Jetta owners.... anyone?

[cr2sh]

Well, as typical for me before any major purchase I request the assistance and opinions of.. well… pretty much everyone.

I’ve been looking at a jetta gls tdi for sometime now, I want one so badly… I got back from a trip this week and looking at my jeep I’m thoroughly sick of its gas-guzzling ways. Driving it after my rental car, it feels so old and clunky and 17mpg just sucks.

So last night I was on consumereports.com, doing some research on the car and I was very displeased to see the very poor rating they have given the car in reliability.

So I thought I’d just throw it out there, anyone happen to own a newer jetta with a good number of miles on it? Anyone care to weigh in on this discussion? Basically, I’d love to hear someone say that the electrical/qc problems so prevalent in the early years of the mk4 are gone… can anyone help me?

Your consideration of this matter is much anticipated and appreciated.

[rhpenguin]

my 92' Jetta TDI was a beast. just about everything on it died and it cost way too much to fix.

I swear alteast one thing broke on it a month.

[nospleen]

I had a 98 and it was great, but I had terrible luck with the new style. I had a 99 VR6 Jetta and a 2001 GLS 1.8T Golf that were lemon lawed. I loved them, but, I would never buy one again. Maybe I just have bad luck, but after two instances of bad luck, I was out...

[Peyote]

I'm in the exact same boat. Currently driving a Jeep, and looking at buying a GLS TDI (i am looking for one with leather as well.)

There have been a lot of problems with owners of the 1.8t engine and the coil packs, but that problem doesn not effect the TDI engine. My only worries are about the power windows, which seemed to have suffered in QC a few years ago.

Check out www.vwvortex.com, and browse the forums there. There are forums for the TDI engine, as well as the MK4 jetta with a lot of useful info.

[bousozoku]

I'm on my fourth VW, a 1999 Golf. After 66,000+ miles, I can say that everything has been good except for the power window regulators and once they admitted that there was a problem, they found a fix for it.

I would certainly consider another VW, but I'm not sure that I would ignore everything else this time. The Mazda 3 is looking good and Subaru have several strong models and, having driven a rental Ford Focus, I'd even consider one of those.

[RBMaraman]

I was considering a Jetta when I was car shopping a few months ago. After talking to a few people who owned them, and after reading consumer reports and a few other magazines/books, I decided to drop the idea of a Jetta.

I ended up purchasing a used 2001 VW Passat (New style). I absolutely love it! Take a look at a Passat, and you'll find you get a lot more car, for not that much more money.

[blackfox]

Ironically, Jeep is coming out with one of the few new diesel offerings in the US market (Liberty)...I am not sure if that might interest you.

Other than the Volkswagon offerings, there is little to choose from...Mercedes is re-introducing it's diesel E-series with the 2005 model, although that might be too expensive...you can also find a slightly used older E-series (mercedes stopped them in '99) for around 20K, if interested.

As far as Volkswagon goes, I had an old Jetta (80's) and it was the best car I've ever had...although I have heard bad things about VW since 1999/2000 (build-quality etc.)...I have heard more about the Jetta in particular, so you might want to go with the Golf or Beetle instead...

Of course, a Honda Civic (hybrid or not) gets excellent mileage on regular gas. So does the Toyota Echo and to a lesser extent, the Camry.

There is also Canada.

Good luck.

[r6girl]

i know you are looking for info on the newer models, but i thought i'd chime in nonetheless...

i had a '95 jetta glx and loved it at first. within the first week of owning it (i had purchased it new with about 50 miles on the clock) it stalled and then immediately re-started while i was driving on the freeway. i know it sounds odd, but picture driving at a steady freeway speed, foot on the gas, then the tach drops to zero and the dashboard lights go out for a split second, the car lurches a bit, and then you continue on your merry way just as you were a few seconds ago. when i brought it to the dealer later that week, they checked the error codes in the computer and the electrical system and couldn't find anything wrong. this happened periodically (not enough to make it un-driveable or a lemon) for the 5 years i owned the vehicle! several dealerships were unable to figure out the problem (or even believe me, i think). i finally traded it in for my current vehicle (a nissan - and not a lick of trouble with it in the last 4 years). i loved the styling and performance of the jetta, but was very disappointed with the quality (of the car and of the mechanics at the vw dealerships).

marianne

[TurboDerek]

http://tdiclub.com/ is your best bet for information.
I am a VW guy and have experience with and many friends who drive TDi's. (2005 Passat Wagon, 98 Jetta, 2001 Golf). They are good cars for car people. Most problems they have can be fixed innless than an hour. But if you want a gas and go car they are not for you.

[shecky]

i have a 2003 Wolfsburg 1.8t, and while not a TDI, i will say so far the car has been exceptional - i have had it for about 13 months, it has just under 13,000 miles on it and it has been a joy - and i drive that car hard and it loves it and asks for more.

[cr2sh]

I ended up purchasing a used 2001 VW Passat (New style). I absolutely love it! Take a look at a Passat, and you'll find you get a lot more car, for not that much more money.

I went over tonight and looked at some Jettas. I wanted to dicuss my concerns with a saleman and see what he thought. Bascially, I wanted to see if he'd dismiss it as nonsense (or even in the past tense would be acceptable) but he didn't. He broke it down as basically, the check engine light does seem to come on a lot... but never a really serious issue. "Just a lot of stupid stuff" is how he put it. Now, that wasn't exactly the strong endorsement I was looking for... so I started asking more questions.

"How is it possible that consumer reports can rate the Passat as a top choice and yet recommend avoiding the Jetta?" His answer was simply that the Passat is made in Germany... the Jetta else where.... I asked about the Passat TDI and fuel mileage (almost identical to the Jetta TDI) and got a brochure on that Passat.

You hear good and bad things about the Jetta but jeez... even the dealer seemed to conclude it was a possibility. I want a car I can drive for the next 10years, that isn't going to give me any problems and that is fuel efficient as hell. The jetta is a great looking car... I want one... but all these flags scare the hell out of me.

The new Accord is so ugly.. I won't consider it.
I hate the idea of buying a Mazda anything...
Subaru is a possibility... but not a strong one.

Passat is the pack leader for now... keep thinking about it I suppose. other ideas are very welcome...

[keysersoze]

I have a 2001 GLS ~50K. No problems whatsoever (knock on wood). I've replaced the rear brakes once. That and oil changes... very solid car. I would suggest the GLI as the price point is nice and it's got more horses than the standard GL and GLS 2.0 4 cyl. Test drive one! :)

[blackfox]

cr2sh, here is a listing of the most fuel efficient 2004 models (non-hybrid)...see what you like...

Volkswagen Golf TDI — 38/46
Volkswagen Jetta TDI — 38/46
Volkswagen New Beetle TDI — 38/46



Honda Civic — 36/44



Toyota Echo — 35/43



Toyota Corolla — 32/40



Scion xA — 32/38



Scion xB — 31/35



Dodge Neon — 29/36
Pontiac Vibe — 29/36
Toyota Celica — 29/36
Toyota Matrix — 29/36




Mini Cooper — 28/37



Mazda 3 — 28/35
Mitsubishi Lancer — 28/35
Nissan Sentra — 28/35



Chevrolet Cavalier — 26/37
Oldsmobile Alero — 26/37
Pontiac Grand Am — 26/37
Pontiac Sunfire — 26/37


Mini seems good (IMO)...FWIW

[Archaeopteryx]

My g/f for 4 years owned a 99 Jetta till a few months ago. It was awful.. She use to say "I love my car but its a pice of ****" ..

In a nut shell.. Though she took care of it like you cant imagine... The front grill just Fell off when in a car wash.. FOR NO REASON... The cup holder fell off when she put a soda in it once.. the soda went over me.. FOR NO REASON.. The gas gauge read only 3/4th full every time she filled up the gas.. she took it to get checked 3 times .. always they said "nothing is wrong you just didnt fill it up all the way"...

Her check engine light was on SINCE I MET HER.... all her gauges except the speed guage were dead.. and it had crappy air conditioning.. (very important in south texas) ...

Needless to say she didnt buy another volkswagon....

My advice.. Get good warrenty .. or stay away like the plauge!! We honestly for ****s and giggles looked up car reviews online and they all basicly told horror stories about how the car just kept breaking down!

Of course remember this is for the 99 jetta.. and may not be how the current modles will act..

[jimsowden]

A word of advice on this subject from a mechanic. VWs, though they have pretty good engines, are terrible mechanicalls, Things like window mechanisms, gear shifts, all sorts of crap breaks and costs a shietload to fix. Not to mention that major mechical problems aren't not common. (;)) Go with a japanese brand, toyota and honda are the apple of the car world problem wise.

[Abstract]

There isn't a source that says that VW is reliable, so why would you even consider it? Even at MR, you get this many stories about lemons and such. There have been quite a few car threads posted here, and all of them tell of a bad story concerning a particular car model, but not this many stories, and certainly not this many horror stories.

Personally, I wouldn't have even explored the possibility of buying a VW, nor spoken to a dealer, after reading about it in Consumer Reports and the first few posts here at MR. That's enough for the lightbulb in my head to go off.

[Coca-Cola]

My father used Jetta's for his delivery business. He loves them. He also used Ford Escorts which he hated. Very good diesel mileage, very fast.

[bousozoku]

There isn't a source that says that VW is reliable, so why would you even consider it? Even at MR, you get this many stories about lemons and such. There have been quite a few car threads posted here, and all of them tell of a bad story concerning a particular car model, but not this many stories, and certainly not this many horror stories.

Personally, I wouldn't have even explored the possibility of buying a VW, nor spoken to a dealer, after reading about it in Consumer Reports and the first few posts here at MR. That's enough for the lightbulb in my head to go off.

Considering how many cars VW sells, this isn't exactly proof positive that there is a problem. Out of 4 VWs, I've had minimal problems.

While Toyota and Honda have better records, they also sell unispired cars.

[LeeTom]

I happen to have some pretty recent experience with this. My dad bought a 2004 Jetta TDI wagon a couple months back, and I've beend driving it for the past few weeeks to move stuff. It has around 2000 miles on it now (I put about half of those on there), and there have been no problems. It has been a really great car, and I'm really impressed with the console design. The seats aren't absolutely the most comfortable, but then I've been driving long-ish distances.

I told a friend of mine who is a VW mechanic that I was considering buying one, and he said "Definitely get the P***at.". The P***ats are made in Germany and the Jettas are made in Mexico. He knows a lot about VWs (he's won every car show that he's ever submitted a car in, in the daily-driver category) so I definitely trust his judgement, but so far the Jetta has been 100% solid... wonderful, actually.

Lee Tom

[Baron58]

I have a 99.5 GTI VR6. The engine is perfectly reliable. The rest is not.

...


Soon I'll be getting a Mazda RX-8. I've owned 5 European cars, but there's nothing European in the US market BESIDES THE VW that's what I want. If I didn't so specifically want the RX-8, I'd get a Mazda3 5-door hatch. I really should do that, but the RX-8 is like legal heroin - pure agony results if you don't keep dosing up on it. Don't drive an RX-8 if you're looking at other cars, because it'll ruin everything else for you.

My advice - if you want a diesel, get an older Benz. Or wait for the Jeep Liberty CRD. The VW TDI engine is awesome, but not enough to go through the pain of owning the rest of the vehicle it's wrapped in.

[veedubdrew]

I had a 2000 VW GTI. It was a genuine P.O.S. I bought it with 11 miles on the clock, and by the end of the first day the A/C had failed and it was idling at 2500 RPM.

What followed were failed window regulators, failed ECU, failed cruise control, a broken fancy flipping key, countless rattles, etc. The cool blue dash lights went on and off at their own whim. A bunch of plastic stuff fell off because there were never any bolts installed at the factory to hold them in (the bolt holes were there, so...?).

The GTI was totalled at 8800 miles when someone rear-ended me, and i was very glad to be rid of that monstrosity. My car was actually made in Germany as well (Wolfsburg), but most are made in Mexico and Brazil to apparent low standards.

Pay attention to what Consumer Reports and J.D. Power says and stay away from VW!!! They're awful!

FWIW, I've had a Honda Insight and a Toyota Prius since, and they've both been great. Virtually no problems and great performance.

Good luck with whatever you buy.

-Drew

[dotnina]

::snip::
Nissan Sentra — 28/35
::snip::


I have a Nissan Sentra (2003) and I can confirm it actually gets 35 mpg in real use. I put 11 gallons in, ran it down and put another 11 gallons in. Some math later, I found that with ~20% city / ~80% freeway driving (and some air conditioner use), the mpg came out to 35-point-something!

Also it's about $10,000 less than a Jetta.

But I love VWs -- my first car was a VW. I think the new Jettas are quite nice. :)

[blackfox]

Jesus...I was also somewhat thinking of buying a TDI (Golf) in the not-too-distant future...not so sure now.

Good Luck cr2sh...

VW:

Farfromsoothin' ?

[Neserk]

uy a Honda. Sorry, I know you weren't asking for favorite kinds of car but my last when I gave away when I changed coasts and moved to CA. It had almost 200,000 miles/8 years on it and was still running great with only minor repairs. My current Honda has just over 50,000 miles/ 4 years and I've only had to replace tires (my fault, I forget to rotate :o ) and windshield wipers (which is weird because it rarely rains here... maybe it is the sun!)

[pseudobrit]

my 92' Jetta TDI was a beast. just about everything on it died and it cost way too much to fix.

I swear alteast one thing broke on it a month.

There were no TDIs in '92. That was an A2 Jetta; current Jettas are on the A4 platform (no relation to the Audi A4 models, which are actually on the B5 platform. Confused yet?)

The 92 Jetta would have been a TD (turbo diesel), it was an IDI diesel.

The TDI (turbo direct injection) came out here in '98, IIRC and debuted on the A3 Jetta platform.

I don't like Jettas. I had one (a '94 gasser). It had problems. I fixed a lot of things myself and generally took good care of it, but got fed up with its ever-changing surprise problems. It was Mexican-built.

So I bought a Golf TDI. It's made in Brasil. I haven't had any unusual problems and have been able to do most of the maintenence myself.

[edit] let me make my last point a little clearer, since it's in such contrast to the other experiences here:

I am perfectly satisfied with my TDI.
It's been in the shop for warranty work exactly twice in the past two years I've owned it and was out of commission for just one day each time.
I bought two new tires for it last month and have gotten it inspected twice.
I've changed the oil & filter three times myself and the fuel, air and cabin filters once myself.

YMMV

[rdowns]

Well, as typical for me before any major purchase I request the assistance and opinions of.. well… pretty much everyone.

I’ve been looking at a jetta gls tdi for sometime now, I want one so badly… I got back from a trip this week and looking at my jeep I’m thoroughly sick of its gas-guzzling ways. Driving it after my rental car, it feels so old and clunky and 17mpg just sucks.

So last night I was on consumereports.com, doing some research on the car and I was very displeased to see the very poor rating they have given the car in reliability.

So I thought I’d just throw it out there, anyone happen to own a newer jetta with a good number of miles on it? Anyone care to weigh in on this discussion? Basically, I’d love to hear someone say that the electrical/qc problems so prevalent in the early years of the mk4 are gone… can anyone help me?

Your consideration of this matter is much anticipated and appreciated.

I'm the Director of Sales and Marketing for one of the largest national car warranty companies. I regularly review actuarials and claims data on all models to help set rates. VWs average 1.3 more claims per 5 years than all but a handful of other cars. Based on that, STAY AWAY FROM VWs! Most common problems are electronics. I think their electronic systems are engineered in Redmond.

For what it's worth, ask any claims person with at least 5 years experience what to buy and they all say the same thing, buy Japanese.

[ExoticFish]

i'm starting to look at a new car as my '94 Civic is rusting to death. i'd get another Civic because i love it and even though i have 190K miles on it the engine is still going strong... but at only 127HP i want something else. i've always loved the ways Jetta's look so i test drove a GLS VR6 and it was really really nice... but now i'm reading all these negative things about them. i think i'll stay away from the Jetta and have set my sights on a Scion Tc.

[Abstract]

I'm the Director of Sales and Marketing for one of the largest national car warranty companies. I regularly review actuarials and claims data on all models to help set rates. VWs average 1.3 more claims per 5 years than all but a handful of other cars. Based on that, STAY AWAY FROM VWs! Most common problems are electronics. I think their electronic systems are engineered in Redmond.

For what it's worth, ask any claims person with at least 5 years experience what to buy and they all say the same thing, buy Japanese.

Conclusive. Stay away from VW. I hear that most European cars are going down in terms of reliability and such. Its probably because nobody really cares. People buy the car because it's European. That's reason enough, even though it may break down often.

[wPod]

i have a 2000 jetta (with the 2.0 no the TDI) but it runs very well. i have almost 60,000 miles on it now (have had it for a year and put 20xxx on myself) i had the infamous window problem about 2 days after driving it off the lot so they fixed it for free in about 2 hours. i also have the check engine light come on all the time (it seems to happen when i go to or from higher altititudes (i live in tx (600ft) and go to NM mountains (9000ft)) and for some reason every time i make that trip the light comes on. its no trouble they just 'reset' the system (something i am trying to figure out how to do, maybe if i just disconnect the battery that will work) but overall it is a great car. runs well and gets great gas millage up to 34 mpg on the highway and 28-30 in the city (depending if the AC is on or not) i know the TDI will get better millage than that, like close to 50 i think is what VW claims. in the long run i have heard that major repairs are expensive. no questions on that. even for someone like me who will do their own work the parts are the expensive part. but i think youll enjoy a new jetta.

[Baron58]

i also have the check engine light come on all the time (it seems to happen when i go to or from higher altititudes (i live in tx (600ft) and go to NM mountains (9000ft)) and for some reason every time i make that trip the light comes on. its no trouble they just 'reset' the system (something i am trying to figure out how to do, maybe if i just disconnect the battery that will work)


10% chance your O2 sensor(s) is/are bad. 90% chance the MAF (mass airflow sensor) is bad. That'll be $300.

You can't reset it yourself unless you buy the VAG-COM software/cable and a Windows computer (portable) to run it on so that you can read the trouble codes and reset the OBD-II computer. Even then, if you don't know what you're doing with the OBD-II computer, you could hose up your engine management and have the dealer charge you for a new ECU.

Disconnecting the battery will NOT work. DTCs (diagnostic trouble codes) are set in non-volatile memory, and the only one that self-clears is the one for leaving the gas cap off (replace the gas cap and drive for about 45minutes and it'll reset), otherwise, you're SOL.

Thinking about pulling the CEL bulb? Ha - it'll illuminate another light instead. Fix the root of the problem, it's the only way.

I've hated this GTI since about 2 months after I got it. And it's a German-built one, not Mexican or Brasilian. The worst insult I could say to any German responsible for this POS, should I ever meet one, is that I've owned *French* cars that were better-built! (I love the French, but if you've ever had a Peugeot or Citroen, you know what I mean.)

Anyone who owns a VW, or is thinking about it, should spend some qualiy time reading the relevant forums www.vwvortex.com

[RBMaraman]

I can't believe all of the VW bashing I keep hearing.

First, let me say that I bought a 2001 VW Passat in July, which I absolutely love. I did TONS of research before I even test drove the car. I read books, magazines, websites; I talked to people who owned them; I checked CarFax reports on random models I saw on car lots. I knew exactly what I was going to be purchasing: an EXCELLENT car.

Second, NOT ALL VW's ARE CRAP!!

The Passat is a consumer reports excellent pick and has an excellent rating by MANY other sources, and the Touareg was picked as best SUV by MANY different sources.

The Jetta, Beetle, and Golf are absolute crap. Why?

The Passat, Phaeton, Touareg are COMPLETELY manufactured in Germany, where the quality of parts are excellent. The Jetta, Beetle, and Golf are manufactured in Mexico, where the parts are not so great.

Also, VW's have been rated as having the best customer service of any automotive dealer. The number of cars each dealership receives is based on the number of good and bad compaints VW receives from customers. So, if you take your car in for service, and are treated like crap, if you report it to VW, sanctions are levied against that dealer.

[maxvamp]

VW has been working on many of the problems on the JETTA / BUG, etc. since 2000. By the time I got my TDI in 2002, the only problem left was the windows. They have since come out with a brass kit that replaced to nylon clips that would break and drop your glass into the door.

This is the only real problem I have had on this car, and I now have 50k on it.

I want to re-enforce that these ( built after 2002 ) are now pretty good cars.... but!!!

VW has had many more problems with the gas versions of thier engines than the diesel versions. The TDIs have been an excellent engine, while the gas 1.8 has had some very odd problems, probably due to QA for the price class ( my guess ).

I have had no electrical problems other than a burned out bulb in the console.

So, if you take your car in for service, and are treated like crap, if you report it to VW, sanctions are levied against that dealer.

Many VW dealers SUCK!!!!! The one I was forced to go to due to location usually ended up breaking twice as much as they fixed. I don't recall ever going there just once. When the service manager told me that his people were incompetent, I was in shock, and knew I was in trouble. What is worse, he was trying to bribe me with free oil changes if I would tell VW that I wanted to give them a five rating ( best ). I expressed a concern that if they couldn't do a simple repair, why would I allow them to touch the engine oil??

From what I have heard, this is not a unique problem. I now take my car to an independant mechanic.

In short... a fairly excellent car when you take the bad mechanics out of the picture.

Max.

[cr2sh]

The Passat is a consumer reports excellent pick and has an excellent rating by MANY other sources, and the Touareg was picked as best SUV by MANY different sources.

I've spent all morning online doing research... while consumer reports does call the passat a top choice they predict its reliability to be the worst of all models. I'd love to be able to chalk up the problems as a germany versus brazil/mexico issue, call the matter done and go order a GLS TDI PASSAT but... I'm just not sure yet. That's why I'm here asking opinions...

:)

I want to re-enforce that these ( built after 2002 ) are now pretty good cars.... but!!!

VW has had many more problems with the gas versions of thier engines than the diesel versions. The TDIs have been an excellent engine, while the gas 1.8 has had some very odd problems, probably due to QA for the price class ( my guess ).

This is exactly what I was wanting to hear.. but its just one voice in a sea of "do not buy vw." It makes sense and largely its what I've seen. I know two folks who've had TDi's for a long time now and they both seem very happy, I stop and ask people I see (often at chipotle) and they recommend the cars.... who knows.

[jxyama]

i have a 2001 golf TDI. i bought it for the great gas milage and it hasn't disappointed me thus far. i've gotten up to 52 mpgs on one trip. the average highway is around 48 and the worst i've ever gotten was 35 or so when i drove in cold michigan winter for commuting for 10 min. to work.

i only have 20000+ miles on it and purchased an optional 4-year extended warranty after the initial 2 years ran out. that was about $1,000 but now i know all i need to pay for my car are oil changes and maintenances. (btw, diesel engines also have the additional benefit of requiring oil changes less often.) by the time warranty runs out, the car will be 6 years old - i'd be willing to take a chance on possibly letting it go at that point.

i haven't had any major problems - there are some cosmetic problems i've noticed, but not major. i knew VW isn't the most reliable... but dunno, something about the styling. i just love driving my car - it may become a money pit, but i do get a great deal of satisfaction owning/driving it. kind of hard to put a price on something like that...

[RBMaraman]

I've spent all morning online doing research... while consumer reports does call the passat a top choice they predict its reliability to be the worst of all models. I'd love to be able to chalk up the problems as a germany versus brazil/mexico issue, call the matter done and go order a GLS TDI PASSAT but... I'm just not sure yet. That's why I'm here asking opinions...

I never pay attention to charts like the one you attached. I look in the back of the magazine at the charts that show specs for each year of the cars. If you look at that one, you'll see that as each year progresses, each model ranks much better than the previous one.

I picked my car because I liked the way it drove, I liked the facts I saw, and I liked the price and mileage (I got a 2001 Passat with only 16,000 miles, some little old lady had it :D). I'm a small person (21 years old and only 5' 4" tall, small for a man) and I felt extremly comfortable in the Passat.

If you like the Passat, go out and order one (It will take several months to receive it. I was thinking about ordering a Jetta TDI and they told me they could get it to me in 3 months). Buy a car because YOU like it.

[balticgreen]

Hi all. I have been reading various forum topics here for over a year since I bought my 12"PB, but I'm just now registering to talk about my car. Funny how that happens.

Anyway, I have a 2002 Jetta and wanted to share. I bought it new in 2001 and it currently has about 35,000 miles on it. My "laundry list" if you will is really not so bad compared to others. And as someone already said, 2002+ Jettas are much better than then 1999-2001s.

At three weeks and 1300 miles, my fuel pump died, leaving me stranded in a parking lot. It was actually at my school's campus (I lived on campus) so it could have been much worse. VW Roadside flatbedded it to the nearest dealer and fixed it, of course under warranty. I was irritated at the time, but as soon as I got my car back, I was happy again.

Just this summer, I experienced the dreaded window regulator failure. It was not raining as it usually seems to be for most people and the dealer fixed it the next day, also under warranty. Again, irritated but once I got my car back, everything was good.

The only things that happened were very minor and included a broken center console latch, fixed under warranty, a shorted coolant temperature sensor, fixed under warranty, and the VW logo fell off one of my wheels (well actually only the plastic cap in the middle of the alloy wheel) and I haven't replaced that yet because it just happened.

There was one other thing, but it was completely my fault. The car had to be "rebooted" (don't you love it?) after I did something really awful while working on an aftermarket stereo. Still don't know what I did but the car went into some kind of "limp home" mode and needed a pitstop. That was relatively cheap and the only thing I've paid for out of my own pocket.

I bought this car while in college and intended to keep it through school and figured I'd probably want something else after I graduated. I have now graduated but I still have my Jetta because I love it. I looked around and there just wasn't anything else I wanted more than what I already have.

The new Jetta (the fifth generation) should be arriving in North America in the Spring and I may change my mind then and get one. But for now, I'm keeping my car. VW knows there are problems with the current Jettas/Golfs/GTIs and made that a priority for the new generation, so it should be a much better car in the reliability dept. If you are considering a Jetta and are concerned, I'd suggest waiting until Spring and buying the new one. :)

[Chip NoVaMac]

I went over tonight and looked at some Jettas. I wanted to dicuss my concerns with a saleman and see what he thought. Bascially, I wanted to see if he'd dismiss it as nonsense (or even in the past tense would be acceptable) but he didn't. He broke it down as basically, the check engine light does seem to come on a lot... but never a really serious issue. "Just a lot of stupid stuff" is how he put it. Now, that wasn't exactly the strong endorsement I was looking for... so I started asking more questions.

"How is it possible that consumer reports can rate the Passat as a top choice and yet recommend avoiding the Jetta?" His answer was simply that the Passat is made in Germany... the Jetta else where.... I asked about the Passat TDI and fuel mileage (almost identical to the Jetta TDI) and got a brochure on that Passat.

You hear good and bad things about the Jetta but jeez... even the dealer seemed to conclude it was a possibility. I want a car I can drive for the next 10years, that isn't going to give me any problems and that is fuel efficient as hell. The jetta is a great looking car... I want one... but all these flags scare the hell out of me.

The new Accord is so ugly.. I won't consider it.
I hate the idea of buying a Mazda anything...
Subaru is a possibility... but not a strong one.

Passat is the pack leader for now... keep thinking about it I suppose. other ideas are very welcome...

I owned the '99 New Beetle. Nothing but problems. That little check engine light problem, $500 for a new sensor at the time. ABS system failed. Airbag sensor failed (not in a crash, but the warning/check light).

VW did extend my bumper to bumper to 60K because of the problems. Unfortunately none of the problems were repeatable under the Virginia Lemon Law. Had a failure at 58K of the computer diagnostic system. Sold it right after the repair for a Honda 2001 Civic. Too harsh of a ride, so I went to the Subaru Baja Sport. Couldn't be happier.

I will probably never own anything other than Toyota, Honda, or Subaru ever again.

[Baron58]

I did something really awful while working on an aftermarket stereo. Still don't know what I did but the car went into some kind of "limp home" mode and needed a pitstop.


You applied voltage to the 'K-wire', which is part of the stereo wiring harness and is actually a data line to the ECU.


If you take a VW with non-factory audio equipment to the dealer and they have to hook it up to the VAG machine (their diagnostic computer), they'll rip open the dash and physically unhook the wiring harness to make sure that any mis-wiring won't fry their expensive equipment. Any time I've taken mine in, I've put a big placard over the stereo that says "K-WIRE IS SAFE", and let the service manager know to not mess with it.

[Baron58]

I can't believe all of the VW bashing I keep hearing.

I think you can see that people here are posting their experiences. Nobody is just saying OMG!!! VW are teh suxxors!!!11!!1

First, let me say that I bought a 2001 VW Passat in July, which I absolutely love. I did TONS of research before I even test drove the car. I read books, magazines, websites; I talked to people who owned them; I checked CarFax reports on random models I saw on car lots. I knew exactly what I was going to be purchasing: an EXCELLENT car.

Good. Enjoy it.

The Passat, Phaeton, Touareg are COMPLETELY manufactured in Germany, where the quality of parts are excellent. The Jetta, Beetle, and Golf are manufactured in Mexico, where the parts are not so great.

Hmm. Your 'research' is incorrect. This tells where the plants are located and which models are built where in Europe. Some Passats come from Germany, others from Slovakia, etc. <http://www.vw-personal.de/content/www/en/arbeiten/standorte/standorte_im_konzern/europa.html>

Golfs are built in several places in Europe, including Wolfsburg, Germany (like mine, see the litany of problems above) and Bratislava, Slovakia. They are also built in Brazil.

Jettas and Beetles for the US market come from Mexico.

The PARTS for the vehicles, however, don't vary much from one source to the next. You'll find European-built vehicles with minor parts (e.g. an ashtray) made in Mexico, and Mexican/Brazilian vehicles have the engines, transmissions, and most electronics and interior components made in Europe. Go to a dealer and look at the 'parts content' sticker on various new models. it's not a matter of inferior parts on Mexican models, it's the design and assembly quality of the parts overall regardless of source. I wanted a German GTI for exactly that reason myself, and I was proven wrong.



Also, VW's have been rated as having the best customer service of any automotive dealer. The number of cars each dealership receives is based on the number of good and bad compaints VW receives from customers. So, if you take your car in for service, and are treated like crap, if you report it to VW, sanctions are levied against that dealer.

ROFL. I'd like to see the 'best customer service' rating. Hey, let's see a show of hands for those who've had one or more dealers bribe them to get '5' ratings on the survey form? Want a ride to work? New wiper blades? Actually get your car in the bay in a timely manner rather than sweating in the lounge? Sure! Just give us all 'fives' on the survey..... And this in three different states, mind you. If the ratings are based on the VW surveys, they're useless.

[maxvamp]

One thing that made me a bit more comfortable while I waited for my Jetta was to ask people whenever I saw a TDI what they thought of their car. Usually, this was at the gas station.

You will find only two types of people with the Jetta TDIs... Those who love the car and would buy another in a heartbeat, and those who will never buy another VW anything ever again. There doesn't seem to be much in between the spectrum, and you have seen some of that here.

It is better to ask locally, since the TDIs are a bit more sensitive to environmental conditions, and in my experience the quality of fuel varies greatly from place to place. I am fortunate enough not only to have good quality fuel readily available, but also Bio-Diesel and at a somewhat comparable price.

If you are interested, goto Blue Sun's web site (http://www.gobluesun.com/) . If you want nearly free fuel for your TDI, go to greasecar.com (http://www.greasecar.com/)

Max.

[RBMaraman]

I think you can see that people here are posting their experiences. Nobody is just saying OMG!!! VW are teh suxxors!!!11!!1

OK, dude. Calm down.

Good. Enjoy it.

Thanks, I will. :)

Hmm. Your 'research' is incorrect. This tells where the plants are located and which models are built where in Europe. Some Passats come from Germany, others from Slovakia, etc. <http://www.vw-personal.de/content/www/en/arbeiten/standorte/standorte_im_konzern/europa.html>

Golfs are built in several places in Europe, including Wolfsburg, Germany (like mine, see the litany of problems above) and Bratislava, Slovakia. They are also built in Brazil.

Jettas and Beetles for the US market come from Mexico.

The PARTS for the vehicles, however, don't vary much from one source to the next. You'll find European-built vehicles with minor parts (e.g. an ashtray) made in Mexico, and Mexican/Brazilian vehicles have the engines, transmissions, and most electronics and interior components made in Europe. Go to a dealer and look at the 'parts content' sticker on various new models. it's not a matter of inferior parts on Mexican models, it's the design and assembly quality of the parts overall regardless of source. I wanted a German GTI for exactly that reason myself, and I was proven wrong.

I didn't research where they were made. The dealer told me, and it's obvious from your 'research' that he was wrong. Apologizes for my incorrect information.

ROFL. I'd like to see the 'best customer service' rating. Hey, let's see a show of hands for those who've had one or more dealers bribe them to get '5' ratings on the survey form? Want a ride to work? New wiper blades? Actually get your car in the bay in a timely manner rather than sweating in the lounge? Sure! Just give us all 'fives' on the survey..... And this in three different states, mind you. If the ratings are based on the VW surveys, they're useless.

I haven't had any experience with VW service first hand, but in the Louisville, KY area I've only heard good things. I know 2 people with Jetta's, 2 people with Beetles, and another person with a Passat, and whenever they take their car in for an oil change the dealer washes, waxes, and vacumes the interior for no charge, and they didn't even ask them too. (No bribery here, only honest business). They also fill up the washer fluid for free, and they check the air pressure in your tires. It's just something they do to show their customers they care. I guess you've never experienced that generosity from a VW dealer? It's a shame you don't have a dealer so nice in your neck of the woods.

I apologize for my incorrect information, but the manual for my Passat explains that my car was completely manufactured in Germany. I should not have assumed that it was the same for all Passats.

[Chip NoVaMac]

ROFL. I'd like to see the 'best customer service' rating. Hey, let's see a show of hands for those who've had one or more dealers bribe them to get '5' ratings on the survey form? Want a ride to work? New wiper blades? Actually get your car in the bay in a timely manner rather than sweating in the lounge? Sure! Just give us all 'fives' on the survey..... And this in three different states, mind you. If the ratings are based on the VW surveys, they're useless.

I will say that the VW dealer that I went to was A-1. And if they gave me the same deal on the Subaru Baja as my "hometown" Subaru dealer, I would have bought from them again.

I was always given a free loaner (both under the original 24K and the factory authorized extension to 60K). Any warranty service got a free car wash and tire shine. They were the ones that went to bat with VWoA to get an extended warranty for me.

[bousozoku]

Most VW dealers' service departments have been very good to me. The one I currently visit in central Floriduh has been especially helpful during the window regulator debacle. The manager even told me that the area representative knew of the problem and that the corporation itself was trying to decide whether it was real or not.

When I contacted the toll-free help line, the person was upset that the service manager had informed me of such private information and that there was no problem with the power windows in general. When I said that there were 3 others in the waiting room with the same issue, she wanted to speak to the service manager. She called him later and warned him not to be forthcoming. It's not wonder this is the largest dealer in the area--they're willing to do what's right.

Maybe next time, VW will test cars closer to the equator. I don't think much of their help line, but I've done healthcare software support and got similar lectures about how the truth hurts "everyone".

If there is a reason that I wouldn't choose another VW, it's the lack of consideration the corporation has for customers, not the product.

[UWF404]

We have a 2001 Jetta VR6 which has had it's fair share of issues. The car now has 37K miles and the windows on the front have dropped into the door. Was repaired under warranty. The engine light does come on a lot and we have had problems with the Coil.

Also, the spark plug wires went bad! Weird thing to go at 30K miles but it did! The worst thing about owning the Jetta is dealing with Volkswagen. Customer service sucks. On the website earlier this year they posted about a recall on the coil. The language on the website made it clear what vehicle range was included. My car was in that range and also experienced the same symptoms exactly. But VW would not cover the repair! All customer service would say was "Your vin is not part of the recall according to our computer" I asked about the copy on the VW website but that didn't change a thing.

I had to email the VP of VW North America and some PR dudes in VW Germany before I got help. Now that our lease is up we are wanting to buy a new car. We have looked at and totally dig the new Outback L.L Bean Wagon from Subaru. The car is awesome! AWD and a fast V6 engine that cranks to 60PMH in 5.9. The best part is Subaru has a great reputation for quality. VW IMHO blows!

[Mike Teezie]

I have a 2001 Jetta VR6.

I couldn't be happier with this car. Not a single problem, mechanical or otherwise. Much to my delight, the black leather has held up beautifully. As good as the leather in my 01' BMW 328i.

I would buy another again in a heartbeat.

[rdowns]

Conclusive. Stay away from VW. I hear that most European cars are going down in terms of reliability and such. Its probably because nobody really cares. People buy the car because it's European. That's reason enough, even though it may break down often.

I agree here too based on the data we have. We rate cars on a scale of 0-9 with zero being the most reliable and therefore, least expensive to cover. Most European cars (Audi, BMW, VW, Saab) were rated between 4-6 two years ago. Today the vast majority are 6-8, a considerable increase in cost to cover.

FWIW, we stopped covering all Land Rovers 2 years ago. It was not uncommon to charge $3,500-$5,000 to cover and pay out $8,000-$12,000 in repair costs over 3-4 years.

[continuum]

I only read a few of the posts at the beginning and random ones in the middle of this thread... But I'd have to agree with them as I once was a VW owner - STAY AWAY!

I bought a brand new Golf in 2000 or '01, can't remember exactly because I only owned it for 9 months. What a joke. Between the car itself having problems and the idiots at the dealership, what a waste of my time. It all started when they forgot to include the interest rate in the paperwork and I signed the dotted line and drove the car off the lot before they realized it. They had a fire in their showroom so all computer systems were down and the paperwork was done the old fashioned way. So, I bought a car at 0% financing when they weren't even offering that. Problems as simple as a blown speaker. It "tested" ok with their aparatus to test current, etc. But not until I had the receptionist come out and listen to it and back me that it sounded like hell did they replace it.

Electrical problems were normal. Although this persisted, I traded the car in on a Nissan Altima (my 3rd Nissan - on my fourth now-Pathfinder) because I couldn't deal with the rejects in the service department. I would take the car in to have something fixed and they would break something else. Actual response to a broken console piece - "Our tech guy wasn't sure how to remove the console so he started prying on it with a screwdriver." WHAT?!!?! Lie to me! Don't tell me you hired incapable people let alone not train them.

Sorry...really pissed me off those people. But hey, it was a blast to drive and I think I even experienced Fahrvergnugen (sp?) once or twice! Yippy!

[rdowns]

I can't believe all of the VW bashing I keep hearing.

First, let me say that I bought a 2001 VW Passat in July, which I absolutely love. I did TONS of research before I even test drove the car. I read books, magazines, websites; I talked to people who owned them; I checked CarFax reports on random models I saw on car lots. I knew exactly what I was going to be purchasing: an EXCELLENT car.

Second, NOT ALL VW's ARE CRAP!!

The Passat is a consumer reports excellent pick and has an excellent rating by MANY other sources, and the Touareg was picked as best SUV by MANY different sources.

The Jetta, Beetle, and Golf are absolute crap. Why?

The Passat, Phaeton, Touareg are COMPLETELY manufactured in Germany, where the quality of parts are excellent. The Jetta, Beetle, and Golf are manufactured in Mexico, where the parts are not so great.

Also, VW's have been rated as having the best customer service of any automotive dealer. The number of cars each dealership receives is based on the number of good and bad compaints VW receives from customers. So, if you take your car in for service, and are treated like crap, if you report it to VW, sanctions are levied against that dealer.

I can understand people who have had bad experiences bashing VW. My comments are based on facts.

Carfax reports are iffy at best. As someone who sells (well, actually trades) data to them, you'd be surprised how much they miss.

Touareg best SUV. Give em a break, no data exists on its reliability yet. It does look nice and come very well equipped.

[AhmedFaisal]

Bought it certified pre-owned with 23k miles on it out of the door for 17k. I love the car and have so far not experienced any problems with. Its a 5 speed manual btw. (I HATE automatic!). Gas mileage is good, between 27-30 mpg depending on how much freeway and how much city driving I do. While I do plan on getting an R32 Jetta once I graduate I'd say for gas-economics and budget reasons the 1.8T is the better deal. Due it its 1.8l 4 cylinder engine it gives you a very good gas-mileage while the turbo-charger gives you a whopping 180HP to bring the car up to speed in no time. There is no noticable turbo-lag btw. which is a big plus in comparison to the 2 turbo-charged Hondas I have driven before. One thing I noticed is that this car runs significantly smoother on full synthetic oil. Once I hit 25k I got the stock oil exchanged for Mobil 1 5/30 and the improvement of handling was astonishing, the car accelerates much better, the engines appears to be less noisy and the shifting is smoother also. It helps a big deal also to get good gas. I fill up with either Chevron or Shell Supreme (91) gas which is about 30$ per tank-stop (in California mind you) and I can go between 350-400 miles on a tank.
Regards,

Ahmed

[RBMaraman]

I can understand people who have had bad experiences bashing VW. My comments are based on facts.

Carfax reports are iffy at best. As someone who sells (well, actually trades) data to them, you'd be surprised how much they miss.

Touareg best SUV. Give em a break, no data exists on its reliability yet. It does look nice and come very well equipped.

What do you mean by 'trades data?' Who do you work for?

The Touareg was rated best SUV by Motor Trend, based on looks and ride. I never mentioned reliability.

[bousozoku]

What do you mean by 'trades data?' Who do you work for?

The Touareg was rated best SUV by Motor Trend, based on looks and ride. I never mentioned reliability.

Motor Trend sells their awards to the highest bidder.

Trusting them is only slightly worse as trusting Consumers Union/Consumer Reports. If only a car were a toaster, they would be truly useful.

[RBMaraman]

Motor Trend sells their awards to the highest bidder.

Trusting them is only slightly worse as trusting Consumers Union/Consumer Reports. If only a car were a toaster, they would be truly useful.

Yeah, I know they sell their award to the highest bidder. I was just mentioning it because I think the Touareg is the best looking SUV out. Sadly, a lot of rankings in consumer reports are sold as well.

I could actually care less how a car ranks or what awards it has won. Looks and how a car drives are the two most important factors I consider when I'm looking at a car. You wouldn't believe how many idiots say "All cars drive the same." Each car has a personality, and that personality defines its ride. I only checked about reliability on my Passat because my dad happened to point out how he read that the Passat had the best rating out of any other VW.

[takao]

1.reaction when seeing the thread title:
"jetta ??? those more-rust-than-steel cars ? "
then after checking the american VW site i found out that the "Bora" is called 'jetta' in the US...actually i think it was renamed twice over here (guess why ? worst car they ever produced in wolfsburg)

2.if you want a VW skip the Bora,Polo and all non diesel and even then they are too expensive ..but perhaps you can look at the Passat
at the moment VW has serious issues with quality (just like BMW has problems with design and public image)

[balticgreen]

You applied voltage to the 'K-wire', which is part of the stereo wiring harness and is actually a data line to the ECU.


If you take a VW with non-factory audio equipment to the dealer and they have to hook it up to the VAG machine (their diagnostic computer), they'll rip open the dash and physically unhook the wiring harness to make sure that any mis-wiring won't fry their expensive equipment. Any time I've taken mine in, I've put a big placard over the stereo that says "K-WIRE IS SAFE", and let the service manager know to not mess with it.

Actually I'm familiar with the K-wire and mine is "safe." I had the stereo installed by friends at a local shop because I was concered about the K-wire. They took care of that and I have a note from them to any dealers saying that the K-wire is safe. My dealer has never questioned it.

The problem came when I installed the PAC SWI-X to regain the functionality of my steering wheel audio controls. Oh well, it works perfectly now! :D

[AhmedFaisal]

1.reaction when seeing the thread title:
"jetta ??? those more-rust-than-steel cars ? "
then after checking the american VW site i found out that the "Bora" is called 'jetta' in the US...actually i think it was renamed twice over here (guess why ? worst car they ever produced in wolfsburg)

2.if you want a VW skip the Bora,Polo and all non diesel and even then they are too expensive ..but perhaps you can look at the Passat
at the moment VW has serious issues with quality (just like BMW has problems with design and public image)

BMWs problem can be solved very easily - B angle M uss W eg. Meaning, all they have to do is fire that tasteless american burger-eating moron Chris Bangle, get the old designers and thus its classy teutonic design back. Right now, BMWs look like any other anonymous American car, like a Lexus for example. The horrible design of the Z4 is a perfect example. The old Z3 was a BMW from top to bottom. Take the BMW emblem off the Z4, NOBODY could identify it as a BMW. Its lost its BMW personality, same as the 7 series, the 5 series and god knows what they will do to the 3 series.
How they could hire Bangle given his crimes at his previous employers like Ford is still a mystery to me anyways.
Cheers,

Ahmed

[Apple //e]

Hmm. Your 'research' is incorrect. This tells where the plants are located and which models are built where in Europe. Some Passats come from Germany, others from Slovakia, etc. <http://www.vw-personal.de/content/www/en/arbeiten/standorte/standorte_im_konzern/europa.html>

Golfs are built in several places in Europe, including Wolfsburg, Germany (like mine, see the litany of problems above) and Bratislava, Slovakia. They are also built in Brazil.

Jettas and Beetles for the US market come from Mexico.

The PARTS for the vehicles, however, don't vary much from one source to the next. You'll find European-built vehicles with minor parts (e.g. an ashtray) made in Mexico, and Mexican/Brazilian vehicles have the engines, transmissions, and most electronics and interior components made in Europe. Go to a dealer and look at the 'parts content' sticker on various new models. it's not a matter of inferior parts on Mexican models, it's the design and assembly quality of the parts overall regardless of source. I wanted a German GTI for exactly that reason myself, and I was proven wrong.





ROFL. I'd like to see the 'best customer service' rating. Hey, let's see a show of hands for those who've had one or more dealers bribe them to get '5' ratings on the survey form? Want a ride to work? New wiper blades? Actually get your car in the bay in a timely manner rather than sweating in the lounge? Sure! Just give us all 'fives' on the survey..... And this in three different states, mind you. If the ratings are based on the VW surveys, they're useless.

yeah, parts are built to specs. and if the design is no good, the product is no good. many other cars are made in mexico and if theyre good you dont hear "theyre made in mexico"

anyways.....vws have such a high prestige here in mexico. i cant figure it out. jettas in particular. having lived in the us, i cant get rid of the "piece of fahrvernugen" (sp?) mentality.

japanese all the way. i have a gm truck but thats because theres few japanese trucks here (2). my car is a civic. no problems with either.

[blackfox]

To cr2sh (or whomever)...I guess it just comes down to priorities and some risk...

VW pretty much makes the only diesel models for N America. Assuming you acheive 45mpg with the VW TDI (average) vs 30mpg with another gas automobile, you will save somewhere around $500-700 dollars a year, assuming a gas cost of $2.50/g and 20,000 miles a year of driving. Over several years, those savings are quite considerable.

On the other hand, you may have to deal with build-quality problems which might range from annoying to infuriating. I would think that most problems/repairs would be covered under warranty, making the costs mainly in time and emotional wear-and-tear. Nevertheless, this is usually an issue that new car buyers understandably wish to avoid.

Perhaps the 2005 models have addressed some of these issues...for me, who drives often, I would be tempted to roll the dice for the savings in gas and for the styling...

[bousozoku]

Yeah, I know they sell their award to the highest bidder. I was just mentioning it because I think the Touareg is the best looking SUV out. Sadly, a lot of rankings in consumer reports are sold as well.

I could actually care less how a car ranks or what awards it has won. Looks and how a car drives are the two most important factors I consider when I'm looking at a car. You wouldn't believe how many idiots say "All cars drive the same." Each car has a personality, and that personality defines its ride. I only checked about reliability on my Passat because my dad happened to point out how he read that the Passat had the best rating out of any other VW.

I think the Touareg, and its brother the Porsche Cayenne, are pretty interesting. I'd be afraid to drive anything that expensive as an SUV. It might get dirty. :D

[wide]

Lexus will be releasing hybrid cars (I think in every line) soon. It's more expensive, but it's a Lexus.

[maxvamp]

Would you pick the VW over an american car?

Max.

[AhmedFaisal]

Would you pick the VW over an american car?

Max.

I'd pick a Jugo over an American car. Or a Lada, or a Skoda.
Cheers,

Ahmed

[shecky]

Would you pick the VW over an american car?

Max.

i would pick anything over an American car.

[rdowns]

What do you mean by 'trades data?' Who do you work for?

The Touareg was rated best SUV by Motor Trend, based on looks and ride. I never mentioned reliability.

I work for one of the largest national car warranty companies.

Carfax gets its data from a variety of sources but their sources are hardly comprehensive. A handful of states will provide motor vehicle data but privacy laws prohibit most from doing so. It is good data as you can see registrations and inspection data. Some will even report accidents.

About half of the warranty companies trade data to Carfax in exchange for Carfax reports. The manufacturer's do not. Some will report that the vehicle had a service contract issued, cancelled contracts are not reported. Some will also report each time a repair claim is filed. That data is valuable.

Carfax will also report public recall information from manufacturers but not TSBs (technical service bulletins) issued. Some vehicles can have scores of them.

As you can see, there are many holes in the Carfax vehicle history. My company runs thousands of reports every month. Way too many have little or no data on the vehicle. It is not uncommon to view a report of a 4 or 5 year old car with one or two entries. That being said, it's the best we got.

[pseudobrit]

i would pick anything over an American car.

Like the bus.

Anyway, there are 2 kinds of people when it comes to cars:

Car people
Transportation people

If you're a car person, you'll love working on your car and are competent/ingenious enough to get away with many of your own repairs/maintenence/adjustments. You'll love driving, and will likely pride yourself on your driving prowess.
You'll be happy with a TDI bought from a good dealership.

If you're a transportation person, you'll also love your car. But you'll love its gadgets or its colour or the way the automagic tranny shifts. You'll know how to gas it up. Perhaps you know how to check the oil and refill the washer fluid, but these things are major maintenence procedures for you.
You'll be happy with a Saturn.

*disclaimer - My vehicle recommendations are not mutually exclusive. Car people can be happy with Saturns and transportation people can be happy with TDIs. But it's more likely they won't.
* disclaimer - my stereotypes are stereotypes

[cr2sh]

I test drove an Acura RSX S-Type this morning, it felt good and I have faith in its reliability but I'm still looking around. I've been sufficiently scared at the prospect of buying a VW.. just too many bad things being said.

rdowns - if you were going to buy a car, based on your knowledge, what would it be? Acura a safe bet?

Thanks.

[mowogg]

I have two VWs; a 1998 Golf and my wife's 2002 Jetta Wagon. In spite of the Jetta being built in Germany (not Mexico like the sedan) it has had a number of problems that the Golf has not.
We have had the very common window issue, the door latch break and the engine uses excessive oil. The interior, while looking very nice, is not put together very well and rattles and has pock marks on the driver's door inside handle.
I like the Golf and it is paid for, but the Jetta will go back when the lease is up.
Glad we didn't buy that one.

[rdowns]

I test drove an Acura RSX S-Type this morning, it felt good and I have faith in its reliability but I'm still looking around. I've been sufficiently scared at the prospect of buying a VW.. just too many bad things being said.

rdowns - if you were going to buy a car, based on your knowledge, what would it be? Acura a safe bet?

Thanks.

Funny you should ask. My last 3 cars (CL 2.2, CL 3.0 and TL Type S) have been Acuras. When my lease is up in December, I'm getting another Acura TL. The RSX Type S is a hot car (they gave me one as a loaner)- go for it. The non Type S is a bit underpowered IMO.

Can't go wrong with a Honda or Acura product. Hondas are the car of choice for most of the claims advisors in my company.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Hondas are the car of choice for most of the claims advisors in my company.

Hopefully it doesn't include the current model CRV's, you know that nasty fire problem. Faulty oil filter installation, yeah right.....

[rdowns]

Hopefully it doesn't include the current model CRV's, you know that nasty fire problem. Faulty oil filter installation, yeah right.....

Who would drive that ugly thing anyway? I said cars, not SUVs.

[cr2sh]

Funny you should ask. My last 3 cars (CL 2.2, CL 3.0 and TL Type S) have been Acuras. When my lease is up in December, I'm getting another Acura TL. The RSX Type S is a hot car (they gave me one as a loaner)- go for it. The non Type S is a bit underpowered IMO.

Can't go wrong with a Honda or Acura product. Hondas are the car of choice for most of the claims advisors in my company.

Thanks for the advice. I dug it a lot, the new 2005's are just arriving and are really nice (210hp!). I intend on driving a TSX before making a final decision... the 2004's are getting discounted pretty well at this point so I may be able to pick up a rather nice '04 TSX for a bit more than a fully loaded '05 RSX s-type.

I'll keep you guys up to date, a co-worker of mine graduated with a fellow who now runs a service department for VW, I've got his number and am going to give him a call tomorrow. I'm very interested to see what he really thinks about the problems... hopefully I'll get the real low down dirt from the horsesmouth.

[cr2sh]

Yesterday morning I went and test drove a Tsx. The manual 6-speed of course, about halfway down the first hill I told Kelly "this si the car I'm buying."

It's the larger size than what I'd been looking at(RSX/Jetta), but that's more of a future protection for me.. it gets the gas mileage that I was wanting.. and its attractive as all get out. Made by Honda and hopefully as reliable as anything I could have purchased. All that with a 200hp 4cylinder engine that is fun to drive... I just needed to find a color and decide on an interior.

We went over later that day to the other Acura dealership in cinci and they just happened to have the manual in the carbon gray with the black leather that I kinda labeled "dream car." We talked numbers and got to about where I wanted it... and then walked away.

I came home last night and mulled it over. Really what bugged me most was my Mom telling me that she thought it'd be a mistake to spend "that much money on any car." After talking to everyone else I consider close and most agreed, it wasn't an unreasonable price for a new car, it would be reliable and they didn't think I was crazy... we went back down today.

Sitting outside my apartment now, about 15 parking spaces away from everyone else's cars is my new Acura TSX. Woot.

Why the **** am I sitting here typing this? I'm going for a drive. Thanks everyone for your advice, rdowns especially, for the encouragement and sound advice... I'll get pics tonight . :)

[nospleen]

Yesterday morning I went and test drove a Tsx. The manual 6-speed of course, about halfway down the first hill I told Kelly "this si the car I'm buying."

It's the larger size than what I'd been looking at(RSX/Jetta), but that's more of a future protection for me.. it gets the gas mileage that I was wanting.. and its attractive as all get out. Made by Honda and hopefully as reliable as anything I could have purchased. All that with a 200hp 4cylinder engine that is fun to drive... I just needed to find a color and decide on an interior.

We went over later that day to the other Acura dealership in cinci and they just happened to have the manual in the carbon gray with the black leather that I kinda labeled "dream car." We talked numbers and got to about where I wanted it... and then walked away.

I came home last night and mulled it over. Really what bugged me most was my Mom telling me that she thought it'd be a mistake to spend "that much money on any car." After talking to everyone else I consider close and most agreed, it wasn't an unreasonable price for a new car, it would be reliable and they didn't think I was crazy... we went back down today.

Sitting outside my apartment now, about 15 parking spaces away from everyone else's cars is my new Acura TSX. Woot.

Why the **** am I sitting here typing this? I'm going for a drive. Thanks everyone for your advice, rdowns especially, for the encouragement and sound advice... I'll get pics tonight . :)

Very nice choice!! I am the Service Manager at an Acura dealer in San Antonio. I can tell you from experience, out of all of the newest Acuras, the TSX is the one we have the fewest problems with. Enjoy it, they are great cars!!

[cr2sh]

Very nice choice!! I am the Service Manager at an Acura dealer in San Antonio. I can tell you from experience, out of all of the newest Acuras, the TSX is the one we have the fewest problems with. Enjoy it, they are great cars!!

I'm very glad to hear that. A bit blurry but here it is... :)

We'll see how well I sleep tonight.

[rdowns]

Yesterday morning I went and test drove a Tsx. The manual 6-speed of course, about halfway down the first hill I told Kelly "this si the car I'm buying."

It's the larger size than what I'd been looking at(RSX/Jetta), but that's more of a future protection for me.. it gets the gas mileage that I was wanting.. and its attractive as all get out. Made by Honda and hopefully as reliable as anything I could have purchased. All that with a 200hp 4cylinder engine that is fun to drive... I just needed to find a color and decide on an interior.

We went over later that day to the other Acura dealership in cinci and they just happened to have the manual in the carbon gray with the black leather that I kinda labeled "dream car." We talked numbers and got to about where I wanted it... and then walked away.

I came home last night and mulled it over. Really what bugged me most was my Mom telling me that she thought it'd be a mistake to spend "that much money on any car." After talking to everyone else I consider close and most agreed, it wasn't an unreasonable price for a new car, it would be reliable and they didn't think I was crazy... we went back down today.

Sitting outside my apartment now, about 15 parking spaces away from everyone else's cars is my new Acura TSX. Woot.

Why the **** am I sitting here typing this? I'm going for a drive. Thanks everyone for your advice, rdowns especially, for the encouragement and sound advice... I'll get pics tonight . :)

Congrats! Excellent choice.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Congrats, you'll be very happy with your new ride I am sure.

[Abstract]

If I could buy any car (within reason) that would be it, but in red. :)

Congrats, you lucky mofo you. Hope its trouble free. Personally, I don't think VWs have anything on the TSX. The RSX has a very boring style for a 2-seater sporty car, but the TSX looks mint.

I'm requesting another pic of the car, maybe the interior. You may as well show your new toy off! ;)

[D*I*S_Frontman]

I have owned 1978 and 1980 Rabbit diesels and currently own a '99 Jetta TDI. None of them were "problem-free," but the engines were absolutely rock-solid. Drove both of the Rabbits to the bone-yard still running--one had a bad starter and the other a bad tranny, if I recall correctly. 220,000 ('80) and 275,000 ('78) miles on them at junk time. The bodies were completely gone, but the engines were still perfect. Heck, by driving at 50 mph on a trip from Green Bay WI to St Cloud MN I got 60+ mpg out of that rust-bucket '78 Rabbit (it was so ricketty that I dared not go faster!)

My '99 Jetta had the mass air sensor replaced, the cup holder broke, and in the upper Midwest diesel additive is a MUST when driving in winter. All that being said, I love the car. I regularly measure my mileage, and in summer with the A/C cranked while doing 70 mph on the highway I consistenly get 52-54 mpg. All the repairs I have done still do not add up to what I have saved on fuel costs with the TDI, and the longevity of diesel engines means I will be able to drive this baby into the dust. Our family drives about 15,000 miles a year and we easily average 45 mpg overall. Versus a gas engine averaging 30 mpg @ $1.85/gal, we save over $300/year in fuel costs. That adds up.

If you are the type who uses a car as a luxury transport and demand operational perfection, then this is not your car. If you are cheap and hate the idea of buying a new vehicle every five years, the VW TDI is your baby. She'll need work on little niggling things from time to time, but she should easily last you a decade or more. Seeing that new cars are probably the single worst financial investment conceived by man (40% depreciation the second you drive it off of the lot, and downhill thereafter), getting a car that will last a long time and sip fuel at a reasonable rate along the way is not a bad plan.

[cr2sh]

If you are the type who uses a car as a luxury transport and demand operational perfection, then this is not your car. If you are cheap and hate the idea of buying a new vehicle every five years, the VW TDI is your baby. She'll need work on little niggling things from time to time, but she should easily last you a decade or more. Seeing that new cars are probably the single worst financial investment conceived by man (40% depreciation the second you drive it off of the lot, and downhill thereafter), getting a car that will last a long time and sip fuel at a reasonable rate along the way is not a bad plan.

I was listening to CarTalk on the drive down to the dealership on Saturday morning. Some guy called in and asked a question regarding a problem he was having with his VW, after joking around a bit one of the guys put it this way: "I'm sure most of our listeners get already.. but we don't think much of VW's." I tend to trust those guys and there wasn't anything positive coming from them about the reliability.

I'm certain I could have purchased a 2005 Jetta and been happy... maybe for the entire life of the car, but I also know I'm REALLY anal about stuff. It would bug the jesus out of me if I had the car a year and the check engine light came on... I just don't want to bother with that ********.

More photos to come later tonight. :)

[Chip NoVaMac]

I have owned 1978 and 1980 Rabbit diesels and currently own a '99 Jetta TDI.

I know that I would have loved to have kept my '99 Beetle, and would have loved getting another Golf/Jetta/Beetle class vehicle. VW's are just plain fun to drive IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Subaru Baja. It just doesn't have the "fun" drivability that VW's have. Too bad VW hasn't been able to get it act together since 1999, other than to give a 48K warranty.

[Macpoops]

I was seriously Considering a Jetta GLS both the standard 2L and the TDI but after doing my research and talking to some people i was put off by the poor rep they have been receiving. Since then i've looked elsewhere and have to say i'm all but sold on the new Scion tC. Sure it's a new model for 05 but it's made by Toyota and the drivetrain is strait out of a Toyota Camry, and frankly they have some of the highest reliablity around.... Not to mention the thing has a ton of stuff standard, 2 sunroofs, reclining rear seat, all for a price just over 17 for the auto (less for the manual). Plenty of leg room in the back too. There are also a ton of dealer options for the car that are worth looking at. Anyway you slice it it's alot of car for the price you pay. Thousands less then the Accord Coupe, Acura RSX or Toyota Celica and comparable in just about every other way.

It's worth taking a look at. It's not immensely small like the xA or Ugly like the xB

[cr2sh]

It's worth taking a look at. It's not immensely small like the xA or Ugly like the xB

I test drove the Tc.

The dealer handed me the keys and suggested a route.. about half a mile down the road I turned the radio down to figure out what the clanging noise was... it was the sunroof glass rattling. I found the ride rough and a little hard... the plastic in the interior felt (and looked) cheap... the sun visors, the glove compartment.. it all lacked a feel of quality.

Also, the seats are bolted to the frame of the car in a very visible way. You open the driver's door and you can actually see the bolts.. right there... on the floor, not hidden or anything.

I liked the looks of the car, the ammenities were fair for the price and I'm sure its a reliable vehicle. That said, I'm cautious about buying a car that I don't get to drive first and I just wasn't impressed with it.

The engine felt underpowered and the car felt in no way agile... kinda boxy and awkward.

Definately, a good looking car... but I wasn't sold on it.

[Chip NoVaMac]

I test drove the Tc.

The dealer handed me the keys and suggested a route.. about half a mile down the road <snip>

I know it depends on the dealer, but I prefer taking roads that I travel on a regular basis. In fact my Subaru dealer allowed me to take the car that I was interested in out for an afternoon run to the doggy day care center that I was kenneling my Chewey for the weekend, about a 30 mile round trip. It sold me on the Baja as a good choice.

I hate dealerships that force you on a 5 mile circuit that means nothing to the way you drive day to day.

Sounds like the Tc was a winner for you. Can't wait to see the photos.