaps the author consoles, not mobile?

"the DS has topped 40 million units worldwide. Sony has, respectably, reached 25 million."

http://gizmodo.com/328884/8-reasons-the-psp-will-never-ever-overtake-the-ds

dude... the DS has outsold the PSP SUBSTANTIALLY. the DS line is the best-selling hand-held gaming device EVER.

Seriously, I thought this was common knowledge.

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 03:47 PM
Say whatever you will, Sony's partnership with Ericsson still produces the highest quality phones on the market.

Toss in a PSP like gaming experience and I'm sold. IMO the Cybershot hybrid phones were the best all-in-one devices for the portable market to this date. I'd still be using my SE if I hadn't been robbed at gunpoint 2 years ago.

Cybershot
+
Walkman
+
PSP
+
Sony Ericsson
+
Symbian/Android

This is an exciting all in one device.

interestedabit
Mar 4, 2010, 03:47 PM
The irony of Sony chasing Apple. 25 years ago that would have been as crazy as Eddie.

Very true. Sony have had a terrible few years. I really like Sony, hope they get back but they kicked themselves in the teeth for so long now.

blackpond
Mar 4, 2010, 03:48 PM
The truth of the matter is, if the device doesn't sync with and play iTunes content (music, apps, movies, tv shows...), it won't be killing anything. No matter who makes it.

muskratboy
Mar 4, 2010, 03:48 PM
and... yay, Sony devices!

Awesome hardware... ******, ****** software.

All games will come on proprietary memorysticks. in ATRAC format.

man those guys suck.

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 03:49 PM
Just because Sony is the only other company other than Nintendo to launch a successful traditional business in mobile gaming hardly qualifies them with any leadership position.

Just because Apple is looking to be the Toyota Corolla of the mobile phone market, doesn't mean Sony can't be the BMW. I hate sales figures numbers to tout success. Where is Apple with computers nowadays? 4th? 5th? They still make the best computers.

nik.cooper
Mar 4, 2010, 03:50 PM
What about Xbox 360 RROD in 30% of units or how the drive like to scratch discs.

Yes, but when that happened to mine, even out of warranty, Microsoft repaired my unit free of charge. It was three and a bit years old. While the problem surfacing was annoying, the extra warranty they provided, and for me the willingness to repair it even outside that warranty, made the problem itself, not a problem at all.

Quality service when a customer encounters a problem will always, for me, completely change the problem itself. Either blow it all out of proportion and make it an 'end of the world' issue if I'm treated poorly. Or make it an insignificant speck in time and something that's not a hassle at all if I'm treated well.

Customer service is king.

I've had brilliant service from Apple when I've had problems with my iPod/iPhone/MacBook Pro at the Genius Bar. And good, but nowhere near as fast or convenient, from Microsoft for problems with my XBox 360.
:D

wilhoitm
Mar 4, 2010, 03:51 PM
Sony is the only company that I know of that tries to sell products even more expensive than Apple's products. Have you priced one of their TV's lately?

Marcus

Icaras
Mar 4, 2010, 03:51 PM
i personly feel if microsoft made a phone that was an xbox with full moble xbox live they could be big. and that would defiantly be the only compition for:apple: imo

Are there keys missing in your keyboard by chance?

And you must be smoking to dismiss Nintendo and Sony as competitors. Both companies are proven industry standards in the mobile gaming space, with Nintendo dominating handhelds since the first Gameboy in the 80s. Microsoft on the other hand, has done nothing.

LOL it would have 30% hardware failure. But sony should just stick with making tv's. Apple know how to put work into what they make. they just don't do something because everyone is doing it. the psp sucks

Yea, and the whole phone would just glow red and probably auto self destruct.

interestedabit
Mar 4, 2010, 03:52 PM
Say whatever you will, Sony's partnership with Ericsson still produces the highest quality phones on the market.

Toss in a PSP like gaming experience and I'm sold. IMO the Cybershot hybrid phones were the best all-in-one devices for the portable market to this date. I'd still be using my SE if I hadn't been robbed at gunpoint 2 years ago.

Cybershot
+
Walkman
+
PSP
+
Sony Ericsson
+
Symbian/Android

This is an exciting all in one device.

Sony Ericsson is pretty piss poor tbh.

"Sony's partnership with Ericsson still produces the highest quality phones on the market."

Wow. The phones aren't technically terrible per se, but they just have no idea how to move forward, it's always catch up and the interaction with computer->phone is really clunky. I had one for 4 years, kinda liked it in terms of phone quality but I never bothered using it with my pc after first few weeks, was unbelievably hit and miss, mostly miss. Never again. My new iphone on the other hand... has been wonderful. That was a great purchase, awesome phone.

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 03:52 PM
The truth of the matter is, if the device doesn't sync with and play iTunes content (music, apps, movies, tv shows...), it won't be killing anything. No matter who makes it.

Meh, if it connects to my PS3, I won't worry about what computer is running my iTunes.

Apple better get that TV hobby of theirs out of the basement and onto store shelves. Device centric lives are moving into the living room, not the office.

andrew0122
Mar 4, 2010, 03:52 PM
I hope that Sony can introduce a new and revolutionary product to keep Apple on it's toes. In the past few years it seems like Apple has slowly became the new Micro$oft and is becoming less and less of an innovator.

If this is what it is going to take to get Apple to become a better company than what it is today and to keep that number one position as the most admired company they are going to need to keep innovating and re-innovating.

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 03:52 PM
Sony is a has-been.

Agreed - Sony only makes one product worth buying these days: the PS3. And to me it was only worth buying because 1) Blu-Ray and 2) it's not Microsoft's console.

Say whatever you will, Sony's partnership with Ericsson still produces the highest quality phones on the market.

Puh-lease. My Sony Ericsson T610 was the worst gadget I have ever owned. I only endured the horrible little piece of crap because I knew an Apple phone was imminent.

Sony Ericsson = junk.

Michael CM1
Mar 4, 2010, 03:54 PM
Surely there will be a MemoryStick slot to keep that lame proprietary format alive. Or maybe extra storage will be available through a MiniDisc.

Readinglevelup
Mar 4, 2010, 03:54 PM
Jeez, Sony is really trying to take out Apple. This and Vaio? Oh mai.

Twylo
Mar 4, 2010, 03:55 PM
... Sony's long-standing leadership position in mobile gaming ...

That's really funny! That's a good one!

Oh man. I sure hope someone lets Nintendo know about Sony's leadership position. They might not be aware of it!

Consultant
Mar 4, 2010, 03:55 PM
Great. Sounds like every company out there is playing a game of follow the leader.

dukebound85
Mar 4, 2010, 03:57 PM
it's not Microsoft's console.


wait a sec, you go outta your way to not by something for the simple fact its from MS?

wow

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 03:57 PM
Sony Ericsson is pretty piss poor tbh.

"Sony's partnership with Ericsson still produces the highest quality phones on the market."

Wow. The phones aren't technically terrible per se, but they just have no idea how to move forward, it's always catch up and the interaction with computer->phone is really clunky. I had one for 4 years, kinda liked it in terms of phone quality but I never bothered using it with my pc after first few weeks, was unbelievably hit and miss, mostly miss. Never again. My new iphone on the other hand... has been wonderful. That was a great purchase, awesome phone.

They lack Mac interaction, but functioned fine with the rest of Sony's computer offerings. I owned a K800i, and that handset was bomb proof. It felt great to hold, solid, took amazing photos and did it's part as a phone with the best call quality I have used. They make their phones with higher quality parts and materials.

As soon as XPERIA releases their keyboard slider running Android, I'm picking it up. I get the feeling Nokia's acquisition of Symbian put a major wrench into the development gears over at SE. I'd like Sony either finish their OS project, or move entirely to Android.

Icaras
Mar 4, 2010, 03:59 PM
Just because Apple is looking to be the Toyota Corolla of the mobile phone market, doesn't mean Sony can't be the BMW. I hate sales figures numbers to tout success. Where is Apple with computers nowadays? 4th? 5th? They still make the best computers.

Apple as the Toyota Corolla of the mobile phone market? We're talking about the iPhone here right? The one that costs $699 unsubsidized and with an app store of over 100,00 apps? That must be one hell of a Corolla then!

The Mac vs. PC has been going on for like the last 3 decades, so I feel it's unfair to compare those with gaming machines, since every successive generation pretty much starts each competitor fresh and new.

So I refer to the PSP vs. DS, specifically, where the DS had only like what? 1 or 2 year lead, and it has easily surpassed the PSP 3 times over in numbers.

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 04:00 PM
wait a sec, you go outta your way to not by something for the simple fact its from MS?

wow

Some of us lead principled lives.

mickhyperion
Mar 4, 2010, 04:01 PM
Competition is good!

ravenvii
Mar 4, 2010, 04:01 PM
What about Xbox 360 RROD in 30% of units or how the drive like to scratch discs.

Not saying Microsoft is perfect either, but from what I hear, they're treating those affected by the problems pretty good considering.

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 04:03 PM
Puh-lease. My Sony Ericsson T610 was the worst gadget I have ever owned. I only endured the horrible little piece of crap because I knew an Apple phone was imminent.

Sony Ericsson = junk.

You're comparing one of the lowest entry market phones against the iPhone. SE has a huge range of devices. Why don't you pick a comparable one in price to the iPhone or other smartphones and then compare build quality. Like the Cybershot 902 handset.

I mean for crying out loud, the T610 was released in 2003, 4 years before any iPhone. Weak.

DARKJ3DI
Mar 4, 2010, 04:03 PM
What are you talking about? Sony's doing better than ever. The PSP is selling great, the PS3 has really been picking up steam for the last year or so, and now they're even ready to make their own tablet to compete with Apple.

I love Apple, but I have a lot of faith in Sony.

I am talking about this; The PSP is trailing the DS and the PS3 momentum is too little too late. Out of the mates I have that have consoles, 15 have xbox 360s; 3 have PS3s. I seriously don't call THAT momentum.

The part about Sony now making a tablet proves my point that they are a has-been, a 'me too!' company like Microsoft. They could have made a tablet years ago that ran Windows Tablet PC edition, but no they didn't. They decided wait for Apple to lead the way.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 04:04 PM
wait a sec, you go outta your way to not by something for the simple fact its from MS?

wow

It's an insurance policy. The chances of disappointment and catastrophic failure are too high to ignore.

AAPLaday
Mar 4, 2010, 04:05 PM
Say whatever you will, Sony's partnership with Ericsson still produces the highest quality phones on the market.

Toss in a PSP like gaming experience and I'm sold. IMO the Cybershot hybrid phones were the best all-in-one devices for the portable market to this date. I'd still be using my SE if I hadn't been robbed at gunpoint 2 years ago.

Cybershot
+
Walkman
+
PSP
+
Sony Ericsson
+
Symbian/Android

This is an exciting all in one device.

I used to like sony mobiles. IMO The last decent phone they made was the k800. Up until i got my iPhone i found Samsung to be the best of the rest.

OldSchoolMacGuy
Mar 4, 2010, 04:06 PM
It's been a long time since Sony DID anything to show us how cool they are rather then just TELL us how cool they are. I don't see this product working out like most of their new products in recent years.

MMX
Mar 4, 2010, 04:08 PM
Agreed - Sony only makes one product worth buying these days: the PS3. And to me it was only worth buying because 1) Blu-Ray and 2) it's not Microsoft's console.



Puh-lease. My Sony Ericsson T610 was the worst gadget I have ever owned. I only endured the horrible little piece of crap because I knew an Apple phone was imminent.

Sony Ericsson = junk.

XBOX 360 is actually pretty good.

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 04:09 PM
Apple as the Toyota Corolla of the mobile phone market? We're talking about the iPhone here right? The one that costs $699 unsubsidized and with an app store of over 100,00 apps? That must be one hell of a Corolla then!

The Mac vs. PC has been going on for like the last 3 decades, so I feel it's unfair to compare those with gaming machines, since every successive generation pretty much starts each competitor fresh and new.

So I refer to the PSP vs. DS, specifically, where the DS had only like what? 1 or 2 year lead, and it has easily surpassed the PSP 3 times over in numbers.

Most people bought the iPhone unsubsidized?

The PSP clearly has the better specs, but because it is higher priced, sold less then the DS. I used the Corolla/BMW example because it is a hypocritical argument I hear all the time related to Apple. Mac desktop sales are ok to be low, because they want to be the luxury dealer. Then you have high iPhone sales, that sell without many features found standard on other devices, and again they are best.

Give me freedom on an iPhone, with a flash, FLASH, better quality camera, and better network. Then I will buy one.

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 04:13 PM
You're comparing one of the lowest entry market phones against the iPhone.

It was not an entry market phone at the time of purchase.

I mean for crying out loud, the T610 was released in 2003, 4 years before any iPhone. Weak.

Oh, I didn't realize your claim of superior Sony Ericsson quality had stipulations. Perhaps you should have added a disclaimer to your comment, like so:

"Sony's partnership with Ericsson still produces the highest quality phones on the market (except for 2003 models or models at sub-iPhone price points - in those cases they're crap)."

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 04:14 PM
Most people bought the iPhone unsubsidized?

The PSP clearly has the better specs, but because it is higher priced, sold less then the DS. I used the Corolla/BMW example because it is a hypocritical argument I hear all the time related to Apple. Mac desktop sales are ok to be low, because they want to be the luxury dealer. Then you have high iPhone sales, that sell without many features found standard on other devices, and again they are best.

Give me freedom on an iPhone, with a flash, FLASH, better quality camera, and better network. Then I will buy one.

You seem to get Macs partially, but you don't get the iPhone at all.

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 04:15 PM
XBOX 360 is actually pretty good.

40% failure rate says otherwise...

Digitalclips
Mar 4, 2010, 04:16 PM
So sad to see the once innovative Sony yet again just following ...

deconstruct60
Mar 4, 2010, 04:16 PM
Sony is having a hard time competing with Microsoft. What makes them think they could compete with Apple or Google?

Compete with Google????? All Sony PCs ship with Chrome as the default browser instead of Internet Explorer!!! Would not be surprising at all to see a Sony slate running some ChromeOS or Android pop out of their labs.

They have already got an Android phone out of Sony-Ericsson
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10389463-94.html


Certainly if the development is skewed toward PSP capability then might be a problem, but if that is an 'add-on' nothing really blocking adoption of Google's potential contributions to their projects.

FRiC
Mar 4, 2010, 04:16 PM
Sony preparing handheld device? I guess it's been long enough that people have forgotten about the Sony CLIÉ.

Make a nice device and then suddenly abandon it...

MH01
Mar 4, 2010, 04:17 PM
If I had a dime for every time I've heard that. That, and the tired "competition is good" line.

"I hope ABC company does well, because that will force/push/compel Apple to innovate."

The thing is, Apple has been "pushing technology further" on their own for years now, and in fact, Apple is usually the one forcing everyone else to up their game.

Apple doesn't respond to market pressures. Apple goes its own way and everyone else follows when they see Apple's success in these new or heretofore untapped areas.

I'd be a billionare if i got a dime everytime you slammed anything that did not have a apple logo on it!!!! And not based on any rationale thinking, just the fact that a product does have a Apple logo on it ppfft!

But on the topic at hand, yeah sony does make some really good products. I would not buy a sony computer, but i use a sony x series walkman, why? cause the damn thing sounds so much better than an ipod. Say what you want, for me the most important thing about a MP3 player is sound, and frankly the ipods do not cut it. Though you would never realise that, cause you would not even think about trying a product that did not have an Apple logo on it, or would you?

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 04:17 PM
It was not an entry market phone at the time of purchase.



Oh, I didn't realize your claim of superior Sony Ericsson quality had stipulations. Perhaps you should have added a disclaimer to your comment, like so:

"Sony's partnership with Ericsson still produces the highest quality phones on the market (except for 2003 models or models at sub-iPhone price points - in those cases they're crap)."

As I recall the Xperia was one of the earlier "iPhone Killer" casualties. Talk about a mismatch . . . looks like 2010 isn't much better than 2003.

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 04:18 PM
It's an insurance policy. The chances of disappointment and catastrophic failure are too high to ignore.

Failure or not, I don't support the greatest pack of imagination-less weasels that has ever done business with my dollars.

goobot
Mar 4, 2010, 04:18 PM
Are there keys missing in your keyboard by chance?

And you must be smoking to dismiss Nintendo and Sony as competitors. Both companies are proven industry standards in the mobile gaming space, with Nintendo dominating handhelds since the first Gameboy in the 80s. Microsoft on the other hand, has done nothing.



Yea, and the whole phone would just glow red and probably auto self destruct.

because the psp go and ds xl are so amazing

koruki
Mar 4, 2010, 04:19 PM
As a former fan of Sony (back in the late 90's) I have to say they have really sank beyond belief, they are so unfocused. Their only semi-success was the Playstation in this decade.

I think their problem is they still have the idea stuck in their head that they are big enough to be in every market.

I recently bought a photo frame from sony and I actually wished it didnt have their brand on the front cause I almost dont want to admit I've spent money on their brand anymore.

They've lost the music player front to Apple, now they are losing the Console front to Microsoft, yet instead of trying to improve in those areas, they have dived head first into the DSLR market against the likes or Nikon/Canon. lol, good luck to them.

JZ Wire
Mar 4, 2010, 04:20 PM
Trust me when I say, they will mostly likely find a way to screw it all up.
Just look at their other products. Look at what they did to compete with the ipod. They use proprietary tech and make things quite difficult for the user. Look at what they did to their loyal customers with the PSP Go.
I used to be a big Sony fan but not so much anymore.

BaronStein
Mar 4, 2010, 04:20 PM
First of all, I don't agree with the people that think that sony sucks in laptops. They are actually one of the best PC makers but that's it! They usually have a good quality standards in their hardware but their customer support, marketing and pricing strategy is not good. It all comes to the point that in order to be a market leader you need to be good all-round, not only in hardware or software or something specific.

I usually respect the products that Sony produces, I do know that If I buy a Sony it would give me a product that is at least above average in quality. However, for the past few years, they have come up with so many bad products that made question them. Ps3 slim, some of their ultra portable vaio laptops, their mp3 players, alpha series dslr cameras and the list goes on. And now, there is so much competition that they are losing their respect for their innovative and good quality reputation.

If they ever release a product that is specially made in order to compete with apple's breakthrough and succesful products, it is very likely that they would fail. No offense to Sony fans but that's my prediction.

SandynJosh
Mar 4, 2010, 04:21 PM
I would never purchase a Sony product, I used to be a fan of Sony but got tired of being left in the dark by them with there lack of support for devices that are not the latest on the market. They drop support like rain drops falling out of a cloud during a storm. Case and point:
1) Had a Sony Vio computer with 3 year warranty, HD went bad after 2 years. Sony replaces HD but no OS on the system. They claim that they no longer had a contract with Microsoft for the OS on the series of computer I had and I would have to go out and purchase my own copy of windows for the computer.
2) Had a Sony Clie device, all of a sudden drivers and support site vanish off the face of the earth due to Sony decided they wont sell the device in the US anymore so why would anyone in the US still need support for the device they own?
3) Sony Aibo, I have a few of these, they stop selling them and all support vanishes from the website.
4) Sony Roly, had one of them also but they stooped making them now no support for new version of windows with a device less then a year old.
5) First PSP came out had problem with button getting stuck under the screen, Sony says to bad its the way me made it and you will live with it, this person the head of gaming at Sony was fired after the remark went public and they later fixed the problem but still the Sony Attitude is We are Sony you are not, you will buy what we make and like it even if you don't because we are great.
6) there is much more to say but hey look at apple there devices are still supported going back to the first Ipod, I would like to see Sony show the same type of support for any of the devices they make.

Sony has no concepts about the markets they sell to. They make their products almost useful but manage to get it just wrong enough to not be fully satisfactory. The poor customer service you speak of is part of that cockeyed view of their customers. Too bad, because I'd like them to succeed.

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 04:23 PM
Sony preparing handheld device? I guess it's been long enough that people have forgotten about the Sony CLIÉ.

Make a nice device and then suddenly abandon it...

That reminds me of the second worst gadget I've ever owned (after the Sony Ericsson T610): my Sony Clie. I can't remember the model number - it had a B&W screen that was pretty much unreadable under any lighting condition. What a POS.

If Microsoft didn't own the PS3's primary competitor, I wouldn't own a PS3. Shame, that.

mrochester
Mar 4, 2010, 04:23 PM
If I had a dime for every time I've heard that. That, and the tired "competition is good" line.

"I hope ABC company does well, because that will force/push/compel Apple to innovate."

The thing is, Apple has been "pushing technology further" on their own for years now, and in fact, Apple is usually the one forcing everyone else to up their game.

Apple doesn't respond to market pressures. Apple goes its own way and everyone else follows when they see Apple's success in these new or heretofore untapped areas.

Apple have been 'pushing technology further' because they have competitors. Apple have always had competition, so it's impossible to say that Apple would have done everything they have if they had no competition. Apple aint done anything 'on their own', they have been pushing to be better than what the competition does! When the competition goes one better, Apple tries to outdo them, then they outdo Apple, then Apple outdoes them, so on and so forth.

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 04:23 PM
It was not an entry market phone at the time of purchase.



Oh, I didn't realize your claim of superior Sony Ericsson quality had stipulations. Perhaps you should have added a disclaimer to your comment, like so:

"Sony's partnership with Ericsson still produces the highest quality phones on the market (except for 2003 models or models at sub-iPhone price points - in those cases they're crap)."

No, just compare it to other 2003 handsets available. Like Siemens, or the Nokia 6230. IMO their handsets had the superior quality. Comparing a handset 4 years older then the iPhone is pretty silly. A lot of stuff happened technology wise in those 4 years.

MH01
Mar 4, 2010, 04:25 PM
As a former fan of Sony (back in the late 90's) I have to say they have really sank beyond belief, they are so unfocused. Their only semi-success was the Playstation in this decade.

I think their problem is they still have the idea stuck in their head that they are big enough to be in every market.

I recently bought a photo frame from sony and I actually wished it didnt have their brand on the front cause I almost dont want to admit I've spent money on their brand anymore.

They've lost the music player front to Apple, now they are losing the Console front to Microsoft, yet instead of trying to improve in those areas, they have dived head first into the DSLR market against the likes or Nikon/Canon. lol, good luck to them.

Sony did well with the orignal walkmans and diskmans, they dominated with the original playstation, Playstation 2 was also sucessful, PS3 was a blunder.

Completely agree with you in terms of them entering the SLR markert...why?

Macpowered
Mar 4, 2010, 04:25 PM
All "Apple killers", "iPod killers", "iPhone killers" etc. have failed and so will Sony.

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 04:26 PM
You seem to get Macs partially, but you don't get the iPhone at all.

Oh, I get the iPhone, I get it's success, and it's appeal. After all that, I still don't like it. I have a lengthy list of reasons too. Sometimes the list grows, sometimes it shrinks. I'm just not a one-size-fits all kind of guy.

Speedy2
Mar 4, 2010, 04:27 PM
You're comparing one of the lowest entry market phones against the iPhone. SE has a huge range of devices. Why don't you pick a comparable one in price to the iPhone or other smartphones and then compare build quality. Like the Cybershot 902 handset.

I mean for crying out loud, the T610 was released in 2003, 4 years before any iPhone. Weak.

Once, SE produced respectable, I would even say really good hig end phones. That was maybe until 3 years ago. Now they've completely lost their plot. They have NOTHING to compete with current "good" phones. The Satio is just so bad, and when they come out with Android phones, they'll be like a YEAR late to the party. Right now, they are stuck with their low end, old-school handsets that are good for making calls and taking pictures maybe, but the world has moved on big time ...

Right now, I don't believe they will survive in the long run.

(btw, I own a K800i, and I like it for what it is.)

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 04:27 PM
Apple aint done anything 'on their own', they have been pushing to be better than what the competition does! When the competition goes one better, Apple tries to outdo them, then they outdo Apple, then Apple outdoes them, so on and so forth.

Please explain the iPod Touch then.

No, just compare it to other 2003 handsets available. Like Siemens, or the Nokia 6230. IMO they're handsets had the superior quality. Comparing a handset 4 years older then the iPhone is pretty silly. A lot of stuff happened technology wise in those 4 years.

What I'm saying is my only personal experience with a SE product was a horrible one. Try removing your battery from your phone to reboot it a half-dozen times a day. And navigating the interface with a joystick that only worked in one direction was a joy too.

(Maybe that's why people scream about the lack of a replaceable battery in the iPhone - because they're used to Sony Ericsson products.)

whizpup
Mar 4, 2010, 04:28 PM
Sony is having a hard time competing with Microsoft. What makes them think they could compete with Apple or Google?

Sony has been too busy tripping over their own shoelaces the past several years to be much of a threat in my opinion. Sure they can do great industrial design.. often better than Apple but their lack of vision and focus AND their overpowering need to always try to impose their PROPRIETARY versions of of everything cripples them over and over... They never quite got over losing Betamax to VHS ...

lex750
Mar 4, 2010, 04:28 PM
The thing is, Apple has been "pushing technology further" on their own for years now, and in fact, Apple is usually the one forcing everyone else to up their game.


"Pushing Technology Further", Please don't make me laugh. Apple takes a back seat when it comes to Tech, where is Blu-ray, HDMI, core i5/i7 Laptops, where is a REAL tablet, where is the touch screen iMac (they can't even get the LCD to work right on latest model)? Where? All of that and much more is already available AND has been available in the real technology market for some time now. Oh... One more thing. Where is the iPhone camera build in flash? Too much technology to handle, a flash.

I guess you've never been to a CES show. You should go and expand your horizon a bit.

Here is a little taste of what "Pushing Technology Further" really means.

Best Notebook of CES 2010: Lenovo Ideapad U1 Hybrid notebook (Summer 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iki2ohoVyeI

mrochester
Mar 4, 2010, 04:29 PM
No, just compare it to other 2003 handsets available. Like Siemens, or the Nokia 6230. IMO they're handsets had the superior quality. Comparing a handset 4 years older then the iPhone is pretty silly. A lot of stuff happened technology wise in those 4 years.

I'm fast beginning to think that *LTD* and LuganaSol work in Apple marketing with the amount of pro-Apple propaganda they spout, their complete inability to think objectively, and their complete lack of ability to see reason and common sense. You might as well pop outside into your garden, sick in front of a brick wall, and start talking to it. Chances are the brick wall will provide something less benign than the rubbish these two spout.

Speedy2
Mar 4, 2010, 04:29 PM
I am talking about this; The PSP is trailing the DS and the PS3 momentum is too little too late. Out of the mates I have that have consoles, 15 have xbox 360s; 3 have PS3s. I seriously don't call THAT momentum.


To be fair, the PS3 is much stronger outside the US. If you want to go to extremes, go to Asia and ask for people who own an XBox. You won't find that many.

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 04:30 PM
I also agree that Sony has dropped the marketing ball here in the States. That doesn't mean they aren't being successful elsewhere, like Nokia, HTC and a few others. There are other markets out there, and these are 3 foreign companies.

slipper
Mar 4, 2010, 04:30 PM
Will it be able to run Adobe Flash and multitask?

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 04:31 PM
What I'm saying is my only personal experience with a SE product was a horrible one.

Oops, I inadvertently lied on that one. My wife had one of those Sony Walkman phones before she got my 1st gen iPhone. The interface on that phone was pure misery and the joystick-with-button-surrounds navigation was a real PITA (even worse than my T610 when it actually worked). She only used it to make calls because she couldn't figure out how to work the rest of the features (and the hardware didn't make it pleasant to try).

Garbage.

mrochester
Mar 4, 2010, 04:32 PM
Please explain the iPod Touch then.

Sure, right after you've explained how all of Apple's competitors are just a figment of our imaginations, and don't actually exist. Logic, meet LagunaSol, LagunaSol, logic. I assume this is the first time you've met?

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 04:32 PM
I'm fast beginning to think that *LTD* and LuganaSol work in Apple marketing with the amount of pro-Apple propaganda they spout, their complete inability to think objectively, and their complete lack of ability to see reason and common sense. You might as well pop outside into your garden, sick in front of a brick wall, and start talking to it. Chances are the brick wall will provide something less benign than the rubbish these two spout.

Nah, Mac people are a passionate bunch, I should know, I am a Mac person. the iPhone is a passionate extension. This is also a Mac related rumor thread, so any opposing views are seen as treading onto home turf. I enjoy the debate, and I know these are two great guys who have put in a lot of time and thought into their years here on macrumors.

ChazUK
Mar 4, 2010, 04:32 PM
and... yay, Sony devices!

Awesome hardware... ******, ****** software.

All games will come on proprietary memorysticks. in ATRAC format.

man those guys suck.

Sony are now using MicroSD: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/02/AR2009060202701.html
http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Sony_Launches_SD_Cards_with_File_Rescue_Software/551-109478-893.html

SBlue1
Mar 4, 2010, 04:32 PM
i like competition. :)

iTootyFrooty
Mar 4, 2010, 04:33 PM
40% failure rate says otherwise...
It annoys me how people keep saying ooh 30%/40% failure rate. This was a problem fixed with the new chipsets on the Xbox quite a long time ago.

MrSEC
Mar 4, 2010, 04:33 PM
If I had a dime for every time I've heard that.

You would have a dime.;)

Icaras
Mar 4, 2010, 04:34 PM
Most people bought the iPhone unsubsidized?

The PSP clearly has the better specs, but because it is higher priced, sold less then the DS. I used the Corolla/BMW example because it is a hypocritical argument I hear all the time related to Apple. Mac desktop sales are ok to be low, because they want to be the luxury dealer. Then you have high iPhone sales, that sell without many features found standard on other devices, and again they are best.

And those people committed to the 2 year contract. It all add up in the end.

But Mac sales are NOT low. They have proven to be the best selling high priced computers, and on top of that, amidst this recession. Apple is outselling their competitors in their price range. And let's at least agree on one thing: Apple hardly ever has the "best specs" compared to the competition, yet they're premium priced computers and yet they still outsell their competitors. Why?

I'll agree though about gaming for the most part. Pricing in the video game sector is key. But even more key is software. The amount of games the DS has dwarfs the PSPs easily. More than any thing, you need to lure in developers to make games for your platform, or you'll just fall behind.

But it's not impossible to have a premium priced machine and still be #1. Best case example: the Playstation 2, which came out at $400-$500 initially. The rest of course, was history. The Super Nintendo was also premium priced and it held it's ground firmly against the Genesis.

So regardless of pricing, it is still about software and games. If you build it, they will come, so to speak.

Give me freedom on an iPhone, with a flash, FLASH, better quality camera, and better network. Then I will buy one.

Then I'm afraid you will never buy one. :p

HiRez
Mar 4, 2010, 04:36 PM
Touch screen gaming sucks.

It depends what kind of gaming you're talking about. For twitch-finger first-person shooters, it's not ideal. But the gaming world is much larger than that and expanding. Touch screens work well for all kinds of card and puzzle games, Myst-type adventure games, Tomogotchi/virtual pets, and so forth. I think the iPad is ideal for these types of games, which is perfect because Apple is going after non-hardcore users with it anyway, in other words, lots of people who aren't playing cutting-edge FPS at super high resolutions on custom gaming PCs or consoles. A large touch screen would be absolutely fantastic for a real-time strategy game like Starcraft2, potentially even a better interface than a keyboard and mouse. Something like that you can't fix by adding more physical buttons.

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 04:36 PM
Sure, right after you've explained how all of Apple's competitors are just a figment of our imaginations, and don't actually exist. Logic dear, logic.

You're speaking gibberish. The argument was that Apple only improves its products when threatened by competitors' products, and that argument is rubbish. Apple already owned the DAP market with the original iPod. No competitor was anywhere in sight sales-wise. They could have coasted with that product for years (The Microsoft Way (TM)). Yet Apple delivered the iPod Touch anyway.

As many have said before, Apple's #1 competitor is Apple itself.

andrew0122
Mar 4, 2010, 04:37 PM
Competition = Lower Prices and/or BETTER PRODUCTS!

I say good luck Sony I hope you can become the company you once were. Better yet I hope there is an American Company inspired the same way Apple was in the beginning to offer truly amazing products that I want to spend my hard earned money on. . . Now lets just hope Apple or Google doesn't gobble it up for a fraction of it's true worth.

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 04:38 PM
Oops, I inadvertently lied on that one. My wife had one of those Sony Walkman phones before she got my 1st gen iPhone. The interface on that phone was pure misery and the joystick-with-button-surrounds navigation was a real PITA (even worse than my T610 when it actually worked). She only used it to make calls because she couldn't figure out how to work the rest of the features (and the hardware didn't make it pleasant to try).

Garbage.

Meh, I was never thrilled with the software / interface, it was pretty typical compared to all the other handsets at the time. I still have a P900 around somewhere that took a number of beatings and kept going. I'm just saying the hardware felt and responded like it was well made.

That is why I am excited for Android and a decent Symbian update to make it's way onto SE smartphone lineup. If I was excited over just the hardware, I'd be pounding a SE handset on the wall for WinMO failure.

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 04:40 PM
It annoys me how people keep saying ooh 30%/40% failure rate. This was a problem fixed with the new chipsets on the Xbox quite a long time ago.

You want to know annoying? Talk to the legion of owners on their 2nd, 3rd, 4th (or beyond) Xbox. (My brother is on his 3rd).

TennisandMusic
Mar 4, 2010, 04:40 PM
And those people committed to the 2 year contract. It all add up in the end.

But Mac sales are NOT low. They have proven to be the best selling high priced computers, and on top of that, amidst this recession. Apple is outselling their competitors in their price range. And let's at least agree on one thing: Apple hardly ever has the "best specs" compared to the competition, yet they're premium priced computers and yet they still outsell their competitors. Why?

I'll agree though about gaming for the most part. Pricing in the video game sector is key. But even more key is software. The amount of games the DS has dwarfs the PSPs easily. More than any thing, you need to lure in developers to make games for your platform, or you'll just fall behind.

But it's not impossible to have a premium priced machine and still be #1. Best case example: the Playstation 2, which came out at $400-$500 initially. The rest of course, was history. The Super Nintendo was also premium priced and it held it's ground firmly against the Genesis.

So regardless of pricing, it is still about software and games. If you build it, they will come, so to speak.



Then I'm afraid you will never buy one. :p

But Mac's DON'T outsell their competitors. The competitor is Windows! Windows 7 is now up to 100 million copies sold since it launched just a few months ago. Have there been 100 million OSX macs sold in the history of the world? I would doubt it if 3 million macs a quarter is some kind of landmark number. MS now estimates 300 million copies of Windows 7 sold, in 2010 alone.

Sure, Apple sells more high priced machines than any one retailer perhaps, but that's because almost no one else sells 1k+ consumer devices. And that is almost all they sell. So Apple fans brag about it, but it's also a sign of how overpriced they are. 1k+ in the "real world" is workstation range, not cheap desktop or laptop like Apple's line, barring the gimped mac pro.

Ok, so Apple, the sole proprietor of OSX sells more machines than HP or Dell alone. Aggregate everything and Apple hits that magical 4% worldwide share it currently enjoys.

It's really not brain surgery to understand this.

mrochester
Mar 4, 2010, 04:41 PM
You're speaking gibberish. The argument was that Apple only improves its products when threatened by competitors' products, and that argument is rubbish. Apple already owned the DAP market with the original iPod. No competitor was anywhere in sight sales-wise. They could have coasted with that product for years (The Microsoft Way (TM)). Yet Apple delivered the iPod Touch anyway.

As many have said before, Apple's #1 competitor is Apple itself.

I shall expedite a white cane to you right away so that you can find your way out of the Apple store into the big wide world.

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 04:41 PM
This is why I didn't like Apple going Apple Corp. vs. Apple Computer. At some point they "simplified" their offerings so much, that it dumbed down what they had. I saw machines that worked so well helping people become trendy and lose the touch.

Speedy2
Mar 4, 2010, 04:41 PM
The PSP clearly has the better specs, but because it is higher priced, sold less then the DS.

Specs are pretty much irrelevant nowadays. That's what the Wii has made very clear. Also, Sony often implements stupid proprietary technologies (in the case of the PSP those horrible UMDs) and calls them "specs". That game is so over.



I used the Corolla/BMW example because it is a hypocritical argument I hear all the time related to Apple. Mac desktop sales are ok to be low, because they want to be the luxury dealer. Then you have high iPhone sales, that sell without many features found standard on other devices, and again they are best.

You are very much guilty of selectively picking your parameters.

The iPhone is still a very small player in the mobile phone market (market share 1-2%). Even if you take the smartphone market (in which most companies make quite a lot of money, not just Apple), they are only at 18%. How exactly does this fit into your failed Corolla comparison?
Sticking to your methaphor, the iPhone sales could triple and it would still be more similar to BMW than to Toyota in terms of market position.

TennisandMusic
Mar 4, 2010, 04:41 PM
You want to know annoying? Talk to the legion of owners on their 2nd, 3rd, 4th (or beyond) Xbox. (My brother is on his 3rd).

What about the people on their 8th and 9th 2000 dollar iMac? I'd take a few 300 dollar xbox's over that debacle any day. Not that either is good. But one of them is definitely worse.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 04:43 PM
As many have said before, Apple's #1 competitor is Apple itself.

Too true. It's an odd situation, but that's what happens when your attitude about the user's relationship with tech is often in direct opposition to "conventional" knowledge and assumptions.

Apple creates change.

Icaras
Mar 4, 2010, 04:44 PM
But Mac's DON'T outsell their competitors. The competitor is Windows! Windows 7 is now up to 100 million copies sold since it launched just a few months ago. Have there been 100 million OSX macs sold in the history of the world? I would doubt it if 3 million macs a quarter is some kind of landmark number. MS now estimates 300 million copies of Windows 7 sold, in 2010 alone.

Not this again....Macs as in computers, not operating systems. Competitors, as in HP, Sony, Dell, etc... Please, let's stay on subject here.

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/01/npd-90-of-1000-pcs-sold-in-fourth-quarter-2009-were-macs/

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 04:44 PM
MS now estimates 300 million copies of Windows 7 sold, in 2010 alone.

McDonalds sells billions of hamburgers. McDonalds must have awesome hamburgers.

:rolleyes:

Speedy2
Mar 4, 2010, 04:46 PM
40% failure rate says otherwise...

So first it was 30%, now it's 40%?

Anyway, they haven't been failing that often for YEARS now. They fixed the issue. So, the argument is kinda old, just to let you know ...

Also, failure rate has nothing to do with the gaming experience of the platform. Most people never had an issue with their Xbox and are quite happy with it.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 04:46 PM
What about the people on their 8th and 9th 2000 dollar iMac?

Not enough to make a difference.

http://lowendmac.com/newsrev/10mnr/0212.html

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/02/18/apple_leads_2009_customer_satisfaction_survey.html

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/170385/apple_leads_in_customer_satisfaction_survey_despite_slip.html

http://www.thestandard.com/news/2009/12/30/apple-takes-holiday-customer-satisfaction-honors

TennisandMusic
Mar 4, 2010, 04:47 PM
Not this again....Macs as in computers, not operating systems. Competitors, as in HP, Sony, Dell, etc... Please, let's stay on subject here please.

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/01/npd-90-of-1000-pcs-sold-in-fourth-quarter-2009-were-macs/

Yeah but you can't separate that fact. There are MANY places to get a competing product. There is ONE place to get OSX. Why on Earth is that anything to brag about?

You can't say "not this again" when you're talking about straight up facts and reality. If there are 20 places to get a computer X as well as the option to DIY vs. 1 place to get computer Y and no real option to DIY, the supplier of computer Y has no real reason to brag about selling more computers than any one supplier of computer X. It's downright stupid. Especially when the real ratio of computer X to computer Y is literally 20:1.

I think the only thing that warrants the phrase "not this again" would be people saying Apple selling more 1k+ computers than any one retailer is proof of anything at all. Except maybe that they succeed in selling small amounts of greatly overpriced machines. That's ALL this indicates.

ChazUK
Mar 4, 2010, 04:47 PM
What about the people on their 8th and 9th 2000 dollar iMac? I'd take a few 300 dollar xbox's over that debacle any day. Not that either is good. But one of them is definitely worse.

Microsoft haven't fixed RROD for a lot of their customers. Those stuck with RROD prone consoles will never receive a Jasper based replacement to stop them from failing.

Until that happens, all the customer will receive is another machine which will inevitably die (just like that 3 year extended warranty), then they can buy a brand new jasper based 360 and finally move away from RRoD/E74 or whatever it is next....

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 04:48 PM
McDonalds sells billions of hamburgers. McDonalds must have awesome hamburgers.

:rolleyes:

Exactly.

So I like my phones like Burger King. I "Have it My Way". When I can add pickles, lettuce and onions to my iPhone order, I'll be eating at MacDonalds.

carmenodie
Mar 4, 2010, 04:49 PM
Running what lousy desktop OS scaled down to run on a tablet device?

What a joke. Seen it all before.

Bring on the "iPad Killers."

Never gonna happen so dream on buddy!

lex750
Mar 4, 2010, 04:51 PM
Not this again....Macs as in computers, not operating systems. Competitors, as in HP, Sony, Dell, etc... Please, let's stay on subject here.

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/01/npd-90-of-1000-pcs-sold-in-fourth-quarter-2009-were-macs/

Maybe you should have read and quoted the posters entire comment.

But Mac's DON'T outsell their competitors. The competitor is Windows! Windows 7 is now up to 100 million copies sold since it launched just a few months ago. Have there been 100 million OSX macs sold in the history of the world? I would doubt it if 3 million macs a quarter is some kind of landmark number. MS now estimates 300 million copies of Windows 7 sold, in 2010 alone.

Sure, Apple sells more high priced machines than any one retailer perhaps, but that's because almost no one else sells 1k+ consumer devices. And that is almost all they sell. So Apple fans brag about it, but it's also a sign of how overpriced they are. 1k+ in the "real world" is workstation range, not cheap desktop or laptop like Apple's line, barring the gimped mac pro.

Ok, so Apple, the sole proprietor of OSX sells more machines than HP or Dell alone. Aggregate everything and Apple hits that magical 4% worldwide share it currently enjoys.

It's really not brain surgery to understand this.

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 04:52 PM
I'd take a few 300 dollar xbox's over that debacle any day.

And by "few" of course you meant "millions." :rolleyes:

So first it was 30%, now it's 40%?

Did I say 30%?

Anyway, they haven't been failing that often for YEARS now.

YEARS? Really? That's funny, as the console has only been out for what, 4?

Also, failure rate has nothing to do with the gaming experience of the platform. Most people never had an issue with their Xbox and are quite happy with it.

Thank you Apple's Coverflow and Nintendo's Miis for making XBox Live what it is today. It almost helps one deal with the RROD, the fan noise, the overpriced accessories (wireless adapters, hard drives), and the scratched game discs.

And by "most people never had an issue with their Xbox" you mean like 51%?

Raising the Xbox 360 on some kind of pedestal of product awesomeness is hilarious.

TennisandMusic
Mar 4, 2010, 04:53 PM
Maybe you should have read and quoted the posters entire comment.

And maybe the poster shouldn't try to twist things to make a point that doesn't exist. If there were more choices for OSX, like buying a cheaper Dell, or doing it yourself, Apple's sales would drop like a rock.

You simply cannot separate the OS and devices from each other. There are Windows computers and OSX computers. Windows still trounces OSX by leaps and bounds. Any attempt to obfuscate this should be put under.

That's all the poster was trying to do. Apple sells more of their own machines and OS as the sole supplier, than competitors that have 20+ companies in the same space. Big deal.

Speedy2
Mar 4, 2010, 04:56 PM
They have already got an Android phone out of Sony-Ericsson
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10389463-94.html


Yo make it sound as if you could already buy it. You can't. It's been pushed to April, and who knows if they can keep that date. It's gonna be outdated from the start, running only Android 1.6... I know they promised 2.x later, but yeah promises, promises, promises. They didn't promise WHEN.

Icaras
Mar 4, 2010, 04:56 PM
Maybe you should have read and quoted the posters entire comment.

I was trying to save forum space :D

Sorry, but I just don't see how including the OS sales is relevant to hardware sales, which is what I thought we were comparing: premium priced machines vs. cheaper machines.

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 04:56 PM
You simply cannot separate the OS and devices from each other. There are Windows computers and OSX computers. Windows still trounces OSX by leaps and bounds. Any attempt to obfuscate this should be put under.

Seriously! Windows can only be installed on HPs and Dell systems. Why, if they were to try install it on the Mac, you'd need an entire army of people to get that to work. It'd be like a virtual boot camp.

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 04:56 PM
Apple worshipers make me ashamed to be an Apple OSX user.

You don't have to be an "Apple worshipper" to prefer Apple products. And you don't have to be a "gigantic loser" to demand well-designed electronic devices.

But throw the fanboy or cultist card at anyone who disagrees with you. Whatever.

Icaras
Mar 4, 2010, 04:57 PM
Seriously! Windows can only be installed on HPs and Dell systems. Why, if they were to try install it on the Mac, you'd need an entire army of people to get that to work. It'd be like a virtual boot camp.

Uhhh, i bought Windows 7 for my Mac. :confused:

Edit: does my copy of windows count as +1 for the PC market? still :confused:

interestedabit
Mar 4, 2010, 04:58 PM
You're comparing one of the lowest entry market phones against the iPhone. SE has a huge range of devices. Why don't you pick a comparable one in price to the iPhone or other smartphones and then compare build quality. Like the Cybershot 902 handset.

I mean for crying out loud, the T610 was released in 2003, 4 years before any iPhone. Weak.

No real regrets from me either with my lovely (!) orange w800 or whatever it was but stuff has changed and Sony unfortunately hasn't kept itself on the ball. In so many ways alas. I'm not a huge fan of their high priced laptops either having owned one briefly. And when it came to buying a ****off huge tv I went Pana as a lot of the *cutting edge* Sony tvs were shipped with a fault here at the time. On top of this, my sony camcorder came with a design fault when I bought it in 2004. I'd like to believe but.. it's hard. Still like my ps3 but that's about all I have from them now.

TennisandMusic
Mar 4, 2010, 04:59 PM
And by "few" of course you meant "millions."

Umm...Well I've had two xbox 360's personally. One did fail. One is still fine, though I never really play it. My friend has a launch day console that still runs great. Yes millions crapped out, but there are millions of bad 2000 dollar iMac's out there too. Are you upset about those?

Here are some questions. Does Steve Jobs ever make a mistake? Has he ever had a wrong opinion? Does Apple as a company ever make any missteps? Have they ever ripped off the consumer? I really want your take on this.

You don't have to be an "Apple worshipper" to prefer Apple products. And you don't have to be a "gigantic loser" to demand well-designed electronic devices.

But throw the fanboy or cultist card at anyone who disagrees with you. Whatever.

Look at your sig. How can that NOT be a cultist or fanboy like statement? It's freakin bizarre man! :D

I have plenty of "well designed" electronic devices that are not made by Apple. In fact some of my worst products are Apple. That would be my mac and my iPhone, which I will be moving away from as soon as my contract is up this year (sweet freedom!).

carmenodie
Mar 4, 2010, 05:02 PM
GIVE ME A BREAK! GIVE ME A DANG ON BREAK!!!!
Sony knew exactly what they were suppose to do with the psp and that was to put in a decent browser and throw on a 2nd stick. Sony's tired old snail paced iteration model has been pwnd!
Apple has the BEST browser in a portable device. Tell me why the ******* Sony couldn't get off its a** and do the same.
If Apple threw dual analog sticks on the touch as an option the psp/pspgo would be blown away!! The ipod touch is already powerful enough to run the same games as the psp but lacks the proper gaming controls.
Sony makes me sick with their carrot in front of the horse's mouth games. Sc** them.

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 05:04 PM
Yes millions crapped out, but there are millions of bad 2000 dollar iMac's out there too. Are you upset about those?

Millions of bad iMacs? O RLY???

Link please?

(I just purchased two new iMacs for family members (one 27", one 22"). No display issue with either one.)

Here are some questions. Does Steve Jobs ever make a mistake? Has he ever had a wrong opinion? Does Apple as a company ever make any missteps? Have they ever ripped off the consumer? I really want your take on this.

Of course. If you'd like to peruse my comment history you'd see plenty of examples.

What you're trying to employ is something called the "strawman technique." You're inventing a phony position on my behalf so you can bash it. Alas, I don't think that Apple is perfect, nor anywhere close to perfection. But they sure are a lot better than the alternatives (Dell, Microsoft, etc.).

lex750
Mar 4, 2010, 05:04 PM
And maybe the poster shouldn't try to twist things to make a point that doesn't exist. If there were more choices for OSX, like buying a cheaper Dell, or doing it yourself, Apple's sales would drop like a rock.

You simply cannot separate the OS and devices from each other. There are Windows computers and OSX computers. Windows still trounces OSX by leaps and bounds. Any attempt to obfuscate this should be put under.

That's all the poster was trying to do. Apple sells more of their own machines and OS as the sole supplier, than competitors that have 20+ companies in the same space. Big deal.

"If there were more choices for OSX, like buying a cheaper Dell, or doing it yourself, Apple's sales would drop like a rock."

I totally agree with you on that, and your other post. The simplicity of your logic and reasoning is refreshing. Thanks!

skottichan
Mar 4, 2010, 05:05 PM
Sony is having a hard time competing with Microsoft. What makes them think they could compete with Apple or Google?

Yes, because 34mill PS3's vs 39mill 360's to date, when MS had a year head start and Halo, is a "hard time competing".


With that said, I hope Sony's learned their lesson from the PSP Go pricing fiasco. I'm interested in seeing what Sony can come up with.


Umm...Well I've had two xbox 360's personally. One did fail. One is still fine, though I never really play it. My friend has a launch day console that still runs great. Yes millions crapped out, but there are millions of bad 2000 dollar iMac's out there too. Are you upset about those?



Good for you, i just had my FIFTH Red Ring. And since, what, only 3 million or so Macs (notebooks, iMacs, Mac Pros) sell a quarter... I think if "Millions" of iMacs were bad, I don't think Apple'd survive the consumer **** storm.

Stella
Mar 4, 2010, 05:06 PM
Sony is having a hard time competing with Microsoft. What makes them think they could compete with Apple or Google?

Actually, PS3 has been outselling XBox recently....

EDIT: oh, read more posts and other people have already mentioned this..

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 05:08 PM
Look at your sig. How can that NOT be a cultist or fanboy like statement? It's freakin bizarre man! :D

My sig is an inside joke regarding one of the more notorious anti-Apple shills that camps these forums.

In fact some of my worst products are Apple. That would be my mac and my iPhone, which I will be moving away from as soon as my contract is up this year (sweet freedom!).

Uh huh.

Enjoy your Dellburger.

Raima
Mar 4, 2010, 05:10 PM
Sony won't be able to take on apple. Their business model won't attract the support it needs to make it viable.

I remember I couldn't find information on obtaining the SDK for psp which was difficult to obtain and on top of that there was a fee. Good luck to Sony, they really need to break out of the old traditional style of thinking.

DARKJ3DI
Mar 4, 2010, 05:13 PM
To be fair, the PS3 is much stronger outside the US. If you want to go to extremes, go to Asia and ask for people who own an XBox. You won't find that many.

Yeah, i will find that most of them have a Wii

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 05:13 PM
Yes, because 34mill PS3's vs 39mill 360's to date, when MS had a year head start and Halo, is a "hard time competing".

Actually, PS3 has been outselling XBox recently....

Indeed. It's Microsoft that's going to have a "hard time competing" against the PS3, which gives you Blu-ray, Bluetooth, built-in wireless, and free network gaming at the same price as the Xbox.

I bet Microsoft will pump out yet another version of Halo (http://www.bungie.net/Projects/Reach/default.aspx) to try to keep the dream alive.

dopipod
Mar 4, 2010, 05:13 PM
I put down my psp the day I got my first iPhone. I welcome this news though, in the spirit of competition. If Sony bring out a slick tablet/netbook with USB/connectivity; camera and other features lacking in the ipad then it will push Apple to improve their device. Let's hope Sony have worked out how to make a browser after the laughable attempt on the psp

PandaOnslaught
Mar 4, 2010, 05:14 PM
It's not that Sony is bad, its just that every thing they make you can get a different product thats 10x better for the same exact price, they hold way to much faith in their name, when their products are just good and not great. seriously i haven't bought anything Sony related since ps3 launch, and i totally regret that purchase. they always promise a lot and deliver nothing.

Dagless
Mar 4, 2010, 05:15 PM
Nah, I'm all for competition for Apple but Sony?

Their PSP is behind the DS. The PS3 is behind the Xbox and Wii. The Walkman is behind the iPod. I'd rather they focus on them machines before they dilute the market further.
It's like when the PSP and PS3 came out, Sony touted them as media machines for so long yet what gamers wanted was *trumpets!* games. When they focussed on games they did very well and started to turn their low sales around.

In other words... give us a PSP-4000 :p.

Indeed. It's Microsoft that's going to have a "hard time competing" against the PS3, which gives you Blu-ray, Bluetooth, built-in wireless, and free network gaming at the same price as the Xbox.
No sir that's incorrect.
The cheapest Xbox is £100. The cheapest PS3 is £260.
The most expensive Xbox is £180. The most expensive PS3 is £260.

greg400
Mar 4, 2010, 05:17 PM
The devices will reportedly be designed to take advantage of Sony long-standing leadership position in mobile gaming while also leveraging the company's new media service due for launch this month as a competitor to Apple's iTunes Store.
I lol'd

DS - 127 million sold as of today
PSP - 56 million sold as of today

DS - Games that have sold a million or over - 100
PSP - Games the have sold a million or over - 34

http://vgchartz.com/

The DS also has the the best library of games than ANY other handheld on the market by far.

Honestly, I think Sony should rethink their strategy. They failed miserably against Nintendo and now they are trying to go after Apple and will likely see the same fate. Sony just doesn't learn from their mistakes. They price the PS3 at $600, learn and drop the price to an actually affordable $300. But then they pull the same mistake twice with the PSPgo and instead actually enhancing something on it they ripped out the UMD slot so NONE of your previous games will work and they don't bother adding a second analog stick. Oh and they price it at $250. What a joke. They've lost billions on the PS3 and are still selling it at a loss(granted Microsoft lost billions on the 360 because of how many they've had to replace but that's another story). They screwed the pooch big time this time around.

doctoree
Mar 4, 2010, 05:17 PM
Here are some features the iPad Killer needs:

Full HD Screen running Windows 7 64bit version, multitouch display

Numerous blue and red LEDs as indicator lights

Black, glossy bezzel

Printer Port

Flash
...

If anybody finds sarcasm, you can keep it ;)

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 05:17 PM
Good for you, i just had my FIFTH Red Ring.

Dear Xbox Customer,

Would you rate your Xbox experience as:

( ) So Awesome You'll Shave Your Head and Legally Change Your Name to J
( ) Beyond Excellent
( ) Grrrrrrreat!
( ) Extremely Satisfying

Your feedback is appreciated!

Microsoft

deconstruct60
Mar 4, 2010, 05:20 PM
Ok, so Apple, the sole proprietor of OSX sells more machines than HP or Dell alone.

Not.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/15/acer-eclipsed-dell-and-apple/

http://www.computing.co.uk/computing/news/2258118/pc-market-recovers-europe


http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-and-Notebooks/HP-Dell-Acer-Strengthened-Global-PC-Market-in-2009-249339/
"Apple followed in fifth place,"


Not even true in the over $1K market since the NPD number do not include direct sales and significant fraction of business computers are sold direct.

Apple does manage to sell more computers than the second tier vendors, but to even remotely make them out to be the dominant unit seller is whacked. You have been in the Mac rumor reality distortion field for too long.

Erwin-Br
Mar 4, 2010, 05:22 PM
Threads like this are pretty pointless until we have specs and/or pictures of the device.

skottichan
Mar 4, 2010, 05:23 PM
I bet Microsoft will pump out yet another version of Halo (http://www.bungie.net/Projects/Reach/default.aspx) to try to keep the dream alive.


I hate to admit... I preordered Reach... I'm such a Halo fangirl. Which is odd, because the only games I have for the 360 are the Halo series, Fable 2, Mass Effect 1 & 2, and Left4Dead 1 & 2. For my PS3, I have like a couple dozen games. If I have to choose; like with BioShock 2 or FF13, I always pick the PS3.



Dear Xbox Customer,

Would you rate your Xbox experience as:

( ) So Awesome You'll Shave Your Head and Legally Change Your Name to J
( ) Beyond Excellent
( ) Grrrrrrreat!
( ) Extremely Satisfying

Your feedback is appreciated!

Microsoft

LOLz


Nah, I'm all for competition for Apple but Sony?

Their PSP is behind the DS. The PS3 is behind the Xbox and Wii. The Walkman is behind the iPod. I'd rather they focus on them machines before they dilute the market further.
It's like when the PSP and PS3 came out, Sony touted them as media machines for so long yet what gamers wanted was *trumpets!* games. When they focussed on games they did very well and started to turn their low sales around.

In other words... give us a PSP-4000 :p.


No sir that's incorrect.
The cheapest Xbox is £100. The cheapest PS3 is £260.
The most expensive Xbox is £180. The most expensive PS3 is £260.


A) The PS3 is generally leading monthly sales now.
B) In the US the cheapest 360 is $199, it has no HDD (add $100 for a 60gb vs PS3's 120gb), so $299 for a 360 with a HDD vs $299 for a PS3.

Fern
Mar 4, 2010, 05:23 PM
Smart move by Sony, they should have a clear advantage over the iphone in Japan and have the potential to attract a desent chunk of people, looking for more then the casual games available for the iphone, in other countries. Will be interesting to see what they come up with.

swagi
Mar 4, 2010, 05:24 PM
Millions of bad iMacs? O RLY???

Link please?

(I just purchased two new iMacs for family members (one 27", one 22"). No display issue with either one.)



Of course. If you'd like to peruse my comment history you'd see plenty of examples.

What you're trying to employ is something called the "strawman technique." You're inventing a phony position on my behalf so you can bash it. Alas, I don't think that Apple is perfect, nor anywhere close to perfection. But they sure are a lot better than the alternatives (Dell, Microsoft, etc.).

Jesus Christ - stop this stupid argument, will you.

If I may share my personal experience with you: I'm still using my Powerbook G4 (you know, how old that is).

I bought four (repeat 4) Core Duo 17" iMacs in 2006. I have a personal failure rate of 75% after 2.5 years. One machine is still in good condition.

Second one started vertical line syndrome with a year of age. Currently I have >50 vertical lines.

Third one just blew up after 1.5 years of usage. I still keep it, I I ever find the time to reuse the display in another machine.

Fourth one not only has annoying vertical line syndrome (started after 2 years of use) but since half a year developed a real freaky behaviour. The first 30 minutes after turning on, the right fifth of the display remains white. All of a sudden display returns to normal (i.e. solely vertically striped) mode.

So given my personal failure rate of 75% I refuse to buy an iMac ever again. Oh - lied. Had to buy a first gen aluminium iMac. But this one was only once booted in Leopard to use Boot Camp an put Vista on it - so Apple won't mess with my firmware again.

So could we return on topic?

Yeah - all hail to a new Sony product. Hopefully it will work.

PandaOnslaught
Mar 4, 2010, 05:24 PM
[QUOTE=skottichan;9381906]I hate to admit... I preordered Reach... I'm such a Halo fangirl. Which is odd, because the only games I have for the 360 are the Halo series, Fable 2, Mass Effect 1 & 2, and Left4Dead 1 & 2. For my PS3, I have like a couple dozen games. If I have to choose; like with BioShock 2 or FF13, I always pick the PS3.

Thats kinda the opposite of what i do lol, when i pick multi-platform its always on 360, better frame rates, sharper images. ps3 has some great exclusives though!

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 05:27 PM
In fact some of my worst products are Apple. That would be my mac and my iPhone,

Which are actually considered the best products of their kind. It's amazing how you can separate yourself from reality like that.

swagi
Mar 4, 2010, 05:28 PM
Indeed. It's Microsoft that's going to have a "hard time competing" against the PS3, which gives you Blu-ray, Bluetooth, built-in wireless, and free network gaming at the same price as the Xbox.

I bet Microsoft will pump out yet another version of Halo (http://www.bungie.net/Projects/Reach/default.aspx) to try to keep the dream alive.

As an owner of a Wii and a XBox 360 I can tell you from my personal experience: IT'S ALL ABOUT THE GAMES.

No Halo needed. Alan Wake will be cool :D

And the oh so successful Wii: I just found out, that I never really considered buying a Wii game. Strange, isn't it.

But, to support you a little: God of War 3 will be cool and I'm really full of envy. But the first generation PSN issues, are they solved now?

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 05:29 PM
Threads like this are pretty pointless until we have specs and/or pictures of the device.

It's not hard to guess that chances are it'll be yet another [Apple device]-killer that we won't be hearing about anymore two weeks past its release.

Nothing can touch Apple in terms of UI, design, and software ecosystem in the first place, so right off the bat it doesn't look too promising for Sony.

lex750
Mar 4, 2010, 05:30 PM
Nah, I'm all for competition for Apple but Sony?

Their PSP is behind the DS. The PS3 is behind the Xbox and Wii. The Walkman is behind the iPod. I'd rather they focus on them machines before they dilute the market further.
It's like when the PSP and PS3 came out, Sony touted them as media machines for so long yet what gamers wanted was *trumpets!* games. When they focussed on games they did very well and started to turn their low sales around.

In other words... give us a PSP-4000 :p.


No sir that's incorrect.
The cheapest Xbox is £100. The cheapest PS3 is £260.
The most expensive Xbox is £180. The most expensive PS3 is £260.

Well the PS3 is ahead of Apple TV as a "Media Center". Then again Apple TV is last in line, so... anyways, forget it.

Robert M.
Mar 4, 2010, 05:36 PM
What a joke! Sony or Nintendo has nothing to worry about! I love my iPhone and will love my iPad even more, but they will never replace my PSP or DSi! Sony needs to just release the PSP2 and let Apple do what they do...

With all that said, gaming on my iPhone is fun. I buy a bunch of games from the Appstore. But I can't play Pokemon: Heart Gold or God Of War: Chains of Olympus on my iPhone!! :cool:

lex750
Mar 4, 2010, 05:37 PM
Which are actually considered the best products of their kind. It's amazing how you can separate yourself from reality like that.

Considered "the best" by whom? Apple fanboys. Of course they are THE best. Sure.

greg400
Mar 4, 2010, 05:38 PM
As an owner of a Wii and a XBox 360 I can tell you from my personal experience: IT'S ALL ABOUT THE GAMES.

And the oh so successful Wii: I just found out, that I never really considered buying a Wii game. Strange, isn't it.

Yes, it is strange because here a few quality games that you are missing out on:
Super Mario Galaxy
Metroid Prime Trilogy
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
No More Heroes
No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle
Little King's Story
Muramasa The Demon Blade
Madworld
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom
Punch Out!!
Boom Blox
Wario Land: Shake It
Mario Kart Wii
Excitebots
de Blob
Zack & Wiki

Wiiware games such as:
Nyxquest Kindred Spirits
Tetris Party
Lost Winds
Lost Winds: Winter of the Melodias
World of Goo

As well as games coming out later this year including:
Monster Hunter Tri
Red Steel 2
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Xenoblade
Metroid Other M
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Zelda Wii

But yeah, if it's all about the games then you should buy some. ;)

Robert M.
Mar 4, 2010, 05:39 PM
[QUOTE=skottichan;9381906]I hate to admit... I preordered Reach... I'm such a Halo fangirl. Which is odd, because the only games I have for the 360 are the Halo series, Fable 2, Mass Effect 1 & 2, and Left4Dead 1 & 2. For my PS3, I have like a couple dozen games. If I have to choose; like with BioShock 2 or FF13, I always pick the PS3.

Thats kinda the opposite of what i do lol, when i pick multi-platform its always on 360, better frame rates, sharper images. ps3 has some great exclusives though!

Yeah FF13 is going be better on the PS3! :)

Raima
Mar 4, 2010, 05:40 PM
In other words... give us a PSP-4000 :p.

I got a psp-3000, I won't be touching a psp-4000 at all. Now that you've brought it up, I should look at selling my psp-3000. It's been totally replaced with the iPhone.

Dagless
Mar 4, 2010, 05:42 PM
B) In the US the cheapest 360 is $199, it has no HDD (add $100 for a 60gb vs PS3's 120gb), so $299 for a 360 with a HDD vs $299 for a PS3.

I've made do with just a 20gb drive which I was given for free, but lets not throw opinion into the ring. It's still much cheaper to start gaming on the Xbox. Over here you also get a free bunch of arcade games as standard, some shops also throw in extra controllers and games. Whereas the PS3 comes with no free games unless the shop does, and perusing the Game website you don't get any extras

MMX
Mar 4, 2010, 05:42 PM
40% failure rate says otherwise...

It has nothing to do with experience. I have one of the first XBOX 360 and it still runs like Swiss clock. It's sad that so much had defects, but it's still great. Great performance and a lot of good games. Stop trolling.

sxdev
Mar 4, 2010, 05:44 PM
It's not that Sony is bad, its just that every thing they make you can get a different product thats 10x better for the same exact price, ...

No sir,, no one ever came close to Sony portable DAT players. Mine was one of the best products (and last Sony product) I have ever owned.

swagi
Mar 4, 2010, 05:46 PM
Yes, it is strange because here a few quality games that you are missing out on:
Super Mario Galaxy
Metroid Prime Trilogy
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
No More Heroes
No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle
Little King's Story
Muramasa The Demon Blade
Madworld
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom
Punch Out!!
Super Paper Mario
Boom Blox
Wario Land: Shake It
Mario Kart Wii
de Blob
Zack & Wiki

Wiiware games such as:
Nyxquest Kindred Spirits
Tetris Party
Lost Winds
Lost Winds: Winter of the Melodias
World of Goo

As well as games coming out later this year including:
Monster Hunter Tri
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Metroid Other M
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Zelda Wii

But yeah, if it's all about the games then you should buy some. ;)

Thanx for that comprehensive list. I have to admit, I considered some of them (especially Madworld) - but, hmmmm, how to put it...

...I just found out I'm not into that Mario/Zelda stuff anymore. Great games they may be (and I won't argue about that, as it's a matter of taste), but not my style. YMMV.

I'd rather use Street Fighter IV, Forza 3, Dantes Inferno or BioShock 2 currently. Just my taste. As I said, YMMV, so thanks for that list. Maybe I will have some of those titles as rentals in the near future. :D

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 05:46 PM
As an owner of a Wii and a XBox 360 I can tell you from my personal experience: IT'S ALL ABOUT THE GAMES.

Uncharted 2 & Little Big Planet.

The days of the PS3 having no good games are over. Microsoft has only one arrow left in their quiver in this battle, and that's XBL (which they charge for). Sony seems to have the clear upper hand going forward.

And the oh so successful Wii: I just found out, that I never really considered buying a Wii game. Strange, isn't it.

I own a Wii and a bunch of games (and many hundreds of fun gaming with the family and solo), but I've lost interest in the little fella since I got the PS3. If Nintendo thinks they can keep rolling with this gen without a serious hardware update they're deluded.

But, to support you a little: God of War 3 will be cool and I'm really full of envy.

Me, I wish I had L4D2 for PS3. Ah well.

But the first generation PSN issues, are they solved now?

I dunno, I have the Slim. My understanding is the problem has been resolved - a calendar issue with the processor (apparently the same one that killed the Zune last year?).

skottichan
Mar 4, 2010, 05:47 PM
Considered "the best" by whom? Apple fanboys. Of course they are THE best. Sure.

Umm, off hand? Consumer Reports.


And please, if we were to disparage current owners, then no company would rate well.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 05:48 PM
Considered "the best" by whom? Apple fanboys. Of course they are THE best. Sure.

The industry. Consumers. Pundits. You name it, they're in love with them.\

Apple products are the Gold Standard in design and usability. Been this way for years. And design and usability play big with the industry and consumers alike. Even Apple's competitors love their products, so much so, in fact, that they're copying them furiously.

skottichan
Mar 4, 2010, 05:53 PM
I've made do with just a 20gb drive which I was given for free, but lets not throw opinion into the ring. It's still much cheaper to start gaming on the Xbox. Over here you also get a free bunch of arcade games as standard, some shops also throw in extra controllers and games. Whereas the PS3 comes with no free games unless the shop does, and perusing the Game website you don't get any extras

I threw in no opinion, just facts.

Secondly, if a shop throws in games/controllers, that's fine and dandy. I was just disputing your comment that the 360 is some how significantly cheaper than the PS3. Sure, you can play without a harddrive, but don't expect to be able to play old XBox games, or get on XBL, as a HDD is required.

greg400
Mar 4, 2010, 05:55 PM
Thanx for that comprehensive list. I have to admit, I considered some of them (especially Madworld) - but, hmmmm, how to put it...

...I just found out I'm not into that Mario/Zelda stuff anymore. Great games they may be (and I won't argue about that, as it's a matter of taste), but not my style. YMMV.

I'd rather use Street Fighter IV, Forza 3, Dantes Inferno or BioShock 2 currently. Just my taste. As I said, YMMV, so thanks for that list. Maybe I will have some of those titles as rentals in the near future. :D

There were 4 Mario games(missing out on Galaxy 1 and 2 will be a huge mistake on your part if you consider yourself a gamer) on that list and 1 Zelda game. I can kind of see how you're not so into Mario even though Galaxy is one of the best games of this generation but not into Zelda? Oh come on now. I also added some other games coming out later this year so check back at the list if you like.

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 05:57 PM
... I have one of the first XBOX 360 and it still runs like Swiss clock...

Heh heh. If only the XBox were hand crafted with care using the highest quality quartz and gold plated brass alloys known to timepiece making. They instead are made with off the shelf, bargain basement Chinese manufactured parts, hastily, with underpaid workers.

The games sell it, almost nothing anything else. If it weren't for Microsoft usurping Bungie, the XBox would have been a colossal failure. I expect PS3 sales to explode when they release GT5, 3D or not. It is the single reason I don't own a PS3 yet. The game will sell it.

ranReloaded
Mar 4, 2010, 05:58 PM
If I were Sony I would create a custom os specifically for their device.

If I were sony I would create a custom OS for their Vaio PCs.
It's shameful how they boast this 'Sony Style' branding yet
keep bundling Windoze. They should develop the first esthetically
appealing Linux distribution.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 06:01 PM
If I were sony I would create a custom OS for their Vaio PCs.
It's shameful how they boast this 'Sony Style' branding yet
keep bundling Windoze. They should develop the first esthetically
appealing Linux distribution.

That's part of the problem that a lot of these box-assemblers have with differentiation. Some nice hardware here and there . . . but all running Winblows. Nothing to really set one apart from another. But that's universal licensing for ya. Sometimes a race to the bottom on sheer volume sales is a lot easier than putting your foot down and making some radical, fresh changes.

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 06:02 PM
If it weren't for Microsoft usurping Bungie, the XBox would have been a colossal failure.

Technically speaking (business-wise), the Xbox has been a colossal failure.

Hoovering Bungie - most beloved of all Mac developers - is just another reason to despise MS.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 06:06 PM
Technically speaking (business-wise), the Xbox has been a colossal failure.

Hoovering Bungie - most beloved of all Mac developers - is just another reason to despise MS.

Long live The Marathon.

Nemesis
Mar 4, 2010, 06:06 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/03/04/sony-preparing-new-handheld-devices-to-take-on-apple/)


... Sony's plans to develop a new lineup of handheld devices to compete against Apple's iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad.The initiative seems to be an expansion ...

Yawn ...

interestedabit
Mar 4, 2010, 06:10 PM
Considered "the best" by whom? Apple fanboys. Of course they are THE best. Sure.

Why do you bother to post on here? Oh yea you always say.. 'I have pc AND mac and love both!' Doesn't sound like it - your history shows that you have been here to rip Apple since you joined with a few vague posts to support your claim of being neutral or somewhat accepting of owning and perhaps actually liking one of your *treasured* Apple products. A troll will always infiltrate a message board of something they hate and claim to have voice via being bipartisan whereas it's far from the truth.

The use of the word 'fanboy' these days is so tiring and frankly childish. If you can't hold a legitimate argument, pull the 'fanboy' card. 16 year olds are doing on digg, 4chan, youtube, you name it. Maybe you are 16. It's not your fault if so, *everyone* is doing it.

These forums are frequented by people that love apple products - big surprise huh? There are valid arguments against Apple and some of their decisions but you are not presenting any. So drop the BS.

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 06:11 PM
Technically speaking (business-wise), the Xbox has been a colossal failure.

Hoovering Bungie - most beloved of all Mac developers - is just another reason to despise MS.

That painful moment is still relived in my mind. It ranks up there with Steve Bartman stealing the slow fly ball from Moises Alou. Boy I miss Bungie :(

Nemesis
Mar 4, 2010, 06:11 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/03/04/sony-preparing-new-handheld-devices-to-take-on-apple/)
... on Sony's plans to develop a new lineup of handheld devices to compete against Apple's iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad.The initiative seems to be an expansion of ...

Sony seems to be peeking in everywhere but doing nothing substantial. It's quite remarkable how such a big company manages to stay way behind in innovation. And when they realise market has changed, they act to late ...
Sony walks the good old way of dinosaurs.
A big yawn ...

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 06:23 PM
That painful moment is still relived in my mind. It ranks up there with Steve Bartman stealing the slow fly ball from Moises Alou. Boy I miss Bungie :(

I doubt we'll ever see stuff this well-made and engrossing ever again . . .

Marathon . . . Durandal's insane and brilliantly funny diatribe, a storyline like no other - a mix of intelligent and intense gameplay, it all made DOOM (back then) look like a high-school coding project. What a series.

BigJimmyC
Mar 4, 2010, 06:23 PM
The industry. Consumers. Pundits. You name it, they're in love with them.\

Apple products are the Gold Standard in design and usability. Been this way for years. And design and usability play big with the industry and consumers alike. Even Apple's competitors love their products, so much so, in fact, that they're copying them furiously.

Dude, you come off as a major shill. If you want any of your comments to be taken seriously, tone it down a bit. The sun does not shine out of Steve Jobs' ass.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 06:24 PM
Dude, you come off as a major shill.

Except that it's all true. Sorry you don't like it. Your not taking it seriously doesn't change what it is.

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 06:27 PM
Dude, you come off as a major shill. If you want any of your comments to be taken seriously, tone it down a bit. The sun does not shine out of Steve Jobs' ass.

Don't know what you're talking about, but something shiny has been shooting out of there.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 06:27 PM
Sony seems to be peeking in everywhere but doing nothing substantial. It's quite remarkable how such a big company manages to stay way behind in innovation. And when they realise market has changed, they act to late ...
Sony walks the good old way of dinosaurs.
A big yawn ...

Sony: the other, less entertaining Microsoft.

MorphingDragon
Mar 4, 2010, 06:32 PM
Sony: the other, less entertaining Microsoft.

At least sony is capable of making a nice looking, usuable and functionable product. :p

http://static.product-reviews.net/wp-content/uploads/ff13-lightning-1.jpg
>^_^>

diamond.g
Mar 4, 2010, 06:35 PM
That painful moment is still relived in my mind. It ranks up there with Steve Bartman stealing the slow fly ball from Moises Alou. Boy I miss Bungie :(

I doubt we'll ever see stuff this well-made and engrossing ever again . . .

Marathon . . . Durandal's insane and brilliantly funny diatribe, a storyline like no other - a mix of intelligent and intense gameplay, it all made DOOM (back then) look like a high-school coding project. What a series.

You guys realize that bungie isn't owned my MS anymore? The brought themselves out after Halo 3.

MorphingDragon
Mar 4, 2010, 06:39 PM
You guys realize that bungie isn't owned my MS anymore? The brought themselves out after Halo 3.

Actually, they split up.

Amnak
Mar 4, 2010, 06:43 PM
I love me some Sony! I do wish they could catch a break or do something radical they are always late to the party. My Sony products are always top quality and I've never had any issues like some of the rest of you. PS3 = :)

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 06:43 PM
You guys realize that bungie isn't owned my MS anymore? The brought themselves out after Halo 3.

The good old days of Bungie are still over. Maybe I'm just being sentimental . . . ;)



At least sony is capable of making a nice looking, usuable and functionable product. :p

http://static.product-reviews.net/wp-content/uploads/ff13-lightning-1.jpg
>^_^>

I have absolutely nothing against the PS3. ;)

SandynJosh
Mar 4, 2010, 06:44 PM
I shall expedite a white cane to you right away so that you can find your way out of the Apple store into the big wide world.

Nah, you keep it, you need it a whole lot more.

PeterQVenkman
Mar 4, 2010, 06:50 PM
I don't know how Sony is going to stop the juggernaut that is the games section on the apple store. It would have to be VERY compelling. They haven't been able to hold their own against the DS. A war on two fronts is going to be very hard when coming from WAY behind.

My iPod touch killed my time on Nintendo DS, and owning a PS3 and a 360 killed my time on Wii. It sits unused in a corner at my parents' house for family get togethers.

ericinboston
Mar 4, 2010, 06:52 PM
Competition is good.

I think Sony will likely have a decent competing device...let's not clamp ourselves into a box and call it a "tablet"...it will be WHATEVER Sony wants it to be.

Apple beat Sony with the iPod invention...Sony's not going to get caught with their pants down on Round 2...with this handheld video game/movie player thingy that Apple releases late in March.

-Eric

MorphingDragon
Mar 4, 2010, 06:54 PM
Competition is good.

I think Sony will likely have a decent competing device...let's not clamp ourselves into a box and call it a "tablet"...it will be WHATEVER Sony wants it to be.

Apple beat Sony with the iPod invention...Sony's not going to get caught with their pants down on Round 2...with this handheld video game/movie player thingy that Apple releases late in March.

-Eric

Rebranded PSP?

slu
Mar 4, 2010, 06:56 PM
Dude, you come off as a major shill. If you want any of your comments to be taken seriously, tone it down a bit. The sun does not shine out of Steve Jobs' ass.

Dude, it's not worth it. The comments of LTD and LagunaSol are so predictable you can set your watch to them. I recommend utilizting your ignore list. It eliminates much of the "noise" that has developed here in the last few years.

On topic, this is not a zero sum game. Sony AND Apple can both be successful in the handheld space. For people like most of us here, Sony will need to differentiate themselves greatly to get us to buy their product because we are so tightly integrated with OS X and iTunes. Apple products are really the only things that integrate easily with those things. But most people don't use OS X. Most people don't use an iPhone. Most people don't have much, if any, DRM audio or video content. If Sony can offer features Apple doesn't, can provide users an easy way to migrate their content to the device, and can offer an easy to use content delivery system, then they can succeed.

It won't be easy, but iTunes started somewhere as well. And iTunes doesn't do everything perfectly. I know several people that hate iTunes and would love to try something else. I don't agree with them, but they are entitled to their opinion, and more choice would be welcome.

PandaOnslaught
Mar 4, 2010, 07:04 PM
[QUOTE=PandaOnslaught;9381913]

Yeah FF13 is going be better on the PS3! :)

fail? hows it going to be better? id looooove for you to show me

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 07:05 PM
Dude, it's not worth it. The comments of LTD and LagunaSol are so predictable you can set your watch to them. I recommend utilizting your ignore list. It eliminates much of the "noise" that has developed here in the last few years.

On topic, this is not a zero sum game. Sony AND Apple can both be successful in the handheld space. For people like most of us here, Sony will need to differentiate themselves greatly to get us to buy their product because we are so tightly integrated with OS X and iTunes. Apple products are really the only things that integrate easily with those things. But most people don't use OS X. Most people don't use an iPhone. Most people don't have much, if any, DRM audio or video content. If Sony can offer features Apple doesn't, can provide users an easy way to migrate their content to the device, and can offer an easy to use content delivery system, then they can succeed.

It won't be easy, but iTunes started somewhere as well. And iTunes doesn't do everything perfectly. I know several people that hate iTunes and would love to try something else. I don't agree with them, but they are entitled to their opinion, and more choice would be welcome.

Sony, unfortunately, bears no resemblance to Apple in terms of management, talent, design philosophy, the fundamentals. Sony requires a radical redefinition of "handheld device" in order to make a real impact. Apple approaches tech from an entirely different place than their competitors. It all comes down to taste, motivation, and attitude - a willingness to refuse to compromise and to head in the opposite direction from licensing, OEMs and all that messy business that just kills the User Experience.

Sony just aint there yet. There is no reason to think their latest me-too attempt will be any different from anyone else's.

That "magic touch" in tech (which puts the User Experience front-and-centre) is extremely rare outside Cupertino.

BTW
Mar 4, 2010, 07:09 PM
So everyone should see where Apple is going by now. The iPad and the revival of the Mac gaming scene will open the door for Apple to build a gaming console. One that will be powered by Apple's own silicon and will have a App store ready for it to plug into to download any of 100s of thousands of apps, games (of course), and other media. This new AppleTV hardware will have an iPad based OS and will come with a magic mouse looking device that is its wireless controller. :cool:

koruki
Mar 4, 2010, 07:11 PM
another thing Sony does which also hurts themselves is constantly trying to create standards. They tried this with the Memory Stick, only recently have they surrendered and put SD card support on their products.

Just yesterday someone in the office need to export photos from their Sony compact, no luck, no one had a MS reader, the connecter was a Sony one, not micro USB. Things like this is just a big F*&^ YOU to the consumer if you ask me.

richman555
Mar 4, 2010, 07:17 PM
I have no love for Sony. It really is one of the few companies I despise. This is the company the basically put Sega out of the console business with a product that at the time was overpriced and overhyped. The PS2 was not any better than the Dreamcast in my opinion. I moved on from my Dreamcast to buy a PS2 because at least they had new games. It failed as soon as the warranty expired with disc read errors.

Since this bleak time, I moved on to Nintendo Gamecube and Wii and I have also moved from Windows to a Mac. Sony is a company that is too large and mismanaged with little to no innovation. The last good Sony product was the Trinitron Television.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 07:21 PM
The last good Sony product was the Trinitron Television.

Those things lasted forever.

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 07:24 PM
another thing Sony does which also hurts themselves is constantly trying to create standards. They tried this with the Memory Stick, only recently have they surrendered and put SD card support on their products.

It also killed them with Compact Discs, Floppy Discs, and Blu-Ray. I really wish Betamax had won out, lousy porn producers.

Friscohoya
Mar 4, 2010, 07:30 PM
Hopefully this makes gen 2 ipad better!

citi
Mar 4, 2010, 07:31 PM
Those things lasted forever.

I still have a 35 inch CRT that my kids use for their primary crappy kids shows, and Wii gaming. Picture is still vibrant, sound still excellent. Too bad it weighs a frickin TON!

For me, Sony Bravia 120hz 52 inch LCD. If that thing last half the life of my Trinitron I will be a happy camper.

AppleMactablet
Mar 4, 2010, 07:49 PM
I bet the Sony Pad will play flash:D

lex750
Mar 4, 2010, 07:49 PM
Why do you bother to post on here? Oh yea you always say.. 'I have pc AND mac and love both!' Doesn't sound like it - your history shows that you have been here to rip Apple since you joined with a few vague posts to support your claim of being neutral or somewhat accepting of owning and perhaps actually liking one of your *treasured* Apple products. A troll will always infiltrate a message board of something they hate and claim to have voice via being bipartisan whereas it's far from the truth.

The use of the word 'fanboy' these days is so tiring and frankly childish. If you can't hold a legitimate argument, pull the 'fanboy' card. 16 year olds are doing on digg, 4chan, youtube, you name it. Maybe you are 16. It's not your fault if so, *everyone* is doing it.

These forums are frequented by people that love apple products - big surprise huh? There are valid arguments against Apple and some of their decisions but you are not presenting any. So drop the BS.

Apple, Microsoft, Sony, Dell, etc, they all have good products AND bad ones too. I'm not just "in love" with one brand and say everything else is garbage.

People here act like Apple is "THE BEST" at "EVERYTHING", while they are not.

I Post on here because I can. If you don't like my posts you can always put me on your ignore list, and you will never see another one of my posts. Simple right? Instead you go through my history to come on here and post your opinion on what I should post and how. That seems pretty lame.

I don't agree with some people on here so I give my opinion. I also agree with some and reaffirm that. That's why it's called a discussion board.

The word troll is played out. It takes less effort to call someone a troll than to debate them on the issue. Maybe you don't really read the entire thread, you just pick and choose.

Here is something I wrote earlier, and was waiting for a debate but I just got called a troll.

Originally Posted by *LTD*
The thing is, Apple has been "pushing technology further" on their own for years now, and in fact, Apple is usually the one forcing everyone else to up their game.

End of quote.

My response.

"Pushing Technology Further", Please don't make me laugh. Apple takes a back seat when it comes to Tech, where is Blu-ray, HDMI, core i5/i7 Laptops, where is a REAL tablet, where is the touch screen iMac (they can't even get the LCD to work right on latest model)? Where? All of that and much more is already available AND has been available in the real technology market for some time now. Oh... One more thing. Where is the iPhone camera build in flash? Too much technology to handle, a flash.

I guess you've never been to a CES show. You should go and expand your horizon a bit.

Here is a little taste of what "Pushing Technology Further" really means.

Best Notebook of CES 2010: Lenovo Ideapad U1 Hybrid notebook (Summer 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iki2ohoVyeI

slackpacker
Mar 4, 2010, 07:59 PM
I really don't have to much faith in sony after the Latest PSP's

Its just so easy to buy stuff on Apple products..... Sony just does not get it. First ya got to click ok sign a license agreement log in with your psp password that is different than everything you have or you had to change it to something else ... its just stupid.

Lets see I hope its true but the way things are going iPad ho

miketcool
Mar 4, 2010, 08:09 PM
I bet the Sony Pad will play flash:D

Thats mean!

abergou
Mar 4, 2010, 08:14 PM
Good! Apple is in dire need of some serious competition on all fronts (it'll get them to do even more).

slu
Mar 4, 2010, 08:24 PM
I really don't have to much faith in sony after the Latest PSP's

Its just so easy to buy stuff on Apple products..... Sony just does not get it. First ya got to click ok sign a license agreement log in with your psp password that is different than everything you have or you had to change it to something else ... its just stupid.

Lets see I hope its true but the way things are going iPad ho

How is that any different than signing up for an iTunes account?

There are many things to criticize Sony about, but this is not one of them.

goobot
Mar 4, 2010, 08:24 PM
360>ps3>wii

inkswamp
Mar 4, 2010, 08:29 PM
The last Sony product I bought was almost 10 years ago. Like the 2 Sony products I'd bought prior to that, it died a couple months past warranty and I was told I was SOL by Sony's "customer relations."

So, yeah... if I'm in the market for anything, including a tablet device, Sony ain't on my shopping list.

360>ps3>wii

Nice Digg impression.

Speedy2
Mar 4, 2010, 08:31 PM
Yeah, i will find that most of them have a Wii

Same goes true for the US.

But that's a different type of gamer... Hardcore gamers don't play Wii. You can bend it all you want... PS3 outsold XBox 360 in Europe and Asia even though it was released a year later.

ranReloaded
Mar 4, 2010, 08:36 PM
Same reaction to the statement - it's simply false. Perhaps the author consoles, not mobile?

I agree. Without giving any concrete data, I think Sony pretty
much ruled during the PS1/PS2 era, and Nintendo regained
leader status arond 2006-2007 with the DS and then the Wii.

Eidorian
Mar 4, 2010, 08:45 PM
Of course. If you'd like to peruse my comment history you'd see plenty of examples.I should have bookmarked that one post. Otherwise you're asking a great leap of faith.

My sig is an inside joke regarding one of the more notorious anti-Apple shills that camps these forums.I still think you're far too paranoid.

Which are actually considered the best products of their kind. It's amazing how you can separate yourself from reality like that.

The industry. Consumers. Pundits. You name it, they're in love with them.\

Apple products are the Gold Standard in design and usability. Been this way for years. And design and usability play big with the industry and consumers alike. Even Apple's competitors love their products, so much so, in fact, that they're copying them furiously.How is someone else's reality better than my own?

I'll be sure to be incapable of independent thought next time.

MorphingDragon
Mar 4, 2010, 08:47 PM
360>ps3>wii

Hey, welcome to 2010. Did ya like your trip?

greg400
Mar 4, 2010, 08:47 PM
360>ps3>wii
opinion>opinion>opinion

Same goes true for the US.

But that's a different type of gamer... Hardcore gamers don't play Wii. You can bend it all you want... PS3 outsold XBox 360 in Europe and Asia even though it was released a year later.
Hardcore gamers don't play Wii? I didn't get the memo.:rolleyes:

I guess these aren't hardcore enough for you?
Super Mario Galaxy
Metroid Prime Trilogy
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
No More Heroes
No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle
Little King's Story
Muramasa The Demon Blade
Madworld
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom
Punch Out!!
Boom Blox
Wario Land: Shake It
Excitebots
de Blob
Zack & Wiki

Wiiware games such as:
Nyxquest Kindred Spirits
Tetris Party
Lost Winds
Lost Winds: Winter of the Melodias
World of Goo

As well as games coming out later this year including:
Monster Hunter Tri
Red Steel 2
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Xenoblade
Metroid Other M
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Zelda Wii

Honestly the people that say such stupid comments such as "hardcore gamers don't play Wii" just really shows you that the person making that comment is far from a "hardcore gamer" themselves.

TMay
Mar 4, 2010, 08:48 PM
"Pushing Technology Further", Please don't make me laugh. Apple takes a back seat when it comes to Tech, where is Blu-ray, HDMI, core i5/i7 Laptops, where is a REAL tablet, where is the touch screen iMac (they can't even get the LCD to work right on latest model)? Where? All of that and much more is already available AND has been available in the real technology market for some time now. Oh... One more thing. Where is the iPhone camera build in flash? Too much technology to handle, a flash.

I guess you've never been to a CES show. You should go and expand your horizon a bit.

Here is a little taste of what "Pushing Technology Further" really means.

Best Notebook of CES 2010: Lenovo Ideapad U1 Hybrid notebook (Summer 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iki2ohoVyeI

You are what I would call a benchracer. Apple sells to a demographic that wants a device that just works. You aren't part of Apple's demographic.

Ironically, they seem to be very successful with their strategy.

Lenovo's hybrid sucks, IMHO, but evidently, I'm not the CES demographic.

MorphingDragon
Mar 4, 2010, 08:51 PM
I should have bookmarked that one post. Otherwise you're asking a great leap of faith.

I still think you're far too paranoid.



How is someone else's reality better than my own?

I'll be sure to be incapable of independent thought next time.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/conspiracy_theories.png

That XKCD comic is so applicable right now its not funny.

MorphingDragon
Mar 4, 2010, 08:54 PM
opinion>opinion>opinion


Hardcore gamers don't play Wii? I didn't get the memo.:rolleyes:

I guess these aren't hardcore enough for you?
Super Mario Galaxy
Metroid Prime Trilogy
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
No More Heroes
No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle
Little King's Story
Muramasa The Demon Blade
Madworld
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom
Punch Out!!
Boom Blox
Wario Land: Shake It
Excitebots
de Blob
Zack & Wiki

Wiiware games such as:
Nyxquest Kindred Spirits
Tetris Party
Lost Winds
Lost Winds: Winter of the Melodias
World of Goo

As well as games coming out later this year including:
Monster Hunter Tri
Red Steel 2
Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
Xenoblade
Metroid Other M
Super Mario Galaxy 2
Zelda Wii

Honestly the people that say such stupid comments such as "hardcore gamers don't play Wii" just really shows you that the person making that comment is far from a "hardcore gamer" themselves.

Saying a harcore gamer plays consoles in general is flat out wrong.

Hardcore gamers spend $5k+ on a computer rig. :rolleyes:

ranReloaded
Mar 4, 2010, 08:57 PM
Actually, it is usually said that the PS3/XBox 360 is more for the hardcore, spec hungry gamer, while the Wii is kind of fcentered around making games that are "fun" despite of the lower specs.

I'd hate to compare this against the iPhone with its easy-to-use interface, app availability and great market share, against Android on phones with more RAM/Pixels/better CPU/Flash/etc., more aimed at techies... :D

LagunaSol
Mar 4, 2010, 09:09 PM
Sony's not going to get caught with their pants down on Round 2...

Given Sony's history the past 20 years - I'll call your bet and raise you an AIBO.

I recommend utilizting your ignore list. It eliminates much of the "noise" that has developed here in the last few years.

There certainly is a lot more "noise" around here as of late, but it's not coming from me or LTD.

I should have bookmarked that one post. Otherwise you're asking a great leap of faith.

:rolleyes:

I still think you're far too paranoid.

You're right, of course. Some posters spend hours and hours here on MacRumors exclusively pimping Microsoft and Dell products because...???

mdriftmeyer
Mar 4, 2010, 09:32 PM
If I were Sony I would create a custom os specifically for their device.

And within 3 years they might be ready.

They will use the Linux Kernel.

mofolo
Mar 4, 2010, 09:38 PM
Sony is a Joke.

They can't even make decent Phones.. let alone a tablet.

Stick to the stuff you know Sony: PS3's and TVs.

HLdan
Mar 4, 2010, 10:01 PM
I find news like this so disturbing. These companies trying to take on Apple's products are so pathetic. How come so many competitors have to make news about creating devices to combat Apple's stuff. It's always about Apple. iPod killers, iPhone killers, Mac look a likes. Sheesh, you certainly don't see Apple making news advertising their products as HP Touchsmart Killers, or HP Tablet Killers, Or Sony Walkman Killers or Microsoft Zune Killers. Wonder why???:p

entatlrg
Mar 4, 2010, 10:11 PM
We've had nothing but bad luck with Sony, PS3's aside.

TV's and computers, camera's and phones in the last 20 years I bought a lot of Sony products. They USED to be good, not anymore in my opinion.

Here's a great read about the Company ...

http://gizmodo.com/5477633/how-sony-lost-its-way

Sony sucks.

MorphingDragon
Mar 4, 2010, 10:17 PM
Sony is a Joke.

They can't even make decent Phones.. let alone a tablet.

Stick to the stuff you know Sony: PS3's and TVs.

Depends which country you go to.

Sony Erricson is THE phone of choice here.

intel
Mar 4, 2010, 10:23 PM
In my opinion, gaming is actually one of those few features, where the iPad will succeed. For people like me, who don't even see the need for a Playstation or wouldn't have a Wii, the iPad is ideal. Oops, that come out the wrong way!


This is where i can disagree with you...

The ipad like the iphone may play a few games.. but sony already has all their PSP games under their belt. An never underestimate how much an extra 4 or 5 buttons or touch sensitive outer edges benefits a game (that apple has not included on the ipad and what sony most likely will).

This is where sony shines as a competitor to apple's ipad just as the google/htc alliance competes with apple in the phone area. (Granted... no other company polishes a product inside and out like apple does.) mmmm shiny apples. I like the red ones.

intel
Mar 4, 2010, 10:26 PM
Depends which country you go to.

Sony Erricson is THE phone of choice here.

As opposed to what??

here they buy a lot of cars made by kia. It doesn't mean it's a better choice.

iMouse
Mar 4, 2010, 10:37 PM
But Halo is SO OSSSUM!!!!

when you rotate your 360, it shows you the real Halo ring!

Mr. Gates
Mar 4, 2010, 10:38 PM
As if Apple's stupid little iPhone games can even think about making a snappy comeback to a Real Gaming company like SONY .

HA

SONY will wipe the board Clean !

This is not a discussion,

It has become sad.

Apple isn't going to give out medals to the biggest Kiss ass :rolleyes:

Cheer some other Apple news.

This is a good thing and anybody who try's to insult or belittle SONY and the Competition is a Sad Fanboieeeeeee

RazHyena
Mar 4, 2010, 10:39 PM
Sony is the only company that I know of that tries to sell products even more expensive than Apple's products. Have you priced one of their TV's lately?

Marcus

They make the best flat screen tv's. I love my huge Sony screen. Connected to my Apple T.V., too. :D


The quality of their products constitutes a threat to Apple. I'm sure Apple will be suing them, too. For.....something..I dunno what but they'll find something to sue them over.

*LTD*
Mar 4, 2010, 10:52 PM
The quality of their products constitutes a threat to Apple.

Sure it does. LOL

bennifer3000
Mar 4, 2010, 10:57 PM
Sony's business infrastructure cannot handle sustaining a legitimate contender in this market. Too complex, too arrogant, too much pride....

RazHyena
Mar 4, 2010, 11:00 PM
Sure it does. LOL

Is that all, LTD? Where's all that copypasta of yours? You disappoint. :rolleyes:

RazHyena
Mar 4, 2010, 11:04 PM
opinion>opinion>opinion



Yes but, you're not taking into account the staggering damage that all those rogue Wii nunchuks have been causing to all those helpless flat screen t.v's/random glass furniture/ceiling lights/other people's faces. :D

Breckenridge
Mar 4, 2010, 11:41 PM
The iPad is going to fail. I will not buy one and really I know many apple fans but they all think the iPad is too large in size and useless without a camera, on device USB support and again the lack of flash support. Apple worshipers, like many of you guys will buy this product and that is perfectly acceptable.

I see a great use for it as a replacemet for the bulk of text books kids have to carry around campus and as a medical chart replacement, however, the lack of a pen like input method is going to make It hard to take notes. Games without buttons aren't fun. A jailed iPhone like OS just sucks.

It will be very interesting to see what others like Sony can do for the market but I am not expecting much from them at this point.

twoodcc
Mar 4, 2010, 11:53 PM
well competition is always good. let's see what sony can do!

srauber
Mar 5, 2010, 12:53 AM
@ *LTD*
Apple is not God and is not a religion :-) There is so much more out in the world and even if some think here they must but they don´t have to defend Apple only buy every product they bring out!!!!
It is enough support for them....
And sure there will be no more competitors for Apple in time ever!!!!
And all the others do is BS :-)

macshill3
Mar 5, 2010, 01:04 AM
Running what lousy desktop OS scaled down to run on a tablet device?

What a joke. Seen it all before.

Bring on the "iPad Killers."

"We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
- Steve Jobs

From a comment from leoc at lwn.net:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU

The words of your self-admitting stealing messiah. :rolleyes:

macshill3
Mar 5, 2010, 01:05 AM
@ *LTD*
Apple is not God and is not a religion :-) There is so much more out in the world and even if some think here they must but they don´t have to defend Apple only buy every product they bring out!!!!
It is enough support for them....
And sure there will be no more competitors for Apple in time ever!!!!
And all the others do is BS :-)

If someone needs to be reprimanded for mental instability, it's *LTD* first.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2uhbkzt.jpg

Bonte
Mar 5, 2010, 01:47 AM
Talk about jailed OS's, the most restrictive of them all would easily be the devices from Sony, don't expect them to be better than Apple. The PSP-go was a first attempt but failed miserably, maybe they learned but don't count on it to much.

Flash on the iPad is useless anyway, its a touch device but the Flash application needs to know where the mouse pointer is. So forget all those games, Flash would only be useful for video, banners and a power drain.

WeegieMac
Mar 5, 2010, 01:54 AM
I'd have been excited about this perhaps 10 years ago, but Sony Computer Entertainment has lost it's way massively and the PlayStation 3 has not shifted the numbers expected by the Sony Corp. However, Sony Corp will be happy enough in that their decision to force Sony Computer Entertainment into using Blu-Ray and using the PlayStation brand as a Blu-Ray trojan horse, paid off.

Back where it matters though, in gaming, the PlayStation 3 is a machine crippled by Blu-Ray and a poor online service in comparison to it's main rival, the Xbox 360. Mandatory installs on major releases (MGS4 installing each chapter as you go through the game shocked me as I played through it), and slow loading times (x2 speed Blu-Ray drive, which is also the reason behind mandatory installs) mean the console is crippled technically when it comes to games.

Add to that the lack of third party exclusives, a major factor in the success of the PlayStation and PlayStation 2, and it's clear that the PlayStation brand doesn't carry the same "aura" it used to ... and that saddens me somewhat.

Given that the PlayStation 3 has sold some 23m units so far, compared to the PlayStation 2 which had shifted near on 70m in the same point in it's lifespan, you can see that exclusives DO make a system.

And, of course, with these handheld devices that play PlayStation Store content ... will the pricing be anywhere near in line with the iTunes Store?

I severely doubt it. Sony has had it's day I'm afraid, and the ironic thing is that it shot itself in the foot to derail it's own future.