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Alvi
Mar 7, 2010, 05:51 PM
Hi guys, i was planning to get a MacBook Pro but at the store where they sell it they sell me the Pro they sell me the air for the same price, i feel that the Air is better value because it's thinner and it has almost the same features.
I want to use the computer around the house, take it to work, starbucks, a daily usage computer, like something between my desktop and iPhone, and that's NOT an iPad in my case, i would use it to download music and sync my iPhone on iTunes, apereture, even light video editing probably just twice a year or so, one part i care about is Second Life (3D Virtual World)... is the performance the same even with a lower clock processor? since 3D apps use more GPU than CPU.

Would 4 tabs in safari + iTunes music + secondlife + 1 Work app go fine all together? should i get the pro?



jmoore5196
Mar 7, 2010, 06:58 PM
I have a 2.53GHz 13" MBP and a 1.6GHz "Revision B" MacBook Air. The difference between the two machines is like night and day.

I have given up trying to run fairly intensive graphics apps (InDesign, PhotoShop) on the MBA. The iWork suite is fine, but anything more sophisticated bogs down the processor.

I love traveling with the Air, but I find myself growing increasingly frustrated because the machine is just downright sluggish. If I had to choose between the MBA and the MBP - that is, if I could only have one - I'd pick the Pro hands down.

Scottsdale
Mar 7, 2010, 07:39 PM
I have to disagree with the other replier. I believe the MBA is plenty capable if it's the correct model. The 1.86/2.13 GHz Penryn CPU is plenty of power for Photoshop and Adobe CS products especially with Nvidia 9400m GPU. However, the MBA does have problems with HD playback within a browser plug-in. I believe the 1.6 GHz is just below the threshold required to get optimal performance from Flash and HD plug-ins. I have noticed the CPU taking huge hits when running Flash or other plug-ins... when I run an HD Video in a playback application (not within the browser) the MBA succeeds perfectly every time.

I would say the biggest performance boost in the MBA comes with an Nvidia GPU or an SSD over the 4200rpm HDD. Both are critical to performance and speed depending on the use required.


Would 4 tabs in safari + iTunes music + secondlife + 1 Work app go fine all together? should i get the pro?

Get a rev B/C MBA (v 2,1) with a 1.86/2.13 GHz Penryn C2D CPU and an SSD, and you will be perfectly fine. Normal browser tabs can hit 30+ before you will notice problems (I tested it with simple Flash ads and once I hit 30 pages I had degradation in performance).


Finally I would say wait to see if the MBA gets updated unless you're getting a heck of a discount on the MBA. Right now, it's $1349 or $1549 from Apple.com via refurbished in the USA. I would say any price below that would be acceptable if you have to buy now. The reason I would really try to wait is the last MBA update brought a $700 discount along with a spec bump. If the MBA drops another several hundred dollars, and gets an SSD in the low-end version, it might really benefit those who wait. On the other hand, it could be next week or late June before there's an update. Nobody really knows what's going on and there are no recent rumors that make bold claims about an update real soon.

Good luck!

ayeying
Mar 7, 2010, 08:03 PM
The GPU in the MacBook Air vs the 13" MacBook Pro is about 75% (If system is running at 100% efficiently, but it does downclock so the performance is more like 60%) of its intended performance. Just FYI.

ImpostorOak
Mar 7, 2010, 11:23 PM
I'd never understand why anybody would ever buy a MacBook Air unless they literally just browse the Internet and listen to music. If you're going to do any video editing on it, get the MBP.

And there's really no comparison with the features. I have no idea where you're getting that idea.

The MBA is just a giant ripoff, in my opinion. You're paying top dollar for a rather slow computer that has the one advantage of being really thin. It's not like a 13" MBP is a back breaker or anything. Maybe if the MacBook Air were cheaper than the regular MacBook. But with the intro price being the same as the upper level 13" MBP, it's just highway robbery.

Alvi
Mar 7, 2010, 11:31 PM
I'd never understand why anybody would ever buy a MacBook Air unless they literally just browse the Internet and listen to music. If you're going to do any video editing on it, get the MBP.

And there's really no comparison with the features. I have no idea where you're getting that idea.

The MBA is just a giant ripoff, in my opinion. You're paying top dollar for a rather slow computer that has the one advantage of being really thin. It's not like a 13" MBP is a back breaker or anything. Maybe if the MacBook Air were cheaper than the regular MacBook. But with the intro price being the same as the upper level 13" MBP, it's just highway robbery.
then you basically say a 300 dollar cell phone is a ripoff because you can get 25" monitor with that money, sometime you just want somethig light to do basic stuff, of course they force you to pay a premium for that, I just want one because it costs me as much as the MBP

bossxii
Mar 7, 2010, 11:41 PM
Hi guys, i was planning to get a MacBook Pro but at the store where they sell it they sell me the Pro they sell me the air for the same price, i feel that the Air is better value because it's thinner and it has almost the same features.
I want to use the computer around the house, take it to work, starbucks, a daily usage computer, like something between my desktop and iPhone, and that's NOT an iPad in my case, i would use it to download music and sync my iPhone on iTunes, apereture, even light video editing probably just twice a year or so, one part i care about is Second Life (3D Virtual World)... is the performance the same even with a lower clock processor? since 3D apps use more GPU than CPU.

Would 4 tabs in safari + iTunes music + secondlife + 1 Work app go fine all together? should i get the pro?

I'd take the MBP and be on your way. Unless you travel extensively and need a lightweight machine you will be much happier with the MBP. The MBA is great at what it is meant for, but it's not the all things to all people. I've tried out the each Revision hoping they would improve it's performance, heat and build issues but they remain. Heat will be an issue, don't care what anyone says, they are lying to themselves if they think you can run HD video or 3D games, even such as Second Life without the fans on HIGH. The MBP's glass trackpad is imo much better to use than the MBA's old school pad + buttons. The MBA hinge, after 90 to 120 days of daily use will become loose. Again, the MBA fans will disagree and say how great it is but they are just justifying their own purchase. The reality is you get a better battery, more connections, better hinge, better trackpad and a DVD drive + the option to stick 4 gigs of ram, the ability to upgrade the HDD to 500+ gigs or an SSD.

I love the "idea" of the MBA, and in fact have purchased and returned or sold 3 different models hoping to find one that would work as an all around laptop. The MBA is simply not their for someone that wants a good multimedia device that handles basic games, movies, sites like Hulu, Netflix etc...

I hope Apple continues to develop the platform and makes some changes to make the hinge less of an issue, the trackpad a glass one and figure out the thermal issues that continue to limit it's uses.

However, if you do choose to go with an MBA, at least do yourself a favor and buy one with the SSD option. It makes a big difference in everyday performance, where the CPU speed maybe lacking.

ImpostorOak
Mar 8, 2010, 12:19 AM
then you basically say a 300 dollar cell phone is a ripoff because you can get 25" monitor with that money, sometime you just want somethig light to do basic stuff, of course they force you to pay a premium for that, I just want one because it costs me as much as the MBP

No, it's not like saying that at all because that's a ridiculous comparison. A cell phone and a monitor don't have nearly the same function and all cell phones are made to fit in your pocket while monitors are meant to sit on desks. Don't be coy here.

And it's not like you're really saving a ton of room with the MBA. It's not a netbook. It's still a 13" laptop like the MBP. The only difference is the weight (and the complete lack of... basically anything at all on the MBA) and thickness. Both are under an inch thick at their thickest points, so that's still not a big deal. And the MBP is only 1.5 pounds heavier. Like I said before, definitely not a back breaker. Like a poster in another topic pointed out, Apple's price was originally somewhat justified because of R&D costs like the unibody design, etc. Now that's standard in every Mac laptop. And the MBA doesn't even have the same battery life as the MacBook Pro. I mean, are you kidding me? It's designed to be ultra portable and it has inferior battery life with inferior hardware? No, the MacBook Air is just a ripoff at this point. It's not significantly smaller or lighter and it has virtually no features and a slow processor (and half the RAM for the same price).

marksandvig
Mar 8, 2010, 12:57 AM
No, it's not like saying that at all because that's a ridiculous comparison. A cell phone and a monitor don't have nearly the same function and all cell phones are made to fit in your pocket while monitors are meant to sit on desks. Don't be coy here.

And it's not like you're really saving a ton of room with the MBA. It's not a netbook. It's still a 13" laptop like the MBP. The only difference is the weight (and the complete lack of... basically anything at all on the MBA) and thickness. Both are under an inch thick at their thickest points, so that's still not a big deal. And the MBP is only 1.5 pounds heavier. Like I said before, definitely not a back breaker. Like a poster in another topic pointed out, Apple's price was originally somewhat justified because of R&D costs like the unibody design, etc. Now that's standard in every Mac laptop. And the MBA doesn't even have the same battery life as the MacBook Pro. I mean, are you kidding me? It's designed to be ultra portable and it has inferior battery life with inferior hardware? No, the MacBook Air is just a ripoff at this point. It's not significantly smaller or lighter and it has virtually no features and a slow processor (and half the RAM for the same price).

Agreed. It's really not worth it unless you already own a mbp and have money to burn.

scottness
Mar 8, 2010, 01:02 AM
My MBA is perfect for traveling, though I wouldn't recommend it for your primary Mac. I view it as a "supplemental" machine that I travel with. I do any heavy lifting at home on a desktop. If it's going to be your main Mac, get the MB Pro.

Alvi
Mar 8, 2010, 01:40 AM
My MBA is perfect for traveling, though I wouldn't recommend it for your primary Mac. I view it as a "supplemental" machine that I travel with. I do any heavy lifting at home on a desktop. If it's going to be your main Mac, get the MB Pro.

It's going to be my main mac, but not my main computer

No, it's not like saying that at all because that's a ridiculous comparison. A cell phone and a monitor don't have nearly the same function and all cell phones are made to fit in your pocket while monitors are meant to sit on desks. Don't be coy here.

And it's not like you're really saving a ton of room with the MBA. It's not a netbook. It's still a 13" laptop like the MBP. The only difference is the weight (and the complete lack of... basically anything at all on the MBA) and thickness. Both are under an inch thick at their thickest points, so that's still not a big deal. And the MBP is only 1.5 pounds heavier. Like I said before, definitely not a back breaker. Like a poster in another topic pointed out, Apple's price was originally somewhat justified because of R&D costs like the unibody design, etc. Now that's standard in every Mac laptop. And the MBA doesn't even have the same battery life as the MacBook Pro. I mean, are you kidding me? It's designed to be ultra portable and it has inferior battery life with inferior hardware? No, the MacBook Air is just a ripoff at this point. It's not significantly smaller or lighter and it has virtually no features and a slow processor (and half the RAM for the same price).

I agree, still i found it more valuable because it's more expansive and it costs the same as the pro

Agreed. It's really not worth it unless you already own a mbp and have money to burn.
nah, they're some people which could need one


after your opinions i think I'll get a MacBook Pro or a MacBook + iPad what do you think is better?

Imperil
Mar 8, 2010, 10:24 AM
I just bought a Macbook Air on the last weekend because I needed a notebook for GDC this week and for future conferences and meetings. For me size and weight were much more important than performance which is why I went with the Air in the end. It's amazing how much of a difference the 1.5lbs makes... if you go to the Apple store and pick up an Air and then an MBP, the MBP feels like a brick! Of course it's not a brick but the weight difference is really awesome for using it primarily at conferences and meetings where I'm moving it around and using it on my lap. Also the SSD MBA seems much cooler than the MBP.

That being said I use a Mac Pro for my main machine which is why I wasn't worried about performance. Although so far the MBA has done quite well building our stuff in XCode and small work (i.e. exporters for me) in Photoshop and Maya.

roxygal9
Mar 8, 2010, 12:14 PM
Imperil, man you are making me want a MBA even more! I just gotta hold out a little longer I guess...

Alvi
Mar 8, 2010, 01:06 PM
I just look at the air in pics and it looks way thinner or at least it makes the MBP look bricky however I don't like that I can't upgrade ram especially because it has just 2GB, maybe It would look like a better offer with 4GB of ram and SSD by default

mcruzader
Mar 8, 2010, 01:57 PM
Just want to put this out there, but my fiancé has a MBA as her ONLY computer and simply loves and its all that she needs, she runs Fusion, stat programs, browses the web and it still keeps up with her, and to top it all off she has the 1.6GHz Nvidia Version NO SSD. Can't wait to put the Runcore SSD in it!

lucifiel
Mar 8, 2010, 02:20 PM
I run an MBA as my only computer.

It does everything I want and this includes gaming in bootcamp.

I'm not sure how intensive second life is, but the other stuff is definitely a breeze for the 2.13 ghz model of MBA.

To those who think "MBA is supplementary" or "MBP and MBA is no comparison", most of you must not have even toyed with the MBA, it's a lot more powerful than at first glance.

At any rate, if you didn't make the request about 2nd life, I'd say definitely go for it, but I'm just not sure what 2nd life is, though I have a feeling it'll likely run quite well, you'd be surprised at what the 2.13 ghz can do.

That said, unless you're dying to have one (which is understandable), or it's super cheap, I wouldn't buy one.

bossxii
Mar 8, 2010, 02:57 PM
I run an MBA as my only computer.

It does everything I want and this includes gaming in bootcamp.

I'm not sure how intensive second life is, but the other stuff is definitely a breeze for the 2.13 ghz model of MBA.

To those who think "MBA is supplementary" or "MBP and MBA is no comparison", most of you must not have even toyed with the MBA, it's a lot more powerful than at first glance.

At any rate, if you didn't make the request about 2nd life, I'd say definitely go for it, but I'm just not sure what 2nd life is, though I have a feeling it'll likely run quite well, you'd be surprised at what the 2.13 ghz can do.

That said, unless you're dying to have one (which is understandable), or it's super cheap, I wouldn't buy one.

For the record I've owned all three rev's and sold or returned each with the Rev B/SSD being my favorite so far. Having used the Rev B for nearly 6 months prior to selling it, I know of it's limitations very well. So answering someone looking for a good all around laptop the comparisons and short comings of the MBA should be pointed out vs the rabid fanboism posts by certain MBA members. ;)

The MBA is not all things to all users. Clearly it has it's weak points such as video, 3D games etc... The comparison from a 13" MBP and the MBA is no comparison. Trying to compare a mainstream (MBP) to a niche ultraportable for everyday use in both business and personal makes the difference rather large.

The hardware alone makes for a long list of "not even close" comparisons.

The hinge, trackpad, available ports, dvd drive, ability to upgrade both ram and even HDD for a fraction of the cost. The MBP's ability to deal with heat vs the MBA becoming a George Forman grill if pushed at all.

The MBA's strongest assest is it's weight. The person that travels will appreciate the MBA for what it is and the sacrifices made to achieve this is the trade off. I can use a netbook for my "only/everyday" computer if I want to but offering it up to someone that is simply "drooling" over the MBA is not friendly or educated advice. The overly biased responses touting the MBA as the best all around laptop Apple makes is setting someone up for disappointment. The MBA has it's place, but acting like it has no limitations or issues is not helping anyone trying to decide.

I love the "idea" of the MBA, and will continue to track it's progress, however it simply still lacks in design and performance what I need as an all around computer.

lucifiel
Mar 8, 2010, 04:38 PM
The hardware alone makes for a long list of "not even close" comparisons.

The hinge, trackpad, available ports, dvd drive, ability to upgrade both ram and even HDD for a fraction of the cost. The MBP's ability to deal with heat vs the MBA becoming a George Forman grill if pushed at all.

The MBA's strongest assest is it's weight. The person that travels will appreciate the MBA for what it is and the sacrifices made to achieve this is the trade off. I can use a netbook for my "only/everyday" computer if I want to but offering it up to someone that is simply "drooling" over the MBA is not friendly or educated advice. The overly biased responses touting the MBA as the best all around laptop Apple makes is setting someone up for disappointment. The MBA has it's place, but acting like it has no limitations or issues is not helping anyone trying to decide.


First, I never insinuated that the MBA as "the best all around laptop", I can think of several laptops that will fit that category much better than the MBA, in fact the MBP would likely do better than the MBA in a great deal many things, but my point remains - to the average user the MBA can satisfy the criteria of "primary mac"

The assertion that the MBA is "simply a supplementary computer" seems somewhat unfair, given that the MBA can be a primary computer of those who do not need all the power to run graphic intensive programs, etc.

You will also note that I did not say to the OP that he should buy the MBA, I remain unsure since I have no idea what Second Life requires, but for reference, I can run 3D games on my MBA.

The ports issue is a real issue and I do acknowledge it is a weakness of the MBA, how much of a weakness depends on the user, I at times get annoyed at having to use a hub, but I deal with it, some users might not want to.

Heat is not an issue for me, yes it gets hot, up to 70+ degrees celsius, but I've never thought to myself "damn man it's getting too hot to use". But that's a personal thing.

Lastly, the RAM limitation pisses me off to, but for my purposes, it suffices. If one was looking to future proof themselves, an MBA is not the answer. But the OP does not make reference to this point.

Again, I do not view the MBP and MBA as "incomparable" simply because to many users, the difference in performance is noticeable, but not crippingly so, and given the trade off with weight, to dismiss the MBA as "just a netbook" etc is misleading.

EDIT:

Oh wait, DVD drive - personally never used one, but anyone shopping for an MBA would be well aware of the fact it doesn't have a DVD drive, thus it seems superfluous to say "oh dude the MBA doesn't have a DVD drive".

colourfastt
Mar 8, 2010, 06:27 PM
I have both the MBA and the MBP (15" tho) and the MBA has almost totally replaced the MBP for my daily use. Also the MBA runs cooler than the MBP.

silverblack
Mar 8, 2010, 09:11 PM
The main feature of MBA for traveling is its light weight, but it is also the main limitation - short battery life.

I used to travel with MBA for conferences, and yes, the different between 3 and 4.5 pounds is definitely noticeable. While I enjoyed carrying it all day; I felt that I was somehow avoiding to actually use it to conserve battery juice.

It was not always easy to find outlets to keep the MBA charged. I mean, how often you have an outlet on domestic economy seat; how many times you found all the seats next to an outlets are occupied at the airport terminal; and what are the odds you are sitting next to an outlet at Starbucks or other restaurants. Next thing I knew, my trip had turned into a constant quest of outlet searches.

The new MBPs have an advertised 7 hour battery, although it is probably 5-6 hours in real life usage. I currently opt for the older MBs with a swappable battery. With a spare battery, I definitely find myself using the MB more and worrying less about battery life. However, be prepared to carry a 5 lb MB + an additional battery.

Alvi
Mar 9, 2010, 01:15 AM
It was not always easy to find outlets to keep the MBA charged. I mean, how often you have an outlet on domestic economy seat; how many times you found all the seats next to an outlets are occupied at the airport terminal; and what are the odds you are sitting next to an outlet at Starbucks or other restaurants. Next thing I knew, my trip had turned into a constant quest of outlet searches.

Nice point, so the MacBook Pro is a better choice for me, i travel much but not a lot, probably do 4 round-trips which mean like 10-14 flights, i wouldn't buy a computer just because of work since if i get fired one day, i would still have my computer, also battery is important since i do 10 hours flights mostly, a 5-7 hour battery is ok since almost 3 hours of the flight mean takeoff, and I'm in the same situation as you are, i don't find power outlets on the plane in economy class, and getting Business class is rare, however if the MacBook Air claims to last 5 hours it lasts 3-4 after some use

nicorojas
Mar 9, 2010, 09:28 AM
I have the 2.13 Rev. C with the SSD as my main computer at work. I'm a lawyer, so I don't use graph intense software, but browser, Office, Skype, iTunes, iCal, Things and Preview are usually open all times, with no major drop in performance. Parallels, on other hand, can make the computer feel slow.

The main issue is about temperature. If the MBA gets hot, drops the speed of the processor a lot. I used to have a Rev. A and CoolBook solved most of its problems, but I haven't tried in this one.

Regarding battery, if you drop the brightness to half and you will easily get 3:30 - 4 hours. Turn off wifi and bluetooth and you'll get another half hour. I have got 5 hours a couple of times. However, usually I don't need to work on battery for extended periods, so I'm not quite sure if 5 hours are something you should expect.

ctrack52
Mar 9, 2010, 10:37 PM
I like my MBA (rev2 SSD).. Does most things well but is rather sluggish any time I start working with images. I don't think it's great with images, but straight video has worked okay especially with converted DVDs using Handbrake. If you need power more than 50% of your time then maybe the MBA is not for you, otherwise the MBA is slick, light, and very portable.

Not much help are we?

scottness
Mar 10, 2010, 05:33 AM
To those who think "MBA is supplementary" or "MBP and MBA is no comparison", most of you must not have even toyed with the MBA, it's a lot more powerful than at first glance.



I said mine is supplementary, and I own one. I've done a lot more than "toyed" with it.

For some, it might be the perfect machine. For others, like me, it's perfect for travel, not for the real work back home.

bk0
Mar 10, 2010, 09:21 AM
If it has the SSD, go for the Air. Otherwise the MBP.

polotska
Mar 10, 2010, 03:10 PM
MBP 13" all the way.

baryon
Mar 11, 2010, 12:30 PM
Well, if the specs of the Air and the Pro are similar, it should be the same performance, however, note that the MacBook Air is still the old design: It doesn't have the cool glass trackpad yet, and I'm sure Apple wants to add that pretty soon. The MacBook Pro is a very actual design, while the Air hasn't been redesigned (I mean, the way it looks on the outside) since its launch.

I wouldn't care for the fact that the Air is thinner, the Pro is already super thin. However, if this factor is very important for you, that makes sense. I would get the pro, because of the glass screen and the glass trackpad (the Air has a plastic trackpad and plastic screen).

bcrguy
Mar 11, 2010, 12:47 PM
Hi guys, i was planning to get a MacBook Pro but at the store where they sell it they sell me the Pro they sell me the air for the same price, i feel that the Air is better value because it's thinner and it has almost the same features.
I want to use the computer around the house, take it to work, starbucks, a daily usage computer, like something between my desktop and iPhone, and that's NOT an iPad in my case, i would use it to download music and sync my iPhone on iTunes, apereture, even light video editing probably just twice a year or so, one part i care about is Second Life (3D Virtual World)... is the performance the same even with a lower clock processor? since 3D apps use more GPU than CPU.

Would 4 tabs in safari + iTunes music + secondlife + 1 Work app go fine all together? should i get the pro?

get the pro because the air does not have a superdrive built in and if im not mistaken its another 100 bucks.. (canada) and the pro you can upgrade ram as well.. the air is stuck at 2, the pro comes stock at 4 expandable up to 8..

pro all the way..

Adidas Addict
Mar 12, 2010, 04:17 AM
I think from the current models the 13" MBP is the clever choice. I have a feeling the new rev Air will be using one of intels ULV chips which will make performance even slower, BUT it should also make it more affordable and cooler. Paired with an SSD and decent graphics a ULV would make sense and battery life would be greatly improved. The Air badly needs the glass trackpad too, makes a huge difference in the user experience.

When the Air was released it was a standout WOW product, but nowadays lots of manufacturers are making thin and light models for only a few hundred £££'s which is making the Air look more and more overpriced. I have always had a soft spot for the Air, but I feel its lost a lot of its attraction and wow factor lately.

southnc
Mar 12, 2010, 11:06 AM
Yeah, this is a tough choice.

Let's say you are considering a Macbook Air VS Macbook 13" Pro with SSD.

The Pro weigh's just 1.5 lbs more than the Air; maybe even less difference if your using the SSD on the Pro.

The Pro is a lot more powerful, less heat, SD slot, DVD burner, longer battery, and cheaper in SSD form.

My plan is to have the iMac as the heavy-hitter at home and need a supplementary portable for email, browsing (FULL), Skype, video, and other light tasks. The iPad is a joke, imo (HP Slate should kill it). I wish they had made the tablet out of the Air instead. Regardless, my preference is for an SSD Air or SSD 13" Macbook Pro.

Interestingly, both the Pro and Air are due for updates. I guess it's better to wait, but with the new 13" Pros so light, the Air is definitely getting squeezed.

Should be interesting to see what Apple does - hopefully, soon.

ayeying
Mar 12, 2010, 12:55 PM
The Pro weigh's just 1.5 lbs more than the Air; maybe even less difference if your using the SSD on the Pro.

The difference is in GRAMS... not even noticeable by humans.

Paix247
Jul 21, 2010, 04:04 PM
I have a new iMac and a MB Air. I love the combo. Something to consider is the MBAir power adapter is also smaller than the 13" MBP.

manhattanboy
Jul 21, 2010, 09:56 PM
I have a 2.53GHz 13" MBP and a 1.6GHz "Revision B" MacBook Air. The difference between the two machines is like night and day.

I have given up trying to run fairly intensive graphics apps (InDesign, PhotoShop) on the MBA. The iWork suite is fine, but anything more sophisticated bogs down the processor.

I love traveling with the Air, but I find myself growing increasingly frustrated because the machine is just downright sluggish. If I had to choose between the MBA and the MBP - that is, if I could only have one - I'd pick the Pro hands down.

Well, that's funny because I'm running CS5 fine nearly everyday....
But I do have the SSD version...

Anyways, to the OP, if you do a search you will see that this topic has been beaten to death!
http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz302/jimsteele1020/Beating_a_dead_horse.jpg

DannyNguyener
Jul 22, 2010, 12:00 AM
Lets just say this, I have a 2.13Ghz 128SSD MacBook Air.

It was my first Mac/Apple product I ever purchased, and it is my primary computer to this day.

-I use Aperture Daily to edit and manage my enormous 60+GB library of ONLY photos shot in RAR format.
-I open up more than 5 tabs at times when browsing
-I play Age of Empires 3, Starcraft, Warcraft, and any other RTS game you can think of.
-I also played the Sims on the MacBook Air and it works fine.
-I convert movies and videos to put on my iPad daily as well.


I can understand why MBP users enjoy bashing on the earlier generation MacBook Air, but the current revisions run fine and I think the MacBook Air should continue improving in the future upcoming releases.

Shodan
Jul 23, 2010, 10:37 AM
The 1.86/2.13 GHz Penryn CPU is plenty of power for Photoshop and Adobe CS

For someone who uses Photoshop for light image work, such as small form BMP's or PNG's.

Introduce RAW Bridge files and the Air just dies due to the heat.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my Rev.B 1.6GHz Air, but any real heavy work just didn't work.

If the rumours of a 11.6" version are true, I will get one to run alongside my Pro as a Travel book - not sold on the iPad till further Application development.

tflournoy95
Jul 23, 2010, 11:54 AM
then you basically say a 300 dollar cell phone is a ripoff because you can get 25" monitor with that money, sometime you just want somethig light to do basic stuff, of course they force you to pay a premium for that, I just want one because it costs me as much as the MBP

yea but the mbp has basically twice the performance, its about half as think as mast pc laptops, it has a better screen, and feels a lot sturdier. theres just no comparison.

Gaelic2
Jul 23, 2010, 12:52 PM
My MBA is perfect for traveling, though I wouldn't recommend it for your primary Mac. I view it as a "supplemental" machine that I travel with. I do any heavy lifting at home on a desktop. If it's going to be your main Mac, get the MB Pro.

I totally agree! I use my MBA for travel only. I use it for checking my stocks, banking, expenses and off load pics from my camera. I check e-mail and the net but all my heavy lifting is for my iMac desktop. I like the size and weight as opposed to a MacBook which I had in the past. If I wanted only one computer, it would be a MacBook pro 15" which could handle it all.

halledise
Jul 23, 2010, 03:45 PM
I run an MBA as my only computer.

It does everything I want and this includes gaming in bootcamp.

I'm not sure how intensive second life is, but the other stuff is definitely a breeze for the 2.13 ghz model of MBA.

To those who think "MBA is supplementary" or "MBP and MBA is no comparison", most of you must not have even toyed with the MBA, it's a lot more powerful than at first glance.

At any rate, if you didn't make the request about 2nd life, I'd say definitely go for it, but I'm just not sure what 2nd life is, though I have a feeling it'll likely run quite well, you'd be surprised at what the 2.13 ghz can do.


+1 :D

Stuart in Oz
Jul 24, 2010, 11:14 PM
I'd never understand why anybody would ever buy a MacBook Air unless they literally just browse the Internet and listen to music.

That's my mother right there.

thinkdesign
Jul 25, 2010, 07:38 AM
Thanks for your post. The specifics connect more with my wait-or-buy quandry, than most. "Buy now" for me would have to mean the 2.13, though I can (barely) afford to wait 'till October (but not without cost to my career-change, to writing).

Hearing that the 2.13 can handle Aperture is interesting. I think I read that Aperture has been revised or soon will be... would the new version's demands be any more? If I get the 2.13 it would be the newest one with the Toshiba SSD (silently sourcing/spec-bumped last May) said in a recent MR to be much faster, though I don't know what practical difference that change, alone, makes.

I have been so well educated by this blog on the Air's pros & cons, that I now know about 6 reasons to wait, and an equal number of reasons not to.

I need it to be a sole computer... for daily mobile use... and am physically unable to tolerate the 13" MB Pro's weight (arthritis, back trouble). Economically... if a new Air by Oct. solves the Air's current tight-shoe problems, I don't care how high the price of the best version goes... but also I'm old enough etc. that long-term costs govern; i.e. if I buy the 2.13 tomorrow, I need to use it for many years.

So my situation's particulars lead me want to stretch the Air to be a bit more than it is. I just got blessedly free of daily outlet-hunting for my phone (insurance gave me a phone upgrade to a touch pro 2)... but it seems that my probably-best option, buy a 2.13 Air right now, will put me BACK into the outlet-hunting business (and the hinge-babying biz). But several recent posts emphasizing what the 2.13 CAN do, have helped me to make my decision. Next Tuesday night!

Clatchy
Jul 25, 2010, 07:41 AM
I got a MBP 15" (late 09 2.4 GHz i5) over an Air, simpley because of the specs and that it would run better.

gman901
Jul 25, 2010, 03:15 PM
I had a 2.13 Air, and would love to get it again if they knock another $600 off it(since it's pretty much outdated). I'll wait and see if a new one comes out. In the meantime, my iPad pretty much handles all the exact same stuff my Air did plus more since it is so light and portable. I use my Alienware M11x for all the heavy lifting. Both of these together only weigh just under 6 pounds and fit in the new Incase sleeve they sell at the Apple store. If the next Air can dual boot to Windows 7, play games at medium details and come under 3 lbs, I may have to think about my current setup.

thinkdesign
Jul 25, 2010, 05:27 PM
The Apple online refurb store, that is.

When I consider the 2.13 Air vs. a 13" Macbook Pro... the latter for me would be the $1,199. one plus the optional 256 SSD.

None of these new Macbook pros have shown up in the refurb store, yet. How long should that take?

......... It just occured to me that I don't know if that optional 256 gb SSD offered for the 13" MBP is of a slower or faster type? Would it hold true for the 13" MBP (as in the Air, per the recent revelation) that Samsung ones are slower, and Toshiba-sourced 256 gb SSD's are faster?

(If I call Applestore 800 number, would they be able to read the part # of the MBP's SSD to me?)

A refurb discount on that version of a current model MBP would offset some of the high ... is it $750. or $800. ... that they charge for that SSD option.

Spacekatgal
Jul 25, 2010, 09:04 PM
The Apple online refurb store, that is.

When I consider the 2.13 Air vs. a 13" Macbook Pro... the latter for me would be the $1,199. one plus the optional 256 SSD.

None of these new Macbook pros have shown up in the refurb store, yet. How long should that take?

......... It just occured to me that I don't know if that optional 256 gb SSD offered for the 13" MBP is of a slower or faster type? Would it hold true for the 13" MBP (as in the Air, per the recent revelation) that Samsung ones are slower, and Toshiba-sourced 256 gb SSD's are faster?

(If I call Applestore 800 number, would they be able to read the part # of the MBP's SSD to me?)

A refurb discount on that version of a current model MBP would offset some of the high ... is it $750. or $800. ... that they charge for that SSD option.

Just a thought, but in the 13 inch, why on earth would one go with the Apple SSD? If you really educate yourself on the state of SSDs in 2010, you'll see there are only two choices. I'd VERY highly recommend reading the most recent Anandtech roundup to understand why the Intel X25 is such a great product.

Granted, wear leveling is a problem in any SSD because you can only write to each MLC cell 10,000 times. And the lack of TRIM in OSX means that performance will still degrade over time - though less now than it used to. Even despite this, the X-25 is a great buy. I got mine for about $200.

Bri

thinkdesign
Jul 25, 2010, 10:17 PM
Because I know nothing about computers. Even the 75,000 simple rules one must know to use Windows exceeds the amount of memory still unused between my ears :o

I need a computer that will serve my perhaps not too typical needs, which I've summarised before ... so I won't repeat. I don't want to have it be - me serving the computer's needs, i.e. always needing to learn more things.

So, (1.) lack of detailed knowledge, and (2.)* fear of voiding extended warranty. I also need to buy the Air from Apple, in order to be able to buy the 1:1 help service.

2* but I just read an hour ago somewhere, that not all other-sourced SSD installations void the warranty.

So, among Apple-approved vendor-installers (and I'd rather pay one co. for both functions)... are there any would put in the Toshiba 256gb SSD? So I could safely buy the non-ssd Air (or 13" MBP) and then have it upgraded... and NOT have to take the SSD back out if I ever had to have the computer serviced by Apple?

I need maximum reliability, and if I get into grad school any down-time for computer headaches could actually jeopardise my ability to compete for the 2nd year of scholarships. I must minimize the risk of downtime from any/all causes. I am terrified of potential computer snags which I don't even know how to articulate (hence, fleeing PC's), and even more - of having 2 companies -- Apple and some SSD vendor/installer -- potentially playing ping pong over their divided responsibility for solving any problems. So, avoiding that ping pong, and avoiding downtime, is worth any initial price-premium to me.

So within those needs..... is there an apple-approved perfectly safe way to upgrade an Air to 256gb SSD? Or to save money upgrading a 13" MBP to 256/512 on the cheap?

Spacekatgal
Jul 25, 2010, 10:34 PM
Very long story.

You're in school, competing for scholarships - and have arthritis and can't carry anything but the Air? Okay. This story is getting a little complicated for me, but I'll keep it simple.

My understanding is you can upgrade the Ram and the HD on your Macbook without messing up the warranty. It's not like it's hard to do. You need a T6 screwdriver and a small phillips head. It takes about 10 minutes. And if you did have a problem, you could just put the old one in. Not a big deal, to quote SJ.

Those SSDs be Apple's official choice, but the independent science that measures these things has no proof that it's a better. Quite the opposite, in fact. They are really overpriced, in my opinion.

If you're in school, it's not like if your computer breaks you can't get by using the lab for a day or two. Be prepared to fight people using Facebook, though.

thinkdesign
Jul 25, 2010, 11:50 PM
... but perhaps our situations have more differences than is easy to imagine.

I won't be opening any computers, or self-installing, then uninstalling a SSD if I need Apple service. And there is no "lab" whose computers I can borrow if my laptop has downtime.

I'm not in school yet... I have a deadline of January to write some new things for an application for a grad program, which I can only afford if I also win lots of scholarships. Once in school (a writing program) I must produce a piece of finished writing 7 days a week, and on some days hand in that plus a bigger assignment. There's a thesis in both long-form plus a slide-lecture version. Competitveness to get year #2's scholarships means getting stuff published while in the first year, too.

Since I'd be a commuting student 4 days a week, and bouncing around to various non-school libraries and bookstores on Fri.-Sat.-Sun... this literally means carrying the laptop around 6 or 7 days a week. (With a big cheap monitor on my desk in school, and another one on my desk at home.) The program has a part-time IT advisor, but supplies no hardware. Ever.

If I have any downtime or worse, disputes about which company has to fix anything, then I'll fall behind competitively, and then won't be able to win the set of big scholarships and grants essential to study there for the 2nd year.

The work pace is -- run, run, run! Using the computer for writing and research - all day, every day.

I plan to use the computer for 5-6 years, to the end of the 2nd battery. If I overpay by $500. or even twice that amount for big enough and durable enough (SSD) memory... what's that compared with (if this is the case) increasing the odds of downtime or repair disputes...... which could lose me over $20k in grants and turn the whole grad school undertaking into a financial trainwreck?

So, nobody's going to let me use their computer if mine breaks. My laptop must work reliably -- first for a year of preparatory work, and then if I win a big enough grant package to get into the school -- starting 9/2011 I'll need the computer to work every single day for the next 21 months, without fail.

If Apple's SSD's are now the fast kind, then the only attraction of other sources is -- having 256gb on an Air ....... or if the Air's skimpiness and update-stalling forces me to go with the 13" MBP + wear a backpack every day, the attraction would be avoiding Apple's price-gouging on 256gb... or maybe even being able to afford 512?

Spacekatgal
Jul 26, 2010, 12:15 AM
... but perhaps our situations have more differences than is easy to imagine.

I won't be opening any computers, or self-installing, then uninstalling a SSD if I need Apple service. And there is no "lab" whose computers I can borrow if my laptop has downtime.

I'm not in school yet... I have a deadline of January to write some new things for an application for a grad program, which I can only afford if I also win lots of scholarships. Once in school (a writing program) I must produce a piece of finished writing 7 days a week, and on some days hand in that plus a bigger assignment. There's a thesis in both long-form plus a slide-lecture version. Competitveness to get year #2's scholarships means getting stuff published while in the first year, too.

Since I'd be a commuting student 4 days a week, and bouncing around to various non-school libraries and bookstores on Fri.-Sat.-Sun... this literally means carrying the laptop around 6 or 7 days a week. (With a big cheap monitor on my desk in school, and another one on my desk at home.) The program has a part-time IT advisor, but supplies no hardware. Ever.

If I have any downtime or worse, disputes about which company has to fix anything, then I'll fall behind competitively, and then won't be able to win the set of big scholarships and grants essential to study there for the 2nd year.

The work pace is -- run, run, run! Using the computer for writing and research - all day, every day.

I plan to use the computer for 5-6 years, to the end of the 2nd battery. If I overpay by $500. or even twice that amount for big enough and durable enough (SSD) memory... what's that compared with (if this is the case) increasing the odds of downtime or repair disputes...... which could lose me over $20k in grants and turn the whole grad school undertaking into a financial trainwreck?

So, nobody's going to let me use their computer if mine breaks. My laptop must work reliably -- first for a year of preparatory work, and then if I win a big enough grant package to get into the school -- starting 9/2011 I'll need the computer to work every single day for the next 21 months, without fail.

If Apple's SSD's are now the fast kind, then the only attraction of other sources is -- having 256gb on an Air ....... or if the Air's skimpiness and update-stalling forces me to go with the 13" MBP + wear a backpack every day, the attraction would be avoiding Apple's price-gouging on 256gb... or maybe even being able to afford 512?

Sounds like you have your mind made up. That's cool. But don't be under the impression that a MLC hard drive will last 5 or 6 years if you're writing to it heavily. One of the big problems with the Apple Ssd is uneven wear leveling.

I get the appeal of not being responsible for a broken drive, though. And I also get the commute. I take my motorcycle to class, so weight is a huge concern.

thinkdesign
Jul 26, 2010, 07:06 AM
Is there any memory option that can realistically last for -- as long as a first battery and the replacment battery?

I was able to get a few minutes with the program's IT advisor. She said -1-everyone there has Macs, -2- nobody has an Air, but -3- a new Air will suffice (this, before the faster Toshiba SSD arrived) and -4- for sure make it the biggest-SSD version. And -5- the school & publishers accept nothing but Word; so get Office 4 Mac, no need for full Windows. (If iWork's so close to a refresh I may wait for that.)

Since I'm reading of at least misc. little things being better on the 2.13 Air, I've dropped consideration of the $1349 refurb one.

I've read about "writing and rewriting" to an SSD. I don't know if I'll do much deleting & writing over... at least not consciously. What goes into my archive stays there... though if I go w/ the 2.13, to live with that 128gb SSD capacity I may have some older archival text + pix material that exists only in the mirrored g-tech/hitachi? backup unit seen @ B&H Photo, not in the notebook. (Reading about "mirroring" in backups, it seemed essential. True?)

I need whatever amount of storage it takes for scanning my existing books & many article clippings ... plus new material... in my field I tend to need a few pages of each of the the many new books being published; buying so many books is impossible $ and spacewise. I've been using my phone's sharp-enough camera for book/mag pages that I may need to quote or use as research leads, later. Esp. for that daily essay requirement! Apple salespeople say that if I tag all that stuff enough, it's searchable, with no outside software.

Thank you for bearing with all this... but where you could perhaps advise me is, the last thing in my previous post. Now that the Air HAS the faster type Toshiba SSD (and I searched last nite: apparently the current BTO MBPs have it too), is there an Apple-Certified warranty-preserving SSD vendor-installer who can boost an Air to 256gb , or boost a 13" MBP to 256/beyond at a big savings over Apple's prices?

And then to be safe, I don't get a replacement battery, but get a new laptop every time the battery's finished? Or does the mirrored backup mean I CAN push my luck (and value economics) with using that 2nd battery as long as it lasts?

Thanks for your advice :o

thinkdesign
Jul 26, 2010, 07:47 AM
Is there any memory option that can realistically last for -- as long as a first battery and the replacment battery?

I was able to get a few minutes with the program's IT advisor. She said -1-everyone there has Macs, -2- nobody has an Air, but -3- a new Air will suffice (this, before the faster Toshiba SSD arrived) and -4- for sure make it the biggest-SSD version. And -5- the school & publishers accept nothing but Word; so get Office 4 Mac, no need for full Windows. (If iWork's so close to a refresh I may wait for that.)

Since I'm reading of at least misc. little things being better on the 2.13 Air, I've dropped consideration of the $1349 refurb one.

I've read about "writing and rewriting" to an SSD. I don't know if I'll do much deleting & writing over... at least not consciously. What goes into my archive stays there... though if I go w/ the 2.13, to live with that 128gb SSD capacity I may have some older archival text + pix material that exists only in the mirrored g-tech/hitachi? backup unit seen @ B&H Photo, not in the notebook. (Reading about "mirroring" in backups, it seemed essential. True?)

I need whatever amount of storage it takes for scanning my existing books & many article clippings ... plus new material... in my field I tend to need a few pages of each of the the many new books being published; buying so many books is impossible $ and spacewise. I've been using my phone's sharp-enough camera for book/mag pages that I may need to quote or use as research leads, later. Esp. for that daily essay requirement! Apple salespeople say that if I tag all that stuff enough, it's searchable, with no outside software.

Thank you for bearing with all this... but where you could perhaps advise me is, the last thing in my previous post. Now that the Air HAS the faster type Toshiba SSD (and I searched last nite: apparently the current BTO MBPs have it too), is there an Apple-Certified warranty-preserving SSD vendor-installer who can boost an Air to 256gb , or boost a 13" MBP to 256/beyond at a big savings over Apple's prices?

And then to be safe, I don't get a replacement battery, but get a new laptop every time the battery's finished? Or does the mirrored backup mean I CAN push my luck (and value economics) with using that 2nd battery as long as it lasts?

Thanks for your advice :o

Spacekatgal
Jul 26, 2010, 08:20 AM
Is there any memory option that can realistically last for -- as long as a first battery and the replacment battery?

I was able to get a few minutes with the program's IT advisor. She said -1-everyone there has Macs, -2- nobody has an Air, but -3- a new Air will suffice (this, before the faster Toshiba SSD arrived) and -4- for sure make it the biggest-SSD version. And -5- the school & publishers accept nothing but Word; so get Office 4 Mac, no need for full Windows. (If iWork's so close to a refresh I may wait for that.)

Since I'm reading of at least misc. little things being better on the 2.13 Air, I've dropped consideration of the $1349 refurb one.

I've read about "writing and rewriting" to an SSD. I don't know if I'll do much deleting & writing over... at least not consciously. What goes into my archive stays there... though if I go w/ the 2.13, to live with that 128gb SSD capacity I may have some older archival text + pix material that exists only in the mirrored g-tech/hitachi? backup unit seen @ B&H Photo, not in the notebook. (Reading about "mirroring" in backups, it seemed essential. True?)

I need whatever amount of storage it takes for scanning my existing books & many article clippings ... plus new material... in my field I tend to need a few pages of each of the the many new books being published; buying so many books is impossible $ and spacewise. I've been using my phone's sharp-enough camera for book/mag pages that I may need to quote or use as research leads, later. Esp. for that daily essay requirement! Apple salespeople say that if I tag all that stuff enough, it's searchable, with no outside software.

Thank you for bearing with all this... but where you could perhaps advise me is, the last thing in my previous post. Now that the Air HAS the faster type Toshiba SSD (and I searched last nite: apparently the current BTO MBPs have it too), is there an Apple-Certified warranty-preserving SSD vendor-installer who can boost an Air to 256gb , or boost a 13" MBP to 256/beyond at a big savings over Apple's prices?

And then to be safe, I don't get a replacement battery, but get a new laptop every time the battery's finished? Or does the mirrored backup mean I CAN push my luck (and value economics) with using that 2nd battery as long as it lasts?

Thanks for your advice :o

Sweetie, this is my honest opinion. You're seriously overthinking it. Your computer will break or not break. Worry about other things, and keep it factory. As some point over grad school, you'll be able to pick up a second Macbook on the cheap for backup.

MLC is the cheaper class of SSDs. SLCs are faster and can be written to more, but MLCs are much cheaper. All the Apple HDDs are MLC, as I understand it.

It's been my experience that Apple certified repair centers can only put the same BTO parts in your machine that Apple would put there. You will pay a lot of money for them.

thinkdesign
Jul 26, 2010, 10:23 AM
Yeah, so 100% from Apple, all under warranty, is for me.

So what do you think of that mirrored backup thing? I read a scary article pointing out that everything has finite life, even backup tech.

So unless I replace the backup before the day it fails... mirroring is what saves the day. Esp. if I don't have 2 computers backing each other up... and my sole computer's at risk for bumps and even theft if it's being carried around constantly.

My preferred leaning / intuition on backup is similar to my thought on laptop selection in one way: A higher price up front for a good one can be the best value, long term, if it's amortised over a longish span of years. As someone with limited time, resources and aptitude for relearning new gadgets... the idea of a laptop and backup that I keep for as many years as possible, could incidentally mean fewer demands for me to re-learn new computer details. So I could focus more on my work.

But most backups I see are not mirrored. If mirroring's so essential, why isn't it a common feature? This does not compute! I saw the little I think it was G-Tech(hitachi) mirrored one. For under $500. what's the best brand/model for this? Best in terms of reliability and easy operation. :o

Spacekatgal
Jul 26, 2010, 10:44 AM
Yeah, so 100% from Apple, all under warranty, is for me.

So what do you think of that mirrored backup thing? I read a scary article pointing out that everything has finite life, even backup tech.

So unless I replace the backup before the day it fails... mirroring is what saves the day. Esp. if I don't have 2 computers backing each other up... and my sole computer's at risk for bumps and even theft if it's being carried around constantly.

My preferred leaning / intuition on backup is similar to my thought on laptop selection in one way: A higher price up front for a good one can be the best value, long term, if it's amortised over a longish span of years. As someone with limited time, resources and aptitude for relearning new gadgets... the idea of a laptop and backup that I keep for as many years as possible, could incidentally mean fewer demands for me to re-learn new computer details. So I could focus more on my work.

But most backups I see are not mirrored. If mirroring's so essential, why isn't it a common feature? This does not compute! I saw the little I think it was G-Tech(hitachi) mirrored one. For under $500. what's the best brand/model for this? Best in terms of reliability and easy operation. :o

Of course backup tech has a limited life. Furthermore, a mirrored solution isn't even a complete one. What if your house burned down or was robbed? Off-site backup is a must. My prefered solution is to have a Time Capsule for local backup. I also have a Drobo that we keep at my husband's office. That's in a Raid 1 array, meaning mirrored.

thinkdesign
Jul 26, 2010, 01:54 PM
The days of backing up with floppies in a little safe... are already so old that some readers of this are now thinking "Huh?" :o

The last piece of my memory palace is -- what to use when travelling away from home. I imaging a USB key memory... I haven't calculated size or seen a comparative article on them lately... maybe the LaCie one that looks like a key on a keychain? Priorities being ease of use, reliable/tuff/waterproof.

In one travel day I can write dozens of pages, take 200 10mp pictures, scan a few clippings, have a few emails per day needing saving, hear a radio interview and want to grab the mp3 version quick before the public radio station site takes it down... and save the some of my new web surfing discoveries. How many GB of data a month of all that could add up to, I can't guess. Care to hazard a guess as to what size USB key I need? Best brand/model?

And if the travel includes a lecturing gig, I have in mind having my slide lecture on one of those very tiniest USB drives. Yay, no more Carousel tray! (Dating myself, again.)