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leomac08
Mar 12, 2010, 02:23 PM
The O.C is planning a lawsuit against Toyota for the accelerator problems with many of the cars. I am quite concerned because I drive a 2007 Toyota Matrix and 2004 Toyota Highlander and just recently a man's Toyota Prius in San Diego, CA experienced sudden acceleration and it wasn't on the Toyota Recall List.:eek:

This is the first lawsuit other than NTSA that is planning to sue Toyota.

Orange County prosecutors have filed a lawsuit against Toyota because of continuing problems with its vehicles.

The district attorney's office accuses the automaker of knowingly selling hundreds of thousands of vehicles with acceleration defects. The office says it has the right to bring consumer protective action on behalf of Orange County residents.

Toyota spokesman Mike Michels says he has no comment because the company hasn't been served with the lawsuit.

Toyota has recalled more than 6 million in the United States because of acceleration problems in multiple models and braking issues in the Prius.

Regulators have linked 52 deaths to crashes allegedly caused by accelerator problems.

At least 89 class-action lawsuits have been filed against the Japanese auto giant, which could cost them $3 billion or more.

http://cbs2.com/local/Toyota.Orange.County.2.1556956.html

quagmire
Mar 12, 2010, 06:25 PM
They deserve what ever they get due to them trying to hide this defect(and still are by not recalling all effected vehicles).

madoka
Mar 13, 2010, 06:07 PM
just recently a man's Toyota Prius in San Diego, CA experienced sudden acceleration and it wasn't on the Toyota Recall List.

IMHO, guy is a liar. His background: Bankrupt real estate salesman. Owes $700,000 in debt and $70,000 on credit cards. Is 5 months behind on Prius car payments. Has filed false charges previously.

The incident: REFUSED to shift into neutral even though instructed to several times. Drove 90+ MPH for over 20 minutes through traffic? :rolleyes: Still somehow managed to talk on the phone with 911 during that time, drop his phone twice, and tried to lift up the accelator with his hands? :rolleyes: Go into your parked car and see if you can reach the accelerator without taking your eyes off the windshield. Now imagine trying to do that while driving 90+ MPH through traffic. And oh yeah, his model Prius happens to have a brake override feature. :rolleyes: I guess he didn't research his hoax enough.

Edmunds calls it BS:

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2010/03/was-this-prius-really-out-of-control.html

Forbes calls it a hoax:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/12/toyota-autos-hoax-media-opinions-contributors-michael-fumento.html

His former business partner calls him a scammer:

http://jalopnik.com/5492199/exclusive-ex+business-partner-claims-runaway-prius-driver-a-scammer

leomac08
Mar 13, 2010, 06:55 PM
They deserve what ever they get due to them trying to hide this defect(and still are by not recalling all effected vehicles).

Agreed. Toyota needs to step up and say the truth. 52 people have been rumored to have died to this reason.

IMHO, guy is a liar. His background: Bankrupt real estate salesman. Owes $700,000 in debt and $70,000 on credit cards. Is 5 months behind on Prius car payments. Has filed false charges previously.

The incident: REFUSED to shift into neutral even though instructed to several times. Drove 90+ MPH for over 20 minutes through traffic? :rolleyes: Still somehow managed to talk on the phone with 911 during that time, drop his phone twice, and tried to lift up the accelator with his hands? :rolleyes: Go into your parked car and see if you can reach the accelerator without taking your eyes off the windshield. Now imagine trying to do that while driving 90+ MPH through traffic. And oh yeah, his model Prius happens to have a brake override feature. :rolleyes: I guess he didn't research his hoax enough.

Edmunds calls it BS:

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2010/03/was-this-prius-really-out-of-control.html

Forbes calls it a hoax:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/12/toyota-autos-hoax-media-opinions-contributors-michael-fumento.html

His former business partner calls him a scammer:

http://jalopnik.com/5492199/exclusive-ex+business-partner-claims-runaway-prius-driver-a-scammer

WOW! I really didn't see that coming.:eek::eek:

Little has been discussed about the San Diego's man Toyota Acceleration Hoax here in LA.

I can really see people take advantage of this situation.

I just heard in the news about a man who was sentenced to jail for running-over 3 people and killing them. Now people are forgiving the guy for his crime because they think that the 1996 Camry had an acceleration problem defect.:rolleyes: Who knows? Might be true or not?


'Toyota defense' might rescue jailed Minnesota man
LINO LAKES, Minn. (AP) - Ever since his 1996 Toyota Camry shot up an interstate ramp, plowing into the back of an Oldsmobile in a horrific crash that killed three people, Koua Fong Lee insisted he had done everything he could to stop the car.

A jury didn't believe him, and a judge sentenced him to eight years in prison. But now, new revelations of safety problems with Toyotas have Lee pressing to get his case reopened and his freedom restored. Relatives of the victims - who condemned Lee at his sentencing three years ago - now believe he is innocent and are planning to sue Toyota. The prosecutor who sent Lee to prison said he thinks the case merits another look.

"I know 100 percent in my heart that I took my foot off the gas and that I was stepping on the brakes as hard as possible," Lee said in an interview Wednesday at the state prison in Lino Lakes. "When the brakes were looked at and we were told that nothing was wrong with the brakes, I was shocked."

Lee's accident is among a growing number of cases, some long resolved, that are getting new attention since Toyota admitted its problems with sudden acceleration were more extensive than originally believed. Numerous lawsuits involving Toyota accidents have been filed over the recent revelations, and attorneys expect the numbers will climb.

Lee's Camry wasn't among those subject to Toyota's recent safety recalls, but Toyota did recall some 1996 Camrys for defective cruise controls that could cause sudden acceleration.

Lee's current attorney, Brent Schafer, said several '96 Camry owners whose cars were not in the recall have filed sudden-acceleration complaints with federal regulators.

Was this one of those many TSBs that get slipped in if you bring your Toyota in for service? How far back will Toyota have to go to get a clean slate? http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1fa877/1720

SpookTheHamster
Mar 14, 2010, 05:52 AM
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/12/runaway-toyotas-what-about-driver-error/

R.Perez
Mar 14, 2010, 06:00 AM
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/12/runaway-toyotas-what-about-driver-error/

I am not sure this driver error. That would be quite a mess if we found out it was though.

Denarius
Mar 14, 2010, 06:02 AM
They deserve what ever they get due to them trying to hide this defect(and still are by not recalling all effected vehicles).

It's cheap populist politics at the end of the day. They wouldn't dare touch it with an American manufacturer.

quagmire
Mar 14, 2010, 09:33 AM
It's cheap populist politics at the end of the day. They wouldn't dare touch it with an American manufacturer.

Oh please. Bush back in 2006 saying the Big 3 didn't make vehicles the public wanted and said he wouldn't help them( though he eventually did back in 2008, but according to Cheney I believe he did it so it would be one less thing he would be responsible for).

The Big 3 have been under the scrutiny of our government plenty of times. Most recent is back in 2008 when Congress grilled them when the CEO's went to ask for a loan. Even when our government took a 60% ownership of GM, they didn't hesitate to criticize its mismanagement. They stated GM's handling of its finances were the worst they have ever seen.

Denarius
Mar 14, 2010, 09:45 AM
Oh please. Bush back in 2006 saying the Big 3 didn't make vehicles the public wanted and said he wouldn't help them( though he eventually did back in 2008, but according to Cheney I believe he did it so it would be one less thing he would be responsible for).

The Big 3 have been under the scrutiny of our government plenty of times. Most recent is back in 2008 when Congress grilled them when the CEO's went to ask for a loan. Even when our government took a 60% ownership of GM, they didn't hesitate to criticize its mismanagement. They stated GM's handling of its finances were the worst they have ever seen.

Scrutiny is not as serious as an actual prosecution though, which is on the cards here. Why is a state prosecution appropriate in this case? Aren't class actions the usual procedure in this case? I'm asking sincerely, by the way, it's a subject that has often confused me.

skunk
Mar 14, 2010, 09:49 AM
This whole thing is complete bollox. Nothing but a bunch of incompetent and/or half asleep drivers stepping on the wrong pedal. "The harder I pressed on the brake, the faster it went"? That's because you were pressing on the accelerator, you twat. I've seen it happen a couple of times myself. Toyota will be ruined by this, for no good reason at all.

quagmire
Mar 14, 2010, 09:58 AM
Scrutiny is not as serious as an actual prosecution though, which is on the cards here. Why is a state prosecution appropriate in this case? Aren't class actions the usual procedure in this case? I'm asking sincerely, by the way, it's a subject that has often confused me.

Because Toyota has potentially( with more evidence saying they did) hid this defect from the government( which they are legally obligated to).

skunk
Mar 14, 2010, 10:00 AM
Because Toyota has potentially( with more evidence saying they did) hid this defect from the government( which they are legally obligated to).What evidence?

Denarius
Mar 14, 2010, 10:01 AM
Because Toyota has potentially( with more evidence saying they did) hid this defect from the government( which they are legally obligated to).

When you say potentially, do you mean they're launching the case without having evidence that Toyota attempted to conceal the alleged failures?

quagmire
Mar 14, 2010, 10:04 AM
What evidence?

An ex-Toyota lawyer having 6000 documents that he stole from Toyota stating they destroyed evidence of known defects and an internal memo of how they saved $100 million by delaying recalls and avoiding investigations.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/26/report-toyota-whistleblower-documents-trouble-house-panel/

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/22/report-toyota-bragged-about-saving-100m-with-limited-recall/

skunk
Mar 14, 2010, 10:07 AM
An ex-Toyota lawyer having 6000 documents that he stole from Toyota stating they destroyed evidence of known defects and an internal memo of how they saved $110 million by delaying recalls and avoiding investigations.It is hardly credible that Toyota would have 6,000 incriminating documents lying around to be stolen. Link?

quagmire
Mar 14, 2010, 10:09 AM
It is hardly credible that Toyota would have 6,000 incriminating documents lying around to be stolen. Link?

Added links to above post.

Denarius
Mar 14, 2010, 10:12 AM
An ex-Toyota lawyer having 6000 documents that he stole from Toyota stating they destroyed evidence of known defects and an internal memo of how they saved $110 million by delaying recalls and avoiding investigations.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/26/report-toyota-whistleblower-documents-trouble-house-panel/

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/22/report-toyota-bragged-about-saving-100m-with-limited-recall/

He's going to have fun defending the integrity of his evidence in court.

skunk
Mar 14, 2010, 10:26 AM
Added links to above post.Thanks. On the face of it, that does look extremely serious for Toyota, an astounding case of hubris. I still suspect the throttle/brake problems are probably more to do with driver error than anything else.

yg17
Mar 14, 2010, 10:48 AM
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/12/runaway-toyotas-what-about-driver-error/

Last week I got a call from an elderly gentleman who said he has Type II diabetes, which has left him with virtually no feeling in his feet and he often can't tell which pedal he's pushing on. That makes me wonder if any of these Toyota drivers have Type II diabetes.

Why the hell does that guy still have a license?

Jason Beck
Mar 14, 2010, 11:03 AM
Car won't stop....

TURN CAR OFF?

/facepalm.


I don't care if your on the highway, turn it off, hit your emergency lights
and pull over. To the left side if you had to.

JNB
Mar 14, 2010, 11:10 AM
Car won't stop....

TURN CAR OFF?

/facepalm.


I don't care if your on the highway, turn it off, hit your emergency lights
and pull over. To the left side if you had to.

That's the problem with any vehicle with "push-button" start; there's an interlock that prevents shutoff if the car's in gear and/or motion. It's Neutral or nothing in those. It's not a Toyota issue, it affects every make that uses the stupid thing. Even if it has a fob to be inserted first, removal of the fob does nothing.

Disc Golfer
Mar 14, 2010, 01:07 PM
Toyota will be ruined by this, for no good reason at all.
The reason is that American drivers are undereducated when it comes to the operation and indeed purpose of their vehicle. The government licenses as many people as possible without verifying that those people will be competent in operating a piece of heavy machinery in close proximity to other people in order to funnel as much money as possible out of the hands of private citizens and into big government and big business. All the while excusing the fact that their cash cow is also by far the largest cause of accidental deaths per year simply in the name of convenience and laziness, ignoring the problem entirely except to dump blame every so often on a single entity so as to excuse the entire system of their greed and manipulation. Therefore, if you think that our society being based on automobile transportation is a positive thing, there would have been a good reason for Toyota's ruin.

quagmire
Mar 14, 2010, 01:20 PM
I am the first person to say Americans are idiots when it comes to driving, but it doesn't mean this defect doesn't exist.

Anyway, for some laughs.


THE CONTACT OWNS A 2007 PONTIAC SOLSTICE. WHILE DRIVING 40 MPH WITH A BOAT IN TOW, THE VEHICLE BEGAN TO SHAKE, THE A-FRAME FAILED, AND THE MAIN FRAME COLLAPSED. THE CONTACT LOST CONTROL AND THE BOAT DETACHED FROM THE VEHICLE. THE VEHICLE CAME TO A STOP WHEN IT CRASHED INTO A BRIDGE.

I LEASED A LEXUS 2005 RX 330 ON NOVEMBER 30, 2004. SINCE I HAVE HAD THE CAR THE CAR HAS BEEN VANDALIZED TWO TIMES ONCE ON DECEMBER. 12 AND AGAIN ON JANUARY. 22. EACH TIME THERE HAS BEEN IN EXCESS OF 5,000 WORTH OF DAMAGE. EACH TIME IT IS THEFT INVOLVING OF XENON HEADLIGHTS. THIS IS A OBVIOUS MANUFACTURES DEFECT AND THE CAR SHOULD BE RECALLED. I URGE THIS DONE!!!

THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE VEHICLE'S RPMS RADICALLY INCREASED AND A LOUD REVVING NOISE WAS HEARD. THE FAILURE IS MORE NOTICEABLE AFTER ACCELERATING FROM AN IDLE POSITION.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2010/02/the-complaints-nhtsa-doesnt-want-you-to-see.html

Consultant
Mar 15, 2010, 07:46 AM
The Prius story is fishy.

Congressional memo: Testing didn't duplicate sticky gas pedal on man's Prius
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/14/california.runaway.prius/index.html?hpt=T1

Chip NoVaMac
Mar 15, 2010, 10:40 AM
IMHO, guy is a liar. His background: Bankrupt real estate salesman. Owes $700,000 in debt and $70,000 on credit cards. Is 5 months behind on Prius car payments. Has filed false charges previously.

The incident: REFUSED to shift into neutral even though instructed to several times. Drove 90+ MPH for over 20 minutes through traffic? :rolleyes: Still somehow managed to talk on the phone with 911 during that time, drop his phone twice, and tried to lift up the accelator with his hands? :rolleyes: Go into your parked car and see if you can reach the accelerator without taking your eyes off the windshield. Now imagine trying to do that while driving 90+ MPH through traffic. And oh yeah, his model Prius happens to have a brake override feature. :rolleyes: I guess he didn't research his hoax enough.

Edmunds calls it BS:

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2010/03/was-this-prius-really-out-of-control.html

Forbes calls it a hoax:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/12/toyota-autos-hoax-media-opinions-contributors-michael-fumento.html

His former business partner calls him a scammer:

http://jalopnik.com/5492199/exclusive-ex+business-partner-claims-runaway-prius-driver-a-scammer

Amen to that! Think there will lots of worms out there that will try to profit off any problems that Toyota has going...

What has happened to Driver Ed over the years? I was trained in what to do when the breaks fail or the engine races...

Years ago I was going down a steep hill when my breaks gave out.. sounds like a setup - but it was not....

For this guy.. two or three calls to 911... and he was "afraid" of putting the car in neutral? Give me a break!

Reminds me of a lawsuit that Toyota lost here in Virginia. The guy lost his legs and won over the fact that seat-belts don't work if the seat is fully reclined! Go figure!

snberk103
Mar 15, 2010, 03:15 PM
It's cheap populist politics at the end of the day. They wouldn't dare touch it with an American manufacturer.

That's because now the US government is now a major shareholder. Going after Toyota could be interpreted as a way to help their investments.

Oh please. Bush back in 2006 saying the Big 3 didn't make vehicles the public wanted and said he wouldn't help them( though he eventually did back in 2008, but according to Cheney I believe he did it so it would be one less thing he would be responsible for).

The Big 3 have been under the scrutiny of our government plenty of times. Most recent is back in 2008 when Congress grilled them when the CEO's went to ask for a loan. Even when our government took a 60% ownership of GM, they didn't hesitate to criticize its mismanagement. They stated GM's handling of its finances were the worst they have ever seen.

Which is why the US government could be accused of now trying to protect its ownership stake.

Just thinking out loud...

dsnort
Mar 15, 2010, 03:26 PM
Even when our government took a 60% ownership of GM, they didn't hesitate to criticize its mismanagement. They stated GM's handling of its finances were the worst they have ever seen.

I had to LOL, the US Government criticizing someone else's money management???!!! Bwahahahahahahaha!

This whole thing is complete bollox. Nothing but a bunch of incompetent and/or half asleep drivers stepping on the wrong pedal. "The harder I pressed on the brake, the faster it went"? That's because you were pressing on the accelerator, you twat. I've seen it happen a couple of times myself. Toyota will be ruined by this, for no good reason at all.

Similar happened to Audi back in the late 70's, maybe early 80's. What was originally called SAD, (Sudden Acceleration Disorder), eventually became known as FFS, (Fat Foot Syndrome). Audi lost millions in sales.

jaw04005
Mar 15, 2010, 04:56 PM
I do think there are/were some defects with Toyota models. However, the vast majority of criticism now is just other people jumping on the bandwagon.

American car makers have been in trouble for the last five or so years, and with that has come some built-up jealousy for Toyota and other Asian car makers.

It’s a sort of become “See Toyota has issues too!”

The press is loving it (it’s the ideal ratings-boosting American hard news story — Priuses accelerating uncontrollably down the free way), our government is using it as an example to justify the American car maker bailouts and the rest of the country loves a little drama that comes from someplace besides our government, Wall Street or corporations.

One thing is for sure, Toyota handled this poorly. From a PR standpoint, they should have been out in front to head this off. The last issue like this I can remember recently was the Firestone tires/Ford explorer debacle.

JNB
Mar 15, 2010, 05:04 PM
The last issue like this I can remember recently was the Firestone tires/Ford explorer debacle.

Which was predominately another episode of blaming someone else for poor driving skills and even worse maintenance on the owners' part.

quagmire
Mar 15, 2010, 05:11 PM
I do think there are/were some defects with Toyota models. However, the vast majority of criticism now is just other people jumping on the bandwagon.

American car makers have been in trouble for the last five or so years, and with that has come some built-up jealousy for Toyota and other Asian car makers.

It’s a sort of become “See Toyota has issues too!”

The press is loving it (it’s the ideal ratings-boosting American hard news story — Priuses accelerating uncontrollably down the free way), our government is using it as an example to justify the American car maker bailouts and the rest of the country loves a little drama that comes from someplace besides our government, Wall Street or corporations.

One thing is for sure, Toyota handled this poorly. From a PR standpoint, they should have been out in front to head this off. The last issue like this I can remember recently was the Firestone tires/Ford explorer debacle.

Congress has no interest in GM. In matter of fact they came to the dealers that were ousted during Chapter 11 aid and passed legislation( which Obama strangely signed) that gave them the option to take GM to arbitration which hurts GM because their dealer network just got a bit more bloated again. Plus, many of the senators dealing with the Toyota investigation once received contributions from Toyota. They also voted against helping GM back in 2008.

It is the executive branch that has the interest in GM since it was the executive branch that owns the 60% share in GM.

Which was predominately another episode of blaming someone else for poor driving skills and even worse maintenance on the owners' part.

And blaming Ford for when it was a defect with Firestone and the tires.

JNB
Mar 15, 2010, 05:22 PM
And blaming Ford for when it was a defect with Firestone and the tires.

Considering that most if not all cases the tires were underinflated, overloaded, and being driven at excessive speeds in summer temperatures on a high-center vehicle, I'm not sure they could really blame the tires, as all the factors exceeded design specs and manufacturer's guidelines plus any margin of safety built in. Tread separation or catastrophic failure after all that is not a matter of if, but when. IIRC there was an issue with the rubber compound or application to the belt that was contributory, but certainly not causal.

I'm pretty sure Ford also redesigned the suspension with the Explorer model change after that; whether it could be considered related or not, I don't know, but stability was addressed. Could've been worse, I suppose, coulda been Bronco II's. :eek:

Oh, well, you can't design to cover stupid, I guess.

jaw04005
Mar 15, 2010, 05:37 PM
Congress has no interest in GM.

First of all, where did I even mention Congress in my post?

I said "government." And guess what? Congress gave the executive branch the power and funds to bail out GM - so yeah, they're interested.

Just like they're interested in holding congressional hearings where they can publicly scold Toyota's CEO yet in reality do nothing but waste a bunch of people's time and money.

quagmire
Mar 15, 2010, 05:44 PM
First of all, where did I even mention Congress in my post?

I said "government." And guess what? Congress gave the executive branch the power and funds to bail out GM - so yeah, they're interested.

Just like they're interested in holding congressional hearings where they can publicly scold Toyota's CEO yet in reality do nothing but waste a bunch of people's time and money.

You said the government has an interest in making GM look good and support the bailouts. I went into specifics because the branch of government that has an interest in GM is not involved in the hearings.

Congress passed TARP to aid the failing financial industry. No where did they give permission to use it to bail out GM and Chrysler. They put in no limitations though on what the President could spend it on. That is why after Congress voted to not give GM and Chrysler a loan, Bush stepped in and gave them a loan using TARP money.