ibook or centrino

[nikeballa09]

I will be purchasing a new laptop soon because college is gonna start on sept 23. i would just like some buying advice. i have been reading threads on macrumors for some time now and i encountered one about the centrino processors being a lot better then the G4. this week comp usa has a very good deal on a toshiba with a bundle including scanner, printer, wireless router, and some other nice things for $1049. I am really thinking about buying this pc laptop, but i also wouldnt mind an ibook. The only thing is that with the i book i will be paying more money for a machine with older and more out dated technology. so i would like some advice on why i should get the ibook over the centrino based laptop.

Thank you very much!

[JFreak]

get the ibook and don't believe the centrino hype. all intel has "innovated" is put a wireless chipset into the motherboard, the technology which apple has by the way used since 1998 and is called the airport. sure, pentium-M might be faster number cruncher, but does that matter to you that much? you can get more real-world work done with the ibook, which at least to me matters a lot more.

[Brother Michael]

The iBook with an edu discount will cost about the same. It might be a little more because of the bluetooth upgrade, Airport Extreme (which is better than the default centrino wi-fi with I think is only 802.11b), and a RAM upgrade.

In the end though you will not be sorry for spending the money on the iBook. I absolutely love my iBook and its like 3+ years old.

Mike

[Zaty]

The Pentium M is faster than a G4, not doubt about that. But that's not what's really important. Some manufacturers use pretty fast CPUs but they also use cheap and crappy components to cut costs. So that fact, that a notebook features a Pentium M doesn't say much about its performance. Apple on the other hand usually uses components that work well together. Finally, OS X is so much better (i.e. more secure) than XP. Therefore I say get the iBook, you won't regeret your decision.

[groovebuster]

Actually I was in almost the same position recently... well, I have an iBook already, but there was a project that I couldn't use it for. Reason? The software I had to use only worked on a Windows machine. It didn't even run under Virtual PC! No joke! So I had to buy a Windows Notebook. It turned out to be a Fujitsu-Siemens S6120.

Know what? I love it! It's fast, has long battery life and is reliable. And it only weighs 1.6 kgs

Of course it "only" runs Windows XP and I really curse once in a while about the stupid design of the OS. BUT... I can't hear the fairy-tales anymore that you are so much more productive with MacOS X. 95% of the time you are working within applications! If you are using standard applications, you don't notice any difference, because they are siamese twins on both platforms.

AND I can run software now, that is only available for Windows and doesn't run at all or too slow with Virtual PC.

I still like the Mac better, because the OS is just designed better. But from a professional point of view... if you are using standard applications almost all of the time for business, there isn't a big difference. Just go with what fits your needs better. In my case it was a software issue that made me buy my Notebook.

groovebuster

[groovebuster]

get the ibook and don't believe the centrino hype. all intel has "innovated" is put a wireless chipset into the motherboard,

Not true. The WLAN is just one piece of the centrino technology. It's mostly about energy conservation. That's why almost any centrino notbeook beats the **** out of any Apple iBook/PowerBook regarding battery life.

the technology which apple has by the way used since 1998 and is called the airport.

Your point is?

sure, pentium-M might be faster number cruncher, but does that matter to you that much? you can get more real-world work done with the ibook, which at least to me matters a lot more.

More work done? ... Not true from my experience. The OS feels(!) nicer, but that's all. A faster machine is a faster machine. If that's what you need, Apple is way behind these days.

groovebuster

[svenr]

My answer can be summed up in one word:

OS X

Honestly though, the difference is not so much in raw tech specs but in HOW you can work with your computer. The Toshiba may or may nor have better specs, I don't know the details. But it can't run OS X. And I would prefer my virus-free, spyware-free ... trouble-free OS X experience anytime over any version of Windows. UNIX-based, yet simple to use, extremely well integrated with your hardware and other software because both come from the same firm. Intuitive, friendly. OS X.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/

(Dude, I think I should've become an ad copy writer! :))

Oh, there's one more thing: The iBook just looks better. I'm writing this on an iBook that I also used in university. Probably no one important (i.e. only geeks) will ever ask about your Centrino laptop, but I got a bit of attention for my white iBook at times. It can't hurt if that attention comes from a beautiful girl ... ;) (yes, it has happened.)

[JFreak]

point being that apple has used wireless for years, and now intel advertises centrino as if they would have invented wifi. and yes, the operating system will come in the way every now and then, and more often in windows (i have to use pc at work) than in osx. even if i did the same work - creating a presentation for example - i can get it done faster in osx than in windows, plus i seem to be more creative in my work when in osx, and a part of that mystery is the fact that the os doesn't come in the way.

apple hardware also keeps its value better than pc hardware. go to ebay and check what kind of prices you can get from 2yr old computers!

[dotnina]

::snip:: creating a presentation for example - i can get it done faster in osx than in windows, plus i seem to be more creative in my work when in osx, and a part of that mystery is the fact that the os doesn't come in the way.::snip::

I'm the same way, and I haven't been able to figure out why.

I agree: the OS doesn't come in the way. You can leave a bunch of applications open and not even think about it. Everything's very multi-tasking-friendly.

[kettle]

....More work done? ... Not true from my experience. The OS feels(!) nicer, but that's all. A faster machine is a faster machine. If that's what you need, Apple is way behind these days.

groovebuster

Wow, you might even manage to wind someone up at this rate.

I really hate it when I can out type a processor, :rolleyes: in truth there are so many other real life occurrences that make any computer task take longer than it should. Most of them are genuine and don't sound like Mac hating (i saw a mac in a store once)(and it made me feel stupid, so I stood next to a dell and spied the mac from a distance) rubbish.

I would like to know these applications that take so much power, or the Mac machines you have experience of.

I just don't believe any person is really capable of taking advantage of scientifically measured performance differences, real life just doesn't work like that.

Are you rendering a HD animated movie on your Fujitsu-Siemens S6120?

here are three reasons for using a Windows PC over any other Personal Computer.

1. you want to run really high FPS on the latest PC only games.
2. Going with what you know/ avoiding what you don't want to know/ you were given a (new) PC for free.
3. you have an invested interest in the Windows based PC being perceived as the only choice in consumer level computer technology.

Usable computer performance is basically a measure of how a machine can be utillised to organise a persons workflow in a time efficient manner.

Use anything you like to achieve this...

I use both platforms and I know I am a nicer person when I use my Mac all day, I really genuinely get angry when I have to play the Windows game and people do know when I've been playing the windows game. However, on my Mac, I don't waste energy fighting and put more energy into my workflow.

My mac is my friend and we like to make each other happy. :)
;)

[JFreak]

i also like "the little things" of osx very much, and they show (at least to me) that everything has bee carefully thought out and not just implemented for the sake of new features.

for example, the mail app: a beautiful way of showing new mail with a red dot to the app icon (actually the count of new messages, but having the dock small as possible makes it a red dot) to notify the user of unread email - instead of the windows way: a variety of annoying ways to show a popup window, or to flash the taskbar. i really like the apple way as i can concentrate on my work without abrupt interruptions and whenever i have time to actually read the email, i will instantly see if there is or isn't new mail.

i think it's the little things that make a whole. windows has a lot of annoying little things and osx has a lot of beautiful little things. which one to choose? ;)

[JFreak]

kettle,
there is actually a fourth valid reason also: you have invested money to windows software and the licenses don't allow cross-platform use.

[svenr]

Actually I was in almost the same position recently... well, I have an iBook already, but there was a project that I couldn't use it for. Reason? The software I had to use only worked on a Windows machine. It didn't even run under Virtual PC!
That may of course have to do with the version of Windows you have installed on VirtualPC.

I also wanna add my experience in this regard:
I went to business school. Probably the most homogeneous windows environment you can imagine. Computer services even discouraged students from getting Macs. Of course, I was unfazed.

In one of my marketing classes, we had to run a simulation software, Markstrat 3. It required a lot of analyzing, forecasting, etc. to be done on the side, usually in financial models we built in Excel. I met my learning team several hours per week to "play" the next round. We would usually go to a study room where they have PCs installed, but also have VGA cables so you can hook up your own laptop to the big screens.

Markstrat runs only on Windows and it is programmed so that it always takes up the entire screen. You can not resize the window, only send it to the Start bar. It didn't take long and we figured that Markstrat actually runs better on my iBook than on the real PCs there. Why? I can run Windows in Virtual PC inside a normal MacOS window any size I want. So we could get around the forced full-screen mode and have our Excel spreadsheet and Markstrat side by side, which made copying and pasting data back and forth much easier.

Needless to say, Excel ran just fine as a native OS X app on my iBook which connected without problems with the study room screens. That was of course one of those precious moments when you have all your Windows buddies asking you to finally set up your iBook so we can start working! :D

I guess the experience with Windows-only apps varies, you'll have to look into what specifically is needed for your major. I'm personally very happy with VirtualPC, it has never let me down and gives me the peace of mind of having two systems in one box should I really need it. (Which rarely ever happens; Markstrat was the only case in two years Windows dominated b-school).

[AmigoMac]

Get the iBook, Get the iBook...

Centrino could be good, but I do not trust a company with unbelievable TV ads ...

( two people transmitting from somewhere in the mountains with a webcam a very high-resolution) (With a blue background a la Mac OS X) ...

(a man surfing in Internet from the Everest... ha!)

you know, if they want people to believe that Internet is everywhere no matter where you boot you laptop ... :rolleyes: is insane!

-Statements pretty off topic- but still you don't want to miss the OS X experience, do you? ;) Come on, iTunes is for windows too but patching the OS, scanning for Viruses, Taking care of the firewall every second, spyware ... that's not fun! ...

Only, if my Simulation program would run in Mac OS X, I'd be the happiest man in the world ... :D

did I recommend you to get the iBook? :)

[Bigheadache]

Wow, you might even manage to wind someone up at this rate.

I really hate it when I can out type a processor, :rolleyes: in truth there are so many other real life occurrences that make any computer task take longer than it should. Most of them are genuine and don't sound like Mac hating (i saw a mac in a store once)(and it made me feel stupid, so I stood next to a dell and spied the mac from a distance) rubbish.

I would like to know these applications that take so much power, or the Mac machines you have experience of.

I just don't believe any person is really capable of taking advantage of scientifically measured performance differences, real life just doesn't work like that.

Are you rendering a HD animated movie on your Fujitsu-Siemens S6120?

here are three reasons for using a Windows PC over any other Personal Computer.

1. you want to run really high FPS on the latest PC only games.
2. Going with what you know/ avoiding what you don't want to know/ you were given a (new) PC for free.
3. you have an invested interest in the Windows based PC being perceived as the only choice in consumer level computer technology.

Usable computer performance is basically a measure of how a machine can be utillised to organise a persons workflow in a time efficient manner.

Use anything you like to achieve this...

I use both platforms and I know I am a nicer person when I use my Mac all day, I really genuinely get angry when I have to play the Windows game and people do know when I've been playing the windows game. However, on my Mac, I don't waste energy fighting and put more energy into my workflow.

My mac is my friend and we like to make each other happy. :)
;)

:confused:
if a machine can make you feel that angry I kindly suggest you get off your bum, and get out and enjoy life a bit more instead of spending all day in front of a computer

[Mord]

for as school laptop get a freaking ibook, with an ibook you dont have to think about anti virus stuff, and that centrino laptop probably has integrated graphics which plain suck.

also check out the maximum ram and the advertised battery life.

[groovebuster]

That may of course have to do with the version of Windows you have installed on VirtualPC.

Nope...

groovebuster

[AmigoMac]

and that centrino laptop probably has integrated graphics which plain suck.

also check out the maximum ram and the advertised battery life.

This is the way, they give old stuff out... because you have to be computer savvy or you get that cr*p

[cubist]

One other thing to consider: Look at prices of used machines. Three years from now, the iBook will still be worth almost half what you paid for it, but the Centrino notebook will be worth almost nothing.

FTM, have you considered buying a used machine?

[CmdrLaForge]

Get the iBook ! :D Seriously - what answer do you expect on MacRumors ? ;)

To be honest - it really depends on what you want to do with your machine. If you have to run a lot Windows only apps then you go better with the PC. Or if you want some serious FPS. Otherwise I would definitly get the iBook.

Cheers

[vga4life]

Don't buy an ibook. Buy a refurbished 12" powerbook for $1349.

The powerbook is much faster, has a video card supported by CoreImage (in the next version of Mac OS X), and has 802.11g (aka Airport or Wi-fi) and bluetooth built in. Once you add airport to an ibook you're approaching that price anyhow.

The ibook should not be considered.

-vga4life

[wPod]

Not true. The WLAN is just one piece of the centrino technology. It's mostly about energy conservation. That's why almost any centrino notbeook beats the **** out of any Apple iBook/PowerBook regarding battery life.


?!!?!? are you joking?! or just on crack? yes, true centrino is designed for energy conservation and lasts the longest of any wintel laptop, but any centrino machine ive ever seen lasts no more than two hours max while an iBook will easily last 4 hours or more. there really is no reason to get a wintel laptop unless you are required to use some windows only software that wont even run in virtual PC . . . or unless you are into some sort of kinky pain enjoyment thing.

then to agree with everyone else getting a windows machine will only invite viruses, adware and frustration. save yourself some time, the iBooks are much better for any college envirnment (unless all you want to do is play games then get a windows desktop)

[kettle]

:confused:
if a machine can make you feel that angry I kindly suggest you get off your bum, and get out and enjoy life a bit more instead of spending all day in front of a computer

I'll let you off with being ignorant as to how people in the real world earn the money to go out and enjoy life. Trust me, I use windoze because I have to, my Mac is what gets me through the hell of using Microsoft (we don't need to develop) Shhiteware on a mongrel system assembled in some random computer part hell.

So to rebuke your suggestion, I kindly request you pay me five hundred quid a week to embark on the quest of Bigheadache wisdom.

Buy the windoze laptop and proove us Mac lovers wrong, but don't come moaning when it goes tits up on you. :eek:

[ginner]

I, admittedly, have fairly limited experience using Apple computers and thus the newness of the operating system somewhat degrades my experience, though I was a long time reader of these forums and believed my next computer would be a mac. I'm also from the UK so here Apple computers come with a much greater price premium to consider. They sure look nice and the users on here never have anything critical to say about them.

However, I honestly believe the Centrino is the better option for you. I sit here using my Sony Centrino based note book with a fantastic 13" widescreen resolution, g standard wireless internet access through my router and a ridiculously fast processor allowing me to multitask away happily with no cables connected to my 1.7kg laptop, in the sunny garden, for in excess of 5 hours. I'm yet to have a crash (even application) and my computer has not been turned off for three weeks.

If you really want mac only software, such as OSX or iLife choose a mac, if you're happy with the windows software you've accumulated and will not incur you additional costs get the Centrino. The vast majority of programs you'll need on your course will be available free from your department, but not for a mac (at least that's my experience).

I've not had a virus on any computer I've used in over 5 years, I take my laptop to anywhere on campus and have easy internet access. The horror stories of windows life are very much exaggerated.

Or do your really consider the 'virus free' lifestyle worth all the extra money and effort?

[Abstract]

Actually I was in almost the same position recently... well, I have an iBook already, but there was a project that I couldn't use it for. Reason? The software I had to use only worked on a Windows machine. It didn't even run under Virtual PC! No joke! So I had to buy a Windows Notebook. It turned out to be a Fujitsu-Siemens S6120.

Know what? I love it! It's fast, has long battery life and is reliable. And it only weighs 1.6 kgs

Of course it "only" runs Windows XP and I really curse once in a while about the stupid design of the OS. BUT... I can't hear the fairy-tales anymore that you are so much more productive with MacOS X. 95% of the time you are working within applications! If you are using standard applications, you don't notice any difference, because they are siamese twins on both platforms.

AND I can run software now, that is only available for Windows and doesn't run at all or too slow with Virtual PC.

I still like the Mac better, because the OS is just designed better. But from a professional point of view... if you are using standard applications almost all of the time for business, there isn't a big difference. Just go with what fits your needs better. In my case it was a software issue that made me buy my Notebook.

groovebuster

At that price, I'd get the Toshiba. They make great laptops, admittedly. If its a fast computer that does everything you want, and you don't mind WinXP, then this is definitely for you.

[panda]

hi there nikebolla09,

i'm sure you are getting lots of good ideas, judging by the feedback.

here's something more to consider......

apple is a totally integrated package and the experience is wonderful.

when you buy a mac, you are buying much more than a computer. you are buying a rich, multi-faceted environment that goes way beyond 'just' the hardware.

at one level it is excellent hardware that works seemlessly with its own stunning operating system and software, all designed for each other.

at another level it is the best support, providing technical assistance for both the hardware and software, all in ONE place! the advantage of this is definately apple's best kept secret. any question regarding any aspect of the 'package', is addressed in ONE place, by one person who understands how it all works and all fits together. i cannot overstate the importance of this integrated package.

stunning!

at another level, it is continuous free upgrades and developments, in an environment that just continues to get better and better.

at another level, it is more than a tool, it is a way of approaching life, a la ilife.

the ibook is rock-solid, a total joy to use and just so fun to take around the place.

no question in my mind go for it!!!!

:)

[dieselg4]

oK, I admit i ahven't gone trolling through the store's website, but what Toshiba are we talking about here? I'd be easier to do a direct comparison.

[Timelessblur]

Another good question is what do you need the computer to do. Each side has it pluses and minuses. There is a fair amont of stuff that lets face it Macs just suck at due to lack of the software. take it a lot people never will face that problem but it still is a fair question.

What do you need this computer do to in more detail and what do you need it to do? That helps you choose the best plateform to go with 2.

[dieselg4]

Ok, I saw a Toshiba on CompUSA's website for 1049, with the "Laptop Esssntials" Bundle (a plethora of mail-in rebates - remember that you have to front the cash for that, they're free in a month or two when they mail your checks back)

The Toshiba seems to be ok, though its big for having a resolution of only 1024x768. It also has shared video memory, which sucks for 3d gaming, if you're into that kind of thing. If you want a PC laptop for gaming, you should really get one with dedicated video memory. If its like some others, you can do freaky things like dial up or down your alotted video memory, but whatever you alot is not available for other uses. (you laptop would only really have 224 MB Ram).

The Pentium M 1.5 will most likely be faster than the G4 in the iBook. By how much is anybody's guess, prob not alot, but it will be.

If you're a design/arch/graphics student and you're school has pretty new hardware, anything intense like 3D modeling, rendering, etc, will be better handled by something in the lab than any $1000 laptop, and the programs typically cost a fortune (AutoCAd, FOrm Z, Maya, Alias, all come to mind)

Again, depedns on what you're using it for.

[nikeballa09]

sorry i havent replied sooner, i didnt expect to get this much feedback so fast. macrumors is a really good site and that would be one reason for the switch to macs. but anyways i an going to be a business major in college so i will be doing a lot of word processing and spreadsheet stuff, as well as photo editing stuff and lots of photoshop. i will also be online a lot and listening to music and little things like that. here is the link to the toshiba at compusa..... http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=313047&pfp=ldaysale the only difference is that instore u get the bundle and a 60 gig hd, and ram is upgradeable to 2 gigs. recently my friend purchased an ibook and we have been talking about then for awhile. he said that it is very slow, he says apps lag when they load. he is gonna get more ram soon and he hopes that it helps. But he also said that its not worth making the switch just for the os. he did it because he liked the 12 in screen and batter life, but the toshiba gets almost as long of life with a bigger screen. so i still dont know what to do, i will go to compusa on friday most likely and check it out and the ibook and compare them.

Once again thanks for the feedback!

[dsharits]

iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X iBook G4 with OS X

enough said?

Seriously, make a wise investment and get the iBook. You can do so much more with it, and you won't have to deal with Windows. TRUST ME, you do not want the Centrino over the iBook! And that crap about outdated technology- the only outdated technology involved here is the Microsoft Windows OS and all of its quirks. If Bill Gates wants to do something right, he will scrap nearly everything he has built up on XP, and he will start over fresh with Longhorn (which, when (if) it is released, will not run on the Centrino). However, the iBook will continue to run the latest OS from Apple, including Tiger, which incorporates all of the promised technology of Longhorn, and then some. Buy the iBook. You won't be disappointed.

http://www.macvspc.info/
http://www.xvsxp.com/

Daniel

[dieselg4]

he says apps lag when they load. he is gonna get more ram soon and he hopes that it helps. But he also said that its not worth making the switch just for the os. he did it because he liked the 12 in screen and batter life, but the toshiba gets almost as long of life with a bigger screen.

That's funny, I think MS Office lags when its loaded n ANY computer! j/k

Sounds like you won't be taxing this system much. I think it comes down to personal preference. Too bad the Apple Store (online) is out of Refurb. 1Gz 15" Alum Powerbooks!

On the battery side, I've yet to see ANY laptop get its stated battery life, be it a Mac or a PC.

[SillyKary]

... I sit here using my Sony Centrino based note book with a fantastic 13" widescreen resolution, g standard wireless internet access through my router and a ridiculously fast processor allowing me to multitask away happily with no cables connected to my 1.7kg laptop, in the sunny garden, for in excess of 5 hours. I'm yet to have a crash (even application) and my computer has not been turned off for three weeks.I can do all the the same things with my iBook.Or do your really consider the 'virus free' lifestyle worth all the extra money and effort?What is all the extra money? And extra effort?? Anyway, yes, I would really consider the 'virus free' lifestyle worth extra money ... if extra money was needed.

OK, you said you're looking at this offer (http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=313047&pfp=cat1). A few things come to mind:

Price
iBook ComboDrive $999 + AirPort card $71 = $1070
(Education prices)
So "more money" means $20.03. Wow, big deal. Often, local university stores may have even better deals. I actually got my AirPort card from the UPenn store for $59 and my iBook had a special deal with extra RAM and free AppleCare. That may just wipe out any difference altogether.

Also, keep in mind that for the CompUSA price, you need to deal with two different mail-in rebates. You will have to shell out $1250 up front.

Size and weight
(assuming you go for the 12" model)
iBook: 28.5 * 23.0 * 3.4 cm, 2.2 kg
Tosh: 33.8 * 27.4 * 4.0 cm, 3.1 kg
Compared to the iBook, the Toshiba is not only much larger, but also 41% heavier. Something to consider when you wanna take it to school often.

Battery
iBook: up to 6 hrs
Tosh: up to 3.9 hrs
Both are advertised numbers, both will be slightly lower in real life. But I do get around 5 hrs of note-taking out of my iBook. Think about that if you wanna go through a day of classes.


Screen
Although the Toshiba is larger, it does not give you more screen real estate. The resolution on both is exactly the same: 1024*768.
That means things on the Toshiba screen will look bigger and perhaps slightly blocky (85 dpi), things on the iBook screen will be smaller but crisper (106 dpi). And no, it's not too small.

Memory
Both come with 256 MB, but:

iBook: 32 MB dedicated video memory. Main RAM expandable to 1.25 GB.
Tosh: 32 MB shared video memory, meaning it eats into your 256 MB RAM leaving only 224 MB for Windows. And then the CompUSA page says: "The manufacturer states that both memory slots may be occupied." = End of the road!

Included software
The list for both is long, but the Toshiba doesn't seem to come with equivalents for iLife (iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, GarageBand), iSync, World Book 2004, Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 4, Deimos Rising, Sound Studio, Zinio Reader

You wanted reasons for the iBook, these are mine.

[Mord]

just remember to get at least 512MB of ram and dont buy it from apple get it 3rd party

[svenr]

... i an going to be a business major in college so i will be doing a lot of word processing and spreadsheet stuff, as well as photo editing stuff and lots of photoshop. i will also be online a lot and listening to music and little things like that.
As I said in my earlier post, I went through business school with my iBook. Took it to class every day and did all the same stuff you mentioned. Couldn't be happier.

You may wanna check out other Mac vendors too, they often also have bundle deals. Just don't fall for scams like the one in my sig.

he said that it is very slow, he says apps lag when they load. he is gonna get more ram soon and he hopes that it helps.It most certainly will. My iBook originally came with 128MB and yes, apps loaded slowly because it had to use so much virtual memory and shift things back and forth on the HD. Now, I have 640MB and for all the same things you mentioned my iBook is very zippy. And I have a 900MHz G3, your's would be even faster as it has faster memory and memory bus, a next-generation processor (compared to my G3) at faster clock speed and faster wireless networking. For "word processing and spreadsheet stuff", listening to music and b-school type photo editing you don't need more than even what I have.

[ginner]

What is all the extra money? And extra effort?? Anyway, yes, I would really consider the 'virus free' lifestyle worth extra money ... if extra money was needed.



Here I'm talking specifically about the cost of replacing software.

And I've already established I'm a UK consumer, to me Apples are far more expensive.

I see no benefits of the iBook over my Centrino, nor the Powerbook for that matter; it has a weak screen resolution on the small form factor models and a far slower processor in addition to being incompatible with my software I already own and specific applications I need which are not available for both platforms.

In the UK at least you can get a far better laptop running Windows for the same money and not have to fork out replacing all your programs.

[solvs]

You might be happy with a Centrino, but not that one. For $1300 (before rebates) you could buy a nice Mac.

My suggestion, for what you're doing, is an iBook. Education discount with the upgrade to 60 GB and an Airport card (plus 3 years AppleCare) is about $1320. Edu or refurb 12" PBook is just a little more. For $69 more, you could get an iPod. Free HP 5740 printer after rebate. Find some good RAM, 512 MB DDR2700 SO-DIMM for about $100. Wireless routers can be had for about $20 after rebate. Same thing with scanners. I didn't see any bundles with that Toshiba, nothing you can't buy separately at least. Either way you can buy an education version of MS Office for about $130 if AppleWorks or MS Works (which the Toshiba comes with) isn't good enough. Even cheaper at your school probably.

If you're going to buy a PC, at least get a better one than that. Don't get Intergrated Graphics, and you'll want better battery life. And if you're going to get a 15" screen, 1024x768 isn't going to look so good for those complaining about the 'Books screens. It is heavier than the Macs, and that will matter after awhile.

[jamdr]

That PC is a piece of junk. Like others have said, if you are for some reason unsatisfied with the iBook, at least don't get that laptop. It's huge and has integrated graphics. And a 15" screen with 1024x768?!? What the heck were they thinking? Even a 14" screen with that resolution would be pathetic, but a 15" one?

[kilpajr]

I think you should get the iBook. It will be lighter, smaller, have better battery life, and have better graphics. The ONLY downsides I see are the processor (you won't notice the difference) and possibly incompatible software. However, in a business program I don't think you will require any specialized software such as is required in engineering (which I am in). I got the academic version of Office at my bookstore for $70 so this will probably be the only extra software you will need.

On the other hand, look for other PC laptops. I don't think you are getting much for your money on the one you were considering. Look for one with a 14" display or even a 12" (less weight with the same resolution).

Whatever you do, upgrade the memory to at least 512MB. Let us know what you decide.

[kilpajr]

?!!?!? are you joking?! or just on crack? yes, true centrino is designed for energy conservation and lasts the longest of any wintel laptop, but any centrino machine ive ever seen lasts no more than two hours max while an iBook will easily last 4 hours or more. there really is no reason to get a wintel laptop unless you are required to use some windows only software that wont even run in virtual PC . . . or unless you are into some sort of kinky pain enjoyment thing.

then to agree with everyone else getting a windows machine will only invite viruses, adware and frustration. save yourself some time, the iBooks are much better for any college envirnment (unless all you want to do is play games then get a windows desktop)

I think you must be the one on crack. Look at the zdnet review of the Acer TravelMate 8000 and find the battery life comparison. This is a 15" laptop with a 9700 video card and it gets almost 5.5 hours in the battery test. None of the laptops in the zdnet comparison got below 208 minutes. And, this is an actual test, not just claims!

[solvs]

I think you must be the one on crack. Look at the zdnet review of the Acer TravelMate 8000 and find the battery life comparison. This is a 15" laptop with a 9700 video card and it gets almost 5.5 hours in the battery test. None of the laptops in the zdnet comparison got below 208 minutes. And, this is an actual test, not just claims!
For around $2000 and 7lbs, I would hope so. I'm hoping if Apple could come out with a G4 Laptop with a higher FSB and more L2 cache, it would erase the lead the PCs have in raw speed. Or at least make them more competitive with the top-end, lighter PC Laptops. I still think Apple compete's pretty well on the low end. You can probably (well definitely) find cheaper PCs, but the iBook is a really good value. Especially considering it's nearing the end of it's cycle.

The rest of your points above were pretty good though. :D

[kilpajr]

If Apple can come out with the dual-core G4 in the PB within a year I think they will blow the competition away. Think of the power savings you would get by shutting down one core while doing non-CPU intensive tasks. BTW solvs, I didn't mean to come across harshly, I definitely see the benefits of the Mac. That's why I bought one and haven't looked back since. ;)

[Seanb23]

On the battery side, I've yet to see ANY laptop get its stated battery life, be it a Mac or a PC.

A friend of mine had an M-chip based laptop custom built a while back for around 2000 USD. It runs more than twice as fast as my 17 inch 1ghz Pbook, and the battery lasts at least TWICE as long. No viruses or crashes whatsoever. If I could run OS X on something like that I would sell the pbook in an instant. As a matter of fact, if Apple does not get a modern proc and decent battery into it's laptop line in one year's time, I'm gonna have to re-switch. The competition is THAT far ahead of us right now...the gnarly cpu intensive audio aps I like to use are simply too much for the powerbooks in any quantity at once. Sorry, Apple, but you need to whip your laptop cpu and hardware suppliers into shape before you lose a lot of loyal customers. Not everyone can haul around heavy dual 2.5 G5 towers all day...some of us want and need MOBILE power, NOW. We would prefer to run it with OS X, but...

[whw5]

I say get the centrino. As much as I love Apple, you cant argue with a deal like that. Just protect the hell out of it. Remember, it only takes a unprotected PC 20 minutes to catch its first worm after being plugged into the internet.

[Rai]

I was in the same position last week. Trying to decide to buy a centrino laptop (HP), or apple ibook.

I needed a laptop, to work on research at our library in the hospital. There are tons of windows computers there, but there unusable (spyware, worms, basically crash on you on all time), its got really bad, our clinic computers are now getting affected aswell.

I walked into the apple store bought a 12 inch ibook, extra ram, wireless card, app plan, ms office. I was shocked at how much everything cost me grumble*, and was regretting buying it on way home, the hp laptop would of been cheaper and faster processor.

After a few days of using it, i love it, its well put together, i have no speed problems at all, have word/powerpoint/excel/safari open same time, no slow-down at all, acutally faster than switching on my 3.0ghz pc (probably all the junk i have on it). It took us 3 hours, to get our windows computers hooked up our wireless router, i opened my laptop, 1min latter contect to router.

At the same time, my laptop is for work only. I don't think the ibook with 30gig hardrive will be good for games or storing alot of movies and games.

[howard]

i read through most of the posts and i still have yet to see anyway give you the best advice.

go and try the ibook out yourself!! spend 30 mins at the store fooling around with it. or better yet, spend time with someone who has an ibook and who you can watch fool around with, since they know all the ins and outs of the os

in my opinion if someone says they have speed troubles with a g4 ibook its because it doesn't have enough ram, thats the bottom line. get as much ram as you can afford and your computer will treat you wonderfully. in the end for what you want to do speed hardly makes a difference, just usability. so use both and then decide


edit: i noticed your link has the toshiba at that price after a few mail in rebates. those can be a big hastle and i know a lot of people who sent there forms in and never got the money back.

[jkaz]

I, admittedly, have fairly limited experience using Apple computers and thus the newness of the operating system somewhat degrades my experience, though I was a long time reader of these forums and believed my next computer would be a mac. I'm also from the UK so here Apple computers come with a much greater price premium to consider. They sure look nice and the users on here never have anything critical to say about them.

However, I honestly believe the Centrino is the better option for you. I sit here using my Sony Centrino based note book with a fantastic 13" widescreen resolution, g standard wireless internet access through my router and a ridiculously fast processor allowing me to multitask away happily with no cables connected to my 1.7kg laptop, in the sunny garden, for in excess of 5 hours. I'm yet to have a crash (even application) and my computer has not been turned off for three weeks.

If you really want mac only software, such as OSX or iLife choose a mac, if you're happy with the windows software you've accumulated and will not incur you additional costs get the Centrino. The vast majority of programs you'll need on your course will be available free from your department, but not for a mac (at least that's my experience).

I've not had a virus on any computer I've used in over 5 years, I take my laptop to anywhere on campus and have easy internet access. The horror stories of windows life are very much exaggerated.

Or do your really consider the 'virus free' lifestyle worth all the extra money and effort?


i believe your 'success' with wintel to be the exception, not the rule.

further, the 'apple lifestyle' is superior to the alternatives. buying an apple is like buying a jaguar or bmw, anything else is just a pile of crap


***edit***

make that a hot and steamy pile of crap

[FuzzyBallz]

AMD A64 Mobile.

[c_waddington]

Not true. The WLAN is just one piece of the centrino technology. It's mostly about energy conservation. That's why almost any centrino notbeook beats the **** out of any Apple iBook/PowerBook regarding battery life.



Your point is?



More work done? ... Not true from my experience. The OS feels(!) nicer, but that's all. A faster machine is a faster machine. If that's what you need, Apple is way behind these days.

groovebuster

Yes, my brand new Dell Latitude D600 (complete with Centrino) lasts 2 hours. So how does that 'beat the ****' out of the 3.5 hours I get on my iBook G4?

Most of the claims about super long battery life rely on there being a second battery placed in the bay usually occupied by an optical-drive.

About the only thing that seems better to me, is that because of the in-built wireless they finally have the antenna built into the side of the screen, for better wireless reception. Not that Apple wasn't doing that a few years ago.

[BornAgainMac]

My Powerbook G4 spanks Centrinos. I am not sure about the iBook, it would be a close race. Probably would give you less problems, quieter, Tiger, and cool iApps in '05 compared to Centrio.

[joshua_msu]

Yes, my brand new Dell Latitude D600 (complete with Centrino) lasts 2 hours. So how does that 'beat the ****' out of the 3.5 hours I get on my iBook G4?

Most of the claims about super long battery life rely on there being a second battery placed in the bay usually occupied by an optical-drive.

About the only thing that seems better to me, is that because of the in-built wireless they finally have the antenna built into the side of the screen, for better wireless reception. Not that Apple wasn't doing that a few years ago.

cNet actual tests give the d600 203 minutes of battery, which is about 3.5 hours. I get about that with my 600m, but some of Sony's and IBM's centrinos actually test at 4.5 - 5 hours. Personally, I like my Powerbook too, and it prolly wins in a close race as my favorite of the two, but im the first to admit that my centrino 1.8 is quite a bit faster with 1GB of ram than my PB with 1.5 and 1GB of ram. The G4 really need a faster FSb and more cache if it is going to compete. Hopefully next revision, becuase I need an excuse to get the 15 in, as I have the 17 now.

To the orginal poster, youre going to get a biased anser here. Try em both out and decide what you like best. Good luck in your search.

[abhishekit]

I don't understand why its a hard choice between windows comp and Mac.
Its a hard choice whether to choose an iBook or a powerbook ...

but to choose a windows laptop or a Mac should not be such a difficult task. If you want to continue using windows, (reasons may be, you are using some windows specific software, or you want to play the latest games, or you need the raw speed), buy the centrino.
If you finally want to try OS X, and see why its so special, buy the Mac.

I don't think iBook's battery life would be less than centrino. I had a previous generation iBook, which used to give me around 5 hours of battery if I am only surfing and running itunes.

cheers

[nikeballa09]

Yes, my brand new Dell Latitude D600 (complete with Centrino) lasts 2 hours. So how does that 'beat the ****' out of the 3.5 hours I get on my iBook G4?

Most of the claims about super long battery life rely on there being a second battery placed in the bay usually occupied by an optical-drive.

About the only thing that seems better to me, is that because of the in-built wireless they finally have the antenna built into the side of the screen, for better wireless reception. Not that Apple wasn't doing that a few years ago.

My brother has a dell inspiron 1100 with a 2.0 ghz desktop celeron and it only runs 2 hours on the battery thats without using optical drive. i can guarentee that the toshiba i posted will get a lot longer life out of the battery with the centrino chip and it will be a lot better at multitasking. i am going to go to compusa tomorow and play around with both the toshiba and ibook to see what i like better. if i choose the ibook i will most likely order it soon.

Once again thanks for the advice.

p.s. i have been using windows for many years now and havent been infected with too many viruses (to be exact only one and that was when my bro just got his laptop) my other comp that ive had for 4 years never got infected and i never used antivirus or firewall and i have downloaded very many different things.

[groovebuster]

It is really funny, how one gets offended in here by some people just because for being objective.

I am a professional Mac user since 16 years, I even worked for Apple Germany for a while, so if somebody is a Mac fan, it is me! But to support my platform of choice also means that I have to accept when something else is better for a while.

I have to earn money with my computers, it is not just a hobby. Most of the Mac users in here seem to use their Mac only as a toy from what I read all the time. My platform of choice for business is what makes the money come rolling in. And unfortunately at the moment it is definately not the Mac when I am working with clients at their office and the projects I am involved in.

A friend of mine had an M-chip based laptop custom built a while back for around 2000 USD. It runs more than twice as fast as my 17 inch 1ghz Pbook, and the battery lasts at least TWICE as long. No viruses or crashes whatsoever. If I could run OS X on something like that I would sell the pbook in an instant. As a matter of fact, if Apple does not get a modern proc and decent battery into it's laptop line in one year's time, I'm gonna have to re-switch. The competition is THAT far ahead of us right now...the gnarly cpu intensive audio aps I like to use are simply too much for the powerbooks in any quantity at once. Sorry, Apple, but you need to whip your laptop cpu and hardware suppliers into shape before you lose a lot of loyal customers. Not everyone can haul around heavy dual 2.5 G5 towers all day...some of us want and need MOBILE power, NOW. We would prefer to run it with OS X, but...

That's what I am talking about! Plus the pro apps that don't run with Virtual PC or way to slow.

i believe your 'success' with wintel to be the exception, not the rule.

further, the 'apple lifestyle' is superior to the alternatives. buying an apple is like buying a jaguar or bmw, anything else is just a pile of crap


Funny, always when somebody says that he works with Windows XP succesfully, die-hard Mac users claim it is an exception because it doesn't fit into their world conception.

Let me tell you something. I am also owning and using Windows computers since a very long time, because I just have to (you need to work on the system the customer uses). And know what? In all these years I never had a virus on my machines. And I know many other users who are virus free on their Windows machines since years as well.

Actually it's good to be an exception I guess! ;)

And the iLife apps... I couldn't care less for my business. They are just toys. They don't have anything to so with the tasks I have to do in daily business(!).

Yes, my brand new Dell Latitude D600 (complete with Centrino) lasts 2 hours. So how does that 'beat the ****' out of the 3.5 hours I get on my iBook G4?

Most of the claims about super long battery life rely on there being a second battery placed in the bay usually occupied by an optical-drive.

About the only thing that seems better to me, is that because of the in-built wireless they finally have the antenna built into the side of the screen, for better wireless reception. Not that Apple wasn't doing that a few years ago.

Actually I don't believe you! Why did you buy a Dell, when your iBook is so great? I thought it is always the best choice? The centrinos have a battery life that is at least as good, most times it is better. I never saw a centrino with only 2.5h and in all the tests I never saw one. Mine is good for 4-5 hours in real world usage (including WLAN). My iBook also lasts only about 3.5 hours with Airport Extreme switched on. Even if they would have the same battery life, my centrino is still times faster...

Fujitsu-Siemens released a new Laptop (P7010) lately that is small, has a wide screen LCD, DVD burner and a battery life of around 7 hours. With a second battery you get 10 hours of battery life. So that's really the definition of being independent! You can work a whole day without a power plug being around! That's really cool! If I would have known, I would have waited with my order.

But at least somebody who is real about the battery life of his iBook. Airport really sucks a lot of energy and somebody who claims that he reaches 4.5 hours with Airport on is just a liar. I only get 3.5 hours max and that is only if I don't do anything than typing in a text editor (better not Word, because it always causes high CPU load with every letter you type) and checking my e-mail. And all the people I know (with an iBook) confirmed that.

groovebuster

[c_waddington]

Actually I don't believe you! Why did you buy a Dell, when your iBook is so great? I thought it is always the best choice? The centrinos have a battery life that is at least as good, most times it is better. I never saw a centrino with only 2.5h and in all the tests I never saw one. Mine is good for 4-5 hours in real world usage (including WLAN). My iBook also lasts only about 3.5 hours with Airport Extreme switched on. Even if they would have the same battery life, my centrino is still times faster...
groovebuster

I'm sorry that you don't believe me but in real world usage I typically get 2 hours out of the Dell and 3.5 out of the iBook. The battery life of the D600s we have in the office is the same - so this isn't a bad machine. And I'm not talking about doing anything excessive here: email, web browsing, office applications and maybe a developer tool. Wireless switched on - screen brightness switched to about half on both machines. Maxed out Ram on both machines. Honestly, I'm very disappointed by any noticeable performance increase or increase in battery life - as promised by the Centrino marketing.

Just because I posted to a mac forum don't assume that I'm biased in favor of the mac. I just want to share my real world experience concerning battery life. The Dell Latitude D600 is probably the best dell laptop I've used out of the 10 or so models I've had over the years (all purchased for me by work, to answer your question).

And yes my Dell is faster, but then again it cost $2800 where as the iBook cost $1100.

[dieselg4]

I'm sorry that you don't believe me but in real world usage I typically get 2 hours out of the Dell and 3.5 out of the iBook. The battery life of the D600s we have in the office is the same - so this isn't a bad machine. And I'm not talking about doing anything excessive here: email, web browsing, office applications and maybe a developer tool. Wireless switched on - screen brightness switched to about half on both machines. Maxed out Ram on both machines. Honestly, I'm very disappointed by any noticeable performance increase or increase in battery life - as promised by the Centrino marketing.

Just because I posted to a mac forum don't assume that I'm biased in favor of the mac. I just want to share my real world experience concerning battery life. The Dell Latitude D600 is probably the best dell laptop I've used out of the 10 or so models I've had over the years (all purchased for me by work, to answer your question).

And yes my Dell is faster, but then again it cost $2800 where as the iBook cost $1100.

The Dell does appear to have mediocre battery life. Check the C|net review:
http://reviews.cnet.com/Dell_Latitude_D600/4505-3121_7-30957345-2.html?tag=top
The battery life is listed as a "Bad". . . Centrino or not, sometimes you just can't overcome an undersized battery.

[c_waddington]

The Dell does appear to have mediocre battery life. Check the C|net review:
http://reviews.cnet.com/Dell_Latitude_D600/4505-3121_7-30957345-2.html?tag=top
The battery life is listed as a "Bad". . . Centrino or not, sometimes you just can't overcome an undersized battery.

To moderate, my previous post. It should be pointed out that Dell do provide an optional (extra cost) higher capacity battery which I'm sure does provide the 3.5 hours of battery life seen in other reviews.

You summed it up nicely - just because there's a sticker saying Centrino doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get better performance or battery life. Best to check out each laptop separately.

[eagle steve]

Windows XP Pro (not Home) is just as stable as MacOS X. There are far more application programs for Windows, far more games, far more peripherals, and far more organizations that cater for users of Windows PCs. In spite of all this, I think the iBook will serve you better and give you greater satisfaction than the Toshiba. It will also make you an object of interest and envy to your fellow students (I have recently received a new Powerbook, and my Windows-using colleagues are fascinated by it).

It's true that most users spend most of their time using applications programs rather than interacting with the operating system, and that these programs are often identical on both platforms. So, you wouldn't expect the differences between the operating systems to affect the quality of a user's experience to any great extent. However, this is not the case. For example, if (like me) you move frequently between different network environments (in my case these are home, office, lecture theatre, and library), which require different configurations and provide different network services, you will find MacOS X a much better bet than Windows XP. This is not because Windows XP cannot cope with such changes: it's because MacOS X turns changing configurations on the fly into a very simple task and Windows XP does not. There are numerous other situations in which MacOS X makes a user's life more straightforward than Windows XP (configuring and using printers or other peripherals, for instance), and very few (but some) where things are the other way around. How much does this add to my productivity? Difficult to say, but being able to work _with_ the operating system, rather than perpetually trying to wrestle it into submission (as I do with Windows XP) is a real bonus that I don't want to have to give up.

On processor speed, I think it's more important to ask yourself how each machine will age rather than which is the faster machine right now. As has been pointed out, it is a rare user who really stretches the processing capabilities of a computer (as opposed to the memory or hard disk capacity). However, every user has to deal with the effects of the passage of time. In my experience (approx 15 years of Mac use and nearly 20 years of PC use) Macs tend to remain usable for longer, not because they are more reliable (which they are), but because you can continue to use them for longer before you feel the need to replace them with something faster. I am still using a 500MHz G3 iMac at home and a Dual 500MHz G4 PowerMac at work, and getting very good service from them - and they are both running the very latest version of MacOS X and much other up-to-date software. The initial price premium (which was greater 4 years ago than it is now) has already been more than offset by the longevity of these machines, and I expect to continue getting useful work out of them for some time yet.

So, if it were me, I would go for the iBook. But then as a long time Mac user I would say that, wouldn't I? :)

[Mord]

Here I'm talking specifically about the cost of replacing software.

And I've already established I'm a UK consumer, to me Apples are far more expensive.

I see no benefits of the iBook over my Centrino, nor the Powerbook for that matter; it has a weak screen resolution on the small form factor models and a far slower processor in addition to being incompatible with my software I already own and specific applications I need which are not available for both platforms.

In the UK at least you can get a far better laptop running Windows for the same money and not have to fork out replacing all your programs.

i did not write that btw.

I live in the uk, and the fact that my ibook has endured nearly three years of school in a big comprehensive, and i only payed £550 for it, sure if you HAVE to get a pc because you have to use windows software get a pc, but for school an ibook cannot be beat.

and btw refer to macs as macs not "apples", it makes you look like a pc troll.

look at it objectively, what could a pentium m laptop do that an ibook cannot fro your uses, all i can think of is play games and that is not something you should be doing in school. for the ibook you have stability i know people who have lost coursework when there pc's have been messed up with viruses, sure you could say get tonnes of firewalls and virus scan programs but the fact that you have to bother is a big plus for the ibook, also with pc's they tend to bog down over time so you have to reinstall, i have only reinstalled 3 times once to go from jaguar to panther and once when i had to partition the HD so i backed up and wiped it clean and installed liux and OS X and the last time to install tiger.

oh and btw to quote my current ibooks battery life (600MHz radeon mobility 12") at the moment is 4:38 at 78% charge with medium brightness (and i dont have an airport card)

from 3 lessons of on and off useage it gets me down to about 80% which is my average day's use.

[c_waddington]

To moderate, my previous post. It should be pointed out that Dell do provide an optional (extra cost) higher capacity battery which I'm sure does provide the 3.5 hours of battery life seen in other reviews.

You summed it up nicely - just because there's a sticker saying Centrino doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get better performance or battery life. Best to check out each laptop separately.

Some further information on Dell's battery life compared to the iBook. I hope I'm not going on about this too much but it seems that many people would look at Dell when considering laptops so I'll continue. I just got another new Dell laptop today (don't ask but I just switched jobs) - this is my 4th Latitude D600 in a year. Out of interest I took the battery out of the new Dell and looked at the back of the battery at the specs, this one says 53mwH. I looked at the old battery and it said 48mH. Let's see how this one compares and see if it does gives the 3.5 hours of battery life that previous posters have said should be seen.

I believe the original poster asked if they should buy an iBook versus a Centrino. I hadn't stated my position before. I'll now offer a totally subjective opinion: I prefer using the iBook except when doing extensive Java programming. For two reasons: The dell has 1400*1050 resolutions so I can see more code, and Apple's version of Java is kind of slow.

I don't agree that in general use use the iBook is slower than a Centrino based laptop: Windows XP (that's what I'm using) is *slow* at switching between tasks even with lot's of memory, and the window management is slow compared to Quartz when you use a mac that is Quartz exteme enabled

So as I said, this is a personal review from somebody who has been using top of the range Dell laptops versus a 1Ghz G4 iBook.

[nikeballa09]

Sorry guys but i ended up getting the toshiba with centrino. The end decision ended up being my dads cause he bought it for me. he liked the bigger screen and value, plus the bundle. I really like it though, it loads quick, and multitasks like a dream compared to my bros dell with celeron. I probably dissapointed many people in getting this computer but it is still a very nice machine.

Once again, thank you guys very much for the feedback.

[Mord]

i hope it works out well for you, but don't blame me if i say i told you so in a few months time if it all go's to pot.

get crazy virus protection crap, like spybot, and dont even think of useing IE get firefox and delete all traces of IE, that will serve you well.

[nikeballa09]

Thanks for the firefox recomendation but i already downloaded it and am using it now. i like it a lot better then ie. i think im gonna keep ie around for awhile cause firefox has difficulties with some websites, but other then that i love it. i especially like the tab browsing. Once again sorry for not getting the ibook but the final decision was my dads.

[jkaz]

Thanks for the firefox recomendation but i already downloaded it and am using it now. i like it a lot better then ie. i think im gonna keep ie around for awhile cause firefox has difficulties with some websites, but other then that i love it. i especially like the tab browsing. Once again sorry for not getting the ibook but the final decision was my dads.


couldn't you have offered to pay for the cost difference?

there's ALWAYS a way imo :eek:

[svenr]

Dude, you could've gotten an iPod for $69 - sixtynine bucks!

That's iPod edu price plus this:
http://www.apple.com/education/cramandjam/

I call that a really sweet deal! Hell, even if you already have one, you could've sold it for a profit...

You need to get a better grip on your dad ...

[BornAgainMac]

Have your Dad watch one keynote with Mr. Jobs. coming up in January. The keynote will be available online and really showcase Mac technologies.
In the meantime, check out the last Developer's keynote.

Maybe he will get an iBook for himself.

[amyhre]

I had a budget of about $2500 for a computer for school and was looking at getting like a G4 iBook and a mid-line PC (HP, Sony, Gateway) because my department said that the programs wouldn't run on Mac so I'd need a PC. I've learned that Macs, even when they are supported by the software, usually aren't mentioned as an option. But I figured, the labs have the software I need, I can use them for a bit and see what other students in the department are using, talk to the teachers, get some real-life answers. What do you know, one of the professors in the department (I'm a computer major) came to the department orientation with a 17" PowerBook. First thing that hit me was "Holy ****, he's using a Mac and boy is it sweet!" I've had the opportunity to use a 17" before, but unfortunately, it wasn't mine. So I talked with him a bit. He was quite happy with it, of course and told me he was, at that moment, running MacOS X, Linux and Windows Pro through VPC. I asked if he was able to handle the programs he used in Windows at a reasonable speed. He told me that Windows XP was running at the equivalent of 900 MHz but that he was able to run his programs fine. Right now, I'm planning on ordering a used 15", that or spending a little more and getting an iPod with Cram and Jam. VPC will be a must later on. I can buy Windows XP Pro for $15 here and buy VPC separate. Right now, my Java programming class uses Eclipse, so VPC isn't an immediate need. If you really want something, in my case a Mac computer, there are ways to make it work out. Not to mention the fact that the network admin said that before the news gets word of a virus outbreak, the school is already infected, steered me to my choice of the Mac I want over a cheaper Mac and cheap PC.

[apple_iBoy]

He was quite happy with it, of course and told me he was, at that moment, running MacOS X, Linux and Windows Pro through VPC. I asked if he was able to handle the programs he used in Windows at a reasonable speed. He told me that Windows XP was running at the equivalent of 900 MHz but that he was able to run his programs fine.

The fact that he feels he's getting the equivalent of 900MHz of Windows XP Pro speed out of Virtual PC surprises the hell out of me. I wonder if, given the opportunity to try it yourself, you would have agreed with him. I run Windows 2000 in Virtual PC on my dual 1GHz Power Mac with a 1GB of RAM, and it feels like... MAYBE a 300 MHz Pentium II?

I've used a 900MHz Windows machine, and let me tell ya, Virtual PC ain't it.

[Mav451]

Have your Dad watch one keynote with Mr. Jobs. coming up in January. The keynote will be available online and really showcase Mac technologies.
In the meantime, check out the last Developer's keynote.

Maybe he will get an iBook for himself.

I dunno, I watch the keynotes for fun. Seriously, there are some great presentations, whatever your angle. I'm a PC enthusiast with an iBook, I still enjoy them.

[Applespider]

And I've already established I'm a UK consumer, to me Apples are far more expensive.

And a canny cost-conscious consumer at that being from Yorkshire :p

My mother just bought an iBook since she wanted a small, pretty basic laptop. I did look at some Centrino ones for her just to give her the comparison. The points about the video RAM above hold true for a lot of the dirtcheap notebooks over here too - as do the ports issue etc. And the cost wasn't much different - I got it to the price of Norton Internet Security for 2 years.

As for the cash being worth the 'no virus' - I'd say definitely. I rarely caught a virus with my Win98 PC but I still managed to collect spyware despite not using P2P, not clicking on obviously dubious links et al. Not having to clear that up was well worth the additional cash for me.

And that's not even going into the aesthetics of them (which admittedly was what swayed Mum in the end)

[patrick0brien]

-nikeballa09

I have a Centrino, and bought two G4 iBooks in the last year (not for me - I have a 15PB)). Get the iBook - it's a more solid machine.

Centrino is really not all that great, and you can only get the promised battery time out of it if you don't use it really. But one element of a Centrino, you can get really thin computers.

[nikeballa09]

Hi again. I have tested the battery life on my centrino based notebook. I use it for about 3.5 hours and still have 30% battery life. I use firefox, aim, and listen to online radio, and i still have 30% battery power after 3.5 hours. If you ask me , I think that is pretty good considering i have a 15 inch screen rather then 12 inch. As far a viruses, i have a pc with window me that is 4 years old and it never got a virus and i dont use any anti-virus software on it. My bro has had his dell laptop with win xp for a year and nothing has happened to it yet. I also dont have to worry about software compatability for school. I feel that if you buy a mac and have to buy virtual pc and install windows on it, then it kind of defeats the purpose of getting a mac.

P.S. I am very happy with my toshiba notebook!

[asphalt-proof]

You might be happy with a Centrino, but not that one. For $1300 (before rebates) you could buy a nice Mac.

My suggestion, for what you're doing, is an iBook. Education discount with the upgrade to 60 GB and an Airport card (plus 3 years AppleCare) is about $1320. Edu or refurb 12" PBook is just a little more. For $69 more, you could get an iPod. Free HP 5740 printer after rebate. Find some good RAM, 512 MB DDR2700 SO-DIMM for about $100. Wireless routers can be had for about $20 after rebate. Same thing with scanners. I didn't see any bundles with that Toshiba, nothing you can't buy separately at least. Either way you can buy an education version of MS Office for about $130 if AppleWorks or MS Works (which the Toshiba comes with) isn't good enough. Even cheaper at your school probably.

If you're going to buy a PC, at least get a better one than that. Don't get Intergrated Graphics, and you'll want better battery life. And if you're going to get a 15" screen, 1024x768 isn't going to look so good for those complaining about the 'Books screens. It is heavier than the Macs, and that will matter after awhile.

Gotta agree with you there. If its going to b school iwth you, an iBook will do fine. The ONLY caveat I have is if you EVER plan on gaming get a powerbook or the centrino. Heck, I think you would be better off with the refurb pb in general. Yes the PC hardware is going to be cheaper but the value of living virii-free in college cannot be over-estimated. Yes you can be free of pop-ups, virii etc. but its a lot of work. You have to take an active and consistent approach to the maintainance of your machine. I would love to have the PC gaming experience on my mac but I eill gladly trade it for being more secure. Besides, its hard to play when you 'puter is bogged down by spyware. ;)

I don't think that you will regret a 12"PB in the long run. Great portability, security, and ease of use. Perfect for college.