PDA

View Full Version : The Wait Continues - and is becoming exciting: Are your expectations for RevD rising?




Jobsian
Mar 5, 2010, 03:08 PM
Initially the wait for an MBA update was a bit glum. Personally speaking, now that the Core-i's have been released with Apple still not showing their hand, my expectations for any Rev D update are rising and every Tuesday that goes by without as much as a whisper from Apple, I'm becoming increasingly excited.

Gone are the days where we would have posted only modest updates (mainly RAM) with mostly the same components. Now, while that still wouldn't be out of the question, most of us seem to be thinking more along the lines of Core-i7, a form of discrete graphics etc.

Week after week, this is actually starting to become enjoyable.

Apple obviously see it fit not to feel rushed into releasing any update on either their MBA or MBP lines, and with the competition already trading their Core-i's, I imagine Apple wouldn't want to release anything that doesn't tear the attention away from the competition.

Where USB 3.0 was essentially a pipe dream in any dreamed update just a few months ago, it doesn't seem quite so unfeasible now. Where one of the lower voltage Core-i7s were only a modest probability, they seem more likely now. The same with SSD storage and some form of discrete graphics.

Maybe there's a major overhaul on the horizon, design change and all? Whatever's up Apple's sleeve, every day that goes by with no change to store.apple.com, I'm expecting something more drastic than just 4GB of RAM if there is to be a RevD MBA :)

Or does anyone think it possible for Apple at this stage just to stick in a 4GB module and ask us to buy it?



bigjnyc
Mar 5, 2010, 04:07 PM
Man I really feel bad for over-optimistic Apple fans like this. They are the ones that get hurt the most when Apple releases minor updates and still trail behind the PC market in specs. How do you think Apple has that absurd amount of cash reserve? they are charging premium prices for old technology by releasing small spec bumps and gradually improving their lineup. They do make great quality products that look beautiful, and are marketing geniuses with a great OS though.... That's how they get you :cool:

alphaod
Mar 5, 2010, 06:01 PM
I just want 4GB, so I can use my developer discount before it expires.

Jobsian
Mar 5, 2010, 07:41 PM
I just want 4GB, so I can use my developer discount before it expires.If all they did was release the same form factor and specs except 4GB RAM, even I'd be mighty tempted, though I really want to see other spec updates/lighter materials/better cooling a la other manufacturers recently.

The Macbook Air is almost the perfect computer for me. Certainly my favourite notebook ever released in the history of computers. Jobs+co hit a home run with the MBA.

Airforcekid
Mar 5, 2010, 09:30 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/7D11)

It will have to be fairly decent I expect high end c2d in the air and i3 in the 13 pro.

alphaod
Mar 5, 2010, 09:54 PM
If all they did was release the same form factor and specs except 4GB RAM, even I'd be mighty tempted, though I really want to see other spec updates/lighter materials/better cooling a la other manufacturers recently.

The Macbook Air is almost the perfect computer for me. Certainly my favourite notebook ever released in the history of computers. Jobs+co hit a home run with the MBA.

I would not be tempted. I want 4GB of RAM, but not enough to dump my perfectly good Rev. C machine for something of nominal difference. In fact, I'd be a little disappointed with Apple.

Scottsdale
Mar 6, 2010, 12:29 AM
Man I really feel bad for over-optimistic Apple fans like this. They are the ones that get hurt the most when Apple releases minor updates and still trail behind the PC market in specs. How do you think Apple has that absurd amount of cash reserve? they are charging premium prices for old technology by releasing small spec bumps and gradually improving their lineup. They do make great quality products that look beautiful, and are marketing geniuses with a great OS though.... That's how they get you :cool:

Yes, I feel really bad for me too...

Onto the point of the thread, and another notch on the belt Jobsian! Definitely as big of a fan as I am... and more willing to start a thread every week declaring his lust for the special "other" or "better-half" in all of our lives in this sad forum section.

The truth is we're all would be buyers who would dump our babies (current MBA) in a heartbeat for a new "better-half" (v 3,1 MBA) with:

Larger Breasts = Dedicated Graphics for an impressive show!

Smarter and can think quick = Core i7-640LM CPU

Better Memory = More RAM

More Educated = 256 GB SSD

Thinner Waistline = Thinner Form Factor

Long Legs that can Go All Day = 7-hour Battery

Prettier Face = HD Display

Longer Hair = Thinner Bezel around “Display”

Prettier Voice = Dual Speakers and Digital Output

Polished Nails = Silver Aluminum capped Keyboard Keys

Smaller Feet = Smaller Footprint with edge to edge Keyboard

Softer Silky-Smooth Skin = Glass Trackpad


Okay, maybe that wasn't a good analogy, but everyone should get the point by now. I am going to stop now before it gets me in trouble, but I could have gone on.

I don't like the wait. In truth, I feel more frustrated with Apple than I ever have with a woman. I have certain expectations, and they’re not that difficult to please. I mean, every other computer company offers spec bump updates about once per quarter. If they don’t offer improvements, the price drops fairly quickly to compensate for the outdated technology. There’s competition in the real world, and that drives prices down and technology upwards. Apple is not good for us to covet their products but it's great for us to own its stock!

I expected my second v 2,1 MBA to last me six months. I really believed the next update wasn't going to be far between with such a minute update on June 2nd 2009 (and same 2,1 MBA designation since October 2008). I expected to see the next MBA as early as October but definitely no later than Mid-January. Here it is two full months past the "worst case scenario," and I am still desperately seeking the v 3,1 MBA. I will say the $700 price-drop with the slight spec bump was acceptable at the time. Now, I am fed up and I want my real MBA and I don't even care what it costs.

My expectations have definitely risen, as I feel there is a much greater potential of a substantial update since so much time has passed since the last update. While I would have been happy with another Core 2 Duo CPU, Nvidia GPU, 4 GB RAM, 192/256 GB SSD, and a glass trackpad before the end of January, that is no longer acceptable. I would have even granted Apple a few more weeks into February. Now, we all have to assume it’s taking Apple this long for a real reason. It makes my expectations much higher and I feel like Apple could really be making improvements with Jobs statement about new upcoming Macs being so much better.

I believe most of us would assume that the graphics is the real change we expect in Apple’s strategy moving forward with its entire Mac lineup. Intel really put an end to the most rewarding update to Macs ever with the termination of using Nvidia GPU/chipsets on Nehalem CPUs. Who could argue a jump of 4X to 5X in graphics performance improvements in Mac notebooks thanks to the 9400m? Apple furthered its reliance on Nvidia by not only incorporating OpenCL to take advantage of the “horsepower” or untapped capabilities of the Nvidia in its OS X 10.6 release, it also used the 9400m across its entire Mac lineup sans Mac Pro! While it still wasn’t a dedicated graphics card, it made a huge improvement over the Intel chipsets and integrated graphics of the past. Intel couldn’t afford to get its arse whipped by Nvidia, so Intel had to play the anti-competitive “BULLY” and push Nvidia out.

Now, we’re all waiting to see how Apple counters the Intel knockout punch to Nvidia. For those that don’t know, Intel claims Nvidia has no license to provide GPUs/chipsets for Nehalem CPUs. Basically, Intel moved part of the components from the chipset onto the CPU. Then it claimed that Nvidia was no longer needed. This was extremely anti-competitive in nature. In the end, all of the same parts are still included between the CPU and chipset except now both parts have to be stamped “Intel.” It really makes me ill, and I am all for Apple leaving the Intel “party” as soon as it’s able to do so with ARM or ATI.

I actually believe the MBA’s current Core 2 Duo CPU is PLENTY of horsepower for the MBA. The current limitations in computing come from the drive speed, software, and graphics limitations. Intel makes people believe the only way to a faster computer is via a new CPU. The truth is the C2D CPU isn’t slowing us down but a 4200 rpm HDD is, so is a slower than capable SSD along with bandwidth limitations in drive controllers. Software isn’t taking advantage of the extra processing powers of the GPU via OpenCL and isn’t taking advantage of the dual cores via Grand Central Dispatch. With Snow Leopard, the job is now up to software developers to write software to speed up the software limitations. Faster graphics would lead to a better overall system performance along with a better SSD and better bandwidth via the drive controller.

The CPU upgrade surely will make an MBA faster but there are other ways. To get this CPU upgrade, Intel expects us to be happy with its Arrandale on Die 45nm GMA IGP. Since Apple has touted the vast improvements of Nvidia over Intel, it’s going to be hard for Apple to get away without providing a dedicated solution now. In addition, the original MBA was so inferior and Apple placed most of that blame off on Intel’s graphics with its marketing of Nvidia’s 4X/5X improvements.

Many have speculated that Nvidia has developed Optimus specifically for Apple’s Mac line of computers. In addition, Nvidia can still take advantage of the Intel IGP to greatly improve the battery performance when its own dedicated graphics are not needed by the system. This has led to some great stats being released about much improved performance and battery capability improvements. However, a Mac mini rumor this week implies as I have suggested that the Nvidia GPU/chipset might live on in Macs. While a computer like the MBP has to get a Core i5/i7 CPU to at least save some face, the MB, MBA, and Mac mini could do just as well with a C2D and Nvidia GPU/chipset at the helm.

However, the longer this plays out, the more likely that Apple is going Core Arrandale CPUs across its Mac line with its next round of updates. That leads to two possibilities for the MBA. One, the MBA loses the Nvidia GPU/chipset and only gets Intel’s IGP for graphics. The second is a dedicated graphics card. With that dedicated graphics solution, the Intel on chip IGP could be turned off or it can be used via hybrid graphics like Optimus. ATI has a similar solution in the works and provides much better dedicated graphics cards. However, an Nvidia 310m would probably be just about right in the MBA (but we could all pray for a 330 GT and accept a 310). That would add about 25% improvement over the current 9400m in the MBA. Add with that the 20% potential CPU improvement and 4 GB of RAM, and we have a heck of an MBA potential with the next update!

However, nothing is guaranteed with Apple. I will be happy with 4 GB RAM, Core 2 Duo CPU, Nvidia 9400m successor, and a glass trackpad, but I am hopeful for and would pay for much more… I just hope Apple wants my money in this 2nd Fiscal Quarter 2010!

I would gladly pay for a powerful MBA with an Intel Core i7-640LM CPU (25W TDP, 4MB L3, 2.13 GHz to 2.93 GHz Boost), Nvidia 330 GT (Optimus preferred), 4 GB RAM (an option to bump to 8 GB for $600 more), 13+" HD display (16:10 aspect ration with a 1440x900 resolution), 256 GB SSD (how about an Intel upgrade for $500), new port selection (USB 3.0, Mini Display Port, Digital Audio [instead of analog]), better camera, better speaker(s), silver aluminum capped keyboard keys, 5-hour battery…

I am hopeful for the best, I am expecting much less, and I am prepared for even the worst – MBA EOL. If Apple doesn’t want my money, Sony can have it. I will be glad to buy a Sony Vaio Z maxed out if Apple cannot upgrade the MBA. With the Core i5 CPU, Nvidia 330 GT, 4 GB RAM, aluminum shell, 256 GB quad SSDs, and etc… it’s the MBA I really want!

That is 35 minutes of my life I will NEVER get back. I hope at least one person appreciates it or two people can point out my ignorance and help me learn something from a mistake or two!

ventro
Mar 6, 2010, 12:40 AM
Apple cares as much about the Macbook Pro update as you care about the next mac mini update. Right now they are focused on one thing: not screwing up the iPad launch. After that, maybe the attention will turn back to Macs.

Jobsian
Mar 6, 2010, 04:24 AM
Yes, I feel really bad for me too...

Onto the point of the thread, and another notch on the belt Jobsian! Definitely as big of a fan as I am... and more willing to start a thread every week declaring his lust for the special "other" or "better-half" in all of our lives in this sad forum section.

The truth is we're all would be buyers who would dump our babies (current MBA) in a heartbeat for a new "better-half" (v 3,1 MBA) with:

Larger Breasts = Dedicated Graphics for an impressive show!

Smarter and can think quick = Core i7-640LM CPU

Better Memory = More RAM

More Educated = 256 GB SSD

Thinner Waistline = Thinner Form Factor

Long Legs that can Go All Day = 7-hour Battery

Prettier Face = HD Display

Longer Hair = Thinner Bezel around “Display”

Prettier Voice = Dual Speakers and Digital Output

Polished Nails = Silver Aluminum capped Keyboard Keys

Smaller Feet = Smaller Footprint with edge to edge Keyboard

Softer Silky-Smooth Skin = Glass Trackpad


Okay, maybe that wasn't a good analogy, but everyone should get the point by now. I am going to stop now before it gets me in trouble, but I could have gone on.

I don't like the wait. In truth, I feel more frustrated with Apple than I ever have with a woman. I have certain expectations, and they’re not that difficult to please. I mean, every other computer company offers spec bump updates about once per quarter. If they don’t offer improvements, the price drops fairly quickly to compensate for the outdated technology. There’s competition in the real world, and that drives prices down and technology upwards. Apple is not good for us to covet their products but it's great for us to own its stock!

I expected my second v 2,1 MBA to last me six months. I really believed the next update wasn't going to be far between with such a minute update on June 2nd 2009 (and same 2,1 MBA designation since October 2008). I expected to see the next MBA as early as October but definitely no later than Mid-January. Here it is two full months past the "worst case scenario," and I am still desperately seeking the v 3,1 MBA. I will say the $700 price-drop with the slight spec bump was acceptable at the time. Now, I am fed up and I want my real MBA and I don't even care what it costs.

My expectations have definitely risen, as I feel there is a much greater potential of a substantial update since so much time has passed since the last update. While I would have been happy with another Core 2 Duo CPU, Nvidia GPU, 4 GB RAM, 192/256 GB SSD, and a glass trackpad before the end of January, that is no longer acceptable. I would have even granted Apple a few more weeks into February. Now, we all have to assume it’s taking Apple this long for a real reason. It makes my expectations much higher and I feel like Apple could really be making improvements with Jobs statement about new upcoming Macs being so much better.

I believe most of us would assume that the graphics is the real change we expect in Apple’s strategy moving forward with its entire Mac lineup. Intel really put an end to the most rewarding update to Macs ever with the termination of using Nvidia GPU/chipsets on Nehalem CPUs. Who could argue a jump of 4X to 5X in graphics performance improvements in Mac notebooks thanks to the 9400m? Apple furthered its reliance on Nvidia by not only incorporating OpenCL to take advantage of the “horsepower” or untapped capabilities of the Nvidia in its OS X 10.6 release, it also used the 9400m across its entire Mac lineup sans Mac Pro! While it still wasn’t a dedicated graphics card, it made a huge improvement over the Intel chipsets and integrated graphics of the past. Intel couldn’t afford to get its arse whipped by Nvidia, so Intel had to play the anti-competitive “BULLY” and push Nvidia out.

Now, we’re all waiting to see how Apple counters the Intel knockout punch to Nvidia. For those that don’t know, Intel claims Nvidia has no license to provide GPUs/chipsets for Nehalem CPUs. Basically, Intel moved part of the components from the chipset onto the CPU. Then it claimed that Nvidia was no longer needed. This was extremely anti-competitive in nature. In the end, all of the same parts are still included between the CPU and chipset except now both parts have to be stamped “Intel.” It really makes me ill, and I am all for Apple leaving the Intel “party” as soon as it’s able to do so with ARM or ATI.

I actually believe the MBA’s current Core 2 Duo CPU is PLENTY of horsepower for the MBA. The current limitations in computing come from the drive speed, software, and graphics limitations. Intel makes people believe the only way to a faster computer is via a new CPU. The truth is the C2D CPU isn’t slowing us down but a 4200 rpm HDD is, so is a slower than capable SSD along with bandwidth limitations in drive controllers. Software isn’t taking advantage of the extra processing powers of the GPU via OpenCL and isn’t taking advantage of the dual cores via Grand Central Dispatch. With Snow Leopard, the job is now up to software developers to write software to speed up the software limitations. Faster graphics would lead to a better overall system performance along with a better SSD and better bandwidth via the drive controller.

The CPU upgrade surely will make an MBA faster but there are other ways. To get this CPU upgrade, Intel expects us to be happy with its Arrandale on Die 45nm GMA IGP. Since Apple has touted the vast improvements of Nvidia over Intel, it’s going to be hard for Apple to get away without providing a dedicated solution now. In addition, the original MBA was so inferior and Apple placed most of that blame off on Intel’s graphics with its marketing of Nvidia’s 4X/5X improvements.

Many have speculated that Nvidia has developed Optimus specifically for Apple’s Mac line of computers. In addition, Nvidia can still take advantage of the Intel IGP to greatly improve the battery performance when its own dedicated graphics are not needed by the system. This has led to some great stats being released about much improved performance and battery capability improvements. However, a Mac mini rumor this week implies as I have suggested that the Nvidia GPU/chipset might live on in Macs. While a computer like the MBP has to get a Core i5/i7 CPU to at least save some face, the MB, MBA, and Mac mini could do just as well with a C2D and Nvidia GPU/chipset at the helm.

However, the longer this plays out, the more likely that Apple is going Core Arrandale CPUs across its Mac line with its next round of updates. That leads to two possibilities for the MBA. One, the MBA loses the Nvidia GPU/chipset and only gets Intel’s IGP for graphics. The second is a dedicated graphics card. With that dedicated graphics solution, the Intel on chip IGP could be turned off or it can be used via hybrid graphics like Optimus. ATI has a similar solution in the works and provides much better dedicated graphics cards. However, an Nvidia 310m would probably be just about right in the MBA (but we could all pray for a 330 GT and accept a 310). That would add about 25% improvement over the current 9400m in the MBA. Add with that the 20% potential CPU improvement and 4 GB of RAM, and we have a heck of an MBA potential with the next update!

However, nothing is guaranteed with Apple. I will be happy with 4 GB RAM, Core 2 Duo CPU, Nvidia 9400m successor, and a glass trackpad, but I am hopeful for and would pay for much more… I just hope Apple wants my money in this 2nd Fiscal Quarter 2010!

I would gladly pay for a powerful MBA with an Intel Core i7-640LM CPU (25W TDP, 4MB L3, 2.13 GHz to 2.93 GHz Boost), Nvidia 330 GT (Optimus preferred), 4 GB RAM (an option to bump to 8 GB for $600 more), 13+" HD display (16:10 aspect ration with a 1440x900 resolution), 256 GB SSD (how about an Intel upgrade for $500), new port selection (USB 3.0, Mini Display Port, Digital Audio [instead of analog]), better camera, better speaker(s), silver aluminum capped keyboard keys, 5-hour battery…

I am hopeful for the best, I am expecting much less, and I am prepared for even the worst – MBA EOL. If Apple doesn’t want my money, Sony can have it. I will be glad to buy a Sony Vaio Z maxed out if Apple cannot upgrade the MBA. With the Core i5 CPU, Nvidia 330 GT, 4 GB RAM, aluminum shell, 256 GB quad SSDs, and etc… it’s the MBA I really want!

That is 35 minutes of my life I will NEVER get back. I hope at least one person appreciates it or two people can point out my ignorance and help me learn something from a mistake or two!
Terrific summary of the state of play Scotts, your contributions are always appreciated! I'm also eying (or should that be...ayeying? :p ) the Vaio Z. Its spec is almost too good to be true, mirroring many of our "dream" MBA update spec list, though unfortunately without USB 3.0

Another thing we have to bear in mind that I've only recently realised is that the Vaio Z's SSDs are non upgradeable by the looks of things (though I haven't seen explicit confirmation of this). So we'd be tied in to whatever stock SSD manufacturer they've chosen, and I highly doubt they're going to be Intel X or OCZ Vertex!

In any next MBA update I'll likely not care that much about the SSD Apple chooses, and hope they use a more ubiquitous connector. Regardless, I'd get the lowest spec SSD/HDD config (that comes with the best CPU/RAM/Graphics spec) and go aftermarket with Runcore/Intel/OCZ etc.

jlblodgett
Mar 6, 2010, 09:30 AM
I still maintain that the MBA does not need a tremendous upgrade to be very marketable.

It needs a newer/faster processor.
It needs more RAM.
It needs the new glass trackpad.

Do those three things, and nothing else and I would buy in a minute.

roxygal9
Mar 6, 2010, 10:08 AM
I still maintain that the MBA does not need a tremendous upgrade to be very marketable.

It needs a newer/faster processor.
It needs more RAM.
It needs the new glass trackpad.

Do those three things, and nothing else and I would buy in a minute.

I agree id buy it with those few upgrades, because I really want to move away from windows. Scottsdale your posts are awesome and very informative. I hope we dont see the MBA go away, and I hope they have something to stack against the Sony VAIO Z. It seems almost like Sony came out with that product on purpose to target the Apple MBA and MBP. Maybe I ma wrong, being new to the Apple game. I find it fun that we wait, but impatient all the same. As of right now I dont want the ipad, but if apple updates there computers soon, I may look at it as a side purchase. But I already have an ipod touch, not sure what i could do with ipad. Not like I am going to go running with the ipad on my arm lol!

:D

crh3ff
Mar 6, 2010, 12:44 PM
I still maintain that the MBA does not need a tremendous upgrade to be very marketable.

It needs a newer/faster processor.
It needs more RAM.
It needs the new glass trackpad.

Do those three things, and nothing else and I would buy in a minute.

ditto'd. I am waiting ("patiently" might be an exaggeration...) for the next update of the MB line...Air etc. I'd buy the current Air if it weren't for the fact that it's due for an update, so anything they do in RevD is just icing on the cake.

Here that Steve? I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU MONEY! The longer you wait, the longer it is until you get it.

Mr Dobey
Mar 8, 2010, 03:47 PM
I have money in hand waiting for the MacBook Air revision . . . are you listening Apple?

mattwolfmatt
Mar 8, 2010, 04:15 PM
Apple cares as much about the Macbook Pro update as you care about the next mac mini update. Right now they are focused on one thing: not screwing up the iPad launch. After that, maybe the attention will turn back to Macs.

You're right, they are a pretty small company with not much cash reserves. They can't handle more than one thing on their plate at once. :rolleyes:

glitch44
Mar 8, 2010, 06:51 PM
You're right, they are a pretty small company with not much cash reserves. They can't handle more than one thing on their plate at once. :rolleyes:

It doesn't matter how much money they have in cash reserves. If you look at previous product launches, they have always focused their attention like a laser on the new product so it sends a single message to the public. Right now that message is you need an ipad and here's when to buy it. An engineer could show Steve a shiny, new Macbook Air model right now and I doubt it would see the light of day until the wifi+3G ipad was successfully launched.

manhattanboy
Mar 8, 2010, 09:16 PM
I have money in hand waiting for the MacBook Air revision . . . are you listening Apple?

crApple doesn't care. They most certainly will NOT release an MBA that is an actual computer and ruin any of the iPad sales

It doesn't matter how much money they have in cash reserves. If you look at previous product launches, they have always focused their attention like a laser on the new product so it sends a single message to the public. Right now that message is you need an ipad and here's when to buy it. An engineer could show Steve a shiny, new Macbook Air model right now and I doubt it would see the light of day until the wifi+3G ipad was successfully launched.

I read over your post just now and it struck a lightbulb :rolleyes:
Yes, I believe this is called a lack of multitasking :D

Scottsdale
Mar 8, 2010, 09:50 PM
crApple doesn't care. They most certainly will NOT release an MBA that is an actual computer and ruin any of the iPad sales

Apple operates on margins... Apple makes far more money per MBA sold than per iPad sold... Apple would rather sell an MBA than a MB, iPad, or even 13" MBP. Apple will make more money on the MBA... it's a gold mine!

I agree Apple wants to sell a lot of iPads, but it isn't stupid and will gladly sell a $1799 MBA over a $499 iPad.

glitch44
Mar 8, 2010, 11:58 PM
Apple operates on margins... Apple makes far more money per MBA sold than per iPad sold... Apple would rather sell an MBA than a MB, iPad, or even 13" MBP. Apple will make more money on the MBA... it's a gold mine!

I agree Apple wants to sell a lot of iPads, but it isn't stupid and will gladly sell a $1799 MBA over a $499 iPad.

They'll gladly sell a MBA, but they're not going to launch a new MBA at least until after the wifi+3G iPad launch. Analysts estimate Apple selling 5 million ipads in 2010 alone. I'm sure they're hoping it'll take off like the iphone, which is on track to sell 33 million units in 2010. Similar price level to the iphone, has a non-data plan option, and it's a "gateway drug" to more Apple purchases. The iPad will be the focus for the next couple months.

rockos
Mar 9, 2010, 08:01 AM
i am getting tired of waiting. might just have to buy some new golf clubs instead.

nigameash
Mar 9, 2010, 05:13 PM
I'm pretty tired of waiting myself, I have a umbp 2.66ghz 09 model atm but I am really considering getting a mba if the rev d is good enough and i've been waiting a few months now and nothings showed up! i dont mind apple telling us about it and releasing it a few months later but i'd at least like to know what i am waiting for!

Scottsdale
Mar 9, 2010, 06:58 PM
I am very no "extremely" close to buying a Sony Vaio Z. I really want a new computer. It's not that the MBA isn't capable of doing what I want, it's just that I feel like I have had the exact same computer since the MBA was updated in October 2008. Some buyers, like myself, just want to update their computers more often than every sixteen months. The June 2009 update wasn't an update at all. It is still a version 2,1 MBA. Most people call it a "rev C" but in reality it's no such thing!

I will probably buy an iPad the day it's released, and I hope it keeps me "busy" enough to wait off until June. But the truth is, I don't feel there is any reason not to buy a Windows 7 computer. Windows 7 is truly as good as OS X, and it has tenfold more availability for applications on the platform.

In addition, the Vaio Z is really much more powerful than a MacBook Pro, yet it's the weight of a MacBook Air. It's hard to ignore a Core i7-620M CPU, 8 GB RAM, Nvidia 330 GT graphics, 256 GB SSD (or up to 512 GB), BLU RAY, seven or eleven hour battery, and a Carbon Fiber option! It starts at $100 more than the upper end MBA, but with options provides nearly anything the buyer wants. It's not as thin as the MBA, but the weight of the MBA is its biggest advantage!

I really don't care about the money. When the June 2009 update came, I was happy with the drop in price, but now I want the real MBA that I dream of. It's not like I am expecting that much, and I am willing to pay extra for every option I want. I could understand Apple's reasoning to drop the BTO options on the June 2009 MBA as it wanted to be able to compete in a poor economy AND MORE IMPORTANTLY NOT HAVING A NETBOOK COMPETITOR. However, now I believe it's time to move on with solidifying the MBA's placement as a primary Mac capable notebook. The iPad ensures Apple competes with and takes advantage of secondary portable tasks, while the MBA provides an ultraportable experience with a notebook level of performance.

I am sick of waiting. I want it now, but I might be able to hold off if I had an iPad to play with. If the iPad is disappointing, which I believe it will be since it cannot even surf the web, I will probably buy a Sony Vaio Z to hold me over until we get an MBA capable of 2010 technologies... meaning one with 4 GB of RAM and a dedicated graphics solution. If an MBA update doesn't happen before WWDC, or if the update happens and is still stuck with 2 GB of RAM, or only has Intel's GMA IGP for graphics, I will have done the right thing to buy a Sony Vaio Z in the first place! I truly hope Apple doesn't disappoint us all this time, AGAIN. It's just too long of a wait for a "dud" update.

iTattoo
Mar 9, 2010, 07:46 PM
It doesn't matter how much money they have in cash reserves. If you look at previous product launches, they have always focused their attention like a laser on the new product so it sends a single message to the public. Right now that message is you need an ipad and here's when to buy it. An engineer could show Steve a shiny, new Macbook Air model right now and I doubt it would see the light of day until the wifi+3G ipad was successfully launched.

I am not so sure this is true. We can learn a lot from history when we take the time to read it.

Check the launch pattern for the iPhone, which at the time was the most important thing the company had done up to that point in their minds.

It was announced in January 07, and launched at the end of June 07. In between the two events, the MP, MBP, MB, ACD and ATV were all updated. Most significantly, one of the highest volume product lines, the MBP was updated approximately 3 weeks prior to the launch of the iPhone, and the MB updated about 6 weeks prior to launch.

The MBA and the MBP will be updated just as soon as they can get them out the door. The delay is not related to the iPad launch. Apple can't afford to sit back for nearly 4 months (from January 19th (ish) date of announcement of January 27th event until the end of the honeymoon after the 3G launch) and let their competitors eat their lunch.

theLimit
Mar 10, 2010, 01:40 AM
I just hope an Air update happens soon. I've just sold my MBP and am currently without a notebook. I have money ready and waiting for a new portable, but I can't wait forever. If Apple don't update their portables this month, I'll have to turn somewhere else, at least for a while. Apple took too long for my liking with the last iMac update, so I ended up with a $700 i5 Hackintosh to tide me over. My portable situation may end up going the same route, unfortunately.

glitch44
Mar 10, 2010, 04:03 AM
I am not so sure this is true. We can learn a lot from history when we take the time to read it.


Yes, we can. So MB and MBP were updated 3 & 6 weeks before the iphone launch with minor C2D chip upgrades and memory bumps. So April 3 minus three weeks is... this week. Where's our new MBA?

1 out of 4 people surveyed said they'd postpone another Apple purchase in order to get an iPad. For Apple to make that trade they really want a successful iPad launch. They're looking to take over a huge % of the the ereader market from Day 1 and pick up a whole new batch of switchers who may have been too stubborn to give up their PCs or their old cell phones for an iPhone, later driving them to pick up MBs or MBPs or iMacs. I believe from now until the 3G+wifi launch the only Apple ads you'll see on TV will be iPad ads, the prime front spots of the Apple stores will be for iPads, and, unfortunately for us, no new shiny laptops until the iPad is deemed successfully launched.

iTattoo
Mar 10, 2010, 08:59 AM
Yes, we can. So MB and MBP were updated 3 & 6 weeks before the iphone launch with minor C2D chip upgrades and memory bumps. So April 3 minus three weeks is... this week. Where's our new MBA?

1 out of 4 people surveyed said they'd postpone another Apple purchase in order to get an iPad. For Apple to make that trade they really want a successful iPad launch. They're looking to take over a huge % of the the ereader market from Day 1 and pick up a whole new batch of switchers who may have been too stubborn to give up their PCs or their old cell phones for an iPhone, later driving them to pick up MBs or MBPs or iMacs. I believe from now until the 3G+wifi launch the only Apple ads you'll see on TV will be iPad ads, the prime front spots of the Apple stores will be for iPads, and, unfortunately for us, no new shiny laptops until the iPad is deemed successfully launched.

I agree with most of what you say. You're right, the majority of the marketing efforts will go towards the new product. I struggle with the concept that Apple will deliberately sacrifice the sales of their best selling computer line for nearly a quarter more. Once the iPad is launched, then the followup of the 3G, and the wifi in ROW (Rest of World), it will be a month or more of Apple not wanting to dilute the spotlight on the new product. Which translates into a June launch for the MBA and MBP - a full year between updates. The iPad is not enough of a reason to do this - there's more to the story.

Guy Mancuso
Mar 10, 2010, 10:58 AM
Well hedging my bets here bought my wife a MBA basic config last night new at the Apple store. I have 14 days to see if a announcement is made than if a announcement is made within those 14 days they tack on another 14 days from that date to return it for the new model. I asked this question specifically on new because i was going for a refrub. otherwise. So March 9th would bring me out to March 23rd to announce a new one. Fingers crossed but have to say as a serious power user of a MBP maxed out with 2 SSD drives in it and 8gbs of ram this thing is actually pretty dang nice. I would never use it for my photography business to process my 40 mpx back images but for what it is , not bad.

colourfastt
Mar 10, 2010, 12:50 PM
I'm quite happy with my Rev C MBA .... I don't need a new revision.

halledise
Mar 10, 2010, 07:33 PM
I'm quite happy with my Rev C MBA .... I don't need a new revision.

Same!!!!!!!!!!

the voice of reason at last :cool:

JCT
Mar 11, 2010, 09:29 AM
I'm still hanging in with an original Rev A + 80GB HDD -- but just barely, the performance difference between my MBA and my other Macs is finally becoming a bit frustrating. Have to say the Rev A has been rock-solid, though being used 3-5 hours a day for 2 years.

As a frequent traveler I am completely sold (read: spoiled by) the form factor -- so while I would love an upgrade (and would order immediately), if this drags on much longer I will consider a Rev C + SSD. Figure that will be enough of a performance kick to hold me for another couple of years....

JT

Santabean2000
Mar 11, 2010, 09:52 AM
i am getting tired of waiting. might just have to buy some new golf clubs instead.

But that's like, outdoor stuff?! What'd you wanna go do something crazy like that for?

It might run your perfectly pasty white skin and hurt your indoor-adjusted eyesight.

crh3ff
Mar 12, 2010, 05:52 AM
to anyone lingering near this thread, the Apple stores have been down for about a half hour (it's 650am EST)...all of them, all over the world, so it'd be strange if that were just for the iPad, which isn't being released everywhere

iMacmatician
Mar 12, 2010, 07:17 AM
Yes, we can. So MB and MBP were updated 3 & 6 weeks before the iphone launch with minor C2D chip upgrades and memory bumps. So April 3 minus three weeks is... this week. Where's our new MBA? It doesn't have to be exactly 3 weeks. And MBPs can be scheduled or "delayed" after the iPad launch date for multiple reasons, but the iPad launch itself may not be one of them.

to anyone lingering near this thread, the Apple stores have been down for about a half hour (it's 650am EST)...all of them, all over the world, so it'd be strange if that were just for the iPad, which isn't being released everywhereGood point there. When was the last time Apple took down the store for a product only in certain countries and were all stores taken down at that time?

crh3ff
Mar 12, 2010, 09:15 AM
to anyone lingering near this thread, the Apple stores have been down for about a half hour (it's 650am EST)...all of them, all over the world, so it'd be strange if that were just for the iPad, which isn't being released everywhere

and...nevermind. WTH, Apple?

glitch44
Mar 12, 2010, 10:08 AM
and...nevermind. WTH, Apple?

Probably updating some backend server stuff to bring all Apple stores up to the same version, even if they don't all get the iPad.

buddy1065
Mar 12, 2010, 02:34 PM
I have money also for the MBA but if the Z comes out first, Apple, I can't promise anything, especially since I have a perfectly fine 15" MBP at home serving as a desktop replacement. I need mobility but I want it soon. I don't see a MBA release before the iPad, though I could be wrong, and Windows 7 alongside OSX for me just may be the best of both worlds.

Scottsdale
Mar 13, 2010, 12:54 AM
I have money also for the MBA but if the Z comes out first, Apple, I can't promise anything, especially since I have a perfectly fine 15" MBP at home serving as a desktop replacement. I need mobility but I want it soon. I don't see a MBA release before the iPad, though I could be wrong, and Windows 7 alongside OSX for me just may be the best of both worlds.

The Sony Z is already out. When I checked it out a few days ago, Sony said would be delivered by March 15, 2010. I would call that "out" or available.

With the update this morning, and the reason to take all sites down... the iPad got its own navigational link up with iPhone, iPod, and Mac. It had to take down the world to add the iPad's own section within the site. Before today, there was just a link to a page from the site's homepage. Now, it's in the directory of the site and it can be navigated to from anywhere on the site.

Bye Bye Baby
Mar 13, 2010, 11:14 AM
I am really disappointed with apple.

I am in the Market for an Air but the price and specs are hopeless.

Needs an i3/5 chip.
SSD as standard
4 GB RAM
PRICE DECREASE.

Then I'll buy. I can take 1 USB and no Ethernet.
I can take no physical drive.

I can't take being ripped off.

Scottsdale
Mar 13, 2010, 01:43 PM
I am really disappointed with apple.

I am in the Market for an Air but the price and specs are hopeless.

Needs an i3/5 chip.
SSD as standard
4 GB RAM
PRICE DECREASE.

Then I'll buy. I can take 1 USB and no Ethernet.
I can take no physical drive.

I can't take being ripped off.

Why do people keep saying a Core i3 CPU? The Core i3 CPUs are all 35W TDP. In addition, the Core i5 doesn't have any low voltage chips as the current MBA has. Most relevant is the fact that the Intel replacement CPU for the SL9x00 Low Voltage CPUs are the Core i7-6x0LM.

I guess people just assume the MBA would get a low-end CPU? But that's senseless because the MBA has an incredibly expensive CPU. In fact, the SL9x00 is more expensive than the Core i7-6x0LM that replaces it.

Even if Apple goes to ULV, there are more choices in the Core i7 series CPUs. And the chip that's most like the current MBA's chip is the ULV Core i7-6x0UM.

A lot of people are clueless to the design and performance of the Intel Core i-series chips. It's all publicly available at Intel.com...

http://www.intel.com/products/processor/index.htm

I think you're WAY OUT OF LINE to expect the specs you listed and a "PRICE DECREASE."

Huubster
Mar 14, 2010, 06:55 AM
No interest at all in the Ipad, not even remotely. And with me many many more.

I am extremely, extremely tempted to get an i7 Vaio Z and install Ubuntu on it. Having said that, I will impatiently wait for the MBA Rev D and then decide which one is more worth it.

southnc
Mar 14, 2010, 11:14 AM
No interest at all in the Ipad, not even remotely. And with me many many more.

I am extremely, extremely tempted to get an i7 Vaio Z and install Ubuntu on it. Having said that, I will impatiently wait for the MBA Rev D and then decide which one is more worth it.
+1

Considering how good the current MBP 13" with SSD is, the MBA is really being squeezed. Apple needs to hit a home run with the next MBA - and soon. In particular, much improved battery life.

Memma
Mar 14, 2010, 11:27 AM
do you think there's a possibility to change the usb2 for usb3 for my air? if they are the same size and everything :rolleyes: that would be cool.. i remember that my dad changed usb1 for usb2 for my pc long time ago and it looked the same and everything.
and yes :p i know that it's bad thing to compare pc and mac on this thing

Huubster
Mar 14, 2010, 12:04 PM
Even if Apple goes to ULV, there are more choices in the Core i7 series CPUs. And the chip that's most like the current MBA's chip is the ULV Core i7-6x0UM.


From a technological and pricing point of view that would be the logical i7 option for a Rev D MBA.

From a marketing point of view I'd say: hmmmm...
They'd have to advert with a slower bus speed and similar processor speeds. That is two bonus points for reasons to buy less. And in Apple tradition marketing decisions often outweigh technical sense.
A much better battery could make the i7-6x0LM an option, but it would probably also make the MBA more expensive than it is now...
Juts thinking out loud...

Wait...edit. Just thinking about the heat the LM would produce compared to the UM...I am inclined to agree with you!

Scottsdale
Mar 14, 2010, 01:51 PM
From a technological and pricing point of view that would be the logical i7 option for a Rev D MBA.

From a marketing point of view I'd say: hmmmm...
They'd have to advert with a slower bus speed and similar processor speeds. That is two bonus points for reasons to buy less. And in Apple tradition marketing decisions often outweigh technical sense.
A much better battery could make the i7-6x0LM an option, but it would probably also make the MBA more expensive than it is now...
Juts thinking out loud...

Wait...edit. Just thinking about the heat the LM would produce compared to the UM...I am inclined to agree with you!

But you're still not factoring in that the Core i7-6x0LM is the Low Voltage CPU that REPLACES the Core 2 Duo Penryn SL9x00 CPUs that are already in the MBA. In addition, the Core i7-6x0LM is ACTUALLY LESS EXPENSIVE than the SL9x00 CPUs - by about $15 each. Again, the MBA uses an expensive CPU with double the cache of the MB and 13" MBP CPUs. Apple really hit a winner with the SL9x00 CPUs.

The thing is they throttle when are heated up... so like I said before the Core i7-6x0UM (ultra low voltage) provides a similar experience to the current SL9x00 CPUs since the SL9x00 is throttled. I wonder if Apple wouldn't just put "Boost to 2.13 and 2.26 GHz instead of marketing the lower clock speed." It was even a big deal when the 2.13 GHz was released and it was reported that the 2.13 performed at a lower percentage of clock speed. Remember that it was throttling down to 1.6 GHz just as the 1.86 GHz CPU, and that led to similar results when throttled.

Bottom line is Apple is going with either another C2D CPU or a Core i7 CPU (with very rare possibility of one Core i5 CPU that would work but not optimal). It is not going to use a Core i3 CPU, and people that say that simply have no clue about the Core i-series CPUs. Most people just assume that the Core i3 is low end, so that's what Apple would use... but Apple NEVER used an inexpensive CPU in the MBA. Where Apple has really spent money on the MBA has been the CPU. The Intel Core system really has people confused, and most people think Core i7 means quad core (because iMac uses a Core i7 that's quad core), but that's not true either. People just don't know about the CPUs, but in five minutes anyone can go figure it out - Intel's site shows exactly how the CPUs work.

Arrandale Mobile CPUs...

Core i3 doesn't boost to higher clock speed, and they're all 35W TDP CPUs - could be used in a WhiteBook or even 13" MBP. They are dual core, Hyper-Thread, and have 3 MB Cache.

Core i5 does boost to higher clock speed, and had both 35W TDP and 18W TDP (ultra low voltage) CPUs - could be used in mid range MBPs. Possible but doubtful for MBA. They are dual core, Hyper-Thread, and have 3 MB Cache.

Core i7 does boost to higher clock speed, offers faster clock speed variants than Core i5, and has (45W TDP not Arrandale), 35W TDP, 25W TDP, and 18W TDP CPUs - 35W TDP could be used in MBP and 25W TDP could be used in MBA (with possibility of 18W TDP ultra low voltage). The Core i7 has both dual core 32nm Arrandale CPUs (and two quad core not Arrandale 45nm CPUs). These Arrandale CPUs are dual core, Hyper-Thread, and have 4 MB L3 Cache. The advantages of Arrandale Core i7 over Core i5 are more L3 Cache and faster clock speeds from same TDP.

http://www.intel.com/products/processor/index.htm

So Core i7 doesn't mean quad core, which is confusing to many because the desktop Core i5/i7 used in the iMac is quad core. And the quad core i7 available isn't an Arrandale CPU and has significantly lower clock speeds than the Mac notebooks have. In addition, Apple uses 35W TDP in its MBs and MBP. A 45W TDP Core i7 quad core CPU would probably be too hot for an MBP.

Huubster
Mar 14, 2010, 02:08 PM
The Intel Core system really has people confused, and most people think Core i7 means quad core (because iMac uses a Core i7 that's quad core), but that's not true either. People just don't know about the CPUs, but in five minutes anyone can go figure it out - Intel's site shows exactly how the CPUs work.

indeed. If it's i7, no way it will be a quad core in an MBP, in addition to heat it eats too much batteries and adds to the price, a lot! Quad core seems more like destined to be for a high-end MBP, if they get the cooling improved!

Otherwise. Thanks for this very interesting analysis!

Scottsdale
Mar 15, 2010, 12:13 AM
indeed. If it's i7, no way it will be a quad core in an MBP, in addition to heat it eats too much batteries and adds to the price, a lot! Quad core seems more like destined to be for a high-end MBP, if they get the cooling improved!

Otherwise. Thanks for this very interesting analysis!

Well, that is why they have two 18W TDP ultra low voltage Core i7s and two 25W TDP low voltage Core i7 CPUs.

Core i7 has nothing to do with requiring more power, it's the high-end version of every range of Arrandale mobile CPU. All Core i-series do Hyper-Threading. The Core i7 does boost which the Core i3 doesn't (Core i5 also does). The Core i7 is the higher clock speed/performance CPUs that also have more L3 cache than the Core i5 CPUs.

No, a 45W TDP quad core CPU isn't going to fit in an MBA, JUST AS A 35W TDP Core i3 CPU isn't going to fit in the MBA. The only 45W TDP quad core Core i7 isn't an Arrandale CPU and is significantly lower clock speeds than even the current MBA's CPU.

Intel's system is confusing as it's no longer just Core 2 Duo means two cores (now how many cores isn't listed with name itself). Specifically, Arrandale provides 32nm CPU vs C2D 45nm CPU. Arrandale provides about a 20% gain for similar clock speed vs C2D. Arrandale provides the GMA IGP right on the CPU as a second 45nm Die. Arrandale also provides lower TDP for a complete solution than the current SL9x00 and Nvidia 9400m GPU/chipset combine together; while the Intel IGP is more energy efficient, it's probably at least a 50% loss in graphics performance from 9400m. Arrandale also means NO Nvidia GPU/Chipset combination unless Apple negotiates a truce between Nvidia and Intel. It is entirely possible that Apple will keep the C2D in the MBA and use the next generation Nvidia GPU/chipset, as there is nothing wrong or lacking with the current C2D CPUs used in the MBA.

Jobsian
Mar 15, 2010, 05:38 PM
Specifically, Arrandale provides 32nm CPU vs C2D 45nm CPU. Arrandale provides about a 20% gain for similar clock speed vs C2D.
That would be my main reason I'd settle for an MBA even if Apple use the ULV 18W TDP i7s, the fastest one (i7-640UM) only just about surpassing RevC's clock numerically when in turbo (2.266GHz), though the non-turbo speed is only 1.2GHz and I have to say that looks anemic. Turbo's functionality remains to be seen by myself, I'd love to see it scrutinized in real life tests.

However if there is to be a RevD, I really hope Apple go straight for the jugular with the LV i7-640LM (25TDP), clocking in at 2.13GHz, 2.933GHz Turbo. Even reading that gets the juices flowing I have to admit. I'd buy it in an absolute instant (assuming Apple do the sane thing and go discrete on graphics), even in the same chassis, I don't care about screen lines, hinges the lot (except if it was boiling hot).

turbineseaplane
Mar 15, 2010, 07:29 PM
I guess it's just me, but I'd *love* a 15" MacBook Air.

With the extra room the battery life could go up and maybe even add in a firewire port (or maybe a universal light peak port that could do a variety of things with dongles) and it could be one sweet and sexy MacBookPro Air.

I wish.

:-)

At this point I guess I should just hope there is a Rev D at all!

Scottsdale
Mar 15, 2010, 10:49 PM
That would be my main reason I'd settle for an MBA even if Apple use the ULV 18W TDP i7s, the fastest one (i7-640UM) only just about surpassing RevC's clock numerically when in turbo (2.266GHz), though the non-turbo speed is only 1.2GHz and I have to say that looks anemic. Turbo's functionality remains to be seen by myself, I'd love to see it scrutinized in real life tests.

However if there is to be a RevD, I really hope Apple go straight for the jugular with the LV i7-640LM (25TDP), clocking in at 2.13GHz, 2.933GHz Turbo. Even reading that gets the juices flowing I have to admit. I'd buy it in an absolute instant (assuming Apple do the sane thing and go discrete on graphics), even in the same chassis, I don't care about screen lines, hinges the lot (except if it was boiling hot).

I don't believe Apple would use an Ultra Low Voltage, but if they did it would be to go with dedicated graphics. I feel that the 25W Low Voltage chip would allow hybrid graphics using Optimus. For me, Optimus just seems like it was built with the Mac notebooks in mind. Apple cannot go all the way back to Intel IGP given its marketing against Intel's IGP. If Apple only uses a dedicated graphics solution, it might have to go ULV. But if it uses Optimus/hybrid solution, it can save power the vast majority of the time. In addition, that chip will scream at boost speeds. Would almost make the MBA more capable than the MBs.


I guess it's just me, but I'd *love* a 15" MacBook Air.

With the extra room the battery life could go up and maybe even add in a firewire port (or maybe a universal light peak port that could do a variety of things with dongles) and it could be one sweet and sexy MacBookPro Air.

I wish.

:-)

At this point I guess I should just hope there is a Rev D at all!

Don't lose faith, the MBA is the heart of Apple's future of Mac notebook designs.

I would consider a 15" MBA or even 17" MBA for around the house. A 17" MBA might weigh in at 3.75 lb, be .5" thick, and have wireless display tech. Could be the perfect desktop when at the desk or couch laptop when away from the desktop. But, I still would want a 13" MBA for travel. We need an expandable display!

glitch44
Mar 15, 2010, 11:10 PM
Didn't the Rev A have overheating problems that weren't entirely fixed until they changed out the 21W TDP chip for a 17W TDP chip? My memory is fuzzy, but I think that's the way it went down. If so, it makes me skeptical about being about to dissipate 25W of heat...

spaceballl
Mar 16, 2010, 01:23 AM
I am getting excited. I feel like if they were just going to swap the CPU out, the laptops would have been refreshed by now! I'm hoping that since they're taking longer, they have more significant changes for us!

Scottsdale
Mar 16, 2010, 03:30 AM
Didn't the Rev A have overheating problems that weren't entirely fixed until they changed out the 21W TDP chip for a 17W TDP chip? My memory is fuzzy, but I think that's the way it went down. If so, it makes me skeptical about being about to dissipate 25W of heat...

The current MBA has a total of 29W TDP including the chipset/GPU 12W and CPU 17W. With Intel, the drop would be 4W TDP... except when dedicated graphics running in hybrid mode with Optimus is using the dedicated Nvidia graphics (the 310m seems like the right card). That solution would give us about 25% more graphics performance when the dedicated card is on, and when it's not on, the Intel IGP would handle basic graphics tasks.

Another possibility is getting a chip without the 45nm GMA die, or Apple can turn off the Intel IGP. A dedicated card is going to add more than 12W, but there are always new alternative technologies. I don't know what the savings of power is for turning off the IGP, but I would assume with Apple wanting to save power, Apple would use Optimus to get performance when needed and battery savings when not needed.

The original MBA had a 21W Merom CPU, while the v 2,1 MBA has the 17W TDP. There was some heat savings there, but also remember the current MBA's CPU is throttled. We simply don't know what Apple can do with cooling, but I don't want an overheated MBA nor do I want an MBA that doesn't have a capable GPU. This is why I would gladly stick it out with the same CPU in the MBA for this update. It could give Apple more time to prepare a worthy graphics solution that will work across entire Mac lineup (minus Mac Pro).

Mr Dobey
Mar 16, 2010, 03:26 PM
Ok it's Tuesday past noon and no update . . . looks like another week of waiting. Seriously this is getting ridiculous. It's been 281 days

glitch44
Mar 16, 2010, 04:58 PM
Ok it's Tuesday past noon and no update . . . looks like another week of waiting. Seriously this is getting ridiculous. It's been 281 days

I think it's a bad idea to bet on an MBA update when the iPad is in the pipeline.

colourfastt
Mar 16, 2010, 06:10 PM
Ok it's Tuesday past noon and no update . . . looks like another week of waiting. Seriously this is getting ridiculous. It's been 281 days

Is there any absolute NEED you have for a new revision?

southnc
Mar 16, 2010, 07:00 PM
Is there any absolute NEED you have for a new revision?
Well, if he had to make a purchase decision soon, then I can understand his NEED.

Right now, imo, the 13" MBP (with SSD) absolutely blows the current MBA right out of the water on virtually every count, including the critical battery life. The only advantage for the MBA is just 1.5 lbs less hefty. Frankly, I cannot see any justification in purchasing the MBA right now.

That means the only choice is to wait for the next revision, which I expect to be substantial, since the 13" MBP is breathing down the MBA's back and is also due for an improvement.

Scottsdale
Mar 16, 2010, 09:12 PM
If I had to buy a computer right now, there is no way I would waste the money on an outdated MBA. With 2 GB of RAM it's forever stuck in the past. A year ago it was acceptable, but it's no longer even close to acceptable. It is too far behind the competitors. I would much prefer a Sony Vaio Z over an MBA if I had to buy right now.

At this point, it seems far less likely that it would be released with an iPad release so soon. However, there were rumors about an update today, and I sorta suckered into those thoughts because two weeks before the iPhone was released, the Macs got updates. Now, who knows? April? Definitely expect new designs and Apple to show them off? Could it be a media presentation in April or May? Why not just wait until June for WWDC?

This is no fun for certain... I am sick of it, and I figured I would only be using this 2,1 for six months. I want more in the terms of RAM. I want to be able to run Windows 7 in a virtual machine. I want other updates for waiting this long too. I don't care about Core i7, as a C2D would be just as well. The MBA has been essentially exactly the same since October 2008, which is more than absurd.

colourfastt
Mar 16, 2010, 10:04 PM
If I had to buy a computer right now, there is no way I would waste the money on an outdated MBA. With 2 GB of RAM it's forever stuck in the past. A year ago it was acceptable, but it's no longer even close to acceptable. It is too far behind the competitors. I would much prefer a Sony Vaio Z over an MBA if I had to buy right now.

At this point, it seems far less likely that it would be released with an iPad release so soon. However, there were rumors about an update today, and I sorta suckered into those thoughts because two weeks before the iPhone was released, the Macs got updates. Now, who knows? April? Definitely expect new designs and Apple to show them off? Could it be a media presentation in April or May? Why not just wait until June for WWDC?

This is no fun for certain... I am sick of it, and I figured I would only be using this 2,1 for six months. I want more in the terms of RAM. I want to be able to run Windows 7 in a virtual machine. I want other updates for waiting this long too. I don't care about Core i7, as a C2D would be just as well. The MBA has been essentially exactly the same since October 2008, which is more than absurd.

Interesting .. I run a VM, Word, Flock, Firefox, Adium, and iChat simultaneously on my Air with NO issues. I hardly consider that to be 'unacceptable'.

iAir
Mar 17, 2010, 12:58 AM
Interesting .. I run a VM, Word, Flock, Firefox, Adium, and iChat simultaneously on my Air with NO issues. I hardly consider that to be 'unacceptable'.


Very well said..:)

Shrek-Moscow
Mar 17, 2010, 02:14 AM
I found this waiting frustrating, I have a rev A with runcore ssd and I started to feel tight.

Probably the actual MBA would be already enough for my today's need but since I tend to keep my laptop for a LONG time, I just cannot accept to buy such an old design machine.

8 GB of RAM and bigger SSD are the minimum acceptable upgrade alongside some minor design retouch like tighter and stronger hinges (I simply cannot live with the scare of them giving up in any moment)

An update in GPU and CPU would be nice as well, like an extended battery life that on "eco" mode should be able to pass the 8 h

Scottsdale
Mar 17, 2010, 07:51 AM
Interesting .. I run a VM, Word, Flock, Firefox, Adium, and iChat simultaneously on my Air with NO issues. I hardly consider that to be 'unacceptable'.

Simple, you're a fanboi. I am too, but I stopped making excuses for Apple's products being so far behind, or below, the competition. If you're really happy running the MINIMUM RAM for each OS, that's your business. I would find it disgusting trying to run OS X alone with any less RAM being allocated for Windows. To run Windows 7 and OS X 10.6, one needs 4 GB of RAM. Sure there are people running servers and doing crazy things with their MBA, but I find running OS X challenging enough with 2 GB of RAM in 2010.

The bottom line is there is no excuse for Apple having its products positioned so far behind its competitors, as it is right now, IN REGARDS TO THE MACS. Anyone that doesn't see it is a fanboi... and is blinded by Sir Jobs and mute to his every word. I love my MBA, but there is NO EXCUSE, in 2010, to have every Mac except the iMac positioned so far behind and below its competitors. It needs an update to every Mac except the iMac (and even needs one there with its low-end version).

Why doesn't Apple want to compete at the top? Why is it so happy with 5% share of the computer market? Apple needs to either actually dominate the high-end market with premium, relevant (which definitely requires current) products, that makes its customers feel they get exactly what they pay for with Macs. Right now, Apple has even its core Mac fan base upset with it. The MacBook Pro is the worst value the MBP has ever been, because it's so very far behind the competition with a sixteen month old graphics system and even shared RAM in its 13" models. There is nothing PRO about the current MacBook PRO. The MBA, while revolutionary when it was introduced, is quickly becoming irrelevant with competitors boasting 8 GB of RAM, hybrid graphics systems, triple the battery life, and Windows 7. The bottom line is system RAM is more important than Apple deemed it, and 2 GB is no longer relevant if it's trying to be a primary Mac doing great things.

I am getting to the point where there just isn't any reason to do this anymore. I am willing to pay Apple a lot of money to make the Mac I really want, and I am a disappointed AAPL shareholder knowing that Apple, Inc. isn't keeping its Mac customers happy. Apple needs to decide if it's going to do Macs right and keep them a fair value for the substantial premium and luxury costs, or tell its customers that it only cares about iPad, iPod, and iPhone sales. Right now, there are only two Macs people should even consider buying... one is a WhiteBook and the other is the iMac. I guess Apple is selling a lot of iMacs for sales to be acceptable with Pro Macs that are nine plus months old each. People aren't getting what they're paying for, and that is a huge problem. When people buy Macs, they justify the costs in their head, because they're normally getting what the expect to be the best computer available for the job. The problem is OS X alone isn't winning that battle anymore, so Apple needs to keep its Macs current and relevant.

I am a disappointed Apple Computer fan, and I feel that my AAPL stock would be a lot more valuable if Apple, Inc. kept its products current and relevant. If updates came every six months, that would be acceptable. But to see thousands of posts daily in the MBP threads reading that people are buying Vaio Zs and other PCs because they're sick of waiting for an update, and they realize that OS X has lost its edge over Windows with version 7. If anyone finds the current situation acceptable, I have to wonder why given the age of technology we're in, and the desire for pros, prosumers, and enthusiasts to spend money but they cannot with their favorite company because it doesn't update its products in a timely fashion. The bottom line is Apple fans aren't getting what they're paying for with year old Mac Pros, nearly ten month old MBPs and MBAs, nine month old iPhones, and seven month old iPods. No other company could do what Apple is doing, and what Apple is doing is killing its Mac and OS X brands all in the name of the iPad.

I am frustrated, and no 2 GB of RAM isn't acceptable in 2010. Remember that your MBA is sharing 256 MB of RAM to the GPU, and has LESS THAN 1 GB for each OS remaining isn't acceptable for a virtual machine environment between OS X 10.6 and Windows 7. These are the two current OSes and they have less than their required minimums each when one factors in the fact that 256 MB is being used by the GPU. Not acceptable and there is no excuse.

iTattoo
Mar 17, 2010, 08:45 AM
At this point, it seems far less likely that it would be released with an iPad release so soon. However, there were rumors about an update today, and I sorta suckered into those thoughts because two weeks before the iPhone was released, the Macs got updates. Now, who knows? April? Definitely expect new designs and Apple to show them off? Could it be a media presentation in April or May? Why not just wait until June for WWDC?
.

One other point. The iPad is only being released in 1 country on the 3rd of April, the other 200ish are later on, a handful at the end of April and more at some other undisclosed date. The US makes up less than 1/2 of Apples revenue now.

There's always something going on at Apple, and it's too big of a company to shut down for months at a time while one single product is rolled out.

iTattoo
Mar 17, 2010, 08:53 AM
Why doesn't Apple want to compete at the top?



Depending on how you measure "top" they may be already. Apple has the distinction of making nearly 6 times the Operating Margin of Dell, and 3 times that of HP. Check out the lower graph here:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/03/17/apples_imac_to_account_for_25_of_global_desktop_growth_in_2010.html

While I agree with you that the current offerings are for the most part stale, or in some cases even worse, the financial results tell another story.

Apple, and in particular Apple share holders are enjoying the ride that they've been on the past few years.

Like you, I hope they don't kill the goose that is laying the golden eggs for them, and begin to strike a better balance between corporate greed and reasonable offerings to customers.

Huubster
Mar 18, 2010, 09:15 AM
Like you, I hope they don't kill the goose that is laying the golden eggs for them, and begin to strike a better balance between corporate greed and reasonable offerings to customers.

Corporate greed and the associated lack of innovation, or even worse, lack of progress makes people move to the competition. Everybody has a limit and Apple is pushing the limit further and further past peoples comfort zone. (except perhaps the devote fanboi whos limit is lightyears away)

I give them until the end of June to release a CONSIDERABLY improved MBA or I'll get the Vaio Z instead.

glitch44
Mar 18, 2010, 09:41 AM
The US makes up less than 1/2 of Apples revenue now.

I hadn't heard that. Do you have a reference link?

Scottsdale
Mar 19, 2010, 02:07 AM
Corporate greed and the associated lack of innovation, or even worse, lack of progress makes people move to the competition. Everybody has a limit and Apple is pushing the limit further and further past peoples comfort zone. (except perhaps the devote fanboi whos limit is lightyears away)

I give them until the end of June to release a CONSIDERABLY improved MBA or I'll get the Vaio Z instead.

That is an incredibly insightful post. Apple is definitely pushing the limits... especially with its MBPs. I am with you, as I will be switching to the Sony Vaio Z if I don't get a completely capable MBA very soon.

To further clarify my position, if the update to the MBA includes an Arrandale CPU, it must have an ATI or Nvidia graphics solution, or I will be leaving the MBA. I cannot accept Intel's GMA IGP as my sole graphics solution. I am fine with using it in a hybrid situation where it can save battery power, but I am not going back to pre-2008 graphics in 2010... just like I am not going back to pre-2009 RAM with less than 4 GB of RAM in 2010.

The next MBA absolutely has to have an Nvidia/ATI graphics card AND 4 GB of RAM. I can work with the rest, but those are absolute requirements.

gri
Mar 19, 2010, 08:16 AM
That is an incredibly insightful post. Apple is definitely pushing the limits... especially with its MBPs. I am with you, as I will be switching to the Sony Vaio Z if I don't get a completely capable MBA very soon.

To further clarify my position, if the update to the MBA includes an Arrandale CPU, it must have an ATI or Nvidia graphics solution, or I will be leaving the MBA. I cannot accept Intel's GMA IGP as my sole graphics solution. I am fine with using it in a hybrid situation where it can save battery power, but I am not going back to pre-2008 graphics in 2010... just like I am not going back to pre-2009 RAM with less than 4 GB of RAM in 2010.

The next MBA absolutely has to have an Nvidia/ATI graphics card AND 4 GB of RAM. I can work with the rest, but those are absolute requirements.

I am more and more geting worried that Apple is leaving the core business and is delaying everything because of the mediocre iPad. The same might happen in June when supposedly the next iPhone comes out (nothing against the iPhone, though...).

ransal1
Mar 19, 2010, 09:27 AM
I am more and more geting worried that Apple is leaving the core business and is delaying everything because of the mediocre iPad. The same might happen in June hen supposedly the next iPhone comes out (nothing against the iPhone, though...).

iPad is a new product launch and they don't want anything else to take the limelight away. Not to mention that they don't want the slightest of the things to take away the revenue such as an MBA update, albeit MBA and ipad more or less target different audience.

They will/will have to definitely update the MBA/MBP lines either before or during the June event. I don't think it has any relation to the iphone update.

Scottsdale
Mar 19, 2010, 03:29 PM
iPad is a new product launch and they don't want anything else to take the limelight away. Not to mention that they don't want the slightest of the things to take away the revenue such as an MBA update, albeit MBA and ipad more or less target different audience.

They will/will have to definitely update the MBA/MBP lines either before or during the June event. I don't think it has any relation to the iphone update.

The thing is Apple updated its Macs two weeks before the original iPhone was released... so there's hope for an update shortly before or after the iPad release. Someone else mentioned that Apple still has to have sales in all of its other countries as the iPad isn't available anywhere except the U.S.

On one hand, an update could happen in April or May, but on the other hand Apple updated its Mac notebooks last year at WWDC where it also showed of the new iPhone 3G S.

One thing I think about though is that the Mac notebooks got a very minor update last June compared to the October 2008 update. We're all expecting huge updates since it has been so long. If Apple had new technologies, new chipsets and graphics, USB 3.0, and a few other new technologies like maybe 3G built-in, AN APPLE MEDIA EVENT REALLY MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. There isn't any reason not to do an April event update.

In addition, we also have to remember Apple isn't even going to probably have enough iPads for its initial launch. I suppose if Apple has 1 million iPads ready for the initial launch we would be seeing commercials hourly for the iPad during primetime TV advertisements... I haven't seen any.

There is no reason not to update the Mac notebooks before WWDC if they're ready. I assume if we get a quiet update via Apple.com, we're not getting any modifications to the designs of the Mac notebooks. Also, there is still the possibility of C2D and Nvidia GPUs/chipsets in all of the Mac notebooks. The truth is the CPU is the component that isn't being taken advantage of and probably the least needed change to create an excellent experience. I want an Arrandale CPU only if we get dedicated or hybrid graphics... but otherwise C2D and Nvidia is where Apple will have to go especially with the MBA.

We could get a quiet update Tuesday or Wednesday. We could have a quiet update whenever these Mac notebooks are ready regardless of the iPad launch. We could get a large update with a media event anytime between mid-April and late-June at the WWDC. Really, the deadline is far past, so Apple is definitely changing its update strategy. Mac sales are strong even though most of us find it absurd to buy a Mac notebook that's nearly 10 months old. I would suppose the iMac is doing really well. As for the Mac notebook updates, I have no clue and I don't suppose anyone else does either. We can keep hopeful for any Tuesday to be the day, and eventually it will happen or we will get an announcement of a media event date OR WWDC will be here and they will get updated then. I sure don't like this new Apple being focused so much on the iPad that it's willing to let the Mac notebooks become completely irrelevant with no ability to compete in the market with any other positive other than OS X.

Please Apple... any day now!

iTattoo
Mar 19, 2010, 03:40 PM
I hadn't heard that. Do you have a reference link?

Yes - from a recent 10K filing. Page 41

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9MTg1OTB8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1

About 16B out of 36.5B in FY 2009 revenue was generated in the "Americas". Americas in the very least includes Canada, Mexico and Central America. Possibly South America. At best US represents mid 30% of Apple's revenue.

glitch44
Mar 19, 2010, 05:10 PM
Yes - from a recent 10K filing. Page 41

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9MTg1OTB8Q2hpbGRJRD0tMXxUeXBlPTM=&t=1

About 16B out of 36.5B in FY 2009 revenue was generated in the "Americas". Americas in the very least includes Canada, Mexico and Central America. Possibly South America. At best US represents mid 30% of Apple's revenue.

That's interesting, although the filing does break it down further and the Americas represent the majority of the Mac Unit sales and I'd bet the US is the single largest country in terms of sales vs any other country. It's a fair argument to make that a successful launch in their largest single market is important to set the tone for launches in other markets as well as the simple fact that it's a US-based company, so they're not going to launch a new product elsewhere before it's launched here. All of this points to my original point that, yes, they'll probably hold off on new laptops until the iPad is launched here in the US, despite the iPad not being launched elsewhere yet.

codehead
Mar 20, 2010, 02:16 PM
I'm sat on this for a while because I have no proof. I asked the forum moderators if it was okay to post and they said fine but you've got no credibility. I can live with that.

I live near Cupertino, CA. I ride the train to work. I sat near someone around the holidays. They were using a macbook air. I sat down to do some work on my 13inch macbook. When the person closed their laptop, I realized that the size was all wrong in comparison to mine. I was looking at a 17inch and it was as thin as the macbook air!!!!

I should have taken a picture with my iPhone, should have spoken to the person, should have followed them off the train to talk to them, instead I sat there stunned.

I'm assuming it's a prototype. But do they let prototypes off the Apple campus? I don't know, don't know someone to even ask.

No, I wasn't on drugs, didn't fall asleep and was dreaming, don't normally hallucinate - unless this was the first time. But I don't have proof. I figured that since we deal in rumors here, this should fit right in.

Scottsdale
Mar 20, 2010, 03:57 PM
I'm sat on this for a while because I have no proof. I asked the forum moderators if it was okay to post and they said fine but you've got no credibility. I can live with that.

I live near Cupertino, CA. I ride the train to work. I sat near someone around the holidays. They were using a macbook air. I sat down to do some work on my 13inch macbook. When the person closed their laptop, I realized that the size was all wrong in comparison to mine. I was looking at a 17inch and it was as thin as the macbook air!!!!

I should have taken a picture with my iPhone, should have spoken to the person, should have followed them off the train to talk to them, instead I sat there stunned.

I'm assuming it's a prototype. But do they let prototypes off the Apple campus? I don't know, don't know someone to even ask.

No, I wasn't on drugs, didn't fall asleep and was dreaming, don't normally hallucinate - unless this was the first time. But I don't have proof. I figured that since we deal in rumors here, this should fit right in.

Good information here. However, most of the time people here will criticize you even if you're completely truthful and ultimately correct. We have seen photos of people with iPads out in public, and that's Apple's heavily guarded futuristic tech. We all know Apple execs and managers take their prototypes with them if they use them for their daily workload.

How are you so sure it wasn't a 15" MBA? or possibly an MBP with an MBA's form factor design? I believe it's difficult to determine the difference between a 15" and 17" display in a notebook when you're used to using a 13" display yourself. With the MBP, you have to look for the gap between the speakers as you cannot tell the difference looking at the display... if you're used to a 13" display yourself. If you're used to using a 17" a 15" display is obviously small. So it depends on what you're used to using yourself.

I believe a 15" or 17" MBP could take the form factor design from the MBA if they could drop their optical drives. We even read about rumors of there being a 15" MBA due out last Summer. I definitely believe that we all are about a year ahead of what's going to be released when we see prototypes or hear of these mythical products. I had a friend tell me about a future iMac that took a year to come out which was FINALLY released as the 27" iMac last October.

Anyways, I know there are a few members here that believe the larger displayed MBA would be perfect for them. And most MBP users don't need or want the optical drives... so a 15" and 17" MBP without an optical drive could possibly take the shape of the MBA and lose a pound or more weight.

I will gladly consider such a laptop myself. I would love a 17" MBP that weighed 4 lb. Thinking about it, the dedicated graphics, nice CPU, and loads of other components could fit in a 17" MBP that was shaped as an MBA.

I hope the prototype you saw ultimately makes it to full or mass production. Thank you for sharing. If anyone rips you or says you're lying, just ignore them as you'll probably get the last laugh when three months down the road the exact product you saw gets released.

Cheers!

ouimetnick
Mar 21, 2010, 09:51 AM
Simple, you're a fanboi. I am too, but I stopped making excuses for Apple's products being so far behind, or below, the competition. If you're really happy running the MINIMUM RAM for each OS, that's your business. I would find it disgusting trying to run OS X alone with any less RAM being allocated for Windows. To run Windows 7 and OS X 10.6, one needs 4 GB of RAM. Sure there are people running servers and doing crazy things with their MBA, but I find running OS X challenging enough with 2 GB of RAM in 2010.

The bottom line is there is no excuse for Apple having its products positioned so far behind its competitors, as it is right now, IN REGARDS TO THE MACS. Anyone that doesn't see it is a fanboi... and is blinded by Sir Jobs and mute to his every word. I love my MBA, but there is NO EXCUSE, in 2010, to have every Mac except the iMac positioned so far behind and below its competitors. It needs an update to every Mac except the iMac (and even needs one there with its low-end version).

Why doesn't Apple want to compete at the top? Why is it so happy with 5% share of the computer market? Apple needs to either actually dominate the high-end market with premium, relevant (which definitely requires current) products, that makes its customers feel they get exactly what they pay for with Macs. Right now, Apple has even its core Mac fan base upset with it. The MacBook Pro is the worst value the MBP has ever been, because it's so very far behind the competition with a sixteen month old graphics system and even shared RAM in its 13" models. There is nothing PRO about the current MacBook PRO. The MBA, while revolutionary when it was introduced, is quickly becoming irrelevant with competitors boasting 8 GB of RAM, hybrid graphics systems, triple the battery life, and Windows 7. The bottom line is system RAM is more important than Apple deemed it, and 2 GB is no longer relevant if it's trying to be a primary Mac doing great things.

I am getting to the point where there just isn't any reason to do this anymore. I am willing to pay Apple a lot of money to make the Mac I really want, and I am a disappointed AAPL shareholder knowing that Apple, Inc. isn't keeping its Mac customers happy. Apple needs to decide if it's going to do Macs right and keep them a fair value for the substantial premium and luxury costs, or tell its customers that it only cares about iPad, iPod, and iPhone sales. Right now, there are only two Macs people should even consider buying... one is a WhiteBook and the other is the iMac. I guess Apple is selling a lot of iMacs for sales to be acceptable with Pro Macs that are nine plus months old each. People aren't getting what they're paying for, and that is a huge problem. When people buy Macs, they justify the costs in their head, because they're normally getting what the expect to be the best computer available for the job. The problem is OS X alone isn't winning that battle anymore, so Apple needs to keep its Macs current and relevant.

I am a disappointed Apple Computer fan, and I feel that my AAPL stock would be a lot more valuable if Apple, Inc. kept its products current and relevant. If updates came every six months, that would be acceptable. But to see thousands of posts daily in the MBP threads reading that people are buying Vaio Zs and other PCs because they're sick of waiting for an update, and they realize that OS X has lost its edge over Windows with version 7. If anyone finds the current situation acceptable, I have to wonder why given the age of technology we're in, and the desire for pros, prosumers, and enthusiasts to spend money but they cannot with their favorite company because it doesn't update its products in a timely fashion. The bottom line is Apple fans aren't getting what they're paying for with year old Mac Pros, nearly ten month old MBPs and MBAs, nine month old iPhones, and seven month old iPods. No other company could do what Apple is doing, and what Apple is doing is killing its Mac and OS X brands all in the name of the iPad.

I am frustrated, and no 2 GB of RAM isn't acceptable in 2010. Remember that your MBA is sharing 256 MB of RAM to the GPU, and has LESS THAN 1 GB for each OS remaining isn't acceptable for a virtual machine environment between OS X 10.6 and Windows 7. These are the two current OSes and they have less than their required minimums each when one factors in the fact that 256 MB is being used by the GPU. Not acceptable and there is no excuse.

I know this isn't the MBA, but even when Apple updates there hardware, PCs vendors still use more powerful hardware.
Look at this example.


3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo < outdated
8GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM
500GB SATA HD 7200 RPM
8x super drive
bluetooth
backlit keyboard.
3 year ACPP
OUT DATED Nvidia Geforce 9400M and 9600m gt
$3598.00
YAY!

Dell Studio 15
Intel Core i7-820QM QUAD CORE Processor 1.73GHz (3.06GHz Turbo Mode, 8MB cache)
8GB DDR3 SDRAM 1066 MHz
500GB SATA HD 7200 RPM
ATI Mobile Radeon HD 5470 1GB
Centrino N for WiFi
8X slot loading drive
backlit keyboard
Windows 7 Ultimate
Bluetooth built in (2.1 and EDR)
3 Year Basic service plan
$2323.00!

I really love features like Magsafe, Mac OSX, BEAUTIFUL Aluminum casing, and other thinks, but I can not beliveve how MacBook Pros deserve the name MacBook pro, when the hardware is getting worse than a laptop thats $1000+ less.

codehead
Mar 21, 2010, 10:40 AM
Good information here. However, most of the time people here will criticize you even if you're completely truthful and ultimately correct.

Thanks and I do expect that.

How are you so sure it wasn't a 15" MBA? or possibly an MBP with an MBA's form factor design? I believe it's difficult to determine the difference between a 15" and 17" display in a notebook when you're used to using a 13" display yourself.

You're right on both points. I categorized what I saw as a macbook air because of the thinness. Yet it could just as easily been a MBP with the form factor of a macbook air. I hadn't thought about the size until you mentioned it. It did look like a 17inch to me, but could it have been a 15inch, I guess it could. It wasn't a 13inch, that I'm sure of. I have no idea what's inside, just that it was a mac, thin and bigger than my 13inch. But, I'd love to own it.

iMacmatician
Mar 21, 2010, 12:08 PM
Thanks and I do expect that.Basically the reason for that is from people who post information about an upcoming release, usually disappearing afterwards, and then the information turns out wrong.

The best way to stop those doubts is to get a track record. If what you said turns out right people are (much) more likely to believe you.

I really love features like Magsafe, Mac OSX, BEAUTIFUL Aluminum casing, and other thinks, but I can not beliveve how MacBook Pros deserve the name MacBook pro, when the hardware is getting worse than a laptop thats $1000+ less.It's a "pro" in name only. To clear up a common misconception, "pro" doesn't mean "I can use this hardware for professional purposes," it means "it uses the high-end components in a product range."

codehead
Mar 21, 2010, 01:25 PM
Basically the reason for that is from people who post information about an upcoming release, usually disappearing afterwards, and then the information turns out wrong.

The best way to stop those doubts is to get a track record. If what you said turns out right people are (much) more likely to believe you.

Then I'll just have to pray to the Mac gods to have this thing released soon so I can build up a track record. ;)

Arrakeen
Mar 21, 2010, 04:52 PM
I'm not waiting any more.

I just got a Vaio Z, since the even more beautiful Vaio X is so underpowered.

512 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, i7, marvellous true colour screen in fullHD (the best I've seen so far), light, black and beautiful.

It's perfekt :D
(nearly - besides not competitive webcam, only 2x USB 2.0 and 1x FireWire400)

Arrakeen
Mar 21, 2010, 04:58 PM
...AND blu-ray writer included!

applesupergeek
Mar 21, 2010, 05:22 PM
I'm not waiting any more.

I just got a Vaio Z, since the even more beautiful Vaio X is so underpowered.

512 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, i7, marvellous true colour screen in fullHD (the best I've seen so far), light, black and beautiful.

It's perfekt :D
(nearly - besides not competitive webcam, only 2x USB 2.0 and 1x FireWire400)

I am sorry for this, I think you will regret it. Windoze universe, what a headache...

Scottsdale
Mar 21, 2010, 05:32 PM
Then I'll just have to pray to the Mac gods to have this thing released soon so I can build up a track record. ;)

You're 100% correct...

That's just the thing. The MacBook Pros DO NOT HAVE "Pro" level equipment or components included. The 13" MBP has an Nvidia 9400m. There are so many non-"Pro" PCs that have dedicated graphics, better CPUs, and far more capabilities that are consumer branded. Even the low-end 15" MBP doesn't have dedicated graphics. It gets worse from there... expandability comes with an Express Card/34 port, but Apple removed it from the 15" MBP and never included it in the 13" MBP. Here's the thing. I was looking at a 13" ultraportable Dell Vostro v13 for $449 and it included an ExpressCard/34 port! How is Apple's negligence so severe when it comes to its hardware that being .95" thin is more important than functionality and capabilities of a true Pro. Apple calls the 13" MBP a "Pro" because it has a FireWire Port, yes a FireWire Port and an aluminum case, LMAO! Most "Pros" would tell you that they'll gladly add a half an inch to the MBP to get the capabilities they need. Even the 17" MBP had a low-end mid grade graphics card when introduced with the 9600, but that was clear back fourteen months ago. Why not at least update the graphics? The people that buy the MBPs and are happy are Prosumers, tech enthusiasts, and Mac OS X lovers. I don't know many pro users would actually be happy with an MBP, but it's surely not a professional grade machine in any way... even with its brightest model, the 17" MBP.

The whole thing here is Apple has its customers addicted to its OS and its hardwares' industrial minimalistic looks and appearance. It holds its OS X operating system hostage to outrageous prices. Then it adds "high-end" low cost adds to make the justification for extreme price points; these are things like $1 worth of LED backlights for keyboard, $0.10 worth of glass for silky-smooth trackpad, and an aluminum case that costs less than $5 for raw aluminum. In addition, when the aluminum cased Mac notebooks are dropped they, do not protect the case like plastic or carbon fiber, instead they dent and Apple VOIDS the warranty - in addition, they charge $400 or more for $5 worth of aluminum for replacement of damaged case parts.

I am glad I don't need a "Pro" laptop, because I couldn't live with the MBP as my computer if I needed to do anything "professional." I love the MBA, but I want an update. I want to spend some money and I want my AAPL to rise in value, and it's going to take Mac updates! Apple really is out of line here, in my opinion. I just don't get how some people will go pay full price for hardware that is ten months old. If I had to buy a Mac right now, the iMac or white MB are the only Macs that are a fair value proposition. Come on Apple, update the damn Macs SOON!

Scottsdale
Mar 21, 2010, 05:48 PM
I'm not waiting any more.

I just got a Vaio Z, since the even more beautiful Vaio X is so underpowered.

512 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, i7, marvellous true colour screen in fullHD (the best I've seen so far), light, black and beautiful.

It's perfekt :D
(nearly - besides not competitive webcam, only 2x USB 2.0 and 1x FireWire400)

I am right behind you if the iPad doesn't keep me happy until the MBA is updated.

I envy your willingness to "just go for it" with the Sony Z. It truly is stunning. It's probably going to be more powerful than the next MBP yet is as lightweight as the MBA!

Please, do come back and FULLY share and review the Sony Z in these forums... do it as a comparison to the MBA as to keep the MBA fans intrigued and not on the defensive.

I wish you the best with it, but I hope I don't have to follow you. Hopefully Apple will answer with an update MBA that blows away the current v 2,1 MBA. I will be really happy if we can get dedicated graphics, Core i7-640LM and option to upgrade to 8 GB of RAM.

Jayomat
Mar 21, 2010, 06:42 PM
The people that buy the MBPs and are happy are Prosumers, tech enthusiasts, and Mac OS X lovers. I don't know many pro users would actually be happy with an MBP, but it's surely not a professional grade machine in any way... even with its brightest model, the 17" MBP.

The whole thing here is Apple has its customers addicted to its OS and its hardwares' industrial minimalistic looks and appearance. It holds its OS X operating system hostage to outrageous prices. Then it adds "high-end" low cost adds to make the justification for extreme price points; these are things like $1 worth of LED backlights for keyboard, $0.10 worth of glass for silky-smooth trackpad, and an aluminum case that costs less than $5 for raw aluminum. In addition, when the aluminum cased Mac notebooks are dropped they, do not protect the case like plastic or carbon fiber, instead they dent and Apple VOIDS the warranty - in addition, they charge $400 or more for $5 worth of aluminum for replacement of damaged case parts.


exactly..

In addition (little off topic): from my point of view, there are only three reasons to buy a mac (to me): OSX, the trackpad and the ability to write Mac/iPhone apps... while I'm not in the market for an upgrade right now (my mb is covered by applecare for about 6 month left), it's getting harder and harder to justify a mac purchase.

When "my upgrade time has come", I will be in a paradox situation. Dump the beloved OSX to get a "better computer for less money"? I guess it would also be a VAIO Z for me as I want portability AND power...!!!!

While I'm happy that there WILL BE new 'Macs" in 6 month, I'm losing faith that apple is going to catch up to the competition, spec wise.. I know, macs are not for those who want the "latest and greatest" (..blabla..) but apple's competitors have really stepped up their game..

I couldn't justify a mac purchase just because I like OSX and still want to be able to build iPhone apps.. The reason I bought my mb two years ago was VISTA, which is not an argument anymore.. on the other hand, all my purchased OSX apps would be completely useless since I would, of course, use Win7 as the main OS....

c'mon:apple::mad:

entatlrg
Mar 21, 2010, 07:13 PM
Unfortunately, I think ALL focus from Apple for the next few months is going to be on the iPad. It releases in two weeks, the 3G version four weeks after that ...

A new MacBook Air will NOT be introduced until sometime after the dust settles from the iPad launch, Steve J won't want any attention taken away from the iPad, that's Apple's new 'billion dollar baby' ...

MacBook Pro sales up 39% in January! That proves it's just the .05% of consumers in these forums who care about the most up to date spec's.

People are learning about the great day to day user experience the MBP provides, that's what they want and that's what they're buying, it's a laptop not a race car where the biggest motor wins ....

Apple's all drunk over the iPad launch, wooing shareholders, publishers/media and Consumers it's a HUGE undertaking.

... and you think they're going to release new MacBook Pro's and MacBook Air's in the middle of all this - NO WAY.

It will be June.

Paperboy2010
Mar 22, 2010, 12:17 PM
I'm not waiting any more.

I just got a Vaio Z, since the even more beautiful Vaio X is so underpowered.

512 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, i7, marvellous true colour screen in fullHD (the best I've seen so far), light, black and beautiful.

It's perfekt :D
(nearly - besides not competitive webcam, only 2x USB 2.0 and 1x FireWire400)

I'm right there with you...I've been waiting patiently hoping for an MBA upgrade that hasn't materialized. I thought I had some time, but my Latitude D420 is crapping out quickly and I might not be able to wait. I was just looking at the Vaio Z's and I think I'll probably get one tomorrow if the new MBA isn't announced. Which model did you get (their nomenclature is a bit confusing)? May I also ask where you bought it? Also, while I probably won't opt for the full 8 gb of RAM, is it easily upgradable for the 'common man'? The Z looks like it could be a good replacement for my 3 yr old Latitude.

Thanks in advance....

Arrakeen
Mar 22, 2010, 04:17 PM
I am right behind you if the iPad doesn't keep me happy until the MBA is updated.

I envy your willingness to "just go for it" with the Sony Z. It truly is stunning. It's probably going to be more powerful than the next MBP yet is as lightweight as the MBA!

Please, do come back and FULLY share and review the Sony Z in these forums... do it as a comparison to the MBA as to keep the MBA fans intrigued and not on the defensive.

I wish you the best with it, but I hope I don't have to follow you. Hopefully Apple will answer with an update MBA that blows away the current v 2,1 MBA. I will be really happy if we can get dedicated graphics, Core i7-640LM and option to upgrade to 8 GB of RAM.


I will come with a feedback about my Vaio Z, if I get the time. :)

Until then 2, 3 words:

In a way I may compare the digital helpers a little different, not necessarily the MBA only vs. the Vaio Z, but also the MBA vs. the Vaio X... As I see it there is a line-up from mobile to workstation at the office:

arm clock
(0) It might be computerised more... even if I like the beauty of mechanical engineering and precision there (I have a Junghans future watch btw.)

phone:
(1) smart phone (iPhone,...)

ultraportabel:
(2a) tablet (iPad, HP...)
(2b) MBA/Vaio X/netbooks (mostly underpowered so far: poor graphics, only 2 GB RAM, Atom instead ultralowvoltage i7 for example)
(2c) future tablet with MacOS/Win7 as full netbook alternative

Notebook, portable:
(3a) MBA/Vaio Z/MBP13"
(3b) maybe a future 13" 1080p tablet as full notebook alternative

Notebook, workstasjon replacement:
(4) MBP15"/17", Lenovo W510/W710

home:
(5a) iMac and other "screen integrated"
(5b) Macmini/HTPCs/kitchen

work
(6) Mac Pro and other big boxes


The Vaio Z is not perfect: it is expensive (i paid nearly 4000 €), has only USB 2.0 and firewire 400, beautiful screen but no touch (as the Lenovo W510 f.ex.) and could be some mm thinner! You may not have both operating systems togethe via boot camp (I really like this!). Trackpad is only okay. But it comes near perfection and Win7 (Ultimate) is fine. :)

Designwise it is fine enough (in matte black european edition, I don't like the other finishes like "carbon" in awful high glossy!).
The Vaio X is even better than the MBA designwise, I think.

Arrakeen
Mar 22, 2010, 04:28 PM
I'm right there with you...I've been waiting patiently hoping for an MBA upgrade that hasn't materialized. I thought I had some time, but my Latitude D420 is crapping out quickly and I might not be able to wait. I was just looking at the Vaio Z's and I think I'll probably get one tomorrow if the new MBA isn't announced. Which model did you get (their nomenclature is a bit confusing)? May I also ask where you bought it? Also, while I probably won't opt for the full 8 gb of RAM, is it easily upgradable for the 'common man'? The Z looks like it could be a good replacement for my 3 yr old Latitude.

Thanks in advance....

I ordered it at SonyStyle.de (in Germany, as well as in USA, but not in the most other countries, you can choose individually the parts as you wish. I like to choose myself.

I DON'T like that you cannot choose PCexpress or SD slot in the MBP 15" for example. Or that you cannot choose DVD- or BD- drive!!!

At the Vaio Z I missed especially that I could not choose a better webcam and USB 3.0.

My personal configuration is as follows:
i7-620M
Win7 64-bit Ultimate
plain black (no glossy screen cover!)
512 GB SSD
8GB 1066 MHz RAM
blu-ray writer
13,1" 1080p 96 % Gamut display with webcam (only 0,3 Mpixel, no dual microphone)
Wireless WAN (HSUPA, UMTS, EDGE, GPRS)
fingerprint sensor
TPM infineon chip
4,5 h battery
noise cancelling head set
2x USB 2.0
1x FireWire 400 ("iLink")
4 years warranty (6 months battery)

This max. configuration IS expensive, I agree, especially the blur-ray writer and the SSD cost a fortune, but I intend to use it quite a while.

Arrakeen
Mar 22, 2010, 04:42 PM
I am sorry for this, I think you will regret it. Windoze universe, what a headache...

I only miss that I won't have the best out of 2 worlds via boot camp. :) Both SL and Win7 have their adantages and disadvantages.

Scottsdale
Mar 22, 2010, 05:06 PM
I only miss that I won't have the best out of 2 worlds via boot camp. :) Both SL and Win7 have their adantages and disadvantages.

Well, if the new MBA, when it is finally introduced, has 4 GB of RAM (or better yet two RAM slots), a core i7-640LM at 2.13 to 2.93 GHz boost, an Nvidia 310m with Optimus hybrid, has 256 GB SSD option, has Blu Ray external drive option, a glass trackpad, an HD display, and more... will you sell the Sony Vaio Z and buy a new MBA?

Also, I don't know if this will happen, but what if the MBA gets updated tomorrow? Would you cancel your order? What if it only had 4 GB of RAM and everything else was the same? How badly do you want both OSes?

Just wondering what you would do? I am curious, because I have thought what I would do. However, if you have the Vaio Z for a few months, and it runs faster than an MBP with the weight of an MBA, I doubt you would ever look back. Windows 7 is really very good. The one thing that gets me when calculating the costs is not the money to buy all new apps but the LEARNING CURVE. I used Windows PCs for years, but now I am used to OS X platform applications, and I don't know that I want to lose those??? And have to relearn some of the things. However, Safari is available on Windows 7 as is iTunes, and applications like Office and Adobe CS are much nicer on the Windows platform. Plus, there is every app imaginable on the Windows platform with about 10X the apps to choose from on Windows.

Best wishes with your Sony Vaio Z... I envy your willingness to switch, and as an AAPL shareholder, I sure as hell wish Apple would keep its products far more relevant. In addition, it scares me that Apple would be willing to let its Mac products become so irrelevant when the iPad hasn't had a single sale completed yet! In addition, where are the sales numbers going to come from when Macs stop selling and Apple can only produce 300K iPads for launch? What is going to happen for the second fiscal quarter, in terms of sales, after the Macs weren't updated and the iPad didn't get finished until fiscal Q3?

All seems to be speculation for the iPad is allowing Apple to lose sight of the real sales for now and the users that built the company and allowed it to endure through the tough times - Mac buyers! I sure hope Apple's board is watching this and ensures Steve's "vision" isn't going to impede progress and sales with all of the other Apple products. Steve often focuses on one thing so much that he forgets about the other products. we have all seen this time and time again whether it's the iPod, MBA, iPhone, or iPad. I just hope somebody is on top of the future of all of the other products. I don't like the fact that Apple seems to be putting all of its eggs (time and focus and marketing) in one basket (the iPad)! Right now the only Mac that is relevant is the 27" iMac with Core i5/i7 CPUs and 58xx series ATI graphics. All other Mac products are completely dated and a terrible value proposition (the WhiteBook at $899 is also not bad for the average consumer).

Arrakeen
Mar 22, 2010, 05:24 PM
Well, if the new MBA, when it is finally introduced, has 4 GB of RAM (or better yet two RAM slots), a core i7-640LM at 2.13 to 2.93 GHz boost, an Nvidia 310m with Optimus hybrid, has 256 GB SSD option, has Blu Ray external drive option, a glass trackpad, an HD display, and more... will you sell the Sony Vaio Z and buy a new MBA?

Also, I don't know if this will happen, but what if the MBA gets updated tomorrow? Would you cancel your order? What if it only had 4 GB of RAM and everything else was the same? How badly do you want both OSes?

Just wondering what you would do? I am curious, because I have thought what I would do. However, if you have the Vaio Z for a few months, and it runs faster than an MBP with the weight of an MBA, I doubt you would ever look back. Windows 7 is really very good. The one thing that gets me when calculating the costs is not the money to buy all new apps but the LEARNING CURVE. I used Windows PCs for years, but now I am used to OS X platform applications, and I don't know that I want to lose those??? And have to relearn some of the things. However, Safari is available on Windows 7 as is iTunes, and applications like Office and Adobe CS are much nicer on the Windows platform. Plus, there is every app imaginable on the Windows platform with about 10X the apps to choose from on Windows.

Best wishes with your Sony Vaio Z... I envy your willingness to switch, and as an AAPL shareholder, I sure as hell wish Apple would keep its products far more relevant. In addition, it scares me that Apple would be willing to let its Mac products become so irrelevant when the iPad hasn't had a single sale completed yet! In addition, where are the sales numbers going to come from when Macs stop selling and Apple can only produce 300K iPads for launch? What is going to happen for the second fiscal quarter, in terms of sales, after the Macs weren't updated and the iPad didn't get finished until fiscal Q3?

All seems to be speculation for the iPad is allowing Apple to lose sight of the real sales for now and the users that built the company and allowed it to endure through the tough times - Mac buyers! I sure hope Apple's board is watching this and ensures Steve's "vision" isn't going to impede progress and sales with all of the other Apple products. Steve often focuses on one thing so much that he forgets about the other products. we have all seen this time and time again whether it's the iPod, MBA, iPhone, or iPad. I just hope somebody is on top of the future of all of the other products. I don't like the fact that Apple seems to be putting all of its eggs (time and focus and marketing) in one basket (the iPad)! Right now the only Mac that is relevant is the 27" iMac with Core i5/i7 CPUs and 58xx series ATI graphics. All other Mac products are completely dated and a terrible value proposition (the WhiteBook at $899 is also not bad for the average consumer).

Thank you.

I don't see that I will have to cancel my order (which I can, the first 14 days after the delivery last thursday, if I want to), because i don't see that the MBA will get a 1080p true color screen (which I already LOVE!) or ALL the other key features you mentioned above.

PS: Hehe, I'm a share holder of BMW, not Apple or Sony. ;)

Paperboy2010
Mar 22, 2010, 05:45 PM
Well, if the new MBA, when it is finally introduced, has 4 GB of RAM (or better yet two RAM slots), a core i7-640LM at 2.13 to 2.93 GHz boost, an Nvidia 310m with Optimus hybrid, has 256 GB SSD option, has Blu Ray external drive option, a glass trackpad, an HD display, and more... will you sell the Sony Vaio Z and buy a new MBA?

Also, I don't know if this will happen, but what if the MBA gets updated tomorrow? Would you cancel your order? What if it only had 4 GB of RAM and everything else was the same? How badly do you want both OSes?

Just wondering what you would do? I am curious, because I have thought what I would do. However, if you have the Vaio Z for a few months, and it runs faster than an MBP with the weight of an MBA, I doubt you would ever look back. Windows 7 is really very good. The one thing that gets me when calculating the costs is not the money to buy all new apps but the LEARNING CURVE. I used Windows PCs for years, but now I am used to OS X platform applications, and I don't know that I want to lose those??? And have to relearn some of the things. However, Safari is available on Windows 7 as is iTunes, and applications like Office and Adobe CS are much nicer on the Windows platform. Plus, there is every app imaginable on the Windows platform with about 10X the apps to choose from on Windows.

Best wishes with your Sony Vaio Z... I envy your willingness to switch, and as an AAPL shareholder, I sure as hell wish Apple would keep its products far more relevant. In addition, it scares me that Apple would be willing to let its Mac products become so irrelevant when the iPad hasn't had a single sale completed yet! In addition, where are the sales numbers going to come from when Macs stop selling and Apple can only produce 300K iPads for launch? What is going to happen for the second fiscal quarter, in terms of sales, after the Macs weren't updated and the iPad didn't get finished until fiscal Q3?

All seems to be speculation for the iPad is allowing Apple to lose sight of the real sales for now and the users that built the company and allowed it to endure through the tough times - Mac buyers! I sure hope Apple's board is watching this and ensures Steve's "vision" isn't going to impede progress and sales with all of the other Apple products. Steve often focuses on one thing so much that he forgets about the other products. we have all seen this time and time again whether it's the iPod, MBA, iPhone, or iPad. I just hope somebody is on top of the future of all of the other products. I don't like the fact that Apple seems to be putting all of its eggs (time and focus and marketing) in one basket (the iPad)! Right now the only Mac that is relevant is the 27" iMac with Core i5/i7 CPUs and 58xx series ATI graphics. All other Mac products are completely dated and a terrible value proposition (the WhiteBook at $899 is also not bad for the average consumer).


I agree wholeheartedly....I am also a significant shareholder and I'm surprised we haven't gotten an update yet. The halo has been great, but that is going to wane eventually. Now I realize that most people who walk into an Apple store don't know the difference between today's MBP or next weeks, but as an enthusiast, it's frustrating.

Scottsdale
Mar 22, 2010, 07:02 PM
I agree wholeheartedly....I am also a significant shareholder and I'm surprised we haven't gotten an update yet. The halo has been great, but that is going to wane eventually. Now I realize that most people who walk into an Apple store don't know the difference between today's MBP or next weeks, but as an enthusiast, it's frustrating.

I know the iMac is experiencing significant sales boosts (and maybe unibody MB is doing okay), but I don't understand Apple missing a new product or an update to the Mac notebooks this fiscal quarter.

We can look back at the last three years and see that Apple generally releases an update to either the Mac notebooks, Mac desktops, iPhone, or iPod every fiscal quarter. In addition, the Mac notebooks normally see updates twice during a calendar year which are usually eight months apart. We are approaching ten months with the MBPs which is unusually strange. For the MBA to be going on ten months is ridiculous, but I cannot imagine being a Pro user and having to buy a thirteen month old Mac Pro or ten month old MacBook Pro. As an AAPL shareholder it really concerns me of the level of complaints by MBP users some of which who are moving onto the Vaio Z, Lenovo and other PCs leaving OS X and Apple without a sale and worse yet a loss from its OS X "security net" - meaning once a person switches from OS X they're less likely to come back to the Mac for switching costs. It costs even more money to switch back to the OS X platform if one has to re-buy all of the Apps for OS X that they already have licenses for with Windows.

The second fiscal quarter was probably supposed to have an iPad a few months earlier and a Mac notebook update. Surely Apple had planned an update or the new iPad for fiscal quarter two. Now, are we going to see the Mac notebooks, Mac desktops, and iPad all fiscal Q3? Then the iPhone and iPods in fiscal Q4. I guess WWDC is in late June and early July this year, so that pushes the iPhone introduction back a bit, and surely Apple isn't going to make it 13 months before it introduces the new MBPs?

I have to believe the Core i-series Arrandale CPUs, with on die graphics forcing Apple to buy Intel's chipsets, really frustrated Apple and set it back. I suppose Apple is exploring options with dedicated graphics and hybrid alternatives. I hope that's the reason we don't have new Macs and not the fact that Jobs and Apple have focused so much on the iPad that they've forgotten about the Mac users. For it's the Mac user that has kept the company afloat and created it into not just an empire but an empire with a cult-like following.

Maybe Apple will surprise us and update soon despite the iPad's planned release. Apple did update Macs right before the original iPhone was released. Maybe Apple is following its past behaviors and has learned that having both Mac buyers and new product buyers in the store at the same time drives consumers into buying more of each product or both. However, it has seemed since October 2009 that MBP and MBA updates should be here. The June 2009 update was so minor especially for the MBA that a much earlier update seemed obvious. I sure hope we're all wrong and Apple surprises us...

Paperboy2010
Mar 24, 2010, 05:34 PM
I know the iMac is experiencing significant sales boosts (and maybe unibody MB is doing okay), but I don't understand Apple missing a new product or an update to the Mac notebooks this fiscal quarter.

We can look back at the last three years and see that Apple generally releases an update to either the Mac notebooks, Mac desktops, iPhone, or iPod every fiscal quarter. In addition, the Mac notebooks normally see updates twice during a calendar year which are usually eight months apart. We are approaching ten months with the MBPs which is unusually strange. For the MBA to be going on ten months is ridiculous, but I cannot imagine being a Pro user and having to buy a thirteen month old Mac Pro or ten month old MacBook Pro. As an AAPL shareholder it really concerns me of the level of complaints by MBP users some of which who are moving onto the Vaio Z, Lenovo and other PCs leaving OS X and Apple without a sale and worse yet a loss from its OS X "security net" - meaning once a person switches from OS X they're less likely to come back to the Mac for switching costs. It costs even more money to switch back to the OS X platform if one has to re-buy all of the Apps for OS X that they already have licenses for with Windows.

The second fiscal quarter was probably supposed to have an iPad a few months earlier and a Mac notebook update. Surely Apple had planned an update or the new iPad for fiscal quarter two. Now, are we going to see the Mac notebooks, Mac desktops, and iPad all fiscal Q3? Then the iPhone and iPods in fiscal Q4. I guess WWDC is in late June and early July this year, so that pushes the iPhone introduction back a bit, and surely Apple isn't going to make it 13 months before it introduces the new MBPs?

I have to believe the Core i-series Arrandale CPUs, with on die graphics forcing Apple to buy Intel's chipsets, really frustrated Apple and set it back. I suppose Apple is exploring options with dedicated graphics and hybrid alternatives. I hope that's the reason we don't have new Macs and not the fact that Jobs and Apple have focused so much on the iPad that they've forgotten about the Mac users. For it's the Mac user that has kept the company afloat and created it into not just an empire but an empire with a cult-like following.

Maybe Apple will surprise us and update soon despite the iPad's planned release. Apple did update Macs right before the original iPhone was released. Maybe Apple is following its past behaviors and has learned that having both Mac buyers and new product buyers in the store at the same time drives consumers into buying more of each product or both. However, it has seemed since October 2009 that MBP and MBA updates should be here. The June 2009 update was so minor especially for the MBA that a much earlier update seemed obvious. I sure hope we're all wrong and Apple surprises us...

Very frustrating....I was all set to get the Vaio Z and then Steve had to say Not to worry about the forthcoming upgrade. Since that came out on Monday night, I thought that we'd see something Tuesday to no avail. NOW since it wasn't LAST Tuesday, that MUST mean that it's going to be THIS Tuesday, right (or not)!!

OK, if there isn't any type of announcement THIS Tuesday, then I'll go with the Z (unless of course I'm convinced it'll be the FOLLOWING Tuesday).

codehead
Mar 24, 2010, 09:23 PM
Very frustrating....I was all set to get the Vaio Z and then Steve had to say Not to worry about the forthcoming upgrade. Since that came out on Monday night, I thought that we'd see something Tuesday to no avail. NOW since it wasn't LAST Tuesday, that MUST mean that it's going to be THIS Tuesday, right (or not)!!

OK, if there isn't any type of announcement THIS Tuesday, then I'll go with the Z (unless of course I'm convinced it'll be the FOLLOWING Tuesday).

Actually that comment gave me hope. But then again, it doesn't tell us when.

I looked at the Vaio. I think for those who could buy it looks good and seems to have good features.

I just don't know that I personally could buy it. Having had PCs from the get go, and finally in frustration coming over to Macs, it would be hard to go back. I hated being whipsawed between the hardware and software companies. You know, something goes wrong and the software company blames the hardware and vice versa.

Hardware and software made for each other and actually working right out of the box!! Priceless. This is what has kept me a Mac user.

I'm just frustrated because I want (read, not need) a lighter weight laptop. I want the MacBook Air that we're all waiting for... the wait is killing me.;)

buddy1065
Mar 24, 2010, 09:45 PM
Actually that comment gave me hope. But then again, it doesn't tell us when.

I looked at the Vaio. I think for those who could buy it looks good and seems to have good features.

I just don't know that I personally could buy it. Having had PCs from the get go, and finally in frustration coming over to Macs, it would be hard to go back. I hated being whipsawed between the hardware and software companies. You know, something goes wrong and the software company blames the hardware and vice versa.

Hardware and software made for each other and actually working right out of the box!! Priceless. This is what has kept me a Mac user.

I'm just frustrated because I want (read, not need) a lighter weight laptop. I want the MacBook Air that we're all waiting for... the wait is killing me.;)

OOPs...there goes another one. I just bought a Z.
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o41/AshleyT99/INCASE2.jpg
Windows 7 is new to me as a mac owner, but it's interesting, for lack of a better word. Norton anti virus came with it. It was annoying at first with its pop up warnings till I finally got off my butt and disabled the pop up options. I mean anytime you install something? But yeah, OSX asks for a password when installing so I can't complain. I must say with the 13" Macbook case I bought at Apple, I feel I have to check to make sure it's in the case; the thing is so light as I carry it with the shoulder strap. So wish Apple had not taken so long but since I have a MBP 15" as a desktop replacement all I need is something light and powerful. Not as much into editing video any more, which is why I bought the MBP in the first place. So the Z is a good choice for me and it works great, i5, backlit keyboard, 192 GB, 1300x900 resolution, DVD burner, feels sturdy. Mine was the Metal Mosaic model, $2349.

I mean if you are really into all the software Macs have to offer then go with it. It's just not as important as it used to be with me.

Scottsdale
Mar 24, 2010, 11:57 PM
Very frustrating....I was all set to get the Vaio Z and then Steve had to say Not to worry about the forthcoming upgrade. Since that came out on Monday night, I thought that we'd see something Tuesday to no avail. NOW since it wasn't LAST Tuesday, that MUST mean that it's going to be THIS Tuesday, right (or not)!!

OK, if there isn't any type of announcement THIS Tuesday, then I'll go with the Z (unless of course I'm convinced it'll be the FOLLOWING Tuesday).

This shows how sick in the head us Mac cult followers are... I also expected an update this week after Steve said this. We had seen Macs updated right before the iPhone, so Apple isn't necessarily not updating due to the iPad. In fact, it makes a lot of sense to get as many potential buyers in the store as possible buying the iPad and see a new Mac they like or buying a new Mac and also pickup an iPad. But the truth is, I am so sick in the head, as are most here, to think that Steve says "Not to worry," that I absolutely am convinced it's within the next ten days for sure.

Steve misleads us all the time. "Not to worry," could mean we're working on it and it's going to be a "level above" the current MBPs. It could mean, FU don't worry about the MBP worry about the iPad. It could mean, FU, I cannot believe you're wasting my time with this crap so I am going to screw with you. It could mean, "not to worry" as soon as Intel makes a CPU we can work with it'll be on its way to you. It could mean, "not to worry," buy the current MBP and don't worry about the internal components. It could mean, "not to worry, as the end of the world is coming December 21, 2012... and your current MBP will surely get you through until then... for now, buy an iPad.

I also wonder if Apple isn't beyond waiting a month and seeing what happens to iPad sales, and if necessary release the new Macs and include an iPad for 1/2 the price with any new Mac. Seriously, not to worry doesn't mean anything other than stop your damn worrying about something you don't control!

However, knowing I am a sucker I have waited since October 2009 for an update. I was convinced that the June 09 update was so minor that a bigger update was coming. When Apple said its holiday lineup was set, I thought well holidays are for consumers so that just means the MB, iMac, and Mac mini aren't getting any more updates... the MBA, MBP, and Mac Pro are business or prosumer devices still could get an update - yes, I know I was reaching. Then Christmas came, and i thought new Macs the first week of January. Intel will definitely let Apple update its Macs and introduce the new Arrandale CPUs first. Then I thought next Tuesday, after Tuesday I figured Wednesday is the new Tuesday. Then I thought okay Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday are all possibles. After every Thursday morning without an update, I was POSITIVE it's next Tuesday. Then during the month came the MLK holiday, so I said it's not Tuesday we know when there's a holiday Apple updates on Wednesday, then I thought no Thursday, well maybe this Friday due to the holiday. Then I kept doing the exact same thing every week with positive feelings towards the next Tuesday, little bit of hope for Wednesday, still some Thursday... and it kept happening every week until now. I am sick in the head to let such a thing consume my thoughts.

There, I have admitted it and gave myself a new cutoff date today when Jobs remarks of "not to worry" didn't result in an update in either of last two days... April 15, 2010 is my cutoff date. I guarantee myself that I will buy a Sony Vaio Z if the MBA isn't updated by this date or an Apple media event isn't announced by that date with the event being before the end of the month. It gives me nearly two weeks to play with my iPad and wait it out. I actually have put a Z or limited edition Z in a shopping cart at Sony.com. If I went to a store and could buy one today, I would already have done it. Since I will have to wait when I order a Z, it makes me feel like just waiting for the MBA. On April 15, I will order the new Sony Vaio Z, with a bunch of BTO options, and I will also replace all of my software with brand new Windows platform copies. I have to have CS 5 anyways for the DreamWeaver app, so it will have been released three days earlier and is much nicer on Windows anyways. I will also buy the new Office product as soon as it's released for Windows. Then when the MBA is updated, I will buy one and try it out but will keep the Z unless the MBA is remarkably superior in "fun" and portability. So, Apple has a chance to get my business... either way, Apple is paying for my next computer as it's AAPL stock allowing me to buy either or both. Thanks AAPL!

Does anyone else think that it has been so long, and the chances are so great of Arrandale CPUs and therefore greatly different graphics that Apple will have a media event? After waiting this long for an update wouldn't they want to show off all of these great new features that Jobs deems as a "level above."

OOPs...there goes another one. I just bought a Z.
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o41/AshleyT99/INCASE2.jpg
Windows 7 is new to me as a mac owner, but it's interesting, for lack of a better word. Norton anti virus came with it. It was annoying at first with its pop up warnings till I finally got off my butt and disabled the pop up options. I mean anytime you install something? But yeah, OSX asks for a password when installing so I can't complain. I must say with the 13" Macbook case I bought at Apple, I feel I have to check to make sure it's in the case; the thing is so light as I carry it with the shoulder strap. So wish Apple had not taken so long but since I have a MBP 15" as a desktop replacement all I need is something light and powerful. Not as much into editing video any more, which is why I bought the MBP in the first place. So the Z is a good choice for me and it works great, i5, backlit keyboard, 192 GB, 1300x900 resolution, DVD burner, feels sturdy. Mine was the Metal Mosaic model, $2349.

I mean if you are really into all the software Macs have to offer then go with it. It's just not as important as it used to be with me.

This is great! Congratulations! Very happy for you. I still wish I could just pull the trigger on a Vaio Z limited edition.

Would you please give us a "user" review and compare it to both an MBP and MBA?

Would you please also tell us how the Vaio Z's case feels? What does the aluminum look and feel like? What parts are carbon fiber? It's hard to tell from the online photos.

Also, exactly how thick is it compared to an MBA? I have to believe the weight feels exactly like the MBA, but I wonder if the thickness affects the portability and feel awarded by the MBA not available from the Z?

Best wishes with it! I am jealous - I know that's wrong but I am!

glitch44
Mar 25, 2010, 02:35 AM
Maybe we should reread the story that ran on the Macrumors front page:

Meanwhile, one MacRumors reader emailed Steve Jobs directly about concerns about how long he's had to wait for the new MacBook Pro updates and Apple's recent focus on the iPad. He wrote "I recognise the need for secrecy etc but I am really losing heart in the lack of vision for the MBP and Mac Pros. Not expecting a response but as someone who has personally switched dozens of people onto the mac way this is a sad email for me to compose."

As he's been occasionally known to do, Steve Jobs reportedly responded with a short reply that simply said "Not to worry."

Unless the story was quoting incorrectly, he was asking about MBP. Not sure how you guys got MBA out of that. It certainly could be the whole line, but it seems like screwy game of telephone to go from "Not to worry" on the MBP to "MBA update too!" to MBA UPDATE THIS TUESDAY!

Paperboy2010
Mar 25, 2010, 09:52 AM
Maybe we should reread the story that ran on the Macrumors front page:



Unless the story was quoting incorrectly, he was asking about MBP. Not sure how you guys got MBA out of that. It certainly could be the whole line, but it seems like screwy game of telephone to go from "Not to worry" on the MBP to "MBA update too!" to MBA UPDATE THIS TUESDAY!

I agree that there's a leap there, but the MBA is more outdated than the MBP, so if they're updating the MBP, they should be updating the MBA. Truthfully, if they only update the Pro, then I would take that as a signal that the MBA has been left to die since it's been so long.

Paperboy2010
Mar 25, 2010, 10:13 AM
OOPs...there goes another one. I just bought a Z.
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o41/AshleyT99/INCASE2.jpg
Windows 7 is new to me as a mac owner, but it's interesting, for lack of a better word. Norton anti virus came with it. It was annoying at first with its pop up warnings till I finally got off my butt and disabled the pop up options. I mean anytime you install something? But yeah, OSX asks for a password when installing so I can't complain. I must say with the 13" Macbook case I bought at Apple, I feel I have to check to make sure it's in the case; the thing is so light as I carry it with the shoulder strap. So wish Apple had not taken so long but since I have a MBP 15" as a desktop replacement all I need is something light and powerful. Not as much into editing video any more, which is why I bought the MBP in the first place. So the Z is a good choice for me and it works great, i5, backlit keyboard, 192 GB, 1300x900 resolution, DVD burner, feels sturdy. Mine was the Metal Mosaic model, $2349.I mean if you are really into all the software Macs have to offer then go with it. It's just not as important as it used to be with me.

I would love to hear your thoughts...did you buy it online and configure through Sony Style, or just go into a store? How is it bulk wise, the height of 1.3" sounds like a lot? What else was a part of the system to get you up to the 2349?

rotorblade69
Mar 25, 2010, 11:09 AM
It could mean, "not to worry, as the end of the world is coming December 21, 2012... and your current MBP will surely get you through until then... for now, buy an iPad.

I also wonder if Apple isn't beyond waiting a month and seeing what happens to iPad sales, and if necessary release the new Macs and include an iPad for 1/2 the price with any new Mac.


!

Nasa will not be launching anything for Deep space rotation until after 2013! Also some businesses I know of have held of longer term start dates for such things as remodels refurbs of equipment and moves until feb of 2013. Go figure. Just them being prudent You can't get 2012 disaster insurance apparently.

I could see the wait and see and use buy mac get iPad for $100 off or something along those lines, just incase sales drop off really quick.

I personally think the whole Intel switch has put apple in a pretty pickle with releasing products. When they were running PPC they decided pretty much everything. Processor releases were very hush hush. Then they went to intel and someone else was in control of the time line processor releases and updates were expected even more. Now with the whole nvidia and intel GPU processor thing I bet apple is really pissed off.

I have my own dilemma. I've got a G5 iMac that has went through 5 separate thermal shutdowns last night in 30 min. looking at a PDF and one open web page. Thinking crap this thing has the powersupply problem and its going to die soon. Now what to replace it with.

A Mac Pro would be nice when I want to start doing HD but wait thats a year away for me.
A Nice 27 Imac would be nice but wait I Don't need that much power right now and can build a PC gaming rig to play COD6 MW2
A MB Air would be nicer BUT wait they are old ass tech so.
A iPad would be nice but get this I don't even have a computer that meets the spec to allow it to hook up to.
A Mac uh apple AH HELL FU** IT
I have a headache thinking about it.
If this iMac is dying I wish it would just DIE and get it over with. I'm about to get my Glock and shoot the damn thing.

Ok breath breath.



Now

Does anyone here think as I do that the Air will go away and the 13" macbook pro and 15" macbook pro will be "Airized" "Airish" "Aired" "Aired Out" I could go on. :cool:
All the power and specs of and updated 15 or 13 but only without and Optical maybe loose one usb and that it. I would buy a 15" MBP Aired out. It would not be the Ultra portable but it would be a lighter and cooler looking 13 MBP or even 15 MBP. It would have a dedicated graphics card more than likely getting rid of the Optical drive.
Others have said as I have the Look to the air for the future Macbook designs.

Scottsdale would you buy such a beast. IT would not be an ultra portable. Just a true lighter MBP.




Chris

gwsat
Mar 25, 2010, 11:10 AM
This shows how sick in the head us Mac cult followers are... I also expected an update this week after Steve said this. We had seen Macs updated right before the iPhone, so Apple isn't necessarily not updating due to the iPad. In fact, it makes a lot of sense to get as many potential buyers in the store as possible buying the iPad and see a new Mac they like or buying a new Mac and also pickup an iPad. But the truth is, I am so sick in the head, as are most here, to think that Steve says "Not to worry," that I absolutely am convinced it's within the next ten days for sure.
I agree that most of we Mac nerds around here seem to also be Mac fanboys and probably put up with more than we should. When I first decided that I wanted a lightweight 13 inch laptop, I would have bought an MBA in a New York minute had it not been for its many weaknesses, which have been discussed to death here. Fortunately, the AppleCare coverage on my current 17 inch MPB doesn't run out for the better part of a year, so I have made up my mind to just sit tight until it does. I can't imagine that Apple won't have made something in a class with the impressive Sony Vaio Z i7 by that time. Right now, though, the MBA isn't in the same world with the Vaio Z i7 -- except, oh yeah -- the MBA runs OS X. :)

colourfastt
Mar 25, 2010, 01:12 PM
I noticed that every poster seems OBSESSED with this spec is better and that spec is better; the most IMPORTANT question -- and the one not being asked -- is: can the MBA RUN what you need? If yes, then buy it. If no, then buy a Windows system.

Scottsdale
Mar 25, 2010, 01:30 PM
I noticed that every poster seems OBSESSED with this spec is better and that spec is better; the most IMPORTANT question -- and the one not being asked -- is: can the MBA RUN what you need? If yes, then buy it. If no, then buy a Windows system.

That's just the point. Most of us are happy about everything except two main points. The largest concern is the RAM; with only 2 GB of RAM, and sharing 256 MB of it with the GPU, the MBA isn't capable of even covering the minimum RAM requirements of both OS X Snow Leopard and Windows 7. I have to run Windows 7 in Boot Camp on my MBA, and it's frustrating. I actually have found Windows 7 to be a much better OS to run video and graphics apps on, so it's important to me.

The second problem is the drive space. While 128 GB of SSD space is acceptable to many, to many others they have just that much in music... add in movies and most cannot even come close without at least 256 GB of SSD drive space. With the Sony Vaio Z, the user gets up to 512 GB of SSD drive space.

The real problem here isn't the base machine configurations for the many, it's the lack of BTO options allowing those who want a Mac that fits all of their needs and WANTS. We don't all buy the computer we need, as you state; most of us buy the computer we want. In addition, we all know our needs change greatly over time. What I need right now might be fulfilled by 4 GB of RAM and 256 GB of drive space, but what I might need two years from now is 8 GB of RAM and 512 GB of drive space. If Apple had the options to BTO these things, more people could get the Mac they really want.

I also want OS X, so a Mac is important to me too. I would love to have a Sony Vaio Z, but I would much rather prefer an Apple MacBook Air that met my very fair demands from a computer sold in 2010.

gwsat
Mar 25, 2010, 01:54 PM
I noticed that every poster seems OBSESSED with this spec is better and that spec is better; the most IMPORTANT question -- and the one not being asked -- is: can the MBA RUN what you need? If yes, then buy it. If no, then buy a Windows system.

That's just the point. Most of us are happy about everything except two main points. The largest concern is the RAM; with only 2 GB of RAM, and sharing 256 MB of it with the GPU, the MBA isn't capable of even covering the minimum RAM requirements of both OS X Snow Leopard and Windows 7. I have to run Windows 7 in Boot Camp on my MBA, and it's frustrating. I actually have found Windows 7 to be a much better OS to run video and graphics apps on, so it's important to me.
Scottsdale -- You touched on the precise reason why the current MBA is not for me. I routinely run Windows 7 in a VMware virtual machine on my MBP but my MBP has 6Gb of RAM. I learned from sad experience trying to run Fusion and Windows 7 on my MBP when it had only 2Gb of RAM that it doesn't work very well. As for Bootcamp, I used it briefly when I first got my MBP and hated having to reboot every time I wanted to shift between an OS X app and a Windows app. Then, I ran, not walked, to the VMware Web site, ordered Fusion and never looked back. It's too bad that Fusion running Windows is such a memory hog but there it is.

jungeliest
Mar 25, 2010, 01:59 PM
Scottsdale -- You touched on the precise reason why the current MBA is not for me. I routinely run Windows 7 in a VMware virtual machine on my MBA but my MBA has 6Gb of RAM. I learned from sad experience trying to run Fusion and Windows 7 on my MBA when it had only 2Gb of RAM that it doesn't work very well. As for Bootcamp, I used it briefly when I first got my MBA and hated having to reboot every time I wanted to shift between an OS X app and a Windows app. Then, I ran, not walked, to the VMware Web site, ordered Fusion and never looked back. It's too bad that Fusion running Windows is such a memory hog but there it is.

How come does your MBA have 6 GBs RAM?

xlii
Mar 25, 2010, 02:05 PM
Based on how long the updates are taking I now predict that the next MBA will be a holographic computer tattooed on our wrists.

AlmostThere
Mar 25, 2010, 02:25 PM
That's just the point. Most of us are happy about everything except ...


Agree with all of this in general, but I also put a financial value on the lack of updates.

We (work) put a 3 year lifetime on new hardware, so at 9 months old, purchasing a £2000 MBA today is roughly equivalent to throwing away £500 instantly. Every other supplier would have reduced prices by now.

glitch44
Mar 25, 2010, 02:42 PM
My prediction for the Rev D MBA (if they even make one) is Scottsdale gets one, takes it home, opens it, and immediately goes to Macrumors to start the "Can't wait for Rev E!" thread.

gwsat
Mar 25, 2010, 02:53 PM
Post deleted.

glitch44
Mar 25, 2010, 03:05 PM
The main reason I upped the RAM in my MBA from 2 to 6Gb was to be able to run Windows and VMware Fusion with a level of speed and stability that were satisfactory. When I had only 2Gb of RAM Windows apps were both too slow and too unstable.

You keep saying MBA (Macbook Air) but you obviously mean MBP (Macbook Pro).

gwsat
Mar 25, 2010, 03:28 PM
You keep saying MBA (Macbook Air) but you obviously mean MBP (Macbook Pro).
Right you are! That'll teach me not to use acronyms. I meant to say that I upped the RAM in my Macbook Pro. Nevertheless, contrary indications notwithstanding, I really do know the difference between a MBA and a MBP. Trust me on this. :)

Scottsdale
Mar 25, 2010, 03:55 PM
Agree with all of this in general, but I also put a financial value on the lack of updates.

We (work) put a 3 year lifetime on new hardware, so at 9 months old, purchasing a £2000 MBA today is roughly equivalent to throwing away £500 instantly. Every other supplier would have reduced prices by now.

I agree. Apple's system sucks for those of us who actually care about PERFORMANCE. Most people just want "it just works," for the simple things they do. As an AAPL shareholder, I am really glad sales of the iMac, MB, and supposedly MBP are really strong. At the same time, I find it most disgusting that the Pro user cannot buy a current MBP or Mac Pro. And I find it nearly equally problematic that the luxury brand buying MBA lovers cannot buy something really innovative and competing against the latest ultraportables. Who ever thought the MBA would be challenged by computers that are thinner, weigh less, are more powerful, have more features, and are far less money? Not only that, there are many choices now. And when considering the weight of the Sony Vaio Z is the same as the MBA, yet it has BluRay, Core i7, Nvidia 330 GT, 8 GB RAM, 512 GB SSD, aluminum or carbon fiber shell, and is better in virtually every way and probably more "pro" than the next MBP. It doesn't matter that it costs more, it matters that the buyer who wants those features can get it from Sony but there is NO Apple alternative.

As a buyer, and MBA fan, I really hate the system. IF Apple lowered the prices consistently through the end of the product's version life cycle, it would at least be fair. ALL other computer manufacturers update every three months or the prices drop severely. That's just the thing. At six months of age, a computer is absolutely technologically severely inferior to a new product and in terms of new technology is obsolete. As a buyer, I cannot justify spending money on ANY technology device except when it is brand new as in just released within a few months (weeks or days usually). I buy an iPhone the day it comes out, and I think people would be pretty wasteful with their money if they were willing to buy one today, yet people keep buying them. Doesn't everyone know that a new one is coming out in a few months??? But that's just it. Most people don't do themselves any favors when it comes to buying Macs or Apple products at all. I mean, the nature of technology is supply, demand and innovation... so surely Apple would be the same? But Apple is different, and people just don't realize that a Mac of ten month old technology is a terrible buy at the same price as the day it was released. If people really wanted to help themselves out, they would stop buying old products from Apple. If people stop buying this crap, Apple will update more regularly. So it comes to this - the reports are MBPs are selling like hotcakes, so why would Apple give a damn? As an AAPL shareholder, it's great... and remember Steve Jobs is shareholder number one! As a customer, I wish I could update every six months if I wanted to.

The most important concern I have as an AAPL shareholder is the fact that Apple doesn't take advantage of leveraging technology to keep all of its customers happy. Anyone should be able to buy a Mac that fulfills ALL of their needs and desires. If people want it, it needs to be at least a BTO option. If it's new tech, it needs to be at least available at a premium.

But this post surely will not do a bit of good and people will keep buying the crap Steve Jobs sells them. Outdated tech is more margin for AAPL, and always remember that Sir Steve does what's best for him... not what the average customer wants.

gwsat
Mar 25, 2010, 04:53 PM
I agree. Apple's system sucks for those of us who actually care about PERFORMANCE. Most people just want "it just works," for the simple things they do. As an AAPL shareholder, I am really glad sales of the iMac, MB, and supposedly MBP are really strong. At the same time, I find it most disgusting that the Pro user cannot buy a current MBP or Mac Pro. And I find it nearly equally problematic that the luxury brand buying MBA lovers cannot buy something really innovative and competing against the latest ultraportables.
I think that most of us who are long time Mac users are as frustrated as you are by Apple's having fallen further and further behind on the technology curve. It is particularly galling when one compares the now dated Macbook Air to the remarkably impressive new Sony Vaio Z i7. With one exception, which I will get to in a moment, The Vaio Z i7 is superior in every way.

Unfortunately, I fear that Apple is rather sanguine about all this because they know that most of its current users are not going anywhere. Why are we staying with Apple? Because Macs are the only computers that can run both OS X apps and Windows apps right out of the box. That's why Apple still has me around. I am not the only one who really wants an ultraportable and the Vaio Z i7 would be perfect for many if not most of us -- except that it can't run OS X.

All of this said, high end niche products, such as the Macbook Air and Pro are always vulnerable to changing public tastes because nothing is forever. I've seen it many times. I remember when CompuServe was riding high, before the Web started to predominate. Then every special interest group known to man moved on to the WWW. That didn't work out well for CIS, to say the least and proved to me that nothing is forever. Thus King Steve and his court had better be careful going forward or they could be riding for a fall.

Scottsdale
Mar 25, 2010, 05:46 PM
I think that most of us who are long time Mac users are as frustrated as you are by Apple's having fallen further and further behind on the technology curve. It is particularly galling when one compares the now dated Macbook Air to the remarkably impressive new Sony Vaio Z i7. With one exception, which I will get to in a moment, The Vaio Z i7 is superior in every way.

Unfortunately, I fear that Apple is rather sanguine about all this because they know that most of its current users are not going anywhere. Why are we staying with Apple? Because Macs are the only computers that can run both OS X apps and Windows apps right out of the box. That's why Apple still has me around. I am not the only one who really wants an ultraportable and the Vaio Z i7 would be perfect for many if not most of us -- except that it can't run OS X.

All of this said, high end niche products, such as the Macbook Air and Pro are always vulnerable to changing public tastes because nothing is forever. I've seen it many times. I remember when CompuServe was riding high, before the Web started to predominate. Then every special interest group known to man moved on to the WWW. That didn't work out well for CIS, to say the least and proved to me that nothing is forever. Thus King Steve and his court had better be careful going forward or they could be riding for a fall.

Nice post. I agree with everything you have stated... and it requires nothing more than a +1 to agree with that. However, it wouldn't be like me just to include a "+1," and I already did that once this week.

unvacme
Mar 25, 2010, 06:56 PM
ditto'd. I am waiting ("patiently" might be an exaggeration...) for the next update of the MB line...Air etc. I'd buy the current Air if it weren't for the fact that it's due for an update, so anything they do in RevD is just icing on the cake.

Here that Steve? I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU MONEY! The longer you wait, the longer it is until you get it.

he doesnt care about ur money

gwsat
Mar 25, 2010, 07:35 PM
Nice post. I agree with everything you have stated... and it requires nothing more than a +1 to agree with that. However, it wouldn't be like me just to include a "+1," and I already did that once this week.
Thanks. I agree that +1s are for weenies. Where's the challenge in that? :)

1984
Mar 26, 2010, 12:03 AM
With the Sony Vaio Z, the user gets up to 512 GB of SSD drive space.

The VAIO Z is twice as thick as the MacBook Air so it obviously has more room for such things. They both have 13-inch screens. That's where the similarity ends.

Paperboy2010
Mar 26, 2010, 09:05 AM
The VAIO Z is twice as thick as the MacBook Air so it obviously has more room for such things. They both have 13-inch screens. That's where the similarity ends.


Well technically, the MBA is .75" max and the Z is 1.3" max, so not exactly 'twice as think', but there certainly is a difference.

jhgnag
Mar 26, 2010, 12:29 PM
So I visiting my Mom last week and mentioned that I was thinking of getting a MBA so that I could Skype with my 2 year old when I travel for work. She showed up the next day with a 2.13 120SSD MBA for me. I know...crazy. I have a Dell E6400 I have to carry for work, but they have the whole thing locked down (no webcam, ability to install apps, etc.). Hence the MBA seemed like a good option due to size/weight. We have a 2 year old iMac as well at home.

So now that I've done some reading, I'm driving myself crazy trying to figure out what to do. Based on limited RAM and everyone's expectation that a new one is coming, not sure if I should return it and wait for the new one, or get a 13" MBP. My 14 day window ends 4/2. Wish I could predict the future.

I really have not idea what to do here. I'm thinking I would primarily use the MBA for surfing, Skype (when traveling), maybe watch a movie here or there, and some Aperture work on RAW files. The Aperture seems a little slow, but I'm wondering if that's more because I'm accessing the library on the iMac through the network, and not actually a RAM limitation.

Anyway, not sure if anyone has any thoughts. I'm driving myself nuts trying to figure out what to do. I really do like this machine. Seems very snappy (I'm thinking due to the SSD), but it's too much money to make a mistake.

I'd even consider the iPad if it had a webcam, but the Skype to my 2 year old is big driver here. I like being able to work/review pics in Aperture as well.

Thanks.

Paperboy2010
Mar 26, 2010, 12:53 PM
So I visiting my Mom last week and mentioned that I was thinking of getting a MBA so that I could Skype with my 2 year old when I travel for work. She showed up the next day with a 2.13 120SSD MBA for me. I know...crazy. I have a Dell E6400 I have to carry for work, but they have the whole thing locked down (no webcam, ability to install apps, etc.). Hence the MBA seemed like a good option due to size/weight. We have a 2 year old iMac as well at home.

So now that I've done some reading, I'm driving myself crazy trying to figure out what to do. Based on limited RAM and everyone's expectation that a new one is coming, not sure if I should return it and wait for the new one, or get a 13" MBP. My 14 day window ends 4/2. Wish I could predict the future.

I really have not idea what to do here. I'm thinking I would primarily use the MBA for surfing, Skype (when traveling), maybe watch a movie here or there, and some Aperture work on RAW files. The Aperture seems a little slow, but I'm wondering if that's more because I'm accessing the library on the iMac through the network, and not actually a RAM limitation.

Anyway, not sure if anyone has any thoughts. I'm driving myself nuts trying to figure out what to do. I really do like this machine. Seems very snappy (I'm thinking due to the SSD), but it's too much money to make a mistake.

I'd even consider the iPad if it had a webcam, but the Skype to my 2 year old is big driver here. I like being able to work/review pics in Aperture as well.

Thanks.

Seems like a good problem to have....I'd use the MBA intensively over the next few days to see if it can really handle EVERYTHING you might throw at it. If a new one is announced on Tuesday, then if you want, go ahead and swap. If the current MBA proves to be sufficient for your current uses, keep it, otherwise I would consider returning it and waiting for whatever comes next (whenever that is....)

gwsat
Mar 26, 2010, 01:39 PM
So I visiting my Mom last week and mentioned that I was thinking of getting a MBA so that I could Skype with my 2 year old when I travel for work. She showed up the next day with a 2.13 120SSD MBA for me. I know...crazy. I have a Dell E6400 I have to carry for work, but they have the whole thing locked down (no webcam, ability to install apps, etc.). Hence the MBA seemed like a good option due to size/weight. We have a 2 year old iMac as well at home.

So now that I've done some reading, I'm driving myself crazy trying to figure out what to do. Based on limited RAM and everyone's expectation that a new one is coming, not sure if I should return it and wait for the new one, or get a 13" MBP. My 14 day window ends 4/2. Wish I could predict the future.

I really have not idea what to do here. I'm thinking I would primarily use the MBA for surfing, Skype (when traveling), maybe watch a movie here or there, and some Aperture work on RAW files. The Aperture seems a little slow, but I'm wondering if that's more because I'm accessing the library on the iMac through the network, and not actually a RAM limitation.

Anyway, not sure if anyone has any thoughts. I'm driving myself nuts trying to figure out what to do. I really do like this machine. Seems very snappy (I'm thinking due to the SSD), but it's too much money to make a mistake.

I'd even consider the iPad if it had a webcam, but the Skype to my 2 year old is big driver here. I like being able to work/review pics in Aperture as well.
The MBA woud probably be more than adequate for your needs, with one possible exception: you seem like a long time Windows guy so if you wanted to be able to conveniently run Windows apps on a Mac, the current model MBA would be a poor choice. It's hardwired 2Gb of RAM would almost certainly be insufficient to run a virtualization program and Windows comfortably. If you don't need that, though, it seems to me that your MBA should suit you nicely.

Thunder82
Mar 26, 2010, 03:47 PM
Personally, I can't stand the "if it will run all of your apps, buy the current model" responses. (or keep it if you've already purchased it) Most people expect 3+ years of use out of a computer. (18-24mo for me) The real question you should ask yourself is "will this do what I need 18-36mo from now." Given the current MBP/MBA lines are already using 2+ year old technology, the answer is most likely not. (unless safari and mail are the only two apps you ever open)

Anywho, I'm in the same boat as a lot of you. I'm beyond frustrated with Apple and honestly considering a vaio Z. The fact that many of us require an update and apple will not give a time frame or even a slight hint as to new specs, makes me not want to own an Apple computer. I've become pretty dependant on OSX, but a move back to windows (and investing in software that I know I'll always have proper hardware to run) might be in my best interests. Ticks me off that apple has no problems leaving their notebooks in the dust to focus on some device that they're trying to find a market for.

Arrakeen
Mar 26, 2010, 04:14 PM
I would love to hear your thoughts...did you buy it online and configure through Sony Style, or just go into a store? How is it bulk wise, the height of 1.3" sounds like a lot? What else was a part of the system to get you up to the 2349?

Just my 2 Cents: I don't think the heigt of the Vaio Z is a problem, even if it's not as thin as a MBA or Vaio X. :) Build quality is fine.

gwsat
Mar 26, 2010, 04:15 PM
Anywho, I'm in the same boat as a lot of you. I'm beyond frustrated with Apple and honestly considering a vaio Z. The fact that many of us require an update and apple will not give a time frame or even a slight hint as to new specs, makes me not want to own an Apple computer. I've become pretty dependant on OSX, but a move back to windows (and investing in software that I know I'll always have proper hardware to run) might be in my best interests. Ticks me off that apple has no problems leaving their notebooks in the dust to focus on some device that they're trying to find a market for.
I understand that the iPhone and iPod are cash cows and Apple hopes for lightning to strike the same way with the iPad. It's getting hard to remember that Apple started out as a computer manufacturer. But I digress.

My biggest frustration with Apple is that, despite the scandalous delay in updating either the MBA or MBP, they still own me. Why, because as frustrated as I am I'm not quite ready to give up on either OS X as my primary operating system or Apple as a company. I am still cutting them a little slack because I remember why there was a looong delay before Apple finally replaced the Powerbook G4 with the Macbook Pro. Apple got trapped that time by trying to figure out a way to shoehorn a version of the G5 into a new laptop but couldn't pull it off. I suspect something similar is going on now, although this time It probably has to do with the graphics processor rather than the CPU. Thus, I'm going to try to keep an even strain and wait and see what happens when something finally does happen.

Fortunately, the extended AppleCare coverage on my MBP has almost a year to run so I really can afford to wait. Nevertheless, I agree with you that it's really frustrating.

Arrakeen
Mar 26, 2010, 04:16 PM
I agree that there's a leap there, but the MBA is more outdated than the MBP, so if they're updating the MBP, they should be updating the MBA. Truthfully, if they only update the Pro, then I would take that as a signal that the MBA has been left to die since it's been so long.

An interestin thought. And a thought I don't like. I like competition, not surrender. ;)

gwsat
Mar 26, 2010, 04:33 PM
Just my 2 Cents: I don't think the heigt of the Vaio Z is a problem, even if it's not as thin as a MBA or Vaio X. :) Build quality is fine.
As noted in my last post, I agree that the thickness of the Vaio Z is not a big deal. I posted earlier only to clear up any misimpression to the effect that the Z is thinner and lighter than the MBA. It's not. Nevertheless, it is still not inordinately thick, weighs only 3.06 pounds, and is far more advanced than either the MBA or the 13 inch MBP.

BothBarsOn
Mar 26, 2010, 07:51 PM
They do make great quality products that look beautiful, and are marketing geniuses with a great OS though.... That's how they get you :cool:

If someone does a great job of selling me a beautiful-looking quality product with a great OS, I don't feel like I've been "got". :)

Edit: which is not to say that I disagree with the notion that Apple has fallen way, way behind in terms of pure specs

Scottsdale
Mar 26, 2010, 07:55 PM
Personally, I can't stand the "if it will run all of your apps, buy the current model" responses. (or keep it if you've already purchased it) Most people expect 3+ years of use out of a computer. (18-24mo for me) The real question you should ask yourself is "will this do what I need 18-36mo from now." Given the current MBP/MBA lines are already using 2+ year old technology, the answer is most likely not. (unless safari and mail are the only two apps you ever open)

Anywho, I'm in the same boat as a lot of you. I'm beyond frustrated with Apple and honestly considering a vaio Z. The fact that many of us require an update and apple will not give a time frame or even a slight hint as to new specs, makes me not want to own an Apple computer. I've become pretty dependant on OSX, but a move back to windows (and investing in software that I know I'll always have proper hardware to run) might be in my best interests. Ticks me off that apple has no problems leaving their notebooks in the dust to focus on some device that they're trying to find a market for.

Nice post. I agree that people need to look to the future and not what a computer does right now. 2 GB of RAM isn't even enough for right now, so how in the hell is it going to be okay in two years? People need to stop buying the MBA until it meets their needs well into the future. Right now, the MBA is exactly what it was in October 2008 - that's a problem.

Apple definitely knows people are used to its OS X and like it, and it's a smart tactic to use except when it destroys the relationship between customer and company. Steve Jobs doesn't give a damn about our experience, all he cares about is his stock price. He is incredibly innovative, but he thinks he knows all people when in truth he only knows his own mind. People defend this arrogant jerk all of the time and look up to him as though he were a God. He isn't even a good leader. He is a great innovator and perfect leader of innovation for Apple, but that Apple Board is running the company and it's for the best. We have a great balance of power within the company, and it doesn't matter to the shareholders that Jobs looks like the supreme leader... all that matters is the current and future price of AAPL.

In the end, we would all be better off to get used to both OS X Snow Leopard and Windows 7 and not put "all of our eggs in one basket." The point is Windows 7 is currently nearly as capable as OS X, so if Apple cannot fulfill our demands, a PC will. And Apple may not be considering the repercussions of its failure to adapt to an innovative world that wants more than "it just works." They want it works as well on OS X as it does on Windows 7, and it's just as fast and capable in ALL respects.


Just my 2 Cents: I don't think the heigt of the Vaio Z is a problem, even if it's not as thin as a MBA or Vaio X. :) Build quality is fine.

The weight is by far the most important factor. The Vaio Z is essentially the exact same size as the MBP, yet as lightweight as the MBA, yet more powerful than both the MBP and MBA put together... and probably 35% more powerful than the next MacBook "PRO." Imagine that, a consumer product light years ahead of the MB "PRO." The "Pro" branding is really a JOKE. Sort of like the 21-year-old "GENIUS" that I have to go through to get my Apple product fixed. The same "Genius" that is an arrogant and cocky jerk that knows less about any Apple product than the average forum member here.

My prediction for the Rev D MBA (if they even make one) is Scottsdale gets one, takes it home, opens it, and immediately goes to Macrumors to start the "Can't wait for Rev E!" thread.

Ha ha. Actually, if it has two RAM slots, more drive space options, glass trackpad and an Nvidia 310m, I promise to not look forward for six months. That is a pretty big promise, but then I doubt Apple will cover those four requests.

gwsat
Mar 26, 2010, 08:22 PM
The "Pro" branding is really a JOKE. Sort of like the 21-year-old "GENIUS" that I have to go through to get my Apple product fixed. The same "Genius" that is an arrogant and cocky jerk that knows less about any Apple product than the average forum member here.
I have suffered more than my fair share of frustration at the hands of a variety of help desk "experts" whose arrogance significantly exceded their knowledge. Nevertheless, lately I have had pretty good experience with some of the guys who work behind the Genius Bar at the OKC Apple Store. When my MBP stopped working and I took it in, the Genius who helped me was both courteous and knowledgeable. He quickly diagnosed the problem as a failed logic board and sent it in to the repair center for me. I asked him to note on the repair order my request that the repair center not reimage the hard drive unless absolutely necessary. He did so, so when the machine came back with the new logic board installed the hard drive was as it had been when I brought it in for repair. Fortunately, I had AppleCare so I didn't have to pay out of pocket for it.

Another time, another one of the OKC Apple Store Geniuses helped me figure out how to install more RAM. They have some employees working at the Genius Bar who are not qualified Geniuses but the name tags of the employees tell you who are and who aren't.

Now that I've bragged on them, I'll probably end up hating the encounter the next time I have to consult one of the Geniuses. :)

Scottsdale
Mar 26, 2010, 08:37 PM
I have suffered more than my fair share of frustration at the hands of a variety of help desk "experts" whose arrogance significantly exceded their knowledge. Nevertheless, lately I have had pretty good experience with some of the guys who work behind the Genius Bar at the OKC Apple Store. When my MBP stopped working and I took it in, the Genius who helped me was both courteous and knowledgeable. He quickly diagnosed the problem as a failed logic board and sent it in to the repair center for me. I asked him to note on the repair order my request that the repair center not reimage the hard drive unless absolutely necessary. He did so, so when the machine came back with the new logic board installed the hard drive was as it had been when I brought it in for repair. Fortunately, I had AppleCare so I didn't have to pay out of pocket for it.

Another time, another one of the OKC Apple Store Geniuses helped me figure out how to install more RAM. They have some employees working at the Genius Bar who are not qualified Geniuses but the name tags of the employees tell you who are and who aren't.

Now that I've bragged on them, I'll probably end up hating the encounter the next time I have to consult one of the Geniuses. :)

The point I was trying to make is that Apple brands these things so highly that how can we not be frustrated when we learn the truth? A MacBook "Pro" is about as Pro as the Apple "Genius" is a true genius. Sure you have some good experiences, but a genius is Einstein not a 21-year-old who knows how to add some RAM to a computer... and a pro computer is not a MBP (certainly any "pro" would be much better off with a Vaio Z). A Mac Pro is more "pro" but it's 14-month-old technology.

Where Apple really needs to keep its products current and relevant is the Pro branding Macs (MBP & MP) and the luxury branding Macs (MBA). A MacBook can keep a C2D and Nvidia GPU, that's from October 2008; it's completely different to sell a premium or pro brand and be so ridiculously far from current and relevant that they're nothing like other Pro or luxury brand competitors.

gwsat
Mar 26, 2010, 08:58 PM
The point I was trying to make is that Apple brands these things so highly that how can we not be frustrated when we learn the truth? A MacBook "Pro" is about as Pro as the Apple "Genius" is a true genius. Sure you have some good experiences, but a genius is Einstein not a 21-year-old who knows how to add some RAM to a computer... and a pro computer is not a MBP (certainly any "pro" would be much better off with a Vaio Z). A Mac Pro is more "pro" but it's 14-month-old technology.

Where Apple really needs to keep its products current and relevant is the Pro branding Macs (MBP & MP) and the luxury branding Macs (MBA). A MacBook can keep a C2D and Nvidia GPU, that's from October 2008; it's completely different to sell a premium or pro brand and be so ridiculously far from current and relevant that they're nothing like other Pro or luxury brand competitors.
I agree with you. In fact, the main reason I posted about my good experience with the Apple Store's version of the help desk tech was to point out how unusual it was. Apple didn't invent sales talk and puffing but they certainly aren't above using them.:)

codehead
Mar 27, 2010, 02:02 AM
So I visiting my Mom last week and mentioned that I was thinking of getting a MBA so that I could Skype with my 2 year old when I travel for work. She showed up the next day with a 2.13 120SSD MBA for me.

Would your mother like to adopt me?

Scottsdale
Mar 27, 2010, 12:47 PM
Would your mother like to adopt me?

LOL, my mom has bought me a few technology devices she thought I would like... the only time she gets it right is when there's an Apple logo on it.

Paperboy2010
Mar 27, 2010, 05:38 PM
HAVE NO FEAR!!! Apple will be announcing new MBP's and MBA's this Tuesday. I know this because I just bought a Sony Z. I was going to wait, but the guy made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I was at a SonyStyle store looking at the Z's and after going back and forth about the features, he said he would waive the restocking fee (15% within 2 weeks) AND throw in a copy of MS Office Small biz ($250 value) and now I'm typing this message on my new machine. If the new MBA comes out on Tuesday, I'll make an informed decision and if I want to return the Z, then so be it. It is a nice machine and since I'm not the techie a lot of you are, I think it'll be fine for my needs.

Scottsdale
Mar 27, 2010, 07:33 PM
HAVE NO FEAR!!! Apple will be announcing new MBP's and MBA's this Tuesday. I know this because I just bought a Sony Z. I was going to wait, but the guy made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I was at a SonyStyle store looking at the Z's and after going back and forth about the features, he said he would waive the restocking fee (15% within 2 weeks) AND throw in a copy of MS Office Small biz ($250 value) and now I'm typing this message on my new machine. If the new MBA comes out on Tuesday, I'll make an informed decision and if I want to return the Z, then so be it. It is a nice machine and since I'm not the techie a lot of you are, I think it'll be fine for my needs.

LMAO. Just like my purchases except I actually am sucker enough to wait for the new MBA to be introduced. Please let us know exactly what you think about the Z. Good luck with it.

skate71290
Mar 28, 2010, 04:40 PM
I have the first MacBook Air line-up ancient reduced size 1.6GHZ chip.... slow as.... but:

MacBook Air Revision D - Patent Pending ;)
- Glass Screen... incredibly thin sheet to reduce weight and size?
- 4GB DDR3 RAM - 2GB is just slooooowwww
- Minimum 2.0GHZ Core 2 Duo processor... but i7 @ 2.93 Turbo would kickass
- Glass Trackpad
- Stereo Speakers
- New Display-port (can't remember the name) for new 30" ACD which should also be built for the date below ;)
- 2 USB/1 USB and Superdrive built in :)
- 1GB ATI - whatever number means the best - so i jizz in my pants when i play Modern Warfare 2 via Bootcamp :)
- 500GB 7200RPM Standard HDD/256GB SSD at no extra charge ;)
- 8 hour battery life with Wi-Fi and half brightness ;)
- Water pipe cooling system... actually... it heats my room up at uni... scrap that ;)
- Mac OS 10.7 Lion Gold Master just for MacBook Air customers - because we are special
- All this by April 1st (convenient date) :P

skate71290
Mar 28, 2010, 04:59 PM
Interesting .. I run a VM, Word, Flock, Firefox, Adium, and iChat simultaneously on my Air with NO issues. I hardly consider that to be 'unacceptable'.

i do... you're running Word and Firefox... Safari and iWork would bring the system and the Virtual Machine to a standstill... and i'm guessing what you are running is on a 2.13GHZ MBA with SSD? :D

skate71290
Mar 28, 2010, 05:17 PM
You're 100% correct...

That's just the thing. The MacBook Pros DO NOT HAVE "Pro" level equipment or components included. The 13" MBP has an Nvidia 9400m. There are so many non-"Pro" PCs that have dedicated graphics, better CPUs, and far more capabilities that are consumer branded. Even the low-end 15" MBP doesn't have dedicated graphics. It gets worse from there... expandability comes with an Express Card/34 port, but Apple removed it from the 15" MBP and never included it in the 13" MBP. Here's the thing. I was looking at a 13" ultraportable Dell Vostro v13 for $449 and it included an ExpressCard/34 port! How is Apple's negligence so severe when it comes to its hardware that being .95" thin is more important than functionality and capabilities of a true Pro. Apple calls the 13" MBP a "Pro" because it has a FireWire Port, yes a FireWire Port and an aluminum case, LMAO! Most "Pros" would tell you that they'll gladly add a half an inch to the MBP to get the capabilities they need. Even the 17" MBP had a low-end mid grade graphics card when introduced with the 9600, but that was clear back fourteen months ago. Why not at least update the graphics? The people that buy the MBPs and are happy are Prosumers, tech enthusiasts, and Mac OS X lovers. I don't know many pro users would actually be happy with an MBP, but it's surely not a professional grade machine in any way... even with its brightest model, the 17" MBP.

The whole thing here is Apple has its customers addicted to its OS and its hardwares' industrial minimalistic looks and appearance. It holds its OS X operating system hostage to outrageous prices. Then it adds "high-end" low cost adds to make the justification for extreme price points; these are things like $1 worth of LED backlights for keyboard, $0.10 worth of glass for silky-smooth trackpad, and an aluminum case that costs less than $5 for raw aluminum. In addition, when the aluminum cased Mac notebooks are dropped they, do not protect the case like plastic or carbon fiber, instead they dent and Apple VOIDS the warranty - in addition, they charge $400 or more for $5 worth of aluminum for replacement of damaged case parts.

I am glad I don't need a "Pro" laptop, because I couldn't live with the MBP as my computer if I needed to do anything "professional." I love the MBA, but I want an update. I want to spend some money and I want my AAPL to rise in value, and it's going to take Mac updates! Apple really is out of line here, in my opinion. I just don't get how some people will go pay full price for hardware that is ten months old. If I had to buy a Mac right now, the iMac or white MB are the only Macs that are a fair value proposition. Come on Apple, update the damn Macs SOON!

in all fairness i never look at cost (not because i have that much money... i'm a independent uni student) when comparing Windows to Apple because the costs increase Tenfold when stuff happens to your Windows Laptop e.g:
- Anti-Virus - £20 a year (if not more)
- OS Discs... up to £250
- Office 2007 - £120
- Breakages/Damages... PhoneBill @50p a minute, even then, no guarantee they will help you fix it
- **** support... no guarantee it will get fixed.... new laptop?
- It's Windows!
- If going for design 1% (not official...) would choose a Windows computer/laptop...

Serv
Mar 29, 2010, 09:04 AM
- Office 2007 - £120

Not gonna argue with you about the other costs but you'll have to get a copy of iWork or Office 2008 if you plan on doing any work on your mac. Granted, both are cheaper £71 (iWork) and £109.95 (Office 2008). There's a special discount on the online store as well, so you can get a copy of Office 2008 for £20 less.

First post, anyways, currently subsisting on an HP Mini 2140 with a 17" HP dv9700t for the heaver tasks. I'll be getting my first mac on the latter part of May, I hope the updates will come by then. I think the Air would be a great fit for me if it weren't for the 2 gigs of RAM, really the biggest upgrade I'm looking forward to in Rev D. If Apple somehow overlooks this in their next update, I'd probably settle for a 13" Pro or something.

Have a nice day ^^.

iAmLegend
Mar 29, 2010, 10:19 AM
i thought Apple was going to terminate the MBA line due to terrible sales? Have they announced Rev. D's are coming?

I love my MBA, but I could hardly blame Apple for abandoning it and focusing on the iPad (which is projecting 8-10 million sales in 2010 alone.)

gwsat
Mar 29, 2010, 11:47 AM
I think the Air would be a great fit for me if it weren't for the 2 gigs of RAM, really the biggest upgrade I'm looking forward to in Rev D. If Apple somehow overlooks this in their next update, I'd probably settle for a 13" Pro or something.
I agree completely with your analysis of the MBA. But for its limited hardwired 2Gb or RAM I would already have one. As it is , though, that unfortunate limitation eliminates the Rev C from further consideration. Like you, I will be interested to see what Rev D brings, if there is a Rev D. Oh, well, maybe Apple will figure out a way make the 13 inch MBP lighter.

gri
Mar 29, 2010, 03:06 PM
I agree completely with your analysis of the MBA. But for its limited hardwired 2Gb or RAM I would already have one. As it is , though, that unfortunate limitation eliminates the Rev C from further consideration. Like you, I will be interested to see what Rev D brings, if there is a Rev D. Oh, well, maybe Apple will figure out a way make the 13 inch MBP lighter.

I wonder if Apple will abandon the MBA (Oh no!) - but - give the MBP the air form factor, essentially giving us a 13, 15 and maybe even 17 inch MBA. Leave out the superdrive (optional as external), especially since they are so reluctant to adopt Blue Ray. Would be the same move as back than when they left out the Floppy Drive, remember? Everyone shouted bloody murder but they were right. Might be the same with CD/DVD, especially with the trend indicated that they are pushing live streaming/downloads of content. And it might explain the longer time they need to shift the lines...

Arrakeen
Mar 29, 2010, 04:59 PM
HAVE NO FEAR!!! Apple will be announcing new MBP's and MBA's this Tuesday. I know this because I just bought a Sony Z. I was going to wait, but the guy made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I was at a SonyStyle store looking at the Z's and after going back and forth about the features, he said he would waive the restocking fee (15% within 2 weeks) AND throw in a copy of MS Office Small biz ($250 value) and now I'm typing this message on my new machine. If the new MBA comes out on Tuesday, I'll make an informed decision and if I want to return the Z, then so be it. It is a nice machine and since I'm not the techie a lot of you are, I think it'll be fine for my needs.

Tuesday before eastern? ;) ...I'm eager to compare but not likely to give back my Z at all. :)

Paperboy2010
Mar 29, 2010, 05:16 PM
Tuesday before eastern? ;) ...I'm eager to compare but not likely to give back my Z at all. :)

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the Z as well. I wonder how much lighter / smaller it could've been if they didn't put the optical drive in it. I don't really expect to use mine all that much (though I realize it'll be great for movies on flights)

jhgnag
Mar 29, 2010, 07:36 PM
Would your mother like to adopt me?

LOL, my mom has bought me a few technology devices she thought I would like... the only time she gets it right is when there's an Apple logo on it.

It was pretty crazy of her to do that. She's an incredible Mom, but shouldn't be spending that kind of money on me.

Well, still not really sure what to do here. The MBA seems to be doing everything I need it to. Aperture seems to be running well (but there is always room for improvement). I am a Windows user with work, so I may have a need to run Windows in the future and have read some of the concerns with the MBA.

So I'm assuming the 14 day return policy is hard & fast. I guess i need to make a decision by Thursday. Here is how I've broken down my options:

-Keep the MBA
-Return the MBA and get a 13" MBP (4MB)
-Return the MBA and hopefully there is 3 lb. MBA or MBP revision offered soon


If I return the MBA, it will cost me $169 for a gamble that a new MBA (or MBA-like MBP) to be released very soon. Of course, it doesn't sound like anyone has any idea when the next release will be, other than it should be soon based on prior history.

What to do.....what to do....

Am I reading posts correctly that most of the time announcements are made on Tuesdays? If so, it would sure make my decision a whole lot easier if they made an announcement tomorrow:)

Serv
Mar 30, 2010, 01:08 AM
I wonder if Apple will abandon the MBA (Oh no!) - but - give the MBP the air form factor, essentially giving us a 13, 15 and maybe even 17 inch MBA. Leave out the superdrive (optional as external).
I don't understand (the "Oh no!" part) surely you're interested in the Air because of its form factor and not the "Air" scribbled in the bottom part of the laptop's display in silver whatchamacallit. An MBP in Air form sounds awesome, I'd seriously consider a 15" (if it were around 4-4.5 lbs) if that were the case. I can really see the dedicated graphics card coming in handy.

Have a nice day ^^.

gri
Mar 30, 2010, 08:40 AM
I don't understand (the "Oh no!" part) surely you're interested in the Air because of its form factor and not the "Air" scribbled in the bottom part of the laptop's display in silver whatchamacallit. An MBP in Air form sounds awesome, I'd seriously consider a 15" (if it were around 4-4.5 lbs) if that were the case. I can really see the dedicated graphics card coming in handy.

Have a nice day ^^.

The "oh no" was a spice of irony as some peopl ehere are convicned that it will be EOL'd soon. I would hate to see that if my other prediction does not come true. I indeed want one since it first came out (but hesitated due to the low specs such as 2 G RAM) for its portability. My travel bag gets heavier and heavier it seems, my 1st gen MBP does not help either.

gwsat
Mar 30, 2010, 10:05 AM
The "oh no" was a spice of irony as some peopl ehere are convicned that it will be EOL'd soon. I would hate to see that if my other prediction does not come true. I indeed want one since it first came out (but hesitated due to the low specs such as 2 G RAM) for its portability. My travel bag gets heavier and heavier it seems, my 1st gen MBP does not help either.
Yeah, the MBA's hardwired 2Gb of RAM has been a deal breaker for me, too. That's too bad because its slimness and light weight are both very appealing. As noted in my last post, I am hoping against hope that Apple does something to improve the MBA's memory problems with the next update. As the weeks keep flying by, though, I am beginning to wonder whether Apple will refresh any of its notebook line before summer.

gglockner
Mar 30, 2010, 10:46 AM
Yeah, the MBA's hardwired 2Gb of RAM has been a deal breaker for me, too. That's too bad because its slimness and light weight are both very appealing. As noted in my last post, I am hoping against hope that Apple does something to improve the MBA's memory problems with the next update. As the weeks keep flying by, though, I am beginning to wonder whether Apple will refresh any of its notebook line before summer.

I think this sums it up. Many people are complaining about the lack of memory slots, but the real issue is that there isn't enough memory in the Air. If Apple simply changed the SSD model to 4GB RAM, I'd place my order today. All the other upgrades that have been debated ad nauseam are nice to have but not necessary for me.

Alas, another Tuesday without MacBook Pro/Air upgrades. I wish they were coming soon, but I think Apple is deliberately holding them back during the marketing blitz for the iPad. Perhaps upgrades are coming at WWDC in June. But with a lot of travel scheduled for the next two months, I'd love to get a new Air before that. Apple, take my money, please!

TSE
Mar 30, 2010, 11:36 AM
Base MacBook Air - Core i5-520UM 1.73ghz, 4 GBs RAM, 128 GB SSD, Intel HD Graphics, 7 Hour Battery (actually around 6 hours) - $1299

Upgraded MacBook Air - Core i5-540UM 2.0ghz, 4 GBs RAM, 256 GB SSD, ATI Radeon HD 5450, 6 Hour Battery (actually around 5 hours) - $1599

Notes:

-Intel HD Graphics are close in comparison to nVidia 9400
-The combination of UM processors, SSD, Intel Graphics should give better battery life
-ATI Radeon HD 5450 is a pretty good performer, but very very light on the energy
-Prices lower because the cheaper, energy efficient processors, SSD prices are going way down, etc.

gglockner
Mar 30, 2010, 12:17 PM
TSE, is this a rumor or just wishful thinking?

stewie1
Mar 30, 2010, 12:32 PM
If that is true, then forget the iPad... MBA all the way. Fingers crossed.

glitch44
Mar 30, 2010, 12:53 PM
TSE, is this a rumor or just wishful thinking?

It's wishful thinking.

TSE
Mar 30, 2010, 12:59 PM
It's wishful thinking, but I think it is pretty reasonable...

The UM processors would probably be slightly slower than the current Core 2 Duos, but not by much. The difference there is their energy usage is only half of the current Core i3s/i5s.

The Intel HD isn't terrible, and would be cheap for Apple. Also it would save on energy. The ATI Radeon 5450 is faster than the current 9400M and is very light on the energy and heat. Apple's relationship with ATI has also been getting better.

SSD prices have come way way way down. And at those price points the Air won't take many customers away from the MacBook/MacBook Pro.

Scottsdale
Mar 30, 2010, 01:09 PM
Base MacBook Air - Core i5-520UM 1.73ghz, 4 GBs RAM, 128 GB SSD, Intel HD Graphics, 7 Hour Battery (actually around 6 hours) - $1299

Upgraded MacBook Air - Core i5-540UM 2.0ghz, 4 GBs RAM, 256 GB SSD, ATI Radeon HD 5450, 6 Hour Battery (actually around 5 hours) - $1599

Notes:

-Intel HD Graphics are close in comparison to nVidia 9400
-The combination of UM processors, SSD, Intel Graphics should give better battery life
-ATI Radeon HD 5450 is a pretty good performer, but very very light on the energy
-Prices lower because the cheaper, energy efficient processors, SSD prices are going way down, etc.

Where are you coming up with your Core i5 CPU information? You are definitely stating ultra low voltage, but the current Core i5 ultra low voltage CPUs are around 1 GHz not 2 GHz? From some projected roadmaps I read, the new chip you mentioned is supposed to be around 1.2 GHz and boost to 2 GHz (the current Core i5-520UM is at 1.06 GHz and boosts to 1.86 GHz). Does it really make sense to go from 1.86/1.6 GHz (where MBA CPUs actually perform most of the time) down to 1.06/1.2 GHz that boosts to 1.86/2GHz?

In addition, these are very low-end CPUs with 2 MB of L3 cache. And the graphics are worse than a low voltage CPU because they run at 166 MHz to 500 MHz maximum when overclocked. Any projected idea of the CPU you're mentioning points towards Late Q3 2010? Would Apple really wait that long?

The Core i7-6x0LM are the stated replacement low voltage CPUs for the current SL9x00 C2D CPUs. In addition, the graphics are far more capable in these CPUs running at 266 MHz to 566 MHz. Apple cannot accept graphics that are so inferior in the Core i5 CPUs you mentioned. Also, when looking ahead to the next/future Core i7-6xxUM (ultra low voltage) CPUs we see 500 MHz graphics frequencies which even furthers the potential of ultra low voltage in MBA but as a Core i7 high-end CPU.

Why would Apple go so far backwards for a high-end MBA? Why would Apple go backwards considering the iPad now fits the secondary web device and low-end price point? If there wasn't an iPad coming to fit the demand for netbook like performance, it might make sense for Apple to further lower the price of the MBA and focus on mobility over performance like a Mac. The MBA is useful to me because it offers MB like performance yet with an ultraportable footprint/case. I wouldn't want an MBA that performs at about 60% of the current MBA and goes further back then that when considering Intel GMA IGP especially at these frequencies. A low voltage Intel GMA IGP is pathetic enough, to go further back from there is completely insane... especially when Apple brags about 5X graphics performance from Nvidia and developed OpenCL right into Snow Leopard. These ultra low voltage Core i5 CPUs make even less sense than Core i7 ultra low voltage CPUs. I certainly hope Apple sticks with a low voltage CPU in the MBA, but if it's going to go ultra low voltage, I surely pray it goes with a Core i7 variant as the Core i5 CPUs are simply completely inferior in comparison via clock speed and even more importantly graphics frequency.

How about the possibility of an ATI 5450? Why wouldn't Apple use a hybrid system to provide even greater battery life yet supporting even greater capabilities? A high-end MBA with a 310m and Optimus enabling use of Intel IGP when capable enough and only turning on 310m when necessary for the user to get performance wanted in a nicer computer. Let's assume Apple doesn't use a hybrid system or has designed its own for the use of an ATI card, would Apple really be able to use a 5450 in the MBA? Mac users always want Apple to use a high-end graphics card even in the MBPs and are most often extremely disappointed. The 5450 would be an MBP graphics card for those hoping for a much nicer card (like a 5830 or even 5870). The 330m would be much more realistic on the MBP than what people want too. I see an Nvidia 310m as the likely card for an MBA that gets a dedicated/hybrid card. I don't even know if Apple can account for the TDP required of these cards on top of the power required from an Arrandale CPU, especially low voltage over ultra low voltage. Using a dedicated 5450 over hybrid of using Intel IGP/and a dedicated card gets great battery life as only uses dedicated card when needed. Although, a 5450 might work if Apple turns off the Intel GMA IGP. However, we don't need a 5450 all the time, and it's probably a 60%+ performance improvement over the 9400m (according to a few numbers over at notebook check) - but this would require battery drain of running it all the time. I suppose a 5450 is possible, but definitely not on my preferred low voltage CPUs.

I really don't know what Apple will use in the MBA, but if it isn't stamped Core i7, it's probably going to be a huge loss in performance capabilities over the current Core 2 Duo SL9x00 CPUs in the current v 2,1 MBAs. Also, if it doesn't have an Nvidia or ATI graphics card, it will be a huge performance loss over the current 9400m... and a Core i5 would be even worse for graphics than a Core i7 CPU's GMA IGP.

I still feel that we will all be better off with a Core 2 Duo CPU/Nvidia GPU in the MBA over either ultra low voltage Arrandale and Intel GMA IGP which would be a huge loss in our graphics capabilities. In the end, I hope you're wrong not for the sake of me being right, but for the hopes of an improved MBA that moves forward in terms of performance capabilities. If the iPad was another year away, it would make sense for Apple to lower the price of the MBA to further capitalize on portability. Since we have an iPad for web browsing type ultraportability, the MBA lives for performance and ultraportability being tied in terms of user requirements and expectations.

TSE
Mar 30, 2010, 01:54 PM
The thing is Apple and Intel have always had a very close relationship and the current MacBook Air processors were customized specifically for the Air... this time around they don't have that relationship and none of the current processors fit the bill.

I can see where you are coming from in regards to the processors though. I can see it going either way - decreasing the performance in favor of battery life and lowering the prices, or having the price stay the same but throwing in a i7/high end i5 and getting more heat/less battery but better performance.

The ATI 5xxx graphics smoke the floor with any nVidia equivalents, and from what I know, they use less energy. The only thing nVidia has going for it is the switchable stuff, but I think most consumers would rather have a better graphics card on all the time with the energy/output inbetween that of an Intel HD graphics and nVidia 310M. I don't want to speak for all consumers though so correct me if I'm wrong.

gwsat
Mar 30, 2010, 02:46 PM
If Apple simply changed the SSD model to 4GB RAM, I'd place my order today.
If Apple's refreshed MBA turns out to have 4Gb of hardwired RAM instead of the current MBA's 2Gb, I don't know whether I would buy one or not. I have to be able to run Windows 7 in a virtual machine on any Mac I buy but I don't know whether even 4Gb of RAM in an MBA would let me do so comfortably. I have 6Gb of RAM in my 2.4Ghz MBP and I wouldn't want to have to get by on less.

gglockner
Mar 30, 2010, 03:13 PM
If Apple's refreshed MBA turns out to have 4Gb of hardwired RAM instead of the current MBA's 2Gb, I don't know whether I would buy one or not. I have to be able to run Windows 7 in a virtual machine on any Mac I buy but I don't know whether even 4Gb of RAM in an MBA would let me do so comfortably. I have 6Gb of RAM in my 2.4Ghz MBP and I wouldn't want to have to get by on less.

Sounds like you'd be better served by a MacBook Pro. In my case, I would rather leave Windows 7 running on another computer (specifically, virtualized on my Mac Pro) and connect via Windows Remote Desktop on the laptop.

Scottsdale
Mar 30, 2010, 03:46 PM
The thing is Apple and Intel have always had a very close relationship and the current MacBook Air processors were customized specifically for the Air... this time around they don't have that relationship and none of the current processors fit the bill.

I can see where you are coming from in regards to the processors though. I can see it going either way - decreasing the performance in favor of battery life and lowering the prices, or having the price stay the same but throwing in a i7/high end i5 and getting more heat/less battery but better performance.

The ATI 5xxx graphics smoke the floor with any nVidia equivalents, and from what I know, they use less energy. The only thing nVidia has going for it is the switchable stuff, but I think most consumers would rather have a better graphics card on all the time with the energy/output inbetween that of an Intel HD graphics and nVidia 310M. I don't want to speak for all consumers though so correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually, it was the original MBA that had its own "custom" Intel processor. Many other notebooks use SL9x00 CPUs, including Dell's own ultraportable competitor to the MBA, Adamo.

I wouldn't put it past Apple to get a custom CPU, maybe even less the IGP 45nm DIE. Don't count on the relationship to be down, because I believe Nvidia lost its license due to the appearance of Apple selecting it over Intel's own chipsets. Intel wants to be inside of the Mac computers for the money and the branding. Apple buying Nvidia over Intel was the start of the end of Nvidia's license. Intel will definitely bend over backwards to get into every premium or pro Mac, and I don't think it's beyond removing a 45 nm GMA DIE to get it.

Let me clarify, the i5 is NOT a high-end CPU in any way, shape or form. It's nearly $100 less than the current C2D TRUELY high-end SL9600 CPU. If Apple wants to decrease performance, it will obviously use the Core i7-6x0UM an ultra low voltage CPU. Apple would much prefer 4 MB L3 cache and a far superior HD graphics experience. The i5 is where people think a mid-grade computer should be, but Apple has never gone cheap on the MBA... it's done miniaturized but not cheap. In fact, the Core i7-6x0LM CPUs that Intel scheduled to replace the current MBA's C2D SL9x00 Penryn CPUs are about $15 cheaper than the current SL9x00s.

The simple truth is the Core i7 makes far more sense than the Core i5 in ultra low voltage form. Go look, and both CPUs are already available for Apple in Core i7 CPUs. The Core i5 you're hopeful for doesn't even match the current Core i7 CPUs that are ultra low voltage and available right now. This is not to say Apple will not stick with the LOW VOLTAGE CPUs where it's currently positioned in the MBA.

The reason the MBA is pure perfection is the 6 MB L2 cache, and clock speed performance while using low voltage. It gives the MBA a truly better experience than one would expect and similar to the MB. It does that by taking advantage of the cache because it's not as fast as the 35W TDP MB CPUs but uses less power able to cool it down in such a thin case with limited cooling space. It also uses an Nvidia GPU and an SSD to make the MBA literally faster than a MB for those willing to pay for it.

Both Intel and Apple will want the MBA branded as a Core i7 CPU. Most people don't even know the differences and think Core i7 means quad core or something more powerful. The Core i7 brand offers the 640LM and 620LM which are the Intel branded replacements for the current MBA's low voltage SL9x00 series. We have zero reason to believe Apple wouldn't continue on with a low voltage CPU. If Apple went ultra low voltage, it would possibly be to make a dedicated graphics card to work inside of it. However, with hybrid tech that's even less important as the dedicated GPU will only be used as needed.

If Apple wants to go ultra low voltage, the Core i7-640UM and i7-620UM are already available and both offer superior performance, and more importantly more L3 Cache and double the performance from the GPU built in. If Apple doesn't use a secondary discrete card, it would be absolutely STUPID for it to use an i5 CPU. The i5 is going to have 60% of the standard graphics performance of the i7, half the L3 cache of the i7, and ALL AT THE SAME ULTRA LOW VOLTAGE 18W. Why would Apple be that stupid? It just doesn't add up. I believe you're not clarifying where Apple already is with the MBA and where it's definitely going with the MBA.

Again, if Apple didn't have the iPad positioned as the lower cost secondary entertainment/web netbook replacement device, maybe the MBA would take the position of further removing its capabilities to get it into a cheaper price point. Why should Apple lower the price point from where it's already at? Why would it want to sell MBAs for $1300? Why wouldn't it want to keep the prices up and do it by taking advantage of both the branding and performance gains of the Core i7 over the Core i5? We haven't even touched the fact that there are no "LOW VOLTAGE" Core i5 CPUs available... where and why would Apple move away from Low Voltage? How could it do it with a Core i5? It couldn't not now... not until late this year, and not without a massive performance loss in GPU capabilities of the built-in graphics.

I will gladly put $100 on the line that is on a Core i7-6x0LM or i7-6x0UM over any of your Core i5 CPUs, current or future. Apple simply cannot go backwards with the MBA, and that's exactly where it would be going with a Core i5 ultra low voltage... far backwards from the current CPUs. We would all be better off buying a C2D MBA... and Apple would be better off keeping a C2D in the MBA and simply adding 4 GB of RAM to it. I will be done with the MBA if I have to have that worthless Core i5 ultra low voltage CPU in my MBA... on I will be to better things whether it be an "Airized" MBP or something else (like the Vaio Z where I could be very easily - I just need Apple to prove it the wrong choice, but another Tuesday without an update).

I agree the ATI 5XXX will smoke the Nvidia 310m, but this is Apple we're talking about. MBP buyers will be lucky to get the ATI 5450; they all want the 5870 and are saying they will settle for the 5830, but I will laugh my ass off when they get the Nvidia 330 GT or ATI 5450.

In all truth, I don't see Apple using ATI even though they offer faster graphics solutions. Apple is more into energy savings and yet offering the best overall value for complete system performance... The MBA will be lucky to get a 310m. If it were to get a 330 GT, it would probably have to use the ultra low voltage CPUs... but even then I don't know.

With Optimus, Apple gets exactly what it wants. A fair card that can perform in the low to low-mid range areas depending on dedicated card used in which Mac, and yet the energy savings the majority of the time when using the Intel IGP. I guess it's completely possible that ATI allows Apple to introduce a new tech from ATI in the new Mac notebooks. I just don't see Apple using any high end graphics - not even as high end as the 5450. And truthfully, most of us would be much better off with C2D and Nvidia chipsets anyways.

There are different groups getting into gaming on Macs, and that's why Apple should develop another series of notebooks focusing on high-end graphics cards and large displays, and lose the other features focused on other Mac notebooks not necessary to them. There is a whole range of people not being catered to by Apple, and I see it as a missed opportunity whether it's a headless Mac, a netbook, a gaming desktop, or a gaming notebook - they're all missed opportunities that Apple's is not capitalizing on. It makes me wonder if Apple has something up its sleeve and working with Steam to introduce computers more capable... no clues here and not truly speculating, just a thought that probably means nothing.

If I had to bet on the next MBA right now... Core i7-620LM, Intel IGP only, 2 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD for $1599. Core i7-640LM, Nvidia 310m 256 MB dedicated w/Optimus, 4 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, a new display tech - $1999. Both get better speakers, glass trackpads, and USB 3.0. If we get better tech than these, I can see higher prices. I also see BTO options coming back to the MBA. Hopefully a $500 upgrade to 8 GB RAM. Maybe a Core i7 LM over a UM for more money, or a dedicated graphics card versus only Intel's GMA IGP. Maybe other things too, like the HD/IPS display I am expecting.

What I don't fear because it isn't happening... Core i5-xxxUM, 1.06/1.2 GHz, Intel or other graphics, and any other add you want.

OMG, what a waste of my time... nobody will even read this lengthy post!

Jayomat
Mar 30, 2010, 05:59 PM
I did ;) thx

I just hope for a better cooling solution so that I could use an AIR in the bed;), just like I do with my mb, without any underlay or spacer or whatever...:cool:

codehead
Mar 30, 2010, 07:59 PM
OMG, what a waste of my time... nobody will even read this lengthy post!

I always read your posts and feel more informed because of them. Thank you.

codehead
Mar 30, 2010, 08:02 PM
I just hope for a better cooling solution so that I could use an AIR in the bed;), just like I do with my mb, without any underlay or spacer or whatever...:cool:

That and more than 2GB of RAM and I'd be set. ;)

gwsat
Mar 30, 2010, 08:48 PM
Sounds like you'd be better served by a MacBook Pro. In my case, I would rather leave Windows 7 running on another computer (specifically, virtualized on my Mac Pro) and connect via Windows Remote Desktop on the laptop.
I considered a 13 inch MBP as well as the MBA, when I first decided that I wanted a small laptop. I eliminated the current 13 inch MBP from my consideration because if weighs 4.5 pounds.

I used Windows Remote Desktop fairly frequently at one time but thought that it was too slow and unstable for regular use. That was over a wireless network but a wireless network is what I have, so wireless desktop is not for me.

I still hold out hope that the refreshed MBA will have enough RAM to allow me to comfortably run Windows in a virtual machine. Only time will tell and, based on current indications, it might be a long time. Anyway, an MBA is still my first choice as long as my requirements for it are fulfilled.

calderone
Mar 30, 2010, 11:09 PM
OMG, what a waste of my time... nobody will even read this lengthy post!

Yeah, what a waste of time. I did not read that steaming pile.

Seriously, how can you spend so much time talking about nothing?

Jobsian
Mar 31, 2010, 01:48 PM
OMG, what a waste of my time... nobody will even read this lengthy post!

I read the entire post then this exasperated quote literally had me in stitches lmao!! As always, your insights are much appreciated Scotty

I agree the masses of predictions of Core i5s and i3s are a little peculiar, but I guess it's just a presumption people make that the lower the number the less TDP and most suited to the MBA. I'll bet my left femur that we'll see Core i7 if there is to be an MBA/D. And I just can't fathom the possibility of IGP-only, I seriously doubt it (and hope!). With every week that passes, USB 3.0 becomes more realistic (I seriously hope this is included).

Another week goes by and still no update = more excited :D I'm actively hoping there's no MBA now - surely by the time WWDC come, we'll get most of the specs we want! Roll on June I say :)

Scottsdale
Mar 31, 2010, 02:19 PM
I read the entire post then this exasperated quote literally had me in stitches lmao!! As always, your insights are much appreciated Scotty

I agree the masses of predictions of Core i5s and i3s are a little peculiar, but I guess it's just a presumption people make that the lower the number the less TDP and most suited to the MBA. I'll bet my left femur that we'll see Core i7 if there is to be an MBA/D. And I just can't fathom the possibility of IGP-only, I seriously doubt it (and hope!). With every week that passes, USB 3.0 becomes more realistic (I seriously hope this is included).

Another week goes by and still no update = more excited :D I'm actively hoping there's no MBA now - surely by the time WWDC come, we'll get most of the specs we want! Roll on June I say :)

Thanks a lot for all who support my addiction... I was also not thinking we were getting an update this week but still frustrated when it didn't happen and made another note of how many months have gone by (we're two days away from ten months since the last ever so slight CPU bump to the MBA). I originally read a rumor that WWDC is going to be late June this year. I don't know if it's correct, but it might be which also might change the focus of WWDC to just the new iPhone, and iPad/iPhone development.

Also we have several rumors and quotes from Jobs saying the new Macs will take the Mac to the "next level." Given all of the rumors for MBPs and other misc. Mac rumors, I would bet we get an Apple media event in April or early May. This would allow Apple to introduce a completely new line of Macs using Arrandale CPUs, alternative graphics systems, USB 3.0 across its Mac line, and probably iLife. I see a new MBP, MBA, Mac mini, MB, Mac Pro, and maybe even a bump to the low-end iMac. All will feature the new CPUs and graphics. The big question is what does Apple do with the graphics. For me, the graphics are the biggest concern. I also think we will get two new variants to the Apple Cinema Displays with both an LED version of 27" and a 32" too.

I still say that the MBA is going to get a new display of some sort with either this or the next update. I don't know if it will be IPS/HD, 3D, OLED or what, but I think this is the next logical place to focus the experience of the Mac on and the MBA should be the starting point. Been saying it since last Fall, and I am still saying it. I just don't know when...

gwsat
Mar 31, 2010, 03:20 PM
Thanks a lot for all who support my addiction.The big question is what does Apple do with the graphics. For me, the graphics are the biggest concern.
I, too, suspect that Apple's long delay in refreshing its laptops has been caused by problems with the graphics. If so, that's very similar to the CPU problem that led Apple to stick with its Powerbook G4 line for long. That happened because Apple thought it could modify the G5 CPU to work in laptops. They were wrong. The G5 always ran too hot and required too much power for laptop use. Once Apple's new lineup is released, I hope we find out what caused Apple's long delay in the first place. Man alive, those guys are more secretive than the Kremlin!

AlmostThere
Mar 31, 2010, 03:31 PM
I always read your posts and feel more informed because of them. Thank you.

Me too.

Glad there's something long enough to fill the gap between Apple updates :)

roxygal9
Mar 31, 2010, 09:41 PM
I, too, suspect that Apple's long delay in refreshing its laptops has been caused by problems with the graphics. If so, that's very similar to the CPU problem that led Apple to stick with its Powerbook G4 line for long. That happened because Apple thought it could modify the G5 CPU to work in laptops. They were wrong. The G5 always ran too hot and required too much power for laptop use. Once Apple's new lineup is released, I hope we find out what caused Apple's long delay in the first place. Man alive, those guys are more secretive than the Kremlin!

Hey gwsat u live in OKC to, cool! Do you plan on visiting the Apple store at the mall on Saturday?

Lately I have been going between the air and the 13 MBP but I guess I will have to see what the updates bring...

I went out of town last week, and was sitting at a bar in the airport, and started talking to this lady, and she found out I knew about computers and such and asked me should I buy a mac or a pc? Well I have never owned a Mac but I told her if you can wait get a Mac. Then this dude chimed in and said I work for apple and you definitely should get a Mac. Well, of course I asked him if he knew about an update, and he had no idea, then we talked about the air and pro a little. He mentioned that he thought the air would probably get an i3 which of course would be absurd when it comes to power consumption.

I know these guys dont know anymore than we do, but as I was leaving to catch my flight, he said don't worry updates are coming soon. This was last Tuesday, but hey who knows maybe we can have some glimmer of hope about a refresh this month.:rolleyes:

I will wait for apple to update even though the z is attractive, because Macs do intrigue me, and I love the idea of running 2 OSes.

gwsat
Mar 31, 2010, 10:03 PM
Hey gwsat u live in OKC to, cool! Do you plan on visiting the Apple store at the mall on Saturday?

Lately I have been going between the air and the 13 MBP but I guess I will have to see what the updates bring...
I will stay far, far away from the Apple Store this Saturday. Penn Square Mall is always a zoo on Saturdays and the Apple Store is even wilder. There is no telling what it will be like in there this Saturday but I think it won't be pretty. :)

I've been shopping for a 13 inch laptop for about a month but have concluded that nothing in Apple's current laptop lineup will work for me, for reasons I have previously posted here. If Apple would refresh the MBA so that it had slots for memory modules I would be the first in line to buy one. Unfortunately, there is no telling when Apple will release its updated laptops. I am beginning to wonder if it will happen before summer.

roxygal9
Apr 1, 2010, 08:02 AM
I will stay far, far away from the Apple Store this Saturday. Penn Square Mall is always a zoo on Saturdays and the Apple Store is even wilder. There is no telling what it will be like in there this Saturday but I think it won't be pretty. :)

I am beginning to wonder if it will happen before summer.

Yes Penn Square mall is a mess, and I can just imagine the fiasco it will be to get into the Apple store. I am teetering between getting an ipad, but it was an easy decision at this point as I didnt want to deal with the crowd there. Maybe in a month?

Yea I need one for law school, but unless the MBA brings some RAM and a decent GPU to the table, I will have to pass on the pricetag at this point.

I hope it isnt until summer, I wanted to get some time to get accustomed to osx before school starts as well as load Win7 etc.

Damn u Apple! :mad: :apple:

Jobsian
Apr 11, 2010, 09:04 AM
Guys, would like your inputs in this thread on the MBP forum: "New Macs for 2010 are going to take Apple to the next level"-MBA/13"MBP Mega-Hybrid? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=894341)

With the 13" MBP and MBA rumored NOT to be listed among the imminent Macbook updates, I'm guessing Scotts your prediction last year might become true!

glitch44
Apr 11, 2010, 10:57 AM
Guys, would like your inputs in this thread on the MBP forum: "New Macs for 2010 are going to take Apple to the next level"-MBA/13"MBP Mega-Hybrid? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=894341)

With the 13" MBP and MBA rumored NOT to be listed among the imminent Macbook updates, I'm guessing Scotts your prediction last year might become true!

...or the MBA was just EOLed.